Transcribe your podcast
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Hey, before we started the show, I wanted to give you some cool news about a chance that you may have to appear on the bigger pocket's podcast on a bonus. Ask me anything episode. Really? So here's the deal. You know, we think bigger pockets. We think real estate investing is amazing. It's like the best thing since sliced bread.

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I don't know who came up with that phrase, but it's awesome. Right. And I've heard from thousands of people who tell me that has changed their lives for the better, just like it's changed mine.

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Now, if you agree with that, I've got a really easy way for you to share the good news of the bigger pockets real estate podcast with people in your network. And you might just win a chance to be on this show. So here's how to do it. Go to bigger pockets. Dotcom's I share. That's bigger pockets. Dotcom slash HAARP. You're going to need a link there that you can share with people you know.

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And if ten of those people check out the show, then you are entered in for a chance to appear right here with me and David on a bonus Q&A episode of the Bigger Pockets podcast. Besides, then, all your friends get to see the power of real estate investing as well. And who knows, maybe someone will do a deal with you someday. All right.

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Well, thank you and enjoy the show. This is the Bigger Pocket's podcast show. Four hundred and sixteen.

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Yeah, it's about two hundred and fifty thousand square feet of commercial space I'm negotiating on. If I close this deal by the end of the year, all on my portfolio sites will be about fifty million. And I'm approaching a million of your passive income.

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You're listening to bigger pockets. Radio simplifying real estate for investors, large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from bigger pockets. Dotcom, your home for real estate, investing online.

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Hey, what's going on here? I want to bring in Turner, host of the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, Mr. David Greene. David, you every one of those recordings of a show where you're just like you talked for like an hour and you feel like you could talk for, like, nine hours. Yes.

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And today was one of those shows, if that's what you're getting at. This is one of my favorite podcasts that we've ever done. Today's guest is absolutely mind blowing. Lee Smart.

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Yeah. So good. So our guest today is a gentleman. I'm going to I guess I'm going to put your last name, even though he helped me, what, kind of like ten times. Matt, I know for you.

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I think that's right. I felt bad for you. That's pretty good, right? Very good. Thanks.

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So Matt is so I just cool is the best word I can use to say is like if you think of a cool real estate investor, like he just he hasn't been in a very long a few years already owns he's coming up on fifty million dollars of real estate that he owns. And that's not like in a fund like he just buys real estate. His first deal did it with basically no money down. Most of his deals he does with almost no money down, makes use come up on a million dollars a year in passive income.

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It's just it's crazy. You're going to hear how he does it through commercial real estate. And if that scares you, don't let it. He keeps it very simple, easy, understand. And this show might just change the entire direction of your investing, because I know it's making David and I have some much needed conversations about where we're headed in the future, which is kind of cool. So, yeah, good stuff. Good stuff today. That said, let's get today's quick tip.

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Today's quick tip is brought to you by David Greene. What you got, David? I knew this was coming. Thank you, Brandon. Today's quick tip is don't just focus on what is right in front of you. Work on having a vivid vision to help you see where you're going to go. So we talk about this a little bit in today's show. Brandon is very big on this. It's one of the things that I've learned when it comes to being more successful is to know where you're going, work backwards from there, as opposed to just staring at what's right in front of you.

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And you keep working on that. So oftentimes when you have very clear direction of where you want your life to look like what you want, your investment to look like, the right steps to take just sort of materialize. And you can understand where you're going. And we put off putting the vision together until after we are already moving forward. That can be a mistake. So take some time to find yourself, get away, find a quiet place, really ask yourself what I want my life to look like.

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How do I want investing to support that? Come up with that plan, then start lining up the practical steps that you need to take to get there. Wow.

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That's good man. Good job for four winging it. That's good. Yeah. Well before it's Today Show, let's get to today's show sponsors. Here's the thing I love most about real estate investing. There's so many different ways to build wealth in this business. Like did you know there's a way to invest in real estate that gives you a similar cash flow to rental properties, but without tenants repairs or vacancy? That's right. I'm talking about real estate not investing.

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Now I think we just got to jump in this interview because y'all are going to love it. You're going to love Matt. So without further ado, let's bring in Matt.

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I know for you, Matt. Welcome to the show, man. It's awesome to have you here.

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Thanks, Brandon. Great to be here. Yeah.

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So you came on my radar because you a lot like we both work with Jason Douridas as a performance coach. We had Jason back on the show a few a few months ago, and he consistently raves about you as somebody who takes massive action and is getting a lot of success in real estate. And so I thought they would be fun to kind of unpack. How do you got into that, how you went from. I think you are a doctor, right?

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Anesthesiologist. All right.

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Nurse anesthetists. Yeah, OK. Why don't we know what that means? But whatever that is and you went from that into now you're no longer that. Is that right?

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Correct. Yeah, I'm I'm still here and at the hospital, but most of my hours are spent on real estate now. OK, yeah. Kind of started from nothing but parents did mission work so we lived overseas and I came back, tried a couple of different things in school. I worked as a paramedic, firefighter and nurse prior to getting into Mayo Clinic, where I went to school there for five years. And then I started working in the operating rooms and I just realized that I didn't want to do that for the rest of my life.

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Yeah, so you I'm assuming you had quite a bit of student loan debt that that's your age. You work your way through it.

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I worked my way all the way through, actually, so I funded probably two hundred fifty thousand through scholarships. I would work twenty four hour shifts and the weekends as a firefighter paramedic. And then I worked a year in ICU as a nurse prior to going to get my doctorate. That's cool.

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All right. So then walk us through your journey like you decided at some point you're like, I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. You're probably making good income at the time. So you had to figure out how to get from making good income to not working, you know, 40, 50, 60 hours a week. So how did that start? Where did you have an idea of I want to go into real estate where that come from?

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Actually, I was at Mayo Clinic and I went over to a resident's house friend of mine, a surgeon. And he was I went into the house and there were like four other people in the kitchen. And I said, Randy, who are all these people? I said, well, I rent out rooms to him. And he bought a house for about one hundred and fifty thousand. And he was bringing in probably three thousand or something a month in rent on the house.

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I thought this is really interesting. And he was also on a 12 unit apartment building that he was rehabbing at the time during general surgery residency while having two kids. And I'm like, if he can do it, surely I can. That's cool.

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That's cool. Yeah. There's there's there's moments in everyone's life where, like, something triggers then to be like, oh, I could do that, you know, like I'm curious, David. I mean, it's a show about Matt. I'm curious, David. I don't remember what what was your, like, real estate. Aha moment.

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When I hired a property manager, I had bought my first property. I shortchanged every single form of due diligence. I didn't run a credit check. I got one application. I said, OK, let's give it a try. I'll be good to him and he'll be good to me. And this will be a nice, harmonious relationship. Totally didn't happen that way. I got played by someone who knew how to be a tenant way better than I knew how to be a landlord.

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And I just thought I was I never should have done this. I had all these thoughts go through my head like everyone else does. You're an idiot. Why would you even think you could buy a house? It's so hard. Why would you think you could do that? And then I hired a property manager and in one decision and they weren't even that good, every single one of those thoughts went away and it became, this is the easiest thing ever.

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All I have to do is save the money and pick the house and make sure that cash flows and it all works out good. And when I realized that, I just thought, this is so simple, if I just work hard, save money and buy houses and wait, I will eventually build a lot of wealth. And that's kind of what I got addicted to it. So I'd like to ask you the same question, Matt. When did you buy your first deal and what sort of mindset shift happened from man?

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This seems so hard and so scary to oh, this is really just kind of boring. Yeah, so my first deal actually was a 14 unit apartment building with a partner during that to just go, I didn't really get any of the textbooks. I just in the back of class and during that time I was melder called every single apartment building owner in the city. And I was really into it. I found a deal that I didn't have any money at the time and I wouldn't qualify for a loan since I was in school.

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And so I went to the partner and I said, hey, if you'll give me 20 percent equity in this deal, I'll run it for you. And I think I can double your money. And it was a 14 year apartment building that had a couple of units that were really low on rent because it was an older building. They were looking at tearing it down. So I took it over, ran it for the guy. We bought it for, I believe, eight hundred and fifty thousand.

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And after I took some of the rents up, coin, coin laundry in the basement, started charging for parking. We had a very different nanowire than when we started and we were able to sell that four months later. And he made quite a bit of money and I walked away with a check for about sixty one thousand after tax. That was my first deal.

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Dude and dude died. When was this? Yeah, probably three years ago. OK, we should unpack the strategy. That's really good.

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Yeah, this is so cool. This is what I teach all the time, people. But when they say they have no money and then the natural assumption is when people think I have no money, they go, well I guess they can't get into real estate. And the funny thing, like what I say is you really got to have like three things. You got to have knowledge of what you're doing, which you had, because you were learning, you were reading.

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You were like trying to figure that stuff out. You had hustle. You don't have knowledge. You have to have hustle somebody to make the phone calls, the call, the properties to do all that work. Right. And then you have to have money to put together a deal, but you don't have to have all three of those things. You really only have to have two of them. So if you don't have the money, bring the knowledge, bring the hustle.

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And like you, you only ask for twenty percent equity in that deal.

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Like, you know, why did you not ask for fifty fifty. Why. Like why didn't you ask for more than that. Miscarries.

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Well I just think that I knew that I had to get started and I wanted the first one to be successful for him. And I knew that if I did a good job for him, he would continue to bring me on in other deals.

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But yeah, I think just the law, the first deal dude ever, like I said, it's a lot, but it's like everybody who's new right now struggling with trying to put the other deal needs to win the last three minutes and listen to that story of your first deal again, because this is a perfect illustration of what we're talking about, the short time your wealth is not built from that first property. Now, you made really good money at first deal, which is awesome.

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And I love that you didn't start with like a you know, a single family house, a duplex. You like to start it like, you know, with some gut there. That's awesome.

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But like, you started without putting money in, like they they brought the capital. And who cares if you would have made zero dollars. How would you feel today, Matt, if you would, on end of that deal if he doubled his money? And at the end of that, you you did a ninety nine point nine percent compared to point one percent and you made like twelve dollars at the end. How would you feel today?

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It wouldn't make any difference. I'd be in the same position and still be financially free. That's it.

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Because the first deal doesn't build you well. The first deal gives you the momentum, gives you confidence, gives you excitement, gives you contact, gives you like that reputation.

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That's what it's all exactly. So good.

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OK, so you did that first deal with this. Now, why did you why did you start with the bigger deal? Why didn't you start like everyone else does, buy a house, rent out the bedrooms, or like I did, I bought a duplex to rent it out after my house. I've been bought a duplex rented. Why didn't why did you just step up and start at such a higher level?

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Well, I think it's a unique situation. I was living in my grandparents garage during school. It was like this art display room in the back. And so I was I was just at a point where I didn't really have any money. And so it was just like, well, I don't even have enough money to put down on a regular house. And after I did the 40 year apartment building, I got to weather called physician loans that are similar to VA loans.

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So it's no money down, no mortgage insurance. And I was able to house both of those. And I quickly realized I didn't want to be in single family or in apartments, period.

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Why is that talk? Why not single family? Why not apartments then?

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Well, I think the single family I was renting out to nurses, so I'd rented out by the room and I was making good money. But you just were dealing with people not getting along sometimes or just I just realized the scalability wasn't there. I was like long term. This isn't where I want to go. And I started doing more reading and came across the book Vivid Vision, which you did as well. And that's kind of where I decided to step away.

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And and it's also you do deals like the people that are around you. And I started putting myself around people who are doing different kind of deals. And it's like, well, we do Triplette deals. So I guess that's what I'm doing, you know? Yep.

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Do that's so good. And this is, again, another point I want to stress. I remember back in the day Kevin Carroll, actually, he was on our podcast. I am I can't remember what episode it was, but Kevin was a buddy of mine. He's actually was the way I got connected with Jason Dreis Back in the day because Kevin did use him. So Kevin had said this great line on the podcast. When we interviewed him, he said, yeah, my first year I just did one hundred deals because I didn't know that's wasn't normal.

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He didn't realize that wasn't what you do.

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And so like, he approached it with like well of course that's just that's just what you do. You just do a. One hundred deals because he was surrounding himself with people who did 100 deals, and that's just what you did, and so he didn't approach it, like when you surround yourself with people who do single family, nothing wrong with single family, but you're going to likely do that. So you surround yourself with people that were at a whole new level.

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I would also argue that and this is a point we could talk an entire show just on this topic. And I talked to Jason Dreis a lot about this. And that is there is this like mindset that I feel like because you are making such good income at your career, you were naturally at a mindset that was very different than somebody that was maybe making 12 dollars an hour at their career.

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And it has nothing to do with how much money you are making, but it has everything to do with how much money you are making. And what I mean by that is, is like a confidence thing like today. If I lost everything today, everything and I had zero dollars and I had zero, and even if I had zero contact, I had nobody in the district, nothing. And I start over and if you are the exact same. But if you lost everything today and David, if you lost everything today, we would not start back over trying to buy a single family house and rent out the bedrooms.

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Probably we would probably start a whole new level because we are in our mindset. It has nothing to do with our resources, but it's our mindset. And I wouldn't even be thinking, how do I buy a single family house? I would be thinking, how do I buy 100 unit apartment building or one hundred unit mobile home park? Because that's where my mindset is that David would be thinking, how do I how do I hire twelve agents right now underneath me and build a real estate agent empire?

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Because that's where your mindset that you could just do that. And it has nothing to do with money, it has everything to do with mindset. What do you think on that matter? I mean, I know you're in that that mindset world as well. One hundred percent, I hired Jason, actually, because I heard about him through you back in March and yeah, I mean, since then I've changed my. And the funny thing is he doesn't talk about strategy, but, you know, he influences your strategy.

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And so for me, I was struggling and finding deals. And he said, well, why don't we go to some different towns? Why don't we go to different states? Why don't we try different brokers? Why don't we try some different strategies and just kind of continue to try to shake it up until you find something that works? And so I would say it absolutely has changed. It was a huge roadblock for me to stop spending as many hours at the hospital and trading my time for money to be able to to move on and realize, wow, you know, there's a whole different life out there.

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That's I.

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I almost feel like we do a disservice to a lot of the people who are new, particularly who are saying, what do I do to get started? And we tell them, well, here's what you do. Here's how it works and you hear it. And even though you have the information, you don't actually go put it into practice. This is really where we started the Mindset podcast was to help with this fact because those who are successful that are doing it understand the inherent value and momentum.

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What you said, Brandon, I think it doesn't get talked about enough saying here's what you do isn't actually, for most people going to be enough to get him to do it. It's the momentum that comes from what you said, Brandon, already being successful at something. There's something that clicks in your mind when like, let's take Matt, for example. You're working in a hospital, you're seeing the role a doctor plays, you're seeing the role you play, you're seeing a role in nurse plays.

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You're picking up the rhythm of how this whole thing is structured. You're seeing who makes more money in this transaction and who doesn't. You're seeing that the fact insurance is a part of it allows for wealth to be distributed amongst people. You're picking up on a lot of detail and nuance that someone who just shows up at a hospital that basically just is experiencing fear or worry. They're in such an emotional state because they're in the hospital. They don't see how the moving pieces are fitting together.

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And there's an inherent understanding that comes from that, that when you go apply it into your real estate ventures, you knew right off the bat, I need to find people to do these parts. You knew what it looked like to be with someone who was good at what they did because you had seen doctors operating on people. And that that's a piece that one of the things I always tell people is if you want to be better at real estate investing, start being good at what you do right now, start getting promoted, start taking more responsibility, start getting out of your own head and looking at what's your boss going through and what your co-workers going through, what is makes their job hard.

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What could they do better? Because that momentum absolutely carries over into the other world. And it's a better approach than saying I'm not happy where I am. Real estate is my magic pill to get out of it. If you knew real estate was what was going to build you wealth, but you approached real estate with the mindset that made you successful with what you're doing. And I just want to commend you for that and really highlight it to the people that are frustrated that their real estate investing is not taking off like they thought it might be, that you're going at it without any momentum and that you need to build that momentum first and then crash into this new endeavor.

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So what came next? You decided that you didn't want to be where you were. You wanted some more freedom. You wanted to I'm guessing you were deciding I wanted to grow your wealth instead of just making more money. Is that pretty much like what was motivating you?

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Absolutely. Yeah. I was trying to think, well, what actually replaces my income? Right. I kind of made this goal to myself. If I could replace the money that I was making, I would be able to step away at that point. So May 16th of twenty nineteen, I ended up buying a strip mall that was my next purchase and was able to get creative on the financing on that. And that was kind of the first large deal that I did.

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It was sixteen or seventeen months ago.

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Wow. So you you haven't even been in this for four decades. This is this is all pretty recent stuff. I want to I want to talk about the strip mall. I want to unpack that. But first, can I just ask, where are you at today? I mean, like you said I said earlier, you're not full time anymore at work, right? You're not the full time at the hospital. So, like, what's your what's your whatever you can share portfolio wealth, cash flow.

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What's that like today? And then we're Nampak the last year and a half.

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Yeah. It's about two hundred and fifty thousand square feet of commercial space I'm negotiating on. If I close this deal by the end of the year, all on my portfolio size will be about fifty million and I'm approaching a million of your passive income.

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That's crazy. That's crazy. And this is all in commercial real estate at this point.

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Yes. I'm in the wrong in the wrong industry.

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You know, let's go back to the strip mall. So here you are. You're basically brand new to real estate. You've done that first year. You take a little piece of it. You've done some house hacking stuff, and then you're like, I'm going to go buy a strip mall. Like, first of all, how does that get in your like, how did that happen?

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How do you find the property? Walk us through that journey of that entire property and what you did.

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Yeah. So the time I was calling brokers, I was trying to develop relationships and I was actually a vice president of a bank who came to me, who was also a broker, any kind of developer who tended to the property. His play was to build the. Buildings, but the tenants and sell them move on to the next building and he said, you know where the strip mall, I think he would help you with some of the financing.

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Are you interested? And I said, sure, how do we do it? And so it ended up being 80 percent bank loan, 15 percent seller carry and then five percent. I actually raised his private money and I held the property for about ended up being five or six months before I had an offer. I couldn't resist to sell it. Wait, how long did you hold it for? About five months. That's crazy. So you almost like flipped basically flipped a strip mall for your first deal.

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The first deal. OK, that's that's awesome.

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I want to unpack this for those who are new, maybe doesn't understand why some of these terms are so out of 100 percent of the property, the price of it.

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How much was it, by the way, to point to five million out of two point two? Five million, roughly 80 percent of that came from a bank that financed it. Yes. That leaves 20 percent left that you had to come up with. But out of that 20 out of that 20 percent or 15 of that 20 the seller carried, which means you paid the seller every month. Instead, he basically acted as a bank, is that right?

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Correct. All right.

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And then the final five percent, which normally then people would be like, well, I thought I got to come out of pocket with that one, but I don't have five percent of two point twenty five million.

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You raised that through private money, which is awesome. This is how like this is creative real estate investing to a T.. I mean, I talk about this a lot in the book on investing in real estate with no money down and that it's rarely one thing. It's I'm using I'm pulling in some private money here. I got this bank loan here. I got the seller financing here. I wrapped it all in together and made it work. So that's cool.

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So then you held up for a few months. You sold it. How did that deal end up turn it out? You said offer you couldn't refuse. So yeah, I made like five hundred and forty thousand and then I did to ten thirty one exchange into a large office deal. So I won. The deal was like seven point nine million. Wow.

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Seven million. OK, so let's talk through the ten through an exchange for those who don't know what that is and that may change in the future. Let's let's make sure that if depending how the election. Yeah, we'll see. Yeah. So it's a tax, it's a tax deferred exchange and there's somewhat of a time component to it also, but also an intent piece. And so most of what I do is all off market, unsolicited kind of a thing.

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And so that's where an attorney can get more comfortable maybe with it being a shorter amount of time. But yeah, so we just swap out the two rules of the property or it has to be the same amount of debt or greater in the same amount of price or greater.

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And so you sold the one took all the profit dumped into the next one. How did you find this seven point nine million million office deal?

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That one was actually listed, but we were able to negotiate that one down some as well. But yeah, it was actually the original office building at the Mayo Brothers. OK, crazy. All right, so does office worry you at all right now? That worries me a little bit, knowing that this whole COVA thing made a lot of people start working from home. Yeah.

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You know, I think that it depends on the location. It depends on the tenant, depends on what their rent is per square foot. It depends on the building. I do think there's some uncertainty in the market and it'll either be less there'll be less need for office space or more depending on how you repurpose the space. But obviously our leases are out several years and so it'll blow over. The election will blow over and then we'll see what it's going to be after that.

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Yeah, makes sense.

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Let me get some overall advice from you, Matt. What are some in the commercial space? What are some what's the word I'm maybe Neches that you're bullish on and what are some that you're thinking you should probably avoid buying someone with this form of a tenant base?

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Well, industrial is the number one class that I'm going after right now in Q4. We're working on a lot of industrial property and specifically what I target, it's five to 15 million dollar industrial property, eight plus percent cap rate with five or more years left on the lease. And I love national credit tenants that are publicly traded. So I think apartments are probably number one, recession resistant. But right after that, if you don't want to deal with the headache of it is industrial.

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I think that retail, it depends on the retail center and it depends on the tenant. I think that retail is bouncing back. I mean, obviously, when they were shut down and had to be shut down, I think that, you know, that was concerning. But and then office tenants, I think it depends on aren't they an essential business or not? You know, that's really the indicator. Yeah.

[00:26:28]

Yeah, that's really good. What are some examples of essential business that you'd say? I feel more comfortable here. And then if you can, can you share any business types that you'd be much more nervous or leery about getting into?

[00:26:39]

Yeah, well, I think the bars and restaurants are the worst right now. I mean, especially a sit down restaurant. Some counties, depending on where you are actually locked down or they can't even be open. So while maybe they got help with PPY loans or SBA loans, you know, for a period of time that's burned off by now and now they're hurting and they're going to potentially shut down. When you look at other times, like in my buildings, I have RSM McGladrey, which is an accounting firm.

[00:27:05]

They're going to keep running the IRS. In one of my buildings, I have Wells Fargo, Mayo Foundation. I've got a FedEx warehouse. You know, that's huge. And so they're doing better now. So I think it's just being able to adjust with the times.

[00:27:21]

So when you say industrials that we were talking about, it's things like a FedEx warehouse that that is right.

[00:27:26]

So industrial would be lower rents per square foot and would be a more warehouse type feel. OK, I'm also working on a flex property right now, which will be kind of have a little bit of office in the front and then industrial behind. I own like a carpet one warehouse which in the front yard come in and you can see the different. They'll sell you the carpet, but they're got the warehouse piece in the back. And what I love about that is the rent is low per square foot.

[00:27:49]

If you had to repurpose the building, more likely than not you could find a tenant for that during these times.

[00:27:54]

OK, so you're looking at when you're renting warehouse style space, you get less rent per square foot, but you get more safety and they're getting less amenities. You don't have to run nearly as much cubicles and carpet and cabling and all this stuff in there. And then office space, they're going to pay more. But that's because you had to spend more to to basically convert that property be more useful, right? Right, I'm an industrial maybe three to five bucks a foot in office, maybe 12 to 15.

[00:28:22]

I love your idea of combining it, though, especially if you find a company that needs each because nobody is going to like you can work from home. Sure. But you're not going to store huge rolls of carpet or granite slabs in your backyard. You have to have a space for that. And you're thinking this is something that can't be zoomed. Zoom meetings, taking this over and then combining the two together is really smart. I was thinking about something like the tile warehouses where you go there to pick out what you want for your construction project, but they still need like a showroom where there's there's more expensive office space where they're going to meet with the clients and then they store their stuff in the back.

[00:28:57]

So I think that's a brilliant idea. What is property management look like for these type of spaces of buildings that you own? Right. So these are all triple net leases and what a triple net lease for those who don't know what that is, that the taxes, insurance, property management, they're all paid by the tenant. And what I love about that is it's very easy to do the math because we're just running off a multiple of the net operating income or analy, and we use a cap rate to come up with value.

[00:29:23]

So it's easier to budget what your expenses are going to be, if that makes sense. All right.

[00:29:29]

Now, when you're doing a triple net lease, what are some things that that someone who's going to buy a building like this needs to be aware of that is in their benefit? And what are some of the downsides to doing it that way?

[00:29:41]

Well, triple net lease is almost always good. So I know like, say, if you're buying an apartment building, if you're going to pay a lot more for the building, the taxes are going to go up. You're going to eat that and you're in a line. Right. Whereas if I go and buy an industrial property for more, that's not going to affect me at all. I think the most important piece, rather than focusing on the building, is the underlying tenant and saying what is their solvency during covid?

[00:30:03]

What are the tenant financials? And so if you have a really strong tenant, you're not really worried if they have to pay a little bit more or whatever, but and just also understanding their history, how long they've been in the space going forward. But triple net leases are almost always good. And what I love about it is the property management that you'll get like two emails a month rolling a pencil, and that's really it. And they're going to deal with all the other calls.

[00:30:26]

So that's what it's so passive and it becomes scalable. And you can think about owning one hundred two hundred five hundred million dollars of real estate where it's very difficult to do that in homes.

[00:30:35]

You know, one thing I've noticed about single family investing is it tends to be a little more offensive minded. You are looking for ways to add value to that property through the rehab, through repurposing, buying an area where rents are going to go up, adding equity to your property, getting it at a better price when you buy it. And what I notice about commercial investing is it's a much more of a defensive perspective you're taking. Like you're mentioning, you're making sure that tenant can pay their rent.

[00:31:00]

You're not looking for how you're going to add value to the building per say, because over time that's just going to naturally happen. Is that something that you've noticed as well?

[00:31:07]

Well, yeah. I mean, I'd rather have FedEx pay my rent than a Section eight type or somebody who could potentially hurt my space. Know. And also, if I need to, the front needs to go up. It's a know. It's a different kind of conversation for sure. And the leases are a lot longer. So factoring in rent bumps isn't going to happen because they may be on a five, 10 year lease, which is why you have a triple net protection, basically because your taxes and your expenses can go up during the period of time where their lease is already set.

[00:31:36]

And if you have a 10 year lease with somebody but your taxes are going up significantly during that time or maintenance, then it can really hurt you. And they don't want to have to negotiate a lease based on what the expenses are going to be eight years from now. Nobody would want to do that. So I think that's why it's structured that way. One thing about your story I found fascinating was your ability to use real estate to earn income in a way that offset the taxes you're paying, not just for that real estate, but for other parts of your wealth building journey.

[00:32:03]

Can you explain a little bit about what you did to decrease the amount of taxes that you were paying so you could reinvest that money into more real estate? Right, right, it's classic rich, dead poor, dead right. It's like the two things are, you know, if you're doing real estate, you're paying taxes, you're probably doing something wrong. And then the second, you know, is just income producing debt. Right. I grew up kind of like no debt.

[00:32:25]

Dave Ramsey. And then now I'm tens of millions of dollars in debt. But it makes me money and it's really secure. So what I came across was real estate, professional status. And I think there's a lot a lot of people don't know about it. But if one of the spouses, let's say if a couple was married, if a wife doesn't work and she can get seven hundred and fifty hours of actively involved in real estate, they can file as a real estate professional and then you can take losses that are in your passive side and Knock-Out active income.

[00:32:54]

And that's where the magic happens and you can take your tax liability to zero. Now granted, this is a tax deferral where eventually you'll have to make up for that. But if there's a time value of money where you can become an especially if you're making six figures, you can become a millionaire quite quickly, just off of that invested well and kind of drop the mic a little.

[00:33:15]

So can we can we unpack that a little bit? Because this is such a valuable point. That is it's it's pretty high level, but it's one of those things that if you're listening to this right now and you're like, well, you know, that sounds kind of complicated. I don't really need to learn this right now. I'm going to go to the top and go play some. I don't I'll go watch Dancing with the Stars. Like, this is so important for us to understand whether you make twelve thousand a year or two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year, I think between or a million the year.

[00:33:38]

I want to unpack this idea of like how people save money by owning real estate because, know, you and I talked about earlier before we started recording this, about how there's some friends of ours that are in abundance that are buying these large properties and offsetting huge incomes. Now, I make I make a pretty darn good income from active stuff like book writing and other things like that. And so this is near and dear to my heart. But even if you're making an average salary, this might be important.

[00:34:05]

So can we can we can go through that again a little bit more like I don't say deeper, but maybe simpler so somebody can understand exactly what do we mean by this saving money, by owning real estate, how that work. Right.

[00:34:15]

So I think one of the key things to highlight is control. Right. The reason why I got into real estate was control. And so if you can control when you buy and sell a property, a lot of people that are high income professionals will invest in syndications and they don't really get to decide when they're going to buy or sell the property and how that affects them for that tax year. They're kind of a limited partner that's passive. And so what I encourage is, is how can they potentially buy a larger property where they can pull levers and it's in their best interest.

[00:34:44]

And that's where things really took off for me. But basically what you do is you buy a large property and then you do a cost segregation study with a structural engineer and of the building value, usually you can take 20 to 30 percent of the building value like mine cost segregation. Studies came in about twenty eight percent for last year. And so I think my adjusted gross income was like negative one point one million for last year while I made a lot of money.

[00:35:12]

And it's a loss that you take all in year one and it carries forward. So property, there's five and 15 year property. So if you buy a hotel, call it, the carpet's going to wear out before thirty nine years, you know, which is the straight line depreciation number. And so we just are accelerating all that and taking it in year one. And if Trump gets re-elected, that'll continue. And it's not the rules might change.

[00:35:37]

Yeah, they may change if this comes out after the elections. Now, people are smiling right now because they know what happened. We don't we don't know it happened yet. It happens tomorrow that we're recording this the day before Election Day. So we'll see. But, yeah, things change all the time. And that's why the important thing for real estate investors is to continually be monitoring what the government's doing, what the tax policies are. I mean, taxes are designed to encourage certain types of behavior.

[00:35:57]

So when we get into that type of behavior, I do certain things like do more rehabs. We can then offset more of the money. So to kind of like summarize. So if if you are a million dollar property, if you had a property where the building is worth a million bucks, you buy something worth a million dollars, the consecration study potentially can help you. In that case. Is it 20 to 30 percent? You said twenty eight percent.

[00:36:19]

So you may deduct two hundred and eighty thousand dollars in that first year just off buying that property. Even if you didn't spend any money, you could do with no money down deal. If you did it right, you could still take two hundred thousand dollars and in depreciation to offset the two hundred and eighty thousand dollars you made from your job. Is that how that essentially works?

[00:36:38]

Exactly. I would call it a deferral. And then at the end you have to decide, well, do I. Ten thirty one or do I just sell it, realized the gain and then do it again on the next building and then offset it that way. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's some proactive things. And I think that's the biggest thing is getting the accountant. I mean they're like specialists in medicine. Right. And so get an account.

[00:36:59]

If you're having a heart problem, get the get the cardiologist. And so my tax guy was an IRS auditor for seven years and he literally knows all the rules and he's like. If you don't take a home office exemption, because that's like raising your hand for an audit, because those are the projects we ran while we were at the IRS, and so we can help you step around that kind of stuff. So I would say just get the right team around you, like my attorney, my broker, my banker, they're all in their 70s and so combined experience, it allows me to go a lot further.

[00:37:28]

So you bring up a really good point here. One of the things that's that's maybe so frustrating about dealing with lawyers CPAs is it's very easy to tell, you know, don't do it. You can get in trouble. It's very hard to find the one that says yes and you have to do it like this. Do you have any advice or questions you can share with what you talk to someone when you're first meeting them to figure out if they're someone with the experience that can guide you how to reduce taxes versus just tell, you know, because that's always the safest answer?

[00:37:59]

Well, I think sharing what your vision is with them, if you have a vivid vision, say, hey, I'm trying to buy X amount of real estate and this is how I want to run things. And I'm wanting you to help me proactively plan this. I don't want you to just I don't want to give you my papers and you file them a tax time. I'm wanting you to help me think through how we go to this income or this bracket.

[00:38:21]

And I think when you help them believe in your vision, then you'll see if there's the right fit or not. I hope you're enjoying this episode of The Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. We'll be right back after this quick break. There's almost always a rise in break ins during the holidays, waitering in the new year, right? That's why I simply say of home security is having a huge holiday sale to help protect you from break ins. They're offering 40 percent off any simply safe system and a free security camera.

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Again, that's fundrise dotcom size, bigger pockets. You mentioned vision. Let's talk about that, because we kind of glossed over it earlier, you mentioned you found that book just like I did that book, The Vivid Vision or Vivid Vision by Cameron Harold. Right. I can see like what what was that like for you when you found that? And what is your vision look like? I need to read the whole thing. But like. Like what what did your vision say?

[00:41:00]

How has that been an impact on your business? Yeah.

[00:41:02]

So December twenty nineteen was when I wrote my vision and honestly, I didn't really even know what to write, so I kind of patterned mine after yours. I was like 50 million. That sounds like a good number. So I just wrote that down. I had some other goals, like I wanted to have a couple of hires, keep people that worked around me. I didn't want to be a super big team, but I wanted time, freedom.

[00:41:24]

There were some other elements like that. And yeah, it was December twenty nineteen. The goal is for December twenty twenty two and I have a chance to hit it here in one year, which is super exciting. And then obviously I got to reset those. But yeah, vision is everything and it's attracting and it's a frequency and it's an energy and I didn't believe in any of that stuff until I started coaching and being around people that are on that same frequency.

[00:41:51]

Yeah, it really is.

[00:41:52]

There's a thing about when you when you put out there and like, I'm not even trying to get, like, weird or spiritual anything when you but when you put that out there in the world and you write like this, you have a vision, you you project out from you.

[00:42:04]

Right. Like like the world is attracted to that thing, like that's what we call it, the vibration or that energy. Like they there's this thing people like, oh man, I feel that like I vibrate with that, like that's my thing. And then you attract other people around you, you're able to better get in flow. We're like, yeah, that's my thing.

[00:42:20]

Like this just feels right is that I mean, obviously vision is super important. But then another piece of your story is you do a lot of that one on one coaching like performance coaching. David Greene here, David does as well. I do performance coaching and a lot of the top, top people I'm like friends with, whether in anywhere real estate or otherwise, they rely on performance coaching. Again, this is different than the pay fifty thousand dollars to a guru to teach you how to invest in real estate.

[00:42:45]

That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about like somebody like, you know, well, what is it like what is what is performance coaching been for you? Like, how has that been helpful?

[00:42:53]

I think it's been a mirror more than anything. And him saying, what do you want? How are you going to get it? What's possible? It doesn't feel light or heavy. I'm more of an analytical person. And so I didn't really check in with my feelings. And I think that in other areas of life, that's really important, you know, not just in real estate, but to me what I'm doing feels super exciting. And I think I'm going to be successful at it just because to me it feels light to to go towards commercial property, whereas it would feel happy to go towards homes.

[00:43:23]

I would feel other things could feel happy to me. And so I think that it's simpler than you think it is, but it's also accountability. I think the accountability piece of him holding your feet to the fire is huge. And I think it's also just having to pay something for it is a good thing because it kind of is commitment and buy in like shoot. If I'm paying ten grand or whatever the number is like, I better show up and I better fill out the call form and I better be thinking about what my goals are.

[00:43:52]

Yeah.

[00:43:53]

Yeah. And that that price tag, I mean like, you know, you paying thousands of thousands of dollars a year potentially for coaching. But it's one of those things that I always ask people if you are meeting with somebody a couple of times a month, maybe two or three times a month, and they were holding you accountable to your goals. And you were you know, you were taking time to work on your life rather than in your life.

[00:44:13]

And you were focused and somebody was like, really like asking you those tough questions and helping you, like, steer. If if you had that, could you increase your income by ten percent, by five percent, by twenty percent. And I think the resounding answer everybody is is yeah, of course.

[00:44:31]

Like like who couldn't. And so when you think about it that way, you realize like and this is something. David, David, you had coaches long before I had ever hired a performance coach.

[00:44:40]

And I was I would look at the cost of having a performance coach rather than looking at as an investment that I would make significantly more if you found that in your life as well, Matt.

[00:44:50]

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that well, I hired Jason. And the funny thing is now my first employee came from his master mind when I joined Go Abundance and, you know, sold two to three buildings already through that group. And I'm improving their lives. Mindset improved. And there's a it's just a group of people you want to be around and you want to be like, so cool. Yeah, I got Brandon Antigo abundance. And really, that's when his career took off.

[00:45:16]

He wasn't doing so great. Right. I brought him in.

[00:45:18]

So you guys are all welcome that you get to enjoy Brandon's brilliance. I take full credit for that.

[00:45:23]

Well, if this goes deeper. Right. So David did bring me to go and saw a technically, Diego is the first one to ever mention it to me, but it was close you. Yeah, David, close me. And then I met Kevin Carroll through Goban. And so then Kevin introduced me to Jason Dreis my performance coach. Jason now is one that introduced me to you, Matt. Yes.

[00:45:42]

And all in other words. All of this is here because of David, this is all. Let me go even further.

[00:45:47]

This is out here because of abundance, because Howell, right, who I met through abundance, introduced me to Brandon through several circles within circles as to how I had him on our podcast. How do we get out on the podcast?

[00:45:59]

I don't remember now. I don't know if we can go that far back. But the point is, I want to give him the gun in really all of this because of how Elrod that's who we should get back on the show. You know, why are you even co-host David? We could forget how to be a co-host.

[00:46:12]

That's a great point. Let's not but if I if Hal stepped into the shoes that you guys would never hear me again. Let's hope that that doesn't ever happen. That'd be like we should bring him back, though, the first time that Aaron Rodgers stepped in for Brett Favre in there. Oh, yeah, we're never going back. But the point is, it's not cool. But it's it's a group of people that are committed to being excellent and that are sharing the journey together.

[00:46:33]

That just does wonders for your own success and the mindset you're in. And when you think about what it costs instead of what you get, it's so easy to not do it. But when I look at my business, it would have never scale to where I'm one of the top in the country without being surrounded by people in abundance that were at the top in the country. What they did and learning how they think and seeing how they do things and having them fix one small problem, that boom opens up all these doors.

[00:46:54]

Everybody here is going to say, I'm scared to do what Matt's doing. Of course they are. But Matt was surrounded by other people who were doing it and he was less scared and he had momentum that came from being good at one job that made this less scary. Matt, you took steps to avoid being scared. That made you way more successful. And that's really what we're trying to get in. That's where your foundation comes from. Just the knowledge itself isn't necessarily going to get you anywhere.

[00:47:17]

Man, this is good. This is a good topic. We got to move on, though, and get to our deal.

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All right, time for the deep dive. This is the part of the show where we dive deep into one deal you've recently done. So that's got a property in mind that we can dig into. Absolutely, one that I really like is a FedEx distribution facility that I bought you some creative finance on that and it's probably will be a long term buy and hold for me. All right, cool.

[00:48:57]

Well, let's go through. I got eight questions here total. We're going to alternate and throw them back. And the first one you just answered. So what kind of what now? You didn't really, though. We know it's a FedEx, but what kind of property is this? So be industrial property, it's a distribution facility, it touches the runway at the airport, it's where the FedEx planes come in and out of every unit of blood that comes in and out of the Mayo Clinic goes through my building.

[00:49:18]

Beautiful.

[00:49:19]

I love the analogies that you just used from your previous medical profession to describe this.

[00:49:24]

I don't think of the analogy that was real life, wasn't it?

[00:49:26]

Now, you said you did a bladder.

[00:49:28]

Yeah. Was that good? It's real bad in the building.

[00:49:31]

That's like, oh, I thought it was like an artery for FedEx that you were describing, so. Wow.

[00:49:36]

But you were drawn to something in the medical industry from your previous profession.

[00:49:41]

You know why I did it? Because he wasn't building a brand new bridge. He was borrowing materials from another bridge into into this new bridge. So that's great advice. Our other ideologies, if only we knew anybody who had come up with something that clever give credit to for that quote to tie it up.

[00:49:57]

So what is this, like a giant warehouse then?

[00:49:59]

And where is it located? It's in Minnesota, Rochester, Minnesota, and all right, the 52 trucks that go there. That's right. Fifty two trucks that go in and out of the building every day and the planes come in, unload everything, and then they distribute it. So it's a great turn on during covered with all the drop shipping and stuff that I love that you knew your numbers that well.

[00:50:23]

You are clearly the analytical person that you claim to work.

[00:50:27]

OK, how did you find this property? This one was held in a trust and the guy had died and so was actually through a banking relationship that I found it a relationship.

[00:50:39]

Tell us how you found that relationship that that was just through. I mean, I have several several banks that I have a good working relationship right now. And that's one of the things I would say is a lot of times it's not the deal or the money, but you have to find that lender that's willing to come along and be OK with some creativity and believes in you and maybe looks at you sometimes from global cash flow perspective and those kind of things.

[00:51:01]

And don't be afraid to tell those people that you're already doing business with what you are looking for. Like for me, if I'm looking for listings, I tell every single home inspector, every appraiser, everyone I know, hey, who's the agent that you refer people to? And this case, if you're an investor, hey, I'm looking for these kind of properties, keep me in mind, because that lender knows if he brings you the deal and you let him finance it, he just created his own income.

[00:51:24]

He's not dependent on you bringing something to him. So that was brilliant. All right, next question then, how much was the property, would you pay for it? Twelve point two, five million, twelve point two five. How did you negotiate that number? They wanted 14 and it's usually off of a cap rate perspective. So I ended up paying a six point four percent cap rate for it, but it had a large bump coming in four years, which will make it a seven cap.

[00:51:52]

And it was a there was a nine year lease. So I was comfortable with those kind of caps. And the funny thing is, after closing, I started looking at comps. These trade more than five to five and a half cap. So and for those who don't know, it's an inverse relationship. A lower tax rate is a higher price, meaning I bought the building a higher cap rate, which is good. Yes.

[00:52:12]

And I also want to highlight something you mentioned that's very smart. Don't look at year one numbers every single time you buy a property. You mentioned there's a rent bump coming in four years. I can't tell you how many times the best deals I bought were because over a five year, a 10 year period, they were the numbers were so much better than they were in year one. And sometimes when you just run that that one little spreadsheet or that one calculator and you see the year when ROIC is six percent or seven percent, you say I could do better, move on.

[00:52:42]

And so you go to a place where you get a 10 or 12 percent and the rents never go up for the next 30 years. It's really tough. That's the smart way to do it is to see, OK, I can buy it at this number, but in four years my ROIC is going to be here, my IRR is going to be here and make a decisions like that. So again, very, very wise. I think it's your turn.

[00:53:01]

Yeah. How do you fund it? So I put 10 percent down and then I got a 10 percent seller carry at four percent interest only and 80 percent from the bank.

[00:53:11]

Another creative financing, OK, yes. A buddy of mine are looking at the deal very similar to this. Can you mention what a seller Kerry is and then expand on how common that is in these type of deals? I think that it's more common when you have a pre-existing relationship with the people or, you know, you're you're trustworthy because a lot of times they're you're signing a personal guarantee. So they're looking at you that you're going to give your best and your three years of taxes and everything to the bank.

[00:53:36]

But you're also going to give them to the seller, which in this case was a three board members of a trust. And they look over and they say, well, do we think that Matt can pay us back? So seller Kerry means that it's a lot of people think of seller financing and that's contract for deed, usually where it's the whole purchase price or basically there's no bank involved. My preferred strategy is getting the bank involved or the seller gets the lion's share of their money.

[00:54:00]

The brokers can be paid out everything, but you're getting that extra, that extra boost. Also, bank money is usually cheaper and especially in this environment. So I love having the bank. I mean, I got a quote today from a bank at two point nine zero five four, and they were talking then, but maybe give me a 30 year amortization. And this is my first property. Wow. Yeah, it's crazy. Crazy.

[00:54:23]

So you're borrowing the lion's share of the money from a bank at a lower rate. The down payment, which was the person you have to come up with, you're taking a big chunk of that and having the seller basically loan you the money for your down payment and you are making a separate agreement with them to pay that money back. And that's what we call a seller carry that the interest rate is higher on that portion. But that's OK because you're borrowing less from them and it's less coming out of pocket for you.

[00:54:45]

So you have more in reserves, which I'm sure the bank isn't mad about and the seller is not mad about. And you're not mad about. Your partners aren't mad about as well as more money to potentially buy the next deal that sum it up.

[00:54:56]

Exactly. And it's subordinated debt to the bank. So just so you understand, sometimes you have a second mortgage on the property, so bank gets paid out first. If something happens, then the seller and then you're you're at the end. So we would say that the banks in the first position mean and the seller is now in a second position. And so in the case of a foreclosure, you would sell it, the bank would get their note paid out first.

[00:55:17]

Anything left would go towards paying back the seller. Which is why you're saying you want to have a good relationship with the person that you're buying the property from. So they feel comfortable that they're going to get paid back.

[00:55:26]

Exactly. Beautiful. OK, this sounds very smart with how you did this. Can you tell me what the outcome was?

[00:55:33]

Well, it's a buy and hold it. Cash flows one hundred and twenty seven thousand a year for me right now. So that's awesome. You're sitting on my bank loan, I think was nine point eight roughly. So I'm paying off a huge loan. I mean, I'm twenty nine. So at fifty nine that's paid off in your net worth. I mean the, the rents keep going up because of you know, you get the loan pay down, you get the cash flow, you have the appreciation.

[00:55:58]

Oh by the way, I probably won't pay taxes for years just because I took a bunch of bonus and accelerated depreciation against the building. And if the tenant ever leaves, Amazon's probably going to take over and then you sell it at a five cap or something. And so the funny thing is we were walking into clothes and the guy leans over to me and he says, I just want to make sure you don't want to sell this for fifteen million.

[00:56:18]

Right. Because we had an offer before closing. So these properties are highly desirable. I opted to wait. If I ever want to sell it, I'd do a reverse ten thirty one rather than having a gun to my head, having all this money sitting where, you know, I got to decide what to do with it. But right now it's just you want some anchors do your portfolio that'll hold you through. Can you spell out what a reverse ten thirty one is.

[00:56:43]

Right. So a reverse ten thirty one means identify the property I'm going to buy before I sell nine and therefore I'm probably going to make a better decision and it'll be better than selling it then. I'm forty five days to identify and potentially making a bad decision.

[00:56:58]

So the upside to a reverse ten thirty one is that you're not under the gun on the timeline once you sell. The downside is you don't have the money coming from the purchase of the first when you have to have the capital from somewhere else. Is that fair?

[00:57:10]

No, it would come from the purchase, the first one. So you'd have contracts, you'd have a contract to sell your property. But in there there's a contingency saying, you know, I have three to six months or whatever amount of time to find the other property. So you just wait and the guy has to wait to buy it until you find the property that you want to buy and therefore you're in control of the process rather than having it be where they control it.

[00:57:31]

And all your money is sitting at the losses and you have to buy something. So the downside would be finding the seller who's willing to go through that process because it's worse for them. Because it's better for you.

[00:57:41]

Right. Finding the I mean, if I own the building and be finding a buyer that would be willing to sit and wait for me to sell the property. But it's actually pretty it's actually pretty common in larger deals like this when you're working with trusts or you're working with a lot of deals, once you get in figure deals, usually working with siblings who own a property or multiple partners or trusts, and it can be commercial property, slower for sure than, yes, residential.

[00:58:07]

And that's what I wanted to highlight, is for people who are listening, that are used to going up against seven other offers on this property, that strategy does not work well. The seller of that property is going to say no, those six other people aren't going to make me do that. But in this space, because there's less people that are. And the process takes so much longer. You do have more flexibility with how you structure that deal to make sense for yourself.

[00:58:27]

Awesome. OK. Have we asked what the outcome was? Yeah, that was kind of OK. I'm right. You're going to hold it long term.

[00:58:33]

So I think we're on a five year hold. If you looked at selling after five years, it would be about one hundred percent IRR per year for half of the money that was put in. So, I mean, that's if you usually are commercial loans are set up on balloons or five year balloons. And so I like to run every deal at five years and then back into that. OK, what's my cash on cash going to be? What's my IRR, those components.

[00:58:56]

But likely this will be a long term never sell kind of a situation, but you always want to run those numbers and know what your returns are going to be. That's awesome, man.

[00:59:06]

What lessons did you learn from this deal? What can you share that maybe you came up that either illustrates a good lesson or that you learned specifically in this deal?

[00:59:14]

Yeah, I think it's got to remember, it's a relationship business. That's how I found the deal. It's how I financed it. That's everything is relationships. I think the other thing is patience to like I think being patient and finding the right deal, but also just not being willing. The thought of going in 15 months and buying a deal that's 12 million. And now I'm probably going to close on a 16 by the end of the year. Now I'm looking at a property that I submitted, a 30 million dollar line last week.

[00:59:44]

So I think not being scared of it, I think that you can live in fear and abundance and that's your choice. And I want to live in a world that's abundant and I want to give back to people. I want to come on, I guess like this. I want to come on things and be able to share with other people how to become free. That's so cool, man, man, I want to end it there, but I do have one more question for you before we get to the famous for where you headed in the future and a two part question, where you headed and how can our audience assist you in that?

[01:00:11]

What are you looking for? What do you need? What would help you?

[01:00:14]

Yeah, I think that there's personal goals of wanting to start a family, wanting to travel more, wanting to give back those kind of things. But, you know, I'm going to reset that vivid vision and probably be doing a minimum of a hundred million next year. I can help people get into properties that maybe they couldn't have gotten into otherwise. I can pay people a referral fee if they want to bring me deals. And I'm also looking at setting up a fund to go out and buy more property and help people make smart investments so they can go to my website and get connected and we'll figure out how to plug them in.

[01:00:47]

Very cool. It's awesome.

[01:00:49]

I would say that getting joined up with Matt here would be a very smart decision for anybody who's trying to get started. This is really, really good work that you're doing from what we're hearing. And you have a very what I would say is a crystal clear idea of where you want to go, which is very valuable if you want to be successful in this business.

[01:01:05]

Yeah, budget. All right, dude, this is amazing. But now we've got to get down to the end of our show.

[01:01:10]

It's time for our famous for. All right.

[01:01:14]

Time for the famous for. This is the part of the show where we ask the same for questions every week to every guest. And now we're going to throw you through what you got to say.

[01:01:23]

Matt, what is your current favorite real estate related book?

[01:01:28]

You know, I don't know that's directly related to real estate, but I would say everybody should should read vivid vision. I think that it's huge and it'll change or change your life. And I think that mindset is so much more important than strategy. So I think getting in the right mindset will just lead you to the right strategies, the right people around you. So, yeah, that book is very impactful for you, isn't it, Brandon? It was, yeah, it was huge.

[01:01:50]

It kind of led me to the 50 million dollar surfers, you know, vivid vision that's hanging on my wall right now.

[01:01:56]

We've talked and I feel like that is what led to open door capital and how rapidly you've scaled that to a successful company that people like me can invest in to get a return on our money without having to work. So I'm never going to be mad about that.

[01:02:09]

But we don't a division.

[01:02:10]

We do get Cameron here on Cameron Hill was the author of that we've been talking to about get on the show. He wants to go on it so we can get from there to we just haven't coordinated schedules.

[01:02:18]

But we will get him on this show and we will talk about vivid vision to everybody here in the next few months. That is my that is my commitment to you all. All right, yeah, yeah, next question, you kind of already fired off a business book, but do you have another business book that you want to recommend?

[01:02:32]

I really like cash flow. Quadron you know, I think I use that analogy all the time when I'm talking to physicians. I just had a radiologist that bought a one hundred twelve thousand square foot warehouse from me and he's working on moving from that. We all started that E quadrant. He's in that squadron being a small business owner and makes six hundred thousand a year or whatever, but he's paying a third of that in taxes. And so you move over to the quadrant, you can pay zero taxes.

[01:02:59]

And so I think that the clarity of how cash flow works as well always stick with me from that book I make beautiful. OK, what about some of your hobbies? I like to bike. I play guitar with family and friends church. So just realizing that this is about giving us the life not I don't want it to become my life, you know. So yeah, I have decided to start a family as well someday. So then last question for me.

[01:03:31]

What do you think sets apart successful real estate investors from those who give up? They fail or they never get started?

[01:03:37]

I think persistence, but also not having the right people around you. It's hard to fail if you have a good mentor, you have a good coach and you and you have the right drive.

[01:03:48]

So good. So get really good. All right.

[01:03:51]

That for people who want to learn a little bit more about you, maybe follow your journey. What is the best way for them to do so?

[01:03:57]

My website is Wild Moose Ventures, dot com, my spirit animals and most. So that's where that came from. But yeah, while most ventures dot com, you can send me a note there and we'll follow up with you and we'd love to love to connect and help you along your real estate journey and see how we could work together. Yes, Brendan, what's your spirit animal? Super chicken. Oh, that's really good. I bet you're going to maybe say an ant from Lord of the Rings with that down to the spirit animal, perhaps a huge tree.

[01:04:31]

No, there's a there's a TED talk about this is the back story of this real quick. There's a TED talk about there's chickens and a company, everyone's a chicken. And then there are the super chickens, which are people who do really good. And the TED talk is a very negative about super chickens. It's like you shouldn't have people that stand out. You should have everybody the same. So everyone feels taken care of and loved and cherished and connected with.

[01:04:56]

And I was like, well, this is the worst duck ever. And a former H.R. manager years ago of mine called me a super chicken in a negative way. She said, you're a super chicken and it makes other people in the organization feel bad. And so now I identify as a super chicken.

[01:05:12]

So I would rather have a company full of super chickens rather than normal chickens. And I know David Greene, you are a super chicken. And Matt, you are also a super chicken. What's your spirit animal, though, David?

[01:05:22]

That's the nicest thing you've ever said to me, Matt. You need to cherish that compliment. That means a lot coming from this guy. I don't know. I would need someone else to tell me what my spirit animal is. I have no idea where I could see you being a bear. This is that I mean, I look like a bear.

[01:05:39]

What does it mean to have me strong or something? I don't know. I'm like a bull. Strongbow, come here. Know David. Does it make a good big spoon? He's he's a good shooter.

[01:05:51]

No, David, I would give David the bull because David, you I'm more than anyone else I've ever known. Even though it's a myth, bulls don't actually go after red. They're colorblind. But like you are, more than anyone I've ever known is when you get something on your agenda where you're like, I'm going to do that, you go after it like a bull gorging a matador or something like you just go after. So I'm going to give you a bull for your spirit animal.

[01:06:14]

It's really cool. Thank you. I also think I do have a bull in a china shop mentality, too. Yes, I can ruffle feathers totally without meaning to just the way that I act. So there might be something to that. That's the spirit. I know. That's what I'll be for Halloween next year.

[01:06:29]

All right. Well, thank you, guys.

[01:06:31]

Matt, you have an amazing story. Thank you very much for sharing it here. I'm sure we could have done this for hours. And you have more to share. Very smart guy. I wish you the best. Continue to be successful. I can't wait to have you back on and hear about how much progress you've made. This is David Green for Brandon, my favorite super chicken Turner signing off.

[01:06:51]

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