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Hey, team Virgil. Here we are. Oh, God, we just recorded a fantastic episode, including there's some chat about the complete B.S. that happened with the Senate parliamentarian and why you're not getting the fifty dollar minimum wage, probably. Oh, man. This is a sad way to open a promo.


Look, we we ask the tough questions, and I want to give a lot of credit to Roxana for submitting himself to this interview and interviews like this, because we went in, we didn't pull punches and I think you'll enjoy it.


Yeah. Also, we should say that the is progressive. Congressman Locana represents Silicon Valley. Here is a clip from that interview. A lot of fascinating conversation, not just about policy, Congressional Progressive Caucus, but about, you know, what he actually believes about socialism and the economy. We went to a very smart place with this one. Here's a clip. If you want to listen to the entire episode, you can go to Patrón Dotcom, such bad faith podcast.


Join the Faithless. I'm sorry, faithful, whatever you want to call it, join the faithful for five dollars a month. Unlock this and our entire premium episode library.


So enjoy shifting gears here. The number of socialists in the United States Congress today is higher than it has ever been in the history of this country. Is that true? Yes, that is. That is true.


You in 20, 20 endorsed the socialist for president. Are you a socialist?


No. No, I'm not. I call myself a progressive capitalist, but I. I don't think Bernie is a socialist either. I think Bernie is more a social Democrat, but is obviously affiliated. I view him as a Scandinavian in the Scandinavian model.


That's a democratic socialist. What about the label socialist? Do you feel like presents a break with what your personal ideology is? Why aren't you a socialist?


That's a great question. I you know, I don't think the government should run Apple Computers or ExxonMobil station. I mean, I don't think the government should own the means of production and an economy.


Should the should the workers should the workers of Apple Computer run Apple computers? I think the workers should be represented by corporate boards. I think the workers should have more protections and more of a say. But I don't I don't believe that there has to be always collective ownership of all of the means of production, because I think that that doesn't allow for people to go out and invent new things and defy collective judgment. So I come out where sort of a market is, which is a progressive economist.


And he says, look, markets are necessary in his view, but we need to have markets well regulated and we have to have fundamental investments in education and health care. So everyone has a chance, chance to do it.


But the markets in your mind, the markets still have to be determinant here. They still have to be at the core of what's driving the major economic decisions.


Well, I don't at any time you have a transaction that's a market. Right. So the question is, do we have we had rigged markets where there's been rent seeking behavior. Yes. Where people have tried, but where you haven't had fairness of the workers have been exploited. Financial industries have taken have exploited the system, as we just saw recently with the GameStop. But I do believe in markets that are well functioning and well functioning, well regulated, free free enterprise with investment in people having the right to education.


Health care is probably where I where I come out.


There is a concept of market socialism. I don't think that anyone seriously believing in the idea of socialized economy or planned economy is categorically opposed to the use of markets to do certain things like set prices and manage supply and demand, you know, things of that nature. But you mentioned rent seeking, which in my mind inheres to the capitalist system.


What is the non rent seeking aspect of market capitalism?


Well, production, I mean I mean, you have people who are making things and inventing things and creating value. I mean, I don't think every economic activity is just trying to compete for your share of the pie. I think there are a lot of people who are entrepreneurs or business leaders who are doing things that are adding value. And as simple as writing a book or producing a movie or producing a podcast or producing a car, I mean, I think that there is a lot of productive activity.


Unfortunately, there's also a lot of non-productive activity where people may be just trying to take the pie and get their share of it. And that's what I would describe as rent seeking.


Of course, my theory I mean, economists have written about that, but isn't that rent seeking, that profit motive, precisely what it's supposed to create value in a capitalist system?


No, I think it's supposed to create value. I don't have a problem with the profit motive. If someone creates a brilliant book or someone writes a brilliant manual, Miranda makes Hamilton has no problem with that.


But I'm a communist now.


It and it just made me go full. Just kidding. Yeah, so, you know, I don't have a problem with the attacks of Bernie Sanders, you millions of dollars in your books, I had no problem with that I thought was ridiculous. So I don't have a problem with productive value adding. And then the question becomes, well, how do you distinguish between what is productive value adding and and what is rent seeking? And obviously there's a level of judgment, but I think most Americans would agree that there's a lot of activity in our economy right now that isn't productive value added or that is exploitive of working and middle class Americans.


And that's what needs to be fixed from now on.


You know, that is the Hamilton defensive comment, if you'd like to hear more. Remember, you can subscribe at Patrón dot com slash Bad Faith podcast for five dollars a month to get our full back catalog of episodes with some sweet, sweet stuff, including this one, including including including and especially this one, if you like, that if you didn't like this, Walther's better keep the faith. Keep the faith.