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It was OK to be in this mould of the sexy person that they want, and I just never stopped to be like, hey, how is this affecting me?


Hi, welcome back to another episode of Girl's Got Gotta Eat. Welcome back. I saw that you just opened the weather app. Oh, my God.


There's so many roads that I miss the weather updates. And I thought, you get ready to spit some weather out. Somebody wrote, Yeah, but I saw it. It's in our joint email. That's why I opened the weather app. Why do you what do you do on Glassdoor right now? Your very day is when you asked me if I saw an email like I don't spend 24 hours a day and ah, you see this email? Yeah, actually I spend twenty 24 hours a day reading.


Ah, you know, I don't have you to do anything. Besides I'll be in our email on my laptop and it comes in like in real time and I do see it before you. It's, it's once a quarter. But listen after 1:00 o'clock someone did.


Yeah. If you had three a.m. it's coming straight to me. I was. I will wake up and see that you responded at 2:00 a.m. to somebody with someone. Yes. That they missed the weather. So I just can't believe you called me out like that. I don't know, guys. March is unpredictable. PopTech. So that's so funny because Francis, his birthday just passed, but he was like, I want to have a birthday party and I want to do either April 3rd or April 10th.


And I said, you can't do the tenth. Right. And I have a wedding. And I said, we'll be there the third week. It's so it's the third. Right? And he was like, Oh, man. I was like kind of wanted to do it later. So just a better chance that the weather will be warmer. And I was like listening. With apre weather, there's no guarantees. The only guarantee is that rain.


And I will not be there on the 27th. You RSVP for us as a couple people.


I just know that we are top tier guests.


Every time you say top to top to your friends, it's just funny when someone's like, hey, you know, I'm thinking of doing this thing on this day or this day. And if I can't make one of those dates and I really want to come, I'm going to like, really push like some people be like, if I can't make it, it's no big deal. I'm like, no, no, no, we're going to go with this date.


I know it's your birthday push. You push holidays and birthdays and you're like, I read the Weather Almanac for the last 100 years. I feel like I like some shade. I'm like, I mean, you could do at the tenth, but it won't be fun if you want a second tier party with second tier. Yes. OK, so let's thank our partners.


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Yes, and thanks to Dipset for supporting Girl's Got to Eat, Dipsy is an audio app full of short sexy stories and guided sessions designed to turn you on and help you get in touch with yourself. Get a 30 day free trial when you go to deep sea stories. Dotcom soggy and thanks to Fatfat Fund for supporting girls got to eat. Twenty great female founded brands are in the spring box this season. Use Kajiji for ten dollars off your first box at WWE dot fad.


That fun dotcom. OK, so I just realized that last week I also brought up Frances because it was like his birthday and my mom, the birthday is like one day apart. Twenty six and twenty seventh. That being said, it just jogged my memory that the twenty seventh. So just days ago Cindy Hasseltine turned sixty nine. Get out of here.


Yeah. Sixty nine. Texada birthday dammit Brina.


It won't be Sleeveface then. It's still we're recording what they said.


You are so lucky that your parents think that's funny because my mom and my stepdad are sixty nine and it's been a whole year may not be able to make these jokes. So I texted my brother Mike. Do you think that they're going to think this is funny. And he was like, right, get out of here. I know. Well I'm so lucky. Yeah, my parents are like one year apart, so my mom turned sixty nine or she just turned sixty nine and my dad will be seventy in July.


So that's a big one. Your dad didn't let me make a sixty nine joke. That's true. Thank God for your dad. Yeah. But it was also like it was a pandemic.


You know Catherine he did have a big party but at least sixty it was I showed you the cake like we did. We went all out, we had it in Dewey and it was like that was like you wore a sundress. Yeah, a bubble dress. I still remember a bubble. We used to wear bubble clothes, actually. I used to wear bubble clothing with polka dots from what seal? That was all I wore for years. So insane.


Like all you want to do is like be slimming and flattering. And we would wear stuff that was a bubble, a bubble. And by the way, I have double titties, so it's even bigger on somebody that just has a tent hanging out of their body. It's like take this lumpy bag that's shapeless and make it worse. It's so bad. I can't even I don't want to get fucked in. Ten years ago, I was just out here sleeping with me.


I mean, you saw my eyebrows looked like back that it is wild. Same girl. OK, so before we get into it, just a couple of housekeeping things. We have some shows coming up live. You know, I don't make the noise like, wow, that really fell flat. Yeah. Just raining out here, I'll tell you where it's not raining Florida, and we have it shows there in May, we're so excited. You guys know, this is like we have not been on the roads since last year.


So it's like a we coming out coming back out on our own, like our sweet 16. I know. So we have Miami on Sunday, May 2nd, two shows, Tampa, May 5th, two shows, and Orlando, Thursday, May six. Again, two shows every single night. There's an early show, a late show. They're both going to be popping. The tickets are going fast. I think there is one show, Miami, that may have sold out.


And so we want you guys to, like, get on these and scoop them up while they're still available. We can't wait so much fun stuff planned. We're going to take shots out of each other's titties. Well, you can take a shot at. I tell you, I can't take a shot of yours. As always. You guys can get tickets and everything at girls. Got your podcast, Dotcom. If you're a newer listener with everything on there for you all the past episodes, if you want to search through great merch, we're going to do some new merch for the spring time.


And of course, all the live shows and everything is there. You can stay up to date with everything from our newsletter. You'll sign up on the website. Girl's got a podcast, Dotcom. All right. OK, so you got something to tell me? Yes. Oh, my gosh, I'm so excited to tell you this. And I promised our audience that I was only dating divorced guys, which I have delivered on.


And we got a lot of messages from girls we like. Yeah, girl. Like go fuck doors, guys. They're amazing. I know. And people did validate me on that, like being the first person post divorce and it not working out like this girl kind of sent me this sob story on how it didn't work out for her. And I was like, I'm so sorry, but thanks for validating me as well.


Yeah, well, actually what's important is that you were right. I did not write that back. Can you imagine she writes this thing.


I'm like, what's important here is what is right now? But she was like, it's so true. Like, I wish I was she was like, I wish I would have known because she was like I felt that kind of you know, you have a feeling of like, is this person just kind of going so hard on me because they're rebounding. But I, like one of our girlfriends, is dating somebody who's recently divorced and he is just living out all of his sexual fantasies on her that he didn't get to do in the divorce.


He the other day, I got to tell I told her I was with his whole podcast, but I did OK. He's like living out all these, like, crazy sexual fantasies. She's so sweet. Like, I don't think of her as like a real sexual deviant. And she told me the other day that this guy wrapped his phone in cellophane and then videotaped himself jerking off so he could come at the phone. That is wild. That's what we're dealing with, with divorced guys.


And I said to you, I said I job. I would think that there is no more sexually frustrated person, male or female, than someone that's in a sexless marriage. If you're not cheating, if you're staying faithful and you're with a partner that you're married to and you're not having sex, like there's nothing that feels probably more lonely, sexually frustrated, isolating than that. So when you get out of that situation, you're coming at your friends, you're coming on your phone.


Yesterday morning, she was like, do you want to see, like, what we were sexting about? She just sending me pages of sex. I could never meet this guy. I'm going to have like I'm going to be you know, I have one sip of alcohol. I'm going to be like, don't say it, don't you? I've seen your dick and I've seen you come out of it towards and I actually I did not watch the cellophane come video.


I can't let's not anybody else besides my man. I can't watch. I love it. I honestly love it. I love it to watch that whole process. That guy, should it be like a tick tock. Here's how to come on your phone. And he's like wrapping this phone up like that. It's such a little cute arts and crafts project that this guy is wrapping his phone up in plastic wrap so he can jerk off over it and come on it.


It's hysterical. She was like, so this is like a dad. She was like so she's like he's so smart and innovative. He's like an engineer because he thought of that because kids like his the school project. Listen, guys, I hope you love these ideas. I hope you do with your partner. I hope they make it to. She is the first one post divorce. So I hope that they're the exception to the rule. I think about all the time.


I think about all the time. So the people that I have been seeing have both been both I've been seeing on dating anybody.


But I am about a year out from the divorce with most of the people that the first month funny looks like stable of men. No, I'm actually consistently talking to one divorce guy who actually like a lot, but I'm super on board with that. Thank you. Thank you. I just have a good vibe about it. I didn't you I hope he never does anything terrible, but I did go on, I did go on a date and a listener saw me there and I'm very excited to read his name because I never read it to you.


OK, I'm this why is a divorce guy, which this is what I do, right? It's not somebody I'm like, seriously. It's just it's actually like a friend of mine that, like I used to date when we were like in college. And so we went out one night because he's single now. Yeah. Yeah. Mostly because I was just hoping we could like, snap a pic for his ex wife in bed because I hate her.


I met her. Co-sign. Yeah. Thank you.


Oh yeah. Just she's yakking on the inside. I'm not I'm like a body shaming thing. Yeah. No she. You ready? Yeah. OK, so this girl writes me an email, so I got spotted by a fan. This is pretty crazy. Like you and I get seen in New York blogs. A lot of our audience is in New York. I was out of town at a dive bar in the middle of nowhere. I don't know how somebody saw me.


So him and I were like alone. We're hanging out, whatever. And we go on this date. And next morning I get an email from somebody. It is seven thirty nine in the morning. This girl woke up and wrote this e-mail the minute she woke up. The subject line is a Rayno sighting message starts with Tuesday, March twenty twenty one. Oh my God. My boyfriend at our local sports bar that we frequently regular, we sat down and within five minutes he says, Babe, isn't that Rayna?


I look to my left and lo and behold, it's Rayna Greenberg sitting there with a great looking guy, whether you were on a date.


Probably not. I read that I was like, bitch, what? Why? There is friends most likely as much as I wanted to say hi, because we love you and the podcast, we even saw your show.


We couldn't help but stare over every once in a while that you guys were drinking and eventually you couldn't keep your hands off of each other while they watched the whole thing. There was a lot of making out.


No, this is can you imagine being like a fan of someone and you watched this happen? I had like eight tequilas, actually. I was so drunk. I mean, I was like falling down. They were very small drinks, but we were there for like four hours, OK? And this did not look like a friendship date. We were all over each other. Yeah, this I would she said maybe a date, maybe. I was like maybe not today.


I was like, what do you have eyes like we have never had a platonic minute with each other in our whole lives. I mean, this guy there was a lot of making out. Either way, we were excited. So you want to say hi, but at the same time respect you being out. I even almost followed you into the bathroom, but then I refrained you. We love you. Hope you had a great trip. That is what a treat for her to see you in action.


I would like to see like we talk about like we talk about dating and sex and making out. And she saw you in the wild doing it. I mean, she listens to me for dating guys. It's like going Awaji, A-Rod play on the baseball, seeing Beyonce do karaoke. And I am honestly I'm happy to report that guy's so hot.


Like if anybody wants to see me on a date with somebody, I would hope it would be him. Yeah. And I just I if that were me, if I were you, I would have loved the bathroom. Follow in like, you know me. I'm all about like making friends in the bathroom.


If she was like girl was in your pockets like as hot as I. Oh girl. And it's funny because I said to him because we were in the most random dive bar in the middle of nowhere and he he was like, do people like recognize you in bars all the time. Was like, yeah, but no one's got who the fuck is going to see me here. Yeah. Like we talked about it. Yeah.


I love that she like she probably got a little drunk too, you know, if they were there for four hours too as they watched you guys like fuck at the table. And then she so she got home and she was probably like tried to write that email and she was like trying to keep one eye open. She was like scene like scene double. And so she woke up at seven a.m. with a bag that email out seven a.m. I could not wait to tell you it was the first thing out of my eyes and saw.


That is amazing. So glad I got to feel like you guys, when I hold something back from Ashley, like, kills me. And so, like, I tell her, it's like giving birth. It feels so good. Well, I have a funny story for you that I haven't told you. So this happened. This is like a week or two ago at this point. I've been occasionally using a driver. This isn't like some I'm not fucking flying private.


It's the same price as like an Uber SUV. But it's a it's a private driver and it's wonderful. And it's like I feel like I get to kind of support this man's small business rather than giving my money to Uber left. And it's great. You know, we we've used up a couple of times, like, if I'm going somewhere that's kind of farther away and I want to have a nice comfy car and I can work in the back of it.


I've been using this driver. Rob uses him. He's incredible. He's amazing. So I was in the car with him and just we're just kind of getting to know each other like we were talking. He is from Indonesia. He's from Jakarta. He was just telling me his whole story, like he came here without his wife and kids and then they were able to come here four years later. He's been in the States for ten years. And I was like, oh, I'm so glad.


Like, your family finally got to come over here and you're, you know, making it. And then he goes, you know, are you single? Ashley and I was like, I'm single. Yeah, I'm single. And he was like, Ashley, you need to get a boyfriend. I was like, yeah, I, I. He describe the tone, the tone as though you weren't aware, like he was like his tone was literally like you should try this thing out.


Yeah, that's what I want to know. Like, what's he like? You know, you should try a carbon carbon neutral fuels. And you were like, I never thought of doing that. I was like, oh, really? Gondo I hadn't been trying it.


Like, there was like you had this problem and there was no solution for it. He was like, I have this. Like, I busted out laughing. Like, I feel like that moment really bonded us of him being like, Oh, Ashley, you should get a boyfriend. Did you how old you are.


I mean, I think and he was like, you're too old to be single. It's gross.


No, he was just like, you know, he was like, she's cool. And and he probably got, like, attractive enough. You know, I think he was just like, oh, you should look into this hot take. Thank you so much. I, like a lot said I was like, yeah, no, I'm trying just it's it's such a generational thing.


My landlord of my last buildings had that to me, too. She's like, how old are you again? I was like, thirty eggs, you know, one hundred years ago. And I was like and she was like, and you're still single. And I was like and she was like, you really got to get on it. Like I was like, it's so funny. I feel like I felt it coming. Like I feel like as soon as I was like I said that I'm single, like I knew that's what he was going to say and I'm zero percent offended.


Like that shit is so funny to me. Oh, it's so what? I don't care if somebody my own age said that to me, I'd be like, yeah, that is so funny. Why just me and my driver adviser bonded. He's like, actually boyfriends. You ever heard of them? And also, by the way, this was like six. They like whatever. It's not enforced. But if you're not ready to get hit with that right.


When they hit you with that coffee is like, OK, you know what, it's early. That's how I felt about this email when she was like, were you on a date? Probably not. And I was like, bitch, what I, I almost kind of like that.


She initially thought that it wasn't a date and then she saw you over there like sucking face. You know, there was there for four hours, three hours and forty five minutes. If it was just making out.


I don't even know if we talk about, OK, those are our stories. And we you guys, if you saw the episode description, you know what we're discussing today, a little bit heavier topic, but we are glad to be able to do it and share your stories and also bring on our dear friend Amy Chan. And we are going to get into that. We kind of just wanted to, like, knock this lighter stuff out of the way first.


And we do have some recommendations. So do you have three? I have three heavy recommendation list this. Yeah. So you have three. It's funny because you have three all the same and I have three kind of like all the same in the same category. So do you want to. Yeah, well minor. Minor, more serious. And yours are more like light and fun. Yeah. I'll do the more serious stuff and then you can like bring people back to like Happyness.


Now I, I just, I had a long week of documentaries actually I have a fourth recommendation. Oh God. OK, the first one really quick. Napat Godse has a new special on Netflix. He is one of our favorite Tennessee kids on my favorite specials ever. He is a new special on Netflix. So check that out. You guys will laugh so hard. He's fantastic. The Last Blockbuster is a documentary also on Netflix about the last blockbuster.


It's in Bend, Oregon. It's about the managers are trying to keep it alive. It's so nostalgic. It brought me back to like being a kid. We went every Friday night. You spend like an hour in Blockbuster. I remember the smell. Oh, my gosh. It was really it was nice. It was nice to hear that my mom, if you guys want to read that, I'm sure I don't watch that. Or you can also read the history of Netflix, which is called the Will Never Work.


I told you that there was a meme because Netflix made this documentary about Blockbuster dying, essentially.


And the meme was like, imagine making a documentary about the person you killed my brother. We got such a good laugh. They address it. And in the documentary about how Netflix didn't actually put them out of business. And also, of course, of course, that's just like that's a very like kind of sterilely joke. Like, yes. Like technically, no. Just like if you really look into it, same thing with Uber is in the cab system.


Like, there's more to it. Yes. I just remember. So this is like people all the people I feel like in like my hometown know this. We were not even a blockbuster family. We did a place called Video Scene. It was more of like a like a smaller franchise. My parents were like against what I like. Big, big movie. Big rental. Yeah.


And but when I would go with a friend to Blockbuster, it was bigger. It was better, it was brighter. It was more of a scene in there because I was like I mean, have seen they did have a ball pit for a minute. That was a lit Friday night. But I remember even going to Blockbuster with, like the first night, like this guy ever went to second base with me, like the first time someone ever felt my boobs.


Like I went to Blockbuster after like we went to get a movie like we had already made out, like on a date we'd already like, went on a couple of dates. But this was the first time we rented a movie and went back to his house and his parents weren't home. And like he touched my boobs. And it was just like I just remember that night being like, oh my gosh, like we're running a movie. We're going to like, go watch it and like, hook up like the moments like this.


Dalgaard Like, love them. Silja More than anything, I did what they talked about the smell. It really hit me. And that's like texting my mom about it being. The snake tried to bring me in Ireland in the basement and then just let people traveled to it, it's like it's like a tourist destination in Oregon has some crazy shit, like that's where The Goonies were filmed. Like they have some, like, really just cool, nostalgic, like the land are actually in our Morgenstern's.


We love Portland so much. She got rid of. My next one is Operation Vassy. Blue is also on Netflix. It's a deep dive into basically the fraudulent methods of this guy, Eric Singer, to get kids of rich and famous people into colleges. You guys probably know this because Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman were prosecuted for this, for trying to get their kids into schools. And just all I really like that they focus on all the ways that rich people sort of like throw their money around and how people with money just obviously have access to more things into gaming the system and to gaming standardized testing and things like that.


I thought it was really interesting. It's a dramatization, but they take all the transcripts of all the phone calls that he had with all these parents, and that's the script for the movie, which I thought was really well done. So you post it on Instagram that it was a one of the best dramatisations you've seen. And I have to agree. So I watch this with my parents. I was at my parents last week and we watched as family after you recommended it.


And it took me a minute to even realize it was a dramatization. I thought I was like, wait, how how was this filmed? It feels really real because you and I really didn't love the dramatization aspect of the social dilemma. It felt really weird and forced and like the aliens, and it was just weird. So you guys will love that. That's just one maybe like hour and documentary. And the last one is Allen versus Sparrow. It's a four part miniseries on HBO.


It shook me to my core. I think I didn't really know a lot about Woody Allen growing up other than that he married his stepdaughter. But the relationship with him and Mia Farrow is this like twelve year long, really interesting situation. He molested their seven year old daughter. And it's about like that case, essentially. I don't think this was like highly publicized when we were kids or maybe the narrative was just like Mia Farrow is this crazy person.


And Woody Allen, like all he wants to do is protect his kids. He had to take her to court trying to sue for custody of the kids. It's highly documented that he did these things by babysitters, family, friends, psychiatrists. There's dozens of people on record saying that he did abuse her and he was never really prosecuted for it.


He didn't really pay any penalties for it. And then he married her daughter, a different daughter. So I really I mean, it's really it's hard to watch, but I think important. I was talking my mom about this. My mom was like, well, Mia Farrow is a crazy person. I was like, but I don't think you even knew it wasn't publicized. All these people corroborated that this is just like a powerful white man that got away with murder.


I mean, just look at the track record of Harvey Weinstein and Roger Ailes. It's like we've come so far. I mean, we talk about this all the time. It's like there was no taking down those powerful white men back then in the 80s, 90s, whatever. Like, thank God we're doing it today. But that wasn't a thing that that could happen even a few years ago. People knew that Woody Allen did this like this was like highly publicized.


So all these actresses and actors have come forward and have donated their salaries from the movies they've done with him and have renounced him. And we'll do movies with him any more. But I don't know, even up until, like a couple of years ago, all of these, like pretty modern actresses were still doing movies with him.


So it's like, you know, so check it out. All three of them plus the Naposki special are really fantastic. OK, I have three teen movies or shows, so I just love that these are all in the same category. Teen content. You guys know I love stuff about high school.


The thing that I love about all of these, of the we are just seeing this is not a heartache, so much more exclusivity like you look at mean girls of course still love mean girls, but it's it's all white and there is a lot of stereotypes. And, you know, teen movies of the past were just growing as a society. It's beautiful to see, but it's really great to see. The show is about kids and teens like showing so much more diversity.


So I just love that. The first one is Moxey. It's a movie on Netflix. It's directed by Amy Poehler and she also accident. It's about this teenage girl who she notices the sexism in her school and she just kind of takes it on and kind of leads this revolution in the school. There's just like so much girl power. The whole vibe is like, fuck the patriarchy. And it's just it's really inclusive with the girls that are that are in the movie.


It tackles toxic masculinity, harassment. It even does tackle rape. But at the end of the day, it's just like ultimately like super uplifting. And I was like crying the whole time. I loved every minute of it. And then there is the two All the boys trilogy that's on Netflix. And these are based on it on books by an author named Jenny Horne. You guys probably know this. There's two all the boys I've loved before is the first one.


And then the two sequels are two. All the boys, I still love you. And to all the boys, always and forever. I still haven't watched always and forever. But I watched the first two and I just love them. It's about this teenage girl. She is an Asian American girl. Her dad is white and he is Asian from Sex and the City. And her mom, her mom is actually passed. But she writes these love letters to these guys and they actually get sent out.


And then it's like kind of what happens. Like, I won't spill the whole details, but and it's like her journey. And the first two movies are in high school and I think she goes to college and the third one. But the ultimate vibe to me is like very like, make your move. Shoot your shot like she kind of wrote these secret letters that worked out in her favor because she kind of thought these boys would never like her and it turns out that they did.


So it's just I love that that whole message and I just love those movies and I can't recommend them. Not theaters like feel good.


And then the third one is Jenny in Georgia. Ever heard of it? I've heard of it. So many guys hear me about this. Like to watch it.


Yes, I know about the Taylor Swift thing. Don't do you. I mean but I mean, it didn't hold me back from watching it, so I'll leave it at that.


Yeah, I think so. I loved it. The main character is this biracial teenager and it's about her life with her crazy mom who was kind of like always they've moved around a lot and it's like her going to high school and trying to fit in. And this, I also think addresses like a lot of important topics race, sex, homosexuality, being a child of this like quote unquote, broken, like chaotic family. The characters are flawed. Like it's not like a Gilmore Girls.


It's not like a I mean, again, I don't I never watch Gilmore Girls, but like I feel like it was a little like we were everything. We were girls, me and girls, girls for us. But like, there's like some darker stuff. It's a little darker. There's some, like, murder, like it's good for women. And I loved it. And I watch it with my mom. We both loved it. I think it's, again, great just to show the inclusively.


And I just love how these two movies are evolving. And we are talking about women of color today and we are focusing on Asian women. And I think that just how Asian people in general are being portrayed in these movies is so important. So for for one, that the lead actress in All the Boys is an Asian girl, she's the protagonist, lead actress, and then in Jenny in Georgia. And Moxey, the love interest is an Asian male.


So I just think about this all the time.


I think about this. We talked to Bryant Park how like Asian men have never been seen as like I mean, in the past, like the hot boyfriend, you know, in the past, like movies and media and how we were saying insecure was one of the first shows to really do that. So I always take, you know, to the stuff. And it's like I mean, there are high schoolers, so just, you know, they're kids.


But like there are these are good looking, cool Asian dudes that are like desirable. And again, we did a whole episode on this with Bryant Park. And you guys can look back. That was in the summer. But like, I just notice it because we come from a very white teen movie upbringing. I mean, I understand. I mean, I want to talk about a little bit more like later in the episode, because representations of minorities just in general on television.


And when you look at like all these all these especially like dating stuff, but like Real Housewives, it never even occurred to me there's no representation of anybody on television. They pick one franchise. They made them all black. It's like, why is this not if they finally they have one Asian person in the Dallas one now, like it's slowly happening. Yeah, but it's nice to see it and think like I didn't even think that deeply into it for so long.


But now you see it. It's important. And that makes me feel it's important for the kids and teenagers to see characters who look like them on TV. I'm thinking of Mindy Kaling show. Never have I ever the lead as an Indian American teenage girl and all shows like this that there's just a lot more. And so we obviously love to see it. And I look forward to a time and that will be this generation is growing up. We're like, it's so normal that they wouldn't even think it's it's revolutionary.


Do you know what I mean? Like, to me, I see this and I'm like, this is so great and important. But that generation will just think this is the norm. This is it will be like how I felt seeing like gay people on TV because like when I first I will and Grace and I was like, oh, like representations of homosexuals on television, like I had never seen it. And now, like, no one would think twice.


Of course, half the cast is gay and a lot of shows. Right. Like in Moxey, like these two girls kiss and you're like, it's not a big deal, you know what I mean? It's not so revolutionary. So I look forward to a time where people don't have to talk about how revolutionary this is. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I know. Like, that's the thing. Like, this should be the norm. But I also think it's nice to bring attention to, like, the evolution under-represent.


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When you customize, you can use the coupon code at JGI for another ten dollars off your first box at WW w dot fab fit fun dotcom. Check it out. Do unboxing for us tag guys. You guys always tag. Isn't that beatboxes. Yeah, absolutely. All right. OK, all right. You or something. So yeah I just, I mean. Yeah. So just given what's going on in the world, I think we all have become aware that there's been a rise in anti Asian violence and hate crimes and the devastating shooting in Atlanta in which eight people lost their lives, six of those people being Asian women.


I don't even know these things happen. I don't I don't have the words like devastating isn't like enough of a word, you know what I mean? It's like horrifying. It's like disgusting. Like, keeps me up at night. Like, I'm not going to get into gun control today. We'll save that for another time. But that was kind of like the precipice of what had been happening, where people were getting beat up on the streets, like the elderly, like I feel so sick about what's going on that like anyone, not just Asian people, anyone like black, brown, Asian would ever feel unsafe or that their family or their friends were unsafe just simply because of the color of their skin, because the way they look that they couldn't walk around their neighborhood, that someone might jump them.


You don't like it just there's just so much like disgusting, like hate and white supremacy and misinformation and ignorance and colonialism in this country. And there always has been. But like it obviously was so emboldened by the former administration and like a year of the president blaming the pandemic on China, like, yeah, look what happened. And people like making jokes and playing into it. And it's just like I hate it so much. Like I feel so angry.


I want to just channel that anger into, like, actionable things and, you know, post it on our platforms, talking about on this podcast, donating to different organizations and help and trying to help. This is just brought racism against Asians to the forefront of conversation, which, of course. Seems like much needed and it's reminiscent of what we discussed with Fred Smith on our episode in June about racism, more geared towards black people and how he said that these things happen and they get put on the world stage and people are are sharing more of how they're feeling and how they've always felt when these things get brought to light.


And I mean, it's always disgusting that people lose their lives or they get hurt for these conversations to happen. But it's important that we have them. So change can happen and we can progress and move forward. And I mean, it goes out saying that there is so much good in the world. Like, I think we see that every day, too. But obviously it just takes a few bad people to cause a lot of harm. Yeah.


And, you know, we are really honored to have a platform to talk about these things. Of course, we're going to talk about fetishisation. Fetishise is a tough one. Every read that word takes me like I have to take a deep breath. I'm we're going to talk about fetishizing Asian women. We're going to use your words to tell your stories. Asian. I can only do so much. We are white women.


And, you know, I will say I didn't realize how big of a problem this was. And that's my white privilege. You know that to have your head in the sand and not really realize how terrible things are for certain groups of people. And I grew up in the Northeast where I thought it was pretty accepting. I don't ever see anybody openly do anything terrible towards a minority in New York City. You just wouldn't see it that often. But again, it's your privilege to not know those things as a white person.


And I feel like the really important thing is it's being talked about as being brought to the forefront that our listeners are emailing us, that we have guests that will come on the show and talk about this. And I'm really honored to be able to uplift these voices and give them a platform, because these are really important conversations to have. And you have to check all these voices that are doing things like calling this the Kong flu. And these are minorities and small business owners that have suffered throughout this pandemic because of those words and those words.


Are there impactful and they're meaningful and you have to fight those words. Yeah. And to your point about kind of not knowing what's going on is like you really can live in a bubble that is New York City where you don't I mean, granted, there things are happening in Chinatown that we see now, but where you really don't see and hear these things, you know, surround myself with people that would say things. Exactly. And, you know, my own experience that I can compare it to is Jewish.


And we are a minority. And I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood. All my friends were Jewish. I went to a Jewish school. My temple was the Tree of Life temple, which was violently attacked years ago. And I didn't realize people hated Jews because everybody around me was a Jew. And it was fun to be Jewish. It was cool to be Jewish. And yeah, even if I dated people that weren't Jewish, their parents were like, poke fun at me for, like, cute stuff.


But it felt like loving. It didn't feel like a microaggression. It felt like they wanted to learn about my culture. And I didn't realize the people hated Jews or didn't know Jews. And it just it was a cool thing to be Jewish where I grew up. So when I and I also came from a family that never would have said a terrible thing about any minority. My parents are completely intolerant of any type of racism, especially spoken words of racism.


I didn't grow up around anybody that would have said anything like that towards any minority. So it wasn't until I went to college in Indiana that I even met people that said, like, I've never been a Jew before. Yeah, I've never met a black I've never been around black people before. I didn't know that people were like that. Yeah. I just thought, like, everybody's tolerant of everyone because that's how I grew up. Yeah. I love that you shared that.


And when it comes to all this, you know, I think we're all learning. I'm constantly learning. You know, my personality is to be, you know, kind of loud and blunt. And I try to be funny and self-deprecating. And I'm also so interested and curious about other cultures. And just in general, I'm a person who always just wants to know everybody's story. You know, there was like a guy that I ended up dating fucking and the first thing I asked and that night was like, South Dakota.


What's that about?


You either I mean, like, that's just a joke. And that's the guy that's a white guy that's you know, he lives the United States. I just was like, I'm so curious about like people story. I ask them so bluntly. So I just I have to be careful with being like, what's that about? OK, well, I was glad that I knew about this. I ask you, what's that about all the time now? He was I think it turned him on.


He was like I roasted him about being from South Dakota. I don't know what that's about, but I know more now. But and this was just joke. And I just want to make right to laugh. Like we're not comparing this to the stories we'll hear today. It's just I'm kind of like just, you know, reflecting on myself. And I think that's something that we should all do. And it's that's why it's so powerful and informative hearing these stories from our listeners that we're going to share.


Like, I think that it's important that everybody kind of reflects on themselves, too. And I wanted to share one sentence that one of the girls said, I know that lots of people out there have good intentions. But I guess what I mean is it's not necessarily what you say, but how you say it or your tone of voice when you ask about my heritage.


And I think we're always learning. I think that I've said things. You probably said things even the past three years. This podcast that we wouldn't say today, not anything crazy like a slur. You guys know that's not what we do, but just say things. Certainly more carefully today. So I just think ultimately that's the beauty of growth, like we can look back on something we might have said years ago and like we wouldn't say that today because we have new information, like the world has changed and like people are growing and they're becoming better.


You're allowed to learn more information and grow and change. And, you know, we've talked a lot about cancer culture, so we don't need to get into that. But, you know, I think so much of the Black Lives Matter movement was about just learning how other people think and feel and actually learning and being better. And I do feel like I'm a better person today because of what I've read and learned. And, you know, recently I've spent a lot more time, especially in the last couple of weeks, especially researching dating apps and things like having ethnicity and race filters on dating apps and this discussion about whether they should remove them.


And Grindr has removed them and Hinch's not and certain what they all have their different reasons for doing so. But there's a lot of discussion around racism and ethnicity on dating apps and should we be allowed to filter out? And something I love about dating apps is that it is allowed more people to have interracial relationships because you're not just shopping for a partner in your socioeconomic, racial, ethnic background of your neighborhood. It's allowing you to go on the Internet to find people from everywhere.


So the good part about that is that it has allowed people to connect with people outside of just their circle, which is great and it's beautiful. But, you know, if you read the stories from people about the racism that they experience as a minority on dating apps, it's pretty hard to read. And it's disappointing. It's disheartening.


Yeah. And I just I didn't even think about that because I don't set those filters at all. But I guess it also lets women just filter out white men. That's I mean, that's the argument for not getting rid of it like bumbles. Got rid of a Grindr. They're saying, you know, everybody should be allowed to. It's not just white people filtering out white people, but I mean, listen, they're private businesses. They're allowed to do anything they want.


I personally, like felt like I learned a lot Rudi's articles. And, yeah, there was an Asian man that they were interviewing one of these articles and he was talking about the racism that he finds on these apps. But that, like, if I don't use them, I can't meet people who said, you know, I'm faced with this, what?


I rather be alone and should I be alone or should I go on these apps and face the racism that I feel that I face all the time on them and people treating me like you're in other otherwise? Yeah. And I just I feel for people that get on dating apps and deal with those scenarios all the time. All the time. And what we want to accomplish today is, you know, sharing these stories and there is power in a sense of community.


So listeners may hear their story and be able to relate and feel seen and heard and validated and also bring awareness to these types of situations and for for people that may not realize that that they're happening. And ultimately, hearing other people's stories can create empathy. It can impact change. And the whole point of what we try to do is to you know, it's a common podcast. At the end of the day, guys, we talk about blowjobs and shit.


But like when we when we tackle these topics, it's partially to obviously educate, but also make people feel seen and heard and validated. And we always want to treat these subjects with sensitivity and respect and like choose our guests very carefully. And, you know, one person can't be an expert on all cultures and all the microaggression and all the things that people say. So ultimately, what we want to do here was just use the words of our listeners and share their stories.


And then we are going to bring on Amy Chan to share her story as well. But everybody has a different story. And we just were like, why don't we take the words and stories of our actual listeners, you know, and like, let's talk about it and let's unpack it and let's hear what they have to say. And we just want to thank you all that sent us your stories. We are honored to be a safe space that would send us and they would allow us to take your words and use them to talk about your experiences.


So to thank you all. And we're going to read again your emails. Yeah, some of this stuff is painful to write and probably brings up some of these past experiences. So the fact that you guys felt comfortable and safe emailing them means a lot to us. We just can't thank you enough. But before we get into them, let's just hype our other partners for this episode. So to come to any of these stories I am telling you guys about pretty letter, OK?


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It makes me so horny. Yeah. And oh my God, we got that email. Was it a dream or what did she she must have or she did end up and she said, oh, she tweeted it, we got to read this right now.


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I mean, these were some things that came up a lot of just like with Asian women, lots of things about having yellow fever. Like I can't really say it's like hard to even say that that's like a thing that men could lead with. And people just constantly saying, where are you from? No, like where you really from saying things like, I've never been with an Asian, Indian Latina before, things like that one girl. But I can't tell you the amount of times guys use.


What are you as their opening line to meet me at bars and day naps. So those are just some things that came up a lot. We're going to read some stories and for some I just pulled like something really important out of it. So we're just going to get into it. Yeah. So our first email, a little bit of background information. I'm Puerto Rican. My skin color is medium to dark, and I have big curly hair.


Here are some shipmen. Say, I've never dated someone exotic. Don't call me exotic. I'm not animal chat. So she quotes everyone and then said something after. Yeah, I've always wanted to fuck a black girl. I'm not here to help you check off one of your disgusting bucket list fantasies. You must know how to dance. I do, but I'm sure as hell not going to dance with you. You don't sound like a black girl, but.


You sound like a complete piece of shit. I love her clawbacks. Let's go to clubs. You could work on me. Sure, buy me a drink and then I'll kick you in the balls. Is your hair real? And she wrote, DataDot immediately blocked the list goes on and on. It's sad, annoying that people still say stuff like this. I usually try to educate people when they say some type of comments like this, but to be quite honest, it gets tiring.


Yeah, of course it does. It feels exhausting to be the central educator for all these people. Yeah. And just it's frustrating that the overwhelming emotion I'm feeling from a lot of these women is like, I'm just tired of this. Like it's not once it's a lot and I'm just fucking tired and I'm over it. It's sounds like it's so many guys that say the same things over and over and over again. It would make me not want to date.


It would make me throw my hands up. Yeah, OK. I'll be the next one. She said hi. I'm a twenty four year old Asian-American woman. Huge fan. The podcast, it's gotten me through a lot, yada yada. Part of myself care. She's really sweet message to us. And then she said, I grew up in very white spaces, so I didn't realize how hard the current events would hit me. I finally have to address my internal and identity issues and have space to do so.


With fetishisation being such a factor in what happened in Atlanta and my recent experience of being fetishized, I am currently always on the verge of tears. I'll summarize her story. She goes on to share a story about a friend, or I think it was her sister's friend trying to set her up with a coworker and really pushing it even after she initially said no, which is problematic to begin with. Someone says no, it's a fucking no. But later came to find out that he that the coworker had an Asian fetish and that he had seen a picture of her and her sisters and literally, like, picked her out of the photo and was like, I want to date her, make it happen.


And she just felt like he thinks Asian women are submissive. And she signed it sincerely, not submissive or silent. So the fetishization of Asian women in American culture is a huge problem. And I feel like it took something as awful and disgusting as like a shooting for people to be like, oh, shit, could we have seen this coming? You know what I mean? Yes.


Yes, you could have. And one of our listeners, we shared her email earlier a couple of weeks ago, and she said, you know, I come from a culture that was just told to be quiet and fit in and not make noise. Essentially, it's a shame that that this hasn't been brought to light until so much violence. Yeah, but I'm glad to share the stories. Our female, she is Latina and she share a story about her struggles of dating a white guy in college and having a racist professor.


Being a woman of color and dating requires a lot of confidence. Looking back, if I wasn't always doubting myself for being the only black indigenous person of color, then all of my classes, maybe comments like that wouldn't hurt so much. I vividly remember walking into my honors classes and just feeling like this look from all my white classmates and feeling so unwelcomed. One thing higher education and that shitty relationship taught me was that BIPAC, people have to be excellent always and white people don't have to show up.


The same Brads thesis was passed and while we were dating, he was on an academic probation. My thesis was denied and I graduated with a three point nine GPA with automatic acceptance into a grad program on the same campus. Morillas story. If you're a woman of color, I'm not saying your person is not white, but it's not going to be a good time if they can't see the struggles you face day to day and you're not well aware of their own privilege.


I think that's such a good call. Like, it's not that you can't date a white person, but it needs to be someone like gets it. There's a woman on Instagram. Her name is Genevieve Roth, and she is married to a black man and they have a biracial child. And she documents. Well, I'll read her Instagram bio says, sharing stories about the ways my whiteness has impacted my marriage and mothering. And it's really honest accounts and stories of her kind of realizing now that she couldn't see past her own whiteness to really understand and empathize with her husband even.


And it's Genevieve. Jay Roth is her is the handle. And I just I find it really impactful, especially for interracial relationship. And this listener story reminded me of that. And we didn't hear the whole story. But, yeah, she was dating this white guy named Brad Paisley. And just like he didn't get it, like she was like, this is racism. And he's like, I don't think so, you know, like that kind of stuff.


I think you want to at least be with somebody that will hear you and hear out what your struggles are.


Yeah, OK, we are just going to do a couple more. So she writes, I'm a thirty one year old woman from the Navajo Nation in New Mexico because the Navajo Nation covers three states and online dating can be such a mess. As soon as guys that I match with find out that I'm native, it either goes three ways. No. One, Whoa, you're native. That's so cool. Tell me about your people. I've never met a native born here before, a.k.a. tokenized two tribes that cool about it.


But then it becomes apparent that our lived experiences are drastically different. And at this point it usually ends three constant pressure to send sexy nudes and brings up Disney's Pocahontas narrative. The white guy and native gal and at this point just feels so sexualized that I'm no longer a woman with the aliens. But this conquered quest of being able to sleep with someone so exotic like feels the cringing. Here to further the obstacles of online dating, there's always the concerns of safety for anyone more so with missing and murdered indigenous women crisis across North America.


Also in Canada, the U.S. Department of Justice found the native women face murder rates are 10 times more than the national average. We have discussed that on this podcast before. So she just says that when a match you with a guy like I'm already cautious about where we meet and there is like there's like a fear coupled with the whatever it is, the tokenization and the fetishization, it's a lot. So she said on a lighter note, I'm so glad to be a listener.


I've learned so much and about empowering myself and enjoying being single as fuck.


But like, I just just imagine having to explain your experience to everybody, like and at some point, yes, we're all different.


We come from different backgrounds. We have to explain where we come from. But imagine having to lead with that and explain what what your race is and where you came from. And it's exhausting. Yeah. And I you know, this guy is like this to me. Ultimately, I want to do we want to share your experiences. And we also wanted to like, let people know that really don't know that this happens to non-white women when they're just trying to date.


And I don't really have the answers. And perhaps we do that like on another episode where we have someone come on the can. We need to find this perfect person, but speak more in, like how you respond or we can read the next one. She just says, get rid of all this.


Laughs What do you want reteam. You went through all this right after this, but I'll I'll close it. Don't I don't read it. I love to read. I'm a good reader. OK, she says I saw the inside story while dating as a woman of color. I identify as Asian-American and girl things. I have learned one if they have anywhere in their profile, they like anime, throw the whole man out.


If they tell me that they love Asians, they're their favorite. Throw the whole man out. If they follow a ton of Asian models on Instagram like live your truth. But it's sketches sketchiest when all the women models they follow are Asian women. Throw the whole van out if they brag about being a fucking white belt in taekwondo, you guessed it. Throw the whole man out. She said, honestly, it's an Asian women. I've always had the fear of being fetishized while dating.


But now, with all the recent violence toward Asian women, I am really scared about what harm could come to me potentially. And I approach dating with even more extra care to make sure I don't put myself into situations that could be harmful to me. I love you girls. Let me know if you want to talk more. And like she's, you know, she's funny about it, but it's it's fucking lame. Like, I cannot relate. I'm a white woman.


But I will say that even as like an older woman, like, I don't want some young guy to, like, think of me as some, like cougar conquest. Like, none of us want to be fetishized in any way. And I know it's not the same. I know it's not comparable. I can't stress that enough. But it's like while we're talking about the fetishization and the things men say to women, you know, I just I wanted to bring it up.


I know it's like age. It's not race. I really do it to another person. I can't imagine approaching. I mean, I love Indian men, Asian men, Middle Eastern man. I'll fuck every race. I can't imagine approaching somebody at a bar and be like, man, why are you really from like, I would never do something like that. I don't need to have experienced it my life to know that it's wrong. I wouldn't do it.


Yeah. Throw me a man out.


We all are. People were humans. It's crazy to treat us like we're less than human. And I think that's like such. The problem with what we see, what happened in Atlanta and just what American culture has done to Asian women and other women of color as well, that they are like an object objectified ultimately.


And Amy Chan will speak to this a little bit today with us. And we're excited to talk to her. And we have well, this was just a line I liked. This was from a woman. She's an Indian woman. She actually came to our Charleston show and she wrote a story at the end. It just said, Tell TDR. Fetishizing someone for being different leads to a lot of internalized self-hatred and rejection of their own culture and lasting impact on who that person becomes later in life.


I'm glad that you read this because I was reading an article about this study and exposure to these experiences may absolutely ferment feelings of shame, humiliation, inferiority, negatively impacting the self-esteem and overall psychological health of racial and ethnic minorities. They said it better than I could.


But yeah, every one of these things, it just it slowly chips away at you. Yeah. And no matter how strong you are, what kind of support system you have, the things that people say to you inform how you go through life. Absolutely. So, you know. But keep it in mind. Yeah. So like we said, we want to bring awareness, the stuff and maybe it can make some change. I mean, I don't know, like spread the word, tell your friends, tell your fucking brother or tell your guy friends like or if you're a guy listening like no, that this is not how you talk to women.


And like if you are leading with this stuff, you have some shit to work on, like self reflect and fix it. Yeah. Because you're making people feel like less then. Yeah. And we're all entitled to make mistakes. But what you should be doing is learning and listening to these stories and do fucking bet 100 percent.


Do better. Be better. OK, so we are going to bring in Amy guys.


We are. Are very excited, honored to welcome back a former guest of ours. She was one of your all time favorite episodes about breakup's. She is the founder of Break a Boot Camp, the writer of the book Breaking Up Boot Camp. Please welcome back to the show.


AJ and I are like best friend of the pandemic ruined.


We were like trying to get together and then covid like we were always like, you invited some event and then we really got to get drinks with Amy. And then we went to Australia and then we came back and it was covered. And then you moved away and you left us. And it's like, what are we going to get this friendship going on now?


Do we text and we talk? But I'm just like, oh, good. And you moved away. You are from Vancouver. You lived in New York back since we filmed it. You recorded.


Yeah. Yeah. So I'm loving it here. It's really nice.


So tell us what else is going on? How's your pandemic? And so we recorded the end of 2009 or beginning of twenty.


Twenty or. No, we recorded with you in the fall of twenty twenty nineteen. OK, and so you're you're in Vancouver, you're still the same partner. Just tell us what's been going on in the past year of your life.


Yeah. So I hosted my last physical retreat and then the pandemic hit and I was in quarantine for forty five days and a six hundred square foot apartment with three cats and then yeah, my boyfriend and I decided that let's just leave. And he hadn't even visited Vancouver before and we packed her bags and in three weeks we left and we now have our new home in Vancouver, Canada. It's been really great. And since then I published my book, Breakup Bootcamps.


I took the retreat's online. So I offer virtual retreats and workshops now and I've just really recalibrated. I used to be in New York and just hustle all the time and that was my norm. And I got out of it and I was like, whoa, what was I doing in life? Is just a lot more peaceful now and slow. And I take my time.


So good for people who don't know who are newer listeners. Just catching up. Can you give us a quick overview of what a bootcamp is? And we'll tell people where the episode is, of course.


Yeah. So break up the camp. We take a scientific and spiritual approach to healing and rewire the heart. I bring in thirteen experts from psychologists, behavioral scientists to Dominatrixes, and we help people after a break up. But everyone who comes, whether it's a physical retreat or a virtual one, they realize after that's never just about the exits, recycle pain. So we really work on the deep subconscious patterns and belief systems that cause people to repeat the same emotional experiences over and over again.


Yeah, and it's completely life changing again. And if you guys, of course, go back and listen or episode, if you're listening, as you probably already listened, it's literally one of our very top five most popular episodes. But and of course, get your book, you can't recommend it enough. Yeah.


So you are here today again because we were doing an episode about Asian-Americans and a rise in hate crimes, especially towards women. And we both really love what you wrote. You wrote something really special and meaningful and moving. And we would love to talk to you about what you wrote in your experience and really just give you the Florida to talk about growing up as an Asian woman and what that was like.


Yeah, so I wrote a blog about my experience growing up, being Asian, and I have to say thank you, because if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't have put it out there and promoted it because I kind of hid behind it. I wrote it to kind of get things off my chest and I hit it on my blog. And, yeah, because of you, it actually caused this ripple effect. And I just shared about my experience growing up because I thought it was normal.


I hated being Asian and one of my memories was saving my allowance money and going to the makeup counter and asking the woman, I want white foundation. So I look white and the woman at the counter was like, you can't do that. And I do believe her. So I just went on my own. I picked the whitest foundation I could and I was like, OK, this is my ticket out. I could look Caucasian and being Chinese would be my little dirty secrets.


And that was normal for me. I, I went to a school where pretty much everyone was white. None of the boys liked the Asian girl. It was very obvious to me that I was not the same. And any time I heard a racist remark when kids would be super, me and I like pull their eyelids into slants and make fun of me, even though my eyes are like super big, I, I just was like, ha, like, what's going on, like whatever.


And it was just a constant shrugging it off. And that's how my culture. It's part of my culture, you don't really say anything and you really prioritize harmony over conflict or confrontation.


Do you remember like going home after school as a kid and talking to your parents about it and saying, like, kids aren't being nice to me and was the message just don't talk about it or how did you feel and how did you decide to not talk about it?


I am the daughter of immigrant parents who came to from China to Canada. My great grandparents built built the rural road. These conversations just weren't part of our lives. Survival was my parents' priority. And so, yeah, there was no hope conversations and they were always working. So I didn't have my parents around. And so I never felt safe talking to them about anything. I just kind of took it in and was like, this is normal, this is normal.


It's obviously so heartbreaking to hear that you were embarrassed of what you were as a child and wanting to, like, not be that. But you talked about how it started to feel differently as you became more of a woman, young woman.


Things changed in the 90s and suddenly being an Asian woman was trendy and it was cool. And so I've done some research on like what the hell happened because it was a really drastic difference. And I don't know if it was because some popular television shows started to show Asian women. I know there's a very popular Seinfeld episode where there's like this whole thing about him dating an Asian woman. I don't know if that's a coincidence or if that was kind of part of what started it.


But suddenly being an Asian woman was sexy and I started to get attention from guys and this was something I struggled with. So I was like, OK, like, giddy up, like I'm going to play into this. And I just morphed my identity again and really took on this hot Asian girl fantasy. And it was performative. I mean, even sexually I was performative and I knew that was going to be validated and accepted. And I also knew that there were certain guys and they were known to only date Asian women.


And I know that there's even like this girl, we'll call her Jamie. And she kind of looks like me, some people say. But any guy that has ever like Jamie would like me and vice versa. And like this was just something, again, like normalized. I didn't question it. I didn't think that there was anything wrong with it. I just played into it because it gave me a sense of acceptance.


And so how did that sort of inform the way that you chose men and you chose to date and like, look at yourself?


I think that I would look at certain guys. You know, there was a certain entrepreneur groups where I was like, oh, yeah, that guy, he only dates Asian women like there's a target for me. So, like, I would flirt with them and then, yeah, in turn they would like me and like we would date and this happened over and over again and obviously to not, you know, never a successful relationship. But that's kind of the thing I did for a couple of years.


And I'm only starting to look at how did these things affect me only now, because for most of my life, I have disassociated from feeling any of these things. I've learned all these coping mechanisms right from a child. My coping mechanism was to hide the feelings, to not talk about it, to blend in, don't cause a stir. Then as a 20 year old woman to my later 20s, it was OK to be in this mould of the sexy person that they want.


And I just never stopped to be like, hey, how is this affecting me? Is this helping me? It's only now that I'm starting to unravel that.


Amy, I just can't thank you enough for your honesty and like, talking us about this today. Like, it's just it's I. I don't know if it brings up a lot for you, but I just I'm so appreciative that you're, like, sharing this with us. And I just feel like it's going to speak to so many people. I'm sure this is there are there women listening? They're like, that's my story. And it sounds to me like you're unpacking some of it now in real time.


Yeah, it's like being a fish in water and you let water, right? I think that's a really similar experience. And even when I heard about the shootings, I felt all these emotions and I was like, don't cry. Like, every time I would come up, like just, you know, that was just my natural way of of being. And when you. Behaved with these coping mechanisms for so long, for decades, that becomes a pattern of behavior.


So the day afterwards and you sent me a text and I remember I was in my car and I cried when you checked in on me. And it was right after you sent me that text. I went to a coffee shop at I wrote that, oh, my God, I'm like, not worthy.


Like, you told me that. And I was like, I don't deserve this recognition.


And it was just it was just a check in. But for some reason it activated something in me and it made me stop all of the like.


I'm fine, I'm OK. And you're like, wait. Like maybe I'm actually not OK. And I I've been practicing letting myself feel the feelings and if I want to cry, like, let it go. And yeah, I'm still unpacking all of this.


Yeah, I, I think that probably a lot of people will really relate to your message of I learned that I can lead with sex and my value is how I looked and that's how I showed up to the world. And on top of that I was fetishized for it and I picked mine because then to unpack that and there's nothing wrong with that. Like, I I grew breasts as a very young age. I learned that I could lead with sex and get people to like me as well.


Not I mean, it's not the same thing at all. But I leaned into it. I mean, I thought that that was my value for a long time as well. And to sort of recalibrate your brain to say, like, there's all these things I bring to the table, it's sort of like jolts you a little bit.


Yeah. Yeah. Do you talk to your partner about this kind of thing? A lot.


So my partner is really into politics. And so, you know, before I used to just shy away from all of these things, like I don't want to read the news like it, just like, you know, it's not positive.


And I now I'm listening to political podcasts. I like we're having these conversations at the dinner table. I'm looking at different perspectives. And so, yeah, it's been really great to have a supportive partner where I feel really safe to talk about these things to express. And he's my rock.


Is he is he white? He is half Italian, half something they don't know.


I hate to ask question so bluntly, but I, I think that there is we had a story from a listener who shared like if you are a woman of color, she I think she said, I'm not saying that you can't be with a white person. Obviously, it happens all the time and it works out. But it needs to be someone that understands where you're coming from and what you may deal with that they have never have. And but they're willing to try to understand and be empathetic and put themselves in your shoes and comfort you and be there for you.


So obviously that you have that you you have healthy relationships. You've written books about it. Like, of course, you have a healthy partnership. But I still wanted to, you know, just make sure that he's I'm supposed to do and that he's not on notice, OK?


He confesses she's like he actually hasn't been that great. We'll be there. We will be there. I wanted to ask you and take your time thinking about this, but for other people that are like, OK, well, I have a partner, I might be Asian and I have a partner that's not I want to talk to them about this stuff or I want to talk to them about what they might not realize is a big deal, but is a micro aggression against me or even their friends.


But if you have advice for how to talk to your partner about it, I think a lot of people dealt with this over the summer. Of course, Black Lives Matter and also wanted to educate their partners. So do you have advice for talking to your partner about this kind of stuff?


Yeah, I mean, the way that I've done it is, you know, the the news is something which starts as a starting point, right? When the shootings happen, that was a major conversation. And then I went into, OK, this is my experience of it. And I started to share stories. And I think it's really important that we share our stories where before there might have been a lot of shame around it, because that's how we minimize the shame.


It's by shining light on these stories and these things that we've kept hidden. And and you do that with someone you feel safe with before you're able to go out and do it and share it with the world. So I think that's a very first step is with this person that you trust, talk about what happened and talked about your confusion, ask the questions and give them an opportunity to ask you questions. And and if they're not asking the right questions, guide them and educate them.


And so, you know, and that's with your partners and even with your friends. Right. Like, I have been a part of the jokes. Right. I've participated in them. I've laughed at them. I've made the jokes right. One Halloween, I went to this Halloween party, which was hosted by these guys that are known to have like Asian fever. And I dressed up in. A traditional Chinese dress with a doctor's kit and a sign that I was carrying yellow fever.


Funny because the heat, it doesn't start off as hate persay. I don't think it starts. I think that, you know, heat simmers until it explodes and it starts with that seemingly harmless joke. The other thing, the other person, the objectifying the other person, and there are these hundreds or thousands of slights that add up. And so I think that part of this is educating people, because I don't think that most people are evil and have bad intentions that they want to hurt you.


I think a lot of people are informed, they're not educated, they're not having these conversations. I know growing up I didn't have any conversations about racism or sexism. And so part of this is when someone is saying a joke or saying something that is inappropriate and you feel it, you there's that moment where you're but then you're like, OK, I'll just giggle.


I know for me. And and then just ask like, hey, like do you think that's appropriate and what makes you think it's appropriate. Like ask with curiosity.


But when you go and you're like oh my God. Like why did you say that you're such an idiot. Like I don't know if that is going to have as much of an impact than asking with curiosity and compassion and being like, hey, I'm I'm curious and having opening up that dialogue so that people can start to be like, oh, wait, I didn't know that that has that impact. OK, I think that's where it starts for sure.


And I wanted to get back to the dating and the fetishizing we've talked a lot about on this episode and ask you if you feel like there are signs of it. And, you know, because I think there's a world in which there could be a man, for example, and he has a few ex-girlfriends that are all Asian. And that doesn't necessarily mean that he has a fetish. That could be that he it's coincidence where you live matters demographics and just in general gravitating towards a certain type of look like we all do.


You can line up a lot of guys that you and I both dated that looked similar. So I just wanted to hear from you. Did you ever pick up on things that made you feel that it was more of a fetishization than a preference of attractiveness?


I would say that you could look for me, I could feel it, that something was a little off. So it's almost like that sense of conquest. So when when someone's conquest, they have an idea of what maybe it is they want a wife or they want whatever it is. And they're like, oh, do you? You fit in.


They're not dealing with you as a human being.


They're dealing with you as an object and a means to an end, like I will fit you here. And in my experience of being fetishized, I could feel it like someone was like, oh my gosh. Like they have a thing for Asian women and it's super sexy and like you. And there's no, like, wanting to know my soul or my brain like any of us. So, yeah, I think that I don't know what are the red flags, telltale signs, but I think that, you know, for me I could feel something.


And then I also played into some of it to where I was like, oh, OK, well, that's the way that I'm going to get this guy to like me. OK, cool. Like I'm I'm game. And now, like, I'm in a healthy partnership, like, I just don't feel any of that shit. It's just it's not there.


You just know it when you see it. Right. There's just things you can't necessarily make a laundry list of it. It's just I can feel it and feel it. I've been slotted in here and anybody else could be slotted in here. And I think it's just important to acknowledge it. Think about how do these things affect me and and move forward. Yeah. Well, anything else, Amy, that you wanted to talk about today? Like, I we're just so honored that you took the time and talked about the stuff you wrote and how you been feeling.


Yeah, I've been thinking about this quote a lot. It's privileges when you think something is not a problem because it's not a problem to you personally.


And it's just been a really great quote to really shift perspective and make you think about these things, because even before when I was hearing some of the the people speak up about racism, like, oh, like I don't I face it.


I you know, I'm in Vancouver, like, half the population here is Asian. No, it's not a problem. But like, I've been using this kind of as a filter in all of these different issues that are being brought. The light right now, and I think that could be helpful for people, I think that, you know, what you guys are doing is great, like providing a platform. And so for others, you don't have a platform.


I think like enabling and opening space for people to share their stories is really important. And even however you're going to signal to other people Asian's so that they feel safe with you, that they're emotionally safe to talk to you about these things. I think that's a really helpful thing that you can do and educate when you hear those jokes instead of just Googling or like staying silent, say something.


I love that you said that. And I think that that'll be like the perfect litmus test for everybody, which is just because I don't think it's an issue doesn't mean I mean, I think about that all the time. You see that I sort of saw that so much more when I lived in Atlanta and I lived in the South. And just people, because they refuse to recognize it, they just they don't want to see it. And so it's just like I don't I don't know.


I've never experienced that. It's like, did you ever stop to think that your experience is not the experience of everyone else, especially if you're a white person? Hold me back for my keyboard, you know what I mean? And that's just just because you didn't grow up in that scenario where you realized it was a problem, it tells me you're a bad person, you're a bad person if you don't want to learn and educate and grow from there.


Now, I talked about earlier in the episode, I know anti-Semitism was a problem. I just didn't I mean, I knew about the Holocaust. I didn't grow up in an environment where people hated Jews. And so to just be the kind of person that opens up your eyes and wants to learn from other people is really important. Yeah.


Yeah. Well, Amy, we thank you so much. I hope you continue to talk about the stuff. I just think you're a beautiful writer, speaker person in general. Our audience loves you is obviously one reason why we wanted to bring you back today. So we'll tell people where they can find your your work, your book, your tweets, your Instagram, everything. Yeah. So when you break up the count on my website, I want Instagram amnestying Amy Chen and my book Break Up the Camp.


The Science of Rewiring Your Heart is at all bookstores and writing a review on Amazon.


Well, thank you for doing so. We love you so much. Thank you for all of your words and everything you did.


Thank you.


It's fun and you know where to find us girls. Got a podcast. Dotcom Girl's got a podcast on Instagram. Raina Greenberg Ash has on Instagram Girls in our square. Got it on Twitter and YouTube. Dotcom slash girl's got e tickets for those Florida shows. That girl's got your podcast. Comiso scoop up on them before they're gone. And we'll see you next week.


Thanks, guys. Have a good week. I.