You should make an Instagram account for Nerka and friends, your parents. And don't say anything to them. Hi, welcome back to another episode of Girls Happy March, Smug Face about coming up on a year. The pandemic this month is going to it's going to hit different. You made us little smug face like something smelled bad. And I was trying not to cry. So I thought about March. I am really excited for March. I'm going to see my parents.

All of our parents are fully vaccinated, fully vaccinated. My aunt and uncle like all the oldies in my life, so I'm driving home. I met next week and I'm going to see my parents and I hug my mom for the first time that.

Yeah, she laughs. She won't let you, you know, let's summer your mom's like I could Sylvia transmitter. She's like, yeah, there could be a droplet my nostro. I don't wanna risk it. She did tell me I was like, so like can I stay at the house? Can we go out to dinner? And she was like, maybe in the spring of twenty, twenty two. I was like, I want to be really clear that I'm not going to touch you till twenty twenty, twenty, twenty two.

And she'll be like we've been we've gone this long. Yeah. My dad's. Yeah. My dad's like do you think it's safe if I go to a concert. I'm like wow you're coming out of the gate. What concert. Bill. You know about the underground concert. These seventy three meets your dad's like I've heard of these like kind of endure underground orgies.

Do you think it'd be safe if I go honestly, if he did that, it would make me like you're more listen, are we ready for you?

You'll go with him? No, I wanna go first is with your dad. What are we doing right now? You are we actually a new partner day things to try for supporting girls. Gary is the first of its kind. A luxury hot sauce with an ultra unique blend of real black truffles and spice get 15 percent off site wide plus free shipping with promo code DJ at Trus Dotcom Syzygy and big shout out to Helike sleep take. There are two minutes sleep quiz and they'll match you to a mattress that'll give you the best sleep of your life.

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Get 20 percent off your first order by visiting pretty litter dotcom and use promo code good ones today I am excited talk about this today's episode.

I'm so excited OK. We have a man that has been with me in every hotel I have been in for like a decade. Hundreds of hotel rooms. He's the only man. Is he my longest relationship maybe. Yes. Maybe you want to announce who it is. I'm so excited. Its name Shulman from Gatefold. Oh my gosh. It's happening. I'm like I feel like I'm a big fan. Like I watch Neves documentary. Do you remember the name?

Did a documentary before the show. I the guy that I lost my virginity to, I briefly got back together with for five minutes when I was living in New York. He told me about it. He told it so. My brother told me about it. He was like this catfish thing, you got to watch it. So we watched the documentary as a family and then the show came about and yeah, I mean, I feel like I would watch Catfish in real time, like I was watching it live on MTV.

And what do you mean in real time? Like, I watched it whenever it came on, I don't know, 9:00 p.m. on Tuesday. I'm saying, like, I tuned in at that time, like it was the nineties. I know that she was so revolutionary. And back then there weren't that many ways to stop people. It was just like MySpace and Facebook, as if you guys are getting catfish in twenty, twenty one. You got a problem.

But it's a real. Ah, and we're going to I'm sorry, there's there's more ways to catfish, a little bit ways to find out that you are being catfish. And this dovetails into like a very crazy thing that happened to me. I recently got catfish. Yeah. So we're going to rain is going to hold on that and nieve that story. And but we do with slightly tease it last week because there's a dick pic involved that we all know that dick pic was the smoking gun for me, for me personally.

We'll get to it. There were so many other clues.

I was getting catfish, but the perfect dick pic was what actually knew that he was catfish because no one has washboard abs and a dick that looks like that. I have the perfect dick. I know he like Google like perfect dick. Well, I don't know. And then can you reverse Google image search. I reverse Google image search that deck. We're going to talk more about that with me because so many people want to know, like, how do I do that?

I hopefully he still has those skills, but I don't know. And he's like a dad now. He's a beautiful wife, his two kids. But yeah. We're going to unpack your guys the stories first. Yes. We're going to go a little backwards. We are going to tell some stories.

You guys submitted them. We'll bring Nieve in and then we're going to go even more backwards and maybe do a wreck right now.

What do you think? Oh, my God. OK, I was gonna tell you I'm fine to have me last night and the Dirac's older stories, OK? I think we are all over the place. I just. It's a tiny. A little anecdote, but last night I posted this thing on my Instagram story I had ordered. You're telling this story now I'm talking to you. Oh, no. OK, I got to go. OK, sorry, I thought the backpack Rexburg keep going off.

I ordered Levein cookies to my apartment. I didn't know the living or the cookies are substantial. It's a heavy cookie.

They're unbelievable. So a friend of mine Emily sent them the day after dhuey passed. Like that was one of the first things that came in hot and she was like, go get these, go get this thing from your doorman. And I had heard of them, but I feel like I'd actually held off because I was like, that's why I don't want to do crack, because I'll probably get addicted. So like, I never had them and they hit me at the perfect time.

I'm like crying and do these cookies like I was like Ashley submerged from her trauma like 30 pounds heavier, like they are believable.

They're like two thousand calories. A cookie seems low. I know I might be five.

It's a daily calorie count, but I persuaded four Levein cookies. That's how you know you're single. And I put it on my Instagram story and I was like, this is what I'm doing tonight. Somebody needs to have sex with me soon. It's so strong. I responded. I was like, did you really just write somebody needs to have sex with me soon on your Instagram story, go off your truth.

And then I spent the night like I was talking with the response on that. That's why I was going to tell you this. I was checking my DMS.

I got like such sweet messages from girls all night. Third straps are for you girls. They're not every day. I was the third drop. It's just like you guys just gassed me up. I don't get laid. I get I got this three. I also put my answer. I'm sorry about squirting out as you were like did I miss an episode about it? So I got thousands yesterday about oatmeal raisin cookies and squirting and people talking all the time.

The first time they gave me a blowjob to completion. So like, I have all these really sweet, supportive messages about stuff that I was thinking, like, God, I love our audience because like so many other people couldn't post a story like that because, like, half of their audience is male and they'll just get some, like, disgusting onslaught of just like people saying terrible thing. Oh, Cameron, fuck you. And I was thinking, I like it's so sweet the like we have such a I personally such a large female following and so to you.

And so this girl's got to eat. But then it hit me like a cousin. One wants to sleep.

OK, listen, it's not that I think so many guys probably started typing that and then they were like, I don't want to end up on her Instagram story next. You know, I'm saying like the like, I think people are just getting more and more scared as they should. OK, thank you for inviting me in the dorms. The other day I was like, no, sir, sorry. I think they're a little scared. Like, this girl's a big deal.

She's out here just posting so much about her life. She already just posted a damn about Squirty. And like, I think you see a damn about squirting that you posted. Then you see this third stripe of, you know, I want to fuck somebody. And I think a guy's like, I could be next day.

You're putting a positive spin on it because he was like, I get high. And then I see the world, like, more clearly for like what it really is.

And like all day I was like, this is so nice. Our audience is so wonderful. And I got high.

And I was like, oh, it's because no one wants to know. It's not about that. OK, thank you for putting a positive spin on that because I was nervous. I love when, like I mean, you and I really are together all the time. We know each other's every move. So like when you post something that like I wasn't aware of and it like makes me laugh. Like I slide in there like I'm a fan, like I'm like, oh my God, that's so funny.

Like you like I can't believe you just said that. I was like, really? It's just so bold. I love doing something. It's just it's like it sounded so like it just I felt it in my soul. It was so it was so real. Like it was like the way you said it, it wasn't like vulgar. It was just like somebody to have sex with me.

So I think that's what I was doing. I also am like the markets.

Somebody really does. You'd have sex with like, you know what it's like I got so much dark, like at the beginning of the year, you really get nervous and yeah, like I take it away. But listen, I recently could have reached out for that person for some dick this week. And you did it. Yeah. Give think one even. Yeah. Helena, are you ready for my rack. Yeah. OK, I love this movie so much.

It's not a heartache. It's from Jillian eighteen. So it's a little newer for me now. Yeah. And it is bookclub. I don't know this well Diane.

Oh I don't know this so. Right, right, right.

I found a very recently that I'm a Diane Keaton Stan. And I said something about like, did you see Diane's Instagram? And she was like Diane who actually Keith and Diane Keaton. You find out these sleepyheads Mollie's ever since. But I love Diane Keaton.

I think she's like such a strong, powerful woman and I love Jane Fonda, Jane Fonda, then it and then Candice Bergen, who was Murphy Brown. Right. And then Mary, whatever. Who was the mom and step brothers? I don't know her name. She's just in everything. She's married to Ted Danson, I want to say. But anyway, married to somebody for like 40 years. So Diane Keaton, Jane Fonda, bad bitch lover, I met her before back in Atlanta and she used to be married to Ted Turner, who started CNN.

So, you know, just while we're here on Daddy's You every day and then Candice Bergen and then Mary, whatever, stepbrother's mom. And they're these four women, they've had a book club for 40 years. And I just it's really it's they're in their 60s, maybe even 70s. So I just you know, I love that. I love seeing, like, a glimpse into my future. And, like, I love stories about like women and older women just living their best lives.

And they really at once one is married. But like her, sex life is kind of like on the rocks. One is widowed, one is divorced and one has never been married. So they really cover it all. And they just have had this book club for 40 years and they start writing off Shades of Grey and it just kind of like what had happened. They're all kind of like on the dating scene. One of them gets on Bumble.

Diane Keaton meets this guy, like this hot guy. And it's just it's amazing. It's like Sex and the City in their 60s, 70s, 70s, whatever, of like dating and trying to get laid. And it's just I feel like there's even like Carrie, Samantha, Miranda, Charlotte, like, I don't know, just the parallel felt so great to me. I laughed out loud a lot. I cried at one part, but like, I found myself laughing out loud a lot.

Like it's just like Jane Fonda. She's just so spicy. It's really well-written. And I just found myself, like, loving every second of it. I was like that when it was over. And it's just great. I love to see I want to see more like that. That's what we talk about. Sex in a city like that. Hopefully it's kind of the same vibe and they're in their fifties. So bookclub like obsessed with it. And now you guys know I am.

And Diane Keaton stand. I'll check it out. So we are going to get into the cappers portion. We're going to read your listener submissions. But before we do that, and I will tell my catfish story, I want to tell it to Nieve because it's not.

But I want to hear if you've been catfish because I don't think I know this and nothing like super crazy, like traditional. I think like a couple times I really got the like guy was way shorter, which I think, you know, like happens in this one time. It happened like I was really bummed. I'd been like talking to him. I thought he was just going to be like bigger or like he played sports in college and he was just like so small.

And I had like I'd already taken a shot before I went down to meet him. And so I just like went with it. We ended up like he was he had pretty good face, but like we hung out the whole night. I got wasted and I brought him home and, like, used out a sex toy for the first night, like, I mean, like, never stop calling me ever. Like, it was just like I didn't care because it's like I'm not I'm not this guy.

And then, like, the small little hands, like, whatever.

But and then I, I got I've been had fished.

This is a term I learned I was I was today years old, so I had fished which you know, no, no shade to bald men. Rayna prefers them. I've a lot love it. Yeah. And I'm not saying I do like a guy with a full head of hair. I don't like really like a guy that's balding. So I'm kind of like, you know, take it off or don't we don't want like a comb over and in between her, I don't know, in between her and then when they had fish you so you'll see sometimes on dating profiles they'll crop the top of their head or they'll only be wearing hats on dating apps.

It's really obvious who's hot fishing. And then I like had been hanging out with this guy. He lives and we met when we were walking our dogs and we started going on walks and we were doing outside stuff. And then the first time we went to a restaurant, we walked in, he took off his hat and I was like always fully bald guy, also virginity catfish to me where that guy was like all over like that was a guy that was the born again virgin.

But like, he had been like rubbing his dick between my butt cheeks, like I rubbed his dick with him about she came on my back and then two days later told me he was a born again virgin. I cannot. So I got confused by him twice. And then that had that fish once, catfish.

And then the other thing I think this was not too long ago, someone sent me a full blown profile of someone using all of my picks. Remember this?

But she said she was twenty seven. So I was like flattered. I would be flattered if I found out that anybody was doing that. You guys don't do that to me. Like, honestly, you could pick. Sorry, better look, you know, I don't know. But I was flattered. I was like, gosh, I would be flattered too. If somebody chose me, you could chose anybody. You chose me. And then I will say I feel like I got we talked about before, like humor, comedy, catfish, where someone's like really funny on text or like within the dating app and then they're not in person.

And the best pre date banter I've had in so long was Michael Jackson's voice. So that was like a bummer because we had such great banter and he showed up. And it wasn't just that he had Michael Jackson voice, it was that he was like, just really not that funny. You I think he was shy, but like he was not who he was over tax. So I feel like who is writing those tax?

I feel like I'm having an opposite situation with this guy right now. I'm kind of talking to who like is in comedy and he's funny in comedy and in real life he's not funny. And I'm like, what? Where is the disconnect here? Like everything he says, it's like almost funny. It's like when you're like it's like trying to land a sneeze. You just can't sneeze. I just I don't know. I feel like like what's going on.

Can't quite get there. Yeah. We don't we I mean we know a lot of comedians, you can like write jokes really well and that are just like incapable of forming sentences in person. Yeah, that happens, it happens, but on the show, once they're not going to give me a name so you can take your guesses, it was 2018 summer, you know. All right. Well, we're going to get into your guys submissions before we get into with me.

But before that, we're going to thank our partners with some fun new ones to think, OK, well, this one isn't new, but we haven't talked about them in a while. And that is Helix Helix Sleep. I'm going to make this announcement, the podcast. I'm actively finally trying to get my Helix matchers to New York from my parents house. I'm over my mattress here and I'm going to try to get it here. I'm going to try to get my mattress back to my parents house until you're over your mattress like you get over clothing and ashes over her mattress.

I just had it like it's not new. You know, I've been here like four years now. I'm just like, I want that. He mattress is brand new, is just sitting there, my parents. OK, so Helix Sleep, favorite mattress I've ever had. I have the moonlight locks. I'll get into it. But we do have a discount for you guys. You just go to Helix Sleep Dotcom Sluggy take their two minute sleep and they'll match you to a customized mattress that will give you the best sleep your life.

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Sleep sleep at the bottom of Thailand for Hilux I love. Don't steal it. You'll be on notice. That's ours for you. That it's happened to us before jealously about the pillows. We do we on that trademarked. OK. Yeah ok. We have a brand new partner that I'm very excited talk about is Trump Hot Sites, which I'm going to tell you all about. But I'm really excited that they're working with us because I have been a fan of their food for their hot sauce for years.

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It's gluten free. It's non GML. They offer a bunch of different stuff. Their main product is the black truffle hot sauce. They also do a white chocolate sauce. You do a hotter sauce that they have a mayonnaise, they have tomato sauce. So when I first heard of hot sauce, I was like, do I need truffles in my house? Yes, I do. My favorite thing about Trump is the consistency. It's like a pretty thick condiment.

I don't love, like, a watery hot sauce. Oh, yeah. God, I love it. I like I love the travel flavor. I put it on eggs. I put it on vegetables, I put it on chicken. I put it in a lentil soup. The other negs. I want a little heat and some truffle in my lentil soup. Unbelievable. I think it'd be great on dumplings. It just goes so well on anything.

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And then I was like, wait, we get to work with them now. So we like yeah, we loved it before. Yeah, it's great. And they do these gifts. That's if you guys like your mini bottle gives that and they also do a sat with the white truffle and the black table hot sauce. It comes and he's gorgeous really. Like Heavy-Duty Gold boxes. The packaging is fantastic. If you guys are looking for a gift like I love the idea for like Father's Day or just like anything like the foodie in your life.

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OK, and I just thought it was about that and I thought he had like a heard and it wasn't he just was sending me something else, which I'm like it's like I get extra text. It was like a funny thing, like about it, about a croissant, which I'm like, OK, what are you doing? Because you were told to leave me alone.

But no, I just thought that if we ever told them this last week, the guy that I was talking about that like I'm really good friends with the like told me he didn't want to sleep together. That's the guy that told him to leave. True. It's so true.

He's just out here, cockblock and everybody, including himself, you know. But I saw two texts from him and I was like, oh, God, he heard the episode, which I also wouldn't care. Like we talk like, you know, we don't say anything on the show. I don't care. I when I'm what I'm saying stuff on the show, I'm prepared for those people to listen. Yeah. I'm always just like e OK, are we ready?

I'll be funny. If you were like you weren't supposed to hear that.

Like a million people heard that actually. OK, we're going to read some of your listeners submissions for getting catfish. You guys sent such really like creative, funny ones, apparently with a million ways to catfish. And we thought we would get into that first and then we'll give you guys advice and tips and things like that with me. Yeah. And then these are just kind of all across the board. I mean, there's there is one that's like pretty standard, close to like what you would have seen on the show, Catfish and the other ones are just kind of stuff that made us laugh.

That was like in the same vein. So I'm going to start with this one. I told Rayna not to read this one. So she's this is going to be a nice surprise for her. OK, at the beginning of the pandemic, I was talking to a guy in Henge and we joked about how our quarantine romance would never be able to exist in the real world because of lockdown. We texted every day and talked on the phone for hours.

I love the show Catfish and joked about how we had an face time before when he said his camera was broken. I was pretty confident he was messing with me and was not a catfish. But when I tried to FaceTime him, he ignored the call. I tried again the next day and again he didn't answer. I started to question if he was if he really was catfish me and decided to try calling one last time. This to start face of it three times.

We have friends like that. To my surprise, he picked up and was naked in the shower.

He was just waiting for her to call. Everybody was I was speechless and so flustered. Talk about a weird way to meet someone. I told him it seemed like he was busy and she let him go. So I hung up. After laughing uncontrollably, I later found out he screenshot my reaction, which was a hilarious first photo for our Cornton relationship. I don't even know if they continue to date. I am so Dederer. Where are they now.

I know she thought she was, she was being catfish and he finally picked up on the fourth face time and he was butt naked in the showers waiting for her to call him when he was butt naked. He was just like, I gotcha bitch. I got to know if they're still together. God damn it, how would she know it?

She knows. We need to know. That is so funny. OK, ok, wait, wait, wait. OK, I lied. I went back into the email. She did give us an update. There was a second paragraph that I had originally thought, OK, they dated for four months through quarantine but never got to do normal life together because of covid. After ending things with him, a friend told me to listen to your episode, your man who's not your man, and it was a game changer.

It is because of my quarantine relationship that I discovered. Gigi. Oh my gosh. Your podcast is truly got me through some rough quarantine moments. Oh, my gosh. So her cover story letter to us love. And I'm so I went back and looked at me too. That's a beautiful woman after the naked shower phone answer. But they met up. They did meet up. It sounds like they did. Yeah. I mean, I don't think they were just like virtual the whole time in four months, like they must have met up at some point.

I feel like catfish thrived during quarantine.

So it's a dream for catfish is can't meet up. It's epidemic. I know. I feel like it really had its moment. Cafe Moment in twenty twenty. OK, ok. This movie laughed so hard. All right. Almost ten years ago, back when chat rooms were a thing before smartphones, I met this cute dude from the UK on Chatroulette. I you know, I do not know what that is. Yeah. My friend and I were trying it out when it first was created, before I was overrun by old saggy dicks.

This guy, Camden was so hot and played in a Beatles cover band. I was 19 and super dumb. Just kept chatting with this complete stranger across the world. Cool. I really connected with him and we exchanged Skype info and phone numbers. We continued to talk until one day he asked me to come to Seattle for the Christmas holiday because he would be in the states staying with his family. I live on the East Coast and was again a child.

I ended up flying across the country at nineteen years. Old spent 10 days floating through Seattle with a hot British guy and his band, I stayed in a nice hotel, ate so much yummy food and had the best sex for 10 days straight. I felt like I was on another planet. I was like vibing my life away from my life away. Cho came to an end and I was like, so sad. I was in love. This guy was literally to start a new life with him in the UK.

Alua. I didn't even have a degree. Where are you going to go since Facebook and MySpace were really the only way to stalk people? Then I found his band's Facebook page when I got home and found out they were completely American, fully just lived in Bellingham, which is a suburb outside of Seattle. I met his friends, family and hung out with this dude for over a week. Never once noticed he was faking an accent. How did he set this up to his friends?

Hey, guys, I'm pretending to be British or this girl. I'm flying out here soon, so I need you to just play along with it. I'm talking during sex, a full on British freak, morning coffee. A sweet British treat. Oh, my God. Never once did he break character. Pretty sure this dude is fully a con artist. I left message messaging and being like, what the fuck? Who are you in response? I never, ever forget it.

And then she put in quotes. Just a bit of fun. Calm down. That was his response. Oh, my God. All in all, I got an all expense paid trip to Seattle with amazing sex and adventures and a British version of this hot Pacific Northwest dude at the age of 19. Truly my when his last stay safe out there. Never know when someone's literally not at all who they say they are, OK. The craziest part is that he did it in front of friends and family.

Well, listen, is he Hilaria Baldwin OK? Yeah.

Or maybe he had like a tragic car accident. He just told people like a changed man, no people, fake accents. Maybe he just loves British culture and that's his truth. And he would grow up or just get it. But like we have heard this story this year already, this is crazy. Also, like I we're going to talk about this today. Like, how do you confront someone when you find this out? Like, I'm I'm just like I'm so bad.

He did it right. She said, who the fuck are you? And he said, calm down. Yeah. Gaslighting extraordinaire. The people that are willing to do this, though, are also willing to go to an extent to make you feel like you're insane. So I'm hundred percent like gasoline. Gaslighting goes with it. OK, this one is this is a fav this is a catfish on a catfish is a double catfish. OK, she says the short version.

My roommate used me to catfish her boyfriend who was pretending to catfish for his friend. I cannot lesli for that. I know I can't read it seven times. Yes. I was like, we need more to this. So thank God she was like the full story. About two years ago, my roommate moved to South Carolina and started dating a guy she met through Bumble. They talk, decided to meet up and eventually started dating. Two months into officially dating.

She happened to see a tender notification come up on his phone. She confronted him and he stated he was only still using his account to, quote, unquote, help out his buddy because, quote unquote, his buddy thought his girl was cheating on him. So this guy was like trying to catfish for his friend. He stated he had been doing it for the past few weeks and she had nothing to worry about. She immediately asked him to stop, delete the accounts.

And he agreed a few weeks go by and she sees another notification. Instead of calling him out on it, she calls me and we decide to create a Tinder account with my pictures for her to see if she can catch him. She scrolls for about twenty minutes and finds his profile, same as it was when she matched with him on Tinder. She swiped right in immediately matches with my profile. They start to message and he asks to meet up that night.

She agrees, and they set a time about an hour later. About an hour later, she arrives at the restaurant and sees her boyfriend sitting at the bar waiting for his date. Shit hit the fan, to say the least, and they ended up breaking up. Thank goodness I still have the receipts if you need them. This is incredible. I believe that it's true 100 percent. I totally believe this also happens all the time. Yeah, I think the women I would do I would spend an entire week doing this.

I would spend a lifetime doing this. Yeah. I'll do some crazy shit that is. So it took me a while to understand that email. I mean.

Yeah. Then when you really think of the way she said it was so convoluted, but it's just that he was like he lied about cap. He wasn't actually catfish and he lied. He said he was catfish for his friend. Right. But he was just trying to cheat on her. Yeah, it was just on it. He was just tender. OK, stay well ladies out there. OK, OK. This is the last one. And this one is a true MTV catfish style story.

OK, so just drop em. First off, thank you for being you and everything you do to empower women and people in general. You asked for catfish stories and I knew my time had come.

She's sitting here. She's like, one day they'll do her like music starts playing. I don't want to hear my time is cubs' can you just picture, like, pounding it out on the keys. OK, girl, your time has come OK. So when I was eighteen my mom stepped up, split up. I was devastated in a very vulnerable place and was. I'm actually looking for love in all the wrong places, i.e. Facebook, I had seen this cute guy named Sebastian O'Neal interacting with a few other girls from my hometown and thought maybe I should shoot my shot.

We talked every day for weeks about everything we could think about. We totally clicked. He was so nice and loving and said all the right things my 18 year old self would want to hear. It became so intense that we decided to be in a Facebook official relationship without even meeting each other. He told me you lived in Toronto, which was about four and a half hours away from the small city I lived in. He said he didn't drive, so he was going to come visit me on the bus.

I was so excited. I waited all day when I got the text, I'm outside. I rushed out my building door to find no one there. I feel in my heart like things like reading this, like to feel that 18, like I can't even imagine to fight. So she found no one there. I texted Seb, so she calls him Seb this whole time, Sebastian, to find out if he had got the address wrong. No reply.

I called no answer, which I was expecting because he said his phone was broken. I didn't hear back from him for two weeks. This started a year long cycle of behavior like this. I mean, this is exactly like the show. I mean, it's nuts to say I'm outside. I feel like sick about it. And you're like like she's going through some shit. Like, it makes me so sad. There were many people that he had been interacting with claiming they had met him.

One was this girl, Larissa. She and I became friends very quickly and I often talk to her about my concerns of Saib being real or not. So I'm assuming she just like saw people. He was talking to us on Facebook and just like kind of started messaging with them. That's what happens on on the show. On the show. Right. So over the time of mine and subs relationship, because they did like reconnect, he sent me many gifts, a ring, a necklace, many plaid shirts, my fashion at the time, a bunch of letters, including one that had one hundred and fifty things that he loved about me.

I started as your first red flag.

OK? Yes, OK. I got a four page letter, OK, it was on one hundred fifty days.

He liked it. Well, OK. It was a four page single spaced type letter but everything that he loved about me and then he broke up with me six weeks later. Oh you can relate. OK, so the idea popped into my mind. Huh.

OK, so a hundred fifty things you loved about me. I started to test Saib because I knew after a while that this person couldn't be real and I wanted to find out who he was. I told him for ages I wanted an iPad and then I wanted to go to British Columbia. Larissa invited me out to British Columbia, which I went and got a free trip. Then Larissa bought me an iPad for my birthday. This is just so crazy.

I asked her so many times if she was Sebastian, to which she always said no. To this day, I don't believe her. It's been over ten years now since this happened. I never really got any legit answers, but I still think about this often. And I wish that Catfish was a show when this was happening because I would have written in, but it had been too long since and there's no way to contact this Sebastian O'Neil anymore.

And Larissa blocked me to anyway. If you want to know anything else, I'm happy to answer any questions. You guys are my favorite. I mean, that's insane.

I'm curious, though. So she met this last person on the Internet as well and then took a trip with her or that girl by her or like how they went to British Columbia on this trip.

She met her and went on the trip. Yeah. So, like I mean, it just had to have been Laurissa, right? Oh, my gosh. Now I'm just feel like I'm not going to be thinking about this all night because so Larissa was Internet acting with Sebastian, which she could have been running two accounts.

Well, the thing with all these catfish people, I mean, again, it is so hard to get away with this stuff today. But yes, earlier when it was just MySpace and Facebook, these people would create like a thousand different identities and we'll get into it. But need give you the summary of how he started the show Catfish. But this is basically how it started, is he met somebody on the Internet and that person had created a ton of other fake identities that he was also interacting with.

That was pretty common back. Yeah. So, I mean, obviously that was it. I mean, unless Sebastian was real and him and Larissa were in cahoots, but like that seems doesn't seems odd. So it sounds like it was this girl, which a lot of times you saw that on the show where it was like a different sex look, you know what I mean? Like it was like a woman pretending to be a man or whatever.

OK, well, we're going to get into it and have to we just run through other a couple partners. We don't to interrupt. Oh, that's a great idea. I'm the king himself, actually. Great idea. OK, guys, I'm going to tell you about pretty letter. And I am I also I have another announcement I announced about my helix. I'd like to announce that my parents got another cat. I thought you were in hurry.

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All right guys, and for our next partner, I'm talking about a hello Taishi. You know, actually usually does these activities and I like when she says spray, you're about clean and fresh water. Maybe she'll do it for us. I don't know. Maybe we'll get lucky. I guess it is truly the future of toilet. Obviously, Bidets has been around for a long time, but they cost thousands of dollars. So hello, Toschi. It's it's really revolutionizing going to the bathrooms, revolutionizing your bill.

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OK guys, this is a gas that needs no introduction, but I want to give him one anyway. I'm so excited. He is the creator and executive producer of the movie Catfish, which turned into the show Catfish on MTV, now in its eighth season. He's the host of a podcast by the same name and the star and runner up of the most recent season of Dancing with the Stars of the show, Neeve Shoreman.

Yeah, yeah. A dancer. Yeah, I know.

I honestly, I've always felt like a dancer, but now that I can sort of say that it feels good, it feels good.

Are you dancing around like have you kept with it or.

You know, regretfully, no, I have not since the final, the finale I should say. Yeah, I've been chiseling away at my wife in the hopes that maybe she'll go with me and take some ballroom dance classes. Oh, because obviously it's fun dancing with a pro and Jenna's amazing. But, you know, I'm not really dancing with her. She's just dancing around me and I'm just trying to not screw up. So I'd love to actually learn how to dance with my wife so that we could dance together.

And I just think it would be super fun. Yeah.

Oh, that's so sexy. Like, who does want to. I want to dance with somebody I'm going to like get sexy with after. Yeah. I don't know.

I feel like I'm too jealous of my partner when I'm Dancing with the Stars. Like it's just it's so intense.

It, I thought that definitely comes up right. And I so I asked and I was like how people usually respond to this. And she said generally it's actually the husbands whose wives go on the show to get the most jealous because like the women, their wives are in the arms of this like, you know, super suave, sexy dancing guy. And he's like lifting and spinning and doing all the things that every guy wishes they could do with care.

And then when they're, like awaiting the results, everybody's just like breathing heavy and they look like they're out to fuck. I mean, I'm not saying you, but like, they're always so all over each other. I don't know why we're going down this list, shall I? Yeah, yeah. But I wasn't her partner. Right. I know, right. That was I'm not you're like I'm not here to talk about. That's a separate that's a separate podcast.

OK, so let's talk about catfish. Yes. But, you know, does any of our history with catfish is that we watch it exclusively in hotels all the time. Oh, yeah. Like it's always a great hotel show for sure.

You either you are Detective Stabler and Benson from Law and Order. You are with me in every hotel room.

I love to hear that. And actually my current apartment building. Oh, my God. I'm blanking on her name. One of the girls from my daughter lives with in my building. Oh, gosh. Well, that's a blonde.

Stephanie. Bobby Flay, his ex-wife. No, I think of it Reno will be there if she can figure out the address.

We can see your view kind of. So Irana here. There somebody from Catfish and SPU in the building. She's there. I can't believe it's happening. I'm going to be in your living in an hour. I'm going to go. So we want to hear your origin story. I was going to. How about Catfish, how you started it, how people are still doing and how people can avoid getting catfish. But we asked our listeners what they want to know about getting catfish, and they submitted some, like, really funny one liners.

We just want to ask you, do you want to read them? Yeah, sure. OK, someone said, oh, my God, have you guys seen the show? Catfish, there are so many episodes of catfish. How do people not know they are getting catfish bitches out here not asking to face time? Why do hot people use photos of other hot people to appear even hotter? Am I a cat? Am I a catfish? If I'm white hot on Instagram, then in real life asking for a friend if I thought he had a big dick and then it turns out he did not have a big dick, did I get catfish?

I have been getting mask fish mask fished by men since March, which we've also talked about. Oh wow. And then the last one is girl.

All I know is that I'm in love with Neve. Thank you for this.

So I try and remember and answer all those questions.

Oh no, we want to start with that. But yeah. Why don't you people who are good, most people know your story.

I mean, I remember seeing the the movie, the documentary. And what's interesting, I mean, the the further we get now away from 2010, which is when the documentary came out, if you were people, I think associate me with getting catfish versus me with the show.

And at the end, they're also just younger people who weren't at the age of watch. They didn't see catfish when it came out. And but they've grown up with the show and they don't know that I got catfish. Oh, wow. Yeah. I mean, even people who come on the show oftentimes don't realize that I'm the host because I got catfish and made a documentary about it and now I'm doing it to help people similarly. But anyway, so long story short, 2007, 2006, 2007, I befriended a young girl in Michigan who was an aspiring artist.

She had seen my ballet photography reached out to MySpace to say that she loved my my photos and could use them as the subject of her paintings, which, of course, was so adorable. And she actually looked she made these really cute little watercolor paintings. And that's how we started correspondence, which which then led to a friendship with the mom and their whole family and eventually a flirtation with her older half sister, with whom I began to develop this kind of crush, long distance thing.

And after months and months and months of correspondence and trips planned, but then didn't happen or canceled or something came up one weekend, it was supposed to get whatever eventually decided, OK, enough's enough. I got to go meet this family and this girl who kind of might be my girlfriend if we actually meet. So we went and discovered that the entire family was not at all who they love to be. And it was, in fact, quite the opposite.

And we made this documentary about it and that was Catfish and came out in 2010. And then subsequently I got just inundated with stories and requests for help from people who similarly were in situations where they were talking to them on the Internet and that they had never met. And now all of a sudden it occurred to them that maybe this person wasn't who they said they were. And so that's what we've been doing now is helping people find out the truth since 2010 to 2012, I guess, is what on the show started?

Yeah, I think there's like so I'm such a fan of the show. And as it's evolved, I mean, there's obviously been more avenues to figuring out who people are, but probably more avenues to hide your identity, reaching out to people online. So like, has the show really changed? Because when you started the show, it was like people were creating these Facebook identities. And it's like it's easy to sort of figure that out today. It's it's interesting because, yes, there's a prevalence of social media users now mean everyone's online versus you know, even back in 2007 when I first got categories, like everyone didn't have Instagram or big Instagram happened, like people were still all getting online.

Now everyone's OK. But despite that and despite the other tools that are now available to you to potentially research and find out if someone is telling you the truth, the way in which people fall into these relationships tends to be very much the same as it as it was back then. In a weird way, I think people who are vulnerable to is a stranger on the Internet, befriending them and engaging with them and eventually sort of falling for them are not.

A lot's changed in that in that regard. It's sort of a mixture of of loneliness, insecurity, in some cases isolation and any number of other things that make you excited when a stranger says, hey, what's up, love that pick on the Internet. And then once you start engaging, if you're looking for love or if you're if you're in need of affection or attention, like it can happen and it doesn't it doesn't require any fancy technology or even advanced tactics.

It's just basic communication consistently with a little hint of romance or flirtation. And then it kind of runs away.

I yeah, I think what's so special about the show, what you guys did is really try to help the cat. Sure. Because obviously there's a lot going on there. And a lot of times our younger people, they are dealing with their shit too. Yeah. So it was nice to see those people like turn their lives around in a way or you hope. But do you feel like. Yes, there's a profile of some of the. Does that do you feel like it's sometimes just people do this for sport and they just want to fuck around and it's like they get off on it.

I mean, what do you think of the profile of someone that's got fishing? Right. I mean, it's interesting because there are definitely different categories. I mean, and, you know, a lot of the times I'll get Google Alerts because an article will come out about romance scams and they'll use the word catfish in the article. You know, for us and certainly for me, the intention of the relationship was never to extort money or or gifts or any kind of financial gain.

It was just for the human connection. And I think most of the episodes that we've made on the show are the same. It's about people who need to be seen, need to be heard. They need an outlet for it, for expressing themselves. They don't feel seen in their lives or that they're misunderstood or they can't express their themselves fully in their community. And they find someone on the Internet who finally hears them and sees them and cares about them.

And it's not about just messing around or fucking with someone or trying to get money from them. That does happen, of course. And and we did an episode, I think, last season where there was this guy who was pretending to be hot girls because he knew that he could start and only fans and guys would send him money for pictures. And like, he was like, this is just it's just a great way to pick up cash pandemic.

I'm broke. I don't have a job anyway. So so there are people who do that for sure. But I, I really find that there's an overwhelming population of people, young and old, but certainly at least in the experiment, to show young girls who just want something in their life on a regular basis that makes them feel good and having this friend having this mysterious sort of exciting online lover. That's Joe. For them, that doesn't know their friends and doesn't know their family, and they can open up to and talk too much like a therapist gives them a real sense of fulfillment and makes them feel important and loved.

And, you know, I think that that's why these relationships happen a lot. Do you think that there and I like that you're very empathetic, it sounds like, to why people start these situations. Do you think that there is sort of any forethought into like, how long can I truly make this go on? Or do you think, like, a lot? I mean, I guess it's a wide range.

You tell me it's weird.

I mean, a catfish that are hardest for me to sympathize with are the ones who have been doing it for a long time to multiple people because like I can understand, you're 17 or whatever, and you live in a small town or a big city, but you're struggling with insecurity or you're trying to sort of come out about your sexuality, whatever it might be, any number of things that we all go through at some point in our lives. And you make a fake account because you're curious about talking to people or expressing yourself in some way.

And then one of those relationships gets away from you and turned into this thing and you don't know how to end it. Like, I get that when I don't get are people who have done that and then seen the kind of heartache that that victim endures and then just gone on to the next person and done it again and then gone in and done it again. And we've had people on the show. We've been doing it for years and years and in some cases decades we've talked to and catfish dozens of people.

And to me that I find that a little bit harder to sympathize with because you've now chosen over and over again knowing full well the results of your decision making to continue putting your own personal preferences and desires ahead of all these other people. And it's not an accident. It's not like a big mistake. It's it's very intentional. So there are definitely two sort of different types of people, I think. I still don't think that they're ever necessarily mean spirited.

But there's a there's a there's a level of selfishness and a lack of empathy that goes into their decision making that they should consider. Yeah. People ask, you know, why would someone let this happen?

And it's like we already answered it. You know, you really just wanted so badly. It's like it's you could probably figure it out. Right. But if someone's having a harder time, like, they're like, I don't know. I mean, I feel like a normal, stable person and I just don't know what's going on. I feel like like what are your first go to steps like avoid it. Tips and tricks. I mean, we've watched the show, but maybe not everybody is watching the show.

We want to talk about the Google image search. Is that a thing that you taught me that track? Listen, I love the Google image as a good trick. So a couple of things. First of all, I don't completely condone Internet relationships, even with people that you don't know, who you can't necessarily verify. I think that there is there's a lot of good that can come from that. I think, you know, a lot of people find like minded communities of people who with whom they share important information and ideas.

And that's great. And I even often compare.

You should make an Instagram account for Nerka and friends, your parents, and don't say anything to them. Hi, welcome back to another episode of Girls Girlguiding Happy March Kittrell Smug face about coming up on a year. The pandemic this month is going to it's going to hit different you a little smug face like something smelled bad and I was trying not to cry so I thought about March. I am really excited for March. I'm going to see my parents.

All of our parents are fully vaccinated, fully vaccinated. My aunt and uncle like all the oldies in my life, so I'm driving home. I met next week and I'm going to see my parents and I hug my mom for the first time that.

Yeah, she laughs. She won't let you, you know. No, your mom's like I could still be a transmitter. She's like, yeah, there could be a droplet my nostro. I don't wanna risk it. She did tell me. I was like, so like, can I stay at the house? Can we go out to dinner? And she was like, maybe in the spring of twenty, twenty two.

I was like, I want to be really clear that I'm not going to touch you till twenty twenty, twenty, twenty two.

And she'll be like we've been we've gone this long. Yeah. My dad's. Yeah. My dad's like do you think it's safe if I go to a concert. I'm like wow you're coming out of the gate. What concert. Bill. You know about the underground concert. These seventy three age.

Your dad's like I've heard of these like kind of endure underground orgies. Do you think it'd be safe if I go honestly, if he did that it would make me like you're more listen, are we ready for you?

You'll go with him. No, I wanna go first with your dad. What are we doing right now? We actually have a new partner day. Things to try for supporting girls. Gary is the first of its kind. A luxury hot sauce with an ultra unique blend of real black truffles and spice get 15 percent off site wide plus free shipping with promo code DJ at Trus Dotcom Syzygy and big shout out to Helike Sleep take. There are two minutes sleep quiz and they'll match you to a mattress that'll give you the best sleep of your life.

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Get 20 percent off your first order by visiting pretty litter dotcom and use promo code good ones today I am excited. Talk about today's episode.

So excited, OK, we have a man that has been with me in every hotel I have been in for like a decade, hundreds of hotel rooms, he's the only man. Is he my longest relationship? Maybe, yes. Maybe you want to announce who it is. I'm so excited. Its name Shulman from Gaddafi's. Oh, my gosh. It's happening. I'm like I feel like I'm an energy fan. Like I watch Neves documentary. Do you remember the need to do a documentary before the show?

And I'm the guy that I lost my virginity to. I briefly got back together with for five minutes when I was living in New York. He told me about it. He told you so? My brother told me about it. He was like this catfish thing. You got to watch it. So we watched the documentary as a family and then the show came about. And yeah, I mean, I feel like I would watch Catfish in real time, like I was watching it live on MTV.

And what do you mean in real time?

Like, I watched it whenever it came on, I don't know, 9:00 p.m. on Tuesday. I'm saying, like, I tuned in at that time, like it was the 90s. I know that she was so revolutionary. And back then there weren't that many ways to stop people. It was just like MySpace and Facebook, as if you guys are getting catfish captured. Twenty, twenty one. You got a problem. But we all are. And we're going to I'm sorry.

There's there's more ways to capture it. A little bit ways to find out that you are being cavefish. And this dovetails into like a very crazy thing that happened to me. I recently got catfish. Yeah. So we're going to Iran is going to hold on that and tell Nieve that story. And but we do with slightly twist it last week because there's a dick pic involved that we all know that dick pic was a smoking gun for me, for me personally.

We'll get to it. There were so many other clues.

I was getting catfish.

But the perfect dick pic was what actually knew that he was captured because no one has washboard abs and a dick that looks like that. The perfect dick. I know he like Google like perfect dick. Well, I don't know. And then can you reverse Google image search? I reverse Google image search that deck. We're going to talk more about that with me because so many people want to know, like, how do I do that? I he still has those skills that I don't know what he's like a dad now.

He's a beautiful wife, his two kids. But yeah. We're going to unpack your guys the stories first. Yes. We're going to go a little backwards. We are going to tell some catfish stories you guys submitted.

Then we'll bring Nieve in and then we're going to go even more backwards and maybe do a wreck right now.

What do you think? Oh, my God. You OK? I want to tell you something that happened to me last night and told you praxeology stories, OK? I think we are all over the place. I just it's a tiny little anecdote. But last night I posted this thing on my Instagram story. I had ordered low. You're telling the story now? I'm telling you to, you know, OK, I got to go.

OK, sorry. I thought the backpack Rexburg keep going off. I ordered Levein cookies to my apartment. I don't know the living are the cookies are substantial. It's a heavy cookie.

They're unbelievable. So a friend of mine Emily sent them the day after dhuey passed. Like that was one of the first things that came in hot and she was like go get these, go get this thing from your doorman. And I had heard of them, but I feel like I'd actually held off because I was like, that's why I don't want to do crack, because I'll probably get addicted. So like, I never had them and they hit me at the perfect times.

I'm like crying and do these cookies like I was like Ashley submerged from her trauma like 30 pounds heavier, like they are believable.

They're like two thousand calories. A cookie that seems low. I know I might be five pounds.

It's a daily calorie count but I post-paid for Levein cookies. That's how you know you're single. And I put it on my Instagram story and I was like, this is what I'm doing tonight. Somebody needs to have sex with me soon. It's so strong. I was like, did you really just write somebody needs to have sex with me soon on your Instagram story, go off your truths.

And then I spent the night like I was talking with the response on that. That's why I was going to tell you I was checking my DMS.

I got like such sweet messages from girls all night. Their straps are for you girls. They're not every type of the third strap. It's just like you guys just gassed me up. I don't get laid. I get I got this. I also put in my room sorry about squirting out as you were like, did I miss an episode about it. So I a thousands yesterday about oatmeal raisin cookies and squirting and people talking all the time the first time they gave a blowjob to completion.

So like I have all these really sweet, supportive messages about stuff that I was thinking, oh my God, I love our audience because like so many other people couldn't post a story like that because like half of their audience is male and they'll just get some, like, disgusting onslaught of just like people saying terrible thing. Oh, Cameron, fuck you. And I was thinking, oh, I like it's so sweet. The like we have such a I personally such a large female following.

And so to you it's a girl's got to eat.

But then it hit me like no one wants to sleep with me. OK, listen, it's not that I think so many guys probably started typing that and then they were like, I don't want to end up on her Instagram story next. You know, I'm saying like the like, I think people are just getting more and more scared as they should. OK, thank you for with me. In the divorce the other day, I was like, no, sir.

So I think they're a little scared, like this girl's a big deal, she's out here just posting so much about her life, she already just posted a damn about Squirty. And like, I think you see a damn about squirting that you posted. Then you see this third stripe of, you know, I want to fuck somebody.

And I think a guy's like, I could be next, that you're putting a positive spin on it because he was like, I get high. And then I see the world, like, more clearly for like what it really is.

And like all day I was like, this is so nice. Our audience is so wonderful. And I got high.

And I was like, oh, it's because no one wants to know. It's not about that. OK, thank you for putting a positive spin on that because I was nervous. I love when, like I mean, you and I really are together all the time. We know each other's every move. So like when you post something that like I wasn't aware of and it like makes me laugh. Like I slide in there like I'm a fan, like I'm like, oh my God, it's so funny.

Like you were like, I can't believe you just said that. I was like, really? It's just so bold. I love doing something. It's just like it sounded so like it just I felt it in my soul. It was so it was so real. Like it was like the way you said it, it wasn't like vulgar. It was just like somebody used to have sex with me. So I think that's what I was doing. And I was so absolutely capable of art.

Somebody really does need have sex with you. You know what it's like. I got so much Darek like at the beginning of the year.

Really, GetNet? Yeah, I, I take it away. But listen, I recently could have reached out for that person for some d'arc this week. And you did. Yeah. They give no one even. Yeah. Helena are you ready for my rack. Yeah. OK, I love this movie so much. It's not a heartache. It's from Jillian eighteen. So it's a little newer for me now. Yeah. And it is bookclub. I don't know this well Diane.

Oh I don't know this so. Right, right, right. I found a very recently that I'm a Diane Keaton Stan. And I said something about like, did you see Diane's Instagram? And she was like, Diane who? Keith and Diane Keaton. You find out these sleepyheads Mollie's everything. But I love Diane Keaton.

I think she's such a strong, powerful woman and I love Jane Fonda, Jane Fonda, then it and then Candice Bergen, who was Murphy Brown. Right. And then Mary, whatever. Who was the mom and step brothers? I don't know her name. She's just an everything.

She's married to Ted Danson, I want to say. OK, but anyway, I'm married to somebody for like four years.

So Diane Keaton, Jane Fonda, bad bitch lover. I met her before back in Atlanta and she used to be married to Ted Turner, who started CNN. So, you know, just while we're here, sit on Daddy's promise you every now and then, Candice Bergen and then Mary, whatever. Stepbrothers, mom, and they're these four women, they've had a book club for forty years. And I just it's really it's they're in their 60s, maybe even 70s.

So I just you know, I love that. I love scene like a glimpse into my future. And like I love stories about like women and older women just living their best lives. And they really at once one is married. But like her, sex life is kind of like on the rocks. One is widowed, one is divorced and one has never been married. So they really cover it all. And they just have had this book club for forty years and they start reading it Shades of Grey, and it just kind of like what had happened.

They're all kind of like on the dating scene. One of them gets on Bumble. Diane Keaton meets this guy, like this hot guy. And it's just it's amazing. It's like Sex and the City in their 60s, 70s, 70s, whatever, of like dating and trying to get laid. And it's just I feel like there's even like Carrie, Samantha, Miranda, Charlotte, like, I don't know, just the parallel felt so great to me.

I laughed out loud a lot. I cried at one part, but like, I found myself laughing out loud a lot. It's just like Jane Fonda. She's just so spicy. It's really well written. And I just found myself, like, loving every second of it. I was like that when it was over and it was great. I love to see I want to see more like that. That's what we talked about. Sex in a city like that, hopefully it's kind of the same vibe and they're in their fifties.

So book club like obsessed with it. And now you guys know I am and I Keaton stand. I'll check it out. So we are going to get into the catfish portion. We're going to read your listener submissions. But before we do that, and I will tell my catfish story, I want to tell it to Neeve because it's not. But I want to hear if you've been catfish, because I don't think I know this and nothing like super crazy, like traditional.

I think like a couple times I really got the like guy was way shorter, which I think, you know, like happens in this one time. It happened like I was really bummed. I'd been like talking to him. I thought he was just going to be like big ah. Like he played sports in college and he was just like so small. And I'd like I'd already taken a shot before I went down to meet him. And so I just like went with it.

We ended up like he was because he had pretty good face. But like we hung out the whole night. I got wasted and I brought him home and, like, used out a sex toy for the first night, like, I mean, like never stop calling me. Like, it was just like I didn't care because it's like I'm not I'm not this guy. And then I the small little hands, like, whatever, but. And then.

I, I, I've been had fished this is a term I learned I was I was today years old, so I had fished, which, you know, no no shade to bald men. Rayna prefers them. I've heard a lot of it. Yeah. And I'm not saying I do like a guy with a full head of hair. I don't like really like a guy balding. So I'm kind of like, you know, take it off or don't we don't want like a comb over and in between her, in between her and then when they had fish you so you'll see sometimes on dating profiles they'll crop the top of their head or they'll only be wearing hats on dating apps.

It's really obvious who's hot fishing. And then I like had been hanging out with this guy. He lives and we met when we were walking our dogs and we started going on walks and we were doing outside stuff. And then the first time we went to a restaurant, we walked in, he took off his hat and I was like always fully bald. That guy also virginity catfish to me where that guy was like all over like that was the guy that was the born again virgin.

But like, he had been like rubbing his dick between my butt cheeks, like I rubbed his dick between my cheeks, came on my back, and then two days later told me he was aborning, a virgin. I cannot. So I got confused by him twice. And then that had that once catfish.

And then the other thing I think this was not too long ago, someone sent me a full blown profile of someone using all of my picks. Remember this?

But she said she was twenty seven. So I was like flattered. I would be flattered if I found out that anybody was doing that. Mean guys don't do that to me. Like, honestly, you could pick out better. Look, you know, I don't know. But I was flattered. I was let go. I would be flattered too. If somebody chose me. You could chose anybody. You chose me. And then I will say I feel like I got we talked about it before, like humor or comedy catfish, where someone's like really funny on text or like within the dating app and then they're not in person.

And the best pre-date banter I've had in so long was Michael Jackson's voice. So that was like a bummer because we had such great banter and he showed up. And it wasn't just that he had Michael Jackson voice, it was that he was like, just really not that funny. You I think he was shy, but like he was not who he was tax. So I feel like who was writing those tax?

I feel like I'm having an opposite situation with this guy right now. I'm kind of talking to who like is in comedy and he's funny in comedy and in real life he's not funny. And I'm like, what? Where is the disconnect here? Like everything he says, it's like almost funny. It's like when you're like it's like trying to land a sneeze. You just can't sneeze. I just I don't know. I feel like like what's going on.

Can't quite get there. Yeah, we don't.

I mean we know a lot of comedians, you can like write jokes really well and that are just like incapable of forming sentences in person. Yeah that happens. It happens. But on the show once they're not going to be a name. So you can take your guesses, 2018 summer you you're like, all right, well we're going to get into your guys is submissions before we get into with me. Before that, we're going to thank our partners.

We've some fun new ones to think, OK, well, this one isn't new, but we haven't talked about them in a while. And that is Helix Helix Sleep. I'm going to make this announcement, the podcast. I'm actively finally trying to get my Helix Mattress to New York from my parents house. I'm over my mattress here and I'm going to try to get it here. I'm going to try to get my mattress back to my parents house.

Honey, you're over your mattress like you get over clothing and ashes over her mattress. I just had it like it's not new. You know, I've been here like four years now. I'm just like, I want that. He mattress is brand new. It's just sitting there. My parents. OK, so Helix Sleep, favorite mattress I've ever had. I have the moonlight locks. I'll get into it. But we do have a discount for you guys.

You just go to Helix Sleep Dotcom Sluggy take their two minute sleep boys and they'll match you to a customized mattress that will give you the best sleep your life. OK, so we all know we all sleep differently in different mattresses are going to be better for your bodies. And they have they have everything that you need. Soft medium fur, mattresses, mattresses. Great for cooling you down if you sleep hot. I am a hot sleeper and there's even a helix plus mattresses for plus size folks, so they are size inclusive.

I took the look sleep quiz and I was matched with the moonlight locks because I love a soft mattress and I sleep on my back and on my side every once in a while my stomach. But I'm mostly like a back in a side sleeper and I'm just like so obsessed with it. It comes delivered to your door, comes to box, you open up, you put it down and it kind of like pops up a little bit in. You're ready to sleep on it that night.

I've said it before, but the first one I slept in and I like literally up till noon the next day, I think I went to bed at midnight, woke up at noon. I didn't know where my dog was. My parents right now have been texting me. It was like, what happened? Is she OK? Is she alive? So, yeah, you guys are looking for a new mattress. You take the quiz, you order that mattress that you're matched to and it'll come right to you.

They've won all kinds of awards. Best overall mattress pick of twenty twenty by GQ and Wired magazine. They have a ten year warranty and you can try it out for one hundred nights risk free. And if you don't love it, they will pick it up from you. So that's pretty crazy. You guys have I have messaged me like, do you really love your Hilux mattress? Like, yes, 100 percent I do. And like I said, I'm actively trying to get it here because I just want to have that perfect sleep.

We're obsessed with the pillows. We kind of recommend the pillows. And if they're going to improve your sleep as well and they're part of the deal we have for you guys. So Helix is offering up to two hundred dollars of all mattress orders and two free pillows for our listeners at Helix Sleep. Dotcom, Sluggy, you guys know how obsessed we are with. Pelosse Now you can get them free with your mattress purchase, there really hasn't ever been a better time to get yourself a helix.

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Thailand for legs I love, don't steal it. You'll be on notice that's ours. We knew that it's happened to us before jealously about the pills, but do we on that trademarked. OK. Yeah, OK. We have a brand new partner that I'm very excited to talk about. It is high tide, which I'm going to tell you all about. But I'm really excited that they're working with us because I have been a fan of their food for their hot sauce for years.

I first tasted, I think, three or four years ago and I was putting on stuff for years. So trauma is the first of its kind, luxury hot sauce with an ultra unique blend of a real black truffles and spice. I'm going to tell you what they did in products. They were you. The consistency and the taste. It is it's a big deal. Was named Oprah's Favorite Things gift list two years in a row. It's from southern Cali.

And then the actual products, vegan, it's gluten free. It's non GMO. They offer a bunch of different stuff. Their main product is the black truffle hot sauce. They also do a white trouble hot sauce. You do a hotter sauce that they have a mayonnaise, they have tomato sauce. So when I first heard of Trump hot sauce, I was like, do I need truffles in my house? Yes, I do. My favorite thing about Trump is the consistency.

It's like a pretty thick, like condiment. I don't love, like, a watery hot sauce. Oh, yeah. God, I love it. I like I love the truffle flavor. I put it on eggs. I put it on vegetables, I put it on chicken. I put it in a lentil soup. The other negs. I want a little heat and some truffle in my lentil soup. Unbelievable. I think it'd be great on dumplings.

It just goes so well on anything. And I know that we talk about this a lot, but I cannot stress is that the packaging is unreal. Unreal. It is like I have I'm looking at it right now. It's stunning. It is such a good gift. Like I'm thinking of something like my dad who just is obsessed with hot sauce and would die for this. And it's so funny. There's a pasta sauce too, but we're not really talking about that today.

But you gave me some like a month before we partnered with that and I was like obsessed with it. And then I was like, wait, we get to work with them now. So we like yeah, we loved it before. Yeah, it's great. And they do these gifts. That's if you guys like your mini bottle gives that and they also do a sat with the white truffle and the black trouble hot sauce. It comes in these gorgeous really like heavy-duty gold boxes.

The packaging is fantastic. If you guys are looking for a gift, like I love the idea for like Father's Day or just like anything like the foodie in your life. This is such a cool thing. Even the caps are like, so beautiful.

I know everything's like so nice. It's just like really high quality. That's high quality. And I'm always looking for nuances. So I think this is a really fun thing to check out. You guys can get fifteen percent off site wine plus free shipping with the promo code GGGI at Traffic.com Sluggy that's fifteen percent off plus free shipping on everything. Visit tr f f f as in fantastic. That's two FS dotcom ciggie and you guys will use the promo code GGGI.

And you guys know as always, all of this is on our website. If you forgot the promo codes. OK, I guess you were when you were reading that. I got a text from the guy we talked about last week with the rejected booty call.

OK, I just thought it was about that and I thought he had like a herd and it wasn't he just was sending me something else, which I'm like, I guess extra text.

It was like a funny thing like about it. It's like a croissant, which I'm like, OK, what are you doing? Because you were told to leave me alone.

But no, I just thought that if we ever told them this last week, the guy that I was talking about that like I'm really good friends with the like told me he didn't want to leave together. That's the guy that told him to leave. Drew, it's so true.

He's just out here, cockblock and everybody, including himself, you know, but I saw two texts from him and I was like, oh, God, he heard the episode, which I also wouldn't care. Like we talk like, you know, we don't say anything on the show. I don't care. I what I'm what I'm saying is on the show, I'm prepared for those people to listen. Yeah. I'm always just like e OK, are we right?

I'll be funny if you were like you weren't supposed to hear that. Like a million people heard that, actually. OK, we're going to read some of your listeners submissions for getting catfish. You guys sent such really like creative, funny ones. Apparently there's a million ways to catfish and we thought we would get into that first and then we'll give you guys advice and tips and things like that with me. Yeah. And then these are just kind of all across the board.

I mean, there's there is one that's like pretty standard, close to like what you would have seen on the show, Catfish and the other ones are just kind of stuff that made us laugh. That was like in the same vein. So I'm going to start with this one. I told Rita not to read this one. So she is going to be a nice surprise for her. OK, at the beginning of the pandemic, I was talking to a guy in Henge and we joked about how our quarantine romance would never be able to exist in the real world because of lockdown.

We texted every day and talked on the phone for hours. I love the show Catfish and joked about how we had faced time before when he said his camera was broken. I was pretty confident he was messing with me and was not a catfish. But when I tried to FaceTime him, he ignored the call. I tried again the next day and again he didn't answer. I started to question if he was if he really was catfish me and decided to try calling one last time this bitch started a Facebook three times.

We have friends like that. To my surprise, he picked up and was naked in the shower.

He was just waiting for her to call. I was speechless and so flustered talk about a weird way to meet someone, I told him it seemed like he was busy and she let him go. So I hung up. After laughing uncontrollably, I later found out his screenshot. My reaction, which was a hilarious first photo for our quarantine relationship, I don't even know if they continue to date. I am so Dederer, where are they now? I know she thought she was, she was being catfish and he finally picked up on the fourth face time and he was butt naked in the shower, just waiting for her to call him when he was butt naked he was just like, I gotcha bitch.

I got to know if they're still together. God damn it, how would she know it?

She knows. We need to know. That is so funny. OK, ok, wait, wait, wait. OK, I lied. I went back into the email. She did give us an update there. A second paragraph that I had originally thought, OK, they dated for four months through quarantine but never got to do normal life together because of covid. After ending things with him, a friend told me to listen to your episode, your man who's not your man, and it was a game changer.

It is because of my quarantine relationship that I discovered. Gigi oh my gosh. Your podcast is truly got me through some rough quarantine moments. Oh, my gosh. So her Kathy's story letter to us love. And so I went back and looked at me, too. That's a beautiful woman. After the naked shower phone answer. I did. They met up. They did meet up. It sounds like they did. Yeah. I mean, I don't think they were just like virtual the whole time in four months, like they must have met up at some point.

I feel like catfish thrived during quarantine.

So it's a dream for catfish is can't meet up. It's epidemic. I know. I feel like it really had its moment. Cafe Moment at twenty twenty. OK, ok. This movie laughs so hard. All right. Almost ten years ago, back when chat rooms were a thing before smartphones, I met this cute dude from the UK on Chatroulette. I don't know. I do not. I don't know what that is. Yeah. My friend and I were trying it out when it first was created, before it was overrun by old saggy dicks.

This guy, Camden, was so hot and played in a Beatles cover band. I was nineteen and Superdome Jobs just kept chatting with this complete stranger across the world. Cool. I really connected with him and we exchanged Skype info and phone numbers. We continued to talk until one day he asked me to come to Seattle for the Christmas holiday because he would be in the states staying with his family. I live on the East Coast and was again a child.

I ended up flying across the country at 19 years old, spent ten days floating through Seattle with a hot British guy in his band. I stayed in a nice hotel, ate so much yummy food and had the best sex for ten days straight. I felt like I was on another planet. I was like vibing my life away. Five, My life away came to an end and I was like, so sad. I was in love. This guy was literally to start a new life with him in the UK.

Alua. I didn't even have a degree. I bitch. Where are you going to go since Facebook and MySpace were really the only way to stop people? Then I found his band's Facebook page when I got home and found out they were completely American, fully just lived in Bellingham, which is a suburb outside of Seattle. I met his friends, family and hung out with this dude for over a week. Never once noticed he was faking an accent.

How did he set this up to his friends? Hey, guys, I'm pretending to be British or this girl. I'm flying out here soon, so I need you to just play along with it. I'm talking during sex a fool on British freak morning coffee. Sweet British treat. Oh, my God. Never once did he break character. Pretty sure this dude is fully a con artist. I love message messaging and being like, what the fuck, who are you in response?

I never, ever forget it. And then she put in quotes. Just a bit of fun. Calm down. That was his response. Oh my God. All in all, I got an all expense paid trip to Seattle with amazing sex and adventures and a British version of this hot Pacific Northwest dude at the age of 19. Truly my when his last stay safe out there. Never know when someone's literally not at all who they say they are.

OK, the craziest part is that he did it in front of friends and family.

Well, listen, is he Hilaria Baldwin, OK? Yeah.

Or maybe he had like a tragic car accident. He just told people like a changed man, you know, people fake accents. Maybe he just loves British culture and that's his truth. And he grew up just get up. But like we have heard this story this year already, this is crazy. Also, like I we're going to talk about this today. Like, how do you confront someone when you find this out? Like, I'm I'm just like I'm so bad.

He did it right. She said, who the fuck are you? And he said, calm down. Yeah. Gaslighting extraordinaire. The people that are willing to do this, though, are also willing to go to an extent to make you feel like you're insane. So I'm a hundred percent like gasoline. Gaslighting goes with it. OK, this one is this is a fav this is a catfish on a catfish is a double catfish. OK, she says the short version.

My roommate used me to catfish her boyfriend who was pretending to catfish for his friend. I cannot lesli for that. I know I can't read it seven times. Yes, I was like, we need more to this. So thank God she was like the full story. About two years ago, my roommate moved to South Carolina and started dating a guy she met through Bumble. They talk, decided to meet up and eventually started dating two months into officially dating.

She happened to see a tender notification come up on his phone. She confronted him and he stated he was only still using his account to, quote, unquote, help out his buddy because, quote unquote, his buddy thought his girl was cheating on him. So this guy was like trying to catfish for his friend. He stated he had been doing it for the past few weeks and she had nothing to worry about. She immediately asked him to stop, delete the accounts.

And he agreed a few weeks go by and she sees another notification. Instead of calling him out on it, she calls me and we decide to create a Tinder account with my pictures for her to see if she can catch him. She scrolls for about 20 minutes and finds his profile, same as it was when she matched with a moneylender. She swiped right in immediately matches with my profile. They start to message and he asks to meet up that night.

She agrees. And they set a time about an hour later. About an hour later, she arrives at the restaurant and sees her boyfriend sitting at the bar waiting for his date. Shit hit the fan, to say the least, and they ended up breaking up. Thank goodness I still have the receipts if you need them. This is incredible. I believe that it's true 100 percent. I totally believe this also. I just happens all the time.

Yeah. I think the women I would do I would spend an entire week doing this. I would spend a lifetime doing this. Yeah. I'll do some crazy shit that is. So it took me a while to understand that email.

I mean. Yeah. And then when you really think of the way she said it was so convoluted, but it's just that he was like he lied about cap. He wasn't actually catfish and he lied. He said he was catfish for his friend. Right. But he was just trying to cheat on her. Yeah, it was just on it. He was just tender. OK, stay well ladies out there. OK, OK. This is the last one.

And this one is a true MTV catfish style story. OK, so just drop em. First off, thank you for being you and everything you do to empower women and people in general. You asked for catfish stories and I knew my time had come.

She's sitting here.

She's like, one day they'll do her like music starts playing. It's great to hear my time is guvs. Can you just picture, like, pounding it out on the keys. OK, girl, your time has come OK. So when I was eighteen, my mom and stepdad split up. I was devastated in a very vulnerable place and was actually looking for love in all the wrong places, i.e. Facebook. I had seen this cute guy named Sebastian O'Neal interacting with a few other girls from my hometown and thought maybe I should shoot my shot.

We talked every day for weeks about everything we could think about. We totally clicked. He was so nice and loving and said all the right things my eighteen year old self would want to hear. It became so intense that we decided to be in a Facebook official relationship without even meeting each other. He told me you lived in Toronto, which was about four and a half hours away from the small city I lived in. He said he didn't drive, so he was going to come visit me on the bus.

I was so excited. I waited all day when I got the text, I'm outside. I rushed out my building door to find no one there. I feel in my heart like things like reading this. I like to feel that 18 like I can't even imagine to fight. So she found no one there. I texted Seb, so she calls him Seb this whole time, Sebastian, to find out if he had got the address wrong. No reply.

I called no answer, which I was expecting because he said his phone was broken. I didn't hear back from him for two weeks. This started a year long cycle of behavior like this. I mean, this is exactly like the show. I mean, it's nuts to say I'm outside. I feel like sick about it. And you're like like she's going through some shit. Like, it makes me so sad. There were many people that he had been interacting with claiming they had met him.

One was this girl, Larissa. She and I became friends very quickly and I often talk to her about my concerns of Saib being real or not. So I'm assuming she just like saw people. He was talking to us on Facebook and just like kind of started messaging with them. That's what happens on the show. On the show. Right. So over the time of mine and subs relationship, because they did like reconnect, he sent me many gifts, a ring, a necklace, many plaid shirts, my fashion at the time, a bunch of letters, including one that had one hundred and fifty things that he loved about me.

I started as your first red flag.

OK, yes. OK, I got to go and get four page letter.

OK, it was one hundred fifty days. He liked it. Well ok. It was a four page single spaced type letter but everything that he loved about me and then he broke up with me six weeks later. Oh you can relate. OK, so the idea popped into my mind haha. OK, so you're fifty things you loved about me. I started to test Saib because I knew after a while that this person couldn't be real and I wanted to find out who he was.

I told him for ages I wanted an iPad and then I wanted to go to British Columbia. Laurissa invited me out to British Columbia, which I went and got a free trip. Then Lorissa bought me an iPad for my birthday. This is just so crazy. I asked her so many times if she was Sebastian, to which she always said no. To this day, I don't believe her. It's been over ten years now since this happened. I never really got any legit answers, but I still think about this often.

And I wish that Catfish was a show when this was happening because I would have written in, but it had been too long since and there's no way to contact this Sebastian O'Neil anymore. And Larissa blocked me to anyway, if you want to know anything else, I'm happy and. Or any questions, you guys are my favorite. I mean, that's insane. I'm curious, though. So she met this last person on the Internet as well and then took a trip with her or that girl by her or like how they went to British Columbia on this trip.

She met her and went on the trip. Yeah. So, like I mean, it just had to have been lorissa, right? Oh, my gosh. Now I'm just feeling like I'm not going to be thinking about this all night because so Larissa was Internet acting with Sebastian, which she could have been running two accounts.

Well, the thing with all these catfish people, I mean, again, it is so hard to get away with this stuff today. But yes, earlier when it was just MySpace and Facebook, these people would create like a thousand different identities and we'll get into it. But need give you the summary of how he started the show Catfish. But this is basically how it started, is he met somebody on the Internet and that person had created a ton of other fake identities that he was also interacting with.

That was pretty common back. Yeah.

So, I mean, obviously that was it. I mean, unless Sebastian was real and him and Larissa were in cahoots, but like that seems doesn't seems odd. So it sounds like it was this girl, which a lot of times you saw that on the show where it was like a different sex look, you know what I mean? Like it was like a woman pretending to be a man or whatever. OK, well, we're going to get into it.

Need to we just run through other a couple of partners. We don't to interrupt. Oh, that's a great idea. The king himself. Great idea. OK, guys, I'm going to tell you a pretty letter. And I am I also I have another announcement to announce double helix. I'd like to announce that my parents got another cat. I thought you were in Hawaii. You got a cat? No, my parents got another. They're up to four in the house.

All right. Well, I'm scared to go there now, though. It's so cute. They just run around and it doesn't smell because they're using pretty litter and the cat is named Barney. So, you know, I hope they have four in the house, too, outside. So that's a total of six, six cats. And they are using pretty litter. And I was there not too long ago and I can vouch for how much it has changed, because when I had been there, when I was living with them, like during the pandemic, they weren't using pretty litter.

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Hello, Toshie Dotcom. OK, let's give it to them. OK guys, this is a gas that needs no introduction, but I have to give them one anyway. I am so excited. He is the creator and executive producer of the movie Catfish, which turned into the show Catfish on MTV, now in its eighth season. He's the host of a podcast by the same name and the star and runner up of the most recent season of Dancing with the star of the show Nieve Shalom.

A dancer. Yeah, I know. I honestly, I've always felt like a dancer. But now that I can sort of say that it feels good. It feels good.

Are you dancing around like have you kept with it or.

You know, regretfully. No, I have not since the final but the finale I should say. I've been chiseling away at my wife hope in the hopes that maybe she'll go with me and take some ballroom dance classes because obviously it's fun dancing with a pro and Jenna's amazing. But, you know, I'm not really dancing with her. She's just dancing around me and I'm just trying to not screw up. So I'd love to actually learn how to dance with my wife so that we could dance together.

And I just think that would be super fun. Yeah.

Oh, that's so sexy. Like, who does want to. I want to dance with somebody. I'm going to like get sexy with laughter. Yeah. I don't know.

I feel like I'm too jealous of my partner went on Dancing with the Stars like it's just it's so intense it I have to tell what that definitely comes up. Right. And so I asked and I was like how people usually respond to this. And she said generally it's actually the husbands whose wives go on the show to get the most jealous because like the women, their wives are in the arms of this like, you know, super suave, sexy dancing guy.

And he's like lifting and spinning and doing all the things that every guy wishes they could do with care.

And then when they're like awaiting the results, everybody just like breathing heavy and they look like they're out to fuck. Like I went. I mean, I'm not saying you, but like, they're always so all over each other. I don't know why we're going down this aisle, did I? Yeah. Yeah. But no, I wasn't her partner. Right. I know. Right. That was weird. I'm not you're like I'm not on here to talk about.

That's a separate that's a separate podcast. OK, so let's talk about catfish. Yes. Do you know does any of our history with catfish is that we watch it exclusively in hotels all the time? Oh yeah. Like it's always a great hotel show for sure.

You either you are Detective Stabler and Benson from Law and Order. You are with me in every hotel room.

I love to hear that. And actually my current apartment building. Oh, my God, I'm blanking on her name. One of the girls from Law Order lives with in my building. Oh, gosh. Well, that's a blonde, Stephanie. Bobby Flay, his ex-wife.

No, I think of it Rayna will be there if she can figure out the address. We can see your view kind of. So, Rayna, here's somebody from Catfish and see you in the building. She's there. I can't believe it's happening. I'm going to be in your lobby in an hour. I'm going to go. So we want to hear your origin story. I was working. How about Catfish, how you started it, how people are still doing it, how people can avoid getting catfish.

But we asked our listeners what they want to know about getting catfish, and they submitted some really funny one liners. We just want to you. Do you want to read them? Yeah, sure. OK, someone said, oh, my God, have you guys seen the show? Catfish, there are so many episodes of catfish. How do people not know they are getting catfish bitches out here not asking to face time? Why do hot people use photos of other hot people to appear even hotter?

Am I a catfish? Am I a catfish if I'm way hotter and Instagram than in real life asking for a friend if I thought he had a big dick and then it turns out he did not have a big dick. Did I get catfish? I have been getting mask fish mask fished by men since March, which we've also talked about Hatzis. Oh wow. And then the last one is girl. All I know is that I'm in love with Neve.

Thank you for this.

So I try and remember and answer all those questions.

I no, we want to start with that. But yeah. Why don't most people are good. Most people know your story.

I mean, I remember seeing the the movie, the documentary. And what's interesting, I mean, the the further we get now away from 2010, which is when the documentary came out, if you were people, I think associate me with getting catfish versus me with the show and the end.

They're also just younger people who weren't at the age of watch. They didn't see catfish when it came out. And but they've grown up with the show and they don't know that I got catfish. Oh, wow. Yeah. I mean, even people who come on the show oftentimes don't realize that. I'm the host because I got catfish and made a documentary about it, and now I'm doing it to help people similarly. But anyway, so long story short, 2007, 2006, 2007, I befriended a young girl in Michigan who was an aspiring artist.

She had seen my ballet photography reached out through MySpace to say that she loved my photos and could use them as the subject of her paintings, which of course was so adorable. And she actually looked she made these really cute little watercolor paintings. And that's how we started correspondence, which which then led to a friendship with the mom and their whole family and eventually a flirtation with her older half sister, with whom I began to develop this kind of crush, long distance thing.

And after months and months and months of correspondence and trips planned, but then didn't happen or canceled or something came up one weekend, it was supposed to get whatever eventually decided, OK, enough's enough. I got to go meet this family and this girl who kind of might be my girlfriend if we actually meet. So we went and discovered that the entire family was not at all who they love to be. And it was, in fact, quite the opposite.

And we made this documentary about it and that was Catfish and came out in 2010. And then subsequently I got just inundated with stories and requests for help from people who similarly were in situations where they were talking to them on the Internet and that they had never met. And now all of a sudden it occurred to them that maybe this person wasn't who they said they were. And so that's what we've been doing now is helping people find out the truth since 2010 to 2012, I guess, is what on the show started?

Yeah, I think there's like so I'm such a fan of the show. And as it's evolved and there's obviously been more avenues to figuring out who people are, but probably more avenues to hide your identity, reaching out to people online. So like, has the show really changed? Because when you started the show, it was like people were creating these Facebook identities. And it's like it's easy to sort of figure that out today. It's it's interesting because, yes, there's a prevalence of social media users now.

I mean, everyone's online versus you know, even back in 2007 when I first got catfish, like everyone didn't have Instagram or Instagram happened yet, but people were still all getting online. Now everyone's OK. But despite that and despite the other tools that are now available to you to potentially research and find out if someone is telling you the truth, the way in which people fall into these relationships tends to be very much the same as it as it was back then.

In a weird way, I think people who are vulnerable to is a stranger on the Internet, befriending them and engaging with them and eventually sort of falling for them are not. A lot's changed in that in that regard. It's sort of a mixture of of loneliness, insecurity, in some cases isolation and any number of other things that make you excited when a stranger says, hey, what's up, love that pick on the Internet. And then once you start engaging, if you're looking for love or if you're if you're in need of affection or attention, like it can happen and it doesn't it doesn't require any fancy technology or even advanced tactics.

It's just basic communication consistently with a little hint of romance or flirtation. And then it kind of runs away.

And I think what's so special about the show, what you guys did, is really try to help the cat for sure, because obviously there's a lot going on there. And a lot of times our younger people, they are dealing with their shit, too. Yeah. So it was nice to see those people, like, turn their lives around in a way or you hope. But do you feel like. Yes, there's a profile of some of the.

Does that do you feel like it's sometimes just people do this for sport and they just want to fuck around and it's like they get off on it. I mean, what do you think of the profile of someone that's got fishing? Right. I mean, it's interesting because there are definitely different categories. I mean, and, you know, a lot of the times I'll get Google Alerts because an article will come out about romance scams and they'll use the word catfish in the article.

You know, for us and certainly for me, the intention of the relationship was never to extort money or or gifts or any kind of financial gain. It was just for the human connection. And I think most of the episodes that we made on the show are the same. It's about people who need to be seen, need to be heard. They need an outlet for it, for expressing themselves. They don't feel seen in their lives or that they're misunderstood or they can't express their themselves fully in their community.

And they find someone on the Internet who finally hears them and sees them and cares about them. And it's not about just messing around or fucking with someone or trying to get money from them. That does happen, of course. And and we did an episode, I think, last season where there was this guy who was pretending to be hot girls because he knew that he could start and only fans and guys would send him money for pictures. And like, he was like, this is just just a great way to pick up cash pandemic.

I'm broke. I don't have a job anyway. So so there are people who do that for sure. But I, I really find that there's an overwhelming population of people, young and old, but certainly at least in the experiment, to show young girls who just want something in their life on a regular basis that makes them feel good and having this friend having this mysterious sort of exciting online lover. That's Joe. For them, that doesn't know their friends and doesn't know their family, and they can open up to and talk too much like a therapist gives them a real sense of fulfillment and makes them feel important and loved.

And, you know, I think that that's why these relationships happen a lot. Do you think that there and I like that you're very empathetic, it sounds like, to why people start these situations. Do you think that there is sort of any forethought into like, how long can I truly make this go on? Or do you think, like, a lot? I mean, I guess it's a wide range.

You tell me it's weird.

I mean, a catfish that are hardest for me to sympathize with are the ones who have been doing it for a long time to multiple people because like I can understand, you're 17 or whatever, and you live in a small town or a big city, but you're struggling with insecurity or you're trying to sort of come out about your sexuality, whatever it might be, any number of things that we all go through at some point in our lives. And you make a fake account because you're curious about talking to people or expressing yourself in some way.

And then one of those relationships gets away from you and turned into this thing and you don't know how to end it. Like, I get that when I don't get are people who have done that and then seen the kind of heartache that that victim endures and then just gone on to the next person and done it again and then gone in and done it again. And we've had people on the show. We've been doing it for years and years and in some cases decades we've talked to and catfish dozens of people.

And to me that I find that a little bit harder to sympathize with because you've now chosen over and over again knowing full well the results of your decision making to continue putting your own personal preferences and desires ahead of all these other people. And it's not an accident. It's not like a big mistake. It's it's very intentional. So there are definitely two sort of different types of people, I think. I still don't think that they're ever necessarily mean spirited.

But there's a there's a there's a level of selfishness and a lack of empathy that goes into their decision making that they should consider. Yeah. People ask, you know, why would someone let this happen? And it's like we already answered it. You know, you really just wanted so badly. It's like it's you could probably figure it out. Right. But if someone's having a harder time, like, they're like, I don't know. I mean, I feel like a normal, stable person and I just don't know what's going on.

I feel like like what are your first go to steps like avoid it. Tips and tricks. I mean, we've watched the show, but maybe not everybody has watched the show. We want to talk about the Google image search. Is that a thing that you taught me that track? Listen, I love the Google image as a good trick. So a couple of things. First of all, I don't completely condone Internet relationships, even with people that you don't know, who you can't necessarily verify.

I think that there is there's a lot of good that can come from that. I think, you know, a lot of people find like minded communities of people who with whom they share important information and ideas. And that's great. And I even often compare these relationships even when they seem completely absurd, like we've even had a girl on the show who thought she was dating Chris Brown. I remember that one. Right.

And so even though you could to anyone you ask would tell you that's absolutely insane. Your chances of that really being Chris Brown are let's just call it one in a million. If you could even call it one in a billion. My response is, well, how many people do you know that play the lottery every week? What are the chances of winning the lottery? Less than that, people still do it because it gives them a little bit of a sense of what if.

And it's kind of fun. And even though it's harder than money that they could be saving and turn into as much money as they might like, that's what they enjoy doing with their time and their money.

So I just think it's interesting to think about that, because a lot of people come up to me like, how could these people be so dumb or how could they be so blind or oblivious? But like, I don't think it's always that. I think it's it's almost a choice. It's like, look, I know this is absurd. And I I don't necessarily believe that this is going to work out, but it's better than anything else I've got in my life.

And what's the harm? OK, but that said, if you are talking to someone and you have feelings for them and you're not sure that they're telling you the truth because they've avoided base timing or canceled plans to meet up, a couple small things you can do, even though I know a lot of people say it feels creepy. Obviously, Google them not to say that you'll find anything crazy, but you should find something if you know the person's name or any other town they live in and their job or, you know, there's a good chance that they should have some information about them on the Internet, whether it's on LinkedIn or whatever they say they work at Wendy's, call the Wendy's and just say, hey, is Josh there?

You know, like if if Josh is your boyfriend, it shouldn't be that weird that you call to say hi at work like it's I know it feels a little awkward, but, like, worth it. Yeah, totally. But no one wants to. Do that because they don't want to say, oh, well, that would be so embarrassing for him, or what if he's not there? And I just feel like an idiot, like, well, if he's not there because he doesn't work there, then you should know that show up at the Wendy's.

Who doesn't want Wendy's show up at the Wendy's? I mean, it's more embarrassing to continue to date the person and not dig a little bit.

No, I'd rather make right now, obviously, if they don't live close enough, that you can just drop by. You know, there are websites that you can pay to use and it's not that expensive. Like, I think for 30 bucks you can run someone's phone number. It might even be less than that. Or you might have to subscribe and then you can cancel whatever worth it. Run the phone number and sometimes you get results on one website, you don't on another.

So it does help to do at least on two different websites. Obviously, you can do a reverse image search on you. Just go to images that Google dot com and click and drag the picture into the search bar again, not always 100 percent guaranteed to work, but if the pictures you're looking at are of some guy who's on Tumblr page called like light skin hot guy abs, like it'll it could show up. OK, let me ask you about reverse Google image search.

If it's a private Instagram account and someone's sending you photos that get ahead, I don't think so. OK, I don't think it even finds things on public Instagram pages weirdly. OK, it's fine, but maybe. Well, you know what it will. I know if it will find like the thumbnail. So, like, if if the if the person's Instagram account thumbnail is the picture that gets picked up because like there are all these weird Instagram like copycat sites called like Pictogram or whatever, where they basically just like recycle Instagram comments.

And I don't know anyway, it's a weird, dark, strange, murky place, but like, yeah, image search not always guaranteed to work. So that's why it's good to do all of these things. But like, the best thing you can do is if they have a Facebook page or an Instagram, go through the comments. Are the people leaving comments just saying heart, eyes, fire like eggplants, or are they like writing stuff like, oh my God, so fun.

Like what? Like, can't wait to see you next week or say hi to your cousin or whatever like is it are they personalized. And then if you really do want to again make sure I like message one or two of them and just say, hey, how do you know Josh like he's my boyfriend and see what they say. Yeah. If all of them say like, oh I don't really know him, I just know on the Internet that could be an indication that, like, you're one of the many people who think they know Josh but doesn't also if it's Josh is your boyfriend, you should know his last name and you should know all these things.

Like I'm just I'm I know it's scary out for, you know, for anybody, but especially for women. Like, if I'm ever going to meet somebody I know their last name. I've looked him up on LinkedIn like it's that fear of you're right, they're there. They're wanting to win the lottery. They're wanting to not know the truth. So it's more like you're not asking because if you ask somebody their last name and where they work before they they want to meet you in person and they are weird about telling you like your first red.

Yeah, I know. And asking those questions, I think it's not weird. I think you're saying people get tripped up because it's embarrassing to do these things. But like, at the end of the day, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying to somebody, listen, you're a stranger. I met on the Internet. Of course, I did some due diligence. Well, right. But but what happens is the relationship starts just as like a fun friendship correspondence.

Right. And and then it becomes this like trusted confidante friendship. And at that point. Right. For you to say, oh, I know we've opened up to each other and talked about personal stuff, but like, I don't really know if I can trust you or if I believe that you are who you say you are, then it almost feels like a betrayal. And when people and when people do say it, the catfish often says, how could you say Gastly?

How could you how could the catfish also often uses the tactic of saying, I can't believe you don't trust me, and that you would question me about like this thing, I'm so hurt. And then the victim or the hopeful as we call them, feels bad because then like, oh, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I of course I believe you. I didn't. And then you backpedal and you're like, no, no, no, I, I do believe you.

And then you stop asking because you feel you don't want to upset them again, like it's a it's this thing that we've seen happen a lot know a lot of people said as, how do I confront someone?

Can I ever forgive them if I really actually do have feelings for a person? Can I move past this? What are your thoughts on that?

I mean, look, it's tough because I think the success of these online long distance digital relationships has a lot to do with the mystery of them and the compartmentalization of it. This idea that you can have this person who exists essentially just in your head and heart. Right. You don't have to interact with them in the real world. There's no there's no expectations of you. You don't have to share your bed or your bathroom with them. But they you wake up to a text every morning and you get a text every night.

Again, it's this private relationship that you're having that most people don't even really tell their friends or. Only about and so it's tough because, you know, you don't want to lose that, but if you're if you're feeling like you have sort of hit a wall and you can't get past or through it because this person's on avoiding certain things or won't face time or keeps canceling or standing you up and you realize you need to do something, obviously, the first thing you should do is write in to catfish, get an email to Catfish Nieve at Gmail dot com, and maybe you'll win the lottery and get on the show.

Right. We need stories literally.

We are like we are looking for stories. Right. Maybe I should say my story.

And I tell you one crazy story about we want, you know, but maybe you should. But but I'll tell you everything.

But I think you have to you have to force yourself to have you have to you have to have enough respect for yourself. To do what's right for you, and that doesn't mean you have to be mean about, but I think you have as hard as it is, you have to say, look, Josh, I really love talking to you and I've been this has been so great, but I can't keep talking to you if you can't do this thing.

And that's just because that's what I need. And we're in a relationship and you really love me, then you would understand that. So think about that. Mull it over. But like, if you don't if I don't hear back from you or if you can't face time this week or whatever the deadline time frame is that I need to stop talking to you. Right. And that's that's hard because you don't want to give up Josh. But like, if Josh is legit and cared about you, like, that should be easy for him.

Also, Josh works at Wendy's, like you can do better. I mean, I think also like I have a girlfriend and this is not your traditional catfish. You were saying the word gets thrown around and misused. But she was just she was dating a guy. She was younger. She was in her early twenties. He was married with kids and would always just you know, his house was getting renovated. So they had to meet in a hotel and they would go on trips and stuff.

And she she feels like she would have never found this for this today, as in in her late thirties. But she just every time she asked even the smallest bit of, hey, I just think it's weird, like why I, I think she one day said I was like, if you don't take me to your house, I can't date you anymore. And he flipped out and was like, how dare you not trust me, my girlfriend.

And she actually finally sat next to a P.I. on a plane they were drinking. She started talking about her relationship and how she had doubts. And he was like, I can find this out for you in five minutes. And they landed and he ran a check. He was married with kids. He center his address and her friend drove by the house and saw him come out of his house with his wife and his kids. And so, I mean, and then she confronted him in the immediate confrontation.

She was like, meet me at this place. And he still tried to say, it's not true. And she was like, well, that's right. But it's like I just say, that's what the gaslighting of. Like, you're crazy. How dare you not trust me? Well, and not just gaslighting, but also like people like you don't have to go on the Internet to get to get lied to. It's it's not it's not a it's not an Internet phenomenon that people are lying, I think.

You mean in bars all the time. The lie about their income, what they're living, do they have a wife, do they have kids? And those things that are a little easier to check. There's so many public records, wedding registries, kids registries. We did an episode on stopping a few weeks ago.

So we're not going to be surprised if you look look, the reality is, if you want to find out, there's always a way. But it's but a lot of people subconsciously or consciously prefer not to find out because then their perfect boyfriend goes away or their perfect girlfriend or whatever it is. So like, you know, you just have to consider how much are you allowing this and how much are you in many cases participating in this make believe?

When I was a kid and my parents finally told me my imaginary friend wasn't real, it was devastating. And they had like they had like really gas catfish. So they had, like, bought me gifts from her. And then I they were like, OK, we got to Ashley. Nerka isn't real. Nerka. I was just hearing about it. And then I finally was like, I feel like I always sort of knew like it was the whole thing that my parents it was like a kid, you see.

You know what you know, what you should do now is you should you should make an Instagram account for Nerka and friends, your parents, and don't say anything to them.

Just have them be like, wait a second, is this is North Korea or I'm going to do some real fucked up shit and be like Nerka found out she's my dad's kid and she went on twenty three and me or whatever, and that's her dad.

Like I'm going to get that email from me. That's just like you have a new DNA match anyway. That'll be great.

So this is what I'm doing for the rest of the year. This is going to be your parents Christmas gift. Neeve, have you seen anything crazy, whether it's changed since twenty twelve or like are you ever shocked anymore? Like do you have anything in recent memory that was like this person went above and beyond the cat fishing. Yeah. I think the thing that shocked me more recently was we didn't think this was a guy and this was just last season, the season that just aired.

We had an episode where this guy who is now in a very serious relationship and has a daughter with this girl. But years ago when he was a teenager, he had fallen in love for the first time with this girl on the Internet and the correspondent for about two years, I think. And then she just she broke his heart and started dating some other guy. And he had just been crushed in every way and never met her. And then periodically, I think he would try to find it like she would pop up with whatever she she kind of lingered in his life for years, even up until the present.

And it was actually his girlfriend who wrote in, which is like, look, I need my boyfriend to stop wondering if that was ever good, that girl was ever real. And because, like, he can't get rid of it, like she's in his head, even though he's in love with me and we're very happy, like it's this thing and it's bothering me is his girlfriend and I need it done. So we did what we do and we discovered that the girl in the.

It was actually real and her name was her name, but that it had been her mom who had been using photos of her daughter, who had even gone into her daughter's phone when she was sleeping and taking like sexy selfies off of it that she had taken to send to her boyfriend at the time and had talked to this like 16, 17 year old kid for years.

Oh, yeah, it was really weird. And, you know, the woman's obviously doesn't do it anymore.

And she's been to a therapist since, but like, you know, borderline, if not just blatantly criminal for 30, late 30, 40 year old, some woman to be talking to someone underage and sending pictures of their daughter, which is, my God, the privacy invasion, too, on top of it.

And the weirdest thing was that the daughter had found out, confronted her mom about it. It had this weird falling out, but they've since repaired themselves. And she was actually the one who helped us figure it out like the daughter. Right. Because we found the daughter on the Internet saying, oh, she looks like she's married. We reached out. She's like, OK, oh, my God, I'll help you find out the truth. And then she brought her mom and we're like, what?

Anyway, it was while and her mom done this to a bunch of different guys. Or this one. Oh, wow. Oh, my gosh. With the daughter's pants like. Yeah. Oh, my God. You can imagine how surprised grossed out and furious the daughter was. Yeah. Super. Super. That is that was pretty shocking. Wow. I feel like that takes the cake that you do. You just feel do you feel like people are changing their tactics and getting like slicker with the catfish thing or.

I mean, just kind of it's all kind of the same. Not really. I mean, there are so many ways now that's OK. There are definitely ways now that you can be more convincing, like you can use the the the filter now to, like, literally put a girl's face on your face. Wow.

All right. Just technology. Yeah.

They're definitely like you could be more sophisticated. But again, the weird thing about at least the victims of catfish who sort of fall into the category that we feature on the show, the less they get, the more they want. If you're just a little profile picture and an occasional text here and there and like the less someone gets, like, the more curious and excited they are to get more. And they'll wait around and they'll engage and they'll it's crazy.

But that's how it works.

I mean, I guess it's like a good if I if you wanted to be a catfish, that's a tactic used because today I think there's more and more avenues to find out who somebody is. Like you said, if you can't find somebody on the Internet, they probably aren't real at this point. Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to make a sweeping statement like that, obviously, but I do think that it's so interesting.

Like, you can be corresponding with someone for months or years and never even talk on the phone. And when I ask people what happens, you asked to face time. A lot of the time I'll get the people will say that they they haven't even asked FaceTime time because they don't want to FaceTime because the timing is awkward. Then you have to, like, look at the person and deal with those awkward silences and young people. I mean, everybody is.

But I've heard from a lot of young people that they're insecure and they don't love the way they look. And so it's just they're easier and safer to just text.

Yeah. Than the profile of someone that is insecure. Then of course, they don't want a face time like they're not. Exactly. Exactly. We got someone asked me, people asked us, like, how do you forgive this person? How do you forgive yourself? I mean, I think people really beat themselves up. Do you guys see that a lot?

I mean, yeah, I think there's always, you know, similar to the sort of seven stages of grief. Is that the. That's the thing, right? I do five five stages. Yeah. I think there are there's a sort of similar stages of getting catfish. And, you know, the first one's usually surprise and then embarrassment and then some sort of a feeling of of how could I be so naive and kind of questioning yourself and others, of course, as well, that depending on who and what situation is.

But I try really hard in the sort of aftermath of helping these people deal with finding out the truth, just to remind them that a like, it's never a bad thing if someone lies to you, like you haven't done anything wrong, you got lied to. And being a trusting, open person is also a good thing. And sure. Yeah, moving forward, you'll you'll hopefully employ some tools and tactics and maybe have a little bit more of a defense mechanism up.

But but don't change that. You are an open hearted person because that's that's a great trait to have. And then I also do my best to sort of remind them that this experience, despite it feeling shitty right now, is going to be a sort of building block for your personality. And it can it can and will potentially become something that makes you more interesting and gives you something to talk about in some. Offer as a person in conversation and will inform your decision making for the better for the rest of your life.

So even though it stings right now, it certainly in my case and I think in many other cases, if you can look at it as a learning experience as as something that actually is building your character. I think it can be a really positive experience. I love that. And that's great. I love that because the girl that sent the story into the intro, her email was like, I listen to girls for three years. And when you ask for catfish stories, I knew my time had come like she's been sitting on this like it was part of her story, like she is it, you know, she got to share it on this podcast.

She loves it. We read it. And it's just kind of you're right. I mean, I think about every time I go on a bad day, it's like, well, this is just a story we use on this podcast. Yes. I think it can be something you really beat yourself up for. I recently was personally catfish for like 12 hours, and I was even like so I mean, Ashley knows like I spent days beating myself up for, like, how could I have even let this go on for 12 hours?

And you tell a story.

Yeah, I got I got catfish again after I got catfish. No, I did not. Not a romantic one, but like like what we did in episode, we did a whole special about it.

I mean, tell us your we saw it. We don't we totally saw it. We probably something like I'm just standing on somewhere. I will tell you a story. But how did you meet your wife?

You guys meet online? I technically yeah. I found her Instagram account and started following her and then months later discovered she had been following me. And so I just found her.

And that's funny. It's like it's never a meme for me. It was like, don't meet people online.

Yeah, totally.

All right. I'm finding this text to send her to to retail. Yes. It will end with this rain is going to tell you her story. And it's I can't wait to hear what you think. I have my own thoughts.

But anyway, so while you're looking at the only thing I want to say about what we were just talking about is like, even even though you are getting no one wants to get catfish, right. If you consider it a relationship. Right. Every relationship, with the exception of a handful of people who fall in love in high school and are married and die in their 80s together, every relationship has a beginning and an end, and some are longer than others.

Some are better than others, some and nicely. Some don't it nicely. But you need all those failed relationships in order to hopefully finally get into the one that you're meant to be in. So I really think that, like even getting catfish, even even as weird and awkward and uncomfortable and and crappy as I can be, is still a super important experience that you need in order to get you that much closer to being ready and the person you need to be to, like, find the right person.

Love that. And that's your story. It worked for you. Yeah, exactly. So thank you for it. I love that. That's a great way to maybe you should let yourself get catfish start an empire. Yeah. How many times have you done of catfish. Did you have it. Um, do you know the number we were just talking about.

I think we're at like one seventy now. One hundred and seventy. I think that somewhere in that area you could show every time.

It's just like I turn on the TV in a hotel, it's like ridiculousness and catfish. I'm like, no, actually just yeah. I actually just looked at like a shark. Someone made a like a batard. Yeah. It's all.

Yeah. You saw that. It's all ridiculousness. And I want to know what's going on with that. But that's a story for a different time. OK, Rita, there's so many twists and turns. I'm like nervous, but I want to like, shorten this up for you. So I woke up one morning to a text in my phone. There was four text messages. I had a free day.

So no, I no, no, I don't know the phone number. And it says, sorry for the late text. Just want to say hi. Happy Monday. I'm finally back in us. Safe, healthy for now. When we do this, we wish I could cuddle you instead. I'll call tomorrow once I get settled. Hopefully in a wonderful weekend she sends a photo of himself with a dog. It's a cute guy that's like my age with a dog.

He's like, I can't believe you fell for this.

I know the next exercise. Oh shit.

I'm sorry. It's certainly possible. I've reached an incorrect number by mistake.

Brief airport encounter only possible brief airport encounter overseas. Perhaps I was given the wrong number. This is he tells me his name.

Africa says when you still haven't you still haven't responded to it. Just it's four text messages. All you woke up to that I wake up to like four back to back text this guy like a pretty intimate text message, a photo of a cute guy. And then he's like, oh, shit, I think it's Zahner. So I'm like, all right, I, I have a day. This is what I'm doing today. I was like, so excited about I was like, I'm checking into this and checking it out.

So I respond. And I just said because it's clear that this guy had like a one night stand with somebody at an airport. And I was like, I got another story.

So I was like, that's a pretty intimate text messages sent to a stranger. But yes, you have reached the wrong person. So we start chit chatting throughout the day. This guy is like he he seemed like super normal and he was funny. He was like, if I at least reached a female. Are you. Age appropriate, what's your Social Security number, right? What's your routing number, right.

Whatever, I can't I couldn't resist with the dog, so I was like, no, no, I'm a girl.

I live in New York City. I'm age appropriate. We like to go back and forth. Yeah. He said, are you single? Is that it? Can I flirt with you? Is that fine?

I guess you're in a dream. This is literally like the best.

He sends me a photo of himself holding this baby. It's the cutest guy. I'm like, holy shit. Actually, I'm in love. This guy is so funny. I'm telling him the most fucked up jokes we just joke about. And he's like, Can I see a photo of you? So I, I'm like, what do I do? So I send in my Instagram account and I was like, enjoy stalking my whatever. I'm like a public person.

I don't care. So we talk throughout the day. We like trade all these different. I don't have any information about myself. Like I'm not going to tell this person anything personal you couldn't find on the Internet. Five seconds, but I enjoyed talking to him. I'm like, I guess there's some possibility that this is a real person. He tells you what he does for a living where he lives. He's peppering in all this information throughout the day.

Throughout the day. I'm trying to figure out who this is. So he said, no, I'm in search. Well, he sends me a couple of photos. I wrote Virgin. I reverse image, search the photos, no hits the day, tells me where he went to school. Where he grew up, he tells me, is a couple of sisters. He tells me what he does for a living. It's a government job that he would not have a public profile if he has actually has is so very like classic.

I am not for the government but that. But then he threw in. I'm also a personal trainer on the side. No government employee has time to work at the L.A. fitness training people.

Well, you know, the other side is working from home, right? So at this point, I'm like so deep in this.

I'm like I like talking to this guy now. He's like sexy with me a little bit. I'm like, oh, my gosh. So I'm looking up all this information. I'm looking up like where I went to college. I'm looking at the alumni association. I'm reverse searching the phone number. I find it I look up the what he says he does for a living. There should be some hit with that. I know how old he was. You know, it's cities that he claimed to be in.

This goes on throughout the day. He sends me a he's a sexy pick. It is a I can't even it is like you Googled Hot Body Giant Dick. And that's what came up. It is washboard abs and it's cock like it's just like not I saw that picture. That was the smoking gun for me. She showed me the dick.

I was like, that's not a that's a fake Persad.

I like this crazy story. You have a new boyfriend is so great. I had two girlfriends on the case. Everyone's looking is out there looking up the alumni association. We can't find out who he is. And so how do I shut this down? I know you also she had a friend call the number, so I had a friend call the number she did just like a Google phone number. She calls the number. It's not a real phone number.

It was a Google Voice app, right? Yes, I know a couple of things. We the pictures, when we really started to zoom in, it looked like it could be a different guy, like eyebrows, a little bit different. Like it just the pictures look different. Hairline was in the other smoking gun. Was that all of it, first of all. But like that, he sent the first text and then we don't like that. Don't tell me.

OK, so there was a lot of strong guys throughout the day and I was like, there's no footprint of the person on the Internet. We can't find him anywhere. Phone, no, stay. And I said to him, I like things like asking RAPEX like I can't send you anything. So I'm looking at my phone and it occurs to me I never check the time stamps on the text messages. So I scroll over for exactly one at the text.

The first four in the morning he sent me that like good morning with the dog photo and four minutes later he said, I've reached the wrong person and I never checked the times up, you know what I mean? Nobody would have thought that they reached the wrong person informed like you don't get a no response and you're like, wait, is this the wrong number? That's somewhere. That's not a thing that you know someone. Yeah, sure.

I thought it was to me. That's OK. No, I agree with you. I agree with you. I mean, four minutes obviously can feel like a very long time. If you think you're texting someone that you just, like, left, you're in bed like but also. Yes, I agree also. How would you know, he text the wrong number? That's what I'm saying. But that's what I'm saying. Like he said, the story was that he was on a layover and some girl in an airport, obviously the kind of guy you want to be with, honestly.

And that's what I'm saying. I like honest. I didn't hate it also like we do, you know, we talk about dating and sex for a living. Like Raina was like, let me hear the story. But like then she just engaged. I have to know what happened. And I also did not tell this person anything about myself. So he's the one who knows me, whatever.

I mean, she was fun. I asked him for his social media. I was my Instagram, give me a rest. And he was like, because of what I do for a living, I give it here, you I don't pop. And I said I was trying to find him on the Internet. He was like, I don't have any public profile. So then so he just he kept following up and following up and it got like it escalated to him like, like really sexting and me just like really not responding.

So the next day he's like, I say something wrong. So I just. And with a text and it said like, hey, I can't verify who you are. It's been nice chatting with you, but you can't keep interacting with somebody. I hope you understand. And he wrote me back immediately and pretty aggressive. And he was like, I don't understand. I can't believe you're ghosting out of this. I can't believe that you did this.

You won't even give me a reason. So I blocked the phone number and that's that's the end of the interaction. But I did I really, like, beat myself up for days. Like, how can I let this go on?

Well, yeah. I mean, the weird thing is like, did he know who you were?

So that's that's what we were wondering. Raina was like worried, like this is a stalker. But then I just thought, like, we see so much weird behavior from everybody, but a lot for men that just do weird stuff to get themselves off. Like it felt like maybe he just that's what he was going to do that day. And he picked a number and it just so happened to be like a person in the fallout. Yeah, yeah.

I think that I was really scared, like to a stalker. It really frighten me. I also told myself that there is a there's a big range between somebody sort of like catfish you on your phone and showing up at your home and harming you. You never know. I mean, I don't want to get statements about safety. You know, you should always be safe. I just thought this was like a silly fun thing I was going to do throughout the day.

I blocked the phone. No, I do think by how fast you just want to weigh probably this was just like just accidentally hit on a person that happened to have some notoriety or something.

Well, and or or he's fishing for sexy photos and then he turns around and uses them to blackmail you. That's I thought that too, like and I thought even we Rayna doesn't think this, but me and another girlfriend of ours thought it could be a girl, like it could easily be a girl that hates us that once thought she could maybe get nudes are like a sexy video from you and put it on the Internet, you know. Yeah. I mean, I would never be stupid enough to send photos, but we never figured out who this was.

We used every means that we could to try to figure it out.

Are we sure it wasn't Snork?

God damn it, I call that the day I opened up to, you know, I thought I knew everything about her and she's out here to tell you secrets about her life. But that was my captain's story. I don't know if there would have been like you tell me, is there any other way I could figure out who this person was?

I feel like I know you. Yeah, I know you did the right thing. Obviously, it's easy, easier for people like me or you. I don't know what you're following online is, but like you can always post a picture, tweet, tweet a picture and know who is this now? Because it's amazing how if the guy's a model and you know, he's online somewhere and you even if you have a thousand followers, like, you'd be amazed how quickly people can a hundred of six degrees of separation.

It's like, oh yeah, I think I do like it. It's amazing. So there's always that option. I mean, it's a little weird to post a picture on your social media, be like, hey, does anyone know who this is? Super unsafe?

I might consult somebody first. I don't know. Like what?

I mean, it would it wouldn't get you any closer to finding out who you were talking to, but it might help you discover that you're not talking to the guy.

The pictures, the pictures were really interesting, like she said, because they they do not appear to be the same man, like variations on different. But you're not looking at his face.

He sent a bunch of there was like, yeah, before that. But then I was just like that. That body is not with that goes with that face. But I also think just in general, at least in my years of dating and stalking, if you have their first last name and they're college, it's something pulls up like even if it is like Matt Johnson and he went to UCLA, like you'll at least find that. You'll find that there's 20 of them.

But like she had his alleged first and last name and actually where he went to school and it's a smaller school that he said. So anyway, I mean, I didn't think this was real, but we just wanted to share with you. And it's a good example of, like I said, one of the types of I would call that probably probably more like a romance scam, kind of looking for the right guy, kind of like scared me a little bit.

But I understand what you're saying is that like some people's reaction is like gaslight. You be like, how could you do this?

You know, I said to my dick, well, and then become manipulative and make you feel bad. And then you keep you stay and you keep talking to them.

And then again, he picked the wrong girl on that one. Right. Well, I'm glad to hear that you avoided giving him any information or allowing it to go on any longer than it did. Thank you.

I just thought of you funny story. Until actually I was just like, this is what I'm doing today. And then we were like, wait, let's touch base leave, because we've been trying to get you on the show for a while. But you were like having kids and whatever. You were busy. There was a pandemic, the pandemic. Yeah, but thank you so much for this. Do you. Hey, this is great. Do you think you have any parting words you didn't get out?

Well, no. Yeah.

I mean, just because we're on a podcast. So we have now converted and we're we're releasing new episodes every week, catfish to a podcast. OK, and so if you're new to Catfish, if you haven't seen the show or if you've seen it a few times or if you just love listening to podcasts, the Catfish podcast is really interesting. And I actually think in a weird way, it's not better than the show. But because these relationships exist in this sort of ether of mystery, listening to the show allows your imagination to sort of paint the picture much in the way that being in the relationship does because you have less information and you know, so it's kind of fun because you can imagine what these people look like and where we are and and kind of get a little bit closer to the feeling and the texture of the relationship it as it happened, than you can when you actually just see it.

So anyway, if you're if you're looking for some more catfish in your ears, check out the Catfish podcast, OK?

Anything else you want to plug in? Everybody knows what you do, but just on Instagram followers, you want only fans.

You can follow me on Instagram or Facebook or tick tock. They're all the same. Just Neve Shulman. I mean, the only other thing I would say is just to promote people listening to each other more. I think one of the main reasons people get catfish is because they don't feel like they have anyone who cares enough to listen to them and ask them how they're feeling. So I think we always do a better job of checking in with each other and asking someone how they feel, not because we feel like we should and not because we all actually want to tell them how we feel, but just to let them tell us how they're feeling, we'd all be better off.

Thank you.

Well, thank you so much for joining us. And everybody go listen to the Catfish podcast. Watch your show, all the things. This is so great. Thank you so much. Yeah. All right, guys.

Well, hope you enjoyed. How do you feel right now? I feel great. This is an amazing come true. I love that. Yeah. And you guys know where to find us girls. Got to eat podcast. Dotcom Girl's got a podcast on Instagram. She has Raina Greenberg on Instagram girls in her score. I got you on Twitter and YouTube. Dotcom slash girl's got to eat and we will see you next week. Thanks, guys. Have a good week.

I.