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If you don't want to look like a complete and total Agapa, take off the plastic shrink wrap from your rod handles before you fish with them when you see the fish and are ready to make your final presentation. Don't jump up and down in the air. If one of my boys in Louisiana threw a coin some gumbo, I'd be like, Oh, that looks delicious. Like spicy picante in a very roundabout way. SMALLMOUTH share some of their taxonomic history with one of the greatest blaxploitation films in history.


Good morning to generate. Welcome to the fishing podcast that still, even after all these years of doing it, gets a case of the bubble guts when it sees a vague trailing surface to stud redfish cruising a flat, a wide headed trout sipping in the seam or a pop culture reference.


Only a small amount of weirdoes like us actually get Somali a miles Nalty.


And and to everyone out there listening, I'm going to I'm going to give you an admission like straight up. I am not the smoothest, the smoothest guy on the water or or anywhere, really. But I'm I'm especially prone to losing my shit when it comes to site fishing. That is true. And that's totally understandable, though, right?


Yeah, but I feel like I'm not supposed to say that. Like, I feel like, you know, as fishing industry professionals, we're supposed to pretend that we're like these super hardcore bad ass fish.


Slayer's Dolemite is my name and hang up my game.


But I'm not I'm I'm certainly no Rudy Ray Moore. And for those of you who caught that reference, more to come later in the show.


Straight up, though, straight up. When it comes to fishing, big fish, I still I totally get the yips, dude.


I still get them still happened. Yeah, man. I mean, so do I. But I found that I like my level of choke directly correlates to the number of shots. Right. It's like a math problem.


OK, so take the the average of shots times. How many days do I have to enjoy this fishery. And then you get like the square root of how badly I'll shit the bed, you know.


And then if you add in the variable of there's a video camera and this is important, the bad shooting percentage rate increases by PI, you know. Yeah.


Yeah. No, I think I think your math works out there. Sure. But Right. Yeah.


But like dude I mean I think to have some real talk on this for me, there are particular problem species, right.


The ones that some of the ones that are supposed to be really hard, I don't have like Florida permit. No problem.


Not that they're easy fish, not they're easy fish, but I don't choke and I have a good track record of presenting well to them and catching them.


I don't know why I know people with permit tattoos that haven't hooked one yet think they have the tattoo of the permit and haven't another one.


Maybe that's the problem. There you go. Putting the cart before the horse there. Exactly.


But like, dude, Hawaii Bonefish. One example, total Achilles heel for me and for people who don't know about that fishery. Hawaii does have Bonefish and they're quite large is Bonefish goes and they get a ton of pressure, not just from recreational anglers, but like people trying to kill them and like homeless people trying to net them like they live a life of pure terror.


So they're always neurotic and and they come up into these very shallow sand flats to feed on shrimp and crabs when the tides are right and you can stock them on foot.


And it's all side fishing. But you can see the fish, you can see their backs, you can see their tails and their dorsal fins and you watch them feeding.


And so when you screwed up, you have no one to blame but yourself. Right. And and I'm not exaggerating.


When I said I've had days where I blew fifty shots in a row, like fifty opportunities at feeding fish in one single tide without even getting one fish to eat. It's a lot like I get I get done with a session like that and I'm like, have I wasted my life?


Like where did I go wrong? Like I've spent all these years fishing and I still suck this bad at it. It it gets to me to Hawaii bones definitely on the bucket list.


I know a lot of people who who have gone to chase that dream, but I've never been there. Right. So I can't really speak to that. All my boning has been done in the Bahamas and Turks and Caicos. And that's a prime example to me of my math equation. You're never really are usually, I should say, in Bonefish places for a day like you don't just end up in Bimini or Abaco for a day.


So you've got time. So even if you have one tough day, assuming you don't have, like, you know, awful weather for your entire trip, strong chance, you're going to get at least one good day out of it.


But in recent memory, if I'm being totally honest, my last bout of total site fishing suck was actually with you.


You took me to a Spring Creek in Montana last winter. And it was it was one of those days where it's like, OK, it's Big Brown, right?


There is an eight inches of water. You're going to sneak around this way and mine your shadow and nail the drift with a with a nymph and a ten foot later on the first cast.


Like, that's not it's not happening that I can't handle that. And I didn't handle that.


I caught nothing that day that I remember you catching at least one fish that you're being very nice.


But I lost one because when you walked away and I took the Ninfa off and put a giant woolly bugger on, I'm like, you're going to you're going to eat.


And it did. And I snapped it off and that was it. I baby, I'm giving you more credit. My memory, I don't know. But to be fair like that, that is that is that Krieg's tough and I had home field advantage. I fister sure.


But but then so like another another example of me blow. And yet on particular species like last summer, we were filming Doszpot in Minnesota. Right.


And and we're working on the Buffalo episode for those who saw that calendar. And we would target Buffalo in the morning and then the wind would come up in the buffalo, disappear. So we had the rest of the day to fish for other species. Yeah. And I, of course, would end up musky fishing, even though it was middle of the midsummer because I have a problem. So I was thrown one of those like giant defiant swim baits that Oliver and I loves and it has turned me on to and the lake we're on is crystal clear, like 10 feet of visibility.


So I can see the bait the whole time. I'm watching it and I'm tracking it and I'm walking along this edge and I can see it.


And then there's this big, like three foot long flash, which, to be clear, if I'm being honest, that's not a big, musky, but still a three foot flat. That's a big flash. Gets your heart rate up. Yeah. And and I see this fish coming. It's all lit up. It's chargin lure. It's not a follower. This fish is serious. It wants to eat. And I just have to just keep doing what I'm doing.


And it's going to eat.


And I see it and I stop.


I'm like the the cardinal rule that everybody knows and must be fishing. The one thing you never do is stop your lure.


And I know that, like, I'm fully aware of that. Yeah, I have told that to other people, but that's exactly what I did.


And, you know, of course, the fish is like I'm not interested in it left and I totally blew it. Got done. No more shut.


I've done that. I've I have done that very same thing with muskies several times because it's such a hard thing. And then you finally see what it takes your breath away and you gave at it you become a gapper to as your nickname. That is my nickname.




I tell you what I have I have never actually caught a Muskie in a figure eight in my life because I've botched pretty much all my figure eight opportunities and just Zade when I should have zagged because I got one, I got one, but it was like twenty four inches so I didn't really get like the heart pumping, you know, that's, that's neither here nor there.


But the point is that as soon as you see it like now that I'm seeing it, I will screw it up. Right. So I've never got one of the eight, the handful of muskies. I've caught a way out and like, you know, three turns and hammered it like a bluefish fifty feet out.


And those are great. I like those muskies, you know, but then I think about it.


What makes site fishing goofs even more likely is when you have somebody watching you, which is fairly common.


If you're on a guided trip, you're out of town like a good chance. Somebody's breathing down your neck. And then because then you it's instant Monday morning quarterbacking and that's the shit I. Oh, man. You know, you stopped and if you stopped it. Oh man. I would have kept that fly moving or my favorite.


This is my favorite one. Right. Oh man.


If you just had a couple more feet between the fish and the boat head of eight that you know.


So you have that one. Yeah. A couple more feet. Anyway, I told you it wasn't your fault.


Physics anyway. Good night. Fishermen keep level heads and our friend and guide Alvin Dedeaux certainly keeps his head level.


He's a very even keeled guy. He is. He's very he's very on the level. He's mellow. Yeah.


He's also no stranger to site fishing. So we brought him back for our Smooth Moves segment, where we call up guides, outfitters captains and sometimes even shop jockeys. Anyone who makes a living helping other people catch fish, really.


And we asked them to tell us ridiculous or hilarious or idiotic stories about things that clients do.


And wouldn't you know it? Alvin has a story that will get more of your Monday morning site cast and quarterback saying, well played, bro. Good job.


So why did you do that?


Terry might be one of my favorite smooth moves that I witness quite often on the boat, on the skiff. Fishing for Talin redfish in shallow water, very skittish fish, and it's one of those kind of games where you got to go from zero to 100 at the blink of an eye. So we're cruising around. We're looking for fish, looking for fish. No fish, no fish. Nope, no fish.


I've said there's a fish. Sixty feet, one o'clock. OK, hang on, we're going to get a little bit closer, we can a little bit closer. OK, you could put a cast out there and then the move is the body pump where OK, we're trying to sneak up on this fish in like eight inches of water.


They can feel every vibration from a mile away. And all we got to do is ease up on them in the skiff. I'm pushing it as quietly as I can, try not to spook them. And right before my client makes the cast, he's got to do a little hop the body pump. You kind of jump up in the air a little bit and then come down. Don't ever take your feet off the ground.


It's just like a little light compression move. And it's awesome because what happens is it sends the pressure wave through the hull of the boat all the way up to the fish. And before the fly even hits the water, the fish is gone. And I'm looking for another fish.


So, yeah, the body pump classiness.


You see this happen all the time, Alvin, like a lot of people sort of subconsciously do the body pump in that situation.


Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's a weird thing.


I mean, I don't do it, but it's just because I've seen it happen so many times, it's like burned into my mind. Like when you see the fish and are ready to make your final presentation, don't jump up and down in the air.


I've never I've never thought about it. But now I'm thinking back and I'm like, oh, God, I probably do the body pump. Like, I probably do that. There's some variations on the body pump, you know, like the two step or the three step.


You know, the pat, pat, pat or the the little the little like tap dance of excitement. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a variation.


I mean, just think about it, you know, Twinkletoes, I'm just curious, you know, double tap, triple tap to step.


It's a move with a lot of names, but they all have the same result, a spooked fish.


Oh, yeah, I've done that, I've body pumped, I probably, too, stepped out. I don't know. I've I've probably three steps.


I, I think that probably that might have been what cost me this tapin that I blew it on after I flew all the way to Cuba to catch one. Oh. And that's the worst. Right. Like that is the absolute worst when you screw up on a destination fishing trip.


I flew all the way overseas in a middle seat. Well, get over here, though.


And for me, that's when the self-loathing comes out from a to be again, from an honesty day for me. Like I if I blow it on a nice trout somewhere close to home, I can I can shake that off. I can forget about that one. I'm on I'm on to the next. There'll be another one. That's fine. I can do this tomorrow. But on the road, like, I've not just let myself down now, I've let a guide down to oh yeah, and having been good, like I know your guy is going to say, oh, don't worry about it, we'll find another one.


Right. Because that's what guys do, that they're professionals. That's a job.


But but that guy actually thinks, God, this guy sucks. Oh yeah. And like, oh yeah.


The guy takes your failure personally and then pretty much hates you. That's just the truth. That's how it goes. And I know it. Yeah.


And no matter what love, whether you're with a guy or by yourself, I found over the years in insight casting scenarios, at least for me personally, like you have to nail the first one or two shots. Like if you execute and get those first one or two, it just sets you up for success, then it's fine. Everything else is great that that gets the confidence way up.


And I tend to be more on it for the entire rest of the day. But the more you screw up early on, the more you miss on those first couple of shots, I think the more likely it is you'll keep screwing up.


Right. And then that's that's that's why you got to keep your cool from the outset. Your channel, your inner Andre 3000 and out.


I don't think I have an inner Andre 9000.


No, I know. I think I have more like an inner rivers Cuomo.


And this feels like a good time for us to bring in this week's awkward moments in England, it seems like a good time for that. Let's do that.


Why don't you take a picture? It'll last longer.


Who are we slapping on the awkward moments and angle and chopping block this week, the chopping block in which the blood of our last victim, Alex Reid, is still trying in the wood grain.


The answer would be Sturbridge.


Give me the answer. Hey, man, come on. I like it.


I like it. I'm not I'm not giving you a hard time, OK? All right.


Well, the answer would be Mr. John, I'm going to say Brower, but it could be Brewer because there's elements of his name that could go brow or brew. So one of those to you have you have an opinion on that?


I'm going with Burgess because I like the idea of him being, you know. Oh, Brewer.


But that's all, John, no matter who you are, you're John Brewer for the rest of this. Anyway, John sent us his photo along with these opening lines in the email.


He says, here's a pic from a few years ago that is objectively pretty silly, but I'm still slightly proud of OK, which is a slightly weird.


And the way I see it, its inclusion here on this segment, John, will either make you more proud of it or possibly less, because you've given us so much to talk about with this image. And we we've kind of had a habit of starting like with the Attiya or these this scenario in awkward moments.


And we sort of like end up coming around to the fish at some point.


But this time we're going to start with the fish, because initially I couldn't find the fish.


Wait, there's a fish tank? Yes, there's a fish. Of course there's a fish. We know there's a fish. But the before we talk about that fish, I just want to say, man, I love this photo.


It's a good one so much. It's a good way. Like, if I were to describe this photo, it would be just like pure, unfiltered, unpolished, no ego, no bullshit fishing. Joy, you're right. When I see this photo, that's what I see. I see someone who is, like, transcended all the B.S. about taking photos. It's like, oh, my God, I'm having the greatest day fishing.


John. It was like it's like it's still pretty positive, still pretty positive.


He's just like in this photo, he just he radiates everything that is good about fishing, you know, setting aside the fact that in order to find the actual fish in the picture, I had to do that like squid and refocussed that we all developed with the magic. I had three picture books. We were kids. Oh, definitely. Get in there.


You and I did. Some of our younger listeners would be like, what's a magic eye? But there there is, in fact, fish.


It's an extremely tiny trout. OK, and while John didn't specify the species, I'm thinking micro cutey. It's a mountain. The setting could could be a micro brooky, like a main setting. It's really it's hard to call. OK, but according to John, it was worthy of photo documentation because it was his first wild fish. And by that I assume he means his first wild trout caught on the fly. And you know what? Like Bravo, there's nothing wrong with that.


Props for that. And we all star judgment. Yeah, no judgment.


And my money is on Cuddy got Brooky just from what I can see. But it's hard to tell. And it's not only hard, Doug is the fish is like, really, truly. I mean, if you guys do this, you'll see, like, tiny, tiny, but also because whoever took this photo was standing like 10 feet away. Mm hmm. Which is, you know, good depth of field.


The background is gorgeous, but it's not so good if you're if you get like a macro subject you're trying to capture.


Also, we got to talk about the hold in this or like whatever that is. I don't even know if we can call it a hold.


So John's got his fly rod in his right hand.


And I got to insert a quick tip here. If you don't want to look like a complete and total Agapa, all of you out there take off the plastic shrink wrap from your rod handles before you fish with them.


This is like a basic thing that we should all know. And if you don't know, hey, maybe no one's told you, but now you have no excuse.


Take it off before you fish. Anyway, that's a pet peeve of mine. Like, I see that. And I've had people say, like, well, I do that to keep the cork nice.


Like, now I have to take that off. Take it off.


Just the cork feels good in your hands. Plastic feels terrible anyway. So he's got his shrink wrapped around in his right hand and then he's like he's also holding his leader in that hand.


But then further down, the leader with his other hand, he's like way up in the air, holding further down the leader. And I just don't get it. He's like way above his head, holding that leader from which the fish is dangling. And I don't understand. I can't see why anyone would hold their fish that way.


Yeah, like, yeah, he's got his one hand extended way up and this tiny dangler is hanging right in front of his screaming yellow life jacket the John's wearing.


So basically, if you just like doing a quick glance, it looks like John was I photographed in the middle of doing the YMCA while holding a flyer because you can't see the fish.


You have to hunt for it. Unfortunately, though, right, the fish is kind of the least of John's offenses, OK, because perched atop John's like Napoleon Dynamite, hair is some cross between a cowboy hat and like a Crocodile Dundee hat. All right. It appears to be hair. Yeah, it's Crocodile Dundee. Yeah, it appears to be made of felt. It is extremely mint.


Green. So make it so minty. It has a band that could possibly be made of like Amber Beads featuring Dino DNA, and he's even got the chin strap.


They're cinched tightly under his chin like he's all in on the hat. Like the hat is secure. The hat is not coming off in a hurricane.


And the hat in the it frames his face nicely. And it's a face that's wearing Ken Griffey Jr. sunglasses.


Wow. That was that was a menagerie of reference points you just gave there.


I don't even know where to go. Look at so many directions.


I'll go with I'll go baseball. That was that was a Griffey reference, a Griffey Junior reference, which is very rare.


You get to sneak one of those in. So know that was good. I like that.


And and you're right on. Do those shades do look a lot like like like the Griffy shades that he was was so famous for? They've got that same, I don't know, inverted trapezoid thing. Yeah. And yeah, the glasses are quite sporty, but, uh, I got to say, John does not look particularly athletic. No. In the rest of his countenance in this photo, it's kind of like a hot mess out there.


Again, lots of joy, but not really all that well put together.


We've got like many joy because his belt, his pants are rolled up, but one pant legs rolled up higher than the other significantly. And he's got like his fishing shirt wide open and one side is hanging down further than the other. And then his life jacket is also wide open. And it's like straps fall everywhere, which again, not real good for fly-Fishing to have straps and things to catch you alone, hanging everywhere. It's not despite all of those.


However, perhaps the least sporty thing in this photo is the watercraft that is parked on the beach next John. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.


I would actually I would actually argue that the the vessel he's used to catch this fish makes the catch more significant because I wouldn't want to fish out of it.


No, I do. Do I want to say I fished out of worse, but I'm actually not sure. It's like you you guys go it's like a two person inflatable canoe kayak hybrid that I'm going to say came from Wal-Mart. And there's there's nothing wrong with inflatable Wal-Mart boats, but they they've got limitations. They're not like your best fishing vessels.


They don't have any gear storage. And they are very, very easily punctured by sharp objects like, I don't know, hooks, for example.


Also, how the hell do you cast out of that thing?


Yeah, there's because there's he's not standing up in that. Or if he is gone, maybe that's why he's wearing the life jacket.


You know, it's a warm day and he just figures I'm going to spill. But like you can understand, when we say inflatable, we mean all parts. It's not like inflatable with a hard frame like this. It's like there's no part of the boat that's not filled with er.


No, it's a rubber raft, canoe, kayak thing.


Stability for for me, for man of my stature is like a huge factor.


And I've been I've been on several watercraft that were built better than this, and I still got the jitters, like I recall a time that mean another fella through giant swim boats on musky rides out of a rickety ten foot john boat for a few days.


But I think that probably most of us have been on boats like this where it's like everything is going to be fine as long as nobody moves. Yeah.


You know, it's like no sudden movement or like if I go this way, you go that way and we have to be in sync. It's it's. Yeah, yeah. Or just go really, really slow and that's all fine. Again, this is the kind of watercraft that is perfectly fine if you're BU's cruising. Right. But fly casting requires motion and mobility and movement. And I don't think John's going to send this rig up any sweet jumps.


That's that's what I'm guessing.


Way to rain that one back. And we'd love to see a video, though, if you ever decide to shoot the chutes in that sled, though, John. Oh, good one. Good one. I'd also like to add that John concluded his email by calling this fish a turning point in angling for him, which is cool. But then he goes and ruins the sentiment by adding that he hasn't picked up a flyer out again since this day.


I don't know that truly. To me, that's the bummer of all of this out of the whole thing, because, again, despite all the shit we've been talking, the main attribute of this photo that I want everyone to take is the the joy. Yep. Of John, like he is having a sublime life moment here.




And then yet I know we might interest you, but you were you were happy. And happiness matters in this day and age, my friend. Yes. John, please pick that fly right back up again. You should hopefully.


We've also just created a turning point in your head gear choices. If we had been hats, I'd send you one. But we don't. So you're going to have. To settle for sticker's, John, we do appreciate you sending the photos so we could have some fun with it.


And remember, if you want to be subjected to this madness and your awkward fishing photos, too, bent at the meat eater dotcom, remember, you guys can now see John's photo on me and Miles Instagram's.


That's Joe Somali one three eight and water miles sits there basking in all its glory on the Internet.


Want to see? Yeah. Poor guy. Poor guy.


But in fairness, it's critical, I think that you learn the basics of macro photography for tiny fish, which makes me wonder, like if maybe John doesn't have Instagram, because if you know what you're doing, even a little bit like you can take a shot of a four inch mud minnow and make people think you're the shit, you know what I mean? If you do it his way, you just just end up on bent and get trampled over a hat.


I really hope that wasn't like his favorite hat.


I wonder I wonder if John's an archaeologist I like maybe that's his archaeologist hat or like maybe the hat that's been handed down through his archaeologists generations of fans. I don't know. I'm making up a story that would make us real jerks if we were, like, making fun of his lineage.


Anyway, speaking of getting trampled, let's head down river in an inflatable flamingo toward the waterfall of uncertainty and see who Swan dives over that drop like a pro in fish news.


Bishnu. That escalated quickly.


All right, this week I have a shout out I want to start with, if you've followed this show since the very beginning, you might remember that our first ever end of the line segment covered the Beatles.


And in that, I whined and complained that Johnson stopped making the Magnum size at some point. And recently. Yeah, you remember me complaining about that. So recently I got this photo from from listener Chris Lawler. And there he is holding up a brand new in the box Magnum sized Beatles spin at his local tackle shop.


I was like, what what did you find that? Yeah, and so at first I chalked it up to a regional oddity because Chris lives in Canada sort of thinking maybe Johnson decided to only market the larger sized beetle spins up north, but that just doesn't make any sense. Yeah, so so now I figure I'm wrong. I got to do a little more digging than you were thinking, this new old new old stock.


Right. I mean, like, oh, it's new old stock. I knew something was up.


I'm like old stock are like, but what what what the hell's going on?


So I went back into my Internet hole and it turns out you can still get the half size Beatles beans here in the U.S. You just have to really look for them specifically. OK, if you search the Internet for Johnson original Beatles PIN, which is what I did when I was right in the online segment, you will not find anything larger than a quarter ounce. If, however you Google half ounce Beadle's, spin's you will discover something different. Long story short, it seems like the super sized beetle spins somewhere, got rebranded as saltwater lures and separated out from the original beetle spins.


And so now they only come with gold blades and are only available a handful of colors, but they do still exist.


So I just want to say thanks to Chris for sending me down that deep, deep hole and also sending me a couple and and forcing me to figure out the mystery. Thanks, Chris.


Based on what you just said, only gold and certain colors, what they're pushing him for, what?


Trout and redfish. Right. Trout and redfish. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, that's good news. You and twelve other freshwater fishermen are super excited right now.


All right. I got just one baby shout out quick one to listener Anthony. It's either Marchant or Marchmont, OK?


It's one of the two.


Rarely do we get a name where I'm like, oh, it's just Smith. So that's OK.


But he wrote in following up to our little convo about good luck charms and pre fishing rituals and things like that. And I just thought this was fun and I'm going to steal something from him.


He wrote after the pre fish dump.


But before the morning cigarette, when we are gathering our gear, I will look over at my brother Alex or my buddy Nick and go, You boys ready to get skunked or you boys ready to wash some laws?


We do this to lower expectations and not get worried about catching any fish.


I have never heard somebody say, you ready to wash some laws?


Nope. Nope, I like that.


I am stealing that. Anthony, that's a good one. I'm taking it. So that's it. That's my shout out wash. I wash a lot of lures.


You'll probably be washing some Magnum Beetle spins pretty soon. You're damn right it's no good stuff. All right.


On Tannous, as a friendly reminder, this is a competition, Miles, and I do not know what stories the other guy is bringing to the table at the end of it.


As always, our audio engineer, Phil the Ayatollah, a rock and roll will judge us and declare a winner.


And right after that, we're going to do a little trivia with our friend Mandy Yurick.


You are up, man. You have that. You get to start today. All right.


So for my first story, I'm going to I'm going to be sticking with that kind of theme I brought up my shout at. And I'm also going to be piggybacking a little bit off of what Sam lingering covered last week when he was on here talking about is he still or is he still alive?


Before we go, last I heard last I heard, I have not received any. Yeah, I did. I did a couple days ago. He's not dead. And I don't think I don't think anything bad happen to him yet. So, yes, just remember, he was talking about concerns over Olympic Peninsula steel head potentially getting listed under the federal Endangered Species Act and how that would impact fishing for them and the whole culture of steel heading out there.




So we're going to move from the northwest to the even farther north east and talk about a similar situation playing out on the east coast of Canada. The Department of Fisheries and Oceans is considering listing certain Atlantic salmon populations under the Species at Risk Act, or SERA, which is the Canadian equivalent of the essay.


If it goes through, this listing would apply to salmon populations in over 130 rivers in Quebec, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador.


OK, so let's start with with some basic facts about Atlantic salmon populations of Canada, much like the Steelhead in the OP. They're not doing so hot. They've dropped from about 900000 mature fish returning in 1973 to about 100000 in 2020. And that's approximately 94000 fish below the estimated minimum to maintain a viable population.


Also, much like the Steelhead in the OP, the reason for these continuing declines are numerous and they're not easily fixed. So the Canadian Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife has recommended a threatened or endangered listing, which the Department of Fisheries and Oceans or DFAS is currently considering. That might sound like a good idea, right, the fish are in terrible shape, give them the highest level of protection available. Let's save these bastards. But salmon conservation groups disagree.


The Marjorie Salmon Foundation, St. Mary's River Association, Nova Scotia Salmon Association and Atlantic Salmon Federation are voicing strong opposition to the listing and spearheading a campaign to pressure the Canadian government to stay away from this move. Again, feel familiar that you've heard these arguments before, right? Yeah, listing these populations could put an end to recreational fishing, which would alienate the primary advocates that the fish currently have. We all know anglers put more time, effort and money into saving the fish they love than anyone else, including, you know, the PETA people and the conservation groups.




So. Right, right. Taking away our ability to fish for them could functionally cut off all that major support. And, you know, even better not do the kind of money that Atlantic salmon fishermen drop like big.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've I have several things to say, so but I'm not dumb, but like that.


That's one group of anglers who spends money. Right. And so. Yeah.


So advocates also worry that the closing these rivers would put additional pressure on the rivers that are still in good shape. Right. These are all arguments we've heard elsewhere, but some of their concerns did feel unique to me and seemed to go even further. According to the Guys Burrard Journal, which is a regional newspaper in Nova Scotia, Asara listing does not compel DFA or other government agencies to do anything about the actual threats a species might face, such as resource extraction, agriculture and unregulated fishing.


In a statement on their website, People for Salmon Atlantic Salmon Federation states, Sarah would take people off the water, threatening a long tradition of shared stewardship. Yet experience shows that serious threats like open net pens, salmon aquaculture would be left alone. Deirdre Green, a board member for the St. Mary's River Association, claims when a species is listed under Sara, there is a general prohibition against harming and harassing that species. This has been known to impact critical research, recovery and restoration efforts.


So it's possible that listing these fish could not only like prohibit fishing for them and not actually help the major issues or stop the major issues that are threatening these populations, but could also limit the ability of researchers and conservation groups to study and manage these fish and fisheries as doing so might fall into the category of harassing, protected wildlife. I do have to say the Department of Fisheries and Oceans is still considering this issue, and they have stated publicly that even if they do list these populations as endangered, they may still allow recreational fishing and other research and conservation activities.


So all of this is to say Canadian listeners and we know there are some of you out there if you care about salmon, this is a good time to write an email to your minister of parliament and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and tell them what you think. Remind them that fishing is conservation, that that anglers can and should be conservationists and stewards of the resource. Their decision on this listing is expected later in this year. And they're they're taking public comment.


So I think now is the time to no matter how this goes down, get your voices heard so it doesn't go in the way that all these groups are worried it might go.


Yeah, yeah. No, and I totally agree with that. And I will say I am certainly no expert by any means on Atlantic salmon. I fish for them in the Canadian Maritimes once.


I thought it was awesome. But it's one of those species that that me and a lot of other East coasters in general like you're intrigued by. Like I have friends. We've talked about doing Atlantic salmon trips for years.


We never actually get around to doing it. But I'm just intrigued by these fish. And you brought up you know, spending money is the one thing that I think is different here or strange.


Again, I'm not that familiar with the totality of the West Coast scene either, but it just seems a little different to me because I almost feel like if you really want to experience Atlantic salmon fishing in Canada.


Good Atlantic salmon fishing, you have to be willing to pay a shitload of money to do it, like you cannot just you can't just go up there and fish. It doesn't work that way.


So, I mean, part of the reason why I've never I've never gotten there, like I've always wanted to do the rest. Gosh, there's a few rivers up there that I've always wanted to do.


But you're not exactly getting media invites, and I don't have that kind of coin.


So this is interesting to me that these fish are ah, that they're attributing any hurt really towards over recreational fishing, because from my view and again, this is my ignorance, it seems like in the overall scheme of things there so few people doing it because it is such an elite thing to do that. Yeah, really, this is harming in the overall scheme of things, a very small amount of anglers, not like saying, well, you can't nobody can.


Trout fish in in Montana.


It's like tons of people do that.


The Atlantic salmon thing just seems like such a small group of very rich people that do it, you know? I mean, I think that's true for travel anglers.


I think the local cultures of those places are still very much tied to Atlantic salmon fishing. And and those aren't those aren't huge communities. But the people who live there that's in their blood. It's what they do. It's what they've always done. And I'm in the same boat, man. I've always wanted to fish Atlantic salmon. I've never done it because same deal right now. No one's offering up media trips, no salmon fishing, because they don't have to and I can't afford it.


So I've never done that. But I do think one thing to point out this is this legislation, this this potential listing is not aimed at angling. That would just be a consequence of it. They're talking about listing them just because they're in really bad shape. And the angling groups are jumping on that and saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on. If you do that, you're going to push us out. And I think that's going to have unintended consequences that you don't want.


So I don't see this is like the big bad government trying to attack anglers. I think this is an opportunity where anglers need to step in and say, like, hey, we're on your side. We're we're part of the solution here. Let's work together.


No, and I completely understand that. I think I know they're not targeting anglers. I just if you look at these two stories side by side, the steelhead in the Olympic and the salmon totally understand. I have friends up there who live up there.


And, yeah, they spend a lot of time Atlantic salmon fishing. They're lucky enough to live where the water is in their backyard, have wild freaking Atlantic salmon, which I think would just be the bomb. I can't even imagine that.


But it's it's a harder fight, I think, to to bring that awareness to on our side of the border, because it is such a small group of people that are going to do that.


Like, I want to see this work out because I still have that dream and I don't want to get off on it. But I fish the Miramichi one time and we did very well. But we also did it in the spring during black salmon season. And I was ignorant and didn't really understand the difference between the two.


So while it was cool and it was super fun, I've never had that bright silver eating a bomber experience. Right. You know, I haven't had that yet. And I have you there and I don't want to go to Russia to do it. Yeah, I'll say that I don't want have to go to Russia to have that experience, which you kind of do right now.


Exactly. But it's also I will say it's also a bummer just to hear that it's so problematic because so many states in the U.S. have tried to reestablish their runs. And in the back of your head, it's always like when they're faced with so many issues. I don't know if I'm ever going to see that in my lifetime.


But, you know, hey, if I can always go to Canada, if I really want to, I can always go to Canada.


Now to hear that shit like that might be off the table to not jump like that, that's not good.


So I hope that I hope that works out because I will get there someday. In the meantime, I have a feel good story. Yeah, this is a much more feel good story than that.


And it's winter, so I just generally don't feel good, you know.


So this is like a ray of sunshine in my cold, bleak existence. And several listeners actually sent this my way. And it comes to us from USA Today headline Angler Hooks Giant Lake Trout while on the phone with Surján.


OK, so this happened also in Canada.


We're very Canadian today. I just realized very, very Canadian. There's just nothing good going on in the States now that I think about it.


My second story is not in the USA either. Do something. People make some news. Help us out here. So this happened in Canada, British Columbia and not long ago, 57 year old Murray Zolt had to have emergency surgery to remove an obstruction in his intestines, and that went well.


He recovered nicely, but naturally after surgery, you make a follow up appointment right with your doctor.


And now Murray lives in the town of One Hundred Mile House, OK?


And the closest big town, I guess, with legit medical facilities is Kamloops. We get all those famous rainbow trout, you know, the Kamloops Fish, but that's roughly two and a half hours away from where Mary lives.


Well, the morning that he was supposed to head to the doctor's office, he gets a call that due to newly tightened restrictions because of the corvids, they wanted to switch his follow up to a phone call instead of in person. So Murray says, hell, I'm up early. I got up man early to drive to Kamloops. Now I don't have to go to Kamloops. I may as well go ice fishing at nearby Horse Lake.


And I. I really don't think he had to think about this too hard, because just two days earlier, he had caught his personal best lake trout through the ice on Horse Lake.


And that was a nice fourteen pounder. Good fish, right.


So Murray heads the horse, throws a bunch of holes and gets after it. And he jig's for a couple hours with nothing.


No, no zero bites. And then a surgeon calls and Murray begins his post surgery.


Follow up.


The doctor had all good news, said everything is great, you look good and then adds, Oh by the way, you're free to resume outdoor activities now.


So the irony in that right out of the gate. Right.


But as those words came out of his surgeon's mouth, Murray's get slammed.


So what does he do? Right. He puts the surgeon on speakerphone naturally, and his surgeon is apparently an avid angler.


And they enjoyed the fight together via cell signal with his surgeon post follow up.


So so he immediately had to admit I'm sorry to trouble. You immediately had a bit like I'm allowed to. Yeah, he's already sitting on it.


He's like, I'm sitting on a frozen lake right now. So just what I just got to check this out clearance.


Here's the kicker, right? Here's the kicker.


The Laker that he hooked while on the phone with the surgeon. Wait.


Twenty seven pounds, shattering Murray's other PB by thirteen hold pan.


Isn't that great, isn't it?


Isn't that nice and most impressive to me is the quality of the cell reception on Horsely campus because I looked it up on a map and you all are out there like I would have just assumed that was, you know, like, please, God, let this text go through country.


So, you know, I think it's a wonderful story.


And I also give the surgeon credit like this is a guy who is probably very busy and very official, but like he hung around on the phone to listen to the lake trout get caught.


That was probably the highlight of his day. Let's be honest. He's like, yeah, there's someone dying in the next room, but I got to hear how this ends.


I'll be getting better. We'll get to we'll get to the gallstones later. What are you guys what's on that? Well, that's important.


Yeah. So congrats to Murray. Murray looks like a character in his photos. He's like he's the way he's smiling with his with his fur hat on. He looks like somebody in grumpy old men who would be really fun to hang out with. Like like I feel like Murray would be a good time to to jig Lakers with.


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You started this story out by describing how your cold, bleak winter existence, I believe I believe those words the you.


Very much so, yeah. That is my story is is is about our collective cold, bleak winter existence and somebody who's trying to maybe make it a little less bleak.


It's a little short. I don't have a lot to say about this. I just think it's it's kind of cool.


And it's about the use of delousing salt on roadways.


If you if any of you out there live in Arizona or Florida or someplace that doesn't have ice.


There are states and cities in parts of the world where we get regular snowfall and and no snowfall. You just call it salt. It's not the salt.


It's just salt.


The people in Flagstaff are really hating us right now. But there are other but in northern climes, we get we get the snow and the ice and it kicks up on the roads and makes for dangerous driving conditions. Right. And and cities and states and towns will spread some combination of sodium, potassium and magnesium chloride on the road ahead of during and after snowstorms. These compounds lower the freezing point of water and make the snow and ice melt faster and at least in theory, make the roads safer.


Here in the US, we use a lot of this stuff like 200 million tons per year, which I didn't realize until I check this out and I use half of that on my driveway, you know what I mean?


It might make traction on the roads better, but these these salt compounds also have drawbacks. As anyone who has ever lived in a state that uses a lot of roads, I will tell you they wreak havoc on the undercarriage, your vehicle, because in rust and corrosion, you probably know about this.


I'm I is just going to say I just had my whole truck reframed and I'm sure the salt had something to do with it.


Definitely. It definitely did. And it's not just bad on vehicles, really bad on vehicles, but it also damages roads and bridges and like messes up all kinds of infrastructure. So it's it's bad for things. And I'm speaking specifically of things like cars and roads and bridges and metal.


It's great for not getting sued by ups like you don't want him to slip on your step. You know what I'm saying? I'm not I'm not negating the necessity of these things. I'm just I'm just pointing out they have some drawbacks. And some of them are environmental is all the all the snow and the ice. It melts, it turns into water and the water carries the chemical compounds into streams and rivers and wetlands and lakes and oceans.


Are you going to be talking about your own state in this at all? We don't use your. You're not. That's why I was going to ask.


That's why I can say because Montana, like you guys, are big. No, no. On salt.


We're a big no. No, I'm not. I decided I kind of admitted this out of that story because I don't think anyone care that much. But, yeah, we we avoid it for just this reason.


No, I only bring it up because last time I was out there and there was heavy snow and I was sliding all over the place, walking around town, I'm like, why doesn't somebody salt this shit? They're like, oh, no, don't say that.


We don't there's no salt here. I'm like, what? Anyway, we love our trout too much, dude. We love our trout. No, it's a good thing you're smarter for it. It's a good thing.


So there's all the context and and there's little fun little twist. Bentley's there. Jan Brewer, whose name should sound familiar since we just made fun of him.


Yes. We took her fishing photo. Just also sent us a story from the magazine Popular Science. And that story is written by Monica Lewinsky, who's a materials scientist working on alternatives to dicing salts. She's analyzing how how fish, insects and plants deal with ice in an attempt to develop more benign antifreeze compounds one of the most promising potential sources. Fish blood species like the Antarctic toothfish create glycoprotein that keep their blood from freezing even in the coldest waters on Earth, Buzinski and her colleagues have now isolated a compound in those glycoprotein proteins primarily responsible for their antifreeze characteristics.


She writes, These small compounds lock into place with water molecules like a key in a lock to prevent ice from forming. I'm sure that is a massive oversimplification for people like me, but I don't see it now.


You can't just dump a bunch of fish blood on an icy road and have it do the same thing as salt like that. That won't work. The glycoprotein breakdown quickly and openair. And frankly, that's probably good news for the to toothfish because otherwise they might be in trouble.


I already haven't seen one in years. I was wondering how they were doing, where we're I used to catch them all the time.


So instead of doing that, they're not just like slaughtering these fish and spreading their blood everywhere. Basinski and her colleagues have discovered that polyvinyl alcohol, an inexpensive compound that's non-toxic to humans and aquatic life, is surprisingly similar to the active antifreeze agent in fish blood. They're working to engineer slight changes to the chemical structure of PVA based on what they're they're learning from studying the fish to create a cheap, readily available Isong compound that will not rust your car or pollute your rivers.


So there you go. That's my favorite story for the day. Yeah, that's great.


I saw this headline and at first I thought they were going to try and, like, figure out how to do this with fish blood.


But basically they're learning from the fish blood how to synthesize this. Yes, yes. No, no actual fish blood. I'm all for that. I really am. And, you know, we were joking about the salt out here.


I feel like salting out here. It's one of those things that most people know, like it's really not good, but we're so in it, man. Like we're so ingrained in it.


It's just not going away like it's not.


You can buy salt for people who don't live in salt places where you need you need the shit.


You can buy salt anywhere. Like as of Thanksgiving, like you can go to the gas station. They're selling bags of salt out in front of the 7-Eleven. They're bags of salt. You can go to the post office and they got salt and like, it's so crazy here.


If there is snow forecast for five days from now, they start salt in the shit today, like they'll be salt on the roads today. It's a terrible idea. I think.


I think this is great.


I just I applaud Montana and I'm sure there's other states where they really took that to heart and were like, we don't need to do this to get through our winner here. Man, five days out, chance of flurries, get the trucks out there, salt that shit down.


You could cure meet on the street, dude. So don't like the sidewalk. Kids just don't do it.


Yeah, but no, I think I think that would be incredibly smart if we could figure out how to do that. And it is no joke. Yeah. I mean, you know, the fish is one thing. Yes. That's obviously very important to us. But the truck stuff is no joke either, man.


I mean, my frame just got rotted straight through.


So if you don't have to deal with that, good for you. Well, I will incorporate fish blood in a sense into my next story, as well as probably a pinch or two of salt.


OK, now I'm intrigued. Bang, bang on right there. We recently got an email from a listener that said we don't dabble in fish cookery on this on this program as much as he would like. And I kind of disagree because apparently he missed my riveting exposé of fermented sushi a few weeks ago.


Where were you on that one, Bud? But that's OK. It's all right. I'm going to try and make up for it with this one. And this comes to us, of all places, from the South China Morning Post headline, Pet Food.


Malaysian Woman's Koi Soup raises eyebrows after she makes meal out of dead fish.


And it's exactly that.


Good wordplay right there. Pet food. I got it. I got to say, see, they're pretty smart.


They're pretty smart. Good journalism over there. It's exactly what it sounds like. And this is from the story. It's a little bit here. Japanese koi are typically thought of as expensive ornamental fish rather than food.


So a Malaysian woman caused quite a stir on social media when she shared pictures of her dead pet koi being turned into soup.


Amanda Amezcua first posted the photos on a Facebook group with more than two million members called Cooking Fails of the Day.


Right. So that's that's where she went. OK, that's where she went.


OK, in her post, Omniture included a photo of over a dozen of her dead pet koi fish laying on the floor, which, according to her, all died of suffocation when her domestic helper forgot to turn off the water supply to the fish tank, resulting in low oxygen now.


I read that and reread that several times, and I'm not a fish tank nerd, but do you think they meant that the domestic helper forgot to turn on the water supply?


But if you forgot to turn off the water supply, wouldn't your kois be overly oxygenated? I would think. Think about it doesn't you're right. That doesn't make unless there's just some weird stuff in the like.


No, I can't I can't figure out how to do some some some tank people are going to be like Nowy and I always keep my mouth. I don't know, I just I just caught me off guard. That didn't seem right to me. It's irrelevant in the long run. Anyway, this woman documented every single step of this process. So first it's it's more than a dozen dead coie. Then there's the shot of all the beautiful Khoi hacked into a million pieces in a strainer.


Right. Just like ruffed. It's a rough chop with a cleaver. Right.


And then you've got a pot full of Khoi simmering on the stove and then the finished product, a steaming hot bowl of soup.


Now, here's the thing right there. Just Karpe. That's all they are, right? They're very pretty. Yeah, they're very pretty carp.


And lots of people, Asians especially eat carp. That's not weird. It's part of their culture. They eat carp all the time.


But despite knowing this, the shot of the bull, the finish bowl of soup makes me gag a little. And I attribute this gagging to two things.


It's one it's just the color of the fish, like there's a very vibrant, still very vibrant bright orange and white koi head in the middle of the bowl with those boiled out glazed over eyeballs.


And it's to me, it's just Off-putting, I'm sorry. And second, the broth looks like dirty dishwater, like it looks to me like it would have no flavor other than that of your palate fed koi. So I know the eating of carp is not weird, but I mean, you saw the pic. Does the soup look good? Do you like does it look like good soup.


So you sent me these photos and know it is it doesn't look like the fish soup that I prefer to make.


But you know what, I don't think you can judge particularly a soup just by how it looks.


You eat with your eyes first, man. Come on. If you if one of my boys in Louisiana threw a coin, some gumbo, I'd be like, oh, that looks delicious. Spicy.


Contee It's just like a bowl of starchy potato water with a giant koi head in the middle of it.


Dude, I'm saying I would reserve judgment, I would try it and I would reserve judgment until drying it. And I don't have the highest hopes because like you said, these are pellet fed Gois. I don't think they're going to be the the most the tastiest of all the fishes.


But I've been wrong before. Even if she made the soup out of regular carp she bought at the fish market and posted it to to a cooking Facebook group, I'd still be like, well it looks shitty.


Like that doesn't dacoit. It takes to a whole other level.


But the vibrant colors, I got to admit, through the vibrant colors in the super are are just a little strange. I was you off.


It does, it's it's throws you off.


So anyway, some of the comments from the social media post are interesting.


And remember, this is on an Asian version of Facebook. This isn't our Facebook. So these were all translated in the story. But one person wrote, no way. They are too cute, another jested that this was a dish for nobility.


And my personal favorite, someone asked how they were because if they were good, they'd consider setting up a tank and rearing them just for eating purposes.


Like to have your own like like like raising chickens. That'd be very expensive. I was.


That's how cheap I know. Quite cost over there. But they are, they are not cheap so. Yeah. Khoi soup.


I mean it wasn't wasteful.


I get I guess it's better than putting them in a garbage bag and they surely would have clogged the toilet, especially one of those low pressure toilets. Like there's no way you're getting all them down.


I fully support it. I fully support it. You know, you had the record. They're dead. They're fresh. Eat them. I might have I might have gone with a different preparation.


But I the basic idea of what she was doing, I'm fully in favor of I probably would have freedom, but I'm an American, so of course I'm going to fry them. What the hell else am I going to do? I'm not creative enough to think of other ways, prepare my fish.


So I love what she was doing and I think she was trolling everybody. And I think that's kind of fun, too.


I think she was just like, look what I did eat my pets. How pissed off are you people?


One hundred percent. One hundred percent. Now, now Phil's got a troll. Everything we just went through. What do you want to do this week, Phil?


Do you want to play hockey on your surgeon and go ice fishing? You want to spread some rock salt across the streets of Montana, cook some, cook some koi soup, save some Atlantic salmon, lots of options and we'll see what Phil comes back with.


The winner of Fish News this week is John Brewer.


John, between your awkward fishing photo and contribution to fish news, you're practically a third co-host this week. I hope Joe and Miles send you more stickers than you know what to do with. And I cannot wait to hear your end of the line segment. You got to be highly skilled for these shows, you understand it. Yes, I do understand. Are you well versed there? You very smart man. Yes, I am. All right.


Today's trivia contestant is one of my absolute favorite Minnesotans of all time, Mandy Urich. Hey, guys. How's it going? Good. So for those of you who don't know, Mandy, first of all, you should. But she's the tournament angler, an ice fishing savant. I learned a lot from her radio, TV host, fishing gear designer, former hunting guide, and most importantly for this segment, a trained biologist. I know I missed some stuff there, man, because you do like everything.


But thanks. Thanks for, uh, thanks for coming on.


Oh, this is awesome. Thanks for the invite. Yeah, of course.


So you ready to play your do some trivia. I'm ready to play. All right. So so like we just nailed all those things you put on your biologist hat for this one. Right.


OK, and to start off with, this isn't the actual trivia question. I'm just kind of checking you out here. Do you know off the top of your head the scientific name for smallmouth bass? No, and I should know I wouldn't have either. And I'm going to I'm going to butcher the pronunciation, but I figure you'll probably help me with that. Is it is it Microbe Terrace or Microraptor us? Yes, she doesn't know either. That makes me feel better.


All right, so I'm going with Microfit Terrace Dolo MUE, right?


That's your that's your scientific name for the smallmouth. And in a very roundabout way, SMALLMOUTH share some of their taxonomic history with one of the greatest blacksploitation films in history, which is, of course, Dolemite. Right. Have you seen my man. No.


One, jump in real quick and say I've heard this question. Good. Best of luck. Best of luck on my show. Miles went so far out in left field, I went out deep on this one.


OK, so the question for you today is this.


How did smallmouth bass end up with a Dolemite inspired name? And one of the following three things is true. If you get this right, you win and you'll get great fame and absolutely no fortune at all. All right. So here we go.


A copy of Dolemite on Jane Deontae. No, it'll be VHS or maybe Betamax.


I'm going Betamax. All right. So is it a Rudy?


Ray Moore, the creator and star of Dolemite, once did odd jobs in a fisheries lab that did research on smallmouth. He told one of the lead investigators that he should name smallmouth after Dolemite because, quote, that's a bad ass fish and it needs a bad ass name. Second, option B in his youth, Rudy Ray Moore spent a lot of time in Detroit with his uncle Frankie, the two regularly face the Detroit and Huron Rivers. Young Rudy was kind of a science geek, so he memorized the Latin names of all the fish they caught when Rudy invented his famous pimp character, Dolemite.


Decades later, he named it after his favorite fish, the smallmouth. Or C in 18 to a smallmouth bass was sent to Paris from an unknown source in the US, the ichthyologist to examine the specimen gave it the scientific name Ammu after one of his drinking buddies, a local mineralogist who he idolized because of Dolomites reputation with the ladies. Subsequently, the Rock Dolemite was also named after Dole Lemieux again, probably due to the guy's reputation as a player because he didn't even discover that mineral Carl Linnaeus did.


All right.


So to recap, to recap, because I know I just gave you a lot of money, I'm going to just give you a short recap here. Is it a the creator of the movie Dolemite, also named the smallmouth bass, be the creator of the movie Dolemite, named his famous character after the smallmouth bass, or C smallmouth bass, were named after a famous French ladies man whose reputation as a player was so good. He also got the mineral Dolemite named for him, even though he didn't discover it.


I got to go see man, that's an epic answer, I don't care if it's true or not, that things at the end she nails it for you, because when I tried this question, I was like, I don't remember anything you just said.


I was just so excited to make a connection between Dolemite and smallmouth bass that I couldn't let it go.


You you went way off the rails with that one, just way off the record. I know. I know. All right.


But I feel like I feel like I have to defend myself because I wanted to ask bendir smallmouth question. Right. Because she's like a smallmouth savant and she's a biologist. And so I was as I was digging in there and I learned the scientific name for smallmouth, I learned that it shares the same route as Dolemite, which was just too much for me to pass up. And then I learned the history of how both the Mineral Dolomite and the smallmouth got their name from a French society scientist better known for his infidelity than his research.


And I could not leave it alone. I realized that one went out like way out in left field, but I couldn't help myself. I'm sorry.


I know it's just all those things. It's just so you know, it's just so miles those things.


Well, thankfully, Manti has been on this show before and even played trivia before. Otherwise, she may never come back again after that.


I think Mandy learned something. That's what I think. And I happen to know that she is the kind of person who appreciates learning. So I think I think Mandy will be back. I hope she'll be back. And she'll be back. We'll have her back. I'll get her back. If she soured on you, I'll get her back. Look, if she's busy, if she's busy the next time we call her, that'll just be one more thing for me to feel shameful about hiding the shame wizard of Goans.


Shame is this Shapeways. But as you're about to hear in Enderlin, Joe is currently feeling completely shameless, especially for a guy who supposedly settled with Roman Catholic guilt this week in honor of the pending Valentine's Day, or, as I like to call it, corporate love day.


Joe is going to take a slight departure from our standard profile of like a single bait and instead dig into the back story of an entire manufacturing company that definitely did not suffer the shackles of shame.


It's not loud enough, but. Compacting everything Frank Johnson contributed to fishing into a single end of the line segment would be almost impossible. To say he was an innovator is an understatement. Engineering genius is very fitting.


And while I never had the chance to spend time with Frank, who passed away in 2016, I have rubbed elbows with a lot of people that did.


And they've all got stories. While Frank was a brilliant book, smart man. He also knew how to have a good time. And in the case of our Valentine's length story today, he knew how to translate a good time into a smart business move.


Although Frank invented products like the aluminum interchangeable uni. But system, which has pretty much become standard on all big game trolling rods. He is arguably best known as the man behind Molde craft laws.


Frank had gotten into the injection molding business in the early 1970s and actually helped develop the tooling to create the first ever mass produced pacemaker. But after a few years, the stress of developing products like pacemakers and jet engine parts that could cost someone their life if you messed up kind of took its toll.


And that's when Frank combined his engineering skills and his lifelong love of fishing to create the first soft injection molded one piece big game trolling lures, trademarking the term soft softheaded to refer to his family of Bates', Frank would end up developing laws like the wide range, Bobby Brown and Spooled, all of which are still in shops today and considered timeless classics in the offshore scene, having caught countless monster marlin sailfish and Wahoo the world over. But those aren't what got Molde craft off the ground.


The first law Frank ever produced was the squirt squid available in four plants and five colors.


These semi's, soft molded squids would become game changers as teasers in both the recreational and tournament worlds, as well as for commercial captains, greenstick fishing for giant bluefin tuna.


Matter of fact, you watch Wicked Tuna, Outer Banks and you'll still see the original squirt squid skipping around behind those boats.


Then one fateful day, shall we say.


In the mid 1970s, Frank was shown a photo of a young lady having a really good time with one of his squirt squids and she wasn't on a boat.


If you catch my drift now, Frank could have just laughed this off. But instead, seeing he was a firm believer that sex does in fact sell, he retooled some of the squirt squid molds and begin a foray into the adult novelty's market.


And just as he was in the fishing market, he was a pioneer in this market to playing off the popularity of the Petrarch. Frank named his creation the pet.


Well, you get it. I don't have to say it.


And in 1978, Screw magazine awarded it the title of Product of the Year.


Now, I chatted with Frank's son, Frank Jr., who runs Molde Craft now, and he told me the pet rock with a C received this high honor because most adult toys at the time were made of latex. And if you happen to be a person that had an allergic reaction to latex, those toys weren't very fun at all.


Frank's product, on the other hand, was the first of its kind made of injection molded vinyl, which caused no allergic reactions.


Hence they were fun for the whole family. Now, I heard a rumor from several people over the years that the toy side of the business got so huge.


Frank Johnson started a whole other company, that being Doc Johnson, which is still one of the biggest adult toy manufacturers in the world.


I was even told that to this very day, one side of the facility is pumping out candies for use in the cockpits of sport fishing boats while the other side is churning out candies for the bedroom on the love boat. So is Frank Johnson.


Actually, Doc Johnson answer. He's not. Frank Jr. debunked this rumor once and for all, though he did ad man I wish we were Doc Johnson.


Frank Jr. explained that while their sex toys made the company money for a long time, they eventually had to kick that side of the biz out of the waterbed because as years went on, the novelty's market became flooded with cheaper products from China. And while Frank's products may have been better quality, the cost of goods made it impossible to compete for distribution.


According to Frank Junior, however, all the molds are still ready to go at the manufacturing facility in Florida.


He even said, If I ever need a couple thousand, he's happy to run me a batch. I'm good on that.


But when I got my first boat many years ago, I did buy dozens of mold crafts, junior hookers. They're actually the smallest trolling chuggers the company makes.


But my little single outboard beta wasn't exactly getting me far enough offshore to pull a squirt squid, Tizer or wide range or Bobby Brown for Marlin.


Those tiny chuggers knock the fire out of Banita false albacore and chicken dolphin in my meager inshore range though, and every once in a while I'd even get a Schooley Bluefin to rise to that daisy chain of tiny hookers for a twenty two year old full of piss and vinegar and a third hand eighty-six persued pretending to be Tred Barta.


That was the most orgasmic feeling in the world. We're we're going to get some emails about that one, especially from all you people who were pissed off that we made fun of Pinochet lures.


Well, yeah, we are. And you know what? I'm not sorry because there's a difference here. Penis laws agree, are and were stupid and pointless erotic toys. They're just a that's a celebration of human sexuality.


There you go. If you want to complain about the distinction, you can bet your frustration in an email to Brent at the Meat Eater Dotcom using the subject line grow.


Screw yourself, Joe. Yes, yes. I will gladly read every single one of those. Also send awkward fishing photos, bar nominations and sailboard items to that same email account and use those to generate anger and bent podcast hashtags for the chance to get yourself some sticker packs.


It is only February, but I am already looking forward to embarrassing myself with some slight fishing next spring. I can't wait for that. I look forward to those those moments of humiliation. Before we go, I want to leave you with a question and I'm serious about this. Does dark house spiring count as site fishing? Hmm.


I'm personally saying no. I'd say it counts as spiring, which naturally requires a good line of sight no matter what you're checking at. But let's hear from you.