Transcribe your podcast
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This episode of Busy Phillips is doing her best was recorded on Sunday prior to the egregious confirmation of Amy CONI Barrett.

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But trust us, we're fucking mad and we're really sad about it.

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Anyway, enjoy. Hi, guys. Hi, guys. Welcome to you fellows is doing her best I mean, so far not we're not all doing great. I'm just going to say it. I had to just go check Shinjiro. You don't know this. We have done early to do to record some AdCenter pop on.

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Said one thing wasn't recording and computer froze.

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Hey there. I am trying to. Yeah, the internet was not having it.

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It wasn't the internet was like we got to start over all but I had to, I had to go change my pants because my jeans were too tight in my crotch.

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Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, oh you have standing pants. I have, I have pants that like when I lived in New York, like I'd be like, oh, I'm going to go to this bar, I'm going to be standing the whole time. Cool. But then there's like pants like and you go to the movies, you're like, I can sit for three hours and you know, this is like an instant U-turn.

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Yeah. Yeah. Like an instant there. Mary Yeah. Slash possibly yeast infection. I don't know what would have happened if I had done this whole podcast in those jeans. Yeah.

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I don't change my out and I first started dating, you know, we were very young young people in college and there was a day where we were supposed to go somewhere and he was like, I don't know if I can go. I'm feeling really bad. And I was like, really? And he was like, yeah, I like something with my stomach is wrong. And like, I don't know if I should, like, go to the doctor.

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And he was just like really like looked alarmed. So I was like, listen, let's get you back to your dorm room, get you in your pajamas, lay down for a few minutes. If you don't feel better, then we'll go to the doctor.

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So we go to his dorm room and we were already laughing like does his pants. And then he's like, oh, I feel better. And I was like, your pants were too tight. And I was like, Yeah, yes. And I was like, You never felt the feeling of having too tight pants. You couldn't you thought it was like a disease. Oh, my God.

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And you're like I mean, I guess I guess I never had to type.

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And he thought he was having some sort of a gallbladder attack and he just his jeans had been put in the dryer.

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Yeah.

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You guys probably have had less experience than your girl in really tight clothing for like events and stuff. Oh yeah.

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Cause if you don't have to subject yourself to it, I would hope that most people don't subject themselves to it. Yes.

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I don't want to use like a brand name because like shapewear or shapewear, you know. Yeah.

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Like, it truly can just give you such intense gas or like. Yeah.

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When I worked at Bravo, there are instances of housewives almost passing out from really shape, shape where it's really hot, it's hot.

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And sometimes when they're dressing you for events, they have you double up. And that's just.

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Yeah, they double up. Yeah, I have had to wear it because like by the time I started going to any events I had, like, switched to wearing suits like right when I was when I was touring. So probably like twenty sixteen when I, when I tore it I wore just like beads all the time.

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And because it was just like so easy to get dressed in a parking lot in a little white dress and a little black dress, just zip up the back and you're like ready to go. And then I like switch to suits when I got like a like a resident like stage, like I was doing like eight shows a week.

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And I was like, I don't wear a suit, I don't want that dress. And I were the suit and I was like, damn man. Just walking around comfortable all the time. Just all the time. Just like just see if any of you comfortable and like, look, I, I don't know if I've ever really talked about this.

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Like I obviously have famously been Michelle Williams date for the last, I would say.

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Not nine, 10 years that she's been nominated for Academy Awards and Golden Globes and Independent Spirit Awards and all that stuff for her, all of her incredible work, and it started with Brokeback, the year of Brokeback Mountain.

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And it's so much fun. And I love hanging out with my best friend.

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But one thing that I don't think she ever has really thought about, not for any reason, it's her night, it's her thing.

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Whatever is that like when you're nominated for an award or you're presenting the studio that you work for, pays for your stylist and your hair and your makeup and like your nails and all of the stuff, right?

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Yeah. When I go as Michelle's guest. I pay for it, so it is like and it's like a lot, you know what I mean? Yes, it's like a big sort of thing. Yeah, it's a big deal.

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And it's so much to like it's so much time and energy and fittings and getting like Carlo while I choose my stylist, like getting people to, you know, make the dress if it's that or whatever it is.

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And it's like a real a lot of stuff goes into it is my point.

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And I was asked if I wanted to go to I can't remember what it was something one award show recently, like in the recent past, prie covid but recent past.

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But like Michelle wasn't going, it would just be like, do you want to go to this thing? And I was like, are you kidding? No, I know I have nothing to do. No, I don't want to like. So when you see someone who's there, who's not nominated or presenting like a guest of somebody or they're there just to be there for whatever reason, like there is that's on them, that's my like being a bridesmaid on steroids.

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It's like, oh my God, that's exactly what it's like. It's like being a bridesmaid on steroids, which, by the way, I don't I don't love being a bridesmaid. I love like I never loved it the last time I was a maid of honor a couple of years ago.

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And it was pretty lit because she was like, just you just pick it, pick the dress for my wedding.

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I just let the the bridesmaids pick whatever dress they wanted because I didn't want them to feel uncomfortable with.

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Also on that note, happy anniversary yesterday.

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Happy anniversary. Oh, thank you. Forty seven years married. Twenty two years married.

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My lucky number this, this, this anniversary is good for me to be here. Be here for you. My marriage is online. Really cute. And the thing that your husband wrote about you is, was very sweet.

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And I like basically shout out to your oh he's he's the best guy.

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He just doesn't know when his panty really is. And, you know, I do not like men. Yeah. I guess I didn't have bridesmaids at my wedding.

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Oh yeah. You were surprised.

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But I Emily, Bebe and Michelle and my sister who all were in on it, decided that they would call themselves secret bridesmaids.

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They're like, I mean, if you were going to have bridesmaids, we would be them, right?

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Of course, I but interior, I have to tell my mom I really like when my best friends from high school came and got married a long, long time ago.

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And she just had me and our other BFF, Christine, Chrissy, Chrissy on Instagram, who's like, by the way, our number one fan of those. So, yeah, I know she's listening to this and probably real excited right now, but I was about to say what I'm about to reveal. So Kate was like I think we were twenty five when Kate got married and she did the thing like she really wanted the thing, like she wanted the girls in the matching dresses and the whole thing.

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I'm like, OK.

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And they were these strapless bubblegum pink. Maybe they weren't bubblegum, they were pink, they were pink and pink and strapless.

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And there was like a little pink sorley thing. I don't know. And. Christine and I being like, I don't know, we were sort of both like twenty five year old assholes and we kind of just were like weren't paying attention and you had to get it. It was one of those things. You had to get the dress, like, fitted and the, you know, the whole thing. Yeah. I just like ordered a size eight or maybe I ordered a 10 and I like and I came and I just was like it was like a little bit weird, but I was like, man, it'll be fine.

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And I wore it and it was fine.

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Christy when she got hers, it was like four sizes too big. And so she did take it to a seamstress to get it taken in.

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But Chrissy has boobs like, you know, I'm not the same boobs as you, but she just has. She has. She's chisti she's. She's chested. Yes. Yes, yes. But and she also, like me, retains water and like premenstrual. Her boobs are like an entire. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Then she goes from a D to a double D when she's on her period. This is, this is my friend. So anyway, not a joke. She pulled the morning of the wedding. The wedding was like in the morning and like mid midday, 10 a.m. she pulls the dress out of the bag. We're getting dressed.

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We're done with our hair and makeup on her wedding gown.

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When I tell you there was a gap that was like two feet on her back, my God, we could not we didn't know what to do. We were all just like laughing and crying.

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And Christine was like, I'm so sorry. I did it to. I should have tried it on and I was like, it's fine, you couldn't have known that your boobs are going to go like this.

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And Kate was just like trying to breathe and might not pass out.

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Just put a cardigan on. Yeah, I think that we ended up giving her all just give her everybody shots. Yeah.

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I think we ended up like wrapping the shawl thing around.

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And there is just this one picture of us in the wedding where we both like, where she just looks so pained and I also look so mean. I like it also was like a crazy poor Kate and her wedding. I mean it's been a great honestly and really incredible relationship. They've been married for a really long time. I can't do the math, but a long, long time now. Two beautiful kids.

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She's got two wonderful step kids that are now grown ups anyway. So but like there was an unprecedented heat wave that day, too. And so it was like in early May, her wedding in Arizona. But normally it's not like crazy, crazy hot. Then it was like a hundred and ten degrees in the shade.

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But at the end of it, we were like all pouring sweat. My dress had like boob sweat marks, like it was like bubble gum, pink. And then just like, you know, how much I sweat. I've always been that way.

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Then just like just boob stripes. My dress was striped. Everybody was like fanning themselves about to pass out the things people go through. We made it right. We love to see it. It was just a day, just a day.

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And now it's been a beautiful a beautiful marriage.

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Well, I'm just saying that's why back to the original point, let people wear what they need to wear out and be comfortable and let them pick their dresses anyway, guys.

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So, yeah, I'm doing my best.

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Try not to get a Ukai Ipis Indira's Internets back. Your apartment looks totally done.

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The rugs down, we're pretty much done. It looks exactly what I'm doing. My best two things. Got a waffle maker bug and change the game baby. So damn, I'm feeling really good about that. Waffle maker made some ginger chocolate chip waffles this morning. What can I give you? I have the best waffle recipe ever. Can I give it to my grandma's waffle recipe? Hell yeah. Hell yeah. I love I love America. So I figure.

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And then I went to my breast reduction. We didn't update any update. Surgery's scheduled end of December. We go. Congratulations on being below my graduation.

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So happy for you.

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I shout out to my shout out to my credit card for making it happen. I get those points baby. Yeah. Yeah. Well, credit card that gives you point because the point. Yeah. I'm trying to get I'm trying to get a couple of free books out of this. My points. You deserve it. I am so happy for you to meet you. It was really good. I had to go to Beverly Hills. I wasn't.

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It was it's one of those things where it's like because breast reduction is considered plastic surgery, like it's a vibe in the office. A lot of gold. Yeah. It's like because my doctors are like, cool. Plus I don't know, it's like it feels like Nip Tuck but like without all the like murder and bad stuff. Right. It's just like cool guys who do plastic surgery. I don't want the guy my orthodontist from when I'm thirteen, I don't want him to do my breast surgery.

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He doesn't have the vibe. He he was an artist. Do you think that, like, if you're going to fuck with plastic surgery also, it's not a place to fuck around, right?

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Yeah. You don't want to don't don't go to the lady who's like, got a discount.

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I went there and that place in Beverly Hills when we parked our Honda Fit for literally I shoot you not for Range Rovers and and a porch pool. But I was like, this is where I want to get my surgery.

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I had to get my tonsils out when I was an adult. And my boss helped me out with it because I didn't.

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I was new to New York City and Dave Letterman, your boss, like me, he helped me figure out which hospital to get my tonsils out at.

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And it was, ah, super fancy hospital. Yeah. And I woke up. Letterman's not going to a cheap hospital surgeon was like, oh yeah.

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I was like, Jackie Kennedy is ear, nose and throat or whatever. And I was like, well she's passed away. And also I think you're not supposed to tell me, but maybe after they die, maybe. Maybe but after the reason I knew. A super fancy hospital is that I woke up in a recovery room and like one of those recovery chairs and every single other person had bandaged noses, they had all gotten rhinoplasty.

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I was the only Tomko there. Yeah, you don't mess around. Oh, my God, that's hilarious.

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If it's good enough for a rich white lady in Beverly Hills is good enough for me. That's why I love it.

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This I think that's the standard we should all hold ourselves to for.

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Oh, yes. Yeah. It's like, well, I don't know, you know, they have like a special they might not have it right now. I was trying to think if they maybe don't have it right now because of covid. But there is a special I know about this special wing in a hotel that's right near Cedars.

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It's like a special post op recovery wing for people getting plastic surgery.

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Mm. And they're getting major points for that Santero.

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I think it's a real, real expensive. And you can go there for however you like to recover from your plastic surgery so that people don't see you.

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But it's also like got nurses and stuff and they take care of you.

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Well these guys, they've been on an episode of The Doctors. If you really care, you can probably figure out who it was. I saw them and I was like, damn, they just doctors up in here. OK, what a flex. It's like I remember when I after I had had Berdy and I saw my OBGYN who delivered her on the Kardashians show. Yes. And then I was like, for a minute I was like, wait, do I.

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Is that like is he like a is that is that not a good thing? And then I was like, wait, they probably have the best dog, what I'm happy to share. But then it was very nerve racking, you know, with cricket because cricket and. North. Yes, that's right, north and north are the same age and they were do like basically the same week. And I was very nervous that I was going to get kicked to the curb and have some random doctor pull that baby out with me and not my doctor, but then Kim had North early.

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So I was like, oh, Dr. Crane helped me pull that baby right out. Dr. Frazier, you know, and he like if you if you've seen the episode, I think it's Courtney giving birth.

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Like she pulls the baby out. Yes. Yes. That's like his party trick. Everybody, I pulled Burgio. You give me your hands once he gets the shoulders out. That's the hardest part. That's where you have like if you're like me and you don't have any pain drugs that's like the white searing hot you can't see for like five seconds. You cannot see your eyes or you can't see anything because it's so fucking painful. And then the shoulders are out and then he's like, give me your hands, because you're kind of like, I don't know.

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I was kind of like sitting up anyway.

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I sort of like hunched. And so he he's like, give me your hands. And so I like, reached down and then he just like puts your hands under there and you have that simple moment.

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You have that simple moment.

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I can send them right out of your van.

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I honestly every OBGYN should do that. It is the greatest, most empowering feeling of all time to pull your baby out of your badge is saying shout out to everybody who's done it.

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Everybody who is going to ever do it, shout out.

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I don't know, I, I was that when I used to go to church regularly, I was like at this church and like all these like new moms we're talking and like I came downstairs and I caught the conversation of like, well, how much did you take? And then they just all went around and we're like talking about how bad their tears were. And they were like, yeah. And I was like, you know what? The Lord told me to go outside.

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Yeah. Like, ladies do like to talk about how their bodies have been changed or like what trauma they endured while giving birth.

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I have nothing to offer.

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And I also don't want to sit in here and just be like, yeah, tell me how you hurt so bad. My mom had me and this is like I really like as I'm older now, I really respected a lot in nineteen eighty seven, released Kristy and went to Tallahassee Memorial Hospital and had me and she said it hurts so bad she told them to tie her tubes. Then she was like, I'm not doing this again, do it. And they were like do you want to.

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And then like I really respect because now I know that like so many doctors, like, won't do it. They want to fucking husband or something.

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She was like, Oh girl, I love you so much. You came out and I knew one hundred percent. I never ever want to do that again.

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I was like, that was perfect. But she was I feel like I wrapped it up. She's like, we did. We nailed it. She's perfect out to advocating for yourself. She said, No, I know.

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I love the she was listened to and taken seriously, especially as a black woman in this country. She was. I know. I love that.

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Well, Casey, what are you doing your best at this week? I hope you really follow. So many people were reaching out and loving you and offering you support and also like saying like same same sex meeting.

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Yeah, yeah. A lot of people.

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And so I'm happy, although I felt like a little like, oh, I don't want to cry on the podcast. That's not my thing. But I guess apparently it is my thing. So, you know, it's not a I'm just not haven't been a crier in general historically for a really long time.

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And but then I remember you saying that busy that you used to not be a crier. And then I was suddenly. Yeah.

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And then therapy and. Yeah. Oh, I like the floodgates opened.

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Sometimes they like Yeah. Need to be open and then getting them shut is maybe impossibility. Impossible.

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Yeah. So, so everybody was so nice and so many people were like thanks for saying that because I feel the same way. And so I felt less alone. That made me feel so happy. What I'm about to try to do my best this week, offering an apology and addressing some allegations, which was last week, I told this story about a dog and a bunny and a family secret.

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And so, oh, no, I'm going to try to keep this as vague as possible.

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I reached out to someone who would know to say, hey, do you have a picture of that dog? And they were like, I don't know why. And I was like, I told that funny story. On the podcast, and they were like, how many of you listen to my podcast? And I was like, I don't know.

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And the point was they were like, I still know the victims like like the people.

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So hopefully they won't hear it because I feel guilty over that. So I'm like, you know what? That's a good point. It was not just my story to tell. So I want to say I'm sorry for telling a story.

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I promise to keep a secret that wasn't just my story to tell. But then here's where the story gets nuts.

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Our friend Ben Smith then called me and he was like, that story is an urban legend.

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It's in a book.

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And I was like, OK, no, but I just talked to the person.

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So he was like, I mean, yeah, I mean, I believe that you believe it happened, but I can like, you know, look it up. And I was like, no, but I did.

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You're not the only person that's ever happened to me. I'm like, I'm not saying anything because I, I, I'm so I'm trying to figure this out. It's so weird.

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And then I was like, you know, I'm like, OK, here's one of a few things happened. Like maybe it's like a similar story or this thing happened. And it is an urban legend, but it also really happened or like a portion of my family had like a shared hallucination, which in if that's the case, if that's the case, I retract my apology.

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But anyway, it happens because dogs dig up everything and everybody in the neighborhood are terrified of being responsible for killing other people's pets, like, oh, no, I'm Erica. Yeah, that's Erica.

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I can not remember the dead wing from last week. The dead don't happen. Dogs dig up everything dead. And where do people bury their fucking our pets? In there. In their yard yard.

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Then I was like, Yeah, but you guys know me. And I was like, I'm going to.

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Should I, like, reach back out to this and then I was like, no, you know, like, oh no, they were already annoyed they were in and now I'm going to now I'm going to re-engage them and say, like, this thing that we both remember is not true, but you don't even know that it's not true.

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Can I tell you something about revealing too much? You know this, but we can't I can't talk about it, but I know I like it. I'm going to talk about it.

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But I'm sorry, but I personally know a person who. There's like an urban legend thing, like I also know someone that the story. Became an urban legend, but I was there. So I don't know, I don't know. You are like you're always talking about like how like John Legend, like a Terminator. Like you're a Terminator. I might be. You have been at some shit. I just saw a post about that fucking the Oscars.

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It is like it was like busy you have been and so at so many like cultural things where people will be like this fucking to happen. Like I know what your face looked like on a day like just from five years ago. That's crazy.

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I mean, do I even talk about being at the Javits Center four years ago when they did not win the presidency and that they be when Lady Gaga screamed at me across the room to no tears, I'm positive it's not over yet.

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And I was like, it's fucking over 70 years that her name, Stephanie Stephanie and Stephanie Johnson was raising Germanotta Germanotta. You know, my last name's Liam. I can't fucking do it anyway.

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Wow. Casey, that's a twist I didn't see coming. I do have to see the Joshua story brought us all so much joy. So I'm sorry that it got you into a little bit of trouble. But also, I'm not sorry because that's really funny.

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It's so funny. I die laughing. I love dogs with people, names of kids across the board. I do anything wrong.

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You didn't kill a bunny.

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And we were just kids and you were. Turns out we might have been hallucinating it. My mind was that I was like, do I call a person and like, talking to you? But then I was like.

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Where we are right now is if I told that person, they'd be like it's an urban legend because you've been telling people, here's the other thing that I'm going to say is that, like, sometimes people in the world refuse to acknowledge that, like Santero said, things happen.

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Like things can become sort of like urban legends because things actually weird shit actually does happen.

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A life is very similar to like we're getting really annoyed at this comedian online who was like attacking this lady, like, you know, just like a Random House lady who had posted a joke about, like her kids.

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And it was like a parental observation, you know, like we all have, like. Yeah. You know, like whatever it takes so fucking long for your kids to get their shoes on or whatever it was like. And it was a joke that she tweeted. Right. And she didn't have that many followers. And somehow he found it and was like, this is years ago.

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I was like going after her because he it was like a bit in his in some stand up thing.

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And he was like, you obviously saw it and then you just stole it.

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And I was like, OK, bro, first of all, like, you don't hold the pattern for, like, parental observation.

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Like, that's just not a thing.

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And secondly, like in all of that stuff with, like, the Twitter joke stealing and all that shit, most of the time I'm not I don't think that people don't do that. Obviously people do. Obviously, we know that. And like, you know, the aggregate sites are like probably the worst offenders because they're making so much fucking money off other people's jokes and stuff. But, yes, like, people do take things. But also, can we allow for the possibility that two people have the same fucking funny thought and she never saw your stupid standup special?

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Dude, I'm like, she's just a mom who thought a funny thing and posted it, you know what I mean?

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And like, any time I actually think of a I don't even really tweet at this point because I'm just like, oh, it's not worth it to, like, wade into that.

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But any time I do think of something, I'm like I'm sure someone else has already tweeted this.

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And then I think, is it worth it for me to tweet it and then have somebody j'accuse me?

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I joke stealer when I'm like, I'm not gaining anything from this. Like, there's no there's nothing to be had at this point for me, like tweeting a joke out on Twitter. So I just take it to the group chats. I take my child into the group, chat with y'all on the date night.

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Oh my God. You did so much to the group chat on Dibala. I didn't watch. I couldn't watch.

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No, I had to watch her, but I was just like this one thing really got me out and I got to tell you, but not put it on the Internet. And guess what? I was satisfied. My friends left and I'm not getting dragged.

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I have a house up to it.

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Oh, I decided to live at my house. OK, ok. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is just like timing wise was just not it was not the vibe. It was you weren't feeling that. You weren't feeling like it was too. Yeah. I mean I was like hysterically crying.

[00:30:56]

It was like difficult also just to wrap our head around that, like our kids. I couldn't do that to my children. I feel like that would like fuck them in the head. Like they would develop weird things about houses like I have.

[00:31:09]

Yeah, maybe I don't know. I just think, like, they left L.A. for what they thought was three weeks and then when you don't know.

[00:31:19]

Yeah.

[00:31:20]

And it is so weird. I mean we are going to.

[00:31:26]

Probably rent like we have a house person staying there right now, Raymond, who's living his best life closet, I was wearing your glasses. I was like, those are my glasses. I caught my eye level. He's like, caught.

[00:31:46]

But it's like on Instagram, it's like you to me out. I mean, I love it.

[00:31:51]

My neighbor my neighbor texted me and was like, oh, no. Like, please tell me you're not really moving permanently.

[00:31:59]

Like, I'll be so sad. And I said, Oh, I don't think so. I think we found people that want to rent it. But my assistant is living his best life there for the moment.

[00:32:11]

And he goes, Oh yeah, I know I, I follow him on Instagram. And what's happening. Like what. Like shooting in the backyard, you know what I mean.

[00:32:24]

And this is so fun to me, but I'm going to go and watch it some more because it seems to me that your closet, when you should I mean, when I was like I kind of rarely because, listen, I cry.

[00:32:37]

I'm really bad at having people work for me. Casey knows how bad I am at it. I'm like the worst. Yeah, that's not true. But, you know, I'm not the best. There's challenges. I have challenges.

[00:32:50]

Here's what I do for you. I had a very good time. Well, that's different.

[00:32:56]

I mean, like like I get uncomfortable in having someone who is supposed to be like a sister doing assisting.

[00:33:07]

No, truly, it's hard.

[00:33:08]

I fully understand that. I like I had to get two different calendars just for me. I don't have an assistant. So I understand that you need help. And I think we aren't used to asking for help. You want to avoid having the people in your life who are your friends and your family feel like they work for you.

[00:33:29]

At least I have to avoid that. That is like a major thing that can be. It would be way better if Mark would just agree to be my assistant.

[00:33:41]

He gets you. It gets you that I.

[00:33:45]

I mean, that's where I would like things to go. But I'm feeling it. I get it.

[00:33:52]

But anyway, I worked all last week, which is crazy. Yeah. And I covered test every day and yeah it's hard to, it's like harder than I thought it would be because of the covid stuff. Yeah. Like the biggest issue currently for me that I'm facing is the lack of craft services. Oh yeah. Now that's so sad. That's the best part about it.

[00:34:17]

I mean like having a job is the best part. But that's I mean, you guys, I don't even think it's probably a Hollywood break. Probably everyone knows what craft services is. Right. But Hollywood break because it's like it's catering.

[00:34:29]

But we call the craft services, right? Yeah, but it's like food that's out on a table all the time.

[00:34:35]

Yeah. And it like is like Peanut Eminem's and like jars of gummy bears and like whatever chips you want and like and then like a little station to make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and then like after a lunch break there's always like cookies and cakes and things snap like it's Snack Town USA, like Cougar Town, like just there was always like something delicious happening. Right.

[00:35:00]

I did a movie in Mexico and it was the best because it was just all Mexican treats.

[00:35:06]

It was just like a bunch of shit I never had before. And I was like, this is very cool.

[00:35:11]

Oh, my God. Oh, that's amazing. I didn't realize how much I counted on a little snack every every once in a while, every minute going.

[00:35:23]

And until that was just not this. Obviously they have food for people, but you have to it's like a whole process, like, yeah, you have to order it.

[00:35:32]

And I mean and then you feel bad and you don't want to do it because you're like, hey, can you get me three peanut empanadas?

[00:35:40]

I mean, like, I just can't do that. That's fucking crazy. Not our vibe. It's why that's. No.

[00:35:47]

So then I went to the grocery store. Like to a bodega, I just got like a bunch of candy, but then I just ate it all.

[00:35:57]

Yeah, yeah, there's no winning here.

[00:35:59]

So it's like when you sell candy in a band, when you you know, they give you like twenty four candy bars to sell. And then that night you've eaten 20 candy bars and you get 20 dollars.

[00:36:13]

OK, so that was so that was work.

[00:36:14]

But also I love everybody that I work with, like I love.

[00:36:19]

Birrell's is the highest and she's the nicest. I met her nowadays, I met her at a wedding and I had a wedding because I used to be on a cruise ship and one of her friends worked on a cruise ship. And I went to his wedding and we went there. And when I tell you she was so nice, she's just saying it was so cool.

[00:36:37]

I was like, yes, and this is fun.

[00:36:40]

And Renee, Elise Goldsberry is incredible, although I haven't worked with her that much yet, but I can't wait to see this show.

[00:36:48]

I'm obsessed with everybody in it.

[00:36:50]

But then Paula Pell is like my new best friend. I can't stop. I am like obsessed with Paula. And but then the other thing that's crazy is like.

[00:37:03]

Dancing and singing, like like I've had like I've had like these like dance rehearsals and stuff and like choreography and learning these things, then go back to white chicks.

[00:37:14]

I know. But what I got really frustrated because I was like posting some stories and stuff from work and like, you can see my makeup, but you can't, like, really see the full looks. And, you know, they are being kind of like, remember when I couldn't announced I thought I could announce a job.

[00:37:34]

And they're like, no, you can't announce the job.

[00:37:36]

And then when they were doing my contract, my lawyer called me. It was like, who's the best? Sheryl shout out to Sheryl?

[00:37:45]

And she was like, So they're trying to put in this caveat that you can't talk about work on your podcast or Instagram. And I told them that was a non-starter because this is like a huge part of your life and you obviously have to be able to talk about it.

[00:38:03]

And I also was like, I understand lawyers, whatever, but like I'm not going to tell the plot of the fucking Jews.

[00:38:12]

And I a little bit was like, fine, I'll just like, do whatever, you know, like, fine. So then they added a thing. They just made it like she not to talk about specifics of the plot points, characters, blah blah blah, blah, blah and OK, fine.

[00:38:27]

And that if we wanted any of the people from the show to be on our podcast, that I have to get like approval, which is so annoying because cerebral is already was like, I really want to be on your podcast. And I was like, hmm, well I have to go through the panels anyway. So then so I'm like. Whatever, so I was like Instagram storying from work, and you could totally you can see my makeup and my hair and stuff, right.

[00:38:54]

So then this whole this email goes out, like just to remind everybody that there's a policy that you can Instagram and you can just remind everybody or fucking me that it's just me, like, just send me the fucking email and.

[00:39:09]

And I was like, whatever. This is so annoying because you know, that then when the fucking show comes out, they're like, are you live tweeting? Are you going to post like how many prepared you for the show? It's like this is all the thing. This is part of the reason why it's you want me like it, right?

[00:39:27]

You're getting people hyped up for it. I am hyped up for it. So hyped up about fucking people telling me what I can and can't talk about bullshit. But also because then. Cause then. So I have. Obviously not posted my full look, not like done any pictures like where, you know, whatever, even though I am very excited about what we are putting together. Can Daily Mail and just Jered, we're filming in Times Square and it's like all over, so I'm not allowed to post it with, like paparazzi photos of me making some fucking ugly face and like looking like, you know, and like my stomach punched out like this really frustrated me.

[00:40:15]

I felt like that was not doing the best for me. Yeah, it's frustrating.

[00:40:21]

You're just trying to get people excited to try to get people excited, but also like the idea, like, let's walk it through. Yeah. Do we get to do I get this is why I liked Instagram to begin with. Yeah. I get to control the images. I get to control what people see and the first look that they see of this character should not be me.

[00:40:43]

Like joking around with Sarah not in character, but like wearing all this hair and makeup and wardrobe and what I mean.

[00:40:52]

Yeah. Yeah. In Times Square like it's just it feels unfair.

[00:40:56]

You guys unfair as relative and you know what I mean. Yes.

[00:41:02]

Oh my God. We're speaking of unfair. The saga with the Mirch, you guys and his school, oh, no, now it's just all turned. Well, you know, I was really trying to be involved in this school that was starting in L.A. And so I volunteered and I did the merch and I did all this research.

[00:41:23]

And and honestly, this is why when I was doing it, my friend whose little job it is, is to make like he does like crew gifts for he does corporate gifts.

[00:41:36]

And so he he and his wife have two kids in public school in Los Angeles. And so they do the merch for the public schools that, you know, in L.A. like to fundraise. And so I called him first and he's like, dude, you should have called me before you volunteered for that job. Like, it is a thankless job and people are so horrible. Like, just wait.

[00:41:55]

And I was like, what do you mean? How bad could it be? And he's like, just wait. I was like, I'm putting a lot of thought into this. Like, I'm making sure that the stuff is like sustainably made. And you guys know and we didn't get into it on the podcast, but I went like deep.

[00:42:09]

Or. That's what. OK, so anyway, I, I like really got into it, and I did because Tida is so big, I did these like a little bit of a different design on a plain white shirt that could be tie dyed and then that those women that make those tie dye kits in L.A., Lizhi and Laks, and they made many kits. So I worked this whole fucking thing. Right.

[00:42:38]

And then I mean and it was a lot and it was just like always like so where we add on this, like, it was never like, you know what I mean?

[00:42:49]

They were just like, yeah, everybody was so rude to me about it. Like like this is like. This is this is my whole job, we're getting paid a lot of money to do this. Exactly. It would be very easy to say, like busy.

[00:43:03]

Thank you so much for working on our school merch. Do you have any updates you want to share with us?

[00:43:08]

Oh, also, by the way, by the way, I got our dear friend Molly Closs, who did the podcast title card title card, like for us from her company refinery, the refinery, the refinery as a gift, as a gift. She did that for us. And they the refinery did all of the busy tonight logo and all of our graphics packages there, like a company in Los Angeles that specializes in that kind of thing. They had been using the school, had been using some logo that like they didn't own.

[00:43:47]

And so I sent it to Molly and she's like, oh, I'll just do based on this, I'll just remake it. And then you guys own it. Yeah. And whatever. So I got her to do that. No one was. I mean, people were like, OK, great, ok, ok, my great, great, great.

[00:44:08]

So there were some like issues with some of the stuff, but also like it's covid, there's like shipping issues, like things are just kind of wild, you know.

[00:44:20]

So anyway and like getting the tie to the Titanic, it was like a little bit high concept. I'm just going to say, I mean, because the traffic I tried, but things had to come separately and, you know, whatever, it doesn't even matter. It was a little bit of a fucking mess.

[00:44:40]

And so, anyway, the woman who I sort of had been like having you know, I like her. She's got a lot on her plate to everybody's dealing with a lot. I'm always trying to give people like the benefit of the doubt.

[00:44:54]

Yeah, but. You know, I'm starting this job, I'm here, there. Oh, plus then I guess, like, we had done it all wrong and like, we didn't have permission from LAUSD to even fucking sell, like, it was like a whole Michigan. Right. And I was like, well, that's not my I don't know, like I don't know.

[00:45:15]

You told me to get you told me to get some shirts and I got you some shirts. That's it. I'm not kidding. You shouldn't hear. I was like, I don't know.

[00:45:25]

But also like when I then was trying to help this woman figure out, like what the what LAUSD requires in order to I was like, oh, this is impossible.

[00:45:39]

So she said, here's another place we have to use this place for the next Bertsch drop.

[00:45:46]

And I was like, oh, boy.

[00:45:47]

And then she was like, I had texted me and I was like, look, I can't I think maybe if there's somebody else that can handle it, that would be that would be great, because I don't think I have the bandwidth to go with this at this moment. And she was like, OK, fine, can you at least send me the logo?

[00:46:06]

Is which that's how she responded. And I was like, first of all, I sent it to you for a month, like I could. Secondly, I can resend it.

[00:46:19]

I sent it again.

[00:46:22]

Right. So then I get this text. I'm I'm like shooting and like, crazy. It's crazy, whatever. And I get those text books, like when I want to get it exactly right, because it's truly wild.

[00:46:39]

OK, ok. So and so still in all caps has not gotten a tie dye kit. What can be done. This is so unfair.

[00:46:54]

And I was like no. OK, well honestly I can think of everything.

[00:47:03]

There can be no there is relative is relax.

[00:47:07]

I'm not currently I need a fucking snack so I feel like that's really unfair. But anyway, I was like, you know what, I own it. This is totally on me. I'm so sorry I messed up and I can have and like grab and deliver today and a tie dye kid that they ain't going to use today.

[00:47:30]

And then like what time? And I was like, I don't know, I'm on set. I don't know. I think you should just have him drop it to my house. At least if I have it, I'll know where it is.

[00:47:42]

Oh, OK. All right. Wow. You know, I know good deeds, guys.

[00:47:49]

No good fuckin deeds.

[00:47:53]

So then anyway, you know, obviously resolved and the unfairness was rectified. Rectified that right. Yeah. Anyway, it's wild out here man. Ray delivered the ticket successfully and then she was like, thank you so much.

[00:48:10]

Have a great day. I'm like, oh my God. I'm like, I just want three fucking peanut. I'm them.

[00:48:19]

And so anyway, needless to say about amount of volunteering for anything ever again, I would love to say that, that it's a Hollywood problem, but I was like a Connecticut parent volunteer and it was the same.

[00:48:35]

Yeah, it's like the vibe everywhere.

[00:48:38]

But why is it so, why so mean. Why so thankless. Why so like you're not doing it right? I think there's like a lot of probably deep psychological issues that go into it. It could probably be a whole podcast about just talking about like people get so defensive on the on behalf of their kids. And like, maybe this woman feels like it's such a thankless job that I volunteered for. And that job is harassing busy Philipps via text about I don't care.

[00:49:07]

You know what I mean?

[00:49:08]

I also think that there is such people are like looking for control and power in so many different ways. But also there is a minute amount of time for which you can have this particular power like your kids are in school for like this specific amount of time. So like even if you get as powerful as possible, like you there is, it's over like a power trip.

[00:49:33]

I was the president of the preschool board when my kids were in preschool. And I was we had a fundraiser meeting and I said, we're going to have the best fundraiser event ever that this preschool's ever seen. And I got reprimanded because that was insulting to all of the other fundraisers that had ever had. I can see how that person was feeling. She didn't walk in and say, like, OK, we can all agree last year was bullshit, this shit bags last year was fucking garbage.

[00:50:15]

Here's the thing. Like I thought I wrongly thought because this was public school and not the private school, like I had already learned my lesson previously.

[00:50:27]

And being a parent when Bertie had started her private elementary school and I had like gung ho been a volunteer and then immediately was like, oh, this is a not for me, man. I am not able to dedicate the time and energy that this will require for me to be a part of this community, i.e. as a volunteer, like I'm so impressed, like Simran does, like is like on my friend who I talk about years on, like all of these different.

[00:51:01]

Committee, as you know, at our kids school, and I'm in I'm a very effective executive functioning. That's right. And your girl, not so much. And so, like, I won't be doing that. One fundraiser was about like all I could handle it, guys.

[00:51:19]

Speaking of which, we are really I'm really working on putting together this magic show where I am not doing it. I'm making Raymond take it away.

[00:51:29]

So it's very exciting.

[00:51:32]

So I email connected Raymond with the magician here I talked to I talked to Dan from the event company, OK.

[00:51:41]

And so he is he is in. He's in.

[00:51:43]

And I will watch it work. I hosted the three of us are going to be used to be a show host. I love this. I we're having a party together, a magic party.

[00:51:53]

It's going to be a magic party for the holidays and we don't know when exactly yet, but sometime around the holidays.

[00:52:00]

Speaking of magic, you know who is the most magic? Our guest today. Oh, she is Merrill Markoe.

[00:52:08]

Now, listen, guys, I'm going to explain to you who Merrill Markoe has become a true icon, a true, true icon, a hero in many ways to all of us individually and collectively.

[00:52:22]

She is an author and a writer. But Merrill Markoe got her start with David Letterman.

[00:52:30]

They were basically creative partners.

[00:52:33]

And every bit that we love came from Merrill's brain. Like she was like the woman who ran it, who, like, held it down so all like stupid human tricks. And she came up with that stupid pet tricks, all the remotes, like everything where Dave went out on the streets and a camera followed him.

[00:52:57]

While we're talking to people through the earpieces, like she basically invented modern late night talk show. True, right?

[00:53:07]

Yeah. She'll say no, but yes. But you say yes. And I tell you and I say yes.

[00:53:15]

Let's listen to our talk with Merill Markoe guys.

[00:53:22]

Is Ray using my Athena Club stuff? And I mean, we have to smell his armpits and find out. Well, listen, I definitely am obsessed with Athena Club because it offers safe and sustainable self care essentials all in one spot and it comes right to your house. Everything from body care to wellness period care delivered when you need them, free shipping always. You never worry about running out of your essentials.

[00:53:50]

They're vegan and cruelty free. Everybody's loving all their products. I love the razor. That's misers. Great that with a little magnet holder. Yeah.

[00:54:03]

And I just also I hate cheap disposable razors. I just hate them and I don't like the super overpriced ones that like are locked up behind a thing I hate having to at right now more than ever. I want as little interaction with people as possible.

[00:54:22]

Yeah, I like it because they, they have so many items like I got face wipes and deodorant and probiotics and vitamins and razors and shaving cream and it felt like honestly like a care package like that someone nice would send you when you're in college or away at camp.

[00:54:37]

Oh I like that. OK, I'm, I'm in I liked my razor kit. I love my razor kit. The best part about the razor, it's only nine dollars. It includes two blade razor heads. Your choice of a razor handle color. I obviously got pink and that little matte that magnetic holder that we love. Yeah. Yeah. Other things to the magnet to sometimes by the way.

[00:55:02]

What else do you stick to them I got like I just have, like, you know, like a little skin tool and tweezers and sometimes I'll like take those into the shower to use my beer, like, while I'm in the shower and have a stick to the moon, too.

[00:55:18]

Well, all right. I mean, that's the best. I love that for you. OK, it doesn't stop at incredible razors with Athena Club. As the ladies told you, they carry all self care essentials that you need and every product is vegan and cruelty free. So stop using razors the under deliver and give you bumps and switch to within a club. Sign up today you're going to get 20 percent off your first order. It's really awesome. They have so much good stuff.

[00:55:50]

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[00:56:29]

Listen guys, I get it.

[00:56:32]

When money's tight, investing in yourself might not be the thing that you're like, oh, I'm going to spend my extra little bit of money on therapy. But here's the deal. We talk about it a lot. Mental health is a necessity. It's not a luxury. And taking care of yourself shouldn't and doesn't have to break the bank. And investing in your mental health has long term benefits.

[00:56:57]

So I would like to introduce you to talk space if you don't know what it is already. It is really awesome. I understand that, you know, times are tough and especially like when times are tough, your mental health can suffer even more. But that's why I just love this talk space. Talk space is a personalized support system. Someone to talk to you 24/7, someone trained to listen without judgment, to offer accountability and support with talk space.

[00:57:32]

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[00:57:38]

It's it's online therapy, you connect with a licensed therapist for a fraction of the price of in-person therapy and they match you up with your perfect therapist from the comfort of your device. And you can figure out how it works best for you, because unlike in person therapy sessions, it gives you twenty four hour, seven day a week access to your online therapy room.

[00:58:04]

You can send messages, unlimited messages to your dedicated therapist that will respond daily, five days a week. And best of all, an entire month of talk space cost about the same amount as a single in-person session. So they're on a mission to make therapy affordable and accessible for all.

[00:58:23]

I really think that so much of. The issues that everybody the country faces as a whole would be helped so greatly by people being able to talk things through with licensed therapists, get real help and real perspective on things and talk. Spazzes therapists are trained in over 40 specialties, including, but not limited to anxiety, depression, relationships and more. So no matter what, talk space is going to find you the perfect therapist. So it's affordable. They've got an extensive therapist network.

[00:59:03]

It is secure and private using the latest encryption technology to store client information, if that's something that you're concerned about. Obviously, I feel like we should all talk about our therapy all the time so that we can continue to destigmatize it. But I also get it. So the bottom line is, especially now, we need someone we can talk to and talk space wants to give us the support we deserve at a price we can afford. As a listener of this podcast, you get one hundred dollars off your first month of talks base to match with your perfect therapist, go to talk space dotcom or download the app.

[00:59:39]

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[01:00:12]

OK, I need to ask you right off the bat, are those your real nails?

[01:00:15]

No, I'm doing OK. No, I'm doing a show with Tina Fey and I play a former 90's girl band pop star who now is in her 40s and has these nails.

[01:00:29]

But those are those are acrylics. No, these are hard gel. Wow.

[01:00:34]

Because I once did a report when I used to work for local news, I went and interviewed people with the nails because I if I even if I get a manicure, it lasts 10 minutes until I get to my car in my purse. And I just was watching these people do this.

[01:00:53]

It's the Joan Rivers thing of all of you.

[01:00:57]

Obviously, I can't you can't see me on a podcast, but it's that arched fingers and then your nails are reaching skyward and then you can't actually do a button or anything.

[01:01:09]

Yeah, I try. I mistakenly tried to put on a dress yesterday that doesn't have a zipper. It's all like little tiny buttons, which why they even made that dress in the first place. It's stupid.

[01:01:22]

But it was it was a frustrating ten minutes in my closet. And I was like, this isn't happening for the time being while I'm shooting this.

[01:01:32]

You can't actually use a pencil or anything either, you know?

[01:01:37]

And I certainly. Yeah, and I certainly can't ask my husband to button or like, he's just not right. Anyway, Merill Markoe. Yeah. We're so we're so thrilled to have you. You're a legend or an icon. Yeah, I am. I'm a hyphenate. I'm yeah. Are you're you're you're a woman who paved the way in so many ways and for you know, what a legend means.

[01:02:05]

By the way, in that moment in your career, it means people think you're dead when there's no legend that you watch out and you're not you're not dead.

[01:02:19]

In fact, you have a new book out and you you illustrated it. And it's like based on your childhood diaries. Yeah. And then you did the illustrations for this book. It's really incredible. Maril, congratulations. Well, thank you. Yeah.

[01:02:31]

It's the stuff of legends who are still alive.

[01:02:37]

If you're not familiar with Merill Markoe, everyone, I like to say because my career has mostly been in late night talk shows and talk variety, that she's like the mother of the modern late night talk show. Everything that you think that you're watching, that's like the freshest, funniest thing in late night. Meryl kind of invented it.

[01:03:00]

Well, not everything. Just almost every single thing. Well, something's the good. Yeah. So so that's you know, obviously she holds a great deal of meaning for the three of us and what we've all been doing in our careers. But yeah, you started off working with David Letterman, who we recently had on the show. And, you know, you invented stupid Petrich, stupid human tricks. You were the brains behind the whole outfit.

[01:03:35]

So, you know, I was a brain behind it, that's for sure, and I was there with them for two other. So he was on his fourth show by the time he retired. But I did the first meeting with him. There were two others before the one that lasted a lot of years. There was a morning show and then there was a pilot for a syndicated show. So we we had a lot of practice before we finally hit the ground running.

[01:04:03]

Yes. You worked on Late Night, the NBC show, and which I think is just like the template for what everyone's still doing now.

[01:04:10]

Well, that was because, weirdly, when we when we started creating a show for him, it was sort of there was nothing at all going in those shows. I mean, I really you know, this is a thing you're not supposed to say, but I just really could never get through The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. I just thought it was dull and I thought Johnny Carson was weird with women. So so I just I never watched. It was a thing I understood the other people liked.

[01:04:40]

And I knew Letterman like that. But for me, it was just missing everything that I would look for in a television show. So when we we started doing that stuff, we had a blank slate in front of us, everything in the world that was still available. So we put as much of it as we could on there. And then it's for other people to find the other holes and fill those.

[01:05:07]

I mean, I feel like you've filled a lot of holes. Oh, but but can I ask you a question?

[01:05:15]

Did you were you a performer yourself or were you always going to be a writer?

[01:05:22]

Well, I. I sort of wanted to be an actress when I started when I was in high school. And then and then my parents were very upset about that whole idea. I was part of the drama crowd in high school. So then when I went to college the most I picked the most the craziest college to go to because I had my choice of just the UC system, because and everybody will get really upset about this. When I went to the UC system, it was seventy five dollars a quarter.

[01:05:49]

Yes, I know you said that again. So we can speak so we can speak that into existence again. My parents didn't you know, they wanted me to go.

[01:06:00]

We just moved to California and they wanted me to go to the UC system because it was so budget friendly. So I didn't really have my choice of any other campuses. They weren't going to pay tuition.

[01:06:09]

So so off the U.S. campuses, Berkeley was the one that looked like me to me, and that's where I went. And the only thing that really looked unstructured and creative to me in the Berkeley departments was the art department. So that's where I went to. I mean, I liked art, but they didn't have a film department. They didn't have a TV department. They didn't have that stuff. And so and I didn't go I didn't go to the drama department because my parents were making such a lot of noise about it.

[01:06:39]

So it's not a real career.

[01:06:42]

They probably said, well, they just didn't like anything about that whole idea that you be doing that. So when I so I got this art degree, I actually got a Masters to at least be able to draw a look at that. But it was a lot of drinking and and and talking gobbledygook, actually, and a lot of drinking, a lot like that. With this beer, I thought people would be clamoring for my services. I didn't have any kind of practical sense of anything.

[01:07:13]

I just thought that I would show up at an ad agency, for instance, and they'd go, Oh, my God, you have a B.A. in art. Looks at me so. So that didn't happen at all because I didn't even have that kind of portfolio. My portfolio was nude sketches and stuff. And I got a job teaching at USC for a year. And when I went to USC to teach, I was teaching freshmen drawing and painting.

[01:07:37]

I discovered the film department and I went, so wait a minute. You're saying there's a department that is I just I never thought it was a thing. I thought that the way you got into it never occurred to me that you would study television or film. I just thought that was a thing, the way that you got a job, and that is that your father had a job and gave you a job. And here's the thing.

[01:08:00]

That is how you get a job in a lot of time. I'm here to give you a horrible example.

[01:08:06]

So I sat and and I went back up to San Francisco after my job was over. I only had a one year job and I wrote spec material which I had learned to do by taking screenwriting at USC. They were letting me audit classes because I was faculty and I went back up and I wrote spec material. And then I moved back down to L.A. by myself and and I got a job really quickly. This is going to be very depressing to hear, but I couldn't believe it.

[01:08:32]

I just seriously couldn't believe it that I had showed up. I had maybe two hundred and fifty dollars. I had a car that only one door opened and I, I moved to L.A. and I moved into right across from NBC. It was an hourly hotel that I checked into a terrifying place where I was moving the furniture in front of the door. When I went to sleep at night and I went around, I made like two contacts and both of them turned into something big.

[01:09:01]

One of them was I became a researcher for the woman who used to be the head writer on Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman. And then, oh, my God.

[01:09:07]

Oh, my God, she linked me. I mean, it was quick. It was maybe a month went by without me having any. And it wasn't a lot of money, but it was really encouraging. And then I met a woman who was an intern at at a sitcom.

[01:09:24]

It was actually the Freddie Prinze sitcom, which was called Chico and the Man Chico. You go in the main. I got an apartment in Hollywood where we we had mattresses on the floor and forth and and I started hanging around the improv. And then I got a job on staff at this thing, The New Laughin, which was a really terrible show. But I couldn't believe somebody was hiring me. I mean, the whole thing was so weirdly easy, right?

[01:09:52]

It was so much easier than getting a job teaching art that I thought, jeez, I mean, I was I was stunned by it. I still am. It was really I mean, talk about a pivot that for me still stands out in my mind as some kind of weird. Eight, that I made my way down to a place because I couldn't get any jobs where I was in San Francisco, there was nothing and I made my way down to L.A. and got jobs.

[01:10:17]

It still is shocking to me that I think A plus B will see, you know, just that I actually took a risk and and I fell into an area where I met people that I got along with really well. They were all funny.

[01:10:30]

I didn't know any funny people at all know somebody who you knew in San Francisco was going to listen to this and be like, dang, I was I was so sure it had nothing much to do with me that it was just a question of amazing circumstances that I was telling every person I knew in San Francisco, no, seriously, just move here and they just give you a job.

[01:10:54]

I that's kind of wild. I mean, it also, though, I think really speaks to that thing that we've talk about on this show. And truly what just happened to me, which is like sometimes you just got to move. You got to, like, move to a new place, change the scenery, change what you're looking at every day. And like maybe the maybe the world shows up for you. Like, that is pretty wild. You were meant to be there.

[01:11:21]

And I mean, like, obviously everyone moving to L.A. is not going to get a job in two months, especially these days. But I think that are even especially back then, I think one of the things that really struck me is that, like, right off the bat you are like I met two women and they helped. And I was like, man, I was like, OK, now I'm getting there. That's tough.

[01:11:41]

Yeah, I never thought to add that up, but they both of my opportunities came through. Women.

[01:11:46]

Yeah, women helping women. No woman is going to like, suggest or recommend another woman that is like bad. I know that like men will do that. They'll be like my friends like not that cool are good at the job but he's like cool. How come we women don't like we always like can back it up like they knew they were like this. This is like a bad bitch. She's cool and I'm going to help her like this. You definitely deserve it.

[01:12:11]

Yeah.

[01:12:12]

I was going to say the other thing was that that was weird to me is that I didn't it didn't occur to me because I had been at Berkeley for six years and I'm teaching art in an art department.

[01:12:23]

It didn't occur to me that it was verboten for women. I, I wasn't I wasn't paying attention to that. And my first job that I got this one where I was on the new lesson as a staff writer and I didn't really even know how to write jokes. I just I knew how to be funny, but I didn't know how it broke down into a quantity. That was actually a joke. When I went in for that job, I had written some sketches that I hope would be on Saturday Night Live.

[01:12:48]

I mean, that was for me that Saturday Night Live was kind of new and I really wanted to work on on that show. So that was sort of my sensibility. The first time I'd ever seen it on TV was satirical, weird to surreal and stuff. And when I went in for that job interview, the guy, the producer of the show, who was the producer of the old eleven yelled to somebody in the next office, hey, come in here and take a look at Merrill Markoe because they thought I was a guy.

[01:13:15]

Oh, I we've talked about this before. I've had that experience, too. I've gone into a meeting and have had someone say, oh, you're a woman.

[01:13:26]

Joan Rivers. Joan Rivers actually thought that I was a guy, but so you so you what what was that person's reaction? Seeing that you were a woman and they knew? Laughing Well, you know what?

[01:13:36]

There was this thing going on then that a friend of mine from that same era and I have talked about, we used to make fun of it was called the the quota system.

[01:13:47]

And they would always they were at that point trying to hire two women on a staff and they already have their two women. So they were looking for anyone else. So I would have I ended up being the third woman because they got me in there and I guess they they wanted me. But then the quota system went away. It was, you know, looking back on it, we used to just go, oh, yeah. Well, they got through two women.

[01:14:12]

Boy, oh, boy, oh, boy. But then not expecting that it was going to roll backwards and there would be no women, I was going to say they put it back.

[01:14:21]

They just don't call it anything. And now it's now it's zero zero to one.

[01:14:25]

No, now it's how we got a woman on the staff. No.

[01:14:29]

And then, you know, I mean, now it's we talk to a woman about this job, but we didn't give it to her. One time I was approached by a show because they they were like, we have all guys writers. Can you we know that you have a job right now. Can you help us find we want to hire two women. And so I, like, helped them embark on this, like, giant search to hire two women writers.

[01:14:52]

And in the end, they hired one woman and one guy. Jeez.

[01:14:57]

Well, you know, our mutual friend, Nell Skunk. Yes. Has done a lot of that, just throwing names in the pot of stuff she has somehow managed. To make her way into the inner workings of all these different shows and insist that they listen to a list that she will give the people. Yes, women who are looking for. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:15:19]

So it's so mind boggling to me. The other thing, Meryl, like you're exceptional at what you do, obviously, and you think you were an innovator and had, you know, have so much experience. But the one thing that does always drive Casey and me crazy is the people that act like making television is fucking brain surgery. And unless you went to Harvard like you have no business in the room, it's just like, guys, come on, we can we can people can learn how to produce a segment, you know what I mean?

[01:15:53]

Let's give someone a shot. It doesn't have to just be, you know, a guy named Josh or whatever, like like from Harvard, you know.

[01:16:04]

So I'm I am unfortunately responsible for two, because when we Letterman and I did a morning show and then we did that the night show, and then I chose the one that caught fire. But the morning show, we hired all our friends and because we were supposed to. Have a family. The guy who asked for us to have a family meant that we should have like the old style variety show where you have someone who's a singer and they do the ends of the day.

[01:16:33]

So you have some guy, Julius La Rosa, and he sings Khateeb Sniglet, you know, and then he enjoys that.

[01:16:42]

We weren't going to do that.

[01:16:43]

So we hired people who did characters, which was more along the lines of what we appreciated. And that show tanked and went down in flames. So by the time we hit the night show, I was you know, I was very enmeshed with Mr. Letterman and he not an easy going. Like, I don't know if you've noticed that about him. Maybe he makes it seem like that when you interview him.

[01:17:07]

No, actually, I feel like I don't know. He I feel like he took a lot of responsibility for how he maybe was not the the easiest or best behaved human when he was having having his he was continuously obsessed with the fact that we were about to get canceled.

[01:17:27]

Yeah, I was in charge of hiring the writers on The Tonight Show, and I was so terrified that I was going to make a mistake again, like we had done on the morning show where they ended up. We had to fire all our friends, which I don't recommend to anyone, by the way. No, no, it's not great. I'm lucky that some of those women are still speaking to me. Anyway, I found a little pocket of people that seemed right to the right amount of cerebral and silly, which is what how I analyze what Dave was and what I was.

[01:17:59]

I found found him at the Harvard Lampoon. I mean, that's your fault.

[01:18:05]

You said your fault. You started it. I'm married. You know, I'm still friends with those people.

[01:18:13]

Yeah, I still love them. They're really. Well, that's great. They still look at me like I'm a fucking idiot until I say something funny. And then they look again and they're like, oh, OK. I guess I misjudged you.

[01:18:28]

I'd probably be doing that to me too, except for that they know better. So, yeah, obviously I never thought that that was going to be. You said a not.

[01:18:39]

Yeah, I thought you really, really you had a like you constructed a pipeline.

[01:18:46]

That's pretty incredible.

[01:18:48]

And, you know, it was really, really hard then before the Internet to find even women to read. Like when I was at it didn't even occur to me to be especially looking for women when we started up the night show, because I didn't think that was a problem anymore. I was so delusional that I thought, well, you know, we're past that now. Right.

[01:19:08]

And then I think it becomes like a culture that, you know, that that that's what happened in the beginning.

[01:19:14]

And then it's just how it continues to be done, you know? Right.

[01:19:19]

So it's like that really surprised me that that that that was how it continued to be done. I was looking really hard to just make it not get canceled and horrible because, you know, when you're very connected to that post, you know, he is not going to take that very well if he got canceled again. So, yeah, because you were this couple, you were professionally, professionally connected and personally connected to him.

[01:19:45]

It was like your whole life at that time.

[01:19:46]

I'm sure it was my whole life. And it eventually created another pivot by by probably not necessarily by choice.

[01:19:57]

Right. Well, you know, bye bye. Life.

[01:19:59]

Life creates these credits for you. I mean, the the first one, which was me leaving art and going into into writing, came out of the two things. One, being kind of disillusioned with teaching at a college, which I thought was my dream job, and to having a big asthma attack where I just I didn't really want to move back to San Francisco. And I had an asthma attack for a year. And it was also a good explanation for me of what it means to have a sudden asthma attack.

[01:20:32]

It's you know, I'm not saying everybody's asthma attack is due to emotional reasons.

[01:20:39]

I'm saying my answer was I moved to Atlanta, never had another asthma episode. Oh, interesting. Yeah, very interesting.

[01:20:48]

Sometimes you you know, you're you're not listening to yourself is. Yeah, we were.

[01:20:53]

Jodhi holds that, guys. Yeah. We were just talking about your body, how your brain in your body obviously they are connected but your body remembers things and does things in our brain ignores it. And your body got to L.A. and was like, hey, I'm going to treat you so much better here. I can breathe here, I can breathe here.

[01:21:11]

I'm in with a smoker in the smog. It's part of L.A. and I didn't have asthma. So, yeah, I used to be. I was I just went through that this. Summer, remember, I was so sick in L.A., I had that horrible acid reflux, I couldn't stop coughing and I was like, I got to get that, we got to get the fuck out. And we all moved. I moved my family to New York.

[01:21:33]

I thought temporarily. And then I ended up getting a job here. And now we're here maybe forever. I don't know.

[01:21:37]

You're in New York. Yeah. So, Meral, so you're at late night and you're like, you know, you're running the show basically. And then.

[01:21:48]

Well well, the big the big turn around. I mean, the big pivot for the talk show was on the morning show where I was running the show and the producers, the producer quit before we hit the air. A producer they are fond of a guy who ran game shows and and who didn't think anything that we were doing was funny. So he would we were doing run through, you know, have that run through a week or a couple before.

[01:22:14]

I don't know what you guys did on your talk show, but yeah, we had yeah. Practice shows like maybe three years. Yeah. And this this lunatic stood there. He was a man in his 60s. So I'm going to say I don't really know how old he was and and he stood there just shaking his head like you guys are so screwed. This is so not funny. It's really not funny. Just the worst possible thing you could do to a piece of comedy is how disapproving parents standing beside you making a face like it was horrible.

[01:22:49]

So so I was he quit and then I actually was running that show and I've never been on a talk show. That's still remains for me, one of the weirdest experiences I've ever had in my life. What was being put in charge of a thing? I didn't even know what it was exactly.

[01:23:07]

You know, here's the thing. That is another precedent that you set, because that happens a lot.

[01:23:14]

But here's what's weird is I had never seen a rundown for a show and the only producer who had been there was gone. And I didn't know how long to I was suddenly in charge of making the rundown, so I didn't know how long to imagine the opening jokes were going to be. And then how long do you imagine the opening interview was going to be? And I had a slot all that and had commercials. So I was sitting at a small office by myself going, all right, I'd say two minutes.

[01:23:41]

And then how much is a commercial?

[01:23:44]

It's thirty seconds. And so then you have two thirty.

[01:23:49]

And then I was doing that until my my eyes were spinning in different directions and, you know, love math. Who don't you don't love math.

[01:23:58]

I just didn't know whether I was getting it right or not. You know, we were going into our life and I didn't know if I was was putting together something was broken. It was hard finding.

[01:24:09]

What was that like the first time you went live and you were, like, running the show? Were you just, like, shitting a brick?

[01:24:15]

Yeah, I was running around. I remember I had I had put together a script and and I had imagined how long things were. So let's say you pretend the first interview was three minutes, which is way too short. But I didn't know whether it was or not. And so you write that in and then it goes five minutes. So then what do you do? You know, I was running around going, oh my God, I put out two and three in the world order.

[01:24:39]

Everybody write down three instead of where do I go? Oh, my gosh. So then when that show when that show was canceled, when that show ended, like, how did Dave has told us how he felt.

[01:24:55]

How does not feel happy. Yeah. Yeah. That's what he said. He said he was like, it was like the worst thing that had ever happened. And that's why when you guys got The Late Show, he was just like his only focus was to stay on the air.

[01:25:10]

Yeah, but we broke up in the middle because he was not happy for many, many weeks.

[01:25:17]

He was not you know, his career was over, that everything was over. And then when we started the night show, I actually wasn't going to come back because it had been so ghastly at the end of the morning show. But then I was the person who held the keys to the kingdom. I understood how the thing worked. I had figured out how to write for Dave because I was inside his brain far too much. And then from that point on, it was just he was worried we were going to get canceled every single day until I left.

[01:25:46]

That must have been fun.

[01:25:47]

That was a lot of fun, was a lot of fun. And meanwhile, we were doing everything we could think of, every single thing we could possibly think of.

[01:25:56]

You were really like reinventing the wheel or just inventing the wheel. How long were you out? Late night. How many years?

[01:26:04]

I was I was there sort of on and off for maybe six years.

[01:26:09]

Five years, six years. I was always aware of who you were growing up. And then my first big job when I left my hometown was to work on the late. The CBS show, and I just remember everybody talking, speaking with such reverence about you and everybody had like a Merrill story and like back in the days when Merrill was here, here's how it was when she was there.

[01:26:36]

Well, I.

[01:26:38]

I just had such a huge impression made on me about who you were because people were like she was like a mad scientist and she could, like, rewrite the act, too, when Act one was happening, you know. That's lovely.

[01:26:51]

That's very nice. You know, and I also have the weird additional thing that I don't think he ever wanted to replicate. I'm sure he didn't ever want to replicate again where because of our personal relationship, I would just follow him when he was taking a shower, followed him into the bathroom to stand outside the shower reading the material.

[01:27:08]

So nobody else really could do that. Yeah, look at that now and week. Well, I do now nobody anyway.

[01:27:21]

So you guys. So what happened? Like, did you want to you wanted to leave the show? You guys broke up. What was your next big pivot out of late night?

[01:27:29]

Well, when I finally left, because I just didn't like how I was being treated there at the show and I felt that I was being I was taking outside work at the same time because I was always worried that everything was going to come to a halt on the show. And I needed to keep some other thing going in my career. So I was writing episodes of sitcoms and, you know, in my in my off wigs and stuff. And then little by little, I was spending time in California going out on job interviews and so forth.

[01:27:58]

We were breaking up. I was just going to go try to pursue another career because I thought maybe, maybe too much was too much togetherness. I think if things had gone differently, I would have stuck around, but things were not working out for me there at that point. It just I would work on other shows. I'd be treated really kind of like it would be great, it would be fun and everybody would be pleasant and stuff. And when I was there in the enclave, I was the one person who was the repository of misery was like he would tell me stuff he wasn't saying to anyone else, and then he would hold me responsible for things and so forth.

[01:28:41]

And he wouldn't do that with other people. He just knew me really well. So that was, you know, that was not nearly so much fun as going to somebody else's show and have them be really happy to see me and tell me my work was good. Yeah, that's right.

[01:28:56]

It's like a typical child. And they say that, like, their outbursts of anger are to the safest person, a.k.a. their mother or their father.

[01:29:07]

It's like a petulant little kid who's like having a temper tantrum. And it's like you're the safest place for me to put all of this at. But that's not OK, because he's a full grown ass man with idea.

[01:29:18]

And I was and I was also that was my job. So it was my club and my home life. So I thought if I left, then I would be able to have a separated maybe maybe that would make everything just work out more smoothly because I didn't understand nearly the amount about people that I do now. And and I hadn't been to a shrink yet and so forth. And then I did go to a shrink and then I pivoted. Oh, yeah, yeah, yes.

[01:29:46]

Was there ever any feeling of like, I'm leaving behind, like, this is my fucking show. Did you ever feel like.

[01:29:52]

No, I never had his name on it. And I always knew the rules were I was supplying it for him. I didn't really have the sense that I didn't really have any real sense that I'm kind of missing a sense of entitlement. I came from a mother who was incredibly critical. So I don't fall back on a sense of any anything. Yeah, yeah.

[01:30:17]

Yeah, I get that. I get that.

[01:30:18]

And then and what I guess what you probably understand now is that there was no way to make that separation and make the relationship work because.

[01:30:27]

No, there wasn't. But I didn't understand that at the time. I thought it was somehow grow through that. Right and will continue. But I would new ground rules and and I would get other opportunities and I would do those. And then, you know, we were so enmeshed that I assumed that it would just continue somehow and then it didn't happen.

[01:30:49]

And then so so this is like this is what I feel like is probably like the major pivot in your life.

[01:30:55]

This was well, it was no more major, really, than moving to L.A. with two hundred dollars on a car with one door and getting work. That was yeah.

[01:31:05]

That was that's still astounds me. You know, I just realized he asked me if I'd ever been doing performing and I had been doing standup. That's how I actually met Dave as I was at the Comedy Store doing standup and which I did because I'm an. On the New Leffen, those that was such a weird job, full of unfunny things that I wanted and I had a friend who was you, and I just I want to see whether or not any of this material I'm writing is funny at all.

[01:31:32]

So I went to Monday nights for a while and then I got onto a more advanced line up and stuff. And then I met Dave and then I started doing his thing. So so when I got off of his show, I, I fell into another just weird opportunity, which paid almost no money but was so much fun. I got a job doing my own remote. So I had been in charge of all the remotes on Dave's show and I got a job doing that on local news in L.A., I was news 13 at 10 o'clock, a real news station, and then they gave me a thing called Miralles L.A. and it had its own sponsors and had a card and art card.

[01:32:14]

And I would drive at night and sit down with the weatherman and the news anchors and stuff and one of those little roundy desks and a teleprompter and introduce these pieces I were doing, which were the L.A. version of what I'd been doing on his show. And and I was allowed to do anything I wanted. I can't believe they letting me do that on local news. But on the other hand, I'm still very proud that L.A. magazine reviewed a big they did a big roundup of local news personalities.

[01:32:44]

And they included me and they said Merrill Markoe is the weirdest, most disturbing lifestyle reporter to hit.

[01:32:49]

The people said, I love that. Do you have that, like, printed out somewhere and hung up?

[01:32:58]

No, I'd have to look at it in a scrapbook somewhere. I like home. That's, like, amazing. Yeah, I was, too.

[01:33:05]

I was doing the stuff I was doing was so off the charts different than what you see in local news.

[01:33:10]

Those pieces are so funny. By the way, if you can find one online, I have a lot of them on my website.

[01:33:16]

And then there's if you type in Merrills, L.A., you know, there's there's chunks of them on YouTube and stuff. Yeah, I'm proud of them. They came up pretty good there. I'm going to watch them so funny.

[01:33:26]

You are so funny constantly. And I like you. Just me. You are very funny. I'm always amazed at how funny you are. I love you so much and I just.

[01:33:37]

You have been so kind to me. I remember the first time we met you were on you came on The Late Show to promote one of your book.

[01:33:45]

Now that was a pivot because. Yes, because that was wild. And I remember that day in the office being like there's like a vibe here, like there's a vibe that is coming on the show. And people were excited but also nervous and like, what's the vibe with Dave? He's going to see Merrill anyway. The interview, I think, went very nicely.

[01:34:04]

It was only like three minutes long. Yeah, exactly. And it was fine. But then after he said, I would like Merrill to I would like you to go invite Merrill to come up to the office to say hello. And I was like, oh, OK. Oh. So I went to your dressing room in the Ed Sullivan Theater, knocked on the door and was like, Hi Marilyn, nice to meet you. Dave wondered wanted me to invite you up to his office to chat for a minute and you were like, oh OK.

[01:34:32]

You were like put whatever getting into your street clothes. And you were like, come in. And then you were like, what's your name? And I told you. And you said, what's your job? And I was like, Oh, I'm one of Dave's assistants.

[01:34:41]

And you were like, Oh, Jesus, you like what do you what should we like, sit down and have a drink before we go over there?

[01:34:49]

What do we do? I'm and I appreciate that it was so funny and so personal and I'll never forget it.

[01:35:00]

But then we connected later through social media because, you know, it's it's such a small world.

[01:35:06]

Yeah. We had dinner and you just you're always so full of fucking amazing advice.

[01:35:12]

And just like gems, you're like you're like a gumball machine full of gems that are just.

[01:35:18]

I am. I'm a good. Yeah, you are. Yeah. Yeah, you really are. And I think you you don't think anything of it. But then you say these things that I'm like, oh gosh.

[01:35:29]

Like I just have it in my head forever, you know, machine full of prints. Yeah that is true. It's true. Thanks for putting everybody. So I want to talk about a little bit about your book because like you have like this whole separate side career of multiple hilarious books that you've written and you have a new one.

[01:35:51]

Yeah, my my new one is I so I've already mentioned I went to six years of art school and then I stopped drawing entirely because I felt that would be a dilatant. If I were to, I would. All I was concerned with before I switched careers was getting in the Whitney annual. I was very high minded about art and mainly because of social media. I became friends with a bunch of cartoonists and I. I had been reading graphic novels and stuff and I went to a couple of houses where they were doing them a.

[01:36:20]

I looked at the amount of work it was and I went, there's no way I could do that. I even if I could draw the thing, that's the most amount of work I've ever seen anybody do some crazy work.

[01:36:32]

But then I had this idea in a downspout at one point where nothing else was going on. I was cleaning out my office because I really do save. And some of this I think I got this impulse from the Letterman show. I used to feel that everything in the whole world was a possible segment on the show. So and a lot of it did become a segment on the show. So I just save everything I think is funny. And as it turns out, I think almost everything is funny.

[01:36:58]

So I go, I have this office full of crap, you know, just and I found all these diaries and then I had this idea, OK, I'm going to sit down and just read them like they're a piece of literature, because now that I turned into a writer and see whether or not the kid who was writing these things has anything in common with the person who turned into a writer. And and and she doesn't really I mean, she doesn't she doesn't you know, when you think back on your stuff as because I got these diaries, the first of them, I was about 10 and I really am not very much like the person I was when I was ten.

[01:37:32]

I was, I guess, just doing an impression of my mother and of my friends where you are. The object of my friends at the time was to work the word cute into as many consecutive sentences as you could possibly do and also to be as cute as could be conceivably possible. Like the level of cute that you were was really all that you needed in life. So anyway, I thought, well, OK, this might be a funny comic strip where I would just it would be a comic strip of a girl from another era, like a lost era that you haven't heard from in a long time.

[01:38:07]

Just I would illustrate them without judgment. I wouldn't pass judgment on who she was or why she was. Just what she was saying. I would just illustrator, as I remember what that looked like when she was writing. And also the other thing that was funny about the diaries to me is, well, two things. One, they had a lock and a key. Like anything I was saying was writing was so important that it needed to be under lock and key.

[01:38:32]

And and the other was I didn't know what you were supposed to put in a diary. So I wrote down everything that I did. I just listed everything I ate and everything I watched on TV and every movie I saw. And every time we had a Girl Scout meeting, I said what we did. And and so it was really interesting to me when I sat and read it and I had forgotten a lot of the stuff because as it turns out, I don't know about any of you guys.

[01:38:56]

If you had said to me fifth grade, I would have had a sort of a black and white photo in my head of the classroom and the teacher and then maybe a kid or two.

[01:39:06]

And then truly, we just were speaking about this. I was saying that I, I remember like eight days of school, but she said that really resonated with me just now was that I really appreciate you saying that you read those diaries and you didn't cast any judgment on that version of yourself. Right. Which I think is so powerful because I mean, like I think that we will think about like something we did in like fifth grade. It'd be like, oh, my God, why?

[01:39:34]

Why would I do that? Well, and now I need to add that at some point I started drawing myself into the frame with the girl so I could give her a lecture because you're.

[01:39:44]

Well, you're that's really your new self. You're right. You're the current current. So that's just my favorite part.

[01:39:52]

That's my favorite part of it, Meryl, because you said that you you said that you grew up with, like a very judgmental mom, which is like reflected in the book. And I almost feel like you kind of this is the sound, so woo. But I almost feel like through writing the graphic novel, you parented your little self.

[01:40:08]

Well, you know, I didn't like I started drawing myself into it just because I didn't really see how I could present the stuff and not say something about it. Like from fourth grade to sixth grade.

[01:40:19]

I was in love with a Nazi right there. Have to be there. Yes. Yeah, there has to be some commentary on it. So I really love even though I mean, yeah, the Nazi guy, I was in love with him for two years.

[01:40:34]

He was doing the German salute. When I would walk into the room, he was going, Heil Hitler. And I didn't think that he was Jew baiting me. I thought he was just paying attention to me. I was such an idiot. I still I still can't believe it. That was the point at which I started writing myself into the frame and just going now I know you're stupid.

[01:40:53]

I thinking here, just so I of course, I realized later that if I had had a chance to talk to myself myself, the kid would have just been going, you don't know everything you think. You know everything.

[01:41:06]

Yeah, that's how I was. And then I once I started doing that, I realized that you have to make a story out of your life. I don't know about any of you, but my life didn't feel like an act one. Act two. Read to me so much as just random stuff, so I had to provide a sort of a story for myself, so I assembled one that I didn't know was there. And now, weirdly, I see my life that way.

[01:41:34]

You strung a necklace from like a random pile of pearls. Exactly.

[01:41:38]

That's what that's what I had to do. But I didn't see it for a pretty long time.

[01:41:42]

It was so worth it because it's really very funny. Did you find it cathartic or therapeutic at all to sort of go through these moments in your life and make sense of them?

[01:41:53]

No, I that was not so much as I was really happy to be drawing again. I put down drawing all that time. And I'm here to tell you that, you know, you all know about the left brain of the right brain stuff. Yeah. And the left brain is pretty much the business side of things. And the organizational charts and the math and writing. Writing is on that side and then the other arts are on the right side, which is intuitive and fun, which is why artists and musicians are having a lot more fun.

[01:42:26]

And it's hard to write.

[01:42:30]

Yeah, but it's so worth at the time that you spent doing the art, it's really because it's really, really funny, but it's also really touching, which is something that you told me once that, like a lot of people can be funny, but if you can work in something that gets at someone's heart, I think about your life story.

[01:42:50]

Oh, my God. You you better write it and you really better.

[01:42:55]

OK, maybe that's it, Casey. Yeah.

[01:42:57]

I have been telling her she needs to make a career pivot ish, like still. Right.

[01:43:03]

But I think that she needs to not be focusing on talk variety right now and she should write her scripted show and like it should maybe that's.

[01:43:13]

I thought maybe it was I thought maybe it was your life story.

[01:43:18]

Maybe what she should write is is isn't a script either either. I mean, if a script is easier and you know more about it later, it is a script that you just start writing it. Maybe it's a novel. Yeah, I wrote a couple of novels that were very hard for me to write. It's much harder for me to write than it is to write essays. But you know how I figured out how to write a novel? I mean, it's weird how you find your way through anything.

[01:43:40]

I'm going to tell you it comes from moon zapper of all people who was writing a novel. I was doing standup with her. I was in this thing, the cabaret, for years and years and years. Yeah, it's all comedy. And and I was on a show with her and I said, what are you up to now? And she said, Well, I just wrote a novel. I mean, how and how in the world do you write a novel?

[01:44:02]

I would never know how to write a novel. And she said, All right, well, how about if you think about it like this, it's a series of essays each eight pages long, and they're like 12 of them. That makes sense. Oh, OK.

[01:44:19]

Broke it into bite sized pieces of other sort and I went home and went, OK, well, now I know what to do. You have to just think of them as chapters if you can't think of a novel, but you can think of a chapter where we're all writing novels now I and I can't wait.

[01:44:36]

That's where the money is.

[01:44:37]

Novels, right. I Merrill, I can't thank you enough for joining us and talking about all the pivots. And I said, as I said to Meryl right when we started, I am a fan of a graphic novel, but I never read them. I've literally only read two in my writing.

[01:44:53]

And just that they exist. You mean and you just I guess but I obviously got this because we were going to be talking to you and I know you are. And Casey speaks so highly of you as well. And I'm really I just was I really love this book. So I'm going to give you.

[01:45:07]

It's really beautiful then, OK? I'm going to tell you the name. Roz Chast wrote a book about her parents called Why Can't We Talk About Something More Pleasant? That was me. Lynda Barry is Linda Barry. Most gut wrenching, funny stuff you ever read. It just puts you into something is painful, but wisely observed childhood in a way that is astonishing. And then maybe Pond Will Roby Millhone wrote a budget a couple of books about being a waitress when she was in art school that I thought were remarkable and OK, well, I'm going to go write a novel now.

[01:45:46]

Eight pages at a time. I do it. That's all we got. Tell it.

[01:45:52]

Thank you so much for spending time with us. I just think you're the best. Everybody follow Meryl on Twitter. She's hilarious. Get her book. It's called We Saw Scenery. Get It for Everybody for a Gift. Coming up. Send it to everyone.

[01:46:06]

By the way, I named it. We saw scenery because that was how I described when I was a kid at least three occasions. Everything that wasn't me. Where we go, we went to the Florida Keys. Scenery, I know it's so it's just such a perfect book and everybody read it and then hit us up to talk about it because we've all read it and we love it.

[01:46:33]

Well, thank you so much for having me. That was fun.

[01:46:39]

Well, you guys know, I've talked about how much I loved working with Warners, but that's because I love wearing Warner's bras and I have been for a long time because they offer real solutions for real women. They've been supporting women for over one hundred and forty years.

[01:46:59]

They really know their stuff and how to hold your stuff up comfortably from there. Her new model, corset in eighteen eighty one to the introduction of the bra cup sizes in nineteen thirty five. We have Warners to thank for that. They have underarmed smoothing solution that was first sold in twenty fourteen. They've always just been creating real solutions for the issues voiced by real women of the time and what to us as women want and need right now. Support and comfort.

[01:47:31]

I mean I need both of those things. I need them from my bras and I generally in general, just in general.

[01:47:39]

And Warners is amazing because they're not afraid to talk about issues that we face. They make comfortable solutions, their led design and run by women, which is incredible. And you can say so long to your problems, it will never not make you laugh.

[01:47:59]

I love it styles you love. It's made for comfort and support. You can shop Warner's now at Wal-Mart.com best of Warner's you can shop Warner's now at Wal-Mart.com slash best of Warner's.

[01:48:18]

Listen, I don't know about you, I probably, you know, the last four years haven't slept a lot, it's been tough. You know, it's been tough to get a full night's sleep. And I thought it was because of what's going on in the world. Turns out it was just my terrible mattress.

[01:48:38]

Well, thanks to Hilux, I took a little quiz.

[01:48:43]

I upgraded my mattress, and now I'm sleeping through the night sleeping like a baby. Hard af. That's how I'm sleeping now. It's kind of wild.

[01:48:56]

Sometimes you think like you don't think that much about your mattress, but you literally spend one third of your life lying on your mattress.

[01:49:03]

People who don't invest in mattresses. And like, here's the thing that's wonderful about Hilux. You know, it's definitely in the affordable category.

[01:49:16]

And, you know, because you're listening to this, we're going to give you a deal at the end of this, but. Basically, you need to invest in the thing that you spend a third of your life on. That's what I that's what I say. I love this helix. I sleep on my side. I'm a side, back, side, side to the back to the side sleeper. I move around a lot. And I liked that little quiz.

[01:49:47]

Did you take the quiz? Yes, I loved it. I thought it was great.

[01:49:52]

I mean, everybody is unique. And look, Helix knows that this is their job. They have several different mattress models to choose from their soft medium fur mattresses, mattresses that are great for cooling you down if you are a hot sleeper. I'm not. But I know people who are and even a helix plus mattress for plus sized folks. Is that how you say, folks, just kidding. I just know what it is now, the delivery and the setting up was super easy and very fast and it's really supportive, but also soft.

[01:50:27]

And I am like sleeping. I'm sleeping great. Yeah, the kids is great because, you know, a mattress is a little bit of an investment. And so it's scary to think that you're guessing when you take the quiz, it tells you the mattress that you need. Then it comes and it's correct. It's amazing. Yeah. So he likes sleep dotcom best. That's where you're going to go. Take that two minute sleep quiz. They're going to match you to a mattress.

[01:50:55]

It'll give you the best sleep of your life. They have a 10 year warranty.

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You get to try it out for one hundred nights risk free. I'm only on like night twenty three and I'm all right. I already am in. They'll even pick it up for you if you don't love it. But you are going to love it, I promise. So they're offering this is the deal that I was talking about. Two hundred dollars off all mattress orders and two free pillows for our listeners at Helix Sleep. Dotcom slash best. Don't sleep on a Stargell mattress.

[01:51:28]

You deserve better. I want more for you. Give yourself an upgrade. Helix Sleep Dotcom slash best.

[01:51:40]

I just love her, I love her so great.

[01:51:44]

You know what given to us, you know what really struck me about her or this podcast? How many people that have been on the podcast that said that their hopes and dreams centered around getting to work on Saturday Night Live that have now it's like every other guest.

[01:52:00]

It's wild. This is what I really want to have Paula Pell on this podcast, because she told me, you know, we're doing that like falling in love with you business that people have to do in casts.

[01:52:13]

Yes. Or writers rooms like when you start a show, right. Hollywood break, you have to fall in love with your colleague. Hollywood break. If you guys don't fall in love and also find a common enemy and we are going to work, it's not going to crumble.

[01:52:28]

And guys, guess what you guys do? We got it. We got both.

[01:52:36]

I'm not going to tell you who the enemy is yet. It's not a cast member.

[01:52:39]

And that's the group. Yeah, it's a group chat thing.

[01:52:44]

So anyway, but Paula and I and Sarah, while we were on, like, the just the three of us, we're working one day and we were on lunch and we're sitting six feet apart from each other, although it's like so weird and confusing because it's like we take our masks off and we're like literally in each other's faces.

[01:53:05]

But then they're like. You have to still when you're not working on six feet apart. Well, I guess so. Like, we're we're trying to limit our exposure.

[01:53:14]

But viral load, yeah, it's all about viral. OK, ok. OK, so now I'm back on board. I'm back and forth.

[01:53:20]

And so we were sitting six feet apart eating our lunches and like, you know, falling in love and telling stories.

[01:53:27]

And Paula told me how, like her Saturday Night Live journey, like how she got hired as a writer on SNL. And we truly need to have her on to talk about her career journey to talk about Pivot's like the woman is one giant pivot like is fascinating.

[01:53:43]

And she's also kind of weirdly unsung, I think in the SNL universe, you know, people are just starting to know who she is. And that's wild to me because she's been out there.

[01:53:54]

While I think I think part of what ends up happening, especially with SNL, is that if you're not. A writer performer, right, kind of don't get the accolades that the writer performers get because they're kind of the face of the operation. But because post SNL, she's worked so much as a performer now.

[01:54:16]

Yeah, also wildly, I found out. We were talking about early jobs, she did these commercials when I was in high school, before she was on SNL that I fully like, they were not syndicated, but they were regional, that she did these like different regional commercials for the lotto.

[01:54:38]

And I remember it so like it was like from when I was in middle school and high school and I was like, oh, my God, you're the lottery woman playing the the like organ and singing like I remember it insanely. It's like vivid in my head anyway.

[01:54:57]

All right. Well, let's get to a letter. Sketch comedy.

[01:55:00]

Friends, hang in there, OK? Busy. H.A. and Casey, I'm really loving the podcast so far. You three are some of the most genuine and pure people I've listened to. That's nice. So nice. Recently I've been feeling alone. I have a small, close number of friends I've known since high school. As you've all noticed, people are over this pandemic. These people include my friends. They proceeded to live life completely normally.

[01:55:27]

This includes going out to eat inside Iraq, traveling and having larger gatherings.

[01:55:35]

They all know how I feel, which is I'm not going to go inside a restaurant or to a large gathering until there is a vaccine. So I'm never invited or talked to as much. I feel more isolated than ever. And one of my closest friends just rolls her eyes at the mention of the pandemic. I was considering sending my friend a message about an idea I had about bonfires and telling ghost stories. But I just saw the Instagram story about all of them out together last night at a crowded bar.

[01:56:04]

And I feel kind of like a dumb ass if I stand up because it seems desperate. I don't know what to do. I feel like when this is over, I won't really have any friends left. I'm Jessica. Oh, Jessica. It's making me sad, Jessica. I know. But also my gut instinct is, fuck them. Many friends left because they might know. I say fuck them, because even if that is the life they want to lead, like, I don't think that completely rolling her eyes at her feelings or thoughts or opinions is appropriate.

[01:56:37]

Like if you disagree perfectly fine. But like making her feel bad about not wanting to catch a virus that's killed two hundred thousand people is super fucking bogus. Like, that's my gut instinct.

[01:56:48]

But I think Casey will be nicer now. I was going to say like that, that isn't cool. So you don't want someone that's like dismissive of you and your concerns and your anxieties, like, that's not a good friend. And if you don't feel comfortable being like, hey, why are you rolling your eyes at like a thing that is, you know, concerning me, then? You know, I think you do have to kind of take a look at that friendship.

[01:57:13]

What sucks is that it seems like it's the majority of your friendships are just like going in a different direction. Yeah, I mean, look, I think that I don't know your age, but I'm going to guess it just based on this.

[01:57:30]

I mean, I would think that you're probably in your 20s, early 30s and.

[01:57:39]

And I got to be honest with you, sometimes your friends change in your mid twenties, late 20s, early 30s and people do different, you have different priorities.

[01:57:50]

You have different things, like you just see things a little bit like the people they used to, like, really get down with and like.

[01:57:57]

It just isn't, and now something just shifts, we can grow at different things in different directions.

[01:58:04]

Let's see what we can think of for Jessica to do.

[01:58:07]

Jessica, first of all, the bonfire sounds super fun and great local to you. I would be at that bonfire and I would be sitting 10 feet away from you so that you felt comfortable. You know, like that's not you're not a dumb ass for thinking of an idea like that.

[01:58:23]

It's spooky. It's so perfect. It's the perfect time. I really like that, too.

[01:58:29]

So I actually think you shouldn't. Throw that idea away and be insecure about it just because they're all you're just that's just offering an option. It's offering something else to do, you know, and if they want to, like, sit on top of each other and make out at the bonfire, they can you can sit ten, you know, six feet away and feel safe. And that's OK, too. I say you pitched the idea. I also say in the interest of like, you feeling OK about where you're at?

[01:59:01]

I mean, if there's someone that you're really close with. Maybe you have a talk with that person, maybe it's worth it to have like a I'm feeling X, I'm feeling this way about it and I absolutely am feeling like I'm not getting and I'm feeling like I'm getting judgment from you. And if you feel like I'm judging you, I might be. But I'm also just scared and, you know, like just being really vulnerable with how you're feeling with maybe one of the people who you're really close with might help you guys like.

[01:59:38]

Get closer. It's hard to start the conversation, but once you do, you're like it's so freeing because then you know exactly where you stand. And so if you're your fear is like I feel like I'm not going to have any friends left like you fully just say that, like I feel like I'm losing all of my friends. And when this is over, I'm not going to have any friends left. I want to still be a part of your life.

[02:00:01]

But like, I need to be able to feel comfortable and like I'm not endangering myself as well. And I think that what you really need is like to be as open and honest with with the people closest to you as you can to just voice how you're feeling so that. They can either be like. Oh, my God, we love you, let's bonfire it up. And we do marshmallows, is that. You know what I mean? Whatever.

[02:00:29]

Yeah, I. But I am sending you so much love, Jessica, because I just also feel like I hear and you're a little.

[02:00:37]

Absolutely. You're not alone. You're not alone. I'm not alone. We're going through something weird, you know.

[02:00:46]

You're just, you know, tell tell them what you told us. Yes, and see what have them this year or just tell them to download and subscribe so that we can keep doing it. Yes, we do love you guys and we do want you to ask people to subscribe and download and share our podcast.

[02:01:11]

And you can email us at busy doing her best at Gmail dot com. You can follow our Instagram. BP is doing her best. I'm busy, Philipps, that's Casey St. Onge and Shintaro Jackson. I hope you have a really.

[02:01:28]

Lovely week, next time we talk, next time we talk, guys, we may or may not be, we may or may not know who the next president is, but that's real fat Mike.

[02:01:42]

I'm fainting, just talking.

[02:01:44]

I mean, I know my question is, do we take, like, an overunder on how they try to fuck with. I'm so scared. I'm saying we flip Texas and it ain't no question that's what I'm putting out in the universe. That's why that's how bad I want it to be. Like, I'm just going to say it's going to happen. It's going to happen big and it's going to happen good. And if I'm wrong, that's fine.

[02:02:05]

But I'd rather be big wrong. That's the energy. I'm putting it out. I want I want you to be so right.

[02:02:10]

If you haven't voted yet, you guys please exercise your hard won right to vote.

[02:02:15]

And the next time we talk, hopefully it'll be in a sweet, sweet, sweet release from this hill.

[02:02:23]

I'm vegan. What are we going to do? We got like we all have to have ice cream.

[02:02:29]

Well, you know, I'm also confusing as we have to record the podcast the day the like on Election Day, so we won't know.

[02:02:38]

Oh, damn, fuck that.

[02:02:39]

Let's just do a live podcast. We better look into it.

[02:02:45]

Then why don't we why don't we just record it on Wednesday and released on Thursday, we'll talk to we'll talk to the podcast Bassist's.

[02:02:54]

Well, I'm the boss.

[02:02:57]

I got you in the podcast. Yeah, that's it. That's right. I like to buy you a week ago by a go vote.