BBC sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne, and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks book and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were castaway to a desert island. And for right reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening. My castaway this week is the broadcaster and politician, Baroness Florella Benjamín, a beloved presenter of children's television since the mid 70s for those of us who grew up with her.

She was one of the family as much a part of British childhood. Then as schooled in a Skinny's and Top of the Pops part of the Windrush generation. She was born in Trinidad and made the two week journey to the UK by sea when she was 10 years old, accompanied only by her siblings, reunited with her parents in London. She found a love of performing as a singer and appeared in many Western musicals before becoming the presenter of Playskool in 1976.

It was the beginning of a long career presenting and later producing children's television. She's also a passionate campaigner, working for decades with leading children's charities and received a dame heard earlier this year for her services. She was the first African Caribbean woman to become chancellor of a British university, offering a hug instead of the customary handshake to over 35000 graduating students. And in 2010, she was inducted into the House of Lords as Baroness Benjamín of Beckenham. She's been known to refer to younger politicians as my Playskool babies, she says.

I've gone through the round window, the square window and the window, and now as a member of the House of Lords, I've gone through the neo gothic window. Who would have thought it? Baroness Florella Benjamin. Welcome to Desert Island Discs, darling.

What a lovely intro. You know something my mum used to say to me? She knew I would have made it when I got invited to sit in the royal box at Wimbledon, which I did last year. And if I ever got to appear on Desert Island Discs, sadly, she didn't live to see either of those things happen. But today, when I left my house, I found a white feather and I always find a white feather when my mum is looking over me and looking down on me and something wonderful happened.

So it's great to be here today. It's wonderful to have you with us.

Now, Florella TV was a different world back then. I mean, for one thing, there were just three channels. Did you have any inkling of how significant that job would be when you took it on? None at all.

When I was little, I wanted to be a teacher, but unfortunately, I had to leave school at 16 to go and work in a bank. And I didn't become a teacher, but I realised in Playskool I did become a teacher to millions of children, you know, teaching them about music, teaching them about poetry, dance, making things. In fact, Playskool was a bit like a mini culture show. It had everything there and it was a window to the world for the children.

It opened their eyes. And I remember one day saying to the producer back in 1976, I think it was all the illustrations that you see on the screen when I tell a story, are all of white children, can't we have some black and Asian and Chinese faces? Because I want the children out there to feel they belong to that culture to give her a juice. It got changed that very day. And if you don't see yourself, how do you know you belong?

How do you know you're important Florella?

You're sharing your music with us today. Now, you mentioned that it would be a huge deal to your mum to be on Desert Island Discs, but I'm imagining that your dad would have been pretty impressed, too, because he was a jazz musician and I think actually named you after one of his favorite artists. That's right.

He named his children after musicians, Lester Young, my brother Lester, Duke Ellington, Ellington, me, Ella, Ella Fitzgerald for now Florella.

I think we better get into the music. What are we going to hear first? Oh, my first.

This is The Greatest Love of All by George Benson. This song represents my beloved parents who poured love into me every day when I was a child.

And I believe that this is the message that needs to be passed on to children, not just your own children, but to all children.

And I think every new parent should be given the words to this song when they bring a child into the world because childhood lasts a lifetime, I. The children are our future, teach them well and let them lead the way, show them all the beauty they possess inside. Remind us of who you. George Benson, with the greatest love of all Saddam Florella, Benjamin, you believe childhood lasts a lifetime. So tell us a little bit about yours.

You were born in Trinidad, the second of six children to Veronica and Roy. Had you remember your early years on the island?

I loved it because, as the song said, I was wrapped with love. I used to go to school and stand in the playground and sing God Save the Queen. I used to learn about Britain, British heroes and culture, nothing about my own, sadly. And one day my world fell apart when my dad decided he wanted to come to England and I would hear him and my mom arguing.

My mum would say, Roy, I can't leave my children, who's got to look after them? And my dad would say, we got to go to England. The streets are paved with gold. They want us there. Look, this advert saying, come to England, there's work for us. And so my dad laughed when we cried a little bit, but we still had mommy until one day she decided about a year after my dad left to go to England to meet my dad.

My world fell apart that day because she left me and my sister and my two brothers with two sets of horrible foster parents who treated us so badly.

But we got through it for 15 months, separated.

And when we got that letter, 15 months after my mum saying, we're going to England, yippee, we're going to England, the land of hope and glory.

And we're going to see my mum again and my dad and be a family all over again, which is wonderful.

You call it the land of Hope and glory. You said you overheard them talking about the importance of kind of going to build a better life for the family. But what did they tell you directly about what was happening?

Nothing. When they came to Britain and found it wasn't like that, the streets weren't paved with gold. The British people didn't know anything about you. And even though you knew all about them, no one actually told you that back home you still lived in hope. But because you were kind of almost indoctrinated, believing that Britain was your country, that you believed it.

So we came into the lion's den, not realising when we came to England what we're going to have to face, who was going to insult us. And it was on a daily basis having to have this kind of racial abuse as a ten year old child walking down the streets knowing which grown man would be calling you a name or being horrible to you. It's tough being black. It's tough having to face that, especially as a child, but it makes you resilient.

See, you had the sixth sense about who was going to actually harm you, who was going to be horrible to you. We'd go to a shop and no one would serve you and you'd have to stand there waiting to be served. And you knew you couldn't leave because my mum would say, go back to the shop until they serve you Florella.

It's time for your second disc today. What's it going to be?

I've chosen Waiting In Vain by Bob Marley because I love Bob Marley. I think he's a poetic genius. And when my kids were little, we used to play his legend CD as we drove along, especially in our French holidays, and we would sing songs and play games in the car. And we all had our favourite one.

Love was my husband's stir it up was my daughter Alvidrez, and Exodus was my son's essence and mine was waiting in vain. And everybody had to be quiet to hear the intro of this song. One to.

I want. I don't know, do this, you waiting in vain, Bob Marley and the Wailers, Baroness Florella Benjamin, as you mentioned, you learned a lot about waiting when you were just a little girl.

So I'd like to know a bit more about the many months that you spent with foster parents in Trinidad waiting for that call to join your own mom and dad in England. The British Jamaican photographer Vanderburg told me that when he was growing up, the waiting kids like him were called the left behinds. You were just eight. How did you cope?

Well, I coped because I knew I was loved and I had that confidence that it will get better. Adversity can either make you stronger or break you. And my mom taught us how it should never break you. You should always make you stronger. And the people who were horrible to me, I don't hate them, you know, I just think, oh, my goodness me, why couldn't you see life was worth being better?

Did it take some time to get there, though? Florella I mean, I think with the benefit of hindsight and perhaps after time has passed, it's possible to get there. But in the moment, it's very difficult to have that perspective, isn't it?

Well, I had my sister luckily my sister Sandra and my sister Sandra, she's wonderful. And both of us together. We used to hold hands. We used to cry together. We used to know things was going to get better. And my two brothers, they had it worse than I did. They were in a different they were just a family. Yeah, that's right.

Their foster parents were really cruel. They used to make them fight for their food. Winner takes all. And if you didn't win, you didn't eat. And my brother Ellington, he was a better fighter than my brother Lester, and he would often win. But he tried to give Lester some food. And if he did, the food would be taken and he'd got beaten. We often talk about it still, even though where I want them to watch Seventy-one and I still remember a lot of those times, but we remember it where we reminisce and say, my goodness, look what we went through, but we're strong.

It didn't break us.

Were you able to tell your parents what happened to you when when you were reunited? It was six months before you saw them again.

I remember writing a letter to my mom once these blue airmail letters, and I was writing a letter to my mom. My sister Sandra and I were writing, telling her what was going on with Auntie, how wicked she was to us and how terrible our life was at the time, or the letters were vetted. And the woman who looked after us that a older mother galavanting in England left me to look after all you all you could have been an orphanage, you know, and you're telling tales on me.

Wallop, wallop. And it was scratched out so we couldn't say anything. And so when we came to England, it was only after a while that we actually told our mother and my father what actually happened. But at the time, we knew that you had to cope with it because if you didn't cope with it, you would go down. None of my brothers and sisters, none of us are kind of quitters. We all can face the music.

You've written about your story from Trinidad to the UK in coming to England. And that story has also been adapted to film. You were just ten, I think, when you and your siblings made the journey by boat to the UK. And it seems hard to believe. But you did travel alone, didn't you?

Could you imagine health and safety today? It was such an adventure. Mum had paid for a childminder to look after us.

No one ever looked after us. And so we were happy. We used to go and help all the sailors peel potatoes. We didn't realise we were doing their job for them, but we did it, you know. How long were you at sea? Fifteen days.

The first sort of five days with seasickness. And I hate corn puffs and tomato soup because that's what they used to give us to eat. Oh, just a smell on the side of it, even today. But it was such an adventure. Can you imagine? It's like going to Disneyland. The freedom of those horrible people was a thrilling journey. Seeing the flying fish coming up from the seagulls and the waves splashing, you know, and it was just a feeling of adventure.

I'm living it now, going to the land of hope and glory, meeting your mom again, who was like an angel to me in my life.

We've got to make some time for the music, though. It's time for your third disc today.

Tell us about this and why you've chosen it.

Putting on the Ritz by Ella Fitzgerald.

I used to love taking my mum to the Ritz and watching her make a grand entrance as though she belonged. You should see her. She was a statuesque woman, beautiful woman, and she deserved everything that we could give to her my my brothers and sisters, because she dedicated her life to her six children. You know, she has three jobs in a day to try and make ends meet in order to make her children excel in the world. And we all did.

And she used to choose what she was going to wear weeks before we went to the Ritz, you know, for Mother's Day or for her birthday.

I used to love dancing at the Ritz to this song with my mum. I could just see her swaying now.

If you're blue and you don't know where to go to, why don't you go where fashion sits? But no, it's. Given time to wear a day, coat, pants with stripes and go away coats, perfect fit. But no, it's Ella Fitzgerald and Puttin on the Ritz for you, named after her, of course, Florella Benjamin and for your mum Florella, your parents had come to the UK, the place that they considered and I think called the motherland to find a better life.

Tell me a bit about the welcome that they were expecting and then the reality that they found.

Well, it wasn't quite what we expected. When I first came to Britain, I found that my parents were living in one room, and so all eight of us lived in one room. But my mum used to say, this room is full of love and we're together as a family. We're going to make the most of it. Then we moved to Penge where we had two rooms, and then we moved to Annerley where we had a house. And then we moved back in and my mum said, let's upgrade.

But when we went to view this house on a Sunday afternoon, about two thirty on a Sunday afternoon, we were all excited about which room we're going to have.

And there was a garden because my mum was a great gardener and we suddenly heard that our dad died and we looked out the window and saw police.

There were police in the streets, motorbikes, pande cars, blackberries, and the neighbours had called up the police to say black people were stealing the fixtures and fittings. So they came to arrest us. The first policeman to arrive was on a motorbike. And when he saw us, he told the other ones, It's alright, or I'll deal with this one. And it turned out that he was married to a Ghanaian doctor and the same thing had happened to her when she went to look at a house.

So he understood the situation. And we we got friendly with them, became friends with him. But my mum said, you know something? We're going to buy this house. We're going to live in this house. And she lived there for 40 years. And in fact, she died in that house of bowel cancer. That's why I'm the patron of bowel cancer. And she and my dad, my dad died a year before she did, and they both buried in Beckenham Cemetery.

So I went to the cemetery when I became a baroness and I said, Mommy, Daddy, I'm going to claim Beckenham for you. I'm going to call myself Baroness Benjamín of Beckenham there.

It's yours because they had worked so hard to get me where I am. And it's a shame that they didn't get to see it.

Florella you laughing when you tell that story now. And you know, I can hear the smile in your voice, but it must have been an absolutely horrible experience. How did you feel at the time? We had joy in our homes. It was joyful, joyful within your home existence.

You knew when you left your wonderful environment, your loving environment, and you stepped out the front door.

You knew you're going to have to face whatever abuse came at you. If you prepared for whatever comes in life, then you can cope with it.

One of the joys that you mentioned in family life must have been music. Your dad is a jazz musician, named you after Ella Fitzgerald and he was a saxophonist. So in London at the time, did that mean that he would go up to Soho to find work?

Very much so. He found some work with some of the big bands. You know, Ted Heath Band. He actually formed his own band afterwards. You played music up and down the country in this country, in Germany and in Sweden, in Africa. So he had a full life. In fact, there was one group he was with called the Mohicans. And on the bill was the Rolling Stones there with the support at the Stones, support him.

Then later on, you know, my mum got fed up with him going up abroad, you know, everywhere. And, you know, my mum said, Roy, you can't keep gallivanting around the world. We got six children. You got to come and find a proper job here in England. And so he worked for British Rail during the day and in the evenings. On weekends, he would form his own band and his band would go and play music all over the country.

And let's have some more music, shall we? Disc number four, what are we going to hear and why?

It's the song called Once by Stan Getz. And my dad was a great saxophonist, as you said, and he used to give me records, his birthday presents. And one of them was the Stan Getz album, Voices. And a track on the album is called Once. And I associate that that with my darling husband, Keith, you know, and we met.

Fifty years ago, and we've been together ever since, and we used to play this particular track over and over again on a red plastic portable record player. It's our signature chewed and it's just sentimental to us today. We haven't got the record player anymore, but we've got the album.

Once by Stan Getz for your husband, Keith Florella Benjamin, what a glorious track. How did you and Keith meet?

Oh, I remember the day quite clearly. I used to work in a bank and I want you to be the first black woman bank manager. You know, I was the first woman employee to wear trousers in a bank back in 1967. And for two years, three years, I worked in the bank and I realized that that dream was a fantasy, not reality. And I saw an advert for singers and dancers wanted for a musical touring the country.

And I thought, well, I can sing and I can dance. So I went for this musical and this audition in my lunch hour and I wore this pageboy wig and a short skirt and I went for this job and I sang for them and then they said, Can you move? And I said, Of course I can move. Well, I went one way and the wig went the other way. It was huge laughter on the stage. And then they said, Can I read?

And I said, yes, of course. But I looked at my watch and I realized it was in my lunch hour. And so I said to them, I'm really sorry. I don't know who you are out there, but I've got to go now because I've got a proper job in the bank. And if you want me, I want 30 pounds a week and I'm not taking my clothes off. And and they said, but you got to this is hair.

And I don't care what it is, my mom wouldn't like it. And so one of the people who was involved with hair was Keith. He is the stage management because I got the job. So that's how Keith came into your life. Tell us a little bit about how you made the move from musical theater to Playskool. You'd had bit parts in various TV dramas. What kind of roles were you looking for at the time?

Well, I black my way into getting a role in a drama school within these walls at Guggi with us. And I played a 16 year old shoplifter and I said to the producer one day, why do black people always have to play thieves and prostitutes and bus drivers? Can't we play, you know, other parts, you know, professional doctors and lawyers? And he said to me, that's not realistic.

I thought to myself, well, is realistic because that's what my family, my family are all professional people. And that's when I started fighting for diversity on our screens way back in 1973, 74, because I worked in the theater a lot and I worked, you know, in dramas. I used to watch children's television. And I think to myself, I'd love to do that. And one day I went for an audition and I remember the audition I went to I wore this week because doing a play with Kenneth Williams where I wore a wig, I went for this job, went for Playskool audition, and I was telling the producer what I can do and what I couldn't do.

And I could see I wasn't really impressing on that much.

So I lent forward. I said, oh, by the way, I don't really look like this, you know? And she said, Oh, what do you mean? And this is what I really look like.

I know my wig off and I gave a thousand beads and she went, Oh, my goodness, that's incredible. And the rest is history. You know, I had a lovely time on playschool. I, I didn't realize just how much it would change my life. And now I'm known as the lady from Playschool.

Let's take a moment for some more music. This is your fifth disc today.

Then what are we going to hear next are when they begin the begin by Julio Iglesias. I adore this song. I actually go into raptures whenever I hear it. I grab my husband and I say, come on, dance with me. And he doesn't like dancing, but he does dance this song with me and I tell him I'll lead. You follow.

You know, Cindy. Let's go to. Yaroslav. We've got a whole. When I said. Julio Iglesias and begin the beginning, he said that from your earliest days working in television, it was in your mind to push for better onscreen representation, to push for diversity. And it's something that you've advocated for many years. How easy is it to do that while working within systems? Can you challenge them from the inside?

It was very tough. I was told, shut up or you'll never work again. You get knocked down.

Yes, but you have to have that self belief that you're going to rise. And a lot of the things that I said way back, you know, 40 odd years ago is happening now. But now things are changing and it's wonderful. We've all got to take personal responsibility to make change. And change will never happen. There's going to be lasting change, if not everybody's in it together.

It's time for your sixth desk today. What are we going to hear next? And why have you chosen it?

Oh, I love this. When I hear about it, I think who would have thought the prince of Denmark's march, the version by London Gabrielli Brath formula and this ceremonial music was played for the procession as I enter the Great Hall for the graduation ceremony at Exeter University, where I was chancellor for 10 years, and I would be wearing a robe that was once belonged to the British prime minister, the Marquis of Solsbury. And one of the most memorable occasions that happened to me during that period of time was when the queen was there, the queen visited for her diamond jubilee, being the chancellor to host her.

And afterwards we sat and we had lunch together and we exchanged stories. And she told me all about her family. We talked about food, about children, about the House of Lords.

So I told her my story and I said, you know, Mum, when I was a little girl in Trinidad, I used to think, God save the queen. But how badly I was treated when I came to England. And now here we are sitting together having lunch. Who would have thought we really, really hit it off together her? And I was a great occasion. And interestingly, when she left, I found a white feather that meant my mum was looking down on me saying, there's my little girl who would have thought.

Prince of Denmark's March by Jeremiah Clarke, performed by the London Gabrielli Brass Ensemble Dame Florella Benjamin, that track taking you back to your time as chancellor of the University of Exeter over 10 years, and you had your own style of interacting with the students.

I believe when I first got the role, I said to them, listen, I don't shake hands. You know, I hug and I have to do things my way. And I used to hug each graduate and say, go out and change the world, make a difference, make me proud, make yourself proud, make your family proud.

How much have you had to adapt your approach to the Lords? Then you became a life peer in 2010. You a liberal Democrat peer Baroness Benjamin of Beckenham.

I've got politics in my DNA because my grandfather was the deputy prime minister of Antigua many years ago and very much a union man. My uncle, you know, he was also involved in politics. He was the mayor of Bolton. And my father was very much a union man as well. And so our whole house was always talking about politics, about what you can do to the world, what you know, how you can make that difference.

You've become well-known for your campaigns for children and young people. What are you focusing on at the moment?

Something that really is very close to me is getting age verification on the strategery books, because age verification is making sure that children cannot access online pornography. Just with the click of a button. We're almost there. And I feel, you know, we've got the online home bill that's coming up, which I'm going to be working really hard to make sure that children are at the heart of the matter.

So time for some more music Florella. Benjamin, this is your seventh disc. Why have you chosen it?

Are you going to go my way? Because not many people know that I'm a rock chick.

I used to be the singer of the author Ken Follett's band, and we used to perform, you know, for charities all over the world, including the graduation ball, you know, Exeter University. And the words to this song represents what I used to say to the graduates during the ceremony and the graduation ball. They would throw flowers at me and chant, changed our world, changed our world and sing along with me to this song. I remember it so well.

Lenny Kravitz, are you going to go my way? Lockdown has been a challenging time, but perhaps a bit of a kind of trial run for being on the desert island. How have you coped and have you learned anything new about yourself?

Not really.

You know, at the age of 71, I know myself pretty well. I'm a marathon runner. And when you run marathons, you live through anything that's challenging. You live through anything that's worrying you, because, you know, when you get to six miles, especially, something wonderful happens. You suddenly your feet aren't touching the ground and you're floating. And so I'm accustomed to having to explain myself. I'm accustomed to visualizing I'm accustomed to throwing my mind beyond the horizon and coming back, listening to the voice in my head, you know, that good voice, that bad voice that it's almost like Star Wars.

You know, that battle that you have with yourself, the challenge that you have and how you're going to cope with it. So being alone, you know, I think, you know, I'm going to maybe find some inhabitance, you know, maybe animals talk to the birds when I'm in the garden during lockdown, a rabbit is always sitting by my feet and I talk to the robin.

Before we send you there, time for one more disk today. It's your eighth desert island disk. What's it going to be? SMIL, my Nat King Cole.

Whenever I travel around the country giving inspirational talks, you know, to organizations and to schools or to universities, I always finish with this song to motivate, inspire people to never give up. And I've always been determined to be a winner to succeed in the end, no matter how long it took me to carry no hatred or resentment, but to have a happy, contented heart that overcomes everything, you can overcome everything with a smile.

Smile, though, your heart is aching. Smile, even though it's breaking. When there are clouds. In the sky. You get by. If you smile through your fear and sorrow. Smile and smile by the great Nat King Cole, Baroness Florella Benjamin, it's time to cast you away to help you settle in on the island. Of course, we'll send you away with three books, The Complete Works of Shakespeare, the Bible and a book of your choice as well.

What would you like to take with you?

I'd like to take Barack Obama's dreams from my father.

It's a wonderful book that illustrates that saying who would have thought?

And you know, when I met President Obama in parliament in 2011, I hugged him and I said, thank you for inspiring children to believe in themselves, to never give up, to give them hope.

And that's what this book is all about. It's about hope. It's also about the importance of cultural identity and belonging. It's about understanding your responsibility to yourself, the world. And how political decisions affect generations to come. That's what dreams from my father is all about. And we have to thank Barack Obama for giving us this book.

Is Barack Obama a good hugger? Not many people have never spoken to anyone who hugged him before. What's it like?

Actually, he was quite skinny. I was quite surprised how slim he had such a slight frame. But I know he's a hugger because his wife's a hugger. She's hugging everybody. I knew he wouldn't mind me hugging him and he really hugged me back.

You can also take a luxury item to help me pass the time more enjoyable. What would you like?

I'm sure you're going to say no, but it would have been my husband if I had the choice.

If only we can't give you Keith. He's got to stay at home. I know he is the ultimate luxury item. Every woman should have a Keith in their life. But saying that I can't take Keith, you know, I'll take him with his spirit, but I'm going to take something he knows I always take with me. And that is my neck cushion. I take it everywhere I go in the world. So I get a good, comfortable, relaxing night sleep.

I sleep for eight hours a night. You need your sleep to get your beauty sleep. You know, I even use it when I'm lying on the beach and I'm sure there's going to be a beach somewhere on this desert island. So it's definitely going to be in my backpack.

Well, that I can do. And finally, if you had to save just one of your eight tracks from being washed away, which would you go for?

It's got to be just one song because it starts at the very beginning. Everything starts with children. So it's got to be the greatest love of all.

George Benson, wonderful Baroness Florella. Benjamin, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs.

Thank you for having me. I enjoyed every moment. I loved it, I loved it.

And my mum will be so pleased. Hello. I really hope you enjoyed that interview with Baroness Florella Benjamin, and I do hope she's comfy with our next guest on the island. We've cast many Bahrainis away over the years. They include Baroness Halleck, Baroness Doreen Lawrence and Baroness Helen Newlove. You can hear their programs if you search through BBC sounds. Next time, my guest will be Professor Avril Mansfield, the UK's first female professor of surgery. I do hope you'll join us.

I know you just want to hear your show, but this won't take long.

I'm Miles, the producer of Radio Four's Triqui podcast, and it works like this for people from across the U.K. meet up and without a presenter breathing down their necks, talk about issues they really care about because work is quite complicated for a lot includable and it's OK to be against it, but not to shame someone because of their profession across the cities will hear anger, shock and even the odd laugh.

Another thing that really gets to me is when people say, I know what we need to do. I know what black people shut up, you don't like. That's the thing. That's not how it works. Nobody knows. If you knew, you would have done it. Discover more conversations like this by searching Trickey on BBC Sounds.