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Everyone, welcome into the fantasy pro football podcast. My name is Kyle Yates and I am your host. I'm joined, as always by my co-host, Mike Tagliani. No insults for me today, buddy. You can find both of us on Twitter at Kyly NFL and Mike Tagliani, NFL. Hey, Tagg's, you remember that time when the Jets traded for Caitlyn Bloche?
I do. And it was just yesterday. If you guys missed it, it's a joke that keeps on giving. I mean, I don't know where we can go with that at this point. I don't think anything would be a surprise. Like if they if they signed Devonta Freeman today, I wouldn't be shocked at all just because it seems like he's collecting these running backs that. But Devonta Freeman never played in Miami. I guess he's trying to recreate his Miami days that got him fired.
I don't know. It just makes me feel like the guy that, you know, he almost wants to get fired from his job. I don't get it.
Adam Yazaki symbologist one point eight yards per carry last season. It was like, hey, I got to have that. But, hey, we've got an awesome guest for you guys today. That's Ian Hartnett's of Pro Football Focus. He can be found on Twitter at Eyharts. He's also the self-appointed president of the Cordarrelle Patterson Fan Club. And thanks for taking some time out of your day to chat with us.
Maybe the Bears RB one guys. We'll see. But yeah, it's good to good to be back on here. Always enjoy talking with the fantasy pros game for sure.
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If you're a new user for any of these daily fantasy sites, monkey knife fight fand or draft kings and enter a contest. That's it again. That's fantasy prose dotcom offers. All right, guys, there are a couple of news items that I do want to touch on. Just super briefly before we talk about league winners, a Joe Mixon missed practice again today with a minor injury. They said it's migraines again. But Tagg's, are you starting to get concerned?
I am a little bit and I said this yesterday that I didn't want to speculate on it. But Zach Taylor came out in the press today and said he does not believe that Joe Mixon absences were because of the the contract situation. When you say I don't believe that doesn't mean you don't know for certain. He doesn't know for certain that it's not due to that. He said that Mixon has been transparent throughout this process and and what he wants done.
But again, there is language in the CBA that there's some loopholes because if a player sits out for the entire season, he doesn't accumulate that year towards free agency. But there is some language in there that I've been told that if a player has a minor injury and he can't play that, it's he still would accrue that year. So this this is a weird situation and it's starting to irk me a little bit and to the point where I'm moving him further and further down and drafts, especially if you're drafting this week.
And if we don't have any clarity, the idea is that in the first and second rounds, you do not need to win your draft in the first second round, you don't. You need to make sure that you have stable presences in your lineup. And imagine, for whatever reason, if you had a Melvin Gordon situation on your hands and Joe Mixon doesn't play for the first four to six weeks because he's holding out due to a minor injury or whatever the case may be.
So, yes, I am moving him down my board a little bit.
Ian, are you concerned as well? Is this something where if you're drafting this weekend, right, and this is all the news that we have to go off of, are you looking at Joe Mixon in the first round still or are you how far does he have to fall for you to consider him?
I'm kind of attacks here. I mean, just go by ADP, take the sure. Things in the first round or two. The same thing with, like, Dalvin Cook. Well, I'm not going to drop these guys outside my top twelve or anything like that. But you know, the conversation like Chubb versus Mix Mix and secular. I'm going to take those other guys right now because this is where this is funky. And you know what, Dalvin Cook and Chef the kind of wondering if he doesn't get a new contract, what's going to happen there?
I'm putting Cordoba's letter over Cook, so. Yeah. And I'll just take the safer option. I would you know, just on a separate note, don't be so I guess, jump you to go get Giovani Bernard and assume he's going to step in to that mix. And I think we're going to see another two back committee with Travian Williams if Nixon does. This time and Travian could actually be the guy that gets the bulk of those carries, so I realize, you know, in past years when Jeremy Hill or mix in this time, Geode did get some featured roles, but that was under a different coaching staff and he had quite a few less miles on the tires.
So I think, you know, mixin and I'm not going to be lining up to draft him. And also, don't be so sure that this could be a one back backfield if he does.
In fact, this time it's good insight. Additionally, guys, Ronald Jones left bucks practice earlier today with an apparent left foot injury. We don't know anything more at this point, but we're hoping that it's nothing serious. I just wanted to make sure that we mentioned it on the show today. Again, that's another thing that if you're drafting this weekend and you start to see Ronald Jones's CDPR come up, that might just be something to consider and pay attention to on Twitter, you know, will be on on Twitter, at Kiawah NFL, at Mike Tagliani NFL.
I'm sure we're going to be talking about if any news does come out about Ronald Jones.
All right, guys, let's get into the content for today's show. We are looking at league winners, these guys who could emerge from the mid to late rounds and help lead people to fantasy football titles. Right. This may mean that some things need to fall their way, but they absolutely have a chance of leading your roster to a fantasy football championship. We're going to talk about two running backs, each two wide receivers, one quarterback and one tight end.
And I'm sure there will be some overlap in these guys. Right. But we should get through plenty of players here. Ian, we'll we'll let you kick us off as you're our guest. And then we can go to Tagg's and then we'll just keep going around the room. Yes.
Starting off with QB, my late round, you know, middleground QB that I think could be a league winner is Mr. Joe Burrough one point zero one. And look, since 2010, we've seen six rookie QB post QB one numbers Camden and Andrew Luck, RG three, Dak Prescott, Russell Wilson and most recently, Calamar. In the main things from that group were there all week one starter and they all average at least twenty five rushing yards and college roommates, both those criteria.
He was at twenty seven rushing yards per game and LSU. No one is going to confuse him with Cam or Tyler as a rusher. But you know, especially when you consider like how collegiate rushing totals, you know, you're losing yardage when he gets sacked. It's impressive and he gives you a decent floor there. And then once you just start to look at the offense, I mean, AJ Green, Tyler Boyd, John Roth, my guy on T t Higgins, you know, missionary's their job.
And there's a lot of skill, position, talent for a team that just finished with the worst record in the league. And, yeah, the offensive line even getting Jonah Williams back, it's an issue. But honestly, like his defense is probably still going to suck. This is one of just nine teams that throw the ball at least six hundred times last season. Seems to me like a similar situation to Colorado. We all have that same level of rushing floor, but it's going to be an offense that's going to have to ask Burro to do as much as he can from day one.
It's a bad enough defense out there consistently being comeback mode and still going at the bottom. These drops, I mean, I feel like I'm being a little bit like pessimistic with his talent because the other side of things is Barea, who just had the best season we pretty much ever seen from a collegiate quarterback playing like that from day one. So in terms of the late round quarterbacks available, man, give me give me Buhrow over any of these, you know, kind of aging veteran ties with no rushing for eight days of the week.
Tagg's I mean, Jubera, we've talked about him. The talent is there. And everything that Ian said is completely correct, that he could be this guy that emerges. But do you have concerns about drafting him? Right. He's QB sixteen, I think, off the board right now. Last time I checked in ADP, the Chargers Defense Week one, Cleveland's defense, which is not a shabby defense, right? I think that's fine. It doesn't scare me off as much as the Chargers and then the Eagles defense in week three.
Then, of course, he gets Jacksonville in week four, start up Joe Burrow. Holy crap. But like, does this concern you about drafting him or do you think he's going to be one of these guys, especially with no off season, that it takes a while for him to get to the point where he can win you a league?
Yeah, Barea was one of the guys that actually contemplated for this the section, because I don't think people realize just the type of rushing upside that he does present. And if you go back and watch his college film, it was one of my biggest knocks on Barrow is that he needs to protect himself a very Tony Romo type player where he's a guy that can I think people forget the beginning of Tony Romo's career. He has some ability to his game, but he took a lot of hits over those times.
And Joe Burrow was a guy that took a lot of hits in college because he refuses to just slide. I want him to slide more often. I think he needs to learn that Zach Taylor needs to protect him. But having those skill position players like Ian talked about at his disposal, it's one of the reasons I like the Bengals players. But once you get down to it, you say it's like Rumford Johnny on Twitter front of the show. He basically came up with this analogy that I always liked.
And he says every individual skill position player is a pancake. And who's pouring the syrup all over those pancakes? It's Joe Burrow. So if you're in a league and by the way, analysts in the industry are drafting multiple quarterbacks this year, don't let them lie to you. Don't don't tell you they're not. They're doing it because they're worried about the state of the NFL. And if a player gets scratched on Sunday morning, they don't have to worry about going to the waiver wire, not finding a quarterback.
So most people are drafting two quarterbacks this year. If you get someone like Matt Ryan, OK, and then you pair him with someone like a Joe Barrow, that's fantastic, because the idea is like almost the same thing as last year. You can have draft. To someone like Matt Ryan and Lamar Jackson in the later rounds and then just say, all right, we know the upsides there, so why not grab him, keep him on your bench.
And if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out who gives a crap. You spend a, you know, a double digit round pick on him. Joe Burrow's being able to be had and, you know, 13th, 14th round. So I definitely took this call.
All right, Tex, I'm going to turn it right back to you at the quarterback position. Who is someone that you're looking at as a league winner in twenty twenty?
You know, again, I did think about Burrough and then I went to another quarterback that just came out with one of the greatest montages of all time, and that's Gardner Minshew Gardam. And she was a guy he rushed for three hundred and forty two yards last year. I don't think people realize just how high his rushing floor was every single week. And he didn't score any rushing touchdowns because Leonard Fournette got every single carry inside the five yard line for this team.
That's the only player in the NFL. Leonard Fournette was the only player who had 100 percent of his team's carries inside the five yard line. That's going to change under Jay Jay Gruden. If you go back to him with RG three, obviously he was able to make it work with him as a mobile quarterback. And then you move on to Kirk Cousins, Kirk Cousins. People don't realize this. He had like six rushing touchdowns, I think, in back to back seasons under Gruden.
He's willing to give them those goal line carries just to let him get the ball in which you can do that. And just as Ian was talking about with Joe Burrell, the Jets defense is horrible, guys. It's really bad. They've lost so many starters on that team. I know they have a they drafted a lot of defensive talent. They're basically tanking this year. It's very much like the Bucs last year where it's like I know that means she doesn't have the weapons that Jameis Winston did, but he has that rushing ability.
He has five rushing touchdown upside and, you know, growing into his role. Westbrook's a better football player than I think people give him credit for the discussion. All is coming up and into his own. You have Chris Thompson as a receiving option. And if Leonard Fournette can at least improve some efficiency in the passing game, I believe Gardner Minshew is a fantastic QB to to have on your fantasy team, one that probably presents a higher floor right out of the gate than Joe Burrow, but may not present that the massive upside that Burrow does.
But I do think that he's an excellent QB to have on your team.
Yeah, I think I'm sure we could be looking at, you know, the twenty twenty version of what Ryan Fitzpatrick was last year. I mean, the yellow ball gunslinger that's on a bad team and isn't going to flirt with playoff contention or anything. But, you know, guys got the talent around him definitely, you know, be this this year's version of that Devante Parker kind of alpha wide receiver one. And he's going to have every chance to know do his thing.
So he wasn't like he was exactly fearful of anything last season as it was. And yeah, I mean, the rushing upside, it was it was wild to me was that literally all of his production came on scrambles last season. So even just a little bit of creativity from Jay Gruden, you know, in the red zone, like you were talking about, Jags could go a long way with him. So, yeah, I mean, he was the QB twelve weeks, one through nine last season before Nick Foles got back to action.
There's a non-zero chance Minshew is just awesome. That man is like no more entertaining QB to see on social media these days. I'm rooting for it.
Real quick, Yates, I wonder the stat I have here for this cousins for under Jay Gruden from twenty fifteen to twenty seventeen. That's three years. He runs for three hundred and twenty three yards and thirteen touchdowns in those games. Crazy again going back to Minshew he rushed for three hundred and forty two yards, more yards than Cousins had over those entire three years. Didn't score a single rushing touchdown. So I just don't think people are realizing Manchus floor is there and there's a ceiling considering the state of that defense.
Yeah, if we've got the parallel, if Gardner mentioned to Ryan Fitzpatrick, my fear is that Gardner Gardner I'll just say this, Gardner means you better not be leading the Jaguars in rushing. Right. Fitzpatrick Then we've got to go. We've got more of an issue on our hands with Leonard Fournette there. Guys, I'm going to I'm going to mention a quarterback here that there are some health concerns, right? The last time that we saw Cam Newton on the field, it was not pretty.
But if we're talking about a league winner, this guy that if everything goes their way, can absolutely lead you to a fantasy football title. It's Cam Newton and you're talking about him in this Patriots offense where they've signed him to a one year deal, a one year private deal. And this team is not going to be as good as it was last year. They saw several key pieces opt out on that defense. Now it's Bill Belichick. So I could absolutely eat my words there.
But with their coaching philosophy here, I think they're just going to look at Cam Newton, say we're going to do whatever it takes to win games this year. And if that means writing you into the ground, then so be it. Because we have you on a one year deal. You might not be our long term answer at the position. Cam Newton is only thirty one years old guys now and granted, like, his body has been through a lot.
But we're also talking about a guy who is practically Superman. Right. Like he has been training like none other this offseason. So I love his matchup right out of the gate against Miami in week one, the rushing ability and rushing upside at the quarterback position for fantasy football is so crucial and it Cam Newton presents that like none other. So I think for him, if he can stay healthy all season, I think he's going to drastically outperform where he's being drafted.
He's someone that I love targeting at the quarterback position. Tagg's, I know that you are a little bit more hesitant on Cam Newton, so I'll just throw this to you. But can you see the path for him to be a league winner in twenty twenty? I mean.
Yeah, sure. I just think it's. Betting against like what's happened in history, and I was watching an interview with Cam Newton the other day and he seems like he's got his head together, he looks like you lost weight, too. I don't know if that was by design. I don't know if it's because he obviously is getting older and he wants to make sure that he's not as achy when he's moving around, because the more weight you carry as you get older, that the more difficult it is.
And he was always a physical specimen that you wondered how he was able to move the way he did at whatever 260 pounds or whatever he was. But Kim, I mean, I think we all want to see him re-enter that conversation. I just don't know if it happens at 31 years old. Ian, what's your take on Cam Newton like? He's one of the most difficult players for me to to rank this year just because, you know, the player that he was in fantasy football, the player that we last seen him as, and then knowing as a mobile quarterback, getting further along in his career if he doesn't have his legs as much as he used to, is his ceiling really there?
I'm a Kyle.
I mean, you know, before come on the show, I highlighted three quarterbacks in my rankings to potentially talk about, and they were Burrow Cam Newton and Gardner Minshew. So I'm pretty much the same page as you guys here. But now I've had Cam rank. I just I mean, he's been QB thirteen for me since he signed with the Patriots. I mean, people that, you know, were out there thinking that it was really going to be a competition that cam healthy cam wasn't capable of winning.
I mean, I just I don't know what to tell you, but I just look, whenever he has been out there, even moderately healthy, he has been a borderline fantasy QB one out worse. I understand the weapons on Great in New England. And yeah, it's not going to be the best version of the patients were ever seen. But, you know, until 2018, 2019, which is unfortunate because. That's right. When the health concerns started for Cam.
But those Panthers teams and God forbid, want to go all the way back to the Auburn team, he dragged to a national title like Nebahat Great Weapons. You can make an argument that Harry Sunu and outliner like a top two or three wide receiver, a group of Cam's career, even if they're like, you know, bottom five unit in the NFL right now. So, yeah, maybe we'll get the same sort of rushing upside. But I think Cam still has like a decent way to fall, you know, in order for him to kind of meet his ADP.
If we get sixteen games out of camera, he's going to smash that ADP. No questions asked.
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All right, guys, let's move on to the running back position here. We'll go twice around the room, so. And you get first crack here. Who are you looking at at the running back position as a potential league winner?
So the more I look at it, I think Damian Harris is just especially with this new news coming out from Patriots camp. He's worth a flyer, especially as long as the ADP doesn't creep up too high. And you just you look at what the pages have done in recent seasons with Sony and Sony has been not really down guy in fifteen to twenty plus Russia's per game, while James White and Burkhead soak up the pass down work and I mean, could not have had a better opportunity to smash last year for him to do nothing with that.
He's got the chronic knee issues and then he just got back off peeved off the populace with this foot thing. And David Harris has just been unequivocally, seemingly the star of Patriots camp. So when you can get a guy this late in draft that, you know, again, maybe he's moving off, maybe someone snaps a little bit earlier in your draft, but any time you get to double digit rounds, you can still snag a running back that could reasonably be getting fifteen plus touches per game from week one on.
I think you have to do it in. OK, maybe Cam takes some of the goal line touches. Maybe Harris, who you know, did absolutely nothing last year, just isn't that good of a player. But I mean, you know, like for the same reason, like someone Jordan Howard, like someone like Jordan Howard is a value just because you can't get that many guaranteed touches that lay in the draft. I think Harris is just, you know, worthy of the dart throw for the potential volume alone.
If if you've been listening to this podcast for a couple of. Now, you can go back over a month ago when I was saying that Damien Harris was someone to snag with one of your final round picks and like a ball format, obviously we're now in draft season, has his name is starting to creep up there because Sony, Michel, is someone that they rumored to be potentially on the list. He's obviously been inefficient with the touches that he's been getting.
James White doesn't necessarily fit the skill set of someone like Cam Newton and what he's done over the course of his career. Damien Harris didn't he wasn't on the field a lot last year. And I think a lot of people are going to point to that and say, well, you know, Michelle was there last year and he was very inefficient. The reason that Harris didn't get on the field last year is because he really doesn't play on special teams.
And Bill Belichick wants you to play on special teams. But knowing that he's getting more reps with the ones this year, they could look at him as the Sony Michel replacement and kind of just say, Sony, you might be inactive on game days if you can't get on special teams. So I do like Damien Harris. Unfortunately, it's getting to the point now where is this backfield going to be such a mess that I'm not willing to invest? You know, if he's going to go in the 12th round because last before it was like the last round, whatever, but now it's like it's coming into the territory.
Are you going to choose him over someone like Jalen Reagor? I'm not I'm not willing to do that. But if you're able to get him in that, you know, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen in that territory, I'm OK with it. But again, it seems like Rex Burkhead is going to get some touches back here. James White is obviously still around. Cam Newton being signed did affect that a little bit, too. So I'm not as high on him as I was.
But you still have a chance to get a starting NFL running back in double digit rounds. So it's still it's still quite the value. So I'm definitely on board with this one.
Yeah, I love bringing him up in this conversation because there is a path. Right. And that's what the qualification that we said earlier, the path to get to the point where they can help lead you to a fantasy football championship when you have someone who's a starting running back for you and he's going in the 14th round currently of ADP, that's going to help you. Right. Especially if you experience some injuries to the to the top guys that you drafted in the first second round.
Did the running back position. The the counterargument here with Damien Harris is that this backfield is a mess, like as far as like it is very, very crowded. And you have Rex Burkhead is going to be involved. He's going to see touches. You have Sony, Michel, who did he come back to early off the pump? That can certainly be a thing where he saw, OK, I might actually lose this job to Damian Harris. I got to come back early.
So is he fully healthy? But he's as long as he's on the field, he's going to see touches, too, unless Damien Harris just outright beats him. James White is going to take down passing work. So it just there's a huge mess here, right. From a fantasy perspective for us to sift through. But I think as far as I like Ian throwing him out because there is a path if everything goes his way. So I like that.
So, Tagg's, let's go to you here for the running back position. Who do you want to bring up? I'm going to take the easy one here. It's a layup. I know it. But at the same time, it's it's the reason that I'm willing to draft him maybe around before his ATP. And that's Kareem Hunt. That's it's kind of a mid round pick. And I know it's it's the easy way out. But again, it's a conversation that someone brought up on Twitter.
And I wish I remember who it was because I always feel bad when I don't give him credit for it. But someone brought up that Kareem Hunt is the only backup running back that I would actually rank higher than the starter if the starter went down, because like if Zeke Elliott went down twenty Paola doesn't walk into to be the number three overall pick in drafts. You know, you go through everybody on that list. But Kareem Hunt, if if something happened to Nick Chubb and he missed time, Kareem Hunt would go before Nick Chubb is going in draft right now.
So fortunately, under Kevin Stefanski, this is a team, I should say the Vikings were a team that was running the ball. Their running backs were touching the ball. Thirty two and a half times per game. That leaves so much to go around here that Browns defense should be better. I'm not going to say that they've ever lived up to the talent and now they have some injuries going on in that secondary, including the linebacking corps. So they should be touching the ball thirty times.
So even if Nick Chubb is getting, you know, seventeen, eighteen touches, that leaves twelve, thirteen for Hunt. And we know he's very he's a very efficient with those touches they improve the offensive line. And so you basically draft him as an R B three flex type option and then you're like, OK, I don't feel great about it. He's not going to win your fantasy league by being there, but he's not going to hurt you that much either because he's going to get those he's going to have that floor of touches.
But again, if something happens to Chubb, he has that immense feeling like where if Nick Chubb was not in the picture, everyone right now would be drafting Kareem Hunt probably as the number forth running back off the board.
I was just about to ask you that question in where would Kareem Hunt be going if Nick Chubb wasn't in the picture this year? You know, I think CMCs probably number one, but then does he go above Shaquana in your mind?
I would probably go say on Zeke then Hunt. But I mean, the fact he's there, like there's not another number two RB in the league that would have the higher ceiling. Yeah, I've almost left him, like, out of handcuff discussion because he has that standalone value. And I know some people are thrown out of that house. The fans, he never really used Dalvin Cook and Alexander Mason on the field the same time. But, you know, different different talents on your roster calls for different situations.
And Kareem Hunt is truly one of his running backs that you want to get on the field on the same time as your other running back. And he can do that. I mean, he spent thirty three percent of his snaps in the slaughter out wide last season. Only Tarik Cohen had a higher mark on that. I mean, also was at twenty six percent. This is truly a guy that can be your slot wide receiver being a wide receiver, three and the.
We look at the Browns and like, what did they do with their pretty gaping hole wide receiver three years off seasons? Nothing. I mean, OK, Rashard Higgins is back. They drafted Donovan Peoples Jones in the sixth round. But if anything like their lack of attention to that wide receiver three spot, the entire offseason, you know, makes me more confident that Hunt will have a large weekly role. He's just too good to keep on the bench.
And yeah, even if it's only a flex kind of story, as long as Chubb's healthy. Good God, man. I mean, that dude is going to be a tough guy projection every week if somehow it's a job.
I had absolutely no idea that he spent that much time in the slot last year. That's insane. And especially to you mentioned it in like with this. I'm so glad that you mentioned that Rashard Higgins and Donovan Peebles Jones, those are not guys that are going to come on to the field if you have Jarvis Landry and Odell Beckham and you can put Kareem Hunt out in the slot, especially if they utilized him in that fashion last year. Now, again, a different coaching staff.
But there's been news this offseason that Hunt's been working with the wide receivers. Right. So I think that can absolutely happen. Where we see Hunte move into the slot or move around the formation, they're going to get him the ball because he is just that talented. He can absolutely have this standalone value. And I do like where you said that top four is probably where I would have it.
And they tend and they also tended him in the second round price. So they weren't just giving him away as a restricted free agent. So clearly they have a role for him for sure.
All right. I'm going to bring up Alexander Madison. And this is we talked about Dalvin Cook earlier. There's potential that he holds out this season. Alexander Madison is going in the 10th or 11th round in ATP right now. Guys, that is an absolute smash pick for me every single time, because especially if I end up drafting Dalvin Cook earlier and I was just doing a live stream with Dan right before we're recording here and I was, I was talking to him.
We got to ask the question. He said, where would you take Alexander Madison if you did end up drafting Dalvin Cook. And I said I would take him two rounds before that, before his average draft position right now, which would mean that I'd be taking Dalvin Cook in like the ninth, maybe eighth round in some cases, because I want pieces of this backfield on a team that is going to run the ball as much as they are. And Madison showed that he can hang in the NFL.
He is a very, very talented running back. And so he can you can assume this workload if Cook does miss. Now, granted, he's not going to have this standalone value that Kareem Hunt potentially would. I think that, you know, Madison is just going to see, you know, maybe, what, eight to ten carries per game. That's probably just not enough to plug in, maybe on by weeks. But oh man, if Dalvin Cook misses, we are talking about an absolute league winner, a top ten running back at the position in my opinion.
I was talking to actually a Vikings beat reporter yesterday, Matthew Coller, and one of my main questions for him was if Ameer Abdullah would make the team because I just wasn't sure if it cooks out of the picture. I know Mattis is a great runner, but like we saw last year when it was time for Boone to step off, that they actually end up splitting things with him, Abdullah. And from from Coller, what he was saying, man, is that matters.
And one of the things he's really impressed coaches with throughout training camp is pass blocking. I know that's something that, you know, a bunch of fast analysts don't care about. And a lot of times, you know, I get angry when it does, you know, take a talented player off the field when you know, you're trying to force them to do something they can't do. But either way, Mason has done enough to convince the coaching staff that he can be a three down back.
And I mean, again, his brother couldn't have been more confident that Madison would be a true three down a workhorse in the event that Dalvin misses time. So absolutely. I think all these handcuffs, I might touch on another one here in a minute, but give me any of these like two, three down handcuffs over guys like, you know, Phillip Lindsey, Marlon Mack. Carry on. Johnson who? OK, they're going to have a role week to week.
But I mean, even with an injury, they're still going to be stuck, you know, in a two or three back committee, someone like Alexander Mason, where if disaster strikes, I mean, OK, we're we're really locked in RB one the rest of the season. Oh, yeah.
If we see DeAndre Swift go down with an injury, you know, of course, God forbid. But like, if we see that happen, carry on. Johnson is not assuming this giant workload, not with his injury history. Right. You're going to see both Scarboro factor and you're going to see Ty Johnson factor in right like that. Carry on. Johnson doesn't possess this huge upside. He could have a role week in, week out. But it's going to be very similar to what Madison is going to possess.
But again, Madison has this potential that he could absolutely hit later on. OK, so, Ian, let's go back to you. I believe we're up here for your second running back.
Yeah, I'm going to go. I only kind of threw down handcuff. I retire and that's Octavia's. Murray was talking. Gotcha. We we saw this dude last season, only two games. Kamara, Miss, I believe, who is the you know, our overall RB two and RB three in those weeks. And it was just really surprising to see what he could do as a receiver because, I mean, previously in his career, he was playing with McKinnon and then, you know, he had the Oakland teams that were also using a scatback.
And the narrative was that he was just this early down grinder that would never really be able to have this three down role. I mean, the Duke got fourteen passes in those two games where he was the featured guy. So Sean Payton cleared, were more than happy to treat him, as, you know, the two, three down workhorse. And look, he's not going to have a ton of standalone value the rest of the time, but he was still good for a coming.
Eight to 10, 12 touches per game, and while that's not, you know, what you're feeling good about in the flex and the right match up, and especially just inside a Saints offense, I mean, there's worse guys you can have there. So, again, I'm in kind of same reasoning as I like Madison. Even if Latavius is going to be in the starting lineup, a lot of times, you know, look, it's your job.
And this dude around nine, 10, something around there probably where you're shooting for the moon with Upside's. So Latavius, you know, few guys, I think, have a higher ceiling. If they're RB, one goes down. Yep.
You stole them. I mean, I had three running backs down in case someone stole one. But you've stolen two of mine with Damien Hirst. Latavius Murray. Latavius is a discounted Kareem Hunt, in my opinion. You know, he's a guy that should have actually I actually believe he's actually going to have more flex value than people believe. If you look at the Saints and you go back to twenty thirteen through twenty eighteen, OK, here's the rushing attempts for Saints running backs starting back in 2013.
And watch this escalate 347 three fifty eight three sixty 371 three eighty six three eighty seven. And then you get to twenty nineteen. It went to three twenty six. This offense, clearly they changed a bit with Teddy Bridgewater under center. They didn't run as many plays with Bridgewater under center. It was just a different team. Right. And I believe that this team starts going back Drew Brees in the final year that he's going to be playing football.
Obviously there's a decline there that's going to happen. I know he's completing a ton of passes still, but they're in a much lower average depth of target than the league averages. His deep ball is starting to drop off a little bit. So I do believe this team turns back to somewhat of a run heavy approach with the defense where they're at because they have one of the best defenses in the NFL. I don't think many people realize that. And going back to as recent as twenty seventeen, the Saints had two running backs that finished as top six fantasy running backs, Mark Ingram and Alvin Kamara.
So Latavius Murray, I think he's going to offer flex value most weeks and obviously with Alvin Kamara were to go down. You know, he's he's not in Kareem Hunt territory, but you'd have him going at the back end of the first round with Alvin Kamara wasn't in the picture.
Guys, check this out. So half PPR, Sony, Michel, RB, thirty off the board, Matt Breeda, RB. Thirty two off the board. James White RB. Thirty five. Marlon Mack RB. Thirty seven. Keyshawn Vaughn RB. Thirty eight. Carry on Johnson RB. Thirty nine. Darryl Henderson RB forty three. Alexander Madison RB forty four and Latavius Murray at RB forty five. I would take both Madison and Murray above all of those guys that I just listed.
I don't know where you guys are at, but I want Latavius Murray and I want Alexander Madison on my rosters this year for sure.
Madison is he's more of a handcuff. I don't think he provides any flex value. It cooks in the field, but he's a tier lower. But he's one of those high end handcuffs. I got Tony Pollard. Yeah.
I think I'm the only guy you listed that's even in the conversation is great. Otherwise, no, both those guys are all of them.
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All right, guys, since tags, you mentioned Latavius Murray alongside Ian, who was also Latavius Murray was also on my list. I am just going to throw out JK Dobbins because I think Dobbins is this guy that if we're talking about week in and week out value, I think he's going to be more in the camp of Alexander Madison than a Latavius Murray, right where we just talked about those two players. And we said that Latavius Murray can have some week in and week out value.
Madison is probably one of these guys that you're holding on your bench for the majority of the season. You can roll it on by weeks. But looking at JK Dobbins, if something happens to Mark Ingram, we are talking about Jaquet Dobinson as a top five potential at the position. I believe in this offense, he is going to assume the majority of the workload with Gus Edwards factoring in. I think you I believe that you'd see Justice Hill factor in, too.
But Jackie Dobbins is a three down back in the NFL. I love his talent, loved him coming out of Ohio State. Now he's in the arguably the best offense in the NFL. I mean, what's the best offense in the. Village, Kansas City, it's Baltimore and maybe throw Dallas into that conversation like those are the three that you want pieces of, right, as far as these? Well, OK, Atlanta just does it on the back of passing.
So I think, you know, looking at those offenses, those are the ones that you want pieces of, particularly for fantasy football. And so if you can get J.K. Dobbins at a bit of a discount and he has this immense upside, that's someone that I would love to have, especially if I draft Mark Ingram in the fourth or fifth round.
So here's the thing. I'm going to ask you guys a question real quick. I started doing my research for week one. Do you guys know what the off the top of your head don't look at it. Mark Ingram, what was the percent of time-Share he had with Gus Edwards and Justice Hill? Like, what would you say? Would you say at 70, 30, 60? Like, what would you say that time share was already have pulled up?
How you go for it? It's going to be something like fifty five to, you know, whatever it was. Fifty to forty eight. Hey there we go. Ingram had two hundred and twenty eight touches. Those two others combined for two hundred and six touches. That's my concern with Dobbins is that I don't know if he ever gets into elite territory because Mark Ingram basically was as efficient as you could possibly be. Lamar Jackson is due for some rushing touchdown regression towards the mean and Ingram finishes the RB eight last year.
So Dobbins, I don't think even if Ingram were to miss, like, let's say that Ingram would have missed the season. I think Dobbins for me would be in the conversation around RB fifteen. I don't think I'd be willing to go higher than that just because this is a backfield that does want to utilize Gus Edwards, you know, Justice Hill, Justice Hill's, whatever, but he's still going to get a couple of touches per game. So and again with Lamar Jackson.
So you're talking about like a four way time-Share to share.
I think here's the thing to keep in mind with last year is that the Ravens blew out so many different teams on so many different occasions where you saw Mark Ingram didn't have Keris in the fourth quarter. Right. Like, you know, he was just he was done for the day. And that's when you saw Gus Edwards get work and that's when you saw justice. No. Edwards factored in, you know, throughout the game. But it wasn't anything substantial.
It was when you saw Ingram leave the game and sit, you know, along with the rest of the starters that you saw Gus Edwards factor in. So those those numbers are a bit skewed, in my opinion, because, again, you did have the Ravens blowing a ton of teams out that that led to Edwards and hell, getting a little bit more work where I think if you're looking at it and saying that that's unsustainable, I just think that it's unsustainable for the Ravens to blow out that many teams two years in a row that they're going to need their starters on the field even more than they did last season, that you would see Dobbins get more work, in my opinion.
Yeah, the path to success is he gets, you know, was nine ish carries per game. He also gets Justice Hill's for his touches per game. And then we have, you know, Dobbins flirting with 12 to 15 touches inside of one of the league's best offenses. That would be fantastic. But I'm just not convinced, like tags that we get, you know, this to RB system. I think Edwards is going to be involved. And one of the craziest stats I saw this offseason, courtesy of JJ Zacharias in a late round QB, we hear the only running backs in NFL history with at least one hundred times during each of their first two seasons in our yards per carry rate at or above five.
Barry Sanders, Clinton Portis, Nick Chubb and Gus freakin average. I know he's not blowing anyone away. I mean, you pulled the highlight reel and you're not going to be super duper impressed. But he's just the exact type of incumbent talent that I don't think is going to be, you know, benched by the coaching staff. So, you know, they've got the Dobens around to be silly, not to get involved. And, you know, apparently he's been standing out training camp and all that, but just really seems like another three by committee.
Ingram is going to be the lead guy again. I think twenty twenty one is when we see Dobbins really take that step forward and be a true fantasy stud.
I just want to ask you this real quick in Dobbins is going off the board is the RB. Thirty six right now sandwiched between James White and Marlon Mack and then Keyshawn Bond right around there, too. Like, is that too rich for you at RB? Thirty six. How far would you have to fall for you to consider pulling the trigger?
I think that's fine. He's actually he was I feel like going in the more mid twenty range he was after the draft and he's he's been falling to a point that I'm fine taking a stab on him, particularly like in Kyprolis. I mean, again, Ingram's contract is up. So if you can get him, you know, at a reasonable price, he is going to be absolutely bombi top twenty twenty one comes around. So at that spot, I mean, that's fine.
And then, you know, I'm a little more if Ingram's out of the picture, even with Edwards and he'll probably keeping a three back committee, I do think Dobbins would be the undisputedly guy and do all sorts of good things. So RB thirty six yards one.
All right. Let's move over to wide receivers, guys. So let's take a look. Ian, I'm just going to throw it right back to you. So wide receiver that you believe can be a league winner.
We'll do two of these, each from Tagg's hometown squad. I like Anthony Miller.
Dude, you're the worst I could not like. You're literally reading off my wrist and it's killing me.
I love me some Tony Miller. I mean, this dude scored I blew seven touchdowns as a rookie while playing through a bum shoulder. Starts off last season. You know, Naggie tries to start Tarricone in the slot. He's not getting much going on. Then Taylor Gabriel goes down, you know, about halfway through the season and four weeks, like eleven through fifteen. Miller was like the PPR wide receiver. Age is completely born and OK, it's not really fair to take, you know, the best four week stretch of a guy's career and just assume he's going to do that before.
But, you know, they've switched Taylor Gabriel with Tegan, which to me is a pretty clear sign that, you know, Gwen is going to be more of a true field structure, just kind of sidepiece versus Gabriel, you know, is actually there kind of a no to pass game off some more weeks to not. And OK, let's take a look at the QB situation. Miller is true, Bishkek's most efficient receiver of his career in terms of adjusted yards per attempt.
We've seen them do the thing together. And then Nick Foles, I mean, this time last year, we had Dede Westbrook being talked up as a top thirty fantasy receiver purely because of Foles historical, you know, tendency to really feed his slot receivers. So, you know, it's a situation where we, you know, he's like a discount. Calvin Ridley almost. It's a talented third year player. We've seen produce at a high level and his offense is without one of their top receivers from the season before that, it really didn't do anything to replace him.
So, you know, I read some things from a local media saying Miller, you know, just before really wasn't, you know, able to understand the whole depth of the playbook and didn't have the coaches trust. Seems like he's done a good job of turn those issues around. And I mean, at his price on the other tag's wide receiver.
Fifty four off the board. Hmm. I see no way that he finishes anywhere near that number. He's going to be well above that. I love Anthony Miller this year as well. Tagg's, it sounds like you agree.
I'm just I'm just I just had the wind taken out of my sails. It's gone now. I obviously love the call. And I was going to say, I think it's rare to find a wide receiver being drafted outside the top 50 that has a clear path to one hundred targets. And, you know, it's something that I mentioned with Devante Parker last year. And I understand that people were mad at Parker and all this and that. And people are mad at Miller for whatever reason, because he wasn't put on the field by Matt Nagy, but is a guy that's rededicated himself this offseason.
They say that he's grown up, matured quite a bit, and that he's like showing that he wants to be one of the best. The talent was always there with Anthony Miller even going back to Memphis. He was a a crazy high touchdown scorer and on a target for target basis. He's been just as efficient as someone like Robert Woods has over the last two years. It's just the targets weren't there. So you add in a healthy offseason, you add in, you know, the motivation to get better.
This is the third year in the league, you know, with with double the chance that competent quarterback play. Anthony Miller was definitely on my list. Agreed.
All right. Let's send it right back to you, wide receiver. Oh, I know that.
I have to throw up a little bit. I'm going to I mean, I'm not going to talk about AJ Green. I've talked about him enough as a middle round guy that I absolutely love this year. And I have had a lot of my teams. But I'm going to go to someone that we have not talked about a lot just because I want to talk about someone that I haven't. Brandin Cooks Brandin Cooks has gone from Drew Brees to Tom Brady to Jared Goff and now to Sean Watson.
And this might be the the chance that he has for the most targets he's ever had, you know, willful or someone that has been unable to stay on the field. Does, you know, does Fuller get most of the targets when they're both in the lineup? Yeah, probably because there's some familiarity with Deshaun Watson to this offense. But don't forget that, you know, Randall Hobbs new to this offense. David Johnson is new to this offense.
Duke Johnson doesn't really use at all. So Brandin Cooks is a guy that's gone from team to team and continually produced. I know that the the concussions last year seem to add up and then he wasn't on the field and this and that. But we have a history of production from this guy. And now he's going to play with maybe I mean, I'm just going to say at the time that he played with Brady, in the time that he played with Goff, I think that Deshaun Watson is a better quarterback than those guys are at the stage in his career.
So I'm going to say he's going to his best quarterback since Drew Brees days. And again, on a team that has one of the the worst defenses out there, like we saw the Texans continually take a step back, like with their secondary. It's just there's so many moving parts here. And then they lose the biggest piece over the middle TJ reader on their defensive line. That's going to hurt quite a bit. So this this defense is going to allow plenty of points.
You're going to see Deshaun Watson dropping back, buying time. Brandin Cooks is a guy that continually finds separation. He's actually he's fast, sure, but he's actually one of the smartest front runners out there. He knows how to sit in the zone. He understands defensive coverages. So I think that's why you continue to see him as a productive individual. So I'm going to say that Brandin Cooks is a guy that could potentially see one hundred and twenty plus targets and you're able to get him.
His current draft is ninety one overall, which means you're talking about, you know, the eighth round roughly to get Brandin Cooks as your wide receiver for something like that. I just think that there's a clear path to where he can actually win you a fantasy title.
Tagg's, I'm shocked that you didn't mention Wil Fuller. I anticipated that he was going to be someone that you bring up. And instead you talk about Brandin Cooks, which I'm in agreement with here. In which side of this argument do you land on? Do you believe that? Let's talk just talk about league winning upside. Do you think it's Brandin Cooks or do you think it's Wil Fuller?
I mean, I think it can be both, because both these guys are being priced as like wide receiver three, if not wide receiver fours. Even throw Cobb in there. I mean, if you're one of those people, I just think Fuller and cooks are going to get hurt. I mean, Deshaun Watson is going to put up numbers is just a matter of figuring out who. And I mean these Texans, I say to a lesser extent, the Giants receivers have stuck out to me all offseason because they are all being priced near their floor.
I mean, there's no way cooks and Fuller, I'm going to smash their. ADP's with a healthy season and everyone that wants to say they're going to get hurt, well, that's why they are so cheap. But they have that upside. Like, why are you going to drive something you for condom receiver like Jamison Crowder over Brandin Cooks, who we've seen do it and, you know, going like looking at last season, one of my biggest misses was just, you know, assuming top five upside from LBJ.
And for that reason, you know, I've been a little wary of drafting DeAndre Hopkins as a true wide receiver one. But like, we don't have to draft cooks as a wide receiver one. And I went back all the way to 2010, looked at every single instance of a wide receiver being traded during the off season and got the, you know, corresponding, you know, finish the following year. Brandon Marshall is the only guy to turn in like actual wide receiver one production.
But you look at the top four seasons and coaches responsible for two of them. In twenty seventeen, he turned into a wide receiver. Fifteen season twenty eighteen. Let's try it again. He turns in the wide receiver thirteen season. So we've seen the guy produce all over the place. I don't see why Houston would be any different.
All right, guys, I am going to bring up Deonte Johnson here looking at Deontay Johnson in Pittsburgh. This is a guy that I want shares of in twenty twenty. Deonte Johnson was excellent last season with Mason Rudolph and Doug Hodges as his cornerbacks guys. And now we're talking that we get Ben Roethlisberger back healthy. Ben Roethlisberger. Yeah, I want pieces of this offense, and especially when you factor in that chase. Claypole was not a guy that I was super impressed with coming out.
I thought he was more of this tight end. You know, I actually liked him more as a move tight end. I didn't like him as an outside receiver, but the Pittsburgh Steelers drafted him to be that. He's going to be this outside receiver that presents a big body presence so they can move Juju back into the slot, which leaves Deonte Johnson on the outside. James Washington, I think, will come out of the field in certain instances to stretch the field.
But it's Johnson and Juju from a target perspective that are going to lead this team here in Pittsburgh this year. And so in a high, potentially high scoring offense, again, it all kind of hinges on Roethlisberger. But even if Roethlisberger is down, we know that Donte Johnson is still going to be fine. I think that Johnson has top fifteen upside. If Roethlisberger locks on to him and trusts him, which from all indications it is, it's looking like he does.
So to go for him to be going off the board as a wide receiver. Forty three and a half PPR, ADP right now. Again, we talk about a smash selection for me. I'm hitting that draft button everywhere.
Yep. I've been clear in my love for Deonte Johnson. I've drafted him in quite a few drafts already. Ian, what's your take on him?
I mean, look, Ben fed both Juju and Antonio Brown, more than 160 targets in twenty eighteen. You know, we it's scary to project multiple wide receivers in the same offense to, you know, both ball out in the same year. But I mean, we've seen an average dating back to twenty ten four point three teammates per season out the wide receiver position, both finish top twenty four performers. I think Pittsburgh can certainly enable that. And look, I mean, Juju played through a bunch of injuries last year.
I don't think enough people kind of put that in the context when talking about it. But even with that said, I mean, Deontay Johnson was a Steelers best wide receiver last year. It would make sense of juju, a healthier version gets back to being that guy, but man like he would. Deontay was the number two wide receiver and broken tackles per touch last season. A behind. And I know you'll get fantasy points for broken tackles, but like for me, they do stand out as something that can really help identify, like who is truly a good player and who had, like, you know, a lucky eight game structure there.
I think that Johnson is the real deal. And yeah, I mean, wouldn't even be shocking if he leads his team in receiving next year.
That's the thing. Like there is an actual path for Deontay Johnson to lead this team in targets. Now, I'm not projecting that, but there's a path for it to happen. And if that does, then we're looking at switching Juju and Donte Johnson in our rankings. Right. And Juju is going up in the top twelve, I think. So it's like there is a path that DeAndre Johnson absolutely just leads your team to a fantasy football championship this season.
I love it. All right, Ian, let's go to you here for the second wide receiver.
Yeah, I'm looking at one of my Ohio State guys, Mr. Perez Campbell, projected Colts wide receiver, two and all the words out of camp. I've just been great. They've always been great out of camp. I mean, last year from this was, I believe, in July where Coach Frank Reich was saying Parris Campbell was making a legit NFL. I'm going to be a stud receiver type plays. And, you know, watching him at Ohio State, the problem was always like, is he actually this wide receiver one or is he you know, this guy's a high school running back or is he someone you just manufacture touches for and trying to get the ball in space?
And, yeah, I'm still not totally convinced he can be, you know, this legit alpha, you know, one hundred fifty target hog. But, you know, all the word out of Holtkamp is that Philip Rivers dunking the ball now more than ever in a lot of that is going to Parascandola. I mean, it'd be surprising to me to see him, you know, not get potentially just five design touches per week, not even take into account, you know, regular target share.
So Ty Hilton apparently is healthy now, but he's already had the setback with a hamstring injury. Michael Pitman's fine. But I think he's playing. I think it's more like. Versus Pa. I think Campbell's spot in the offense is, you know, for sure, locked in there, the injuries last year were kind of flu Heela, he broke a hand. It wasn't anything that I think we need to necessarily expect to impact him moving forward. You talk about guys that can just go, you know, put their foot down and go from zero to 100 in a second.
It's Parris Campbell. So he isn't going so cheap right now. Bacitracin, I think this is like why at least me I about you guys. But I mean, get your Arby's early because there are 50, 60 wide receivers you can talk yourself into this year. Perry's gamble is certainly one of them.
Oh, yeah. I mean, Anthony Miller and Paris Campbell late everywhere has been my strategy. So I love it. Tagg's, I know that you're going to agree with this one. Yeah.
So again, I had five names down and Paris Campbell was one. And I was like I really was hoping he would take Paris Campbellsville because I wanted to talk about my guy. But, Campbell, I think the reason that, you know, I had someone to ask me today and I read it amay if I thought it was pitmen or Paris Campbell is one of the breakout guy in Indianapolis. And I said it was Campbell because it is his second year in this offense.
He did learn it. He was dealing with some injuries last year. This team was extremely high on him in last year's draft. They were psyched to get him in the second round. And knowing that Philip Rivers has traditionally targeted someone over the middle of the field, I don't know if Jack Doyle or Trey Burton does it for Philip Rivers. Where were Paris? Campbell is the guy. You get the ball in his hands, let him do his work again.
Second year in the league, whereas Michael Pittman is trying to overcome that rookie hurdle that a lot of rookies are going to struggle to do because they don't have that preseason action. So it's very possible that Zach Pascal starts over Michael Pittman this year just because of this weird off season and eventually he takes over. But Parris Campbell is clearly in this lineup from day one, so I definitely dig this one.
All right. Well, you said you've got someone that you're really excited to talk about. Let's hear it. Yeah, it comes back to the whole idea that, you know, without injury, can we find a wide receiver, one like on his football team in the double digit rounds? And you're finding that with Jalen Reagor. Jalen Reagor is definitely the best football player on his team at this point. You know, Alshon Jeffery going to start the year on the list.
JJ, I think a whiteside's a bust. That was a terrible pick to begin with. It's funny we look back at that and we say it's hard to you don't want to take someone too much because like scouting prospects is really tough. Right. But to to draft him over someone like DKA, Metcalf made absolutely zero sense. They drafted him over quite a few different players. But we won't get into that. But Deshaun Jackson. Thirty four years old, not a target hog, not a guy that's going to see more than, you know, five to seven targets per game.
So are we looking at the Eagles, you know, wide receiver that's going to lead them in targets, receptions, yards and potentially touchdowns? Yeah, I do. There might be a learning curve. Again, he is a rookie coming into the league, but from everything that we've heard Eagles camp, it's that Carson Wentz absolutely loves him. He talked he compared him to Julio Jones. And it was it was a tongue in cheek type thing. But knowing that he's talking about in that type of company just goes to show how high Carson Wentz is on him.
And they obviously drafted him over someone like Justin Jefferson, who was considered to be a great fit for that Eagles offense. So definitely looking forward to seeing Jalen Reagor on the field. It might be a bumpy road to start out, but in the end, I think he could be this year's version of Terry Mahorn.
Yeah, ties. I mean, if you were the one comparing Riggo to Julio Jones, I scoffed.
I would I would unfollow myself on Twitter right now. But one of the guys on quarterback making a comparison. I mean, it's hard to say that anything other than, like, a great sign. Yeah, I just did a big sweep of just all my ranks yesterday before everyone's fantasy draft week. And Rager was one of the guys who I just have making the biggest climb. I mean, coming into camp, there was talk of, OK, well, he might just be kind of pigeonholed as just a Z receiver, this and that.
And, you know, by all accounts, they move, move around everywhere. It was already, you know, one of the shallowest wide receiver deaf from the rise up earth will probably still be the number one there. But I mean, even taking that into account, if the only other rookie receiver that you can say, you know, has a chance to kind of be in their team's top two like that, clarifies Henry Rugg. So Ragga could even surpass rug's and what he's doing over with and with the Raiders.
So, yeah, I mean, I think we see how once we get back to playing like the twenty seventeen year MVP he was with all the speed that the Eagles have gone and gotten on the field.
So, yeah, man, you know, he was had I think out of all the rookie wide receivers, you know, looking at, you can't just look at his college stats because you have one of the worst clubs. Terrible under. Yeah. Just one on catchable pass after another. So here all the right things out of camp. And, you know, he's definitely been, you know, one of the premier training camp. Roz's at the position.
It's funny if you go to YouTube dotcom slash fantasy pros and you're watching this episode, you'll see me wincing as Tagg's is talking even into his sentence, because the guy that I want to bring up next and I just want to fly through this guy because we've got to hit tight ends with Deshawn Jackson talking about DeSean Jackson. If we're looking at league winning upside, currently going off the board is the wide receiver. Fifty eight. And I mean, this is crazy, too.
Like you're looking at Carson Wentz and and this Eagles offense, which is going to be a very dynamic offense. What's the highest for the wide receivers in this room? Is it Jalen Reagor at like what, fifty. Something like that's just crazy that you have these as as long as. Sean Jackson is on the field, he is going to produce four fantasy football and we saw what he can do in this offense tags mentioned like five to seven targets per game.
Week one last year, what, nine targets, eight receptions, two touchdowns. Like he has this potential that you plug him into your lineup as a flex as long as he's healthy and he's still going to produce for your lineup. Now, granted, he's another year older, but Deshawn Jackson is one of these guys that speed is always going to be there. I just think that speed is always going to be there for this guy that he is going to produce.
So, again, you're drafting him now all the way down outside in the 60s. Right. Or fifty eight or whatever I said. And yeah. Wide receiver, fifty eight. You don't have to rely on him for the entire season, but if you can get him and he plays all 16 games, then you consistently just plug him into your wide receiver three flex spot and you can absolutely take any pass to the House Yop in a year where there's so much uncertainty going into Sunday mornings.
I think he's one of those guys to have on your bench that could you could potentially plug in and just kind of go off. As I mentioned the other day, he's finished as a wide receiver, three or better in 50 percent of his games over the last three years. So he's still a good player. He really is. He doesn't require a lot of volume to get to get it done. And obviously, he works pretty well with Carson Wentz, as we've seen in the one game that we got them together, so.
Right. Yeah, I like Deshaun Jackson, too.
You all right, Ian? Let's go to the tight end position here.
I can barely go on a podcast these days without screaming this dude's name, but draft Chris Arnd in every single league. I want Chris Herndon here, the only rookie times to average at least eight yards per target since two thousand Hernon. Mark Andrews, Gronk Hunter, Henry Heath Miller, Aaron Hernandez, no offense, Jordan Reid, Zach Ertz and George Kittle. What happened last season? He was suspended and then, you know, pulled his hamstring running routes on air.
He played six snaps the whole season, never had a chance. Now you fast forward to this year. Ryan Griffin starts the year on top. Can't can't even get on the field until about a week ago. And asked Adam Gates about the tight end situation. The coach himself said, Chris Herndon is our starting tight end. Even Karpman, the guy's ability to be an on the line tight end I can block. You don't have to worry about taking them off the field.
So couldn't be a more shallow passing game for her to get into. I mean, it would not be surprising at all if Hurndall legit leads this team and targets, you know, every single talk out of Jets camp has been Darnel throwing it to is tied at one all the time and he's still going. It's like the tight end. Eighteen or lower. I mean, OK, if you get Kittel, Kelsi or Andrews', you probably don't even need to have a backup tight end in most leagues.
Just pick someone up later. I get it. But why reach on any of these kind of tight ends, four through ten when you have guys like Herndon available for almost free later? I think Herndon is this year is just obvious. Darumbal or pick as a truly talented tight end that could again, you know, easily surpass that triple digit target mark.
It's they're going to need him in this offense. They are absolutely going to need him with Rashard Perriman, you know, potentially missing time to Denzel Mims, not on the field. And then, yeah, Ryan Griffin just coming back like Darnell loves this tight end. So, Ian, where do you have concerning ranked.
He's my Titan. Thirteen.
OK, I'm not going to agree with the statement just personally that he can potentially lead this team in targets. I think that's Jamison Crowder personally. I just think he's going to see every frickin target that he can handle. But then I think as far as second in this offense, I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if he sees that enough work over Le'Veon Bell. I wouldn't be shocked at all if Chris is second on this team in targets and that if you're chasing things at the tight end position, I'll just say this really quick and then we'll move on tax.
If you're chasing things at the tight end position, you're either chasing touchdown volume, which is what people are doing with drafting Jared Cook in the top ten this year. Right. Because or Gronk. Right. Or you're chasing pure target volume, which is, you know, the Skittles and the, you know, Travis callouses and all that. But then at the later ends, you're looking at targets. And Chris Arnold absolutely could be in line for a huge target shooting this season.
I like to call taxes go to you for the tight end. I just want to offer one piece of analysis on the concerning thing. I understand all the points, but the one glaring negative, his head coach is that Adam Gay. And I don't like that. But moving back over to mine, I'm going to go with Hayden Hurst. That's a given, I think, considering I have not wavered my support of him. As soon as that as soon as that trade happened where the Falcons traded a second round pick for him, I moved him up to I think it was number nine in my TIENEN rankings and and said I would take him over Austin Hooper.
It was considered a hot take at a time. Now it's not. Now it's really not at all. And it's what smart people are doing because they're finally coming around to it. But Hayden Hurst is a guy that you're able to get right. Usually around the ninth round is where he comes off the board. I'm OK taking him in the eighth if you want to. Some people are like you like him so much, would you take him in the seventh?
And I'm like, the more you reach for players that you're removing a lot of that equity. The reason that I like them so much to begin with, and I don't think you should start reaching for players like that, like Darren Waller sometimes falls into the sixth or seventh round and I'll take him there. But if you get into that eighth round, that's where I'm comfortable taking first. Is that next tier tight ends just I mean, there's just so much volume to be had.
This offense, and I said it before, I'll say it again, I think Hayden Hurst is a more talented football player than Austin Hooper. I understand. I'm not I don't expect him to come in from day one and and automatically just sync with Matt Ryan and, you know, become a top five Titan. I don't I don't get that from day one. I think it's going to take a little bit of time. But at the same time, he's a guy that I'm projecting for well over 80 targets.
And if you're getting 80 targets is a tight end, you are automatically in that tight end one conversation, which is again, why I think that Ian brings up. Chris Herndon is a guy that I also had on my list to talk about, but I just can't fully trust Herndon on a week to week basis because Adam Gates is a guy that and I hate to say this, but he clearly holds grudges against players. He really does. And we've seen him hold back players in the past.
And he was he was frustrated with Chris Herndon last season because once he came back from the injury, he basically I don't I remember the exact quote, but said basically he's just not in football shape or something like that. So he was like mad at him. Adam Gas's, certainly a Ticketek guy, and we've seen this year over year. So that's the reason I would rather go with someone like Hayden Hurst.
I don't want to reach on any of these tight ends, you know, after injuries, because they're, you know, viable questions for her. Will he be the number three option, a passing game, or will Russell Gage and Gurley? And I don't think that would be, you know, all that shocking. And I just don't want to spend, you know, any pick before a double digit rounds on him, on Hunter Henry, on Waller, on, you know, Higbee.
There's just so many question with these guys. And I hear you with Herndon. I wouldn't leave a job with Herndon as my only tight end. But you don't have to. You can go through rounds. Fourteen fifteen, though. John Smith in there. You know, I was really fine with Hayden Hurst, like right after the trade, you know, he was kind of being ranked in the teens almost. But people like you, Tagg's, have hyped him up enough so that he's going as this, you know, top nine, top ten, tight end.
And I just feel like at this point that's kind of towards the top of his range of outcomes. I mean, as good as Hooper was last year, I mean, the amount of production that he got while trailing just there is no situation where the Falcons entered Sunday and said, you know, OK, Calvin and Julio, you guys are great, but we're really going to focus on that. Right. So I don't expect that to happen. Now, you know, if Matt Ryan's going to tie for the league lead and pass attempts again, obviously there's more than enough room for all these guys to eat.
So I see the scenario. But, you know, just my overall draft strategy this year has been fading, those middle ground tight ends and then just, you know, taking a few throws at the end.
Yeah. By the way, real quick, guys, while we're on the subject, the tight ends, apparently, George Kittle, he did not practice today due to hamstring tightness. So this is just another kick in the groin for the San Francisco 49ers pass catching group. This is crazy.
You know, they got Kevin White out there. Catch us now, guys. I'm going to mention my tight end really quick. Obviously, Hayden Hurst, Geno Smith there on my list. Right. These are the guys that I want. But if I'm going to look a little bit later, I'm going to talk about Blake Darwan. We talked about the offenses earlier that I want to invest in Dallas, Baltimore, Kansas City. And, yeah, you can throw Atlanta into that conversation.
I want pieces of these offenses. And Blake Darwin, I think I have him ranked as a top twelve tight end. I'm at tight end twelve right now, even with KD Lamb on the field, Michael Gallop, Amari Cooper, Zeke Elliott, Tony Pollard. With all those guys, there's more than enough volume to go round to support Blake Darwin as a top twelve tight end. But then if you lose one of these pieces, if you go down, if you see Amari Cooper, whatever, the ball is going to be spread around where Blake Darwin is going to have to be involved.
So I really, really like his opportunity. I've liked what I've seen on film from him in the instances where he has gotten the ball. And so I think he has this this league winning upside this year. I don't see necessarily a top five finish, but where you're drafting him, which is tied in twenty three, he can absolutely help you. He's you know, he's concerned. And for me, right, Ian, he's this guy that I want to invest later on at that draft price.
All right, guys, that is all we've got for today. Huge. Thank you to Ian Hart. It's we're coming on and talking some league winners with us. Man, I appreciate you taking some time out of your day. Yeah.
I appreciate you guys having me. Make sure everyone out there check out the fantasy football podcast, if you like. What you heard just published my top 300 over at the website as well. So my heart is on Twitter. And thanks, dudes. Always fun to talk about you guys. Absolutely.
I was just about to mention make sure you follow him on Twitter at Eyharts. Mike and I are on Twitter as well at Kiawah NFL and Mike Tagliani, NFL Tagg's, we talked about it. People are most likely going to be drafting this weekend. Any final words of wisdom for the people?
Oh, you know, the people don't know it yet, but we actually had a conversation with Jeff Fisher earlier today that's going to be that's going to be on a podcast that you guys are going to hear in the near future. But he was basically saying that a lot of rookies or players going to new teams that they have to learn a new schemin with this off season. It would be best to if you're looking at a tiebreaker and you're you're torn between two players, go with the guy that's a non rookie or not switching teams.
It's just a lot safer to do in this year's drafts for sure.
That was a fun interview. I can't wait for people to hear it on this weekend. I want to make sure that we say thank you to Owner's Box for sponsoring today's podcast. Don't forget that the new wave of fantasy sports is finally here with owner's box. Go to owners box dot com slash fantasy pros and sign up for their. Exclusive beta right now, each user who signs up will receive 100 ONA's bucks that can be used to enter contests risk free and will convert to cash when real money contests begin again.
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All right, then for Mike Tagliani and Ian Hartnett's. I'm Kyle Yates and we'll see you next time.
I just want you to watch Slide.