Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're always watching what's happening in Duval. I'm Greg Rosenthal in my garage, and really excited to be joined on this show by Nate Tice of Yahoo Sports. You can check him out at his great podcast, Football 301, with our friends Charles McDonald and Matt Harmon doing an awesome job all season there. Good to have you back, Nate. I was thinking you actually were on our first week of shows, and I had so much respect for your time. I'm like, Man, he is grinding over there. I feel bad asking you in season. And then I heard you a couple of times killing it on Bomani Jones' show. And I'm like, Well, if he can do Bomani Jones' show, he can do this show. So welcome back, Nate.

I'm always available. Thank you, first off. I'm always available for you, Greg. You got to carry the G load around here because I'm zero % G. So that's why this is a great pairing whenever I'm with you. No, but thank you again. Always for having me. Always fun.

We're starting to do the Super Bowl bookings. I know you'll be down in New Orleans. And I mean it, Nate does a really good job recapping the league. He does a good job previewing games, just getting into the Xs and O's, but also is a great draft mind. And that's why I wanted to talk today. Just switch gears a little bit, do a little intro to this 2025 draft and talk a little bit about the games on Sunday night. But first, when you say 60 %, gee, I was thinking we're doing our bookings already for some of the Super Bowl appearances, and I think we're going to get Greg Olson on, which I'm pretty That's what I'm excited about. But I was thinking, I don't know if he's going to struggle just confidence-wise being with someone that's 60% G when he's only 50. It's tough for the one G Gregs to deal with sometimes.

Yeah, it's G And G-Reg. That's right.

G-reg has got enough confidence. That's a great point.

He's halfway there, but at least he has flow to make up for it. That helps it all out.

Flow for days, and since you mentioned it, every so often when the G-Reg clip pops up on Twitter, there's so many people that are like, I can't believe this ever happened because there's still all the young kids out there, they don't even know. If you don't what we're referring to, I believe the sixth floor crew, look it up, treat yourself, and get ready for that interview. I'm excited about it during Super Bowl week. Okay, I have a theory, Nate, about the Championship Games and about reality TV and the Super Bowl, too. I love Top Chef. That's my favorite. But I would say it's true of other reality shows. You spend a whole season building up to this moment, and then there's 60 seconds of after the moment you find out who actually won to talk about it. I feel like that happens with these big games, too. I'm in such a hurry to just move on to the next thing. So I did think before we get to the draft today, you've spent today grinding some film. I've been watching some as well. And I thought, just a few final thoughts in this game, maybe especially about the teams that we're not going to be talking about during the Super Bowl as well.

And you're such a good quarterback whisper, just guy to listen to about. I'm curious about your thoughts rewatching and seeing Jade and Daniels on film, isolating his play in this game, specifically. And then just thinking about what he needs, where he's going in year two.

Yeah, I would say just even this whole year and what you saw yesterday is, yesterday was the first time I've seen Jade and Daniels in a while take a, I don't want to say bad sack, but a sack that went for yardage. Maybe that's the best way. And I want to say that as a compliment, because one of the biggest hesitations I had with Jane Daniels coming into the NFL is, he takes a lot of sacs. He scrambles a lot. He's not that big, and he's going to take a lot of hits. I don't know how that holds up. The fact that this season, I can't recall how many big hits, quote unquote, that he's taken. Yes, he hurt his ribs, but it was a freak hit that he got on that one. But I wouldn't say that as a compliment that Jane Daniels adapted to the NFL even more fluidly and better than I could ever expected. I knew he would be more pro-ready and be a guy that could find some good answers. And And I thought that's where I saw it again yesterday against Fangio. Fangio was giving him, Vic Fangio, defense coordinator for the Eagles, was giving Jane and Daniels a lot of like, Hey, take this.

We're going to see if you can keep doing it. What do you do on the first drive? Kept doing it. He just kept taking the five-yard gains, the seven-yard gains, the six-yard gains. What we saw yesterday was the limitations of this offense. They don't really generate a lot of explosive plays outside the go-balls. Terry caught the Yack breakdown, which is really nice, Terry McLaren. But this offense, Outside of those goal balls, those haymakers we've seen throughout the year, the last time these two teams played, Terry caught one. The bangles game against the blitz, Jane Daniels hits the one goal ball in the end zone. Outside of that, not a lot of explosives. So what that puts a lot on the quarterback, a rookie quarterback, is he has to be precise four yards, five yards at a time. That's hard to do against a bunch of dudes, but against probably the best defense in the NFL, at least top three, top five this year. And I thought so good with Jane Daniels was he took those answers. You saw him be accurate. You saw not have a lot of negative plays. He doesn't really put the ball in harm's way.

There was one deep ball early. I did think he put a ball in harm's way, and then in the end, he had the interception, but the game was out of hand then. But then he took a lot of the simple answers, which is good. That's what you want to do. I always wanted to see him maybe push over the middle a little bit, but again, saw that yesterday. Saw the dig throw. He had to die, Amy Brown. That was really nice. That's what I still want to see more of, is more of those in-breaking throws. The thing is, so far, that hasn't limited his production. So it's more of just me maybe seeing that next step because he's an older quarterback and everything. But I'm watching him and I'm just like, he was the better quarterback on the field, I thought. Even though just overall, I really did because I just don't think he makes a lot of mistakes, which is really good, on top of being explosive with his legs, which is really good as well. So I still want to see a little more as a thrower, maybe pushing the ball a little bit more.

But as far as constant efficiency, I think he's just had a really good year. It's been a real, I would say, pleasant surprise. But the fact he's been able to do it consistently has been pretty remarkable and really fun to watch.

Yeah, you liked him. I followed your draft coverage last year, and you liked him, but you had him third, I believe, behind me. Yeah, I knew that for sure. The thing I was most impressed about in this game and throughout was just like, he would make mistakes, and he would not repeat the mistakes. I think he did some things in the pros, which makes sense. You're totally focused on it. The coaching is better, and you're surrounded by better players, although his teammates were pretty good in college, too. And he improved throughout the course of the season. And man, I do wonder, year two, I don't know if Cliff fell into bad habits because there was another version of that game where it's like your defense doesn't have to be that bad. You're running game outside of James Daniels doesn't have to be that bad. Your teammates don't have to fumble four times. There's another version of that game where being a relatively efficient passer wins you that game 23 to 20, and they don't really do much differently than they did. His teammates just play a different game. He was in a spot where I don't know if it was...

That was basically a no-win scenario the way that played out, where he hadn't done anything wrong, and it was 14 to 3. They were already losing. They make the comeback. But I'm excited. Would you still take Drake May over Jaden Daniels, knowing every... Based on all the film we've seen this year?

Oh, yeah. I would still take May. May's numbers were really good this year. No one just noticed. As far as the underlying...

Listeners of this podcast noticed.

They were probably sick of me talking about Jaden. Oh, I know. That's not just an eye test like, Oh, big arm, good athlete, all that stuff. It's like the underlying metrics were good for me this year, too, which makes me even more chest out about them, I guess. No, I think May is still the prize of this draft. But I will say that Daniel, and I'm still not out on Caleb either. I think Caleb did a lot of nice things this year. It's a tough situation. There are some concerns that maybe I was like, okay, maybe I waved that away, that maybe I should have focused on a little more. But you got a great I coach for him, I do think. But I think Daniels was closer to those two than maybe I gave him credit for. And I also want to say he's a little older. That's the one thing. He's played a lot of games, a lot of football. And then you can see that. That's a compliment. Again, it's a double-edged short. It's a compliment and I don't say a dis, but a negative, where it's like, Okay, is there more for him to grow into, or is this him the rest of his career, which isn't the worst thing in the world?

Here's the answer to that, though. It's not. Sometimes we get into this idea of like, Okay, he's played a lot. He hasn't played at the NFL level. He's still 24. We are seeing the best version. I think of Jared Goff right now. Now, in the end, does he still play a little bit like Jared Goff? Yes, but I still think he's the best version that he's ever been. And I would expect that to happen with Jane Daniels, but that's interesting that you stick with me. To me, the NFL tape should be more important than anything you've seen before. So I would certainly put him ahead of Caleb now. I'm biased, though. I would still take me ahead of him, too. But I would have moved. I would move Jay in my head because I've just seen enough at this level that some of the stuff you can't even see on tape are so obviously huge positives and are good indicators of a great career, like what he's done in that building, that you believe that he can improve all the on the field stuff in a way that... It's tough even for me to say May over Daniels now, but since you did it, you're giving me the guts to do it, too.

Why I bring up the age thing is that, is it 5% more growth from him, 10% or were I think, and again, these are just odds you're betting on? Or is it May has more room because he was with a terrible coach his last year in North Carolina, hasn't been taught anything. Is there more to tap into here? As opposed to Daniels' last year was with Den Brock and Brian Kelly and the guys that really coached football. So that's why a May or even a Caleb, it's like there's more to tap into here. But I think Daniel and Caleb are much more... I thought there was a difference between them as prospects. Now they're obviously much more equal or Daniel is I'm leading to. Like you said, the NFL type stuff.

I also wanted to talk a little bit about the Bills game. I was glad when I saw a number that helped confirm just my vibes that I talked about on our recap show, which was the Bills felt lucky to be in that game compared to some other games between them, certainly the 2021 divisional round game. I was like, yes, I would have liked to see the Bills win. That's my bias. But I also was like, the Chiefs had one of the highest success rates that they've had passing the ball in a game this year. They had a way higher success rate than the Bills. The Bills fell on six fumbles out of six. Josh was a little all over the place in a way that was part of how his season ended, which I felt like the season ended maybe weeks 13 on, really starting with that Lyons game, which was a great high. And then onward, it was a little up and down, and that performance was up and down. So I didn't feel like they... I felt like the best team on Sunday won, which I like to feel as a fan. I did see you talk a little bit about that fourth down, and you're a former quarterback, and the condensed formation, and spags throwing the blitz at him, and wondering what Josh should have done.

And I thought something was interesting today that came out from one of the offensive linemen who spoke to Tyler Dunn for his sub stack, where he said they've been showing that look to them all game, and they kept not coming. And they basically saved For that moment, basically, they saved to actually go. And that's why the protection slid a certain way and why it ultimately hit so much. What was your view in terms of how Josh Allen handled that, and then the offensive line and everything else in that play?

It's funny is that one of the biggest areas of growth for Josh Allen has been the mental side, and obviously the accuracy and all that. But he's one of the best quarterbacks pre-snap right now, which I think would maybe surprise some people. But he handles as much as the guys that we consider the sheriffs and everything. He changes protections.

He changes- Like Dack, who else?

Dack, Burrow, I guess, would be up there. That's usually the guys that you can... Well, Burrow probably gets the most praise for it, and he does do it. That's why he's great. But Dack is another one. But I say Josh is up there. Mahomes is up there, of course. Mahomes calls freaking... Mahomes is calling the fronts out as he's doing the cadence, which is so absurd to me, but he's bored during regular season. He wants new challenges. You could tell Mahomes does. So, yeah, I know we're talking about Alan and stuff, but those guys are remarkable. Lamar has gotten so much better at it, too. But no, those guys are really good. But anyways, that last play, it was interesting to me in hearing that, I think it was Osian's torrents that said that, that they were showing... They showed that look, but didn't bring the blitz. And then, Spags puts heat on making you do the hard thing on the last play of the game or the high plays of the games. If you remember last year's Super Bowl, the one where Trent McDuffy puts off the slot. That was another one where he hadn't shown it.

What happens in a lot of those got to have it situations is the offensive coordinators get a little cute. There was a five-man protection with Khalil Shaq here in the backfield. Okay, they know he's not pass protecting. And then last year in that Super Bowl, George Kittle's in the backfield. They sent a... It wasn't that exotic, but a fairly exotic blitz. George Kittle is a great blocker. He's not a He's a running back that gets trained in pass protection. And it's not just the physical side, it's the mental side to pick up what's going on there. He just doesn't have the training. So like Spag's on that last play, the bill is often sliding left because that's what they've gotten the whole time. And on it, they should be sliding right. But if they slid right on it and just like, too long, didn't read version, is the little leap of faith. It's really going like, if we do this and we're wrong, we're guaranteeing that Chris Jones might be unblocked or the defensive that ended up dropping might be unblocked. But if we're right, we wad this up and we have all the time in the world.

Everyone's going to kill them if Chris Jones is unblocked on the biggest play of the game. Correct.

But that's what Spags makes you dare. I bet you, Josh Allen in the center, McGovern, have done that look before and have adjusted. I actually know they have because I have a clip against Todd Bowles that I tweeted out from this year, I believe, where he is sliding the protection into that type of blitz to a corner blitz. It's just that once forth down on the road, got to have it. Am I going to do the 501 level thing or am I going to just do one on one, snap the ball, and I'm going to play? And that's what Spag does. He dares you to do it. And Allen, who is so mentally sharp now in the offensive line, they were just dead in the water. Because even if they did slide it right, say four guys, which is probably what they would have done, the corner, McDonald's, would have been free anyways, just because of a number count. If they got the perfect answer, which is sliding all five, which you can do, that is, again, A such an exotic answer to an exotic question that it's like, that's the advanced level test. That's the PhD level in the biggest play of the year.

So it's just that's what they do. That's the stress is those blitzes. And on top of it, the play before they ran cover zero, and they tried to throw It was screen against it, which actually was a good call. Mario Cooper becomes a little bit of a body catcher when he's stressed. So he caught it, takes a second, slips a little, and then George Carlaff is doing a nice play and retraced on it. But I get what Joe braided and the Bales were Bill's were trying to do, they're trying to get everybody out knowing that might be a blitz. You either want to get everybody out, all five guys, and have five guys protecting, or you want all seven in. And then we really block it up. But then if you got all seven in, then they don't blitz, you're wasting blockers. So again, this is the conundrum of specs, and that's why he makes offenses look foolish like this or makes breakdowns turn into giant discussions about everything and awful announcing articles written about your breakdowns.

Oh, my gosh. That poor guy, Ben Solak, just getting killed.

Oh, man. I get why. I get that's a hard answer what he was trying to say, but holy crap. What's everyone doing? A lot of heat coming at him.

Yeah, I think it's just... It's such a complicated sport. It's why I fell in love with the sport, really, when I started to cover it. I loved it, but it takes a few years to realize how little you know. I'm always amazed by... There are people that cover it their whole lives. They still don't realize how little they know. At least I feel like at least I realize how little I know. You're talking about this 501 level stuff, and I find it all fascinating. The sport works at every single level. You can shout about it, you can simplify it. You can also simplify it to the fact that they have Steve Spagnolo, who is one of the best defensive play callers, literally, of all time. To me, now, the resume he is putting up is getting up there with Belichick. One of the reasons he's getting to that level is because he has the luxury. It's not his choice, but it's the luxury. That's all he's doing. He doesn't have to worry about running the team while calling the plays. And the resume he is putting up year after year. The Rams talked about the weight-bearing walls of Cooper Cupp and Aaron Donald and everything.

It's like, the Chief's weight-bearing walls include Steve Spagnolo. It's either three guys or four guys. It's Mahomes reading Spagnola, or it's Mahomes reads Spagnolo. And I'll throw in Chris Jones just because the resume that he's put up over this long as stretch is just incredible. So you can understand all of that. And then a guy like our friend Ben makes a reasonable point on it, but someone sees a little bit of weakness, and they attack because no one wants to be told that they don't understand the game, and they don't want, especially by someone that's my size or Ben's size.

But then it works out. He actually like, nose ball. That's what's-Oh, yes. I just want to say some of the guys is like, Hey, keep the same energy when someone your former NFLPA- Right. That's a great point. How much can I swear on this? Spout out some bullshit and don't even do the work. Keep that same energy for that. That's what I just want to say.

That's it right there because Ben understands it on a deeper level than I do, and obviously not as a deeper level as NFL coaches and players and all that stuff. But you and I know in the media, half the ex-players are barely paying attention and don't really know ball that much anyways. And a lot of them know it at a level that I can't possibly fathom, but there's a spectrum. And some of the people with the biggest outlets and regular jobs are following at the least. So you don't need to go too crazy with respect.

It's just like every field. It's a spectrum. I'm like, some are actually those geniuses. They're incredible and do all that. And I'll say this about it's not every player. A lot of these players, though, and I'm not saying the ones in media, but a lot of players aren't like, I turn on the game, I watch play one to play 60, and I watch every single play through on film on all 22. I had a coach make me a seven-play cut-up. I had a coach make me a twelve-play cut-up. I had my coach make me a five-play cut-up. That was, quote unquote, film watching for a lot of the guys, not everybody. Quarterbacks, obviously, did a lot. But some guys, yes, they every play. They're junkies about it, but some, they just watch some cut-ups, and some even watch that. So it's funny for me to really put their chest down and yelled about it. But no, Chris Jones, I loved your quote when he tweeted me about, I think he had seven pressures in the first half. And I think you said he's probably putting up the resume as maybe the best playoff defender of all time or something that sort.

I don't want to put words in your mouth. I think I said this century. It was more like the total resume. How we measure Tom braided was ultimately about the longevity of it Obviously, Aaron Donald is another level or even Lawrence Taylor. They're a different level, I would say, than Chris Jones. But because he's always in the playoffs, the resume he has put up now and the amount of playoff appearances and how many games he's literally changing the outcome of, I don't know. I don't know who else would be there over the last 25 years. I don't think anyone.

It's him, 2015, Von Miller was a hot year.

Sure, that's what I mean. Chris Jones gets it.

That's what he gets one single season.

He'll I had a couple of games every year like this. Donta Hightower had a ton of moments. He would be my Patriot's choice. Ty Law was incredible for a couple of playoffs.

Not Troy Brown when he played Nickel for you guys? No, that wasn't one of them. How about Mariano Rivera? That's another play. Yes.

The playoff for four of them. Chris Jones says it. This is now what? Six straight playoff.

Seven or six years. Yeah. He is changing. Von Miller had the Rams here, too. So he's another one. Aaron Donald, of course, just because he's Aaron Donald. Because I was a great... I loved you tweeter that, and actually, I meant to talk about it on our pod because I always go along, if you guys can't tell. And I started really just thinking on it, and I was like, Man, I think that's the answer, though, because I was trying to think of someone in the early odds, and no one came to mind. Maybe it was just because I wasn't focused on Patriots defense as much. They're Eagles defenders, maybe Ronde Barber for the box, but that was only a couple in the early odds. You even think about last year was his pressure ended the game in the AFC play-off.

That's right.

He pushed Dawkins back, right?

Right. There's so many where it's just like, if you really look into it, he completely changed the game. I went longer on this part of the show than I expected, but that's just what we do. You did perk up for a second, and I'm going to leave this Bill's section with this. I'm sorry to our producer Eric, who's a diehard Bill's fan here. But rewatching it, it did strike me that the end Alan's season was a little weird. He had more turnover-worthy plays, according to PFF, in this game, I counted it up, than the last 10 weeks combined, which is not what you want. No. You go back to his season, actually, if you think about, I'm trying to go through the games. There was the Patriots game, which was a really weird game the first time around. He did not play well in that game. They almost lost that game. Then he bounced back. He played well against the Jets to end the regular season. He comes in, plays well against the Broncos. Then last week, he was barely there in a way that wasn't his fault, but also didn't happen all season. And I was just like, What is going on here?

Josh Allen was such a small part of this game, and then this game was a little weird. So it was just a little bit of an up and down after what had been an incredible, possibly MVP season. Just ended on a weird note.

I mean, shoot. Was it early December when he had of those games against the Rams and the Lions. It was like, oh, my God. We're not going to see this. He wrapped the MVP up right there. But it felt like in these playoff games, at least last week and this week, it almost was like we were watching Alan from a few years ago, early Allen, where it was like his biggest highlights or his best plays were the big arm throws and him as a runner, except for the QB sneaks. That was incredible. Like Off to the Chief's defense. But anyways. But I think that's where he almost devolved into that. That first drive was worrisome if I were watching it. I know Alan can be streaky early. He always settles in. He's a guy that needs... A lot of quarterbacks are like this, or not a lot, but a chunk more than you would think. They need to get hit once, and then they just go, Okay, I'm good. All right, I got it. It was a little while there. All right, now you get slapped a little bit. And he's like that, and I could tell he was a little juiced up early.

Actually, which reminds me more of the Allen. But the thing is, Allen of this year, and really of last year, too, because I think this year was a continuation of it, has turned into such an all-everything quarterback. Now, I would say the big arm plays and throwing far and the crazy plays out of pocket where he's one yard from the sideline. But his instructure stuff and his accuracy that first month of the season was tremendous until they ran into the Ravens, I think. And then the Texans game was really wonky. But I already talked about the mental side and the blitz side. That's very real. And then also just the accuracy stuff that work from the pocket. He deserves to be up there. I consider one of the elite guys. It's just that sometimes in these moments, he devolves into his, I don't want to say lesser self, but more of his id. He listens to his id. I guess, do you even listen to your id? But I guess that's what he meant.

It works sometimes, too. He has the shutdown drive to tie up the AFC Championship game when he absolutely has to have it in part because of that id. And he made He made a ton of plays. I'm not trying to say he played poorly because he made a ton of plays. He's making it happen with Matt Collins. You're right, the teammates make a big deal. Rewatching that Amari Cooper play hurt me today because I was thinking like, Oh, man, like Shaqir makes that first down, I think right there on that screen. He makes the guy miss, and it's too bad.

Matt Collins with a beautiful dunk, though. That was pretty awesome.

Trusting Matt Collins in a big spot pays off.

Against Trevor Duffy.

We're going to take a quick break. We're going to come back and we're going to talk about the draft. Before we do that, though, I do not want to forget to talk about a show that's coming up next Monday. Nate, you're not going to be able to make it. I don't think you're in Las Vegas, but it's in Los Angeles. It's hosted by our friend Mina Kimes. All the proceeds to it are going to fire relief. Thankfully, we got a ton of rain over the last 24 hours in Los Angeles, which just never have I've been so excited to just see rainfall. First of all, it's been eight months, which is crazy, or 10 months. I don't know where the last time was. Same here in Vegas. But there's a lot of recovering that still needs to happen here in Los Angeles. Every ticket sold to this benefit is going directly to fire disaster relief. Mina is hosting it, but I will be there. Jordan Rodriegue of the Athletic and of NFL Daily, and if he'd the call, she will be there. Some other hosts from The Ringer, the guys that do The Watch who are great.

I think she'll have some other special guests that she's working at. It's at the Belasco Theater. It's in Los Angeles. I try not to ask our listeners for much, but if you're in the LA area and you think you like the show, please come out. Again, it's downtown. It's really cool. They got a beautiful theater. I'm going to be mentioning all week, and we will have Mina on the show tomorrow, actually. We're going to go over all the coaching and everything that's been going on there. We'll talk about the benefit a little bit. Shotty thoughts? Yes. I wanted to mention that. Before we take a break, we'll come back. We'll talk a little bit about the Senior Bowl and the NFL draft. Back on NFL Daily. And yeah, Nate, you mentioned the Shotty shots. We could It's been a while on that. But instead, we're going to break down all the press conferences. There was four on Monday. We're going to break that down on our next show. But Brian Schottenheimer, Liam Cohen, with a very awkward moment, the reference I started the show with. Let's listen. Jacksonville, the community.

Duval. How do we How can we do this together?

Oh, no. It's terrible. I'm going. I was watching that and I'm thinking like, that's the biting kneecaps moment of this coaching cycle. Duval. The facial. It was something about the eyes. There was something about... As I watched it, though, I felt better. I mean, it's just a press conference. It's awkward. You might have felt a little defensive because of everything that happened there. And by the end, I was like, this is a good higher.

You mean the he said, she said, he's sick, she's sick thing that we had going on amongst fan bases?

It was a lot going on. But yes, we'll hit all the coaching stuff on Wednesday show. Are you excited, though, about the Schottheimer era quickly?

Sure. It's a big shrug, which I think is just what I think everybody's reaction to it. I don't know, man. People are trying to ask him a question. He started talking about Barry Switzer, and it was just like, oh, boy, oh, boy, strap in. The William Cohn thing reminds me of a Brett Bielma went to Arkansas. He was my coach at Wisconsin, and they did the Whoop Hicksuey. And you could tell he thought he just had to do it once, and they did it three or four times. And you could tell he's like, Oh, we're doing it again. We're doing it again? But that's what that reminds me of.

It was like you got prepped by the PR guy, but right before it started to say it, and it was the first time doing it, and it didn't quite track, but good luck. I want to see good quarterback talent play well, and we'll get into that more on the next show, but I think Liam Cohen is a good one for Trevor Lawrence. Let's talk quarterbacks to start about this 2025 draft. I preface this by telling our listeners, I'm a basic when it comes to the draft. I'm excited that we have this daily format, and I don't do a lot of draft stuff until now because I'm just in it. I don't have the brainpower that Nate Tice does to do a big board in the middle of October, I went and found.

You're a volunteer.

Yeah, And you're on 4. 0 of your mock draft. You're grinding through these guys. I am excited to go to school and hopefully the listeners will be on this journey with me as we learn about this draft class in particular. And this is really the start of it. So I just thought it'd be fun to have one of my favorite draft minds out there, Nate, you on, because it's Senior Bowl week, and we don't have to be too locked into everything that's going to happen at Senior Bowl week. We're also going to talk about at the end of the week, how it went down. But when you look at this class overall, not as much sizzle, maybe up top because of the quarterbacks, but still an intriguing class. How would you evaluate the overall class in terms of top-schelf talent?

Oh, top-schelf talent?

And where it's strongest at.

Okay, overall, with the quarterbacks, I'll start there. Not I have a great quarterback class overall at the top and depth. I would say Kam Ward is my number one guy. And then Shader Sanders right now is two, but I don't have a true, true first-round grade on him. It's more of like that next tier where I would maybe slot him in. But then after that, it's... I mean, even with Shadr and Kam Ward is dealer's choice and your flavor that you like. I'm bullish on a guy, Raleigh Leonard from Notre Dame. I like a lot of his traits, but the thing is that's bullish in the of like a third round, not like, oh, sneak them into the first. There's guys like Jalen Millereau from Alabama who's a good athlete, measured in today at the Senior Bowl with very small hands, about picket-sized, which is always concerning, but very good athlete, really improved this year.

Austin Echler size or bigger?

8. 5 or 8. 3 quarters.

I love that you had an actual answer for that. Just Tom braided hit Austin Echler with the small hands when he fumbled on Sunday. I I don't know if you- What is that? I-cut that in the broadcast. I was like, damn, Tom, that was tough. He fumbled in a big spot and you got Tom braided talking about your small hands. Okay, Jalen Mill wrote, yeah, he's at the Senior Bowl. Yes. And the rest of the...

Rest of the class. Rest of the class. Again, it's flavors. Jackson Dart from Ole Miss has got some hype right now. He's also at the Senior Bowl. I look at him as an early day three guy right now. Maybe I have to die back in, but it's a lot of those. It's a lot of early day three types. It's like, Oh, I can maybe see him in the third, as opposed to sneaking him up in the first. To me, Kam Ward is the only one I trust from Miami, is the only one I would feel okay taking in the top 15, and I'm sure he might even go top five. But other than that, outside quarterback, it's a really good running back class. Really, really good. At the top and depth-wise, every round, every type, big guys, small guys. Ashton Genti from Boise State is going to get the most hype. He's incredible. Heisman finalist. I have a top great on him, and I feel good about it. If he can go anywhere in the first round, I totally get it. Then you got, shoot, it's going from there. You got from Caleb Johnson from Iowa.

You have the Ohio State runningbacks, Tradeva I got a Trivianne Henderson, who's a really fun guy. I think you're going to really like him because he's really good in pass protection. He's really fast.

He's like a pro. Yes. I mean, my scouting is just watching the NFL National Championship being like, Oh, wow, these guys. They're checking out, okay, they really are They really are going high because they look like guys that would go high. I'm going to stop you. He scored again. Oh, yeah, sorry. At least for now, no, it's good at the quarterbacks because Milrow and Dart are at the Senior Bowl, and so is Riley Leonard. I know you liked Riley Leonard a lot at Duke. Maybe he had a bit of a disappointing year. Milrow seems like he's so physically talented that some team is going to love him, right? Yeah, someone's got to swing out. But you, for instance, were huge on Anthony Richardson. I know they're completely different quarterbacks, but they both had elite traits and are special runners, or at least you can tell me maybe Milrow is not a special runner, if you don't think so, but has special speed certainly.

No, he's a very good athlete. He can fly. He's an excellent athlete. Yeah, the Richardson comparisons keep coming in, but Richardson still has... He's 3 inches taller, 30 pounds heavier and probably runs the same 40 and has a better more lot. I think he's better. I know what this is crazy to say. Richardson's feel in the pocket and everything is way better than Milrow, even though Millrow has improved and everything this year. Richardson always had that. That's why I was always so bullish on him. Still am.

Yeah. And he's very young. I was going to ask you about that because maybe that's why you thought it made sense with the traits that Richardson could go that high because I was with you. He was so good at avoiding sacs, so good at feel in the pocket and even going through his read sometimes. Is Milrow a guy you think in the lead up to the draft could do enough that he gets in that mix? Because from the outside, not knowing enough, he just seems like that guy that's like, Okay, you guys can tell me that he's not a first-round pick now, but he's the guy that usually by the end of the process gets pushed up pretty high. And do you think he should, basically?

I don't think he should, but I think he will. I think his best case is like a Justin Fields. That's more how I picture him than Anthony Richardson. Not really saying the top quarterbacks right now, but that's how I picture him more of. And so to me, he's more of a day two dart throw than a guy I would bump up even in the first round. And I know people want to make the contract stuff and everything. As soon as you put the first round grade or 1-24 next to a quarterback, he's on the field. So I'd much rather take that dart throw on day two. I would say the Bama coaches got... I mean, whoever took that job after saving was going to be under heat no matter what. I thought they did a really good job of streamaligning things for Milro in the sense of like, all right, one, two, go. One, go. And I thought there's that old coaching attitude, if you make a mistake, make it fast. I think Millrow was doing that much better this year. I wanted him to stay another year or figure it out how to do it, but he's entering the draft, so we'll see.

Yeah, and he'll be in Still, so he'll get a lot of attention. This week, Jackson darts a guy who played in a wonky offense a little bit at Ole Miss, bombs away. That people that are fans of teams that need quarterbacks this offseason and are just annoyed that they weren't in the draft last year. And they're looking at this free agent class, and I'm just adding up the teams. And there's just not many good options possibly I think Matthew Stafford is probably the bell of the ball because I think there's going to be a sense that he's available, and we'll see. But then there's Darnold, and it's Russ and Fields after that. It's pretty slim pickings, and it's slim pickings in the draft. And yet there's about seven teams that are going to be looking at quarterbacks in the draft. And so, man, some of those fan bases are out there. They're talking themselves into like, Jackson Dart could be our dude. I know. What do you think? What are his pluses and minuses? And if there's a quarterback maybe that is there in Mobile that you think might have a week there to keep an eye on.

Yeah, with Dart, he has tools, he has traits. He put up production as a runner and thrower. The thing with that link, if an offense is a Ole Miss, it's a money play offense. And so it's like, I watched Matt Corral just do the exact same thing a couple of years ago. I feel like I'm having the conversation all over again. But with him, But with dart is that I don't know, I've never gotten there with his feel for playing the position. I think he does throw a nice ball, and I do think he can make some nice plays. It always just was a hair late to me. Okay, it's open. Okay, now there's the throw, as opposed to anticipating the throw. I've also just seen end game situations where he's not even making the right read, and maybe it's like stress, it stresses him out, which scares me with a guy, especially if you're saying first round. He might have a week. This is the perfect type of week. He also has to show that he can grasp a... Wayne Kiffin has a quote unquote NFL offense, but it's more about terminology. But as far as the depth of the playbook is probably not there at all miss.

And I maybe want to see him, how quickly he grasps his stuff, how quickly he can do one to 2-3, as opposed to it's a lot of one and done because like, if it goes this MF is going to be wide open, you better throw it, as opposed to like, okay, you got to progress through this. So I have hesitations with him. I see him getting a lot of hype, too. But again, you guys stick to what the grade is not like, oh, there's somebody's got to rise up. It's like, no, no, no. If you have a bunch of third, fourth round grades, that means they're third, fourth rounders. It doesn't mean they have to get bumped up just because they're QB3 or QB4 by default. So He's one I'm always teparing. And I would say, again, Leonard is the guy that maybe has a good week, but I think he's panged up after that college football playoff. He waited- It was like a week ago.

It is crazy that- He waited 2: 10 today, so he's probably worn I think he's like 2: 25 normally. That's brutal to go immediately from the national championship into the senior ball, into the entire draft process, into your NFL season. It already seems like a brutal process. But for him and Will Howard, who knows?

Yeah, Will Howard.

Who is also there? Who do you think the highest drafted player there is in Mobile, potentially? Some options, Shauna, Marstewart is there who is an edge player. Arman Mimbou, I believe from Missouri. I couldn't believeYeah, Offuttaliman. I've been following it enough that I was surprised when my friend of me, Daniel Jeremiah put him 11th in his mock draft. That's a tackle from Missouri that maybe is rising lately.

Me and Charles had him in our first round and people got mad at us. Then all of a sudden, DJ bumps him up to 11th and everyone's like, oh, oh, oh, oh, Hey, I got to check him out. That's okay. I had him go to the Chiefs at like 30 or whatever it was that week, and everyone freak the F out on us. Who the hell is this guy?

It shows you're onto something. This happens. Jeremiah, he doesn't throw that in there in a vacuum because it's a mock. It's not his top 50. He hasn't released that yet. It's him talking to the rest of the league and being like, Hey, this is going to make me look smart in April because this dude is going to be the dude. I showed that I I knew my stuff.

That's exactly it. No, there's some real good offensive linemen there. Josh Connolly from Oregon and Boo, you just brought up. And why am I... There's another tackle that might be a guard. And for some reason, I don't have it written down right now in front of me. And then they got Jonas Salvinia from Arizona, who's a guard that might sneak into the first round. Wyatt Milliam, he's a tackle from West Virginia. I think he's a guard. But it's actually It's an interesting offensive line class. There is offensive line depth. It's just not those... There's no freaky tackles. I really like Will Campbell from LCO. He's not at the Senior Bowl, but people are like, Oh, he's a guard. I think he can stick out the tackle. But it's a lot... I actually want the Patriots to draft him, by the way. But I think this offensive line class and the tackles, it's a lot of like, Is he a guard or is he a tackle? Is he good enough? He's a good athlete. Is he strong enough? Oh, he's strong enough. There's a lot of just tweener types that's like, This guy's a starter. I just don't know which position he's starting at and if he's a Pro Bowl starter or just a solid starter.

But I think it's really going to be a big time eye of the beholder offensive line class. I think people are going to hit. People are going to find some Pro Bowlers in this class I really do think that late first, early second types, but it's just got to be the right fit for all these guys.

Maybe not a good one to be looking desperately for a tackle at number four overall just because it's so deep. Maybe you can go to a different position there. I I will be sad if Travis Hunter is as exciting in the pros as he is that they won that stupid game against the Bills' backup. Because if they were one overall, if you had If you had the first overall pick and you were, let's say, the Patriots who didn't need a quarterback but can basically use someone anywhere else, where would you go?

Well, first off, I would try to convince everybody that Kam the greatest quarterback they've ever seen in their life.

Assuming that doesn't happen.

Assuming that doesn't happen. Assuming that doesn't happen. Assuming that doesn't happen. I would go... Man, because this is really hard, too, because it's not... I would go offensive line because I just do... I would go trenches. That's my first answer. And to me, it's like, all right, is it Abdul Carter? Is it Will Campbell? And Carter, I think, is a better player. I don't think people are throwing out generational with him. It's like, come on, guys, chill. But he's a very good prospect. But it'sDo the Patriots need that? Do they absolutely need that?

Forget even the Patriots. Think of it as a generic team because yes, the new GM makes the comment that they don't want to pass on a generational talent at one indicating, Hey, we're not going to just take a quarterback just to make it. Everyone is like, he must mean Travis Hunter. Then everyone else is like, no, actually, he means Abdul Carter, the interior rusher.

I'm always trenches first, but I have Travis Hunter as one on my board. That's what's That's what's hard, too. If you're going best player, we do not care the position. It's truly BPA. I would say Travis Hunter. But if I- Where do you play him?

What does he do? Corner.

He's a corner, but he's a special corner. He has Top all pro, first team every year type upside. He's not that big, too, size-wise. That's the only thing about playing both ways in the NFL I'm a little scared about. I think he's a corner full-time and a receiver four that you play for 8-12 plays a game. I I just think that's what they try to use him at Colorado. He is so raw as a receiver. I feel like he only knows a quarter of the playbook, which I understand playing both sides is really hard full-time, physically and mentally. I think it only gets harder in the NFL. So you keep that package real small and then you keep I let him just be dominant at corner. I thought the guard, by the way, is Marcus Mimbau from Purdue, who I like as well. Nice. That's the other guy, sorry.

Then when you look at- Abduel Carter, if I'm going in trenches, it's Abdul Carter.

So it's from Penn State.

So Where else do you think the draft is weak and most strong? Because I cut you off. You said the running backs deep throughout, great at the top. Why Wide receiver doesn't seem like it's as flashy a class as the last few. It's okay. Where do you think the class is at its best?

Tight end is the other position. Running back and tight-end is where my eyes go, and then defense line, defense tackle and edge. Those are probably the three top spots. Starting on offense, I brought some of the runningbacks, but tight end-wise, I see at least two going in the first round. That I wouldn't be shocked if maybe even another guy sneaks in there. But Tyler Warren from Penn State is a freak. It looks like a three down Y. That's also explosive. I've seen Kittle comparisons. That's pretty extreme to me, but it's not totally out of the park. Out of whack to compare Kittle to that, which is that, but that's the high, high, high and upside. I think DJ had him in the top 10.

Dj had him going seventh, which I was like, Is that the Brock Bauer's effect? Not that he's BrockBauers or even the same player. But it's funny because you look at last year's draft and all that, supposedly the Rams wanted to trade up for Brock Bauer. Everyone wanted Brock Bauer. It was like Mahomes back in the day after the fact everyone wanted to be... Although I think it was That's incredible. They really did want Brock Bauer. And you look at it and the Raiders settled for him because they didn't get a quarterback and thought, wow, that's high for a tight end. And now you think like, no, that's not too high for a tight end. Anyone that's a difference maker, it's the same thing as the Jamir Gives argument, except it maybe even more valuable position. So you could see Tyler Warren, especially in this class, going higher.

Well, and Warren, too, is a true in-line why. He lines up all over. He's Wildcat quarterback sometimes, but he can play in-line. Bowers is a slot receiver/titend, while Warren is truly a tight end. And I think that's a difference as well. And this is a big philosophy I have with team building. That's why I even said I would go trenches first. I'm always big about how many plays you impact. And that's why I'm always offensive line first, edges first, before I get to receivers and corners and everything. It's because I think if you're drafting a guard, oh, man, guard, really? He's on the field every single play, and he's going to have something to do that impacts the play 80 % of the time, 75 % of the time. While if I draft a receiver in the top 10 and we're a bad team, four plays, 12 plays tops, that they truly can impact it early. Maybe they learn other things that can help out their craft. So that's why a guy like Warren in this type of draft class that doesn't have a ton of blue chippers, it's going to be a big eye of the beholder type draft.

Just take them. It's He's BPA. He can stay on the field because he can block for 40 plus snaps. And that's why I think it's like, all right, well, that's a difference tight end than a guy that might be receiving only, a guy that's only out there for 25 snaps or has to be hidden in the run game. Those things really matter.

Well, or even more than a wide receiver. I present to you the Rob Gronkowski era Patriot. It's not that you're going to find Gronk probably in the draft, but you have a hard time telling me that there were many wide receivers more valuable on a down to down basis, changing what the defenses had to do than him. That's obviously the dream.

He's another one. He's getting a guy. Afterwards, everybody wanted Grok. Everybody. Oh, at least three coaches I've heard over the years, now I'm in a conversation I've been a part of, have gone. Well, he was my one. When we did our draft grades, there was one guy we had to go for each position that was the gold guy. And Grok, we were trying to come up with a different grade because he was better than gold. I was like, Well, why didn't you draft him then?

The back injuries. Oh, the back. Also, he was monosyllabic. I was there at his Combined press conference. I never go to the players' ones anymore. I don't stay that deep into the week. We actually haven't gone in a while, but I am going this year, and I hope to see you there, Nate. I'm excited for that. But I was there for a grongs press conference, and it was funny. I mean, he could barely speak English. You're like, What is happening here? They're just like, Yeah, this guy with the back surgeries, but man, is he talented? Good pick.

I'm just always curious that he was from Jersey and PA, and he went to Arizona. If he had probably asked him, he probably had a great official visit. It was warm. It was warm.

That's why I went to Tulane. Last player I'm going to ask you about is someone you wrote about that you liked a lot, and just his profile and what I've seen from him gets me excited. Do you think Jalen Walker goes maybe a little higher in this draft because of the Zack Bond impact? Is there any Zack Bond similarities just in terms of maybe what he could do at the next level? And is everyone going to be looking for their own Zack Bond? I feel like off-ball linebackers are back to being cool again. We're going back to the '80s, like off-ball linebackers and running heads. We're back.

I love this. We just need more full cage facemasks, maybe some neck rolls. It would be good. No, I love Jalen Walker. I think he's actually probably one of my favorite players in the whole draft class. I put him in my top 10 midseason. Even before the season, I had him in my top 20, and I was just like, all this guy does is make plays. And George is so annoying to watch as far as an evaluator because they rotate their guys so much. They run like 500 different fronts, and it's just showing off. So they can go to coaching clinics and just go like, look at this play that we ran twice the entire year. They just love doing that. And so watching Walker, it's like, All right, are you an edge? Are you off-ball? Are you I just want them in my front seven. And I'm glad you brought up Zack Bond. That's a great comparison. I mean, there's a whole bunch of these guys right now. Van der Esch for the Vikings. What other Wisconsin Badge is his name? Leo Chanel. Well, just name a Badger. But all these guys-Van Gincal, you mean?

Not Van der Esch. What do I say? Van Der Esch. Van der Esch.

Van Ginkle. Andrew Van Ginkle, not Leighton Van Der Esch. My bad. Avg.

They all look the same.

Yeah, right? Three Yeah, my bad there. But no, these guys, I think that's more of a... We see it with defensive linemen where it's like, oh, this guy's an outside linebacker. But when we go to Nickel, they're a defensive end, which now we just call Edge. And I think that the bond thing, what you see is, oh, this guy's got pass rushing ability. So let's use them on simulated. Let's use them on blitzes, creepers. And you're just, okay, we're still only rushing four, but the guy that's got pass rushing chops is now rushing the passer against a guard. And then now we're dropping one of those outside linebackers. We see the Rams do this all the time, dropping one of those outside linebackers into coverage. And you're just inverting the roles. So when you get a guy like Bond, who actually has some coverage shops, is good against the run, it's one of these guys. It's like, So this is what you should have been the whole time. When they do come on these creepers and simulators and blitzes, they're still a weapon and everything. So I really like him with the Cardinals. That's been my like, I like you there.

But really, any creative defense that you can I would like Walker on it. But again, like I said, when this type of draft class without true blue chippers, he to me is a blue chipper. It's just I don't know what position he's at. But I just think he's one of the best players, the top 10 player. So I think he should go high.

Yeah, I always get a little worried about those type of guys, Isiah Simmons, right? But the Cardinals, the Cardinals would know what to do with them. Your funky favorite tape grinders, coaching staff, the Arizona Cardinals. They came through for you. Both you and Jordan were pretty excited about them coming into the season. And I know it didn't end well. Go away there. It was up and down. But I think if you look at it, the total view, ultimately, they took a nice step forward for you.

Yeah, they did. Now I got to study Kyler, too. Kyler becomes one of the most an enigma as far as studying-wise, because it's just like, he's one game, he looks, I'm like, Oh, wow. No wonder you were an MVP candidate that year. And in some games, it's like, Oh, man, Kyler, what are you doing, man? Maybe year three with this coaching staff is going to be another leap for it, which I'm excited about.

I'm looking forward to it. I am looking forward to the build up to the draft, the whole process. We got free agency coming up. Really, the end of the conference, championships, even though I'm really excited for the Super Bowl, I'm excited to go to New Orleans, and next week is going to be all about that. We're going to have lots of great guests. I do feel like today, as we're taping this, it almost feels the first day of the offseason because there's literally one more game, and they're doing... There's a whole, as Ian Rappaport said on Twitter, there's a whole parallel NFL that is going on right now in Mobile, and they I think I've moved on to 2025. We're coming up on the week where Matthew Stafford and Kirk Cousins are both quietly talking to other teams. And then next week is the week that they actually join those teams. So it is coming around the corner, and we're going to be it all on NFL Daily. You stepped up in a big way, Thais, this year. You did it. Football 301, you got your own show. You were on NFL Network on Good Morning Football.

Here and there, you were on Bomani Jones' show, all I love it. You're writing a lot. You're a draft expert. I really recommend everyone go check out football 301 and subscribe. I'm always really impressed, Nate, when you guys do an abbreviated recap show and you'll cover a big game and you do it in four minutes, and then you just move on to the next game. I'm like, Wow, you can do that? That's amazing.

Good job. That's my own lack of hosting ability.

No, it's really not.

You're concise. Remember to make a mistake. If you make a mistake, make it fast. Just do quick. Just get through it.

Very well said. It's like you hit these really key points and you'll move on. You've killed it. I'll continue to check it out, and I'll continue to bug you during the whole draft process. That's it for today's show. Thank you, Nate. Play the music. Thanks, Frank. Like I said, we will be back. It's a big show. It'll come out early Wednesday morning. We got Mina Kimes, we got Jordan Rodrieg, we got Colleen Wolf. We're going to go through all the coaching, hirings, and the coordinators, a lot of weird stuff, the press conferences. And yes, when we're talking senior ball, you know football is back. We'll see you Wednesday.