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[00:00:00]

Hey, everyone, welcome back to another episode of a proportional response podcast, my new guest is my sister, Andrea Walker. I was down in Glasgow for the weekend and took the opportunity to record an episode with her because I believe while firstly people can learn a lot from her successes and struggles, particularly during university, and just because I love chatting and hanging out with her, we talk about her hard work ethic, our great relationship as brother and sister, her homesickness during her years in St Andrews and living in a guest house and more.

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I also want to take this opportunity to thank people for listening and the lovely messages and comments I've received since starting this podcast. I really appreciate it and I'm glad people seem to be enjoying it. But let's get to today's conversation with Andrew Walker.

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Okeydokey, I am here with Andrea. How are you? I'm good, thanks. How are you doing? I'm good. OK, so I'm going to start off with a question about our growing up. And from my perspective, we had a very good relationship growing up, particularly compared to other siblings I know, which were prone to more fighting and arguments. So I was going to ask, how are you so composed when for some time and I don't want to make myself sound like bad, but sometimes I would go into like the living room or something and I'd like to see how far I could wind you up and you never react it.

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You just so I think the most you ever reacted was like showing at me and then just walked off and like. Yeah. So how did you stay so composed even when you had an annoying little brother?

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Sometimes to do was I don't remember you being all that annoying. Yeah, I was on a few occasions but still. Well that probably taught me not to do it because you never reacted. That was the other thing.

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If I didn't react one to annoyed you more and to. Yeah. Yeah. I just I never really liked the fighting. I just it was easy just to walk away. That's true. I think, I think we were quite lucky because we had our own bedrooms growing up OK. So we had our own space so that if you were really, really annoying I could just shut my door. Yeah. And go away. But yeah, I agree.

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I think we had a good relationship compared to a lot of other siblings, but yeah. I think. Probably just didn't really enjoy the fighting part, so it was easier to just wind you up by not reacting.

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Yeah, that was probably the most annoying. Um, what other factors do you think maybe contribute to us being so, well, spirited when we when we grew up together? Was could it be our parents and how they their style of parenting? Maybe because they never raised their voices at us? I don't think ever so. No mother would if we were really when we were really young. Yeah.

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But I think I can only remember one occasion and I was like, OK, Charlotte, I think we never really had the experience of people solving things by arguments or by yelling or fighting our own way of solving things to us to talk to one another or quite get some cool down time and then discuss it. There was never an experience like mom and dad fight. Yeah. By yelling at each other in front of us. So we never really had that as a role.

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I also had this really good thing where they sort of guilt us.

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I think for me. No. Yes, I think yeah. And I think you took off with me just walking away, because when you walked away, I was just like, oh, God, I'm a horrible person and you're done. But yeah, I didn't get what I wanted to get out of it, whereas, like, when I was younger, like, this isn't last week, by the way, when I was younger, I used to whine so much about having showers.

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I don't know what it was about. So I just hated hygiene. Apparently I used to whine. Mom was like, you need to have a shower and I'll be like, Oh, I don't want a shower. Yeah, brushing your teeth is horrible. Yeah. But then eventually after 15 minutes of me whining about not wanting a shower, she'd just go, OK, don't have a shower. And I'll be like, oh God, she's going to be so upset, so disappointed if I don't have a shower now.

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So I just want another shower.

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And you would just save yourself 15 minutes. Exactly. Well, yeah, that was her main argument. I just didn't whine. And you would be clean and you wife, you wouldn't have to go through this every time, but, um. Yeah. So they definitely had that guilt, really.

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I don't know if you have any examples of an example, but yeah, it was more like they would yell at you so they would just yell silently. Desire to be interesting to see what they think mean. Listen to this. Yeah. Um yeah. So I'm glad we have a consensus on that and we still have a very good relationship. Like I've come down here this weekend. We're going to go see War Horse in the theater. Yeah. So yeah, that's something I really, really cherish.

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It's something really nice that I like about family too. Um, let's move on slightly. Uh, I've written here that you're a brilliantly clever person, which is very true. But also I'd like to say that it's not all natural. I don't think I think it comes from what I perceive to be a remarkable work. So, um, like I remember in school when you had exams and I was a bit younger because I was a three year gap between us, that you had to sort of go up into your room.

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And then I just never see you for hours upon hours until, um, until, like, it was tea or dinner or whatever. And then you'd come down, then go back up to revise. And I always thought it was like the craziest thing. And also, like, when you're walking home, you'd have like I don't know how long, but you had crazy long study sessions for university. So why does this work as it comes from?

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Because I don't believe I have the same work ethic and it's rather frustrating.

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And I say, well, thank you. That was very kind. Yeah, I think. First, it was maybe just wanting to do my best and knowing other people thought I could do really well. So there was some underlying talent there because people knew I could do well and that kind of what I wanted to live up to that OK. But yeah, later I just started to enjoy I enjoyed studying. I like being a student. So this don't get me wrong.

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There is some crap days in there that just like I don't really want to study today, but I once I started getting good grades, I love the feeling. So I was I didn't mind the work because I knew if I did all of this, I would feel like it was less work. But that's still not enough. I don't feel like I've gotten good results from from tests and until like, oh, that was really worth it. But then when you're in the moment and you're trying to force yourself to study, I don't think that's high enough for motivation sometimes.

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True.

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I think I don't often have now. I do have to force myself to study. But I also what I know that once I'm in it, I won't mind it as much. It's getting started. I, I think I'd agree. But as soon as you sit down and go, no matter how slow I am for this first half hour, if I sit and I do like one question, the first half hour, as long as I'm doing something OK, I'll get into it enough that I can.

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OK, go. And if I'm not getting into it, then fine. It's a slow day. Yeah, but yeah, as long as I just have to make myself sit down I think. Yeah. And also when I'm like doing that I tend to just find my mind wanders onto something else and I just spend 20 minutes thinking about some random thing in the morning. How different is there a way that you keep focused on the task at hand?

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Is it just the motivation of getting the good grades?

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Um, I think one thing that helped me at university. Yeah. And both at the end of St. Andrew's and last year in the master's study buddies. OK, that's good. I met up with people every day. So, you know, I'd meet up with Elena in the physics cafe and I knew if I wasn't working, they don't work because I'd be distracting them. And it's important to me that they're working if they want to work. Yeah.

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So like so I'm like sat there for an hour and I really want to go for a walk. But right now that's not working. I can do this. I think I can be. Yeah. That's really so good. And then because it's your friend, if you do need a break for like twenty minutes or whatever, you can stop.

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And instead of sat by yourself in your room watching a YouTube video which could go on for days. Yes, yes, yes, yes. She was just very deep. Black hole. Yeah. Yes. Inside you trying to friend and you discussing something funny or. I think it's a nice it's more of a break. Yeah. I think it helps me if I'm chatting to someone in my break rather than still alone studying in my own head. Yeah.

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If I take a break from it's still going on. Yeah. See I study but definitely helped.

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OK lads those really go. I've tried doing well with some of my friends to varying degrees of success. Like I think we went to the library, a couple of us and at first we started very well. And then the more we did it, I think the more we saw Slok and the rules of studying and it just ended up being mean for a long time.

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But yeah, I think it can be a really effective form of revising if you can do it well. And do you have the discipline to say, yeah, let's just work for two hours and then we'll have a twenty minute break or for three hours and whatever?

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I think that worked really well. And it also means that you can help one another. Like there were times when last year we were having really long days and it would get to a point where they like. Right. Or someone in the group would say, I'm going home and I think we all should go home. Oh, like you would help each other because, yeah, we're all getting so stuck into it that it was just like, no, everyone needs a break.

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Let's go for a walk in the park now, because that was the most annoying thing. I'm going to have a wee detour, but revising in May when it's beautiful outside and the parks are full of people that are enjoying the sun and have nothing to do. And it feels like all the good films are out in the cinema.

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And you're like walking on your ten minute break through a park and you're like, all these people are having barbecues and they're enjoying life. And I got to go back to that room with a horrible poster on the wall. Yeah. And just. Yeah, sorry, we detour. No, you slightly mention there you are very long revision sort of study periods, especially during your masters. Was there like things that you did help prolong that period so you didn't have to leave so often, so maybe kept you focused on studying like I think one.

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The thing you do is maybe I don't even know if you did do this, but I think it it is used to like prep your lunch the day before and then take it in with you. Was that something you did or is that something I've just constructed in my head?

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Maybe a couple of days. I wasn't that organized when I came back. Occasionally, if I had leftover dinner, usually I'd make way too much for dinner. Yeah. And then the next morning they owe me lunch. OK, but that didn't happen as often as you'd like. OK, so were there other sort of ways to avoid procrastination that maybe I could or are like people listening might be able to use?

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Um, I think avoiding the music is a good one. I always thought if I was starting to get distracted and thoughts were coming into my head, that I might just focus on finding music. That was something I liked, but not something I would sing along to. Yes, that's a really good point, because if it's too for you, just start singing to it. Yes. Which also doesn't help when there's other people in the room. OK, there was a couple of times where I'd start dancing without realizing it and then realizing that's probably bugging people.

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But yeah, I think it was like Top Gun soundtrack is a good one. Yes, you told me about that one. Actually, that is a good one.

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There's a couple of them that you sing a couple of lines of. But other than that, it's good background music. So it keeps the thoughts out of your head.

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Yeah, it's something to distract you. What else did I do that we have, we think. Yeah, I think stopping balance is a good thing. So like, if I go for two hours and just start, I have read that paragraph four times. It's not going in. Yeah, I have no idea why. And I'm just like, OK, take a break. I don't have to disturb anyone around me. I can pop on a quick YouTube video.

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I just need to get out of it or change subject. OK, I was lucky enough that I got no, no, no, no, no, no, no way. Lucky I had a lot of subjects to go through. Yeah. I think the last one was ten. So I just skip, I just if I wasn't going in skip it. If it's a slow day that's OK. Except that it's a slow day. Have a cup of tea and just as long as you're doing something, as long as I was doing something I felt like it was productive, it was productive.

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I couldn't beat myself up at the end of it because I'd only done three questions out of the twenty on the paper. Yeah, it didn't matter. As long as I'd done something then that was progress. It was three closer to the end. Yeah, I think that's a good thing. I feel like what you're saying is a lot of it's based on just keeping a positive mentality about um. But even if you're there and it's maybe going slow, but the fact that you're there and you're trying is a positive trait and it's making it productive even if you don't feel like you've done enough.

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Yeah, it's been productive. And just you even trying and being there.

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Definitely, because I think it's time to stop punishing myself for only doing three questions. You just start to spiral. Yeah. I mean like. Right. Need to do next. Twenty questions today, but I have to do them in three hours and said that's not in any way going to make it come back next day.

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So that's not something you do. You don't. Well do you like targets for the day and try and meet them on one.

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Yeah I know. Always depends on the subject of some subjects. Are these questions. Once I know the answers, I'll be able to do the exam. Yeah. Make it through this. So you have papers to read and you've got to get through. And I know how many hours I got for this subject. Yeah. So I have to do these papers in these days. Yeah. Some of them. It's just what do you feel like doing today or what part of it is left to study.

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Yeah. Yeah it really depended on.

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But one thing we can move on in a bit, but one thing that you I think showed me was making like an exam study timetable or admission timetable. And that worked quite well for me because my exams are always literature based, because I study politics. But it was always like you have to write two essays and two hours or three essays and two hours. So there would be cases where you'd need to know five essays and then you'd pick those three in the exam.

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So setting out so like, OK, these two days I'm going to learn the first essay. Uh, there's two I'm going to learn the next essay topic and then setting out like that so that you have targets on those forces you to try and completer. And then you're obviously going to give yourself a bit of leeway so that if you have like a rubbish day, which everyone's always going to have, then you have that leeway. The it's not the end of the world if you don't manage to finish the first essay topic by the time that you want to, and then you just sort of move through like that and it's quite methodical.

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So it's it's not just sort of like scatterbrain sort of you need to do something. No, I definitely. These days, where I knew which day when I woke up in the morning, I knew the subject I was gonna study that day and roughly where I was within that subject to go to the next part of it. Yeah, because I studied maths and then computer science. It was quite methodical. I'd start at the beginning of the course and just work through because there's no point just picking a random area because you won't know the basics from the beginning of the course.

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Yeah. And by that point. So just start at the beginning of work your way through it. Yeah. And yeah, there were, there were checkpoints throughout it where if by day three of this subject I needed to be for a quarter of the way through. Yeah. Yes. A study plan is how I work.

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I know it doesn't work for everyone, but these things aren't going to work for everyone. But it definitely helped me focus and it took a bit of the pressure off. I didn't feel like I was oh my gosh, I still have 50 pages of this course to go through because I know that's how many days I've got for this subject. These are the number of pages left and I pulled out so I can finish this on time. Yeah.

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You went to St Andrew's, which you mentioned briefly. It's a very high performing school. It's a difficult school to get into is there may be a pressure to perform on these high achieving when you have high achieving peers as there may be a pressure to perform to that high standard?

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I think once you're in to St Andrews, I it felt like a big thing getting in once I was there.

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Everyone still feels the same.

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Well, no, because then suddenly I went from doing really well in school. Yeah. To being mediocre. Yeah. OK, because everyone's on a similar level. Yeah. So yes, it did help insofar as there were people that were insanely clever, like. Right. I'm going to I'm going to go it and then about a semester and you're not a chat's. Yeah. Insanely smart. I can't keep up with that, but I know what I can do and I'm going to keep.

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So yes, there was like you go into the school, you know. Exactly. Yeah. I know how to do it. Yeah. But no, I think most of the pressure was for myself knowing that I wanted to do well and knowing, like I said earlier, that it felt good when I did. Yeah. I also think I got a kind of reputation is the wrong word, but among family and friends, many people knew me as the clever person.

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Yeah. And I liked that. But also I felt some kind of pressure to do well. And that that's interesting. Yes. From family and friends thought of me as really clever that a positive pressure or did you find a way down? Slightly positive, especially when like talking to parents who I know they were proud no matter what. Yeah. Yeah. That if I failed, I would be really disappointed that I'd lost that kind of passion. But I don't think it was going to disappoint many other people.

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Yeah. So you felt like you wanted to keep the status as the the kids. Yeah, it's something. Yeah, but it's true. Yeah. Everyone sort of. Well yeah. Not that everyone else is stupid I'd like to say, but you're just very clever. So yeah. You had a bit of a reputation there, but it wasn't all smooth sailing when you first got to St Andrews. I wasn't, I must say when I was in school and you'd just left for university, I wasn't totally aware of how homesick you were or that you suffered from a homesick particularly.

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It's just something that Mum would mention to me, but I was never aware of it. But what were the main contributions to feeling particularly homesick when you first left home? Because you had a bit of a weird whole set up, which wasn't the best. Maybe that was a contributor to it.

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Yeah, I think like we said before, we're quite close family. Yes. A lot of evenings watching TV, the four of us. Yeah. So when it was suddenly just me and in an evening if I'm watching NCIS or strictly. Yeah. It's a lot less fun when you sat on your own without comments coming in. Yeah. Yeah I'm through about it. So or even if they're not saying anything, it's just having someone near you. Yeah.

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I think I was trying to do the same thing I did at home, but at uni and it's not it's very different with different people. Yeah. Or no people. So I think that contributed to it a bit. And also not because you go through school for like six years or whatever. And during that time I hadn't really made new friends. I'd had the same friends. I'd made a couple of new ones. Yeah. But mainly I'd stuck with the same people.

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Yeah. So it got to that point where I was like, I don't remember how you make friends. I didn't do that often. So I got to the point where I was like, OK, now I've got to go make friends again. It's a new completely new people and I've got to go out of my comfort zone. Yes. I don't think it helped. I wasn't that sporty, so I didn't join a club, sports club or team.

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But people seem to really connect with. So I think. Yeah, on that bit with uh, yeah. For first year I stayed, I played with a local team, but in second year I joined the ultimate Frisbee team, which yeah, they're all lovely people. It's, it's really fun. It's also very competitive, which people don't often realize. But yeah, that's obviously a good social tool that I used in university. But I can see how you would struggle without a kid.

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You had to go to society. Thankfully, St Andrew's had a lot of society. Yeah. If you had an interest, that was probably something to do with it and so you could go along in that way. You were chatting with Don last week. Yeah. Or whenever the ice came out. She's a fan. She's a fan about the drinking atmosphere. Drinking culture. Yeah. And I like you in first. Yeah. I wasn't that keen on boxing.

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Yeah. I go to the to have a few drinks with the people, the. I knew that, but if there was pub crawls, next thing, I wasn't going along with much enthusiasm. Yeah, um, although it turns out the people that I completely love for my final years in uni were the people going on to the pub crawls in first year. Yeah, I just I wasn't at that point yet. Yeah. I think I was looking at and that made it a bit tricky.

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But like you said, with a holes, I had 12 people sharing one kitchen with no living area and also just. Yeah. In a bedroom by yourself. That's also a real opportunity to interact with people unless you went to the kitchen at the same time with someone.

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Yes. And even then it was a kitchen. There was a table with a couple of chairs. There's no sofa chair. You couldn't invite people into one of our rooms to sit and watch movies, which is always a bit weird. But when you don't know them. But yeah, I wouldn't have changed that. I met one of my best friends in my corridor, so I wouldn't change having that, but I wouldn't change the whole because I had a friend who also lived in the hole and it was comfort having her there from school so I could meet up with my.

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Whenever I wanted, not we never had, or at least on my end, I didn't have an expectation that we would stay close. Yeah, when I first arrived, it was just a comfort knowing she was there. Yeah. And it turned out that we stayed really good friends anyway. Yeah. So that was a comfort. And I think that kind of helped having people to distract you from the homesickness. Yeah. If I was sat in my room on my own trying to watch movies that I knew of, programs I knew you were home watching at home, that was going to help me.

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Yeah, I just found someone to distract me. If I found new shows to watch, I don't mind my own company. I was happy, sat in my room of an evening. Yeah. Doing some studying. But when you first move away, when you first meet, it's preferable to have someone to distract you. Yeah. So you kind of covered while I was going to ask and ways to overcome this. So mainly I was um, finding comfort in people that you may be know slightly, but you can probably get to know better, um, using sports teams, using societies and just sort of immersing yourself in and trying to join in, because this is where people mostly socialize.

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And if you're not a big drinker, then, like, that's OK. So, you know, more others because they I certainly felt that when I started was I felt like I was the only person in the whole university that didn't enjoy alcohol. It was like, um. But yeah.

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So you're you're definitely not going to be the only person if you're if you're the same natural and if you're finding out you're trying to find friends are going to accept about you as well. There's people yelling at you to down a pint and you don't really want to there maybe not come back to them in two years. Exactly. Um, when you moved away, this was something that just popped into my head fairly recently when I was thinking of stuff to talk with you about.

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And I thought it was pretty interesting, actually, because it was something I hadn't considered until it popped into my head. Was that when you moved to St Andrews? And also maybe a contributing factor to the homesickness was that we moved house away from bankruptcy and like 20 minutes closer into town to cater for anyone that doesn't know me too well. Um, we live in, uh, my parents own and run a guesthouse or a bed and breakfast. Um, so when you were coming back to the new house, you didn't have, like, a room for yourself?

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We had to take out a guest room. I say had to. We took out Cursus just going home. We took out a guest room and you would use that as your room whilst you were home for the holidays. So what was that like? Was a rather unsettling. Was a bit strange.

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Um. I I don't think so. I think. The fact that I didn't have a room wasn't much of a bother to me when I came back because I knew there was a room, there was a room for me and I was more focused on coming home to the people. It didn't matter the place. I think of it being the same old house, but my room had been changed into an office, OK? That would have been harder. That would have been ruined.

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I think so. I think if I didn't have my room, it would still be where my room was.

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Mine. Oh, that would be tricky. Coming home to a different building. OK. I think I wanted I was going to ask you because you moved because I moved out of bankruptcy or you moved out of 92 to when all my friends moved out of bankruptcy to go to uni. Yeah. It didn't matter that I wasn't coming home to bankruptcy because no one else was there anyway. OK, but I wondered because you moved when all your friends were still in bankruptcy, was it weird having it?

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I don't know. Different having to go back to bankruptcy? Yes, exactly. It was weird in the sense I used to, um, I had to take the bus and from because obviously it's 20 minutes away. So I had to take the bus. And whereas we used to live about, I think, ten minute walk, five minute walk marks away from our school. So that was always bizarre. And yeah, just sort of the routine of going up early, being on a bus was strange, but obviously when you get to school it's exactly the same.

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And hanging out with friends, my mom and dad, before they moved, they obviously made sure that I would be OK with moving, which was very nice of them. And they, like they said as part of moving, they would probably give me lifts. And Bankrate wouldn't just be I'd have to hop on the bus every single time I wanted to meet with my friends. They were very good and they would pretty much always run me like into bankruptcy and pick me up again before I could drive.

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So that was always I never felt too far away from my friends, particularly. Maybe one way that I feel like I slightly missed out was, um, two of my best friends. Leemon Fraser went to the gym after school, and that was something that I could well, I never really want to do because I would have to wait like a couple hours to be able to get a bus home afterwards and stuff like that, whereas they could go to the gym and sort of walk home.

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And I probably would have joined them, I think, if I was still living in bunker and maybe I would have gone to a bit of a more gym routine, which was harder for me to do. So, yeah, that's one thing that I slightly miss about or regret about maybe having to move. But apart from that, I mean, it's there was exactly the same.

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Pretty much, yeah. And I still I liked going home to the guest house, so yeah, it's a nice place, but also it's a weird dynamic to get used to because what people don't realize, like having not lived in a guest house, is that you have like it's your house, but you have random people just sort of coming and going like during the day, like nobody, because obviously guests are out and doing stuff. So it's mainly just in the evenings, in the mornings.

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But like there's so just randomness almost walking about your house, which is really weird to get used to. I got used to a fairly quick because I was living there. But when you came home, obviously you didn't really have time to get used to it because you were away university. So what was it like coming back to that sort of weird dynamic of living? It was a bit odd, yeah. I think one thing I did for the homesickness was to stay at uni for the whole semester one.

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Yeah. Made sure I didn't come home. And I remember people visited me like, yeah, we didn't just leave. You guys came down to St Andrews quite a lot, but I didn't go home. So my first time at Furin was.

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During Christmas, over Christmas. So you were close to some of it, so there was only a week or two where it was. And some people in my house. Yeah, but I think I didn't mind it, there were parts of the house that are only hours that we're in. So that's fine. I think it was mainly the fact that I wanted to come down in my pajamas and not socially acceptable. And in a business, you shouldn't be helping guests out while in your pajamas.

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Yeah. And there were times where you would I would generally wake up, get halfway down, says here, don't go. Oh, no, I'm in my pajamas, Mr. Rumbold. Yeah, I got to go. I like because the bathroom we use for showers is on the top floor and I'm on the bottom floor. So sometimes I would like woke up in my pajamas forgetting obviously both our guests and just sort of meet them halfway. But then you're like, oh yeah, but bizarre encounter.

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But yeah, it is like it's a great problem to have I suppose, and that we, we live in a very nice house, was attacked and it's been really useful, the guests that come up. Fascinating. Yeah. And our parents are just telling me about this person they chat to or that person is really cool. And also in terms of our family cohesion, like Dad used to work like two weeks away offshore every five weeks or every two weeks, often then three weeks home.

[00:33:24]

But now both of them are pretty much there all the time because they're all out together, because they work there. So it's great. And we always see our parents all the time, whereas people obviously have normal 9:00 to 5:00 jobs and don't get to see your parents as much. Truth be, I know it's also the guesthouse is given like this. People that mom meets when she's serving breakfast. Yeah. Who she then gives me the email addresses of so I can email them and ask them for career advice, because this is down in universities in England.

[00:34:02]

And as a statistician from America who was interested in what my mother told him about my course. Yeah. So yeah. Fascinated. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, it's got its perks. Definitely. Um, let's move on again slightly because you now live in Glasgow. As I mentioned, I've come down to visit you.

[00:34:26]

You just finished a masters degree in August, September.

[00:34:34]

But you quickly go into a job afterwards was a large concern of yours leading up to finishing your degree of going into the job market and just getting a job. Really? Yes. Yes, because worry.

[00:34:49]

Um, I think. I was very lucky in how I found my job, yeah, because I was lucky enough to get a sponsorship for my master's degree and part of that was the company paying for it, made sure I did a placement of the summer for my dissertation, OK? And the place that I was randomly assigned happened to be a bank that wanted to keep me on afterwards. Yeah, the words were, we'll keep you unless you punch someone.

[00:35:23]

Oh, by the way, unless I do something drastic, such as punching a member of the team, you could probably refrain yourself from damage to not punch anyone in my three months of dissertation writing, so. Yeah, so I was I was very lucky, I know you had an internship and then after so the internship, they offered you the job, you come back after you've finished in hindsight a couple of weeks off would have been preferable. Yeah.

[00:35:52]

Rather than going in two days after the dissertation handon, however, I'm not complaining because I got the job I have. I know people that were looking for months still looking. Yeah. So I'm very grateful that I've found something as quickly as I did. Yeah. And it did take some of the weight off because it is quite stressful trying to think of a job, the one you want to do and to trying to find a job in that field.

[00:36:17]

Yeah. But yeah, I think I was very lucky in the way I found this work experience.

[00:36:27]

Opportunities are pretty invaluable, aren't they, because one of my best friends, again, is spending his entire third year working at a company and he's learning so many skills and he's branching out into different sort of areas of the business and basically just learning firsthand lots and lots of things that are appropriate to his degree. And it's like really, really invaluable for when he eventually finishes his degree. But he's going to have all these skills and all these situations to talk about.

[00:37:02]

Yeah. Which are so employable. And it's the same with what you did and you got this opportunity to work there. And then once you get your foot in the door, it's much easier to make an impact. Definitely.

[00:37:14]

I think one of the things that worried me about finding a job was that I was lucky enough not to need a part time job through university. Yeah. So I, I'd done some work in the summer, but I did enough work experience or people to give me references other than academics, which is was a little worrying. Yeah. So it was good that I went into this placement and then they were either going to be my reference for a new job or they would hire me themselves.

[00:37:48]

So it was really useful in that not only do I get the experience, but even if you didn't get in the door of some kind of work, because once you have a job, you're getting another one is a lot easier. Yeah, you touched upon this slightly, but immediately going from Student Life University into a full time employment is, like you said, you maybe would have liked to break up. But what was it like in other ways, socially or.

[00:38:19]

Um. Yeah, the main thing was just wanting a break after, like Mauser's was. It was a long hours. Tanco and exams. Yes. And then a dissertation. I would have liked a bit of a holiday, but I think it was good so much that people had a holiday want or at least some of my friends that had the break. Yeah. Were still stressed about finding a job during that break. Yeah, I avoided that stress and socially, everyone was moving away after master's anyway.

[00:38:53]

I don't think me finding a job was of any consequence to know. I think those that were still hanging around waiting for jobs maybe had more free time. So I didn't I had to have nine to five job to see them in the evenings and weekends, just as I do now. So I don't know. I don't think it was socially any different, but it did help stress levels a bit of finding one, because I see well, some of my friends are struggling and it was quite stressful for them trying to find someone.

[00:39:20]

Yeah, it's also kind of weird in that you're sort of going into this job market and there's so many people with the same qualifications, same experience as you. So it's really hard to set yourself apart. So like like I said, again, having that experience and sort of jumping straight into it is probably the ideal situation. A lot of it's luck and circumstance that you can do as much with. Really painting a great picture for your listeners, but you can do quite a lot work.

[00:39:50]

And the good grades and the experiences all help the being personable in an interview. Yeah. Relating to the person that's interviewing you for a job. Yeah. Helps 100 percent and just having confidence and yes. Your qualities, knowing stuff that you're a good and good at and recognizing what is really important. It really is. So it's, it's tricky when you're trying to get maybe past the stage when everyone's CVS fairly similar. Yeah. But once you get to interviews it can get a bit easier because you're one you're then testing them.

[00:40:24]

You wanting to know if you they're a company you're going to want to work. Yeah, that's a good point. And also they're going to be getting to know the real you, not the couple of statistics you've got on TV. Yeah. That happened to match their algorithm.

[00:40:37]

So, yeah, I think the hardest part is the initial sending out. Once you pass, that is still difficult, but it gets a little bit easier.

[00:40:46]

Yeah, I recently got a lecture that was kind of like a next step sort of thing. At the end of my course, like we had a lecture and instead of learning something that we wouldn't even need in the exam, we decided to make it about what to do. Good tips that he learned from his experience of things that you can do for the rest of university and even beyond when he had some really good tips like going into and doing a Masters, but not in the field that you studied for your undergrad, you but something related to it.

[00:41:27]

Trying to learn a new language, learning, coding, just really useful stuff like that. Is this something that you ever had or if you didn't, it something that you wished you had? Yeah.

[00:41:39]

When you were telling me about it, I read reduced from within, just you were very lucky in that you sort of did what he what he suggested to do.

[00:41:48]

Yes. Somehow I managed it. It was like your going my way through exactly what he said was a good idea. Yeah. Mine was a bit of getting to the end of my undergraduate. And after thinking I was never studying and deciding I was going to miss it. Yeah. All right. One more year. What can I study? I fed up with maths now after four years, but I want something that I know I'm going to be good at.

[00:42:14]

This is where I thrive. So computer science, right. Let's go look at data. And then the place just happened to be the right course in the subjects I wanted. It was the right price and the right quality. Yeah. And I like Glasgow, so. It worked out well, yeah, but it's maybe something that should be more readily available, these tips. Yeah, or maybe they are and we're just not advertising enough or told about them enough for.

[00:42:43]

Yeah, I don't know how much Abdeen goes into the career advice. I mean. It's St. Andrews, there was a career center. Yeah, that I didn't go enough to properly use it or the one a couple of times I did, I didn't find it as useful as maybe other people did. So I don't know if. Yeah, but what the like the careers advice sort of department you always feel like now just going to tell you stuff that you already know, like what you're why are you studying.

[00:43:20]

Like why do you see yourself in five years time and you feel like they're just going to ask you this old cliche questions aren't really going to help, but you probably should give them a chance, but definitely. Yeah, but lecture for sure was extremely, extremely useful.

[00:43:37]

I think when you're looking for career advice, it's good to know what exactly you're looking for, going up to someone saying, I don't know what I want to do with my life. Yeah, that doesn't give them much leeway. And I think I think that's probably where I went wrong. And so far as I'd done some research that I hadn't given enough. One idea to myself that when I went to speak to someone, they told me, oh, look at this and that these are things I've already looked at.

[00:44:02]

Yeah, but they were OK. Why don't you apply for this job? I don't really want that job. I just don't know what I do want. Yeah. So having a better idea of.

[00:44:12]

And ruling things out and going to someone with some kind of research of these areas, I'm good at all these years I'm interested in. Do you have any companies that I could contact or what's the best way I could get into this field? Yeah. Is a bit more easy for you have to be cautious because people don't know you.

[00:44:30]

Yeah, exactly.

[00:44:31]

Um, well, that's all very good. I think we can just jump into the questions now to to and the to and the interview. Um, so what is your go to snack chocolate hobnobs.

[00:44:49]

Oh, uh, one person that everyone should follow on social media body pozzi panda on Instagram.

[00:44:58]

Uh, a guilty pleasure watching Gilmore Girls. OK, your favorite curse word. Shit.

[00:45:06]

What is a favorite quality about yourself and my intelligence and what do you want to improve about yourself?

[00:45:15]

Self-confidence. That's very good. Thank you for joining me on the screen. Very kind of you. It's been, uh, it's been a really good, um, I think productive. Yeah. This was good fun. Yeah. OK, thanks. Well, that was our conversation. I think there were a lot of lessons, unpossible advice you could take away from this chat and try yourself. And that way I think this episode was not only fun to record, but hopefully quite useful for people listening.

[00:45:45]

But thank you again for listening. And you will hear from me shortly again with another guest on another episode.