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What is ovarian cancer, what causes ovarian cancer, use of talc, baby powder? What as the CEO of Johnson and Johnson?


There's no causation between Tauke baby powder and ovarian cancer. Are you going to take it off the market? No, we're not. I said I'll see you in court in September.


Verified dust up is out.


Now listen and stitcher Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Take a deep breath and dive into another season of LeVar Burton reads out now LeVar Burton reads is just that. It's me reading short fiction aloud with some soundscapes and music. I read stories by your favorite authors like Neil Gaiman and Kurt Vonnegut, but I really enjoy introducing you to your next favorite author. You can start listening to season seven of LeVar Burton reads right now in Stitcher, Apple podcasts or wherever it is you get your listen on.


Hey there, before we begin the show today, I just want to let you know a couple of things first. Next week, we won't be dropping a new episode of our show or anything else in our feed. It'll be an off week. We're working hard on the last couple of episodes of all-American Season one, and we can't wait for you to hear them. We'll be back with Episode nine on November 5th. And the second thing we want to hear from you, we're looking for some great ideas for what athlete or event in sports history we should cover next season.


Send us a note to all-American at Stitcher Dotcom. Thanks.


Previously on All American Morning Ableist Immediately, and the VIP in her life is Tiger Woods.


I don't think any of us would want our private lives spied on that fashion. So this is what you did with being Tiger Woods. He was supposed to be different, special and grand. He is just a guy who is a brilliant golfer and not God.


Good morning and thank you for joining me. Many of you in this room are my friends. Many in this room know me. Many of you have cheered for me or you worked with me or you supported me. Now, every one of you has good reason to be critical of me.


On February 19th, 2010, Tiger Woods stood behind a podium. He was dressed in a dark suit and open collared shirt. Behind him was a blue curtain, and in front of him was a crowd of cameras and reporters. Tiger was ready finally to break his months long silence on live TV.


I want to say to each of you simply and directly. I am deeply sorry for my irresponsible and selfish behavior I engaged in. I know people want to find out how I could be so selfish and so foolish. People want to know how I could have done these things to my wife feeling and to my children. And while I have always tried to be a private person, there are some things I want to say.


The nation was hanging on Tiger's every word. The stock market even slowed that morning as traders tuned in.


Tiger's apology went on for about 14 minutes. He acknowledged many of the people he hurt and said he was the one to blame for his actions. Tiger also defended his family.


Some people have speculated that Elin somehow hurt or attacked me on Thanksgiving night. It angers me that people would fabricate a story like that. Elin never hit me that night or any other night. There has never been an episode of domestic violence in our marriage ever. My behavior doesn't make it right for the media to follow my two and a half year old daughter to school and report the school's location. They staked out my wife and they pursued my mom, whatever my wrongdoings.


For the sake of my family. Please leave my wife and kids alone. Before the speech was over, Tiger Woods had one more request. Finally, there are many people in this room and there are many people at home who believed in me today, I want to ask for your help. I asked you to find room in your heart.


To one day believe in me again, Tiger walked off stage and hugged his mother for several seconds, no more prepared remarks, no questions from the audience. That was it.


All right. I'm Jordan Bell and this is all American from Stitcher Season one, Tiger.


Albert, hello. Hey, Jordan. So Tiger's life was totally upended in the wake of his car crash in November 2009. Right. As we talked about last episode, during this period, more than a dozen women came forward about having affairs with Tiger. And though the press churned out story after story about his misdeeds, Tiger waited nearly three months to face the public.


Yeah. So today we're going to talk about Tiger's apology, why it may have taken him so long to offer it and how it was received. And we're diving into a long stretch of years where Tiger hit some really serious lows, so much so that people started to write him off.


This is episode eight, The Lost Years. I think a press conference and an on camera statement was absolutely, absolutely necessary, given I think the severity and the weight of the situation. Right. Like people needed to see him. This is Judy Smith.


She's the president and CEO of Smith and Company.


Her firm specializes in crisis management, helping people deal with issues that could really harm their reputation.


And Judy has had a lot of high profile clients over the years, everyone from Monica Lewinsky to Angelina Jolie.


And we went to Judy for her take on Tiger scandal, because when it comes to scandals, well, Judy's kind of a big deal. In Washington, D.C., if a scandal is about to break, this is the woman who will make it disappear.


That's right. Her career inspired the ABC television series Scandal.


I trust my gut and my gut is what? No, I have a wrong. She's the real life Olivia Pope. She is. And even though she doesn't drag dead bodies around, Judy's a natural fixer in situations where others might panic.


She thrives. And she said Tiger scandal was one she'll never forget.


The thing that I remember about it was it was this intense sort of media frenzy. What really struck me about all of that was it was itself. It felt familiar because it was an American story. You know, it was it was someone who had been put up on a pedestal. But when you think about Tiger Woods, I mean, he is golf.


One thing we were eager to ask Judy about was what she made of Tiger's initial silence. Remember, before his press conference, Tiger had only posted a few written statements on his website as the scandal progressed that at least initially denied the affairs altogether.


It was clear by his denials that he was posting on his site. He was not ready to speak the truth. And so you've got to be ready to own it. If you're not, it's not going to do any good. But isn't it also important in terms of getting out with the apology and kind of facing the music?


Oh, speed, of course, is certainly very important, and particularly given the culture that we live in now. Right. But you want to make sure that you have the facts. You want to make sure that you thought of all the ramifications and you have to deliver it in a way where you where you actually need it.


You've got to mean it, because if you're Tiger Woods, a lot of people are watching and feel like they are owed an apology.


Tiger scandal affected so many people, his family, his fans, his business partners and shareholders at Nike, Gatorade and other sponsors who, according to one study, lost up to 12 billion dollars in the immediate aftermath of the scandal. Yikes. And, Judy, explain to us that by waiting to say sorry, Tiger was able to offer more than just an apology to these different stakeholders. He should have been working on himself.


It's hard to admit that I need help, but I do. For forty five days from the end of December to early February, I was in inpatient therapy receiving guidance for the issues I'm facing. I have a long way to go, but I've taken my first steps in the right direction.


He was able to communicate that to the public in a way that the public said, OK, he's trying. Yeah, he's getting some therapy. He's he's he's trying and he understands that his actions are the most important thing. And I tell you another thing to this that you want to consider when you are talking about that first step in making an apology. And I think oftentimes people will lose sight over this. You have to be in that mental headspace where you're actually there.


Right, because it will come across totally wrong if you do it when you're not emotionally ready for it. To me, when I watch Tiger's apology, he does seem ready. It looks like this was a hard thing to do, which comes across as sincere.


Yeah, he looks nervous in the video. He stumbles over his words. But I remember watching this and feeling that really for the first time, Tiger was revealing some emotional vulnerability, the fact that you got up.


That you did that and that you were able to get some of your key points across, that's important. So, you know, I think any apology people go into, you just have to know that you just want people to know that you are sorry. And everybody's going to comment on ways in which that apology was delivered. You can't you can't get around that otherwise and that commentators wouldn't have anything to talk about. Right.


Media talking heads did, of course, have plenty to say about Tiger's apology.


How do you think Tiger did in his apology? How would you grade him and why? I look at him in a minus. It was generally accepted. All of his remarks, though, there are concerns remaining.


He could have said all of those things without the anger. You know, I'm going to surprise you. I think I'm the only person on this panel that actually agrees with Tiger to some extent about this.


Can he really get away with not taking a single question? What did you think?


It was a huge disappointment, a huge disappointment, even though these heartaches are kind of all over the place and feel a bit dramatic in hindsight. I also get it. Tiger was a cultural icon, so his downfall was a huge loss and a lot to process.


Everyone was seeing him in a different, much harsher light.


Yeah. And what stuck with me isn't even anything Tiger said.


But what he did right after he spoke, that image of him going over and hugging his mom to the whole thing was just so sad and awful for everyone. It felt like a funeral. Yeah. We would never get to see the untarnished priest scandal. Tiger Woods again, that version of Tiger, he was gone. Tiger, what's the difference between the man who left Augusta National a year ago and the one who's about to return? A lot has transpired in my life.


A lot of ugly things have happened, things that I've done, some pretty bad things in my life and all came to a head. But now, after treatment, going for inpatient treatment for forty five days and more outpatient treatment, I'm getting back to my old roots.


This is Tiger talking with ESPN's Tom Rinaldi in late March 2010 in one of his first post scandal interviews. Tiger had recently announced he'd be playing in the Masters, his first major tournament since the scandal broke.


Given all that's happened. What's your measure of success at Augusta?


While playing is one thing. I'm excited to get back and play. I'm excited to get to see the guys again. I really missed a lot of my friends out there. I miss competing, but still I still have a lot more treatment to do. And just because I'm playing doesn't mean I'm gonna stop going to treatment. What reception are you expecting from fans? I don't know. I don't know. I'm a little nervous about that. And to be honest with you.


And that's how much do you care? It would be nice to to hear a couple claps here. There.


It's kind of unbelievable to hear Tiger in this interview nervously hoping for a couple claps at Augusta. When you think about Tiger on the golf course, it's all fist pumps and roaring crowds. But this version of him is so subdued, he seems humbled. Yeah.


And so much more uncertain.


More human, really.


Tiger may have been eager to return the focus to his game, but not everyone is ready to move on. In fact, that Masters weekend brought many fresh reminders of Tiger's troubles.


Yeah, for starters, Billy Payne, then the chairman of Augusta National USA's annual Pre Masters News conference to deliver some pretty stinging remarks. The New York Times called it, quote, a mean spirited lecture about the private life of Tiger Woods.


It is not simply the degree of his conduct that is so egregious here. It is the fact that he disappointed all of us and more importantly, our kids and our grandkids. Our hero did not live up to the expectations of the role model we saw for our children.


Yeah, Billy Payne laid it on pretty thick.


Then that same Masters weekend, the National Enquirer published a story that detailed yet another tiger extramarital affair, this time with his 21 year old neighbor.


Yikes. Also, during the tournament, Nike aired a new commercial addressing Tiger's mistakes. It's a black and white 30 second spot where Tiger just stares directly into the camera while his dad's voice plays in the background.


Tiger, I am more prone to be inquisitive, to promote discussion. I want to find out what your thinking was. I want to find out what your feelings are. And did you learn anything?


Remember, Earl had died years earlier, but this ad made it seem like he was talking to Tiger from beyond the grave.


Yeah, Nike took some very creative license and using this old tape of Earl from a 2004 documentary. Right.


This was seemingly their attempt to reframe Tiger's public image, insinuating that he'd simply lost his way without his father.


But a lot of people found the ad to be strange and kind of creepy.


Yeah, I mean, it is creepy, but Nike was one of the few sponsors who didn't cut ties with Tiger during this time. And they were clearly grappling now with how to sell this longtime face of their brand. But despite being put under the microscope that weekend, Tiger did well at the Masters, he was actually in contention until the final round when he kind of unraveled on the 14th hole, missing a pot and then a short tapan shot. Oh, goodness.


And that even happens to Tiger Woods. Tiger ended up finishing fourth.


Tiger, you know, best I can sum it up. You battled all week long your first week back. You clearly didn't have your game under control, as you normally do. But after such a long and difficult absence from the game, can you put this week in perspective for us? For you? Yeah. Finished fourth. Not what I wanted.


This is Tiger in a post tournament interview with Peter Costas discussing his performance, wanted to win this tournament.


And that's a week on. And I kept hitting the ball worse. I had better on Friday, but after that it was not very good. So you're not going to use a different measuring stick to measure your performance this week. You're going to use your normal measuring stick of I didn't win, therefore I'm not happy. Well, I entered this event and how in our events to win and I didn't get it done.


Tiger clearly wasn't happy with fourth place, but it was honestly a pretty impressive performance, especially when you consider the heaps of scrutiny he was playing through.


Exactly. Tiger's first post scandal tournament made it seem like he could very well continue racking up championships or at least keep getting close.


But in the years that followed, Tiger's life was instead dominated by losses of all kinds. The worst, or at least much of the worst, was yet to come. All American is brought to you by Hello, fresh, get fresh, pre measured ingredients and mouthwatering seasonal recipes delivered right to your door with Hello Fresh America's number one meal kit. Hello, Fresh lets you skip those trips to the grocery store and makes home cooking easy, fun and affordable.


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Would you make well, the beef bulgogi Giebel and the pork chops were a huge hit with Leo who is a very, very hard six year old to please.


OK, so that was amazing with back to school, back to work. I mean we just have no time anymore. To do anything to have these easy recipes is amazing.


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That's hello. Fresh Dotcom Tiger 80 and code tiger eighty for a total of eighty dollars off across five boxes including free shipping on your first box. Additional restrictions apply. Please visit. Hello Fresh Dotcom for more details. If you follow the narrative, the spine of the book, the way that we wrote it, you can see the car essentially going to go off the cliff and his life just gets so complicated. And and he's living multiple lives at that point in time that it's only a matter of time before something happens.


This is Armen Keteyian. He's the longtime journalist. He's been a network television correspondent for more than 30 years. And he's also written several best selling books, including the 2018 book Tiger Woods.


And while there have been plenty of books written about Tiger, this one is like the Tiger Woods Bible.


Yeah, we've mentioned it more than a few times on this show already.


Yeah, my copy is completely marked up and stuffed with Post-it, and that's probably a bunch of sticky notes because this book is over 400 pages.


Yeah. Arman and his co-author, Jeff Benedict, they spent years on the book. They interviewed over 250 people in Tiger's life.


But unsurprisingly, Tiger himself declined to participate in the book, by the way. Now, it's probably a good time to mention we reached out to Tiger's team repeatedly these last few months asking to interview him for this show and, well, no luck.


Nope, not yet anyways. Still, we were both pretty psyched to get to talk to Arman, a true top tier Tiger biographer. He explained to us that he and Jeff Benedict decided to write the book around 2015 at one of the low points of Tiger's career.


Right. And with Armin's help, we're going to explore a few key areas where Tiger kind of hit rock bottom.


Yeah, starting with his personal life.


It is official. Now, Tiger Woods and his now ex-wife are divorced. They dissolve their marriage of nearly six years on Monday, ending nine months of speculation and rumor sparked, of course, by that now infamous car crash nine months ago.


That was ABC News anchor David Muir with a top story on August 24, 2010, Tiger and Ellen's divorce.


The separation wasn't a huge shock to anyone who'd been following the story, though, for a while it did look like maybe Tiger could save his marriage.


After the car crash, he spent months receiving treatment for sex addiction at a world renowned facility in Mississippi.


And Arman did a lot of deep reporting to understand sex addiction. He actually spent time talking to a sex addiction therapist named Bart Mandel in New York City.


And we laugh about it because I've been married to my wife's dad for 40 years to the point where I was going into these meetings with Bart. And I would be like having these two hour meetings with a sex therapist in New York City. And my wife would be like, Really? You're going back to see him again? And what, you have a two hour meeting this time? You know, you can laugh about stuff like that.


But for Tiger and Elin, it wasn't so funny.


Their divorce settlement granted Elin one hundred million dollars and shared custody of their two children, both under the age of four. But it wasn't just Tiger's family life that was breaking down. His body was, too. Yes. And when it comes to Tiger's physical issues, there's a lot to unpack. I mean, just looking at clips of Tiger through the years, it's kind of startling to see how much Tiger's body changed. Yeah, by the mid-aughts, he'd packed on twenty extra pounds of pure muscle and had kind of an intimidating physique.


He was doing these intense workouts that were not typical for golfers, but also even more radical training that included workouts with the Navy SEALs. Whoa. Seriously, he began training with the SEALs shortly after Earl's death and their workouts involve jogging in combat boots and a weighted vest, parachuting even urban warfare exercises. At one point, Tiger Woods even shot with a rubber bullet. His swing coach at the time was really concerned about the harm this would do to Tiger's golf career.


But Tiger being Tiger, he was determined to push through in 2008. He even played and won the U.S. Open on, get this, a broken leg. Yeah, that was incredible.


But Tiger was in his thirties by this point and playing through the pain, what's becoming unsustainable. He also was dealing with ongoing back issues. And around this time, Tiger sought treatment from a controversial Canadian doctor named Anthony Galea, controversial to the point where he was the subject. Of an FBI criminal investigation in 2009, Dr. Galea was ultimately found guilty of smuggling drugs into the U.S., including human growth hormone. Right. Dr. Galea told The New York Times that he was connected to Tiger through his agents who were alarmed by how slowly Tiger was recovering from a knee surgery.


The article also reported that Glazyev flew to Tiger's Florida home several times to treat him.


And when his connection to Dr. Galea was revealed, Tiger naturally faced questions about whether he'd been treated with performance enhancing drugs or PEDs had done a lot of reporting on steroids and performance enhancing drugs.


Dating back to my days of testimony in the mid 80s when Armon started working on the book about Tiger. He knew he'd have to look into the rumors. To be clear, Tiger has never been suspended for PEDs. But fairly or not, the question has clung to him. In fact, Atassi, we did an anonymous poll of pro players and 25 percent thought he'd used PEDs.




So a good chunk of PGA players thought Tiger was cheating. But what about Tiger's fans? Do they care?


Yeah, I mean, the thing about PEDs is that many sports fans don't actually care if their heroes use them. But on the other hand, if Tiger was doping to help recover between wins, this would still change the way we see his accomplishments. So for the book, Amen spent years digging into the question, if you went there, you had to be absolutely bulletproof.


And I never found that smoking gun.


Arman didn't find any proof of Tiger using PEDs, but he did speak to Tiger's primary care physician, Dr. Mark Lindsay, and he got Dr. Lindsay to issue the only official statement about Tiger and use.


You know, it's essentially an affidavit. It's a signed affidavit that Mark is on the record and categorically denies that Tiger's ever used performance enhancing drugs.


And were you surprised that you got the declaration? Yes, I was.


I think the statement that we got to mark energy is extraordinary because it's the first and only time I've ever seen anybody in Tiger's inner circle go on the record.


That statement is probably going to be the final word when it comes to Tiger and PEDs.


Which brings us to the next thing I want to talk about Tiger's golf performance during his so-called lost years. Right. 2009 was a clear demarcation in Tiger's golf career in the decade after his crash. Tiger won a few PGA tournaments here and there, but his days of winning major after major were history. Tiger found himself in an almost 10 year drought of no major championship wins. All of a sudden, it felt like Tiger's career was done.


This guy ever win another major? I don't think so. I don't think so. I hope so, because I root for Tiger. I truly, truly do. I'm just pointing out what happened. I don't believe in them anymore.


That was Stephen A. Smith talking to Mollie Karriem on ESPN. And he wasn't the only one talking about Tiger like he was washed up.


Far from it. Here's commentator Brandel Chamblee on the Dan Patrick Show.


Tiger's competitive career is over. Yes. Competitive? Yes, I think so, you know, his playing career. It's the it's the perfect storm of things to rob you of your game, you know, a bad back, a change, a golf swing, problems with your short game, big problems with your short game. Those are competitive things. And that's the trifecta of things to rob you of your career in 2017.


Tiger didn't compete in any major tournaments and off the course, he did even more damage to his reputation.


OK, sir, what I want you to do is go and place your hands on your back, OK? I'm placing you under arrest for suspicion of driving under the influence. OK, do you have anything on you that's going to help me pick me, stick me or cut me off? You don't know.


This is footage of Tiger's DUI arrest in Jupiter, Florida, over Memorial Day weekend in 2017. Police found Tiger pulled over on the side of the road with his eyes shut and the engine running.


Take a listen. You know how you got to the point where you're now. You have no clue. Have you taken any medication today? What would you take? Tiger was found to have a cocktail of prescription drugs in his system.


This whole incident is just so sad. Tiger's caught in yet another embarrassing screw up. This police footage went viral, by the way. The mug shot from that night went viral, too. And Tiger, he just looks awful. His eyes seem glazed over. The mug shot became a meme and there were even T-shirts and posters and coffee mugs made of it after that incident in May.


And we know the book is coming out in March of 18 and we don't have an ending. And we're not we're not sure where this is going. Amen.


And Jeff were wrapping up their book the same year Tiger's DUI made the news when they started writing the book a few years before they knew it might not wind up with a happy ending. But they also didn't imagine this.


I would write them these these the last three or four paragraphs of the book, these projected endings, and they just kept getting darker and darker. I have to go to have Tiger standing over Earl's unmarked grave, looking down at the grave, you know, saying this is what this is how it ends, you know.


But in early 2018, Tiger was planning to play again in a tournament at Torrey Pines. It's a golf course in San Diego, California. And it's also where Tiger had won his last major ten years earlier. So Armin's editor told him to go to Torrey Pines. Maybe it would help with the ending of the book. Ahmann came away from the tournament. Surprised.


I saw something I hadn't seen in three years with him in that in that moment in time. And I was like, oh, my God. I think he's just he's more appreciative. He's more human. He's more engaged. He's he's communicating with fans. There's a police officer out there, Deborah Danly, who's been Tiger's personal security officer at Torrey Pines for 20 years. And I saw dad and I said I said, how's he doing? And she goes, he came up to me and gave me a hug and said, How are you doing, Dad?


He hasn't done that in 20 years.


You know, to me, Tiger wasn't just warm and engaged off the course.


He was on as a player that weekend after his scandals and divorce, after his injuries and fraught recovery, and after a decade of losing at 42 years old, Tiger showed everyone that he was still right there.


Amen ends the book on a note of actual hope. In his last line, he calls Tiger a changed man, quote, He stood poised to show his children and a fresh generation of golf pros and fans just what a living legend looks like. And I wrote those lines, and when I wrote him, I thought, oh, that's going to be I think that that could be pretty good. You know, I think that's going to work.


But little did know just how much higher Tiger would still climb next time on All American.


Will this be the day that as recent as just two years ago, no one ever thought this would happen again? Tiger with a major. all-American is a production from Stitcher. This episode was written, reported and produced by me, Jordan Bell. Janay Palmer is our story editor. Abigail Cheal is our senior producer. Our executive producers are Daisy Rozario and Chris Bhanot.


Casey Holford is our mix engineer who also wrote our supercool theme music special, thanks to Nick Duli for helping cut our tape and to Kelvyn Bias for fact checking our scripts. Remember, we want to hear from you. Send us your feedback and your ideas for who we should cover next season to all-American at Stitcher dot com. And if you like all American, please read, review and subscribe to the show wherever you listen.


Thanks. What did he say is the outline was like? Oh, he said a hundred pages and I was like, oh, yeah, like 250 years ago while I was like, Dog, that's not an outline stitcher.