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Hello there, my good friend. Hello. I'm Terry. Mediocre at best, what is this right?


This is a Turkish podcast where we watch films like 70 years ago today, 50 50, those two weeks now we watch films that came out in 1970, which is 50 yesterday.


And why? Why? By citing that, you know, and I'm using it. It's quite worrying. I'm using a different headset today and on my laptop. Can you tell the difference? Yes. Your voice is very, very. Right. That's not so good, is it? It's not so good, it's actually quite disgraceful. Is it? Is it very bad? We'll live. We will have it for the audience. Yes.


I'm sure all all of them will be very upset. But you know what?


And that's the way I mean, I can I can move to my computer if it's essentially bad, but it'll be fine.


OK. I listen to an episode of the Off, my new podcast, We've Got One, he clearly did it on Skype without a headset on. And, you know, while I listen to that, just fine. OK, so but we have many listeners deeply here. Cool. All right, fine. But, I mean, I can listen to it. And then as long as it's not so awful that this is going to unreleasable, if it's if it's bad from editing it, I can change back my computer.


I've been having some problems on my computer, so I the record my laptop for change, but it's a different headset, so. It's always nice to have a change of personalities, I think. I think it also mutes you when you're not talking, which is very strange. Yes, it's very irritating because my older one, I can kind of hear myself in the corner in the background, that I can also just hear your background noise, which is quite comforting.


But this one I can't hear anything apart from I can't even hear myself talking in this one. So now I can't do it with me.


It's very upsetting. Yeah.


Because my other one it's my own voice back into my head a little bit. Just a tiny bit. Just enough to know that. Anyway, that's that's that's the the two and a half minute mark before we say what film we're talking about. So I'm just going to extend this two and a half minutes. Just got one second left. What can we talk about this week, Jamie? It's very worrying that you left it that long, because my timeline is quite far ahead of you, but this week we're talking about the Great White Hope, which is a boxing film starring James Earl Jones as a young man.


Yeah, he plays Jack Jackson based on Jack Johnson. I thought unless Jack. Oh, no, that's right. Who is James Earl Jones, Jimmy? Yeah, no doubt. Me again is James Earl Jones. He's a very famous American actor. He's probably most famous father. He owns the place of his father. But other than that, he's done a lot of other things in the service. He's done Matawan Coming to America, Field of Dreams, The Hunt for Red October.


And he's played the strange version of Driving Miss Daisy in Australia, everyone's favorite play, chasing.


Did you see that voice? Mo Farah, the runner. No, he voiced Maphosa the line, the cartoon, like it sounded like you said Mo Farah.


Yes, but that's not what I said.


And are we talking about the original Lincoln or the original Lion King? Yes.


Oh, I thought he was in the most recent one. I think it is in the remake as well as in the past. I think it will be interesting. Such was the respect I did. I did see that he was in The Lion King, too.


And so. Oh, symbols, pride. Yes, and it's pride. Anyway, he's in his arms to make it so, yeah, I mean, yeah, he was in the stage version and then a nice move. They let them keep their parts in the film adaptation, which doesn't always happen. So, you know, good friend.


Yeah. This film, this film was on take back to you.


The website that we get our circumflex from was kind of interesting because there's information about this film online. It's not much of a presence. You know, you're right.


It's hard to find stuff about it. And yet, for some reason, unlike pretty much every other film, this one is going to by the you. I think we've only had one or two other ones that have been on TV, but on the week we're talking about it. So it's interesting. This came out in Victoria. Yeah. Which is the state of listening for if you're I mean, she never listens as this comes out. Yeah. I'd be pretty offended if anyone I mean, if you if you're listening to this on the day comes as it comes out, fuck you.


Yeah, kill yourself. Well, I mean, I was not going to go that far, but but just just keep bringing out there just the same.


That's the attitude I hope the contempt I hold towards you and you love me. Even that sounds. Jimmy. The watching Jimmy. Are you there? Yes, see, you just let minute silence in the podcast deliberately. Well, I couldn't hear you say anything, I don't know if you were expecting me to follow up on that. I'm not going to.


I mean, I was I was I was leaving the polls for commuting effect. But then once I started seeing Jamie, you're supposed to reply because at that point, I'm assuming there's an audio issue. Well, I did anyway, after quite a while.


Yeah, because there was an audio issue. Do you to talk about your family? Well, there was no issue.


OK, and don't talk about what your article. I don't have an article.


It was just on the historical context.


Anything at the time had an ongoing battle fatigue, which which we know all about from from Patton or from called. Yes, that's it. That's why a good thing. OK. That's my head. I said. Great. So nothing really happened, what happened on the day the 11th of October in 1978, let's clear in 70 what happened. They.


There was it was Independence Day recording this nineteen twenty one for. Sorry. Yeah, I'm sure there is a bit of silence here so far and yeah, very, very helpful. It's professional, isn't it?


How does it feel to be twenty one and. Yeah, fine. Yeah, I don't really know what else to say, and I can't really tell the difference. The scary thing is that this is the last stage that anyone cares about until you are 30, you know. Yes. And whereas, you know, you turn you turn 18 and it's 10, 16. It's kind of a thing just about that, you know, 17, whatever, 18 to take one 19 is not really a big competition.


Last year, a teenager, 20, you know, you're not a teenager anymore. Twenty one is a big one. And then suddenly, you know, this is me. You don't hear fun facts, right? Looking at the week, OK, I'm on the edge of October 1970. What born was CNN, where the creator of Kingdom Hearts Sadik-Khan currently in London. And Matt Damon.


Right. Was free, very famous people. That's nice, but Nancy, on a day to this came out, no one was born of any interest. Yes, that's true, but, you know, I don't I maybe you should take a bizarre context and sense that you've got a day. Thanks. OK, so the film in question is called The Great White Hope. It is about the boxer, Jack Johnson. As we mentioned, no one can knock down, which is very upsetting because this is 1910s times.


So there's a big history of, you know, racism to introduce that concept quite obscure to people. Yes, it's quite interesting, actually. It turns out that white people were very racist towards black people and still are incredibly. So they're looking for a white man who can knock them down the great white hope citral a great white hope they can't find one. They got a firm which I to do it and he still lost. So. Jackson that.


Jack So it gets in trouble because he has a white wife, which isn't great for people who don't believe in interracial marriage. So he gets arrested on trumped up charges for violating the act and what it was that.


It's you're not allowed to transport a woman over state lines for immoral purposes. Oh, OK. I mean, I kind of guess it's that based on what happens today. Yeah.


But in the film, they say it's for is really for corporations only in that they sort of manipulated it so that they could technically arrest them for that because he was annoying. Right. So he. Yeah. So he gets arrested but he skips bail with his wife and flees to merry old England where racism doesn't exist. Except that it does. And he can't box there because they really don't like him. And then he goes to like the way you did the.


That was like a. horrible histories when the guy's like, but not for long. So, yeah, there you were, like, you know, every single thing since they're only adults, and that was good for them.


And then they go to France where racism also doesn't exist, except that it does. And then they go to Germany where racism doesn't exist, except that it does, and find any boxing matches at all. And they're running out of money and they keep fleeing from place to place. He's getting really emotionally the emotional strain on him. And his wife is reaching PowerPoint. Paramount Point.


Yeah, PowerPoint reaching power is in the Microsoft application.


Yeah. 2010. So they they end up fleeing to Mexico and he and his wife have a big fight about whether Jack should take the government software to throw a match against a white boxer who can be an exchange for a much reduced sentence. And they have a discussion during which she asks why he won't do this, and he struggles to articulate why he can't. And at the end of that very first argument, she ends up killing herself. And so.


Jack takes the match and he's planning to frame it, but then the last second decides he can't. And he fights in earnest, but then he loses anyway. Yeah, and that's the film. So what your main faults make me see me. I've got some things to share.


Your thoughts. I'm ready to go very quick.


They have. And I think it's better honestly, I'm not backing down.


I think it's probably better. But we are now 10 minutes in and normally this point an inherited. But yeah, it's fine because then we've got ages to discuss in great depth the film. Well, yeah, because we can talk about the stuff that's interesting rather than me going there for ages trying to remember what happens. But, um, what do you think about the. Yeah, well, what's your broad takeaway and then you can go to more specific stuff.


My takeaway, I there is not a law by the Great White Hope, which I am not saying is a bad thing, but it's odd that they named that and. Because the kind of the impression that that name would give is they would go. Back and forth between maybe between Jack Johnson, Jack Jefferson, sorry, and like the promoter that's trying to find the great white hope, but instead it kind of starts and they're like, oh, you're the white hope.


And then. And then then it's all just about Jack Jefferson and he fights around the white dude. Whereas I believe in real life, what happened was there was a big search, not search is in like a televised game show or anything, but a surreal life, never really to a search that is this this whole thing and which which is not very useful, which is not to say program, but it's just it's interesting that they went with that name.


Yeah, I mean, I suppose because it's more showing the sort of racism and overt white supremacy of the time and the help they need one. Yeah, but also, you know, channel Jack's innate talent, such thing is needed. This is, I think, the first film we've done this entire time, but it's overtly about race. We've obviously done some stuff which has hints of that, like getting straight. And there's obviously the games, which was just a racist film.


But yet, yeah, the film I was going to say the Games is probably the most similar to this one, just in terms of race theme having having a major black character.


Yeah, because it's more the sport, the sports films kind of one thing. But yeah, I'm looking here. Old film Zeitun. Wow, it was quite a while as it. Yeah, yeah, I bet it yeah.


But I feel, you know, bearing in mind that it's a 50 year old film, I thought it was all right from that angle. I thought it was quite interesting to see. I'm not sure about the race of the writer, but, you know, it had some insider knowledge, the.


So Josh Hackney's yet how Howard cycler picture in Wikipedia. I assume that's that question. Listen, I'm very confused. This is so interesting. Yeah, but, uh, but, you know, this is not a major thing. Oh.


I suppose explains some things. Sorry.


And he write does. I can see just here how I would say, oh, here we go, Stalberg captains. Yeah, OK, so so he did he did a rewrite jaws, and it looks like he did chose to insult. Private sector security fear designer Coskata Midsummer Night's Dream. The Great White Hope chose reality time chose to Saint-Jacques down river in twenty eighteen. The difference between 18. Well, I was going to say I thought it was OK up front at least, speaking of the incredibly white but at least modern audience member in front of me said to.


Well, like, it has some interesting and interesting that has as a nuanced perspective, I suppose, Jack sort of refuses to take responsibility for acting as a sort of symbol of African-Americans in the country in a time of racial segregation, despite the fact that he is, you know, whether he likes to or not. I'm not clearly, even though he won't overtly acknowledge it seeps into his motivations, at least a little.


Yeah. And he's got this thing where it's like I'm just a boxer and, you know, I'm no, I'm not a black boxer.


He's he's winning for himself. Not for you long. Exactly. But, you know, clearly he is at least somewhat.


I know he isn't. But but for for people, that's what he represents for.


Well, that or do you think feel that Jack's motivation for boxing is to sort of rebel against a world that is so actively hostile to him? Yeah. See, obviously comes from racism.


I don't I don't know if it's so much to rebel against it. I think it's more just as more and more and more she wants to do what he wants to do.


And he's something like what you achieve a certain self actualization so that he can't be controlled by.


Yeah, but I think I think for him it's it's for himself. Like, he doesn't see why. It's not so much that he doesn't see why a black person can't POCs is more just that he can't see why he can't. I guess I don't know. Well yeah exactly. Kind of get you know, the way that he talks about how he doesn't seem self is like the great black hope I guess, or whatever. And in his mum says that from a young age he was asking, but can I do this?


I can do this. I kind of. Yeah, yeah.


Well, I think that's sort of his he doesn't want to be defined as a black person. He wants to have he wants to be seen. He wants to be seen as an equal. And obviously in that time, if accepting a leader is acceptable state, but I suppose if he became an African-American hero, that would be seen as limiting in his psyche. Exactly.


Yeah, that's how I would say. And yeah, he is a hero.


But like the forces that motivate him to box are, you know, racist forces, say if I if he sees it as against himself and he consciously is not doing it for that reason, but his reasoning for doing it goes back to that.


That is what's causing his reasons for doing it, I guess is what was. Yeah. I quite liked the sort of bits in the romance were like they clearly struggle with the fact that there are aspects of his life that his girlfriend can't relate to. Yes, those are handled in a way that was quite sweet, but, you know, fairly mature. Oh, do you know what recently did?


What we did, watermelon man, you did watermelon man. I saw the men and watermelon man actually arrested by black person. How did you feel that compared I to you, remember?


Well. I feel like I see this one. No, I don't really know, and I guess it wasn't that different really. It was a weird one. I can't even remember much better. I was going to say that it's maybe more like willing to put yourself out there and not be. Can, you know, real railroaded into one thing or another? I don't think that's the case. I think this one this one goes quite far as well.


You know, it's not. Yeah, it's not like a white savior narrative, I don't think.


Well, I was whining, so you can say, yeah, some contemporary reviews accused of taking the easy way out.


And I was wondering about that in the context of the ending, because obviously in the ending, Jack loses, but he loses fair and square. And he's clearly happy about that because he's found someone who can defeat him even if they are white. But obviously, that is also the very easiest thing that could happen to the film, because that's the single most convenient outcome for everyone involved. So I was wondering if maybe that is a bit of an easy out, if maybe like a more daring film would happen.


Both make the mistake of trying it out and still winning and then dealing with the fallout of that or, you know, fading away. You know, I mean, like sort of a self-destructive raging bull, the wrestler kind of thing. Yeah. Because he sort of takes the self-destructive decision and then still gets out fine.


Yeah. I see what you're saying. Mm hmm. Yeah, so it's also like it's a bit weird, obviously, you can have on some of if you hopping like a black empowerment film and then it does end with him being beaten by the white folks are fair and square. Yeah. In real life. I mean, I don't know if he I don't know if he got beaten fair and square. So I mean, I'm so used to being for the first time many rounds and that doesn't help.


But I do. I do get what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, they don't focus an awful lot on his wife killing herself, or at least not as much as you expect to see this kind of move so quickly. Yeah, they don't. It happens off screen. And I realize why you do that, because you're being, you know. Sort of classy, but it does also mean that you don't really feel a lot of impact from his trainer, runs in and gets very sad.


And then they sort of go, and that's. Interestingly, Cycler says that he does not believe the play was strictly about racism, it's about the destiny of a man pitted against society.


Yeah, that's kind of what I was saying earlier, that, yeah, you know, the way this story is structured, there's not that much that you see, you know. I mean, there's even the where you see the black community turning against them or one member of the black community against him saying he's too white and all this stuff. So I think it really focuses on how the system has an impact on the individual rather than how the system has an impact on the system as a whole.


That makes sense. So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think you could probably extend the analogy away from racism and still work in some way. I don't know what you make it, but. Yeah. Now, apparently, Muhammad Ali really liked the play he saw, so it was about him. Yeah, yeah. And people who talked about the play said it was a cliche of white liberalism, which it kind of is based don't.


Although I think when you compare it to a green pig, for example, or films, they are very white. But that black people, I think this one is a lot better. And obviously I can't speak as I can't speak as a black person or other minority and how it reflects me.


But, you know, I mean, I think certainly white people don't come out in the film looking either blameless or just misunderstood. And I feel that's the most important.


Yeah, there are undoubtedly racist. And yeah, in many, many cases in the. Yeah, I suppose it's not. They're certainly not willing to all not even realize it doesn't have a deep discussion of the issues at hand. It's only about how it affects Jack, but it's about Jack, I suppose. I don't think it was really rooting for a deeper examination of the issues at hand. I mean, it's really more about Jack and his relationship with society, I suppose.


Yeah, it's more like his race is more of an excuse, I suppose you could say, for there to be someone who all of society is against. Like it was like if you had like a disability could be a apart from the fact boxing.


Yeah. That I mean, there's not really much it could be other than race, but you could you could extend it to something else. And, you know, he could be a woman, he could be disabled.


You could be something else if it was it was like if you'd like been accused of a crime or who was gay, I suppose the other obvious ones. Yeah. Because, yeah, well, I suppose then there's also the fact that, like Jack saying, well, Jack does have his own community, but parts of it do turn on him.


Well, yeah, he does. He does. But you kind of see himself as separate from that. I mean, that's that's that's all they were saying about you. Doesn't really seem himself is black or. He does, but he doesn't.


So then when when one is when he escapes the country, obviously his whole family and friends come together and they're able to get him out. So I don't think he he doesn't divorce himself.


Oh, he definitely doesn't. But he that I mean, his mom talks about how he doesn't accept that he's. He doesn't accept that his that he doesn't accept the light society has cast him as a second class citizen.


Yes, exactly. Which I mean, I'm not against him in a whole heap of trouble. No, no.


Not anyone should accept that part of the film. That's kind of the point in the film. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, what else is there to discuss, really? What did you think of the female lead will face name Ellie brilliant girl.


NARRATOR. Yeah, what did I think of her? Yeah, I think she's that classic, like female character that's very strong and like just the sidekick and they're for the person. And obviously that that's not true when she killed herself. But up until that point, her character is almost entirely as an extension of Jack and as someone to him that all white people are racist and someone to support him when he's feeling down.


And I suppose you could. It's suppose you could talk about maybe the wife being like the get out of jail free card? I think obviously for the story to work, she has to be on as she does.


And I think and I mean, I think this is interesting by how. What was what was the deal with that he will work fights. Yeah, what was the deal with that you? I kind of somehow missed I don't want to sound mean James Earl Jones is a very strong accent in this film.


And therefore, so I do miss and I wasn't sure if it's because he was worried that he doesn't want her to see the racial abuse. I think that's being heard.


Oh, yeah, right. Of course, because it would kind of anger her, but then, yeah, I, I don't know. I feel like it could have been more on that. I mean, they have they have the big final argument and they kind of have one kind of midway through.


So I think I'm going to go ahead and say that I find the final argument, whilst it's quite nasty, does not justify her killing herself, or at least to me, it seems it still seems a bit out of nowhere. It does, but I think I think the point is that the tension has been building and she's been ignoring it. Yeah, I mean, they've been on the run for years now, makes it work because I think, you know, I think the my my issue with her character was that she really didn't do much.


She was just always there as the support woman and there was never any characterization. But, you know, thinking back to that might be deliberate, you know, to show that she's been bowling all up for this final, you know, argue, well, this there's the scene where the where the lawyer tries to trick her into, like saying that Jack raped her and she stands her ground is able to sort of.


Yeah, but no, no, that's true. But I mean, that's kind of what I mean, is that at no point do you see her being negative towards him. And that kind of makes it all the worse because it shows that when she finally is able to do that and sort of like, all right, he does not react well at all.


And then ultimately, the final tension, the tension between them is that she can't really understand what is going through. Yeah. And she can't understand exactly his motivations for why he keeps on, why he's on the self-destructive path, as it were. And so she can't really offer him comfort when he needs it. Yeah, yeah. Jack also already has a wife. Yeah, I don't I don't think she's his wife. I think she's yeah. Just refers to herself as I think she was like, yeah.


An ex book kind of thing. I'm not sure what she was doing in the film. She really didn't contribute to much. I think she was meant to be maybe comic relief, but she wasn't funny. I don't know.


She's into comic relief. Maybe she's meant to represent like the community that you slept behind or some had to know. Yeah.


She had she had some tension around. I guess it will. Will he go back to his own race, can attention, but then I mean, it's never done.


Is it a romance? There are two scenes. She has a lot argument in front of him, in front of reporters, and then she threatens to tell him out to the police when he's trying to escape.


I mean, I feel like the potential there would be they could have done some kind of tension around. Will will he get back with her? Because it's easier, you know. Oh, yeah. So you're saying and I think that's kind of what she's meant to be. But then, you know, actually in the film that there's never that tension and nothing ever happened to write it. But I can I have a feeling that maybe that's kind of the point of her.


Yeah. Yeah, what do you think of the film visually? I thought it was quite flat and uninteresting. I would say that's usually my main issue, is that the presentation quite dull? I would say. So they don't really show much boxing in the film. And I'm sure that's because it probably had a quite large budget.


I mean, yeah, I was going to say because I mean, that's the build that stadium set.


And so, I mean, you must have had to so so because it used to be a play and obviously you would have to skip a lot of the matches in that.


But yeah. But then, you know, you'd expect them to put it in the film. So yeah. My one of my main gripes that it was, it doesn't show the boxing and there was a point where the first match I looked away for a second and then the match is over when I looked up and I was kind of like a big comeback. But you just use a consciously. Yeah, you just you just beat the guy up and then it cuts to much later when he's won.


And the film doesn't even do that.


It's just like the match begins and then we cuts to like the evening. And there's no real sense of time. That time of day I was really thrown for a loop by that.


Well, so yes, I'm saying I was really expecting to see the boxing match.


And then even if you didn't see the boxing match, at least see him like maybe like we always felt like him falling down or something like just to show that it's happening because I don't think they even show the later boxing match.


And the only boxing match they show is the one of the very, very, very end. And it's really well done, extremely well done.


But even then, they don't start it until probably for, you know.


I don't know, maybe it's I'm sure it's hard to I think well, I think the main reason is because it's play and the competition from the play was was very much keeping it in the film. This reminds me of which I have to confess. I've only seen half of his fences that I haven't seen fences now. But you know. No of it. No, not even know of it. OK, so Denzel Washington in it.


And it's also about race and it's I, I think it's about a baseball player or football player or something. And in a similar time period I believe to this and maybe a bit later. And anyway, that's also based in play and it's similarly very light brown and gray kind of color palette and a lot of people talking and a couple of dramatic scenes. But it's all very clear. They like you know, you can very much tell it's based on a play because of the way the dialogue is done and the way the way self-assured.


And I think the beginning of the film began with the film. The beginning of screenwriting is you have such a potential for like the visual medium to be able to show certain things that you're doing. The same dialogue is in a play. Well, I mean, like the issue of adopting to say plays over the to the dialogue because the play was was good and it was successful. But a play is always going to be like that's what was going to be a bit of a challenge for.


Yeah, yeah, unless, like, the dialogue is unusually good, because, like I said, it might even be even then even that initial youth visual stimulus, because the whole thing with being in a theater is, you know, the visual stimulus is seeing the audience around you, an auditorium and and how the set's being dressed and all this kind of stuff. And I don't think that translates to a film unless you do something interesting visually as well.


Yeah, that's what I was going to say, my dinner with Andre is obviously a very good film, but it's basically just to play. I think I was able to carry it off mostly just from the strength of this dialogue. But the dialogue isn't especially good either. It's not as talks about some interesting things. It's not very interesting moment to moment, I think, really on the problem.


And I think I think for for play, you get away with that somehow. I mean, I personally, I find a lot place very boring. And and, you know, there's actually when I think about it, there's not many times I've been to the theater and really, really enjoyed what's on stage apart from like a pantomime or musical or something. And even then even then, I find it hard to keep myself really focused on it. And the feeling of the film is you have control over everything, you know.


And I feel like this film not as much as fence's from what I've seen of it, but this film doesn't really take that. That advantage and use it. Yeah, yeah, it's very visually, as you say, it's mostly brown, this is not particularly I think it's just it has to be interesting. Must be fun to hear the part are interesting to hear the characters speak. And while they do have interesting things going on, most of their conversations are quite straightforward and the film usually quite honest about what they want.


I mean, the other the other big thing is that I honestly can understand a lot. Yeah.


I mean, like I said, I didn't want to be mean to James Earl Jones accent, because I know it's I mean, can accent. Is that his actual accent?


Well, I think it's for me. I think it's certainly they owe an attempt to authentic action, and I don't want to be like the guy who like watches like a film set by someone with, like, any accent other than his own is like this graceful lady. I'm sure if you come from wherever the accent I. Have you ever watched Futurama the.


Oh, well, well, OK, well, I really feel that the character Barbados Slim, his design is based off James Earl Jones in the suit because they speak the same and have a very similar look. It's maybe just me making connections where there aren't any, right? Yeah, due diligence is usually pretty easy, saying there's just a couple of moments where it goes a little too much for me.


It's when he's sinking fast or shiting or something. And there's a couple other characters that have the same accent.


And yet I don't want to be because obviously that is if that if that is, as I assume, an authentic accent, I think it is, then like I don't want to crap on it because obviously it's just as valid a way of speaking as mine. Oh, sure.


Yeah. But for cinema audience, you kind of want to give them some dialogue, especially when the whole based around the dialogue. And I can see you're making it for if it's for viewers, then obviously that wouldn't be as big an issue. This film made a loss like a half million. Right. Yeah, which is quite interesting, although they get nominated for two Oscars for both James Earl Jones and. Jane Alexander's performance is best actor and best actress.


They won the Tonys, I think, for those that won the Tonys for the play version, but they got nominated for, of course, Tony. Yeah, obviously the. And to say they got nominated. Nice and I feel James Earl Jones probably deserves it because it was pretty good. Jane Alexander, I thought, was kind of mediocre, but you know what I mean. There aren't a lot of meaty roles for doing so at that point in time.


So maybe it's good enough.


True. And, you know, I. You seen her in anything else. No, she seems quite famous, so she was using Kramer versus Kramer, which I have not seen, but I know this is in what's. And yet, oh, Kramer versus yeah. And yeah, yeah, yeah, anything else about this film, particularly when we have a look at my notes and oh so it starts off with much of what follows is true?


Oh, yeah, I like that.


It was a very apparently not just some of it's true. Yeah.


I mean it's better than seeing like based on a true story or something. It's very much saying this is not that true.


Yeah. Some stuff vaguely based on fact.


Yeah. This, the first of all, war takes place during this film. Oh, yeah, of course, and there's some German soldiers that you see. Yeah, yeah, right, it doesn't take sides, man, this conflict. No, he doesn't. He says he says we're we're finished here. The war is starting and it just leads you. Yeah, that's that's it. In Mexico, they go to Mexico and. Yeah, it's very American.


Not taking sides. Yeah. Of course. Um, let me look into the future scene. I thought that was interesting. I think it's a lot of what Jack doesn't want, I think obviously the choice of Uncle Tom's Cabin is a very deliberate one.


Well, again, Uncle Tom's Cabin is like one of the first stories about how slavery might be bad.


But it's like a bunch of stories about an old slave called Uncle Tom. And then, like, he helps out folks, he's a decent soul. And you're supposed to realize that maybe all black men can be nice. But it's been very roundly criticized in the 200 years hence for still being quite racist and stereotypical. And as you may know, the modern slang, Uncle Tom is a black person who sells out the members of his race to white folks.


OK, interesting.


But I think in the context of the scene, it's supposed to be quite humiliating for him to be there to experience a voluntary racial stereotype.


Yeah, especially when the other guy comes out to look.


Yeah, yeah. Those horrible. Joe, it was cool when they were awake and we then started to fight and they like sit the giant scale thing, that was cool.


Oh yeah, I forgot that. You see that in boxing matches. It's very fun. Yeah, I know that. It was like it was a decent it was like decades before someone in boxing realized that they could dodge and it was like some gentlemanly. So, again, you a bit there, like in the development of boxing. It took years before some people. Originally, Pakistani justice system was just punishing, right, and then and then what it was originally just months and months and months leading up to launch.


Oh, OK. Right. So I can hear you talk. And I thought you were going to say something about how they change the way in process. And you can see, like, getting used to using the skill or something, but, you know, you let your expectations color your first.


I was hoping you'd have a deep knowledge of boxing and there's a nice little bit of imagery when when he wins the fight. And then there's behind him is the cafe, the champion, which is a house. No, not at all discrete or subtle, but kind of funny. And the the the I watch this intelligent forty p and. Yes, sir. Could you tell who people were at some point because they were.


I don't want to blame the film for like this. Absolutely.


Our photo is completely our fault, but there are definitely bits when all the white people look the same actually again against the stereotype. Yeah it was interesting. And he's switching. OK, well, we'll play the old play baseball team, the Detroit Blue Jays, and that is time I heard of an old black baseball team.


I don't know if that was the one. Detroit Blue Jays.


I don't know if it was maybe it was something else, Detroit, because there was a there was an old Black League created in 1888 and what was that was that we little onwards league was like.


But the lesson or at least.


Yeah. So okay. Let me have a look here at the Wikipedia entry to Detroit Stars. The Detroit the Detroit Stars, it looks like, said the thing, yeah, so so maybe the true story, it was a Detroit s they changed it to the future or maybe they're not in the. It never happened.


Maybe they're not in the L word league, but rather, to be honest to say that the real jack don't involve merrily disguising himself as a member of a local baseball team could have done.


I mean, not a romantic. I find that scene quite funny and actually.


Yes, but not the most realistic in the world. No, probably not without baseball.


Oh, yeah. To treat cancer, Johnson pose a member of black baseball team. Oh, look at me. They went to Montreal and then they went to France, those bloody compactors. Interesting. Hmm, very interesting. Very interesting. He actually served time in prison.


Yeah, and interesting, most of the second half of the movie is made up. Yeah, a lot of it. Oh, he died in this car crash. After bracing, angry after racing, angry from coast to black hospital, that's the weirdest thing to read. Yeah, yeah. OK, well, it's not so real, but it's pretty crazy, I mean, imagine you have to go to oh, he had a lot of fights. Holy shit.


Ninety five fights. Ninety six face. Seventy one wins and 11 losses. I mean, that's an insane amount of fights, isn't it? I yeah, it's quite a lot. How many times I say as someone who definitely knows the answer to that question.


Who's the current thought through? OK, so recently retired Tyson Fury, that's about to. Yeah. Tyson Fury. I mean, faces. And I know this is interesting. Stuff here, just as I possibly he's got he's got three one fights. He's been fighting for 12 years and Jack Johnson fought for. Oh, like for two years, OK, so maybe, maybe. Maybe that's normal. Yeah, that would be free, FITES A year.


Yeah. Wait, yeah, because if this guy's been boxing for 10 years and he's got 30 fights, that's that's three fights a year, and then Judge Jackson has 70 fights over five years. That's like two and a bit like a year. Well, this is quite boring. Well, I find it interesting because I think when you think about boxers, you don't think about how little they actually fight. I mean, OK, right, I'll make it interesting.


It's like a football team plays every week. Right. Yeah, I'm sure their season only lasted for two every week, whereas a fighter in pretty much all of fighting sports only fights like twice a year. And that's that's their whole job. You don't find it interesting. No, I mean, think how much money was involved in the fights in order to pay these guys the amount they get paid? Whoo hoo!


OK, funky and cool ratings, I feel we've gotten to the bottom of the barrel if we've got the bottom of the barrel.


Sure. And let's got more barrel to I don't think I've got my barrel to to to to go down.


Well, I'm going to raise it, I'm going to say skip personally, but, you know, I think it's quite boring. These are obviously themes that have been dealt with many times in the American film canon. So I can't really see, say, see myself recommending on. I'm going to say watch this on. And just to be frank, if you both it's called if you both said they would be there for the film, it's not bad for the house.


So it picks up a bit in terms of the emotional drama is a bit more entertaining. It's just it's a little too slow. It's a little too straightforward. And it's obviously.


But I think if you enjoy plays and kind of films based on plays that very closely, it then you might like this one. I mean, obviously, we talked about how it's not that deep and stuff. So you don't think about that, but that you might like it if you're into place that that great to film. So, yeah, I'm getting ready to watch this on AM and go down to escape. If you if you think you find it boring and go up to watch, watch if you think you find it really interesting.


Yeah. I mean I know if you're interested in to if you're interested in life of Jack Johnson, that's not true because it's not accurate.


If you're interested in the life of Jack Jefferson Jefferson then. Yeah. It's hard to recommend. It's got all the story about one man's relation with society is quite interesting. But I just it's quite well trodden ground and I'm sure there are better films that tread the same areas.


Have I said to skip any of the films, but. Yeah, maybe, I don't know. I can't remember. I think I don't think it's fair for you to absolutely hate any of the ones based on you don't have a strong opinions as I do generally. That's true.


I am very centrist. Yeah, maybe, possibly the towers, I seem to remember, he really hated that.


Yeah, maybe and Trog you hated on anything I've ever seen you hate on your life.


I did.


Trog Trog had, as a criterion, release the high school choice here in the least.


We didn't talk about this, I don't think last week and this happened.


Yeah, we criterions releasing a bunch of 70s horror films. Trog is the first one I think we mentioned at the time. It's called the cult following. Understandably, I'm not changing my mind.


So boring as fuck is so boring as fuck. So does the fact that you and I can buy the criteria of these new weapons are going up her rating to the criterion, or at least no part of that is reserved for compromise stuff for me so far and nothing for you.


Yeah. Exactly. OK, that's enough great white hope. Yeah, what have you been up to? Well, we played we played among us last week. I don't think we did talk about this last week.


I'm not like you just look at whatever it is.


There is something that we did not talk about last week that I made. So and for some reason, I felt I would say that if we talked about that, then then it's not that we talked about all the scrolls online and among us last week.


I believe the two things you mentioned about why I've been doing it for some time, to think my computer is fault.


And I tell you that now.


Well, you mentioned at the beginning of this podcast I did why it's playing up and up. And I don't know what to do because I phoned the people and they sent me some brown today. But I'm kind of want to hold off buying it because I might get a new one. But then if I get a new one, I should use parts of this one and I don't have to do that. So basically, I need to learn more about computers so I can try and.


Yeah, it's fun. Now call. So what about your stuff? Yeah, so last Saturday, I watched Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind Mind.


That's really cool. So that's on my watch list. It's really good.


But I felt kind of cheated because I played the indie game to the moon and I see people finding paradise, which I think I talked to on here long ago. And those games are based off the premise of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. And what really impressed me about John Malkovich is how original it was. And I've sort of felt myself of that, if, you know, I mean, it's a lot less out there, I would say for a lot.


But in a way, it felt a lot more whole a lot more solid as an idea.


I really felt like I had a certain likes to it so that external sunshine felt more so than John Malkovich, that it felt less original.


But I think it felt more complete, more be more quintessentially story, which is an interesting film.


Yeah, it doesn't work as well as a whole as Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which the very complete film of the one I look for. I will keep that, you know. Then I watch The Hard Day's Night, which is on Beauty. I play right now, which was a really good film as well. Forty six hours in the life of the Beatles. It was Beatlemania in 1963. Right. But really, genuinely, really funny.


So some really good guys. And there's a subplot where Ringo loses confidence because he feels they don't value him enough as his nose is too big. That made me think of you. And he wanders around the streets trying to find himself mystery.


Whose nose is as big as my.


Ringo, Ringo Starr, and he's not he's not very attractive at this point, which is a way to look at Beatlemania is really strange to look at because you see John and Paul who are like really obviously conventionally attractive. And then you see Ringo and George Bynum, who, I mean, this very nicely, aren't just all these hundreds of women go gaga over them. Here we go. Yeah, I mean, I can yeah. But yeah, yeah, no, you're right.


And all those things, I also I've also been watching the 50 Shades of Grey trilogy with my flat and can confirm that having finished it, it's quite bad really to really shake the world. Um, yeah, and I guess that's oh, and I watched season one of the boys on Amazon, which are quite disappointing.


Oh. Oh don't say that. I've been meaning to watch it after the game. Well, I mean, well, a lot of people like I mean like the first episode I thought it felt I've seen the ideas it's used before in terms of like evil superheroes or superheroes or capitalism.


But I thought there was a certain certain nice spin they're putting on it. I found quite original and enjoying, but I thought it felt like it got a lot more generic as the season went on. So I've started season two, I don't know what is really lost a lot of the initial attraction for me, but I'll stick with it for now at least.


But that's my review of the boys without spoilers, and that's why I feel like it does occasionally feel like it's also just going a bit too much to be edgy for the sake of edginess and in a way I don't find particularly helpful or interesting.


OK, interesting. Well, I mean, I'm still going to watch it, but thank you for your feedback on it. I watched One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and oh, that film, it was good. Really good. Yeah.


Well, listen, are you going to watch Netflix? Rochard I watched the first episode of Netflix into action because I hate I hate that that thing exists so much. It pisses me off more than anything.


The the, um, my girlfriend wanted to watch Ratchet and I said not to. We've seen.


And then you dumped her because that was the only reasonable response. Well, my parents that she recommended you, I think. And and then but I said, I want to watch this first. I'm very glad I did, because the first episode of it was not great. Have you seen the. I know I haven't seen it as a matter of principle, and also because I don't want I know roughly what I think you care if I spoil the plot.


Rochard for you. Yes. OK, well, I know the very bare bones of why she's evil, but like, it's just unbelievably not a story that needs to be told. So, yeah, I think the thing is the thing, right. Shome is her character is actually quite ambiguous because on the one hand, she's evil. But then there's another part of it where you can kind of wonder if she's she's doing it for for the people.


And, you know, she says if she wants to keep she wants to keep Chetniks in there and you're like that she wouldn't do that just to punish him or she wouldn't do that because she wants to try and fix him. And there's all these questions about her character that I think would be interesting.


Well, I think she's more of a symbol than the character is really not interested in finding out her childhood.


But the unappeasable based on the first episode, she's she's basically just like a cartoon villain and in the series and maybe, I don't know, maybe it changes. But, um, yeah, she basically is a cartoon villain. And I actually watching the film, I don't know if this was meant to get I kind of thought she was quite an interesting character. And I kind of on the one hand, I kind of wish they'd said more by her in the film.


Also, I'm very glad it didn't because I think it's interesting just to watch.


I think you're supposed to dislike her in the film because she's controlling and restrictive, you know, exactly like is evil, at least until just to preserve the edge. Exactly.


Because of her controlling. But then but then there's the other side. We kind of wonder, well, is she just doing that because she knows that's actually what's best?


Because, you know, I think she definitely I think she does think it's what's best, apart from, as I say, giving techniques in the laboratory, which is really personal. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, a very bad thing to be possibly.


But don't get people, Boschwitz, when they don't need it. Well, I do think she should.


I think in the film she's presented as believing in the mental health system will exact such time. Exactly. Whereas in a TV series based on the first episode, she really is not. And and I don't think I am I am going to watch the rest of it, but I don't want you to spoil it. And I feel like actually the the first episode of the series is really good as a standalone story, but it just felt completely disconnected to the film and that maybe maybe as the series is on, it becomes more connected to the film and is more recognizable locations, more characters and whatever.


But it really is, you know, just a random you know, like it's that thing where maybe someone had the idea and then had to pick an IP to take to take it from this.


Just to me, it's so transparently like, OK, we have the One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest IP. How can we make this? Ultimately, it just irritates me so much. It's irritates me.


So, um, it's also like the least original idea possible, like the Fargo TV show I to watch one series of it, but it's really, really good. And that's basically one of my favorite films ever. And I'm happy that that's not exists online. I think there are interesting things you do.


You'd like to tell other stories in the mental health hospital, for example, you're doing one for the Cuckoo's Nest, or you can talk about each of the inmates individually. Let's do an anthology thing where they're all doing an episode each. That'll be interesting, I suppose. Although, again, we're in the mystery know it would be more interesting than going into the back story of a character who just isn't doesn't need it at home.


No, I went for a hike on Monday. Yeah. Yeah.


How was it? How was the great outdoors.


It was good. I've been hiking for a long time. I used to do it a lot and it was really nice and good to get back into nature and stuff. And I took my new camera with me and I took some photos. But I always I, I, I get kind of annoyed when people are starting to take photos and I kind of felt like I become that person. But it was fine. It was good. What moral degeneration.


No, I believe you heard by and most of the wells that have been getting up to getting done and I thought a new game on Steam. Which have not really played, um, I played a little bit, so I bought. Axis Football 2020. And you're wondering what that is? Well, yeah, I don't know that the NFL game is awful and it's been quite bad for quite a few years and this one is really bad. So I go I go looking for alternatives and the.


The recommended alternatives and PC are like Madden 2005 and 2008, and I thought, well, I don't really want to get an old game, you know, I might get it, but I want something new. And and then there is there is access to the twenty seventeen. And then I looked at steam and just two days ago, I think access people twenty, twenty eight. So I bought it and I played a little bit of it and.


In terms of like gameplay, it's not great, you can definitely tell that it's very much like an indie game and like a little weather game, but there's something so refreshing about playing a game that it's not the same one I played 100 times because I play I've had Madden for the last five or six years and every one of them is either the same or worse in the last one. And this game is it has like the same controls, but.


It was just as fun and I think I'll play I don't want to play like that, but it's got a team designer and you know that one of the things I absolutely love doing in games is like designing, you know, people and teams and all that kind and stuff like that.


That's one of the main things I like doing what they game, and that's something that's matter. The so this one's got lots of that. So I'm looking forward to that. It's got really intense career mode and stuff. So I'm going to try it and see and try and get used to the gameplay not being so professional. High end but but still fun and and yeah. We'll see. I'll get back to you. And Godspeed to you, my man.


Thank you. It was tough and also they've been playing, doing, watching, I don't know, nothing. I don't think I've had a busy week of work because I went for, like a month. Yeah, I had a really busy week last week.


But this week it sort of chilled out so that I know because I had both both my courses this year have have their class on Thursday and then they were released. They both released their lectures on Monday. I was away on Monday. So I had I had all day Tuesday. I was doing one course and it will be Wednesday, everything the other course in preparation for the class on Thursday. So, yeah, I was quite busy actually. And then today, today I've been busy with work.


I've been busy just, you know, catching up on stuff and. Having fun. Yeah, well, loser. Uh, yeah, yeah, I'm plugging away at the which are free, do not expect me to finish it anytime soon. Fall Guy is season two is unexpected, and it's a full review of the full game. I'll let you know how it goes.


Khidir. And I think I think you're starting to lose connection more so shall we shall we bow out?


I mean, if you've got anything else to say, then go for it. But not not really. All right. Well, I'm glad because that was a funny episode and. Yeah.


Oh, uh, next week we are here to do a film by the name of it's a really cool name. It's the best name. What's your favorite name. My name is. Well, no, no, no, you if you can't get. Jimmy, I got them, let them go and tell them you need. Are you there? Yeah, I never sent my father. Also based on a plan, I'll be a fun comparison, right?


And by Byron.