Hello, how's it going? We're back at it once more. You ask me, I was going. Yes, and the world, uh, me, good world, good, maybe, um, I haven't heard anyone say that a long time.
What's this? This is the golden Haughey's we talk about things that came up 50 years ago this week, I was 70 years ago. Your transgressions have not been forgotten. No comment 50 years ago. Hence the golden, it's quite clever and golden anniversary. We could also watch films about 65 years ago, right? Yes, technically.
But who would want to listen to your films? Came out in nineteen fifty five. Yeah, why did you say that so weird?
Well, I was doing the math in my head and I had already worked and I had to I mean, doesn't do well, just getting. I'm just kidding. Well, we we're watching.
This week is a Lifetime film based on a play called I Never Sang for my Father.
That's right. OK, and so normally we start the podcast, my historical context. And I was very rushed today. And as I think about in the park, as far as I've been having to close my computer and I have bought some new RAM, I have not yet installed it. So on the starting off, my computer said there is problems and I had to do it. And actually, while I said I'm just going to start recording my phone as well, just as a backup.
And so wait, give me one second voice recorder. Start. So if the podcast ended up staying here, it means I had problems on my computer and I apologize for the difficulty of me recording on my phone. Um, yeah, you should apologize.
That was Rush and Rach, I've got the room here to eight gigabyte sticks of Corsair Vengeance, LP ex and the best one.
No, I think I think it's that you I had already and I think I just sent it, you know, like it's a straight up replacement. I'm thinking of getting a new computer. And I was I was thinking Christmas. But I think I'll I'll try and keep this one going for this this academic year. And then and then over summer, I mean, I'll see where I end up and I end up doing but I'll probably get a new one then.
And I was very miserable. What will I do with it. Yeah. Are you going with me. Yeah, I probably could do.
I mean, it's having problems but and I was probably just going to have it sitting in a corner and I was thinking about that why I probably should do it. My old one. I should I should work out what parts are still good and fine and use them in a new one to make it even more powerful for less of the cost. But yeah, I can probably give it to you, bro. And we probably, you know, would you would you pay for anything?
And obviously, if if it was still completely fucked, then you wouldn't, but like, you know, well, we can discuss this whole podcast, but yeah, I mean, yeah, OK. I hadn't even thought about giving it to someone else. So so there you go. You might get for a small, small, low cost.
Speaking of broken electronics, my TV fell over this week and I know horrendously, you know, because I've been complaining to you about that a lot.
You know, yeah. No, my, my, my you know, there wasn't like. I know. I mean, it was just a it was just a yeah it was.
But yeah I should have said to, to repair places and they said it wasn't possible to repair the TV whether the screen would be broken, which I think is a bit weird because what else can possibly happen to a TV really.
Well the wiring can go haywire I guess. I know. So yeah I took it to the recycling center in the sky, but it's my take to a good home, you know.
Good home. Yes, yes, yes. That was annoying. But you have to like what? To recycle your electronics like super far.
Yeah, I've got we've got a broken toaster machine and I can just throw it in the bin. But I think it's I think it's big enough that it's definitely a bit of household electronics that should be. Dealt with properly that were properly and boldly and say, yeah, so I was I was very close to buying a new computer, but I'm holding off on it. And and the reason I certainly like better is its historical context. But I don't very much.
It's very rushed and they want to talk for a bit while I looked up what happened on this day in nineteen seventy, you can do I mean, I don't think there is nothing, there's nothing on.
Take me back to you really but but feel free to do so. And the main thing time time had a couple of interesting articles and as I explained every week, I don't have a membership the time so I can actually read the whole articles, I can just read the headlines. But there's an article on product placement in films and which was the take the headline, I believe was You've seen the movie now watch the ad, which was a clever sort of inversion of the euro.
Normally, you know which movie and this was a low end version of that, actually. Clever. And I'm not sure if it's when I'm not sure exactly when product placement started. And the article was written as if it's quite a prevalent thing at this time and quite a new thing at this time from from the first paragraph I could read. So they could be they could be a new thing for us to keep our eye out for. I can't think of any egregious bits of product placement that we've seen so far.
Yeah, I was about to say, I can't think of any of that we've seen. Ah, yeah.
Well, I might just be because we don't really know the brands that were around, but yeah, as much or even if you do know the brands, maybe the locals are more subdued or, or you know, old fashioned and you don't really pick up on it as that's our current cultural sort of codification of, of what brands look like. And that was a good use of words, wasn't it? And anyway, so we should look out for that going forward for product placement, because it sounds like it could be a sort of thing that's happening around this time.
And then the other article that came out was about porn and which was just funny.
Certainly seeing a lot of, uh, kid was I went on the podcast.
Oh, you just I know you're just saying your life.
You'd seen plenty of that and. No, no, you never watch it. And was think about it. Can't wait. Let me go back to here.
They're really talking about it being bad. Well, I think I don't think it was necessarily saying it was bad. It was questioning it. There is some pomoc. Very smart. Good for you. Uh oh. OK, so. Oh, there was a president's commission on obscenity and pornography and the report of the panel's majority gave credit to complain about. So so the majority say so the president had a commission on on it and the majority of those involved, the panel involved, said it was it was a bad thing and it caused crime, delinquency, deviance or emotional disturbance and.
Yeah, not necessarily. We're talking about the strong Nasra. Well, yeah, pretty wrong. So anyway, so that's all I could read. But I assume the article goes on to discuss whether it's good or bad. It's probably an opinion piece. Yeah, that's all I had. Oh. Well, have you looked at what happened, if anything?
Yeah, very little. Egypt was sworn in 50 years ago today, the 17th, which is the recording.
Right. But it's the birth of an 18th. Yeah.
The film here on the 18th. Nothing really happened. There are some famous birthdays.
One actor got married to an actress and either of them, you know, uneventfully as most came when I spoke Kafi with Witwer, won the PGA Quality Check, the golf classic.
And we're we're grateful to her. Yeah.
And such you can you guess begins two thousand two hundred fifteen Conde's game streak for Hiroshima Cark. What do you know that is Hiroshima Karpe. I know. Oh it's a bit. Oh I do know the Hiroshima carped baseball team. I do know them because they've got really they've got really cute logos like a kid with a baseball bat, which doesn't look very frightening, you know, in any way. But it's quite funny. And some of the some of the Japanese baseball teams are quite well named that I think a lot of Japanese sports teams have good names because the is not quite there or there.
Maybe maybe it's not so much translation, but the cultural, um, you know, signifiers a different language and yeah, I'm one. So I'm just adjusting to make I'm sure that sounded great. As you know, this is a giants. Tigers. Dragons. Yeah. Amy Chiappe actually looking at it in the Nipon professional baseball actually it looks like the coffee really the main. I mean, one, they're weird, they're the base stars, fighters, buffaloes, yeah, actually, just the carp.
Anyway, I appreciate that. So, so good for him. He started some kind of streak or something. They all all the more important things are sports. I mean, I can't say I care about.
Yeah, well, I remember when I tried to talk about boxing last week in the film, that book about boxing, you were getting very bored. Yeah. Yeah. So, OK, so I should something about Japanese sports is what you're saying.
I think it's interesting because it's tricky.
I think it's interesting. I find Japanese sports very interesting anyway, because the film the film is I never sang with my father. Um, would you like to do your plot summary?
And so, as I say, this is based on a play which I feel is important to talk about because it's very much not got much of a plot. It's really more about dialogue between, say, four important characters I think would be the highest you could say.
Well, I would say I would say the son. The mother, the father, sister, mother. Yeah, the son, the mother, father, sister. But then also his wife and his lover. Kind of important.
They only have one scene each. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I mean, the scenes are important but yeah. I know what you mean. It's not, it's not so yeah. It's all about family. We should say it first. It's about family specific, the father son relationship. But what about family. And yet the mother, father, sister and son are really the. Like I say, mother, probably really just the three of them, but it's so our star is Jim.
He is a middle aged man. His wife has died about a year ago, we find, and he plays Jean. Jean is played by Gene Hackman.
Very cool thing and plays where they don't really bother to name characters of different things.
Hello, is he called Gene into play? I'm going to guess walking away, but I might be wrong anyway. And Gene Hackman, as Gene Hackman has been in a few films, gone. So, yes, he's quite a famous actor.
Yeah, well, normally we talk about films, Sleeping and Jimmy. Would you like to talk about Gene Simmons, who played it in the book? Yeah, he was in French Connection, which have not seen. He was in Bonnie and Clyde, which I have seen alongside Estelle Parsons, who will come until later. And he was in Superman and he was in The Poseidon Adventure. Have you seen The Poseidon Adventure, Jamie?
I have never seen The Poseidon Adventure, although it is very famous not I'm not in the French Connection. So.
Right. I've seen The Poseidon Adventure and Bonnie and Clyde, but no, not the other two films I mentioned. I have not seen Superman or French Connection. Adventure is very good. It's a very kind of a I don't want to say campy, but kind of campy. Like disaster film and I love disaster films, it is one of my favorite genres.
I remember telling The Poseidon Adventure that very much freaked her out when she was a younger, younger laughs.
Yeah, it's pretty scary stuff. They did a remake of the in 2005.
So they each other and Poseidon Adventure. And I remember um.
No, I remember of but I wish a long time ago. And so they could do or maybe they come across another group that has eaten each other because they can they walk around the ship. I don't think they each other though because I think. I mean, I think I don't think the time period is long enough because it's a ship capsizes, so like, yeah, it's all upside down, right? Yeah. So like, how long could they really.
You know, take you take to each other anyway, and that was a that was a bigger side than than planned. But as Gene Hackman, who plays Gene and Jimmy, is going to seamlessly switch back into his.
All right. Gene lives in the same town as his parents do, as many do.
New York, where he lives in New York and he lives outside New York. So so it's the same area. I'll be able and pick up later with New York. I just knew he was down on the East Coast, but I moved to New York. Yeah, well, small town.
Small town in New York. Yeah, Miles. Not as big as regular York. And you would expect to be with you. Anyway, his parents live outside of town. We see him meet them at the airport and, you know, we find that his mother has been having seizures recently. So our health is very much in question, but he helps his mom and dad get back to the house. We get a feeling for his day now, particularly with the father, which I feel personally is very well observed.
There's a there's father sizes a very casually, but there's my sense of it sort of being their natural rhythm. I felt I wasn't it didn't come off as necessarily mean to me in the way that it might sound. When I say speaking it, it's more just the way they act around each other. It was quite true to life in a way. I would say. I don't know how you feel that the mother's dialogue on the other hand, I what was quite.
Well, this didn't feel quite as well observed. Yes, she's she's she's very much in just in the it seems like a placeholder or not. So she's very generic, right? Yeah.
She just feels a bit like a cipher in that she's just kind of generically shows affection for, know, his father, but doesn't really. Yeah, not in a very interesting way or anything. Just very straightforwardly. It's not much like personal character to her. And she and her husband bicker in a way that sort of feels a bit closer to the war was quite well.
And I would say, yeah, I think it I think it was I didn't really notice her dialogue being not great.
But I think in contrast to the relationship between the father and son, which I think is very well observed, I think it shows a weakness. And so he helps me and I at home see then out with them. We see that Jean is wanting to move to California so that he can marry a girl. He's not called Peggy. And his father says if he goes, then we'll be beside herself. She won't be able to survive it, but he does tell her and she's totally fine with it.
And so it's really just this father like trying to tell them that he wouldn't be really having the courage to do so directly at this point. You can go home and then we find that the mother has died thought and the father seems mostly unconcerned or she's not she's not dying.
She's dying. Dying, I can say.
And his father was like, we should go to lunch. But Jean's very annoyed that not really taking her death seriously. Yeah, so, you know, so you want to stay in the hospital and eat in the canteen in case anything happens. And that goes, oh, she'll be fine on her own for a few hours and go. I don't I don't think.
Does she do that at the club? I don't believe so and I don't think so. But I would be I mean, I would be there. That was kind of what I was expecting.
But I should say, because I forgot to mention that after he leaves his house, their house for the first time, Jane goes and spends the night with a lover of his home and they have a little scene together where he mostly just complains about his father.
Yeah. And then she's gone. You know, she was there. She made her mark. Yeah, I think I think she's really mostly there. You have someone to discuss his feelings, his father for where he's clearly, deeply, deeply frustrated by him. Yeah. I think I don't know if he uses the word hate in that conversation, but he's clearly, deeply, deeply, you know, I think he does.
He said that he hates him, but he hates that he hates him or something like that.
Yeah, exactly. Well, it's that sort of tension where, like, you know, he didn't like his father, but, you know, he feels he should.
Yeah, both. Well, his dad's father walked out on the family.
Yes. Fortune was born. The sort of characterisation of the father. Yeah, the father had a very tough childhood, but so his father walked out on his mother died very young. Yeah. In accordance with the American dream. He made a fortune and he became the mayor and the head of the school board. And, you know, so he's very much self-reliant. He preaches self-reliance a lot. He's very proud of having to rely on anyone all his life to be sad about his childhood.
And he talks about that quite often. I suppose I should just get rid of it and talk about characters for them. Yeah. And so they have the funeral Jean's sister Alice arrives for she has been kicked. She was kicked out by their father for marrying a Jewish man. Yeah. So she has a different attitude than Jean does, but they talk and converse about their various feelings about the father. And at this point, they discuss what they're going to do with him because they don't know what he can't relax in the house because he's all in his mind seems to be at least somewhat damning.
And so they also just having a live in housekeeper. But Jean's a bit reticent because he knows that he's never the father will never, ever agree to that. Yeah, but they, you know, side she they confront the father about it and he says you'll never, ever accept this. And all his life, those genes will be their stay anyway. So it'll all be fine. And Gene doesn't quite work up the courage to tell them that he won't.
Instead sort of folds in on himself and says he'll be willing to stay to look after him. Mm hmm. At this point, Alice gets fed up with Jeanne because he says he's never really been able to stand up to their father and destroying his happiness. And she leaves. And so he takes a trip to an old folks home to see if there's any possibility that that could work for his father, but it's a horrifying experience for him and he realizes that can never work.
And he goes back to the house, Peggies there they meet the father and the family well. I was very charmed by Peggy and they seem to agree. Well, Peggy offers to move her entire family over to New York in order to let them lose father. But you said that that would be ridiculous. So then they have he and his father go their bedroom, and so they have a very deep conversation all about his childhood, where he discusses with vulnerability his feelings towards his own father.
Yeah, and his mother. And Jean begins to see shades of himself in his father's relationship with his father, sort of generational trauma, as they call it. Yeah, I'm so moved by this particular display of emotional emptiness. Jean offers to have his father moved back to California, but his father absolutely refuses to do this and get into a massive argument where father decides that Jean Keene is an ungrateful wretch. Jean declares that he never loves his father.
The father says that Jean can declare him dead from now on. And then Jean leaves the house and he says in Passover that an epilogue and he only spoke to his father a couple more times after that father died.
Well, no, he didn't say that. It says that they visit each other a few times. Yes, that's what I'm saying. A couple more times after that.
Yeah, but it wasn't like they went and visited each other. Yes. Throughout the years. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What were your thoughts? I thought it was great. I also liked it. What was that like?
Well, I mean, my overall impression of it. Remember when we walked out of towners and I said it felt it felt too real and it was it was bad because of that? Mm hmm. Well, this one was great because it felt real. Yeah. I don't know if you feel the same way, am I? Yeah.
Yeah, it was good. It was a very well observed look between the relationship between the characters. I think it's very I think when we're watching the Great White Hope, last week we were talking about how that plays. Dialogue isn't very good. It was very effective. Contrast to this dialogue is fantastic, as always. And it's always a very emotionally charged situation between people who have very complicated feelings for each other, all perhaps unrealistically perceptive and expressive about those feelings are also always lying to each other and to themselves, at least some.
I think part of me wonders if maybe just the key to having good dialogue is just to have people not tell the truth is that way or always at least engaged in trying to figure out whether, yeah. Your angles that were interesting. Interesting thought, yeah, so should we will work from the most important and work our way down? What do you think of the relationship between Jesus and his father? Duduk mutualistic? Futuristically, yes, just I mean, that's what the core of the film is, and it's quite hard to talk about individual moments, so that's really true.
I thought it was great. Yeah, it's really real. And I think I mean, I think everyone has a father to some extent properly and. Yeah, I don't really I don't really know how to. Put into words, just highlight reel, the film feels and how accurate feels and how it makes you as a viewer, think about your own relationships with your family and your relationship to people you know and other people's relationships with their fathers that you've observed and all this kind of stuff.
And it really captures the the essence of that father son relationship.
I think, you know, I think particularly for an adult, like, it's quite good at conveying the sort of tragic element of relationships as people get older, where as people come to learn, their friends begin to die, they become lonely and lonely and they need you more. Yeah, and that obviously creates a great deal of emotional pressure that you have to deal with, particularly when they're living their lives. Yet because Gene's father did some quite terrible things to him, not terrible, like it's clearly out of line throughout the film was very persistently show.
And it just is a deeply lonely man who just desperately needs he wants something of his life, but he just also needs to possess and as they were to deal with the fact that he can be the number one priority for Gene. Yeah, because Gene is his number one priority now, it would be fair to say.
But no, a good way. Reciprocity. Yes, possessiveness. Yeah. Also, just the sadness that you do see in older people is just like. All right, not to be too dark, but like everyone, they know that they have been where I am and it's just not something I do.
I don't even know if that's really the only really even really know if that's necessarily the thing. I mean, he's got these friends at the club and stuff that he's like, I haven't seen you for ages.
I mean, things that you mentioned, those windows are dead. Well, yeah. I mean, obviously mostly. Well, I don't think it's a there's literally no one else. I think it's it's I guess he's the easy person to go to is your child because, you know, there's a lot of stuff there.
Yeah, well, I was trying to suggest that I think there's a loneliness to communicate. I'm maybe trying to put that down, but I tend to exaggerate when it's a little softer than that. Yeah. I think also like obviously have regrets that one feels towards the end of one's life as well, I think.
Yeah. The father really likes to not pretend, he wants to suggest that he and you have a close relationship growing up and that never really existed.
Yeah exactly. And that sort of thing did. I mean he also has memory problems as well.
Yes. I think we're beginning stages of Alzheimer's. Exactly. Yeah. Which which kind of adds to that. Not being fully aware of the relationships.
I think I think individuals not purposely I think even if he was completely lost, that he would still be misrepresenting that relationship. Yeah, I think so. In his mind, having sort of turn things over to be more supportive towards him, I think he genuinely does believe that he in the workplace or at least, um. Yeah. But like, that just wasn't true just the way so that the memories in his head. Yeah. As we all did.
Because we're all constantly lying to ourselves obviously of. That's true to say before the way the mother's death was handled, it was quite good for the father as well. I think it was an interesting sort of thing not to keep talking. What do I think? As people get older, they do start to respond to that in a different way. I think it's interesting that the father sort of doesn't really read for the mother explicitly until very, very late in the film.
I mean, just Fuchs's I don't think it's even selfish. You just focus on how this has impacted his life, like holistically, as it were. He thinks a lot about his mother and how she died. And so. Oh, yeah, there's there's a bit when they go down, they go to the funeral home to look at coffins and he said he sees when he goes, oh, this would have been the perfect size for my mother and then starts talking about her instead of the fact that his wife's dead and that's who they're looking for, the coffin for which I think is, you know, they get so, yeah, she gets very annoyed by.
For the father isn't talking about the mother directly. I don't think he's really able because he's clearly not the sort of person who is able to be emotionally vulnerable.
No, I mean, he's almost never gone to the very end of the film and.
Yes, but that completely involuntary, he does break down crying over his wife, very clear that that's not something he wanted to do. And I suppose in terms of like deflection as to defiance, I think more about his mother and two that are more the impact that she's had on him. And I suppose she's a sort of selfish way to grieve us also, for one. Yeah, I think so, yes. OK, yes. Anything else you want to add about Gene and the father?
No, not really. We talk about Gene, actually. I suppose from his perspective, though, genes obviously very much passed in the situation. I think a lot of people are where he's as we say, he really wants to like his father, but he just isn't able to. And, of course, you know, societal pressure, you ought to just like your family. It's tough, isn't it? I do like my Catholic. If there wasn't like me doing a veiled reference to myself, kind of sounds like it was over.
Yeah. I realize this is just something you want to talk about on on out on the Internet.
But like Gene, sister observes that he spent his entire life really seeking approval from his father because he was never able to act as a child. So he's always sort of curious that his father would probably feel that part of the problem, such as joining the Marines. Yeah, he's never left the city, partially because at least she feels about this father. But genes finds his father very well, what he finds and frustrating and finds fathers always infantilizing him and sort of unable to acknowledge that he is an imposter of his own priorities.
Well, I think also it is very clear that he does also want to be close to his father.
And, yeah, I think he does definitely. I think one of the sort of ironies, I suppose, of the whole thing is that both his father do want to be closer to each other. It's just that with the way the father expresses that and what he wants of what we want, what the nastier aspects of what his father wants sort of get in the way of life. Well, I think the issue with this film, not the issue that's on the issue with these characters, that they can really be emotionally vulnerable with each other.
As we talked about before, I think the father would be happy so long as you just knew that he really did know that Jean loved them. But you just can't accept that in any form other than possession of Ottoway.
Yeah. And that sort of creates the issue, the issue. Yeah, OK, Alice, I guess we should also talk about the Alice Dean sister. Yeah, she was kicked out by the father for running a Jewish man and therefore has reason to resent him. Yeah, I think Alice is quite an interesting character. She does it to task in a way that is probably why I cried saying that he needs to start loving for himself more. Yeah.
I think also we see the way she's rationalized her father's rejection, which I think is very interesting in that she's decided what her father told her is like, you can't trust anyone in the world. And she feels and she says that this has made her tougher and that she can now survive. And it's quite a sad scene. So you could tell even what she's saying that she doesn't really deep down believe that's true. Yeah, it's sort of post party.
She's pretending that she's thankful to him. And really, brother, he should love. I mean, like. She yeah, like the effect of her father's, like rejection has left her with this deeply cold and tragic world view.
And I mean, we will find out later on that he actually never wanted kids and then she was the first. So there could be an element there.
I think possibly that explains that would apply to both of them. But aren't that different?
And they seem like I think know it's true, but I still think it would be your first. I mean, you can imagine if you didn't really want kids. I mean, he seems like a guy who would want to boy, you know, so he doesn't really want kids anyway. And then, you know, little girl points out then maybe. Yeah, yeah, um, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, does she does she talk about how he treated her in childhood at all?
No, I don't think he does not really know, I think she just mostly leaves it to obviously the most significant.
Yes, she does say that he beat Jean, although whether that's bad beating or just normal.
I think it's I don't think it would be seen as as tragic as I would say if someone might be there.
But it would still be like, you know, but there's a big difference between physical punishment and actually beating.
You know, I think it was supposed to be like not like you ever punched or anything more like, you know, like he would like slap him or like a switch or whatever. I mean, yeah, like I think it's not so much supposed to be like he abused you. It's more like just, you know, he was there for you guys aren't.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you're right. Yeah, yeah, yes, I think Alice is like the rejection of Alice as at least in some way destroyed her emotionally. But Alice, to her credit, does genuinely make and I think he does come to the funeral with their mother. But I think also, at least somewhat for the father, I think she does genuinely try to act with a vested interest, is willing to be a little harsher than she does.
Yeah, I mean, that's a big difference to the effort of guessing or trying to persuade him to get the housekeeper and stuff like that, which are genuinely hated.
No, she doesn't him she really cares about him, but she knows that he will never that he already does not like her. So she's able to, you know, be the harsh things.
You expect that she is much freer than Gina. Exactly. Partially because, like, their bottom was already irreparably severed, like. Yeah. Years ago. I mean, I think I suppose it's sort of it's sort of parallel to genes in the way that in both cases, it's like the idea that the the progeny would make a decision with and the father's vision for their lives is unacceptable. And the fact that he would be willing to cut off from his daughter entirely simply because she married someone Jewish like.
A clear like indicator of his personality and might be issues he has with possessiveness and being unable to accept his children as separate thinking entities that are destroying his relationship with you.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm. Um, yeah. Right. Uh, is there anything else you would say particular talking about like characters and character relationships.
Let me have a look at my notes here. Oh, I'm sorry. I mean I think you said it, but the the dad really acts like he's still a child, which. Yeah. You know, like he gives them the directions all the time and he complains, oh yeah. Sorry. Yeah. It's like a child. Yeah.
Well I feel like that's that's what I was saying. Like that was the rhythm. Like I feel like it's so clear that it's the dynamics exist between.
Yeah it's exactly that's I mean there's there's a sense there's been no change since he was a child, which I think is quite common, probably actually when I think of it. When I think about it. Um. Jean, the sister, did, uh. Oh, yeah, I don't know if he said it, but there's there's a there's a sort of reverse of the thing where Gene. Really, I mean, it does see, I think how say this and Jean says that he's very upset seeing his dad become, you know, less mentally able and less physically able and, you know, all this kind of stuff.
Are you there? Oh, my script is so cool and I was really worried that the whole thing had been lost and yeah, so and that's that's the point where the sister says we don't like him and, you know, you hate him. He beat you in this kind of thing. And Jean's argument is, yeah, he didn't like him, but he still. Looked up to him in a way, just because he was so formative and so distinguished and so, oh, you know, he uses all these adjectives and notes, really, Jean finds it really sad, even though he didn't go with him to see such a great man become this sort of shell of its former self.
And that's that's a lot that's why a lot of his sympathy comes from where he's not willing to move to California and he's not willing to do this and he doesn't want to do this and do that, which I think is interesting. I think I think you do see that people, even people that, you know, there's a lot of different father son relationships out there. And I think I do think this film is a really good example of one.
But there's a lot of nuances, obviously, in individuals can be it depends on two individuals. But I think that's probably a very common thing where you always look up to your dad in some way. You know, even if you don't get along with them or even if they did things to you, that there's some element for up to them. And I think it can be very it can be very sad to see any old person kind of lose that.
You know, you think it seemed like the leader or, you know, a prime minister or something getting old. And I mean, you don't really see that. I don't know why I said it, but, yeah, it's very sad.
And I think that is one of the great tragedies of aging generals. Like, I don't know, they just feel like things are becoming a shadow of themselves politically. It's true.
I mean, Dean says Dean says to his wife that he wants he wants he wants them to die young. He says a joke, but be a part of the debate he doesn't want when once you get married, he doesn't want their marriage to become stale and then sorry, unique make experiences. But I think another part of that is just personally, you know, to lose yourself is really I mean, something that a lot of old people struggle with anyway.
I think it's very natural, particularly given what we've been doing last week or so. Like he's obviously like scared of old age as we all are. Yeah. I take about at least in a safe way, as it were, going back to what you were saying about the sort of authority figure, I think just probably a good point to bring it up. I think there's a very there's a very gender essentialist vein in the film. And I was wondering if you thought that that was something the film supported or the characters.
I feel there's a very well thought, very sort of gender essentialist sort of gire essentially.
Does that mean like because you're a man, you have to act this way because you're a woman that way, right? Yes.
Very much rationalises his emotions by saying, like, I'm a man. So I have to, like Fifield's men do these things. I think the father was the same. The sister, for example, of this thing was like, you want you wanted a mother or father, but he's a father. Supposed to be.
Yeah, exactly. I don't think so. I think that I don't I say I wouldn't say Gene necessarily fits in with our sister. I think I think it's really that the dad that comes from that era and because he's projecting such a sort of stereotypical masculine image, then for Gene, he kind of wants. But when you see the way that Gene talks to mean, you see the way Gene talks to both Peggy and wherever they are, the other girl was called.
And when you see the way he talks to them, he's actually very open and very and what's the other word? Emotionally available and stuff, which I think kind of yeah, it kind of shows this generational gap. And I do think he still says that he wants to be strong and stuff, and I think he does fall back on.
I think you really has these expectations for him. So he does. But but to a much lesser extent than his father. I think really his father is the one. And the whole reason that Gene has that is because his father very much wholesome and has instilled them in him.
Yeah, I think that's fair. I think particularly in the case of the sister, I think was very much a case where like because they can't really seriously rationalize the relationship with their father. So fall back on these gender stereotypes and sort of an excuse. Yes. Could Mike explain why the sister, like in particular is like sort of like just assumes that like only the mother can be like a loving relative and like, that's the that's the reason, you know, it's genes shouldn't be looking for affection from his father.
Obviously completely fucked up world view. Again, it's just sort of the way she's had to rationalize her own pain. And and then the other side, Gene, discusses how he's a man to fulfill emotional obligations. He already, I think in particular is right. And just this is him why he feels he should take care of his father and why he says like it's built on a man. That's my job to take care of him. I like even if we live like a gentleman's world, I think it's very clear that he would do so anyway.
Yeah, because I think it's it all I think it's because he and his father do love each other, but it's just that they can't they can't show it in a way, I'm sure. And therefore I'm a very skewed idea of what love is. Yeah. I'm like have a good reference point for a lot of fathers.
I want to know what. Jamie, there we are. And I want you to show me. Yeah, supposedly would love is an obvious connection and articulated, yet it's not a zero sum of genes. All difficulties come from the fact that he never had a loving father. So he just doesn't get what a father son relationship should be. So he's rationalized it, not rationalized that he's perceived as this idea of like possessing a swan song because he just doesn't have a reference point for the healthy version would be.
And that's sort of like the idea that you inherit your parents trauma, but you'll never fully understand it.
Yes. Right, right. Is there any more character or dramatic stuff want to discuss?
Let me look. Um. Probably not. OK, so moving on to like vegetables and stuff, because I felt this was worth talking about. I think it would say that visually it was fairly flat with a couple of ways. I think so the are eyes to end the scene with something that was visually interesting. Yeah, but it's mostly quite flat and functional. The one exception to this is the scene where Jean goes to the old folks home, which I really didn't really did not work for me personally.
So what happens is the old folks home and they look around all the old people and it's like, does this look like a lawnmower or a film?
Like, I like to be actually intercut with scenes of his father was more ambitious, but for me, it just didn't quite land like it just felt a bit too choppy and a bit too amateurish to really work. I think would have been like more of like a visual run in between, like the cops were just a little too harsh to really want with me.
And in that scene, yeah, just like between the father and the patients, like, yeah, I can morph together into sort of crescendo sort of thing, but like, I just it felt this little little too after. I think the other thing was that, like, it was trying to like show these old people is really horrible, but like, why good.
Well, I don't know if it, I don't think I can show them is horrible. I think it was it was, it was all in wheelchairs and I mean it just links to the thing I was saying. But he dismisses that as not his dad. And if I do, they're all in wheelchairs and they're all chatting and saying about and his nurses pushing around and stuff, he he cannot imagine his dad in that position. And I think I mean, I think that yeah, I thought for me that scene worked well with the audio visual cues.
And it was very much like a horror film thriller film. And it was it was so different in tone from the rest of the film. I actually, for one for that worked.
The music was too harsh. But like I think that the second half of that scene where the music comes down and he sort of walks out of it and the like, well, I was walking to the car, the reflections of the old boats and like how it's going to start being my fault was really.
Hmm, I, I fell down much too fast, I think. OK, interesting. I find the whole thing a nice break from the play the play element, because I think I mean, I think this film is great and you can really tell it's a play in all cases. It's people, it's very few characters and a lot of it takes place in the house. There's a couple of things outside the house. They can have a lot of conversations and stuff.
And I do think, you know, if you compare it to last week, I think it works infinitely better this week. And, you know, I was engaged the whole time, even though it was more like a film, like if you been in and play before this, I for this part of the film, worked really well. It's like a break from that. That. Yeah, well, it's definitely, um, there's also I think the music choices are really quite terrible overall.
There's a scene in the beginning which has really sad music playing, but like it's just overstating the emotions of the was just coming off as a bit odd. I mean, I can't remember that.
No, I have to admit that apart from the hospital scene, I don't remember any of the music.
I think it was only like two scenes of music. Really. Yeah. That off. OK, so I suppose like audio visual. I would say it does. All right. Well, I think it's quite that I would say I mean, I wouldn't say it was bad.
Just yeah. I say the soundtrack is bad. I would say the visuals are mostly functional with one experiment I felt in my work, OK.
Yeah, interesting. Um, yeah, I mean, I what's about any final thoughts? All right, let me have a look at my two full pages of notes here. But I mean, not that they're particularly. Particularly a new stuff, um.
There's there's an expectation from him that his kids owe him a lot. Yes.
Which I believe will be told today, but then there's a bit where the sister says, I don't expect anything from my kids when they grow up. I'm not doing it for them. You know, I'm doing it for me.
And I think the fact that his father walked out on him and he had to work from such a young age, he probably in his head, he thinks his kids should be really grateful that he had a normal childhood when in reality, you know, I mean, geneology says it to him, you know, he says that had a bad childhood, but there's nothing you can do about it. And it's it's absolutely ludicrous to expect for the dad to expect Jeanne or his sister to give up everything, just look after him.
And just because he had to when he was a kid, you know, the two things don't really line up and which I think is I think is another probably a very common thing for people is, you know, the the yeah, I find that very and Ofakim was the word very recognizable and. So what's the word when when you get something well observed, I guess, no, not really little. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, I think both Jean and his father see the relationship and the relationship, I think they in very transactional terms.
Yeah, I think that especially that the white aspect of their relationship with unconditional Jeanne does feel that he owes his father something. Although as much clearer than the father, the father will articulate a lot more. But I think also, I suppose the idea of his father being a businessman as well, having made his way in the trade, I suppose also might encourage him to look at relationships in that way, because that's all he's ever really known.
And that's a that's a very Marxist reading.
This film is. But that's the only way to read films maybe destroys us and each other. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just I just call the shots like I see in the name of the film, name of the film is very good and I never sang for my father. So that's revealed. Oh, yeah, that's a great scene, so it's revealed later on that the name is is that his dad could hear him doing seeing practice of his mum and then would come down and ask him to sing a song and he would never sing it and.
There's a lot of regret from him that he never sang, I think, which is that scene was just so powerful to me and it made me really think it was a good one.
But like, not a lot of them, just like the scene where they were genuinely curious about the one sort of expressed in of. Yeah, yeah, so he was pretty obvious, were like, yeah, was a film, but I found it quite emotionally involved and interesting. Yeah, I like films about dialogue and characters. They are generally quite good.
I, I like them if they're good. I think a lot of them are very bad. Yeah. I think it's very hard to do. Yeah I. Yeah I see. Yeah. That's, I agree with you but I want to put the caveat that I only like very few of them because it's so hard to do. But when it's done well it's great. What are you going to read it Jamie.
I was going to go buy it.
I'm curious as to yours and I'm going to give it a Criterion Collection five, baby.
Oh, wow. I was interested to see if this was why the barrier would be broken for you.
So would you come for me right into the kitchen collection? I'm in. I'm in.
And there was saying if I fell into the Criterion place and this is the best film we've watched so far, I think honestly, I would not I would think I would definitely rank it up there.
But I mean, you rank it by it, which is which is just one below that.
I mean, that's how I would say the top five quite easily. And this is this is a point where I look at what we've watched for and sort of confirmed the. Three. This one here, I think I do. Yeah, I mean, this is a twenty first episode, by the way. Which is which is how old I am, yes, as of two weeks ago. So how old you are?
So but that's not so, um, I guess. Yeah. No, yeah. OK, this is definitely the best form of communication. I'm doing it. Yeah.
I would say that this will come for me and five easy pieces are the only films which like we've done so far that I could imagine myself like actively recommending to people I know they I would recommend to Tortora and.
I would recommend. That's probably it, to be honest. Yeah, yeah, I think I would I think that, yeah, this this film, I would definitely recommend people and probably tortured her. I'd recommend it.
Oh I love for five easy. No, no. I have seen no, I mean five, six now.
I think what it was was similarly about a family relationship in many ways. And I don't think it did it anywhere near as well as this one.
This one really hit home for me and it was great. I was I almost cried, but I didn't quite. I was very close to it and was very few films I cried to, so. It's a very, very strong feeling, have cried, I cried, I cried to Eddie the Eagle. Mm hmm. I cried at Dunkirk. That's the only two I can think of out of my head, I cried out, so I think and this one was very close.
So they go by crying from quite a lot. Really? Remember a little bitch. You're joking. I'm joking. It's good to cry. Yes. Men men should cry more often.
The last time I fired up, I was watching the Symphonia finale when they all teamed up together for one big super punch against the God. So just so you know how low the barrier is, right.
OK, if you're if you're if you're a man listening to this cry.
Watch this film and cry and then want you to forget and cry. It's good for you all for. It's good for you.
Five seasons and an encore because you've had to watch so much of whatever that is. And I've actually watched two films between when I watch this and the day of recording. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I watched one for my course, which was called Primate's, but I was detained and it's a documentary film. Oh fuck. I just hope and pray. And that's not going to work is it. Permeates film forecasts. I'm going to walk you there at 1970.
For. Primate, 1974 by Frederick Wiseman I it's it's it's a documentary, and it's not many interviews, a voiceover, it's mostly just video is in its a primate research center in the US and it just well it just looks at what's going on basically. And it's quite interesting. And there is, there's a lot of ejaculation of monkeys. And the the way the scientists talk about it I find quite funny. They talk about how they're going to get the best erection out of monkey, how are we going to get the best ejaculation?
And it was yeah. And there's a bit of humor in it. It's good. It's a very it's a pretty good film. And I watched, um, Goodfellas last night.
You see that before I said no, no, I had not seen it before. What did you think it was? It was good. I don't like it, wasn't I? Not sure if it lived up to the hype, I, I was expecting a baby. It's very good.
I don't have great Goodfellows on the same level. Like, I think The Godfather is better. I don't mind if we do. I don't know. The Irishman is better necessarily, but I maybe like the Irishman more. It was very good. It was very good film and.
This may be due to. As you what sorry you got there, yeah, you did, too, I was saying I didn't like it as much like Taxi Driver.
Um, no, that's true. I forgot about the taxi driver, I think is better so. But I did think it was very good and. Yeah. Right. Yeah. All right. Um, well, I watched Apocalypse Now the night before I watched this film I'm talking about as well. I watched that before. No, really. Yeah, really.
I was thinking it for the first time.
Well, I wish I watched Apocalypse Now Redux. Have you seen that? Oh, is that the director's cut? Kind of like ruins that or so it's got forty nine extra minutes of footage in it on an. I thought it was really good and it was a great film. Very good film. I would retake Criterion Collection probably. Maybe. Oh yeah, probably. It was really good and great. That's why I watch and I don't think I played anything.
If we're going to do our work. We got some played section at the end. Yeah.
So I don't believe I've watched anything of note last time. I've been a busy bee films. I watched avidly in Paris, which is an awful, awful TV show about a young Instagram, or he goes to Paris to work for a French firm. Right. And it's just a bunch of stereotypes and talks about the crime and it destroyed my soul.
Why did you watch that for the heat watch. It's funny, right?
Does a group not work for you as a group? OK, ok. OK, fair enough. Right. I thought you were your own watching for the Instagram and it's like right now it's a TV show second.
Oh you can watch the second series when it comes out with awesome in terms of games.
I just bought Hades and the switched the hot new route like everyone's talking about. Right, because I found this again for the hype as I keep doing I should start doing because I own too many games. I never play any of them. Yeah, it's really fun. It's a good road. Like the combat feels nice. There's a lot of dialogue like really really matters. It response like basically everything you do in ways that are cool and fun. I've always felt the quality of the portfolio do, everyone does.
And it's always nice to talk about that stuff. I can't wait to play more of it. I wish I was playing it right now.
Well, you will be shortly. You all will be doing cool. And Space Crew came out recently and I'm probably going to get it. It's a sequel to Mercury, which is one of my favorite games of all time. What we've seen out. Oh, Space Crew came out the other day. OK, can you hear me? OK, we're back. I was about to talk about Space Group. I've not played it yet, so I'll talk about it next week if I get to play it and the audio.
OK, so we're just going to say bye and hello next week we shoot Jamie shoot.
Get this episode up to an hour, which involves like ten Mercedes up to an hour. OK, so you're going to talk about what we're doing next week anyway. So what are we doing next week?
Yeah, next week and next week we are doing Husbands, which is a comedy drama. That's about it. That was up by Director of the Dirty Dozen that was on Take Me Back. So. So it must be good. I'm OK. Well, thanks everyone for listening. Jamie is going to go play that game, which is probably why he wants to finish now. And yes, we will. We will see you next week. You've worked.
Yeah, that's how life works. All right, mate. All right, Byron Bay.