Wndri Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now. Join WNDRI Plus in the WNDRI app or on Apple podcast, or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcast. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Rather, and I'm joined by Modice Mouse. Hi. Do you know Modice Mouse is going on tour this summer? And I really want to see them. Oh my God. They're not coming to the West Coast.

Oh, well, do you think they'll send us some merch? Because I would really love a shirt that says that.

Modice Mouse, will you send us some merch? We should just go buy some merch. They were just here in the fall. I saw them. They were here in the fall? Yeah. They did a good news tour. They're doing a Southern tour. I saw Asheville's on the list. So maybe while I'm in Nashville, I can go see them somewhere. Anyways, that's not who our guest is. It's not Modest Mouse. I do love Modest Mouse. Our guest is Nikki Glazer. This couldn't have been more fun. I am so delighted that we decided to explore.

Our history.

Our It was so fun. I really, really, really like her. She's a stand-up comedian, an actor, and a television host. Her credits include Nikki Glazer, Someday You'll Die. Great stand-up routine. F-boy Island, Welcome Home, Nikki Glazer. Not safe with Niki Glazer. Banging. And her tour, you can go see her right now, live. She is coming by you. I've looked at the list. She's going everywhere. It's a huge tour. It's called A Live and Unwell Tour. Go to nikiglazer. Com for tickets.

She hosts the Golden Globes.

G-squared. Big event. That's right. Please enjoy Niki Glazer. I'm John Robbins, and joining me on How Do You Cope this week is the musician, writer, and presenter, Jordan Stevens.

I didn't tell my therapist that I had cheated.

That was one of the things that she was most confused about.

I think, honestly, before that point, I might have been lying a little bit in therapy.

I might not have really been understanding what it was that I could do in there.

I definitely didn't think it was a safe space because I didn't tell my therapist what I'd That's How Do You Cope with me, Jon Robbins.

Find us wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Afwa Hirsch. I'm Peter Frankerpern. In our podcast, Legacy, we explore the lives of some of the biggest characters in history. This season, Chingis Khan. Best known for his brutal campaigns, he was accused of causing millions of deaths, but he also gave his followers religious freedom and education. So is there more to his story than violence Violence and Bloodshed? I suspect that there might be, Peter. And since Violence and Bloodshed is basically all I ever learned about Genghis Khan growing up, I'm actually really curious to find out what lies behind the legend. I can promise you are in for a treat because the Mongols were capable of exceptional acts of brutality. But all the stuff in the positive column either is never talked about or gets brushed to one side. So I'm really grateful to have the chance to speak up for Mongol history. Follow Legacy Now wherever you get your podcasts. Or binge entire seasons early and ad free on WNDYRI Plus. In the hours and days before a podcast like this, I'm like, Oh, people are just having to study me right now. Yeah, does it make you nervous?

No, it makes me feel bad because I have imposter syndrome that I'm not good. I'm like, he's going to know that I'm not good now. If he pays too much attention, he's going to figure out that I'm a fraud.

He reads between the lines.

Yes. If you just look at the things that are posted, you're like, Oh, she's talented. But if you get into it, you might like...

Let me ask you just a baseline. How nervous do you get for things? Obviously, you're brave as fuck. You go on stage. But when you go to Stern, and I'm not comparing myself to that, just what's the nerves out of 10 for Stern?

I set things up so that I can't be because I'm so worried about the roast or I'm so worried about the globes that it's almost like, Oh, I have to do stern, too. So it takes away from that.

You don't even have an opportunity to spin out about it because it's just too much shit's in front of you.

I love when things happen last minute or they just are thrust upon you. I don't like to have a lot of time to think about things. When I do, I freak out. Everything in my life is five minutes before every appointment. My assistant will be like, Do you want 30 minutes between that? I go, For what? To think about what I've just done? So no, everything's stacked.

The first time I did Stern, I laid in bed that night, anticipating every single conceivable question. And then planning what my response would be. That's good, I think. I mean, it was in some way because I went in knowing, okay, I've slept with some famous women. I know he's going to want to talk about that. I have to have a game plan for that. I'm obviously not going to talk about it, but I don't want to piss him off or disappoint the audience.

Yeah, you want to be a fun guest.

Yes. So what worked was I was I'm going to pivot to addiction every time because I know he also loves that, and I'm happy to give him that. And that's just me.

It's like either talk about anal or your addictions and your neurosis. Who's Virginia? Which are all the same thing, really. Yeah, they really are. They're connected. Yeah, they're all connected. They are. Absolutely. I tend to underprepare so that when it goes poorly, I have an excuse. I think that's also why I stack my life is so that I don't have time to prepare, so I always have an excuse for when I'm not good.

Yeah, you have some plausible deniability.

But it never goes poorly if I plan. Planning does work. I should just do that.

Do you do what I do, which is, and we'll go right to it, when I had heard... Did you hear us talking about the Golden Gloves thing?

I don't like to hear people talking about me, so I did not listen, but I heard it was talked about.

Almost you have to because people never relay it the same. I'll hear like, so and so was shit talking you, and then I listened to it. I'm like, that's not really what happened.

No, you should listen back.

So my experience was bumping into Jesse Eisenberg. Him telling me, did you hear we were in the New York Times yesterday. And I'm like, no, I didn't know we were in the New York Times. And he said, yes, apparently Nikki had written two jokes that were too hot for TV.

Too hot.

And it was in the New York Times. So I returned to my seat before the monolog starts I'm thinking, she's going to fuck me up hardcore. I'm sure the version she backed off of is still going to destroy my feelings. So I... Hold on. This is not to make you feel guilty.

No, I hate that you were bracing for impact.

It was more like, I have to have a response that doesn't make me look like an asshole. I've got to somehow find the humor in whatever mean thing she says about me.

Gracious loser face they call it. Yeah, graciously.

So I'm almost practicing. Oh, God. Suffice to say, the whole monolog, every time it was about me, I was like, Oh, okay. So nothing happened. Then reality hits you and you're like, Of course, nothing happened. There's so many bigger people in this room to make a joke about why on earth would she even make one about me?

That's not why I didn't.

Okay. All to say, you do do stern the following day, and then I start seeing in the comments of our episode that day, Did you hear Nikki's joke about you? And I wrote to several people, no, and I hope to never hear it. But you must know what I then crafted in my head that your joke was, they were so fucking mean. They hurt so bad because they were my deepest insecurities. And three days goes by and Kristin finally went and listened and she came in. She goes, the joke's nothing. You were going to ask everyone to be on your podcast. And I was like, oh, my God, where my mind was at.

This is the worst part of my job is that I make people feel this way.

I want to hear about that.

Yes, none of that is to make you feel bad at all.

No, I'm not taking it like that. Okay, good.

This is all the racket in my head. Sure. When I'm about to do Stern, I'm also preparing for things he's not going to say to me because no one is as mean to me as me.

No one. Sometimes. Okay, the internet exists. I will say that sometimes I've done a roast and they'll find something about me that I'm like, I thought it was just a me thing. I say to my friends and they go, No else sees that about you, and then someone else has seen it. Sometimes it can hurt a lot. But generally, I've bullied myself more than anyone possibly could. But that joke, the reason I didn't do it, the joke was everyone from TV and movies come together for one common goal to get out of here without Dax Shepard asking them to do their podcast.

It's a great joke.

Okay. First of all, it doesn't work because everyone does want to do your podcast. I was testing it out around town. Because you're not known as a podcast that's like, I got to go do this. It's funny because your name is great. It adds a good joke texture. Sure. It sounds like a vape company.

It's got a good mouth feel. What do you say?

Sounds like a vape company.

It sounds like a brand of vape. We were really trying to rack our brains of who's a celebrity in that room who people are trying to avoid a conversation with. I don't even think we landed on it.

When I heard that was the joke, it didn't bother me at all because it's a shortcoming of mine that I won't invite anyone on, right? Because I'm so afraid they think I'm opportunistic. Then secondly, several people there had come up to me very nicely and said, I just want you to know that was one of my favorite interviews. My self-esteem in that category story was so filled that it didn't bother me at all. But when it was going to be that I was too ugly to be with her and I'm riding her coattails and all these fears I have that people think about me, I'm preparing for that. In my defense, there were many many buzz feedy type things of top 10 ugly guys with hot girls, and I made those for years.

Why is that okay?

So I just went to, Well, that's probably what's coming my way. You don't want me to apologize because you didn't do the things I was crafting.

No, I'm just sorry that you got to deal with that There's nothing worse than feeling ugly, and I feel ugly a lot, too. For me to hear you say you feel ugly is probably the way that people feel when I say it, because I know I'm not a total dog.

Neither of us are monsters.

But we can't help that we feel that way, because to me, I'm like, How could he feel ugly? But I don't get to tell you you don't get to feel ugly because that's your own feeling. I wouldn't make an ugly joke about someone that was actually ugly, I feel like is the thing. But you don't realize that people who aren't ugly feel ugly. When you make the joke that you go, I only said you were fat because you're not, or whatever it is. But everyone feels these things that anyone else would say, No way you are.

Well, the two things I hope that got to you were, A, I thought you did a brilliant job. You did such a good job, and your jokes were so fucking good.

Even though you were probably blacked out during the whole thing, just waiting.

It was like waves of relief.

I know that feeling of they're going to say something about me and just waiting. You can't even hear. You're just like, Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

I'm even self-conscious that when they go for her category, I'm like, This is such a rough look for me to just be half in or out of the frame. I'm like, Should I bail out or should I commit fully we're here together? I don't belong there. All these thoughts.

Feeling like you don't belong there when you're a plus one. If it's your wife.

I can't accomplish enough to not feel that way.

100%. I was at the Grammys last night and I felt that way.

I wanted to ask.

You had a whole bit there, though. You got to rip off Benson Boon's clothes. That was great.

But I almost wondered if you're relieved of it there. I feel like I could go to the Grammys and be fine. I don't belong there. It's the I almost belong there or do I don't?

I could belong here, but I wasn't really invited.

Sometimes I did here, but I don't think anymore.

I was hosting the Golden Globes and was like, I'm a frog. I don't belong here. I'm embarrassed. These people even have to listen to me. These are all A-listers. Ralph Fines has to know my name. Now my name is taking space up in Ralph Fines' brain. You've got to They had to sit there and listen to me for nine minutes. When you start thinking about things like that, you're like, who am I to beg for these people's attention? Even backstage, after I perform, I never really want to see the crowd because I feel like they will feel like they have to say good job if they don't to. Then if they don't say good job, I'm like, what the fuck?

You actually get great at delineating the difference between an obligatory good job and the real one. Oh, yeah. Now your standard of what a real one becomes preposterous. Yes.

There's almost nothing good enough that anyone can say.

I want to send you at some point. Someone sent me. It's great. It's from Garrison Keeler, and he talks about his faux humility, what a ruse it is. Because not only does he want people to talk about him and think about him, but he actually wants them to kneel and pray to him as a son God, that That's really what his ego desires. You just need to be a son God or not even play the game.

Or nothing. I'm not even a son God or bust. Please send that to me because it's so nice when you find that other people feel these exact same things that you feel so ridiculous feeling. I was backstage The next presenter would be backstage as well. Nicolas Cage or Harrison Ford, and I would stand at the bottom. They're like, You need to go up the steps. You're introducing them. I go, I just want to stay down here because I don't want them to have to go, Oh, yeah, good job. They can't say nothing. They're going to feel obligated to say something Even when I'm on stage, I won't look people in the eye because I feel like when you do, they have to go, Ha ha ha ha. I don't want to coerce someone into saying good job. I want them to have to go out of their way or because they want to.

I'm doing all those tabulations, too. How exhausting.

So I, of course, got so many text, and it was like, Did you see Stern? I was like, Whoa, God. I really hope he didn't see it. Also, Dax is obsessed with Stern. Stern is his idol.

Okay, I didn't realize that. I, too, went to watch and I was like, Oh, this was fine.

But then I was annoyed because I was like, he actually doesn't do this, and now he's going to do it even less, and I need him to do it. Exactly. And I DMed her and I was like, Hey, we really want to have you on. Also, Dax isn't the one asking people. It's me. Yes.

That's why the joke didn't work. I got the sense that that's not how you operate at all. And why don't you operate that way? This is one of the biggest things you can be on. Do you not realize that, or do you just still feel despite it, they still don't want to?

It's my foundation. Single mother, three kids. Everyone needs something. She doesn't have enough time. The way you showed people you love them is to never, ever, ever be a drain on them in any way whatsoever. The way you would show love is to be completely self-sufficient and never need anything from you. This is a big issue in my marriage, which is she likes acts of service. And I'm like, me wanting you to do something for me to me reads as like, I don't even love you or value you. So I don't want to be a pain in the ass to anybody. To a fault. Me needing things from you in favors, there's no way like me.

Everyone needs people, you guys. Everyone needs favors.

Or do they? And people like being asked. They do. I like being asked.

I do, too. Why do we think people are different than us? Listen, I don't want to pretend that I've made no movement on this. I have. It started in a personal capacity where I'm really spinning out about something. I'm just now learning to reach out to someone who's been through this and say, Hey, I'm going through this. What was your experience?

People love that. Yes. I love it, too.

Everyone wants to be the God that people are asking advice to.

Yes, they really do. Well, last night, I was at the Grammys. I feel like I don't belong there. I don't want people even noticing me to go like, Why is she here? Even though I was nominated for a Grammie. I didn't win. I was so mad I didn't win only because I wanted to bring my Grammie to hold it, to be like, I belong. I just wanted to have a reason to be there. So I was being very small. And then people were coming up to me, people I'm fans of. And my boyfriend had to talk with me after we were just doing a debrief afterwards. He was like, I think you have to remember that you need to go up to people next time. You going up to someone will be the the same gift as Olivia Rodrigo coming up to you because that was the biggest gift of my life was someone I admire so much coming up to me to say she was a fan. He was like, But you could go give that to people. I was like, I don't think of anyone thinking that they would want that from me.

Did you talk to Taylor? I didn't. Everyone wants a piece. I will never be the one to be like, Excuse me ever. It's almost rude what I do when I'm in the same room as Taylor Swift because I won't even look her way.

She's tapping you on the shoulder.

It will take that because I just will never... And everyone goes, Go up and say something to There's no way that she's dying for that in a night like this where everyone's doing it. Of course, she would be so nice. I know exactly how it would go down, but I don't want to take someone's energy away that I require their energy to be put into making great music. I don't want her to make a less great song because she had to be like, Oh, nice to meet you. Oh, and hold me as I'm crying. Give you the full swifty treatment. Something tells me I can't bother her. She has room for both. I generally, after award shows, get pretty depressed no matter what happens because I'm around all these famous people that I put on a pedestal, and I see the façade of it all and the desperation, and they're all wearing uncomfortable clothes and have the fake hair in. I'm like, We're all clamoring to be noticed and a little bit disappointed when we're not. It makes me a little bit sad because I'm like, no matter how big you get, you worry about who's in the room who's looking at you where you're seated.

I go through a depression afterwards.

It's seeing the magic trick a bit. You realize, Oh, there isn't any Pixie dust.

There is Pixie dust. There's magical moments where you're like, Wow, that person's so talented. They're so amazing. Just even watching Chapel Roon last night, Sabrina Carpenter, Ray, who I had never heard of, but watching her was just transcendent.

Definitely musicians when they're doing their thing. If you were watching the people in the room act, perhaps. But you're just seeing them not lit and not in a riveting drama. They're just people The reason I brought up the thing is because I wanted to do a full circle.

This is important to say because I was a little annoyed and I was upset on your behalf and upset on my behalf because I was like, Oh, this is going to be a problem for me. So Kristin is hosting the SAG Awards.

Oh, my God, really? Yes.

And she hosted them in 2018, and that's when I was her producing partner and creative partner. And so I wrote her monolog, and I did all that stuff for her then. And so she asked me to do that this time. So I went back to look at that original monolog. I kid you not, there is a joke that is about Marc Maron- That Monica wrote.

That I wrote.

We didn't have our show yet. That is literally the exact same joke. No way. Same joke. I loved that show. My jaw dropped. I had no memory of writing that joke. Also, I was like, this joke is fine, so that joke has to be fine, too.

That makes me feel so good.

It doesn't mean anything. And by the way, he killed his close-up. Kristenristen showed it to me. She's like, I mean, look at this. We did the same thing.

It's so funny. That makes me so happy.

I was like, I wrote this exact same joke.

It's so nice to hear that because I think that happens all the time where people get mad about something and you've just done it before, and no one will ever admit that they've done it before. But even when I get mad, everyone's such a hypocrite. Not that you were... No, I was.

But unintentional.

I hope that got to you in our debrief as well, which is as I was listening to the monolog, panicked that I was going to get made fun of.

I was doing a personal inventory, and I was going, You have done this many times. I have been on Konan making fun of the cast of the Expendables because I had a movie coming out against them, and they're easy targets, and I can do all their accents. Maybe Sly was at home bombed. I It's hard for me to imagine that, but maybe because, again, in that situation, I'm insignificant, and I'm almost speaking in a vacuum. These people won't really hear me. I was on Punk, where we put celebrities in very rough situations, and hopefully, they acted poorly. At no point did I act like I was above that. What I more was starting to feel was a compassion for both of us.

That's really nice.

I want to get invited to the party, and the way I got invited to the party, I was like, Yeah, you can come to the party if you should have these people on I was like, Okay, I'll do it.

Then you get to the party and the people you shit on are there.

For years, I'm bumping in a timber like, and he hates my guts. I'm like, Don't you understand, buddy? I was like dead broke, and that was my only chance.

Oh, my God. So he places you from that.

We've had him on and we talked it all through. But yeah, I would see him for years, and it's like, Yeah, that guy doesn't like me in for a good reason.

You forget these people have feelings. At Rose, I feel like everything's on the table because they've signed up for it.

We should make a distinction because I heard you talking about it this morning, and it's great. You're like, Tom braided is getting $25 million. He he has consented. Yes. Everyone that said yes to the dias, am I saying it right? The dias?

The dias, yeah. Everyone who says yes to Cameron dias. Yeah, you said it right. It's dias. I'm sorry, I'm just saying it wrong. I go, Is it the dias?

And you go, Yes, that's right, dias.

I just I'm going to give you what you want.

Right back at you.

Ultimately, that's going to track throughout this episode. We have the same approach.

There is consent. I have been invited to so many of those roasts, and I'm like, I just don't have thick enough skin.

I'll just tell you, I can't handle it. Thank God I don't even think about what's going to be said about me when I say yes to the roast. I put it out of my head. I did the Tom braided one because it was like, Tom braided, I got to do it. But the next roast that they threw at me, I was going to say no to because I was like, I'm too old now. When I was 35 getting called old, it didn't hurt. Yeah. I don't feel it. Not really. But at 40, I feel it and I'm starting to see it. I don't want anyone pointing out something about my face that I have to then go talk to someone about in an office and have them draw on me and stare into my eyes and fix it, which I've done and I continue to I just don't want people to pay too close of attention. But then the Tom braided roast, you go, Oh, good. I'm not the most famous person here, so there won't be that many jokes about me. And that's how it ended up. But the next one, I feel like I'm a little bit more famous.

Bigger target. Yeah, bigger target next time. It's going to have to be someone really good for me to do it again. It hurts a lot.

I'm one of the only people who didn't watch the Tom braided roast because I can't even enjoy watching it. I just think of myself hearing that. I'm very sensitive.

I don't read any comments about myself. I've been sober from comments, which I think should be a thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think general public has too many trolls in their comments. But if you're a celebrity- You probably know your troll.

If you're a civilian, you probably work with that person.

You should have blocked your boyfriend's ex-girlfriend ages ago. That's just a simple block. But I can post things now and not go back. How many likes does it have? Because I just go, it's none of your business anymore and you don't get to read anything because I can't handle it. It will destroy me.

You almost need to be insecure to be funny in this way. The jock at my school never had a good burn on anybody. You don't need it. And the prom queen didn't... Not only did he not need it, he honestly couldn't empathize enough. He couldn't see other insecurities because he didn't have any. You have to have them to be able to spot them in other people.

Yes, that's so it. When I write Rose, I'm like, What would I want not said about me, and how do I say that about someone else? How do I find the thing about this person that they look in the mirror and hate about themselves? It's a horrible way to think, but I'm able to go there because I go there for myself.

Yes, and you can smell it, and your brain is really well-tuned to it because you're constantly evaluating yourself. Even we had Vince Vawn on, he was saying at a certain age, he realized he had to stop burning people because it was the burns that would ruin them for two years. It's like, well, yeah, you know he just could see it because he had them.

I don't burn people unless I'm tired to do it. Even the Golden Globes wasn't a burn fest because those people weren't signing up for a roast. It was very gentle. I think the worst thing I said was to Benny Blancos, but I got his permission. I wrote to Eric Andre, who I heard knows him, and he put us on a text chat together. I sent him a voice of the joke, and he said, I'm cool with it. Let me run it by Selena. And so I got permission. But I would never have done that joke. I said, Selena Gomez is here with Benny Blanco, her new fiance, and Benny Blanco is here because of the genie who granted him that wish. That was the mean one.

That was probably the only one.

I love that you got permission. I thought you did a great job. I did not know that.

I would have done that on a roast if he was on the dais. He's just sitting there. He can't heckle me back. He knows the rules. Kimmel actually gave me advice saying, Hey, reach out to people if you have a joke that you're a little bit worried about, because I just wouldn't have done it otherwise. There's no way I would have risked making him feel uncomfortable. Even when I told him the joke, you feel like, Oh. But I presented like, By the way, I think you're awesome. I think you're hot. I'm talking about a thing that I think you are aware of that I think you've even partaken in. I've heard him in podcast talk about him with Selena. I think Santino went hard on him once. I think he was already aware. I was a little bit nervous to even tell him it. But if I would have not liked him and really felt that way, I don't think I would have been able to say it. I think she scored with him, to be honest with you. I felt like it was a mutual thing. It came from a good place. But people show up in my shows wanting to be roasted.

I don't really like roasting people. On the fly, it doesn't just come out of me. I don't just come at people without a reason to do it. But I think that's not just because I don't want to hurt them. That's obviously part of it. But I just don't want them to retaliate. I was quiet in high school.

If you don't want to get stabbed, don't start a knife fight. Well, you were picking Nikki in sixth grade. Thank you. Nikki was picking her nose in sixth grade.

Yeah, and I got busted. A girl saw me and was like, Why don't you stop picking your nose? You know where you could tell it was bothering her? She's like,. She snapped. She screams it. And so there were a lot of moments like that in school where I would be quietly doing something disgusting, and then it would just annoy someone enough. I was taking pencils from this kid. I never had my school supplies, not because my parents didn't provide it, but because I was just ADD. So I was always borrowing pencils and paper from my friend Ray. He would always give it to me every single day. He never did it. And it was almost like I was annoying him. So one day I just took it. And I remember he saw me because I was like, You're going to give it to me. And he was like, Why don't you get your own pencil, you bucktooth beaver? Go in the woods and gnaud out a tree.

Oh, my God.

And I had really messed up. My teeth were going out hard. The whole class heard. Even my teacher laughed.

Oh, no, your teacher, she validated how good- That's cool.

I was like, But I still need lead. I found some inaccuracy in the joke. I was like, It's a false premise because pencils are more than just wood. Anyway, and then I just learned, just be invisible because people will call out why you're ugly. I was quiet. This was fifth grade and seventh grade. Then by the time I got to high school, I was I just didn't want the boys making a joke about me.

What were your other things?

It was teeth that continues. I still see weird things with them.

You have perfect teeth. Are they veneers, man?

No, but I do a thing. Please, everyone listening, don't get veneers. My friends who have done it, regret it. If there is an Apocalypse or something, your teeth will fall out and you will have nubs and you will have no one to fix them. The nubs are disturbing. They fall out. A lot of people are doing it and getting approved to do it way too soon. They're not trained properly. It's painful. Do you know Monica was on the verge of getting them?

And that was our biggest This battle. I'm so glad you had it. Monica, your teeth are fucking perfect.

I'm so glad you did it. Dude, Monica, if you want to fix anything with your teeth, the thing to do is you get what's it called composite. Bonding? Bonding. Because I had a chip on this tooth and I was like, Can you just fix that? They filled it in with a tooth-colored thing and I was like, Well, this tooth is too far I'm like, Can you just put tooth on top of it? He's like, Yeah. I was like, Did I just make something up? Because I was going to have that tooth removed and a new one in, but I just put tooth on top of it to make it even with the front one.

I wonder they could build out this leaner. Build it up.

Just put composite on. It falls off every month or so, but you get it put back. It's like an $80 copay. It's way cheaper than veneers. Every month.

This is less painful. I have had bonding, but it falls out.

My dentist is currently trying to talk me into doing some fix-ups on the bottom here. Then he put the temporary one on there and he showed me the mirror. I was like, Oh, wow, it does look a little up.

I don't care about the bottom. So teeth, an issue for sure. Having a tall forehead. One time, a guy that liked me and I didn't like him back was just like, I just noticed your forehead goes on for a really long time. That stuck with me. Then I started seeing it, didn't notice it before. Also, hair falling out. I was anorexic when I was 18, so a lot of it fell out then. And then since then, if a hair just gets caught on something and pulls out in a clip, I feel it all day long. It's an OCD thing where I feel the little spot, and I look at the hair and I'm like, You weren't ready. I go like, This hair has been with me through so much. This was when I did the roast, all my career moments. And I just go like, I can't believe it's just gone now. It's going to take so long to grow that all back. Everyone who does my hair knows. If I go, They just stop. I've gotten better about it because it's an irrational fear. And I often have my friends send me like, How much hair do you pull out in the shower?

Were you just send me a picture? I need verification. Because it only pops up, by the way, when I'm stressed out. It has nothing to do with the hair.

You're looking at a haircut that is two days old that I gave to myself. What? Really? Yeah, I cut my own hair, but it generally starts in periods of anxiety, which I've been having. So I started trimming, trimming, trimming. You saw the progression. Anyone watching would see the progression. It's a total tick. Until finally Sunday, I'm like, Now we're shaving the sides.

Will you do my boyfriend's? That's a really good cut. I love that cut. I was literally...

I was literally...

I was literally giving me a haircut. I should have said it. Damn it. I was literally going to take a picture of you later to show it because it's good.

I'll send you a picture of my hair wall. I do a hair wall.

If you were my friend, I would never ask to see your hair wall because I can't compare it because you're allowed to lose bunches and bunches of hair.

I lose so much hair.

Not to take anything from you. You can feel bad about losing hair, too, but you don't deserve to. No. I won't hear from you about it.

It's going to be hard to feel bad.

I won't be sending you my hair wall.

That's a bitch to blow dry, right?

The only time I ever blow dry it is if I'm getting it done.

You don't have to because it air dries glossy. So much volume.

That's so good.

Anyone that's been hired by Herbal Essence to be a mermaid in a commercial for your hair? Yes. That's the stamp of approval.

I didn't mean to turn this into compliments.

No, you know what? You're allowed to have something that is just fucking perfect.

It's the only... Okay, speaking of insecurities, it is the only thing I am secure about.

We're all allowed to have one.

One?

Yes.

Okay.

I know you want me to say I love my I had noticed yet, but I was like, I think I can make up three things.

My wife has given her many pieces of artwork that say, I have perfect tits and great opinions. When people are buying you those kinds of paintings, I think you could have two.

She also wants to say, Monica doesn't get naked very much, but one time I was with her and she was changing and she took her bra off and her boobs went up.

Oh, my God. Chris is so funny. She is. Great tits over there, but you're not proud of those?

I'm proud of them when I'm naked. But I don't love it in clothes.

Got it. I'll agree with you. When I have a bra that makes me look more stacked, I feel a little bit chunkier.

Exactly. It distorts your body.

It does. Okay, I hear that. And then just body. This week, it's my leg skin. I saw some pictures from my tour that were backstage. There's a crepiness starting.

What is crepey?

Like an old circus tent that's been weathered. It's okay. It has to happen. People can't lie to me and say it's not. My girls chat is like, It's not. I don't see it. And I go, Look. And I give evidence.

We would Can you say in the automotive world, if the paint is orange peely, is that what we're talking about?

Picture like a wasps nest. Yeah. You know that's like a saggy texture.

Droopy paper machete. Yes.

That crepiness skin on the thigh and then the skin above the knees is starting to fold over and there's a deep line here that bothered me. Do they do knee tucks? I heard they do. But then I'm looking at my schedule, I go, When am I getting a brow lift? When am I getting my knees done? My knees done? I'm never going to get my knees done.

I hope we get submissions from me. When do I have time for this? Knee surgeons. Please. The reason you were able to host the Golden Gloves was you had cleared your schedule in January for a month to do some operative- To do whatever Dr..

Diamond told me would make me look like I hadn't done anything.

Yeah, so you had already scheduled this little buffer in January and then got the call. I feel like that's very serendipitous.

It really was. I would have canceled anything for it, but it was nice that I didn't have to because I never take a break. My vacation would have been just healing with straws in my face, dreaming of the past.

Have you seen the pictures of those flights home from Turkey? I want to fly there just to fly back with all those guys. For anyone who's not seen it, please Google this.

The flight there would be interesting, too.

Yeah, 90 some % of the passengers on these flights home from Turkey, the men are all bandaged up. They've gotten hair transplants. I guess it's affordable there.

Now they're all starting chin surgery, too, now. I just read- Implants? Yeah, chin implants. In Turkey? I don't know if they do it in Turkey, but that's the new male plastic surgery thing. Everyone's going to be doing it. If you've seen leading men starting to look a little bit more leading, that's probably what's happening because it's a subtle adjustment that makes your face look more masculine, and that's what it's trending towards. There are nine-year-olds who are mewing now to get that jaw line. It's sad when men start to have the same insecurities that we've all dealt with as women for so long, but they've always been there.

We've always had them, but they're just evolving. For us, it was all like body and strength and Schwarzenegger and lifting weights and trying to be big and strong. I'm still dealing with it, obviously.

And you guys don't get makeup. You just have to be what you are. So it makes sense why we're like, why would they just get to be who they are? Because they don't really have a lot of options, so they might as well accept themselves.

That's a great take.

I just came up with it.

That's really good. I did. Yeah. When you're a dude and you look in the mirror, you go, that's that.

End of story. Yeah, we have too many options.

I was even watching this, and I'm like, God, my nose has gotten so bulbous. I think most women would shade, and it would not look bulbous. And I'm like, I'm not going to do that.

You can't. There would be options. If you have a zit, you can't cover it. You just have to have a gaping wound, and we get to stuff it with dirt clay and wonder why it keeps reinfecting and coming back.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. I'm Raza Jeffrey, and in the latest season of The Spy Who, we open the file on Vitold Pilecki, the spy who infiltrated Auschwitz. Resistance fighter, Vitold Pilecki, has heard dark rumors about an internment camp on his home soil of Poland. Hoping to expose its cruelty to the world, he leaves his family behind and deliberately gets himself imprisoned. The camp is called Auschwitz, a hellish place where the unimaginable becomes routine. Poletsky is determined he needs to organize the prisoners, build a resistance, and get the truth out. Except when the world hears about the horrors of the camp, nobody comes to the rescue. In the end, it's just him alone. With only one decision to make, accept death or escape. Follow the Spy Who on the WNDY app or wherever you listen to podcasts, or you can binge the full season of The Spy Who Infiltrated Auschwitz, early and free with WNDY Plus.

Imagine this. You help your little brother land a great job abroad, but when he arrives, the job doesn't exist. Instead Instead, he's trapped in a heavily guarded compound, forced to sit at a computer and scam innocent victims, all while armed guards stand by with shoot to kill orders. Scam Factory, the explosive new true crime podcasts from WNDRI, exposes a multibillion dollar criminal empire operating in plain sight. Told through one family's harrowing account of sleepless nights, desperate phone calls, and dangerous dangerous rescue attempts. Scam Factory reveals a brutal truth. The only way out is to scam their way out. Follow Scam Factory on the WNDYRI app or wherever you get your podcast. You can binge all episodes of Scam Factory early and ad-free right now by joining WNDRI Plus.

What's up, everybody? It's Jason Kelsi, and I'm here with my slightly famous little brother Travis, a. K. A. Big Yeti Kelsi. Ladies and Gentlemen, boys and girls, we're here to bring you a next-level entertainment experience with our show, New Heights, where the lumb baby reigns supreme. We're covering all the hardest-hitting topics in order of importance: UFO sightings, the ideal PB&J combo, and Trab becoming a big-time acting star. Big time is a big stretch. We've got can't miss A-list interviews, though. That's right. And of course, next-level access to life inside the NFL and in the booth. Just because I retire doesn't It doesn't mean I'm out of the game. Yeah, I mean, the old dad shoes suggest otherwise, but those are the I'm out the game shoes right there. Listen and watch New Heights wherever you get your podcast. And if you want to listen to us first without any interruptions and get bonus content, Following WNDYRI+ in the WNDYR app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. That sucks for men with acne that they don't have makeup.

It's true. Even though we look like it's like a little Anth Hill. Yeah, you can still see it. But it's preferable. I used to pick up my skin because when I was malnourished and had anxiety, it was just open sores around my face. I used to be bulimic, too. That's why I quit throwing up. Thank God it was a vanity thing because I was sick of cleaning toilets, and I was also sick of having mouth acne that I would pick at. I would be nervous backstage before going on, pick at it. I could feel it bleeding because I'd do the check, and I'm like, Oh, my God, there's blood. I'm walking with blood. Then I'd put something on it to cake it up, and I'm like, Okay, I hope it Then you walk out and you're like, Good evening, Milwaukee. You smile in a way, it's like crack, and it just starts running down your face. It would happen so often. Thank God, acne is behind me in my life. That was a huge struggle for a really long time. Seeing my sister never have to deal with-How much younger is she? She's 18 months younger, but perfect silky, thick hair, never had to get braces, born with straight teeth, veneer teeth, never had acne.

Yeah, but does she have a good personality? She does.

She doesn't even know she's hot. She could have been a model, actress, all these and she's just like, yeah, she's pretty amazing. I don't know if she's content. That's good. She's like a mom of three just making it work. She's a teacher. She was a teacher. She actually stopped teaching, and now she's having. Okay. That was rough.

That's a lot of stress.

She taught for 10 years Spanish in our old high school. She was great at it, but it was just too hard. She has insecurities just like everyone else, but I had a rough time growing up with that. Was she outgoing? She was much more popular than I was. The boys in my grade liked her and had crushes on her. She'd be the type of girl that I'd have all my girlfriends over and my sister would come in and talk to us, and then my sister would leave and they'd all go, Oh, she's so pretty. A reaction that I would never get. Just that thing of like, Wow, that's what I want. Just strangers telling my mom that this child should model, and then I'm just standing there. Rude things. And I was just sensitive. So I picked up on it like, That's your value, and I don't have it. Just really resenting that I was born not as pretty as I could have been. My parents DNA made that. Why did it fuck up this way? I used to yell at my mom and be like, You knew there was ugly in your family's face, and you risked it with me.

And she I'm like, You, shut up. She would be so mad at me. But I used to get really venomous about how mad I was. And people saying, You look nothing like your sister. Thank God. That over and over. Always getting told I look like my dad, which no matter how hot your dad is, you don't want to hear it. You never want to hear you look like your dad. I see it now and I'm like, Okay, I'll take it because he's a gangly guy. And you saying your hair is the thing. My legs I used to be really insecure about because they're more muscular and my sisters were just model thin. But now I love my legs. I get a lot of compliments on it and people are like, What do you do for them? I'm like, It's just my dad's legs. I just got lucky. It made me realize that so much of what I resent women for having is just the same as my legs. I didn't do anything for them. I just was born with this and I just got lucky in this one. I have a dad bod for half of my body.

It gave me some perspective of when I attribute perfection onto people. I shouldn't hate that girl for being hot. She didn't mean to be. She didn't choose it. It's not your fault.

None of us chose any of it. Just got it. No one went to the store and picked it out.

That's what I like to remember when I'm feeling ugly is like, Nicki, okay, so there's a lot of action going on when you wiggle your arm. The other day, I looked at my arm in the mirror, I just saw it straight on, and it looked like a scrotum hanging, a ball sac. And my friends were like, No, it doesn't. And I sent them a picture, and they were all quiet afterwards. They couldn't say no. It does. And that's okay. But I was like, If I could snap my fingers and not have that, I would. Clearly, I'm not choosing this. It's not my fault. Why do I have to feel like I failed in some way or I'm a bad person? I didn't choose this. I wouldn't want this. Yes, there's probably exercises I could do to make it go away, but I don't have time for them. That doesn't make me a bad person. I get wrapped up in all the things I should be doing. You could afford a facelift. Why aren't you getting one? You could afford this laser treatment. Why aren't you doing it? Even the more money you make and the more opportunities you have to have avenues to look hotter, you don't do them.

You feel like you're failing in some way. And I hate that feeling.

It's wholly unfair, which is I think I had all the same feelings you did growing up. But I had the freedom as a dude to go, Yeah, that's not going to be your thing. And girls, thank God, did date guys largely because of how confident they presented and how funny they were. That is the great injustice. I was able to transcend it in some way. Not that I ever fell in love with how I looked. I just was like, Oh, we're not going to think about this anymore. And we're going to just do this other thing, and that's going to work.

Yes.

That's a gift of being a dude. I appreciate you saying that.

Decreasingly so, I think. Yeah, decreasingly so.

Yes. Thank God it's evolving. But in the '80s, I could make that proclamation.

Well, because the men and boys did the choosing back then That's why I think it's changing, because now girls, women, all of us ladies, we are more educated. You're making more money. We can be more things than sex objects. Exactly. I don't have to just say yes to your proposal. It used to just be like, Oh, this guy is asking me out, I guess I have to say yes. You're waiting to be asked.

Yeah, that's a really good point.

There's a ton of stuff going on. There's evolutionary stuff. There's how the society has run for the previous 300 years. A guy that was confident and had a good personality was going to probably achieve high status because he would be able to do that through work. He was super smart. So he would be able to climb the status run. Whereas for women, the status run wasn't fully available for anything other than being gorgeous.

Who could make the most babies for the village? Who could watch the pot boil, who could take care of the kids? It all leads itself to, do they have the hip to waist ratio that suggests they can carry more children? You want to get mad and think it's so vapid for men to assess us that way. And yeah, I appreciate you saying it's because I was a man and I was able to shift like that. I never arrived. I was like, I just have to keep pursuing being hot or talented in some way, which I wasn't talented. That was the other thing I didn't find because I wasn't able to get big and loud and funny because I didn't want people to go, Well, you're also ugly. That wasn't an option to be big. So I just waited till I found a talent, and I didn't have one until I started stand-up comedy. I literally tried everything, and that was really frustrating.

Do you think you were just biochemically anxious? What led to, do you think the annex? It sounds like pretty good parents.

I have the greatest parents imaginable. I think it's I had a mom that just never liked the way she looked and was never pretty, never thin enough. But I was really tuned in with celebrity culture, so all that stuff got in. I wanted to be famous, so it's like, I need to look like Paris Hilton, Jennifer Anaston.

Yeah, I want to go there and you have to look a certain way to go there.

Yeah, there's no option not to.

But is it because you wanted to be famous so that if you were, that's the world telling you you are hot?

Not even hot. I'm very uncomfortable when someone's lusting for me. I want the approval that comes with it outside of someone actually putting anything in me. Yeah, attractive. I just want people to be like, I want to be her. I guess that's what I wanted. Oh, that's so embarrassing to admit. No, we all... No. I used to want that. My parents, we love watching TV. I wanted to be on TV. I wanted to be seen by them in that way and be like, Wow, that's extraordinary. I'm an Enneagram 3, so my worth is determined by if I am extraordinary. I do things that people go, Holy shit, how could she do that? I was always looking for that in terms of looks. I felt like that was the only way to achieve that. I was a fine actress, but just didn't get cast in things in high school and was like, That's the The only way to be on TV is to act. And so, audition for theater school didn't get into any and was like, What am I going to fucking do? I've said this before. I was like, I'm just going to have to kill myself someday because that is a failed life.

If my only dream in life is to be on TV and be a personality, a performer, and I don't do it, and I just have to watch people do it forever. I'll eventually have to kill myself, and that sucks. I have to do that someday. It was like a thing I have to do someday. It's not now, but soon.

Is Bolder, you did it when you were 18 for the first time. Yeah. Freshment of your College. You only have Voltaire for a year?

Yeah, a year. The first thing I was really good at was not eating. That was the first thing, and I was like, whoa. Talk about getting confidence from something because this just came to me a couple of months ago when I was trying to think about what led me to do that and why did I stick with it and why did I get such a rush from it? Because when you're coming up in diet culture in the '90s and early 2000s, being able to not eat is maybe the best superpower imaginable for a woman. Every person around me is trying not to eat the brownie, not having dressing on the salad, and I have no problem doing that. I get high from it. I struggled with my weight earlier on and was trying diets. I was never fat, but needed to draw probably 10 or 15 pounds. I worked at a pizzeria and just ate too much and stopped playing field hockey and stuff. So I got a little bigger and people were starting to notice. So I tried stuff to lose weight. It was hard. I remember being like, I wish I could get anorexia.

The same joke that most women make. Then it happened because I got nervous about a boy who liked me. I had been really scared of boys and sex, and I hadn't kissed a boy. It was my senior year of high school. I think I'd kiss one boy, and it was a truth or dare thing, so it didn't count. It was a guy I really liked for so long, I won a date with him because I rigged a singled-out type contest at our school where I had my friends tell me who to pick because I wanted to pick this guy, Mike. I had them do a signal to me of who to eliminate. I got a date with him, and then he seemed to want to go on this date that I won for this charity school thing. We had a date planned, and I was so nervous about it. I just couldn't eat that day. That shows up quickly on me in my face. Someone said something the next day that was like, You look great. It was a girl whose opinion about me meant so much. I I was still nervous, and so I just kept going as long as I could.

And then it was just, let's just never eat again. I was just too young to understand this isn't going to work forever.

This is the fun overlap with Moni. Moni had this very specific event in her life.

Oh, Yeah, Derry Queen. I was in sixth grade, and a boy said he couldn't date me. He liked me, it seemed, but he couldn't date me because my parents worked at Dairy Queen. They didn't work at Dairy Queen, but a lot of Indian people worked at Dairy Queen, so he couldn't date me because I was Indian. Then that was obviously the moment where I was like, Oh, so no one can date me. That's a fundamental thing about me.

That's a no for people. He represents everyone. Everyone. Because why wouldn't he? You're in sixth grade. Because you liked him. I liked him.

Yes. It was like, The people I like don't like this about me. This is going to be a fun life.

His parents worked at Culver's. Was it a Capulets Montagu's thing?

They were at a Foster's. It was a competition.

Yes, it was like a white castle.

Did you didn't say, But they don't. Did you protest it at first or did you know what it meant?

He didn't say it to my face. He said it to a friend. A friend was like, Why don't you ask Monica out? Oh, this is important. He said, I would, but... So it's not like, I just don't like her. It's like, I would, but I can't because she's Indian, basically. And not because she's Indian, I don't like the culture. That would make me feel different, probably. That's the subtext. Oh my God. If I'm being generous, I guess.

If I'm being generous, is that staying with you to this day? I am fucked up for life from that one thing.

Her thing, to paraphrase it, was any boy she would like wouldn't like her because she was Indian. So she shifted to being in love with people. She knew that issue would never present itself. So it was Matt Damon and Ben Affleck.

Oh, you never have a chance with them. Yeah. Exactly.

It's like they're so unavailable. So they can't reject me. Yes. I'm picking the quarterback of the football team when I'm a sophomore. We never even have an interaction.

Just unavailable men. You You can never get rejected by them. Yeah. Does this go on for you now?

Now, really, I'm just like, if it falls into my lap, that's great. I do so little pursuing of dating. But still, it's because rejection is still so horrific for me.

It's not worth it. I understand being that guarded because it can destroy you for decades.

Without it, I'm good. I'm thriving. Am I? I don't know.

Yeah. Obviously, people have asked you out through this. When you're pursued, do you feel like they're flawed in some way for liking you? A hundred %. It's good. They have bad taste. Yes. I get it.

Totally. I need someone with good taste. So we're in a bad cycle here.

Oh my God, you're so wrong. You are such a prize. My boyfriend, I've been with him for 13 years off and on, and I'm not even joking you, it was just this past May that I accepted that he has great taste and he likes me, and I have to trust that. Yeah. And he chose me. I didn't trick him in any way, and that I am really spectacular. It only was this last May. And that's why I liked him for so long, too, was because I thought I was winning him over. He was better than me. So it takes forever. But I think just one day you'll get it. I have no doubt. What happened in May? We were breaking up, but it was funny because I was doing it in public so it wouldn't get too heated. I just didn't want it to end in us yelling. Not that we're yelling people, but I felt like it could go that way. And I just didn't want it to go on too long But then the restaurant closed, and so we didn't have time to break up. We were supposed to go to a concert right after this.

We still go to the concert because we're in this nebulous stage of it seems like it's ending. But at the dinner when we're breaking up, I go, I'm bored. He was like, Okay, but you're one of the most boring people I've from math. This was the week right after the roast, by the way, when I was one of the most googled people on the Earth. It was funny to me that he said that because I'm like, That's not my insecurity. I laughed when he said it. I know what he meant because I don't like doing things. I'm like a homebody, and I don't really like socializing too much. I don't like outdoor activities and sports, and he likes all those things. I'm always insecure about not liking that stuff because my mom's like that, and my dad is a really big go-getter, and my dad always punished my mom for that unintentionally, but made her feel bad about, You just like to sit on the couch and watch TV and nap, and why don't you ever like to do anything? I always was like, I don't want to be like that, but I am like that.

But Chris said to me, You're one of those boring people alive. By the way, if you're bored, it's because you're boring, that old trope. And he said to me, Even though you're boring, I accept that about you. I'm never going to throw that in your face. I'm never going to make you feel bad about not wanting to do things. And for whatever reason, I don't know if it relates exactly to realizing I'm lovable, but it does because I was like, I can't change the fact that I like to lay on the couch and watch TV and be on my phone. I've always felt guilty about that. And I always felt like he was going to, at some point, just get fed up he should be with a girl who likes hiking and likes jet skiing and likes to go meet people and talk to the waiter about how their weekend was. He deserves that. I used to say that to him. He's like, Stop saying that. He's like, I don't want that. I just trusted him for the first time. He's not going to use it against me like my dad has with my mom.

Well, what's really sad is it's all self-fulfilling prophecy. You're almost forcing him to leave you.

I was because he loves me unconditionally, and I just felt like there were some conditions that I was holding back that once he finds this thing out, he'll leave.

They were yours, though, which is crazy.

I've let him know those conditions, and he's just like, Yeah, I know you smoke weed sometimes and hide it from me. He's like, You're not tricking anyone. And by the way, I know I told you I quit smoking weed, but I do. And he's like, You're not hiding it well. I've noticed. I just figured it's your thing. I don't need to be involved. It doesn't seem to be ruining your life. The whole time I'm thinking, I can't believe I'm hiding this thing from him. I feel so bad. We still don't talk about it. That's the thing I'm trying to figure out a way to work on stage because pot smoking for me is this thing I can't quite let go of in my life that I come back to and I feel, Oh, it's not great for my life, but it's not too bad. I have a lot of guilt about it, and I don't tell him when I do it. Sometimes I'm around him and I'm a little high and he doesn't seem to notice. Maybe he does, but he doesn't confront me. Maybe he doesn't care. Yeah, he probably does. Yeah, he does.

He used to in the past, I think, and that's why I have it in my head because he's broken up with me over it before. Because I was like, I want to be someone who gets high before a Fleetwood Mac concert. He's like, When are we going to Fleetwood Mac? I'm like, I don't know if we're at a Wilco show. I just want to be able to smoke a joint that someone passes me. He's like, I don't know this person because it wasn't who I am. I was just trying to push him away. But anyway, I was thinking about him like, Am I allowed to do this thing that I don't need to tell him I'm doing every time, even though I feel guilty about it? Why don't tell him every time I shit? As far as he does, I don't shit. I close the door every time. We don't talk about any of my issues in that area. Maybe it's that, but I'm rationalizing it.

This may be helpful. We had this incredible sex therapist on Alexander Katahakis. She was incredible. My question was, should people who have been sexually abused who now desire, for lack of a better word, some kinky sex, should they feel guilty? It's not their their fault, and if that's what they enjoy, and she goes, No, it's totally fine. There are a lot of sexual abuse survivors who will be in subdom relationships. It's very crystal clear. If you have shame and secrecy around it, it's a problem. And if you don't, it's not a problem. So I would argue all you've got to do is be honest about it, and there will be no issue.

What if I'm honest on a podcast he doesn't listen to? But he could listen to.

Yeah, he and my wife could bump into each other and have no this conversation took place.

Exactly. All the places I talk about it openly, he doesn't listen, but he could. It's there. We talked about it in therapy, and I've cried about it because he doesn't want to know. Why is it bad? He's never had any drug in his life. He's never drank. He's never done anything. It's not even a Christian thing. It's a control thing. He noticed his friends being drunk, and he was like, I don't want to look like that. And so he just never did. And I think it's a little bit of the dare program. There's a reefer madness type of like, you're a loser a little bit. He doesn't want a girlfriend hitting a bong. It's dirty.

But their house also be a little bit of the fact that you had a problem drinking.

And that is what he would say, Nikki, why don't you say that part to them?

Right. Which, of course, I'm going to be deeply interested in because I don't drink either.

Do you have a weed issue? Have you? No.

Have I? Yeah. Leading up to a big relapse. It was a tricky one, and I can relate to everything you're saying because alcohol is cut and dry for me. It's black and white. I have a drink on Thursday night. You will see me Sunday, and I all have gotten Coke, and all these things will happen. Very predictable. There was some period where a gummy, I don't know, I go to sleep, I sleep better. There's no wreckage. There's no out of control I don't crave it like the other stuff I crave. And then having been clean and sober for 16 years and going, and I also don't like that I would need anything. Yeah. Right? So I know the racket.

What's that?

You need that? Nicotine. But I am at total peace with this. There's no secrecy.

I love that you're holding it out because I could be friends with people for years, and I'll see you doing what? I go, When did that start? Years? They can hide it so well. So there's a shame around this stuff.

If I'm hiding, there's something to be looked at. If I can't do it out in public, then that's my clue I need to get comfortable with one or the other. Not do it, or I got to just own it. Then people around me, I guess I'll trust to tell me, I just can't have the zone where it's like, I have a secret. Because then you can't even evaluate the thing, because actually you're evaluating your feeling of having a secret, not even your feeling of using weed.

The way that I was able to stop smoking as much weed once was to... When I did it, I was smoking from pipes during COVID. It's dirty and it felt bad. These are crack pipes. They're the same. I one time went out before a set on Hollywood Boulevard to smoke a little pipe, and I turn around, and a homeless man, we have the same pipe.

And he's smoking rock.

It's the same green color. We're both blocking the wind. Hoping no one sees you. Yeah, it was a real eye opener, and I kept doing it for months after that. But if I just go, I need this. You know it's bad, but you're not a bad person, and you're doing your best.

I don't think you can even evaluate what the weed is until you detach the secret from it. The pit of disapproval and angst is more about the secret.

You're right, because when I'm honest about what that weed does for me. It's the one thing I still have guilt over in terms of all my addictive behaviors. I was like, what does it give me? To be honest, it just gives me instant relief from depression, from suicidal thoughts. It medicinally offers that to me in a short term. It can sometimes backfire and I say a dumb thing, or I wouldn't do it before something like this. And I have in the past.

I think it's a harder one to evaluate for people because it doesn't have the wreckage that other stuff does. You get DUIs, you fucking smack your friend, you fall down an elevator and pee your pants. None of stuff happens.

That's the tricky part of it. It picks me up out of a depressive state, like almost nothing else I've ever found can. Alcohol used to, but it's so obviously sloppy. But weed, I can function. No one calls me out for it. People don't really notice. I can see it, and I'm sure people do notice. It affects me being smart and funny, but then sometimes it makes me smarter and funnier.

What if you're the third smartest and funiest and not the second or first?

I'm way down on this. Or the 12? No. See, that's an unacceptable, but it's- You're Taylor Swift of comedy. That's the That's the only thing I've ever wanted to hear in my life. You are. So thank you for that.

Women love you. The amount of people have asked us to have you on, the amount of people that had seen- Someday you'll die.

Someday you'll die. I talk about you in that, by the way. I know. And I hope you don't think that's an ugly joke because I want to be very clear about that because I say that I'm arranging be broad in terms of my looks. If I have enough makeup, I can look like Kristen Bell, but my boyfriend every day wakes up to Dax Shepherd. That's a woman looking like a man joke, but you are a hot guy. So I felt like I could say that and not hurt your feelings.

Thank you. But yes, of course I watched it because I am narcissistic enough to know if there's a joke that has me in it. I'm I'm certainly going to find out, was it the thing I'm fearing? And I thought I didn't care at all. I took it as a dude joke.

Yeah, okay. Because as you were saying this stuff before, I'm like, Oh, my God, that other joke. Would he interpret it? Because it wouldn't even occur to me that you could, but I'm glad you did it.

Yes, I watched it. I thought it was a great special. But I just want to say so many people had immediately taken to our comments, that's when I had the sense, oh, Nikki's really, really huge. There's some connective tissue with you and Taylor in that you have worked your fucking ass off. You decided I'm going to be this whether you think I'm going to be it or not. Bad news, I'm stubborn and I'm going to be this thing. There's something very relatable, and I think people can see themselves in you. I see how my oldest daughter, the gift Taylor Swift has given my family when I watch the women in my life, the impact that she has on them, how she can make them feel in the confidence in the Jubilee. It's such a crazy gift. It's awesome. And it's because in some way you could be her. I mean, you can't, but also you can.

Taylor had something to prove. Even showing up on the scene, coming out as a country artist, and then making it into pop music, and winning Album of the Year for Fearless, and then people saying, Other people wrote that, and she's like, Well, the next album I'm going to write all by myself, and look how great it does. She definitely is inspired by people doubting her. I wish someone would have told me earlier on whenever someone's like, What would you tell your younger self? Any young people listening or any people with kids listening, if your kid isn't good at something right away, like a natural, please know, and you might not even know this because I don't think I would have known this as an adult had I not experienced it. And I think we all hear this, but we don't let it sink in. The difference between great and good is just hard work. Someone can be great, and some people are just naturals, but mostly anyone can reach those levels if you just work hard enough. You can catch up to anyone who in high school is the quarterback, just work hard enough, and you can be Tom braided.

That was all work he put it. I just wish someone would have told me that because I always thought growing up, it was like, you either got it or you don't. I was just reading a book called The Anatomy of a Breakthrough because I just felt stuck. After the Golden Globes, I took a month off and was just like, how do I even write again? I don't even know. It has really been helping me. There's this one part about the guy that race solo climbs. I haven't seen that movie because it just makes my legs feel weird even thinking about him. But reading about how when he approaches a climb, everyone's like, what if you don't do that? He's like, I've done it so many times before with the ropes that there's no chance anything bad will happen. There's no room for error. If the wind is off that day or that temperature or there's rain or I'm feeling weird, it won't happen. It's so practice that it can't go wrong. And I realized, oh, my God, I totally free soloed the Globes and the Tom braided roast, which I didn't even intend to. I was just like, Oh, just do the set as many times as you can to try out which jokes are best.

I said the Globes monolog so many goddamn times that it was locked in and people were like, Are you nervous? And I was like, No, because it's just one other time. It's just one other time. There's no room for error. I don't like doing things that are room for error. That's why I don't like doing improv. That scares the shit out of me. Crowdwork is a struggle for me. I need to know it'll go the way I want it to.

Sure. So I'm a control freak as well, and I was very OCD as a kid and lots of tics, and I have a lot of control things. But I love these zones where I surrender to no control. It's so pleasurable because I'm fucking strangleholding so much of life. My routine and my schedule is psychotic and sadistic. When I have these pockets, these things I can do where I actually surrender to it, it's bliss. Do you have anything in your life?

I know that sexually, I like baby girl style stuff.

Oh, tell me, what's baby You know the movie Baby Girl, where she likes to be talked to like a dog, trained, like good girl, that stuff. Like a submissive.

Yes. Not that I'm a hypersexual person anymore. Things are changing hormonally. But things that I've been into and things that I watch, it's the girls out of control. She's not telling anyone what to if she's being told what to do. So I find it there. But I'm trying to see if any other...

Doesn't pot do that?

Oh my God, you're so right. Because sometimes, just because I want to feel adrenaline, I'll smoke before I go on stage because I'm like, You got to try, bitch. You can't go on autopilot. You got to think about what you're doing. You're high. Are you going to remember even what you're talking about right now to finish this sentence?

You said you smoke pot to give yourself anxiety, which I found interesting.

Yeah, I like anxiety.

I think you might, too. That's fun. Do you? I like being awake. Yes, and that's why I like the chaos because it brings me to a level I can't reach normally. Improv, like you're saying, the element of failure is so present that a new zone of my brain wakes up. I get the extra dopamine and adrenaline and neuroepine and all this stuff. I can access a part of myself, the survivor in me, and I love I love being like, Oh, my God, I don't know the end of this joke, and I'm telling it right now.

Is it going to come to me? Yes. The craziest moment of my life. I don't even like to think about it. You know you have those moments where it's like near-death moments. You don't even like to think about when you almost walked in front of a train or something because you're like, Oh. It was at the iHeart Awards or something, and Usher was hosting, and he pulled me up to dance, which was really awkward. It was hell. I got last on dancing with the stars. A really deep insecurity in mind is that I can't dance, and so I just don't like to be forced. And with Usher, the best dancer in the world. It was in front of Machine Gun Kelly. I remember Megan Fox is sitting next to him, and they're all watching this awkward thing. I brought as my date my dancing with the stars partner who had seen me fail already, and I'm dancing in front of him. I'm trying to get some control back in this narrative of dancing, and I'm just thrust into this. And Usher was singing a song right before it. It was a Michael Jackson song. I just didn't know the words to.

Everyone else seemed to, and he put the mic in my face.

Oh, no.

Usher, if you would have given me one of your songs, I would have nailed it. But I don't know this obscure. It was to me, a be-trare. This is literally my night. So that already happened. This is not live on TV, but it's the whole audience. It was at the Dolby or something. It's thousands of people, and it's after the show and Usher is just dancing. I had to do this awkward dance, and then I was like, Usher, can I just have the mic? I just need to do one thing I'm good at, which is talking into a mic. I was like, Can I just say how embarrassing that just was? I got last on dancing with the stars. I did my dancing with the stars bit. I always say on dancing with the stars, I got first, voted off. I say in front of my dance partner, Gleb Sefchanko, who is as hot as his name is, disgusting. I have my bits. I wasn't trying to make it about me. I was just trying to get a couple of jokes in. I go, ever in the audience, I want you to know what I'm feeling right now.

The thing you're worst at in the world that has been determined on ABC that you are terrible at. You have to do it in front of Usher, and I go, Machine Gun Kelly, and I forgot Megan Fox's name. As I'm saying Machine Gun Kelly, I'm going... It was probably, to me, 20 seconds of like, What is her? At the last second, it just Megan Fox, but it was so close. And I go, What would have happened had I not remembered? That's why I can't fucking just rift. I can't be trusted. It's like your light flash before your eyes of not remembering Megan Fox's fucking name. But thankfully, it came out. But one of those moments.

You're always putting yourself in bad situations.

Have you done- Risky. Even last night, yeah.

How about this? I did a live show for a Formula One podcast I had. It was a disaster. We have done many, many live shows, and they go great. There are It was so fun. We did this one in Vegas, a bunch of drunk people. No one knew who the fuck we were. It was terrible. We had to do a full hour. That's what we were hired to do. I, at least at this age, and having done enough stuff, about 10 minutes into it bombing, I go, Oh, this is great. This is going to be so memorable for all of us.

That's what I learned from the corporate gig I did in October. That was the worst I've ever bombed in recent memory. Tell us that. It was more money than I've been offered for a gig ever. Can't turn it down money.

You said it looks like a It looked like a phone number.

It looked like a phone number.

I was like, Yeah.

I even think I said, This doesn't seem ideal because it was for a vague hedge fund. Not even a hedge fund, it's like a group. It was like a conference for rich people to go and do fireside chats and just different activities to learn how to destroy the Earth and profit from it. It was just a bunch of media moguls, but I didn't read the fine print. I was just like, yeah. Then it shows up way sooner than I thought. It was like, oh, that's in October. I think I said yes to it in August. That seems forever. Then it was the day before I hadn't done anything for it. I had shows all week. I just was like, I'll just write some jokes right before it. I was underprepared for sure. Then I'm trying to memorize all the jokes that I'm writing before because I saw it going bad because they sent me a picture of the setup and it's on a beach and it's in the round. People don't realize it's so important for comedy. You need a ceiling. You need dark in the room so people can laugh at inappropriate things and not feel like their coworkers or their peers or their wife is going to be like, You relate to that or you think that?

So they need to be in the dark. Standup comedy, I think, shouldn't be a surprise. I don't think anyone's ever excited about a stand-up comedian coming in. At the end of a long day, it was like 9: 30 at night before the DJ. They just wanted to get drunk and get loose. The end of the long day of all these meetings, and they're like, And we have a special guest, and I'm doing an hour. Comedy should really never go more than 40 minutes. And Kevin Hart's there, but he just has to do a fireside chat. I actually ran into one of the guys that was at the show at the Golden Globes party, and he was like, I was there. Or no, he was like, I booked you. He's the guy that booked me. He was like, I want to have you back because we I didn't nail it for you. It wasn't good. I'm sorry it was a beat. What a redo. I did the same thing. You were saying, I want the redo for the story because now I told the story of this gig on Kimmel, and it made it all worth it.

This would have just been a thing I never remembered.

You would never be telling this story if it went well.

I wouldn't have grown from it. Now I can accept those gigs and not have fear because I know what needs to go into them to do well. So Kevin Hart was there. I say hi to him before it, and I'm like, This is going to be bad. Don't watch. He's like, No, I'm going to stay. By the end of it, he was gone because I was like, Let me do some Kevin Hart roast jokes. I didn't do it the time, braided roast, and he was long gone. I walked Kevin. What's I was saying the host of The Bachelor was there, the one that was canceled. Chris Harrison was there for some reason. He didn't say hi afterwards. It was so lonely. You have to walk through the crowd. If it would have been nice to just go back to stage, and they literally, after I said, Good night, couldn't hold the applause. The stage is as big as this table. I just stepped two feet, and by the time I hit the sand, the applause was over. And then it was just crunch, crunch, crunch. Through the sand, my heels just digging in. I don't mind if an audience actively doesn't like me or is like, That joke's inappropriate, because I'm like, I know it's not, and you're just up tight and you some identity, which is to be offended, and I can come at you.

But when they're just embarrassed for you, they're right. When you can feel it. The pity, the guy at the party was like, Well, I will say you were doing jokes about molesting your nephew. And I go, Wait, no, no, no. No, I did it about the idea of Musk. He was like, What's the fucking difference? And I go, Well, there is one. It's nuanced. I go, You're so right. The material was so inappropriate for that event, but that's what my act is right now. That's who you hire. Next time I do these gigs, I would love to do them, but I want to be hired to roast the people. Then I will have a plan. I won't have to go into my dumb act.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

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Bunk. Michael, what are you doing? I'm saying Bunk, Vinnie. What's a Bunk? I'm glad you asked, Vinnie. Bunk is a super easy to use free digital bank that pays 2. 67% interest on your savings. Paid weekly, fully on demand, and can be set up in just five minutes. It's fun to say.

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2. 67%, Vinnie. Paid weekly. Paid weekly. Okay, Bunk. Bunk. Hey, it is fun to say. Bunk Ireland is regulated by the Dutch Central Bank and by the Central The Week of Ireland for Rules of Business Conduct. Terms of Conditions apply. I'm John Robbins, and on my podcast, I sit down with incredible people to ask the very simple question, How do you cope? From confronting grief and mental health struggles to finding strength in failure. Every episode is a raw and honest exploration of what it means to be human. It's not always easy, but it's always real. Whether you're looking for inspiration, comfort, or just a reminder that you're not alone in life's messier moments, join me on How do you cope? Follow now wherever you get your podcasts or listen to episodes early and ad free on WNDRI Plus. How Do You Cope is brought to you by Audible, who make it easy to embark on a wellness journey that fits your life with thousands of audiobooks, guided meditation, and motivational series. Hey, everyone. It's your girl, Kiki Palmer. Did you know I host a podcast called Baby, This is Kiki Palmer, and you're not going to believe the conversations I've had.

Like, is OnlyFans, OnlyBad? How has dating change in the digital age? What's the deal with Disney adults? I talk to John Stamos, the VP, Kamala Hertz, to Jordan Peel, Raven Simone, and yes, the one and only Jamila Jamil. And just wait until you hear our conversation. We talk Twitter drama, bad dates, and then time.

How the hell do you actually get sexy? What the hell does that mean? I know how to be funny.

I know how to be like, you know what I'm saying? I don't really know how to be like, and take you.

I'm not Robin fucking Givens.

It's like, how do people do that? I've been in this situation too many times and not felt any of those things, the girl eyes, the quiet.

I've never been quiet a moment in my fucking life.

Yes. On Baby, this is Kiki Palmer. No topic is off limits.

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Okay, I want to go to two things before we wrap up because you've given us a lot of time already.

Oh my God, I could see her all day. You went to 22 Taylor's West shows.

On the Ares tour. I'm so jealous. And you have this history. I don't know if we can do a really short-I can take that. I went once. I took my 11-year-old to Lisbon, and it was the greatest.

Oh my God. It was fun.

But you did 22, and you have this history. I'll just do one second because I wasn't even aware of it. But in some BuzzFeed thing, you made fun of her in some capacity, and it ended up in the doc. Now, I saw the doc and I loved it, and I don't remember that part at all.

I'm so glad. I did some interview ages ago, but when I get jealous, I think mean things. I was really into her at the time, and I just saw the friends she kept. I was like, Oh, I don't fit in there. I just said something about how she just has model friends and commented about her size, too. Then in the documentary, it comes out she was struggling with eating issues.

Which you have as well.

Which I had already been through in my life. But at the time, I was also not in a recovery for eating stuff. So I got myself to a good place weight-wise that no one would know I had food issues, but I was still chasing that. And I wasn't good at anymore looking like that. I couldn't do it. And so I resented it. I mouthed off on a thing that I thought no one would hear, which doesn't excuse it because now I know it gets out and it ends up in her documentary. And I felt just so bad, not because I'm busted. People know I'm mean or something. It was just she saw that. Maybe she wouldn't have seen it had it not ended up in the doc, but she definitely saw her own documentary. She's seen me say that. And that's the person I like the most in this world that brings me the most joy. I made them maybe feel sad. Couldn't handle it.

I heard you say that you were unable to listen to her music.

Yeah, it was embarrassing. If you have a bad run in with someone or you make someone uncomfortable.

They remind you of your fuck up. Yes. And you haven't made any amends.

I was like, you don't deserve her music. You hurt her. You contributed to her wanting to go away.

You wrote her an apology and tried it to get it to her through agents.

Their response when I first was like, hey, I think I'm in this documentary because I just heard my voice in the trailer. My friends were like, that's not you. You would never say that. I go, You don't say that because I say it about you, bitch. They were like, you love her. I'm like, I know, but you should hear what I say about you. Anyone I'm jealous of. This was the old me. I really have done so much to not be a gossipy current.

Well, you learn lessons through hurting people, feeling really bad about it, and then deciding no one do that again.

You're allowed to make mistakes. I allow that for myself now. At the time, I don't think I even allowed it as much, but I learned from that because I knew that a letter wasn't going to get to her or I wouldn't be to know it. So I was just like, I'll just put out a public thing, and that's the only way. And I didn't even know if she would see it or not. But as soon as I did, I was like, I put out apologies that wasn't just trying to let the public think I'm okay again. I knew it was about me letting go of that because I could listen to her music afterwards. I was like, okay, I repented. I really do feel bad. I owned it. I said everything that I needed to, to not excuse myself, but to explain myself and actually say why this won't happen again and be honest. And I just felt like now I'm finally, in the words of Taylor Swift, clean. Yeah. I love that song. I'm finally Clean, yes. Then she commented on it. Oh, that's what I wanted to know. I didn't even know. I was on a date later that night, and I put my phone away just to pretend like I was a girl that doesn't check her phone and like, Oh, I don't need it.

He was a comedian, he went down to go to a set, and I instantly check my phone when he goes down. I have dozens of text She's just being like, Did you see? She wrote something back. I only read it once because I can't handle it. It was very nice. From my memory of it, it was just something of like, this means so much to me. It's a great example of being able to explain your vulnerability. She just got it. She fully got what I was doing. I love apologizing now when I can really get down to why it happened and own it and be like, I was just insecure. I was jealous that you're thin. I want to be your friend. I didn't see myself fitting in, and I lashed out. And that's what it is. It's nothing more. It's nothing to do with you. Sometimes I find myself when I slip up, if I am really close to someone who maybe works with me, they're working with me because I want them to have to be friends with me. And I obviously want their expertise with me. But then they grow up and they're ready to spread their wings and fly.

I've, in years past, said things that would maybe make them feel insecure and they called me out and I go, What is this? And I go, Because I don't want them to leave. It's because I know they're so talented.

Good for you for realizing.

It's a thing I have to check because I've had it done to me.

Back to the boys. A confident version of them wouldn't want to be friends with you.

Yes. Or unless I pay them, they're not going to believe you. It's just not true. I've been able to keep those friendships, but it's just the more I can admit my flaws. Like you said, if I'm not ashamed of it, if I can say, Yeah, I was jealous of Taylor Swift for being skinny. I went on this podcast and I talked about JLo. I watched JLo's documentaries, and I used to be not a hater, but a lot of society or culturally. So things about she can't sing or can't act or she can't dance, whatever. She gets a lot of hate. A lot of hate because everyone's so fucking jealous of her. Yes, look at her. She's so beautiful. She actually can sing really well. She's a passionate, fearless creator and performer. She made a documentary with her own money to tell the story of her rekindling romance that ended up not going well. She knew it could have maybe not put this out there for people to consume and judge, and people did. That's ballsy, and I'm actually jealous of that risk I'm thinking, And so what do I do? I have to shit on it.

And then I watched her documentaries, and I was like, Man, she's fucking cool, and I'm lame. Any hate I have her is pure jealousy. And I talked about a podcast. She reached out to me, and now we're friends. I love that. And now I couldn't love her more. I see totally through every preconceived notion I had about her. It's free to admit when you're insecure.

For me, it's two-sided. It's either I'm jealous or they're displaying a side of myself I hate so much. My issues with JLo maybe in the past, where I'm like, Why do you at the Super Bowl game in the front of the road? I've been like, why do you need so much attention?

Yes, because you secretly want it, but you're not willing to do what she's doing to get it.

I need endless attention, and I hate that about myself. By the way, I don't even know if she needs attention.

Let's say it's the same motivation. Well, she went and got it. You are scared people are going to go, he needs attention. So what do you do? You shit on her so that you sell yourself the story that people are going to say that about you if you do it, which causes you to not do it. I always make fun of people who do cringe things online. Not always. I used to. If someone's doing something comedically and taking a chance or showing their stomach fat or doing something that's really vulnerable.

That you told yourself you wouldn't be lovable if you did.

I'll make fun of that person to my friends behind their back, because then when I want to do something like that, I'll go, Nikki, don't because people will make fun of you. I have to create a narrative so that I don't take those chances. Usually everything that I hate on is jealousy. It's fun to unpack it and go, oh, it all whittles down to that. The more exhausting it gets to be anyone but myself, the better for That is the best thing about aging is that it just becomes too tiring to try. Then people end up liking you so much more when you don't. Yes, exactly. I could have just been doing this all the time. But you really can't because you can't get there any sooner.

That's why I go tell my younger self something. I don't even play that game. I didn't listen to anybody. No. That was part of my charm. Even if it was me who came back, I wouldn't listen to me.

You try to tell your kids stuff?

Pretty much I don't. I try to avoid that. I'm living, I'm modeling. They'll pick some things up, they'll see other things don't work. They're very bright. I think it'll work. That's good. Okay, so have you, though, ever had one-on-one with Taylor?

Yeah, I actually met her before I was a huge Swift. During her red tour, I got invited because it was a show on MTV, and they invite us backstage, and I got a moment with her.

But nothing post-apology?

No, nothing post- And you probably don't want that? Not even. I want to just be a fan. I just really like being a Swift, and I want to keep it that way. I like putting her on this pedestal that she probably doesn't even want to be on. I like feeling like a little girl when I'm at the shows. That's why I go to 22 shows. It's four hours of the best dopamine release I've ever had in my life. I feel Like the happiest person I've ever felt. I can't risk losing that. So right now, what we have is so perfect of her being this pop star that I admire.

As you get more successful, it's harder to be a fan. It's still fun to be a fan. It's the best. I think that's worth preserving.

I love being a fan. It's one of my favorite things.

Okay, and so I'm going to preface this by saying, truly, you must know, I don't care how anyone gets sober. I have zero judgment about how anyone does it. I am intrigued and fascinated that you read a book 12 years ago and quit drinking Alan Carr.

Alan Carr, the easy way.

Everyone loves that. What happens?

Because I'm just curious.

I think I heard Ellen on Jay Leno's Tonight Show talk about quitting that way, quitting smoking. I heard maybe Ashton Kutcher. It was a couple of celebrities had talked about it, and I was like, Oh, I'll just get the book to see what happens. And then I was ready to quit smoking, and I just was like, I'll read it because you get to smoke while you read it. That's the thing that made me go, Okay, great. And then by the end of it, he goes, Have your last cigarette, but I bet you don't want one. And he's right. You just don't want one. And I could not have explained that to my smoking self, but I promise you, it just worked on me. And so drinking, I wasn't ready to let go of anytime soon. At that point, I quit smoking, I think, 2009. So I needed two more years with drinking. And then I hit a bottom in Cleveland after a weekend of shows. I was supposed to go see the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame one morning, but I was hung over, and I couldn't go. And I'm like, Oh, this is affecting me seeing Brittany Spears sequined outfit from the 2000s VMAs.

This is becoming unmanageable. If I can't see John Lennon's sunglasses or whatever. And so I was puking all day. And I had already bought the book because I just I knew I was circling the drain, and I just needed that one moment to go, I'm going to read it. So as soon as I flew back to New York, I grabbed the book and I started reading it, the drinking one. If you're interested in this, people go, Which one? Because there's lots of them. Just whichever one. The one for women, the one for controlling drinking, whatever you want to do. I don't think you can really control drinking, but give it a whirl.

They're all by Allan Karr.

Yeah. Allan Karr died of lung cancer, broadly enough, because he smoked for like 30 something years, but eventually created this method, quit. It robs you of any reason you have to do it. Any excuse you have of like, It makes me more social, let's piece that apart. Actually, we're going to prove to you without a question of a doubt that it doesn't make you more social. It makes me more brave. Okay, well, then firefighters would be getting loaded before they ran into burning buildings. They're not. It's not bravery. It makes you dumb. That's the bravery. You're saying things that you wouldn't normally say.

Your frontal lobes offline.

Exactly. You're becoming dumb. It's dominating you. And so all the excuses that you had- Relaxes you. It relaxes you. Then it proves that it doesn't. It actually causes way more anxiety. So you're left with no reason to do it. They found that for a lot of people's addictions, I guess, when they have no reason to do it, they don't need to do it because you're always making excuses of why you need it. That's why I haven't read the pot book yet because I'm not ready to give it up because I know it'll work.

You probably know enough about AA. You come in and quit drinking, and then you're left with the reason you drank, and The meetings and the steps are about addressing not the symptom, you've quit the symptom. So did you find that you were now someone without their medicine?

Then it just went to food, it went to pot, it went to sex, just things that not as detrimental. It was really the hangover that I was avoiding more than anything. So it was food, mostly because of my history with anorexia. After I gained enough weight to not be a death's door, I just went to like, binge eating. And bulimian was always in some eating disorder state. Then it was like 10 years. It was COVID where my life got small and then the food just filled up. So my life was so busy because it kept me from eating all the time. And then I was just uncontrollable around food, unmanageable. And that's when I was like, I need help for this, and got back into a thing and realized, oh, I didn't look at the spiritual element of it. Would it be fair to say the drinking for whatever reason on the continuum, that book was sufficient, but that the eating...

You couldn't have read a book.

He has a book for emotional eating, and it did work. It did work. But it is a spiritual problem that I have. I don't think people know that if you're starving yourself or if you're bulimic or if you're over eating or whatever it is, there's a place for you. There's a twelve step for you that might not sound like the place you should go because you might be an undereater, but There's a blank anonymous that has a place for you that I didn't know about and didn't consider because I was like, that's not for me. But it helped so much. I've been sober from starving myself for four years. I've been off gum for four years. Gum was a big thing for me. I get sores in my mouth. It was cigarettes two bags a day of this Trident. It's this trickier thing because you have to find your own sobriety.

Is it like SLA and that you define your bottom line, basically?

Yeah, you define your own thing. Mine for a while was, don't eat in bed. Then I was staying in hotel rooms where I was like, well, there's no table. Let's amend this one. Now mine is, if you're hungry, you don't get to keep going. You have to eat. The first second that I'm like, I'm hungry, I don't get to be like, Yeah, let's ride this out. That's not negocial. You don't get horny at the thought of- Because I used to get like, Oh, my body is eating itself. I'm doing something productive. Let's ride this. You don't get to do that more. Other girls get to do that. That's a very common thing I hear about all the time. I skipped breakfast. I don't get to. You don't have that luxury. No, I can't be trusted with starving.

I don't have any opinion on whether people should go or not to a 12-step program. But for me, I could have maybe I knackled it over the last 20 years, but I would have missed out on so much shit, learning how to be honest with myself, learning how my fears were, learning how to say sorry to people.

I think that's a big part of it, too, is just hearing people you would never, ever hear their stories and just learning how to be just vulnerable around strangers and feeling in a safe space. It's good for everyone. I'm always like, I wish there was one for just a normal person, and there is. It's called Al-Anon because everyone can call it. Everyone has someone in their life. So there is a room for you.

One of the early premises of this show was me going, Can you have an AA meeting in public? Because I feel bad that people can't experience this. This is wild. You come in going, I'm not like anyone. I hate all these people. I'm not like them. I'm different. And then they start talking. You're like, I do that. Oh, yes, I've done that exact same thing. There's a human quality to it that since I'm not religious, I don't get it there. I don't know where else I would have experienced that. What a thing to experience.

Teaching you empathy, it's amazing. It's a lost part of our culture to share and be a part of a community. And yeah, it gives you that. But it's a lot of work. Oh, yeah. That's the problem I have. But, man, when you're doing it, it feels good. It's like meditating. It's always like, I have time to work out or meditate, and they say you should just meditate instead of work out. Sometimes it's just so hard to sit and meditate, even though I always feel better after it. Do you guys meditate? I do.

Same situation. I'm like, I should, and then sometimes I do. You're right, I always feel better after, but forcing it. And same with working out. You know you will always feel better.

You've never left the gym being like, why did I do that?

Never happened in the history of the world. I do because Howard did it and talked about it. So I do take up things that I hear people I admire.

Howard sold me on that big time. That really helped with my depression for a while until I stopped doing it. It's weird.

I can't figure out why I was an imperminent solution.

But then it stopped working because I wasn't doing it. Oh, God.

Isn't that with everything? Fucking daily reprieves. It's annoying.

You take the medicine and then you're like, I feel great. And you're like, I don't need to take this anymore. Why do we all do that with everything?

It's a big deficiency for human brains.

I'm prescribed ADD meds and I feel so amazing on them. I feel like it's cheating, and so I won't take them because I feel like, I can't lance arm struck life like this. I'll feel guilty. I can't be proud of my accomplishments because it's a pill. I tell my doctor, I can't take it because I feel like it makes me feel too good. He's like, Isn't that good? I'm like, But I just feel like I'm tricking you. He's like, You aren't tricking me. You didn't want this. I am a doctor. Don't insult me like that. But I like feeling bad, I guess. I feel like I deserve it.

That's what it is.

You might have a story that if you're not working so hard that you're just not worthy of anything.

I saw Jesse Heisenberg talking on CBS Sunday morning about volunteering during COVID. He moved back to Bloomington and worked at a shelter. He was the happiest ever was.

We had him on two.

So why did he go back to this then? Because I was like, why I want to go just do an animal sanctuary? I have enough money that I be fine the rest of my life. Why don't I just go rehabilitate goats and teach pigs how to walk again?

When we had Jeff Bridges on. I'll miss this. We talked about getting crazy religious about exercise and then crazy religious about lethargy. You would expect this from him, but the piece he had when he goes, Yeah, man, that's what life is. Just ride these waves. Yes, sometimes you're going to volunteer, and sometimes you're going to go make a movie, sometimes you're going to smoke pot, sometimes you're not. That's okay. That's okay.

You're not a bad person. No.

I think you have a lot of bad person.

Yes. There's a lot of bad person driving you. Because you say a shitty thing about someone you love, and then people point out, even that Taylor Swift, I'm like, I am a bad person. If I would have just seen that as a Swift, I'd be like, Fuck that girl. She's a mean girl. And it's like, Am I secretly a mean girl? And I'm like, I don't think so. Part of my brain thinking I might be a sociopath, but I learned that sociopaths don't question it, and they don't want to fix it, so I can't be.

Instead of you thinking you're a bad person, you could channel it to whoever else is probably not a bad person. The other Swifty, the other person who's writing something shitty about her, instead of saying, I'm a bad person because I did that, instead, it's like, I'm not a bad and I did that. So they're probably not a bad person either.

Yes. That does help me.

I think I do that a lot. We also had an OCD expert on who was explaining the majority of OCD isn't what you see in the movies. It's not washing your hands repetitively, and it's not checking the lock. It's people who are convinced they're a pedophile, but they are not. They have never done anything, but they're so worried they are. They won't watch TV shows with children. So in some way, I think there's a little bit of compulsive. You're so afraid you're a bad person. Yes. Even though there's no proof that you are other than a couple of fuck-ups that everyone has.

That's why I like to explore on stage is my darkest thoughts. And then hearing people laugh, I'm like, Oh, you've thought this, too.

All right, so I guess that wraps it. That's interesting about the book, and I dig it.

And it really has been easy to not drink. It's the number one advantage I feel like I have over people sometimes. Not having a kid is another one, I have to admit, has freed me up to do a lot of stuff in my late 30s and now into my 40s that I wouldn't be able to do at this level.

Although, Ironically, the time you're most grateful you don't drink is when you have kids and you're around other parents early in the morning with your fucking kid because they wake up early and I'm looking at these people, they're like, Oh, they're fucked. Dude, if I had to be doing this, which is already hard, hung over, I I don't know how they're doing. No. That's the times I felt the very most grateful.

Can you imagine 5: 00 AM waking up if he went to bed at 3: 00? Now I know why my mom was cranky and chug and diet coke, like she was hung over. I'm going to cut her some slack. That is rough, dude.

Well, Nikki, I had high hopes for this. I was quite confident this would be great, and it was way better than I even anticipated. Really? Oh, my God. That's so nice.

It really felt like a hang. Good. I was in the middle of it just like, Why am I so comfortable? It doesn't usually go like this.

Well, this was a blast. I hope you'll come back. Oh, I really want to tell people people should go see the Alive and Unwell Tour. It's in the height of it right now.

We just started, really. I've never performed in front of this many people in my life.

The theaters are also beautiful, right? It's a special honor to be able to play at those places.

It really is. This is new to me. I was doing theater tours for the past five years, and you'd sell 70%. Sometimes you sell out. It's a big deal. And now you're adding dates. Adding dates. And there's a little bit of, I'm the same person I was before. Maybe these people are wrong that are coming out, but it's actually really exciting because I'm trying to embrace, no, more people should see me. This is the right thing. I'm having imposter syndrome problems. But for the first time in my life, I'm working so much harder on my standup than I ever have. It was always just something that came naturally. I didn't have to really focus that hard. Now I'm doing the same thing I did with the Golden Globes and the roast, and I'm looking at my material that way. Let's punch it up and make it as hard-hitting as because I can do it. It's just more work. I'm taking this very seriously. This isn't just any stand-up tour. I'm roasting every city I go to.

You're doing like six Boston dates?

It's insane. Which is fucking nuts.

Eight New York dates. They're all sold out. Go to www. Nikke glazer. Com with an S and go quick because I was just there and so many of the shows are already sold out. Congratulations. You so deserve it. I'm really happy for you and you're going to make so much money. I hope you buy something obnoxious in Saint Rose.

Yeah, and you don't have to spend it on your kids.

Yeah, but Taylor's not on tour anymore. You're going to save so much money. That's a good point.

All right, Nikki, this is a blast. Come back. Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that were wrong. The current confusion, and I get it, but I feel like we've said it, which is like, Why are Mondays now on video? And then I say, Oh, we offer to the guests. If they're up for video, then that's on. And then they go, Well, you said you wouldn't ever do that because it wouldn't be vulnerable. To which I reply, I did think that. And then we had Adam Scott on, and it was like one of the most beautiful connected, vulnerable episodes. And I said, That's not true. I found that out. Yeah.

I mean, also, you can listen. You can keep listening. No one has to watch this. If you prefer to listen, you should listen. Keep listening. But some people really enjoy seeing a visual, and we've enjoyed more than we thought. We've enjoyed doing it more than we thought, so we figured, why not offer that up when we can? Also, we do have guests coming up that aren't on video because of that exact thing where it just-They don't want to be on camera. They don't want to be on camera. I get it. Slash, even we've made some decisions like this specific person is probably better to not.

That's right.

Because it's more intimate for them. You're right.

Should we get right into the sim stuff? Yeah.

Me and you both have sim stories, and we've been dying to tell each other.

Yeah, because it came up yesterday when we were doing intros, and we were mad we weren't recording the fact check because I had the ultimate sim experience. Yeah. Boy, I want you to go first.

You do? Okay, because mine is going to be less. Is that okay? Yeah.

Well, just mine has a visual component.

Yeah, I'm fine. I'm fine to go first.

Mine isn't-Your stories are also better. No, they're not. They are. They're so twisty and turny. I never know. As we've said, you're like the M Night Shyamalan of just normal pedestrian in life. Is that what we were saying?

No, you said Seinfeld.

Seinfeld, yes. Way more Seinfeld.

I don't know where I just- Am I showing? I get it. It's like, you really don't know.

Until the last frame. That's right.

Okay, so my Sim story is our last fact check, we were talking about dating.

Oh, the matchmaker.

The matchmaker. And the ghosting. The ghosting. You saying, I wish you would just go talk to people. Yeah. And Being in the calling business, not the- Exactly. Not the receiving.

Incoming call business.

Okay, so we had that whole conversation. The next day, I was on Instagram, the Instagram app, and there was someone whose story I saw that I thought was fantastic. I followed this person and really, really like this person from before. I don't know him. But our paths have crossed many moons ago. Interesting. And so I follow him.

In the driveway while he was visiting his daughter? That would be Sean Penn.

Oh, no. He is so funny. I just find him to be the funniest person. Anyway, I'm watching these videos and I'm laughing, and I text a friend who I know knows him. Yeah, great. And I said, Hey, blank. Hey, this person's name. Is he straight and single? Do you know? She said, I'm pretty certain he's straight. I don't know if he's single. That's pretty certain. We don't always know. We don't always know. She said, I'm almost certain he's straight. I don't know if he's single.

Yeah. Hurdle number two.

Yes. And She said, The last time I saw him, I was walking around the reservoir, so we should start walking around the reservoir. Oh, wow. I was like, Oh, yeah, that's great. That's fun. We made some jokes, okay? Yeah.

Was he or she joking or was she sincerely?

I mean, I guess it's half joking. We're not really going to just- But maybe let's anyways.

Sure. Because it'll be funny anyways because we're doing this thing. Sure.

The next day, the next day, I was walking down the street and I walked past him. No. I I had such a visceral reaction for so many reasons.

One, it was- This is a big challenge that the universe put. I know.

Oh, fuck. I know you're not going to like where this goes, but It was like, what's the universe doing? Is it telling me?

Go say hi is what it's telling. There's nothing to interpret here.

This is as linear as it gets. And I walked past him and I went to the store.

And in person, did you get a PQ? Or were you like, oh, wow, yeah, in person?

Well, I didn't want to stare. I got a shock to my system because of the overwhelm of the coincidence.

Yes.

And I did not want to make a thing. And so I went to this store and just jumped into this- To hide. Store to hide. Collect yourself. And text my friend, of course. Oh, right. And she said, Did you say hi? And I said, No, I didn't. I don't know how to say hi. I said, I don't know how. And then she said, and then this is why things get confusing, right? Because then she was like, okay, yeah, maybe that is best. Maybe I know. I know you wouldn't like that part. Give me her number. No. She said maybe- Do I already have her number? I think so. She said, maybe an introduction is better. And so then I was like, yeah, I don't know. Anyway, I shopped at the store. I probably bought something. And nervously. Yeah. And then I walked back out and back past.

Oh, great. This is like the girl with the cowboy hat. I was trying to take Panay over. Exactly.

I walked back past, and I shook my head a little bit. To try to get a little attention. So that my pheromones could spread.

I want to play like a dog wags.

Like the dog tail. Yeah. And that was it. It was just wild. Yeah. Okay. And then I told Jess about this, and he was like, You told yourself if this happened again, you would say something. And I forgot I did do that. Remember the guy I saw in New York who I thought was so hot? And I thought, Oh, I should just say, Hey, You're so... Hey, just so you know, you're so attracted. I love looking at you. Have a great day. Remember after him, I was like, I should have said it. And then after the hot guy at the bar- And the guy at Farmer's Market. At the Brentwood Country Mart.

What's the bracelet?

At the Tower You couldn't get your bracelets on?

Oh, that's separate.

There was nobody. Had a guy put them on you? There was no guy. Okay, we can't count that one.

Yeah, that doesn't count. But the other guy at Brentwood Country Mart that was so attracted.

Yeah, how many street cars are you going to watch go buy? I know.

I am starting to think.

You got to get mad at yourself. That's a good motivator. That's when you're fucking, I've had enough of this. I'm going to live my whole life like this? Fuck this.

I'm like 4% there.

Oh, jeez. I thought this would take you into the 40s.

Well, I didn't know. I could take it as I'm mad at myself, I should have said something, or, wow, the universe loves me.

Sure.

It really gave me something. I didn't do anything about it.

But it's only going to try to help you so many times. Really? Yes. If you don't want its help, it's going to stop. A universe- You need to be way the fuck above 4%. I just, as your friend, I need to yell at you a little bit. You need to be in the 40, Eats. I'm going 82 % he knows you. Here, Comedy Girl. You got this popular podcast. We're on a very popular podcast. That's why we're staying at this hotel, Mr. Customsman in India.

Oh my God, oh my God. Yeah, it still haunt me.

I'll think about that. That's like the Neff Campbell thing for me.

Oh, yeah.

I'll be thinking about that for you. Oh, yeah. Wait, okay. What happened again?

Yeah, you told- The Indian customs man. Oh, yeah. When he didn't believe I was staying at the nice hotel, then he wanted first the phone number, then he wanted the address, then he wanted like, I don't know what he wanted. I did not believe that we were staying there. What are you doing here? I have a very popular podcast. Well, I'm one of the hosts of a very popular podcast, and we're in town to interview Bill Gates, and I'm like, he didn't know what podcast was. He didn't know what popular was. And I don't think he knew what Bill Gates was.

You didn't give a fuck about any of that.

It was a three strikes and you're out. We're so lucky I got led into that country.

I know. That was so funny. Okay, anyway, so that was so... The next day. The next day.

The next Yeah. You got to listen, girl.

I know. He's at Mahru a lot, too.

Oh, Mike. Spray. He's probably a pervert. Probably wants you to shit on a glass. Rob, if you see him at Mahru, will you ask? Ask him if he likes girls to shit on a glass coffee table. People are trying to get him. Tell her your friend's open to it, as long as there's not been 10 other people who have done it. As long as she's the first.

Exactly.

Well, you could be up to the third.

No, I want to be the first.

Okay. Yeah, you have standards.

Okay. Okay, now you have a sim moment, too. Now, let's hear it.

Okay, I pray that you think this is as insane as I do. So my friend Oliver, apparently is in Toronto, and he goes to a museum. Okay. And then he sends me these two photos from a museum.

Okay.

And I will explain to the listener. This is in a museum, and it is an Ames chair that was made between 1948 in 1950, designed between 1948 and 1950. It's called Dax Armchair, which Dax isn't a fucking word in 1948. Not only is it a Dax armchair, it was designed at U CLA and manufactured in Michigan.

Oh.

Are you fucking Dax's armchair? Does that not zap your brain? That's not possible. In a museum, Dax Dax Armchair. They should write fucking expert after it.

When this first popped up, I thought it was something for the show. I thought something in the museum was- This is in a museum of an Eames chair.

By the way, affordable. It was 20 bucks. It was meant to be a cheap- And we're cheap. Yes, I'm a cheapy. Dax Armchair. Why did they use that word? That wasn't a word. That's not a name. It was made at UCLA. It was manufactured in Michigan?

The Dax, listed at about $20 each.

I'm going to read the whole thing. 100 dollars a modern term. Dax Armchair, designed 1948 to 1950 by Charles Eames and Ray Eames, with staff of the Engineering Department, University of California, Los Angeles. This model made from 1955 to about 1972 by Herman Miller Furniture Co, Zeeland, Michigan. Molded polyester, fiber glass composite, steel rubber. I used to wear rubbers when I was single. That's a stretch. The chair design shared a second prize. Of course, I never win either. Second prize, you never win. I never win. My birthday is the second. The chair design shared a second-price loser in the 1940 international competition for low-cost furniture design, sponsored by the Museum of Modern Art, New York City, one of my favorite cities. The Dax listed at about $20 each or $100 in modern terms.

You have $100.

And the French name for it is Fattul Dax.

Fatoule? Fatoule Dax. Fattul? Fattul Dax. Fattulier.

Fattulier Dax. Wow. Monica, would you agree this is fucking insane?

It's just insane.

Dax armchair.

We got to get one, obviously.

For sure. 20 bucks. Who wouldn't?

No, 100 in modern- Oh, a hundred.

Oh, never mind. I want to contact this museum and just sit next to it so people can crack up. Where is Toronto. We're not going there. That was the first place I ever went in a hot tub. The Harbor Castle. Family Vacation. I read that in bed yesterday morning, and I couldn't... When is it too much? I'll cry. Maybe I'll cry a bit tonight about it.

You didn't cry about everything. You didn't cry about this.

I was just stunned. How crazy could it get before you have to go like, I don't understand.

I know. That's how I am feeling. How explicit do they have to be the SIEM engineers? That's nuts. I'm getting nervous, though, because Eric says the more we're onto it, they'll start unplugging.

Right. They'll get suspicious of us and start hampering our speech. I'm shook by that chair. And I must own it. It doesn't look terribly comfortable.

No, but we still- But I'm not either. We needed it.

What if I just couldn't, no matter what? It It's round. I'm round. It has four legs. I do, too.

Yeah, we need that in here, 100 %. So this is a ding, ding, ding-ish because my favorite podcast, Nobody's Listening, Right? With Elizabeth and Andy. Elizabeth loves signs like this. She lost both of her parents when she was quite young, so she often sees them in the universe in ways.

They're winking at her.

Yeah. She loves that, and I like it, too. That is a It was a sign from the universe. I know. It was a sign. It was a sign to keep going.

It's all going to be fine. Yeah, and it is all fine.

Exactly. Yeah.

I told you this about Laird Hamilton, Gabriella Frials said that he looks at her. She's like, I love his presence in my life because he's just unflappable, right? And she said that once in a while, when she's frazzled, he looks at her and he goes, It's going to be fine. It is fine. Yeah.

You did say this.

You said It's going to be okay. It is okay. Yeah. Right now, it's okay.

I love that. I really love that.

It's a very steadying- Also, we have a friend who did hypnosis, and I think I've said this before, but I think about it all the time. Are you the friend in the stories room where you did hypnosis?

No, it wasn't me.

In the attic?

Yeah, I do. Listen to that episode. That was an interesting episode. I got hypnotized real-time on this show. That's right. Yeah. Now, this friend got hypnosis to stop vaping. Part of it is you say, I used to do that. I don't do that anymore. Never again.

I used to do that. I don't do that. Never again. Yeah. I hate that sentence.

I love it. I think the I don't do that anymore is so strong. It's actually like the past, the present, the future, all in one thing. Right. Yes. But the present is the one that is the most impactful, and it's similar to it is okay.

Yes.

I don't do that anymore. Yeah.

My thing is to go... What has been helpful to me is to go whatever. When I quit DIP or any of the stuff I quit, which is all the time, I go like, Oh, my God, I want this so bad. And in 10 minutes, I won't.

Yeah. It doesn't help me.

It doesn't. For me, knowing, yes, this is an urge. It'll be passing. And then believe it or not, in 10 minutes, you won't be fighting this. It's very comforting to me because generally, when I get that strong compulsion to do something I don't want to do, my brain tells me I'm going to feel that way forever until I do the thing I want to do. Yeah, but it's tricky because some things- Some things never change.

Some things, I guess, depending on your addiction, some things don't go away. There's something to me about the mantra, if you're really trying to quit something, of just like, not like, I won't want this, because I think that's a lie for certain things, for certain people and certain addictions. I think it's not like, Don't worry, you won't want this soon because- That's not a reality. It might not be a reality. It's just like, Yeah, I used to do that. I don't do that anymore. I will say, though- And I'm not doing that again.

I don't want to drink. Yeah. Really, that is a That's a miracle in my life.

What I'm saying for you, that works.

That's a miracle that I was, as I say in the program, relieved of the obsession. That was unimaginable the first year. I'm just going to fucking... Every time I walk by a bar for the rest of my life, I'm going to want to go inside, and I got to talk myself out of not going inside for the rest of my life.

Yeah.

But I don't think about it ever. I could be surrounded by Jack Daniel's bottles, and it doesn't even... I'm just saying, Oh, yeah, it's just like a wall.

That is lucky. I don't know if that's for everyone, though.

Yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, If You Dare.

Have you ever gotten a message out of the blue? Maybe you ignore them, or maybe you end up in conversation. Maybe they tell you about an amazing offer. I can really show you how to make some money. And maybe that gets you into a lot of trouble. But this isn't a story about people like you, the people receiving these messages.

This is a story about the people behind the messages on the other end of the line, thousands of them working in a micro-city built for scammers.

From WNDYRI, the speakers of Dr. Death and Kill List, comes Scam Factory, a news series about survival at the expense of others. Follow Scam Factory on the WNDRI app or wherever you get your podcast. You can listen to Scam Factory early and ad-free right now by joining WNDYRY Plus in the WNDYRI app or on Apple podcast.

This is a ding, ding, ding, because this is for Nikki, and we do talk about addiction. I love this episode. Me too. I got to say, I told her it was like, we have these episodes every now and again. They really fill my tank up, and they make me really, really excited for our job. Not that I ever don't like our job. I always like our job. But sometimes I'm really turbo-charged, and it really hits me like, no, I love our job. To get to have something in your head and then work through it with the actual human being that we have access to that. And then they are so incredible and fun. Yeah, I just... Let's put a real spring in my step this episode. Not to brag. Go ahead and brag.

Not to brag.

That's a sign of really good good friends.

You can brag.

I think it is.

Yeah, but not... I mean, I guess the armcherries are my good friends. Yeah. I got two numbers that week.

Yeah, it was a big week for you. And hers was one of them.

And that was pretty cool. I played it really cool. Too cool? Well, no, because you exchanged numbers. And I didn't. I sat back.

We had a... Well, right. Oh, yeah, great.

As she was leaving, you got her number. Then I went in the corner during that part.

Peed on her tree. Yeah.

The little animal you were. She was like, Oh, God, what's she doing?

That's a thing she does. It's a good luck thing for us.

She does that at the end of every episode. Every single one, yeah. Then she reached out to me.

That's wonderful because it quiets any voice in your head that she didn't want to give you your number. Yeah, I don't- Because It's been a while we exchange numbers with the guests. You do. Yeah.

I don't.

You've done five times.

I will never instigate it, ever.

Most of the time I want their number. I like them, and I'd love to, at some point in my life, if I want to say hi to them, I want to be able to do that.

God, this is back to me and you at the bar. Yeah. You're just like, Give me your number.

Yeah, because I might want to say hi. I might see you in something, and I want I know. I'll be able to tell you I loved it or whatever it is. But it's perfect for you because you didn't ask for it, and then she reached out to you. Yeah, we love her. We love her. We love her. We're the number one fans.

Yeah, she's so great. She's so great. Okay, a couple of little faqies. Graceous Loser Face.

Graceous Loser Face.

That's from Friends.

Oh, why did they have to confront that?

Because Joey-Oh, he's not meant to name it for a daytime drama of soap opera. Soapy. Soapy. A sudsy.

A Sudsy.

Rachel is teaching him about Graceous Loser.

I'm guessing he probably had a really preposterous look on his face.

He got actually mad.

Oh, he did. When he lost. When he lost. Oh, That's great.

Yeah. God, it's a good thing.

I wish someone would do that. They're on their face and it's not their name, and they go, Fuck this. Fuck it, and they stand up and walk out. That would be awesome.

I feel like some of those people- Genuinenly.

And some of those people deserve to. Some of these people have been nominated 15 times fucking times in the same category and not one. I know. Please stop inviting me.

Exactly. Okay, do they do knee tucks? Yes. A knee tuck, also known as a knee lift, cosmetic procedure that improves the appearance of the knees. They can address loose skin, excess fat, and other signs of aging. Speaking of skin, I did the thing. I haven't done it in so long, but I did the thing you're never supposed to do, where I I felt something under the skin just a tiny bit. A hint of a pimple? Yeah, but I don't know if it's a pimple because it's been there for a long time. It's under, but it's not a cyst. It feels like I can feel it. It's more like a pin prick, like a splinter. Yeah, yeah. And so yesterday, I started fucking with it. And now I created a whole issue on my face. And we're about to... Kristen is hosting the SAGA Awards. By the time this comes out, it will already happen. Also ding, ding, ding, Nikki, Golden Globes. And I'm there to help her write her stuff. And so I'll be there. And now I have a whole- Where is it? It's right here. You can see it. It's okay.

No, money.

That's okay. I was just like, why don't we learn these lessons?

I know. The face stuff is impossible. I can't tell you how often I'm pushing on something going, don't do this, don't do this. This is a mistake. Oh, my God. I think I'm almost there. I am going to get it. I'm going to stop doing this. Okay, you're going to finish this, and you are not allowed to look in the mirror and start touching this again. I go through this madness all the time. I know. Yeah.

All right. Now, we talked about baby girl.

Oh, yeah.

Talk about baby girl. Baby girl has two meanings.

Okay.

Baby girl is a slang term used to describe an attractive man, often a celebrity or fictional character. It's a term of endearment that's become popular with Gen Z. A lot of people are... Like, Austin Butler is baby girl. Timothée Chalame is baby girl.

Yeah. We would have said in my era, a pretty boy.

Yes, probably correct. Attractive, cute, or vulnerable.

Oh, vulnerable.

Also, it's this sexual dynamic. Oh. Well, I don't know if it happened first, but the movie Nicole Kidman, Baby Girl, there's milk. She drinks milk. Like a kiddy? Well, she does drink like a cat. I don't know if it's different from when she also drinks milk because they've made that joke a lot on all these shows. And I fell asleep during 10 minutes of the movie, so that might have been when she drank the milk.

Yeah, this is like when you fell asleep during... Or you shut without a pedal off or you fell asleep. Took a shower in the middle. You took a shower. We had a recording.

Yeah, I understand. I had to get to.

You timed it perfectly. You missed my racist- I did.

I missed your racist thing. That was my Sim. That was probably my dad saying, go to shower now. I'll take a quick one.

Yeah.

Anyway, Baby Girl is a dominant woman being treated as a sub-sexually dominant in life, being subordinate sexually. I think often to a man who might be subordinate to her in life. You know what I mean? This is kinky. Well, yeah. And Baby Girl, she's the boss and he's the intern.

Oh.

See, I wanted it to be hotter, and I didn't find it hot.

What if she was coughed up a hairball? She got went into the role. She was hacking and stuff.

I wonder if you'll think it's sexy because I, in theory, could see it being sexy. But then when I was watching it, I was like, it's not really for me.

I wouldn't time me up. No, thank you. Handcuffs. No, thank you. What about...

Okay, at one time you dated this older model. Oh, were you subordinate there?

No, but that was I would say more like two equals wrestling match.

You mean physically?

Yeah, she was aggressive. I was equally aggressive back. Oh, okay. Yeah, it was like... But it was no sub done. It was not to Libre? No. She had a wrestling mask on.

Okay. Have you ever...

Been a sub?

Yeah. No, I don't think so.

Even with- Are you bringing up my molesting?

Oh my God.

No, I would never.

The darker, the better.

Okay, so you've never subbed? No. You've never been a substitute teacher?

No. Truly no shade to anyone. I've explored everything in my mind. I'm up for anything and everything. So I would I would try it. I don't care. I would try that. If Kristin is like, I want to handcuff you and hit you with a fucking horse whip or whatever. I'll be like, Yeah, okay, great.

What if she asked you to drink milk out like a cat? Yeah, great.

I would do anything. There's nothing I want to do. That's fun. But when I imagine whether I'd be enjoying it or not, it's hard for me to lock in.

Yeah. Okay. Well. All right. Baby girl. Baby girl. Okay. What did Taylor Swift. Good old Taylor Swift, say to Nikki in response to her apology. Her apology said, I love Taylor Swift. Unfortunately, I am featured in her documentary as part of a montage of ass hats saying mean things about her, which is used to explain why she felt the need to escape from the spotlight for a year. It's insanely ironic because anyone who knows me knows I'm obnoxiously obsessed with her and her music. The sound bite was from an interview I did five years ago, and I say in such a shitty She's too skinny. It bothers me all of her model friends, and it's just like, come on. This quote should be used as an example of projection in Psych 101 textbooks. If you're familiar with my quote, Work at all, you know I talk openly about battling some eating disorder for the past 17 years. I was probably feeling fat. Again, that's in quotes, feeling fat that day and was jealous. And I was only bothered by her model friends because I'd like to be her friend and I'm not a model.

That's a strong apology.

It is very. Then Taylor said, said, Wow, I appreciate this so much. One of the major themes of the doc is that we have the ability to change our opinions over time, to grow, to learn about ourselves. I'm so sorry to hear that you've struggled with some of the same things I've struggled with, sending a massive hug.

That's very sweet. That's as nice and repairing as a fucking thing can be.

Yeah.

Aspirational. It is.

All right. All right. Love you.

Love you.

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