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This is a bigger pockets podcast show for forty four, I think if you really want to be in real estate and make it work and you're showing up every single day talking about persistent, consistent action, it is something is going to happen. So I think the main thing that separates people, there's mindsets behind that. There's tangible things you can do. But if you're in the game long enough, whether you're an agent or you're trying to flip or do development or you don't buying stuff, something is going to happen.

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You're listening to bigger pockets radio simplifying real estate for investors, large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from bigger pockets. Dotcom, your home for real estate, investing online.

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What's going on? I want to bring in Turner hosted the Bigger Pockets podcast here in the C shed, not Shihad. Somebody else in their day. Why did you call it? She said it's a C shed with my buddy, Mr. David Greene. David Greene. I thought, man, what's going on?

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We got some magic today coming out of said shed. We do have the magic out of said shed today. That is show is phenomenal. We interview a guest named Cole Rudd. Rude.

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Let me say that again, dude. I messed it up. No, leave it like that. I don't make that they make more sense.

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It will make the outro make more sense. All right. Well, Cole RWD is our guest today here in this T-shirt. And he is a good friend of mine, a phenomenal real estate investor.

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And twenty twenty two. Twenty three. Twenty five. Twenty seven. Twenty two. The kids like twenty two. He is killing it in his real estate business, though. You guys are gonna love that. You're gonna learn about all the mindset stuff and how he does it, but equally importantly, the tactical like how he does it. What are the things he's doing? What does he say on the phone? How do they talk to Steller's? What works, what doesn't work, where he gets his list from?

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All that stuff unpacks all that today. So it's pretty awesome. But before we get to that, let's get to today's quick tip.

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Here is my quick tip for everyone today.

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Sometimes on these shows, we talk about terms that you might not know. For example, today's show, we talk a lot about wholesaling. You might be like, what's a hold? And I know what it is. And then, like, just not look it up. So here's a very simple quick tip. If you go to bigger pockets, there's a little magnifying glass at the top. You go up there and you click on it and then you type in any real estate turn whatsoever.

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And then it hit enter and you will get like it's search results categorized by like forum, blog, podcast, webinar, blah, blah, blah, blah, people, companies. And so you can really dig in on any topic. So don't let like I don't know what that is, stop you. And by the way, wholesaling is basically where you find good deals. And then you instead of doing the work yourself, you find somebody else who wants that good deal and you make kind of a fee for kind of being the middleman.

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That's kind of probably not a great explanation. But that give you the idea as you're basically making money without actually having to do the flip. You're finding the deal. You're getting paid to find deals. And there are ways to do that. That work in every state is where that don't work in every state. There's legal way, ways. Always make sure you're going to do a whole thing, do your homework. But the quick tip is, is to use bigger pockets to learn stuff.

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It's really good. Yeah. Twenty two going on, fifty two. So in today's show, we cover how to start a business, how to get out of working in the business, to working on your business, basically converting everything into different steps that you can manage people. We talk about adding different streams of income to something that you're already doing well and probably most importantly, the mindset behind how successful people operate, which as today's guest shows, they work even at a young age.

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Yeah, it's such a good show, so you're got to love it.

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Before we talk, though, let's get to today's show sponsors. All right, everybody. So we recently did a whole show about this, the big three roadblocks for new investors. What are they. That's right.

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And you can find that number and more information about renter retirement on the show.

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That's a bigger pocket's dotcom SASHO for 12. Today's podcast is brought to you by one of my favorite stores, the Home Depot and Home Depot pro. For more than 60 years, they've helped pros do more by providing professional grade products and innovative business solutions that address the challenges you face every day, making it easier to manage your business, find efficiencies and improve your bottom line. With more than twenty one hundred stores in the U.S., Canada and Mexico, you can access more than a million products and dedicated services for today's busy pro there your single source supply house for the products and services you use every day.

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I think it's time to start an interview that we just did here live in Maui in the shed with coal. So without further ado, let's bring him in. Carl, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast, man, good to have you in the shed. Thanks for having me on, man. It's good to be in person. How to Marry. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about how you got into the wide world of real estate investing.

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Actually, before you do that, how old are you? I'm twenty two and three quarters of twenty three.

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OK, so that's that's a very young age. And give us a quick before you got how how you got into real estate. Give us a quick understanding. What do you do. Like what's your thing like. Like, like I guess I want to set the table of people, you know, like, like what you have right now and what your business looks like. And then we'll go into how you got into that. So how in depth you go.

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Just give us a broad overview of your current business.

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So broad overview right now. We have an off market director up company and Renton, Washington. So we have an office, two thousand square feet, sales managers, guys, a whole team. And right now we're doing 90 percent wholesale. So try to sell or sell those deals. Other investors and 10 percent flips. We have three flips going on right now. So transitioning into that slowly but still primarily wholesale.

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OK, and then tell us approximately like how much volume in a year do you do?

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Like in the last year, like what have you what have you done? Like what kind of like you saw in the past year? We do about six to eight transactions a month in the Seattle area. So before that we were in like four different states. That number was higher. But right now we're back down to six to eight and just coffee and a the three main counties around Seattle. Yeah. So whatever that comes out to like 70, 80 deals here.

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Wow. OK, so that's that's crazy. I did like I think three hotels once in a in a five year period and that was I was impressed with myself. So let's go into how you got started. How'd you get into real I mean, you're a young guy with a business that most people would be jealous, jealous of in mine. I had to go. Yeah. So growing up, I grew up in a real estate family. So my my great grandma started a brokerage called Brud Realty, which is one of the first brokerage route.

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All of Seattle like Arcudi or U.D..

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OK, OK. That's how it's pronounced. Yeah. OK. Are you d I thought was roud.

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No I didn't trust your name wrong. Feel like we've hung out a number of times. We play poker together. Yeah. Yeah. And I am on that. Yeah exactly. And I called you roud.

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Well the Times just let it slide even be mine. I tell people the next time it's back to rudzki pronounces a lot of words wrong.

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Don't feel bad.

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Rough instead of Rouf magazine and so pronounced anything wrong.

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And now we said that. Right. So she was kind of the she got my, my whole family into real estate. So then my grandparents, they did a lot of commercial stuff in Seattle. They owned a bunch of buildings. She was an agent and my mom got in the business, she became an agent and my brother followed her. So growing up, any time I wanted to make money or be involved at all, I was, you know, going with her to open houses, putting signs out for the houses.

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I was a staging she had a staging company on the side, so I was moving furniture around. So I was always, always around the business in some way. So transitioning to when I actually wanted to make make money, naturally I got my real estate license at at eighteen nineteen when I left school after a semester and I absolutely hated, hated, hated being a residential real estate agent. Switch just three times because of course there was the brokerage.

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That was a problem always. It was not.

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I showed up to every sales meeting that was everyone else's fault know it was not my fault. So every salesman I saw on Facebook a couple hours a day scrolled through a few posts out there called My Fear, which is eighteen or nineteen. They tell you to keep your spirits up.

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So you graduate in high school soon. How's that? Like you want to buy a house? Yeah. So it was brutal.

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I mean, it was a I was making like a couple hundred bucks a month just doing like showings for other agents. And then the third brokerage I moved to was an aftermarket company where they were doing every Tuesday night. They'd bring a bunch of investors in and they would they would show them what was going to be coming to auction that week. They had pretty much done it. Go to the auction. That's what they're running their company. So I learned that side of the business and how they were creating their own inventory.

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And I'm like, that seems like something I can get behind because people don't care what my age is. Then 18, 19, 20, rather than Seattle selling the million our house, they're like, yeah, something's going on here. So that's where I learned it. And then a couple of nights later, I was like, when I learned about wholesale, I mean, a buddy Applebee's, it's my origin story, kind of half price appetizers.

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We we shared half so good, just wings. It was tough to survive college. That was right there.

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And we were on Instagram and these other two young guys in the area had posted this like forty thousand dollar check on their Instagram. And so I was like, what are these guys doing? If they can do it, we can do it kind of thing to the next little. The next day he came to my house, my parents house, because I was living our parents at the time and up and they're pretty much their attic. We started cold calling and then for the next three months before we got a deal, we were just sitting up in that room cold calling every single day.

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That's that's cool. Why did I guess why cold calling?

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Why that most people don't jump to cold calling is the first thing is they're like, well, I'm going to go in five or ten. Yeah. So we did that. So we actually drove around like the most expensive neighborhoods of Bellevue in Seattle, like three to six miles to our homes, like we're driving four dollars. And because I don't know, I always want to feel like I'm doing something, yeah, so I had no idea what I was doing, but I just I could put one foot in front the other.

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So we were at the same time driving for dollars, going to all the meet ups. You know, I was Facebook messaging, you know, all the guys in the area. What you do is to ask them to go to coffee or normal process and then later on cold calling because I don't know, I just felt we were getting the most traction on that out of anything. Yeah, that's cool. Let's pull a couple of things out of your story here that we could highlight for listeners and then we'll move on to the next piece.

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First thing very impressive. You realize early on this is not what I want. This does not match up with where my passion is or what my identity is. You didn't force that square peg through the round hole like we were talking about that Rosie was doing the other day. You had adapted. OK, I don't like how this feels. This is not my identity. I'm moving on. Which pushed you into cold calling. And I'm going to assume that was because your age group was not in a point that could help you get to the goals you wanted to get to.

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So calling 18, 19 year olds in your sphere looking for people to buy or sell a house was an uphill battle, but cold calling. You're calling the people that can do what you want to do. And I just want to highlight this story you're about to tell us, which is incredible started because instead of saying, I guess I can't sell houses, I'm only 19 years old, what am I going to do? You said, well, what can I do?

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Which led to this awesome story that everybody else can follow in that same path if they take that same approach.

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Yeah, backtracking a little bit on that point. I think that came from I grew up a basketball player, so I remember I was in seventh grade. I came home one day. I love it, man.

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I come on, I come home and I just got the feel. I came home one day from seventh grade from middle school. And I was like, I want to be the best basketball player. I want to play college basketball. And my parents didn't give me one of the like, oh, you'll be fine. You're really good at what happened.

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It was like, OK, we'll have a trainer show up here tomorrow to pick you up. And they did in the next five, six years, every single day it was working out and I got a chance to play in college, didn't actually play in college one chance.

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So that was so ingrained in me to as long as I show up and put one foot in front the other and do something every single day, something's going to come out.

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So even though the residential stuff was working for me, I knew it was just so ingrained in me at that point that if I show up the next day, try something else. Eventually something is going to shake. I'm going to meet a person. I'm going to go to the right event. I'm going to there's going to be one so that wants to help me out. And it happened. So, yeah, I think the cold calling was just a piece there, but it was really the mindset behind that that I think it was the biggest key to not just, OK, real estate's not for me moving on.

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Yeah, I tell I have a very similar story where basketball literally created the foundation of I can I didn't grow up believing that I could do anything. Basketball was the first thing in my life that I worked at and got better. And I saw the relationship between action and working and the result that I wanted. And just like you, I got super close. I actually didn't play in college. I broke my ankle and I was getting ready to go play there.

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I actually am glad that happened because I think that created a fuel that I used to do all the other stuff that I did. But I wish everyone else could have an experience like that where you just see trying to take it all out. And one shot is why people get discouraged. But just this understanding that if I just keep moving that ball forward, if I keep putting myself in the right situation, that turnover is coming my way. I'm going to be the one leading the fast break.

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I'm going to get better. So at twenty two years old, the fact that you figure that out young, I mean credit to your parents and credit to you for and the funny part is like I wasn't that good for most of the time.

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Like my freshman year of high school, I was like on the C team wasn't that great. But I still got every day I was working out every single day crazy three, four or five hours a day. It wasn't going to dance like I wasn't doing anything besides playing basketball. Sophomore year wasn't that great. Junior year was on varsity. Finally wasn't that great. And senior year MVP and everything all clicked one year. So I knew that's kind of how my real estate journey been to kind of all.

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I had a few years of struggle and it kind of all came together. Well, what you what you did is you went like you went all in on something right.

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Versus like you went on in basketball and you went on real estate. And it just shows what happens when somebody focused isn't like that.

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And like we kind of laughed out earlier, you're driving for dollars and like these multimillion dollar neighborhoods, you're probably not going to buy anything like it.

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It doesn't matter. You were you were doing something. Then you try something else and you were doing so and trying to you know, like we talk a lot about focus here on the podcast. You know, David and I will talk a ton about, like, how you need to, like, pick your bridge. But in the beginning, like, you probably don't know what your bridge is like. A lot people have no idea what bridge is going to get them to Success Island.

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So by just like trying this and trying this and you're like, oh, I didn't like the Asian things. I would try this thing and I didn't like to be working or cool Collins working it. That's when you lean in and you go to that bridge so hard, just like I tried basketball. Then I leaned into it. I just I kept going. That's awesome. Yeah. And like what you were saying, I think with that developed in me is like, I don't really care about the how stuff like basketball.

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I don't know how I was going to score in a game I was all going to shake out. It's the same thing in real estate, whether it's cold calling or whatever is working. It's not working with the how. It's just picking a direction to go in and showing up every single day and how you like. I look back in my life the past three years. Sitting here right now how does not make sense. Does not make sense so well.

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You also are hitting on a point Brandt and I have been talking about a lot, which is the pivot. OK, you did everything you had. You threw it in the basketball, you had a goal. You wanted to play in college. It didn't happen, but you just shifted all that momentum into real estate, which is why now you're crushing it. Yeah. Twenty two years old. This is incredibly impressive what you put together. That was largely because this momentum you built your work ethic, your belief system, the habits you.

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Were formed from basketball, they translated pretty well in a business where it doesn't matter if you're not tall enough or fast enough or strong enough, I always tell people in business your athleticism is your mind, your talent is your is your mind. And all of us have complete control over how that works out. Like we just talked with Jim quick yesterday explaining, like, how to program your mind, like your body. So as people are listening, I just want them to hear that's the key.

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You start you build momentum. And if it doesn't go the way you want it, you shift that momentum into something else. But you don't completely you don't wait until you know exactly what you want to do before you ever start moving. So thanks for that little Segway in background that's kind of get into where you took it after you cold call. Yeah. The cold calling business. Yeah. So like, we were cold calling every single day for three months.

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And finally, our first didn't even come from that though. So an agent brought us this opportunity because that we were you know, it's like people know what I was doing and it was just I've never done a deal like this is in Seattle and Sunset Hill Ballard area, which is you don't do a ton of wholesale deals there. And the deal was brought to us like eight hundred thousand purchase price. And the one buyer we had actually met that we knew was buying that we had a good relationship with.

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We sold them on this like, hey, man, if you build up two stories and you build a bridge over to an 80 on top of the garage, that might be something here. And he bought it from us. And that first check was one hundred five grand. Norway first quarter was a hundred and five.

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Thursday, we had we had to pay a few people out, but we took home a good chunk of that. And it was like a listed like MLS. No, no, no. What was off. OK, so the agent found it off market, brought it to you.

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Wow. Yeah. And so how my mind works is I kind of my mind immediately went to I don't know why I went to crap. Yeah, I have the check but what if I don't do another deal right away.

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I was like, how can I turn this thing into a repeatable model where we can keep doing deals?

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So in other words, how do you how do you make a business out of this versus like I got to check exactly what I don't know why the fundamental change, though. My mind went right to their thoughts. And so we didn't spend any of that money like none of it. I didn't get car. The time closed. Nothing stayed in my parent's house. And we next day we're cold calling in. And then it was actually another three months until we got the next year from school, calling it our first call coming to you.

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So six months of cold calling for we get actual cold call deal.

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And then from there we hired another guy, another person cold calling in the person of cold call when I was 19, after we were three deals in that we signed a three year personal guarantee lease on an office and then rent and just went all in and all. And then we had to figure it out at that point because we had some overhead. So we started filling that office with just buddies that wanted to try out real estate and do sales. And we had like seven or eight guys and eventually we were doing random markets.

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We're doing deals in Spokane, St. Louis, Fresno, California, Sacramento, California, all over Washington. Weren't making a ton of money at the time because we were tracking anything.

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It was it was five thousand our hotel fees. Every other day we get, you know, most of our twenty twenty five we'd get to sixty here. And there was eight people in office. It was just it was chaos. I learned so much that this first year after that, but it was absolute chaos.

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You mind if I jump in and take it a different direction normally? Do we always cover the big picture stuff like how you did it, which we want to keep doing? I want to dive in for a second and have you talk a little bit about how you developed your coldcocked skills. I'm sure it's not just a matter of I make one hundred phone calls, I'm going to get X amount. Right. It averages into that. But it's just like if I shoot one hundred shots, if you suck at shooting, you're not making as many.

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Right. Like part of success is getting better at shooting because you shoot so much. So for people that want to cold call, what advice can you give that you learn about how to do it better, how to build rapport, how to recognize motivation, that type of stuff? Yeah, I think the tactical stuff with rapport and motivation is huge. But I think the before you get into that, it's sticking with it for a long enough time for it to pan out, to get good at it, no matter how good you get good at poor, no matter if you're the best grip best or poor, best everything.

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If you only do it for two months and you're like, oh, I'm going to go to the next shiny, cool marketing thing that I heard on a podcast. Yeah, it's not going to work of first and foremost. Stick with it. But then, yeah, I mean, for us it's really just having quality conversations.

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So many, like we train our callers when they get on the phone to someone when I was going to really do the best they can to adapt to that culture and find out what the real reason those people are selling is, because a lot of cold call centers and people are going to start they don't care about the other person other than the phone is just that's a check. It's a dollar sign, not a person. So they skip over a lot of deals that are there.

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Most people are going to come out and say, hey, you know, my dad passed away. I just inherited the house or whatever situation may be. So really not being in a rush to just get a quick number and move on. We really take the time to get to know. We try to get to know every single person. It's harder at scale, but especially starting out. We really wanted to get to know every single person we were talking to without, you know, spending thirty minutes and wasting all of our time.

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Yeah.

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So what have you found has worked? I want to I want to dive into cold calling a little bit. Yeah. What what works. What doesn't work. Like how has it changed over the last couple years or has it. Because yeah. Like David said, it's not just a numbers game. You make one phone call, you're going to get it. There's things that you're. Doing right now, that is the first one we start with. Who are you calling?

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Let's start there. Yeah. So right now I kind of put down two answers versus where we are now versus. Yeah, yeah.

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So right now we call pretty much everyone and I'll pick up the phone book and just start dialing Fresno pretty pretty much for everybody, the whole county, OK.

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And we, we call pretty much everyone and you look for people like Equity Bilis like Equity or do you right now for how many leads we need right now.

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OK, you just call. Yeah, we just call when we're getting started. Absolutely. We got we down into absentee U.S. equity and higher equity, longer ownership, all that kind of stuff. But I think the biggest thing was cold calling is it's a separate business than a real estate business. Yeah. Like, whether you're doing yourself or you having someone do it for you, it's a whole nother business. We have to track KPIs in that business.

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You have to look under the hood all the time making sure people are performing, that they're being managed. Otherwise, you can be throwing money in a garbage can. Yeah. So people look at it as just, oh, no, that's just my marketing. But no, it's really it's a marketing business, especially if you're selling or flipping on direct to seller. You're marketing side of your business is a business and then your acquisitions, dispositions, your acquisitions, just a business.

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The sales team and your dispositions is a business in itself with networking and building a business. So, you know, that's such a good point to highlight.

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When Brandon and I give webinars for bigger pockets, we have to talk about the Lapps funnel, which is just four steps to getting something in contract. You've got leads, then you analyze them, then you pursue them, then you find success. Those first three steps the other day in the P actually involved completely different skill sets, completely different resources. You should look at each of those like they're a different business. How do I generate leads? Who analyzes them and how do they do it?

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And then what's our position when we're pursuing it? When someone looks at this like it's a job and they treat everything the same, they typically aren't going to be nearly as successful. I really like that. You're highlighting you really want to take this whole process, pick out the parts, either that you're the best at that you want to learn or that you're the worst at that. You want to leverage off, find other people that are better at doing those things and view it from that perspective.

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Is that similar to what you found as you're running your company? Absolutely, yeah. The biggest growth for us came in. We when we really sectioned off every piece of our company and put a really good leader in charge of every single thing. And it was hard to let go of that because I, I feel like I can do everything better than everyone else. So it was up to me. I'd still be cold calling and selling stuff and selling it to our buyers.

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And so putting like we have we have a manager of our cool colors who's really like we give them we trust the guy, we love him. That's his section of the company. And we have from a bird's eye view, I'm always looking at numbers on that section. But besides that, I don't get involved too much as long as we're meeting our numbers. Sales team, we have a sales manager is my partner in the business, Mike, and that's his thing.

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It's like his baby, that section of the company. And then I'm on the the dispositions system side. Not when when we got we were scrambled and everyone is now doing everything.

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It was it was chaos. We're making money. But when I stepped outside, OK, how can I make everything kind of just funnel up to me at a bird's eye overview. But we have someone who cares about the business in charge of every little piece. That's what we really took off. And I'm curious, did you have a similar experience with open door capital splitting things up like that? Yeah, I mean, exactly. I feel like that's everything that you just explained in the last five minutes.

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I want people to rewind this because that like that last five minutes might be the most important five minutes of any podcast we've ever done. And what I mean by that is like for people who want to scale like that, that is the key to scaling is like you run your business like a business, you have your KPIs, you know what each person's doing. And even if it's at the beginning, it could be all you to think like this is an acquisitions person.

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Now, mind, just like think of this and then you can put people in there as you need to. And the great thing about real estate, especially things like wholesaling and flipping, is that you make money back pretty quickly so that you can afford to hire people to do this because like the business generates the money for these people. So in other words, you became a a leader, like a word that I use a lot.

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And we talk about this with my coach, Jason Jewry's, when he was on the podcast back a few months ago. It's like ideas were general in my head, like I'm a general in a in a war. I'm not a cadet anymore. I'm not a lieutenant. I'm not down on the battlefield most times unless, like, they overrun the gates. They're now in my compound. Fine. I'm going to grab a gun. I'm going to shoot just like you.

[00:25:20]

You look at the numbers at a high level. And if there was a problem with your calls coming in, I guarantee you jump in there and start figuring it out. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:26]

And it's a hard it's a hard balance to know when to jump in and when not. Because when I see I see stuff every day it happens. And like I want to I can I can fix that right now. Yes. When when we interviewed JoCo on the podcast and in his book, Extreme Ownership, he talked about this lesson. He learned where he was on a team of operators that were they were infiltrating like a boat or something. And they were all looking down the scope of their guns, looking for threats, which is what every one of us does.

[00:25:50]

When we're scared. We focus on what can hurt us. It makes sense. It's a survival situation. Yes. One hundred percent. So they all get off the boat. They're all looking down their scopes. They're looking for the enemy. It was a training exercise. And he realized that no one knew how to direct any of the people where to go, because when you're just looking for a threat, you don't understand the big picture or how to maneuver yourself to be in a better position to even address that threat.

[00:26:13]

And he took his eyes off of the scope. He took a couple of. Steps backwards. So now he can see all the troops that are on the field, they're looking for the threats, he's trusting them and he recognizes, oh, we're going the wrong way. We need to you to go this way. And he makes the call. Everyone moves into it. And it was a turning point in his life where he understood when you are doing the job, you can't do what he recognized, which was lead the people.

[00:26:35]

And what you're describing is every leader's problem is that they see someone. He missed a shot and they go, oh, I better be the one to get in there and get behind the guy. We can't have those misses. And then you lose having an entire platoon of people that you're moving into another position.

[00:26:49]

So I think you're right. There's that art of can the business survive if we're fumbling the ball? This often is people are learning to I have to get in there and do it. But the ultimate goal is to get yourself in the position of general, just like Brandon said, because you see how all the pieces fit. You recognize the resources. Maybe I got to take this person out of dispositions and put them in acquisitions because he'll be better there.

[00:27:11]

And for everyone who's going through that same struggle, it's normal. You're not bipolar. This is what all of us have to go through. It's really hard. But the longer you do it and the more steps of faith you take, it does get easier.

[00:27:24]

Yeah, I think good. Another way to summarize it is I heard it one time. It's as easy as you get spread more and more thin. Would you rather have you at 40, 50, 60, 70 percent doing a task or because you're so spread then versus someone to 80 percent, you might be able to do it as good as you?

[00:27:38]

That's the only thing you're doing, but they're going to do it. I think I actually heard that at the last minute. Oh, really? Someone said that finally because I was not doing any of the stuff then I was like doing everything. That's the first time I clicked. And the television, the kind of song. This was the first time. And then it rolls into a whole nother like that journey to be able to actually do that as a whole.

[00:27:57]

Another another piece.

[00:27:58]

That's cool. Yeah. What we're talking about here is we did a mastermind thing. We called it the mastermind Tal. And I let it out a year and a half ago now.

[00:28:07]

And like everybody, that group is still like close with each other and friends. It was it was a great, great you could have done a deal with or done a business transaction with like 80 percent from.

[00:28:18]

That's crazy. Yeah, it's a good indication. I don't want to dive into that too deep here. But just like if you're not getting together, people are not getting together with people in their in their world, you know, like in the real estate world. And you're whether it's in your area or whether you go to go somewhere, go to a conference. And I know this has been difficult for the last year here, but just as you know, we get back in the world again, just remember, there's so much value in that networking and connecting deeply with people.

[00:28:39]

Um, it was phenomenal. So anyway, I thought go back to call it a little bit more here and.

[00:28:45]

Let's talk when you're calling somebody, what do you say? Like, what's what's the you got the list of things you're going to call. Let's say they're just starting out, right? Yeah. Let's go. Let's go there. Somebody listen. This party right now, they've never done podcast. They've never done cold calling.

[00:28:58]

What should they what list did they target and what would recommend their first steps for cold calling. Yeah. So if I was just today. Yeah. If I was right now starting in real estate and I was going to of to deal in the next couple months we got going, I would buy and hire a higher equity absentee list for an area. Explain that is so interesting to you. Like most companies you go online to list source or atom data.

[00:29:18]

Most companies online, they'll give you an absentee filter, which is someone that they're mailing address is different than the property address.

[00:29:23]

It's fairly simple. And then you want to they all have criteria. So you want to, you know, stack equity on top of that. So you don't want to be marking people with 10, 20, 30 percent equity.

[00:29:34]

You might really get a seller financing and stuff, but just starting out, I wouldn't recommend it. So get a 40 to plus equity and you get a skip tracing your phone numbers back and then you want to keep it simple at first, especially as you're learning the business, you don't want to have too high level of conversations the first couple of calls because they're going to come out after that. You don't know a ton of stuff. So keep it as simple as you can and leverage other people and real estate agents have questions come up through the process with the first call should pretty much be, hey, Mr.

[00:30:00]

Sellers, this call I always tell people if they just sort of themselves reference another say, hey, I work for a local company so you don't come off of a hey, I'm a CEO of a company.

[00:30:11]

So this is cool. I work for a local real estate investment company. You know, we just sold because we buy sell properties in this area all the time. We have some money set aside for another one this month. Are you open to talking more about your script? So in the property of blah, blah, blah, that is two things, that it's a soft opening and it confirms the information that they are John Smith and they do own one, two, three, Main Street and Maui.

[00:30:33]

Yeah, it's really like I think people probably overcomplicate this a lot. Yeah. There's thinking like, oh I don't know my exact script. I to know exactly what words to say in the right order. And like, yes, you should, you should have a list of things you're trying to get across. Right.

[00:30:47]

But how important do you think like I mean, like it be genuine? I think it's such an important thing because I've been cold called many times before and it's like I can tell them, like right now a script or you just completely impersonal and like people are just like, hey, you know, like I got one the other day from a KW like Carl Williams agency.

[00:31:04]

They want to be like, Hey, is this Brandon? I'm like, yeah, it is. I'm like, hey, this is, you know, whatever. I work with Carl Williams down here in Kihei. We just sold the house like two blocks from yours. Got a really good price for it. Just Curis if you want to sell it. I've had an interest.

[00:31:17]

And I was like, oh, no, I really like my house right now, but thanks for the call. I was like I was like this was such a nice, genuine person. And they had a script of some kind, but like she was a normal person, a normal conversation. Yeah. I think so much of it is how you position yourself in reference to the seller. So if you come in as super like, oh, I've got to make ten more cocozza because I heard on the podcast I'll make one hundred this week, I might get a lead to my turn and do a deal versus sitting down and wanting to have conversations with people and like what we're talking about making it complicated.

[00:31:44]

I think it's it's hard not to do that when you get started because part of your brain does not want to call. You're getting started out. So you find ways to oh, I got to follow the script. It's so hard to follow or they're going to say no or every no one's answering. So it's the little things I think are huge to really sit down and take the time care about who you're talking to and to use a script like the kind of what I just went through you, something like that.

[00:32:05]

But you don't have to go one hundred percent off at every time the conversations are going to go where they go.

[00:32:09]

Yeah, I didn't do a ton of cold calling because I'm not a big fan of the phone, but I would like I would send a direct mail and I take the phone calls. Right. And when I did I had a I had a list, I got a piece of paper I kept with me everywhere I went when I was doing this more heavily. Everyone got to have this piece of paper, a bunch of them in a stack. And it was just like all the questions I need to make sure I got.

[00:32:26]

But it wasn't like a script like, hello, thank you so much for calling me today. It was just like like how long have you on the property line? And I would just like pull out this piece of paper and I would just like, oh, the next one. I got to make sure I get that question. What did you buy this property? And then I just find a way to make it natural in that conversation.

[00:32:43]

So I had a script, but it wasn't a script. Like I had a list, but it wasn't a script that worked with him to work for me. Yeah, that's that's exactly what I would recommend. I wouldn't call a script a guideline.

[00:32:53]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A framework framework of how to guide a conversation is what you're looking for. You're not looking for, you know, word for word, otherwise it is robotic.

[00:33:02]

And would you agree if somebody new and they're just nervous as heck, then actually having words they can read is a good way to break into it and take a lot more comfortable? Yeah, absolutely.

[00:33:12]

That and understanding that it's not going it's going to suck the first few times you do it.

[00:33:16]

Oh, yeah.

[00:33:17]

I think so many people are like the the thing that was not what I thought it was, but like with anything like the first time I surfed, the last time I was in Maui was like, that's what I tell people. And you look around people, everyone's laughing at me. I suck. I'm on the big surfer because I'm not good enough. A little surfboard and like everyone goes through the same thing.

[00:33:37]

The first time I cold called, I can speak English like the same thing, the same same thing. First time I spoke like on a podcasters. You I. So it's the same thing, it's gradually improving and giving yourself the freedom to say that's I think what the secret is. If you walk in with low expectations, like I use a snowboarding analogy, I don't know a human being that ever snowboard and crushed it the minute they got on the board, it doesn't happen.

[00:34:01]

They don't want to go back the next time after the first time. Yeah, that was me.

[00:34:04]

It was miserable. But what the reason I eventually learned how to do it so so was because I didn't want to waste that first experience of misery and say I got nothing out of it. It was so bad I was going to make sure I learned. But if you go in thinking I'm supposed to be good at it, and then when you're not, you'll think this isn't for me as opposed to, well, everyone sucks in this. It's impossible to be good at doing this without some some practice.

[00:34:26]

You have to get that feedback. Oh, that works. That didn't work. When I changed my tone, I got more engagement. But do you mind if I read your quote that you have behind you? I think this is so good. If I could pull it back here. Yes. For those that are that struggle with that feeling of like I don't want to be laughed at because I was on the big surfboard. When you compare yourself to the surfers, it is embarrassing that you're on the big surfboard.

[00:34:47]

What about when you compare yourself to the ninety nine percent of people that are on the beach watching? They're never even got in the ocean. Right. So this quote was a Teddy Roosevelt. Yeah, I believe the credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who at best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither knew victory or defeat.

[00:35:16]

It's such a beautiful quote. I love that you put it up here. I love thinking that all the time because it highlights the big losses that you never tried. It wasn't that you tried and fell off the surfboard or that you didn't get on the good surfboard. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think people getting started in real estate or other forms of entrepreneurship, they thought there's no margin for error. I think the reason that I've scaled and accelerated so quickly because I realized there's infinite margin of error, like I can make as many mistakes as I want and what's the consequences?

[00:35:45]

I going to try. There's no one really keeping score. What's the what's the other word? It's a it's like a spotlight effect.

[00:35:51]

You think everyone's thinking about you all the time, but everyone's thinking to themselves, oh, one hundred percent is like no one cares. Acknowledging human narcissism is the best thing you can ever do for your business because they all care about themselves so much more than you.

[00:36:04]

So I was the biggest thing for me as a real and sportstalk without realizing that there is infinite upside. It doesn't matter how long it takes me to get there, I can fall and stumble all I want.

[00:36:13]

OK, hey, let's take a quick break from this episode. We'll continue in just a moment. But first, let's hear a word from our sponsors.

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[00:38:21]

So this is awesome. So now you've got this company where you've got phone calls and then acquisitions and then dispositions. Let's let's hear a little about how you scale that to what it is now. Yeah, so it was really I had a lot of advice from people who had been in the business a long time, I didn't listen to any of it. They were all like that. You know, more checks is not always better. You know, slow down a little bit.

[00:38:43]

I was like, no, I'm going to keep hiring. We're going go to every market in the world. We're going to wholesale from Washington to Australia. And we had 10, 12 guys in the office and crazy overhead. We were spending 40 to 60 grand a month in marketing at one point across Kilcoyne mail and everything. And we got to the point where I had a bad burn out a year and a half ago because I was like, I realized I should just go.

[00:39:07]

If I'm going to do all this work to bring I want to bring in how am I supposed to go get a job? And I at that point I clicked. I'm like, this is what everyone's been telling me. And I just went to a mastermind and I was told this stuff and it's happening. And so from there I'm like, OK, we're going to redo this or we're going to keep our fundamentals and our foundation but build it up the right way.

[00:39:24]

So I always like the quote. I forget who it was. Talk about you can't build anything good on unstable foundations of our foundation. We had to go back down to the ground patch holes pretty much before I built back up, and that looked like pretty much clearing house. So we got all the way down to me and my new business partner because me and my other business partner separated. So we got back down to two people and we were still doing deals and making it happen.

[00:39:46]

And then the right way, putting CPI's in place, making sure that we were actually getting home money through the month and someone enjoying what we were doing, we started putting the pieces back together really, really slowly and carefully so that now with our operation looks like now is we have a sales manager, we have a marketing management team, we have me I still run dispositions. I love doing it. And I like having a challenge I to wake up and do and then I transaction's manager.

[00:40:09]

So it's really simplified like I was talking about before. We have everything segmented. Yeah. You got your lieutenants in place. Yes. This before it was twelve guys in an office running was like a frat house. Real estate frat house is what it was we really had. It didn't call the wine Wednesday where people would bring bottles of wine to them on Wednesday mornings.

[00:40:26]

Yeah. Yeah. And it was a it was a it was a mess. But through that I learned in my my life is like it's like I'm glad I went through that because I know, like, I'm never going that direction.

[00:40:37]

Yeah. But that's the pivot, right. You you would never would have got to the point where you recognize I need to rebuild if you wouldn't have started building. And it's very similar for me. Twenty, twenty was that year for me where I had to go back and I had to say, OK, the way I'm doing this is not going to get me where I want. It will get me forward, but not at the pace or the life that I want to have.

[00:40:55]

Can you share a little bit about what that experience was like? Because it takes some faith when you step away from knowing I can take the shot, too. I got to trust other people, too. You're probably making less money when you stop pushing forward and go back to rebuild it so that you can make more money later.

[00:41:10]

And that's always scary because, you know, if it's going to work, I think what did it for me, as I was seeing so many, like my personal problems, become business problems, like the stuff that's happening in my business was when I sat back and reflected the same problems I was having. And my personal life was, you know, not trusting people, not I didn't want to let go of anything or have hard conversations. So I realized I can fix this both places at the same time.

[00:41:32]

So it really came with just. Absolute trust and willing to accept the consequences of that and learn from it. So before my previous partnership, we'd be micromanaging each other like you left the office at 350. Today I was here till five thirty. All that kind of stuff versus now it's you. His response where he was wrong. Before we talk and we check in with each other, but it's the absolutely almost not blind trust because we have to keep you as we look at stuff.

[00:41:56]

But trust enough where I think you're my best interest of your best interest and then learning from mistakes through that that process, that's the biggest thing. Do you have a system in place for having those difficult conversations? So we talk once a week that we have a scheduled time for an hour. We sit down. We just everything that's on her mind, because I think the biggest thing that's hurt me in the past is that business partnerships as letting stuff brew underneath the surface for weeks and months were like little things.

[00:42:20]

And I was doing the same thing in my personal life with family and friends. And so instead of that putting in guidelines in place to hide when something comes up, let's talk about it on Monday morning, whatever it is, so that it doesn't brew. And I found that when I'm getting all my stuff out, I'm so much more productive, too. Can I can I actually ask David a question here? Like David, you do something because I on that point, it's so good.

[00:42:42]

Like not letting stuff brew and doing it. Now, David, you do something. I've never known anybody else do it. You have a performance coach every single week. Meet with your real estate team. Can you just like. That's right. Right. Like, yeah. And that's what's so interesting about the fact you figure this out at twenty two. I'm a little jealous because at twenty two I was nowhere close to being able to do any of this.

[00:43:01]

But what we realized is those difficult conversations have to happen. Otherwise resentment forms. And we were basically like being poisoned by different people on the team, having resentment for different reasons. Not only do they have to happen, you have to have like a GPS check in, like you could be going the wrong way. And if you don't meet with everybody, that's when you get signal again in your GPS. That's how you missed that turn. You got to go back around.

[00:43:24]

You can go six months the wrong direction if you don't ever have these check in. So we sort of combine it all together where once a week my real estate team, my mortgage team and my operations team, I do three of these meetings all get on a Zoome call with our performance coach, who's basically there. He's a psychologist to mediate that so that it doesn't get out of hand. People don't take I don't get nasty. They can't take it personal.

[00:43:46]

It's kind of like a relationship counselor for the business. Like if you and Heather go to a relationship counselor to discuss your marriage, you're not screaming at each other and bringing up hurtful things when there's a third party right there that's going to call you out on it. And that has been tremendous. It is expensive. That's what everyone says is how could you possibly pay that much money? It's another one of those steps of faith. I know if we meet weekly, we discuss what's causing the resentment.

[00:44:09]

We bring it to the surface. So it's not me versus them. It's really everybody on the team is all in agreement. We're committing to this is what we're going to do. Then it will turn into more revenue later. And I think that's part of why we've had so much growth. It's I would never, ever, ever try to run a business without that method. So it's sort of like you mentioned, your business problems and your personal problems were similar.

[00:44:31]

That's what I was about to ask you. Do you have a coach? Because they're so good with this. And I have a lot of that's that's another thing that I was I wanted to talk about is how many people I surround myself with that I would call mentors and coaches. And somewhere that's been the biggest reason that I am where I am like and a lot of the hardest thing about that, I didn't hire a coach at first. Like when I got into real estate and have a performance coach, I didn't have a business coach, but I did have people in real estate that I've been around for a while that I had to add enough value to where it developed into a friendship and a mentorship where I could pretty much take any situation and call them any time of day.

[00:45:03]

I say, here's what's going on. And it's success accelerated me night and day. Now, where am right now? I do have a business coach and a personal coach. I like three or four coaches that I purge because I found every time I do that and I commit more money to myself and I grow, I never regret it. And it's yeah. And that's that's where I actually learned about that whole meet once we get everything from your coach.

[00:45:24]

Yeah. It wasn't it wasn't like a randomly one night I was like, oh I think weekly meeting.

[00:45:30]

I can't take credit for that. But another thing it's done is we also have amazing ideas that come out of those sessions that we wouldn't have had, because when we're laying all of our issues on the table at the same time. Yeah. And seeing all that and we put our brains together, we can plug holes faster.

[00:45:44]

And it's a pretty cool thing to see. That's cool.

[00:45:47]

So how many how many hours a week you work right now and you say, oh man, this week in Maui, that example, probably ten to twenty active, like focused hours on the computer. I mean, the rest is phone calls and emails and where I'm needed. But like I switched to more. I read the book Deep Work. Yeah. And I kind of switch that model where I sit down in the morning and I give myself three or five big things, two to three hours.

[00:46:10]

I log in to try to get my phone away, sit there, knock everything out. And then I was bad when I first got started working just because I felt good to work and I felt like I was in motion. But unlearning that and really sitting down and getting my work done and then having been trying to enjoy my life and that's another big thing, is what do I feel my free time with has been a challenge too. But yeah, so about I said twenty to thirty hours a week of.

[00:46:33]

That's cool, and you and you moved right to. Yeah, so September, we kind of need covid everything. I was I was drained and so yeah I moved to San Diego a couple of days. Yeah, that's cool. But you're still doing all the work up in Seattle. Yes, they're still the office. I'm still up there.

[00:46:49]

I try to be probably a week or two a month and make sure we're rolling. But it's been awesome. I've learned so much to be away from the business and seeing that's the ultimate letting go design as best. And I know, David, you're doing the same thing right now where he, like you, came to Hawaii for like extended period of time. Yeah. Like you're forcing yourself to figure out how do I make this business a business and not just dependent upon myself.

[00:47:11]

Like, what have you learned about that so far? Well, what I learned is that my goal is to stay away until something breaks and then look and see why did that lorenc not to the point that the whole thing could collapse, but that's kind of how you figure out where you've been cheating, where you're supposed to be the general, but you're actually in the field a little bit too much when you take yourself out of it. And like, let's say that you've been putting Morehouse's under contract, then you probably should be your your acquisition manager should have stronger skills when it comes to closing.

[00:47:40]

But you step in and you just do what thing seems to you like the last one little percent, a couple of phone calls and then you stop having them and you guys go for like 30 percent of what you were doing and you think, holy cow, how are we missing this much? You now immediately know my acquisition manager needs either more training or more accountability or more oversight or more skill, something so that they can get up there a lot of the time.

[00:48:01]

What I found was that when my presence was there, I have somewhat of a strong presence.

[00:48:05]

The agents on my team thought, oh, David will handle it, he'll take the shot, he'll he'll do it. When I walked away, they didn't have the confidence to actually go in there and get it done. They knew what to do. They knew how to do it, but they didn't have the confidence. And I had to step away for them to face that fear. OK, I got to be the man or the woman. I got to get in here and do this.

[00:48:22]

So like Brandon, what you mentioned was really smart. When you're in a business and you want to see what needs to be improved, step away, see where the water starts coming in.

[00:48:31]

That's where your leakage. Yeah, couldn't really describe what I've been doing, but describe what I've been doing and the kind of an unconscious way of just. Yeah. What's been breaking. I fly back up there, I try to put it back, plug the leak, put it back together better or try to and then fly back to San Diego. It happens again. Yeah. That's a that's a great way to put it.

[00:48:50]

I can't believe you're doing this to twenty two years old. I mean, have you been thinking that too is we're listening to this guy's story a little bit like.

[00:48:58]

Yeah, but it comes with like the mentors and coaches. This is just a I love action that coming from sports. I just love to be in ocean action. I love to have something to do. Every day was like I'm moving forward. I just think I always feel like I have to earn my free time and stuff. So I just love pushing the ball forward in some way or what. What it just shows to me is like it shows us if if you want to be successful, you anybody wants to be successful in any way, like there are a series of things that they can do that are very tangible.

[00:49:26]

And you can find out by talking like you talk to these people. If you talk to Tal Yarber, you talk to Elliott Smith, you're like, what are you guys doing? Like you learn from these guys, ten mastermind meet ups. You like, you learn and you're like, OK, I want to put that into practice. And then it works on the show a lot like you should work. So that success is not a surprise. Right.

[00:49:42]

Like nobody with a six pack ever woke up and goes, well, I got a six pack. And like, nobody does that, right. Like like I just ran a triathlon. I do like like like, you know, I did The Iron Man of the Half.

[00:49:55]

I remember like last year, like I like I was not surprised that I finished and I didn't do well. I wasn't surprised. I didn't do well. I mean, I didn't do bad like I did exactly how I thought I would do because I did the level of work that would get me to exactly the level of support that I got. And so, like, it's not a surprise that you are where you are today at all because you like you you did exactly what a person should do to be able to get in that spot.

[00:50:17]

And so people are listening to this. It's really a fairly simple thing. Go find people who are already doing what you're doing or what you like, what you want to do, and the people who are already doing what you want to do, ask them like, what do you do every day? Like what? What's the key there? And then do it. And the great thing is you don't to ask them. You can listen to podcasts like this, like everybody listening right now.

[00:50:34]

A couple hundred thousand people can literally go do exactly what you did because you just heard everything that you did to get there. And I'm sure there's more than that. And they can get deeper and get to know you.

[00:50:42]

But like, success is not super complicated. And the more question I have kind of before we start moving towards the famous for and I know, David, you had one more you wanted to ask two in there. But I'm curious, like I know you added flipping to your business, you start with wholesaling. I'm wondering, like, why did you do that and how has that been? Like, where do you see yourself headed with that? Yeah.

[00:51:02]

So we we started flipping a couple of months ago, mainly because we kind of felt like we hit a plateau and want to challenge ourselves again. We thought that would help not only create more revenue with flipping, but also help our main business because we service investors who are flipping. So get to know that we're a little better. We feel like we could package of deals, whether on the front end. And then a lot of it was just the challenge of learning something new, build new relationships in that field and having a whole nother mean we want to grow.

[00:51:29]

So that felt like a natural thing to grow into. And a lot of people do it in reverse to go. Living off, living so hard, it sucks, it's also but for us, we feel like we're connected enough, we have good enough relationships with people where we can make it happen and do it the right way. I'm so big here. That was just one of the challenge. That's cool.

[00:51:45]

I love that you said like you're looking for a little bit more of a challenge there. I feel like that's such a sign of a of a strong team as well. Like and not that you get like bored necessarily of what the business is because, like, business is getting really good at something. But you added another basically lane to your bridge like you built a bridge. It was working. You have people now working the bridge for you so you can relax a little bit more.

[00:52:05]

You're like, how do we make this bridge stronger? How do we make this better? How do we get more cars across this bridge? You add in a lane, you didn't go and start a, you know, like wooden sunglasses business. But but you didn't think they open your capital were this year where we've been having a lot of investors ask us this question about why aren't we getting into apartments? And we've been to ask ourselves, should we add those on?

[00:52:23]

So this year we're actually going to add on apartments I under the bridge because not that we're bored of mobile home parks. I love mobile home parks and we're going to still do them. But I'm like, I want to add another lane to that to be stronger so we can do more deals, get more investors and start a bigger fund. So like for the exact same reason, it's like I love it and I love the challenge of going them a little bit new.

[00:52:41]

So you and I are in the and we only do it once we had our foundation really set.

[00:52:45]

Yeah, exactly. That's the key. That's the key is not building the bridge before you have the foundations that huge.

[00:52:50]

Yeah. So it's just been a now that we have something that pays the bills and keeps a successful business, now we can kind of veer off a little bit. But I'm glad we waited as long as we did for that. That's cool. So what kind of where you where you flip in it? Mainly just King County and Seattle. Pierce County a little bit too, which is a little more south. But we're trying to stay local just because that's where our relationships are.

[00:53:11]

I lean a lot on people like James Dainard, who's been on his podcast also, who helps us a lot. And it just makes it I don't want to veer out too much when we're doing stuff that's we're pulling permeates everything we do, like carpet paint, appliances, put on the market in and out kind of stuff.

[00:53:26]

And you get all that stuff off market in the market. I've never done a deal off in last night.

[00:53:31]

Really. Well, I want out of the almost two hundred transaction I've been a part of. Now, one of those BMW do well.

[00:53:38]

It's cool because you got really, really good at doing aftermarket and there's better deals off market if you're willing to put in the work to get there.

[00:53:44]

Yeah, you can pretty much write yourself a check because whatever you can negotiate and put together is paying yourself. And that's awesome, man. David and you got a question. Yeah. Before we do, I want to highlight your bridge analogy just for the people that are hearing this, that are trying to figure out what we're mean, because I don't know if there's a better way of understanding what we're talking about when we're describing building a funnel or a business to run leads through.

[00:54:05]

You have to look at every deal you close and sell like a car or a truck that was carrying goods that got from one location to another. And the more trucks you can get from one place to the other, the more money you can make. When we first start off, we're putting them on this bumpy dirt road, we've never done this before, we suck at it, we're getting halfway there and then we get a flat tire. The shocks break.

[00:54:27]

You didn't put enough gas in. Every mistake you can imagine stops these and you barely get anything across just to be somewhat profitable.

[00:54:34]

And then the more times you do it, the better you get at maybe driving.

[00:54:38]

You're anticipating what route to take them on. At a certain point, you pave that road and cars, big deals can flow very much with more simply what Brendan is describing. What you're talking about is once you've got that bridge built that the cars and trucks and travel on, you start adding extra lanes, which are extra components that business, the wholesale component, the flipping component, the retail sale component, maybe selling some of the services you put together to other people, a property management component.

[00:55:06]

That's what it feels like when you're building a business, as you are trying to create an infrastructure that you can move deals up and down at a certain point when they can go sixty five miles an hour and just shoot right through. You've got this passive business that then you can stop or you can take your bridge building abilities that you learn and go build another bridge somewhere and do another thing, which is that most entrepreneurs do. So thank you for highlighting that.

[00:55:28]

That's the same thing that you're doing. Again, 22 years old.

[00:55:33]

Yeah, yeah.

[00:55:34]

All my spin off businesses have come from not on purpose just yet. We have this thing we're using. There's other things to help that. Other people need that too.

[00:55:42]

That's exactly right. So you have a cold, cold calling thing, right?

[00:55:45]

Yes. That's not going to happen. I, I started that internally because we need a great sales guys. We need a lot of leads. So then Buddy was like, hey, can I use that then it just kind of it was a natural thing of this works for us. Other people do the same thing where you go. But it wasn't a purpose for me to go out and start this really cool golf course. Yeah, you built it out of need.

[00:56:04]

Are you like. Yeah, like I'm going to now. Other people can use it great.

[00:56:07]

Like you lean into it. It's very lean startup way to the other. But those are the best kind. Yeah, that's exactly right.

[00:56:12]

Same thing I'm trying to do. You just got like a sixteen year head start on me. Do. It's very impressive. All right.

[00:56:18]

So, so my life is longer than me though so I don't know if I said that.

[00:56:23]

I think I damaged my body quite a bit trying to figure out how to do all this stuff that you learned it, you know, going to mastermind masterminded twenty one years old. My last question for you is there's clearly something special about you that's different than other people where you discussed it. It's a smile. It's really nice.

[00:56:39]

Yeah, I would agree with that. And your eyes are very hypnotic. I find myself staring you forgetting what I was trying to say. You make it sound so simple to do what we're doing. In fact, you show maybe I should say that you reveal how simple it is when you get out of the obstacles that talk yourself out of it to close. Can you share a little bit about how you develop this mindset, what you do differently than other people so that others that want to follow this path can have an easier journey?

[00:57:03]

Yeah, I think the biggest thing is most people operate like out of a model. It's ninety nine percent information, one percent action. So they're gathering information all the time, but barely taking action on any information. So they're not I don't feel like you accelerate is quick that way for me. I'm always learning, I'd say more like 70, 30, 70 percent action, 30 percent information. So I'm always learning new things, but I'm taking really precise, deep action on everything I learn.

[00:57:26]

So like an example of that, or was it cool when I first started the whole concept of my business, all I did was called call. I learned about Kocon, implemented what I knew about that, stuck with that for a long time, took extreme action on that instead of learning six different marketing channels and doing ten percent on each one. So I think I've taken that replicated across everything I've done. I think that's what's allowed me combined with the not really caring.

[00:57:49]

If I feel I don't know, I haven't been in a war that's come from to be honest with you, I think of eSports helped a lot with that, but I don't know exactly where that never thinking about failing came from. Like just not being a thing to me a lot was probably how I was raised. And it was never like, you got to meet this great. You got to do this. I could have graduated high school and been like, oh, I'm going to I'm going to Africa to be a safari guide for the next ten years or awesome.

[00:58:13]

So I think a lot of it came from that, but I haven't nailed that down.

[00:58:16]

But that combined with just going deep and showing up every single day with persistent and consistent action and the pursuit of my potential is like what it comes down to that I want to find out what I can do with that Baras.

[00:58:28]

That's cool, man. I love I love to hear that. I think that it's I think, again, if you can if you can get the mindset of somebody successful and then just do what they're doing, like it's it's almost impossible not to achieve that level of success.

[00:58:40]

I was actually given over the long the long haul. Yeah. You might encounter a I go to the market crashed or whatever. There's always a reason maybe somebody hold back temporarily, but long term, like five, ten, fifteen years from now. Like I don't understand how anybody listening to the podcast is not going to be a multimillionaire in the next five or ten years like everybody. If they just put into action the stuff, the mindset and the tactics.

[00:59:00]

Like it's it's there for the taking the emotion. Yeah. It's so fun about real estate and entrepreneurship and all this is like it's just it's just there like like the it's it's not just what you were given.

[00:59:11]

It's like we can take whatever we want, you can have whatever you want, the kind of life that you want to live, if you just are willing to put in the work needed to do it and. Like the stuff that we've done for me today, because it doesn't mean it's like one hundred hours of work, you know, maybe there's times in your life we have to really power through it.

[00:59:24]

But you, like you put people in charge of different things. You scale up and you you bring people in, you become a good manager and you get the higher dollar power skills and do that.

[00:59:33]

I think one of the biggest lies that stops a lot of people that in our culture is the work 100 hour weeks. I don't think you don't have to do that to be successful. There's ways to to put stuff together with other people that it doesn't have to work like that. So, yeah, and that's why I think, like things like performance coaching come in so handy where, you know, like Dan Sullivan, you know, like a coach that we had on, like with his dad, his like company like sloganeer mission.

[00:59:56]

The goal is like that you I think it was double triple your revenue with it and then half the amount of time you work or something like that, like their goal for everybody they bring in the company is like, we're going to make you work half as much and you're going to make two or three times more money like minimum. That's like their baseline. They just worked again. And it might sound crazy people listening, but like I would almost say, that's like way undershooting.

[01:00:16]

Like, I feel like I had a performance coaching, but nothing like our goals. Have you worked four hours a week? Like we believe everybody can work four to ten hours if they if you want to know, you're not showing us what we do with our time. So we all work more than four hours. But like, I want every person to be like to get to that level where they can take a week off, take a month of go travel to Hawaii for three months because they want to go hang out, go go to Europe without a cell phone for a month.

[01:00:36]

You know, I want people to get to that level. So when they come back or spend time with their kids, it has to be travel could be spend time again. When they come back, they can do what they love to do and invest in and be wholly in it. So I do. I do this. It's been amazing. We got to wrap this up in a few.

[01:00:49]

But first, let's get today's famous for. All right.

[01:00:54]

Let's get to the famous for question number one. These are the same four questions we ask every guest every week. I'm sure you know it's coming, but no one. Favorite or I like to say favorite, I need like rephrase this question, but basically favorite real estate investing book or book that's made the biggest impact on your real estate.

[01:01:09]

For me, it's the book called Slip By Nicolai's. So he's a fixer, some guy out of Wisconsin. And that was the book I read when I was getting into wholesaling. It's a really basic level bird's eye view into real estate, but it makes it made it click in my head like what I was doing, my path where I work, take it. So for me, that was business wise. That's been my I still reread that book, so it's tough to call the biggest impact on me.

[01:01:33]

All right. OK, favorite business related book has to be traction. I was given I was given that book. I was going to ask what you use for your operating system. Yeah, I was given that book. I have not been that good about selling all that stuff. But I was given that book about two years ago and I'm decent at following a lot of it. Like a lot of the the meeting stuff, the level 10 stuff.

[01:01:54]

We do a lot of that.

[01:01:54]

But I mean, I would I would highly recommend because we just did it open our capital, bring in a consultant like it's not super cheap, like it's thousands of dollars to have.

[01:02:02]

But it's so like because I feel like we were operating at like eighty five percent traction a fashionable like we were doing like eighty five percent of the workday and it was fine, like we were good. But that, that now we're at like ninety eight percent. I feel like we're like and it's that little bit Dayal like I probably cut five hours a week, 10 hours a week out of my own like, like work just by bringing that consultant, because all of a sudden like it just like fine tuning.

[01:02:27]

All these little things when you're operating in a business has a pretty high level. It's it's so good. I mean, I highly recommend that. Bring in some consultant. I want you to take it up a notch with 50 percent or not be honest with you, which is better than I mean, than 99 percent of businesses out there don't know how to run it.

[01:02:42]

It's still open my eyes to that direction. You. Oh, man. All right. All right. When you're not questioning that business, what are some of your hobbies? Uh, well, I'm not in the business. I'm skiing or playing basketball or I'm working out. I'm on the beach. I love to travel, so I'm all over the place of that. But during the winter, you can find me on a mountain. Absolutely. I'm skiing somewhere.

[01:03:03]

I'm on a boat or I'm on a boat.

[01:03:09]

I want to know this is the four and a three and a half question. If you and David Greene here were competing against one another in a game, a one on one basketball wins. I'm going with me for sure. You think so? You can dominate the. It's pretty good.

[01:03:24]

I would say you probably beat me one on one. I'll just give you that. But I think we should have a team and we will destroy you.

[01:03:29]

I had a basketball hoop in the backyard. I don't have any more. So me and David against you who went that way. All right. I put a lot of work.

[01:03:41]

All right. Yeah, yeah. You should claim that. I got like I like the confidence. That's great. All right. Last question for me. What separates successful real estate investors from all those who give up, fail or never get started?

[01:03:53]

Yeah, I think it really comes down to staying in the game long enough or something to shake out. I think if you really want to be in real estate and make it work and you're showing up every single day, we're talking about persistent, consistent action. It is something is going to happen. Something is going to happen. So I think the main thing that separates people, there's mindsets behind that. There's tangible things you can do.

[01:04:12]

But if you're in the game long enough, whether you're an agent or you're trying to flip or do development or even buying stuff, something is going to happen if you're in the game long enough. So I think that is the biggest thing. All right. All right. Last question in the day. Where can people find out more about you? I'm most active on Instagram. It's at CORU to Johnson. Are you? You'd say you spelled out not rude.

[01:04:35]

So, yes, I answer everything on there. I'm not great about Facebook or anything else.

[01:04:39]

So that's that's where I spend most of my time. What's your what's your type businesses give a plug in that cold call and stuff and I think. Yeah. So we have a call Magic Leads and a partner with a couple of good buddies on. We are a full service call center for investors and agents, so we provide really good lead flow for that. And that was out of I took it out of my internal business and we made it something awesome that people can use.

[01:05:00]

And then besides website for that call, magically dot com submit a form. It's super easy. Yeah. All right. Good deal, man. Thanks. It's been it's been amazing. It's fun. It's fun. I mean, it's been a long time coming ever since you were here in Maui last time.

[01:05:14]

I was like, we got to get this guy on the podcast. I've got to do that in Maui. This was much better doing it in person. Yes, I like doing this in person. Phished. Awesome. All right. Well, David, you want to get us out of here? Thanks, man. This has been great. Yeah. Nice to have me on. David Greene for Brandon, it's Roof, not Rust Turner setting up.

[01:05:33]

You're listening to a bigger pocket's radio simplifying real estate for investors, large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from bigger pockets. Dotcom, your home for real estate, investing online.