When we met, you were with McCona Hay.

Were you as excited to meet him as I was? I don't really know him, but I was in Austin, and then you and I are DMing, and then lo and behold, you're performing while I'm in Austin. Then I hit you up and I'm like, I want to come to your show. You're like, Great. How many tickets? I'm like, Bro, I think it's just me. I was so embarrassed. Then I don't know why, I was like, I'm going to fucking ask Matthew McConahe. He lives in Austin, and I invite him to your show. He doesn't know what I'm inviting him to. It was basically a blind date with McConahe, but then he was like, Where are you staying? You're on the Four Seasons? I'll be there seven o'clock, pick you up. I'll be in the white Lincoln Navigator look for me. So I'm like, now he's picking me up. I come down into the lobby of the Four Seasons, and I walk out, and sure enough, there's a white Lincoln Navigator, and he's outside leaning against the car. He's talking ballet. He's like, who's coming through here? Okay, we got a sorority week coming up. We got the mom's hair.

He's holding cars. Totally living up to my dream of what he is. We get in the car, we're on the way there. He goes, I'm excited to go here. I designed this arena we're going to. I haven't been. And I'm like, I haven't been. We get there. Now we're just watching stand-up. We can't really talk. So now we're just sitting next to each other. We don't really know each other. But he goes, You probably want to say hi to your buddy. Should we go backstage? You just start interviewing him. What are your political aspirations? So we're leaving there, and I'm like, That was a lot of fun. Also, we didn't really connect. There was no magic moment. It's a little bittersweet. We're leaving, we're walking in the car, and all of a sudden, he goes.

You do this really well. You're a great interviewer, but this is something specifically I think you do really well, is you make the guests so comfortable when you ask the hard questions. And the question was, what does it feel like when your movie bombs? But the way you set it up was there's no... He wasn't defensive. It was like genuine curiosity. It wasn't like, I got you.

Well, I also can come from the place of, I've had a ton of stinkers. I've had some hot bombs.

I didn't want to bring it up. Oh, that's good. Or maybe that's what I did.

That was good.

That was good. That was good.

That was good. That one happened. He just daxed me. How are we going to bring that up? You'll start with your bombs. It's a very, very unique experience to travel around the country, go on talk shows, tell everybody about this movie, basically tell the world, Hey, I've put my heart into this thing. And then Friday, you know if that was a complete waste of time. And then it's very public. The people I've interviewed that I've related most to is people who have run for public office, and then they lose the election. And they got to walk around their city and everyone's like, Hey, wish it'd gone your way. You feel like you're wearing a sign that says I lost everywhere you go. And by the way, no one gives a fuck. No one cares. They move on. If people see, if Americans see... I have a very specific example of how delusional I was. I went on Conan O'Brien, and I I had to go on Monday after the movie always opened. Pro tip, don't ever schedule that because you don't know how it's going to go. The whole weekend, I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm never going to work again.

And then I'm like, And I got to go on Monday and act like this. Everything's great. Which film was this one? For Chips, which I had written and directed. It was years of my life. And so I went on to Konan, and I had a shirt printed up that said, Number One Comedy in America, which it was because there was no other comedy He's out. And so this was going to be my whole bit. I'm leading Konan into saying, so number one movie, Comedy in America. But it wasn't number one, was it? I'm like, No, no. There was four or five others before. But I'm involved in this bit, and I'm feeling the reaction of the audience, and they're not getting it. And all of a sudden, I realized, oh, they don't know it bombed. They just saw posters and commercials.

So now you just look like you're bragging.

Yes, yes. They think I'm seriously celebrating this accomplishment. So I had to turn at one point and I go, Gang, the movie didn't do so high. It didn't perform. And I had to let the audience in on what bit I was doing.

Did you feel them stop hating you at that moment?

It wasn't even that they ever hated me. They were just confused because they, of course, didn't know it bombed. And once I told them it bombed, then they loved it. Why am I wearing this shirt? It was a big hit. But I left that going like, oh, yeah, ain't no one's thinking about you. They're not thinking about your movie. They're not reading the trades. They don't know when you ate shit. And I was just informed.

I have to look up very often if a movie did well, because I'll be curious and I have no clue. It could be movies that were popular. I'm like, did that actually make money? Did you ever do that?

Well, and also there are movies that we are all certain were huge hits, and they absolutely weren't. Like Shawshank Redemption. We all have seen Shawshank Redemption. That movie It made $8 million. Idiocracy. Idiocracy. This is hundreds of thousands. Not even millions.

What does that affect? It's called where you...

Dunning Kruger.

Wait, is that what it is?

No, that's where dumb people talk the most.

Me? This is Did he just get me?

Did he send me in a row? Did he just say you talk too much in your dark? He is fired. No.

Damn it. That was fantastic. I don't know who he's insulting right now.

Why did you ask him that question? I saw you. That's really good. He deserves all the money. You're I want to know about this effect, though. What was the effect? Yeah, talk more. It's not Streisend. Oh, the Mandela effect.

Mandela effect. Point is, we all remember Idiocracy, and we know about it now to be this incredible film, right? And there's predicting the future. And every time anything happens in our election, they're like, The Oasis. Look, they pointed it out. And then at the time, you were actually part of this. Yeah. Not to harp on movies that didn't do well. Oh, I'm happy to. But this Mike Judge, brilliant film that you're part of, it didn't do well, but I think we it as this sensational success.

Yeah. In fact, it only came out in, I want to say, 600 theaters. And that was because I think contractually, Mike Judge, he was guaranteed they had to release it in some amount. In a lot of theaters. But even when they released it, if you called Fandango back then, sometimes it was listed as Untitled Mike Judge Project, which no one's ever tried to buy a ticket to Untitled Mike Judge. Yeah, it wasn't even labeled correctly.

Mike Judge is Beavis and By Yeah.

Even probably with a similar trajectory, Office Space. Yes. Which that movie, again, we all have seen multiple times, and it made 10 million bucks. Shoshanks bombed? Yeah, $8 million. One of the greatest movies in history.

That's the one that throws me off. The other ones I remember hearing about from Word of Mouth and being like, Oh, that movie's good. But Shoshank, I grew up, I was like eight when it came out, and I couldn't believe that wasn't a hit.

Swingers.

Swingers, I knew also because even again, Word of Mouth.

I'm not older than you guys, though, so I'm hit the wall on some of these. No, Swingers. Sharky's Machine, right? You guys remember Sharky, a brok-Reindle sharky.

Apparently, Fight Club bombed at the box office. No.

Wow, that blows my mind. This is from IndieWire. Com.

Yeah. See, I used to be an encyclopedia about this because I I'm so obsessed with money. It wasn't a bomb, but considering it was Pitt and Edward Norton and Fincher, I don't think it hit 100 million. So I think what they thought it was going to be-Underperform. What did it make? It opened at 11 million, tapping at 37 million at the US Box office. Yeah, that's a bummer. Fox spent 65 million on the film. It sounds like a bomb. It happens.

Do you think movies are done? In the theater?

I had thought- You have a movie coming up?

Oh, yeah, by the way, a movie is out now. I think it. It's out this past weekend.

No, I'm quite bullish on... I would have thought that until I saw Maverick. And then something interesting happened with Chips. So you all saw Maverick, Top Gun, too. I saw it three times at IMAX, and I was like, Oh, that's right. We love this. We love having fun. We love action. The stuff that maybe shouldn't work, works so great. She leaves the door open. It's open. You're like, Get in there, Maverick. That movie was reminded us so much of how fun- She was naughty when she did that, too.

That girl, like, Leave this door open.

That That movie was so fun and I think reminded everyone of how fun it is to go to a movie that's fantastic, that weirdly, Chips, a month or two after that, my best friend was one of the producers, and he called me. He's like, You got to go on Netflix. Chips somehow is in the top 10 of movies streaming right now. I'm like, That's so weird. Why is that happening? And then it just slowly climbed for a month all the way up to two. He just kept calling me every day like, You're not going to believe it. We're at three. Now, mind you, this is Five years after the movie came out? That's awesome. And my only explanation is like, you saw Maverick. You're like, That's right. I like to fucking party. I want some action. I want comedy. And then all of a sudden, that's what that movie was. It was sitting right there. So it had a little second life, and I think, driven by Maverick.

Maybe your success on the pod. I imagine people are going back and seeing all the things you're in as they get more invested in your life.

I wonder. I don't know. I don't know if that has an impact.

I don't know if you're listening to this. I don't know if you're listening to this. You wrote that movie, directed that movie. If there's a Dax movie I want to watch that Dax drove, that's the one.

Well, I do think if you do listen to the podcast and you watch that movie, you'd go, Oh, it's all in there. I made another movie called Hit and Run with My Wife, a car chase movie. This isn't going to work out. Are you left-handed or right? I'm right here. Are you left or left? I'm left. Yeah. See, we were if we were eating dinner. Do you want to switch? No, but this is going to be a thing. Okay, whatever. We'll play. Also, what a boat you have. What size is that? Keep talking. Is that a 13? He's really good.

Is that a 13? I'm so buttered up. I know he's going to destroy me.

Yeah, drop the hammer. What was it like when your mom didn't love you? How many inches is your penis? Okay, you win. All right, go. I can't remember what I was saying. Oh, Yes. You did Hit and Run your wife or something? Yes, I did. Both of you said Hit and Run have a lot of emotional chat in them. There's addiction, there's vulnerability. All this shit I think people that listen to the podcast like is in these action comedies. So I think it is fun if you started maybe on the podcast and did find your way to those movies. But I don't know. Because it's a different genre and medium, I don't know if it transfers. You could answer that as good as anyone.

I think IP works still. Chips is IP. Maverick is IP.

But Chips was not the IP we thought it was. That's the big mistake we-Meaning there's still some nostalgia baked in.

There's a curiosity. We thought so. And no.

Well, if I learned a single lesson from that movie, it was while we were recruiting, because before you ever release the movie, you have all these test screenings, and they just hand out flyers at malls. It's like, Come see this movie. Here's the title. You don't know anything about it. And people show up and they watch it. And you have a rate, you know how many flyers you handed out versus how many said yes. And so for Hit and Run, the number was we had a much higher conversion rate. Chips, we have in a very low conversion And then when they would ask people, people were like, it's a movie about potato chips. It was very literal to them. I was like, I'm not going to see a movie about chips.

Your test market had no clue what the-We had found out, like, yeah, 90 plus % of the people had no idea about the TV show Chips.

At that point, we should have just changed the movie title to California Highway Patrol. You would at least know it was a cop movie. Yeah. So, yeah, that IP in our case probably wasn't as strong. Yeah.

But I think that can work now, especially if you're doing the major box office thing. I think people go out for Batman, they'll go out for Superman, maybe they'll go out for Ghostbusters. But the new movie that you don't really know anything about, but it could be an amazing story, I think that those will probably be more successful streaming where the barrier to entry is high.

Exactly. Barrier to entry is the term I was going to use. That's probably why Chips takes off on Netflix. Somebody just text their friend, Hey, Chips is funny. It's right there. I don't got to go. I don't go buy a ticket on Fandango.

Get a babysitter, put on clothes.

Or even if If you're in the motor sports world, which my Instagram is mostly cars and motorcycles is my algorithm. What else? You're in there. Theovon is in there. I've discovered all these people through just that algorithm. I fully discovered you on Instagram seeing clips of yours.

Zuckerberg, bro.

Shut out Instagram.

Now, it's just different recaps on World War II that I never considered.

Is that what your feed This is my Twitter feed.

I didn't see it this way. That's a scary take. Thanks, Tucker Carlson.

That's a scary take. There are lines from those movies Chips, right? I fail everything in Police Academy, but I'm great on a motorcycle. And she says, Well, you can ride a motorcycle. And I said, Yes, ma'am, like a motherfucker. And if you're into motorcycles, that became a thing. So yeah, maybe someone saw that clip, and then they went and checked out the movie. I guess it can in a lot of ways. But I agree, the $60 million drama that you would have normally gone to see, we have it. The TV shows are so fucking good. That's the thing. The competition, I mean, yeah.

Guys, the Life Tour is coming. Too many in Milwaukee, October 11th and 12th. Then we got Denver, Cincinnati, Ram, Ontario, Salt Lake City, Reno, Nevada, San Jose, Portland, Oregon. And then finally, we are closing it out in Honolulu, Hawaii. Theadrisholes. Com for tickets. Don't get roped by The Scalpers. Go get your tickets at theadrisholes. Com. Thank you guys so much, everybody. Who's come out to all the shows on this tour and who has already got tickets to these remaining dates and some cool School announcement coming soon. Yeah, we'll just say that. Peace.

Also, guys, dates. September 27th and 28th. I'm in Greenville, South Carolina. October 10th. I'm doing a one-nighter in Poughkeepsie. And you all need to buy tickets for this one because this will sell out. I'm coming home. And when I say home, I don't mean a place I grew up. I mean India. And when I say India, I mean New Jersey. October 17th through 19th, I'm being the Stress Factory. I promise you, those shows will... If I'm selling out in fucking Timonium, Maryland, Jersey, you think you go waste time? Hurry up and buy the tickets. Go to I've seen. Com for those. Hello, everybody. It's your dear friend Mark Gagnon coming to you from Schultz's chair because I'm going on the road. Oh, yeah, baby. I'm doing a couple of one-nighters coming up in November, November 13th, Stanford, Connecticut.

I'm going to New York Comedy Club, one of the best clubs in the city. They got us out in Stanford.

Come hang out with them. I'm going to kick it with everybody.

We're going to Souljoles and Pottstown, PA, like an hour from Philly. Just come out, come hang. I'll be taking pictures with everyone. We'll be talking after the show. We'll be chopping it up, going through probably conspiracy theories and just current events.

So if you want to come hang, Souljoles, Pottstown, PA. Come see them, sluts. You know what you need to do.

Every time. Love that. Let's get back to the show. And look what it took you to get back into the movie theater, Maverick, where you have. It's got to be The top crews in a jet.

Yeah, the remake, or not the remake, but the... What's it called? The sequel. The sequel to one of the most fun movies ever.

Although, have any of you gone back to watch the original post Maverick? Yeah. Okay, because my 11-year-old, I took her. We saw it twice together. And so I was like, Well, shit, now we got to go back to the original. We were watching the original. I was like, It's very good. It's not as good as I remember. Maverick is much better. Interesting. I know that might be sacrilegious to people, but I think if you go back and you watch it, you're like, Yeah, it's really good.

I like that there was a real bad guy in the first one.

Who was the real bad guy? Russia. Oh. Yeah. You know what I mean?

In this one, there's just this random flag. You're not sure if it's the Middle East. You're not sure if it's.

Saber rattling. Yeah. Yeah.

Let's cook up some Cold War.

Savor. I want people leaving this theater motivated to go to war. Exactly. That's what this country needs. Everyone's too anti-war right now.

He loves patriotism. And you need a boogie man for patriotism. Get me excited.

I'm down with anybody's patriotism. I saw Invictus. That's awesome. Which one's that? This is the one about the South African rugby team, starting Matt Damon.

Oh, right. And it's Mandela. And Mandela, yeah. Where he dies in prison? In a fruit of T-shirt, eating some silver stuff and stuffing.

I'm bawling crying. I'm bawling. Me and my dad are watching this movie, and I'm like, I'm the biggest South African rugby fan. I'm the one that rules in this fucking game. I'm so excited. So anybody's patriotism outside of 1940 German, I'm pretty about. I'm pretty about. That's the only one. It's tough to get behind them. I don't know. What are the other bad ones?

Well, I know Pol Pot, Rise to Fame. What's that? Kammar Rouge, Cambodia. You probably don't. Are these countries? Are these countries? You said it's a dish.

You said it was a dish. Yeah, Cambodia. Why? Did they have a bad history?

Pol Pot, there was an agrarian revolution, a Communist revolution, and they killed anyone who was a professor. The Killing Fields is about that. So they killed all professors? Some made it out for sure, but they were rounding up any intellectuals, any business people. Who were they teaching? Presumably, laissez-faire, Adam Marx capitalism.

Got to go.

Got to get to say it. Got to go. Yeah, it can't. There's no room for Polpot AMM.

Sounds like some Robert Barron bullshit to me.

Killing Fielder. Stalin. You could get behind maybe Stalin. We wouldn't want that one. Oh, yeah. I'm just adding some things to the Nazi German.

What What was Joseph doing? What was he up to?

Famine? They say that he killed the most amount of people of anyone to ever live on planet Earth.

No, that's Leopold.

Hit me with that data.

Congo, 25 million people.

That was the most? Stalin's estimates are between 20 and 60 million.

That he personally killed or died under his watch because I know that 25 million- Famine.

Yeah. Which he caused. He also sent an insane amount of people Out to Siberia. He created the gulag system. He was a bad guy. Yeah, he flies under the radar.

Really? Let's you know Hitler wasn't that bad. You know what I mean? You think about it.

I think it was a takeaway. I think my Twitter is the rebrand for Hitler on Twitter right now.

I got to stay on Twitter.

This isn't bad, but thank you for proposing.

Stalin's also too handsome when he's young.

He had a nice job, right?

This is a prop. Let's see it.

Oh, no, that motherfucker could get it. He created Telegram.

I didn't know he He's never looked that good. It's unreal. Yeah, he's gorgeous.

He got the Calvidian flag. I mean, this guy, there's no way. You created this.

He's like a Timothy Chalamaine of the 1930s. He really is. One of the greatest murders ever to live. Yeah, gorgeous. Well, some of these murders are very attractive, like Ted Bundy.

Ted Bundy was a piece. I didn't see it with Ted Bundy, be honest with you. I see it with Stalin.

I see it with Stalin.

I get it.

He wasn't your type.

Ted Bundy down my lane. Who was good in history? Can we go over that?

I could be Who is good?

Dax.

Oh, we've had a lot of good folks.

Give me top three good.

Just leaders or we're going scientists?

No, they have to be leaders because leaders are going to make the decision. Teddy Roosevelt. Teddy? Yeah. Took the bullet?

Teddy. Sickly boy, got strong on a ranch, came back and reinvented himself, finished the Panama Canal. It was impossible to do.

A few people died in that one, right?

Thousands of people died. Yeah. But America is stalling. It doesn't seem like that. Yeah. That was Panamanians. Everyone took a run at that and everyone quit. And then Teddy's like, We're finishing this thing. I don't care how many Americans had to die of yellow fever.

Was it Americans who died or the Panamanians?

Well, first there was... I happened to have read The Path Between Two Sees, the McCola book about this. Okay. First was the guy who dug the Suez Canal. He was everyone's favorite. He linked the East and Europe.

So he's the best digger in the world.

Yes.

We're going to send him over there. That is tense, dude. Don't use that term again. Digger.

What happened?

He's good at digging. He's good though. Oh, gosh.

What are you What are you doing right now? I'm getting terrified. This is I inoculate myself to your canceling. I wasn't a part of that conversation. I was spraying Nicorait. What did you say? What did you say? Nicorait. I'm down.

Okay, go, go, go.

I was like, Are you giving yourself a breath, or was it? I was like, This guy is about sobriety. That's crazy.

I think the dude was French. Anyways, there was a corporation that was formed in Europe. Tons of investors. They send the guy over. Everyone drops dead of yellow fever and typhoid fever and all this. They can't do it. The Atlantic and the Pacific are at two different heights. They got to go through all this land in South America. It's a disaster. People die. They pull out. It gets resurrected by someone else. And then ultimately, Teddy Roosevelt was like, We're going to finish this thing and it accomplished that. It's the most harrowing project maybe we've done. So him, I would do two more, but I think I'm taking up too much time.

Martin Luther King Jr?

No. Who else? Martin Luther King. We like that a lot, Jr. Yeah, but he's not in power.

I'm talking about you're in positions of power.

Like actual politicians.

What about Lincoln?

You like Lincoln? Of course, Abe Lincoln. You know one that doesn't get a lot of credit, and this comes from having read a book about him, too, is Ulysses S. Grant. I heard this.

I heard his- Grant. Did him in a disservice.

Well, he was an interesting view because he was at the same time an absolute idiot and a genius. So he had fallen for every get-rich-quick scheme. He was a terrible businessman. He had been great in maybe the Mexican-American War or something, and then just had come home and lost a bunch of money, and he was a loser. And then he gets called back up to do this, and he has a great genius for military operations. But I think that the thing we We think of Abraham Lincoln, of course, as we should. But really, reformation was the period that was so untenable, so few people could have kept the country together post-civil war. And he just did an impossible job of doing that. And yeah, he probably He didn't get enough credit. But then he left the White House, and he again became insolvent and owed people money, and he was supported by benefactors.

Was there no system for presidents? Like a public speaking circuit? No. You know how for NFL players, they give you a little something when you're retired.

Oh, the opposite. A pension. A pension.

Is there no pension for presidents back then?

I don't know if there was back then because the Civil War was the first time. The north started printing money. We had a first central bank. All this is new. So I doubt there was a pension. I don't even know that they paid presidents. I'm not sure. They didn't have security, which is insane.

What do you mean?

They didn't have- The Secret Service Service didn't come about until late in the game. We had a ton of presidents were shot before we were like, We should get some bros with gums around this president.

Interesting.

Yeah, 1958 federal law that provides lifetime benefits to foreign presidents. Way past Grant. Yeah, 58. But he was like... People did love him, though. So he was taken care of by a bunch of people. But he was embarrassed and humiliated regularly.

Yeah, the most powerful man in the and now you're...

Yeah. God. But if you want a guy to stand up on a boat while you're shooting at people and they're shooting at you and he's not going to sit down, he's going to keep yelling orders, Grant's your guy. Really? Oh, yeah.

What are the stories about Grant?

Every time he miraculously avoided getting shot when everyone else on the boat was shot around him, he just was always at the front lines. He was nuts and fearless.

Wait a minute. At that time, if you were the head military commander, it was your responsibility to be at the front of the boat? No, no.

Most Both of them weren't. But his unique gift was like, he was a guy who led by example, and he convinced the guys around him. He did not have the best strategy, but he had the relentless, I'll go first, follow me. It was an infectious leader. He was the real dude. Okay.

And then what about Sherman?

I wish I knew more about Sherman. When he invaded Africa with tanks. Well, I know just total war.

To come to Sherman. This is during the Civil War as well, where he was just like, I'm not for this collation.

Oh, I'm thinking of the Sherman tank.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Is that named after him?

I don't know. No idea. Anyway. I've exceeded my historical knowledge. Your knowledge? Oh, the Civil War. Are you a history guy? Accidentally, this all works backwards from I'm an insomniac, and over the many years of trying to figure out how to fall asleep, what I have figured out as a book on tape for me is ideal, but the book has to be boring enough. I tried Keith Richard's autobiography. And you were off for days. Oh, my God. I was like, Oh, I I will stay up the next six days until this is done. So for me, these dense historical books are perfect because I'm pretty interested in it, but then they lose me. The fucking Path Between Two Sees, you guys, it's a thousand pages of construction and pylons and the Brooklyn Bridge book, same thing, McCala. There's chapters and chapters about them being underwater.

Is that how you got into that Carlin history podcast? I forget what it's called. Oh, my God.

Yes. Hardcore history. Hardcore history. Hardcore history.

I heard him talk about that.

That motherfucker goes deep. He'll do 9, 10 hours, anything.

But your retention is pretty impressive.

Well, thank you. I credit dyslexia for that.

How so?

Because when I was a kid, I didn't learn to read to fifth grade. I was in the learning disabled room with the other guy, with the other gang. I'm going to be delicate about this. No, don't be. Well, I was one of a few people not wearing helmet. And it was very confusing to me because I was like, on the playground, I seem smart. I'm chatting with dudes and I'm holding my own. But I get in this classroom, they're writing on the chalkboard, and I'm like, I don't know what's going on. And I had five years of that. So the only thing I picked up was what I heard the teacher say. If I was going to remember anything, it was going to have to come orally. And so I think I do have a pretty high retention for things I hear.

I've noticed this quality in great interviewers and successful podcasters. Rogan also has incredible retention. He does. Read something once or hear something once, and it's locked in forever. I imagine if you're talking to hundreds of people and you need to call on random pieces of information from your life or things you've read or read. The more that you can actually call on, the more advantageous it's going to be in those situations.

Did you have any learning disability growing up?

Probably.

You didn't do so hot in school? Or how did you do? Oh, my God. I learned this about you today that you went to UCSB. That seems totally out of the realm of what I would have guessed. Yeah, what did you guess? Well, I would have thought in East... You're very New York to me.

Yeah, I grew up here, born and raised here.

Parents owned a dance studio. Dance studio. Mom was a ballroom dancer.

Three-time US ballroom dancer.

Was she hot? Yeah. Did your buddies?

She was like a Scottish 11.

Okay, so we don't need to say it, but I know what it means. Yeah. You don't need to offend anyone, but I feel you. I'm from Michigan, so I got to do a lot of transference, too. When you went to- When I'm trying to explain dudes at home what I'm looking at in California, I got to exceed the 10. I got to go above 10. The roads are paved with gold. Yes. It's hard to explain. What are we talking about? Oh, your mom. She was hot, though. Did your buddies?Beautiful.

Did my boys want to smash? No, she was older. My mom was like, when I was born, maybe like 35.

No, some of them still do, actually.

Okay, because I imagine she's in crazy shapes. You still want to?

Absolutely. No, he was trying to get after it, 100%. He's a milkman, and my mom had the milk.

Does that mean she was endowed?

What do you mean?

Well, every mammal has milk, but I'm wondering, did she have big breasts? Oh, yeah. Okay. Ducks. My mom does still. Still. And did you hate... I hated going out with my... The smell of them. The smell of them. I'm proud to say I don't know what they smell like. But I did hate when I was around 9, 10, and I'd go out with my mom, and she'd wear a tank top, and random dudes, I'd see some other side of random dudes. They're super helpful, and now they're chatting with my mom. And I remember hating that like, Oh, God, look at this fucking bozo. Now he's going to come over and say something. Did you have that going on with your mom?

I had a lot of women flirt with my dad, I think.

Oh, really? Is he stud?

He's just really charismatic and nice and- Very charming guy. Charming, but like- He's a what?

Charming.

Charming guy.

Okay, very charming.

Charming guy.

Tall gentleman? Yeah.

Maybe 6'0, 6'1. But you're the most interesting person that he's ever spoken to. Yeah. Immediately. That's powerful. Whatever you're doing, he's authentically curious about it, and you are the most interesting.

But you no doubt, didn't mind that women were talking to your dad. That's fine. If you're a young boy- They couldn't help it. I don't think they're going to do their power What's his name? Larry. Larry. Great name for him.

Were your parents separated at the point you started noticing this? And if so, do you think that's why?

Well, yeah, I was on my probably second stepdad by this point.

Your mom must have been hot.

She She's attractive.

To get to three.

She didn't stop there. I know. There's a four. There's a four. Then there's a dude currently trying to marry her, which is good for her because she's 72. What do you think they still got it?

Yeah, how did...

What's her appeal?

No. What do you think she's so good? How does she so get a-?

She's a very cool woman. She's a fucking gangster. She left my dad, was a single mom, had all these terrible husbands, built a business that was successful, built her own house. She's attractive and she's smart, and she's a phenom, especially... She was three months pregnant at her senior prom with my brother at 18. In the '70s. And so the expectations for her versus what she went and did. She's a very impressive human being. So I get why guys have fallen in love with her. But I also think she suffered from something I see endlessly with the very famous women I interview, which is fucking good luck. I feel terrible for them. There's dudes are attracted to this shiny, incredible thing. And then the second they're with that incredible, shiny thing, they're threatened by it and they want to destroy it. And so whereas a dude gets famous and rich and his options just go like this, for women, it just goes like this. I hope you find a dude that's confident enough to let you be shiny and be the breadwinner and not be an asshole and try to destroy you. I think my mother on her own levels suffered from that.

I think guys were like, Oh, my God, this woman's a fucking baller.

I think men's self-worth is so much in career success. I think if a woman was with a guy that was considered more beautiful than her, it would really fuck with her because her self-worth is often put in looks. You know what I I think it just operates like that. If my wife was making tons more money than me, I would feel a little threatened because I buy into that traditional model of what a man is-I had that for sure.

So my wife, for many years, made a lot more money than me. I think I'm pretty... That's why you're really overcompetitive now. I grew up with a very powerful woman.

Now, but now what's it like? Everything's fine.

Now what's it like in a house? Everything's fine now.

The big breadwinner over here.

I'll tell you what happened, though. I do think of myself. I was raised single woman. Do you forward her the articles? I will tell you the real on this. I'll tell you the real on this. He's like, No, she sees it. I'm totally fine with her being powerful. I had no envy of her. She's much more famous than me. All that stuff doesn't bother me one bit. But yeah, knowing she made more money than me, still, I would be like, I'm supposed to be making... I'm very stuck in that. Oh, my God, I'm supposed to be making more money. This is embarrassing. It's so embarrassing.

You feel embarrassed by it.

Of course. I just couldn't shake the water I grew up in.

What other people will think of you or what she will think of you?

Not her. Yeah, what other people will think, what I think I'm supposed to be. That was still one I couldn't shake. What happened though is we had kids, and at some point, luckily, I was like, Oh, right. This is for all of us. Fuck, yeah. Go make as much as you can because this is for these little girls now. It's not even about me. And I got over it before I started making a bunch of money.

All right, guys, let's take a break for a second. We got some big ass games coming up this week. Obviously, we have Vikings versus the Texans, Eagles versus the Saints. But most importantly, we have the Cowboys and the Giants. Now, I know Akash likes to pretend like he no longer cares about the Cowboys because they've broken his heart. For so many years, even though he got a bunch of fucking championships early in in his life, how many does he need to get? He's spoiled, if you really ask me. The point is, Akash, right now, still cares about those cowboys. He doesn't want to admit it, but he still deeply cares. And when the Giants jam it down their throats, it is going to make him suffer, which I'm sure Alex, myself, and any other native New Yorker that supports the Giants is going to be very, very, very excited about.

Hey, Andrew doesn't know I also recorded ads. Hey, Andrew, I don't give a fuck if the Cowboys lose. I didn't even what time they played last week, to be honest with you. They could suck my whole dick. I still don't have a sports team. I'm going to be honest, I'll probably root for the Cowboys if I happen to catch a game, but I ain't really looking for them.

Anyway. Regardless of who you're rooting for, I hope it's the Giants, you can bet on these games and any other upcoming NFL game on Stake. Now, this segment is brought to you by Stake, the leader in global betting and US social casinos. Bet on top sports and political events, and use the promo code flagrant for your welcome bonus. Now, back to the show.

Do you you had stronger views of what a man is supposed to be because you, again, you didn't have your dad in your life, and that's like, Oh, this is what a man should be?

Oh, I'm the most cliché. Here was the playbook to be a man where I grew up is jump shit, drink too much, do too many drugs, try to fuck a lot, fight. And I was like, Yes, I'll do all of them. Somebody tell me I'm a man. So yes, I think I was really susceptible to whatever the dudes around me were doing, I was going to show them I'm doing this shit. I can do all this. What's the next thing we do to prove we're a man? So yeah, I think it- Because you didn't feel masculine or because- Because I didn't have a dad at home going like, Tiger, you were great today. You're in route to me. I'm proud of you. I know it's modeling- You had validation of another man.

It's a lack of modeling.

Yeah, I got a couple of stepdads in the mix where it's like, I certainly wasn't going to try to be what they were all about. I had an older brother He was five years older than me. He was helpful. I did virtually anything he did. He saved my life in sixth grade. He's like, Listen, you're getting enough fucking... You're shaving your sides. You're going to get banged. You're wearing skater clothes. Go. Gave me a full makeover, and it worked. Then I got to junior high and I was like, Okay, I got this. This is working now. So I had him. But yeah, I was just really quick to do anything that I thought was what you were supposed to do to be a man. That was the dumbest one you did? Oh, my God. Look at my hands. I'm missing knuckles. I got fucking metal in my... You were fighting. I'm an addict. Yeah, fighting, a full-blown addict, crashing, motor cycles. What's your best win in a fight?

Was there a David and Goliath one?

There is a best. This is the worst one, guys tell fight stories, but I'm going to do it. My wife's like, This is so unattractive. I'm like, I know. But I'll just say the one that I like the most, which is I, after high school, lived in downtown Detroit with three dudes, and then I had moved to California. And in my absence, I kept hearing about this dude, Reggie, who was hanging around the apartment building a lot. And they were hanging out with Reggie, and everything was cool. And they had watched Reggie knock a few dudes out along the way. So the legend was brewing about Reggie. Well, then Reggie stole Efe's bike from upstairs. That was strike number one. Then Reggie stole my friend Aaron's wallet out of the apartment. He started stealing a lot of shit. So I came home for Christmas, and so all my friends are gathered at this old apartment, and fucking Reggie walks through the door. And I'm like, I got to tell this dude he can't be here anymore, and none of the other guys are going to tell him. And it's funny because it was a roundtable just like this.

I'm sitting on the couch, he walks through the door. I step over this roundtable, and I walk out, and I go, Reggie, you can't be in here. He goes, I can't be in here. And I go, No, man, you got to go. And as I'm saying, No, you got to go. He fucking caught me. I've never been hit by someone faster. I was chatting, and then I had gone over this exact coffee table, landed with one arm down, and I looked over and my then-girlfriend staring at me. She just watched this guy knock me over a table. And in my mind, I'm like, I want to go to bed right now. I don't want to deal with any of this. And I'm like, everyone's watching. We're going. And I got up and over the fucking table. And then I got him in a headlock, and it was hockey punches for 45 seconds. And then everyone had to pull me off, and I just smoked Reggie. And it was a real moment for me when my girlfriend was staring at me like, How are you going to play this? And my best friend's over here. And I think that I only like that one because I did not want to go back at Reggie.

Did Reggie ever want some revenge?

No, he got-That's it. What is even crazier, the element of the story that's even crazier, as that all happens, he gets thrown out. Now, my best friend since I was 11, still my best friend. We are fucking... He's the love of my life. We are as close as two people can be. Two daughters and a wife. He was first, though. He lost his shit after that. Mind you, we're all hammered. And he was like, I can't fucking believe I let Reggie do that. And he came unglued. And then Reggie was hanging out downstairs like an hour later. And then Aaron went downstairs. And then there was a round two with Reggie and Aaron that I had to break up, and it got a little scary. Oh, really? Yeah, because he was fighting from a broken heart at that point.

He gave him the curry.

He had somehow let me down. It was a dangerous place to be on the other side of Aaron and that sitch. So that's one. That's the main thing. Did you keep your fight in record?

He still has that thing. I heard at the end of a pod, you'll do the little recap. He got into some guy on a plane. He was being a dickhead, I think. And then what did you say to him, he said, Tell the story because I thought it was awesome that you're like Hollywood elite. So for you to say this to a guy on a plane, pre-TRT, as far as I know, was pretty crazy.

If you're talking about the thing that just happened, it wasn't- This is a couple of years ago.

You called the guy a fucking pussy, is basically- Oh, on an airplane? Yeah, you said you're not going to- On an airplane? He said something like, You're not going to do anything about it because you're a fucking pussy. And then I think, Monica, your co-host, had to break it up.

Monica has been in this situation a few times. My wife has been in this situation a few times. It's definitely a side of myself. I really have tried to, and have, for the most part, gotten in back in the cage, the closet. My trigger is bullies. Can't stand bullies. If I'm witnessing someone bullying someone else, I just got to get in the mix. I don't know if I'm remembering that one, but this just happened. This was more potentially queer suicide, which is Amazon who owns WNDYR, whom I do New Deal is with. They had asked me, well, Amazon asked me, would you come down to South by and do the panel for Roadhouse? And so I was like, yes, if I can interview Connor, which he's hard to get to. Huge. Yeah. So I brokered this whole thing. We do the panel. That's its own very interesting experience because Connor is pretty hammered on stage. And I'm in that position of like, I want to make jokes for the audience, and I don't want to get being killed real-time by Conor McGregor. So I go with the high wire act of doing comedy, and there's an assassin next to you.

I'm like, Jeanine, I'm going to ask you this question. Conor is going to answer, though, as we know. And I'm like, Oh, is that too much? Checking in. Emotional management. I had done that panel, and then we're flying out. Monica and I are in first class, and the guy in front of us, it starts with his bags in front of his feet. Everyone fucking knows you can't have your bag in front of your feet in the front row. There's no seat to tuck. And I'm like, this guy's acting like... And the flight attendant is like, sir, can you put your bag up? And he's like, I thought I might be able to get that past you. And she's like, okay, could you put your bag up? He's like, okay, you're going to make me put my bag up. And I'm What is one row behind. I'm like, oh, my God, I hate this guy. So he finally puts his bag up. Then she's, would you like lunch? What are the options? Makes her read him the options. And he goes, okay, a thigh. So the chicken is a thigh. Is that dark meat? And I'm like, How long have you been eating chicken that you don't fucking know that a thigh is dark meat?

Everyone knows. He's making her now say what dark meat. So now I'm just like, I can't stand this guy.

None of this sounds that crazy. Am I wrong?

The back thing is a problem. Yeah. You got to hear how he was talking to her. Asking the food options is pretty normal. Sure. But then he goes, Okay, we have a chicken thigh. Oh, you have a chicken thigh. Is that white meat or dark meat? It's a little Give your fucking... Or do you want chicken or pasta? Let her do the rest of it. And then I get up to go to the bathroom and he is just at his seat, and I stand up. Clearly, I need to go past him to get to the bathroom. And now he's just not getting over. So now at some point, I'm like, Yeah, I'm just going to walk right through him. So I just walk right through him and I bump him with my shoulder. He now knows that I don't like him. I think that's clear. I come back from the bathroom, and now when I sit down, he is turned and he's staring at me through the little divide. Just slip between the chairs. He's looking at me smiling, and I just stare at him, just staring, staring, staring. And he goes, You were great in that panel last night.

I went, Oh, fuck. This guy's high up at Amazon. Why would he have been at this screening? Oh, my God, I'm fucked. And then Monica's immediately like, Oh, my God, this guy's probably high up at Amazon. And so now I'm a little panicked because I've been a real dick to him. And then he turns around and he opens his computer. And by luck, when he opened his computer, I could see his name. On the lock screen, it said his full name. I quickly wrote it on my phone. And then I looked it up. Thank God, he was just a lawyer. He was a lawyer of one of the actors in the movie. And of course, he was a lawyer. So I don't think that's the story, but that was the most recent one where Monica's like, You don't have to police everyone acting like an asshole in public. When was the last fight you got into? Like, real big fight was probably 15 years ago. A guy threw a huge drink at the windshield of my car while Kristin and I were driving somewhere, and we were really dressed up. And then that was unacceptable.

He's famous at this point. He's 2009.

The guy was screaming, I'm going to sue you, as I went back to the car. It was very clear what had happened. I got- The wiper is going to take care of me. I thought the windshield... I actually thought the windshield had shattered. It was just all the ice. But It was one of those situations. The guy's crossing the street in front of Chateau Marmot. And if you've been to LA, there's no crosswalk there. It's like a twist in sunset. And we're coming down the road, and my lane is dead empty. And the guy starts walking across. Everything's fine. He's going to have plenty of time. But then he senses I'm not slowing down, which I don't need to. He's got plenty of time. So then he steps back out into the road and is like this. I should be stopping. He's not in a crosswalk, whatever. So I don't slow down. I just go around. As I go around, he chucked this huge drink at the windshield, and I thought the windshield shattered. So then it was just emergency break was up and I was exiting the vehicle before it stopped. And then it was in front of a news stand.

There was a ton of people watching. They missed the whole drinks. They just look up and I'm beating this guy up on the sidewalk out of nowhere. Then he's screaming, I'm going to see you as I go back to the car. Basically, all this behavior mostly ended because Kristen said the most thing to me, which is like-Let it go? No. That would have never worked. Let it go. That's not her song. She's on it. It's a good reference. You nailed it. That's a 10. No, she said... She goes, You think that people that you love feel safe because you'll protect them? That's what you think is is happening, right? And I said, Yeah. You see your mom get beat up, you see these things. And like, Yeah, my job is whoever I love, I'm going to protect. And she said, I feel much more scared around you than I feel safe. I feel like any Anything can happen, and I don't like that. And I was like, Oh, that's bad. That's not what I wanted to hear. That's not what I thought. It's the opposite of what I thought I was providing. And I really had to go like, Oh, this whole thing, this story you have that people love this about you, that you'll stick up for them, just makes them feel scared all the time.

I was like, I got to end this. So there's been some mild dust-ups, but also the police were involved in that one, and I really did think I was going to get sued for a bunch of money. And then, luckily, what he had done was a felony, and what I had done was a misdemeanor, luckily.

So he just wiped out.

Yeah, don't throw shit at moving cars in California. That's a no-go.

If someone does, though, something in your car that you can beat the shit out of them.

That's true. And that'll be a misdemeanor. Don't throw shit at cars, but definitely respond with violence. Exactly.

Are you guys the only ones are your friends that are still married?

No, we have a bunch of friends that are still married.

Or your, in front of the camera, friends, put it that way.

I want to know your fantasy, just be honest with me, of what that is for me. Do you think we're hanging out with a ton of celebrities? I'm doing Brad Gelina and Whoever Willing to Fow's Dragon. I mean, God killed hanging out with whoever willing to Fow's Dragon.

When we met, you were with McCona Hay.

That was a rare and exciting one-off.

For both of us.

For all of us, I would hope. Were you as excited to meet him as I was? He's just great. Oh, my God. So I had him on the show twice. I had also met him one time at a camping event. But briefly, I don't really know him, but I was in Austin. I was there for work, and then I had a few days off. And then you and I are DMing, and I decide, well, I'm going to see where he's playing because you just on LA, and I had missed it, and I felt bad. And then, lo and behold, you're performing in you while I'm in Austin. So then I hit you up and I'm like, oh, my God, I'm going to be in Austin. I want to come see your show. You're like, great. How many tickets? I'm like, bro, I think it's just me. I was so embarrassed to go like, I think I'm going to be solo at your show. But then I don't know why. I was like, I'm going to fucking ask Matthew McConaher. He lives in Austin. We got along great on the podcast. So I cold called McConaher through emails, through his publicist and our booker of the show.

And then we start emailing and I invite him to your show. He doesn't know what I'm inviting him to. And he sends me an email, and it's got the Green light logo. He gave me a green light. Let's do this. Let's go to the show. So it's basically a blind- That's so awesome. What a guy. It was basically a blind date with McConahe, but this really funny thing happened really quickly. I had invited him, which is like the alpha move. I asked him out. But then he was like, Where are you staying? I'm going to come pick you up. What time? I'm going, I'll be at seven o'clock. You're at the Four Seasons? I'll be there at seven o'clock, pick you up. I'll be in a while like a navigator, look for me. I'm like, Okay, wow.

Really good impression.

Hold on, I'll get better as I get into it. I'm like, oh, wow, now he's picking me up.

He's alphaing you now.

And then he goes, so what are these tickets? What do you got set up? Because we can do a suite if you want. And I'm like, look, whatever thing you want to do, if that sounds better than probably what I'm going to get, let's do that, right? So he's like, I go, I'll pick you up. So now he's got his own tickets for us. It started with me having tickets. And so it's such a dream come true. I come down into the lobby of the Four Seasons and I walk out and sure enough, there's a white Lincoln Navigator. He's outside. He's leaning against the car. He's talking about who's coming through here. Okay, we got a sorority week coming up. We got the mom's hair. He's holding cord. Fucking total McCone style. Totally living up to my dream of what he is. He's just so happy, so fucking comfortable in his own skin. We get in the car. Again, we don't know each other all that well. We're on the way there, and he goes, I'm excited to go here. I designed this arena we're going to. I built this place. I put together some private equity money, and we got the state of Texas involved, and we built this thing, and it's gorgeous.

I haven't been. I'm like, I haven't been. Hold on. I'm like, I asked you out, but now you pick me up. Now we're going to say, also, you designed the arena we're going to. And you kept that. What's so cool is he kept that quiet all the way we were on the way there. When I first said, if it was me, I'm like, I need to say you and my guys, I'd be like, Yeah, let's go. I I designed that place. Let's go to my arena.

Yeah.

Welcome to my arena. Oh, yeah. At that, my arena, I knew that because I designed the place. You would have heard about that long before you even met me. So this is coming out on the car ride. I'm like, my God, this guy fucking built this arena. We get there. The whole staff is so excited that we're there. He has built this place he's never been. And we go up to this suite and he goes, Oh, this is great. What's the number one problem when you're watching a game? You're watching some event. Bar is about hair. Action is about hair. So what do you want? Look at this. There's a fucking bar in the seat. That was McCona Hayes' invention. I'm like, This guy is so fucking cool.

He's one of the few people that guys and girls equally have a crush on for different reasons. Yes.

Oh, he's so like, I want to just feel like he feels for a day. I want to walk around.

I had no clue you guys weren't besties.

Oh, no. So you're going to like the end of this story that you don't know about, which is car ride there is It's good. It's a good first date car ride. But then, and this was tactically a blunder, which is now we're just watching stand-up. We can't really talk. So now we're just sitting next to each other. We don't really know each other. We ended up having a great time. You were great. And then you were fucking... What was a relief to me is he loved you. Yeah, he loved you. You got into a certain thing about talking to your wife, and we were about like,. That's exactly what it's like. And so we had a really fun moment. And then what was cool about him was, I know I need to go say hi to you. It would be rude if I don't go say hi to you. Sure. But also, I don't know his baseline, how much he wants to be mobbed. And so I'm like, I'm going to have to tell him at some point. We got to stick around. I got to go say hi to Andrew. But he goes, you probably want to say hi to your buddy.

Should we go backstage? And I'm like, oh, my God, this guy's a mensh. He offered. So I'm like, yes. So then we go down, we hang out with all you guys. That's great. You just start interviewing him. Immediately. Immediately. What are your political aspirations? I'm like, Oh, my God. I would have never... Oh, my God. That is exactly what happened. Yeah, right? That is exactly- All of a sudden, he's like, got him talking about his political aspirations. I'm like, I would have never asked that on a first date, but now I'm learning this because Schultz- I'm so bad at small talk.

I'm so painful about it.

No, I was actually thinking, honest to God- So I have to ask That's the questions I'm really curious about because then it comes across more authentic and pure to me. And you are super curious if he'll run for office.

He mentioned it. He was talking about it.

We would actually, I think, as a population, love that as a population.

I think Austin folks are in a heartbeat.

Oh, my God. Yes, and that'll pay off here in a second.

And we thought that you have all these features at the beginning. Anyway.

So we're doing that. You're pretty much on a date with him now. Now you have talked to him way more than I've talked to him. Okay. Right? Yeah. And then a bunch of people come in. It's just a handful.

We have We held the room for you two because I was like, I don't want them to be... I'm thinking, I'm protecting you guys. I'm like, Okay, let's just hang for a little bit. I don't want people to come in and then- You don't want him to have to take 55 photographs. I don't want him to have to take 55 photographs.

Whether that was an issue or not, who knows. But once a bunch of people got in there, I thought, well, he was so cool. He hung for a while. He answered all your questions.

I was grin of him. Not power.

He was in the hop seat. 1987.

Is this legend or is this real?

You were like, Larry King all of a sudden. I love it. So we're leaving there, and I'm like, that was a lot of fun. Also, we didn't really connect. There was no magic moment. We didn't get into a good groove of a conversation. So I'm like, it's a little bittersweet. We're leaving, we're walking in the car, and all of a sudden, he goes, you want to go to Stake? And I go, fuck, yes. Let's eat all the steaks. Let's get so many steaks. Also, there's nothing I'd like to do more than eat a fucking steak.

If I'm going to need a steak, and I'm here.

Yeah, he can say, Are you hungry? Or it was like, We could eat if you're up for a steak. So I was like, you want to go steak? And I'm like, yes, let's fucking get a steak. So we get in the car, it's like, Domingo, where should we go get a steak? What's the best place right now? I forget the name of the place. It is phenomenal. And Domingo is like, well, you got to go here. They close at 10:30. Whatever it was, we had five minutes. He goes, oh, let's see if they... He starts calling. And I go, I think we'll probably be fine. If you show up here, sure enough, we walk in. The host almost goes in an anaphylactic shock. Being with McConae and Austin is like being with Mickey Mouse in Disneyland. He is there, Mickey Mouse. So they're all so excited he's there. It's fun to watch. And he's like, can we still And she's like, Oh, yeah, anywhere you want to sit? He's like, I'll go, Let's just sit back there. We're walking. He goes, See, Dennis, may you like ribeye? I go, Yeah, I love ribeye. It's my favorite.

He goes, Good. You like skirt steak? I go, Yeah, I like skirt steak. He goes, Good. You like... What was the vegetable? He goes, You like salad? I'm like, Yeah, I love salad. He goes, Great. So he's just ordered for us. He goes, Okay, here's what we're going to have. And he threw down the whole order. And I was like, Yeah, I'm really on a date with him. He just ordered for me. I got to say I liked it or not, but I was not allowed to see a menu. This is great. Then we sat down, the food was incredible, and we had a full two-hour fell in love. Really? Awesome. Yeah, it was so much fun. And yeah, it was a perfect night. If you get a chance, go on a date with Matthew McConaugh in Austin.

All right, guys, here's the deal. We are going to do a Sober October challenge. That will be very easy for me, but here's the hard part. We are going to compete to see who gets the best sleep for the month of October. What's insane, I've never been drunk in my life and I sleep like dog shit. But I'm going to try to improve my sleep hygiene, stay off my phone, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm going to try to win this competition. Right now, before sober October, that's a perfect time to give Whoop a try. Obviously, the whole Flagrant team is going to do it. They're all going to either give up booze or booze and, well, still probably beat me. But anyway, you should see what improvements you can make in your health for yourself. So join the challenge. Sign up for a one month free trial, guys. You have nothing to lose one month for free at join. Whoop. Com/flagrant. Now, let's get back to the show.

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Can you get a second date?

What then paralleled this perfectly was that I also had Woody Harrelson on the show, and I got along really well, too. I had both their emails So I sent the two of them an email saying, You guys are fucked. I'm joining this. Yeah. I am joining this. Woody's awesome. Whether you like it or not. And they were both very receptive to it. So hopefully, they'll be.

I'm related. I think Woody's maybe the most underrated actor in Hollywood in entire lifetime.

He is so fucking good. Comedy and drama. It's so different.

It's hard to do both at that level.

He's the original Walton Gaugans. Do you guys like Walton Gaugans? He's my new obsession.

Who's Walton Gaugans?

Righteous Gemstones. He's Uncle Baby Billy. And then Fall Out, he's the noseless cowboy.

Oh, he's phenomenal in Fall Out.

He's phenomenal. He's also even, and I say this as someone who worships Danny McBride, he's even funnier than Danny McBride on Righteous Gemstones. He was also in Vice Principles with Danny.

I always hear about this show.

He's at the same time the best dramatic and best comedian alive right now. That fallout show is phenomenal. And look at him. Yeah, he's so fucking interesting looking. The mask. The mask. Remember? I do. I do. Maybe he'll tackle that. Also, I follow him on Instagram. He's always like, he's got... I can't pull off a flowy button up. I don't know if you guys can where you do button up. No, Tim. And you got a button. I'm sure you can pull it. I cannot do it. I don't know what's happening with my body type.

But you're too big for that. It's like you're bragging.

It looks stupid if I'm in that. Because you're jacked.

Okay. Thank you. You need to get so many muscles. Your body is so sculpted and beautiful.

Oh, my God. Tell me more about it. I'm just saying. What's your favorite part of my body?

It could contain more subtle. Yeah, but the buys are pretty good, too.

Well, listen, I was- It's too direct when you flirt. Oh, sorry.

Okay, I'm going to get better at that. What are your political aspirations?

I didn't act.

Did I open with that? Yes.

It was pretty quick. I wouldn't do that. It was a couple of softballs. Then to announce your candidacy here. You broke the ice for their date.

Oh, yeah. Maybe I did do that.

It was great because, again, I had all this anxiety about how he's going to do in this situation. Again, I don't know what his comfort level is. Does he want to be around a lot of people? Does he not want to be? I don't know. I don't even know the guy. I'm on a blind date with him.

When you're on a blind date with a guy, how quickly will you share your sense of humor? Are you assessing them or are you just going- This is very name dropery, and I'm owning that, but it's really perfectly related.

To your question, which is, I interview all these people, and I get along with a ton of them really well. You guys must deal with this. You're like, who of these people am I going to maybe try to have a friendship with? I also have two kids, and I'm busy. Who's got time for this or that? But you're constantly meeting people. You're like, yeah, I would love to be friends with this person. So recently Jack Black was on. He and I got along so fucking well. We're neighbors and we're DMing. And then I'm like, I'm going to ask him if he wants to get a hamburger, maybe, right? So I ask him, you want to get a hamburger? He's like, yeah, let's get a hamburger. So we decided where we're going to go. And we had scheduled it like two- It does sound less cool than steak.

Yeah, you should have said big time. Steak and salad is good.

But he was saying hamburguesy a lot, which is very Jack Black. Got it. He's like, let's get a classic hamburguesy at Yucca's. It's a Mexican restaurant. But it was like two weeks out we made this plan. So I put it in my calendar. And then we're supposed to have lunch at noon, day of, at probably 9:00 AM, I send him a DM on Instagram that just goes like, Hey, confirming we're meeting at noon at Yucca's. So noon comes along and I look and I have no response from him for three hours. And I'm like, I'm going up to Yucca's. He's not going to be there. I'm going to get stood up. So I'm at Yucca's 10 minutes early. I feel awkward. I go into a liquor store and walk in circles for a while. Then I come back out. Then I'm like, okay, I can sit in front of you because I feel like I'm on a date with a woman, to be honest with you. I'm like, I got to look cool when he walks us. He's a second away from grabbing a bottle of Moons Farm.

Why don't you start drinking again?

Jack Bob was late for a hamburger. I had no choice. What? Is that going to remain sober? So anyways, I go back Now I'm sitting in front of Yungas by myself, and I'm feeling really stupid. And I'm also thinking, okay, well, not only is he not coming, he will eventually read that DM in three days, feel really guilty and apologize. What's going to be my move then? I'm already planning that out, right? And I decide in that moment, I'm going to say, I cried for an hour and a half. And then I even go to, my wife's going to ask, how was your lunch with Jack Black? And I'm going to have to admit I got stood up. So I'm already planning who I have to tell I got stood up to. And all of a sudden, I feel someone grab my thing, and it's Jack Black, and he's in his military hat. He's like, Let's go. We're going over here. And all of a sudden, we leave Yucca's, and he takes me to another restaurant, and we sit down there, and I go, I thought you weren't going to show up. He goes, I knew you weren't going to show up.

I told my wife when I was leaving, he's not going to show up. And when he sends me an apology text, I'm going to tell him, Too bad. That was your one chance. And I go, Oh, I went even further. I was making up excuses to people people that knew I was having lunch with you. And so our first 10 minutes was owning the fact that we were both certain we were going to get stood up and that we had crafted text messages to each other and other people we told. I was like, This is awesome. You're Jack Black and you're insecure, and I should not be insecure. And we're both terribly insecure. We were going to get stood up on this date, and now it's heaven.

That DM that morning, as you're telling me this story, I'm going through my emotions. I'm And the day of, you're like, he's not going to show. I know exactly what you're thinking.

He's Jack Black. He's got things to do. He's going to forget. He's so artistic. He's probably terrible with his schedule.

He built up all the justifications for why he can't.

He wears tie-dye. Those people are good That's what I'm saying. He's. Of course, he's not going to meet with me. Why didn't he think you were going to show since you sent them in? That's what's adorable is even Jack Black thinks he's going to get stood up. We all think we're... Except for probably McCona. Mccona knew I was going to be there on time. He knew he was on stage.

I think that's part of what's so alluring about him is one thing that makes me feel better about being insecure.

There's been some very powerful people here, and I'll see things where I'm like, Oh, they were being insecure. And you realize everybody feels that. And then you see a guy like Mekane who just seems comfortable in his own skin, and that's such a superpower that you're like, Wow, that guy's fucking awesome. I want to be like, That guy.

Yes, it's very enviable. His comfort level in his own skin.

I It's unbelievable.

It seems like, and this is not a judgment, he can enjoy it. He has figured out how to enjoy that attention. And what it really boils down to, too, is if you feel worthy of it or not. That's the crux of it all. Because I had this experience where I started therapy two and a half years ago for real. I had done couples therapy, but I had not really had a real... I'm going to do this once a week and I'm going to do this for a while. And that therapist said to me, because the deal with Spotify was very large, and I wasn't really ready for that, which sounds weird to say, but I just was like, you shouldn't get this. Someone's going to take this away. You don't deserve this. All these things. Imposter syndrome? Yeah, big time. I have that. And he said, look in life, sometimes you will make a huge choice, and that will enact change and growth. Or one can land on your lap, and you can either grow into it or you will lose it. And he's like, so you have to grow into this, and you have to accept that this is real and that you deserve it, or you will lose it.

And I was like, Oh, that's so weird to think about. But over the course of working with him for a year, I would have had a whole explanation for you as to why I don't want to take a picture with somebody at a restaurant. And I have good points I could make about that. And I would say, Well, they don't even really want to meet me. They just want a picture for their thing so they can get attention. And I'm not terribly sympathetic to that. I had all these... They're logical. That wasn't really what was going on. Because as I started feeling more and more worthy of that attention and praise from strangers, lo and behold, I didn't mind the interaction as much. I was like, yeah, I'm happy to do this. I found myself offering. My wife and I were on on a flight and I said to the pilots, I was like, I don't know if you guys want a picture together. We're happy to do that. And they were like, Oh, my God, you guys are the first people to ever offer. And I was like, Oh, I loved that. Oh, it had nothing to do with those other things.

When you came up to me, and gave me attention and approval, I didn't think I deserved it.

Yeah. I was like, I feel- You retrofit all these justifications on it.

It just reminded me that I didn't deserve it. And I don't like that feeling. So I'd rather just not do it at all.

I think there's an advantage being a stand-up in these types of situations, and I think being a podcaster. Yes. Because when you're a character and you're an actor, you know that people love that character. They're like Ross from Friends. They want a picture with Ross. They don't want the guy who's acting as Ross. Yes. With Tom Cruise, like, Yeah, he's so famous, but I'm in love with Maverick. I don't really know anything about Tom Cruise. That can definitely curate this imposter syndrome, which does anybody really like? Nobody really knows me. Why do they even want a picture with me? When you're sharing your life as you do on the pod and people feel really connected with it and they want a picture with you- It's me.

It is the definition thereof. The podcast has been what has allowed me to accept it, because even if people would come up to me and say, I love idiocracy, I go, That's Mike Judges' compliment. That movie, and you love it because I'm my judge. I got to be in it, and I'm lucky, but it's not my... Parenthood, that's not my compliment. That's Jason Kadam's compliment. And I would always have whoever's compliment it was, but it never was mine.

I think a lot of... I would imagine a lot of actors go through that. Specifically because they understand what it is to write and direct a movie and how different that is to act in a movie. And not to say that there aren't actors that are incredibly talented. There are.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

But if If you follow directors that you really care about and writers you really care about, you'll tend to find a trend where you really enjoy all the works. If you just follow an actor, you're like, Oh, I didn't really like that one as much. Yeah.

In the best case scenario as an actor, you can not suck in things that suck. That's the high water. Yeah, you're right. A hundred %. That was Burt Reynolds's defining quality. And he ended up getting a chip on his shoulder at the height of his career, which was a bummer. And he said, I'm a Burt Reynolds superfan, and I have his play Boy interview from '79, where he has been the biggest movie star for eight of the last 10 years, almost unparalleled. And he's mad he's never gotten nominated for an Oscar. And he said, look, Dustin Hoffman's in this movie with this great script and this great director. Smoking the Banet was a 30-page outline. What I did in that... And he's right. On some level, he's right. He could start with nothing- I raise the bar of this movie. And deliver you the biggest movie of 1977. But you got to shut the fuck up about that. You got to just enjoy being the biggest movie star.

I've seen a trouble Bird movie, and he's the coolest guy on the screen, but he is that in everything. Bird or- Bird. Whatever I've seen. I've seen Long as Yard. I didn't finish it. I was rewatching Smoking the Banet, and then Netflix literally took it off the next day. How old are you? I'm 40. 40?

Yeah. I'm about to turn 50. Smoking the Banet was... I mean, that was the movie. If you could grow up drive a transam around for it. Even in the movie, Sally Field asked him, What do you do? And he goes, I show off. That's his fucking job. His job is to do donuts in a transam and embarrass the law enforcement trying to catch him. When I was a kid, I was like, That's what I want to do. I want to be the band.

But about getting recognized, I always say this about you. You're the best I've seen at being comfortable being yourself. I feel it's still a pressure to be as as possible and whatever. And then I'm like, I will do that, but I don't want to be here too long because I feel like this is a lot of pressure on me. He's from the guy code days, 2014, 2015. I would look at him, I'd be like, This guy's so fucking comfortable just being himself with these people. And I've always admired that.

I think it's the stand-up. It's like, if you like me for him, stand-up. That's something that I'm proud of and I work hard on. And I at least know that you're appreciating a thing that I've created.

You have total ownership over it. Yeah.

I do, too. But I'm still like, this is a lot.

It's also funny to say that, too, because you're right. You ask yourself, I remember watching Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee in Seinfelds with Gal Fennacus, and people are filming them, and that's annoying. There's a lot of layers to it. One is you don't have control. Well, I'm someone who likes control. And I also don't like if a dude is doing something and I've made it clear to that person, especially a dude, I don't like this, and you're still doing It triggers something for me that's like, well, you think you can dominate me or you can ignore what I'm saying? So again, step there. So there's that baggage. Then there's just you don't have control. Okay, five people want a pitcher, that's fine. But if the rest of the people in the restaurant just see someone getting their... They don't even fucking know who you are. But now they want in. And then there's a feeding frenzy. I've seen this with my wife. Well, that's just very uncomfortable and a tab bit scary, and you've just lost control of your environment. So that's all fine and dandy. But Seinfeld says to Galvanack, because he's like, you're really upset about this.

He goes, but it happened and it's over. And it was five minutes. He really frames it. Clearly, a dude who's had a lot of experience getting comfortable with it. At the end of the day, I just had to ask myself, well, who do I admire when I see them deal with it? And it's always the people that are that way. That are chill about it. I don't admire the guy that's got the boundaries and is good. Yeah, I don't want to be that guy ever. Because you lose, by the way. You feel bad when you're that way. I have been rude to people, particularly once we had kids. I still... You can't take pictures of my kids, and I don't like you filming. So that still gets a little triggered. But at the end of the day, even if I tell them, I'm nice, Please delete the photo of my kid. But then I just feel bad afterwards. I feel bad, they feel bad. Everyone feels pretty good. There's a loss for everybody. Versus if I go out of my way and be nice, I actually walk away and I go like, Yeah, I like myself better when I have that reaction.

Yeah, the boundary thing, I'm not big on it.

How do you play it when you're at a social function and you see someone, a hero of yours that's way more... That's super successful. You're like, holy shit, this guy's here. Do you go up to him and say, what's up? Specifically when you were younger in Hollywood. No, I never would do that. In fact, I've been around Bill Murray three times. He and Letterman are my gods. And I don't ever want to have an interaction with him until he wants to have one with me. It's not going to happen, but there are some people I was around and I waited long enough and then they did want to talk to me. And that's just... I don't want the interaction where they're trying to get away from me. I'd rather just look at them and not have that. That's my ego.

Do you ever have a moment where you met someone that you really admired and you were like, Oh, fuck, I wish I didn't... He's not who I looked up to or admired or whatever. A never meet your heroes moment.

That's a good question. I would have to give a name at that point, probably. I mean, I can just say that I had been around Brad Pitt a couple of times. And I would not say a word because I'm so in love with Brad Pitt. It's insane. And then through a crazy course of events, he did talk to me at some point, and I was like, Oh, here we go. I'm glad. A really funny one was Stern. Kimmel had a party for Howard Stern, as he does, right? He comes to LA, and Kimmel always goes to this great party. And Kristin and I were lucky enough to get invited to one of those. And then by luck had it that two weeks later, I ended up being on Stern for the first time. And he goes, Yeah, I'm seeing that you were at this party, Kimmel, through for me, but you didn't say hi. And I go, Well, yeah, I was trying to be the hot girl at the party that's ignoring you. And hopefully you'd be intrigued to come start talking to me. He goes, Well, that didn't work. I didn't even know who you were.

It totally backfired. I'm like, Yeah, that's the risk it runs. I probably could have met you, but I was like, I'll wait.

There's a... You know, Norm McDonald to put out this book. I think it was released maybe before he died or maybe it was after. I'm not exactly sure. But there was this excerpt in the book. I'm pretty sure it was Norm's. And he talked about how lucky he was being famous. It was interesting perspective because you could look at a guy like Norm. It was just so hilarious. You could see him having a perspective on fame that is very critical.

Misanthropic or something. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it wouldn't be punk rock enough. Exactly.

But I thought it was good. He was, For the last 40 years, whatever it is, I got the best version of everyone I met. Every person that came up to me was happy. They were excited. They were on their best behavior. You grew up in... I mean, you were from Detroit. Can you spend some time in LA? When people are not famous, they treat you like shit in the fucking way. And the fact that when people approach you, there's a smile, there's excitement, and then a little picture that you give to them, they walk away, they're like, Holy shit. I think a lot of times, if we don't reflect on how lucky we are that those are the majority of our social interactions as human beings, and only 0.0 0.01% of people get to have that? Yes. Man, and we're lucky, dude. Let's take a break for a second. I got to make sure you got the best wallet on the planet. And oh, my God, they just put in a nice little secret compartment that you can keep whatever you want in. I'm not going to say what I would keep in it, But one could keep whatever you want in.

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Well, two things. I read an interview with Owen Wilson, again in Playboy, and he had a line there. It's the articles. It's the articles. It's really the articles for you. It wasn't raunchy enough for me to masturbate to. I had other material that I looked at for that, but then I really was there for the interviews. They were the best ever. But Owen was in an interview. I've memorized half of this interview in Playboy. He said so many funny things, but one of them was exactly that. He said, the guy asked, Do you mind getting recognized? And he goes, Well, you got to see that you're pretty much like, where you go, you're giving people the greatest part of their day just by being there. It's cool. And I was like, oh, that's great. The question he answered, I think, is so Owen and funny. He said, do you have any tricks about getting out of speeding tickets? And he goes, Yeah, what I try to do when I get pulled over is just start talking to the guy and make a couple jokes and be friendly. And what you're really heading towards is that moment where he just looks up and goes, look at us on the side of this road playing our roles in this crazy game called Life.

That's where he's trying to get to, is where you both just laugh at the comedy of this crazy game called Life. Oh, my God. He had also just read a book on dog breeding, and he recited half of this book in the interview. In the interview? Yes. But I do want to... In the interview, yes, half of it is about this dog breeding.

Was he promoting Marley and me, or was he just- No, unrelated to Marley and me, but great dig.

But back to the people treating you like shit. This is a funny thing I have with my wife, which is we have... Our youngest daughter is my wife. She's charisma on a thousand. Everywhere she goes, everyone falls in love with her. And I said, after I watched Delta go through life for about six years, I was laying in bed with Kristin and I was like, You have no fucking clue what life on planet Earth is like. You don't know. Because this was you growing up. Just a pretty super character. Everywhere you went, everyone was happy to see you. You go to Starbucks, they can't wait to ask you your order. I'm like, You don't have any... Now I know. Now that I'm wanting this little person just float through life with this butterfly of charisma, I'm now realizing you don't know what's happening in the real world. Most people hate you upon seeing you, and they don't want to help you, and they don't want to be inconvenienced, and that's life on planet Earth. That's not your experience. But she has no clue that that's part of- When you said that, what was her reflection?

She just laughed.

That is so interesting. The social part of life, which is probably the most anxiety-inducing to most people, there are some people that can float through that effortlessly. Mccona Hay is one of For whatever reason, he is comfortable being McConaher.

And Kristin, for her to get famous wasn't some huge... You see a lot of dudes, particularly dudes in Hollywood, they weren't social butterflies in high school. Women did not like them. And now all of a sudden, they have all this access and people like them. And then there's this distrust, and then there's this weird misogyny that comes about. It's like a cauldron of grossness. Whereas Kristin was like, Wait, everyone likes me now? Yeah, everyone has always liked me. That's how it should look. Now, there's just more people. I think that was a very easy transition for her.

Dude, you're right about the misogyny that comes from it because it's that same imposter syndrome. I don't deserve it. Now, they like me. It can't be for me. It must be for this success. You don't really like me. I resent you for liking this thing. Yes. Oh, man.

And it happens with billionaires. How do you build a relationship on that? By the way, this was our conversation with McConaher. I'm like, You're one of the guys that this has just been consistent.

It's gotten bigger and bigger. Exactly. The guys get a lot of money, especially the tech guys. They want to be in the social scene. Yeah, tech guys get a lot. But they resent the fact that people only are inviting them to things or even coming to their parties because they have the big Hollywood mansion.

I know. And they purposely got it for that reason. And they resent that it's working. But it doesn't fill the hole.

Okay, let's talk about filling the hole. Now that you've gotten success, is there a moment Well, you've always had a level of success, for sure. But now I think it's, at least through the success of the pod, has just- Well, it's just what metric are you looking at?

Because really now it's just financial. Probably in the past, I was more recognizable. I I was on a Parenthood for six years that ran on Stop Punk was really big. Some of these movies were big. So there were recognizably, I'm sure I was more recognizable seven years ago.

But the depth of connection you have with your lets your supporters influence.

The armchairs. I think you're underplaying. It's a part of the zeitgeist. Yeah. Armchairs, expert on experts. I don't think, and I don't mean this in any disrespect, Parenthood wasn't part of the zeitgeist. It was a hit show.

Well, you also weren't a 36-year-old woman in 2008. When I think of the zeitgeist, I don't think of that very specifically. Thank you, and I concede to all that. But basically what we're trying to say is there's a metric for success that we all have, things that we want to achieve, and that maybe they will fill that void.

Maybe some people don't have a void, and there's just things they really enjoy doing. Do you feel that you have... One, did you have a void?

Oh, my God, I was a fucking addict. Okay. I got a manhole cover inside.

I presume. But do you think that... Are you at this point now where you're like, I don't need to do anything else, and I feel accomplished, and I have filled it all up? Or are you still fighting? You get this deal, you're like, What's the next one? No. What's the next biggest guest.

No, but it wasn't the deals that gave me that, although they certainly play a role. There's no question. But kids are what do that for you. What was so incredible Look, I had other movies that had failed before Chips, but Chips was the most heartbreaking because I had spent so much time on it. But I came home, I was on a car ride home, and I was really depressed. And then I walked in the door I was like, oh, yeah, these kids don't know that you've made a movie. They don't give a fuck, and you're still dad. Being dad is the first identity I've put on that is real and substantive and permanent and cannot be taken from me and is not at the whimsy of the box officer. What was happening? This is a real identity. I am these two girls' dads, and that is my number one job. Everything else can suck a dick. I like it all, but it doesn't fucking matter. These kids are everything. So they really filled a good chunk of the hole. I have real purpose. I actually care about some people more than myself, which was new.

It's an important- And then the other stuff, and what's Money is like, I'm a greedy pig.

I was obsessed with money. I was hard to negotiate with. I wanted the most as an actor. I wanted the most as a director. I wanted to make money. And then I did not do podcast to make money. I did not think you could make money in a podcast. I didn't know there was money in a podcast. Isn't it funny how life works? I didn't think it would be big. I thought I'd like to talk to people, and I like to be in a guest on people's podcast. And I thought, well, why don't I do this for fun? And then Lo and behold, that's the thing. That's how it works.

What are you thinking happens when you start the podcast? What do you think? I remember Gordon actually saying- Real quick, before we get into the podcast, can we talk about the kids real quick?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Because you have a little I got a wrong girl.

I got a wrong girl, yeah. I was really fortunate. My parents were awesome. I'm super grateful for that experience. My dad was awesome. Handsome. Handsome, but a really great dad who had a shit dad. I think he decided, I'm not going to be a shit dad.

He was making up for. And it worked. Yeah.

Okay, but this feeling that they are the deciding factor. They are the arbiter of your happiness in a lot of ways. It's not this random, Oh, you post a video, and if people watch it or if people like this interview, which has been most of your life, you're submitting yourself to the whims of the public. The arbiter of your work.

Yeah.

Okay. So now you have these two kids. How much weight is on you for... Are you concerned about their success? Do you just concern about loving them as they start to become human Are you trying to push them in certain directions you think will be beneficial? Right now, I'm just loving her, and that's the thing that I do, and it's the best in the world. But there's going to be a time where she's going to ask me questions, and I have these conversations with myself right now where I'm like, Okay, is this the best answer for this? Maybe I should talk to my friends and ask them, Am I equipped to solve life's problems?

Yeah, but isn't it so fun? But generally, you're mulling over and ruminating on something something that's really quite pointless. You're like, yeah, what are my ratings? What are these things? But those questions are like, they're so real and important. I love just thinking about them. I don't have the playbook. My kids have a swimming pool in their backyard. I don't know. I didn't have a swimming pool. I'm like, Oh, is money going to fuck them up? Will they be hungry?

Do you worry about that?

Well, where I've landed on all of it is in a weird way, I obsess about money So much of my life was about that. I had a fantasy of what having it would feel like, what it would do for me, what it would heal. That wasn't the case. Maybe for other people, it wasn't the case for me. I got to find that out. I'm lucky enough to have found that out. So in some weird way, I feel like, well, maybe they'll be liberated from that. They don't have to go make money. If the thing they do does make money, awesome. If it doesn't, also, they're going to be okay. What I care the most about, and by the way, you'll observe this, is I was in my backyard, we had a patio, and there were these steel poles that held up an overhang, and they're, whatever, seven feet tall. And when Lincoln was about two, I'm just sitting out there doing whatever, and she starts trying to climb the pole. She just did it over and over and over and over again for an hour until she got to the top. I went, Oh.

She'll be good.

She got it. She genetically has got it. If she wants something, she's going to fucking kill herself until she can do it. And then I just took a breath. I'm like, okay. Relief. Also, her mom's a go getter. I'm a go getter. Odds are they're probably genetically hit the lottery in some level as far as being hungry and go getterness. So now I'm just like, I just want them to catch fire for something. I don't give a fuck what it is. My ego wants them to be writers because I'm a writer and that's the shittiest job and the one I feel proudest about. So I want them to be writers, but I don't care. As long as they're on fire for it and they're trying really hard at it, that's great. I want them to be fucking losers and live at my house for the rest of my life. I used to think I wanted them to go to a.

No, don't ever go.

Don't go to college, flunk out, and fucking live at my house for life. Okay.

The relationship with you and your wife. I imagine they are learning how to be treated and how to treat a guy through your relationship. Yeah. My Your parents set the expectation of how I should treat a girl and how a girl should treat me, right?

Yes.

I probably reflect on that through every certain situation I'm in, even in my marriage, right?

Yes.

Are you cognizant of that, in your treatment of one another in front of them? If you guys ever get into a fight, are you concerned that that will be normalized?

No. We do a thing that will trigger a lot of people, I think, on the far right, which is if we do get in a fight and we resolve it behind closed doors, which is what most couples do. All the kids saw was the fight part. So they get good at knowing how to escalate things. They don't see the resolution part. So we were in a pretty good habit of when they saw a dust up and then we resolved it, we would then tell them, Hey, I said to mom, look, when you said this, it was me being eight years old. I thought you were going to do this. And then mom says, and we tell them how we resolved it.

My wife sent me that clip. I think it's fucking awesome.

Oh, thank you. I think that's fucking awesome. I think for some people, for some reason- There's pushback on this? There's pushback on a lot of stuff we do. But yes, that seemed I don't know people think kids don't need to see that or something. I don't know what it is.

Maybe they just- Teaching kids how to resolve is massive. For my friend, I never grew up knowing how to resolve anything.

No, of course not. It's just like magic happened. All of a sudden, it blew over, but you missed out on the whole.

Yeah, your parents just tell you it's okay couples fight, and that's it.

But the thing you're saying about, way more than I'm conscious of it with my wife. I'm conscious of it with them, which is, let's just assume the stereotype that girls married their dad is semi-true. I certainly married my mom. There's no question about it. That's a big responsibility. If they're going to go out and try to get me, then how am I treating them? Just right out of the gates, I take everything they say seriously. I'm a listening. I am asking follow-up questions. So if they meet a dude that's not listening to them or isn't, they're going to be like, What the fuck is this? They'll expect that, whether they... I don't yell at them. I have fucking boundaries, and I'm the disciplinarian, but I don't yell. I don't get physical with them. Just these little things that this is what they expect from a dude for life. Anyone falling short of that, they're going to be like, What the fuck? What is this? This isn't what I'm used to. I even took it so far that I was like, Okay, if I ride vehicles and girls marry their dads, probably she'll date a dude that rides a motorcycle, and then there's no way I can have her on the back of some 16-year-old's motorcycle.

And I'm like, the only way you inoculate someone from that is she's got to ride because no one who rides is ever riding on the back of a motorcycle. So my girls have been riding a motorcycle since they were five years old. Wow, that's far. And I'm like, Yeah, they ain't getting on back of Because you're like, I'm not going to stop riding a motorcycle. I don't know if this helps.

I heard it from a guy who was a great father, but it was even before he had kids. Luther, my best friend from college. We were talking India You grew up in an Indian household. So much conversation is, what are you going to be when you grow up? And when they ask that, they mean, how are you going to be a doctor? I was joking around- There's other options I've heard.

You can be an engineer.

Yeah, but all of those are disappointing.

Okay. Backup plan is there.

Doctor is, yeah, that's the thing. And I was talking to him about, what do you want your kid to be? Blah, blah, blah. And he just said, honestly, all I want is for my kids to be good people. And that was so simple but blew my fucking mind that, oh, yeah, that's all that matters. Just be good people.

So what's interesting is that's Kristin's position, and it's a great one. I also think they need... Shit does hit the fan.

Yeah.

And this, by the way, is what I love about raising kids together with her. She has a completely different point of view than I do. We have completely different experiences. If one of our kids becomes an addict, she's not going to know what the fuck to do. That's my domain. If they want to go to school and study musical theater, they go talk to mom. That's what she did. But that just lines up. So I think they're getting a... I hope they're getting a nice dose of like, Chris and I are opposites. And we somehow live in the same house. We have the same two kids, and we took different routes to get here. So I think that's of the fun of having a partner is like, yeah, she's making them very kind. I'm also like, when you walk by a dude, look him straight in the eyes. I see you. I'm not looking away. I'm not afraid. I'm here. They're getting that, too. And hopefully, they're picking up both. They're going to fuck people up and sing about it. Really, they're fucking jiggly puffs. Outsider's the musical. Yeah, exactly. Do you get worried because they're going to grow up privileged and you became the person you are through all the things you've had to deal with.

Do you feel like you need to try to instill some of those things into them?

Yeah, like manufacture some challenges and struggles. Struggle. Yeah, I'm super aware of that. And yes, we could make the world pretty easy for them if we wanted to use all the resources. But no, they go to a public school. Oh, really? Yeah, I'm like, No, you're going to have to go. I don't want you to only know how to talk to rich kids. You got to learn to talk to everybody. There's a lot of little things I do make them do that's completely unnecessary. But yeah, I don't want them just to know how to talk to other kids with rich parents and get down with. I think the thing that I do like most about myself is I can get down with anybody. I can go Bill Gates for a fucking week to India and chat with that dude and be good. And then I can sit at a fucking gas station in Detroit and talk to six dudes that are going to a club, and I can do that. And then I can talk to the hillbillies at Drag Racing. So I love that. I want to be able to talk and connect with everybody, and I want that for them.

I would not want them to miss out on how many radical-So you have to put them in those situations in order to develop that skillset. I'm in the cars, right? We'll go cruise Crenshaw on a Sunday when it's hot, and we'll post up in the Lincoln, and I pull the girls' bicycles out, and they're just riding their bikes on Crenshaw. I'm like, We're the only white folks there with the fucking cool car. I'm like, That's right. Start talking to people. Let's get this going. Did you read any books on the topic or anything that was productive? No, my wife read a ton of books, though, and reported them back to me every night. How awesome is that?

Thank God I'm not the only one. I feel so guilty about this. My wife learns everything. She sits there, she pours through Google searches and books, and then she just... She's ChatGPT for me. I just prompt her, and then boom. But thank God, okay.

There's a really good... I want to say it's- Make an effort.

Read some books. I got the book. I got them.

They're there. I put them on the Kindle as well.

I don't know.

If I can defend you, also, you just grew up with a great dad, so you just saw it every day, so you didn't really try to feel like- She kept smiling when I played with her. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? That seems to be working. What are we doing is working Yeah. You had a shit dad, so I don't know why you didn't read a book.

My mom was radical. My parenting techniques are mostly just my mom, which was like everything was on the table. You could talk about anything. There's no kid gloves. There's no lines. Lying. I'm a big fan of just not... If you can get through it all without a line.

What about a relationship? Obviously, you have a kid. The relationship changes drastically. How did you guys manage that with first kid?

Speaking of these books, one of the books we got before our first kid arrived was Brain Rules for Babies. And thank God, the first chapter you read is like, they tell you right in the first chapter. I want to say the number, it's either like 68 or 70. It says 70 % of marriages get worse after kids. We're like, okay, that's a good heads up. So I think going into it knowing like, no, it's going to get fucking worse. It's going to get harder. You're going to have less time for each other, less patience, less sleep. You're going to become co-managers of these fucking kids. And that's hard. And we've had hard stretches. I will say, though, they do get to an age. And I think a lot of people don't make it through that part. Life starts coming back in like, oh, we can go on a three-day trip. We can do this. And it starts seeping back in. But yeah, if I had charted how hard it got, it would certainly peak. When they're six and four years old, forget it. You're like, Cool, I live with this gal. I think these are our kids.

We're doing this together. But I can't imagine she wants to see me.

It's reality distorting. Yes. Because When you're with the kid, it's euphoric. They laugh and they smile, and then you and your wife are the happiest you've ever been in your life. So you're like, Yeah, we're happy. Everything's good. But then you guys aren't spending any time together, even though you're together. So you feel like you're getting that same emotional diet satisfied, but you're not at all. We actually had to sit down and reflect on it. We're like, What is different here? We're spending tons of time together, and then we're like, Oh, no. We don't talk the same way. Going out to dinner is much more difficult. We're exhausted. And we had to make a conscious effort to pour back in a little, even if it's 30 minutes.

Also, the amount of compromise, I guess it depends. I certainly know dads that are like, Yeah, you decide everything. I'll pay for everything. Well, that's not the scenario in my life. My wife is a gangster, and she's going to have a lot of say and whatever. And I'm very opinionated. So I think even the kids and how we're going to raise them and making all these minute to minute decisions, that's just Chris and I's nature. We come from different points of view. We generally have to compromise. So it's just like another thing to compromise about. But it's now something you care way more about than you did about what restaurant you're going to. So you're like, no, this is vital to me. They have to be this way. So, yeah, it's a recipe for just a lot of stress, and it gets rough.

Preparing for that is, I think, and once you can view it through that lens, doing anything exhausted is tough. If somebody was like, Hey, there's no kid, but you're going to be exhausted in your relationship for the next eight months, you'd be like, Okay, this is going to be a little harder.

Yes, exactly. Or the For the next few years.

For the years, exactly.

You guys are going to be your worst self for the next five years. Good luck. Just tell us that.

What happens is that you're smacked in the face with it a few months in. You're like, What the hell is going on? Being able to reflect. For us, that was very helpful. Like huge. And at least you understand it. And then when you can pour back in, even if it's tiny little bits of time, there's this reminder of just why we got to the point where we're like, Hey, we really want to bring life into this world.

This is pretty awesome. Yeah. Well, this is pathetic, but there were moments in that stretch where I would be at my sink brushing my teeth, and I would force myself to look over at her brushing her teeth, and I'd go, That's a real person right there. That's a human being who needs love and is afraid and needs compassion and comforting. She's a real... But she's not a fucking robot mom. No. As much as we're both now robot parents, I'm But I had to take... I had to be thoughtful and go like, That's a little girl over there who's in over her head, just like, I'm a little boy who's in over my head. Okay, yeah. Hi. Hi. This is hard, huh? Yeah. It's scary, right? You're afraid you're doing a bad job.

Yeah. You've been with Chris since 17 years now? Yeah. What is the number one piece of advice you have to make it last?

Oh, man. We were lucky enough that we started therapy three months in the dating. This is not going to work. We were explosive together at first. I will say now, having done it that way, it was like my previous relationship, which was long as well. It was nine years, We went to couples therapy at the end, and it's like taking your car to the shop. It's like, the trans is blown two shoulders throughout. You should have fucking changed the oil knucklehead eight years ago. I will say, we went in. They were short. We didn't do a ton of them. But the dude was like, here's what's happening. You guys are stuck in this pattern. He says this, you always say this. That triggers this. Stop saying that and stop doing this. It was really pragmatic. It wasn't like a ethereal. We had to connect with our inner child. It was like, Stop saying this. And when you say this. And so I think, luckily, we broke a few patterns that would have destroyed us really early on. That was helpful. And then I would It is credit for me AA, which is like in AA, I figured out how to assess what was going on with me in situations.

I don't know that I would have learned that had I not had to be an AA, which is like, There's one step in particular, which is crazy effective. It's the four step, and it's really good. It's misleading. First, all they ask you to do is write 100 people, write all the people you have resentments against. And you're like, oh, that's fucking easy. I hate that teacher. I hate this person. I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate. And then in the next column, you have to say, what did that person threaten in your life? And so you write what they threatened, my financial security, my status. By the way, there's only six things people threatened. And then you look at this list and you hate 150 people and you realize what fear they're triggering. It's three fucking fears. If I have these three fears, my status, my social, or my financial security. If I don't have those three fears, I don't have problems. These hundred people aren't on this list. And then the last column is like, well, what am I doing? So the example, I think they gave him the book, which is great. It's like, I hate Bob from work.

What does Bob do? He's constantly trying to get me fired. What does that threaten? My financial security. What's my role in it? Well, if I don't show up late, there's really nothing Bob can say to the boss. And you're like, okay, great. So now I know my three fears. I also know what I'm doing that enables all that cycle to happen. So just practicing that for years, when Chris and I would get in a fight, I at least knew enough to go like- That's interesting. Whatever is going on right now, I know is not going on. I know me good enough. Now, one of these three things is really being threatened right now. Give me five. I just want to figure out which of those three things is happening. And now I can come back into this and go like, yeah, I feel really emasculated when that happens. I'm worried about my status all the time. And it's a shitty character defect of mine. And I overreacted.

And let's go forward. And they got their character defects. And usually that's all that's-Yeah, she's got her list of three things that she's constantly triggered over.

And so I think just learning to pause fights and figure out what was actually happening with me other than the dishwasher or the whatever thing you think it's about, going like, it's never, ever about any of those things. It's about these three core fears I have. And if I can figure out which one of it is, I can really right size it in my head. Like, oh, this is an old thing. I had to apologize to my now nine-year-old. We're laying in bed. She had given me a riddle the day before. I had answered it. Now we're laying in bed, and she tells me that I got the answer wrong. And I'm like, no, honey. I said whatever. I give the same answer to the riddle. She's like, no, no, you said this. And I'm like, that's not... And now all of a sudden, I'm in an actual power struggle with an eight-year-old in bed about whether I said this or that. And then she got cranky and I got cranky and I was just a dick. I wouldn't let up about it. I'm like, Yeah, you got this one wrong. I said that. I'm like, There's no way I would say that.

I know math really well, whatever the thing was. That night, I go to bed. I'm like, That was weird. That's not how you talk to Delta. And then the next morning, I came to her and I go, Listen, I want to apologize about last night. I overreacted. I was dyslexic in school. I got sent to the learning disabled room. I walk around with people thinking I'm stupid. And if there's any moment where I look stupid, I overreact so bad. And that was what happened last night. I don't know whether I got the riddle right or not. Who knows? But that's what was going on. I'm sorry that I was taking that out on you. And my apologies. And she goes, oh, Daddy, I'm so sorry you had to go to Learning Disabled. I was like, this is fantastic. Back to how do you handle these things? When you get one right, you're like, oh, that's right. That's what you do. You just go your shit, and then they immediately meet you with compassion and understanding, and it's great. The fight's almost worth having to hear her say, Oh, Daddy, I'm so sorry you had to go to Learning Disabled.

But the radical accountability. Yeah. That work, I guess from AA It's like, I'm going to figure out what I can control, what I'm doing wrong.

Well, because I can't live with my own. You think... I don't live with other people's mistakes. I live with mine. People have wronged me. Tons of people have wronged me over the last 50 years. I'm not in bed thinking about those. I'm in bed thinking about, shit, I did in eighth grade. Shit, I did in twelth grade, shit, I did a 24. I have the laundry list in my head of things I fucked up. So it's like, I can't live with the discomfort of, if I've recognized I've done something wrong, I just got to go clean it up because I'm the one that's going to suffer from it. The other person, Delta wouldn't have thought about that thing the next day, but I'll think about it. And so it's my own, probably selfish preservation. But I can't live with a big pile of errors.

The forgiveness is for self. A lot of people have said that. The value of forgiveness. It's allowing you to relinquish these feelings, not simply letting that other person get over it or get away with.

Another great saying from AA is, resenting people is like drinking poison and hoping they die.

Yeah, you're the one.

You're the only one that's things living inside of. It's like, what a victory to give this person you're already mad at. You're fucking cancering yourself up. Yeah. So, yeah. Aa, I hope you guys all join. Can I ask a question really quick?

Yeah, sure.

I'm a huge Arm Cherry. Big fan. I find that hard to believe, but thank you.

No, I'm a huge fan. Between day seven, Laura Gottlieb and Anna Kendrick, I probably listen to one of those every month.

Oh, my God. I love those episodes. Thank you. Is there an episode that people tell you that was the most impactful to them that you hear the most often? Yeah, day seven, certainly one of those. That one's hard for me to receive that compliment, probably for obvious reasons. But I interviewed my mom, and that's one that people constantly bring up. Because she told her whole story completely shame-free and honestly, and it was awesome. And there were even moments... Because my mom's super-duper open, and we have great communication. But even something about putting the interviewer hat on, I found myself getting curious about things I had never asked her. And then I got some profound answers that blew me away. One was, which I had never thought to ask her. I'm like, How could someone like you, who's so brave and confident, have been with someone like Greg who was beating you? That seems so disjointed from my idea of who you are. And she said, Well, I had just gotten divorced from your dad. I met Greg. I got married too soon. My family was already completely disappointed in me that the first marriage failed.

And I just thought, Here I am again. And the shame of admitting I failed a second time is worse than getting hit. And I was like, Oh, whoa, fuck, dude. Yeah. And shame. Boy, talk about the thing that is the most powerful. I'll get my ass kicked instead of feeling the shame of failure. Family and failure. Yeah. Yeah. So that was radical. I was like, Oh, I get it. I didn't even know I was curious, but yeah, I was. I was like, How could you... You're not my stereotype of someone who ends up in that situation.

That actually leads into something I wanted to ask earlier. You are fantastic on the podcast. I think oftentimes, actors, the more we get to know them, the more we're like,. I'm good. I'm okay. There's not really a lot going on. It's like you have a void internally. They have a void that we all see that is their personality. At what point- That's so true. I remember I just relistened to the episode with Gordon, and he said, as soon as you started the podcast, this is what you need to be doing. At what point are you like, Oh, this is my lane, and I'm being validated for who I am. I I want to know that whole what you're going through as that whole thing is happening. You're starting the pod, you're realizing it's big. Oh, this is the moment. This is what I've made it.

Well, let me own one of my previous judgments of Joe Rogan, which was I remember him announcing he was never going to act again or host anything. He was just going to do his podcast. And I remember, because, again, I'm insecure and I'm constantly thinking of what people think I'm failing or not failing. I remember thinking, you're You're just not getting the roles you want. I had that judgment of him. And at some point in Armchair Expert, because there was a moment where I was on, I was a cast member of The Ranch, Bless This Mess, and hosting Top Gear America and doing the podcast, which was way too much and was bonkers. And I was really happy as doing the podcast. And I think my ego was like, again, because I had made that judgment of Rogan like, oh, if I quit acting, people are going to think I just failed out of it. And at some point, I realized- Leaving the Ranch, nobody sees this failure.

I'm going to let you know that right now. Okay, well. You need to be honest with me.

Thank you. At some point I was like, no, I like this thing more. I don't really care whether it looks like I have been kicked out of show business or not. And then also, I totally believe Rogan a thousand %. And not like I was ever saying it out loud that that was the case. But in my mind, I'm like, I owe that, dude, an amends. I was wrong. Of course, he likes that more. It's so much better. But I did have one moment that was really interesting, which is Adam Grant, this guy I've had on four times. He's a Wharton psychologist, the professor there, and he writes all these New York Times pieces and stuff. He's a popular intellectual. I was telling him, my whole story was, oh, chips failed. I really didn't know what I was going to do. I only wanted to write and direct, and that wasn't on the table anymore. So then I started this just out of boredom. And then my failure led to the greatest thing that happened to me. And he said, I wonder if it's as separate as you think it is. And I said, well, it's completely separate, acting and writing, directing in a podcast.

And he said, well, what was your favorite part of making TV shows and movies? And I was like, Video Village. Video Village is where the director sits, and it's where the monitors are, and it's where you'll go and watch playback after a scene. And this is where all the actors and the creative people are gathered around these monitors, and you're just shooting the shit. And I go, if I'm being honest, my favorite thing of show business is fucking Video Village. I can be on set for 12 hours at Video Village shooting the shit with other people that moved out of their little town to come here. I love that. And he goes, I think you just moved Video Village to your backyard because all the same people you wanted to talk to are now coming. And now you don't have to do any of the other stuff. You just isolated the thing you actually like the most. And now you're doing that part of it full-time. And I was like, wow, maybe that is what happened. I wasn't calculating that or doing it intentionally, but it is what happened.

It's funny you say Video Village because I also think part of your appeal, and again, I think we see you as Hollywood, I don't want to say elite as a compliment, but you're in that circle. But to me, you're a guy who gets what most Americans are going through in a way that I think a lot of them pretend they do and do not. And there's been times where you'll have very nuanced Wants thoughts, and you'll meet with resistance. The Jonathan Van Ness episode comes to mind, where you are being empathetic to what Conservatives are feeling about trans issues, even if you don't agree with them. And I think that is your superpower to us as regular people I think. How is that dealing with maybe... I think we have this idea that you need to have these certain beliefs to be in Hollywood or to be accepted in that circle. Is that tough for you to navigate? Do you not care?

Well, I care. I have my own opinions. And if you're at dinner with me, you'll hear my opinions, political or otherwise. But I have a much bigger mission with the podcast, which is I want young dudes to look at me and go like, oh, yeah, that guy rides wheelies on motorcycles. And he talks about being molested, and he talks about trauma, and he talks about addiction, and he's vulnerable. That's the main thrust. I don't care about my political opinions as much as I care about the dudes who've come up to me and been like, I went to a meeting because I listened to your show. I've been sober 18 months. My brother's talking to me again. Those moments are insane. To have someone come up to me and go like, I agree. That politician is an asshole. Great. I am also... My own pride is like, it's embarrassing to me that people are spouting off these opinions that half the country has. Whatever opinion you're popping off with, And guess what? 150 million people have that opinion. It's not that fucking interesting or novel. It's boring as fuck. It's the most pedestrian thing you say all day.

Your take on pizza is more interesting because It's probably more unique than 150 million people agree with you. So it's like, A, it's fucking boring. B, everyone already does it. I remember Stern getting a lot of criticism that he wasn't getting really political when it was being called for. And he's like, it's okay to have a place you go that you don't have to hear that shit. And for me, I made a commitment early on, this isn't the place for that. And if you want that, guys, turn to any other fucking station, you'll hear it. Yeah.

Well, one thing you have is that there's a much smaller subsection, people who have empathy for the other side's opinions. That's not 150 million people.

I agree. That's not 50 million. The only political opinion I'm happy talking about in public is I do not believe half the country is bad. I just don't believe that. Forget what side I'm on. I don't believe half the country is evil or bad or wants the ruin of this country. I think we have different opinions. I think everyone probably wants the best for this place, and we have different opinions on how to get there. And guess what? Both sides are fucking wrong all the time. I have to remind the people in my bubble like, Yo, we came up with communism. Got to remind you the liberals want a communism. So I'm like, This isn't a fucking... We're all really fallible. And I can't even be comfortable until I think I understand at least what your intention is. I need to understand why you feel that way or you're motivated that way, because the scariest thing to me is being around somebody that I don't understand, that is unpredictable, that I can't predict how they're going to feel. That, to me, scares me. So I just really need to know, what is it that you're latched on to here that's emotional?

And generally, if I take the time to do that, I force myself to make the argument that the other side would have. I go like, yeah, it's rational for them and from their point of view, and they're not bad. We have a different opinion. I just, I reject that half the country is this or that.

How do you feel about the Jews?

Love them.

Love the Jews. Good answer. Guys, it's been Jack Sheffield.

Love them the most. Thank you so much. This is awesome. Thanks for having me.