What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy. Hello?

Oh my God. I feel like I know you. I know. I know.

I've been so excited to meet you. This is going to be so good.

Do you need anything? No, I've literally helped myself to make free Prosecco from the... Wait, what? I know this. I don't even know.

Guys, I didn't get offered any.

It was in a fridge. I just took it.

You're like, Let's go.

Welcome to London, babe.

Oh, my God. I'm so happy to be here.

What are we at? We're swearing for this pod.

You fucking little dirty cunt. I'm going to slide a dildo up your pod. You can say whatever the fuck you want.

But I wondered, are we going to make drinks or whatever?

Because I know no one offered me a drink.

So I was like, I think... Guys, can we get Alex in for a second?

So apparently Olivia has been drinking without me. Can we have a bottle?

I found in a fridge. I might have paid someone to go to the corner It's upstairs in the fridge. It was four bottles, and I just took a tumbler.

Okay, ready? Yeah, ready. Olivia Atwood. Welcome to Call Her Daddy.

That sentence just gave me chills, by the way. I got goosebumps.

Wait, I love it so much. I'm so happy to be here in your presence.

Really? Yes.

Okay, I'm going to give you a backstory because I'm going to lube you up here. Okay. Okay. Pandemic. I'm sitting in my New York City apartment. I am so bored as we all are. And I'm like, I need to find a TV show that I can go and binge. I need to be here for days on end. And I find Love Island. And I put on my social media and I'm like, what season do I start? Obviously, UK. And everyone I was like, you have to watch three or five. You have to watch three or five. And so naturally, I'm like, I'm starting with three. I click on three. Your beautiful face pops up. And the entire season, I was obsessed. You were so incredible. I was like, I need to interview this girl. I thought this over a year and a half ago to two years ago. So naturally, I flew 5,000 miles so I could sit down with you and interview Olivia Atwood.

This is crazy. This is crazy to me. I've been a fan of the podcast forever. I swear to God, the Instagram, everything. It's wild. Daddy Gang, be nice to me.

Are you kidding me? They are going to be so nice to you. I've actually had people wanting you to come on the show for so freaking long. And I had reached out to your team, and I think we had originally been like, We can just do a Zoom.

I remember this a little bit.

I was like, Are you fucking kidding me? I'm not doing a Zoom with Olivia Atwood.

I hate Zoom as well. It's just not the same.

We can't drink Prosecco. I can't. Let's go back a little bit, okay? Because everyone knows you from Love Island, and you were incredible on it. But before Love Island, young Olivia, not that young, but I'm not saying she's 10 years old doing this, but you were so creepy. You were a grid girl. Yeah. Can you explain what is a grid girl? What was your job? What were you doing?

I was a model, but doing grid girl and promotion stuff to fill the gaps. And I was at this thing we have in the UK called the Touring Car Championship. It's pretty low key, whatever. It was there. It was a miserable fucking day. It was the north of England. I was like, What am I actually doing? Standing here with this sad little flag. Then the Monster Girls were there with another team, and one of the girls approached me and she was like, Would you want to work with us? But when you work with Monster, you can only do Monster. You can't do a bit of this, bit of that. I said, Yeah. Then I started a week after. And I did that solidly for four or five years. I was a monster girl. So it's everything. It's all sporting events, like ski, skate, track, cars, motorbikes. It's crazy.

Obviously, it's a bunch of hot girls, and you're hanging out. And naturally, I can only imagine the parties and the vibes. What is one of the wildest nights out you remember having during that time of your life?

They were It was always wild. The amount of times I turned up on no sleep. I was just a different animal back then. I couldn't do it now. I'd be in a fetal position, like rocking, crying. I could go out all night and then still look hot the next day. It was like, it's like to be that age. It's just the dream. But people always say to me, Oh, the ride is the driver's. But you know what? The thing is, Formula One drivers, motorGP, they don't drink. Really, they don't. They are quite a weird breed. They're not super social. It's a very isolated related sport. So they don't really get involved in partying and stuff. So it was more like I'd end up with the mechanics. I didn't give a shit. If he was down to drink with me and get messy, I was all about it. I didn't care. If you were changing tires earlier, you still have grease on your hands. If you want to go and we'll pound a bottle of Jäger, let's do it. I had no prejudiced. I didn't go shit.

I love that for you so much. Also, I was thinking about it because I've dated athletes before. I know you're engaged to one. And so I'm thinking, I forgot concept. When you're younger, you want to go for these athletes. But it's almost like, wait till you're a little bit older because they don't fucking party. No.

And they're so obviously dedicated to what they're doing and focused and nothing is going to... Just disgusting. I've got to imagine having dedication and self control.

Olivia and I are like, it's so annoying that they won't party with us. I don't comprehend it. I want to get a vibe, Olivia, of how would you describe your date creating life before Love Island? Give it to us.

I had a long-term relationship with... Just this piece of shit. I was with him for four or five years. It was my first real thing. I was doing modeling and I was very obsessed with this relationship. My modeling agency was so done with me because I would flake on things because I just wanted to be with him all the time. I didn't even care to have my own money. I had no drive. It was a really good lesson for I learned. I'm so glad I had that relationship at that young age because it taught me everything that I needed to know. Do you know what I mean? To have your own money, to have your own independence. I just was obsessed and I was flaking on jobs. He used to do this thing where he'd break up with me on the Friday and be like, I'm going, whatever. I'd be all anxious and I'd be a mess. Then on Monday, he'd come back and be like, Oh, no, let's work out. He just picked me up and dropped me all the time. Monster actually gave me a lifeline at that time that I needed. It's weird.

Everything in my life, I feel like with Love Island, Monster, it's like the universe has thrown me this life vest. At that time, it's like... Because doing Monster at first, when I realized how much travel it was, I was a bit like, I don't want to travel and be away from him because I was obsessed for some reason. It's like doing that and seeing the world and meeting new people opened my eyes to like, Oh, my God, there's this massive world at that. You've made your world so freaking small. For what reason? It opened my eyes to how dire the situation I was in was. Then that broke down for a good reason. But then following that, my dating was pretty erratic. I just used to go from one guy to the next. I jump in really feet first. I am all about that. I want them to be obsessed with me. I want to be obsessed with them. I want to get tattoos on the second date. I want them to move in. They could come to the second date with my name tattered on their head, and I'd be like- I'm what? Yeah, I'm literally, Do you want to go upstairs?

My friends are like, That's insane. I'm like, I love Yeah. So I love that obsessive being in love. So I was always going once or next chasing that feeling.

Sometimes you have to go through those relationships. I don't know anyone that hasn't had that one obsessive relationship that borders unhealthy. And it takes you having distance and space from someone to then be like, oh, my God. And it may literally be you going away for your job a bunch. And then all of a sudden you're like, wait, this shit is not healthy, whether you're viewing your friends or the people around you. And you all of a sudden are like, I need to look at this differently.

At one point, I don't even think I had my own debit cards. It was ridiculous. I literally, when I say pulled the rug from under my feet every time he left me, I was under weight and I was crying. And I was It was so unhealthy. Learning that at that age, my late teens, early 20s, was, I think, a really important lesson to learn. I remember how I felt, and I thought, I'm never going to let myself be in that situation Again, if Brad walked out tomorrow, it would hurt. I wouldn't get over it in a day, but I could still get in my car that I own, drive somewhere, get my own house. I'm good. I'd be heartbroken, but I'm good. I'm not going to be on my knees like I was with that situation.

I've been in one of those two, and I think it's like, Wait, if he left tomorrow, what happens? Am I okay? Again, heartbroken is different than, Wait, I literally have nowhere to live, no money, no friends. My family is gone because I distance myself. Checking those moments, I think is good.

I was distance from everyone, friends, family, completely isolated. Monster was like, it threw me a lifeline. I had the best... I traveled the world. This is my thing that I say is people get on about grid girls or ring girls and this antifeminism. We've had men telling us what to do. Now we've got other women telling us what to do. If you feel empowered doing something and you're safe and you're in an environment like Monster is a very safe gig for me, who's anyone else to tell me? That empowered me, changed my life. It threw me a lifeline. That is amazing. But at the same time, I did it for four or five years, and I got to the end of my thing with it. When you're working for a brand like that, there's not much individuality. You have to have your hair a certain way, your nails a certain way, do this, that, the other. And towards the end, because I felt like I was outgrowing it a little bit, I started pushing the boundaries, burning some bridges, just acting out because I started to be like, No, I'm going to come with red nails just for the fucking hello.

Right.

That's actually really cool, though, for you to hear about the whole concept of how Monster helped you, because I agree. I feel like so many people are so quick, especially with whatever women are doing. If anything has to do with your looks, they're like, It's degrading. You're not empowering yourself. And it's like, hold on. Why don't you ask me how I feel first? Thank you.

And I feel like the thing is, how do I say this without it coming off really bad? Obviously, I think of myself as somewhat intelligent, but some girls, they just do want to do their fucking hair and look pretty, and that might be their thing in life. And why can you tell them that that's not good enough or that's not empowering? I'm not telling the girls at NASA, You can't work there because I'm not clever enough to work there. Let people do their thing.

Thank you for sharing that.

You're so welcome.

Love Island. Okay, so we're going to go through a little bit of that. For people that don't know, also, I just want you to know, I only watch Love Island UK. I think it's entertaining. I haven't watched the Australia one, have you?

I dipped in a little bit, but not properly. Is it as good?

I don't think anything is as good as UK. It's not. It's just not. Okay, so for anyone who has never seen Love Island, how do you describe the concept of the show?

It's good-looking girls and guys on an island dating. It's a game show. There's money at the end, but essentially, it's like you get coupled up and you have challenges thrown at you. It's a test. It's who can find a real connection, a connection real enough to take you to the final and maybe win that money. Although it's weird with Love Island, when you're in there, no one really gives a shit about the money. At all. Yeah, it's like you don't even need the money at the end. The money is just a thing, but it... Yeah, no one focuses on that in a weird way.

I love that, though, because I was thinking about it. I feel like Love Island is so much more accepted and loved than consider the bachelor. It's not realistic that after six weeks, you're going to get married. I love how Love Island is like, Are we going to hit it off? And are we going to leave here together as a couple? That's so much more realistic. And obviously being in a house together and there's alcohol and there's nothing else to do other than- I mean, alcohol, there's two glasses. No, but it is... Wait, would they limit you? Are you joking? Wait.

Are you joking? Why don't I know? Two glasses. On my series, I can't speak about my series. We were all like, balls to the wall crazy. So we might have been limited more than others. But we had two glasses of wine a night or beer.

That's shocking because I didn't realize none of you were hammered.

So all that stuff I'm doing, I'm basically sober. I'm just...

I'm like, she must be hammered when the fight scene happens. No, I didn't even have my drink yet.

And then I went outside and the producer said, You're not getting anything tonight. I was like, oh, you're joking. I was like, Honestly, I swear. I'm sober. That makes it even better. Can you imagine everyone licked it up? It'd be like fight clan.

No, it actually would have been probably not even airable because it would have gotten so wild.

The reason is, they said, because I question them every day, it's the point where they were like, If you ask about it again, you're going to get a written warning, is what I was told in the beach hat. Because I argued it every day, is that the show is... Because it's about dating, about love. They don't want people doing stuff driven by alcohol. And the next day, waking up being like, Oh, I don't actually like him. I only snogged him because I was drunk. Because it's not that show. It wouldn't make They want people kissing and being in bed together because they want to, not because they're drunk.

Which is so different, I feel like, than real life, though, because let's be real.

I mean, I've gone from living on my own since I was 21, doing what I want to being told, you got two glasses. It was real hard for my head to deal with.

I feel like I would feel that way, too. Okay, so that's a really good insider info I did not know. So when you got there, in your mind and your experience, what was the atmosphere and energy on that set?

Series 3 was the one that blew up, right? We had Series 1 and 2 in the UK that were popular. I was meant to go on Series 2. This is the tea.

Wait, give us how you were cast. Tell me the tea.

It's really an eye-rolling, nauseating way. But I was approached on Instagram. They DM me. Series 2, they DM me. I'd only watched little bits of Series 1. It was popular, but really, no one was really talking about it. I was doing the monster thing. I'd started a thing off with this guy. He was like a rider, whatever. It was like a motecross thing and I was all about him. We'd done the tattoos and stuff after the second day. It was sweet. And then- You actually did that? Yeah, I've got it still now. It's a bit faded, but we did the whole- Can we get rid of that? He's the most leg-back guy. He's practically horizontal. He's got the BDE. Is that what Kim says? He's got that big dick energy. He couldn't give a shit. What is the tattoo up? It's just his initial. I did it two weeks in.

Would you care if Brad had that?

I don't think so. Really? I I would have cut it out of him in his sleep.

You're like, No, I wouldn't care. I would have just slice it off during his time of sleeping.

He wakes up, What are you doing?

Nothing. Also, for everyone listening, Brad is Olivia's fiancé. Yeah, that's my long-suffering fiance.

Okay, great.

So to meet this guy, you get to have two second dates.

Yeah, we're all into it. They They approached me. They were like, you know. We were just dating, so I was like, I'll see it through. Went to meet interviews, whatever. Then they offered me on. I was basically carrying it on as if I was going to do it. Then it got to literally, I'm leaving in two weeks, and I was like, oh, I don't know. I got a really good thing going. I like this guy a lot. This show, is it a bit like, I've seen all the the program images with the colorful backgrounds, and no one had really thought it was cool yet. I was like, I'm doing something that I think is quite cool. With this guy... So anyway, I just ghosted. I just blocked everyone from basically ITV.

And were they like, hello?

Yeah, they were calling. I just panicked, blocked everyone. I was like, It's going to carry on in my life. And then basically, I was with him for a good nine months or something. Anyway, he cheats on me, sleeps with this girl. I go like- How did you find out? I had just a sixth sense. I can't remember now the exact- You just knew in your gut. I just knew. And I just... Honestly, I've mellowed so much. I just went I was crazy.

Wait, what did you do? You have to tell someone, Call Her Daddy Olivia.

I was just writing on my Instagram, like wild stuff, like ugly pictures of him. Like, look at this piece of shit that cheated on me. I was just like, stuff that is a shame because I could never do that now because people would be like, Oh, you can't. I just really enjoyed being a nobody. Just say what I wanted. I was calling up his work nonstop. I was just insane. I was just literally... My mom, we were shopping in London when I found out my mom's wrestling me in self, just trying to get the phone out of my hand because I'm doing so much damage. She's like, You need to stop. You need to stop. I'm like, I can't. And she's like, It's all for the better. I'm like, No, it's not. I'm like, How many of you has done this to me?

No, I get that feeling, though. You're like, he needs to feel a little bit of the hurt that I felt. And so I get that.

I just went. I reindulged myself. I treated myself to a proper meltdown. I was smashed at 4:00 PM, rolling around London, just ringing up his work. Just fucking crazy. Rang his mom. Just everything. I'm like, your son's a piece of shit. And she's like, oh.

Good luck with life.

And then I saw this advert. I swear, again, it's like a whole universe moment. I saw this advert Casting for Loveind. It was on a bus stop or something, two Seasons 3. I thought, I should have done that last year. I go on my phone, I find these people from Loveind, I unblock a couple of them. I just rang them up, don't I? Just rang them up. Shout out to Lewis. He took the call. I was like, Hi. I was like, Do you remember me? He was like, Yes, you're the girl that disappeared. I was like, Well, I would love to have a chance to go on the show. I can't even keep a straight face saying it. He was like, I don't know what the execs are going to say. They're probably going to tell you to take a run and jump. He's like, But I will speak to them. It's quite late in the day for... They think they'd already cast most people. I just hung out. I was just then got all my feelings like, What am I doing? I don't want to do Monster anymore. This guy is loser. And he called me back the next day and he's like, You can come on if you leave in two weeks.

So literally, that was it. I went on a mad Zara haul, other brands are available, and just got all the bikinis, dresses, and two weeks later, I was gone.

So once you got there and you were hanging, what was, do you think, the biggest key to success on Love Island?

So my thing going into it, and I'm really open about this, when I had nervous feelings about going in. I thought the worst thing you can do on these shows, I think, is go in, be booted out in week one, and no one even remembers you were there. What was the point? I've left Monster. They're not going to have me back. I've burnt all those bridges. I've left a modeling agency. I've screwed off the guy that I was seeing. I felt like, Am I I'm going to do this. I have to do this properly, and I'm going to make sure everyone knows that I'm in the building. That was my main thing. I thought to myself, When I get in there, I'm going to forget those cameras. I'm just going to do it how I would live life. But it's crazy. I know everyone says it, but after 24 hours, you really forget. You really forget. You're being watched. Oh, my God. There were certain members in that villa who maybe were slightly more canny and were more self-aware. I've always been unself-aware. I'd like to say, if you put me in now, I know that they get how many billions of yours a night that I would behave a different way.

I probably wouldn't because I can't. I cannot be anything but a hot mess.

I always talk about on my show, Guys, self-awareness is so key. And Olivia is walking in be like, I am so unself-aware. Can you give us examples of what you mean by that? Because you don't see... I get what you're saying of the hot mess. You look great put You're together right now. You're speaking eloquently. But what do you mean by your unself-aware?

I hate this expression, but wear your heart on your sleeve. I'm very like, if I feel something or I don't like something, I don't like someone, I can't help but Either my face says it or my mouth says it. One of them is going to say it. I can't be a wallflower despite trying at times. It's like verbal diarrhea. I feel like I'm literally chewing my lips and then it's... I just...

Did you get in trouble for a lot when you were younger?

Oh, my God. My mom used to say to me, What is this? I'm ADHD, which I know now, which explains a lot. But at school, I used to do the weirdest shit and then get in so much trouble. And then I'd cry on the way home. My mom'd be like, Why did you do that? And I'd be like, I don't know. I don't know.

Okay, well, made for really great reality TV. Okay, so wrapping up Love Island. When you look back, what did you learn about yourself during or after filming that entire experience?

If I I watch her now, I watch myself on Love Island. I was quite an angry. My back was up. I was looking for an argument all the time. I think I've mellowed. I think there's nothing I would have done differently because that's who I was at that time. And hindsight and age, I'm a lot more relaxed now. I wouldn't get wound up about those things, but that's who I was then. And also, it's like everything that has happened in my life is as a result. If I'd gone in there, medicated in the corner, not talking, then I wouldn't be sitting here with you now.

I think that's such a good answer because I relate to that where I started my show and I was 10 times crazier saying shit that probably maybe wasn't at the... Now I look back, I'm like, I would never fucking say that now. I don't know if I would say that about a guy or a girl now, but I think it's like, that's growth, right? And people are like, no, you can't change. I'm not saying I changed. I just grown. And I have a different outlook on the way I was when I was younger. And there's different reasons why you did what you did on that show. And if you went in there, you'd still be loud and rowdy, but you wouldn't maybe come off in certain ways like you did in the past because you don't have that baggage of those men fucking you over like you did when you were going in. Yeah. Congratulations of the new docuseries, Getting Filthy Rich.

Yeah.

First of all, I just have to ask you, how does that even feel?

This is huge. I'm already having massive imposter syndrome, even being here with you. But that just tipped me over the edge. I now feel like I'm sitting in someone else's spot.

No, no, own it because you're a boss. It's incredible. So I want to just explain. I got an advanced copy of the first episode. And so to anyone listening, this show follows Olivia on her journey as she participates in various ways people use their body to make money on the Internet. In the episode I saw, Olivia dives into the world of OnlyFans. She creates a profile and interviews a number of content creators to see what really goes on behind the scenes with people making money on OnlyFans. Okay.

I have to check myself.

Let's check ourselves. How do we look? Okay. Had you ever considered doing doing OnlyFans prior to creating the series?

Not in a serious way. I think I'd thought about it because I had heard this thing people kept saying to me, Oh, you should make this photo that you pose. You could make loads of money on OnlyFans. Kept hearing that again and again and again. So I was in tree thinking, Is it as easy as that? Right. So that was more, I think. I think take me back pre Love Island, like Grid Girl Olivia, she probably would have done OnlyFans. Do you know what I mean? But me right now, where I was, I was more than intrigued as it is as simple as it sounds.

It sounds way too good to be true. Totally. Is OnlyFans what started it for you? Or how did the show come about for you?

I think I was really looking to get into docuseries world. Obviously, being from reality TV, you can be obviously put in a box. And I'm happy with that box. I actually love reality TV, and I've got no desire to be like, It's the worst thing, and get me out that box. But I was I'm interested. I feel like on a good day when I'm sober, I've got a quite decent brain. I can articulate myself to a certain degree. So I thought I definitely have more springs to the table. So yeah, we were talking with different networks, different ideas. And when this one came up, I thought, That's a really good fit. And I'm genuinely fascinated. So it's going to be like, exploring that area is going to be a genuine interest.

Absolutely. And I feel like, I know I only saw the first episode, but it translates. I was talking about it with my team, and were like, this is exactly what you were meant to do in terms of, I don't know many people that could have handled it as gracefully and respectfully, but also made it so fun as you. Because it is a sensitive topic, and definitely another woman needs to be in that room, but also someone that's willing to see both sides and be a part of the experience. I thought it was really cool. So you get on OnlyFans in episode one. What was the most difficult aspect of being on OnlyFans?

The 24-hour aspect of it. I really thought it was something where the way it was sold to me from people I spoke to was, you make the profile, you stick the pictures on, and the money just comes in. That's not how you make money. The money is made in the DMs, the constant communication. It's like the girls that are making the big money, they are on the site 24 hours a day. Talking to these people, and when you don't respond because they've paid to be on your page, they just hound you. Question mark, question mark. You're like, Where are you? I was quite taken back by that at first.

I was also because, again, I think that's why I loved how you're peeling this layer back of everyone listening, if you don't have OnlyFans, we all have this idea in our head, right? Of like, you're right, the girl has the profile. She posts some photos, she gets money. And in this episode, it was so fascinating. And everyone needs to go watch it because it really gives this inside look of how hard these women are working. When you were like, wait, so what would happen if a guy is going to pay you $1,000 to sext him and you're out? And she was like, I would go to the bathroom. And I was like, Oh, shit. It never stops. And I could see you were like, Wait, this is giving me anxiety having this many messages on my phone and these people thinking they have a claim over me of like, Hi, you owe me something. Did you feel empowered while on OnlyFans?

I don't think I did because I had the account, obviously, for documentary purposes, so it was my own, but I also, I couldn't take ownership over it because I was trying to find that line of I'm using it and I'm seeing how it works to do justice to this show. But also it's not mine in the sense where I'm going to engage in... I'm not going to say nudes out because they'd be out there forever. It was hard for me to land in a place where it felt like I was in control, I guess, because these people subscribe, they want nudity. They don't want bikini pictures. That's the biggest myth, I think. I think if you're already famous, whatever, you can monetize your bikini underwear pictures for a certain amount of time, a limited amount of time, and then you're going to have to do more, or it's just going to die out, or you're going to be earning not enough to live off.

I think that's also insightful because I feel like I've heard a lot of people like, Oh, I'm just going to post some of my bikini photos on there, and no one really talks about how it lasts for two seconds, and then people get annoyed. It's like, We'll take your top off, blah, blah, blah. And there's a lot of, it feels like pressure on the site that I don't think a lot of women are prepared for.

A hundred %, I think. The temptation is like, It's crazy The DM start coming through like, £500 for it's a picture of your nipples. And it's like, if you were in a situation where you need £500, how easy would it be just to... And I think there's a disconnect, isn't there, between doing something in real life and doing it with your phone, where you It's like, I could just do it and send it and there's the money, but then it's gone and you can never bring it back. That is interesting. It sounds like I said that with judgment, because you can see what you're... I have no judgment, but I think the danger is that I think for some girls, it's absolutely great and they kill it. Every downside of it, the preconceived notions that they're a whore or they're promiscuous, it's water for ducks back. But for a lot of girls, they can't. They find themselves on this site, and they weren't expecting the pressure, and they maybe succumbed to pressure that they weren't going to... They go in there saying, I'm going to do X, Y, Z, and they end up doing more.

And then you have that feeling of regret and shame. And I think that's sad. Totally.

I felt like in the episode, you did a really good job of meeting with a multitude of people showing the difference. There were some people in this episode that had such a niche way about going about it, whether it was the fitness woman that was doing fitness and then sometimes naked while doing fitness. And it's like, she had her angle, and she felt, I think it appeared empowered because she was doing something she loves, which is working out, and then just monetizing the hell out of it. Then there were some other girls that were like, I started, and I just started with just underwear pictures. And then it starts where what is the boundary? And they've crossed it for themselves. And then I'm sure it feels like there's no going back. Did you feel like when you were around all these women, did you feel like they appeared to be empowered by what they were doing?

I think it was a mix, to be honest. I think some very much, yes, and some not so much. It's my thing where I went back to the grid girl thing. It's the whole feminism argument. It's like, who is anyone else to say what empowers someone? If someone's telling me this makes me feel as an empowered woman, more power to you. Totally. Get it, 100%. But I think there were some that I met with, definitely over the other films, the porn episode and Sugar Babies. Again, I meet both sides. I meet people that I can see are really struggling with that lifestyle choice and others that are thriving. I think it's not for everyone. The thing that was going into it in the whole... It's like a cheeky title, How to Get Filthy Rich. But the idea was to see, is it actually that easy? Because we all do it. I do that thing where I'm doing something. I'm like, I'm just going to quit and do OnlyFans. I'm going to do something easy. And then you realize, oh, shit, it's not easy.

Which I think is great, especially for women, that this show is coming out because I do think it's going to put a stop to that comment because I so agree with you. People are like, Oh, fuck this. I'm going to quit my day job and go do OnlyFans. And it's like, I don't think people understand the gravity of that comment because of how much not only goes into it actually physically, but also mentally seeing these women. There's just a lot behind it that I think you did a great job of capturing.

For me, it's like every job right you do in the has this added tax. So if you're... What I do, showing every part of my life has a tax. Instagram has an emotional tax. It makes me feel, sometimes I feel judged, I feel stressed. Or if you work in the city and you're there six days a week, 10:00 at night, you don't see your kids. That's the tax. So does this. This does not come without the downside, the judgment. I think these sites, and you see it in Camgirls episode as well, it's like it is a hiding place for as well to express some pretty weird shit. These girls have to read this stuff, hear this stuff, with no one to really help them break down the terrible things they've either said to them or they asked them to do. Some of the things that I heard were just absolutely shocking. The fact they have to read these messages and then just get on with their day, and how does that then affect their relationship with other straight men in their lives? Because what I think is It's so interesting is this whole online sexual economy debate.

We're all so focused on the girls, the girls who are doing OnlyFans. Like, oh my God, they're the worst. But it's our dad's brothers, colleagues who are buying the shit. No one's worried about them. They're the ones asking for them to do X, Y, stick this up your ass. They're not like these mythical creatures that come up from the sewers. They are the men in our lives.

I love how you're saying that as much as it may pain people. You're right. It's your dad. It's your brother. Because the man doing it is someone's son, is someone's dad, is someone's husband. You know what I mean? But we don't have a problem with them.

We have a problem with the girls providing the content. But we're talking about millions of pounds a year. This isn't like a niche. This is like the majority of men, not all, the majority.

It's really interesting. Talking about cam girls, I was interested because I obviously haven't seen the episode, but can you explain what a cam girl is and how it's different from participating on OnlyFans?

So for me, when we were sitting down going to make the show and we talked about what the episodes would be, I was like, Cam, girls, I think. I don't know if you have it in the States, like Babe Station, the TV channel where they got the phone. I was like, Is that even a thing anymore? It felt very '90s. That's what I thought. It's the thing that I would flick onto when I was younger on the home telly and be like, Oh, my God. But it turns out it's still big money industry. I spent 24 hours at a studio where it's on the phones, but it's also on a webcam. So they log on and they pay to be on the stream and the girls there, and then they can call the phone, the girl will take the phone. So it's like, they can either do it from their home or in the studio, but it's contained to the site. Do you know what I mean?

Did you find that most of those women have OnlyFans or no?

A lot, yeah. Not all, but most. Because it's just a no-brainer. But a lot of the girls who work in the site, they maybe have OnlyFans, and they just like, dip their toe in it because they do the camming, because they like the fact that they log on for a camming shift for five, six hours, and then they go and they leave and it's done. Whereas OnlyFans never leaves you alone. It's constantly on your phone. You never get a break. That's so interesting. They find doing the camming or going to a studio and being a cam girl. It's like, That's work. And then literally, clock off, go home, and they've got kids and normal lives and husbands, and they just leave that. And then the next day, they go back and they go back to work.

That makes sense because the OnlyFans episode, really, again, you guys have to go watch it because you feel how it's an every day, every minute of your life thing, where now I understand. So I'm like, Why would a girl do cam girling? If it's OnlyFans, you can do it from home. There is a boundary. Do you know which cam girls? Obviously, we haven't seen the episode yet, but the idea of it, who would make the most money, what version of camming?

In what sense?

Are there different things that girls do that you can make a different tier in camming?

One thing across all episodes you'll see is this, and I really want to sit down with a clinical a psychologist and pick this apart because it has to be a reason. This feet thing, right? Across every single episode, there's this undercurrent about feet. So the girls in the camming show, the ones who are great at the feet chat, who can dangle the Soleto on their big toe, do all that, they kill it. Because literally, six out of 10 calls will be about feet.

What the fuck is up with men and feet?

I don't know, but I need to get to the bottom of it.

I do, too. We should honestly call us. I'm going to call my therapist right now and be like, Hi, what the fuck is up?

There has to be some connection, something like Freudian nightmare, because all the way through.

Okay, you talk about sugar babies. What was the biggest misconception you had about sugar babies?

That it's always an exchange, maybe for sex for money. I met girls, people might roll their eyes and go, Oh, bullshit. No, these girls are honest with me. There is arrangements where it's not sexual. It's just dinner. Or it's just company, or some of them, it's not even in person, it's just talking, and he might pin them like, 500 quid or whatever. So I thought, who the hell is going to give someone money, do you know what I mean, for nothing, basically?

Oh, yeah. I've heard of people also, I had a friend that did it, and it was just to go to dinner and just to basically be his date. And I'm like, Eventually, is it going to progress to sex? Eventually, they do ask, I think. But for a while, can stay in that gray zone, which again, reminds me of the OnlyFans thing, where you can stay in this gray zone for a little bit of like, I'm comfortable with this, and then someone's going to ask, and then you have to know how to set that boundary for yourself.

A hundred %. And I think one of the girls I've met, she had this arrangement with a guy for three, four years. She's never had sex with him. She said, It's all about your approach. From day one, you set that. It's the way you approach the situation that you approach that guy and you let him know. And I think that's experience, age, everything comes into it. Same with OnlyFans, I think you have to be a very strong person to be like, This is my boundaries, and I'm not going to move. Whereas I think if you approach it and you're not really sure what your angle is, it's easier for someone to maybe coerce you. Totally. Because you don't even know yourself.

But I think what did you find is the hardest thing about being a sugar baby?

I think maybe just living in that limbo land. It's like you don't have boyfriend, but you're not single. Essentially, they are the one handing out the money, so you have to, I guess it depends how much money we're talking. A lot of the girls, it's hard for them to have a normal job and be a sugar baby because some of these guys want them with them all the time. And then I think some of the girls I spoke to, it's great if you've got a great thing going, but if he just drops you like that, you can go from living this unreal lifestyle. That's where it's being smart, getting the allowance, banking taking the money. Where I was like, I think if you're younger and just living life and spending, and then he's just like, Oh, bye. You could be like, I can't afford my apartment. I can't afford my car.

It's a very fine line of thriving and succeeding and using the system and doing your thing with it. But you have to know this takes way more work than we give these women credit for.

They are straight up hustlers. The girls that do it right is an art form at the peak. Like you say, it's like any relationship when you're young or you're not thinking straight, you don't set your boundaries or standards. So that means the standards and the... It's just all a mess. So it's like anything. You have to go in and be like, this is what it is. This is what I want from you. This is what I'm going to give you.

It's like we literally... We need someone that's done this to create a crash course, which I think you're in a way, this is the beginning of it, because by you peeling this layer back, it's giving people that introduction of what the world will be if you're interested in it. I think for a while, there hasn't been that. So women are just blindly going into it because they just have money on the mind, which I so get. Who doesn't? But it's like there's no idea of how far it's going to go and what's going to happen.

Because I think what I love about this show is that it's an immersive documentary, but it has heart and it has humor, and we're not coming at from an angle, whereas I think other shows that I've looked at these subjects are coming from a slightly judgmental. It feels I don't think there's anything wrong with dating someone for financial gain or life experience or whatever it may be for travel. What the hell? If you're two consenting adults, you're not hurting anyone. What does it matter? But I think, like you say, young girls need to... I think this is what this show is nice because it's very balanced. We're not glorifying anything. The girls are really honest. Bonnie, she's like, I'm making 250 grand a month for my best month. But it's a heavy load to carry. It's not just as easy as that. Totally.

I know I haven't watched it yet, and we're all going to see it, but you also experienced the Pornhub world. What was your approach for that episode? Were you nervous?

I was excited. Oh, yes. I was excited. I was like, I actually think I say in the beginning of episode, I've only seen one penis for the last couple of years. I was like, Let's see it. So I was excited to see some willies and just be amongst it. Also, just as someone that's everyone's watched porn, but to actually see how it's made.

Yeah, how was that? What was that like?

Obviously, I went to an orgy one time. I'm giggling because When it's right there in the flesh, but it's all so different to how you imagine it to be. I learned the cum shot on the thumbnails on the website, that's like Gaviscon. Do you have Gaviscon? No. It's like a heartburn medication. They just throw it over the girl's face, not even semen. I swear at the beginning of the shoot, they'll sit there and they'll pour this heartburn medication or something like Goopy, and they position it all perfectly, and they do all the photos. Because I was thinking, actually, when you think about it now, it makes sense because who It has that much semen. And also the positioning of it is always perfect. Then they wipe it all off. Then they'll do still shots. Then they'll plan out, you're going to be there doing doggy. It's just mental. It's a full production. Full production.

Which I think is It was nice to hear, and I'm glad that you're breaking down that wall again, because I know when I was like, I'm going to get a facial from this guy's penis, and he's going to go all over my face. And I remember the first time it happened, it went right in my eye, and I fully was blackout, couldn't see, was just fucked for the rest of the week. And I'm like, Wait, why does it look like this on porn? Because it doesn't actually fucking happen.

It doesn't happen like that.

Why are people, do you think, still shooting for porn sites if OnlyFans exists?

We had this... That was a question that went throughout that film. And ultimately, is that there is still a demand for high production value porn? People still like it. Onlyfans, I think, is your impersonating intimacy. It's that intimate thing, the back and forth, the messages, giving someone that personalized experience. Whereas, porn is much more a fantasy. It's costumes. It might be in a style that someone... They do the Sci-Fi shit and whatever. It's a completely different thing.

But aren't women in porn not making as much as- Sorry, you meant the actors? No, that was actually helpful, too.

A lot of them are doing both now. But the thing is with the bigger porn stars, They might have really big contracts with a Brazzers or digital playground or something, and they're on really good money. I think some of them have no OnlyFans policy. If you have that contract. I know, obviously, the money you can earn is a lot more in the States than it is in the UK in terms of porn and stuff. But yeah, the bigger porn stars, I think they stick to their... It's like a trade, isn't it? It's a skill. They make really good money. So all they have to do is go and maybe shoot two films a week and get the big check, whereas what they'd have to do in OnlyFans to make the same would be way more laborers.

In your episodes and through your experience, did you find any women struggling with knowing if they wanted to stay in porno or not?

I met a girl, Alex, who she'd done OnlyFans, and she was wanting to move into porn. She, to me, was someone who seemed really unsure. It filled me with a lot of anxiety I met her, actually. She went and she did, I think, a handjob video, whatever, and she hated it. Then she realized it wasn't for her. I was like, Thank God that you did that and not something else, so you could make that decision. I spoke to the girls who are regular porns. I was like, Scala, I spoke to. A lot of the really professional shoots, they will have a check sheet at the beginning. They'll go through it, the stars. It'll be anal tech or strangling. She could be like, No, don't be strange. And the X and tick, everything that's a yes or a And then that's the print. No one strays from that. She said, Don't touch my arsehole so he can't, or vice. Do you know what I mean? But then she said she'll go to shoots where they don't do the checklist and it's just a bit of a free-for-all. I think there is risk involved. I think that's why OnlyFans as well is appealing to a lot of sex workers, because it takes away a lot of that risk, doesn't it?

Of having to interact with other people. Absolutely.

Which episode was your favorite to create and why?

I'm going to surprise everyone this, I think. But Camgirls, I think, is my favorite episode. It's a really hard one because I love them all. It's like my babies. But Camgirls, the girls I met, I I really, I don't know, I just connected with them. It was just so much heart, and they were so open with me. It was such a diverse range of girls who go to this studio, do this job, which is just so crazy to a lot of us. And then they go home and they're mothers, or they've got other jobs. And it's just like, there's so much more than what people would pigeonhole them as. And I just loved it. I love being in the studio. I love being with the girls.

What was the studio like? Are they in a room by themselves?

It's like this big studio It's like, sectioned down all the way. It's open, right? And each booth is like, different colors or different themes. And the girls are all in there on the phone and the webcam. And so when you're on an evening, while it's in there, it's just a room of sex noises, dirty talk, all competing over each other. But they say they can hear each other a bit.

But it's not that loud.

But to me, it was like, how can you even think straight? Because it's like, literally, I'm talking like, when you go to a photoshoot and you use polystyrene, that's what's separating each thing. My head, when I left that night, was like, spinning. I was just listening to everything. The phone's ringing. I answer the phone to this guy, and he's like, panting down the phone. I was like, this is...

Did you talk to someone?

Yeah, I was giving him all the chat, and then I just couldn't. And I froze.

Give us a little preview.

I was like, Hey, baby, are you horny? And then the... I don't know why I'm doing an American accent. That's just what came out. I feel like if you're going to do a porn voice, it has to be American. Wait, really? Yes. I didn't think about that. That's so interesting. Because I just feel like most porn you watch is- Give me your best American.

Hey, Baby, are you horny?

Do you want to fuck? Was that not like, Hey, Daddy. Hey, Daddy Gang.

We're getting so nasty. It's like, Daddy Gang. That's really interesting, too. Did you find a A lot of these women in the cam world were friends, or was it like, do my work, get out of there?

I think that's why I got emotionally involved with that place because it's a bit of a sorority vibe. They was all like... What made me feel nice is that The thing which I think makes doing OnlyFans or coming from home really hard, if they got a call and some guy asked them to do some terrible thing, people call up and ask disturbing things like, Will you pretend to be my sister or my mom, and I'm going rape you? It's just horrendous. They have to mentally process the fact that that is the actual human being out there in the world having these thoughts. They then have each other to lean on. They can be like, I just had this call, and they all can relate. Whereas other girls who are doing OnlyFans, and maybe their other girlfriends aren't doing OnlyFans, if they ring their friend who works as a dental hygienist, I'm like, Someone just asked me to stick remote control on my ass. She's going to be like, Can't relate.

Yeah, like at work, babe.

At the desk, got to go to a meeting. I can't help you. Whereas I think For them, it's like being around other girls who are doing the same thing, and they can all relate to each other.

That's amazing. I think it's just cool to hear that because I can imagine at times the OnlyFans world can be a bit isolating and lonely because the perks of shooting at home, sure, are I agree. But then being alone, you're like, what the fuck?

And it's all about the numbers, and it can be quite competitive, I think. Totally. And they're obsessing over. Yeah. Totally.

So you really immerse yourself in each of these episodes. Was there ever a specific moment where you felt uncomfortable?

Do you know what it is? It was hard for me. It's like I'm open. I'm pretty liberal. It's hard because there's stuff that I would do if I wasn't like, live from Love Island because I was trying to always walk the line of like, I want to do this documentary. I want to be immersive. I want to get my hands dirty. But I also want people to not get confused. I don't want this to become about me. So if I was thinking on OnlyFans, I want to post something more sexy to see how that... But then I'm thinking The only thing that will happen is then that photo of me will just get pulled out of there, put in British tabloids out of context, and then it's not going to become about what it's about. It was me trying to be really immersive without going to a point where people get distracted and they're just worried about what I'm doing. Oh, my God, she's got her kit off. I'm sure when the show comes out, there's going to be, I do this sex call and whatever, and people are going to... I was an extra in a porno and all this shit.

I love that, but it's like, yeah, it was just trying to find the right.

We In the porno, do you get naked?

No. Okay. You see, I maybe would have got...

I wouldn't have like- Went topless or something. Yeah, I don't know. Really good camp for who I am now.

Yeah, because it would have been people would have been like, Oh, she's just... Yeah. And again, it's almost like the whole thing I'm doing this documentary and I'm wanting to break down these walls of stigma and the way we pigeonhole women. And then I'm there. It was like a head fuck because I'm like, Well, I can't go in my underwear too many times. And people be like, well, she's not really a presenter because she's constantly naked. And I'm feeling the same stigma myself. It's like a matrix.

When I was watching episode one and with the OnlyFans, when two of the girls were shooting on the side, you made a comment and you were like, oh, my God, I'm feeling this maternal instinct towards these girls. Why did you feel that?

I know this thing you're talking about, just those two girls were so young, and I don't want to sound patronizing. They probably would think, Oh, fuck off. We're fine. My dream business grandma. Do you know what I mean? When I was their age, I would have been thinking, I'm literally making money. But I just think I saw, especially more in one than the other, I was like, I just reminded me when I was her age, and I was so ambitious and reckless. She might be way more mature than I am, and she might do this for the next 10 years and smash it. I hope that is the case. But you know when someone's a lot younger as a girl, and I just looked to her. I just felt she was talking, reading out some messages she'd have from guys that were pretty hardcore, really emotionless. And I just thought, I hope that you're okay. Do you know what I mean? And that sounds really fucking patronizing, but that's me being really honest of how I felt in that moment. I appreciate that. And no judgment. It's more like a big sister feeling. I wanted to be like, are you cool?

Are you cool? Are you cool? Yeah. Are you watching it because I was like, oh, my God. I just want to make sure because there maybe aren't guidelines. When that one girl mentioned, this guy sent me my address and said, I know where you live. I was like, when it comes to safety of these women, that's where I get really nervous. And I think that's something that's not talked about enough. Sure, we can glamorize all of it that the media does. But this show is helping because you're hearing from their mouth, not other people that gossip of what their day to day is. The truth.

But like you say, it's taking out the shadows. If your friend wants to have a sugar daddy, fine. But she needs to feel like she can tell you where she's going rather than sulking off into the darkness and not telling and putting themselves in danger. And being judged. Yes. If they feel safe and it's accepted, they can tell their felt, Hey, I'm going to drop my pin. You can check that I'm safe because it's like a murky world. It is.

Which of the four ways selling Feeling, essentially, your body on the internet seemed like the healthiest and safest option.

God, that's really hard because I feel like it's just down to the individual. Some people being a sugar baby just wouldn't work. Whereas other people being on... I couldn't spend much time on my phone. I hate how much time I spend on my phone as it is doing Instagram and stuff. I could not be that logged into a website. So I think it's person to person.

Yeah, that's interesting because it's like, if you are a super outgoing person, maybe the Sugar Baby situation is more for your personality. Whereas maybe if you're more introverted or whatever, maybe OnlyFans, or that could not be the case. Everyone's going to feel differently.

If you want to be out and you want to travel and you want to be social, being a sugar baby would be great or vice versa. I think, yeah.

What? Okay, so now we're wrapping up. Having this conversation, I really appreciate this series and what you're doing. To conclude in this conversation, though, what advice would you give to women after experiencing and watching all of this that are interested in getting into either camming or OnlyFans or porn or Sugar Baby?

I think as hard as it is to block out the outside noise of what other people think you should be doing. Because I always think when people say always something bad, does it feel bad? If it makes you feel good, go for it. But think about it. Just sleep on it a little bit. And also going into any of those areas of work, as hard as it may be to stick to them, I think, try and go in with your boundaries. This is what I'm going to do. I always think with OnlyFans, one of the massive issues It's like the content leaking. If something, which unfortunately at the moment, the leaking is such a problem, whatever you post nine times out of 10 will be leaked. So if you would just die, if that was out and your family and friends saw it, then maybe you don't post it. If you can own it, then do it. I think it's just like, yeah, having your boundaries and what you can be happy with.

I love that because I feel like even just the first episode, I was so interested in listening and really learning from it. And there's so many great things that I can't even imagine the rest of the series. Every single person listening, we have to go watch it when it comes out because I feel like the boundary thing, you're right, that is it. It's like watching these girls starting on OnlyFans. And the girls were like, I started posting this photo. But then you're so right when you earlier said, when someone offers you so much money to just quickly take a picture of your tits and your phone is in front of you, you You never have to interact and see the man. It's a fake world almost in your mind. So you really have to keep in mind of what did I come into this believing in for myself is right and how I'm going to be able to sleep at night feeling good. And I appreciate you saying that. You're right. Nine times out of 10, these photos will be on the Internet. And if you are okay with that, thrive, bitch. But just know that line because I don't think enough people talk about that.

You know what I mean? And I think you're right. I think it's not about glorifying it or condemning it. It's just being real.

Yeah, we're not here to judge. We're not saying, Everyone, go sign up today. It's happening in the world, so we need to talk about it, especially because it's mostly women. But it's also like, let's just have an honest conversation about it.

I would say, about reality TV, when it's so easy for people to condemn it, it's like, no one's got a gun to anyone's head, right? So if you go into it with your eyes open. So if you are willing to go onto a TV show and expose yourself to the world, think about it. Do you sleep on it and think of the pros and the cons, make a list. It's easy for me. I'm really impulsive. I literally make all my decisions like that. But I mean, yeah, it'd be a nice idea to weigh everything up.

Totally. And I think, and then I have one last question, but I do think it was really cool because I was thinking about it when I was watching that first episode and I was like, I feel like a really also good way for women before getting into it would be reaching out to some creators and being like, Hey, I know you have no idea who I am. I'm I'm thinking of starting an OnlyFans. Do you have five minutes of your time to just chat? Because your show- I just forgot one area that really freaks me out.

What? It's the referral thing. So other content creators, if they can get someone to sign up, they get a bonus. So that was one area that I was a bit like, oh. So I think, yeah, if you can speak to someone you trust, but I do think there's a bit of a thing where girls are recruiting other girls.

It's like an ulterior motive.

Yeah. So that's the only thing, because they give that girl or boy, this boy, a bonus if they get someone to sign up. So I think, yes, you just have to be really savvy.

Okay, so definitely don't reach out to anyone. Never mind. Just literally watch Liv's New Show because you're breaking it down in everyone as a from a different perspective. Last question. Okay. What was your biggest takeaway from creating this series?

I think I touched it briefly. It's just the interest in that we live in this world where all the obsession is on the women creating the content, but no one's talking about the people buying it. The reason OnlyFans is what it is is because all the men in our society, the demand. And not that there's anything wrong with that, but I just think it's interesting. We're never looking at the people asking for whatever it is. We're always looking at the people providing it and shaming them and looking down on them. But we don't worry about the fact that It's probably Bob from Next Door. He's the one asking for the feet video. Do you know what I mean? We've got a long way to go to move the sexism and the stigma. I hope shows like this will break down boundaries, and it humanizes these girls. I think it's very easy to dehumanize people that work in the sex industry. I think the online sexual economy is even more dehumanizing because we just see them as robots online. But these are real people with real lives with families, with partners, whatever. And they should be treated like that.

I think that this show truly is breaking down a barrier of showing the behind the scenes. And exactly what you just said, all of us are essentially dehumanized because of social media in the world we live in. And this show is like, no, let's humanize these people. Let's go into their bedrooms. Let's see their lives. Let's see the cars they drive. Let's watch them through day to day. And I think it's amazing. Daddy Gang, you need to go watch. It is going to be amazing. I love you. I'm so honored you're here. This was so fun. Thank you so much. Amazing.

Thank you for having me.

The amount of things that are said on Love Island, that as someone from the United States, I had to Google I'm like, what is she saying? He's a melt. What does a melt mean? What is happening? What is going on? I'm googling like a freak, and I just was obsessed. I started speaking in the accent. Then it was awful. Then I had to move on. But I need to go through some of these terms and ask you to explain them for me.

I hope I'm down with the kids enough to actually get these. I might be sad.

You can start with, What the fuck does a melt mean?

A melt? A drip? Do you say that in the States? No, with her. Just like, normally, if you say it about a guy, I'll go, Scott, backbone. They're just a drip, just like a wet rag. I feel like we would say a pushover, like weak. Yeah, or maybe it can be a guy or a girl, but a lot of times people say it about a boy. When they start to like a girl and they go soft, they go, Oh, he's a melt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's that toxic masculinity thing of being like, If you're nice to a girl, you're a melt. If that's what it is.

Okay, that makes sense. Okay, what about he pied me off?

Like ghosted, just done.

Okay, but you guys say pied instead of ghosted.

Well, we say ghosted, but pied is like, he ended it. He just broke up. Yeah. Got it.

Okay, mugged off.

The similar thing. Like, mugged off would be more just like, a guy just tosses you to the side with not much explanation.

And if you were saying someone's attractive, you guys would say...

He's fit. Yeah. I love that. And it has no relation to their physical...

What would you call someone if you're like, Oh, he's fucked a lot of girls? Shaga. Shaga. Okay, we would say, I guess... I tried to do the accent, it came out so bad. It's like a mix between Australian and it's awful. Okay, so we would probably say he's a player or a man whore.

We say fuckboy. But yeah, we say Fuckboy. Or she's a shagga. Shagga. Shagga. That's stunning, by the way. I want that as my ringtone. It's so bad.

Okay, cracking on. What does that mean?

Cracking on would normally mean you meet a girl, you've exchanged numbers, you're going on date, you're cracking on. We would say vibing.

Yeah, got Got it. Okay, what is graften?

You know, I can't think of what the American term would be, but like working a girl. Like you're DMing you, asking you out. He's putting the work. He's got the hard hat on, the boots, the shovel. Like he is... He's in it to get you. Yeah, he's doing everything.

Do you see that as a negative?

No. They have to graft.

Like he's putting in work.

Yeah, they need to graft for sure.

Because I remember in the show, it was like, Oh, he's really graffing, or he's graffing. He's graffing. Or graffing, if you're going to know. We're graffing. Okay, that makes a lot of sense because it was so fun. I think that's also why I enjoyed it because I was learning so much about the term. It was education. Yeah, it was education mixed with the little psychotic behavior, and it made for great TV.