Billy Lord apparently had a baby and then they OK, you guys, you guys wait, did I tell you that I psychically knew Mandy was pregnant?

Oh, no. Oh, my God.

Hi, everybody. Hi, it's me, it's me, I'm busy, Phillips, and this is busy, Phillips is doing her best. Am I doing my best? We're about to find out. I think so. I'm I'm joined by Sandra Jackson on Onkalo.

We had some technical issues, but honestly, it only took about 17 minutes. I mean, if you have not had a hard time with what is this, the SD card? Are you even living life? I don't know.

I just feel like in the last in the last bit of time, as we've all done, zoom, zoom, zooming, zooming, everything, therapy, work, meetings, pitches, meeting boy, potential suitors, I would imagine people are doing that. Yeah, there's there have been some mishaps, I'm sure. Well, I'm here I'm going to start I want to start with what I'm not doing my best at this week. Just real fast, just get out of the way.

Turns out. I'm not a company bitch, I forgot that when you agree to work for a corporation, you're not allowed to just post on your Instagram stuff without asking them first.

And so I had I had written that I wanted to talk about my new job, and I really do and want to tell the whole story and everything. And then as soon as I and I posted on my Instagram like tune into this week's podcast and I'm going to tell you all about my new job. And it's so exciting.

And I got like four texts as soon as it went up from different people involved saying so, you know, you actually can't do that because the studio wants to make the thing.

And I was like, so antiquated. What's wrong with everybody?

Everybody wants to be Lorne Michaels.

I know, but it's like but also it's like this is just such a different time.

And I feel like it has I feel like people it's again, Casey and I talked so much about it in regards to busy tonight, like what ends up happening.

It really large places of employment is people justifying their jobs. Right. Casey, am I being mean? Is this to mean. No, I don't think so.

I mean, OK.

But I also think that that is not even just big companies. There's a small everywhere has a person where you're just like your only job is to bother me. Right.

Because it feels like because it also feels like if you're like thinking critically about entertainment and media and there's so many I mean, the joke from Kimmy Schmidt, did you guys watch Schmidt, by the way, or just not?

Probably not. All of it was like a really funny joke.

And one of the last couple seasons, I can't remember which one about like they make up a streaming service that Titus's on a show on that's like made up streaming services are like no one will ever know, like, you know, there are so many. And that actually has become very true.

You know, like who what are all these services? What are these places where people can watch things?

And so I do feel a little bit like the old way of kind of doing things in terms of like we have a plan of how we're going to announce a thing like through deadline, like, who cares?

Just let the people if they have, they're going to they want to exploit my platform. When the show comes out, I'm sure that's my problem with it. It's like I built this thing by myself. I didn't have a fucking like my Internet presence, my Instagram and all of all of this, all of this. Like, I didn't have a consultant. I didn't have like a team of people helping me to decide, like, when I should talk to people about certain things or hold back or whatever.

And then and then and then they all respond to that. And they like businesses and corporations and studios and networks and whatever. And then and they want to use it to their advantage, i.e. like connecting with you guys, listeners, fans, friends.

However, they then all of a sudden don't trust me enough to know what the right way to do it would be and like how it would get the most people sort of like excited and on board and like want to be a part of it. I don't know.

Seems a little bit like there's a mis there's a missed thing there, you know, like we're taking a leap.

And my company is just like a company is like everything, just like the world at large. The only thing is that like people have differing opinions and then they get codified into like policy for the company. But you and I have even had things where you're like, I don't think you should like, you know, when we're working on something, you're like, I don't think you should announce that because it'll distract, like, from this other thing or whatever.

And then, like, between you and I, we're like, OK, you know, then I won't or whatever, you know what I mean? So I think it's just like that on a corporate level where you're not able to have a conversation with that person.

So I didn't really believe that everything that pisses is off is because one person fucked up the whole bad for everybody. Have you? That's what it is. It's like I have you ever, like, been in a meeting and then like somebody be like, yeah, on Tuesdays, don't don't flush tacos down the toilet.

You'll be like, wait, what did that you right. And you're like, that's a rule because somebody, somebody fucked up bad and they're like, now there's all these rules people like, well that's common sense. I would, I wouldn't flush all my tacos down the toilet on Tuesday. They'd be like, Yeah, you think that, huh?

Well, that's interesting. That's actually like a really good point. And, you know, I was on Dawson's Creek at the WB.

It's now the CW.

I love I was on Dawson's Creek after post Keri Russell cutting all her hair off. Yeah, right. And if you guys don't know what this is, basically the show Felicity Start Keri Russell. Who's Jean?

As you know her from the Americans, probably if you don't know her from Felicity, although if you don't know her from Felicity, why are we even friends and we had friends is also a good shirt.

Why are we even friends? OK.

And she had this, like, incredible hair, like the hair that you dream of, actually not dissimilar to one Miss Cricket Silverstein's hair.

I will say, although beautiful Curly and she was a white girl who really appreciated her curls and she loved her curls. It was hard pressed to find a white girl who wasn't straight, at least not in Tallahassee. So she she had curly hair and she was on board with it.

And the show was a big deal. And I, like, came out hot and then. And her hair is just gorgeous, and it's about her going to NYU, going to college basically to follow like a guy she had a crush on from high school, and that's how she and she changes the course of her whole life for that. And then before the second season, she wanted to chop her hair off. And the executive producer of the show was like, actually, that's kind of cool.

Like, that's a cool idea. And she chopped her hair off teeny like a pixie cut.

I mean, again, guys, late 90s, but also true to form for a freshman in college who goes to NYU. Totally, if anything she was doing, she was Medda. She got mad at you and she fucking shaved her head sophomore year. So she chops all her hair off.

And and then I think also there was extenuating circumstances like they changed the time that the show was on.

This is like pre DVR or whatever. There were other shows that came out that you're against it that were more competitive, we don't know.

But basically the ratings went down for Felicity and then the network decided that it had to do with the fact that she chopped her hair off for real.

Right. And then, like, I blamed it on the hair and then I was on the WB after that. And, like, you could not cut your hair without getting permission. It was like a contractual thing, like none of us could change. You couldn't change the hairstyle that you had as a woman. I'm sure the men were able to do whatever the fuck they wanted.

I'm sure that's so TACA. And that's fairly standard.

You know, that that your appearance, you're at least supposed to usually talk it over with your producers.

But it seemed like I'm curious. I would I would read a deep dive article on that.

There is one, I think. Oh, yeah, I'll look it up. But I did talk to the producers.

I'm sure that there is that any time, because when you have common sense, when you're like, I think at least moderately intelligent when you get up even like no shoes, no shirt, no service, I'd be like, why would I walk into a grocery store with no shoes and no shirt on? And then you're like, because at one point it was enough people doing that, that they were like, we got to make a rule and put it on the door like, oh my God.

It's like every time I see a bullshit rule, I genuinely am like, but like what happened.

Yeah. Let's get in the bar too. Yeah, I was going to say people are still trying to do.

No shirt, no shoes, no service.

When I worked at 30 Rock, Max Weinberg from Conan O'Brien's band used to walk down the hallway with his shirt off because the NBC gym was on my floor and I'd be like, gross, why can he do that here?

But not at 7-Eleven? I don't know. So I just feel like a lot of people are just dying to have their shirts off. I think that's really weird. Speaking of which way we're I now I'm skipping around.

We don't have to skip around. Well, anyway, so I'm not. I'm not. Never mind. I'm not skipping around. Cut that out.

OK, so so so it turns out I'm not good at being a company bitch, which is why I have said that I quit acting and I don't want to do it anymore.

That truly be why Casey and I had been trying to work on figuring out how to do things on our own terms. And if it hadn't been for that damn global pandemic, we would have gotten away with it, too.

And see, I do have a job that I been dying to tell you guys all all of you, all the story and what it is and what is happening.

And I can't yet. So I will when I can. And look, it's possible that, like, tomorrow I'll get the email.

That's like, all right, it's out so you can announce it sounds like it's going to be annoying for me, but we'll talk about it next week then. So I'm not great at that. But I had a reminder I'll do better. I hope you guys can wait with now, I feel like it's lame that it's going to be anticlimactic, but what we can't say lame anymore.

Oh, really? Yeah. It's like ablest. I've been. Is it. But yeah, it's enough. It's enough people mad about it that. OK, well that's fine. We don't.

OK, so no I mean I don't want to be I like truly have no desire to be that is it is, it is the thing that is hard because so many things like, like Blindspot fallen on deaf ears and tone deaf are all things that I've learned in the last year.

And you're an animal which a lot of people comment a lot a lot on my Instagram about my daughter Crickett, like she is my spirit animal. And I didn't realize that that's. That it's not that it's, you know, not OK and appropriation until several years ago when somebody, like, explained it to me and once, you know, you know, so I'm telling you right now, guys, I'm telling you, I'm trying to keep up. But like I've been like ever since we all watched disclosure, I've been like, really, really trying to be a better trans ally.

And then I just got this book called Disability Visibility. I truly like never in a million years thought of Tone-Deaf as being, like, rude or blind spot being rude. And it's like, oh, but you have to be open. I am just like I'm a black woman from the south. Like if I can be open to criticism and being wrong, I think everybody should. And we yeah, I learned I've been learning a lot of shit that I just did not know was like inappropriate.

Also Shinta, I just want to say I think that's amazing of you because also as a black woman from Tampa or whatever like you, you could also be like, I don't have to learn a fucking thing, do you know what I mean?

Like, you could close yourself off and you have it. And I appreciate that. And we all can do better.

Casey is the person that probably taught me that like it really, truly, though, because, like, there is something new to learn all the time and like all the time. So I'm finding that, like, I didn't grow up with a lot of disabled people in my community or just like just a differently abled. Yeah, we're not supposed to say disabled.

I believe it's differently abled. I thought, well, here's a thing. People read the book, read the book. I read the book because also some people who have said that they didn't like that. So, like, I just I'm just like I'm just gonna try to be better. Yeah.

I think you got to give yourself credit for trying to be better. A lot of these things kind of are a matter of opinion and sometimes you'll get differing opinions and then you have to decide, you know, but I think like I usually just try to say thanks for letting me know if someone lets me know and hope that people know my heart and know that, like, I would never intentionally say something harmful, but also intention. Intent doesn't matter.

It's the impact. And so when I say something that the impact hurt somebody, then it's on me to, like, try to do better. But I just hope that for the most part, people are always giving us a chance to feel better.

That's what happened with that Instagram post that I thought was like making that, like, truly made me laugh last week that I posted you because I did it.

I don't ever play music ever. I was in bed with cricket because guys, here's the other thing.

We were finding a new place to move into, and she's going to have a bedroom that doesn't have scary artwork on it. But she sleeps Leggate on top of me every night now. And she can't. She's too she's too freaked out. She's freaked out. I get it. She's a baby. She's seven, but she's like in bed with me asleep. So I look at Instagram. No sound obvious.

Yeah, I thought I like it.

Never registered to me that you guys. I posted this video. A friend sent me that when I watched it, I was like I thought it was so amazing because this funny dude was trying to it's funny with no sound. This dude was like trying to film a thirst trap of him getting out of the sea. And just like at the last second, as he's like glistening, this woman just like flies directly behind him, like photobombing him into the ocean, like carefree, having the best time.

And it just looked like the juxtaposition of just like him trying to be so fucking cool and her being like, I'm living my life, you know, was like made me lol.

And then I reposted it because it was just like has been such a hard time.

I and I never by the way also I never do that. If you follow me on Instagram, you know, I very rarely will post like a meme or like, Yeah.

Share a video.

But I did because it like made me laugh. I went to bed. I woke up the next morning early here on the East Coast, and I had a text from G.A. that was like, dude, the song playing is from the movie Free Willy. You need to take that down like people are new. You didn't say you need to take that down. You're like people are saying that she's a whale. Like that's fucked up or something like that.

I can read it. I don't know.

Yeah, but it was truly I watched it with no sound that I was like, I love the photobomb, I love it. And then I went back to it and truly while I was scrolling, I accidentally tapped it. And then I was like, oh, no, I did. I texted you immediately. And it was like so many people also were posting the same thing is just being like. I didn't listen to the sound and I was like, fuck, it's just like you can't enjoy yourself without being very thorough.

Oh, that's right. It's just like I left. Let me open this all the way and see what's going on, because you would never know. Because also I felt really I felt really stupid, like I felt really dumb.

I did cry, of course, but mostly then I looked at I read comments and stuff and I just felt terrible. I just felt like that's the thing.

Like I didn't it wasn't to me in viewing it with the sound off and somebody was like, even with the sound off, it's, you know, like fat shaming and whatever. And I was like, I disagree. But I also maybe not in a position to say that.

But I mean, I, I can see the point of someone saying, you know, like the reason why the reason why people are like, oh, this is so funny is because it's like a bigger woman who's just like living her life despite like society's you know, you know, it does it OK, not to be crazy, but which you're also not supposed to say, oh, motherfucker.

But if you're like, bonkers now, you know, it's the same thing we are. This is another rabbit hole.

Like bonkers means not mentally well. So you know what I mean? It's like it's like when, you know, they named that Shrek movie Shrek Happens. And I'm like, everybody knows you're like making a porn about shit, even though you said Shrek.

But anyway. OK, no, I'm saying. I didn't. OK, this is going to sound I don't know I don't know what it's going to sound like, but. I didn't I I didn't look at her body like I didn't notice her body as being a part of it, and then when I did after the whole thing, I was like, kind of just looks like me. Like she just looks athletic. She looked like. Just like a person with a body.

Yeah, well, like she's not like she's not a model, like she's not like an extra skinny, like super skinny, skinny person that's like doesn't you know, I mean, it just looks like a normal part of what we're saying is that, like, everybody has a different interpretation of like how they see these things, you know, like I'm I'm a larger person and like so I can only, you know, I can only say what things mean to me and how things look to me.

So my perspective and how I walk through life is going to be different than, you know, than nine one. And like somebody who looks exactly like me, I could have a twin that feels very differently than I feel. But I do I will say that, you know, the reason why I get that is because sometimes when I wear something sexy, people make like a really super big deal out of me wearing something sexy and not like in a nice way.

And so I'm like, no, I look at you. You look at your tits out. Oh, you know. And I'm just like so I know that there are certain things that people are like there are certain things that you have a right to do and certain things that you don't have a right to do. So wearing something where your tits are out or diving off a cliff behind a hot guy are not on the list of things that you should do looking the way that you look.

So I think that that's probably the way some people interpreted it that by.

But that makes me sick.

Yeah, it's it's gross, you know. Right. And so and so anyway, I just like, deleted it.

And then I posted a a wonderfully thorough and I believe genuine apology, which is the part that a lot of people skip when they delete stuff that got them, quote unquote, in trouble. They deleted it. And it's like apologize.

Well, I like there are two things. When you're a person who, like, has a tendency to get, like, put in People magazine for your Instagram stories or whatever one is like. Is this the thing that I want to make? Into something bigger. You know what I mean, or should we or should I just, like, be quiet and then it'll, you know, you don't want that to fit, right?

Hollywood, you don't want the Streisand effect and you can use Hollywood break. What is this? Streisand, if you're not on Twitter, God bless you.

So. Oh, I can't remember the story, though, but it was. Oh, I know it. You know, I just showed what happened to the Streisand effect. But you tell the story because I can't remember why she was upset. She was suing paparazzi for not. Publishing photos of her house in Malibu because she didn't want people to know where she lived, but in suing them for that. Her address was disclosed.

Oh, that's what benzer then it was like. And so then it was like by making a big deal out of a thing that, like most people wouldn't have been able to, like, figure out, then it became a big deal, a huge deal. And then everybody and not only that, it was like a big story. And then everyone was talking about it and I was like, oh, she lives in on Malibu Colony Drive or whatever it is like, I don't know, I'm making that up.

But maybe it is that, but you know what I mean. And so then and then it was like the exact thing that she was trying didn't want to happen.

Yes. It was like became this huge deal.

It's just I mean, that kid, if you've never listen to the podcast, a friend of my friend's ex-boyfriend poop the trampoline. And when he pooped the trampoline, he was like, you never put the trampoline before. And it was like, dude, you're screaming about this. Like we were just going to, like, let you poop the trampoline. So, like, Barbra Streisand put the trampoline and then I let everybody instead of just being like, I'm going to clean up the trampoline.

She told everybody not to talk about it. And then in doing that, everybody knew she put the trampoline right by it.

So I think that that's the thing that, like a lot of people deal with online in terms of deciding, weighing whether or not to just like up and like move on or if they should make a statement but make a statement or say something or whatever.

Yeah, but for me personally. You know, even just at like 6:00 in the morning or whatever, after I read your text, I was like, oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, fuck, oh fuck.

And I went and I watched it. And then and then I started reading some comments. I was like, so heartbroken. I was like, I can't not address this.

Because first of all, just because it didn't occur to me doesn't mean that it didn't occur to someone else and hurt them.

And even if it didn't hurt somebody else, like even just perpetrating that, like putting it into the world and having somebody.

Have it come across it accidentally or whatever and giving them that feeling, I would just never want to do that. I would just that's just that's antithetical to everything that I want to do in this world.

And so that's basically why I was like, OK, I'm going to like and I thought that, like, I don't well, tbh, I don't really know how to do the thing that people do where they like, make their own Instagram of words unless it's in stories. Is it like an app?

You use your notes. I can take a screenshot. Oh really. I do not I don't know how to do a lot of stuff. So text and and whatever color pops up when I make an Instagram story, that's the color that. Yeah. I don't know how to do that. I kind of don't do that either with the changing the colors, the answer anyway. But the point being like I also don't love when people post texts like that on, I don't know, whatever, that's just a personal thing.

So I just wanted to post like a cozy photo of a par of genos par and then just say, like genuinely a I feel like gross about this, but it's not about me.

You know, I'm just really sorry if anybody. If it felt gross or felt upsetting or hurt anyone in any way, or even just made someone feel like that's a bummer, you know, because even that's the stuff that, like chips away at you, right? It's like it doesn't have to be like a huge thing where you're, like crying on the ground. If you're a person who is constantly experiencing some form of, you know, being, like, marginalized in some way.

Right.

And certainly we know that people are are mean to people who don't conform to like a very specific body type that is like I don't even know set by who we don't know right now.

Then it's like, yeah, I thought it was great that you apologized just because, you know, it sets the standard of like being able to apologize, which a lot of people are really terrible at, just very, very bad at apologizing.

And by the way, you know, I mean, you can you apologizing is like a learned skill and you might not get at one time and get better at it another time if you ever do it more than once in your life.

It's hard if you've never been apologized to as an adult.

I have learned, you know, from moving away from home. My parents have apologized to me. I have I learned boundaries from my parents really, truly. And I didn't know about that until I met a bunch of people who had no boundaries and I never been apologized to. So my dad and my mom have both sincerely been like, I'm sorry about that. I'll never do that again. I respect your feelings. And then I got into the real world and I was like, yeah, but like when my dad apologized and they were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Yeah, that is what I was like.

Well, he said he was sorry and then he kept that promise and never did that or said that again. And they were like, yeah, like that's not a thing. So I do believe that there are people who have never genuinely been apologized to when they've tried to set boundaries or when they've made their feelings known.

So it is a learned skill that a lot of times you learn after you are in your you're growing up. Yeah, I would hope you, like, learn stuff when you're like a full blown adult. And then that's when it's a decision, because when you grow, you ain't got to learn shit.

Maybe maybe there's like an apology consultancy business that, you know, if you want to like if you want to run your apology by me, I'll be happy to tell you.

Hey, Casey, you basically do that. I've asked you to do that for people before. Yeah, it's true. It's true. This is true. Like, she's she's she's good at it. Here's the deal, though. You have to be willing to hear it. Yeah, that's that's the thing.

A lot of times people will say, like, you know, and working in TV, you know, especially like live television, it happens more than ever. Anything, any live format. People fuck up, you know, like we we fucked up between the three of us, like eleven times since we hit record on this podcast today, not even knowing, you know, so it happens. But then when you're like, you know, when you're someone's right hand on a TV show, not naming any names, but because it's every name.

But when you're someone's right hand and they're like, oh, shoot, I fucked up. And people are upset, you know, I'll be so, so honest about like, well, here's what you got to say.

But yeah, a lot of people don't a lot of people don't want to and they just, you know, they kind of want to let themselves off the hook. And, like, I didn't mean anything by it. And it's like, yeah, but it's not about you at this point. It's about everybody else. Well, that's that's the thing. That's the like I'm sorry you took it that way or whatever is not an apology.

That's for the college boyfriend apology for sure. I mean, or you know, like, well, I didn't mean it that way, so I'm sorry that everybody thought it, but it's like, well, so what if that's also not an apology? You have to, like, really understand. Now, I think I'm really on this kick this week about empathy. Yeah. And I really think. That this is that the problem, the problems politically in our country right now, in this moment, like all come down to empathy?

Well, truly, this is like genuine studies have shown that that like that part of your brain that lights up to be empathetic is usually it lights up more and people who consider themselves to be liberal. Dude, that's wild. Yeah.

So how do we get it lit? So how do we get it lit up in some other people. How do we get it lit as the kids say. Yeah, I don't I mean like truly I think that there is a way for it to be taught. But exactly like Casey said, you have to be willing to learn it.

And I don't know if the people that we want to learn it ever going to be like, yeah, teach me that stuff.

While people the people that I know who have like are liberal and progressive and can still learn and be better, like, I will even say that to toot our own horn. But us if somebody came up to me today and was like, I have a way for you to be more empathetic, I'd be like, give it to me, baby. So.

Right. Right. I think I think a big problem in the country is like, you know, you hear the phrase American exceptionalism. And I think this is a problem, you know, where we've been taught like we're number one and we're the strongest. And to show weakness is un-American and that it's OK to be out for yourself. And you can live the American dream. And, you know, you can have the car in the house that you dream of and you're free to have the job that you dream of.

But we know that in practice, both on the left and the right, that's not necessarily true. So I think you have a lot of frustrated Americans who are like, listen, I'm not getting all of the things that I was told that I was free to have and that I was entitled to. Right.

So you can say, like, that's a problem of the right is that is that people are like, we want to take away your rights. We want to take away your freedoms, make it more difficult for you. And then on the left, we're very empathetic, but also like maybe not super honest, like, look at the covid, you know, like look at coronavirus. Like you would think that, like people on the left, half of the country, we should have this shit, like half beat.

I know that's not the way that pandemics work. Yeah, but how many people are like, you know, we all have to protect each other, slow the spread the law, and then you're like, OK, but why are you at a birthday party?

A bitch that is deeply entrenched American exceptionalism. Yes. Yes. We have to slow the spread. We have to do what we can to take care of each other, all except for me because I have some errands and I want to ice coffee and then I'm going to my friend's birthday party. And I think that that's like a milder form of exceptionalism.

Is this about me going to Whitney Cummings piercing party?

Well, no, it's not, because I believe that that was probably like a super careful, you know, like I think that everybody probably was super careful. Well, everybody got swabbed.

Right, exactly. So, you know, but I do think that some people like see that and they're like, oh, fuck it. Like, I'm just going to go play, you know, touch football or what, you know what I mean?

Like, yeah, I think that everybody is kind of like pushed to their limit. And so people are just saying, well, it's like it's OK if I just do this one thing because it's just me and like, again, you know, your own heart and you know your own situation.

But then I think that other people are just like, well, why can't I have that? I'm just can't do that.

I also truly, genuinely believe that, like, this administration has given so many people so little hope that they're like, well, I'm going to go play touch football because they're not going to help us.

And I think that, like, we it is the last thing we can control. And I think that even when people your own free will. Yeah, your own free will. And at first it was like a bunch of, like, weird white men with AK 47 being like, we hate this. You're intruding on our right. And then it was like a bunch of hipsters in Williamsburg being like, oh, so like, we're not going to do anything.

Well, then I've got to go Kaputa in the park. Oh, I think that that is the I think that that is what happened. I think that's generally what happened is that for six months, everybody I know, it's been like we just going to stay inside and then goodness will prevail. And then like everything else, the last four years. Good, right. Prevail. Right. And it's like, well, I guess if evil is just going to be out in the street with guns, I could at least throw my fucking Frisbee, which I mean, I think is sad because I do think that so many people are still trying.

I mean, like, I'd be in my house, I'd be in the house, borbor it in the house for it, like I'd be in my house, but. I know that it's hard out here. It's really hard also when you see, like, a bunch of bad people just hanging out and you're like, yeah, that's not nice. I know.

I see so many people who are like, you know, on social media, they'll be like, I'm judging people so hard. I see them out without masks or I see them out to dinner.

And I'm like, you know, we like we can't judge because we don't know. And it's weird because it's out there on social media for us to, like, evaluate. So what are you supposed to do? It's natural to evaluate. But I'm always telling myself, like, I shouldn't judge because I don't know the whole story. I only have, like, a certain like one picture of what this might be.

But then, like, I belong to like a mom's group.

And literally every day somebody is like, so do we think it's like safe for me to have like 12 people birthday party with, like a really small one for my two year old with just like twenty other two year olds?

And I'm like, no, no. I've been saying, like, I just yell, you know, in the comments of these things, like every day since March. And I'm like, well, so much for me not judging anyone. Like I just took all my 1000 judges that I patted myself on the back for not judging and like, just dump them all on this one, mom, OK.

OK, so here's the thing. One of my favorite stories in the whole world is Casey Sun. Also my son Lincoln had a birthday ahead of his birthday, was like on a Tuesday. And then like they were like, oh, like his dad has to work or celebrate his birthday on a Saturday because kids don't know if your child is under the age of five. They got no birthday to raise over next year. Just be like your birthday is the day after charango bends over.

They don't forget, though, they don't know when Christmas. They really don't. They know when you tell them everything can't be like with Christmas. And you could just be like next Thursday if you celebrated Christmas to day, they'd be like this Christmas. Just fucking tell everybody their birthday, Christmas, Halloween. All that shit is next summer. It's coming. It's coming. No, it's got June and that's in like, OK, just buy them a toy, give them some egg yolks and they won't believe anything that's so true.

A three year old more in my life. You tell a three year old their birthday is every day. This week they'll be like, OK, my little cousin used to be obsessed with fossilise obsessed. What our family is, was all this is like it's like a talian McDonald's. It's like Doley is OK futsal this he was obsessed with the restaurant was always to the point where one day we were just like, I'm sorry but it broke down. And guess what?

He believed it immediately. And then a month and a half later, after we were ready to go back to fossilise, we were like, they rebuilt it and we took a new facilities. Guess what? They don't know shit.

Oh, yeah. I got a.. I fucking love that. I love it.

I say, if you're really stressed out and you're really feeling bad about, like, not having a birthday party, not having a Halloween party, they don't fucking know. No, they don't know.

I mean either like you're either like a child and you don't have object permanence yet or you're a child who's old enough to have object permanence, but you're resilient or you're a fucking adult. Yeah.

You know, so like either of those any one of those three sentences are like an OK reason to maybe postpone.

I'm just like I had it, but I've also had it with myself.

So but also but also I do have to say, like what we did this summer with Sam and Bents and their kids, like felt great to us, which was like we partied with another family. We all lived in the same house, our groceries were delivered, our food was delivered or picked up. We didn't eat in any restaurants like we and our kids all played with each other.

And you have family. And that's the thing. We pod fam we commute, we we commune debt. We started a commune for one for six weeks.

I did communes or so she cumquat know that she. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I was gonna say that I think commune's community in general is so important and that American culture is one of the few cultures that we do not commune. We're very individualistic and I think that that has definitely hurt us and hindered us in our ability to like, really, really stop this pandemic. Because in so many other countries, grandmothers and great aunts live. You don't have to worry about sending your kid to school because your grandparents live it.

We're a very, very, very individualistic country. And I think that people being to being able to have a community is what's been built from this. Yes, because like before, I used to be like, I don't really talk to that bitch, but I'll go to this bar for her birthday. I ain't going there. Nobody. Is for something that I kind of know now, like really you really solidified your community when this is over, I'm pretty sure I'm assuming that the people that you genuinely decided that you were willing to take your mask off for are the people that you will be spending most of your time with when this is over, as opposed to stopping to go to a bar party for somebody that you kind of like.

I really do think that this will instill a sense of community in this country, unlike anything we've seen for a really long time.

Everybody is changing the way that they're living and thinking about the way that they want to live because of this, too, I think. All right. So let's before we get to our wonderful, beautiful guest today, Casey, what were you best at this week?

I am just like I'm over it.

I, I know I'm worried, but I have to be honest, I'm worried about you.

It be like that.

I like my life is so the same that I got my period again, which if you listen to the podcast, you know, was three weeks ago, my body is so fucking bored with my life that my uterus was like let's just like let's make it socialistic and buy tampons.

Like that's what's happening. That's, that's it. And I am like so over the course then I want to cry. But, you know, I just feel like. That's it, that's like I have to keep doing it. Yeah, it's it's frustrating. I respect that. I be mad sometimes to be in my house. I even like going places. That's how, you know, it's bad because I'm like, I don't even like going places, but I sure wish I could go.

Yeah. It's like, you know, it's kind of scary. And then I'm like and you know, and I'm having the same thing as I'm sure every mom who's like trying to throw a party for their two year old where I'm like, why am I doing this if no one else is doing this, why am I doing this? You know, so it's frustrating to be in a place in my life where my life feels so shut down because of this pandemic that's happening, but it doesn't seem shut down for anyone else.

But I know that's just like me being in my own feelings about it. But I also don't.

Here's the thing. I mean, you are in your own feelings a little bit, which you're allowed to be. But like, I don't understand.

There are no like it feels like, well, I'm not in L.A., so I don't know what the what's being said to do there. That's what I'm saying.

If there's nothing that's like rules, there ain't no rules. I just saw this honestly. There's so much ain't no rules. It's pissing me off because like I was in my neighborhood, there is like a bunch of restaurants, as many neighborhoods are prone to have, and they have like taken the street parking and turned it into outside eating. Yeah, that's what they've done in all of New York. That's what everything looks like. And the same thing I just saw in New York that they like passed an ordinance that if there's any free available space outside that, like, you can commandeer it for your restaurant.

But then I was like but like went about all the homeless people who would commandeer free space and would, like, get arrested. But now you can just like, put a table there. Right. Okay, cool. That's cool. So that made me mad. We have been told that there is no money, there's no time. There's no way for anybody to get together and fix a problem problems before the pandemic. Now, the problem is that people need to be able to eat outside.

And we got ordinances flying left and right. There was time for meetings. There was time for money. There was time for talks in order to get that going. But when we talk about like a. like aggressive architecture for our unannounced neighbors, there's no time for a meeting. There's no money, there's no discussion. So I think for me, what I feel like, what I say, there are no rules. It's like, oh, there's time and there's rules for like you to fucking make your capitalism blow.

But like, there's no time, there's no rules, there's no extra meetings. But we're also late, just to be fair.

Yeah, we're not all we're also not talking about like Applebee's just because I have a lot of friends who who like our chefs who've opened small businesses, small restaurants and shit like and people my and a ton of friends who are like career waiters and like or who use leading to work.

And Bartram was great. We don't have a we don't have a country that like we don't have a government set up that like wants to support us. They bailed out a cruise ship. Billionaire Trump paid seven hundred and fifty how the fuck I can with the seven hundred and fifty dollars. I'm so angry about the seven hundred and fifty dollars and I'm even angrier that the fucking people that support him are going to be like, oh, it just means he's smarter than everybody else like and not see it for what it is, which is just a giant fucking cheat scam.

Horrible, ridiculous thing. And they're like, well, we shouldn't have to pay any taxes.

It's like, well, that's what that's what we're taught. Yeah, that's that's what we're talking about. Everybody cheats. Yeah. Everybody that's why people are going outside now because they're like, nobody's going to do anything about that. I've got to go. I need the piano. But they never said there was no plan in place. But and here's but here's the thing. Italy successfully had a shut down for three months and then they were able to reopen things slowly.

England did it. Germany did it. Other places, other countries did in New Zealand did it? Yeah, well, New Zealand just shut it all the fuck down and they were fine. But like everybody else did a thing where they had, like a plan. This is the plan. And then we're going to slowly reopen. And what happened here is that there was no plan. Yeah, right. And then they told us there was going to be a shut down for a finite period of time and they would slowly reopen and they've just bungled the whole thing.

And so now people are like, you cannot expect everyone to halt everything for the next two years because you didn't, like, institute a plan and because you lied to us about masks. They lied to us. And now this whole Kuhnen see that tweet from that woman about how the the coincidence that the masked singer was the great, you know, was the number one show one year before the pandemic hit, indoctrinating us all into wearing masks, whatever.

I'm just saying that, like, I think that a lot of people, myself included.

Feel as though I mean, first of all, there are no adults taking charge, there's no cohesive plan, and they're.

You know, if everybody wore masks, we know people, good people could do this, we could continue to live as a sort of version of our lives by going into stores, going to participate in, you know, whatever commerce.

But if everyone I don't know, whatever. But if everybody wore masks, everyone wore masks and committed to it, we could really get this under control. And I also read a thing last week that was like now there's new studies that they think that people who wear masks all the time are actually helping to boost their immune system because if little tiny bits get through.

What you're doing now say no, I, I read that, too, I wish they would word that differently because it sounds so like fantastical. They're basically saying that, like, the severity of a covert infection that you get is because of the viral load, the amount of the virus that you that you inhale. And that's why, like we've lost so many frontline health care workers because they're just like it's overload is huge.

Yeah.

This huge viral viral load.

So I wish that they had just been more explicit in explaining the science behind, you know, why masks protect you. But I feel like there were like looking for a new for like a new headline on it, because, again, because American America is such an individualistic country that we have to like saying that masks save your lives isn't like enough of an ad campaign for masks.

You still like you know what I mean?

Like, people are like, I'm fucking free to not wear a mask. And and you're absolutely right, Busi.

Like, if we had shut down, if we had had a plan, everything would have gone so much better. But a lot of it's also on us, you know, like I'm the adult in my house. So like here's what I'm choosing to do, even though it's making me want to die.

It's exhausting. I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's exhausting being right. I would love to be wrong. I won't be so wrong. I want I want to be wrong as hell. I want everything I'm doing to be wrong, everybody aside to be right. And for me to be like, damn, I wasted six months, but I was wrong.

I well, you know, what's so great about being wrong is it is like if you're open to being wrong, then you get to be right immediately after. As soon as you discover that you're wrong, then you know the right thing. And then you're like, holy shit, now I'm super right.

But that it's wrong. Right? But this circles back. Oh, my God, there's a mosquito. I want to kill it. We'll cut that out because we'll cut that out so we don't get dragged. No mosquitoes have no place in this ecosystem. I hate them. I know.

I mean, I just like but it all circles back to like legit what we were talking about from the very top, which is that we don't all know all things.

And the truth is, once you find out you have a responsibility to do better and to and to genuinely accept or apologize for things that you may have done wrong in the past.

Like, for instance. Like Casey, I told you, but like I am sorry that I said the thing to you about, like, don't I don't think you should announce that thing because we're going to do this other thing. And like you said, just one other thing. You know what I mean?

Like, I feel like I don't know. That's cryptic, but. Well, that's what I mean. Yeah, that's cryptic. It's about a conversation that Bazian I had and I wasn't trying to, like, drag it back up or whatever. But I mean, it's also like a lesson for me. Yeah.

I should have just done that thing. I maybe shouldn't have even asked in the first place, you know what I mean?

You got to take it to the group chit chat and you get the group chats opinion. And at the end of the day, you do whatever you want. At the end of the day, everybody is always doing exactly what they want to do all the time.

Yeah. Uh, Shinjiro, you have anything you want to mention that you're doing your best at this week before we move on?

I'm doing my best at trying to eat the rest of the food in my fridge before I'm not God. You're really committed to this move, honey.

I thing I this weekend I was like, let me just I watch the barbecue and I was like, let me one of these ribs. And then I was like, I ordered some chicken unmatchable or some pizza. Like I just eat like garbage. And I was like, oh my fridge is full of real food. Snoring So for the rest of the week I'm trying to be a good grownup and eat the food. That's OK in the house.

Are you do you like behaving like a monster? Are you just like eating like a fistful of carrots over the garbage?

I mean, like this one I like I made some eggs and bacon because I was just like, I'm not taking these eggs AMA.

So, like, that's the worst item to try to move anywhere else. Oh, it's like it's like eggs in here. They need their own truck. You can't throw away eight eggs. So I know that's ridiculous. So I'm really truly in my fridge like all right. Like I'm not trying to take four carrots and sticks eggs with me this weekend. So like I'm just trying to I'm like my mom would always be like, we got food at home, we got food.

So that's what I'm trying to do.

Well, guys, I like that for you. I like that we're all kind of just, I don't know, stumbling through this, never ending all learning. I think we're all learning. We're all going to be better. And I think that's really important. I think anybody who's listening to this podcast genuinely is hoping to hear some stuff they never heard, learned some stuff they never learn and they laugh. So like, good, all your eggs in your fridge.

All right. Well, should we just get into our guess or should we? Yeah. I mean, like, we made a list of pop culture things to talk about. But to be honest, none of it's that interesting because like, you know, the world is insane.

And here's here's here's a Hollywood break.

When you, like, work on a talk show or you work on a podcast or whatever, and you're looking for topics to like, you know, just jaw over discuss and like the number one topic is like it's also his birthday or whatever that, you know, like there's like, oh, my God.

I mean, like, happy birthday to Halsy. I love her.

Is it her? Is it her birthday? It was well, you know that she was staying in this house with the artwork before me.

I guess I found her. OK, I know that. Well, no, why would you? I'm just telling you now, I don't know why I did, you know, because I didn't tell you.

I love Halsy because she's black and people don't know she's black. So she always be like, people say shit to me and then I call them out and I love that. I love secret black people.

I love whenever there's a day on Twitter when people realize that Halsy is black and then it's like a whole day of people, black and white, people of all colors, being like all these black.

I think with Slash, I love when people find out Slash is black. So she's like, I'm Jewish and black out of date is going, I love that kind of shit. Well, so yeah, it's like it's a little bit of a pop culture. Slow news day. I know the presidential debate was last night, but we're recording this before watching it. I don't even think I'm going to watch it. I don't think Joe Biden should even participate in it, because I think it's such a fucking shame that this other mother fucker is even treated like a legitimate candidate or anyone who has any.

I should debate Joe Biden, you know what I mean? Like, just fucking put me in there. Here's what I did. Like, I liked this thing that you put in Casey.

I don't know if it was for me about all the babies. There were so many. There have been so many celebrity babies.

I guess Joaquin Phoenix and Rooney Mara had a baby and named the Baby River, which is so sweet after his late brother, who was gorgeous, beautiful soul actor Billy Lord, apparently had a baby and then they.

Oh, have you guys. You guys wait. Did I tell you that I psychically knew Mandy was pregnant? Oh, no.

Oh, my God. You know how sometimes I'm psychic about stuff?

Yeah, this is weird. This is this one is weird. So Mandy and I are friends.

We're on a group chat together. We also text each other separately about things from time to time, but I like definitely not like inner circle friends, but like we're definitely good like friends were, but we're brothers.

So anyway, I was in my kitchen doing dishes in August and I this is the weirdest thing. And I was like, put a dish down and I was like, oh, Mandy's pregnant. How weird is that? And I texted her, I want to read it to you. She won't. I don't. I hope you won't mind. I mean, maybe I'll ask her, but I don't think she will because she thinks it's really funny. So I said, OK, don't think I'm crazy, but this morning I was in my kitchen arranging flowers, OK, so I got the story wrong already.

But this morning I was in my kitchen arranging flowers and I was like, Mandy's pregnant. You don't have to tell me if you are. I just wanted you to know I'm really psychic about these things. And if you are, I think it's all going to be great. Plus, I think maybe girl, but I'm not good at that part. And if not, maybe it's a new idea or something you're working on. But I really feel like it's a baby.

I had to tell you because it was just so wild. Hope you guys are doing well. And then she wrote back, friend, you are very psychic.

But if the boy when they announced it's a boy.

So I feel like it's OK, she's like, this is very impressive. I hope you're well. Congrats on the podcast. I've subscribed anyway. If Mandy Moore subscribed, you should too.

Yeah, but isn't that crazy that I fucking knew she was pregnant? I'm glad that she knew already because could you imagine just being like Betty says, I'm pregnant. God. Oh my God. Like I love that she already knew. Yeah. Would be in a weird way to find out.

I know I have a weird thing might it's the same thing with my trainer, Lauren, who had her third baby like eight weeks ago, who does my lack fit.

But in the fall of last year, she had like just found out she was pregnant and I was working out next to her.

And I don't know if you've ever watched these, like, fit workouts that I do with Lauren, but she is like the tiniest human that's ever lived and like, ripped like she's like muscles on top of muscles, especially in her stomach. So she didn't there was no physical. She was really a new pregnant. And I was just working out next to her. And I was like, oh, my God, she's gonna have a baby. She's pregnant.

And then after class, I didn't I didn't want to like again like that. I didn't want to tell her something she didn't already know, kind of.

So I was like Sudi. Going to have more kids, maybe she looked at me just like what? No, no, no, no. That's why would you know, we're opening the studio. I'm not going to have any more kids.

I was like, oh, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I just felt like maybe there's a vibe for another kid, for you.

And then like after she passed the 12 week mark, you know, she was like, OK, she texted me and she was like, Dude, I can't believe you called my pregnancy. I was like three weeks pregnant. What the fuck?

You're like, no dogs. You can, like, smell sickness, but you could smell it practically.

When I worked for Rosie O'Donnell the day that 9/11 happened, she she came and come back after 9/11.

But it's weird. It's not shocking. I love this is this is the weirder thing.

I was standing with the cast of Everybody Loves Raymond when 9/11 happened. We're like waiting to do the show. But then everybody was like figuring out what was happening. My son was in the daycare and then Rosie came and she was like, get your kid and I have a car waiting downstairs. I'm going to take you to my house because I don't think you can get home to Brooklyn. And I was like, OK. And then in the car, she was like, I know you're pregnant, by the way.

And I was like, how do you know? Like, I haven't told anyone. But she did it Colombo style, because she was like, you haven't been drinking Diet Coke for like six weeks. Oh.

So she just got it from like the clues, which is why Rosie O'Donnell maybe learned a little bit from Harriet the Spy and good luck to solve crimes in real life. Well, let's get to our guests, because she's someone that I also think of as a Harriet the spy type. True.

Don't you feel like that? Like she could if she could play Harriet the spy grown up when she was little. She had that for sure vibe, right? Sure. She could do that. Yeah. I've seen pictures of her as a kid. She definitely looked like Harriet the spy. I bet you she if she and this is just a free idea that I'm giving to the world, whoever wants to write it. If you want to write Gillian Jacobs Netflix show where she stars as a grown up Harriet the Spy, you have to go for it.

Gillian Jacobs is one of my favorite people in the world. We love her so much. She's a great friend and a good person and really a true life. Harriet the Spy. Let's take a listen to what she has to say.

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Oh, my God. Shoot. Should I go put on a doen dress? Should I? Karmi I can do it real fast. I'm wearing a bathing suit. I could do whatever you want on right over. Yeah, I wish I could take you with me. Hold on one second. She asked you. I feel like I should be thinking about it for the whole time that she doesn't do it right now. So like we should just go ahead.

Yeah, just let her do it right. That reminds me of like when I was little and solid, gold was like it was solid gold night and I would always put on a leotard, even though I was a little drunker and pushed back all the furniture. That's similar. I think you have to you have to do it. I mean, for me, it was a Aliya's. Are you that somebody avideo they used to come on Disney Channel like it was like Disney Channel in the summer.

They would play music videos in between the shows. So it was like Alyea in In-Sync and Britney Spears. And I remember watching that video and being like, everybody shut up and just like really trying to do that during those four minutes in between, like bug juice and something.

I loved bug juice, by the way. Did you did you ever watch it? I'm just going to say my mom would never pay for that cable package. Gillion, where are you? I'm in my bedroom. You are? Yes, I'm standing in my bedroom. You're standing. I was given a music stand. I did this podcast or recorded from home in the podcasting company, sent me a music stand. So now I put my laptop on the music stand because I figured I'm like doing a standing desk equivalent.

Oh, that's actually OK.

So Gillian Jacobs, my friends that I met at a dinner party. How many years ago, 10, 11 and nine, maybe, when was it? Yeah, television 20. Well, you had done the pilot of community, I think it was twenty nine and it had been picked up, but you hadn't yet moved to L.A.. So whatever year that was you guys, you do the math. I don't know. Twenty nine. OK, at the end of it we were seated next to each other.

Yes. Yeah. Our friend's birthday party. Small intimate dinner. Birthday party and. We fell in love, but then really became friends. Over the next two years, I would say I would agree. Yeah, well, I didn't realize my good fortune at being seated next to you at a dinner party and what a difference it would make for my life. So, yes, thank you.

Phil Pavel, our friend.

You really see me next, you know? Yeah, I. I had come to L.A. I auditioned in L.A., but I had never lived there. I didn't really know anyone. And it was kind of daunting, the prospect of starting over really in a lot of ways moving to L.A. And so you've made a huge difference in my life. That's really sweet.

Did you was that we were just we've talked to other people about like Pivot's in terms of moving across the country or moving to a different place. So it feels like that. I mean, you had no choice because it was a job like you had to go.

And you how long had you been in New York for?

I lived there to go to college, so I had been there for about eight years, total between college and time after college. Yeah.

I mean, that's a long time to live in a city. And you had, like all your friends and all of that. And so what was the thing that made it like easier for you? Was there a thing that made it easier for you? Well, aside from meeting busy Philipps, I'd say and having a job and having a job, I was going to say that was the next thing that really was helpful. And I'm a person who likes structure and routine.

So having a job that gave me a sense of purpose and a schedule and all of those things helped.

And then I also did feel like I was meeting a whole new world of people because I'd been in the world of tiny independent film and off, off, off, off, off, off, off, off, off, off Broadway theater in New York.

And I was meeting all kinds of new people, just being more on TV and going to parties with people on television. But then also, I think it's like I don't know if it was like for you all, all of you, but when you meet the people in L.A. who are like, no, go here, no, go to this restaurant, go to this place, and then you suddenly see a whole other side of L.A., because when I would come here before I lived here, I didn't know where to go or what to do.

I used to go to the Beverly Hills Public Library just to be around people.

So am nothing's more gillion than you used to go. One of my favorite stories about Gillion from her high school years is the only time she ever lied and skipped school was because there was an exhibit she really wanted to see at the Met was in Pittsburgh.

But yeah, in Pittsburgh.

Yes, I skipped school to go to a museum and then I still got in trouble. You still got to go?

Yeah. My mom turned me into the school and told me I had to go and apologize to each of my teachers for disappointing them.

And I was a senior in high school and she was 17 years old and she wanted to see an exhibit that was closing at a museum.

And so and you probably already were in Juilliard. You probably had already gotten in.

Yeah, it is that thing where you're your senior year of high school where you know where you're going. Also, Juilliard didn't ask for my transcripts, my any of my grades until after they accepted me and they never asked for my SAT score. So I had lost all motivation to do the worst case of senioritis.

Yes, it really was irrelevant. All I had to do was graduate high school. And so, yeah, my mom my mom told me I had to go apologize to all of my teachers for disappointing them. Wow. I remember I went to one teacher and did it and she said, you know what? You needed to cut loose a bit.

Don't worry about that. I apologize. I love her. Do you is that teacher still around? I have I you know what? I haven't talked to her really since I graduated, but she was like, this is also very me. Like at the end of the year, we did like a little thank you presentation to the teacher because she was a really great teacher and I started crying and all the kids in the class looked at me like such a loser.

Very me.

I bet she's so proud of you if she's out there watching.

Oh, yeah. Did you. So you went to Juilliard for acting and then off off Broadway and then you got cast on community and you moved to L.A. and that was a pivot. And you met me. And then I was like, I'm going to change your life. I know.

But you you know, you've built you built a really great life in L.A. and, you know, with Chris, your partner. And so I guess my question is. You've made sort of a career pivot, and I'm curious about you're still acting, you're not like me, where you're like, fuck it, I'm retired from acting, but you still you still do act. Well, you have kind of taken a whole different direction in your career in the last couple of years.

And I want you to talk about it a little bit. Yes.

So I am still acting. I have a movie that's coming out on demand called I used to go here. That would be great if people would watch. So by the time this airs, I used to go here. Has come out. Yes. And you've watched it and you've watched it. But also you're going to watch it again tonight. Yes.

Again, just to support. What's it about? Who's in it? OK, great. Yes.

My movie is about a character named Kate who is publishing her first novel and thinks that she's about to embark on this huge press tour, this huge book tour. And it's going to be a raging success. And then it gets bad reviews and the publishers cancel everything. She was engaged. She's broken up with her fiance. And so she's in this moment or nothing is going right. And so the only offer she has is to go back to her alma mater and give a talk.

And so she goes back and all the students and the faculty are treating her like she's this big deal, she's this huge success, and she feels like a loser. But she's also really enjoying that. And so she sort of befriends all the kids who lived in the house she used to live in in college and is sort of regressing, but also like finding that they're really cool and exciting and young. And she's so she's sort of having this moment of like, do I start teaching at this college and and are my true new friends all these like college students?

So she's sort of having a crisis. But Jemaine Clement, who's hilarious, plays that her old professor who invites her back and to Mark so I think is amazing writer director, in addition to be an actress, is one of the students for good luck, Josh Wiggins. There's so many great people in the movie. Oh, that's that's amazing.

That sounds amazing. Me, I did a talk at Loyola Marymount University when my book came out.

It was cool experience like this where they'll tell you you are a huge success. So you're not like Facebook and you are on a massive book tour.

So it was it was it kind of wasn't a massive book tour just because we were also like prepping busy tonight at the same time. So I really only could go to a few places, but going back to Elmo was good. But I didn't graduate from there. I left school.

Oh, really? And they won't put you on the wall of fame. They're. I'm not on the wall of fame because I graduate. Yeah, they should just give you a degree, like they should just give it to you. I actually asked what you guys I asked the new dean of whatever the fine arts. Alemu is really cool and like, awesome dude. And when I was there giving the talk, that's the I swear to God, one of the only reasons why I wanted to do it was to ask him if he would just give me an honorary degree, like, I don't know, I just would like to be able to say that I have one from maybe you can give you maybe you can find it online.

Yeah. This semester.

Gillion, you graduated from Juilliard, though.

Yeah, barely. Yes, I was um. Well, I was on probation so they, they could have kicked me out at the end of my sophomore year, but they chose to not. So yes. What were you on probation for. Acting not up to their standards. My acting was not good enough. Oh.

I didn't know if you meant acting like on the stage was not up to standard or the way you were acting at the school was like, oh, they they they thought I was too passive.

And I don't know how. I mean, I grew up doing theater as a kid. And so as a kid, if you follow directions, you show up on time. You're just like they give you a note and you take it, you get really rewarded. And so I that was sort of my expectations of what a being an actor was. And when I got there that I know you're supposed to have opinions and make choices. I thought I was being good.

I thought I was being a good student by I just wait for you to tell me what to do and then I do it to the best of my ability so that I think what they are trying to, like, get me to do more of what's in the background there.

So my my character publishes this book and she hates the cover. So I decided to put it in the background for the paper.

And I said, yeah, it's like you hold it up. She won't stop talking about how much she hates the cover of her past and terrible it's a terrible like Summer Beach read cover that you would get. That's really fun.

It's like, well, because people if they can't see it, it's two hands holding, like how every company now has like a black hand and a white hand holding each other for all their copy of my daughter's school stuff on the front of a friend of a lighthouse.

Yeah. And it's like, yeah, it's like a starfish and a shell.

It's it's like a real Nicholas Sparks vibe, like you're in North Carolina holding hands with the ghost with a very really chick lit fund.

No, I have talked to friends who are authors and they said that this is very relatable to them. Is it super relatable? It's very relatable. So, Gillion, let's get back to your career pivot. So we're all going to watch this movie because although it sounds like the movie is kind of about a pivot to, like, exactly. A woman at a crossroads and trying to figure out what her next steps are, I'm looking forward to watching.

I know it sounds like I look forward to, like, two things. And now I have three and you're and you are legit. One of my favorite actors.

I love watching you. I love to be there because it was so fun. It was so fun. It was it was such a fun movie. I like anything. We're like ladies go to like a different country and like, ball out of control. It's I always like shitty dudes going. It's like nobody wants to see you in pain. I want to cool ladies. It's always funny to me when Jillian plays a character that is drunk or on drugs because she does not partake in either of those things.

So I'm like, this is a it's a it's a fantastic acting. You do a good job sucking Juilliard.

Yeah, I do a lot of crowd sourcing for all of that. And I am very up front on set of like I, I've never been drunk, I've never done drugs. So tell me if it doesn't look real. So I try to think I remember I had to play hungover on community and and I just was asking everyone on set what it's like a flu or a flu.

It's like having the flu. Yeah. OK, wait, so I love you as an actor. I can't wait to see that movie. Talk to us about your career, pivot and like how it all came to be. It's interesting. Yeah. And what it is so so what it is. So what it is, is the last few years I've been directing documentaries and I've also been interviewing a lot of people for print publications. And so I guess what I started to do was when I would meet people like Cindy, who used to be the editor in chief of Glamour, I would go I was going to all these glamour events like Busi.

I'm sure you and I were many of them. And I just started saying, like, hey, can we have breakfast or can we have a meeting? And then I was she said, if there's ever anyone that you really want to talk. Or interview pitch us it, and so they started saying, yes, so I got to interview a lot of people for glamour.

I've got to interview the person or something. Yes. It's been so exciting. And I'm trying to remember now what it was. But I've interviewed an astronaut.

I interviewed this woman who was like started working in computers in the nineteen fifties. I got to interview Marlo Thomas and. Wow. And and a lot of it was just like I started talking about free to be you and me one day, which I don't know if any of you listened that I was just going to say I'm free to be you and me was like my favorite thing ever when I was a kid ever.

Yes, I know it all by heart still. Yeah. And when one of my first acting classes ever, we did a sketch from Free to be you and Me, Me to the baby.

The boy meets girl. Yeah, me too. Same.

OK, so I just started talking about it with a friend and I was like it was amazing. It was amazing. This was all her idea. She put this all together. She got all of these amazing performers and writers to to do this. And so I was like, I don't think she gets enough credit for that. And so I just emailed Glamour, the editors and said, I want to interview Marlo Thomas. And they said, OK.

And then I got on the phone with her to interview.

And she's like, Honey, why do you want to talk to me? Like it was so random to her? Because she also does. I mean, her father started St. Jude's Hospital, and so she and her family have raised I think I'm not overstating billions of dollars for this hospital. And so I think she assumed I wanted to talk to her about St. Jude's. And I was like, yes, this is incredible. Totally admire you for this, but I want to talk to you about free to be you and me.

And I think it's amazing. So I've been sort of doing that.

Like Hilary Mantel is one of my favorite authors. She wrote the Wolf Hall novels. And so when I when I heard that the third Wolf Hall novel was coming out, I, I emailed Glamour and said, could I ever talk to her? And I never thought she would agree to it. She's a very fancy award winning author and she said yes. And so then I got for me this was huge.

I got an advance copy of the third novel.

I got to read it and I was guarding it.

It was invaluable treasure and like it was the finale of Game of Thrones is what you are treating it like.

Yeah. Yeah. And and so then I got to speak to her on the phone and once again, I was so excited I started crying much like the girl at the end of the year presentation to my English teacher. I started crying and I just hope the phone connection was poor enough that Hilary Mantel couldn't tell I was crying. So I guess it's like I've always been a curious person who gets really into things. And normally I just like for people at dinner parties talking about them.

You never bothered me. I'm thank you. Yeah. So I guess my pivot has been rather than just sort of like getting privately obsessed with it and talking to about it with friends and family, I've been trying to find ways to like be able to do it, whether it's doing a documentary or interviewing somebody and I guess sharing it more with the world.

But I feel it also, though, I feel like you're really into women and stem. I feel like you want to get a lot you want to get. And I feel like you want to give women credit for things that historically speaking, is that what is that? I mean, I know what that is, but like to speak to that. Well, so the first documentary I did was about this woman named Grace Hopper, who accidentally started working on computers during World War Two because she was a mathematics professor who was desperate to join the Navy.

They had a volunteer women's it was called waves. And so it was a way that women could serve in the Navy during World War Two because previously women had not been allowed. And so initially they told her that she was too old. She was like thirty three. They tried to tell her that she was underweight. Like there were all these excuses they kept trying to give her why she couldn't join the Navy and she just kept insisting until finally they said, fine, we'll let you in.

And because she was a mathematics professor, they sent her to Harvard. And there was this man who was working on a secret computer, one of the first computers, you know, this is in the nineteen forties. And so they just sort of put her in a room with this computer and said write a manual about this. And she didn't know what it was, she didn't know how it worked. And so by the end of the war, she was probably one of the leading computer experts in the country because she had all this experience.

But the Navy would not let her stay in the Navy. They sort of kicked all the women out at the end of the war. They didn't continue the ways program. And Harvard wouldn't have women as professors. So she couldn't stay at Harvard and so she didn't know what to do, but it was kind of the beginning of the computer industry. And so these other two men who had also worked on a different secret computer during the war hired her.

And so she became part of the earliest days of the computing industry. And what I learned from working on this documentary was that there was actually a whole group of women who worked on computers in the nineteen forties and fifties. And later the numbers went really down. But early on, computer programming was considered, quote, women's work, unquote, like, like secretaries almost or something.

Right. A lot of coding. Yeah.

Because it was a computer used to be a description of a human, it was a person who did computations and so women were considered good at detailed work and so they were considered good computers. And so there's kind of this natural shift from by hand computations into working on these early computers, which required a lot of writing out computations. And so, you know, now the numbers are are bad actually, I think peaked in the nineteen eighties and it's been on the decline since then for the number of women in STEM in computing.

And so working on this I realized, oh, it's not about trying to get women into this field for the first time. It's about trying to get back to where they were. And also there were these women at the University of Pennsylvania who worked on a separate secret computer during the war. And when that when the computer is finally made public, they had this big press day and all these reporters were there. They're taking these photos. People are writing articles.

And the women were demonstrating how the computer functioned because they had program this computer called ENIAC. But when all the press coverage came out, none of the women were accredited by name. None of them were credited as programmers. And so they were sort of immediately lost from the history of this computer. And it wasn't until this woman, who I actually interviewed for my documentary saw this picture of these women and started asking questions about who they were that she was able to find.

Thankfully, they were all still alive when she did her project and she interviewed all of them and sort of restored them to the history as far as computer programmers, which is what they were, because previously people had been like, oh, they were essentially room models like models at a car show. And so burn it all down. Yeah. So that was kind of, I guess, the beginning for me. So, yes. And STEM, I've I've tried to read a lot about the early history of women in Hollywood.

There were actually between nineteen eleven and nineteen twenty two. Half of the produced scripts were written by women. Yes. Yeah. Because it's kind of similarly in the early silent film era before Hollywood was really an established industry, people would write scenarios for silent films and and mail them in to studios and then you would get a check in the mail. So it was considered kind of freelance work that you could do from home. So because of that, women were writing scripts and getting paid for them.

It's really interesting.

It's almost like like women are always used as test balloons to see, like, is this going to be like a thing like our screenplay is going to be on the in the film and then we're going to see who is cooking food.

Going to be a thing. OK, it is. All right. Yeah. Let's buy it. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love. Are you always like follow your curiosity. I feel like so many times women are just like told to be like OK, well that's a cute little hobby or like some bullshit like that. But you're like, I'm going to give every woman who was a computer fucking credit. And I'm like, yes, because every woman had something stolen from them and every woman I know still to this day, Jillian, you're still acting.

But what was like the moment? Was there an inciting incident where you went from sort of thinking about making documentaries and interviewing people to like a tipping point where you were like, oh, shit, I'm doing this? Like, how did that happen?

I think it was kind of this gradual thing of honestly feeling depressed and feeling. You know, when I when I heard the premise of this podcast, I was really trying to think about, like, what what pushed me to do things or why I started pursuing other things. And I think, you know, I think I had kind of I have constant kind of low grade depression. And I think that there's something about being an actor where you're waiting to be cast a lot of the time.

And, you know, for all the jobs that I have gotten and I'm very lucky because I work as an actor and I know that puts me in a small percentage of actors that I made a living acting. You still are waiting to be told, yes, and so I think I wanted to find a way to start feeling a little bit more proactive and probably also encouragement from Chris, my boyfriend, who I think I don't know if you've all met, but yes, I think Chris also has really encouraged me as well to pursue whatever I'm interested in.

So you said you were depressed. Can you talk a little bit about. Have you had a change in that level of depression since you've been.

I do feel excitement when I'm doing these new things, whether it's directing or interviewing someone. I feel that was kind of like first day of school nerves, which are kind of exciting. And I don't know how you feel busy, but I don't feel like really scared like that as an actor anymore, unless something specifically challenging about the scene, like I'm very bad at stunts. Like if there is like if I have to do anything like physical in that way, I feel that kind of like jolt of excitement.

And you're like, yeah. And I and certainly when I first started acting, everything was new to me. I didn't really understand how the process of film and TV worked at all. So I was constantly trying to figure it out. And I always felt like I was doing the wrong thing or standing in the wrong place, or I wasn't in my I didn't know what it meant, that I wasn't in my light or all these things. So it was like I was constantly grappling with that.

And I think the beauty of being on a television show that goes for six seasons is that by the by the end of it, you feel much more comfortable and you don't kind of feel that like those kind of excitement, nerves on the day to day. I mean, I was very lucky that community was such a good show. So we get very excited about the episodes that we were doing. And it was like, this is really funny. I can't believe they're letting us do this.

I mean, I lucked out so hard with that show that, like, we were your first show. Yes. I was like we were like reinventing what the television show was every episode. That was really exciting. But I think I think it's fun to feel like nervous in that way.

OK, so there's a ton of rejection in acting and you're just waiting for a yes. Have you faced rejection in your pivot to documentaries and to journalism, I guess, and does it feel the same?

It doesn't sting as hard, I think, because it feels like, you know, I don't claim to be the most experienced director and I'm not a journalist, so I just kind of and maybe it feels less precious to me. I just sort of put it out there. And if it's. Yes, great. If it's a no, it doesn't it doesn't affect me as much.

And so I'd imagine getting notes or the same is similar. Like you're like, OK, that's a good note. Yeah.

I think you're also just so used to getting notes as an actor that I like. Yes. This is this is normal. This is what happens. And I've also been lucky to work with really great people that I think have sort of like helped me along. So I've never felt like, you know, I couldn't also ask for help.

So many actors, I think, choose or try to write, write things for themselves to star in. That is not what interested you. That's not the pivot you wanted to take. No. And what why was that not a direction you wanted to go? I'm just curious.

I'm not very savvy.

I don't think I guess I'm not I'm not very good at self promotion.

Well, you're not a fame driven person. That's why I like you. That's why we're friends.

Yeah, I know the one the one scripted thing. I directed a short film that was scripted and I didn't cast myself in it. And I don't know. I also I've worked with enough writer director stars to see firsthand just how difficult that is, you know, and so I think I wanted to make it as easy for myself as possible when I'm on set directing that I'm not also performing in it because I've just seen how how much juggling you have to do at all moments.

So, yeah. I. It never occurred to me to write something for myself. I mean, but I do think that it's well, I actually think that in a way, what you did intuitively.

Is a thing that fulfills you more like you you get acting jobs, right, and you enjoy and you take the ones that you're interested in and the characters interest you, but you also are a person that has the innate curiosity about things.

Yeah, I think I've always had kind of an insecurity about it, too, because I didn't go to an academic college and I don't have any kind of academic background. So I've really had to push myself to do it too, because I didn't feel like I was smart enough or had the right education to do it.

Every woman actor I know goes through this and logit, not one of the men do. Absolutely.

Every woman, not even just actor, every woman I know has it's not even overprepared. It's like you're like before I do this job, I will know everything and everything I've ever met is like, oh no should about that job. But I take it.

Yeah, like I know I don't know shit about that job, but I know I can do it because why couldn't I do it. I can do everything. It's crazy.

What did you do to prepare for a documentary directing.

Well you know I, I, I, I tried to read as many books as I could because I was also faced with this thing where I'm not a STEM person. I don't know anything about computers. And not only do I not know anything about computers, I really don't know anything about computers. From the nineteen fifties, these women were working on computers the size of rooms, you know. So I talk to historians, I read histories, I read two separate biographies of her and I just kept reading as much as I could.

I I also did a there's a new series about Marvel Comics. It's going to be on Disney Plus this year. And I directed one of the episodes of that and it's so cool. But once again, I knew nothing about comics, but it was the same producers as the Grace Hopper documentary. So I had to start reading comics. And so I just tried to read as many comics as I could. I read a history, I read a history of Marvel Comics as a company and just try to like.

Another thing is I try and if the person I'm interviewing has been interviewed before, I try to read and listen to as my interviews with them as possible, because you also sort of hear the questions they get asked all the time. You can tell sometimes the questions are sick of getting asked and then you can sort of see like where it is that people aren't asking them.

So Gillion, what is next? What are you working on? You're working on it. You're cutting something right now, aren't you? A documentary? Yes.

That I don't think I can say yet what it is, but I'm working on. Yes, I we recorded. I do I do a scripted podcast called Blood Ties. So we recorded the second season from home that's now out so people can listen to that. I've been doing voiceover for animation jobs from home. I haven't interviewed anyone since Hilary Mantel, so I should try and think of who is the next person. I'm going to get obsessed. I really see.

I really wanted to interview Olivia de Havilland, but she just died. So that had been my goal because I was I was fascinated not only by her as an actress, but she also she changed California labor laws. She sued, I think it was Warner Brothers. And so she changed what actor contracts were because they used to have these clauses where if you were signed for, say, like a five year deal and they offered you films that you didn't want to act in, if you declined them, they kept adding time to your contract.

So it wasn't by the calendar year. I was by the number of films you did film that you did that?

Yeah, I think I'm getting that right. It might be incorrect, but I think that's essentially what it was. And she challenged it and she sued them and she won. So I really wanted to talk to her about that. So she's great. Yes, I have I have a question for you.

Yes. I've been really thinking about you over quarantine, actually has your baking coming. Oh, my God.

The baking has come to a grinding halt.

I have learned how to make a French omelet, and that is the only thing I have done.

I, I had some early motivation to try and bake and it all dissipated because do you mind my saying, like on Instagram, you always share your baking successes and failures?

I'd say failures.

I managed to make a apple crumble, that I somehow liquefied the center and it was like apple sauce encased in dough. How did. You do that. Great question. I also made waffles that were so disgusting, apparently, that Chris was like choking them down.

I can teach you how to make waffles easily. No, it's so easy if my mom can make that. Barbara Phillips, I'm so sorry that I'm going to say this right now, but my mom is not a person who's, you know, into cooking.

And she and those waffles are so good. Like, cooking is improvisational. I feel like it's like it's doing improv and baking is science. It is making true is it can really understand. Is a big baker cook. Yeah. Oh my God.

She until she and there has been a covid baker that like that journey has really taken off. I'm not just any pathetic Sacto now. So here's the thing. I don't like sour dough enough to make so many of them. People are like I have four loaves of salad, I'm like I like a soft sweet like I grew up in the south. Give me like a golden corral, you know, like I want that dirty dirty to two teaspoons of sugar parol kind of bread.

So like that's what I've been making, I've been making like very soft Japanese and milk buns. That's what I'm doing. I don't want that hard bread.

So, Jillian, you've given up on baking, but how is your sneaker habit going and are you able to support it?

She has a good sneaker game. You good? Yeah.

So I, I have a bunion. And so the sneaker habit really kind of faded off once the podiatrist told me that I really need to be wearing orthotics all the time. So he informed me that I needed to wear orthotics. And so now I just primarily wear dance clogs around the house because they are orthotic shoes. Those are cute. Yeah, he wanted me to wear Merrills. That was his patch and that was his pick. Yeah. I was like, they're so, so hard to look at.

That's it. That's a terrible diagnosis for the worse. Yeah. So yeah.

So that is also something where I as an actress now I just up front, I'm like I have a banana peel. Also when you just tell costume designers and directors up front, I have a bunion, I can't wear those shoes, it's pretty hard to come back with. You must and busy knows how infrequently your shoes are actually on camera as an actress.

But my shoes I'm such a person. Wear my shoes, inform my character. I have like a whole physical process for acting guys. Don't even fuckin start with me, Casey, as your laugh and you don't even know me as an actor. But like my I'm also laughing at Gillian's brand being like I have a bunion, by the way, like every every actor has like some diva thing.

And Gilliams is like, by the way, just FYI, I have a but you have like another thing is I've this is who is going to care about this. But most mascaras run on me like they insta. Me too. Me too. So I, I, I try to proactively tell them this is the one mascara that works Kevin on and, and sometimes people just don't want to believe me. And so the first day they will not have gotten it.

And they're just by the end of the day they're like, oh you weren't kidding because I don't have that.

I mean you get out. So here's what my question is for you, Jillian. I think you're a wonderful writer.

Are you interested in doing, like, a biography of someone? Are you interested in or like is there a name Lamar biography?

Yeah, we're very obsessed with Hedy Lamarr. I feel like people have now discovered her STEM connection and her connection to that. The origins of Bluetooth technology.

Have you thought about doing a book like based on like sort of putting together all of these things that you've been, like, researching and working on?

Once again? The first instinct is I'm not qualified to do that.

I mean, that's insane. It's so fucking crazy. It would be such a good book to you. You could just be like the women that STEM Forgot by Gillian Jacobs or whatever.

I tried to do that a few years ago. And it's it's I found it very hard to do. But yeah, I have a whole list of people.

What did you try to do a few years ago that was hard to do?

More documentaries and Grace Hopper one. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. So I have.

And what was the biggest thing holding you back from that.

Getting people to pay for it.

Right. And when you would go. Because documentaries are made all the time. Right, like, I mean, you would go to these companies and you would say, like, I want to make these female focused, tell these female these stories of women who were erased from the picture of these achievements and stem.

What would be the response? But can't you just have one that's about a man that really yeah, yeah, no, you can't. And I was like, oh, that's so that's the whole identity of the thing, you know. Yeah, I you know, I'll try again. I that must have been a fucking bummer. It was, it was because I felt like when people did see the one about Grace Hopper, they got so excited because it really was even though she's the most famous woman in that in within the STEM world, she still isn't even like this was a crazy thing to me.

Was there is a there's a celebration of women computing that's named after her. It's called the Grace Hopper Celebration. And so I went to go film it and I thought, oh, I'll just I'll be able to tell her story by just going up and interviewing women who are at this conference and they'll know about her. And I can sort of have this chorus of voices. No one there really knew anything about her, and they're at a celebration named after her.

And and so that was shocking to me, that even there within this community, still no one really knew anything about her.

Well, we are in the middle of a revolution and a reckoning. And I bet you now is a good time for those people who said, no, I'm sorry.

I also I'm just going to throw this out there. I feel like I'm it's really interesting in this in this time, I haven't been really into watching, like, narrative shows. I mean, I watched I've watched a couple, like some really stand out fucking amazing things. But mostly I've been watching documentaries. Yep. And like I said, I'm really interested in real people's stories of whatever.

Let's do it, Gilliard. Do it because I think that that series should be made like I want to watch it. I think it's important. Like I think it's and it's fucking bullshit that two years ago you were shot down after your work speaks for itself. That documentary was so good and like, fuck these motherfuckers, we're going to we're going to get it done. Gillion, thank you so much.

It was so nice to see you. It's so great to see all of you. Thank you. Good to see you again. Tell Chris I say hi and let's talk next week, ok? OK, bye bye.

A function of beauty, dot com, is that a good song for them? It's nice that you voluntarily write jingles for I think it's nice.

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So here's the deal. We talk about our therapists, A.A. and I have discussed it. Casey last week was like and my therapist Frazier reruns, which is funny, but also maybe maybe not the best therapist, Frasier Crane. Yeah, I'm going to agree. I'm going to agree. OK, so but here's the deal. We're so excited to tell you about talk space. It's online therapy. It lets you connect with a licensed therapist for a fraction of the price of in-person therapy.

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Wow guys, I love her. I don't even know who's typing. I can hear someone typing that you stand here. I think you always do it all the time. And I'm like, stop returning the emails. Click, click, click, click, click of somebody that I'm doing this right now. So imagine if she was eating a salad.

You know what? Crazy rude. Also, are we pitching's the car this week? I do love this. OK, how much I love Gillian Jacobs, I didn't even like Blackout when she was talking about her Bunyon like just like that's how endearing I find Gillian Jacobs. She talked at length about having a bunion. And I didn't pitch a hissy fit right now. And I can't even talk about my dead toenail without you wanting to turn the ear.

That's why I had multiple group chats, because I'm very invested. Any time I turn that off, I am so intrigued. Please let me know how it's going. I'm trying to find a new laser foot guy here in New York or woman person I used guy in a generic no gender way. I'm trying to find a laser toe person here in New York. So if you've got a good one, hit me up. Slide into those DMS, please, or just email me.

Busy doing her best at Gmail dot com with your recommendations for the laser toe fungus person that you like in New York City.

All right, let's get to a letter, dear. Busy a..

And Casey, have I got a question for you, even though I don't know you and will likely never meet you? I don't know. Don't be so sure about that. You feel like my community. I loved watching you on your show was my special treat for myself in rare moments when I found myself alone in my house without my husband or toddler. And now your podcast is one of my friends in these strange covid and of world times. I find myself in something of an unwilling pivot.

Right now I'm a teacher, a high school English teacher, to be precise. I love a teacher, guys. I'm just going to that's me interjecting. I've always prided myself on building a little world in my classroom, a community of people who could talk about difficult things together, laugh really hard together and feel at home together. That's why English teachers are the best. I didn't always succeed in that, but I worked hard at it. Now, in covid times, I'm teaching a bizarre hybrid classroom with half of my students at home and looking at me through the screen and half of the kids in rooms wearing masks and sitting behind plastic barriers, separated from me and from each other by six feet.

The most important thing to me is that kids feel some kind of community in my room, but half of them aren't even in the room. They struggle to talk to each other through the slow wi fi and the chrome books. I know that story well with my daughter and her school and they can't see my whole face and it's hard to hear each other. It's the worst. You ladies make me feel like I'm a part of your community, even though I can't see you so.

What advice can you share for teachers like me and other people whose jobs have changed so that they're almost unrecognizable on keeping the heart of our jobs going? Thank you. I am a. And first of all, thank you, thank you and thank you. You're working so hard, I'm going to I'm going to start because I'm going to say that, like one thing, I think that's a theme for all of us. But it's so easy to forget when you're talking about yourself is that this has never happened before.

No one's ever done this. No one's ever attempted this. You might as well be doing a mission to Mars, you know what I mean?

So every day on your feet as you're moving, you're like trying to ride a bike and put pants on at the same time. This is the first time anyone's doing this, right? So, like.

Just, you know, huge applause to you, for it sounds like you really care about it and like you really want to be good at a thing that I'm not sure we even know what being good at it means yet, like you're inventing it. And so just, you know, your kids are so lucky to have you as a teacher. And I think that's a pretty big deal. So maybe you're connecting with them more already than you even realize.

Um, I mean, you nailed it. One thing that I'll say is that my English teacher growing up, Miss Henley, was like so important to me. A lot of us would eat lunch in her room. And I don't know if this is like a weird suggestion, but like if there is like once a week where your resume for your lunch, you just leave it open. And if kids want to eat lunch with you, I think that's a fun way for you to kind of get the feel of a classroom experience without having to worry about it.

Always being about work. That was always something that I would do. That was always something that really made me feel good, especially my senior year when I knew I wouldn't be eating lunch with her anymore. So, like, I think that is a fun thing. Another thing I know that teachers are always doing so much work, but like if there is an opportunity for you to make a little video of maybe what's happening during the week, that way when things come kind of undone or when why wife not working?

Because we don't provide Wi-Fi for everybody in every community. So the kids could just be like, I'm going to watch that video. And obviously every kid is not going to watch it. Every kid is not going to eat lunch with you. But I think it will make you feel better.

And there's always one kid who literally will be like, oh, thank God, I got I got Nissan's video or I'm going out today. And and unlike when you're in actual high school, people won't even know that they're in there. If they're worried about being, like, considered a nerd, you'll just be like, it's open. And they could be like, oh, I forgot it was open. And then you play it off really cool. I love that.

That's like such a great, great idea, I used to go with my drama teacher a lot. Yeah, yeah, I love that.

My English teacher was also my drama teacher in high school, Miss Melero Shallow. And she's a super important figure in my life as well.

So I love L.A. what Miss Melanie Gallo would do for me and for anyone else I know now, I thought it was just for me at the time, is she would you know, she'd be walking up and down the road during class and just put a book on the corner of your desk.

And I the first time she did that, I said, oh, is this like do I I have to do a report on this? And she was like, no, no. I just finished reading it. And I was thinking of you and I was reading it. I thought, oh, Casey would love this book. So I just brought it to pass along to you. And that was the first time I was like felt like a person, you know what I mean?

Like somebody with my own identity that a grown up saw and to be thought of, to think that like a grown up was thinking of you when they were doing something for pleasure on their own time and to like, pass it along to you.

Oh, my God. And this crying, you take it when you cry.

I love Miss Melanie. So, yeah, I love McKinley a lot. She was very she was great. I felt really seen and heard from that English teacher.

And like, I also felt like smart because I could read a book and then have an opinion about it and she would respect it. But also, like, it's very rare for you to, like, eat lunch with the grown up and not feel like shit.

So I just I have to say also miss and also like we have your email, I like the idea that Casey just had.

But I also know how difficult it is with budgets and things now for teachers and that you have to provide so much for students.

So like, let's reach out to Miss Anne and see if she has an Amazon wish list or something. Maybe we can. Yeah, yeah.

I was going to do some version of a combo of that, which was like I always loved reading books that were not required for school and like Book Club, I always wanted to be in a book club. But like, those don't really exist for high school students.

And one time I tried to join the one at Brentano's and it was just like a bunch of middle aged women and me like reading The Girl with the Pearl Earring, you know, and like so I just feel like I feel like that's a cool thing to like you could to to cultivate like a sense of community.

Like everybody loves clubs, like everybody wants to belong to a club, you know. So it could be like lunchtime book club. We talk about books or the show that you recently binge watched or, you know, whatever, like you guys like it could be up to the kids, like what kind of thing that you discuss? Because also, like, if you're talking about, like TV shows, even like breaking down story structure and television shows and movies and like thematics of shows and things like, that's all English right now to me.

And so, like, it's still there's there's a way to engage on that level.

Maybe it's like the lunch time. I don't know, maybe there's a way to do it all. To do it all. Let's do it all for you.

Well, this morning, we love you. And of course, you know, as my favorite teacher from fourth grade, fifth grade senior year and also Mrs. Howard, I ate lunch and Mrs. Howard's drama room in middle school after I dislocated my knee and I was a pariah and. All right, guys, we love you. You're all doing your best. We're going to be back next Wednesday. Please email us. Busy doing her best at Gmail dot com for advice or thoughts or feelings.

Follow us on Instagram at BP is doing her best. Make sure you tell your friends to subscribe and and download the pod. We love you.

So tell your friends I love them and tell your friends you love them. It's important to tell people you love them. It really is.

And if you're not emotional place to do that, give them a book.

I was just thinking about you, Bill. Here's a book, guys. That's it. We love you so much. Talk to you side by.