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This is what I call a gentleman's dream. This is going for the gold medal, even when you didn't qualify for the Olympics. This is being an absolute thoroughbred. Even when you're not a horse. Because this is the home of your 2000 and 30 Masters champion, I'm Kayla Presley and this is 51 strokes and.


Welcome to fifty one strokes, this is Carol Pressly, your host, coming to you from Florida. I'll be back in New York tomorrow and we actually have an exciting week for fifty one strokes because we have two shows this week. So we have we missed last week because we had a scheduling conflict, let's call it with our guest today, Buster Cher, who is in one of the lead guys in the trading card space and why scheduling conflicts. What actually happened was I scheduled the interview with him because I was wondering what is going on with his trading cards.


Why am I seeing all these tweets about trading cards being sold for millions of dollars? What is happening? And then I scheduled the interview with him and like it just a total just a jerk forgot about it. I just forgot. I just totally forgot. And so I'm just getting text from Avery being blown up. Others call me. I don't have my phone on me and I come back to it like an hour later. And so I miss the interview like a jerk.


So luckily, I was able to convince Buster that. I'm not a total jerk and that it was just a one time error and we were able to record again anyways, so that's but we couldn't do it. We couldn't do it in time for last week. So we have two shows this week. We have these trading cards. And then we also have later in the week, we'll do a kind of a bring you up to date on what's going on golf wise, which I know this is supposed to be a golf show.


But again, listen, Neff said this a number of times. We all continue to say. This show, if the wind blows us, will get blown. I'm seeing trading cards, I need to know what's going on and trading cards. I could find out independently, but in my mind, I'm like, if I'm interested or curious about what's happening, why people are spending all their money to buy a car of a little guy printed on a on a piece of stock paper, that people are also probably interested.


Why don't we just take this show there? What else are we going to do? So that's what's going on today, buster share. Started Hoopes Nation, which is huge, and he also now has started Cards Nation. He's the host of The Buster Show and today he's going to tell us what we need to know one on one about just what's happening. The trading card space right now, you've probably seen Gorvy, all these other guys tweeting about it, posting about it.


You might be like me and seeing some of the headlines today. Is this a crash course? It was really for me and it's for everyone was even happening. What are you doing? But before we get to that, Today show is presented by five hour golf, five iron. Is the number one indoor golf facility for anyone who wants to improve their game and have fun doing it, and that's exactly, exactly brand synergy with fifty one strokes, improve the game and have fun doing it.


I have been in Florida. For the last week on vacation. And I've been playing a lot of golf and I've been trying to hit the range some to hitting the range is really good. But I will say this, compared to going to five iron, where they have the trackman, they have the and the two camera angles, the slo mo camera angles with with immediate feedback, as soon as you take your swing, you're seeing two angles and slow mo of your swing.


It's really hard to go on the range and and No. Are you doing. Are you making this ring change that you're trying to make right now after we went down and saw Como? He gave me a few things that I'm to be working on. And when I go out to the range, I feel like I'm trying to do him, but without being able to just immediately see the hit a shot and see the slow mo from two angles. It's it's just really hard.


And I was even on the range this week. I was even trying to film myself. But you don't want to do every shot and that it just it just so easy. Firearm just makes it so easy to you hit a shot and then you get immediate feedback to change your swing, how you want to change it. And that's really just the beginning of what they have. I mean, they have all the the best new technology like that, but they also have club fittings.


They have top line equipment for rentals. If you don't want to lug your equipment into five iron, if you want to just get some of their stuff, they have brand new top of the line stuff. They also have lessons, just like any club would memberships. And it's also a great place to hang out. I mean, they got this get food before New York finally opened back up, I guess. Twenty five percent capacity for four indoor dining.


So hopefully we can go now and get some beers and. And food, half of our water is really a great a great place, you got to check it out and I will say this as well. If you haven't been to five Iron and you DMM on social media at five Iron Golf, spelled out five iron golf you get and tell them I sent you Caleb sending me from 51 strokes. They will give you a free hour on the simulator so you can go check it out and that's it.


That's great value. And they're actually just doing that because they they mess with us the long way. So take you to five iron and let's get into this podcast, this interview with Buster Share and find out what is going on with trading cards.


OK. Welcome to the show, Mr. Buster. How do I know I know how to say your last name. I pronounce it share, but I've heard Scurr, I've heard share, I've heard pretty much everything under the sun, what I would probably guess A you pronounce it correctly, is that correct?


I think so. I think so. OK, bussau share what you share today. We're going to talk about what's going on in these trading cards, dude, because I don't understand it. And there's a chance that is the dumbest thing ever. There's also a chance that I'm going to become a millionaire off it, because I think I have like a lot of trading cards from when I was little and I got my mom. I'm trying to convince my mom to go find them.


There's somewhere in my house I don't know where, but I mean, I used to be super into trading cards, but now seeing these crazy.


Like values on the Internet and I'm seeing all these tweets about Michael Jordan are gold plated nineteen ninety, whatever, rookie edition, million dollars, two million dollars, five, whatever. And so that's what I want to talk to you about today. But first of all, how are you doing, brother?


I'm doing great, thank you. How are you. Good. Where you come in coming to us from?


I'm in Austin, Texas right now, and I came here to escape the cold in New York. But the second I got here, it started snowing. So either I don't know what what happened, what went wrong, but I ended up right where I started the last time it snowed in Texas.


I feel like Texas actually did. I think Texas is supposed to get cold. And is there if there is a statewide emergency out right now because everybody's freaking out. It definitely gets cold, but I don't know how often it snows particularly further down south, but it's crazy.


As good as you got, you locked inside, you got you thinking about trading cards, that's pretty much it. Yeah.


So first of all, can you explain to me exactly your involvement in the trading card industry and in just the culture of what's going on right now? What's happening? Hundred percent, yes, so about, say, seven years ago, I first started buying and selling trading cards, I used to go to shows in Connecticut and New York and just buy stuff. Back then, everything was incredibly cheap. A Michael Jordan autograph was three hundred dollars. A LeBron James rookie was a couple hundred bucks.


And this is just seven years ago. So I was going and I still couldn't afford that stuff. And I also back then thought I was like, oh, this is way overpriced. This is ridiculous. But I did buy some Giannis Antetokounmpo PRISM rookies which back then were a dollar and I bought them because I thought it was funny how his last name stretched all the way around his back. Not because I was like a really good scout or anything like that, so I bought a few of them.


Those for context sake went from a dollar to about four thousand dollars in seven years in ten condition and they fluctuate between two and five.


But since then I've been doing it for a year or two, took a few years off, got back into it in twenty eighteen because I started seeing some rumblings online, friends getting into it, prices hitting all time highs by this point, a Jordan sign and Cavs a couple thousand bucks. LeBron rookies are over a thousand or two thousand. Right. And I'm like this is going to get really, really big. I started a basketball media company called Hoops Nation and I realized that I needed to create a subsidiary media outlet in the card space.


So I started carbonation. And then off of that context, I started personally investing heavier, started a show called Talking Shop. I interview collectors and investors of high end stuff like these old guys holding a Honus Wagner two million dollar cards like the zoom camera and doing stuff like that and getting deeper involved there. And I've since got involved with companies who are in the space and starting other media companies around it. But all in all, really big believer in the card space.


And it's been it's been pretty crazy to see why did you get into the first place?


Like what was your before? It was super proper. You said you just got was a twenty seventeen. You first got into y twenty fourteen.


Well I was fourteen then. Right. I'm twenty now. And back then it was just something that I enjoyed doing, collecting. And then I saw the potential for profit. And you know, you buy a player when people don't think he's that great and then you sell them when he's an all star. So I knew the game a little bit on that front. And I loved the sort of, you know, legal fourteen year old gambling aspect of opening packs.


And like, you could potentially get a hundred thousand dollar card or you could come away with nothing like really gambling for kids. Right. So I was super into it from that standpoint. And then I got lucky. Then I realized the context of what was happening overall. And now the reason that you're seeing like a Jordan Michael Jordan nineteen eighty six flier card in PSA ten condition, which, you know, cards are graded on a one to ten scale by two companies, primarily PSA and BJ's.


So this is a ten in PSA there only it's in the low hundreds. There are three hundred and some of those Jordans two years ago you could buy one for 20 grand. Now they're three quarters of a million dollars. So given given all of that because of institutional money, people with tens and hundreds of millions of dollars diversifying their hedge fund portfolios and other portfolios in the sports cards, that's what's really causing the meteoric rise.


Quick interruption to the interview to tell you about Roman swipes and a great deal for you. A lot of people, it's easy to have a lot of strokes on a golf course. I proved that I had over one hundred strokes. In one round, my first time I ever played golf, the first time I ever played, I had one hundred, I think, thirty one strokes, it was easy for me to have that many strokes. But in other areas of your life, it can be hard to have a lot of strokes.


Some men find themselves having only a few strokes before before it's all over. Yes, I am talking about sex. And when it comes to those type of issues, they're not problems. It's just something that you've got to get Roman swipes to get your full fifty one or more strokes in, if you know what I'm saying. If you go to get Roman dotcom strokes, you can get started. Let's get Roman dotcom strokes and they'll get you thirty five dollars off your first treatment if prescribed.


And if you purchase the strategy swipes, you get a free bottle of lube added to your order. So I would recommend if you feel like you could add stroke's to your game and you can always add strokes to your game that you go to get roamin dotcom strokes to get started, save some money and get more strokes. I just, I just don't get like. It felt like to me, because you're right, like it was like a legal gambling.


I used to be in the cards. I told you, like I used to love going to the store, you get a pack of cards. It's almost like Willy Wonka chocolate bars. You know, you hope you don't take it, but you probably not. But I do feel like there was there was you always going to get I did a baseball card, so I was like, you were always going to get like an all star every time.


Like, there was never a time where you didn't get at least one good player. It seems like there are just so many, like how many Michael Jordan cards out there, there has to be like hundreds of thousands of Michael Jordan guards out there. How are they valuable?


So what you're looking for, there are tons of Michael Jordan cards. You can go buy a Michael Jordan card for two dollars now. But the thing that is the differentiating factor between the two dollar card and the three quarter of a million dollar card is that a one is his rookie and B, it is the actual graded scarcity. Right. So I'll just use an example. Here's a Kobe Bryant rocket. This is a PSA nine. So there are only so many PSA nines.


There are only so many PSA tens in the world.


And this is a really good condition, great condition, mint condition. So it's a combination of the scarcity of the card, whether it's a rookie or whether it's just an incredibly rare card that people want because it's all supply and demand and then and then what the condition is. So for Michael Jordan, a PSA 10, Michael Jordan rookie is the sort of epitome of all of those categories being at full throttle and him being one of the greatest, if not the greatest baseball player of all time, the most famous people of all time.


Perfect condition and a rare card that everybody wants.


And then how much is that going for? Three quarters of a million, the last one sold for about seven hundred and fifty thousand. Is that the most expensive car ever know? There are.


So the most expensive sports car ever is a Mickey Mantle. Mickey Mantle from back in the day. I believe it is 50 to one of those, but there's only one in 10 condition that person has not sold and I don't think is looking to sell. But if they were to sell, that would be a twenty five million dollar card in today's market shot up.


And who who has it's like a like a Saudi Arabian prince.


So funny you say that. No, it is, isn't it? I don't think it is for for the mantle. But my buddy Rob, he just bought that same card in a nine condition, so not even a 10. And he paid five million. He paid five million pay and he's thinking that is he just a rich guy who wants to have this card or is he thinking he's going to flip that for six? He's going to flip it?


Yeah, you can have like you buy a house. Do you, like, repair the house? You put it in a new sink. What do you like what do you do the card to flip it? How does it grow in value? Just people are more interested. Just wait on interest to come.


Right. So the money in the hobby. Right. So if he has a nine that he paid five million for and then an eight eight eight comes up an auction and then the eight sells for more than it's sold prior, the PSA eight goes up, then the PSA nine goes up, then the PSA 10 goes up. So all it really takes are a couple of good auctions of that card and a lower grade value to go up. Also, his other cards, like his rookie card and other historic cards, like if a Wagner goes out, Honus Wagner, which was before this mantlo the most cards would ever sell for because they have been selling for millions of dollars for years now, the nineteen eighty to six Honus Wagner card.


And you know, one of those goes out and sells for 10, 15 million. Then it reflects really well on some of the other popular cards.


But why don't why don't mean you go into business. And since you know so much about it and this is my idea, we'll go 50 50 and we just counterfeit these things because there's zero percent chance that they did a good job in 1940 when Mickey Mantle was playing baseball, putting in something on the card that makes it on counterfeit. Well, you know, that's the scarcity point is really great. That's why there are so few. That's why they're so valuable.


The cards were not made incredibly well, let alone printed well, let alone capture over 80, 100 years. It's ridiculous. But the point against counterfeit. So, like, I'll just show this. This is the Wilt Chamberlain from the nineteen sixties. The reason that this is worth anything is because it's authenticated by PSA.


But how do they authenticate it. Because like a dollar at least has dollars get successfully counterfeited. And they have mechanisms inside of them to make sure they're not counterfeited. I guarantee you actually I don't want a guarantee. I bet that they weren't thinking about counterfeiters making cards in in the nineteen hundreds. Am I wrong?


No, you're definitely you're definitely not wrong. And there are a lot of folks out there, a lot of Michael Jordan fakes. eBay actually has a policy that you're not allowed to sell ungraded. Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Derek Jeter. Like all the top dogs, you can't sell them on credit anymore because of how many people are faking them. Yeah, why not us? Well, I think I think there are a few things that make it make it hard, you know, what PSA and what all the greeting card companies look look at they look at the exact card stock, which is unique to every single card.


They look at the ink like there are really a lot of details that you would be able to tell, but they're definitely good fakes out there. So you've got to be careful. Or not. OK, OK, let me ask you this, then I can confidently pitch me as if I was I know you don't care, but if you did care, you were really trying to get me into the car market. Pitch me why I would. Put money like it seems like it's good investment for people outside of hobbyists, it seems like it's really becoming an investment totally.


We've talked on the podcast before about like Bitcoin and and like crypto a little bit, but. Pitch me as if I was a prospective investor and trading cards, why would I do it instead of putting my money elsewhere? Totally. So I think one of the key things to to look at her in trading cards overall, if you look at the S&P 500, is like the top stocks in the market in the last 10 years, 12 years since 2008, 2009, right after the crash.


Things are coming back up.


If you look at the S&P 500 versus the equivalent of that and sports card, the top 500 sports cards, the the equivalent, the index of sports cards has done exponentially better, almost two times better than the S&P 500 from its lowest point in time.


I can't, but I can't invest in a top five hundred sports car. Well, there are a few things that you can do. So fractional shares have become a really big thing in companies like Rally Road and others buying the biggest items. So they'll buy a PSA 10 verses and charge four hundred thousand dollar card or a Michael Jordan rookie. And then they'll allow people to buy into it at fifteen dollars a share, which then gets you to benefit on those top cards.


But you see similar growth with even smaller cards. So from last March until now, Pokémon first edition Pokemon cards and outpaced Tesla, which is up over 700 percent in the last three and sixty five days. Pokemon card first edition cards are up even more than that.


So, you know, there definitely is short term. Like you could have bought a three hundred dollar Pikachu card last year that's, you know, got up to about four thousand dollars. So those those sort of multiples are there. And where would you even do it? Is there a site like a legitimate site where, you know, every single thing that you're going to get on that site is going to be authenticated and not fake? And then where would you sell it?


eBay, you know, eBay, but you have to buy it, counterfeiting this eBay is the best we got right now. So there are a couple of sites, but if you're buying from sellers who have good ratings and social followings and things like that, who you are, who you trust, are people you trust, trust, you know, 100 percent feedback, hundreds of sales and everything is created because you've got to buy great stuff to sort of minimize the risk of fakes by a ton.


Yeah, but couldn't you if you're just going to fake it, couldn't you just say could you fake that? It was great. It. Well, there's a number, so like I'm here, you see, like there's a number right there, you can actually look that number up on his website that so that that's that's sort of the checker. It is good thinking, though, that I'm just trying to think there's also there's a scan like a barcode on the back that you can scan and get more information about the cards.


How big do you see this getting?


So in the last year? Pretty much every card is up, hundreds of percents. And and that was without the big institutional money, similar to how you see like with Bitcoin now, Apple and Tesla, they're all like, oh, we're going to put one point five billion dollars of our cash reserve into Bitcoin.


That same thing is happening in sports, kind of just on a tiny, tiny scale like, you know, ten million dollars, one hundred million dollars in sports car to so much of a greater impact on the card market overall than that put on Bitcoin.


So as this continues to happen, it's getting real crazy for the super high end. I warn people, though, modern cards, they're far more produced. It's much it's much riskier, much more volatile. So going back to some of the classics are better. And then I'll tell you, since we're recording this on Presidents Day, I did get something earlier today that I think you'd get a kick out of.


What is it? I bought an Abraham Lincoln autographed. How so, I'll send you the photo if you want to overlay it or anything like that.


But so the way that Lincoln autographs happened are he signed a lot of documents while he was president, particularly because he was president, obviously, during the civil war. There are a lot of documents. There are a lot of letters that he wrote in addition to the fact that, like you look at a president now, everything is done by email. They don't write anything back then. Everything is done by hand. Presidents literally used to have to sign every envelope they sent.


It's called a free frank because a president's signature acts as a stamp. It's fun fact. But so, like, if you if George Washington back in the day, every letter that he sent, he signed the top corner instead of putting a stamp because the Postal Service and the president counted as a stamp.


Now, listen, I don't want to interrupt you, but if we were alive back then, instead of counterfeiting cards, we would just be sending letters and writing President George Washington.


Laughs Oh, my God. 100 percent that we would have we would have made a killing on that. Yeah. Sorry to interrupt you, but so far, Lincoln, he's had a lot of documents. Somebody bought a document a few years ago and they folded it, put it in a slab similar to this. If I had and I would show you, but I just find it. So it's being shipped and it's folded over is autographs on it.


It was actually signed January 13th, 1865, which was two weeks before the 13th Amendment, which abolished slavery, which is pretty intense. But beyond that, that's like a whole nother side of the collectible world that I'm also into.


And then how much of that running? So the Lincoln was about ten grand.


It's worth a little bit more. But it was the deal that I made was cards plus cash. So the value of it's probably like 12 to 13. And I think that's incredibly undervalued because you look at it right, like a Tzion Rookie pajarito, which is his rookie year, signed with a piece of his jersey on it for the best product. Some of those are selling for 70, 80 thousand dollars. Right. And then I look on the other hand, I can get a document from one of the most consequential historical figures and presidents in the history of the United States for one eighth of that.


Right. Right. And then with his eye on things like how many were they making? Those they have to be if they're going for that much, why don't they just print them?


So that would bring down the value, because it's all about how many are out there and they're numbered. So like for the regular number to ninety nine, number to twenty five to ten and five and number to one. So they're under two hundred. But in terms of his overall rookies, you're going to die at this stat. So they're in all Panini products from Tzion Williamson's rookie year. There are over twelve hundred different Tzion Williamson rookies. And that's why I say stay away.


Right. So basically just seems like collecting cards isn't necessarily cards, isn't necessarily about like. Is it a modern thing, it's really you're just getting old card is more like an antique or Abraham Lincoln Collectible. Is that correct?


Yeah, I mean for the stuff that's safer for sure. But you will see hypergrowth with modern.


Like if you buy if you bought a train this past off PSA and prison train near like ten thousand, I'm not there. But if you bought that the off season, it was like four hundred. Then the season came back and it went all the way up to nine hundred and then it went down to six hundred and now it's up five hundred. It could go back up to a thousand if he goes out and puts up seventy one night. So it's just, it's just whether you want to play the volatility game or not.


Is it strictly based on the player's performance. It's based on a few things.


I think performance and being in the news, being in the media definitely helps because it just gets people thinking about it. And in sports cards, press is definitely good for guys and their card values.


But a lot of it is also the overall like what people are saying, what like the experts in the hobby are saying, are people pushing it? Something that's very common now is very familiar with just the concept, but just pump and dumps. So those do happen as well, which is why it's important also just buy what you like and believe in and not follow other people.


What convinces you that? And I'm not saying that it is, but just to play devil's advocate, what convinces you that this isn't just a fad? Something is going to be popular for one year, two years, five years, and then we'll kind of go out of style and and the cards will lose 50 percent, 70 percent of their value. Right. So I think that, A, there are enough people in it that just want them dollar aside and then be given the amount of money that is in it.


Now, similar to cryptocurrency, when you see something drop, people buy it because they believe in it so much. That happens with sports cards, too. If a Kobe Bryant rookie falls under sixteen hundred dollars or ten thousand dollars, there are people there who will snag them up, you know, and that keeps the floor high.


Well, like, what was the I'm trying to think when I was growing up, it was like, oh, was it Furbies?


You remember Furbies, of course, those really expensive. At one point, Furbies, there might be something else.


I don't think they had their moment. Beanie Babies had a moment. Beanie Babies, Beanie Babies and Beanie Babies were people were collecting them. It was super hard to get your hands on them. And then it was like, oh, these are going to have a real resale value. And then a couple of years went by and people just forgot about Beanie Babies. And then now you can buy a Beanie Baby for five cents you had.


People will pay you to take their Beanie Babies at this point. Yes. You make a big deal, take their Beanie Babies and just have them remade into a beanbag chair. That's not a bad idea.


I actually did that with stuffed animals back in the day. Yeah, but that's all I'm saying. What? So if you look at like just to use a Bitcoin example, again, just something that I'm more familiar with. You kind of know that that's not a it has a purpose, it's trying to fix a problem. You know, it's not a lot of people compare Bitcoin to especially like in early 2017 or whatever, people were comparing Bitcoin to that type of fad.


But I think the reason why I was in it was because it was it's actually it's actually an effort to solve a problem. And I don't think sports cars necessarily solve a problem. What convinces you that it's not just Beanie Babies.


So the 100 plus year history like cards have been selling. Honus Wagner sold in the nineteen sixties for a lot of money. So the that history is something that even Bitcoin doesn't have right by nature. So the 100 plus year history of Beanie Babies that had that, maybe they would have lasted longer. But it was hype and a lot of marketing and smart, well done stuff. But the sports cards have have real history and backlog to the great stuff.


And I think there is a point to be made, something that I think about very often, not that it keeps me up at night, but I do worry for people who are super deep in specific missions because I do think specific missions of like overproduction, things like that can happen.


It happened in the nineteen nineties. If you look at Ken Griffey Jr., I think there are ninety four thousand High-Grade, Ken Griffey Jr. rookie cards and then brought that value down.


So, so, so much because of overproduction, because the companies were like well if people are buying them let's just make it possible and is down to that.


That's what I remember about trading cards. I guess that's what I'm trying to say earlier is like I remember when I was in the trading cards, you were almost guaranteed to get a Ken Griffey Jr. every time you got a pat, right? That's what I remember. So that's my perspective of where I'm coming from. You no more. Well, it's not the case for stuff it's already done, right? So like the Jordan eighty six Faliraki, nobody's going back to nineteen eighty six until Elon Musk developed time travel or something like that.


But nobody's going back there. And Fleer doesn't even have the licensing rights to produce NBA cards anymore. Right. Owned by Panini. So that's fixed. Like that's a pretty fixed number. The percentage will go up and down by like one percent. But then you have to remember, a lot of people who have them will never sell them. So the out of the three hundred and thirty something Jordan rookies that there are only a small percentage are even thinking about getting rid of them or selling them.


So the percentage that actually hits the market is so much smaller, drives the price up even more because there's not like they're not going to like an auction house.


Usually it's auction houses.


It is for the big cards. It's auction houses. Sometimes eBay, like Tarzan's PSA tennis sold on eBay. Kobe refractor is sold on eBay. Fun, fun fact. Actually, there's one now that's this card, except it's a refractor. So it's like three notches above and it's a gentleman 10. It's called a black label. It's like the best of the best. It's in an auction right now and it'll probably sell for two million dollars. So it'll be the most expensive Kobe card ever sold.


What's your best card, that Kobe card?


No, I mean, my favorite thing now is probably that Lincoln that I was telling you about.


But, you know, I'll go through some of the some of the cool stuff, some of my favorite stuff where we work.


And I mean, I'm definitely all over the place when it comes to collecting. But here's something that I'll show. This is a first edition Pikachu.


I remember those cards so you can tell those some of those to grow.




Look, because these are these are nothing, these little first edition stamp right there. Here's a sign. Derek Jeter, rookie. And I'm really excited for Derek Cards, because when they put out his documentary, the same thing that happened to Michael Jordan will happen to Derek Jeter.


Yeah, tell who this is. This is a sign business card. Who is it, Phil Knight, the founder of Nike. Is the fun random? No, he didn't put a to it is a signature. Yes, not I guess not just to keep an eye on on the night, here's a Sakuragi. So are you are you going to flip these things or are you are you collecting them? Are you a collector or you will buy and flip them?


I'm somewhere in between.


Honestly, I definitely don't like to buy things that don't appreciate in value. I try I do try to set up my life and and things where, you know, the stuff that I'm passionate about tend to be appreciating. Right. So, like, if I was into sneakers, that's an example of a very, very intensely depreciating asset. If you're actually going to wear them and a, they take up a lot of real estate, you can fit five stacks like this of cards in a single shoe box and you could only fit one pair of shoes in.


But shoes are like cars the second you drive them off the lot that were 30 percent less of their original value. So I found sports cards and I was like, OK. This is something that I'm passionate about, and if I buy a Kobe Bryant rookie, I know that it's not apart from the natural market volatility, it's not going to depreciate in value because of anything I'm going to be doing to it. It's not like I had more miles or add more show and tells to my Kobe and it goes down in value.


So I try to put my money into things that are like that, that generally appreciate as opposed to like and there's nothing wrong with, like shoes or cars or bags or anything like that, but those are not appreciating assets. So that's one of the reasons why I like I love it as like a fan collector. But it's also fortunate that they are appreciating assets.


And I think that's why I'm naturally drawn to them.


How do you make the decision when it's time to sell them? Usually it's what I'm trying to buy another. But, you know, I have a couple of rules. One rule that I stick by them, my buddy Scott taught me and I really like it. I think it's applicable for a lot of things. It's a 10x rule. If you 10x on an investment, you don't think you just saw just ten. I mean, that's a thousand percent multiple.


Here's another fun. Here's a fun soccer one. This is a Neymar silver from his rookie year from the World Cup. It's a PSA nine. They're only thirty of these in the world, which is pretty cool.


This is a nineteen fifty two. Willie Mays. This is his second year playing professional baseball. He's awesome. Wait, so let me ask this. And also is this two two part question one, part one. How much is your card collection worth? Total or two? Is that is that in is it a rude question to ask? Is that like asking somebody like how much money they have or is or, you know, I think in most cases it would be not.


To me, it's not like I'll preface it also would like I don't keep any of my cards. They're all in vaults and they're at facilities that hold them in states that have tax benefits for that and those sorts of things. But it's a couple of bitcoins, I can say that much. Right.


Well. It's good, it's fun, man. It's kind of fun and like the joke, and I always have to say as well. Here's another cool is Roger Federer signed?


Ricky, I'm big on tennis. But the thing that I say as well, like you do have to keep perspective. Like at the end of the day, I'm collecting like these are pictures of little men. Like it's kind of like that perspective is important, like people can oftentimes in the hobby people get.


So like to get into it, like it's honestly too intense for me.


Like I'm just having fun. Like, I really just enjoy it more than anything else. People take themselves too seriously usually. So at the end of the day, I collect pictures of little men.


Yeah, that's kind of how I thought of it. Going into this interview is like, what is what is going on? What's wrong with people at work? You know, I see Gary vulgarity and he's always talking about trading cars, trade cars. Next big thing is he's like one of the leading guys in the culture.


One hundred percent fun fact. I actually interned for Gary when I was 15 years old. So definitely some of some of what I got and have comes from him and his world.


But, yeah, he's definitely he's he's he's at the top of the card world.


Who else who else is like a big figure in this space?


In the card space, definitely for some of the older stuff and like new stuff. Daryn Ravell is up there.


Here he is. Does he have a collection or is he just he's just breaking all the latest card news. He he is a pretty he is a cool collection. He's got like Babe Ruth signed checks and like, crazy. Yet he has a check of Babe Ruth paying for alcohol back in the day. But the check goes for like five thousand dollars, which at the time was like thirty grand of alcohol that he paid in one night at one bar.


You can't make that stuff up.


That must have been a party that night. But who else at the top of the game, Rob, who bought that mantle that I was telling you about, Ken and who has gold in auctions? A guy named Ryan. There are a lot of there are a lot of cool people in the in The Hobbit, a lot of big timers. The guy who just bought PSA, Nat Turner, he's a beast as well due to golf carts.


Hey, do Tiger Woods rookies are so Tiger Woods rookie. If you had bought it before the documentary was announced, the best ones were like one hundred bucks. Now they're over a thousand dollars. So they can extend like two months. But what if you're trying to make so you if you look at it from an investment standpoint and you're like, all right, I want to put 40 grand into cards, but I do I want to diversify my portfolio.


I don't want to just buy one 40 grand car. I want to put 40 grand in and get, you know, whatever, 10 cards or 15 cards, 20 cards. How would you go about that? Strategically, you would have to just evaluate all these different cards or would you buy up like I guess I wouldn't really I was going to say, would you buy up like all the Tiger Woods cars? But that really wouldn't be diversifying. Right.


Yeah, definitely want to diversify. Because the thing about the thing that I like about Pikachu and I'll just say this Pikachu, because there's if you're if you're buying like Shaq, right.


Shaq can always go out and do something stupid that would bring down the value of his car. Not that he ever would. He's the best. And that's why I use him as an example. But if Shaq got a DUI, it brings it down, brings down us.


And that's why I like Pikachu. Pikachu is not getting a DUI. He's not going to terrorize ACL. And I love that about him. Oh, interesting.


So you're saying the fictional would be the way to go? Sometimes.


Sometimes I've seen, like, you know you know, Dave Portnoy, the guy eats pizza, you know? I mean.


Yeah. He's like a slow right now, but I saw he tweeted that there's like a card of him. Would that be something you would get or is he too controversial, you think he's going to say something and you're is going to depreciate the value?


Well, I believe in Dave, so I would his card is that of Alan and Ginter and his card with a real card. It's a real card. Yeah, it's in a Topps product.


But does they get paid for that? Like, I feel like he was surprised when he saw it.


That's interesting question. I would have to know the back end. I mean, he signed some of them, so he can't be that shocked them.


He's going to get paid.


But some of them are songs like over a thousand dollars thus far. Yeah. Dave, Dave. Cards are on on the up and up. I mean, I believe in Dave and I think.


Are there any other personalities who have cards.


Tons. Tons there, Jay. So I'll tell you, I'll tell you a good story that I haven't told anywhere. So a Jay-Z card sold for twenty four hundred dollars. I sent that the screenshot of that sale to one of Jay's best friends who he works with, the Rock Nation and all that.


He was like, should I send this to Jay? And I was like, Yes, A.J. He was like, what should I say? I like to say that you have a card and it just sold for twenty four hundred dollars. Jay sees the photo and he just wrote back, can I curse on here and yes, please.


Jay Wright wrote back. He said blessings, but what in the fuck is that?


So a lot of these guys have cards, but they don't know like they've never seen it before.


Yeah, like how people print and cards. I feel like you have to pay Jay-Z for that, right? Yeah. I mean, I'm sure he had it here. Somebody did point in time for like 17 years later and nobody knows.


Yeah, it's crazy. OK, so tell me more about your specific company that you've started. Yeah.


So Cards Nation, Hoops Nation is the parent and then Cards Nations, the UN, the subsidiary. And I just built that as a platform because there aren't that many in sports cards like, you know, they're only a couple of accounts, more than 10000 followers and all those sports cards, like it's that nesh micro of a community of collectors. So I just wanted to build one of those platforms to do what like ESPN did for fantasy basketball before fantasy basketball and fantasy football was fantasy football.


You know, do that for sports cards. So I feel like I'm in the process of doing that. But also having it be a place to sort of push the things that I believe in in cards and try to keep people safe, like warm people, reinforce people to do the research and also for it to be a place for my card show, which is called Talking Shop.


And there was or what's. If we go on there, what are we going to find on coordination or talking shop coordination? Oh, you're just going to find a lot of a funny stuff about cards, B information, stuff about cards. And C, I love to talk about athletes with cards. So one of my favorite things that I actually do on my podcast is separate from that is I'll ask NBA players, what do you think your cards are worth?


Because these guys have no idea. But I'll ask a guy like guys there and Gordon, I was like power forward for the Orlando Magic. I was like, what do you think your card put it in the most one of your cards ever sold for? I don't know, man. Twenty dollars. I'm like, No, twenty thousand dollars.


And they're like, whoa. And everybody's like, yeah. So you guys have no idea what they're kind of just selling for. So that's a fun little segment that I like to do on there. But yeah, just overall love the hobby. I think that's what you'll find.


It's fantastic. Do so. I think I'm going to have to. I don't know if I can somehow. What inning is this, all right, if it's a nine inning game, what inning are we in in terms of the maturity of this as a as a being popular? I mean, I know you said it's been hundreds of years, but this has been going on, so. I'm just wondering, is this going to just appreciating so quickly I was watching it just blow up and it's like I hate to I hate to be on the sideline of anything, you know, I don't necessarily have, like, a ton of cash or anything like that, but maybe I could try to I mean, I might start in counterfeiting and then try to work my way into the deal.


But what inning are we in? You know, like is this going to continue to just be blowing up, blowing up? Is it like is it like Bitcoin in two thousand? You know, Bitcoin is over. The last ten years has blown up basically consistently. You know, A, if I could predict the future, I would be a very I would be much, much wealthier than anybody could have ever thought. But but, you know, I do think really I think we're not at the halfway point yet, but I do think we're in the we're in we're in extra innings for certain stuff.


People aren't people aren't thinking about population reports. That's how many of a car there are. You got to go for the ones that have low population and high demand. That's where research comes in.


But I think we're in extra innings of some cards that are way, way over printed and people, you know, maybe there are some pumping and things like that.


But I think we're in the beginning for the real stuff.


Is there anything I should know about this? I didn't ask any important pertinent information about the card trading space that we didn't get to.


Yeah, I think one of the things I would reiterate would be to do your research, do like six weeks, a couple of weeks of research, talk to people, confirm your purchases with friends who know about the space are like, damn it to me are like, you know, just anybody just like check with people before you spend a dollar because it's so easy to mess up.


So always double triple verify your purchases and do research like follow the card, you tubers and people like that, they exist now crazy enough. But yeah, definitely do do due diligence.


Got it. All right, thank you much good, sir, I believe that you've satiated my knowledge that this is I mean, usually this is a like a golf show, honestly, but we keep it pretty golf. But if there is a time or it's like this is happening and why is this happening? What is going on? We're not scared to go there. And I think this was. I'm glad. I feel. I get it, I get it, I get it, and I love trading cards when I was little and I get it now and I can see how it's basically to me how I've categories categorize it in my mind after talking to you is basically like it's like collecting art or collecting.


It's exactly the same. Yeah. And I guess I should've known that before but just sounded so crazy. It's like, oh this these trading card spaces blowing up because you don't hear about Artspace blowing up, which has always been big. So I've just always thought about that. But anyways, I feel like I got a better understanding for it and I hope that people are listening due to Alison.


Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. And one other thing I would say is you look at like the three hundred million dollar, you know, works of art that are selling various some of these like. All right. Which do the people with new money want?


OK, welcome to the after show, thanks again to Buster Cher. You can find him on Instagram, where he is huge at Buster, at Buster B Usdaw. His podcast is called The Buster Show Instagram's for Cards Nation, which at Cards Nation and Oops Nation as well. He's a talented young dude. I mean, he's 20 years old and obviously smart. Obviously, this guy is, you know, his head on his shoulders and is which is a good place for your head, in my opinion.


So I think the future's bright not only for trading cards, but for my friend Buster, which I was happy to get to know him a little bit better and hopefully continue to get to know him. In terms of the 51 Strokes, the podcast, we're actually at a very pivotal moment in fifty one strokes era and I want to talk to you more about it on Thursday and we'll go for. Full course episode on where we're at, what's happening.


Like, you know you know, I didn't really start really getting into playing golf until January. I had the vision. It came to me last was like May or something, I made the declaration, but it was I had the injury in football season. I couldn't play. I'm in New York City. There's not a lot of options. Now, its schedule starting to clear up and I'm starting to get a little bit more clarity on what's how we're going to make this dream a reality.


The dream being to become a professional golfer at some point in my life. So I want to talk. I kind of want to save it and and talk about that on Thursday, since that's coming right right away. I don't want to blow my low too early. I've got to get I'm basically getting to get Roman swipes about my story so that I don't blow my low too early telling you guys about where we're at. But I think some exciting stuff, stuff definitely pivotal.


And it definitely will be a turning point, whether for the good or for the worse. Also, I'll tell you a story on Thursday. I was going to tell it today, but why not Thursday? Because we'll do a full solo episode. So I'll kind of be able to tell you what was going on with me. I got bit by I got bit by a dog. I had to go to hospital and I'll tell you I'll tell you about that, too.


So, Avery, is there anything else that we need to do to make sure that these people know early in the week this week?


Now we just got we're rolling. We're back. You're back in New York City. That's big. So we'll be back in studio and the sky's the limit. VYVYAN Drinks are back. Foods back.


Yeah. And Five Iron is named named. Let me and Avery have a drink on their drink menu. And so they say you can tell us what the drink is and you can tell us what you want to be called. And so after much deliberation, much weeks of deliberation. So it is a lot of pressure. We went with the drink is a tequila. With a little soda and a splash of lemonade, so I like tequila because, you know, I feel like it's a it's one of the it's on the cleaner side also gives me energy.


There's some alcohols that I feel like kind of bring me down. Tequila feels like a good vibe. Energy feels clean, especially when you're swinging, too. Yeah.


Nothing like just being on tequila while you're swinging, swinging like tequila and then also illuminates fresh. You know, if you especially if you're in New York, it's the middle of the winter. This is something it's going to bring a little life to. Also the name. We went with the gentleman's dream. Do you think it might be classier than actual drink tequila with lemonade, that's kind of like a wild time. The gentlemen's dream sounds like you just signed up for BeeGees.


Put your down payment on a country club. So and maybe not even getting a membership at the country club, maybe buying the country club with a name like the Gentleman Street. So you got to if you are in five hours and you do go check it out, which I think I'll be there this week, just work on my game. I would say get a gentleman's dream, see if it's good. I'll have to do it, too, since I haven't had one yet.


Check out the YouTube channel, which is we're going to continue to build. We got to do some more blogs. I think we can. I think there's some stuff down here in Florida we could do with doing my my due diligence, my research. I think that there's some stuff we could be doing. So we're going to do some more videos. It will be the podcast clips, of course. But then also I think we could do some more original content.


We got growth that YouTube, I think.


I think with the YouTube, it's it's the best place to find our content. I mean, you got the podcast, but then with YouTube, we have video clips of every episode. We got the vlog with KOMO that did really well. And yeah, we're just the more we build that, the more things we can do outside of the office and showed you guys go.


All right. Thank you guys so much for listening. Hopefully you don't mind when we do these venture off episodes. If you hate them, tell it like tell me like it or send it to Avery. Avery does our our social's like he'll know like if you don't be mean, don't be disrespectful. But if you're not feeling it, just send a message, say, hey, we sign up for golf. Why are we not getting golf. I don't think it's how people feel.


But, you know, and if one person sends it and it will mean anything to me, but if a bunch of people send it, then we'll we'll take that. We'll take that as evidence that we need to stick, stick in our lane of golf, I don't know we're getting in how we how we live, we're figuring out as we go. Thank you for listening. I'll be back Thursday, Sollozzo, for catch up. What's going on in golf as well as did I get bit by a dog?


Answer is yes. Tip toe is going to be stuck. You can't tear us apart. I think there's no way you could pay up to. The look, your heart starts to be coming with you, you're coming with me now to see my favorite number three in. I still come here to. Tip toe, tip, toe, spin in the big world. Let me see this the can I hit? With the U.S. dropping down to see it go to 15 tickets, British National Front a.m. dreaming is coming true that the Keys is the second bluegill to support at least Brime to be torn down.


American can be negative to see them who try to hold me down. Two peas in the bucket, bucket load up a hole. Wow. I got to go. Exotic boots on the floor, tip toe to toe to toe, Mr..