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I'm Shinada Moore, and you are listening to everyone on the podcast, supported by water types who are proven to be fewer than cotton wool and water and now biodegradable.


From fertilises birth pandemic parenting to taking care of ourselves here, we talk to women about their own unique experiences of motherhood, the insane joy and anxious to face the love, the laughs, the tears and the moments that we don't talk enough about.


This season is supported by one of the most essential products for everyone from that first nappy change to those messy weening months waterwise the world's purest baby wipes made here in Ireland.


What do wives are now 100 percent biodegradable and compostable wipes with the same purity and quality as before. They are ideal for sensitive newborn and even premature skin as the number one wipe in Ireland. Together, we are committed to providing more support for parents with trusted products and this podcast. It's 20, 21, we're still at home, but we are back to help with 10 more episodes with ten incredible women over the next 10 weeks to kick off season four.


We have a story with a very happy ending as broadcaster and mum of three, Susan Kane talks to us about Zaidee, her 20/20 rainbow baby in December 2019.


Suzanne heard those words she never expected to hear. There is no Harvey's bruised with sadness. She did what many of us do. She put on a brave face, suppressed all that emotion, pretended it didn't happen, and didn't dare to dream for another chance.


But in the midst of all that went wrong in 2020, something went very, very right.


And as Suzanne explains, Sady, the measure of her dreams was born here in Suzan's very warm, honest and witty way.


We talk about how she felt through her grief and her joy, her pandemic pregnancy and birth, and the love upon meeting her gorgeous girl at the end of her rainbow. If you've experienced miscarriage, I need to talk. You'll find links to incredible support services in our show notes.


Suzanne Kane, thank you so much for joining on everyone on the podcast, I wish to God we were actually sitting there in person to person with a cup of coffee and having these conversations. But in a weird twist of fate, this year, you have become a huge sense of of all source of support for me. And as we both progress towards meeting our two little girls and. Your story, I'm so proud to be able to share this here to these listeners, because it is a huge ray of of blow in what could be a really tough year.


And but it also has been let's not underestimate the pandemic pregnancy that was oh, no one likes the pandemic virus.


No one likes a pandemic pregnancy.


But, yeah, we we we're I don't know how we found each other, but we've had some pretty for free to humans who have never really crossed paths. And we've had like those moments where you've been in the bath imminently due your baby, and now it was obviously via text, I was sitting on the toilet beside you what you were saying, and you had no idea the Judit was imminently, because I think at that stage you were like maybe 10 days, like you were doing like 10 days.


Yeah, I was really close.


All I remember is constantly needing loop the loops.


So this is we bonded over ice pops and then you were really kind because then obviously had arrived into the world and then the supply of troops was better for me. And I'm good like that.


I'm going to give back. Yeah, I needed it at that time.


But yeah, it has been I think, you know, for for any woman who has found out that they're pregnant in this pandemic and that they're giving birth in a pandemic or now they're on the journey. It has been it's been quite a year because you and I have spoke at length about the anxiety that that brings and the fear that that brings. But ultimately, which you find out in October and I find out in December, is the ultimate joy that that brings.


You know, I think you you find you find that kind of pass the word along.


For me, it was it was I held her last I was just last night. I held her as I looked at her and I just thought to myself, I wish I had known that it was going to be you and it would have melted away. All of those fears, all of those worries, all of those anxieties, all of those unknowns and all of those fears became so loud, I think, for a lot of us and still are for a lot of women as we're now in the depths of the third wave.


But I suppose for me on the other side of us, had I known that she was the end game, had I known that she was the prize and all of that, I would have sailed through twenty twenty. Yeah.


Because we spoke about this. And it's funny that you say that about Jay because. I said, I think I said to you, like two days ago, Zaidee is quite literally the measure of my dreams. She exactly that.


And I suppose for any expectant mom that's listening or dad is that that end goal will. Push all of that so far away. Well, that doesn't take from the the immediacy of of being in a pandemic and the unknown and like I know that that was the bit that I struggled with, was that I very much like to plan how, why, when, where, who like so high will I go into labor? Where will I go into labor?


When will I go into labor? You know, how long will I be on my own? And that part of Joey, my husband, leaving me in the car park and me taking my labor bike and walking into the room by myself and the unknown of how long it would take for him to be beside me, I really struggled with us. I knew from having two other kids that in terms of labor, I would be OK. I know how incredible midwives are.


I know my consultant. She delivered my two of the children, so I know all of that. And I felt very lucky having that as a conference because I knew those things. But it was the framework around that which I think is the part where you're most vulnerable going into labour and having to to make that journey by yourself into hospital and not knowing when your person is going to be with you. I think that's a very vulnerable time for women.


And, you know, as it stands, as you say, we're in a third wave. So that continues, you know, going through the scans and going through my appointments. It got to a point that Joey, I used to drive by myself and then Joey ended up just driving with me because I just needed them in the car.


You know, for no other reason, just to have them there, because I just was craving him coming through those doors with me, you know, am so I really struggled in the bush. I kind of felt like a fraud because I was going in to have my third baby.


So I should be the elder lemon and has done it all before.


And but I ended up, you know, and you and I had had chats at length and I kind of felt very lucky that you'd gone and taken that over.


And you were like, you know what? And actually, I remember because you went on Instagram for like a couple of hours and we had spoken quite a lot. And I remember going home.


If she God, she was aging and now I felt very fortunate and I think that that's the biggest thing for women to know, is that, you know, you will be supported, whatever your Labra journey is and whatever that journey in the hospital is, you will be supported and it will be like, you know, it will be OK.


And, you know, as as we've both said. We're very lucky with the outcome and with our with our little girls, with for the women. If you travel alone for the really hard times, you know, I hope. Ultimately, somewhere that we have a support system in place for those women because they will need us, I think we all will for what we've gone through in terms of this pandemic. But, you know, I think everybody's been on a very different journey.


And you and I both know the pregnancy conception, having babies throws up. You know, it's I just used to think he looked at a guy pregnant.


I was once told by a nun that a tablespoon of semen populates all of Africa.


So I was like, if it think back to Africa, what's it going to do to make it all to love our sexual education? I got known I used to get up to the swimming pool.


The day the Juliet was born was also the day the episode with Chanel Hingston came out where we discussed her locked in Los. And. She spoke so amazingly in that episode around Highwood, how it felt and how she experienced it alone.


Yeah, and so I knew that was, you know, that's coming out, that was being released literally like I was born at 7:00 a.m. and that episode came out of like nine a.m. and I was in the street, the center of which was where she told this story from. And I felt this I felt the gratitude, the appreciation, the looking around, the feeling of deep, deep, deep appreciation for what I was holding before, what is also happening in other rooms in this building.


And that was really powerful and even walking, taking Judy at home and walking past the neonatal units and thinking of those parents in there and all that comes with it, like all we want is for our babies to be well and healthy and to take them home. And it's that moment when they're born is just so intense. The emotion, the release, everything. And the gratitude, massive, massive gratitude and that and that's why I say this sadly, is one hundred percent and that doesn't take from Océane or Hannum.


I know that you kids, but Sady is one hundred percent the measure of my dreams. I never.


I mean, I dared not to wish for her, I you know, I just couldn't allow myself to wish for her because it felt like that wish was too much.


So now I hold her and I watch her sleep and I absorb and we've talked about this this newborn bubble and the time going too fast.


But, you know, I, I just look at her and I am so grateful to have her, but I am so grateful to her. I'm so grateful to her. I'm so grateful that she picked or she picked me and that she's you know, because like as I say, she is quite literally the measure of my dreams, you know. So I feel very lucky.


I'm so grateful that our girls picked now. Because it would have been a very dark year. This year, like. Honestly, it's hard, it's really hard at all. I had a miscarriage last December. And I had to find out I was October, I was pregnant in October and in twenty nineteen and so had I would have been turning three in November and Océane would have been turning five. And we weren't planning to have a third baby, but it was never off the cards.


And it's one question I get asked a lot of my third baby. And the only thing I ever say, because I think it's a really personal thing, is that if you will regret us, well, then maybe try, because to me, I think ultimately I would have regretted not trying, but I didn't want to go back to previous trying pregnancies where it's ovulation sticks and the intensity of this. So we just weren't being careful.


And it turns out that tablespoon of sperm isn't quite what the population of Africa that I believed.


But anyway, am Joey, Texas. It wasn't even and I was like, can I get anything in SUPERVALU? And I was like went through the list and said, you might pick up a pregnancy test, whatever, and he was like, oh, right, OK. But at the time, because of the age that the kids were, I was very much getting back into work. I was talking about going back full time to radio to a point where I was looking at contracts and what my working hours would be and all of those things.


So I wasn't 100 percent sure about having another baby because I felt like I had got myself established again and like I'm freelance, I work for myself. I had had a bad experience when I got pregnant on how I was made redundant from my radio gig. I was the only person made redundant. They were making cutbacks. It was people on four times my salary, but they took my tiny salary because of cutbacks, like I was never going to save a company on twenty five grand.


But, you know, I am ironic that, isn't it?


So, you know, I didn't have the best mindset about having to go to an employer and say, I can do all of this. It can be very pregnant and I can turn up for work because I know I could put. I put that aside. Did the pregnancy test come in the door? I went straight up and did as he stood at the top of the stairs, I think like nearly fell down like it was it was carnage. And I walked out and he knew by my face and he was like, yes, yes.


And I was like, oh, my God, I'm talking about going to radio.


Like it was just and he was like, as Joey, do stories like Buffier come up? We'll figure this out. It'll be fun. So over the coming weeks, I was so excited about this. And as it turned out, the job wasn't right for us and our families that that went out of the way. And then I was like having these lovely conversations about a summer baby. And, you know, because both my babies were born in November and we were going to have a baby this summer.


And would it be too harsh? I might be super pregnant. So none of the bad stuff cryptid like none of the bad stuff. So I had gone to see my gynae and my uncle, with whom she had done an early scan, everything was Tip-Top, so we were good. And then she said to just come back to just come back and have one quick scan before I hand you over to your obstetrician. So that's Chris Murphy who had to live with you two of the babies.


That was fine. Joey didn't come to the room that day because why would of done this a million times before? And I'm a strong, independent woman, so off I went. And as it turned out that day, I was having my scan in the early pregnancy unit in the CPU. And when I was sitting, waiting to go in, I became acutely aware of my surroundings, but they were my surroundings, if that makes any sense. They weren't me.


They were other women and couples going in to receive good or bad news. But that was outside of my bubble of where I was.


You know, you were an observer. That was their world. Absolutely. And I became really aware of a couple. And I can I will see their face forever. And I could see this woman's face. And she was just bereft. And she was going in to have a scan. And I was just so engrossed. Thus I was like, oh, my gosh, she's having the worst day ever. She's having the worst day ever, and I wanted to say something like I wanted to say, are you OK?


You know what? It's. So my consultant went down and went in with this couple. And you could feel this feeling like, you know. And my consultant came out and she got ready, and at that point I text Joey and was like, I didn't think this through. Alan. And he was like, I'll jump to the conclusion of the car and I went, no, no, no, we're fine. But I was. Caught with this, what I was watching, what I was observing.


I had no idea the next 10 minutes everything was about to change. And as we walked in, I had a conversation with my consultant called, you know, and obviously she's not going to say, oh, you know, I should go. So she said, I'm going to do a TV or trans vaginal just because I want to make sure sizes and my dates are a bit off. That's what it's going to be forgotten.


I'm chatting away and, you know, cracking gags and. So you could see scans and scans. And she just looked and she was just like, Suzanne, you know, it's not looking good and I was like, you know, my further longer. And she was like, there's no heartbeat. From the right, like from this year, I've learned a lot about the language that's used and it's very clear language. You know. Because it has to be very clear language, because in my case.


I just asked you, could you try again? You know, they have the sound wasn't turned off for. You know, she knew. To try to gain. But she showed me on the screen, you know, like it was very clear there was like a trail am.


Across the screen and I have been bleeding on and off, but I have bled a little bit, you know. And both of my other pregnancies said to me, I was like, it's just taking bets that, you know, kind of settling and maybe it's twins, you know?


So she took took a picture. Asked me, did I want to? And that's still in the same place in the kitchen. It's just stay there. I don't know what I want to do with it, ask it. It's there, but it'll stay there for the Menez Buddha. And I left the room and she said, You want to ring Joey or what can? And I was like, No, no, no, I'm cool. So it was decided that I need to Taverne or PC to have the fetus removed, the baby removed.


And and that I was going to she was gonna do that in two days time because it was really close to Christmas if I hemorrhaged. Seems like if two kids you don't enjoy coming in here on Christmas Day with a hammer. So, you know, that's we'll do this. And she was like, I just don't think you're going to pass this yourself.


So I was like, OK, I think she was just sparing me.


Heartbreak was there with the ultimate heartbreak of of trying to start it myself and taking that tablet and doing all those things, so that was fine, booked in and walked across the road with the and I had to ring Joey, who's not expecting this news.


And. To me, tell them that I failed. Because that's what it felt like, I felt like I got all the way to just stop it where we think all he got to 12 weeks and everything's OK, I just nearly just got there and I had guilt for that. The fact that I had said get a pregnancy test that's not pregnant and that I had talked about my career and put all of those things in front of this pregnancy.


And then I allowed myself the happiness to think about the summer and holding this baby. That I will be too warm and that they will be in a little romper and that I would have to get a certain kind of and I was, how stupid was I that I allowed myself those thoughts, you know? Because that's not the way it always plays out. Am I wrong?


That's the. That's the thing. That's the. You know, you you let yourself believe, and I think as women, you fall in love instantly and maybe not with, you know, whatever that this person is going to be, but you fall in love with the experiences that you expect to have. That's that is exactly what it is and the idea of being a big sister and Oshin being, you know, a big brother to do and how lucky we were, we didn't try.


I didn't have to go down this ovulation road. I didn't. It was was meant this baby was meant to be. And the night before I went in, it was December and we had to do with Smithson's, we did that. I didn't have a nice dress to go to Jones and that was our date. Nice. And a few times, Joe, he was like, you want to? And I'm like, no. No, and I didn't want anything different for the kids, so Joey brought the kids to school and crash on, my best pal drove me to the hospital.


And I got into the car and did a hot water bottle in the car and a blanket and she's like, You're OK, buddy. And I'm like, yeah. And she's like, you're not going to be, you know? And I went, Yeah. So we drove. And she was like you, I was coming with you and I was like, No, no. No, no, no, no. So I went in and my sister and I was a midwife and she was coming off nice and she Taxco when I just popped in, say hi.


And I was sitting in a four bedroom and pitch black with my coat on. I wouldn't take my coat off like they'd left my gown on the bed. And I I'm like, I'm not taking my coat off because the minute I take my coat off, this means it starts. So I sat on my coat on and I can still hear her face like the rubber so I can still hear her feet in the darkness. But I'm walking in and she was like, this is why she come home.


So she stayed with me. And I spoke about it before, the one thing that struck me about being in the room was the kindness, but that every single person acknowledged the loss. They all said, I'm so sorry for your loss and I'm so sorry while you're with us today, and I suppose more more than ever, we talk about the shame the women have experienced about pregnancy and the feelings we feel about infant lost and our bodies and all of those things.


So for me, I said to Clara's like, I almost want them not to be nice so I could give out to somebody for being unkind, you know? Yeah.


And she was like, bring your pillow with you when you go to theater, bring a pillow. So I had like, my pillow with me going down to theater. And I'm sitting there, there's a woman across to me and they have to go through all of those conversations. They're like 11 plus to, you know what, all that kind of stuff.


And then they they look at you and then you go in and I remember the two things that when I was having the operation was one, I said to the Anestis, well, I definitely go sleep. Because I go, you know, you sure, because I don't want to wake up. Yeah, and he was like, no, no, but I'll definitely wake up after. It's like two kids at home. And he was like, you'll definitely wake up.


And my consultant walked into the room and my last class. As I was going to sleep was, I don't please don't take it out, just leave it there like I just got overwhelming motherly instinct to protect something that I just I was like, OK, I felt so much like a failure for not being able to even miscarry by myself that I had to go in and have this baby taken out of me.


I felt like the ultimate betrayal, like it really did. And everywhere was so Christmasy. Like I said, I can't tell you for the tinsel and glitter, like there was like little teeny little hats on trees for infant loss, there was glitter garlands all the way along. I remember like coming back from the usual that, like, all gone.


Above my head, but the difference was where we are now and where we are there. Was that your husband could come to the hospital? Yeah. So as I opened my eyes, as I was rolled back into the room, I looked and Joey's like, I'm here. And I was like, I didn't realize I needed you as much as I did. So right now we're going to need you. And he was like, we're OK, we're OK and we'll be OK and.


We left the hospital and I got into bed and I slapped. And that was 18th of December and on the 19th of December, it was Christmas. And I remember just going. I cannot allow. The thought of this to come into my head because it felt I felt so sad like.


But I felt like I had no right to be sad because I had two beautiful, healthy children. I know so many women who struggle to even get a positive pregnancy test. How dare I? Because I can't have my third kid. Like. So it went it just literally I'm not even I'm not even dealing with a look back at pictures of Christmas, I'm like a mental Stepford wife tartan skirt.


Rajpal And we're having a wonderful time. And I'm drinking Prosecco. And, you know, the kids. It was just his ultimate coping mechanism for getting their survival.


We No. One is women. That's our thing is not. That's what we do.


If you allow yourself to even feel one percent of the pain, you wouldn't come back. No. And I knew that it would just you'd you'd fall into us and it would be too hard, it was easier to stay braced and in survival mode than to pull yourself out.


Yeah, 100 percent. So we went. Into January, I spoke about it. I was on the radio talk about something completely different and it just came up. And I talked about and I got off the radio range even today with them, and I was like just a heads up, I may have mentioned the miscarriage there on the radio. And he was like, are you OK? Because he knows what I'm like? So he's like, are you OK?


And I went, yeah, kind of came up. And it was Mario was Mario Rose. And I know Mario very well. And he felt very comfortable. And he was like. OK, because he knew that was so far from where I was in my head, and then I put it back in the box and that was John. And February. Was just so sad.


Because it felt like it greeted me everywhere I went, and it wasn't just because I found that anybody was pregnant or we were trying because I wouldn't dare try, it was because I was trying to suppress something that I needed.


To just say. I'm really sad. And I said to Joey. As lockdown started under the intensity of all of us, I'd had a few glasses of wine. And he said, Are you OK? And I went, No, and he was like, what's going on? And I said to him, I'm really, really sad. I really, really wanted that baby.


And now a house, and he was like, OK. So he was like. We'll just see what happens, and I was like, Yeah, and he was like, do you want and I don't want to try. I don't want to put myself. Because I can't I knew if I had tried, tried and had a pregnancy test that said not pregnant, it would have just smashed me. So I was like, I don't try. But the universe.


Had very different plans, as it often does, as it often does. So on a very sunny day in April, so my parents had just been all over the place from the miscarriage. And.


We reluctant you couldn't go anywhere, so I went to the chemist and bought pads on a pregnancy test either or just in case I was like, I mean, hopefully one of them will be good for us.


But also we don't know when we're going to get into into a pharmacy again. So cover all bases.


So I came home, got in and I left the pregnancy test there. Because I just I was like, oh, wait, oh, I see. So then. The morning time the kids are down having breakfast and I went upstairs and I filmed it on my phone.


Because I wanted Joey to be there. May not being able to cope with it, saying not pregnant. So it felt weird that if I recorded this, that he was with me, that I you know, that it was just I wasn't what I was expecting, but I was bracing myself for us.


And I was like, I'm not messing around with lines, has to clearly say not pregnant, I want words, I don't want to be looking going. Is it a reason? Is it if I press down on us.


You look at it in this life.


If I use Flash because I did not respond to responses that I've gone through, the websites that I'm looking at, other women's lines going yet. Yes, you are your destiny. No, no, no. That's a fine line. So it wasn't messing around. So I left it on the side of the toilet and I are in the bath and I'm literally and I actually go because it was just clear and it's that pregnant.


So I what I was I to do, I love my first pregnancies, is it's like big dramatic and we're going to the bathroom together and then, oh, what's up, message?


I'm like six pregnancies. So what would you know? I was like was getting pregnant and I was like, I'll have it. Can I take a first response? I'll take the how much are they. Twenty five yet. Give me three total income.


I don't even know what that is anymore. And he said I thought you go pots for your period as well covering all the bases. So he was like oh my God. And I wanted to, I just looked and he was like. And I went. Just nothing done speak and he was like, OK, and I don't say the words is, OK, OK. I did not say the word pregnant until I was 16 weeks pregnant, because I kept saying at the beginning I was like, let's pretend that we're in the phase where we're trying.


And that positive test was a positive ovulation test. So let's just call it that. Let me get in for my early scan, which I had to go to alone. I was like, what? Let's just say that's like a carnie check checkup to see can we have kids? So I just went through. All of these first bits of it that nobody knew and we weren't, I would not for a single second allow the dreams.


Because they were going to bring. All of everything, and I feel for every woman. That now does those. Appointments alone. That is bringing in. That previous journey and that heartbreak that we bring with us, because I'd go in for my scans and just be like, I'm not even going there, I won't. And like Maryanne said, she's like, everything looks great and I'll see you again. And then I remember her saying to me, I'm going to pass you over to Deirdre Murphy now.


Are you going to go back to your obstetrician and you're going to go have your baby and everything's going to be OK?


And I said, do you really think?


And she was like, well, you know, I'm pretty confident that it's where it should be and there's a good heartbeat. You're getting along now. So it's time to, you know, to send over an. Like that going in for that big anomaly scam by yourself, which is huge. That was the first time that I allowed myself to realize that I was pregnant. And my body very much told me I was pregnant because it did everything that it should have done and I'd had my two babies before.


So it showed itself very early. I felt Sady moving very early because the other two had left to fully basically a condo there. You know, it wasn't even an apartment. It was like shitloads of space to move around.


And like that was the first time for the anomaly's that I went, Oh, I just wish Joey was here. I just wanted them. So then he would just come in the car.


To come to the appointments now command, just come and sit in the car and. I was brought in to be induced on the third of December. And Sadie was born and a minute past eight. I like it. I can't even tell you about, like, words don't describe that dark menace, right? Because. All of the heartbreak. And all of the joy, it's like they both mass. And Joey and I exploded like it not to take for Hannah Erskine's birth.


But everything. It was like all of our dreams. So imagine someone just handing you your dream, you know, and I'm like, that's what it was. It was like everything that I dared not wish for had arrived into the world and the sadness that I felt was allowed. And Joey, the same because he lost his baby as well. It wasn't just me he lost. He had his grief and his loss about the baby. So. They it's like those two worlds collided in the room that night that I was allowed to say.


I'm so sorry I never met you, baby, but thank you for giving me this baby. Thank you to Zaidee for choosing us, because that's what it felt like in that moment, that we acknowledge the loss and we embraced. The happiness of the future that Sadie had just given us and like the minutes, you know, and. Suppressed emotion can only be held back for so long. Yeah, I think everything was so heightened, so heightened, but also.


The restriction to let ourselves feel anything this year has been also so tight and does not come with every part of our lives because that's my story on my journey. But no matter how straightforward or not straightforward it's been for anybody this year, there is. There's just so much. Emotion entwined in us. You know, like you said it, we pregnant women have been robbed of so many amazing moments. You know? And yet we just naturally we just forge ahead, you know, and as you say, like the the Depression and so many women have been through through so much.


So that even the good outcome that when you get to hold your baby, but I think of every woman who didn't get to hold her baby as you exactly as you said, because, you know, a couple hours after he was born, a little baby passed away the coma. And you could feel you could feel that, you know. The staff wants to wrap their family and all of their love, and they did everything they could, and I think the women were aware.


That we wanted. I don't know who that woman was. I don't know who that baby was, but I will always remember that baby. Oiks. You know, and we will need support, you know, everybody will need support after we come out of this pandemic, but I think women will definitely need support to talk through their births and talk through their pregnancies.


I think there is going to be an avalanche. Oh, and we talk about waves at the moment.


This is my fear is.


The absence of connection, the absence of talking, the absence of sitting down eye to eye reading, body language. And you know, when you're in the company of those people that you can't hide it from. You know, it's so simple to write, I'm fine in a text and it's so simple to publish a high life.


You know, it's also your partner is phenomenal and he's brilliant. If you're going through stuff, they also try to minimize. And protect and avoid. I do want to say confrontation, but avoid the conversations that might, in the short term cause you harm, but in the long term save you.


Absolutely. You need your women, you need and not even the women that you've known in your past. You need the women that are right there with you now. You need the women that are having the fears that you're having right now. You need to have the conversations and make those connections with all the that's the reason those women baby groups exist. It's not to give us something to do at eleven o'clock on a Tuesday, although that thought is handy, helps, helps.


But it's actually the enormous waste that gets lifted when you just talk to somebody who is totally with you, where you're at.


We've spoken about this and I know you would put stuff up on your Instagram account, but it's. Finding the people who get you and finding like you could have the best friends and best family in the world. But then you find somebody who's on that same journey as you, or maybe they're having that day that you had three days ago. Yeah, and they validate that. That's OK.


You know, and. The anonymity of a pandemic is frightening because. I miss my mom. Because I can't hold her and she can't be here and she can't see somebody growing and she can't do any of those things. And I miss my pals and I miss that part of my life. But also, I miss being able, exactly as you say, of sitting in front of someone and someone knowing by looking at you. That you're not all right that day, it's not to say you're not going to be OK the next day.


But just somebody. Validation that that's OK. And I think going through a pandemic is hard enough, I think bringing your body. Through pandemic, especially right now, we need to be so kind to ourselves because we don't have the person who would usually eyeball us.


And handles the kindness and hand of the laughs, Oh, Jesus, you need to laugh like I have conversation three o'clock in the morning and I'm like, Oh, thank God you're here.


I you need you need to have that Toonami in public because someone just, you know, when you're you're in the full depths of the mom sweats. Oh, they're on the boogie will not open if there's an audience on your reef in light of the booze and you're look like you don't have a clue what you're doing.


And then just somebody else that you've never met in the car park is doing exactly the same thing. And they look at you and you just have a moment of, oh, thank God, we're OK, we're OK, we're OK.


And, you know, it's never perfect and nobody knows what they're doing. Ever know even as you're on your third?


I'm on my second. I don't know what I'm doing.


No chance. Not a hope. They tell us where it leads like, say, two six weeks on this earth. She's like and then my four year old's leading the charge. Yeah. You know, and then my six year old is not going to school because it's bad. There are days when it's mayhem and it's but it's it's manageable and there are days when you do feel like something is going to crack.


And I think that.


That's that's what I'm missing most, I'm missing most talking to people who are right in the crack, you and if but I, I, I feel and I was asked this question the other day about do I feel robbed of the maternity leave that I thought I would have.


And you know what, I in one way I don't because in truth, I was much more lonely on my first than I am now. And it is a very lonely place if you are a mom at home with only your baby who is not responding. There's no conversation, there's no chat back. And yes, I would kill for an hour of quiet in this house right now. And what I wouldn't it's those first time moms who are at home who haven't made the connections with other mothers.


Yes. Yes. They have their back catalogue of friends, but they're all on different places right now.


You know, I have made much stronger relationships with women since my daughter three years ago. I also have learned how to make new friends as a result. I think as adults were so bad at my friends like you have your friends from school and then it's like. Three decades go by, you don't speak to another human unless you're paid to be in the same room as them. And becoming a mom, you learn how to make new friends and you learn that actually somebody you met last week actually could be your lifeline for the next year and that that's OK.


And it becomes a sort of tender for for lonely hormonal women.


And that's that's a lesson that I am very grateful that I learned a few years ago. And if anyone is in that boat right now, I would say learn it right now. Like, don't be afraid to say something to a stranger. Don't be afraid to message somebody else who you might see on Instagram who's going through something like you are. You know, don't stay alone. Know the phrase it takes a village, I think right now more than ever, you have to build your village and be your expectation of that.


Yeah, the village doesn't come knocking. No, it doesn't come in an Amazon delivery like everything else.


And it has to be built. And that takes a lot of vulnerability. And I'm just grateful that I'm not in that place, but I'm so mindful of everyone that is.


Yeah, it's vulnerability is is something that I became acutely aware of this year. The pandemic has taught me. The double edged sword of vulnerability that I have always feared I have, I fear vulnerability, I am I just didn't allow this to be part of the fabric of my makeup, to be perfectly honest. But actually, I've learned that it is one of my greatest strengths, you know, and I think exactly as you said, you put up a post a couple of weeks ago or a couple of days ago about packing that bag for the hospital.


And I guarantee you on Instagram, you were asked about a million questions about your maternity back, as was I. And I was people like opposed to what you call your maternity back. And like, I cheated with my maturity. I was sent through a press gift. It was from all of they put it all together for me and it was grand. But the biggest thing that I took from our post, which I think every woman needs to know.


If we put as much effort into packing our maternity back that we did after we gave birth, we would all be in a much better state. But we don't have pajamas we were in because we consider we have all of those things and then we get home from the hospital and the beautiful bubble. And whether, like I definitely after her or she did not have the baby blues, I had the baby navys, but it wasn't post-natal depressed. So somewhere in between Sady gave me the most incredible, euphoric, fully oxytocin, beautiful feeling.


But that's still you will still look at your husband two weeks or your partner over the dishwasher two weeks after that baby is born. And he will look at each other and be like I. Really tired and he'll go the polls don't go there and I'll go, you pocket, that's OK, because and then you both have a moment that you only get. On your second or your third baby, you do not have that on your first to go, this is sleep deprivation.


This is intensity of having a new baby. I remember on Oshin Joey coming home from work, picking up a bottle and was like, is that clean? I swear to God he inserted, but we did not have.


The knowledge to know that that sleep deprivation and that's the roller coaster of having a baby, I didn't know those things.


I thought it was the only woman in the world sitting in an apartment, rocking back and forward, going, oh, God, I don't think look alike because what he needs is not be changed or have to change him.


Well, to change him.


Oh, no, I don't think we're going to, you know, so that the doomsday scenario things.


Oh, they're wonderful. You know, you will you will go through every step of. Putting baby into coat, into buggy and out and back again and everything that could potentially go wrong along the way, and you will destroy your freedom by doing this, because I think that needs like we went out after you say he was born, I think why three would not be I bottle fed through one feeding bottle mixer and not be a wipes and threw it in the bag and Joe just looked too much.


Can you imagine us doing this? I was like, oh god no.


Like if, I mean if she had a tiny bit of spit up on it was like full change last night.


I literally just kept you away despite that first bite, the phrases and the leaks. And I know your sense that she just literally keeps puking everything all over what is with the Pew tonight. So last night I got her out of one thing. And I swear, this is no word of a lie. By the time change the baby girl she picked, I went to Joe. Do you think we really need to change that? Would like that wouldn't have even happened on Oshin.


Like if he had even looked at Babygro wrong with that. Oh, we need to change fast and you know, it changed his name if you want. It wasn't even properly wet like you know, but that that's still if you're navigating that alone without going because I remember being in labor and watching the girl across to me, I'm still so thankful for her. If she was on her second baby and I remember who said to me, Are you OK?


And I was like, I'm really scared. And she was like, you've nothing to be scared of. You're going to be crazy and. Because she knew I was going to be OK. She had so women now not getting. To get that interaction. And, you know, are almost subjected and I don't use that word frivolously, what kind of almost subjective? Even more so to the perfect notion. Yeah, I'm having your baby.


Doesn't exist, and I it 100 percent does not exist in a pandemic, so you are doing amazing. And you are doing amazing. No, you are, you really are.


It has been an absolute crap year, but there has been gorgeous moments and. You know, I'm so proud of the woman that you were a year ago. I'm so proud of what you felt, of how you survived, of how you let yourself believe again that, you know, somebody was going to be part of your world and of sharing that vulnerability today because. As you said this time last year, it was all locked inside you. Oh, yeah, and I'm I am really proud that you were able to let it out today because it will have an enormous benefits on anybody else that is going through it.


So thank you. And that's always my pleasure. And I will say to any woman listening that everybody's journey takes a different path.


And I don't I definitely don't have all the answers.


But just be kind to yourself, you know, please, because I learned the hard way that you give yourself sometimes giving yourself the hardest of times is not the route to go.


You not going to sit one day and we're going to have elliptically you gather some bars and you're like, can you do a cocktail but make it a full alcohol?


Oh, I cannot wait for that day. Suzanne, thank you so much for your time and for sharing your story.


Thanks for having me.


Thank you so much for listening.


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