You guys already know that this podcast runs on Black Reifel Coffee, but we want to score you up on a few things you might not know about Black Reifel Green Beret.

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The Bente podcast is presented by Black Reifel Coffee Co., which is cool because not only does Black Reifel support the veteran and military community through sales of their totally delicious rose to order coffee, but did you know that founder Evan Hafer also used to be a fishing guide? Therefore, he understands that legit anglers thrive on coffee and subsequently so do people that make podcasts.

So if we ever sound jittery now, you know, why do I need a cup of coffee before I head out fishing or make a podcast? And I'd rather not get stuck with a cup of whatever's lukewarm at the gas station. Black rifles, wide variety of Rosta options gives me lots of good stuff to choose from. Check them out at Black Reifel Coffee Dotcom Backslash Meat Eater and do us and yourself a favor and use the promo code meat eater a checkup.

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Fly fishing for tapin might be the most egregious example of fishing excess on the planet, so I don't know if you guys know the science behind a taxicab rocketing to the top too quickly can be dangerous. Just ask the Greek dude with a wax wings or the kids and crisscross. But once you figure all that out, then you can just sit back with a beer. Good morning, degenerate anglers, welcome to Bent, the fishing podcast that will not judge you for eating two of the three sandwiches you packed for lunch before eight a.m..

I'm Joe Ciarelli. I'm Miles Nulty.

And yeah, why does that happen? Like, why are you always starving at five a.m. on a fishing trip like clockwork?

Dude, people are like, why are you having sandwiches?

And I'm like, I'm going to eat two of them before we break the inlet.

It always happens. Yeah.

I mean, I also think that disgustingly delicious road snacks are a mandatory thing to bring on any good fishing trip, but I've got to have them.

Absolutely. I personally am a 7-Eleven go go to Kaito kind of guy. I'd like to to to Kitakata.

I always say to Kaido, can we it to Cadeaux the Philly cheesesteak one and they're rolling right next to the hot dog on the spinny thing there. So they get some of that Wigner essence.

You know, and I also know I love is bacon jerky, which is stupid because it's just a bag of bacon. There's really no jerky, you know.

How about what do you what do you grab? Oh, man.

I'm I am drawn to that greasy hardcase like a moth to a myocardial infarction flame, dude. Oh. And and for as much as I love it, holla Panio corn dog that's been roasted lovingly under a heat for thirty six hours. I'm not willing to compromise when it comes to coffee. Mm hmm. I mean, ok, I am willing to compromise if I have to like if I don't have other options I will swig down somethin bitter brew just for the caffeine, but I won't enjoy it.

Well thankfully Miles, you don't have to because as a reminder, this podcast is in fact entirely fueled by Black Reifel coffee, and they have you covered no matter what your coffee needs, whether you're indulging in a nice Bujji pour over on a lazy Sunday morning or mixing up a quick dose of the instant before sprinting out the door on a Tuesday, black rifle will keep you flush with brew that's not only caffeinated, but very tasty.

That is accurate. And with their coffee club, you can just sign up for what you want and they'll make sure you never run out. Go to Black Reifel Coffee dotcom slash meat eater to scratch your every last Java itch today. Use the code mediator check out and they'll even take twenty percent off your order.

Did you see Java.

It's that's, that's some shit that might require a low trim. Indeed. Did you ask, did you really write that thinking that will help us sell coffee. Man.

Go out. Go out. It's a play on a common idiom. All right. You're the only one thinking about down South. Rasche Fall the rest of us. Yeah, no, the rest most of us most people don't have their head there.

We're just kicking back, enjoying our delicious coffee. And we do not appreciate your filthy interjections anyway. And that's that's probably enough of that. We're supposedly here to talk about fishing, but I'm looking at the set list here in front of me. And it actually seems like we're going to stick with fungal infections, metaphorically speaking, at least for the next few minutes, because we are leading off this week's show with my least favorite segment of all time fungal infections.

That was well put. That's I like that. But Miles is right. He's back. Ladies and gentlemen, the one and only Lance V and look, OK, we know that he can be kind of grating. All right, we get it. We know that Lance is not what anyone imagines when they, I don't know, say, say, gaze into the face of their newborn child and picture a successful, prosperous and productive future. But look, he is a reality.

Like it or not, Internet culture is alive and well and fishing is not immune. And in fact, as listener Mike Mancini put it, this is a quote. Now, I am humbly requesting that you keep Lance V. I hate that guy. He's the absolute worst and he's the perfect embodiment of what y'all are not. I love in all caps to hate in all caps that guy and he needs to stay. Mike, this trolling with Lance is for you, buddy.

The land to the boats, to the lake, to the sea, filling up the net with your boy. What's happening, qualified captains, it's your favorite Internet fishing guru, Lance, be here to aid you in continuing education about killing it as an online angler.

This week, we have a deep question from Josh Y, who writes, Guys, come on, this Lance V guy is a freakin chucklehead. But if you had to pick just one Instagram filter, what would it be? I have to be honest, Josh, I didn't want to answer this question. In my opinion, this information is so powerful that it could shave years off your pursuit of Internet greatness and rocketing to the top too quickly can be dangerous.

Just ask the Greek dude with a wax wings or the kids. And criss-Cross, who spent decades in therapy to overcome their desire to wear their pants backwards. Hashtag Daddy Mack. But I decided to go for it. So brace yourselves.

The answer is Hefe. Listen, I know that was a lot to take in. Many of you are probably in shock right now. Don't torture yourself.

For all the mediocre fish photos you posted using Ludwigs, Perpetua those wasted opportunities to grow your social media presence, you didn't know you were so sure. Using Nashville on that tight shot of a bass pro brand crap would take your post from worthless to art that your ten followers would say, oh, my God, it's breathtaking. You're absolutely positive. The slightly washed out look of Lark was perfect for another sunrise over the pay like photo.

And you were so. Wrong, but I'm here to tell you, it's OK. We all make mistakes. Hash tag here with me, Hefe is the answer. It's always been the answer. And you need not understand why the details come with similar consequences to figuring out who killed JFK or whether Vanilla Ice knowingly sampled that Queen song in Ice Ice Baby. Listen, I've already told you too much, and I fear divulging further information about the powers of Hefe could lead to issues regarding my personal safety or worse, a loss of sponsorship opportunities with hash tag Knights of Columbus.

Josh, you're welcome. I want to make it clear I take no responsibility for how you or anyone else use this information. Hashtag risk factor.

Hmm, that's actually gave me something to think about this time you like, he really found a soulful place this week. I feel like we discovered some some hidden wellspring of depth that none of us ever knew existed in young Lance there.

It's it's almost like it's almost like we're trying to hint at a more interesting and significant character so we can disappoint everyone for our own amusement in the subsequent episode.

Or or maybe Lance will surprise all of us with his development over time.

It's like a slow process.

You just have to keep tuning in to see what happens, because as long as you guys keep sending questions to bent at the median income for Lance will keep passing them on to him and he'll keep answering them a week or two after his deadline passes.

That's how he rolls. Yep. Yep. And while I have been begrudgingly forced into recognizing the power and influence of 21st century media, I have not given up on what I will always consider the nucleus of fishing culture. That is to say, skillful and well crafted writing.

Yeah, real writing as in words on printed paper, things we used to do in former lives.

You and I both every so often we bring you our book recommendations. And this week, Miles is reviewing a brand spanking new titled penned by one of our favorite authors, who also happens to be a buddy of ours as well. It's time for Frick and Philistines to Folkston.

Sagi doesn't care about books or interesting films and things. The long lasting.

From a purely logical standpoint, sportfishing is stupid, pointless. We all know it, even those of us who eat our catch occasionally or often will admit that's not the reason we fish.

Fresh flesh is at best a bonus, at worst, a justification. Fishing for sport is arguably hedonistic, cruel, narcissistic, selfish, sadistic and foolish, it can also be miserable, boring, excruciating, interminable and obnoxious. But hot damn when it's good, it's so good.

I'm going to assume that if you're listen to this podcast, you know exactly what I mean, because fishing attracts obsessives. It's a spectrum, of course, but every serious angler I've ever known skews toward compulsion.

Montebourg is obsessed with obsessives, he's built a career writing about them and his latest book, Lords of the Fly Madness, Obsession and the Hunt for the World Record, tapin continues the trend. This book profiles the rarefied subculture of individuals who have spent some or in certain cases, the vast majority of their lives trying to catch record. Tapin if there are any heroes in the story. However, they don't carry fishing rods or IGF certificates. The Conquest anglers are portrayed as what I would assume them to be wealthy, entitled jerk offs who don't respect the fish, the place or each other.

The ruthless guides who take those anglers fishing generally come off as arrogant, unscrupulous and bitter. Just about every character in this book strikes me as a deeply flawed human if there's a hero in this story. It's a tragic one. The vanquished utopia that was the Homosassa, Florida tarpon fishery of the 1970s and 80s. Burke describes it almost as if it were the garden and the anglers who indulged in its fruits, the men who precipitated the fall.

He writes, the stories from on the water were stupendous, almost too hard to believe, but also in aggregate, too hard to ignore. On the Oklahoma flat, one day Perez held the boat steady for Robertson as fish came at the boat from every direction. The tapin began to form a daisy chain and we were somehow in the center of it, says Robinson.

It was 30 feet wide and 15 feet deep with fish from the top of the water to the ocean floor, you could see flashes. It was solid, tapin.

Cheatham and Lopez arrived one morning at the Blakroc and had it to themselves. Hold on shit and said, Just take your time. There's more fish here than I can count. Should have been Lopez two were in the middle of a daisy chain, it turned out one comprised of some 2000 fish. Lopez hooked five fish in under two hours. Over the next ten days he jumped more than 200 fish. He got sixty one of those to the boat. It wasn't just the numbers of fish, though.

There were stories every day of massive fish seen but not hooked or hooked, but not landed fish well over 200 pounds. Everyone had a story. And those stories of the monsters never to be caught, but only seen or hooked, only to be lost, they were told, with more relish, more vigor and more feeling than the stories of the fish that were caught, even the ones that became world records.

It makes sense in angling as in life. It is the ones that get away, that haunt our dreams, that push us over the brink into a lustful madness. And Homosassa was the first place in these anglers lives where hot damn those dreams just might come true. The book's narrative winds its way through a dozen different characters, all the famous names of saltwater fly fishing appear apt cray pallette Hough records are created, then shattered, along with new line glasses, new tackle, new boats.

The fishing world descends upon this place where the Tarpeena huge and plentiful. They take what they can as quickly as they can, and the place is left diminished, some might say decimated. And we absorb it all through Burke's deft and tactful voice. He remains a journalist in the best sense of that word, presenting the people fish and events as factually as he can, except when he doesn't, diving into engrossing interludes and anecdotes that skillfully tip his hand as an obsessed angler himself, one who, like most everyone reading, missed the party and knows that any sense of moral superiority he might feel only comes from the fact that he wasn't lucky enough to be among the offenders.

One of the aspects that makes this book so compelling is that honesty outside the billfish tournament scene fly-fishing for tapin might be the most egregious example of fishing excess on the planet no one in this country eats. Turpan fly tackle is probably the least effective method of catching one, and a good guide charges 800 bucks a day. And the most stupid, pointless and obsessive offshoot of tapin fly fishing culture is record chasing.

People spend entire lives and fortunes trying to catch one fish whose gravitational pull can be measured as slightly greater than another. They don't care about any other fish they might catch. They don't even enjoy the experience of catching a record. The fish don't actually matter. They just represent challenge measurable benchmarks of validation.

Lords of the Fly does not shy away from any of that. In fact, its power lies in recognizing that while this form of fishing might seem reprehensible, it's really just the inherent nature of sport fishing pushed to its furthest and perhaps ugliest extreme.

So I have a confession, man, I have not read Lord of the Flies yet, but not because I'm not interested that it sounds thoroughly enjoyable.

It's good I. I haven't read it because you have been promising to send me your copy for over two weeks now.

I mean, I know, like, the mail's slow. Right. I get it. But it ain't that slow.

So until that happens, I'll just have to sit here and reread Monty soberly again.

Yeah. All right. Look, it's the book is sitting on my desk. It's right here. I'm looking at it right now, but it looks good along and along. It's actually sitting stacked up with another book that I've been promising to mail to you for eight months. I don't know, nine. It's all the same. And that's all on me. But look, I have always hated going to the post office.

It's never been a chore that I relish or enjoyed or did with any sort of zeal.

But the thought of standing in an hour long, serpentine line in the middle of winter during a massive spike in covid cases is it's really depressed.

The old motivation, you might say? No, I get that.

I understand. I hate the post office, too, especially during covid. But what I also hear you saying is I can expect those books to arrive. What post vaccine?

Yeah, pretty much, yeah. So I'll put them on on the list of all the other shit I can look forward to when the day finally comes. Seeing family traveling, drinking in places other than my basement with people other than my wife going fishing with a whole group of buddies instead of a select few that you assume are being careful. So great. Thanks. Mm hmm.

Yeah, you're welcome. That is sadly true. But while some aspects of our lives feel suspended like dinosaur DNA trapped in amber for millions of years, we press on.

I'm simply saying that life finds a way.

You know, I actually have a shirt with a snakehead skull on the front drawn like the Jurassic Park logo that says life finds a way on the back.

Really? Yeah. It's one of my favorite T-shirts. Shout out to geek on the water for giving me that. Anyway, one thing that is certainly pressed on this year's news, but we don't bring you the same horrible, divisive news you might find elsewhere here at Bent. We bring you something that just about all of us can come together on except me and Miles, of course, who are trying to vanquish each other. It's time for Fish News.

Bishnu. That escalated quickly before we hit Fish News, a little housekeeping. I'm sorry and apologize to everyone out there, but I just I have to say this. Twenty, twenty. Seriously enough, just stop. I'm done. And I will explain what I'm talking about, it's nothing political. You might expect it's all the things you know, but there's more. So first of all, you may you hopefully didn't notice this, but when we were in the middle of recording Fish News last week, this happened.

Hey, dude, I'm sorry we got to pass something crazy just happened in my house and I had to go check it out. Something OK?

I'm sorry. So what the hell was that? Well, that was the sound of my elderly neighbor mixing up the gas and brake pedals and driving her Subaru into the front of my house.

This is this really happened.

This this this happened last week.

And so when we record this like we're on the computer so Miles and I can see each other and the part that I'll add is I couldn't hear it on my end. But you were just like something crazy just happened. But then you left and you didn't turn off your computer. So the last thing I saw was you standing in your hallway yelling at your wife, going, are you kidding me?

And I was like, oh, I should probably leave this session like, yeah, last time I saw that happen. So but. All right, good news on that. No one was hurt. All right. Nobody got hurt. The the neighbor who's a very nice woman, she was not hurt. None of us were hurt. Everybody's fine. That that's the really good news. The other good news is that, man, I have incredible friends.

By the time that the tow truck had extracted the car from my home, two of my people, one a structural engineer and the other a contractor, had dropped everything. They were in the middle of like the middle of their workday to come over and assess the like the structural integrity, my house and put up a temporary support walls. The whole thing didn't fall down.

And just to paint a clear picture, what do I hear banging yeah, I'm sorry that my buddies building the OK, that our house is like my. That's fine.

We're good. So the house is still standing, but it's going to be some months before it's back to normal again around here, you can check out our Instagram pages to see photos of the carnage and the car in my house. That's Attwater, Miles and Agios family.

But wait, there's more. That same day, a friend of mine, a signature flower designer fishing guide, generally good humored Andrew Guerrilla's, suffered a massive stroke, which is I mean, it's terrible. Was also hard to imagine because we're talking we're talking about a guy who does ultramarathons for fun. Yeah. This is not the person you're going to expect this to happen to, right?

Yeah. And and look, he's in for a long haul. He's in for a lot of medical bills with his family. And and listen, we've said it before. We're going to do it again. We angler's we look out for our own. So I'm asking everybody out there who has the ability to help. If you can get on Instagram, look up the hashtag flies for Andrew and and bid on something if you're able to. There's all kinds of amazing stuff up for grabs.

From fishing gear to custom art to guide trips by Buddy Nick, English is actually auctioning off info like Intel on his secret high alpine trout legs that he's spent years finding. Yeah, yeah.

So a lot of good people are chipping in to help out. And if you're able to, I, I just ask that you please do. So, like I said, twenty twenty has been a nonstop dumpster fire for for lots of us. But on the bright side, you know, I say, man, it's really show me that we are able to come together and look out for each other when we have to. And that's that's worth something, you know.

Yes. Valuable. Yeah.

And no matter no matter how much I think we all feel the EU 2020 vibe, if nothing else, one way or the other, it's almost over. Almost over. We're getting there. You know what what it looks like when it passes that we don't know.

But, you know, just based on the calendar alone, like we're almost that we're almost out of the woods.

We're going to see a change. We're almost out of the woods anyway. Housekeeping complete.

Let's move on to the news you can use in the fish world. Reminder that this is a competition, Miles, and I do not know what stories the other guys bring bringing to the table.

And at the end of this session, our magical audio engineer, Phil, will declare a news winner. I believe it is my week to lead off that close.

It is indeed. OK, all right, great. So let's let's lead off with this one, which is kind of silly, but I just couldn't leave it alone.

So as if E.R. doctors don't see enough action in this time of covid, an E.R. in Egypt got put on notice when a man stumbled in gasping for breath because, as it turned out, he had a live fish stuck in his throat.

You saw this story today?

I did see the story, yes. OK, OK. I'm not trying to step on your thunder, but as soon as you said that, I was like, oh, I know where he's going.

It's a very me kind of story.

It comes it comes to us from TMZ, which is the news equivalent of the Urban Dictionary, but still from the story. And when I say from the story, this is literally written like text messages, like that's like that's how their shit is written, sort of journalism at its finest people. Exactly.

A guy who went fishing in Egypt got more than he bargained for when his catch for the day tried going down his gullet before he could even fry it up.

Dot, dot, dot. And it almost killed him. This this little lead man. This went down last week near Beny sweep.

Swift went something about 90 miles south of Cairo when this poor fellow came stumbling into an E.R. down there, gasping for breath and unable to speak.

He obviously, obviously had something funky in his throat dash. And that thing, it turned out, was a live fish.

Doctors diagnose the blockage in his windpipe after running him through an X-ray and other tests and then immediately got to work in extracting the damn thing with some tools.

TMZ says where it is. You watch the video I did.

We'll get to the video and say there is a video. But, you know, the word is the guy was OK after all. But as for how this happened in the first place, bizarre to say the least, apparently this dude caught this tiny fish and put it between his teeth to free up his hands so he could attend to another fish he had on the line.

I'm still quoting here, this little bastard started squirming and broke free from his jaws grasp and went swimming in the dude's mouth.

So I. I tried to get a species ID, but I came up short.

Right. This hard story didn't say, but I looked I couldn't I couldn't find a good cross reference.

It's a little silver fish with long red fins, maybe four inches long. And it kind of looks like a tilapia, I think, or some kind of salted brim. Yeah, who knows? They got all kinds of weird shit down there.

But as as Miles brought up, there's there's a video. Did you watch the video?

I chose not to. I was like, I don't I don't need to see that.

Honestly, man, it was rather anticlimactic. Like, it's it's it's a really just the dude laying there with his mouth wide open and him wincing and a bunch of doctors who are dressed in like street clothes, like nightclubbing clothes, saying suction, suction, suction, suction, a suction.

And then out it pops just completely, like, completely anticlimactic. But I got to say, his bone is that move might be, you know, holding a fish between your teeth.

Like, I kind of get that right. Like, I totally I've swallowed a split shot or two. I was holding our teeth, jaws.

Both hands were needed to unsnarl a bird's nest, you know what I mean? In the heat of the moment, while fishing, the mouth can become a third hand.

And the only other thing that popped into my head was I would rather suffer through almost choking on a live fish, having it in my throat than like deal with that when they can eru jobber's swims up the hill.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, that's it's a better outcome that yeah, I saw the same one and TMZ being a bastion of journalism and I just had a feeling you were going to take this one. So I was like that would be very highly of me.

Like you're like, oh Joe's. It's got Joe written all over the trash from TMZ.

Thanks. I'll be over here at some scientific journal.

Oh I didn't hear that sitesi this time.

In fact, my first story is not science at all, but it doesn't involve anybody almost choking on a fish. It does involve some some conflict and some drama around fishing though.

OK, so there is a brouhaha going on in my home state. OK, beach anglers and swimmers have been getting into scraps at one of Hawaii's most popular beaches all along. A beach park is a it's like this little oasis right in the middle of the island of Oahu, south shore. And that's that's the populated area of the Hawaiian Islands.

That's that's where Honolulu, the capital city, is, which is a significant city. And Waikiki, which is a very popular and very crowded swimming and surfing beach. So fishing at Waikiki Beach has been outlawed for a long time. And if you've ever been there like that makes perfect sense. Right? It's so crowded there with so many tours and so many swimmers and surfers, it would be nearly impossible to Castillon without hooking or entangling someone. And, you know, tourist don't like that.

So it makes perfect sense. But I'm just laughing to myself, thinking of, like, all the ass hats at the Jersey Shore or Fourth of July weekend, like, dude still going to throw a mullet rag, like between the swimming beach.

I get the swimming beach.

But anyway, go ahead. They're smarter than Hawaii.

I mean, it's just been regulated there. Right. And that's that's the thing. They live on tourism and they live on that beach. So they said no.

And I have to say, I have seen some tanker bonefish cruising around Waikiki Beach.

And it's super frustrating because they're just like, so arrogant and not like you can't touch me. Do. Yeah. What do you do? Yeah, but I mean, that's a little frustrating.

But again, it's understandable. I would want to fish there. That's a bad thing. And others beaches in that same area have been seeing more and more regulations imposed on fishing because it's a popular zone. But all the mwana has always allowed anglers and it's never really been much of a problem. Right. The beach has a man made channel dug in it. The parallels, the whole length of the beach.

So it's deep. It's Sandy, it's protected from the surf.

And that's why it's such a popular spot for swimmers. Right? Right. So in the past, fishermen have just avoided that area because for one, it's crowded and but more importantly, it's rarely been productive. And they focus on on the rocks just to the east in an area called Magic Island.

But this year, with covid Hoy's that beach closures and a travel ban and just a general lack of activity in that channel, and so these huge schools of baitfish have moved in.

Yeah, like big ones. Yeah. And of course, larger predatory fish followed. And now so have all the anglers. And dude, some of the photos I saw, it's just it looks like the whole thing is just devolved into utter chaos. It's like, so picture combat fishing, right? And your standard combat fishing gear. Well, yeah, you've got rods lined up, you know, four six feet apart, maybe the whole length of the beach, but then just throw in hordes of swimmers and kayakers and paddle boarders all over the water where they're casting.

And I guess people have started cutting lines and just like throwing lines out of their way, fights have broken out. Several swimmers report getting snagged by hooks like it's it's ugly.

So now the state is trying to come up with a solution, and that means regulations. Either they're going to close the beach, the fishing entirely, or they're going to limit fishing to certain areas.

And that looks like I mean, what that means is that South Shore anglers are going to lose more access. And it's just disappointing.

Man, it's a very tangled web. Yeah.

And but, I mean, I don't want to fish there. Like, that's not my scene. I'm not going. That's not the place I'm going to go.

Because you don't want to deny somebody else. If that's their spot, though, that's what they have in their hometown. That's where they go.

I just I just wish people could be a little more civil to each other and not need the state to come in and tell them, like, OK, you can fish here, but don't be like I wish there could just be some basic communication and we could figure this out on our own.

I realize that that's not how it's going to work, but it's just like part of a general trend I think we're seeing all over the place. And it's it's disappointing, like I said.

And the irony on this particular one, though, is that by next year. This probably is going to matter, right, the tourists are going to come back, all the people are going to come back, the baitfish pushed out and the conditions are going to go back to being what they used to be. But the rules and regulations are going to be in place then like that. Access is going to be gone. Well, that's.

But you just said something there, and that's that's kind of like the mental note I'm taking here. So, you know, by next year, the pandemic hopefully has gone away and the big fish will will leave the area again.

But if it's as chaotic as you're saying it is now.

So I get it right. It was low traffic throughout the whole pandemic, big fish moving to cut the bait. And, you know, there were a handful of dudes who got in on that first and were like, oh, shit, oh, I happen, oh.

But if it's as nuts as you're saying it is now, dude, I mean, how how good can it still be? I mean, isn't that like the instant angling buzz kill like totally.

You got there.

So what are they even fighting over like are they still ripping trolleys out of there, like, you know, ten a day or is it still as good as it was in the middle of the pandemic? I don't know. But I mean, I would guarantee it's not, as I say, clarification.

People that I've spoken to, the pandemic has passed. It is still we're still there in the middle of the lockdown.

But I mean, we saw we saw some of that around here in the early spring during striper season, like things were real good and there weren't that many dudes out.

And then as soon as everybody got comfortable, well, then they were out and those magic bullets weren't happening anymore.

Yeah, I think I think it's all over. And that's the thing. We're going to end up with a bunch of new rules out of this. And that's just too bad. Just I think it is. I think it's I think it's a loss.

Well, I'll also say you never want to see access taken away from Angler's totally with that at the same time, like, you know, I meant what I said.

Like, I see that in the summer with my kids on the beach, you know, it's a crowded beach. And I know the guy is really not trying to hurt anybody. But still, man, is it a great idea to to have to circle hooks sitting out there on, you know, in an area where there's people boogie boarding like, you know, first of all, why would you even want to do that?

Like, come back in the evening, get your ass up in the early morning and fish that that's when the fishing is good anyway, you know?

So, yeah, I kind of get that.

If you're familiar with first light, you know, they make the best clothes for hunting period, but what you might not know is that us anglers love our first light gear as well.

It's true. It's true. I wear the wick hoodie pretty much all year when I'm fishing, like fall season, it's replaced. All those synthetic sun shirts I used to wear keeps the sun off me. I don't overheated it and it's much softer and more comfortable than than that standard centered. Plus in cold weather, it makes an excellent and breathable bass layer. Yeah.

And the same performance clothing system that keeps you warm when you're sitting in a tree stand works great if you're out ice fishing or chasing steelhead run. Plus they offer solid colors in case you're not that dude who just casually wears camo.

Or if you're like me and you like to hunt and fish, you can pick up a set of solid outdoor clothing that works for either pursuit. I recommend the new Spectre camo pattern, especially if you're a white tail guy, whether you're in a hunting, fishing or both, first light will keep you comfy in the field.

Head over to first light dotcom and get yourself kitted out so you can keep fishing no matter what the weather does.

But if those anglers are struggling now because the crowds are back up and maybe those jets aren't running the cut like they were, I might have the solution for them based on this story, which comes to us from Arizona's East Valley Tribune headline, Wal-Mart Makes a man get chummy over his invention from the story, a fishing lure of sorts made by famous fishermen will soon hit the shelves of Wal-Mart after clearing a hurdle in the retail giant search for products made by Americans.

Small business owners, chum pods, water soluble pods of chum that can be used during fishing was created by Pierce Outdoors, a company formed by fisheries biologists and Mesa native Grant Pierce. The pods are similar to laundry detergent pods and are useful for fishermen looking to save time.

I assume by that they mean like not having to wait so long for a fish to eat their bait as is customary in fishing like the patients.

We've got to get going. We've got to pare down on the patients here.

But anyway, Pierce was one of a hundred and seventy five businesses that made it from a screening process involving 800 small businesses from across the country that pitch their U.S. manufactured products during a very quick 30 minute one on one meetings with Wal-Mart and Sam's Club exactly during their first ever virtual open call for four product for four businesses.

And apparently this is part of something that Wal-Mart launched in 2013 as a commitment to help boost job creation and U.S. manufacturing through buying an additional two hundred and fifty billion dollars in products supporting American jobs by twenty twenty three.

Right. So right off the bat, I have to say, if Wal-Mart is really holding to this initiative. Right. That's awesome. Right.

Cool call more more American manufacturing love. Absolutely. And also have to, you know, congratulate Grant for getting selected, considering the story says the most popular categories of products pitched during all these sessions were food, health and wellness and personal care.

So he got in with fishing tackle essentially. And I looked up this chum pod and it is clearly modeled after the tide pod, which is clever, clearly.

Right.

But what's most clever to me is unlike a chum product that you broadcast, you actually you bait your hook and then you add a chum pod to the end of your hook because it's light and small. And then you cast your bait out there and now the chum is going to dissolve right around your bait wherever it lands. And I'm not knocking the design at all.

Right. But every time I see something like this, I wonder, like, will this be the chum product that produces a shift in the consumption of such things? Because Lord knows I've seen them all and I've gotten samples of them all over the years and I've used most of them. And no matter how much I've wanted to believe, I just have not found anything like this that offers a very noticeable advantage. And I remember like in salt saltwater, you had Chom aerosol sprays and there was the bait bomb you'd send down on the line.

It would explode with depth, you know, and none of it ever seemed to work as well or better than just regular old ground up bunker Amoco chum. So I don't really see any prepackaged synthetics or these natural premixed chum's really interrupting the natural gem market in saltwater, but then in freshwater.

I'm curious if you agree.

Like, I just feel like the average dude who fishes freshwater doesn't incorporate chum or think about chumming that other than carp and catfish. Exactly, exactly. So that's that's that's one of the things I'm thinking about here.

It's like even if you sit in a lawn chair for stock trout, how many of that dude are you flipping on to, chum? And what she said about cats and carp is true.

That's where I see this stuff faulter. Like, yeah, it's always marketed to all types of anglers. Yet the only guys who I think would really latch on are carbon cap guys.

So if you call it, you know, catfish pods are carp pods maybe, but you've got to bluegill on the bag.

And if you need to chum to catch bluegills, like try golf, you know, figure skating, I don't know.

So, look, I wish Grant the best, right? I really do good on you. But because the consumer research really shown that these things tear it up, like, are we itching for more easy chumba options for fresh water?

I mean, here's what I said. I think there are enough hardcore cat fishing folks in this country to make a product like this work.

But if it were me and it's not and maybe he knows something about market research, I don't because I haven't dug into it. And that's not my area of expertise.

But I would be focusing it on that more niche demographic and not trying to go abroad. That's that's what that's what my gut would tell me to do. But again, I'm not a marketer, so what the hell do I know?

Yeah, no, no. And neither am I. But just just looking at the website like you see the bates' that these pods are paired with, they're clearly catfish and carp baits.

Yeah. Many, many episodes ago we took. About that that self baiting hook up thing with the corn that slid down, you're talking about that like this is useful to everyone, yet you watch the videos, it's all Palek Catfish.

So I think I appreciate sort of the innovation and the thought that goes into some of this stuff.

But I mean, at the same time, man, it's all designed for sitting on a piece of bait for a long time for a fish that is mostly feeding by smell. And, you know, I go by a half dozen shrimp.

If I want to go catch catfish, they work just fine. Like, I don't need to chum for them.

They just eat that. So, again, best of luck man. I just over the years it's been a lot of them. I just have not seen any of these like dude, you're not going to believe this product, this bait bomb, this chom bomb, this, this, that like they all come and go.

I'd say Grant's already won because he got into Wal-Mart to make some money.

He's going to buy what he had to do. Will just me a good gamble on their part, right?

Yes, exactly. I like that's the kind of thing I like to see in terms of someone being innovative and interesting in their attempt to make a living or make some money off of the outdoor community. But the story I'm about to drop is the exact opposite.

OK, so I've got a story about someone who I can only describe as a as a despicable human, a narcissist like it, a complete narcissist asset who considers his own social media feed and personal ego trip the most valuable commodity on the planet.

Lance V, even worse than Lance. Matt, I know it's amazing. I got to say, I'm not sure I should cover this story for a few reasons.

Oh, I'm getting more excited. Just keep talking. Yeah. I mean, the first reason is because this has been covered. It's got pretty decent play around outdoor money already. So it might be old news for some of our listeners. Second, because this this walking skid mark has just a vacuous soul that seems like it can only be filled with with public attention. And I'm worried that I'm by talking about him further, I'm only giving him what he wants.

And third, I'm just generally wary of the culture of outrage that we seem to be embracing. Right. Like we're defining ourselves by images and actions that we condemn publicly. And I don't want to feed in any of those three things. But all that said, I do condemn what this person is doing.

And my goal is not so much to inspire your outrage as to just get the word out about this so that no one supports this person's business. What are we talking?

I was like, I feel I know what you're what you're talking about. And I told him, I'm just feeling like malls.

We all have we have power in our wallets, not in like our keyboard cancellation desires. So so that's how we should do it.

OK, so David Lesch is a former professional skier whose new goal in life seems to be winning gold as an Internet troll. Since he failed at skiing last July, Leisz started building his personal brand as a desk creator of Public Lands and Waters when he was caught ripping a snowmobile around a designated wilderness area in Colorado. And let me reiterate, it was July.

There was no snow, so he was just tearing up a protected literally Tariana territory, protected and sensitive tundra ecosystem for kicks.

And he got caught by the executive director of the foundation that looks after that area, got fined five hundred dollars in order to perform 50 hours of community service. After that, he rode a dirt bike, unprotected grasslands, drove his snowmobile around a private ski resort while it was closed and, quote, accidentally crashed his brand new plane in California's Half Moon Bay. And I say accidentally in air quotes, because investigators are still looking into the suspicious circumstances surrounding the crash because less just happened to be in a position to skip his plane across the surface and come to a stop lightly and easily, completely unharmed after the plane lost power.

And he also just happened to have cameras set up to capture the whole thing and its aftermath perfectly to create a viral video showing how badass he is before sinking a massive jet fuel oil and other contaminants into the ocean.

And then starting in June, he really, really embraced his image as a self-interested outdoor influencer. He's the guy that the Instagram accounts, Turin's of Yellowstone and Indirect were made for. And you should check those out because, like, seriously, this is it's him.

So first he posted a photo of himself walking and swimming in an area that's closed to protect sensitive habitat and archaeological sites. That incident earned him five federal citations. Then this October, he posted another picture of himself taking a dump in the iconic Maroon Lake near Aspen. So the background paints the stunning picture of a high mountain fall landscape like soaring snow, skiff peaks and aspen groves, glowing orange and yellow in fall colors in this crystal clear prismatic lake. And then the whole thing is ruined by leisz butt naked, hanging onto a deadfall tree and dropping a deuce right in the water.

And the symbolism there is just too on the nose, man, you can't make that up. Now, I've got to say, Leisz and many of his fans and supporters are claiming that everyone's just getting trolled and worked up over a joke. The photo was doctored and none of it actually happened.

And fans, he has felt like there are people who actually are like thousands that support this and think this is all cool. Yeah, OK.

And I guess it doesn't matter whether it was photo shopped enough, like the guy has built this image of coolness around disrespecting our waterways and the impact of how those photos will influence the behaviors and attitudes of the millions of people have seen them is a whole lot more detrimental than a single turd in a lake. Last week, a judge barred Leisz from all federal public lands, that's every federally controlled public land, millions and millions of acres of public land across the country for at least the duration of the federal court case against him.

And I think that's a start. But I really hope that ban extends for the rest of his life. You and I don't have any control of that sentencing. Like, we can't decide what the judge is going to do or how he's going to sentence or anything. But here's what we can control. Leisz, somewhat ironically, owns an outdoor clothing brand called Vertica, yes. So I would like all of us to make sure that we and anyone who we can convince never gives that brand a single dollar.

Let me say it again, Vertica with a K and there's a made for super sporty people. Yeah. Yeah. So it wouldn't fit me anyway. So screw you.

There's there's also a citizen led petition circulating right now to revoke his business license, and I signed it. I mean, do I even donated a few bucks to the cause?

So if the last deal says if you if you're one of the people who follows this this jackass just to stop, like, jerk off like this guy don't deserve the power and influence that they've accrued and they won't go away until we ignore them.

So I just hope I also hope he loses his business. And I hope that that people stop paying attention to him and he just disappears. That's what I think that's the best possible outcome first.

I don't know how I'm not up on this. I guess I'm just not really paying enough attention to to the news here.

But I got to say, we in the outdoors, there have been so many things like fish pictures and so many different things that we've latched on to and like sort of berated guys. So to have somebody particularly go for the throat like that, I didn't I never I never thought I would I would see such a thing like you are. There's no such thing as bad press, which is obviously what's going on here.

So even like when we've in our industry had people ripping on dudes about holding a fish that was pulled off a rat or whatever, it comes and it goes and there's arguments on both sides.

But to see somebody just embrace being an outlaw jackass to this level, I don't know, man.

It's mind boggling. What do you do with that guy?

You know, like like I said, I hope that you the only way you can kick him in the stones is by hurting his bottom line. Right. Like, I'm again, I fear that I'm feeding into exactly what he wants because I'm giving him more attention, which he clearly craves. But I'm doing it not because I want people to get outraged. I'm doing it because, like, I want to see his businesses fail and I'd like to see him broke.

Well, I agree with that.

I'd also like to see him come out and do a tuna charter with the Brooklyn V out of Brooklyn, New York, and act like a jerk off on that trip 80 miles off with them boys.

Well, we certainly don't support we don't want you to support us, but we do support fishing guide Hilary Hutchison, who's very awesome and a steward of the outdoors and appositive Leisz.

Yes, exactly.

And as soon as as soon as Phil weighs in to decide who wins the the the whole kit and caboodle here this week, we're going to kick it over to a tackle hack for the ages from our friend Hillary.

It's going to make you a little uncomfortable, but you're going to go, damn, that was that was one of the smartest things I heard all week.

For his story of the fish, you looked around at 20, 20 for mere seconds before he had seen enough and for introducing the nation's youth to, I'm sure, what will be known as the Chum Pod Challenge. Joe Somali is the winner this week. Back to the future.

Part two got a lot wrong about the year. Twenty twenty. There were definitely not enough pod products, not enough dishwasher pods, tide pods, chum pods. But I'd say the most egregious lack of foresight was that Marty McFly had the chance to go see Jaws 19 in a real life movie theater full of people rather than as a drop on HBO.

Max Plus Prime bring on the vaccine so I can drown myself in butter flavored topping. I'm getting calls from inside the city. I picked up my dad's. Joining us today for the tackle hacks is our good friend, Hilary Hutchison, who's a good friend of the show and a friend of mine. It's great to see you. How are you, Hillary? Hey, what's up?

Most people probably don't know this, but the first time Hillary and I actually hung out was years ago when we were both at the same lodge in Alaska and due to weather got completely socked in. And we're unable to to leave that lodge for, I think, like four days. So we just we just fished the local river as much as we could and and raided the liquor cabinet at the lodge every single day until it was time to go home.

Yeah, it was not terrible. And we were highly successful at both of those things in the pouring rain, pouring pouring rain, which is why, you know, as you mentioned, we couldn't leave the lodge to go out to the surrounding fisheries, but it was awesome. I was like, they need to put that program on the brochure because we had a ball.

It was so much fun. It really was that it was like there was a weather window when we could fly in and like we couldn't fly again until it was our day to fly out. It was just we were just stuck there on the island with tons of liquor and rainbow trout and silver salmon. So it was it was not bad.

I was stranded once due to weather like that, only it was somewhere where there was nowhere to walk to fish. And all the dudes I was with did not drink. So that sounds like a good time.

You guys had that one time. That sounds like maybe you were actually on television show Lost in some sort of purgatory.

Anacostia's island, Quebec. Anyway, this is not my segment. You keep going.

We did we did have have good times on that one. And I remember it fondly, but we didn't actually bring you here to reminisce about Alaska fishing. We brought you here to lay a tackle hike on us. So what are you guys?

Well, you know, we have a prime dry fly season here in northwest Montana. I'm on the middle fork in the north fork of the flathead. And people are coming here for world class drive fly fishing, which means you have to keep the fly dry. And all the regular hacks are the ones that, you know, I have done forever and ever like. Everybody kind of uses that shamy on the inside of their shirt, but I fish the whitewater stretch and so I'm in and out of the water all the time.

And and then people use like their shamy for their sunglasses all the time. But again, like, put that in my pocket. I'm just soaking wet all the time so those get wet and Amadu patch is like thirty dollars and once those things get wet they stay wet. So I found something I think is pretty unorthodox. I haven't seen anybody else do it and it works super good and I suggest other people to try it. I started cutting into squares, sanitary napkins like maxi pads or panty liners, the thin ones that thin ones.

And you can get them cheap and you can go to Costco. Miles, why don't you go to Costco? You buy like the jumbo pack of the thin panty liners or maxi pads, and then you cut them into squares and you don't need to get the brand name ones. You just get the cheapo Fred Meyer ones or whatever. And and the reason I cut them into squares is so that they don't look like what they are. So you don't have, like, wings.

And so the client doesn't look back and and see me like squeezing a fly with a maxi pad. And then they take it back and, like, put it in their mouth or something. So so, yeah, I cut them into squares or circles or something so that you can't tell or rectangles or something, so that it doesn't look like what it is and so that it can be small and just in your hand. And I have done a couple of things.

One, I have double stick tape them into the inside of my Ghedi go box. So like my big waterproof tackle box and so that I can just like push the fly up against it. And then I have also had them in stacks, like I can have a whole stack of them for the whole season and you can reuse them because they just absorb and you just kind of keep keep them in there and keep reusing them. And so it just squeeze it on there and it just takes the the water right out.

So and if they get wet, it's crazy. So I don't know if you guys know the science behind a maxi pad, but they if they get wet, all the moisture goes to the bottom and the top layer of them still stays dry. And that's the whole point. Like that's why you see in the commercials, they're like, keep you dry all day.

So keep your fly dry all day. And so so unlike the other things, like an Amadu patch or or your shamy or whatever, those once they get wet, they're wet. Once this gets wet, like if you keep in your pocket and you dump it out like the bottom of it, it gets like heavy and kind of stays wet. But the top still works. So you still you get to continue to use it. So it's it's a good one.

I know it sounds weird and I can't wait. To like fish with some of my buddies in southwest Montana who are just like a man's man and they go by all the, you know, Maxey places as unconventional, as weird as you may think that is, it is the best tackle hack we have had yet by far.

By far, far and away. Yep, I know.

And and I cannot wait to see the the jump in sales for generic maxi pads as soon as this particular episode airs has not sponsored.

I do not have a paid partnership.

If any of those companies do want to get on with the support of this podcast, we are welcome to entertain smokers always looking for advertisers.

Absolutely amazing.

If you guys had this podcast sponsored by like I stay free, I would be awesome.

I think we're going to just call that a life goal and say thank you so much, Hilary, for coming on again and for dropping that nugget of wisdom on us any time.

That's what I'm here for, brother.

That's a good one.

And so right after we recorded that, I actually raided the the bathroom cabinet and stuck a couple of panty lines in my fly-Fishing yet, I haven't I haven't had a chance to use them yet because, you know, it's cold, but I'm looking forward to doing it and like, actually trying that I wouldn't drive last season comes back around, you know what I'll admit?

And I did the same thing, like Hillary brought the freakin fire with that tackle pack. She just put everyone else past and present, tackle hackers on notice. And though we didn't actually do anything, if you think about it, other than make stupid comments throughout the whole thing, I'm proud that we offered up some legit, useful knowledge this week. And while we're almost out of time, we do have one more tidbit for you guys.

Yeah, it's a it's time for end of the line, but this week we're going to change things up just just a little bit.

Yeah, it's kind of like point counterpoint, perhaps.

CROSSFIRE, Miles, is actually going to take the lead on a rig that truly rocked the world of fishing. And I'm going to jump in right after him for a minute or two and tell you why the whole thing is bullshit.

It's not loud enough, but. Technically speaking, the Alabama rig shouldn't fit this segment because it isn't a lure, bait or fly, but we're making an exception on this one.

The rig is a spider web of Spok like aluminum arms that radiate out from a central jig head and are tipped with five or more separate lures, usually soft plastic swim baits. Those aluminum arms can also feature spinner blades in the middle of them, and the resulting morass of conglomerated fish. Attractors essentially allows anglers to cast and retrieve an entire school of simulated bait fish.

Supposedly, and not surprisingly, they could be quite effective, I say supposedly because I myself have never fished in a rig, but their impact is hard to dispute. The Alabama rig was invented by a guy named Andy Potts, who claims he came up with the idea while watching tuna chase sardines on the Blue Planet documentary series. That makes for a good story, but I find it a little suspect for reasons that Joe will cover in just a minute. Whatever his inspiration built a prototype of the rig in his garage in Muscle Shoals, Alabama, in July 2011.

In October of that same year, professional bass angler Paul Elias had one opuses prototypes in the boat with him while competing in an FLW event on Lake Guntersville. Alaska wasn't doing so hot at the outset.

In fact, he hadn't voted a single fish when he decided to try out passes Rick. And then he caught 15 pounds of fish in forecasts. After that, he returned to the spots where he'd blanked earlier in the day and landed 20 more fish. Elias won the tournament, and the Irig became the biggest controversy in bass fishing overnight. Within a year of its invention, it was banned from bass tournaments, and within three years it became illegal in all major bass tournaments, circuits fishing one in or out of competition is now against the law in eight states.

Suffice to say, lots of people got real mad at this rig real quick, much of the a rig hate out there gets cloaked in seemingly rational conservation arguments.

Some call a rigs problematic because anglers often catch multiple fish at once. But that doesn't hold up to basic scrutiny. The vast majority of Bass anglers are releasing their catches.

And even if they are keeping dinner, the bag limit doesn't change just because they're catching multiple fish at once. Another dig in the interest of fish welfare stems from claims that fish often get foul hooked by a rigs. But no one offers any evidence that foul hooked fish suffer a higher mortality rate on release. In fact, I'd argue that a wound in the flank or the back is far less detrimental than a hook deep in the mouth back near the gills.

So that one doesn't work for me either. Finally, many states ban these rigs by claiming that they have too many hooks. But those same states have no issue with anglers throwing lures tipped with three separate troubles for a total of nine barbed hook points. And if I have a math right, that's four more than on a standard rig. Let's just stop with the holier than thou conservation cloak and call this what it is.

People hate a rigs because they're seen as too effective, which makes them feel like cheating. Anglers are competitive, so even though fishing isn't baseball, a rig catches gets snubbed like the Barry Bonds home run record. Ultimately, eight rigs are like anchored putters, adhesive football gloves and laser Speedos. People refused to use them not because they don't work, but because they think doing so diminishes the sport of fishing and they view anglers who do use them as morally deficient.

But if we can set aside that subjective sense of superiority, I think we'll all recognize that we got to give and pass credit whether we choose to fish Arabs or not, whether we hate him or not. His invention has had a bigger impact on fishing than anything else in at least a generation.

See, I give Antipas zero credit because as far as me and every other stripe in from Maine to Delaware is concerned, the Irig has existed since the 1950s or 60s, maybe earlier.

We're not hundred percent sure, but we are sure they were called umbrella rigs and I'm very sure I hate salty umbrella rigs as much as I hate freshwater rigs, according to my research legend has it.

A skipper in Montauk, New York, got the idea for the umbrella rig after watching the skipper in Nova Scotia pull strips of beer cans on a metal bar that was likely for tuna, though not stripers. So is this all bullshit? Perhaps.

But regardless, salty umbrella rigs have a wingspan of up to four feet and can feature a dozen or more rubber shad's surgical tube teasers or light metal spoons. They were traditionally slow trolled on wire line, both to help get them deeper and to stand up to the resistance they create, especially after a big cow backlash latches on.

These days, guys pull umbrella rigs on Heavy Brade and somehow use that to claim it's more sporting than the wire days. I frankly don't care what you pull an umbrella rig on, I find it boring as hell. Note I did not say it's ineffective because much like the A rig, it catches a massive fish.

I also did not say there's no art to slow trolling stripers because there is you can't simply heave an umbrella rig overboard and kick back with a beer.

You have to know how to adjust the trolling speed based on the current how to get the rig to the proper depth and where to actually pull the thing. But once you figure all that out, then you can just sit back with a beer and wait while the boat dribbles along at an obnoxious two miles per hour. I'm sorry, but my addiction to strippers comes from the hit. I love seeing one boil on a popper. I love on my live bunker gets nervous and you know, he's about to get tail thumped and inhaled.

I love the dead stop when I'm real and ashad around the tip of a jetty. Slow trolling umbrella's robs you of all that good stuff.

You just wait for the broomstick to bend in half, grab the rod and steadily really in the three hundred feet of wire or braid behind the boat. It's no fun if you ask me, and in my opinion serves only as a means to get back in the box, not as a means to enjoy all the sporting qualities they offer. Antipas just stole the classic NE rigt, shrunk it down to a barely passable size and called it a bass bait, inadvertently creating the only umbrella rig that cannot be fished effectively while drinking a Budweiser or Narragansett.

Well, that's all we have for you this week for those of you looking to run this down on the AP wire. I have a problem with the Java graphic is the answer to life's ultimate question, like an insta filter version of the number 42. And Hillary Hutchison knows how to give your dry fly's wings.

If you enjoyed any of that, help us spread the word. Tell your friends, tell your local tackle shop, give us some stars. And if you're feeling inspired, maybe drop us a line. Send those emails to bent at the media to com. Unless, of course, you fish Alabama rigs, in which case to send in the miles, because I don't really want to hear from you until next week.

We're hoping you can find some water that's either thawed enough to reel through or frozen enough to walk on.

And if not, maybe just catch up on back episodes of the show.

And when you run out of those Look-Up fishing with Jon on YouTube, you'll thank me later.