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Hey, everyone, welcome back to a new episode of a proportional response podcast. It's certainly been a while since my last episode and we're still in pandemic pandemonium. But this episode should be a nice escape into the world of Pippa Henderson. Pippa briefly shared some background about herself, such as her family and where she grew up. I then turned our attention to her university degree in languages, studying French and Spanish with the opportunity to go abroad.


While definitely I think the year abroad has been my highlight for sure. It was like this, like a holiday.


We spend the majority of the episode talking about Papa's wonderful small business called By Papa. She mentions her motivations behind starting this during the first UK lockdown with some encouragement of close friends and family.


And Mum was like, happy. You could easily make that like she's she's definitely the reason why I started. And yeah, she just is very motivational.


After listening to this episode, you will have a clear image of just how generous Papa is, most notably shown in this episode through our commitment to helping a mental health organization, donating profits from our first 50 sales.


I know it's small, but maybe if I donated some money or raised some money like that could help because I knew that there were already people struggling with mental health. Like mental health is such a big issue that everyone struggles with it from time to time.


I really enjoyed recording this episode and loved getting to know Papa, so I'm sure you will too, if you haven't already. Make sure to follow my Instagram at a proportional response. As you'll find out, I'm starting to up my game with regard to posts, so make sure to drop it a follow. And now here's my conversation with Piper Henderson.


So I'm here with Piper. How are you doing? Good, thank you. Great.


Before we jump into the questions, I thought I'd ask, how are you doing in relation to covid? I think you've just moved back to Glasgow. So how are you coping with that?


Yeah, I mean, it's been stressful and to say the least, because all my uni classes and things have been moved online and but no, it's been good. I'm glad I moved back to Glasgow. I was getting a bit fed up. Yes, definitely.


And I think it's.


Yeah, you've moved into the maybe highest tier in Scotland, but still it's so.




Again, before we jump into those questions, I just want to take a second to thank you for coming on my podcast. It's really kind of you. I think it takes quite a lot of trust. And someone that I mean, I don't particularly know you that well and you don't know me really at all. So I think it takes a lot of trust to come on my podcast and be asked questions about you uni and your wonderful little business. So thank you.


In the spirit of Thanksgiving, I suppose we're recording this on Thanksgiving for Americans. So I'm very thankful that you've agreed to come on my show.


Whites are thinking of me. No, not at all. So, yeah, like I said, I don't really know you too well. I know you from mutual friends and from those mutual friends sharing your business on Instagram. So I thought I'd start off by just asking a couple of questions about you. So tell me a little bit about yourself, maybe where you grew up, who your family members, stuff like that.


I feel like I'm not a very interesting person, but I'm well, I'm from Dundee in Scotland. And, yeah, I've just I've always lived there with my family and two sisters, one older and one younger. So I'm the middle child and my mom and my dad and I just had a very like average, normal, boring life.


That's all right.


I actually have a couple of cousins that have lived in Dundee and studied there and they loved it. So did you love growing up there or enjoy growing up in Dundee?


I mean, yeah, I do like Dundee, but I don't think I see myself there in the future. Like, OK. Yeah, or bigger some days I think. But Dundee is very up and coming and like. Yeah I did, I did like growing up there definitely.




You mentioned that rap is actually not as bad. Yeah.


I've got to say I haven't really spent too much time there myself. It's more like a travelling through to get to Edinburgh or Glasgow or something. But yeah, like I said, my cousins have both really enjoyed studying and living there. So it is a place I would like to visit and get to know a bit more. And. But you mentioned your middle child. Do you think you are sort of like a typical middle child in the. Maybe your older sister got a bit more serious treatment than your younger sister, maybe go off with some more things and you were sort of in the middle area, would you say that's accurate?


Yeah, we definitely joke about that in my family, like and I think of it like a stereotypical middle child, attention seeking thing driver. And no, I don't know.


I feel like we're all actually quite equal. My little sister is definitely the baby of the family. You get somebody with a lot. I think I am. But no, I think we're all pretty much the same.


Yeah, I'd say I would say we're pretty similar. I've got an older sister and maybe she had a bit more strict at the beginning. But on the whole, I'd say it's it's pretty, pretty even totally natural for her parents to sort of go a bit overboard with the first child and become a slightly more lenient as like a dozen. So growing up in Dundee, did you go to secondary school there? Was that where you went to school or did you go to school somewhere else?




Yeah, I went to the same school for primary and secondary and in London. Good stuff.


Did you enjoy secondary school or was it somewhere you were like, I can't wait to go to uni or college or get out of here or were you? I'm really loving school at the moment and whatever happens will happen.


Yeah, I thought I was quite lucky because I really, really liked school.


I mean, to me too, I just think I don't know, I had I always had lovely friends around me and I really like the subjects I was studying. And of course, there were days like, you don't want to go to school and you haven't done your homework or whatever.


And no, I was really sad to leave, but luckily my friendship group from school, like, we're all still super close.


So we see each other all the time.


But yeah, I like school. That's great.


Were you desperate to move away? You sort of hinted before that you'd quite like to live in a bit bigger city like Glasgow maybe, or even bigger than Glasgow. We're desperate to move away from Dundee. Would you? Were you avoiding some of Alberton Dundee universities when you were packing them?


Yeah, I didn't even apply to Dundee and I actually applied to St Andrew's as well. But then I was like, that's too close to home. And so, yeah, I was I was really excited to move to Glasgow and my older sister was there. She and a few years both me and she loved it. My cousin was there and she loved it. And I just had her like so many good things about Glasgow, so really excited to move away.


I sort of thought that that might be the case. Just from one thing I do know about you is that you study languages. I don't know the exact title of the course, but I know it's something to do with languages. So from that course you can sort of or that the decision to choose that course maybe suggests that you want to explore other cultures, other places you want to. Yeah. Really immerse yourself in different places. So it doesn't hugely surprise me that you maybe wanted to escape Aberdeen Dundee.


Sorry, they say that because I, I chose my course because I just I loved languages that were they were my favourite subject at school and I was quite good at them at school. And about the thought of doing my year abroad and my time abroad absolutely scared the life out of me. Really. Yeah. And I have to almost like, make me not choose it because I just I just can never see myself being able to do that, like, that's so scary.


But I kind of just have the mentality of being like, oh, by the time it comes down to it, I'll be fine, I'll be fluent and nervous and so I can just like ignore it, like got into my course. And then before I knew it was time to like, go abroad, I'm like, oh my God, I don't know anything. Like, it's so scary.


But yeah, I just.


Well that's great that you sort of just stuck with what you enjoyed. I think quite a lot of people just sort of look at a career path and maybe work their way back. Yeah. Which is also a good tactic. But I sort of did a similar thing to you. I also enjoyed languages, but I also really liked modern studies, which I don't know if it was the same in Dundee, but it's like a politics sociology, of course.


And I really loved that. The teachers were great and I didn't really know at all I was going to do, but I knew I like that. So I just sort of went into politics. And even now, like, I finished my politics degree and then I was like, well, that's way too broad. I don't know what to do. So I know I'm doing a Masters, but yeah, I think if someone was at school right now, I think I'd give them advice as well.


You just sort of pick something you enjoy. It might be a bit scary. It might be a bit different to what you're doing, but it's ultimately what you enjoy so much. Hopefully work out, would you agree? Yeah, 100 percent, and that's what mom and dad always said. Like, as long as you're doing something you love, then it doesn't really matter. And because I have no idea what I want to do after this, I thought by now at least I would know.


But hopefully, I don't know. It'll just work itself out. Something that I like. Yeah.


So you mentioned the broad elements of your course. Is that one of the highlights of your course or far, or which part of you struggled with the most and what have been the best parts as part of your course so far?


Well, definitely. I think the airport has been my highlight for sure.


It was like like a holiday. I don't have any work today for my mind and no some other needs. Like, I still have to do a dissertation or something when they're abroad. But for my core, it's like literally didn't have to do anything.


I, I just feel British Council, which means like you get placed in a school and you work as a language assistant and it's literally 12 hours a week and like normal.


I don't like Mondays so you can have the weekend to travel. And I just felt like I was on holiday. Like it was amazing. It was so, so, so good. So that was definitely like a highlight. And and yeah, I think just maybe this year struggling the most just because everything's online. And I didn't get to do my like term abroad in France because the French and Spanish. And so my my, my year abroad is in Spain.


And then it was much of a turnaround in France back in March, but obviously that was canceled. So like now I'm going into my final exams, not having been to France, not having spoken French, French for like a whole year before that. And so that's definitely been a struggle. But and hopefully they'll be understanding.


I'm sure they I'm sure they will take into account the sort of loss of time. Are you in your final year? You're in fourth year.


Yeah, well, I'm in fifth year because the year abroad counts. But yeah.


So you so you have like three years of studying and then you're sort of year abroad year. Is that correct. Yeah.


Two years of studying then year abroad. And then you've got another two years when you come back.


I see, I see lots of great I think. Did you do the year abroad with a visa or was completely different because I think she had a similar experience where she seemed like it was a lot of traveling. Of course you do a wee bit of work, but it really seemed like a personal sort of I don't know, you got to express yourself personal side more than just sort of staying in a school and teaching Spanish non-stop. Yeah, definitely.


So Abi and I are on the same course and we've got this lovely little friendship group and we all got placed like around Spains, which none of us were together. OK, actually, like at the beginning I was like I would have loved to have been placed with someone and live together and things and may never actually had the same internship for friends all booked. And we we found this Airbnb that we're going to live in. And it was going to be amazing.


But and but to be abroad.


And so it was actually really good that we were all placed in different places because it allowed us to travel and like see more of Spain. So it was up in the north. She was in Asturias and I was down right in the south in Andalusia. And like we tried to see each other a lot. We definitely, like, got the most out of our experience. It's travelling start, which is so good for anyone that doesn't know.


Eva has been on my podcast before. It's not just some random person where I'm speaking about. If you listen to the podcast before I interviewed her a while back, would you like to live abroad at some point? You've mentioned traveling all over Spain, maybe missing out on going to France. Would you like to live over there at some point or you still sort of want to stick to Scotland and maybe just go on there for over there for holidays and such?


I definitely want to live abroad. I think I want to when I graduate, I want to go and live in France for a bit and maybe get an internship there, like just what I missed out on because of covid. But yeah, I think the girls and I were talking about it last night and I think we'd love to go and get a flat together out there each get our own little jobs or start like a little language school together or something.


I think that would be so fun. And it definitely yes, I definitely want to live abroad. Not sure where I'll settle down.


Probably Scotland like a problem about Scotland at some point, but and I just feel like it's good to experience different cultures and stuff. So I'm living abroad. Yeah.


Look, I mean, I have family that live in. So even when I get to, like, go over there and maybe stay with them, I need to go. Obviously, you know, living there, but you get a little sense of what it's like to live there. And it's like you can just picture yourself, like strolling down to like a local cafe. And it feels like such a great, I don't know, ideal starting to have, especially when you see in films and everything, it feels like such a great thing to do.


Is there a particular place in France you'd like to live or is it just somewhere in France which anyone would take you?


Well, I've just watched I'm in Paris. I don't know if you've seen it, and I know of it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's got a lot of criticism. I know it's full of cliches and stereotypes and stuff, but it just oh my God, it just romanticizes Paris so much. I know Paris isn't like it's not always like that, but I just like that.


That's but no, I think one of my friends was in the south of France for a bit and she loved that. So maybe the south of France potentially. Or Paris. I don't know, Olivier.


So you've mentioned slightly before that you don't particularly have a desired career path. Maybe you want to start a language school with your friends. So I'm assuming there isn't a career path and you just sort of were never the degree finishes, you just sort of see what takes you from there is correct. Yeah.


Yeah, that is. That's right. It's a bit scary to think about it like that, but yeah, I have no idea what I want to do I think. I don't know, just probably graduate and just get internships, I think the more experience you have, the better you like, the more capable you are choosing. And like being in a career that you actually like. I know so many people here on a course that is going to end in the end.


A career is like you choosing to go on that course when you're in your high school, like, how do you know you're going to like that, you know, when you're 40 years old? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I probably can. I don't know. I think I want to be my own boss. So maybe just like start a business.


I think it's good to have a little flexibility as well. And I think, like you said, it's so tricky. I mean, we go through like school and you're constantly trying to narrow down the subjects to like by the time you're in the last year, there's three or four or maybe around the sort of subjects. And then you go to uni and again, you're trying to narrow it down from like all the electives and modules you pick at the beginning of first year.


And then by the time you can get to that, you're still like, well, I've no idea what to do. So it's it's a lot of the cases. It feels like you're just sort of narrowing it down until there's almost only one option left. You sort of have to do that. The decisions made for you. Yes. It's so great that you're just so pursuing what you enjoy. And I think that's a really positive and productive way to look at it.


And and speaking about that, you have sort of started your own business owner.


So so the company you or business you've started making is called Pied Piper. And I've been following it for a while now. Like I said, we have mutual friends. So they were sharing on Instagram. And then I saw and give you a follow.


And you did an Instagram Q&A sort of recently where you talked about the origins of your business and how your mom I think I'm correct in saying your mum had a jewellery business that maybe helped you start out. But just let us know sort of what prompted you to start by in the first place?


Well, it was like I never really planned on doing anything like this. And obviously, like lockdown happened back in March and my whole family were working, like my sister has just got a new job. So she was busy working. My dad was working. My little sister was on her course. And I had nothing because my last year at uni finished really early because I was obviously meant to go to France.


So I literally had nothing to do. I was so worried and and like I've always kind of had like an entrepreneurial, like mind. You can get that from a mum. Yeah. I've always been, like, thinking about ideas. I'd want to do it in the future. Like, I always been thinking like after I graduate, like. Always thinking ahead and and, yeah, it was just one day mom came through and it was one morning and she just had this box and it was all her old jewelry stuff.


And she was like, look, I'm not I just found this like I'm not obviously going to use it anytime soon. Why don't you start making jewelry? And my mom made lovely jewelry for but I think like the market, that she made jewelry for a slightly older, you know. Yeah. Like more full on pearls and string pearls and things. And so she always had a lot of pearls left and I was looking through it and I'm not too sure and I don't know if people would want that or if people even wear pearls nowadays like that is kind of something we think is a bit, you know, for older people to talk about.


Yeah, but then I thought, like my sisters from my 21st last year, they got me this necklace and it's my favorite necklace and it's just basically a tiny pearl on a gold chain. And I wear it all the time. And Mom was like, Papa, you could easily make that like she's she's definitely the reason why I started it. And yeah, she's just is very motivational. If you ever need, like, some motivation to talk, I'll just come over and get a TED talk from your mom.


And she's always full of ideas and always like trying to put ideas in other people's heads and, you know, inspiring people. And so she was just like, well, you could easily do that. Like, let's come on. Like, do you've got nothing else to do it? And I was like, you're so right. And it just started from there. So I'm all right.


So were you trying to make jewelry like you like you said about your favorite necklace? Were you trying to copy that and then maybe make it for yourself or your sisters or your mom before you started maybe thinking about selling it? Or was it always in your mind to sort of do as part of the business?


Well, I don't know.


I think I just started thinking, like, oh, it would be fun to, you know, sell this to my friends. And but I never thought it would be I first of all, didn't think it would take me as long to plan it. Like, I literally started that in March and I didn't even launch until July like I was. And I was working every day, like, OK, good thing. And I was because I know that you're perfectionist.


And when I want something to be a certain way, it has to be that way. So I was maybe like, you know, maybe what took me so long. But and yeah, I just I remember I made the first necklace just like testing it out for my sister. And then she really liked it and started working it. And I was like, OK, I get a bit more confidence. I was like, OK, maybe people, you know, like would want to buy these hopefully.


But yeah, that that necklace that my sisters got me definitely inspired me. And it's very much like my style. I like simplistic, minimalistic, you know, pretty dainty jewelry.


So wonderful, so great. You are like family members and friends around you encouraging you. It sounds like you are 100 percent fully invested in this idea until everyone around you is pretty much saying, papa, you've got to do this year. You can make that so easily or so. Well, even so, yeah, it's one because when you have that sort of network around you.


Yeah, well I think that's so important. Like Abi, I know my course when I was speaking to them about it the whole time and they were like, oh my goodness, that's so nice. I'd send them pictures like guys have just like made this. What do you think about it? Because I know that they would tell me the honest truth. Like that's nice. But I think, you know, I'm not sure people would wear that or like, you know, they would be.


Yeah, they weren't just. Yes. People. No, definitely no, and I think like I'm surrounded by people like that in my life, like I don't have anyone negative, like any negative friends or anything. So they definitely, like, give you the confidence that you need that extra push when you're not sure about something and which is really nice. All right.


We've talked a bit about you making the jewelry. What's the jewelry making process like? Did it take ages? You've talked about how you're a bit of a perfectionist. Maybe it takes quite a while to make these, for example, the bracelets. Does it take a long time or is it is it not or is it kind of easy to do now that you've been doing it for a while?


Yeah, well, yeah, it definitely took me longer at the beginning.


I think that was probably the longest process is like working out sizes and and will help me with this. But she was like, so when you're making a piece, when you're designing it, you have a recipe, you make a recipe for this particular piece and then, you know, for the different sizes, you need different lengths of things and different amounts of, you know, jump rings and things like that. So I started making these recipes and that was that took so long, like working out what lengths and different rests and stuff like that.


But yeah, I have got quicker at making them now. And I think it also depends on the piece. Like, I'm quite quick at making the earrings now and I can do that like watching Netflix or something. But the necklaces and the things that need to be measured out that that's a bit fiddly takes a bit longer, but it's not too bad.


So you can manage to do it while you're watching in Paris, you can make probably your ice cream. Yeah. Would you ever share maybe with your followers the making process? Is that something you've thought about doing or is it maybe giving away the, like you said, the recipes? Maybe they just do it themselves? I mean, I'm sure they wouldn't be able to do as well.


But is it something you've thought about sharing that making process? Yeah, because I love like I'm so nosy and I follow an Instagram. If they ever do, like behind the scenes of a photo shoot or whatever they're doing, I like I love it. So I definitely want to do it. And I was actually waiting until I moved to Glasgow because I knew we'd have this like nice white desk and like fairy lights up and stuff. Because when I was working at home, I was like in a studio that we quickly made when we realized we're all going to be stuck in the house.


And it was not very like aesthetically pleasing. So I avoided at filming one there. And then now I'm back at uni. I've just been so busy. But I definitely, definitely want to film that, except maybe after Christmas we'll see.


Um, yeah, I agree. There's there's something so alluring about the behind the scenes action of something. I don't know whether it's social media where everything seems to be like the final product edited, done and sent out, that there's something so cool about being able to creep behind the curtain and see the like the making process. You've talked about how you really like that sort of simple design and sort of classy design. You've made it so she can Allegan and you've got a really great Instagram, like it's so aesthetically pleasing.


Like, well, how was the you've talked about the plumbing process, but was part of the planning process like tailoring your sort of Instagram to sort of fit the chic sort of nature of your jewellery, because it does feel like they are sort of part of the same sort of product. Oh, thank you.


That was good to have. Yeah. And I definitely that was one thing I was really excited about at the beginning, was like making my Instagram like aesthetics.


I knew exactly what kind of vibe I wanted. And just from like people I follow on Instagram, like I like that kind of thing. And I'd scroll on Pinterest honestly for days, like went on to say, like, I just get started down the rabbit hole scrolling of all these beautiful pictures and stuff. So I definitely was excited to, you know, make that. But it was so much harder than I thought. It was like, honestly, props to anyone who does Instagram as a career because it is so stressful.


I like taking the pictures of the jewelry, like I do everything myself and the picture photographer, like the photography of the jewelry. It's just I thought it'd be so easy, like put it on a next background and take picture like, no, there's lighting, there's editing. There is like zooming it. Honestly, it's so hard. But I'm glad that it's kind of paid off. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I was like I looked at your Instagram and then I looked at my Instagram for the podcast and I was like, wow, I really have no theme here whatsoever.


It's just whatever picture I can manage to find on my camera. Roll it just so stick up there. So I'm starting to take a bit more of a BiPAP approach. Also know. And so trying to think about a bit more, me and my flatmate were trying to take pictures today and we took like half an hour just because we were like, oh, let's just change the chains of this. So like I said, it would be cool to see the behind the scenes of some of the I would be what would be called a while.


Also attracted me to your page when it was first being shared was the fact that you talked about let me get this right. The first 50 sales that you made were going to go to the Scottish Association for Mental Health.


So what prompted you to make that decision? Because it is quite a big decision. I suppose when you're making an up and coming business, you maybe want to get the money in and try and expand as quickly as possible. But we decided to take this step to help make donations for this mental health organization.


Yeah, well, for me, well, I don't know. It's never been about like like the money. Yeah. You know, I started it just as a project. Keep me busy during lockdown. Like something to do. I've done a few marketing courses in lockdown and I was just like, I want to put it into practice. Like I wasn't doing it, like, OK, I'm going to make this side hustle. I'm going to make all the money.


And and obviously, it was I was a big investment not only of my time, but I did invest like a lot of my own money and into like, you know, buying all these products, like test them out and all these jillaroo findings. And, you know, some of that. I didn't use some of them, obviously, like they weren't all good. So it was scary at the beginning, like seeing all this money go away.


And but I just thought, like, it was at the time, you know, the first lockdown. And I was feeling really nervous about the whole situation. I felt like it was a really scary time. And I know that a lot of people were struggling and obviously we were shielding as well, my family, because my little sister was on the shield. So we were taking it very, very seriously. And I wasn't like we didn't go out the house and hardly at all we I was telling the girls last night, we were literally doing laps around our garden for walks because we were too scared to go out like it was so bad.


So, yeah, I knew there were so many people struggling and I knew of like neighbors and communities doing things to help, like going shopping for older people and things like that. But I wasn't able to do any of that because obviously we were shielding and I just felt so helpless, like I'm not a key worker. I can't save lives physically, you know, like I couldn't even go and buy my neighbor groceries or anything. So I remember thinking, like, I know it's small, but maybe if I donated some money or raised some money like that could help because I knew that there were already people struggling with mental health.


Like mental health is such a big issue that everyone struggles with it from time to time. And I just think the lucked out. And I was like, this is like the end of the world.


Like so many people are going to be so, like, struggling. And so, yeah, that's why I chose a mental health charity and just decided to try and help a little bit. I know it was small compared to what a lot of people were doing things, but every little helps, I guess. Yeah. I mean, it's it's commendable. And it's you've also picked a very relevant topic, like you said. I mean, during lockdown.


I can't imagine having to stay inside my house. I mean, even today, like we're in lockdown in Glasgow. So no one is really open apart from four takeaway. And I'm just sort of studying in my room and I just like there's a local coffee shop just up the road. So I try to go there, like at least every second day or something just to get outside and, like, talk to someone new. So I can't imagine.


But just staying within your own house, I mean I mean, it's like, oh, go ahead.


Sorry we were so neurotic. Like we would get a Tesco delivery and mum was like, nobody touch this for 24 hours coronavirus.


They like food longer than 24 hours. So we literally have our food sitting there.


And it was so funny, like looking back on us, we were just so paranoid, though. Like we were so scared.


I mean, yeah. I mean, when you've got someone like me at risk, it's maybe worth feeling a bit silly for the leaving your shopping on the floor.


I found the statistic that sort of links to this from the mental health group Manja, which is an organization based in Aberdeen. And then you have quoted that the suicide rate in Aberdeen, Aberdeen, Shaun Murray, doubled between the beginning of. You know, the end of September this year compared to the same time last year, so sort of underlines just how important what you were doing was. And it's great that even though you said you can buy stuff for your neighbors, you can become a key worker, but you still found a way to help out, which is really, really wonderful to see.


So you've got Christmas coming around the corner. And I just wanted to talk you about local businesses because, of course, yours is a small local business. What importance do you think there is in shopping local instead of maybe ordering lots of stuff from Amazon at this time of year in particular, and maybe in particular because of everything we've gone through during covid?


Yeah, I think it's so important to shop local this year and I think more people are more aware of that this year and which is so good, I think because of coronavirus, obviously so many independent businesses have had to shut down or really struggling. And so it's good to just support, you know, your local businesses and try and help them through this hard time. And also, it's just bad for the environment as well.


Like instead of buying frozen indefinitely and places like Amazon and, you know, and also I saw this cool, actually. And it's like every time you buy from a small business, a real person smiles, a real person, you know, it makes someone happy. And that's so true. Like in these big organizations like Amazon, like no one notices. And but like, every time someone orders a piece from me, like I like you can see their name.


And I'm genuinely thankful, grateful to them.


And I'm like, oh, they like that. That's so nice.


And sometimes they write me a little note and by like an order detail section, I can see like, oh, this is so cute or something. Just like, oh, it just generally it makes people happy, it makes me smile and it supports them. I just think it's so important and especially this year.


Yeah. I mean the beautiful links into what we were just saying about mental health. I mean, if you're able to put a smile on someone's face in addition to getting a great maybe in your handmade product, then they'll just sort of is a cherry on top of the cake. And speaking of ordering from buy pepper Christmas, you're doing like Christmas packaging or new and you've just launched 12 days of buy pepper. Do you want to quickly speak about that?


Yes. So I actually put the idea like so long ago, I've been working on this for so, so long. But yeah, I decided to do a little Advent calendar just 12 days in the lead up to Christmas and called it twelve days of my paper. And it's basically just a mixture of some things I already saw. Like my best sellers.


I've got some new exclusive pieces that aren't even available to buy yet.


I know.


And and yeah, I just as for my Christmas packaging, I was just like, what can I do? And I sourced these little candy canes like that. I'll put them in the packaging and Christmas cards as well. Like, yes.


So Perfect is such a great idea. You talked about how you started by Pepper maybe as sort of a hobby because you had nothing to do and you're going encouragement to do it. What do you see by Pepper going in the foreseeable future? You just sort of taking each step at a time or do you have like an end goal for the end of next year what you want to do by the end of this year? What's your what's your plans? Kind of just winging it.


Yeah, because when I started that, I did not expect to still be doing it at, like, at this point. And so I'm I'm obviously grateful that I'm still doing it and I enjoy doing it, but I have no idea. Obviously, I would love to grow and expand and do more things with it. But I think right now I need to focus on my degree. Mom keeps telling me that she don't get to stress that you do it because you're doing a degree like your degree is more important than making a bracelet.


And it was just like, no, it's not. I don't think she's right. And so I think maybe after I graduate and depending on where I am, I'd like to properly focus on it, maybe start my own website. And right now I'm selling on Monday, which is being great. So, so, so good. But at least on my own website, and grow it a little bit more. Maybe get a few employees. Who knows.


Who knows.


So this last question about by Papà is purely for my benefit. It's I used to wear a lot of bracelets myself, and I love your sort of simplistic design and that's great. But for the last 12 years or a couple of years, I haven't worn any. So have you ever thought about doing jewelry targeted at men, or is that just not enough demand for. Am I the only person that's demanding you're actually not.


You're absolutely not. So obviously, when I started this, my I never really thought that guys would be interested in it because it's just my vibe is just so dainty. And I was just I don't know. That is something like guys would be interested in, obviously, and available to everyone, like anyone can buy it.


But I've actually had a few people, a few of my guy friends say, like, would you think about doing anything slightly more masculine or like aimed at guys and like and I hadn't thought about it before, but I definitely want to and I just need to, you know, put my creative thinking on and design some things.


But yeah, definitely want to talk like, well, I'll keep an eye out for you and. Yeah, please do. Please do.


I've had a great time speaking with you, but I do have a last couple of questions. I try and ask every single guest at the end of these episodes so you've not got too much longer. So the first one is, do you have a go to snack, like go to snack?


And yeah, I say probably an apple with peanut butter on it. The process. I haven't heard that before. I was so obsessed. But my sister laughs at me because I should take like one half and I only half of it.


So I was.


Are you stupid if I move like a half eaten in case you hadn't lived together for so long, you know, Daschle, who just eats half an iPhone, me and half an Apple and peanut butter.


It's my favorite thing right now.


OK, just one person or page that everyone should follow on social media. I've got a sneaky feeling I know this might be or something else, OK?


Because I really struggle with this question. Like, I don't know.


I thought you were just going to say bye, papa, but I was like, so, yeah, I thought you were going to do this where you plug the iPad, but everyone should follow it.


I'm actually so close to a thousand followers, which is.


Oh right. And so everyone should follow basketball. But because I've spoken a lot about mental health today, I actually recently found a page. I'm on Instagram. He's called Ben West and he's really good. He's very, like, informative about all things mental health. And he's campaigning right now for there to be more education around mental health. And it's just really interesting, everything he posts about it, like the statistics and everything. And he's he's funny.


Like, it gives good advice for people who are struggling things. So I definitely say follow him. If you're interested in more mental health kind of things, go ahead.


Do you have a guilty pleasure that you're willing to share?


Oh, my God, my guilty pleasure. I feel like right now I've got no guilty pleasure. I've become a strictly fan I'd never seen before. And I love it. Like, I don't know why I never watched it before, but our family, my family is now a strictly family.


And I just love watching on a Saturday night when you're preaching to the choir, because my family is a massive household. So I've grown up with. Yeah, my family watch every Saturday, so this is probably like the last couple of years have been the first year and in a while I haven't like sat down and watched it with my family. So, yeah, it's my mum still tells me what's happening, though, even though I don't know anyone in it, she's still telling me like who went out and.


Yeah. So I can relate to that. What is your favorite curse word. You have a favorite curse word.


Oh, I love it. Yeah. Go ahead. Well, OK, I don't say this, but this just came to me right now. My mom recently. She's so funny. So in lock down like and she'd be going around the house, whatever. And she just we'd never heard her say this word before ever.


But when something went wrong she'd go shipmen like I don't know why, but we found that so funny. So I don't say that. But that just popped into my head.


OK, but I haven't heard that one before, so it's always good to get you one. I won't try that out when I get annoyed. Yeah. What is your favorite quality you have about yourself? I hate myself. Yeah, that's really hard, and I'd like to think I'm kind of thing. And ever since I was little, that's like the one thing that mum and dad have stressed is to be kind. And I'm really lucky because at school, I mean, I wasn't the smartest person ever and my mom and dad didn't really care about Mark.


So grades, whatever, they just you know, they wanted us to be kind. And I think it's so, so important. And so, yeah, I like to think I'm kind.


I recently saw a quote sort of like relates to that and it's kind and forgiving to yourself as you are to the people you love.


And I think that's a really nice message around kindness that I recently saw. So it's just stuck in my head. But finally, what's one thing you'd like to improve about yourself?


And gosh, you could get questioned like Tom Cruise.


And I think I would like to stop being such an over thinker.


And I tend to overanalyze things a lot in my head, like I'll go to bed and I'll be falling asleep. And then suddenly I'm thinking of something I did embarrassing. And that was embarrassing like two years ago.


I think about like, why am I to to myself, nobody cares. So I'd like to stop overthinking about things and just not care as much.


Maybe overthinking is part and parcel of trying to be a perfectionist in some ways and chill out, I think.


Well, yeah. I want to thank you again for coming on the podcast. I'm not sure whether it's like a byproduct of coronavirus, but I feel like seeing and speaking to someone new is like actually a bit of an adrenaline rush. Like the only person I speak to is like that guy in the coffee shop I go to every now and again. So. So, yeah, it's great to see and meet new people and yeah, it was lovely speaking to you.


So thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.


I really enjoyed it. So that was our conversation. Make sure you followed by Pepper.


That's why PPA on Instagram share the episode with your friends and hopefully it won't be as long until the next episode.