Happy Scribe

Tequila, tequila is my lady. I'm never going to see a man, he's got a husband's bulge. It was the pioneer days people had to make their own interrogation rooms. How hard is it to kill a bunch of nine year old? Pop Tarts, did you say Pop Tarts, Mollica, baby, today on them, on the rocks, we are talking about the cabin in the woods from 2011.


Welcome back to Film On the Rocks. We are starting off our October movie, Watching with the Cabin in the Woods in Brooklyn.


I'm joined by my good buddy, Nate. Nate, how are you doing, man? I'm doing good today. And we're also joined by a special guest, my good friend, Kara. Kara, welcome to the podcast.


Thank you for having me. So excited to talk about this movie. Thank you for coming on. I'm really excited to have you on to talk about the cabin in the woods. Is there anything that you like to sort of kind of plug or tell about yourself before we kind of get going?


Yeah, totally, says Nate said, where we go back to the college days, but fun fact about Nate, she went to college, so she went to the same colleges.


So this is like we're keeping a mini reunion. Yes.


OK. Sorry to interrupt. No, you're good.


One thing you may not know about Nate, he officiated weddings and he actually officiated my husband's wedding a few years ago also, which was so sweet.


And I'm going to embarrass him here for a minute.


He may not want to be friends with me after this, but during the ceremony, he he shed a couple tears while he was speaking. And it created this just wonderful, just like sweet moment that ended with everyone laughing, but also feeling very sentimental.


So it was perfect. And then there's there is footage of this.


So I'll have to send it to you so you can of it. So we're now building up a little embarrassing collage of photos of Nate from his Lizzie McGuire story tonight. This one is fantastic. I love it. Keep it coming. Even our guests get you, Nate.


Oh, I love it, though. That was a it was an awesome moment. So I'm just glad I could be a part of it.


Oh, well, thank you again, especially.


Well, thank you again for coming on to talk about the cabin in the woods. Like I said, we're talking about this movie from 2012. If you look on IMDB says that came out 2011. But when searching when it was released in the U.S., it came out officially April 13, 2012. So that's kind of confusing. And I my memory is also really weird. But when I actually saw this but so early 2011, 2012, Everyone to Trust this movie is directed by Drew Goddard.


And this was actually his directorial debut. This was his first movie to direct, which I got to say I really feel like he knocked it out of the park. Hmm. This movie was written by Joss Whedon and Drew Goddard. Joss Whedon. He wrote the Buffy the Vampire Slayer TV show, and he also wrote for The Avengers as well. And this is kind of interesting because that's actually how true Gotthard and Joss Whedon met Drew Goddard was hired on as a writer on Buffy the Vampire Slayer late into the game for that TV show.


But that's how they kind of met and they collaborated on a cabin in the woods together. Drew Goddard has also he also produced that Netflix show Daredevil, which was pretty good. I don't know if you're to watch that. He also produced the he also produced Cloverfield was it 10 Cloverfield Lane and that movie with Matt Damon, The Martian. So, dude. Oh, damn. OK, dude, pretty good. But this movie stars Kristen Colonie, Chris Hemsworth in a Hutchinson, Frank Kans.


Frank sorry, Jesse Williams, Richard Jenkins and Bradley Whitford. This movie had a budget of thirty million dollars. It made over fourteen point seven dollars million its opening weekend, and it grossed just under 70 million dollars worldwide. I feel like those are pretty good numbers for a movie like this, that that could barely catch a very broad, broad array of audiences because, you know, this is definitely a horror movie. But it's also very funny. It was also like, really clever.


Yeah. When was when was the first time people saw this movie? For the first time? This was this was my first time. I had never seen this movie before. I, I mean, as you all know, like I don't like horror movies, I don't like slashers. And that's what this kind of was and I don't know. So I just never really took the time. I'm surprised it hasn't been ruined for me. But yeah, this is my first time watching it for the podcast, and I actually enjoyed it.




Yeah. I'm totally surprised that nobody had read it for you. Yeah. Part of what makes it the movie that it is, I actually got to see it in theaters back in high school when it first came out. I think the funniest part is when we got into the theaters and there was the opening scene where they were, you know, kind of in that corporate setting. We thought we were in the wrong movie. And I thought that was kind of that was their intention, you know, going back and looking at it.


But like everybody just kind of looking around like this. I don't think this is the movie that we're supposed to be in right now because, I mean, it is kind of a prolonged scene. And I remember like, looking at the ticket, looking at the theater. No. And like, I think we're in the right one.


And then and then after, you know, like, I guess it's like what, like a five minute scene, you know, it finally pans over to them, like getting back to their cabin trip. It was like, oh, OK. I see. I see. This is just going to be way different than what it's advertised.


Um. Yeah, I wish I wish I saw this movie in theaters, I did see it in high school. I saw it when it first, like, hit Redbox back when. That's what a lot of people help people rent in movies. But, yeah, that was like the first time I saw it in my girlfriend, actually, when I saw it in theaters without me. And she she loved it. And she normally doesn't really care for horror movies at all, but she kind of went saw it and she was without spoiling anything.


She was just like, you need to see the cabin in the woods. This movie is amazing. And I think she actually went saw it a couple of times in theaters. And as soon as this was available for rental, I rented this a bunch in high school. I loved this movie.


It was so much fun to speculate and just kind of talk about how I mean, this movie sort of could explain almost every horror movie that's out there almost, right? Mm hmm. Yeah. Carrott You're the one who has seen it in theaters. Right. So when you saw the trailer, is this did they give any hint to like, I guess the this the background seems like the corporate know.


I'm trying to remember because I don't remember watching the trailer, but I remember being so shocked when I watched the movie itself.


I need to go back and look at the trailer. Also high school care. I didn't really pay much attention to the details of things.


So even though, like in the beginning, you know, something's different towards the end of the movie, once you see them like in the elevator and they actually kind of escape the cabin setting, I was still like, what the hell is this? And I didn't, you know, kind of like, think there. And I was like, yeah, I should pay more attention to these movies.


I think I think also another another thing is like high school, like that was the thing to do on a Friday night. So I'm pretty sure it was probably with a group of friends where we got dressed up and wanted to flirt with cowboys and didn't actually care like what we were watching. You just going, OK, probably.


Most likely. But I do I mean, I still remember, you know, most of the really like significant scenes. But I will say that going back and watching it over time is I've really developed a love for horror movies. I really learned to appreciate a little bit more. And that's still even then, it was a movie that always kind of stuck out to me is this is really different. And this is unlike anything else, you know, I had ever really seen in high school, in theaters and going and watching scary movies because I was the thing to do with your friends.


Mm hmm. Yeah. And I remember the something that did stick out from the trailer that was like a small hint was the the quick part of the eagle flying into the invisible dome that was in the trailer. And I remember because I had no idea what this movie's about, because I saw the trailers and I thought it was just another run of the mill slasher. Like, I didn't think there's anything special about this movie. So I think that's why I skipped out on it at first.


And, you know, my girlfriend was like, no, no, no, you need to see it. I remember she was like she talked about this all the time. I know she is that eagle in the trailer. I hate that it's in there because there's it ruins it even more like you see the going completely blind. But yeah, I mean, this it's very creative and it kind of like how I said I feel like it can in a way explain just about every horror movie that we've gotten.


And there's lots of I mean, I've watched interviews with Drew Goddard talk about his writing process on this and like where he was inspired from. He was obviously lots of inspiration from horror movies of the eighties. And this I mean, this has a very like Friday the 13th kind of feel at first. And I mean, like the cabin that they're staying in looks identical to the cabin from the evil dead. So, you know, lots of you know, like Sam Raimi and John Carpenter kind of vibes in this movie.


And it's just great. It works so well. I love it. Yeah. They really did tie in a lot of like, I guess the Western types of horror movies. They also tied in like the like the Japanese horror, um, I guess themes too specifically. I don't know. I mean, you guys probably noticed the little subplot in Japan where the little girls were. Yeah. Doing like a science or something against like this the spirit.


But I thought it was pretty cool because it was like the whole cliche, like the character, the little villain look like Sadako from the ring or Kayako from The Grudge. I looked up those names, but that style is kind of based on like Japanese folklore called Ura. I'm sorry if I botched the name of that, but it's where, like evil spirits are originated for people who were murdered or who committed suicide. And they aren't great at granted a peaceful afterlife and haunt people because of it.


So I thought that was cool that they kind of brought that into, because we also see, like, our own watching ones, like we saw King Kong and also kind of feel like it's because, you know, there's there's lots of, like, subtle commentary on the genre as a whole. And so, like, you know, the whole like Japan supply that you mentioned, it's kind of silly how like Jay. Or is undefeated, that's something that they said that Japan has never had a glitch, and it's I feel I just kind of talk about how Johore is something that has always scared Americans like something like I feel like there hasn't been a horror movie has come out that people have been like, oh, that isn't scary.


With the ring in the grudged. Those are two very iconic horror films that are a lot of people see as very scary. So I kind of love the little commentary on that. Yeah, I also love the little thing that they said that like that the Americans, us, we haven't had a glitch since the nineteen ninety eight. I kind of did. I only looked like what movies that came out in eight. I thought it might have been like a direct reference to a horror movie and I saw that the faculty.


Have either of you seen this movie, The Faculty with Elijah Wood. No. Oh it's great. So listeners previous episode go check out the faculty, but that that movie came out in nineteen ninety eight and it kind of that's what Kevin Williamson script and that kind of followed this like the tropes, you know, like the athlete scholar, the horror the fool has like those archetypes and but there are no fatalities in that movie, like nobody dies in the faculty.


So I feel like that might have been the little thing another time. I like we've had a glitch since 98 because that's like they're close call. Nobody died in that movie. So I just love the little all the nods to like horror throughout the decades. It was just great. I loved all the commentary and Bradley Whitford and Richard Jenkins, the two lab technician guys, they were whole. Larry is like, how come they haven't been paired in a movie before?


Like they were so great together, right?


Like they were my favorite characters, like hands down. I could I couldn't get over the romance thing.


I mean, that was just me.


And I was like, that just tells you, like I mean, there really are just so separated from, like, what's actually going on that they're so excited to just see this this Mahmad destroy these people.


Um, what you're saying here about if you find it hilarious that they you know, he was like rooting for the Murman, that is something that kind of really liked about this, is that, you know, the the lab technicians are kind of I feel like they're kind of playing two sort of roles, like they're kind of we're also like like the they're kind of like personifying like the audience as well, because, like, they're obviously watching the events of unfold.


But, you know, you can also very much say that they are like the filmmakers, the studios that kind of make these typical type of movies because of how much they're influencing everything. But, yeah, I mean, they were just so funny. I love the whole like them having this whole lottery pool of, you know, who which monster is going to be pulled. It was just great to see all of them.


And Jeffrey Jenkins, I'm sorry, Richard Jenkins going in like zombies to redneck zombie torture family, completely different species. It's scary.


And then did you guys like Pawsey and read the board of what they had, like the monster options? I haven't done that. Uh, there was one of them. It was like giant molesting three or something. And then one of them was just Kevin. Oh, so the have you ever seen the Evil Dead.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the most injuries from that, which is what this cabin looks like. Yeah. There's a famous tree rape scene in that movie, but yeah that's what that is referring to. So again, lots of nods to some of the predecessors that they got inspiration from. OK, go back to those two lab technicians. I kind of thought it was funny how they kind of captured, like, the monotony in the workplace, you know what I mean?


Because, like, you could do pretty interesting work. Right. And but at the same time, like, you bump into your coworkers in the break room or something and you're just like, so. Wednesday, you know, they're just talking about they're just talking about random shit and but nobody really cares about and but at the same time, it's just like, let's go back to work and accept our work is, you know, terrible when we're torturing people for the to create some some ancient gods that we give no background to, you know.


Yeah, that is kind of funny. Yeah. Yeah.


It's such a idea. Like the dislike being desensitized when you're in a corporate setting to like the actual work and impact that you have. It's like, oh, I'm just another cog in the machine. But I think that that one moment where like you see, I don't even know if the guys do they even have names.


The guy that picked up on that one, I was like Hadlee, which is, you know, just change one letter and Bradley, but it's Hadlee.


And I can't remember Jenkinson or Jenkins' names, but yeah, yeah, they do have names.


I just forget, OK, I think it was, I think it was Hadwin like once one of them had died, like he just kind of like took that moment and felt really sentimental and really like upset and then like at that one moment he like flipped the switch, people walked in and I was like took you take you lady.




Oh yeah. Yeah. So it was good to see that.


Yeah. Even though he was like the leader of this whole like, you know, he's his leadership of this terrible corporation. I mean, he still has a heart. And so it's kind of interesting to see that.


Yeah, it is kind of you know, you're seeing this whole like I don't know if it's like a morality thing or like, you know, they just consciously feel bad about it. But, you know, at the same time, you kind of see them justify by going with enforcement anything they made their own free will, like, you know, the whole Mortdecai scene, like the guys telling you you will die, but they choose to ignore him.


And so, like, I feel like that's kind of them justifying for them to feel less bad about it, too, besides how this fits into the whole ritual as well, right? Yeah.


I mean, I guess at the back of their head, they're like, well, we're doing this for humanity. Yeah, nobody realizes that.


Mm hmm. So I saw that. So I went on to Ron Tomato's because I was kind of curious on what sort of score this has. So the critics have this at a on the Ron Tomato's meter. Critics have this at a 92 percent, but the audience score is slightly lower, 74 percent. Uh, I feel like I feel like I believe more critics on this. I feel like this would be like low 90s to me at least. I don't know where you guys want to have this.


I think that score kind of comes in like a lower audience score because maybe we didn't capture we didn't catch all the things that I guess like savvy movie critics would catch. Because, I mean, I'm I'm not a horror person. I'm sure there are a lot of horror references that I didn't catch throughout the movie so I could see that being like in there were a lot of instances where I did stop and think, like, I wonder where that's from.


I wonder where that's from. So that did kind of pull me out of the movie, I guess. But I guess if you're like YouTube and you guys know, you know, all these crazy horror stories and all these cool movies and stuff, that got a lot of things, that was a lot more fun for you. But personally, I did really enjoy the movie. I would also I put it in the high 80s, OK, so like so neat.


Like as a person who normally doesn't watch horror movies, he said it was still like really entertaining and fun, though. It was that kind of like from more of like just like what did you find it scary or is it kind of just more like this is there's hilarious or just entertaining. I'm kind of curious what like the non horror fan thinks of this movie? Uh, no, I didn't think it was scary at all. OK, so let me just clarify that.


And actually, it can kind of back this up. So I don't I just don't like Slasher's. Right. The only movies that really scare me are the ones that are just a little bit too real. And one movie that was just too real that I actually saw with Kara and her husband was, you know, what was it called her? Ed Ed Atari do that movie fucked me up because it was just it was just too real. That's I haven't watched a horror movie since that movie whenever that came out in theaters.


But this one, it just wasn't scary. Those those types of things just don't scare me. Right. But I did enjoy it just because it was like very original. It's like it was like nothing I'd ever seen before. I didn't know it was a comedy. Yeah. So I was kind of really thrown through a loop. And like Carrie was talking about being confused at the beginning. I was like, what the fuck is happening? And I did.


I like paused my movie. And I went back and I recollect it and it brought me back to the same movie. I'm like, OK, so I guess this is the same thing. Maybe maybe they like, made an error streaming service. But as I kept watching, I was like, oh, OK, this is funny. Like, this is fun. I'm enjoying this bit that I mean, that's that was kind of my impression. Nothing scary.


I would watch it again, actually. Yeah. But I want to know how how camera ranks this movie. Where's your what's your rating at. Yeah, I would, I would agree with the critics.


I mean I would definitely rank it up there in the ninety percent I am a sucker for. A horror movie that just doesn't take it so seriously, so I love, like over the top Slasher's or like when you can laugh when somebody is being killed because of how ridiculous it is.


And I think I know that sounds really morbid, but maybe it's just because it adds a little bit of comic relief to how surreal and ridiculous some of these horror movies can be. But I think that it does such a good job of doing that while also making references to some other horror movies that are like that, like, you know, I love the Evil Dead. And I think it does such a good job of being like, oh, yeah, we're going to put them in this situation just like this.


And we're also going to add this weird almost Hunger Games or black mirror element to it and to make you feel like, you know a little bit more. And sometimes that can also be really engaging for the audience. It's like I know more than the main character. So this seems really cool, too. Like I kind of have like this in on it and it can get people to be more interested in the story and what's actually happening. And so I thought that they did a really good job of doing that.


And like you said, there are just so many Easter eggs. So it's so fun throughout the way. And like each time you watch it, you can find something new that you didn't notice before.


And that happens to be every time I watch this, especially when they go down to the cellar, I'm always like, oh, that's a little trinket for so-and-so or whatever isn't. It's always a lot of fun. That would be a fun game to play because I think I read that they made they actually did make 60 trinkets for 60 different monsters. And that would be fun to just kind of like try to match them up because it was cool when we saw, like, the dude with like the circular saw in his head.


And he was holding that little thing that Chris Hemsworth Thor was holding. Yeah.


And he almost opened it. And it's like, how different would this movie have been if that were right? Yes. He had the conch for the for the mermaid right before that, too. Later we see Bradley. You hit the college in his hand.


Man, this is great love.


Yes, actually. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.


And it kind of seems like I kind of I guess the only thing I'm sad about is like I feel like there were so many good monsters that could have been in the storyline, but they were like these damn zombies again. Like, they're just not they're not as cool as all the others.


And it's like, I'm glad that we at least got to see later on the capability of some of these creatures, monsters and one other interesting little Easter egg about like that, that scene where they kind of pan out with all the, like, glass, you know, elevators with all the different monsters.


They a few of them are actually monsters from the game left for dead, too. So if you look closely, did you see do you know that? Have you seen that like there's like a Blumer and there's like a witch? I think they had a couple of others, like one of the spiders. But it's just want to get one of those things out. It's like if you pay really close attention and you like, pause it and kind of look, you can see what I thought was just so interesting.


They like included that little Easter egg in there. So many details went into this.


And even this is a less cooler trivia fact. But the that scene that you're talking about, like with the the cubes, they actually, like, came up with this computer algorithm to where because we see them, like shifting and moving to where this computer algorithm did it to where it all made sense, like in a real reality. So like it wasn't just randomly putting stuff. It made sense to like with how much space actually took up and stuff shifting around, which they probably didn't need to go into that much detail.


But they did. So, I mean, kudos to them. And there I really appreciate all of the practical effects in this movie. Like all the practical I mean, there are some CGI monsters, like the Big Snake, like that's a CGI monster.


But a lot of a lot of practicality in the design for the monsters in this. And I remember seeing that it was just a huge task for the costume designers because they had to make is like an army's worth the amount of costumes for this movie. So, yeah, it was I just love kind of seeing all those details and stuff. It was it was just really fun. But I, I agree that there I guess that was a question I had.


What kind of creatures did you wish did get activated that we saw? I personally love like the wolf man. I don't know why. I've always I've always just like that classic monster. I kind of wish we got some of that. But the big giant bat thing was pretty terrifying. I kind of would have liked to see that. But were there other monsters you all saw? Oh, I kind of wish we got that instead. Yeah.


I mean, I think Nate had already mentioned the guy with the saw. What does that call like in his head? I think that guy was really interesting. Yeah.


Because he was just so like quiet and I was like, well what would he be like, you know, as a monster? Like how would he kill? And like what would what would pouty sneak up on people? I don't know. I think he had the interest.


He didn't seem like a Jason, I guess, type. Right. Just kind of I guess not.


He kind of just like O.J. He kind of looks like Hellraiser a little bit to me. Just just say about pinheads for the sors through his head. I haven't seen that movie. I just I just recognize the posters. So I don't know what what hell raiser did. But besides raise hell I guess.


But yeah, I have a sucker also for like, like paranormal movies. So I would have liked to have seen. With that that ghost, I don't really even know what reference that would be to what other movie, but I think that was really interesting. Are you talking about the one that, like, slapped the elevator when they're when they're sitting in it and, like, got up in the face? It was like it was like banging up against the glass when they were excited.


Yeah, that one. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a little floating head.


I want to see that one too, because that one was it was spooky. That was like the like the only like everything was scary. This one was just like spooky like kind of see what that did. And I also feel like we don't see maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like when I watch most like ghost movies or paranormal movies, I feel like you don't get that many fatalities in those. So be kind of curious to see like that one gets that one.


It was chosen by Bradley Whitford and Richard Jenkins.


Shit like that. No idea.


I personally, I just kind of wanted to see, like, the ridiculous ones, like I was talking about, like the tree. Kevin there was also it was like a big cat. It was just a big cat.


But I've been putting this to see, like, what it would have done. You know, the unicorn was an odd one as well, that, yeah, it was like, what's a unicorn doing out here? And then it just straight up and. The guy was like, whoa, OK, it's so bizarre.


And just to go back to the moment and one more time, please. How how would I guess this is my question is like, if the merman had been chosen, how would they get him, like, into the cabin? How would he attack? Because he's not they're not near water, are they really? I mean, there's that lake. So would that be kind of the moment in which or that little pond, would that be the moment in which he would attack?


Also, he didn't look very terrifying. He just kind of blubbered his way through.


So I would be wondering, like, how actually like agile would he be at being able to kill people, especially outside of water?


See, I think see, you're thinking like a movie audience. We're like you're like smart enough to avoid it. But I think the kind of place into this that they would have had, like, these weird pheromones or whatever, that dumb them down and be like, hey, when you go skinny dipping like midnight. And so they just go do that. And so, like, they're stuck in the light. They're always being forced to go back to the water.


And that would have been cool to see the downstairs or whatever the lab influence that more. So, yeah, that would have. But yeah, I think you're right. That's kind of like how stupid sometimes these plots are in these movies that they're kind of poking fun at the like. How would that even work. But the lab finds a way. Yeah, that's a good point.


And they said that they were just like, oh yeah, watch us work. We can make it happen. And then they're just like their Fairmont's to make like Chris Hemsworth character, like, even more dumb. Yeah, no, I think we should split up. I think we should have the other guys come out.


Really. Yeah. OK, ok, sure.


And they all listen to those. But I was so disappointed in how the Murman looked though. I was really like hoping for it looks like a couple feet.


You know, he really is a tad Bulik and what Karen was saying, just like blubbering up to the guy and he just like slapped his mouth on his face and just started eating them. Like, what the actual fuck. I just love it's oh man. How are you got to be kidding me.


And I was like a Jabba the Hutt like in man.


Yes. That's what he looked like. Oh, that's so great. You briefly just mentioned Chris Hemsworth kind of being like this dumb guy. However, in this movie, I remember when I watch this, that was something that one of my friends was like, that's Thor. I feel safe in this movie. Like I wanted to be with him the whole time.


He when he actually made this movie, he he made this movie before he did Thor, actually. But Thor came out before the cabin in the woods, so people knew him from Thor. And I think that kind of helped that. MGM was the production company they like went bankrupt. So this movie was delayed. Its release was delayed for two years. That's why Thor beat it. But yeah, that was something that always I stuck out telling me my friends like I feel safe with him.


Let's just stick with Thor. You'll be OK and say, oh, yeah.


Did you guys notice did you guys notice that he was kind of going in and out of an accent? Yes. Yes. He was struggling here with his his Australian accent was bleeding a lot.


And it's like he starts off Australian and then like two seasons later, he's straight up American and then he just kind of flip flopped throughout the movie. I was like, this guy. Just forget where was our continuity guy?


It's like especially with the lake scene where they all go swimming and he's like, oh, that's my girlfriend in the water or whatever that.


Yeah. Oh, that was great. Speaking of that lake scene, here's a fun, quick fun fact. So, you know, the Mardie like the fool in this whole thing, the weed smoking guy. So smoking guy with a friend.


I'm good. I'm good with word. So he is he was the only person that didn't get in the water. Right. And. It turns out it's because he was more ripped than both of our two hunks in that movie and that they didn't want right there, like he looked like he had washboard abs and we couldn't show it because none of the other guys had as good abs as him.


He was like, way more cut. So we're just going to put it right. Exactly right. Yeah, that's fantastic, because it is because he's wearing a long sleeve shirt walking to walking on the pier. Well, he has a towel over him. It's like you called Buddy. Like, what's going on?


Mm hmm. Oh, man, that's a good point.


Well, so before we get into the main event with the drinking rules, I want to quickly thank today's sponsors. Supporting support is a super awesome accountability service and they help you meet your goals. The way support works is that you get partnered up with accountability, buddy, and you'll come up with a nice personalized plan to help you meet your goals. You chitchat with them through their free apps, kind of texting each other. It's super awesome and it's really great.


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I feel like there was a lot of people that needed some accountability. I'm going I want to ask you, Nate, first, who you thought needed accountability. I think we just needed a little bit of accountability from the lab technicians. Obviously, you know, we're dealing with the end of the world. Marty needs to die, make sure he dies.


You know, Kara. Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to second that also. But the accountability, knowing that they were trying to trick the gods and what was her name? Dana. Pretending that she's a virgin. She's like she's the best we got. Will fit her into this category. Right. I think I think they need more accountability into actually following the rules with their rituals. Yes. You know, not tricking the gods there. That's a good point.


You know, you can't get a cave in. Happened on time, man. I mean, you got to stay on top of all this. How how are they surprised about the cave in? They needed to stay on top of all this, but so be sure to head to get supported dotcom. Or you could download the free app today and tell them that Filemon or Sentir and you could start your two week free trial today. All right, so, gentlemen, we're officially getting into the drinking rules, mate, would you like to start us off with your drinking water rules?


OK, so I think there's actually there's a lot of opportunity for drinking rules for this movie. This is definitely a beer movie. You kind of want to sip slow. But every time we check in with the like the lab technicians, the surveillance people, that that whole subplot take a drink, you know, maybe drink, maybe like a stronger drink. Right. OK, a longer gulp. If you're not really paying attention to the movie, you just kind of there for the ride.


You just kind of looking for, like an audible cue to drink every time you hear estab sound. All right. That's a good one. Go ahead and take a drink. Yeah. Or if you just don't like to see these, if you're like me, you don't like to see these slasher movies and kind of just want to look away when it starts to get gory. You can still be involved in this game. Right. Just listen for those stabs and then have a finish.


You drink raw. So every time we hear mention or see the Murman, finish your drink. That's a good one. I love that. The Murman clause. Love it. That's a carrot. What do you get for drinking rules? Oh, man.


Well, you know, my favorite in first was the Merman. So actually that was going to be my last drink any time a moment was mentioned.


So I'm glad we're on the same page with that one. I also have drink every time Marty makes a stoner reference, for example, and he's like, I'm swimming in a bloom of reefer or a thing, you know, like like to join, you know, take a drink every time they mention the word puppeteer. Oh, that's a good one. And any time they mention the word glitch and then also any time they go back to the action, drawing a blank on what they're the lab people in the the lab technicians, every time that they they have kind of like a oh shit moment.


And they would say shit because they do that quite a few times.


So basically with carers rules, you're just not going to remember what movie you were watching. I was going to pass out.


You got to remember, like five words like shit puppeteer glitch. And then any time you see a joint, take a drink and bourbon. Yeah.


And a all those rules. So not too many overlaps with me, actually. So I had every time Marty point out, like, the oddities or like makes like a smart suggestion, like, you know, him being like I'm drawing a line the fuck and saying, don't read the Latin. Like he's like, you know, you hear that voice read a lot and he's like, what the fuck was that like when he's like noticing all these things?


But he's the only one noticing it. Take a drink every time the lab technicians, like, influenced the group in some way. Take a drink. There's I think like a big scene with this was the whole curtain and sex scene. You know, they're turning up the temperature, releasing the pheromones, changing the lighting, like just setting the mood for everything. There's also that point where Dana was holding a knife and they zapped the hand. Also, she drops it.


So every time you see the lab influencing the group in some way, take a drink. They also say, like upstairs and downstairs, a bunch in movie movies, I said drink every time they say upstairs or downstairs. And my last drinking rule, and this is kind of a dangerous moment, but it's during kind of like the climax of this movie drink every time you hear the elevators, ding.


That's it. Yeah.


And don't drink for every death in this movie because I think there's over 100 kills. And it's movies like Don't don't do that. I don't I don't want people to die of alcohol poisoning, but at least you want to blackout.


So to the to the point of the number of kills in the movie, I think they're so on screen. We see off screen there are definitely over 100 kills. Right. But on screen we see specifically 69 kills. Oh, so I think that yeah, I think that was like a I mean, just like a sex joke on the on the part of the writers. Do you think that was in there? Oh, absolutely. They're like they're like sixty seven.


I got, I got to get the 69 umpired got I don't know just have a unicorn stab someone.


OK, just do that. That's fucking true. These are some good rules man. I really opened the I mean those are just like fun play along ones, right. Yeah. I was doing this last night and I was doing the Marty rule every time. He was like pointing something out of it. This is great. This is so much fun. They're just consistent. They really are. Um, did so do y'all want to kind of talk about some of our favorite scenes from this movie?


Yes. All right. So let's get into the meat of this. I just want to say I really enjoy the opening credits where they're kind of showing all of these images of, like, human ritual sacrifices. It was kind of a clear and obvious foreshadowing moment. But the first time you see this here, kind of just like this is dark. What are they showing us this? Mm hmm. That is not something I call it. I think I was just very confused by the beginning of this movie.


So nothing I was not making I was not drawing connections at all. Yeah.


And how many did you or did you notice that the very first time breker when you had watched it, or did you did you catch onto that later after watching that a couple of times?


Oh, no. It took me a couple of times. Like this is one of those movies where it's kind of Shutter Island you pick up on all of you pick up what actually is going on. The second watch is one of the movies that when you watch it, it's actually more fun because now you get it. That's a different movie. So I just want to talk about like a quick just side line. This isn't like any prominent scene in the movie.


This is just a quote. Somebody said, please, where I don't ever remember who says it, but I think it was Dana the Virgin in the movie Virgin, quote unquote. She says Jules is premed when they're like referencing her, helping someone do something. So I just think that's so fucking funny, because when you're premed, you literally do not get any sort of like medical practice right in your degree like it is. You're taking botany classes, you're taking geology classes, chemistry, all this random shit that would lead people to believe that.


I mean, you could be a medical professional coming out of undergrad. Right. And it's funny because I think that pretty med students definitely play on that. Whenever people ask them questions like I'm premed, like, I think I would know the answer to that question. I could help be internal bleeding.


Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's so true because I, I'd split my head open before and I don't even know I was I was with some just some random people and one of the people's friends was like, I'm premed. I can help you. You need to pause.


You need a poor God, not alcohol. But what's the other one, hydrogen peroxide on the cup. And I was like, I'm fucking premed. Don't touch my fucking head. You know damn well we didn't learn anything about that. And I just thought that was like super. It's super obnoxious. Yeah, it'll do something like that. And it's it's funny because I thought that because that always I kind of stuck out to me because I always thought we've gotten more of her being like kind of like that, that stereotype you just described, like more than talking about how she's premed or whatever.


But I think it was definitely kind of like falling into the I like you know, she's trying to play that this dumb blonde. But then, like you hear, she's premed, which, you know, most people think, oh, there's people, like, really smart. Why she acting like this kind of like archetype character, then, you know, it kind of throws you off. But, yeah, that that little moment is also really funny, too, because it's such Dana putting her foot in her mouth because she's trying to flirt with Holden and she ends up saying, go see Jules.


He just goes, OK, OK.


It just felt like such a real interaction between two people that like like, oh, you know, you're kind of flirting, but we don't know how.


And that's one of those moments where you're like taking a shower later and you're just like, fuck, I should have said it this way. Oh, one. A good comeback, you know, I was premed that made a difference. Oh, my God. The I guess is why we're on this. That was the part leading up to this. The whole two way mirror scene was one of my favorite parts of the movie, because besides the whole like Mordecai thing, which I guess I assume we will circle back to at some point, but the two way mirror scene was one of the first creepy things of the movie that, like, really just it was unsettling and it really made you feel like, what the fuck is this cabin for?


You know, especially with that weird ass painting. Yeah. Yeah. Buckners Yeah. I did not like that. That was creepy. I don't know. I thought it was funny at the end where because like the whole reason they're at this cabin is because Chris Hemsworth is like, yeah, it's my cousin's cabin, blah blah blah. And at the end Dana's like, you know, I don't even think Chris Hemsworth even has a cousin. I don't remember their names.


I'm just going to go I'm going to call them four or whatever characters I recognize. Kurt that's a good old Kurt.


Yeah. I also think it was kind of funny going back to mentioning how he became that stereotype of, like, the dumb as a rock jock guy. And they were like they were like, you know, he doesn't normally act like this. He's a sociology major. I that yeah.


That fun, that fun stereotype that, you know, like sociology majors are very thoughtful about, you know, like humanity and all of that. And he just kind of like became and that's when they started to notice how different he was acting as well.


Yeah. And it's such a contrast to, like, the very opening of the movie where he's recommending different textbooks to Dana saying like, oh, no, this professor doesn't like this. He'll cover and lecture. Actually, you know, he does like this. He'll cover any lecture. You don't need to read it. Read this one. So that way you seem insightful. And it was the writing for this was really good because you get invested because you like these characters, like they're not shallow.


I don't think they are like anything that these were like shallow characters. And like we see that they have some depth to them through like good writing and like the jokes that they do, like this movie is really funny, written well. And you care about these. It's much different from like one of the many Friday the 13th sequel movies where it's very just kind of shallow characters and like you're waiting on them to just get killed off, you know.


Um, so, yeah, I really liked all that. Yeah, I did. I definitely did find myself caring about these people as a dad, which they died really quick and like really gruesome. And then I was like, oh, that's kind of uncalled for. That fucking bear trap that they're using to pull people's spines out like, oh, oh my God, that was a lot for me in particular. So I'm not going to lie.


I kind of loved the Mr. Buckner character, like the zombie character with the bear trap that you're just describing because he was terrifying. Like I honestly, I probably could have I probably have one a little bit more of him just because I want to be scared a little bit more in this. But, yeah, he was he was really terrifying.


Sorry to just jump in here again. Can we just talk about, like, the elephant in the room in terms of with the sacrifices they needed, a an athlete, a whore, a fool, a virgin and a scholar. Right. And that's what we had in our cast. Did we need that around the world? Because I'm really wondering about that room of nine year old girls in Japan. Like Zuccarini, the book is Go. Are they all of those things?


What school is this? You know, what kind of nine year olds are we dealing with? That's a great point. I wonder if the because we don't see that. We don't see a teacher in the room. So I wonder if the teacher was one of those archetypes that got killed off early on. So they said nobody died. Oh, OK. Well, shit, I don't know. That's a good point. Or maybe they just needed it for different regions, like each region was needed, like a specific type of sacrifice.


Yeah, yeah.


This is all are all the rituals the same or the you know, maybe they have to fit a different need each time or something. Interesting, I don't know, but also I don't I can't I can't stop thinking about the fact that if data wasn't a real virgin, how do they think they are going to trick these old gods?


Well, they said she didn't need to die, right? So I guess it didn't really matter. They wouldn't have tasted her blood and been langoulant she's actually got a pretty high body count. So, yeah, I guess that's true.


I guess that's true. And then also, of course, was with Marty. It's cool. It's interesting. They call it the fall, but like he was actually the most like, quote unquote, Wolke of them all. Like he was like, yeah. And I kind of wonder if that I mean, he's obviously like he kind of threw everything off. And so it's kind of like that, like it's almost like they had a corporate poopsie and they were like, oh, shit.


Like, you know, our him like wrong. And like we can't even use our, you know, pheromones or whatever on him because whatever he's smoking is like power and all of it.


And so always the weed solves all he's like way too much of what we need.


Therefore we can't actually get him to fit into like this exact stereotype because he's just too aware of that.


And it's also kind of foreshadowed at the beginning of the scene where they introduce Marty is great because, you know, he's coming in soaking that huge bong. You know, he's like blasting music. And he was like, Marty, what the fuck are you doing? We try and get pulled over. And he does that whole thing about the man or the police fear the guy that smokes the bong in the car because they know that he will trick them with his ancient wisdom.


And that's like something he uses throughout the movie, his his wisdom to to point out like the weird holes in this puppeteer plot. But, yeah, he is hilarious in this movie and the whole bong travel mug thing.


It's such an iconic look. That's a cool toy lately. That's like the toy from this movie. I love it. So I think Breker really wants to to jump back to this one point because you keep bringing up Mordecai. And how is the harbinger? Is that what that word is? Yes, the harbinger. OK, is this is that the movie, the fact that you want to share real quick? No, I don't have a movie fact for this.


Do you have one? Oh. Oh yeah. Well, I feel cool now for those of you who do not know because I was like, what the fuck is a harbinger. A harbinger is a person or thing that announces or signals the approach of another. So the warning in the movie and they keep calling him the harbinger because I thought that was his name. And then they kept saying, Mordecai and I got confused. But a good Google search helped me out.


But anyways, I thought it was cool how they kind of paralleled where they not even parallel. I think the harbinger just served as the harbinger for both the kids and for the lab technicians, because with the kids, he's telling them, like, you going to be on this point, you're going to get fucked up. Right. And then with the lab technician technicians, when he's calling them and they have that whole scene where he's like, am I on speakerphone?


Which is he's warning them, right. He's warning them that the food like, do not underestimate him. He's smaller, smarter than he seems. And they kind of write him off because the whole time they're just like laughing at him over speaker phone. And I don't know, I just thought that was kind of cool how he served two roles in this movie, not just for the kids, but for also the lab technician it's becoming. This is.


Yeah, because Martys ultimately the one who kind of like fucked things up, which led to our moral dilemma than anybody. Did you guys feel like there was some sort of moral dilemma at the end where Marty Marty had to choose his fate? Both fates resulted in death, but ultimately it was just like it was kind of like the trolley problem. Like if you pull the lever, you can kill one person or you can kill four people going off the track.


I feel like it's one so good.


None of you had, as I say, except in this case, it's like kill one person or the entire the entire time. Exactly. It's like you can die for the world or you can die with the world. It's your choice.


And yeah. And I think I think there is a good foreshadow about him talking about how much he hates humanity and like our society, like when they're on the um. I guess it's like when they're in the van and he's talking about it, it's kind of like, OK, well, you already know that he hates people.


So, you know, when that moral dilemma is presented, he's just like he's like the worst person.


Yeah, he's the worst president. Yeah. Be making that decision.


You're like, well, shit. Now it's up to Dana at this point. Mm hmm. And she failed. She got eaten by a wolf almost. Yeah. I do love the boldness of Drew Goddard to decide that they don't save the world, that they just let it crumble or whatever. I kind of like that. It sucks. I mean, we'll get to it when we talk about sequel talks, but it kind of just like closes the door on this whole thing.


This was like, no, this was a fun story. We're putting this aside. Humanity sucks. I kind of like that. It reminded me of that movie with all those celebrities where the world is ending. You guys remember, this is the end. This is this. Yes. Yeah. Actually, right at the end. Of that movie. Yes, I don't know why, but it just hit something and I bawled.


Oh is that was it is that was it when they're rocketing through the deck of the giant monster. Is that OK?


Wait, is that the one I haven't seen this movie. So that was very weird.


OK, let me make sure I'm thinking of the same one.


There's Demon Dicks.


It's the one with James Franco and Seth Rogen. Oh, shit.


No. OK, I'm thinking there's just one with I think it's Keira Knightley and Steve Carell. Yes. It's like partners for like The End of the World or something like that that I haven't seen it either.


But yeah, I know we talk about not the movie. I was referencing it. This one is just we can do an episode on it, but basically it's just like a complete dark comedy like this one.


Yeah, I know. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. I did not cry at the end of that one was like a pretty good movie there in heaven with the like the Backstreet Boys or something at the end.


Yes. Yes. I was like I'm pretty sure at the end they like God sends a beam down to save them and it chops off the deck of a giant demon monster. So that is not it is not the same. Yeah, no, I'm sorry I ruined that for you. But you're also you know, if you like this one. You like that one. Oh well, uh, carrot what. Well I don't know. I don't know.


I don't know if I've let you have the floor yet. What seeds did you like from this movie.


Oh, man. I mean, of course, I think the one thing like when I watched the very first time in theaters, I mean, the the glass box scene is the one thing that I remember the most that always stuck with me. I think that scene and then I also really enjoy that moment when they're in the basement and they're all playing with the different trinkets, because to me, that's like the ultimate, like suspect. It's like, OK, which one is going to be triggered first?


And it's totally cool. Did you know that I was going to trigger something? Well, yeah, I mean, they kind of they were kind of all playing with different things and then like they had already kind of they were placing their bets, you know, before that. So I was kind of making that connection that, OK, so these are going to lead to some kind of outcome. And so it was just kind of funny to watch them all like, you know, what's an angel is putting on but put on the necklace.


And then there was like the little twisty trinket that I'm just going to keep calling it. Chris Hemsworth is playing with that. And it was so interesting when Dana just started like reading, she just started reading like the I guess it was like a journal or like something like a letter. And I was like, OK, so this is where we're going to go. And it was so it was just like a split second from like it could have changed so quickly.


And I thought that was interesting that, like, their storyline could have just been like a split second later, someone could have done one thing and that would have triggered just a whole nother movie. So that that was really clever and fun.


And in the music is getting like really suspenseful at this point because because like the first time I watched this, I was not really I wasn't connecting any dots. Like, I didn't get that. I was able to connect the whole, like, pool to this until afterwards, like when they announce who like the monster was. And I was like, I don't know why, but I know I should be on edge right now and I don't know why.


But, yeah, they did a real good job with that. That's a really good scene. I do have a question for you. So the first time you saw this when crimps when Chris Hemsworth. I'm going to do it too, when Chris Hemsworth is about to make the jump over, like the crevice or whatever. Did you think he was going to make it first?


No, no, no.


I did forget about the wall, but it gets me every time, the whole time because I was like, where where's the fucking ramp? Where physics is going to has to come into play. It's going to pull me right down. I thought he was just going to fall off the edge and that was going to be it. But him like, oh, my gosh, Evel Knievel wings through the sky and like it. Even the scene itself was a little ridiculous.


And he just looks so heroic. Right. And then he just said, yes, my husband and I actually watched watched it this time together.


And like he thought that scene was so fucking funny that he had to, like, pause the movie so that he could get his, like, 30 seconds of laughing out because he thought it was just so ridiculous.


Because you do forget about the dome. Like I always forget about it. It's like, oh, doing like I the first I saw, I thought he was going to clear it. I was like, oh, they're actually going to go this way. Nope, that's hilarious. My girlfriend, who was not like super into the movie, even she was just dying laughing at that scene because it was so fucking ridiculous. And like you think, I don't like horror movies.


She's like even worse with that. So was it. It's hilarious. Is it unintentional comedy? Like, was that supposed to be funny? I can't tell if that was like a joke on purpose or not, but it's still it's still good.


It's got to be right. I mean, because it's so like the timing, the comical timing is just so good. I mean, it's just like, OK, we know what's coming and like they don't know. And it's just going to be like tragic but funny at the same time. And then the way because also the way that he he falls, doesn't he just keep like hitting the sack goes down the whole time point.


Yeah. Oh it was so demoralizing to go there just like he is our last hope.


And I kind of want to mention the scene where, uh, Richard Jenkins character, the lab technician, he is scrambling to to detonate the cave in collapse. And because, like, this was like really, again, this was like really suspenseful as well. Like the music's picking up. You're like they're like racing against each other. But the first time you watch this, like you don't know who the roof or you're kind of like, oh, God, like the van.


It needs to get out of the tunnel before they collapse it. But you're also, like, going this again, like if you kind of root for the side of, you know, they should be sacrificed to save humanity. So, like, now you're rooting for the lab technician to run down there and do it. I just love it. It was so good.


Yeah, that's such a good point, because it's like it could really be split at that point. I mean, there's there's all such likable characters, it makes it hard to like, well, you know, and there's no no win win situation. And I just feel like I was at some point, I was like, well, we know that they're going to die. And that's the goal.


So, like, I want to root for the success at the lab technicians just because they're, you know, like we like them, they're entertaining and like we kind of care about the outcome. Yeah, definitely. You know, who are you rooting for?


I have a feeling is that my sister was unleashed back her to get summoned.


Yeah, I, I mean, I was obvious I was rooting for the kids and I mean, up until the end, I really did think, oh, my dog is Tip-Top and everywhere. She said up until the end I thought they were straight up line like when Sigourney Weaver came out and was talking to him, giving her like little is. Speech, I was like, no, I still don't fucking believe it, like, she looks like a villain, she doesn't seem like she's legit.


So I was still I was rooting for the kids to the end because I really didn't think that the world was going to end. And then it did. So I was like, OK, well, I made the wrong decision. So I think society would have crumbled under under my my poor choices. Any other scenes before moving on to message? No, I don't think so already. So let's kind of move on to the message of this movie.


Were there any sort of lessons or themes or like messages from this movie that you're kind of able to pick apart now, kind of just let the floor is open and maybe I'm thinking, you know, a little bit, maybe this is part of me just kind of projecting kind of what's going on now and just talking about humanity and how much like at what cost do we actually value and preserve our sense of safety, I guess. And so I think it's like almost like a metaphor for this structure.


You know, the structures that we built in our government is these corporations that we have in place to kind of preserve humanity, safety. And it kind of shows you how flawed it is and how fragile it is that there could be one small, you know, quote unquote, Wolke person that can realize that, you know, something's not right here. So, you know, and Marty, as the people that are starting to question the system. Right.


And it's kind of almost like a you know, like one thing can create a ripple effect and then it can you just kind of mess up everything that, you know, has been built to try to maintain the systems that we've always had in place. And it's kind of like, you know, at what cost. Right. So we have to sacrifice people. We have to sacrifice groups of people to be able to all maintain what we have and dignity and be more metaphorical.


If you want to talk about these old gods, is like this history that we buried underground, then, you know, we've got all of these rituals and things to try to keep all of that, you know, preserved the way it is because we don't want those old gods to come back. You know, we don't have the history to come back. So and yeah, maybe that's just me projecting with everything. But, yeah, I don't know.


As a cynic and somebody who also resonates with Marty on that, I'm like, yeah, fuck humanity people.


I think I'm just like, yeah, I was like in the world.


So, you know, I actually really, really like that interpretation a lot. Yeah. The whole corporate setting was something that kind of went over my head a little bit just because I work in the lab. So it's kind of like, oh, because working in a lab is like so weird like this. It's just so different from like other like office settings or workplace settings. But yeah, no, I definitely can now see that that was really I really like that kind of takeaway that you got from it.


That really was like a nice I mean it was kind of like a modern day commentary as well. So I particularly appreciated that. I thought that was great. My message was not as deep, but I think it was I'm just like the service level message was really just can't take everything from your own point of view. You kind of have to consider other people's stance on things, their own perspective that you have to take into account and then kind of make it to make a decision from there, like in separating yourself from the situation, because, I mean, in the beginning we were rooting for the kids because we thought, like, they were just going to be brutally murdered.


But then once we got to know the lab technicians and we know that they do have their own motivations, where it's like this is for the greater good of society, like we're protecting the world and we're humanity's last chance because every other nation failed. Then you start rooting for them a little bit. Right. And I mean, at the end, I was just like, you know what? Like, Marty does have to die and like, you just don't know which way he's supposed to go.


And it really does kind of put you in a predicament, but it really does take getting all those perspectives together to kind of make that that big decision like that. Yeah. And that's a there's something I like about this movie because, I mean, I don't know about you, too, but I love movies that are ambiguous, like have an ambiguous ending where you kind of debate it kind of like, you know, inception in this one. It's not an ambiguous ending, but it's a you know what?


It's kind of like a choose your own adventure. Like what would you have done in that situation? And that's something that like and it's I feel like something that we've been able to kind of talk about throughout this whole recording. And that's something that people can always have a conversation about. You know what you know, what was the correct choice here? And it's kind of one of those questions that's sort of hard to answer, I guess. But I like that.


Yeah. Thank you. I have OK, I have my can only take away your interpretation of this, it's very easily so. I apologize. But so I kind of took this as the filmmaker is really just making a comment or a commentary on just the state of horror movies like the genre. And just I felt like a little bit supported by this, listening to Jugada Drew Goddard talk about how he kind of wanted to not reinvent the genre, but just kind of like remind people like why these are fun in a way, or kind of like just kind of poke fun at them, too.


So I kind of like my take away from this was that this was sort of like a message about like the crazy things that filmmakers have done or, you know, substitute filmmakers for, like the lab workers here that they do to entertain the masses or the ancient gods. And it's kind of like we like horror movies are still using like these ancient tactics to like a studio people to give them money to do movies or whatever, or like the masses or whatever.


So, like, ancient things, I like kind of like a lot of these, like 80s horror movies are filled with sort of like needless nudity, dumb and shallow characters, super low concept plots like have no heart to them. And I felt like this was kind of like the masses or ancient gods deserve more and better in this movie. Does that and that was them going, hey, wake up, like write your characters well, where people care about them, you know, and they don't make them stupid, like have them make decisions.


But even though they're making smart decisions, they keep losing. It's like do that. And that's kind of what I was getting from this, that it was like the filmmakers being like you could do a good horror movies without having super shallow characters and like just like dumb stuff and especially like the whole like needless nudity part of this, because I felt like that they were really harping on the whole male gaze theory in this movie. I don't know if you are familiar with that, but there's this feminist theory called Like The Male Gaze, and it's about, sorry, I'm really talking to Nate here.


I'm not trying to like mansplaining this to the people, but just talk about like, can I film theories or whatever. But it's this theory of how women are portrayed in movies and as such because like movies are made by like male filmmakers and they're kind of like trying to tailor this to like a male audience or whatever and sort like that whole two way mirror scene. It starts out with Dana undressing and holding the male characters, like watching her undress. He's kind of like having sex.


Should I watch this? Should or not? And then he steps up, says, no, let's not. And then it kind of switches to where she watches him undress and it kind of sticks out because horror movies don't portray men in that way. We don't we don't normally have, like, this lingering shot of men undressing in movies. So it was kind of just like, oh, this feels weird, sort of. And the whole Jewelz dancing in the living room and making out the wolf and all that, it's very much pointing out this is kind of weird.


Like it sticks out and like an odd way and especially like, you know, when she does take her top off and the lab technicians are all kind of like just drooling over this. It's it sticks out like it makes you feel uncomfortable. It's kind of like, see how weird this is. Like was this needless kind of think that's like what I got from it. It's kind of like there's all these weird tropes and triggers in these movies, like maybe they don't need it, they just need better writing.


So that's kind of what I got from this.


Yeah, I love that. Oh I like I didn't pick up on that. I think that's great. Yeah. And I just, I just been trying to read more books and essays about stuff like this. All this kind of came up to me. This, the whole theory. I feel like I should credit who came up with this or the whole theory of the male gaze is from a film critic, Laura Movie from 1975. So lots of if you all want to just like Google hers, like lots of good stuff you can read about.


This whole theory is kind of cool. But so that's kind of like out from this, that horror movies could be better. Just write them better. And that's what I got from this. Yeah, I think they're getting better.


I mean, I feel like there are so many that don't follow that typical, you know, like, OK, we've got to have like the shirtless one mean she's got to be the one that dies first. And then we've got, you know, the most like sensible characters, the one that maybe lives. It's like there's always kind of follow this particular plot line. And like you said, yeah, a lot of it seems kind of like templated, but I feel like a lot of that's breaking that structure lately, especially with, like some newer, newer horror movies that are coming out.


Yeah, I think I feel like that does happen. But then it's kind of cyclical where it's like we're one formula works. So then like the people who aren't as original just kind of like jump on that train and kind of make that same movie over and over to the point where they just kind of like they're beating a dead horse. It's just like the same movie over and over. It's very repetitive. And because I don't watch horror movies that much, I feel that way with, like, superhero movies in particular.


Uh. Like enough is enough. Yeah, right, yeah, I mean, I definitely think it's like something that you have to balance things like. Yeah, like those typical plot lines or what, please. The masses, like when you're talking about, like, superhero films, I mean, that's what a larger audience is going to want to see. You know, they want to see like the we're going to introduce these characters. There's going to be something crazy happen.


We're going to resolve that. There's going to be like a good happy ending. And like that's kind of like how it's going to be.


And I think I think for I think what's interesting is, like a lot of people that really do love horror films don't necessarily care as much about that.


But I think it's just interesting, like, you kind of have to strike a balance between like, well, we don't want to make it so weird that nobody's going to like it.


It's almost inaccessible. But also at the same time, you know, like we've got to try to make something different with a genre where, like I mean, the goal is still going to be something's going to scare the shit out of you.


Someone's going to die potentially. You know, we're still trying to, like, make you scared. So, you know, how can we do that differently? And I think having the does a good job of like we're still recognizing that these are classics, but like also, you know, let's recognize that we could do a different. And I think that's what made it so special in this stuck out for all these years.


So, OK, so you bring up a good point. So with people that do love horror movies like the way that both of you do, so what what about those movies? Is what OK, what about those movies draws you so much to them? Because like for me, I, I just can't grasp why, you know, people like horror movies so much. Just I just it's really just me. I can't get past the core. So like what is it for you two that stands out so much and that really draws you to them?


You know, I think I think for me I just like stuff. It's different and I like stuff that challenges what people are comfortable with. I think being uncomfortable and seeing something you're not used to seeing it kind of changes your perspective.


It kind of opens you up to, you know, your mind to different, you know, ideas and not necessarily talking about like horror specifically is like sometimes can be pretty fucked up. And it's like how how did how did that come out of somebody's head? But then at the same time, I like that it does. It's a really good way to challenge what is considered mainstream and actually bring that into a larger scale audience to like, oh, yeah, these are these are some interesting ideas.


I mean, it this, in a sense, an art form in you know, a lot of it comes from, you know, the history. And there's like a lot of, you know, crazy special effects that happen and understanding like the design and the process that goes behind that is it's just amazing when you when you think about, like how much it's developed over the years. And I think for me also, I just love I just like dark stuff.


So in the most simplest form, I just like to not necessarily like fucked up stuff, but I like to be like weirded out. I'm like, what did I just watch? And I think the more I'm like, what the fuck was that? The more like. Actually I really liked that because it was just so different.


Yeah, I, I agree with I agree with everything you had to say. I kind of for me I mean it's not so much like being scared. Like obviously I do a movie podcast's, I'm a fan of movies. And just so I like, you know, studying directors and like what their whole philosophy is and hearing horror directors talk about horror films. It's so different from other directors talk about like dramas or, you know, like they're sort of kind of just not horror movies.


It's so different. It's like a it's usually a tier of its own. I'm not saying like it's a tier higher or lower. It's just like a completely separate class of movies. And there's so much like while some people may not like horror movies and they may not get it, they might kind of think it's low concept or just, you know, just like a Gore fest. There is so much love and care that goes into these movies because they're like they're nodding to all the people that came before them.


Like there are so many. Like they tell Jordan Peele, for example, his movie with Get Out. There's a lot of nods to some of the prior movies, like Nine Living Dead was something that was heavily influenced him. To make that movie in horror has always been that genre that that you could talk about something that is taboo and put it into the message of your movie. And people don't even get it. So like like like we get out.


I mean, you know, that's a movie obviously talks about racism, systemic racism, and that's something that it's still going on today. And that's what the movie is about. But like people still go watch it and they're not, like, offended, you know what I mean? Or there's like the I think it's the pride of Dracula. I, I don't have the date on me. But, you know, that came out several decades ago.


And I mean, that movie is kind of about like a homosexual love affair almost. And so and that's something that's that was very taboo at the time. But like that's what that movie's about. People go and watch it. And so, like, the genre has been used to sort of manipulate a message and think they always like in because I like to see. Creative people get with these horror movies because I think, like you kind of say Disney, they kind of seem repetitive or they can seem, you know, oh, another slasher movie or whatever.


But I always like saying, OK, that's a challenge. How did so-and-so put a twist on it and make it different kind of cabin in the woods? How do they make it different and inventive? And I always like seeing that. And so I always like to try to just have a whole segment on this podcast. So what's the message of the movie? I love trying to decipher the message from horror movies because it does seem it can seem like very straightforward.


This movie is just trying to scare you, but there's always something deeper to it because it's tapping into something innate in you that scares you. So what about your mind scares you? And how did this movie subconsciously or even upfront just do that? So I always love that. So that's kind of why I'm drawn to horror movies in a nutshell. Sorry I just rambled so much, but ok, ok, I like that. So you guys really just kind of give me a new perspective on that.


And I was very curious. I wanted to I think I'd ask Carrodus this previously, but I, I didn't want to go too much into detail because I wanted to you know, you're at full fledged. That that's fun. I think hearing that I could probably go into these movies with a little bit more of an open mind, because I know like watching some of the movies that we have, like upcoming for October, I was just like kind of a little bit, but now, like, kind of hearing it from people who actually like really do enjoy these types of things.


Like, I think that's I think that's pretty cool. Yeah.


And that all being said, like I I'm still a chicken. Like I like paranormal stuff. It scares the shit out of me. Like I watch a movie, like when we watched Hereditary together in theaters.


I mean, I went home and I like stuck with me for a few days. So I do love working with me, but they still don't. I was about to say they still like they still affect me. And I still you know, most of the time I sleep with the TV on because I hate the dark.


OK, I was actually I was going to be my follow up question. I was like, can you guys sleep at night? Well, sometimes I can.


Yeah. For like sometimes like I can't stop thinking about something I saw or like I'll do that. The hip hop from the bathroom to the bedroom right past the hallway.


And it's like the movies that are like super grounded that really scare me, like the strangers. That movie I am. I cannot sleep every time I watch that movie. I especially like if my girlfriend's out of town or something and I'm home alone with like, fuck, why did I do this to myself? Yeah.


Oh my gosh. Yeah. The most recent I just watched host on Schutter movie, I couldn't sleep. I literally did the hop skip. Every single time I had to go to the bathroom was like, fuck, like I'm going to see the fucking lights hanging from my ceiling as I like walk down the hallway the next minute. Yes.


Oh my gosh. Yeah. And right now, actually, like, I'm in a huge like three storey building by myself. Oh, it's kind of it's a little creepy.


Nobody is in this building. So I'm just like, well, if I hear something, this is all what's the deal right now?


And the lights go out, you know, something's wrong. Oh, God. Oh, well, I got a I think that this is a pretty difficult question for this movie. So should there be a sequel, maybe a prequel? I see. That's something that's going to ask. Like how what kind of like prequel would you want from this? Hmm. How did these ritual start? I mean, that's that's basically it.


But yeah, I would I want more answers about like the rituals and like how and maybe maybe they answered this. How do they make these monsters. Do they find them.


Yeah, they said that they have they're part of the old world and like they were just creatures from that kind of like what the ancient gods.


And they used to like Rome, because there is that part where Truman says, oh, my gosh, they're like from nightmares. He gets corrected. No nightmares are from these that they've been around forever. Mm. I know. OK, ok. Well then that would be a fun movie to kind of see like them hashing out like what the ritual is going to be then capturing these monsters. Then how, how is technology kind of grown around like this, this thing.


Because obviously I mean I'm sure it wasn't always like TV monitors, you know, back in the day. Right. But how how did it get from where it was to where it is today? And like the adaptations that they made to kill people easier? I like the little note you said about like capturing the monsters. I was what I had. I would have I would love to see either a movie or heck, even like a Netflix series of like just like the monster hunters going in, like capturing these.


I think they'll be a lot of fun because, like, I like Pokémon style. Oh, yeah, that's a good one.


OK, Ash Ketchum bachelor.


Yeah, I was I was thinking like in terms of a sequel that I would want to see, like the happenings in the in these other countries. But at the same time I kind of answered my own question or just answered my own thought. Because I mean, these are all based on different horror movies, right, or just different movie generals, like, I guess I can just watch that and just make a connection as to how they were defeated.


Right. That's a good point. You just want if you want a sequel, just go watch any horror movie and just it's kind of fun to go back and watch other horror movies and think of how I think how this movie influences that. Like, what did they do to make them make that decision or whatever? Or like what Trinket from this movie summoned Jason or, you know, whatever in this. There's also any final thoughts before we wrap it up?


No, I just had a lot of fun with this movie. Let's assume it's great. It's always it's always on my October list whenever that comes around. So it's so much fun. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on to talk about Kevin, which was a total blast. It's always fun. We have guests on, so thank you again.


Thanks for having me. I had so much fun.


Uh, you're my first you're my first guest on this. Oh, my gosh. I'm honored.


Yeah, extremely nervous also.


But, you know, I just hope that I hope that we can still be friends after me publicly embarrassing.


You know, it's OK. I appreciate you almost made me cry at the beginning anyway.


So, so sweet. So so, Morty, is there anything that you would do, anything you'd like to plug before hopping off? Yeah, actually.


So I'm part of a local film festival in Chattanooga called The Frightening Ourselves, and it happens every year around Halloween. Usually it's an in-person pop up. So that's what we'll do just kind of around town. And this year, because of covid, it's going to be virtual. And so I don't I don't think they have the website up yet. But if you were interested in checking that out Halloween weekend, you can go to a chat film fest. Org chat spell S.H. Waititi.


And so the tickets should be going out. I guess by the time that this is released, it should be the ticket chardy be out and it's basically just going to be like an access code to like a streaming service and you'll be able to stream all the films. There will be live events. I think there will be like Q&A with the filmmakers. There will be maybe some like live music. And they're basically you should be able to make it as fun as possible, virtually.


So that'll still be happening. And that's accessible to everybody outside of Chattanooga. I think as long as you're in the US, it should be extremely well.


That sounds like a lot of fun and something I'm probably going to want to tune in for, and I'll be sure to put that link in our show now. So people to swipe over in the link should be right there. All right. Thanks, everyone, for listening. And thank you again for coming on. Great job. Thanks.


Bless you already.


Thanks, everyone, for listening. And be sure to tune in next week for our episode on Sleepy Hollow.


I'm really excited. Talk about it.