I'm Shinada Moore, and you are listening to everyone on the podcast.

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Five children in five years, this week's guest, Sarah Battle, understands that the key to a happy home is a happy mom.

Sarah's stunning house by the White Thorns is her passion project and has grown many admirers for its style and comfort. When Sarah lost her sister, Kate, the grief and deep sadness helped Sarah realize that really her home was built on her own well-being.

Here we talk about her. Sarah recognized that she needed support and began a really positive road back to herself and how she knows that her little people need her. So it's essential she takes care of herself when she is happy and, well, her home is happy and well. Sarah, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast, it's it's such a pleasure to see you this morning. And I really I with all of these conversations, I'm so disappointed.

I genuinely and I'm so disappointed that I can't see people in person and sit down and have a proper cup of coffee in front of us. And but also, this has afforded us you know, you probably we wouldn't have been able to get into a recording studio with your busy schedule.

So our drinks live with me or bring five with you. So small mercies in all of this.

And I'm so happy to have you on this morning. How are you doing?

I'm good. Yeah, good. And excited, to be honest, because I know we touched base probably before you had Judas. And then between everything, I just got really busy and it was still always in my head. So I'm glad I connected with you that night. I think it was like midnight or so. Yeah.

And I was like, let's do it.

Let's just fuck the day. So yeah, it's great the joy of sleeplessness and needs.

But like for me it was like I think I was reading a cookbook or planning my next recipe or something random at 12 o'clock. I just need a bit of time.

I find that I can't go to bed like I could go to bed, they go to bed, but I just can't because I need that downtime and just to do something that is for me and for nobody else. So that's why it's so nice.

Now, I completely understand that it's it's it's it must be so intense with five. Like, how do you carve out any space for you. At the moment, I think covid has probably worked in my favor, our favor, maybe Barry and I, because Barry works from home, know he's really busy as well. But in the sense that we're not I don't feel like I need to leave the house. So I do enjoy like I can I can step away for 15 minutes.

I could walk down the drive for 15 minutes. I don't feel the pressure that I have to go somewhere or be anywhere. I just I'm at home so I can escape the 15 minutes if I want to. But it is pretty intense from two o'clock until seven. It's really, really busy. Really busy.

Do you find like try and be in that moment? Don't don't try and do anything else during those hours. Both Mother. What, like the morning time, so nine to 12 is probably if I have a lot of work coming up on social media here for Christmas. So between nine and 12 is the really busy time. And then from two on, I try to be in the kitchen and more present. So that's why I've had in the morning, because I don't really want to be on my phone.

Obviously, there can't be any reason when I'm creating content, I have to be that person, creating the content.

And then from two on, I'm the other person, the mom.

And I think that's important for people to hear. Because the thing about Instagram is people assume you're just documenting your life. But it's not. It is work. It is a job. You know, you have commitments. You know, you have to structure your week as though this this is this is a job to do. Yeah.

And I really enjoy it because I love being creative and I do give 100 percent to all of that. So when I did start the page, it'll be two years in December when I set up the page, we had moved into the house in September. And I just love interiors and being creative and paint like everyone's like, why are you painting your house again? Because I just love to work and stuff and change things around or stuff around your room.

And then it's moved on because I have a home economics teacher, so I love cooking, baking, sewing and that kind of stuff. So I suppose my page evolved a little bit. Maybe this year I started bringing in more than life style and it has really worked for me and I love that kind of stuff.

But it'd be impossible to not bring in the lifestyle because your lifestyle is it had a bit of drama and change in the last year with the arrival of your twin boys you went from and you had the three Isabella Alexander Matilda in really quick as well. How old are they? So I when I brought old Matilda, Isabella was just I think she's two years and seven months.

And then I Alexander, who was 13, 13 months, I lose I completely lose track of years dates. So, yes, we just do the January baby.

So we just saw it is about a twenty fifteen Alexandra. Twenty sixteen and we just missed twenty seventeen with Matilda. She was January so twenty eighteen. But I find that really difficult going from two to three. No. One. It was January number two. I had three babies in nappies.

I actually remember one morning and I, I remember crying so much because I think I had twenty nappies in a pile outside the door because like you're not going and you just throw up just to the back door.

And I couldn't, I was like this is just like that was in one hour I think like between everything. And then I was breastfeeding Matilda as well. Alexander Hutton started walking. He didn't walk till he was eighteen months, so he wasn't even walking when he was four.

So it was crazy.

I've had five since twenty. Fifteen. Yes. So five and five years.

Five. Yeah.

Yeah. Isabella turn five there. And in May.

I just that's a lot of pregnancy, if I feel like I've been either pregnant or I've been in the hospital having a baby or breastfeeding for like the last year, I'm sure if you did if you added it up that, yeah, there's been there's been very few months where your body hasn't been growing or supporting the growth.

I know. I know people. Yeah. It's so amazing.

What are you doing? Like, how do you sustain that?

So we were sitting in Galway for Isabella and Alexandra and then we made the decision to recall when my my sister passed away in 2000 and 15. So Isabella was about six months when it happened. And then I had Alexander very soon afterwards and go away. And then we said we will we built a home and then I was pregnant with Matilda. So it was the hard thing. But also I wanted when something happens, I think you just really want to be close to.

Your family unit, does that make sense and something major happens in your life and you're like, OK, I just just need that, I need that blanket security blanket. So we made the decision to come home and then. My mother is great and I had like college girls, too, I like to be in concert or in college and they for the summer and they come in and, you know, they're just I just ask for help and people can do this to us.

Are you good at asking for help? I think so. Yeah, definitely. You know, it's easier to ask your own family, of course, like Barry and Barry sister is this fantastic car. And we take them for she take them down to the beach. She lives at a school or whatever, and she'd take them off for the day or my sister's partner, he would take Isabella because Ellen is two years older than her.

They're really good friends. They're really close. So people just take take individuals. They take the bus for the day or do something so you don't drop all five. So so we're like, when are we going to plan our getaway?

How do we divide them up?

Yeah, I don't know to but the siblings are such a gift and knowing that the five of them have each other, as you said, you have experience, loss of your sister. And it was part of the reason that you wanted to reconnect and move home and and build that connection back up again. Tell me about her. So Cage was a nurse in Dublin, she had Ellen. She was actually she just finished her master's in DCU and her partner was doing his degree.

And you said at the time, but she was working as a nurse, just obviously furthering her studies. So she had Ellen. They were I think they were planning to go traveling. So Ellen was unexpected.

And I got married in the October and into January.

I remember we were really excited because Kate was she finished her shifts and she was supposed to be coming down with Ellen to mail for the weekend and all of that. We were all excited and she rang me and said, I'm in whatever hospital and they found a lesion on my brain. Just like what?

I just you know, I actually remember where I was in the car and I was like, oh, my God, I didn't know what it meant. But I do remember she made Googling and the worst thing came up and I remember saying, sorry, like, look at this, like GBM it's called. And he was like, oh, this new lectureship, that's the worst thing. Like, look, it happens to all men. It turns out that this was it.

So that was in the January.

And then 18 months later, she passed away. We spoke to Alana and and shared her.

And I still like to I will never, ever, ever forget that conversation that I had with her and I have never been so arrested by so many positivity and strength and courage and bravery and all of those things.

I love Alana like she's she's and she's doing so, so well. Yeah, I can see it like she should be doing so, so well. But I just can't believe that it is actually happening to such a young girl with three beautiful kids. And she's just like, I don't know what to say. And I always said this case, I would be so angry because to give her a pair of fresh pajamas from Penny's was like the only thing that I could to like.

And I was like, oh, my God, it's just wrong, you know, it's just so wrong. And she had a little girl I the alone at the time.

And just to watch us like it's it's cruel.

It's cruel with the pregnancies, with caring for the little family that you had. Yeah. It's. And I've seen it in my in my in from personal friends as well, having to. Sometimes the challenges of those early motherhood years fill the place. They're there enough to fill the plate.

And yes, even when something small happens, you you bowl, you can crumble over not finding your keys.

Know, you can crumble over 20 nappies in an hour. Yes. You can crawl over the smallest, most irrelevant things that don't matter. The loss of your sister and the loss of your sister who has such a young child, too.

That's a lot of pain to take on.

Yeah, I think it came to the fore for me when, as I said, I've said it on social media when Matilda was born, I think just everything just exploded. And I got from my mother who people could see the signs. It was crying all the time. I didn't want to get out of bed like I was. Obviously, I was feeding Matilda and that was fine. Like I loved doing that. But I wasn't present for the other kids.

Like I was I was having irrational thoughts like that. There were things wrong that I think I was like, there's something's going to go wrong. And the crying and just not being able to see a way out of this. And even like I did have one panic attack and I am a teacher like so I would have seen it. And I had been in a managerial role before before I had any kids. So I would have seen different things.

And I just you just never think that things like that can happen to you, but it just gets really dark really quickly and like, you can't see a way out. And then, like I did, I suppose other people saw it. And then I was like, OK, I need to get help. So I went to my GP and then I went to a psychotherapist and the first session with the psychotherapist, it was actually really interesting because, well, no one I cried for, first of all.

But she was taking notes. She was asking me questions and she was taking notes. So the second time I went back, she's like, I'm not trying to catch you out. But what you told me in the first session makes no sense. So she was putting together a timeline. So I had the years that the kids were born with its debt all mixed up, like nothing made sense. So in my head, she said it was like everything had happened so quickly and so fast that I just never processed anything.

I was really like probably just on top and had never dealt with anything as such. Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense, just completely makes sense. And I think between the hormones and the brain fog and the adjustment at each phase, honestly, it's without the grief. Without the loss. That's enough to to make you feel to make the strongest of women feel like they are, it's just a whirlwind of of life change and you. What you said about you, you know, you were afraid.

Because you had seen you had seen what could happen, you had seen the worst scenario. I think that I think that was a I do remember saying to Barry, look at this, this GBM. And he's like, there is no way that is going to happen to catch this before her brain surgeries or anything before the biopsy was done or anything like that. And I was like, OK, OK, OK. Yeah, you're like you're just being silly.

And then it did happen. So in my head, it's like anything can happen. I and I had really irrational I was having really irrational thoughts and I was nearly making things like making things wrong that weren't there. Just everything she needs, like, you know, it's like I think the other baby was doing, gosh, at this age or, you know, like this, it is constant rather than but now I just feel like, OK, I just have to get on like I have to get on with things and.

You know, obviously, you always do comparisons and you worry about everything, but now I'm like I have to for my own self, just try and keep going. Can you describe the panic attack?

Because I wonder, do people know what it is?

So when I suppose when everything kind of what was happening, moments like go into town and have a coffee for yourself. We were renting in an escrow zone, which is a lovely beachside town in County Sligo. And I drove into about an hour and I drove in and turn the car around because I actually couldn't that maybe this this is what I would have called a panic attack. I couldn't breathe and I felt everything in my body was closing in my chest and everything.

And I was I just drove straight back down to the school and I took Mattilda and that's what I called panic attack. And I had a really horrible experience of the whole like that. I'm driving back from town, just did a loop. Like I didn't even go for a coffee. I thought it was just the tightness and thus not being able to breathe for me. And how has counseling helped or even were you the process of deciding that that was time that you needed that kind of professional help?

How did you find that experience and the benefits that you got from that experience?

So it definitely it went back to things that I would never connect with what I thought was the on the issue or what was going on with me. Like we went back to things like how was my mom worked with us and just different things that she would never think.

Connect to what you're feeling at the moment. That was the biggest eye opener for me because it made connections. Thus, you know that I am very probably very similar to my mom, like as a mother. And it's lovely because she's a great mother, you know, it's just different connections and just different things like that. So it made sense of the force and the yeah, and it unravels.

That's the only thing I could just if you picture the ball, a tangled ball of wool like it just stretched it all out and made things more clear and probably give me a reason to feel like I was feeling bad for feeling that way.

But, you know, it was just like it was just fun to lie while I was like that or say like that or feeling so down or feeling so depressed at that time.

And could you feel yourself therefore becoming more present and more calm and less in your thoughts and less in the chaos, I suppose, of what was going on in your mind?

Yeah, I don't actually remember the coming out of it or the turning point. I can't actually remember that at all. But it was definitely after the counselling, like people need you, little people need you. And you're really important concerns about what it was like. You're really important person in this house and the people need you. And, you know, like everyone is here to support you and help you.

And they were like, so it was. And I just can't remember when I actually turned a corner and started to feel like that I was OK as such.

That's really good because it's not just a switch. Yeah, we aren't just switches. We're not just oh, I'm experiencing the challenge with my emotional or mental health right now. Oh, no, I'm not. Yeah.

Yeah. It doesn't work like that. No, it's a process. It's definitely a process. And that's why I would say it was really important to get help and for I don't think I recognized it at the beginning, but others did. So they helped me, I suppose, get help. That's one of the things that scares me most, about 20, 20 and now and the lack of postpartum interaction that women will have with their mothers, with their sisters, with their friends, with new women in a class, because it is those people that support us.

I think so, yeah.

And it's those people who are sometimes like as incredible as the partners are.

It's your own or your sister or. Are you going to breast breastfeeding support group or. Yeah, like a baby sensory test like that, like it was just you just don't know who who you will meet the right time who will make you think, OK, yeah, I always think things are going to work out or you meet the right person at the right time and something they say or something to do connects with you. So yeah, I think we're a lot of people are missing that connection, being at home like.

If you are at home and you're feeling down and nobody know where to go when you're not living in your family, then it is quite difficult when you find out that you were pregnant again for the fourth time.

Did you have some fears around what these feelings come back?

Yes, I did say that. And in my head I was like, OK, because I, I know that I could just creep up on you. That was my main worry that would I know it was happening or would it just happen? And then I have to I'm going to have to get help. And and so I was more aware and I know that others were even though they were just saying it, I know that there was a lot of thought put into when the babies will come home, like people will be around for this time to this time.

And like, I definitely had one day of crying when I had listened to you at home. And I think my mother was like, OK, she's going, OK, OK, what would you like?

But it was it was just normal baby blues when it was over.

But yeah, it, it hasn't happened. And I feel, I feel in a good space and I feel that I can. If like I feel that I'd be more in control, it's a level of acceptance and like recognition and I think once something is seen, it's a lot easier to control us. Yeah, yeah. And then something that is kind of unknown and I'm creeping up on you. But tell me about the day that you did find out that it was twins, but that it wasn't just number four in there.

So we went for a private I knew I was pregnant straight away because I just know and I was really, really tired this time, really tired and went for private scans. It was 10 or 11 weeks and it came up straight away to straight away.

And I just put my hands on my eyes and Gary was pacing around the room go, oh, my God, no way, no way.

Stenographer's. She was just laughing because we had the discussions with the other three as well, because my mother is a twin non-identical twin. And when I might have seen this on my own page this years back, I was still we went to Eddie Stalins. He was a healer. I go away and I was just sitting there was like a private kind of sessions that was just hard, Kate and myself and I was kind of sitting in the background. And when we were leaving, he just tapped me on the shoulder and he said, Twins', for you.

Now, I had no babies at this time whatsoever.

And I was like, Oh, that's weird, because I really had no I was just sitting there to be a sports, like, I wasn't talking to him or anything like that. So when I had Isabella, I was like, you know, this guy was single. And I Alexandra's kind of single then mattilda. So I actually had forgotten about what he said until obviously the fourth pregnancy. And then I was like, oh my God, the two of my friends actually had twins.

So they were a great help and gave me the twins pillow and different things like that.

And just so like I think if I had the twins first, I would have found us a huge like if they were my first babies. But this time I think they just slotted in and it's it actually gets easier from three, three to five today, believe it or not. It really does. Like, it's I couldn't imagine them not being here, if that makes sense. I couldn't even imagine just having a fourth baby. I they have just slotted in so nicely and they're just they're absolute all.

It's like they're just and I couldn't like it's so funny because momose they're going to be two girls because she's obviously twin and her, her sister is married and she like it's going to be two girls like Mary and I and I said I don't think so. I thought it was one of each. And then she when those two boys I couldn't imagine having two girls, I'm just like they're just absolute snorkelers.

It's just I don't know what it is when you find out that it was going to be two more and you didn't need any more stuff because you have all the stuff.

And as somebody who's just had her second, I see that I we have everything and with all the kind wishes, everybody's like, what can we get you?

We're like, no more stuff, please. Yeah, our house is full of stuff.

Yeah. Looking at your account where there is the stuff, please, please.

And I expect I'm like she has, she has a wing of the house that nobody can go to that is just full of clutter and, and I'm like I'm looking around going I don't see anyone's coat on the floor or she should take me if I could, if I could describe my home.

Right now, it is a scene of just pure chaos. No, like, OK, we're look, I suppose the kitchen the playroom is off the kitchen and the playroom is absolutely like it's upside down and there's every single thing you find in there.

Usually there's yeah, they come in, they throw their coats on the floor, the shoes, a trail of shoes. But as Gary said, I am probably the most untidy person and I think this shocks a lot of people worse. Yes, I'm extremely untidy. So he really has to pick up after me, like, so I'll be like, look at all the kids shoes. And he's like, and look at your two girls on the floor.

Throw them at them.

And so you're looking at the play of that and then the futilities, the courts are normally out there, but no, it is like an everyone always says that about Instagram. Like, I'm not going to like if I'm putting up house pictures, I will always be sure it's a nice corner or square square miles. And there's usually chaos behind me.

I, I still struggle to believe I I struggle to believe that you find yourself an untidy person.

Oh I'm like I think I will one day shock people and I'm gonna show them my car.

Is your car like your, your, your, your secret crush of my car is like there's an episode of Friends.

I always bring it back to that episode where Monica's almost like, oh no, Ross is going out with that girl.

You remember with the Rams. Yes.

Like, I was like, I've gotta stop my car. I got possibly the Robert's living in my car.

Besides, like, yeah, I'm like I am proud of our whole and what we've done and the ideas we brought to it. And I love like styling different rooms or creating a nice space, like even Isabella's room. Like I just love making her room the way, like that's probably the way I want it. But she like she loves it too. And like everything really has a story like like there's lots of stuff that I have there.

Like I have a gorgeous patchwork blanket from like like there's different things and it's from me growing up and knowing this was just so lovely to have.

Yeah. Or like just like lots of things are old and or even like buying.

It's like one of those may like bunnies that probably cost a bomb. But I just like I embroiders Matilda's name into it. But like I'm she'd definitely have this hopefully if she ever or gets married and has a baby or something like that, I just I love those kind of things.

It does look quite idyllic, like the thought that you put into each detail, especially when it comes to the kids rooms. You know, they're they're like little, you know, enchanted island island.

Beautiful. Yeah. I loved even doing the nursery. I just love all of us.

So for anyone expecting twins, if anyone who's just find out the twins are coming, what I'm hearing is, you know, it's. It's been it's been seamless for you if they've slotted in, they've joined this family, you know, your headspace was really good. You had the support around you. You were anticipating what you needed. That was around. You were making plans for what you needed. And I think with any birth and any new arrival in any life transition thus is what is critical, like the people around you and that you are are just open to the the feeling that life is about to change.

Life is going to get harder, but we're opening ourselves up to also enormous levels of joy.

Yeah. So for anyone expecting twins are actually do I think if you're if you're going to be a first time mom, I don't know if you find this as well. It's I remember coming home with Isabella and because I came home a couple hours later, I lived in the city. So I had the midwife to the house. But I remember walking in like possibly eight or nine hours after having her in the house. And I was like, oh, my God, how am I going to find this human myself?

Like, how what do I do? Like, I just I'm even coming in. I remember driving up the driveway with the twins. My sister and Matilda were sitting on the path and they're all waving and shit. And I was like, and it was that feeling again to high school and how am I going to get through this or how how is it going to pan out?

I definitely think probably the brighter, brighter weather has blossomed. I don't know, like what you can do is your best. And if you have help, you have have like some people might need help. But certainly with Fi's. Yes, I needed the help in the beginning I started.

So I, I, I, I run the department that looks after the parenting content for Zahra. So one of the products is every mom with a few like we had Easy Parenting magazine with.

Right. Yes. I used to buy those. Yeah. And the old maternity guide which is given in all the hospitals. So all the packs that are in, we've we we create content for 17 of the 20 maternity hospitals. And so there's a lot of other things other than everyone. And the National Parenting Product Awards is a big thing that we also do every year.

So, OK, so I run the department for that. And I felt every mom as a media product in the in the landscape of parenting and conversations and reality and sharing all of these things because we used to be a mum and then we. Yes, yeah. So I did the rebrand for that into every mum. And then I was like, right. Just because of my role. I said, we need a podcast, like as a media product, we need a podcast.

We've getting delayed.

Nobody was kind of actioning it internally. And it was always that thing of like, we need to do that and it wasn't happening.

And then I have a good relationship with Laura Ward, who was the marketing director at Mothercare. And I pitched it to her one day and she was like, brilliant, will sponsor us. So I went back to the boards and I was like, we have a sponsor. You know, it's going to have to happen now because there's revenue potential coming in. So can I have the time and the resources, please, to get this off the ground?

And they were like, there's revenue. Yes. Do whatever you need. Yeah.

And then nobody internally would do it. Yeah, OK.

Not that they wouldn't do it, but nobody wanted to host us. Nobody wanted to be, you know, and we looked at outsourcing and getting a professional to do. Yeah. And but then there was a bit of fear that it would become that personalities show and the brands show, you know, like if we were to take in somebody who has a media personality, it would just be cool. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah.

The Glendive about them. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

So it was decided it had to be internally lalala and yeah. It was just the time was the clock was ticking and the, the sponsorship agreement had to happen and I was like right I'll do the first one, I'll do the first one. If it's absolutely shocking. I'm out, I'm done. You know, it's not my gig. I run. I'm, I'm, I manage everything in here. It's I'm not the content creator of this. And and then it went to number one and.

Yeah. Production. Yeah.

But Your Grace, Your Grace is like I'm not I don't know what I'm like. I'm just having the charts as far as I'm concerned. That's yeah. That's great. You know, and it's no more, it's no more than that. And I'm learning along the way but and yeah it's, I love doing it. And that's the thing. When maternity leave was coming up and they were like, so who are you going to pass it to. I was like.

No one sorry, what has what do I thought I'd like the common point to be able to pass the baby to somebody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My God, it's lonely enough in lockdown with a smile. I love that I get just tip away. Yeah. Yeah, totally analysis of anything. And I'll do the promotion for.

I know that sounds like it's a really nice thing to structure my week with.

Like no handing it to anybody and get on you. Yeah. And then waterpipe signed on after obviously Mothercare had close and they wanted to keep me on it. So anyway I was delighted to. But it's funny, I've had so many messages from people being like, are you on maternity leave?

Are they making you Granzow? Yeah.

I mean, were you there because I know you kind of started to to get by some of your project work pretty quickly with twins. I straightaway I think I was. Yeah. And like to have people like you. I just I just didn't, I didn't I was at home, I was working from home. So I was fine and I was flexible. So I could do was when when I needed to do when I had to do it. Yeah.

And I liked Sounness. I think I think if you really like doing something like that, you will throw yourself into it as well and make it work. Yeah.

And what you're creating is gorgeous. Honestly, that's what but you can tell there's so much time. I think people don't have the level of time that goes into they might not feel like worst time, but it's time. Yeah, it's it's it's time. And the editing part is probably the hardest. I think you have a certain standard. You set your own.

I have set myself, I feel and I want to make sure it's right for brands that I'm working with and and that it's true to me. Your skills as well.

How does my person I'm not going to put this in the episode, but I just feel like the sharing of the family stuff.

And he said, yeah, yeah, he's fine, he's fine with this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just he doesn't mind at all. Yeah. I suppose I'm a bit more conscious of Isabella. I'm putting her because she's in school now so I can be clever, clever and different things like that.

I got a bit of a price with the test score which is the uniform thing and I, I got a fright because somebody said it's on their Facebook page and yet millions of followers on the Tesco Facebook page. Yeah. And I never connected that it would be on that. So I got a felt. Did I put her in a vulnerable position. Like a bar is like no, like you're not dressing your child scantily or you know, it's not tacky.

But I just still I was like, OK, I can be a bit more clever with my photos and stuff because I think that I think the thing about the uniforms, if they're identifiable, there's a lower level of, oh, they could fire school or you know, I can.

Yeah.

But I think it was just maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But even just her face was there, like I just was like, you know, had a little bit of a shock about it but I yeah. I can be a bit more clever. Yeah. Know that with things. And that's the thing. Like a family children will age and therefore the content needs to you know, not that you're and I'm not talking specifically about your content, but you know what I mean.

It's more like as kids grow up and yeah. They're not cute.

Gorgeous little baby girl anymore. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I don't want to be in pictures. No, I think it's remarkable that any parent can get a decent photo of their child.

There's very few signs that we have all together like are just like, you know, I don't want to be that person. Go get into this picture to show off this whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I can do a little night, like nice videos of them running around or doing whatever work just as well.

Yeah. But the stuff that's like the jam doughnut's just delicious. Yeah.

I mean because the Halloween one that you did as well, like it's obviously this family business but it's, there was so much creativity as well in us. Yeah. No I loved, I loved too much and and often those videos actually come together just by accident and I'm like, oh that's that's good.

Because really like I think I shot people as well like I wanted, but also a bit of a technophobes. So like technology actually scares me. But somehow it's like I'm winging like it just works out. And then I'm like, she says, I have to do it to you.

Are you self-taught then in terms of like.

Yeah, I just did all those myself. Yeah. I still don't like. Do you have extra hours that we don't know about in your, in your space. It's, it's the staying up late like there is definitely two a.m. to and. Editing like can also, but not not too often. Yeah, but then functioning the next day is important, too. Yeah it is, yeah. Exactly, yeah. OK, look, let's get back to your busy world.

I'll just pick up where we left off, where you were talking just about and having supports or for when you're coming home and a child wondering how you're going to do it. And you were just kind of thing. But you find a way. Yeah, I think you do. And like you have that instinct anyways. I think it just comes out. I don't think Barry has ever had a baby or anything. And then it just just happens and it's natural and it just.

Yeah. I think you need to just find a way, because really I think you get the flow of you trust yourself and you just get into your own flow. And I think that's the best.

Sara, thank you so much. And I'll let you get back to the flow of the flow with five AM. I'm still learning how to just do it, too. So I think it's all relevance or relevance relative to everyone.

I commend you on just how you've adapted, how you have recognized what you need as a woman, how you recognize that you're not superhuman. We all have moments and things that happen in our life that will affect us and what we can do in order to be so that, as you said, we are so important to these little people how how we support ourselves is so important for the for to support and raise these little people.

And and I just I'm I'm really grateful that you were able to share your experience of when something enlightened happens, that the most important thing to do is to look after you.

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And thank you. Thank you for having me on. I'm delighted. Actually reconnected last night, I suppose, after I Yllana had been on. Yeah. Things do happen in strange ways. Something strange. I know it's been an absolute pleasure.

And I really hope at some point when this all ends and we can get to Michele. Yeah, we can have a proper chat. Thank you so much for listening, if you enjoyed this episode, it really helps our show to grow. If you subscribe right or leave a review, share this episode across social and get in touch with this week's guests there. A bottle at house by the white ones on Instagram. Talk to you again next week for our last episode of this season.

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