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Hello and welcome to and that's why we drink beer.


You know, I was unhelpful. No, I am Christine. And today I'm wearing my hat last week and was wearing their hat from our friend Lizzie. Which year says pantless burrito.


But also everybody comes in like, who's going to tell em that that actually means ass and like donkey in Spanish, which I was like, that's a good point, because, like, Burrard means I mean, I think I know what it means, but giving up defenseless asshole, OK, that actually fits a lot better.


I literally am not wearing pants right now just so. Yeah. I mean I didn't think you were and I'd be concerned and I am Buhrow so.


Yeah, I'm not. Who's shocked. You're a burrito. What about your hat.


So I'm wearing my hat which is surfer Rojo which I remember when I, when I read it I said, oh, it sounds like I'm on my period. Like I'm surfing the red wave.


And Lizzie literally put a little clip out of someone surfing on a menstrual pad like an earlier hysterical, hysterical.


They are calling it a clipart, by the way, because there's no way that was a clip.


OK, so before you got on, even I were chatting and I was like, there's no way like Microsoft put this in there, clipart like expansion. So I don't know, like how either she has.


And then I was like, maybe it's a hidden skill, as he has, of like creating really strange clipart, which I feel like that's a really important skill to to it's one of those skills like you don't know how powerful you are until someone desperately needs you.


And yes, until until you have a really sudden use for the skill that you've been that next time we need to like embroider hats with weird logos, we're going to have to hire her to be like like a little designer or something, but which actually knowing us will probably happen sooner than we think.


I'm going to have to use her for my escapers one day and be like, I'm going to need someone surfing a maxi pad, please. Thank you.


Well, I've got that already. You can borrow my hat. So I'm very pleased about this. I can just wear this to signal to everyone that I am on the rag, as they say, as well as offensive people.


So, I mean, that is a probably a nice indicator for others. Just just so they know, just like, oh, you need extra chocolate today.


Step back is what it says. And I'll listen, by the way. So you will.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, I am. Hello. Why do you drink this week? A lot of people were like, oh, it was so nostalgic for you to say that last week. So I'm going to try to bring us back to our roots.


And what do you drink and why do you say I drink water, which, by the way, they're not a sponsor of ours. But if you sure would like to be water. No, I'm sorry, but the cup that I'm drinking out of is a silly pint. I fucking love them. So what's that? It's like giggly. Yeah. You have them. I, I know you have them because I gave them to you for your bachelorette party so.


Oh yes I do.


That's right. Yeah. Definitely not in my cabinet yet. No. They're the if you don't know silly. Silly by the way. But they're, they're the silicone cups so if you drop them they don't break and all that.


I don't think you ever gave me those for my bachelorette party. Huh. Because we had a solo.


I'm like I definitely would not if they were the pink one. They were the pink ones. They were definitely your old kimono. I have little plastic ones that say no. Now they have plastic ones that say Bridel something about bridal party and then I'm the bride, but they're plastic.


Then you want cheap cheapo on by yourself.


You Philipines that because I'm on my way with with a purchase for you. Yeah.


I'm like I've, I've never even held one of those. I don't I think I would remember, you know. Well they also make wine glass ones. So like it's oh so like if you drop them they don't shout, it's literally just silicone. So it's all wiggly.


Wagley but I literally just went into a recesses of my brain to look at the photos from that bachelor party. I was like, Solok up. Solok up. Yeah.


No, I don't think OK, don't get yourself on them because it'll be a future president for me. But you can also get like your own designs on them. So this one's from Fredricksburg. That's very cute. But yeah. So anyway, they also have glow in the dark ones, which I have like three of them in my Cowburn course you do. They really glow.


You probably bought them for me and then kept them is what I'm imagining happened. That could be it. But anyway, I'm drinking water out of a silly pint. And why do I drink? Well, because I texted you a few things last night and in the middle of.


Let me let me pretend like you didn't say that because I want to actually preface I didn't know if this was going to be part of this segment, but it could be. It could be. Everybody just stop listening to. Hey, I've been wondering, do you have an idea for a creepy coach, yeah, or creepy coach, creepy guy, you know, creepy. Yeah, I do know. Definitely. You do know what I texted Chrissy in the middle of the night and I was like, next time we're speaking, let me know all about.


Ask me about four, 23 a month.


Ask me on the show tomorrow about my idea for a capital C creepy capital C code. You know what. And I said, OK.


Also before that I was going to say, the reason why I drink is the other thing I texted you, which is I'm 100 percent sure that I am in love with Teyana Paris, OK, because that actually came in a weird time because I have a new love too, that I'm like, actually really, really, really, really, really sweating because it shoots up.


Yes. That is, you know, will you tell yours first? I don't want to.


I don't want to. OK. Well, if anyone's watching one division, the second I laid eyes on Teyana, Paris, I was like, oh, I'm in trouble, especially when I can.


I laid eyes. I went, oh, my gosh. Oh, I said, I sent Christine a plethora of photos of C out of Paris last night. So that's how she is unmatched. And also the the wild part is I started one division. Ninety percent to Sterrett Lizzie Olsen the whole time and now I've got two people to look at. Oh my goodness. But no, I'm beautiful. I'm in love with her if you don't know yet.


She's the new Captain Marvel, which is ironic because I just broke up with Brie Larson in my mind and now I'm in love with the new Captain Marvel. So you just have a thing for the Cape.


Neither of them have capes. That's the craziest part I like. I just make up bullshit about. I actually kind of read that is like a like the trope of like, oh, the Cape a.k.a. super. You have a thing for the superheroes like superheroes. Yeah, well you do but yes, I guess out with the old in with the new sorry mystery. But Tiana paresis.


My new love this picture, she can't be silent.


I think we finally are just like smitten with one of the same people and I don't even know who she is. She could punch me in the face and I'd say, thank you. Can I have some more.


Sorry, who who who are you in love with. OK, this is like, OK, tell me. I'm going to tell you. Is it me. No go.


Yeah. This place is packing up his belongings. Speak.


I'll get my plane ticket ready. Finally we can, we can announce it.


No. Natalie Morales. Natalie Morales.


I don't know that it was who she I what she.


I'm like her and so I only know her from so she might recognize her. Oh I kind of recognize her.


She was in God. It's a Netflix show that I watched a while ago.


And then I watched it again because I was like smitten with her. Dude, she's I girl I'm usually attracted to men, but I was watching this and going like she's she's got a Rosario Dawson vibe to her, like, yes, yes.


Or Yeah, yeah, yeah. I should be grateful.


It's been a long time since I've been like really, really actually aggressively smitten with somebody. I was like looking at her Instagram like, oh my God, it's it's a problem.


I had to stop looking at her Instagram because I was like, this is really ridiculous.


Like you're married and it's really convenient. That Blaze just started actually listening to the podcast for the first time in three years.


So this is going to be a sense that his Spidey senses were like, what is good? But I'm pretty sure I already told him this because I couldn't stop talking about it.


But, man, I'm I, I it's I have a I have a man crush right now, which, like, it's a toxic one because like he's like personality wise, I don't know if I vibe with it, but we've been watching a lot of below deck and there's a chef on there named Adam who's just a cutie pie. He's just a kitty. And but so we've been watching a lot of blood, Jack and I, outloud. So, like, I get it, he's like so handsome and beautiful.


And then I was like, why did I say that? But then I was like, you know what? This is the year of not giving a fuck about who you're attracted.


So it's all a spectrum, man. It's all speculation, which is ironic because Tiana paresis version of Captain Marvel later becomes spectrum ironic.


It's all a spectrum of spectrum. OK, Eddie, let me show you another picture.


Please do. Oh, yeah, she's a cutie pie. OK, I get it. That picture did it more for me than the other one.


Oh my God. It's really bad. So. So I need to see why you drink because you can't hold her at night is that way.


Well, OK, so then Warner Brothers reshow on email and I was like, oh, we're going to need this phone box of stuff for an upcoming movie starring her.


And I was like, oh, so I did a little unboxing video and it has just about say, has Jude Law.


Oh my God, Chrissy has Denzel Washington and some other fun people, Rahmi Malik. But yeah. So she's in it. So I've just so like and she re-entered my brain.


I guess what I'm saying yesterday, it's almost like now is the moment the universe held off for a while. I want you to really love her to talk about it on air.




So anyway, that wasn't even why I drink, but when one of you reminded me of the photos you sent me last night, I was like, oh yeah, I'm also in love.


So that's a problem anyway. Well, I'm happy.


So happy. Yeah. Good for us and our partners who are going to be pissed. Well. To answer your question about why I drink beyond my Paris future, Mr. Schultz, the creepy so I have for a long time, I'll just say this real quick, because I want to ask why you drink also. But I for a long time have been secretly in love with patches like Jack. Oh, yeah, I love patches. And I just never had like, I don't I still don't have, like, a jacket that's like worthy of patching up and stuff.


And I was always like, I don't know, like maybe I'm like too old for that now or like maybe that's I like my vibe or maybe I would look weird wearing that.


But I'm just as the person wearing literal fuckin fish on their feet says that may be too weird for me.


I think it might be too weird for me because at least people expect fish on my feet. People don't expect me to do something.


They'll be like, are you actually Quarterlife Crisis or something? Yeah.


Yeah. It might look like I'm like like with fish flaps, there's guaranteed zero real style behind it, but like with a jacket with patches, it's like, oh, are you trying. Are you trying. Right. I guess. Yeah. And I don't and I'm kind of scared of that, but I've just seen too many patches I like now and they all happen to be like paranormal themed. Yes. And so I was like, fuck it.


I'm just going to when I find the right code, that will be the universe telling me it's my moment and I'm just going to get all the fucking patches and I'm going to call my creepy code. And that's a yes. So now I'm I'm dreading it because I'm excited. I'm manifesting this creepy cult coming my way, so.


Oh, my gosh, that's so exciting. I have a bunch of pages, too, and I've I have denim jackets, but I've never, like, committed to which jacket put them on.


So I have a big pile them and I have a moth man, I have a Bigfoot. They're all like paranormal four. So yeah.


So we could have both agree because also my big thing is like I have such a struggle with, like if I find the right coat it's like, oh I already found the right coat without patches on it. And I like, how am I going to ruin it by putting patches all over it. So then I like getting my own head of like, like should I damage something that already looks great or potentially damage or do I find something kind of gross and amped up like I don't know how.


It's like I feel like it's a reflection because I'm the same way and I feel like it's a reflection of me with stickers when I was little because I was just so scared to like put them on. Like I was obsessed with stickers. But then I was like, well, I don't want to commit to putting them on something and then never. And so then I just had a fucking box of stickers that's like, OK, now I just have these stickers that I never got to use.


And, you know, because there's always like that one popular girl who fucking knew interior design by eight and like, knew how to, like, put the stickers on the journal. So it all looked beautiful. But then when I would put stickers on, it would just look like a fucking mess.


They would get like hair stuck to them. And I was like, now I'm that girl again, who I was that weird German girl covered in hair.


Well, that's my big fear when it comes to like like I have the sticker phobia with patches. I'm like, what if I don't know how to place these? Like, yeah, totally.


Then you're committing and Geminids don't like that feeling of committing. And I also not only do I fuck up the jacket, I fuck up the patches like I am the wear and the jacket. I do like special.


I need to collect a bunch and then give them to someone who knows what they're fucking doing and just say, like give it to me when it's done.


OK, creepy cult status, creepy code. Anyway, what wouldn't be drinking and why do you drink.


Well I mean I'm drinking water also out of my favorite cup which like blades always makes fun of me. But it's this random cup.


Your car cup. Yes, my car cup. How do you know about my car? Because you don't shut up about it. Christine, please. Always makes fun of me.


So I had this cup. I bought my car from Caravana, which is just like a website where you don't have to talk to humans to buy a car. So that's where I bought my car like a few years ago. Very much a used car. But but I was very excited and proud. It was my first car I ever bought. And with the car I love free shit with the car. They gave me this like water cup or this like Tumblr.


I don't know what it's called, plastic tumbler.


And it just this Caravana and I just developed like this, like I would only drink water out of it. And if I was using this cup, I would drink like all the water. And I'm very bad at drinking. Like I used to go days without ever drinking water, like weeks without drinking water.


And so finally I had this cup and then one day I dropped it in the driveway and it like splintered into a million pieces. And I was devastated. And Blaze was like, look here on Amazon, it's the exact same cup. And I was like, no, it isn't. That's not a Caravana cup. And so I went on the kabana, like customer service site and said, like, where can I buy a cup? And they were like, here's an actual link to buy the cup, because I guess you can just instead of buying a car, just buy a cup with the brand I like I they were somewhat of customer service that I was like, holy shit, this person wants to fuck.


And this is the first person that ever asked us for our. Yeah.


Like, like tech tech office. Put up a link to buy this cup I guess because one person wants it.


And so I ordered it and it's like my prized possession. I'm a huge weirdo, but I love my cup, my car cup.


Leave it to Christine to get weirdly attached to something that makes no sense. And also. Right. The only reason I know about it is because I was with you like the day after it shattered and you were like in a deep depression about it. And I was like, why? What's your fucking deal?


And I looked like SpongeBob when he. Out of the water and you were like, what's wrong? And blizzards, like Christine won't drink water out of any I'm like a child, like she needs her sippy cup or else she won't drink her water.


The Caravana Cup is your fish bowl, insanities planetarium or terrarium or whatever it is. Yes, it is.


And anyway, so I'm drinking water out of my cup. Thank you for asking. And I'm drinking water. We're both so boring this week, but I'm drinking water because I'm in a place with winter for the first time in like six years or five years. I don't know how you feel and dry. Yes. And I'm like crusty.


Sorry, that's gross. But my skin is always very dry because I have dry skin. I never drink water.


And so I'm trying to force myself to actually drink water because like, wine definitely does the opposite for your water intake.


I can gather that. Yeah.


So I'm in a winter spot. It's very cold. Five thirty in the morning to you has to go pee.


It is like 17 degrees out and it's not a fun time, but it's kind of cool for a minute. I'm sure by next month I'll be like, get me out of here. Well, we're now it's cute.


When it snows, I'm like, oh, we're enjoying our winter right now. But I have this, like, weird L.A. winter where it's like it it's forty or fifty at night for five minutes. And then it goes back to like the 60s or 70s. But like, I have this weird issue where after so many years of living in L.A., once it gets cold, I know that our winter is so short and not only is it so short, but it instantly goes to fucking blazing high up the lake, even though I'm trying to appreciate it, I have like, this weird paranoia of like, oh my God, is tomorrow.


The day it's fucking hot is tomorrow the day it's fucking hot. So I can't so I can't just relax and enjoy the. Yeah. Our very first when we first moved to L.A. and we were here through the Boston University program, we had like an orientation where basically one of the professors taught us about L.A. And one of the only takeaways I have from that is when they said once it hits February, that's the rainy season where it rains once and people freak out and then it gets cold and then like a month later, it's the hottest it'll ever be all over again for another eleven months.


And yet truly, it's like a place of extremes. I was like, oh my gosh, that sounds terrible. But there's no way that they mean that. There's no way. There's no way. And then the first time we were there, we were here in January, February by like March 1st. It feels like you're in hell again. And so I was like, fuck. So now every time it gets cold, I'm just waiting for the day that I enjoy.


Sweater, weather. Yes. Sweater weather, sweater weather. And I do like my layers and my comfy clothes, so I am enjoying that, especially because I don't need to leave the house so I don't need to look presentable. So I just wear fuzzy clothes all the time.


So I guess I'm drinking for cold, but that's all.


It's not very interesting. So sorry I had talked about it for ten minutes anyway.


That's all I've got. I'm drinking. I'm drinking with you though and that like I wish I got to experience the cold for longer than five seconds.


It's like I'm not I don't hate it yet. I think I'll hate it when it's so gloomy that, like, I think I hated it more when I worked outside of home and had to drive into work at like 6:00 a.m. every day back in the day or go to school that I did not like. When I'm at home, it's easier because you don't have to, like, leave the house. You can just stay cozy. So I don't know.


Listen, I will always find a reason to complain, as you all know. So here we are. Complain. Welcome.


We've we have a show called. And that's why we drink. So like and I don't ask because you're going to get an answer. A lot of answers. More answers than you wanted.


Christine, you're married, you know it well, you remember your wedding day, I assume? I do barely, but I do. And I think one of the reasons that I also remember very well is with the thanks of Zola. Zolo makes wedding planning easier and less stressful. And I remember you talking about it nonstop because it creates everything all couples need, all in one place between wedding vendors, save the dates, invitations, free websites, registry, all of that.


You were screaming about it. I had to hear about it. And now everyone else gets to hear about it. That's right.


I actually I kind of miss being engaged because Zola made it so much fun to do my wedding registry. That's where I got my beautiful vacuum.


Amazing brands. But you can also find prescreened vendors so you don't have to, like, do a back and forth with vendors that might not work well for you. And they have personalized recommendations depending on your style budget and more even save the dates and invitations, which is brilliant. So it's basically all in one place, even a free wedding website. I mean, everything you would need, they make it so easy.


You can do frequently asked questions and online RSVP page like everything that's kind of out there for planning your wedding.


But all in one place, which is amazing because of you.


My mom got solo when she was getting married to Tom, just like how we would talk about this all the time. But the registry is insane there. You can do cash funds or even probably like a puppy. I should have done that. Could be for anything. So if you are in the process of getting married, Zola is the place where you go to Zola Dotcom during today and use promo code, save fifty.


That's save five zero to get fifty percent off your save the dates. You can also get free personalized paper samples before you purchase that solar dotcom slash drink promo code. Save fifty.


I've been trying to cook more at home, and I'm actually pretty bummed out because it's only Wednesday and I'm out of Hello Fresh Meat.


I've heard all three of them. And now I'm like, well, now what do I do?


I wish I could, like, quickly order another one same day, because yesterday I made the roasted garlic and zucchini flatbreads and I was like, I wish I could just order three more of those.


And then I was going to say, I wish that I could just request one that I already ate this week and just have it come back to my door because I had to be forgotten by the people. Gogi Bowl, which is like these really nice meatballs with rice and everything. It was so, so good. And now I have to wait for my next hello. Fresh water to come. Hello.


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So you're not overbuying, which is a burden on the planet and your wallet go to hello fresh dot com slash drink 10 and use co drink ten for ten free meals including free shipping.


That's hello. Fresh dotcom slash drink 10 and use code drink ten for ten free meals including free shipping.


So my story this this week by the way, I hope you're excited because it's a, it's a UFO tale.


I'm always excited and now I'm even more I was going to say I'm excited, but then he said, Geophone my pitch just like automatically increase. You get very excited. You went up and knocked over.


We OK, sorry.


Before we do this, I know there was one thing we had to mention, which is that we were on let's not meet. We did. Oh yes he's on. Let's not meet. And we never mentioned it. And I was just I wanted to throw that out there as part of the Internet.


We were definitely part of Let's Not Meet. And Andrew is very kind to us and had us on. Actually, the reason we even got on was because there was an exchange on Twitter again, which is just proof that, like, if you wanted, ask for it and see what happens.


It's funny because somebody wrote, I want you guys to be on, let's not meet. And then literally two hours later, it was like, just kidding. I just found the episode where Christine is on Let's Not Me.


But then we were like, well, we'll do to get someone to be or someone said to me, like another Kristine's.


But on there we should get em. And then within seconds I was like, OK. And then Andrew deemed us. So I mean, it worked out really well.


So technology makes it easy nowadays to do these fun crossovers. So anyway, thank you, Andrew. That was a blast. And it was also the week that my favorite murder mentioned. Let's not be on their podcast, which obviously was huge. So I was like, shit, man, he's blowing up.


So check them out. It's a great show. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt, but I knew we were going to fuck.


No, no, that's totally fine. So our my story today is a UFO story, and it is the Japan Airlines flight sixteen twenty eight. So this is in nineteen eighty six and this is took place November 17th. And basically there was a Japanese Boeing 747 and it was a cargo aircraft that was en route from Paris to Narita International Airport. It was near Tokyo and it was the cargo was carrying was a bunch of wine. Oh. Oh God.


Oh my God. You'd also prepare me for that and also a stowaway name, Christine. That's all. The wine disappeared and they think it was a UFO, Christine, who was negative five.


All of a sudden it was hammered of good math. Okay. Oh, look, I'm really good with the negatives, so. Yeah. So was the wine specifically was called Beaujolais. It's from France Boseley.


Yeah, that's one of my favorite Saleen. And I always drink that when we can save up the money because it's like fifteen or twenty bucks so it's pricey. Oh shit. In my world it's pricey because I drink a whole bottle of it at once but it's like that of us.


But it's good. Well there you go. So it was literally carrying Beaujolais, Beaujolais. Beaujolais.


Yeah. It's, that's at least how isolated I say it. I don't know if that's actually correct. I like how it sounds a little Bujji is it's almost like it feels like you're I drink it in Florida too. So it was very non Bujji experience drinking it, buying it like a mini mart. But it's it's good. It's good. Well, fun fact. Japan is the number one export for Brazil and actually in twenty nineteen I think around five million bottles were exported from Japan.


So that's about fifty percent of the total export volume too.


So holy shit they're into that Beaujolais French wine. Paddison go. I see. So this is an excerpt by the way. I don't know if I'm going to say I didn't want to give anything away, so I just want to double check. But in nineteen ninety five so years, years later there was an excerpt by a MoveOn member named Jay Harper. He wrote an article called Alaska UFO Mothership Revisited, and this is an excerpt from it saying The captain boarded the plane before dawn in Iceland with two other members of the flight crew.


So there was a co-pilot and a flight engineer and the takeoff weight from Iceland was at its max. So there was nothing else that the. Plane could carry I think it was like like almost 800000 pounds or something. Oh, boy. And they have they're in the air for about four hours and that's where the story kind of takes place. So on the flights leg to Anchorage at five 11 at night over eastern Alaska, the crew sees two UFOs on their left.


Oh, all three members see the UFO was following them. So the co-pilot, the flight engineer and captain Teruggi Taraki Gerace, who, by the way, he's like an ex fighter pilot with like thousands and thousands of hours of flight experience. So if he says he's seeing a UFO, I'm kind of inclined to believe him.


Yeah, it's not his first time in the skies.


He's not like, what's that? Not is not his first rodeo.


That makes it more somehow believable. In a way.


This is a quote from Captain Starace of the experience. They were flying parallel and then suddenly approached very close. The things were flying as if there was no thing as as the as if there was no such thing as gravity. It sped up, then stopped, then flew at our speed in our direction, so that to us it appeared to be standing still. So it was just saying perfectly. Oh, that's correct.


Yeah. Like a helicopter. Yeah.


Oh, the next incident changed course. And other words, the flying object had overcome gravity. So it's just defying physics left and right, keeping in tune with flying.


OK, I'm not I'm not pretty. Oh, Elphaba.


And so a year, not even a year later, only two months later after the incident happened in November, eighty six, January eighty seven. The New York Times is writing about it in Teruggi, said that two of the lights were very small. To me it sounds big, but I guess if you're a captain in an airplane, this is small that the two of the lights are really small. They were no larger than eight feet wide, but the third light appeared to be on an aircraft and really big.


OK, yeah, if it does sound big. But I guess. Yeah, you're right. Maybe not. It sounds big when I'm thinking of like standing next to it, but not yelling out a window when it's taller than you.


So he also said that the lights that he saw were yellow, amber and green, but they were not red because. Not because. But he would have remembered if they were red because red is the international color for an aircraft beacon. And so he would have noticed if it was red. But he remembers being yellow, amber, green, the co-pilot named Takanori Tummo Fuji. You compared the lights to like Christmas lights, but with a salmon color.


Yeah. You know, that sounds like Florida. Like seven Christmas lights. Yeah, flamingo lights. And he said, I remember Retter, orange and white landing light and weak green blinking. Apparently, the co-pilot also said that he remembers the lights fading. Kind of like, you know, how if you have these days, lights have different settings and you can do like the pulsing, the slow pulse. He remembers lights doing that. He says that they remember he remembers them becoming stronger and then weaker than stronger and the weaker, which is different from strobe lights, which move really fast.


Sure. OK, that was how he remembers, sort of like they weren't strobe lights. They were really like undulating to use.


Undulating. Yeah, the lights were moving in unison as if they were two aircrafts with, quote, very good formation. So like super synchronized, which is just the worst, just the way it's somehow I don't know why, but that makes it so much creepier.


Any anything were two items are able to synchronize freaks me out because I'm like, you shouldn't be that intune like it about our friendship lamps. That's what I bought a precious but also creepy. So that's creepy. Imagine if you're from the eleven hundreds and that happened to be creepy, you know.


Well I think a lot of things have been I think my, my surfing on a menstrual pad would be creepy.


If you're from this podcast baby like this, we'd be already on a stake somewhere but I'm going to switch. Yea I figured out you could change the color coding of these friendship labs. I'm going to turn your samen tonight and see what happens. What do you call the call Muifa on your phone.


Have you been, have you been seeing me change it a lot or now. No because I said you need to update it.


By the way are you all. I just logged into our friendship lab. I finally set it up and it was like Linda is part of your family. And I went, Linda. And I was like, yeah, I bought her a friendship lab and synched it to mine. So now she's in our family, our group chat via Friendship Lab, which is hysterical.


So apparently you can get different lights that all sync up to like different things so you can have different relationships with different lamps. But I found out that because when you got us friendship lamps, you got them as a set. And so they have a different factory setup.


Yeah, that's my favorite thing, is that I bought a set and then I was like, here, mom, you can have your own. Well, I didn't know that there was a factory setting.


We're like ours. We're the only ones linked to each other. So I thought, like, oh, you got me one. That's a great idea. I'll save that for my mom. And so for Christmas, I got. Her lamp, thinking about her and I could have our own lamp relationship, you and I could have our own little story to share our relationship with other people. It's apparently it's like a group chat. And so now any time that Christine or I do mean something for each other, my mom's going to see her like glow, which is actually how it should be.


She every time we think of each other, she's like, yep, I'm important. So I think I pretty spot on. I'm inserting myself into the narrative.


But yeah. So sorry about time. She wanted to fly to L.A. to like, just be a guest on the podcast that we were like two weeks in. And you were like, what?


This woman really I got to give her credit in terms of confidence.


Also, like, tell me this is not the biggest thing you've ever heard in your life. I think for those of you who are new, welcome. But my mother is like kind of a combination of like Kris Jenner and Moira Rose.


And so you'll be oh, that's a great. Oh, and Lucille Bluth and the late entry.


It's like if all three of them just had, like, the most interesting child, the most interesting characteristics I'll put together. But so I'm not even twenty nine yet and my mother's already planning my 30th birthday and because we made a deal a long time ago, she would play in my 30th and I would play in her sixtieth. And they happened to happen in the same year, which happens to be two thousand twenty two, which is our lucky number.


So it's like a big deal to only us. But she literally has been texting me. It's so interesting, though, like I must have just changed a lot since the last time I lived under her roof and she knew everything about me because the things that she's sending me are like things that are just like not my cup of tea. You like what? Like Christine. She literally said like so I'm looking at this one company and you can rent a tiger.


Do you want a tiger at your birthday party?


What is that what you are into like. What do you mean. No, but I think I used to like because I lived under her roof, I just didn't know any better. And like, I just thought that was a normal ask. And now I'm just like, sorry, that was a normal ask under your roof.


Can I rent it? I think what is going on? I like losing it. I think I was just used to like, you know, how you leave your home when you get older and then you're like, oh, that wasn't normal. I think I yeah.


I mean, I thought I knew that, but I guess I don't actually know it because you seem to know it on a different level.


I think I think my mom was just always like I mean, I never got anything like a fucking tiger for a birthday. But I think like her, I think we kind of have that same personality trait of like look at the most fucking ridiculous things possible and like and then narrow it down once you figure out, like, where their interests lie. And so I think she was really starting fucking broad with like, do you want a tiger?


I love that. You were like, my mom never actually gave me a tiger. And I'm like, she's literally offering to get you a tiger right now.


I know. But before people think it was like super silver spoons. And like, I just I'm used to zoos at my house. I just I, I'm used to her asking really wild labate. I have a question.


This is my level of like of like Bujji, whatever. Goodness. Did you ever get a bouncy castle rented for?


You know, but I do think I was I think if I asked, maybe it would have been on the table. But I you know, what's really fucking bougie. And to be fair, like we have grown out of this lifestyle, I'm not this type of person. But I remember, like, my mom really want to throw me, like a huge birthday party when I was a little kid. I remember her saying something about like wanting to have a clown at a birthday party.


And like, I feel like she, like, made a joke about pony rides. I don't remember, but I had ponies. I'm kind of scared. There might have been a pony ride situation. I don't know.


That was my next question. I was like, ponies are above bouncy house in my book. I certainly never got a puppy for a bouncy house.


The sad thing is I don't even remember it. I was so young. Like, I really I don't think memory has know dramatized. I probably don't know. I was probably like, yo, this isn't a fucking tiger. I don't even want to.


So yeah, where's my tiger?


But so, so much so my mom's was asking, like all these wild questions were like, I literally I want a superhero party like I had last year, or like I want to like go to an escaper, like a slumber party, a slumber party. I literally had all I wanted for my 20th birthday was to have a sleepover with my friends on seven dollar Walmart mattresses. That's what I wanted. And my mother's on here like, do you want a tiger?


And I'm like, I respect the fact that you're really trying to gauge my interest to the fullest extent. But like we can we can really rein it in here.


But I can see the connection, though. I feel like you're very extra. Like I feel like you would do that for your child someday, like you would. I mean, not a tiger, because we all know now that's very inhumane. But oh, yeah, I think you would definitely like go all out and rent like the Amityville house or some shit. I feel like you would for sure do well.


So I think the reason the tiger thing happened because like, yes, my mother is very Bujji and I, by the way, like want to like take the moment to say, like, I'm. Very aware of the privilege that's there and that, like, I'm very lucky that I grew up with a mom who could provide me with truly whatever you wanted, Tiggers, if I fuck in one of them. I think my mom's also very lucky that she got a kid who doesn't want any of that shit.


I say, actually, that's an interesting combo. Yeah, but at the same time, I, I do think I have to give her credit and like that's how my going to get people really wild presence. Yeah. I see the connection. Yeah.


And the only, the reason that I think she brought the Tigers is because for my 28th birthday when I was saying that I won my superhero party, I told her, by the way, you know, there's a company out there. We're like, you can, like, rent puppies. Oh, yes, I remember this. And you can like apparently there's like a handler comes with you and it's basically for your birthday, you get like five hours with the basket with a basket of puppies and someone comes with them to like, clean up the poo and all that.


But basically it's a cuddle puppies and then they go somewhere else afterwards. And I was like, that sounds like a fantastic business plan. Like, why haven't we just like really as a generation looked into that more like go Nickelodeon used to have puppy days and they would bring puppies to like we had like four colleges have like.


Yeah. Colleges during exam because I think our generation hardcore lead into puppy days.


I think the company also had like they would bring paperworks like if you fell in love with one, any one you can adopt them. Yeah. Adopt or foster. I think it's a great thing. And so my mom heard like animal rentals and then really went over the fucking top. But so I, I was like, yo, I just wanted like a little golden retriever puppy that just like sit on me for a couple hours. That was it.


So anyway, I'm probably giving people a really bad look at like we both had weird.


Like, I mean we had weird upbringings in different ways. So I think people are used to it. And we all know, Linda, we're not surprised by Linda's behavior at this point.


I'm telling you, meyerrose Kris Jenner, Lucille Bluth. There's like, oh, you want a tiger? OK, but like, again, also like, thank God that's not my cup of tea. I just wanted a fucking puppy. And if it wasn't available, I understood it was probably with, like, a much smarter college student who needed it.


Smarter college student during exam week. But so anyway, I don't know how we got on that side. I don't either.


I think I think you said. Do you want to know something?


Buji Hmm. So I guess so.


Oh, because we were talking about the lamps. Lamps. Oh the friendship lamps.


Because I said Linda showed up and she inserted herself. Remember when she wanted to fly to L.A. to be on the show? Yes.


That was I mean, that was like just a very so I said I was going to turn your friendship lamp into salmon color so you could call Moviefone. That's all.


It was a very it was a very small taste that she wanted to insert herself last weekend.


Got a bear a bear update this week. They get a Linda update. That's just how it goes here, bears and tigers. So now we all lions and tigers and bears.


Oh, my little Huldah Lindas and tigers and bears. Now they bear and Linda would put on a bonanza. My mother, when I was like, do I get a bridal shower? She's like, do you expect me to pay for something like that?


So like, that is not how my mother is, but my father would definitely be on board with, like a pretty bonkers situation. He would probably make it a little bit off, like everything would be like off brand or like something from Germany that's like instead of an iPhone or an iPod. When I was little, he got me in a river.


So I like instead of instead of Kirkland Blueberry's you. Well, instead of like just real like fresh blueberries. You got her. Yes, exactly.


Yeah. So I think I think Linda would need to like, be the head honcho and like, monitor.


Well, just for those listening, if you are interested in all of the wild adventures of Linda, be prepared for the next year and a half, because my 30th birthday is not even around the corner and I have to deal with requests like that coming in and rejecting them at full stop.


So I'm going to text her separately. We like hit me up because I am ready to plan Christine. I'll be like ten tigers. Make them. No, I watch Tiger King, man. I don't even eat meat. But yeah, no, my mom texted me the other day, said, did you know you're turning thirty this year?


And I was like, yeah, she's like, that's old. And I was like, screw you lady. So don't worry. My experience is worse than well I don't get any.


I'll give you updates about the weird things my mom requests and thank you. So that's where that's where warmed up and also you will be involved at some point. So just be ready. Yes. Oh my gosh. Good luck editing that down to sorry everybody.


Sorry to you. Well this is just to you editing it. No, it's fine.


We'll leave it in OK. Oh yeah. Lights and UFOs. Do you remember that? Yes I do. So the lights are moving in unison as if. Oh because we're talking about synchronized in the lamps. Yeah. Creepy, creepy, creepy. Chote he. So the captain also compared the clarity of the lights to sing head on traffic, but he couldn't see the total shape so he was like this wasn't something I like blinked and it went away like this was something that was in my fucking face.


He said that he even dimmed his own lights in the cockpit. Some. Make sure that he wasn't seeing a reflection from something else, but the objects followed him for 400 miles. Oh, dear. He said that he tried to get a picture of the lights. And this, by the way, speaking of our parents, sounds like them trying to take a picture. This is a quote from him. I thought perhaps it was one of those things called the UFO.


And taking a photo might help to identify the object later. The area in which the plane was flying was unchanged, but the lights were still moving. Strangely, the lens kept adjusting and could never get a real focus. I changed autofocus to manual focus and pressed the shutter. But this time the shutter would not close. Then our aircraft began to vibrate and I gave up.


He's like their priorities here. The plane is vibrating. Oh God. So six minutes later, the captain reported this to FAA air controllers in Anchorage and the controllers could only see the captain's plane. They were like, we don't know what it is that's next to you. We can't see it. And so the UFO soon after, though, appeared on the FAA, Air Force and Cockpit Raiders radar. Sorry, but it only showed up for a short while, but they were able to see it just show up on.


Do you wonder if if the if the UFO was, like, heard like, oh, we can't see anything. And then they were like, here we are. That's not to say, Christine, mind thinking they're of like they're always listening. They're always saying, yes, that's my that's my very paranoid brain of like.


Do you think they are playing with all of us?


I don't know what it sounds like. It does sound like it was like, oh, you want to see us? OK, here we are.


Seems like they have control over whether they're able to be spotted on radar or not, which is why would they turn it on?


That's an interesting note. But hold on to that because that's OK. I'm holding on tight. So the captain also told that you told the FAA that the UFO was staying with him and the controllers told him to take action if necessary, which I don't know what you're going to do with a plane full of wine and just like take action and it's vibrating.


You're like it's going to be real messy. So convince Hiroshi he decreased the plane's altitude by thirty one thousand feet, but the lights followed him perfectly all the way down.


That's not good for me. I'm not into that cabin. Starace then heard random VHF or very high frequency radio static and he had never heard that before in his entire airline career. He described them. This was his quote of how the static sounded. He said it's some kind of jamming. It was just a weird noise like Zasa.


And I was like, OK, fair, OK, fair. I almost said, OK, and that sounds like my river malfunctioning.


The fact that I couldn't take a picture with it and it sounded like Zazzle, it's not supposed is I had my dad.


He then turned this was what I think is pretty genius. So then the captain decided that he was gonna turn the plane around in a full circle to see if the lights would follow him or if you would pass it or if it would if he would. If it would if you would lose it from the window. Like when he's looking out, if he's turning and it's falling, that's kind of creepy. And it did follow him. No air traffic control.


Couldn't see anything when the plane originally turned around. But within five minutes, they were able to see UFOs side by side with each other next to the plane, following it for ten minutes.


Who this is horrible and I'm scared. The lights kept and then all of a sudden they heard a car boom to convict.


Oh, my God. And then. Oh, and the beautiful. No wonder there were pulsating lights. It was like my high school homecoming dance floor.


It was just this is the club. But a happy hour I get over Florida, some salmon like the salmon, like we were just in Key West, get over Key West Dance Club.


Yeah. So the lights in the club, they kept in speed as the jet moved again. And basically when the jet was about eighty miles north of Anchorage, all of a sudden the lights vanished. Oh, I wonder why.


I also wonder why this is a very long quote, but this is I mean, I just literally told you the whole story. But this quote is the exact report from Captain Taraki, which I feel like should be heard. There's also some little details in here. So this is the whole experience. According to Captain Tragi, the distance from the lights was far enough from us and we felt no immediate danger. I thought perhaps it was a UFO and the lights were still moving strangely, most unexpectedly to spaceships appeared directly in front of the plane, shooting off lights.


The spaceships, which he called it a spaceship. The spaceships fired jets to, quote, kill the inertia of their high speed maneuver. After this, the ships appeared as if they were stopped in one place in front of us. And at the time, one ship was above the other. Then three to seven seconds later, OK, a fire like from jet engines stopped. And became a small circle of lights as they began to fly level at the same speed as we were, so it's almost like it shot itself off, then it halted, then it had these little lights and it was defying gravity the whole time.


Just really there was showing off these spaceships. They really are flashy with it, aren't they? Right. I mean, it's just trying to fly in and land next to my apartment for my 30th birthday, obviously.


Linda called the UFO rental company. Oh, my mom called the International Space Station and FAA and said, look, we need a crash landing on the 30th. You I need a real fuckin light show. You hear me?


Good. So where am I? So from the middle of the body of the ship. From the middle of the body, a ship sparked an occasional stream of lights like a charcoal fire from right to left, from left to right. That shape was square, flying five hundred feet to a thousand feet in front of us. Its size is about the same size and the body of a DC eight jet with numerous exhaust pipes. So this thing wasn't tiny, like this was like a big fucking jet right from the inside cockpit shined brightly and I felt the warmth of the UFO thrusters on my face.


Whoa. OK, so like from your own fucking plane, you know, heat, it is impossible for any manmade machine to make a sudden appearance in front of a jumbo jet that's flying nine hundred, ten kilometers per hour and to move along in a formation paralleling our aircraft. But we did not feel threatened or in danger. Honestly, we were simply astounded. I have no idea why they came so close to us. There was a pale white flat light in the direction where the ships flew away.


So they almost like left the trail.


Oh, my God, I'm nervous about this wine being skunked in the downstairs compartment that it's all been heated up by the FSA. I'll take it.


If it's if it's not, you know, suitable for sale, I'll take it.


You'll like it might get skunked. You'll test it all. Yeah, I'll try it. Right. I'll be controlled. Don't worry. Just drop it. I'll control the barrels.


Just have them tell Linda to reroute the supply and bring the barrels to Kentucky. Christine's going to handle it everybody. So then after those little spaceships vanished, the crew noticed a much larger disc shaped craft with a pale ring of light now tailing them, matching their speed and their distance and their altitude. So it's gotten worse now.


Great. So the Anchorage Air Traffic Center couldn't see they couldn't see it, so they set their radar scope to twenty five nautical miles. They broaden their range and all of a sudden they could see it. This was a quote from the Anchorage center saying then there it was on the screen. A large green round object had appeared seven or eight miles away. We arrived at the sky above the Ellson Air Force Base in Fairbanks, and it was a clear night.


We were just above the bright city lights and we checked the pale white light behind us. There was a silhouette of a gigantic spaceship and we got away quickly.


Oh my gosh, it's freaky.


Basically, as they were coming into this town, Fairbanks and the lights from the city were kind of getting closer and closer. It was showing more and more of this UFO behind them. It was like the glow was helping them see what the hell was following them. And it was this massive fucking UFO to the point where Captain Taraki even called the mothership.


Oh, I like how earlier he was like it might have been one of those things they call UFO, like it's the mothership. Like where did he get this illegal? Is he speaking of mothership? Now, Linda is walking herself off of the bridge of the UFO.


She's like a mothership who called for me the leadership. Excuse me.


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Just go to Canada me to get your free 40 day extended trial that CNN dot m e Canada dot me. So it's so big that cat Trotskyites even saying that it was, quote, twice the size of an aircraft carrier. And just for context, she says, let's use for contacts.


An aircraft carrier holds 64 aircrafts. Holy crap. And it said it was twice the size of an aircraft carrier. So it must have just completely blanketed the sky, in my opinion. Yeah.


And I and I hate that it's like so precision controlled. Yeah. You know what I mean.


Like, it's so massive, but it can just like to the exact also damage something that massive, like halting itself in space like that, like going from super fast to just not moving like.


Yeah. Just like doesn't abide by gravity.


No, no. That's not how this works. Taraki actually later made a drawing of it and the official documents say that it's walnut shaped. But if you look at it, it literally is the shape of a fucking lemon.


It's literally like it's got these big bulges. My baby is this big bulges above and below with a wide brim and like two little knots. I mean, it's literally a fucking lemon. What I literally was what a lemon that was. Lemons entrance onto this plane came to earth. Yeah. And he was like, oh, nothing here is this big. I need to shrink up. And he went too far. He like mummified.


I said he Antman himself and then he rolled under a bed.


It's like it, it's like wait a minute on ancient aliens when they're like, is this shrunken head the shrunken head of an alien?


It's like, no, but maybe it's eleven.


Oh, well, anyway, it's literally a lemon bringing Linda to Earth.


I think it was following the line. I don't understand what's confusing about any of this. It all make sense all of a sudden.


It really it was literally a big ass lemon following all those, just trying to get a hold of an entire place.


Are you actually the captain of the ship?


I'm I was waiting for you to finally put the pieces together. Yes, I like way come back. So according to the flight engineer, this UFO was absolute, quote, absolutely different to the first ones which had the clusters of undulating plates. So the radar at the airport nearby failed to even register this massive object. Probably it was like two big teven. They probably thought that was just like the default sky.


The clouds like something. That's the default sky, you know what I mean?


So FAA investigators actually deemed the crew basically their radars weren't picking it up. And this was when FAA decided that they were actually going to do an investigation because air traffic control was even offering military intervention. The captain actually said, no, I don't want the military involved because he had heard of this other incident called the Mantell incident, which we should cover at some point where apparently there was a pilot that was pursuing a UFO and taking action and he died.


Oh. Oh, shit. Oh, I don't know any more than that, but I could look into that. But basically he heard about that and he was like, I don't want to pursue this fucking UFO. So, like, don't bring the military into it. I don't want someone else accidentally die. So enough people can't explain this, that the FAA does a thorough investigation. They deemed the crew a, quote, normal, professional, rational and did not have a drug or alcohol involved.


They had so drunk, like half the wine and the all of the wine was still there. They didn't replace it with water.


It was still there. It was just in their bellies. And so so anyway, the investigation led to, I guess, the official reason that they had an investigation of people asses because there was a violation of airspace, OK, which like I feel like I could use that the next time someone like has like negative vibes. Violation of my area. I love that excuse me, you're actually violating my airspace, like especially after quarantine, like we're all going to need our own airspace to be very clear.


I mean, is that not, like, so predictive of like social distancing of like. Yes, to get out of my airspace. You're violating my airspace. I love. So anyway, now maybe post covid will have a shirt that says that I actually Śiva can you write that down.


I love that quote. I love it. I almost wrote it down myself. I was like, why would I do that. When we have an iPhone we have it. Eva, Eva, Eva write that down. Can you make sure to write something about violating our airspace. So she probably wrote it down when she first heard it. I was like, yeah, guys get how this works.


So during the investigation, Captain Strategy was based in Anchorage and actually became sort of a celebrity in town because of the sighting. And only a month later, actually, Japan Airlines grounded him and moved him to an office job because they found out he was talking to reporters.


Oh, my God, that's not very nice. Which makes it shady, though, because they were like, where are going to. It's almost like that.


The cop who knows too much all of a sudden gets the desk desk duty, you know, so it's eerie that they're like, we don't want you to be talking to people too close to the truth. Yeah.


So the month after that, he ended up telling the FAA anyway that he thinks the mothership intentionally stayed and the darkest side of the sky and like, kept because he kept seeing it, but not being able to really see it because he can only see it through like the glow of the lights, but he can never get a real full image. Right? It was. And so he thinks they were intentionally in the dark because they didn't want to be seen with him.


Which brings up your point of like, do you think like they popped up when all of a sudden they got mentioned? It's like so it's like, well, did they want to be hidden or did they like playing this game of like, oh, we'll show ourself briefly, but because I think that they would know that they've been seen at some point.




Like I think we're all under the I think we've given aliens the stereotype that they have the power to read our minds at all. True. True. And if we see it, we know it sees us seeing it.


So maybe they don't have that power, which I refuse to be there, just like, I don't know, we're just lost and we're like they're reading my book.


Yeah, that's entirely possible that we're giving them, like, ridiculous parameters and they're like, we're just like you. But for some reason, I have a feeling that, well, because you hear about those stories where people are like, I saw it and suddenly it like, zoomed toward me. Yeah. Like it. I feel like you hear those stories where they do read your mind.


Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. So anyway, the captain himself says he thinks that if they wanted to be seen, this is another quote, but he thinks the UFO wanted to hide while looking at them and the 747 because they had, quote, in front of the sunset and visible for any movement we made. So it was always keeping Captain Tracey's plane is almost like they were intentionally backlighting themselves, that they always see Captain Shiraki.


But Captain John could never see that. Oh, so creepy. He did also tell the FAA and official documents that he hopes, quote, we humans will meet them in the near future. No, thanks. I thank you, Captain. I'm going to love you guys from afar.


But you're violating my airspace, and I'd like you to step back.


We'll talk about you on the podcast, but just tune in from space, please.


Yeah, from the safety of our microphones. But that's it. So come any closer.


When asked why UFOs would be interested at all and even interacting with him, Captain Taraki said, and I quote, We were carrying Bujold a very famous whine.


Oh, my God, they're on to me like this alien must be. Oh, my God. Wait, I just realized something.


What? It was fucking xenon. Oh, how do we not make that connection? She borrowed a seat on Daddy's JAG to get all the way to the fanciest wine that she could find within. Excuse me. She was like, excuse me. There's apparently like 770000 pounds of this wine here.


It's my birthday month and I would love to have a little sip sip. Excuse the lights.


We're having a little bit of a party limo situation. A party limo.


It's a party. Lemon, hang on. I have to write a lot of this down. Eva, can you write all this? This is truly an and that's why you drink fucking fever dream. The UK is driving a lemon to the one and also unstrapping eleven.


Yeah I follow so far I follow everyone else's.


Slowly lowered the volume on this podcast and by slowly I mean halts it it fucking press every stop and partner, everyone's partner.


A roommate who like. Yeah ok fine. I'll listen to one episode is like really.


And you're like they're like no I promise they don't always talk like that.


I always screaming except for you'd be lying because that's all that we do would be lion lions.


Tigers and bears. Oh Lindas. Tigers and bears. I can't get it together. OK, anyway this is then this is a story of how Ziemann came to earth.


I don't know how we didn't figure out who submersed. A story like earlier, but here it is beautiful, some people obviously dispute this UFO claim, me included the second you said xenon, I began to dispute it.


This is like I said, Lemon, don't kid yourself. But there was a and so in 1987, there was one article written by this skeptic, journalist named Philip Glass. And I feel like I've mentioned him before. I don't know if he's as big as I'm putting him in my mind, but I feel like Philip Glass was like kind of on every fuckin case to dispute aliens. But so this is a quote from him about why he thinks that the story is not true.


So Philip said, quote, Astronomical calculations of that night show that when the pilot claimed to see the UFO, Jupiter was extremely bright and was visible precisely where the pilot reported he saw the UFO. Mars was just below and to the right of Jupiter and may explain the initial report that he saw two lights. This is not the first time that an experienced pilot has mistaken a bright celestial body for a UFO, nor will it be the last, I think that the Japanese pilot first of all, why do we have to say the Japanese pilot, the pilot?


I think that the pilot should have been a little more skeptical when the United Airliner and the Air Force plane reported seeing nothing.


Yeah, you know, you had the second he said the Japanese. It's like when people say a female pilot. Yeah. That. What's the qualifier for?


What are you trying to say here? Yeah, exactly. So anyway, I'm not on Phillip side right now. No, Phil, you're just step sit down.


Phil, I'm really mad of fury. He yeah. So he basically said like they were actually just planets and this is not the first time a pilot has mistaken that as a UFO. OK, one of the times that that actually has also happened. Just a fun fact. In World War two, there was a big chaos because a bunch of B twenty nine pilots that were in the Pacific, they were flying at night and reported this mysterious ball of fire and they thought it was like long range aircraft that was going to try to shoot at them.


And then they ended up finding out it was Venus where they shooting at Venus.


So they were they were little. Oh, can you imagine later they were like reporting to your officer and being, like, so awkward.


So can we still write off all those bullets? Yeah. Yeah. What do we get more ammo. How does this work? They've literally for a long time, we're shooting a fucking Venus thing, like I don't get it. They won't back down. Oh, jeez. So anyway, the Anchorage Daily News, they also said, according to Philip J. Class, that it was glass class with a K. Oh, I thought you said glass, which Philip Glass is like a composer.


So I was like, if this is the same guy, he needs to stick to one fucking lane.


Oh, no. Any time I think of glass, I think of George Glass, which was Jan Brady's fake boyfriend. That always makes me laugh.


That's right. Yeah. OK, so class class like knockoff like the knockoff class like K like with a K instead of a C. Got it. So Anchorage Daily News says that according to class, the pilot never reported seeing Jupiter or Mars, even though they were clearly visible. In fact, when the co-pilot was asked if he could distinguish the lights as being different from a star, he said no.


Oh, so that makes it seem like a credible dispute of like, well, you couldn't even tell when we were giving you a test on it. You couldn't even tell the difference. So how can we trust that you didn't know whether it was?


I guess my question is like, then why? I mean, I have a lot of questions, but I'm maybe I'll get to them.


But like, if it's on the OK, first of all, it was seen on the radar briefly. Right.


So like, what were they saying then if they saw two and then also like I get that. Oh, the light looks like something right out of the out of space.


But also if you're feeling like it's stopping and you see jets and you feel the heat, I mean, this is all just really specific.


Yeah. And I guess. Well, let me let me say this for so other skeptics have said that the UFOs could have been optical illusions caused by ice crystals. And I guess sometimes like maybe if it's like a reflection off of a cloud, it almost looks like a thick actual object. So a radar could have maybe picked it up. I'm not really sure. I'm not sure. I'm just trying to guess off of, like, a reflection plus cloud, something could have looked like something else.


Other people, though, say that Captain Hiroshi already established himself as a UFO believer in the past, which makes him look biased because he had logged several other sightings before. But to the point that you're making, the event wasn't just witnessed by him, who was a believer. It was all three crew members who said that they had this experience and that the radar did pick up signals of something at around eight miles away. And the radar display did show a color strength.


I guess it's called like an echo, but based on the strength of the signal of something else next to you, it goes from either like green all the way up to red for a really strong signal. Sure. I guess also fun fact. Planes use this to for potential up. Coming turbulence, that's how they're able to say like, oh, we're going to get a little bit of turbulence and a little bit. So just be prepared for that.


They can see it through like this, like Echo Radar or whatever. Which I sure wish they gave like portable versions of that to.


Absolutely. To the people sitting on the plane. So if I saw a big ass red dot coming my way, I would know to pray versus.


But can you imagine, like everybody on the plane suddenly sees a red dot coming at them? It would be fucking chaos. I mean, so many Klonopin deep because I'd be using, like the phone on the back of the plane to be like at least you could you could phone.


Oh, I wonder if like I wonder how many people don't actually know what we're talking about.


When we said, yeah, they're like phone on the plane. I'm like for Candy Crush. No, like the ones where you put your credit card in it. Never mind the dikes. OK, that makes me old, but wow.


Yeah, I'm glad actually nobody has radar ability because if you saw that your neighbor holding one of those and there's like a red blinking dot coming at you like yeah, it wouldn't be cute for my psyche, but it could I could properly tie my antianxiety meds though.


Oh, when when do I take that Ambien. Oh right now. That's why you take it.


The second the engine starts go in and then you're fine. OK, you're clear even to give you another lesson before our next tour. I thought, I thought we've gone through this multiple times, Christine.


No, I lost all of my lessons because you would always go up to the Delta, first fucking class, whatever, and even I would sit at a call.


It is not my fault that a year into us touring, I was like, well, what are you guys the reward numbers, you're like, I don't have one. And I was like, you could have literally been getting rewards, Miles, on every single flight we took and probably been up there with me.


Sorry that I'm savvy and frugal, OK, my my mother with the fucking ponies at a bird. I'm telling you, she she taught you this early. She should have and I think she did. And I wasn't listening because she was furious at me when she found out that it took me so long to like get it.


I found out I was up there and you were not and was like, what? And I'm like, I tried to tell them. I said, get a reward. No, I'll plug it in when I book our flights.


Also my Delta thing, my dad says. Speaking of which, my mom and dad got me on it in 1992.


So I was like six months old and they got me one because they were like, I have a feeling she'll need this someday.


And like, that's a genius move, though. If you have a baby, just set them up. Now, it literally is like a member for twenty nine years. And I'm like, that's really creepy. But I guess it's true.


I mean, Eva is like three months and also because there's a shitty fucking muffin for you to split between. Yeah.


And it's like minor parent Christine Schiefer has signed them up because they refused to do it themselves. Yeah. OK, so I'm not going to stand by and get shit on for that.


I do miss many of those encounters at the airport because we would always for some reason find each other before we ran into you at the airport. And I'd be like, she's probably up in her fucking lounge.


She's like, I was because they have free mimosas. Good. I'm a cheapskate. OK, so anyway, they're the raid. My mom's having a heart attack somewhere like I did not raise you like this. And Linda, somewhere like I think my children got switched at birth.


I pray to God my mom does not listen to this episode. I'm posting her that said no more exotic for you, only poneys for no poverties.


Well, also, never mind I we won't derail anymore. But so the the radar, the echo turbulence thing, it shows a really strong radar is red and a really weak one is green. And all three of them remember seeing that the UFO blip was green. So it's good that they can all confirm each other's stories. But it's also interesting. That's something that fucking massive, which should have definitely showed up a trend. But then there's the counter argument of like, well, if it's defying physics, it could go through like it could also go against our own technology and it could be in like a stealth mode and hiding itself like anything's possible.




So anyway, so Captain Taraki disagreed with Class's opinion, obviously, and said it wasn't a weather phenomenon, it wasn't a star. It moved with us. And ultimately the Air Force just kind of deemed this as like random clutter and just kind of swept under the carpet space junk, your random clutter, but also you're violating my airspace.


Yeah. Hey, listen, one man's space junk is another man's land.


I'm clouds of UFO following through the skies, chasing your wine, tasting your wine.


So Captain To was instated as a pilot later, but he did report a second UFO in the same space years later. So it's depending on what side you're on, it's like, oh, see, it came back or it's like, oh, so now you're you're seeing it as more ice crystals. Yeah, exactly. So basically in the same area, he was later smiling. He was later flying a similar route and he radioed to air traffic control.


Please record this. Irregular lights. Looks like a spaceship. This is like pilot who cried UFO like that's going to be really careful with these calls now because you already have a rep like a bad rep for for this kind of a sighting.


It's like you got to really you've got to really be ready to defend your house here. So this time there was no unexplained radar and others on board could not confirm that they saw a UFO. And officials said that it was just village lights bouncing off of ice crystals. So as more ice crystals, like you said, maybe it's good they gave him desk duty.


Now I'm like, I don't know if I want this man to find my way around. If he's like, I think he is sneaking the wine. Hang on a second. Yeah, something's going on. So basically what ended up happening to him is he's probably like eighty one now and he retired in Quanto North Quanto Japan. And one article a few years ago said that he lives with his wife and doesn't talk about the UFO if he can avoid it, because he said, I spoke to a doctor, he said it was just an illusion, but his wife is like the perfect catering wife and was quoted saying you saw something you just weren't meant to see.


So it's like, oh, that's a great way of putting it, though. Yeah. So she's just super supportive because it is true. Like, you weren't meant to see the reflection of ice crystals, you weren't meant to see natural phenomena in your eyes, just caught it in the wrong moment or you saw an alien and you weren't fucking supposed to.


And guess what? No one was ready for it and they don't believe you. So it didn't help.


So the FAA did an in-depth report of flight sixteen twenty eight. And it has in this report, it has primary references, interviews, written records, photos, drawings, recordings, a chronology of the events, the printout of anchorages, air traffic that night. And it has the FAA form 31 12, which is the inspection and surveillance record. And you can actually buy all of this. You can see the report yourself. But the FAA charges about two hundred bucks for the complete package.


Come on. But guess who is a member of Moviefone and Broe? I so I wanted.


What's your discounts? Well, no, sorry. Like, I have access to like you remember, you can like I talked about the last episode where you can basically look through the log of like any reported UFO. Yeah. And see everything. So I tried to go, I tried to move on and look up this. It was November 17th, 1986 and Alaska. So I looked it up. But remember last episode I also told you that McPhun is not on top of their tech, is on Angelfire Web or whatever.


I mean, literally something from nineteen eighty six hasn't been reported and it's like apparently a big case. So it's really I don't know if it's outdated or it's just not well organized. I don't know what the deal is, but I've tried looking it up. It's not in my phone's records. But I will say I looked up for all of nineteen eighty six in Alaska. There were two hits and one of them actually was on November 17th. Oh. So what's, what's interesting for me with my check, with my fact checking, it's interesting that the only other UFO sighting happened to be on the same day they have put it on the wrong year, or is it just a different, completely different story?


This is a completely different story, but it almost kind of confirms the like something was going on that day in Alaska.


We saw it another time. Didn't the guy see it another time? Maybe not the same day, but in the same spot? He said he did, but there was like no real evidence of it, at least. So the that flight sixteen, twenty eight, it was like, yeah, we can't explain it. That's kind of weird. Yeah. But so there was two hits for all of nineteen eighty six in Alaska. Both of them happened to be in November, which is weird.


Yeah. One of them happened to be the same day that flight sixteen twenty eight happened. And this is the, the information that someone logged. I don't know if I'm allowed to read it, but I'm going to do it. So this is the report for November 17th that's on Marfan's site. I was driving north when I noticed a glowing ball floating above the water in the inlet. I thought that it may have been a helicopter spotlight, but it was very foggy and it was much lighter in a different color.


It only followed at the same speed as my vehicle. I was mostly amazed at what I was seeing. It was something that I had never seen before. It glowed a yellowish white color.


Samone, you know, I don't know, really, really rotten, bad. Even if your salmon looks like a DeJohn actually Dijon mustard, maybe. I was I was mostly amazed at what I was saying. It had it glowed a yellowish white color that illuminated the surroundings of my vehicle. I believe the fog also enhanced the effect. I then felt as if I had fallen asleep, but I was a few miles down the road from where I was driving.


And when I looked at the ocean to see the object, it had disappeared. I never told anyone until a couple of years ago. I never felt compelled to share my experience, but recently have had very strong thoughts about it. And the other strange thing is a loss of time. During the sighting, it seemed that I had been sleeping and woke up twenty minutes later, but I never did. I didn't fall asleep, but the time somehow went by.


Hope this helps. Hope it does, you stranger. So that was that happened on the same day. It doesn't seem like they were same day, same. This was the exact same time. Oh, the same year, too. I thought this just happened to be the same day, like on a different year.


No, I think that's why I kept I think that's why I kept repeating it, because I felt like you weren't giving another November 16th.


But I didn't realize, like, literally no. So I. So it was November 17th, 1986. Oh. And so through my farm, I just looked up all of 1980, so I got scared.


OK, and the only two hits in Alaska were of 1986 were both.


And that is weird. I see what you're saying now, although you could say like, well, Jupiter was really strong, that maybe this person also saw the reflection, but not a bang.


But you're right that it is really weird that two people would have a sighting on the same day in the same place.


And the other one, because I said there were two heads. One was definitely on the same day as 16, 28. And the other one that just said November nineteen eighty six is also probably from the same day because this is their story. This is from excuse me, Wasilla, Alaska. Still feels like yesterday I was nine years old. My mother had put us to bed, but I'm a night owl and I've always loved the stars. I was watching out the bedroom window watching a big orange star, orange Samaranch.


We're getting closer.


Well, I thought it was a star as it got closer, it was really hot giving off the heat of a sun.


Oh, almost like how he felt. The UFO thrusters.


The next thing I remember, I was on a metal table. OK, now we've crossed the line, not strapped down, but I couldn't move a bit as if I was being restrained.


And the surrounding base, they were surrounding the table. I was screaming and all of a sudden my voice wasn't coming out of my mouth, but it was inside my head and it was so loud that I stopped. They had mouths, but they didn't use them to communicate. They were talking to me inside my head. They proceeded to poke and prod me through my belly button and between my toes.


Oh, they seem to be trying to soothe me by stroking my forehead like my mother did when I didn't feel good. I don't recall how I got back in my bed, but when I opened my eyes, I was drenched as if I had jumped in a pool. I immediately ran to my mother's room and began to tell her what had happened. She was quite freaked out, but did, believe me, she was nice. That is nice. We still talk about it from time to time, but we've always wondered what happened.


I was recently watching the History Channel and I saw an episode of the Japan Airlines flight over Anchorage in 1986, and I was watching and I was frozen in shock.


I looked at my husband and said, that's the UFO that took me so literal ultimate goose. So I do not know what to do with myself right now.


So Flight sixteen, twenty eight wasn't mentioned on move on site, but the only two reports for all of nineteen eighty six in Alaska both happened on the same day allegedly.


I'm really afraid. See this is, I don't even like to look at like alien suffers because it's like I feel like the second I notice it, it's like they're going to take me on a table and put something like I don't know, I don't like, I don't like.


I feel like the more I think about it, the more likely it is to happen.


Oh, anyway, there you have it on Japanese Airlines Flight sixteen, twenty eight and also a lot of wildly thick tangents this, this day. So it's wildly thick.


They, they weren't just little little little moments, they were experiences. They weren't little spirals. They were giant tornadoes. Sure.


With tunnels. Funnels. Yes. Tunnels and tunnels. There you go. That is wild.


OK, I'm, I'm so scared of aliens dude. I'm so scared of them.


I know. Scared. I know I and I don't blame you aggressively.


I one time went to a akashic record reading before I even knew what it was and before I'd like obviously taken any courses in it and they told me that I was part of the OK, I've never said this on the podcast because good bye.


What are you about to say. I don't know if I've told you, but they said, oh, you have a connection to the Lemurians.


Is that what they're going. No, no, sorry. Not the immigrants.


Sorry. That was the wrong one. That was on the audience. OK, that's even creepier because I don't know what that is. OK, let me.


And they were like, oh, does that mean anything to you? And I was like, kind of, but I don't know why. And then I looked it up and I was like, I've looked this up in like high school for some reason. But then I got really freaked out because she kept describing, like, how some people are part of played in star system. I got really freaked out, but then I took ended up taking Akashic record reading classes.


But anyway, so she said I was part of the play and star seed or something. So if anyone knows what that means, hit me up. Because if you're also part in according to your ancestors, let me know if you're twenty three and me lets me know that you're a player and well maybe you related. I wonder, does it have to do anything with like the theory that like aliens helped build the Egyptian pyramids.


I don't know because I've also heard that's like a very problematic theory because it doesn't give credit to actual civilizations who like did actually do really intense work.


So I've definitely heard that that's not a great argument, I don't think that's actually the same thing, though I'm pretty sure this is the idea that, like, they lived on a different star system and then some of them, like reincarnated on Earth, like they're different people.


This is why I never told on the show. I'm like, I'm going to sound so loony tunes and there's going to be song listening for the first time going, OK, this is way weirder than Spotify led me to believe you're on.


You talk about a lemon all the fucking time. But at this point, so well, if anyone knows who they like about the aliens they like, Pleiades is where they come from. I think. Anyway, it doesn't matter.


OK, ok. Freaky stuff though. I just is something about it freaks me out.


If anything, I'm just jealous that I'm not part alien. Maybe you are. Maybe I am.


I don't know. I'll do another akashic reading for you and maybe you owe me about 20.


Christine, I do owe you a lot. Yeah I will do. When maybe you can do them. I can do it over Zoome maybe. And I say this every time but you have to, you have to ask me. I'm not allowed to offer it.


That's Christine.


I ask you every single time we talk about it but you never say it like hey, do you have time tomorrow afternoon to like OK, I'll do it on the show and then it's never like I'll set an agenda alarm to regularly text you that.


And then the day you say, yes, it will be the day that, OK, you can maybe ask you to schedule it for us and then it'll be official.


See everything finally forced to even write down that I'm free all of my life.


Yeah, OK.


And then figure out with Chrissy, let me know. Write down that I'm always at the doctor's but any time of night we can do one.


Even if Christine's asking, I'm actually not available. I'm washing my hair. I'm busy. You're wildly busy all the time. Yeah. OK, well I have a story for you today and that's very disturbing and problematic in a lot of ways. So I just want to warn everybody this is a toughie. But it's also really fascinating and touches on a lot of issues, modern day issues that still apply.


So this is shit. OK, and I will also add that the name for one of these, the people involved is Ethiopian.


And I watched YouTube it.


I tried everywhere to find the pronunciation.


Everybody who does an episode or there's it's not very common of a story, but anybody who covers it says, I don't really know how to pronounce this. So there's really no clear clarity online as to how to say this. So I apologize if I'm mispronouncing it, but the way I have been saying it is seen a do I need you seen a do or Sinitta SETI sorry I kn sin and then Eddo maybe Sindhu said to do.


Yeah. I don't know. My, my, my gut instinct is as I said to do, but that's the American it's going to do.


Yeah. I've been waffling between sonido insensitive so I'm not sure. But then her last name is Tadesse.


So this is also takes place in the well not the eighties I guess in the nineties but it takes place May 28th, 1995, and we're just going to dive right into the story. So buckle up.


OK, what can you give a trigger warning for what content it is?


Yes. And I do often hesitate to give trigger warnings because I feel like pretty much every story I cover deserves a trigger warning. And then I end up saying it for some stories and not for others.


And is there is there anything that is different?


I not realize, OK, I don't know.


This was like specifically child or animal abuse.


No, I can't even do animal stuff anymore. It's really bad. How like how ridiculous. It's suicidal. Such a sad story, a stabbing.


So like basically most stories I cover, which is really sure. Kind of fucked up.


But but no, that's I mean, I, I'm sure that's quite a struggle you deal with all the time. But there's like always something pretty dark that's going to get covered.


It's tough because some people say, like, well, you should give trigger warnings.


And I'm like, I know, but I feel like there's an umbrella trigger warning over the whole show because almost every story has some form of like either sexual assault or suicide or I mean, and or children or I mean, it's it's hard to kind of nail down every single stories.


Right. Warnings. But yes. Thank you for asking, Souci. Definitely. And stabbing, I guess, is the other one, which obviously both deserve.


Sure. Warning and, you know, just mental health issues in general. So this takes place in 1995 at Harvard.


Oh, Harvard. Harvard. Are you sure? A tried Harvard. That's my Midwest accent.


26 year old Tao Nguyen woke up to a sight that would be burned in her memory forever. She was visiting Harvard specifically at the Dunster House, which was a dormitory and had been staying over with her friend Trango, who was a junior at Harvard. And so Tao had come to help train move out for the summer. I'm sorry, Tao.


Yes, train was moving out of the dorm and. Her friend tão had come to help her move out and was just staying a couple of nights, so tell wakes up to a horrific sight, eight a.m. tão wakes up to the sight of her friend trying being stabbed by her roommate, Seina du Tadesse.


Woa, who is another junior at Harvard Tau, later told the Herald, quote, I heard the screaming and I opened my eyes. According to tell, Senada was looking, quote, crazy as she wordlessly stabbed her friend and then obviously trying to, like, react and intervene as quickly as possible, tão also got swiped by the knife herself, trying to grab it from C to do and got injured in the struggle, but thankfully survived. She escaped and fled into the dormitories courtyard where another Harvard junior later explained that to the Harvard Crimson newspaper.


I woke up at eight thirty to hear a girl out in Dunster Courtyard shrieking, Someone's killed my friend. Someone's killed my friend.


It went on for three or four minutes, so tão fled the scene and somebody had stabbed her roommate, Trang, a total of 45 times when my hunting knife.


Oh, my God. Why did that make it worse? I don't know.


There's something like really hands on and terrible about the story. A hunting knife feels really intentional. I think, like it's like, yeah, it's not like a spur of the moment. Let me grab a knife from the kitchen. It's like. No, from the butcher block. Yeah, exactly. It's meant to fuck you.


Like no one's going hunting at Harvard as far as I'm concerned. Like that's just not an activity on the roster.


Usually it's not an elective.


I don't think so anyway. I mean, Harvard has probably some pretty weird electives, but I'm not sure that's one of them. But yes, I've seen do it stabbed her forty five times with a hunting knife that she had actually bought specifically for this murder.


So you're right, it wasn't something she had on hand. She had purchased a hunting knife, presumably for to murder her roommate.


Right. Zenati then barricaded herself in the bathroom and hanged herself from the shower rod.


Oh yeah. Wow. It's just really upsetting this whole story. According to a salon article called Satan Goes to Harvard, quote, The crime was stunning not only because it was savage, but because, as a Harvard official commented at the time, there was no apparent reason for it. So now we're going to rewind and tell the story leading up to what the fuck happened on that morning.


So to do a train, we're both biology majors at Harvard in a course. It was like a premed course, basically both aiming for med school. Both of them dreamed of becoming doctors so they could help others. They were also both admitted to Harvard on full scholarships. Zenati Tadesse was born on September 25th, 1975 in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, and had grown up in a pretty well-off family. I mean, I didn't get any intel as far as like how many tigers they would rent and like whether that was an option.


I guess I'm by the way, like, let's take a moment to say, like, I am still so embarrassed that I even come on, I'm wearing my trashy, classy shirt because I embraced it.


So, you know, I know all guys for the things you let me just do it let me just do a disclaimer real quick and be like I'm very aware of that. Like, every parent is problematic in some way and mine chooses to make lavish requests like that. But then I will say she does get educated. I don't like she she walked away from that conversation knowing that animal abuse is a real fucking thing. And like, no, Linda, I don't want anyone thinking about like I like I'm also just like a I don't think any of us think that, you know, TICAS.


I don't you know, I just don't want people to think that I like I heard it and took it as like a serious requestor, like thought of it as like a real person should have pony rides at your children's at your own birthday party.


Thank God. Thank God I blocked it from my memory. So I don't have to feel that one's not on me. I didn't choose that.


I mean, at twenty nine I'm like, I'm jealous retroactively. I never went to a birthday with a pony ride. Or maybe I did. I was probably just jealous then.


Gosh. Well no I'm, I'm, it's funny you mention it because in that exact moment I was like, oh I really hate that I even brought it up because I just feel so stupid.


But anyway, now come on, people know you, people know us, OK? They don't think you're literally renting. If I ever rented a tiger, it would be to secretly, like, help them escape and then bring them back to to the wild or something. I don't know.


OK, now you're going too far because people are going to say they're not meant for the wild and by the wild, I mean Dr. Doolittle and. Yeah. And who would feed them steaks and we would eat steaks together.


In the in the first episode of the podcast, I literally talked about how my stepmom bought a bear from a catalog. So I don't think, OK, that's true. She's sitting here going, wow, must be terrible. That's true. My step mom literally ordered a bear and it arrived and she kept it in the playroom.


So I don't think this is, you know, next level for her.


I know I have done both our mothers have ordered animals off the Internet.


That's or at least two. Yeah. Got to know. I appreciate that. I'm just always a parent of the people think. But I'm not for the cause and Ms. Ms. One of the people you know and wants to be one of the people I do, and if I'm not one of the people, I'm certainly looking through the window and wishing I was there.


So you and I are just definitely not invited to be part of the people were just on the outskirts anyway. Sorry.


So she was raised in Ethiopia and a relatively well-off family. But the time that she lived in Ethiopia was kind of wrought with chaos and murder and violence. It was Ethiopia's red terror, which was a violent political repression campaign of the Derg, which was a provisional military government of Ethiopia against other Marxist Leninist groups in Ethiopia. So there was a lot of mass murder atrocities.


Corpses were dragged to families doorsteps by soldiers who would then force the bereaved family to pay for the bullet so that they would have the body back.


Yeah. Oh, fuck that.


Yeah, it's it's just like really, really dark times. Wow. So it was a regime in which, quote, the murderers had the power. So that's kind of the social political environment that she grew up in as part of the resistance groups, you know, whose father had been thrown in jail for two years when she was seven and he was kept as a political prisoner for a while.


However, during that time, her dad recalled that scene, that he was very cheerful, would visit her a sari, would visit her dad, would visit him in prison with her mother, who was a nurse. And when she was little seen and he didn't really have many friends, she was kind of ostracized by people at her Catholic's girls school, as well as her own family members as a child. So she was kind of just on the outskirts.


And to escape, she would devote herself to her studies. And she worked so hard at her academics that she was admitted to the prestigious international community school where she graduated as valedictorian. And this was huge because it gave her kind of the opportunity to leave and go to an American university, not the American University. That's where I went. It's nothing like Harvard. Don't worry.


So she actually got she was accepted by 24 different American colleges.


Wow. Wow.


Yeah. One of that being Harvard. Jesus Christ.


Yeah. But she decided to go with Harvard on a full scholarship.


So, like, OK, well, let's be nice about the congressional relations.


And I were literally like we could see Harvard from our apartments and we were so far removed from it, like intellectually.


I see when my when I got into Boston University, I found out in the same I found it in the admissions office with my mom because we went to go look at apartments in case I got in and we decided to stop at BYU. And they told me I got in and my mom looked at me and went, wow, how did that happen?


So I go to Harvard and I were just let's just put it this way. I didn't even try applying to Harvard.


We weren't invited to apply to Harvard ever by anybody. That's not that wasn't even on the table. Probably not on the radar, no.


So she was accepted on a full scholarship to Harvard. And a former teacher described her as the pearl of her school, her high school. However, this kind of became problematic, which seems to happen to a lot of people who start at a school like Harvard after being kind of the best at their high school and being the pearl or the special one.


They go to a place like Harvard and it's sort of a wake up call like everybody is top of their class. You're you're one of many you're not the special right.


Reino special as you were in high school anymore. And so I guess she had a little bit of a shock, culture shock in that way. She struggled to keep up academically at first and she was extremely isolated. So she grew up pretty isolated. But at least like had her family and, you know, knew her high school classmates in that kind of thing. But she showed up at Harvard and felt completely isolated. And actually she became so desperately lonely that she got to the point where she started sending letters to strangers, like on the phone book, and she would just write letters randomly to people in the phone book and pleaded with them to befriend her, which is just really heartbreaking.


Yeah, that's really sad. And yeah, and this is also part of why the story is just very dark is like you just see what's building up to the murder suicide and it's like somebody should have done something or or stepped in it.


So the behavior was off early on. Yeah. And like it was just so many cries for help and nobody cries for help. Yes. No.


So in her letters she wrote to strangers from the phone book she wrote, Year after year, I became lonelier and lonelier. I see friends deserting me. They would take every chance to show me they did not have any love or respect for me. High school turned out to be even worse. If I went earlier, left late, I would be roaming the yard or deserted hallways alone while other students roared with laughter or talked their heart out. Standing in groups home was not a comforting place.


I swallowed my pain and anguish just as my siblings did to theirs. I was so lonely, but I hung on tight because I wanted to come to the states in search of a solution. So finally she had gotten like what she worked so hard for. And she arrives in the States. And is still feeling completely isolated, so it didn't like it almost made her problem worse, right? Feeling left out. Wow.


OK, so one woman actually responded to the letters and she wanted she was like, OK, like, I'll reach out, I'll reach back and talk to you. But apparently she became so alarmed by the bizarre writings and recordings that seem to do started sending her that she cut off contact. So that didn't last. And then another woman found a letter, obnoxious, quote unquote, and sent it, which is like, OK, fuck you. All right.


Yeah. And sent it to a friend who worked at Harvard to review.


And so literally at this point, Harvard has these letters and it knows that she's writing these things and does nothing.




So there's like fool proof that they this early on already knew they were aware of something.


Yeah. Mm hmm.


So although the letter was deemed to have been read by both the dean of the university and another university official, nobody ever contacted seem to do about it. Never asked if she was OK. Nobody ever said anything to her at all.


And it was filed away and quickly forgotten about until suddenly it was very relevant down the line.


Hmm. So no one intervened. Obviously, nobody provided her with any sort of help that she clearly needed at this point. And after her freshman year, senator's roommate told her she would no longer be rooming with her. So sophomore year, senior who got a roommate by the name of Trango, and this becomes the victim in the story at age 10.


So now I'm going to just give you a little background on Trang Tran Phuong, who had escaped from the communist oppression in Vietnam on a fishing boat with her father and sister. And they'd actually done this once before when she was a baby, but she had fallen overboard.


Oh, of the boat. Yeah. And her so her parents were like her dad was like, let's wait till she's older. So when she was 10, they did it again and were able to escape to Indonesia, where she learned English in makeshift classrooms in a refugee camp and only a few years after she arrived in the United States. This is really incredible. Boston magazine chose her along with Governor William Felde and a cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church as one of 25 people who can save Boston.


Whoa. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. She was literally named among, like, old white men as one of the people who could save the city of Boston, whatever.


That that's crazy. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So what an achievement. And she basically at the time was working as a volunteer at the Spaulding Rehabilitation Center. She was tutoring Vietnamese refugees, supporting her mother and sisters by holding down two jobs while attending Boston Technical High School. So she was among sixteen thousand high school seniors who applied to Harvard and only two were given perfect scores by the University University's admissions committee. And she was one of them.


So she was kind of in a similar boat of like full ride to Harvard. Big plans going to be a doctor, change the world, save Boston, save.


But listen, I didn't think it was possible for Boston to be saved. So I a pretty incredible article saved Boston from itself.


I didn't even know the problems. Yeah.


And the sad thing is, you know, she obviously passed away. And what do you think this cardinal saved? Boston is right. This Catholic priest? I don't think so. Right. At least not by the time we got there. So very sad. But yes. So she was valedictorian of her high school. And in her valedictorian address, she said, you decide where your life is going, whether you are going to make a difference or not.


For me, I will make many differences. Oh, so, yeah, she's just an incredible, incredible woman at Harvard. She also had a tough time because she she faced that same issue of showing up, being like listed as one of the top people in Boston. And all of a sudden she's there with people who also were, you know, in their towns. Maybe we're going to save their town. I don't know. But we're the same kind of caliber of student right.


As she was. So she she had like an A minus to B plus average. So she was doing OK, but she was kind of struggling a bit. Since her freshman year at Harvard, she'd worked in a research laboratory at the Dana Farber Cancer Institute, which is like a really top level place.


And she had appeared as co-author of a paper in the journal Genetics. So can you imagine you and I would be the biggest dumb asses at Harvard. It would be like a movie like Dumb and Dumber. But I'm worse.


I'm trying to think of, like, going to a dinner party and having to have a conversation with people. Oh, my God. Where they're embarrassing and what do you do? And I'd be like, don't it's it's OK. We don't have to talk.


We'd be like they'd be like, what magazine were you listed as the crucial person to save the world?


And we'd be like, well, one time, like BuzzFeed put us on a list like, no, I feel like I don't know.


Sometimes my mom tunes and we were on a billboard, but we had to pay for it. Yeah, I know. Because we have like issues.


Yeah, yeah. So basically she's fuckin killing it. And her professor said in one of his meetings with her that she came and said she was. No longer a star, but that was OK because she had gotten into a very good lab and I'm like, girl, you're still a star, trust me, like you're just in a different caliber of people where you don't realize how much you stand out.


But like you stand out, imagine all of those credentials and those accolades and being like, I mean, I'm not that great.


It's like, you know, that reminds me totally, though, of like of like imposter syndrome where it's just so difficult for a lot of people. Cough, cough us to to feel like, oh, you're successful at something because it's like, oh, I'm just faking it. Or I'm not as good as all the other people in the same situation. Right. So it really shows you. But yeah.


So she's in a paper call, a journal called Genetics. That's like a freshman. Listen, and she's going to say Boston. Let's not forget that she's also going to save the entire city of Boston, that she's literally a superhero.


Isn't like Spider-Man sole job to protect New York. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So there you go. Incredible. So this is where their stories intersect and trying. Sophomore year got a new roommate named Synodal Tadesse.


So Xanadu do, for what it's worth, was incredibly fond of tranqs, was very excited, basically thought like finally I found friend that can be friends with. Exactly. And train herself was pretty popular and well-liked and outgoing. And so seniors started to become like really needy because she always kind of wanted to hang out, always needed attention.


And so Trink started to get a little bit like, I want my year. Your what is it?


Infiltrating my airspace? You're violating violating my airspace. You're violating my airspace.


If I could have said that in my freshman dorm.


I mean, Alyssa, I love our pal, but we had a three person dorm in a two person dorm. And it was a lot of and we were all very close, thank God.


But said, I'm going to go out there today a little bit. Yeah. Like she hasn't changed since college. I feel the same way you did.


I'm like, get out of bars.


I say that, but I'm like, no, she was definitely the one who felt that way about me. Who am I kidding? Like, I was the media.


I'm like, what's going on?


I, I can't imagine having to live in a like a 500 square foot room with you, like, oh my God.


And for the first time ever, like leaving the house and like what you're talking about, like is this normal. Like I was just eating pickled herrings and people were like this freaky girl covered in hair or what. A cereal, three kids.


Certainly something about being covered in hair. I remember her like finding you in the bathroom on the floors and. Yeah.


Oh that's right. That was when I actually overdosed. That was bad. But I joke about Alison. Well, let me talk about it. She gets really upset.


That was an accident. It really was. I had I had lost like thirty pounds on because of Crohn's disease.


And you didn't know you had Crohn's yet, right? I had just been diagnosed and they gave and I was like in so much pain that they gave me Percocet, which at this point my mom didn't allow me to have Tylenol when I was little, like even after wisdom teeth, everything, she would flush all the painkillers down the toilet. And so I was like, oh, OK, this is just for pain. And so they were like, take two to three pills every four hours.


And I was like, well, I'm in a lot of pain. So I took three. But they didn't really account for that. I'd never taken any painkillers. And B, I had lost like 35 or 40 pounds and was like decrepit. And so I took like three Percocet and I woke up at four in the morning and I couldn't see it was actually what it was. I thought I was dying. I was probably dying. And I crawled to the bathroom.


But all I could think of was like, oh, my God, I don't want to wake Alison.


She has her lab tomorrow morning. Like, I don't want to bother her.


And I mean, it's like the ultimate bullshit move of, like, boundry, like, I don't want to bother anybody.


And so she fell on the floor. So of people pleasing. Yeah, I was I was I tried to take my temperature, but then I was like, I can't see.


Like I'd fully lost my vision. I thought I was going to go blind and I just laid on the bathroom floor because the tile was cold on my face and I just sweated out all night and I really thought I was going to die.


I couldn't hear either. There was just like this high pitched ringing in my ears and so I couldn't see my phone. So I couldn't, like, call an ambulance.


You know what Homy that sounds like Florida.


Am I let me tell you this every time you tell me the story.


I know, but I think I'm finally hearing while thinking of my experience hearing your side of it. Yeah. I would always say, hey, and that happened to me.


And you were like Florida. I don't know.


I tried to tell you is the same thing or it sounded like the same thing. That's why I've told you the story so many times.


The first half of it feels like it's the second half of it really was like a really fucking gnarly cold, like a really terrible, terrible flu.


Yeah, well, you were sick, though, too. Like, I just had I mean, I was sick in a different way, but I still like flu anyway.


Yeah. Because I also lost my vision and all that. Yeah. It's really scary. Yeah.


So I anyway Alison was so, so funny because then she ended up having to skip class and drive me to the hospital anyway and they were like wow, you really fucking overdosed. And I was like I didn't know.


I followed the instructions on the thing and said, I'm still really scared of painkillers, which is probably good, but like sure. OK, sorry, that was like way off off topic. But anyway, and you were you were violating airspace and. Everyone is violating airspace I didn't want to violate her airspace, is my point, OK? I was like, I'm going to violate my own airspace in this bathroom until she finds me on the floor.


And she was like she she was like she was like, you're violating my airspace now. She was like, what did you think?


I wanted to wake up to a dead body. Would that have been better than you waking me up in the middle of the night to take?


I've never actually seen Allison, like, really angry at me until this day. And since then it's her.


Look, I've seen her mad. She is a scary person to get mad.


Yeah, she she knows when she's mad and it's usually for a good reason.


And you, Sariel, I love you. OK, thank you for taking me to the hospital. Sorry. OK, so sorry. This is so off topic. So anyway since they started to feel a train was starting to feel like you to do is being needy and it was becoming Off-putting and she was like OK, like you're violating my airspace. And during this time Cindy was also having a tough time with her academics.


She got an A in biology where she worked with prominent researchers at Beth Israel Hospital investigating the human immunodeficiency virus in monkeys.


You know how we all did was in college. Yeah, I remember that class and her professors explained that although I do like training and many other students discovered she wasn't an academic star anymore, she was maintaining a B average with no difficulties. However, a B average was going to keep her out of like top medical schools. It was just wasn't at the level where you would get into, I don't know, like a top, top, top rated medical school coming from Harvard.


At least that's what they believed. So another senior who lived next door to training and seemed to do at this time said they both complained when the dorm was noisy. They spent most of their time like by themselves studying. They would call up or bang on the door if we were talking. They were polite, but they were just really quiet. So, you know, they weren't like partiers weren't really social with people on their floor. And in a New York Times article, it said When Misho and Misted started rooming together, they certainly seemed well matched, which this is also a little bit problematic in my mind.


But I'll read it anyway. Both had risen from humble circumstances, Miss Tadesse in Ethiopia and Misho in Vietnam, which is like just because two people are from a different country. Yeah. And grew up like with with in poverty or not even in poverty because she was really where the family was well off.


Yeah. And the whole family wasn't.


But so even more of a reason like why are you just lumping them together because they grew up in war torn countries like OK, but that doesn't mean that they're going to be friends. Yeah. So a lot of this story also reflects that, which I don't want to say. It's the nineties. But like growing up in the 90s, even my mom, who's like a white lady, got so much flak and was always called the nanny. And it was like because she had a German accent and it was like and she was white.


So it was so much less bad than a lot of people have it right. But even just everybody asking me if she was my nanny all the time because she had an accent. Like, I just I know how people were in the nineties and still are. But this just doesn't surprise me, I guess. Right. Right. So even though seeing it, it was like I thought the world of training, training did not really feel the same way, but she kept it to herself.


She was a nice girl. She wasn't like mean to her or anything, but tried to keep her distance.


So by the point where they needed to decide whether they were rooming together or not, Trang told Nina Dos she had decided to room with another group of girls the following year.


So she had to tell to, I don't want to live with you next year.


It's always awkward. Been there? Yes, yes, it's always awkward, but it's way more awkward in the scenario because, well, we know how it ends.


So she told me to do she wasn't going to live with her. She's going to live with a different group of girls in senior Xanadu.


Did not react well to this. So a week before the murder, an anonymous note was sent to the Harvard Crimson newspaper, along with a picture of Siena Do and the note read, keep this picture. There will soon be a very juicy story involving this woman.


Oh, later, through DNA tracing, it was discovered that cenote who had sent this picture and note herself?


Oh, well, yeah.


OK, well, so a fellow student in her physics course had seen her in the library the Tuesday before their physics exam and he said you could see she was stressed out, she couldn't seem to study and her face was very worried. But at the same time, it's like it's Harvard finals week.


I'm sure everybody looks stressed out and like, if anything you would like, you would notice the person who didn't look like he was you with me on Harvard's campus.


I'd be like, yeah, I'm like, who wants to get Burrito's? It's like it's finals week. Yeah, you and I would have been the ones who were like, God, these two are fucking clowns over here.


Do you want your Brunos is probably the most spoken phrase I said in college on a daily basis, which is why I'm always amazed that we weren't friends in grad school.


I'm like the world really try to keep us apart because I really don't know how on earth that didn't happen either. Because also I like in in grad school, I made a point to like try to approach people, like ask them to like, go out and get some. That's how I became friends with Christine Maden because. Yeah, I. Literally was like, I don't know you, but do you want to go get lunch with me? Well, you know me.


I'm always fuckin like anxious and depressed, so I try to avoid people as often as possible. So I'm sure I saw you being friendly.


And I like red alert. I'm going to hide. So that's probably precisely what happened. I probably knew you were very friendly and went, Oh, I'm scared.


And it was it would have been I would have been asking you to commit to a friendship. Yeah. I don't like that.


Or commit to even going to get burritos, which it's a lot to ask.


I know it. I know I got to put on pants to leave the house.


OK, anyway, so she ended up taking one of her finals, but then she got medical exemptions for the other two. And during one of the exams she was supposed to take, she actually went on a brunch date with a fellow Ethiopian student. And later on he realized that she had this brunch with him to say goodbye before she would take her own.


Oh, shit.


So she it was just that kind of behavior where you don't realize until, you know, hindsight is 20/20 of like, oh, dear, I now see what she why she was acting strange and all that.


On the Saturday when she was supposed to be taking her physics exam, she was sitting in her room crying the whole time, according to Tao, who was the visiting friend who was there to help train move out and seated his younger brother, who was actually at Dartmouth, still in hindsight, had trouble admitting that she had anything going on.


Apparently, she had called him at midnight a few hours before the murderer or before the murder. And apparently he was probably the last person she spoke to. And he still later said like, oh, no, she seemed fine, which is like, well, OK, I guess. But I don't know the.


We'll get to that. Yeah, but so like I said, Tadesse had purchased the hunting knife in advance. And that Sunday morning she at eight a.m., she murdered her roommate Trang. Wow. And then took her own life.


In the days after the murder, it was generally speculated that Tadesse had resorted to violence because Ho had asked not to run with her again in the fall. However, like Scenery's family said, no, she's the one who didn't want to room with Trang.


Mm. I don't know.


It's kind of hearsay, I guess. Or she said, she said OK, but basically the, the general implication was oh tranqs and I don't want to room with you and do flipped out and killed her. Yeah but yeah. Yeah.


So this became obviously like a huge scandal in Boston media. In an article in The New York Times, it was reported one student who asked not to be identified said she knew Misho had been trying to find a different roommate next year because Miss Tiddas would play music too loud and was inconsiderate of her privacy. But again, you never know with these things of like whether people are just like interviewed and they're like, oh, yeah, I heard this. Or I knew her because they had like a lab with her or something, you know?


I mean, like. Right.


I hesitate to trust everything that people report in the newspapers, especially because later a lot of people say they were Cindy's friend.


And like it's kind of like she was very clear she didn't have a boyfriend, if anything is understood about the story, that she didn't have a friend. So. Right.


So I find out her sometimes hard to believe. Like, how much is this being spun? How much are people just kind of like wanting to be involved with the story? So it's hard. It's hard to know. But another report said in the New York Daily News said The Boston Globe reported that Tadesse had sent a letter to HOH last month that indicated she felt abandoned, which I do believe that because she was known for sending letters to people to express her loneliness.


And apparently the note said, I thought we were going to do stuff together. You'll always have a family to go to and I'm going to have no one. So she really felt abandoned by train because she was like, I finally have a roommate, a friend. And then I was like, nope, I'm going to my other group of friends.


And she felt like I mean, it's not hard to put two and two together of like I mean, she was so desperate for her friends. She was writing to strangers. And then she finally found someone she thought she had like enough similar interests with. Yeah. Like something could happen. Yeah. And then all of a sudden this person's like I have other people I'd rather live with. I mean, talk about snapping. Yeah. Yeah.


I mean, it's, it's that classic like feeling rejected, rejected leading to, you know, with everything else obviously building up.


Obviously it had trained train was not at fault by any means, but it's sort of like no it was like, it was like a long time coming and she just happened to be the the totally the one the one to really make an erratic behavior. Presentence. Yes, exactly.


It was sort of like a long fuse. And then finally it went off. And she didn't know, obviously, that this would happen.


Right. Because who would? So she just felt completely abandoned.


And according to Cindy's father, he was a retired high school principal back in Ethiopia. And he said his daughter never indicated that she was unhappy at Harvard or with her roommate. He said there is no friction or divorce in our family, which is not I mean, I don't know.


I'm like, there is a mind, but OK.


So, yes, I'm guilty of that. Is that nice, humble brag, I guess. Yeah. Like, congratulations. But ultimately, Taryn's family understandably thought Harvard could have done more to prevent their beloved daughter's death, and in 98, they filed a lawsuit against the school alleging wrongful death, conscious pain and suffering and emotional distress. They charged the university as well as the people in charge at Dunster House dormitory with negligence. And they felt that they had plenty of evidence that Kennedy was having a breakdown and could have prevented the deaths.


And interestingly enough, which I didn't realize, this apparently was not the first sign of extreme mental health issues among students affiliated not with Harvard necessarily, but with this dormitory.


So it's like seemingly coerced.


I mean, apparently in the prior the year prior to see to do suicide, three other Harvard students had taken their lives, two of whom lived in this dorm.


So literally the year before she took her own life, two other people had died by suicide in that same dorm. Yeah. And I do wonder, like, I don't know if this is a specific, like, honors dorm.


Maybe there's more pressure. I don't know anything about like what the specific dorm is. But this dorm seems to have some sort of.


Yeah, my story. It's like almost like if this wasn't so fresh and like, you know, we weren't talking about it for so long and no one could say if this happened years and years and years and years and years ago, it's like the recipe for, like, you know, spooky stories coming out of it. Yeah.


Yeah. It's like you hear of somebody who died in a dorm and that's why it's haunted. And now it's like, well, it keeps happening over and over again. Yeah, it makes you wonder. Yeah. So three people died by suicide the year before at Harvard. Two of them lived in this dorm room or the dormitory.


A few months before the murder suicide, a 1994 graduate of Harvard who had also lived at Dunster House died by suicide. And a week after that, a student who lived off campus was all but was affiliated with Dunster House. Dormitory also died by suicide.


So this place just has a connection to a lot of dark, dark events and in response to suicide suicides before s.. To do so, the other ones that occurred beforehand, the Crimson staff called for change in Harvard's mental health offerings through an editorial piece in the newspaper. And in 1994, according to this plea, making an appointment to see a mental health professional took 10 to 15 days on average. And students who were in need of long term therapy were often referred to outside hospitals because they didn't feel that this was part of the university health plan.


So it was sort of like you didn't have many options. And if you did find you did access it, it took over two weeks sometimes to even find someone to help you, which obviously with mental health concerns, we know sometimes you need much more urgent. A few weeks, two weeks is a lot of time. Terloy, time to get help.


And at that point, like, clearly you're jumping through hoops. So who knows if you're in a position to even have the stamina to deal with that and health limitations. So this is just really kind of showing the underbelly, I guess, of the the lacking services here.


Shining a light, Harvard shining a light on it. Yes. Yes.


It's almost like the issues manifesting in a really horrible, horrible way. So for starters, when St2 initially arrived at Harvard as freshmen, Harvard apparently offered nothing except for a two hour orientation for foreign students. So they just put him in a room, give him a two hour orientation, said good luck and finally set them on their own. There wasn't a support group.


There wasn't like a, you know, special advisor or anything for people moving from outside the country. It just kind of like this is I mean, the fucking orientation we got in L.A. was probably more like, here's what winter is.


We literally had a class called like Life in L.A. or something. Yes, we did like the whole semester, like it was like for attendance. If you if you went all the time, like your attendance was basically the only thing you were getting graded on, it was just to make sure everyone was like it was a way for them to like weekly rally us together and make sure we were all OK, like OK, like hadn't driven off the high five by accident.


Yeah. Yeah. Like knew we had to drive a car in a Los Angeles. Yeah. Yeah. So they didn't even have anything besides like one orientation and then they were kind of set off their own. That's just a good example. And then once in it you did try to flag her mental illnesses. What she did, she was offered therapy sessions with a doctor of education. So like a she rather than a therapist one day a month. However, this is pretty disturbing.


Shortly before the murder suicide, the doctor or the professor, whoever was seeing her, tried to reach her, but not because he sensed anything was off, because he wanted to cancel their next appointment, which again, was only once a month. So you can just see that this is not going to be helpful. Yeah. Can you imagine canceling that appointment and then a few days later finding out? Not that obviously this.


I know, I know. To blame, but like. No, but to be like a human to human, it's very it's interesting to be like, oh, wow. Like that person really needed help. That must have been like, yeah. The guilt alone of like but no, the guilt alone, whether or not I mean it wasn't their fault but. The guilt of being like, wow, they needed help and I just cancelled, yeah, and, you know, like, I couldn't imagine being that person who is responsible for giving these therapy sessions.


They're probably overloaded with tasks because there is no real therapy offered. So it's like right now they're responsible for all these students. It's not their job. So, like, I can understand how it's just a bad system for everybody involved. Yeah. So, yeah. Anyway, as we can probably expect, however, did not like these accusations that they were not doing enough for mental health. An esteemed former dean of the college named John Fox was among those who, quote, didn't appreciate the jabs at the university.


And he's been quoted in response to another student who pleaded with him about receiving counseling and medication, saying, I have received my medical care from the university for over 40 years and I'm entirely satisfied. And you're a tax on all things Harvard are tiresome. If you don't like it here, go away.


Whoa. OK, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool down, Johnny Boy. And this apparently was not an unusual response in response. You seem to do tadesse to deceases situation. Solares SolarReserve. One would think that this kind of a tragedy after so many other suicides, you think, well maybe they took this time to kind of reflect and say like OK, there's a pattern, there's a problem. But no, their response was short and accusatory.


The dean of the college was quoted as saying, In a case of this complexity, we prefer to centralize information. Everyone is looking for a villain and we don't want to be it. So they were basically on the defense from the get go. But there is a woman named Melanie Thernstrom who had graduated from Harvard in 87, and she was actually a professor in creative writing who ended up publishing an analysis of the murder, and it was called Halfway Heaven Diary of a Harvard Murder.


So she basically wrote a book about this murder as a Harvard grad herself and is a professor of creative writing at Harvard.


Now, there this is also problematic in its own way, because this is not me saying this. I have not read this book, but people have said that although it does give an insight into Tadesse quote, Thernstrom never lets you forget that she is a Harvard insider and she cannot resist bringing her own experience onto the scene. So that's kind of the review this book has gotten, which got it.


We've gotten way shittier reviews on iTunes that I don't like to abide by. So I'm not saying that's the truth, but that's just the reception it got. Got it.


So let's see. Thernstrom Melanie Thernstrom was initially drawn to the case because she sympathized toward Tadesse is kind of outcast status and it was clear she had been suffering mentally.


However, ironically enough, Senju had actually applied to be in Melanie Thernstrom creative writing class. But Thernstrom called, said she didn't accept her into her course because her writing was boring, which is like how much we're OK.


That's harsh, but OK, I'm nice.


No, not really. So it's also weirdly contrasted because in the book, Thernstrom uses all of Cindy's old journals as like her writing to reference it and say, like, look at her troubled soul. And it's like, oh, she wasn't good enough for your class until she. Yeah, now it's relevant.


It's a little I feel like you've put yourself in a situation where you don't get to use that book as part of your curriculum.


It's almost and it gets worse, like it gets way more just problematic. So anyway, so she read the journals as part of her research into the book, and this is pretty fucked up. The New Yorker actually sent Melanie Thernstrom to Ethiopia unannounced.




And she fucking showed up on the family's doorstep.


Oh my God. Why? And they obviously were like, utterly shocked that this white lady just showed up and said, I'm writing a book about your daughter. Can I have her journals? Like that was what happened.


Absolute fucking Luly not that's just like the like the fucking God fucking unearned confidence to, like, just show up without warning to get a better story. It's so fucked up because they they could have warned the family and said, do you mind if we come and visit after your daughter was just savagely, you know, thrown into this horrible media frenzy and died by suicide.


And it's just awful.


So she spent her time in Ethiopia trying to get to know, seem to do more. She dove into salinities, personal diaries, which she got her hands on. And in comparison to what she had said about the writings that C.A.T. had submitted for her creative writing class, she said that her journals displayed uncanny capacities for self-expression and self-analysis. She left behind an extraordinary record, that of an intelligent, insightful, strong willed person using all those capacities to fight as hard as she could for mental health and losing it just all seems a little bit I don't even know the right word showy like using it for your own benefit.


I don't know. It just feels icky to me.


I don't know what the right word is either. But you're right. I mean, it's awful. Yeah. It's like not your fucking place first.


No, no. And like to put the family in that position. Yeah. It's just kind of gross. Which I'm also blaming The New Yorker who sent her there. I'm not saying like, oh, this is all her fault.


There are a lot of people involved in this, but it just seems like there's a general lack of awareness for this suspect.


Yes, yes. Yes. On so many different levels like mental health, like even just grief.


Like your family grief. Yeah. Yeah, like, yeah. International custom and saying like, oh, they're the same person because they come from two different countries. Oh yeah. That too on that level. Like xenophobia. Yeah.


So anyway, the right her writings, she had a lot of these spiral bound journals, they kind of revealed a lot of her deteriorating sanity. She fantasized about an ideal friend. She talked about her inability to obtain psychiatric care, apparently.


So this is also this is also very kind of gross. Is this is what Melanie Thernstrom wrote in her book after she after she showed up at this family's door and took all their journals, their daughter's journals, she said, we see that CEDO burned in a private hell of loneliness, more profound than most of us can imagine. She never felt loved. And it seems like that she was, in fact, not loved and so did not have an ability to feel love or to relate to others.


And even the most fundamental way, she could not feel her heart. And she knew it, as she put it, in her hopeless public letter.


I am like a person who can't swim choking for life in a river. Oh, my God.


I'm like you just said her family did it. Love her after you showed up on their doorstep and demanded her private journals.


But fucking insult a voice. Yeah. Hey, you're your kid, Dad. Also, let me take some of the most personal items from your home that belonged to her. And also, you didn't love her.


And I'm going to let everybody know that you're fucking garbage and you're the reason she's incapable of love and murdered someone. But look at how great I am.


But look at this article that's being written like I mean, it's it's everything that's I kept in that review, not because I was like, oh, yeah, I agree because I don't know, I've never read it, but because I was like, that's an interesting angle to the rest of the story.


Like that people are like she talks about going to Harvard all the time, like, I don't know, I thought it was an interesting angle on this.


So in another entry, somebody had tried to teach herself ways to make people like you. She wrote herself in the third person with instructions like do not show what you really think, put on a mask or listen to inspirational tapes. And when the tips didn't work out, she anguished about what she called her heart failure thing and she felt, quote, dead. And it is hard to warm myself up. So when she met Trang in the journals, you can see that she believed she'd finally found a friend, someone she can have a genuine relationship with.


So when she was rejected, that was too much for her to bear and she, quote unquote, snapped for lack of a better term. Sure.


So at one point, Thernstrom says she empathized with senior saying that while at Harvard, she also kept diaries and said, in college, I was so fearful my roommates would read my diaries. I wrote certain passages in ecclesiastical Latin.


OK, that's the most halvah thing I've ever fucking heard, though.


I know what it's like, really. I would literally if I had to write something.


Cornelia Pumla s Agricola, if I that would be my fucking journal entry over and I would literally just be like normal English, except A is B and B is C and C.


C, yeah.


Pig Latin B like no one will ever.


And I would like every letter would be a different emoji or something like it would be so easy to crack a code that I sometimes I would literally write like.


So I thought a journal entry recently that said di tragedy. And it was a it was a lyric of Billy talent.


And I thought I was just really deep and it was like, run me over with your truck, something that really emo.


And then the page before I wrote, Mom, if you are reading this, you should not be reading this. I will. No, I will know if you read this.


And like, my mom didn't read my journals because she really, quite frankly, wasn't that interested for obvious reasons.


But like that was my attempt at keeping them away. I was like, do not read it.


Or I don't know that you read what deep, dark secret, what a threat of like you better thank your lucky fucking stars.


I chose to let you live and then I would I know like you better watch out. I have control here and then I would leave it on the living room table next to my like empty talk.


But you would do the Gemini and you did that on purpose, hoping to lure someone and so you could yell at them so she could be like, why are you writing run me over with your truck?


I feel like it's my favorite song. You knew that about me is Mom.


This is who I am. It's our fate. Well, and also, if you knew me at all, you know that Billy Talent is my favorite.


Oh yeah.


Anyway, so here we go. OK, anyway, so the most shocking extreme thing of all is one of the final statements in these journals that Melanie Thernstrom discovered which read The Bad Way Out Is Suicide. The Good Way is killing savoring their fear than suicide. So you can just see that she had, like, devolved into just like this is the only option left for me.


So as far as I'm concerned, there were several people who had a duty as a student. Of Harvard, but they had a duty to knowing that she was struggling, having like evidence of these letters she was writing to strangers, saying she was desperate and lonely, like they I think they had a duty to to help her see something, say something. Yeah, they're responsible for her.


She's in their care. Yeah. So obviously, she needed help. And a lot of this I want to be clear as well, this is why it's problematic is because I am not at all saying this is excusable, that it wasn't his fault that she killed. I mean, I'm not saying that at all. Obviously, this was not the way to go. And I just think that there were a lot of things that could have been done to hopefully prevent both of these deaths.


And, yeah, there's no excuse for murdering anyone, your roommate or anyone. There's no excuse. So I'm not saying like, well, we can excuse it or explain it. There's just there's just a really sad story leading up to it that kind of sheds light on to why this happened. Right.


And that clearly something needs to change or needed to change.


So there's there's a lot of argument online about this as far as like, well, she was mentally ill, but that doesn't excuse murder. But someone should have helped her. But also that doesn't give her the right. So there's a lot of back and forth. Sure. And so part of the problem in my mind is that the two girls became kind of one like they became kind of linked in this story as like equal victims, which I do believe they're victims in different ways.


But train was just like stabbed to death by a roommate. Like, she's right.


I just don't think her family thought it was fair to say, oh, they were both equally victimized. Did I what I'm saying, like, no, I totally agree.


And also, I mean, I, I mean, I don't it's so hard to talk about this.


It's like it's a tough spot because you want to respect the the the person who died. Yes. And did not deserve that at all. But I also think there is space to talk about mental illness. Yes. Yes. I know that if you know, fingers crossed, this isn't how I go. But if someone who was mentally unstable is the cause of my death, one day I would want people to be able to, like, you know, separate the situation.


Yes. Yes, Your Honor, the fact that that I left, but also like that doesn't mean that someone didn't need help or two really terrible things wouldn't have happened, you know? Yes.


Yes. Completely. Like, they're not. They're not. Oh, God, no. I'm forgetting the English word, you know, me and my English, but they're not mutually exclusive help.


But I'd help. But I also don't speak for. So that's true. But I like it. But like. Yeah, I mean, it would because like if something happened to you, I wouldn't want to feel like I wasn't taking the time to to focus on what had happened to you. But I would also be aware the like had there been a system in place or a better a better way of going about. Yes. Where we paid attention to the person who needed help.


Yes. Then two people wouldn't be in a really right and dark space. Right. Right, exactly. And they're not mutually exclusive in the way that there are two tragedies here or maybe even more that intertwined, but aren't necessarily like hand in hand the same thing. Right. And aren't necessarily completely separate. It's like there's just a lot of tragedy woven into this on different levels. But trying herself is a murder victim here. And like that, you know, has to be recognized as well as far as I'm concerned.


So. Yeah, exactly. And so I'm just gonna read this quote because I think it is a good way of explaining it. So in Thernstrom spoke, she says a peculiar discourse developed on campus in which rather than being viewed distinctly as murder and victim, the girls were recalled in one breath as if their deaths were the result of some unfathomable blood. Right, like a suicide pact, about which no one could say who was to blame or where the evil lay.


So it's almost like they blurred as far as like the perpetrator and the victim, because there is the perpetrator was also a victim in a way. Right. But on different levels. So to a certain extent, I believe Harvard was to blame for what happened to senior news devolving mental health, or at least not helping and not stepping in when they had a duty by opinion to help. So in 1999, the London Review of Books reviewed Melanie's book and said the Harvard administration were just protecting their own interests, basically, and that it seemed like no one took interest in seeing a do because they couldn't distinguish between psychotic behavior and Ethiopian behavior.


So they basically were saying like, well, they were foreigners and people just didn't know if they were foreign or if they were psychotic. It's like that is so Cedefop likely horrendous?


Like I don't even know where to begin with assessing that, if you would like. Oh, well, we didn't know if we should, like, tend to murderous activity because that might just be social norms in another culture. Yeah, exactly. Like that. Normal. You guys should, if that's what you if you genuinely think about Ethiopians, then why aren't sorry? Like, why on earth did you have Ethiopians on your campus if you thought that they're just, you know, casually killing?


Probably because it looked good for numbers and diversity. You know, it's like so you want all these people to join your school and then you're like, anyway, good luck out there. Here, here's another student now. You guys can get along. It's like, oh, yeah.


If you really think people that you're inviting for the sake of diversity and numbers, if you really think they're more inclined to kill people and then you're still only giving them no therapy or be psychotic right up to our orientation and saying good fucking luck. First of all, you don't get to be shocked that something like this happened and you don't get to feel sorry about it. But also, that's literally not how it works.


It's like not even it's just it's just a ridiculously pathetic excuse. And so that I could find such a horribly racist and pathetic defense that doesn't stand doesn't hold water at all.


And so it's just pretty troubling. And the same review also talks about the racism in tranqs case, saying that university records show that training in a mild mannered way seems to have sought help repeatedly to escape Synod's attentions. Here we go with the victim blaming. Ready? This part really upset me. Had she been less sympathetic toward her increasingly disturbed roommate, she would have insisted on a change of friends long before she finally did. Trango.


She. I'm sorry. So she didn't fight hard enough? No. No, she didn't.


Yeah, she was too mild mannered of a lady to have a girl to see.


So you teach people to like to teach women to be sweet and kind and not people, please. And that also. Oh well they people please too much. And they didn't. They didn't. They should have stood up for themselves.


You're not going to like this line. Treinta was doomed by her foreignness.


She didn't express herself in ways who wrote this might. It's great grandpa. I like it was a really gross.


She didn't express herself in ways that Harvard administrators understood. She was conciliatory and agreeable and nobody bothered to understand her situation.


It's like, OK, they couldn't understand that. I mean, it's it's it's so trouble. It's so bad. It's like I don't even know how to begin.


I mean, oh my God, that's I like to think everyone Gaffey with us when we were I like to think there's a bunch of people screaming in there and they're like silently shaking in their office.


Cat just ran away like, yeah, mom, wow. That is so fucking angry.


And it's like so infuriating because again, it's just like lumping them together, not just because they're both victims, but because they're both foreign. And it's like that on so many levels. This is just egregiously disrespectful. And so anyway, this is the end. I know this has gone really long, but to sort of conclude, apparently there was discussion on campus about having a joint scholarship, which they called which one review called a McJob kind of political correctness, because they were like, let's just name the scholarship after both of them, which is like, can you imagine her parents like learning she and her murder, her daughter and her murderer were linked in like the same scholarship.


But there was a lot of debate over this. And apparently eventually they only picked or only created a scholarship in tranqs. Trang Ho's name, and it's now called the Trango Public Service Fellowship. And then in 2000, a Crimson article noted the five year anniversary of their deaths alongside discussion of additions to Harvard's offerings after the tragedy. So you mandated mandated that first time appointments be scheduled within seven days, increased emergency hours and staffing, and changed its hours to better fit students schedules.


In addition, mental health liaison tutors were installed in each house and empty suites were set aside as safe places, which I also think is a really, really great addition to mental health offerings.


So that is the story.


It's like I said, really, it's hard to say a a trigger warning because it's it's it's the normal concept, but it's just like really the trigger warning.


There was like fucking ignorance and racism. Yes. Yes. That too. I don't even think to add that. Yeah. Oh, and I just want to add I don't I didn't even write this in my notes, which now I'm embarrassed about. But I do want to list the number for the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, which is one 800 273 8255. And you can talk to somebody anytime, 24/7. You can also Google, Google a number or website if you don't if you have an anxiety like me and chat online.


So, yeah, that's the story. It's really dark. It's really upsetting.


And it's not even that long ago, you know, 95 like and like that long. I know you said this already about like, quote, people were different in the nineties, but it's like first of all, I have a lot of thoughts about that. But if people were that different and we have changed that much in the amount of time, that it's embarrassing that, like, we could have done that so much.


Yeah, well, but, you know, I was thinking about this yesterday because I was like, wow. Like, because if you think like, oh, the 90s, it doesn't seem that long ago. But if you think about it, it was like 30 years ago, and so now you to think about the 40s versus the 70s, like the amount of social change that happened in that time period or the 70s to the 2000s, like if you think about it in that, I think to us it doesn't seem long ago because we were alive.


But if you think about it in historical context, it's like, of course, things were different. Generations were growing up like it's really different.


No, I totally I totally get it. But yeah, it's because we were alive, because in my mind, like, all the darkest things that happened were when I wasn't here yet.


And it's like a ride on a sun beam of light and the world changed. And I saved Boston. No, by like I know like it's hard priests.


It's very it's really sobering to realize, like, oh no, I was alive during I mean, like it's so obvious, like, yeah, I was alive when dark should happen. I mean, hello millennial. Like every fucking year. Something terrible literally.


But they're 9/11. But like it's just it's it's so much easier to separate yourself from it when you can blame it on the fact that it was forever ago and you were a different generation. You weren't you weren't a you didn't have any control part of it. Yeah.


And now well, OK, if you think about it like this, the only reason that I've been kind of making this connection is that my sisters in high school now and she's only 14 years younger than me and her high school experience compared to mine is so wildly different.


She has friends who are trans. She has friends who are like, you know, all different backgrounds, socioeconomic classes. And I'm just like, this was not how I grew up. This is not how my high school experience was granted.


I went to a different high school, but it's just so cool to see like, oh, this is a completely different upbringing and like, you know, experience in school.


As a teenager, I was just thinking about this, too, because my cousin was asking me about, like, you know, being queer, you know, well well, why don't you come out when you were in high school and I was like, you didn't fuck that. Like there was no oh, I'm just going to go tell mom. I'm going to go down the fucking steps, tell people like I'm gay or something like you don't know.


No, no, no. Like you waited until you graduated high school. So if you got kicked out of your house, you were already on your way somewhere else anyway. Yeah. Like you didn't know anybody else. They were like, well, didn't you have, like, role models? And I was like, no, literally. You want to know the role model I had for the gay community growing up was Rosie O'Donnell and the wife, the ex-wife of Ross on Friends.


Those are the only two people I know.


I remember when I was six, the the the Rosses ex-wife on friends was the gay conversation I had with my mom.


And it was scandalous. I was like, what is gay mean? And I remember my mom giving a very short answer and like being like, oh, sometimes it just wasn't relevant.


Sometimes men love men, sometimes women love women. And then I and then I didn't hear about it again until I was in high school and thinking like shit. I think I'm the ex-wife from friends like yeah.


It's like, oh I fucking hardly remember that. But it is wild when I think about it. And I mean I don't want to say it like this, but when you're selfishly putting yourself in the scenario, it means more. And so I do think like Yeah. Thirty years ago, like do you know how much better my fuckin life would have been if I could have just come out and did I mean, like there are reasons why I didn't even have a first kiss until I was like nineteen.


And it was because I couldn't kiss any I wanted to kiss in high school. I mean, it's just wild that, like, I'm so happy for the future generations and the queer world, but also I'm so fucking jealous and you have no idea how lucky you are. I just. But I feel like it's.


Yeah. And I want to be clear to you, I'm not saying like, oh well it's so easy now to be, you know, no, I'm speaking specifically in my own world of like, queer.


I'm not even talking about like racism and all these, like, horrible things we've just covered. I just got into my own little tangent because I just had this conversation like twenty four hours ago. I was like, why the world is so different?


It's just so fascinating to see, like, my sister and be like, oh, she is such a broader view of the world and an understanding of of social concepts, because probably also increase in Internet, increase in like connecting with people that you wouldn't normally see in your day to day life.


And it's really yeah, it's sobering to be like in the nineties, my mom was the nanny and it was mortifying to always have to explain that she was my mother and she was divorced. So we weren't allowed to go to people's houses. And I lived near the quote unquote, bad part of town, so no one was allowed to come over. And it's just like now I'm thinking like my sisters, like, who gives a fuck? And I'm like, you're allowed to swear.


Like, I was willing to say hell.


Also, I was going to say, like like your sister's generation is so much smarter than we ever were to like. And maybe it's just like you said, like there's like Internet access and things that we don't have at that age. But like, I feel like anytime I talk to someone that's your sister's age, they just have so much more important shit to talk about than I ever did when I was that age. And I guess it really is just like there's so much more access to just learning faster.


And, like, I feel like I'm. A late bloomer and learning became so many people younger than us are just learning it, you know, just it's just part of life now and I feel like I'm catch playing catch up all the time.


I was like part of their upbringing and we had to do it on our own almost. And that's obviously not like a blanket statement.


I know a lot of people are we just not in each situation, but just looking at my sister, it's just like such a different, I don't know, experience. And I think it's great.


I just I have a lot of faith and I do, too. I know a lot of millennials have like a little of bitterness towards GenZE just because I think we're a little jealous. I'm not going to lie. I think I'm jealous for all the right reasons. So, like, I just wish I got same part of that generation.


And I think we going to be yeah, I think we all want to be because looking at them, I'm like, damn, we were I think we were the lot. We were like on the edge of, like, understanding. But like, I think our parents no offense, but I think, like, we got help. We either held ourselves back or got held back a little bit. And I think now it's so much more open and acceptable.


And obviously we were like, yeah, again, it's like, sorry not to interrupt you, but like I'm so on top of it with you of like, I feel like we were raised by, Yeah. Boomers and like even if they thought that they were like the hippies that were going to save everyone, it's like, OK, but then you gave you raised us. And like, we don't really have anyone to like to back us on all of our like our willingness for change.


And then GenZE showed up and they're like, no, no, no. Everything you were thinking, let's keep that going.


But yeah, it's almost like they took all our like we're just sitting here going, what's a mortgage? And they're like, give me the tick tock. I'm going to change the world. And we're like, OK, like we're stuck.


I feel like we're like an arrested development of like we're kind of like supposed to be grownups, but we're like, no, no, we want to help the teens. Like, it's like we're in a weird position.


So anyway, this is over three hours I'm sorry all and evaded me for editing, but no, but it's it's a it's a we're trying to say we think GenZE is going to save us thirty years ago is shockingly different than what today was. And I'm so glad, fingers crossed, that there are less issues than just issues like that that are so blatantly, horribly racist.


I feel like well, as I don't know because twenty twenty kind of the opposite. But yeah.


Well and yeah. And as a as a, as a as a globe, hopefully we're all learning that like we should be fucking better than that at the very least.


I mean at least there are some of us who recognize it which isn't enough.


But you know, the winning team, the winning team as I like to call it. Yeah. Anyway, so anyway, thank you guys for listening. Hopefully you've got some Joneses in your life who are helping you in your day to day. Just become better people. So that's that's all I've got. So I'm just here. Sorry, this episode is long. Racism fucking sucks. Sorry about racism.


Also my dad.


Can that be the title of this episode. But yeah, I don't know. I mean that was a really good story. It was definitely a thinker and a conversation piece for sure.


It's a toughie. So I hope I did it justice. But no, you did. I think you did. I think it was good. I mean, it's like really awkward conversations, but I think there it's good to have.


All right. I guess those are the ones to have. Yeah, it's a good job.


Good job, Christine. Thank you. And good job to you on that creepy UFO story.


If you guys want to find out more about us, you can go to and that's what you drink dot com or follow us the podcast or the M Schultz or Schiefer or Gross with three S's, not WS and otherwise, I think we're going to see you soon for listener episode.


Maybe that.


Yeah, no I don't, I don't know. I don't know anyone know. It comes out in two days. Tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow. OK, see you tomorrow for our listeners episode if you want more of this content. Yikes. Yikes.


And that's why we drink the amount of times we say yikes.