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[00:00:03]

Dear young rockers, season two is a raw, honest, strange and entertaining story about finding yourself in your early 20s and a lifelong relationship with music. It's hosted by me, Chelsea Erson, and it's executive produced by Jake Brennan of Disgraced Land. Dear Young Rocker comes to you from WLS Productions and I Heart Radio.

[00:00:24]

Listen to Dear Young Rocker on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:00:31]

What if you could learn from one of the world's most inspiring women? Now you can. Introducing Senecas 100 women to hear a new podcast brought to you by Seneca Women and I Heart Radio. I'm Kim Mazzarelli. In celebration of the 100th anniversary of American women getting the vote, we're bringing you the voices of a hundred groundbreaking and history making women listen to Senecas 100 women to hear on the radio app Apple podcasts wherever you get your podcasts. I've heard a lot of different theories about my biological father, I have heard that he was a reporter.

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I heard that he was somebody that worked with her at the post office. I heard that it was another inmate's husband. I've heard that it was just some guy off the street. She knew she was going to get pregnant and she wanted to get pregnant and just picked the first guy she saw. So, you know, I don't know.

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In nineteen eighty three, Diane Downs shot her three children, killing her daughter Cheryl, and forever altering the lives of not only her two surviving children, but the other people in her life. Before her imprisonment, she purposely set out to give birth to another child who would incidentally, become another life, permanently changed by Diane's actions. There's a tired old idiom that people often use when confronting the things they've buried and hidden. The truth will set you free.

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The fact is, sometimes the truth is its own prison, like when the truth of who your father is becomes a dark shadow that follows you and suffocates you until you finally are forced to confront it. When 11 year old Becky found out her biological mother was Diane Downs, it disrupted her identity and changed the course of her behavior and her life.

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Now she's seeking the other half of that puzzle, the identity of her biological father, someone who may or may not even know she exists. Will that truth help bring balance to the weight of her own truth, or will it only further add to the chaos of her self-image? Without knowing for sure the identity of Becky's father, one has to wonder if he himself is even aware that Becky has his eye crosses my mind sometimes.

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I mean, maybe he just doesn't want to believe that I could be that child or that he could be that father, because I've been public now for 10 years with my story.

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And if my biological father wanted to find me, he would have the only things I can come up with or he doesn't know. He's my biological father. She doesn't want to be my biological father or is deceased.

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I mean, if you are intimate with somebody and nine months later there's a baby, I would question that there was very little physical description of the father given and what's there didn't help narrow down the possibilities.

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My adoptive mom, she told me that on my adoption paperwork that he was listed as being like six to blond hair, blue eyes.

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That's all I know. I think that he's German or Danish and that's it. I don't know anything else.

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There's a certain piece to Becky's current situation, she's lived her entire life up to this point, not knowing the identity of her biological father. And as far as she knows, he could be anyone, someone good, someone interesting, someone loving, someone ready to embrace his long lost daughter with open arms. He could fit any template that he wants or needs him to.

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I can decide who he is and I can think that he's an amazing person. And even if he's not, as long as he's a decent human being, I'd be happy. But I'm scared to go on this journey, because if he is, you know, deceased, what if he doesn't want me in his life? It's very, very scary to open this door, but I am very lucky to have the parents that I do have.

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It's not just Becky's biological father who is in a part of her life, but her two half siblings, Christy and Danny. Survivors of Diane's attack also live their own private lives independent of any real relationship with Becky.

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I did reach out to them back in 2006. I found Christie online. We had a little bit of a conversation going. We spoke every couple of days. She told me a little bit about herself. I told her about myself. And one day I got a message that are in Danny don't want anything to do with me that so much time had passed. They don't want to get to know me. More rejection.

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Christie and Danny knew about Becky that they were related, that they shared the similar link and still wanted nothing to do with her. And it's understandable what they went through. I could never even imagine. And maybe being in my life or meeting me would bring up some of that for them.

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I'm not sure. Becky also reached out to Diane's father. I've spoken with Diane Downs. His father was he was a sweet man. He wanted to tell me a lot of the family history, but he also wanted to tell me about Diane and about her case and how she's innocent.

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Becky didn't set out with the intention of speaking to Diane's father about the crime, but to some extent it was unavoidable. I asked both Diane and her father when we first spoke all those years ago that I didn't want to hear about her guilt or her innocence. I just want to hear about her. I just want to know about the family. I just want to know about my biological father. I wanted to leave the case out of it because I knew that all they were going to do is try and convince me that she's innocent.

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I just wanted to know them. That side of my family. Is there a part of you that questions whether she's innocent?

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Diane's innocence has been a question for a lot of people for a long time. I don't believe she's innocent. No, but I know that people do. There are some people like Diane herself, who championed her innocence to this day, her brother, James Frederiksen, is one of them. James was one of the only family members willing to talk to back in me about Diane and their family history. He believes that part of understanding who Diane was is understanding her relationship with her ex-husband, Steve, who she blames for much of what she became.

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She sent James a letter detailing her marriage and relationships leading up to the shooting, which is oddly written mostly in third person. James shares a bit of that here.

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Basically, Steve came into our lives in nineteen seventy one. We moved to Chandler Farm and Steve was a farmhand for the neighbors, my mom and dad, one my sister, the data of the boys. But you know, she was head over heels for Steve and obviously Steve was head over heels for her judge married them on November 13th, 1973, with only Greg Roach and the judge's secretary as witnesses because Diane had no friends of her own at that time.

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She said that she got married and whatever the date was. Right. But the reality is that, you know, she got married because my dad went over to their house where they were out of the apartment and said, you will marry my daughter. We were just house, you know what I mean? It's like I didn't want things to be bad or look bad. And so, you know, you will marry my daughter. Well, it happened fast because my dad was there, you know, and it's like I'm going to use the term.

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It was a shotgun wedding, you know what I mean? Steve didn't want problems with my dad. My dad was really. He didn't physically scarcity, but he intimidated him. There is a theory in domestic violence cases known as the cycle of abuse, which often begins with rising tension and the need to placate the abuser. According to Diane, Steve began the cycle early into his and Diane's relationship.

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Steve controlled every one she talked to, and he didn't let her talk to anyone. She was working. Then when they married, she was talking to other guys at lunch time. And so he made her quiet. He didn't permit a phone in her apartment. The grocery store was a three minute walk from where they lived at one hundred West Railroad, but she wasn't even permitted to go shopping without him. My sister was barely 18 and in her own mind, going on 12 and had never given her new husband caused suspect urban fidelity.

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But he was just sick with suspicion and jealousy.

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Soon after they married, Steve was openly unfaithful to Diane.

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Two weeks after their marriage, Steve came home from work at the tire company where he worked in Mesa and announced he was going out with Janet, the receptionist, and was a bit confused by that. They were married after all. Steve blew up and he said, Hey, I promised Janet they'd go out. The marriage vows came so quickly he forgot to call off their date. He said Diane just needed to iron his shirt and not make things harder for him.

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One month later, Steve went out with his buddies for New Year. Diane was told to wait at home until eleven forty five, she says. Got tired of waiting and she walked to his friend's house. She did what she was told, but Steve wasn't there. Then the told Diane she'd have to wait in the line behind Debbie. So Steve was at the party with other women.

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Diane was pregnant with Christie, her oldest daughter, and allegedly Steve saw this as an inconvenience and didn't want to deal with her.

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Two months later, Diane got pregnant. She had morning sickness, like most women do. But instead of Steve's hanging around supporting her, Steve took her to his parents home and Gilbert, because he wasn't ready to live with the sick wife while Diane was at his parent's house, Steve moved in with Jackie when Jackie's husband, Dale, returned from California. Steve or to Dale from exile. Is it just a little part about the infidelity? So then we start talking about the abuse and.

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According to Diane, Steve wasn't only controlling and unfaithful, but his abuse crossed the threshold into physical. In the meantime, Diane had a second child, Danny and another daughter, Cheryl, in 1992.

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Diane was talking on the phone. Steve came home and heard talking on the phone. He thought she was talking to a man on the phone. So he picked up the phone and slammed it down. They argued and he slapped and punched her and the phone rang. And Diane obviously answered it. And it was actually Holly on the phone saying that Karen was afraid Steve was hitting her. Diane looked at Steven, said to Holly, Yes, he is.

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He's still here. So he grabbed the phone and he hit Diane with and she rushed the phone and hung it up and engaged him.

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Diane and Steve were divorced at this point, but he still lived with her and the kids. Eventually, the abuse reached a breaking point and she started to fight back. A judge issued a restraining order, but Steve didn't stay away.

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In the meantime, Diane had bought a gun in an effort to protect herself. And then one day, Steve had her cornered in a bathroom.

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When he was kicking the door open, she fired a warning shot into the floor. The next week, he moved his furniture out of her home as a stealthy as he moved in. That was September 14th, 1982.

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In October of that year, Diane's four month old mobile home burned down and she sent her kids to live with Steve so they wouldn't be homeless. She eventually found another place to live, but Steve wouldn't allow her to have the children back. During this time, Diane saw affection from other men.

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Yeah, she was seeing Nick that time. Nick is Robert Knickerbocker, a married man who supposedly didn't like children. The fact that some believe may have later played into Diane's motivation for the shooting.

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Married men showed her the most affection because married men were safe to her because married men didn't want to leave their wives. They just wanted some affection. And really, that's all Diane ever really wanted. She was still that 12 year old little girl striving for that affection. And she went out and she got that affection from married man. You down with black hair, you down with abolishing the prison industrial complex, you down with puppies. Deal with puppy.

[00:12:47]

You'd be surprised where the comedy group Obama's other daughters and we're inviting you to come kick in with us on our podcast called You Down.

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We're bringing you the same fun vibe we served during our improv shows in L.A., only in podcast form. Check in with us as we discuss everything going on in the culture and have the nerve to give our UN expert opinions to a lucky listener, whether it's embarrassing hair stories or comedy fails. We might even talk about Ghost.

[00:13:17]

Listen to you down on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your pocket you do.

[00:13:28]

What if we reimagine the word citizen not as a weapon to divide us, but as a verb, inviting us all to wield our collective power? Pretty dope, huh? In this time of pandemic and revolution, you may find yourself frustrated at high levels of corruption and inequality, at our inability to get basic things done at the persistence of systemic racism. You are not alone. I'm Baratunde Thurston. I've produced for The Daily Show, advised the Obama White House and screamed way too much at my screen.

[00:14:00]

Now I've made a show for us. In it we highlight people mobilizing their communities, having an impact on some of the biggest challenges we face. We offer you ways to get involved and we remind you that we, the people, have the collective power to change how our society works and for whom. Listen to how a citizen with Baratunde on the I Heart radio at Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcast.

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Diane's attention from other men is what led to her earlier divorce from Steve.

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Despite his own unfaithfulness, he believed she'd actually become pregnant with Danny due to an affair. He ended their marriage, believing the pregnancy should not have been possible due to a vasectomy. Diane, it seemed, enjoyed being pregnant. She had a fourth child before, Becky, but this time as a surrogate.

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So, yeah, it was just basically she went through the surrogacy program, delivered a baby, gave it to a family. She got ten thousand dollars for that. And that helped her and her life.

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Right. When Diane became pregnant with Becky, James dismissed it as if there were almost like another surrogacy.

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And I wasn't going to have another niece, nephew. I was basically having another child. I wasn't attached to it. I wasn't bonded with it. I wasn't any of that.

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After Diane's trial and Becky's birth, James didn't give the baby much thought.

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They took her away. I mean, I knew this existed, but I didn't know anything about her. And that was that. Out of sight. Out of mind. And then one day, Becky appeared on 20/20. James first impression was not a great one.

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What did you think when you first saw her on a news program? Honest answer.

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I didn't understand why she was making a fuss out of something if she had two perfectly wonderful, loving parents. I don't remember what exactly was basically said. And she's going to make sure that Diane doesn't gain parole. I didn't like her. James had made an earlier attempt to contact Becky and tried to convert her to his version of the truth. I reached out to her on social media and we talked and I tried talking to her about what I know is truth and the story that she knows is the public or the animal story.

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She really wasn't willing to listen to that frustrate you. It's always frustrating. Yeah.

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Every single time watching Twenty Twenty, James grew increasingly frustrated with Ann Rule, author of the book. Becky first discovered in the bookstore as an 11 year old. He believed that she had many things about Diane story and the crime wrong and that Becky's view of her biological mother's guilt had been colored by that book. He also doesn't believe that and knew the identity of Becky's father to spite her claims.

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So. People that are adopted, some of them have a desire to find out who they come from, whether it be Diane the murderer, or Diane the victim to knows that she comes from Diane and she doesn't know who her father is. And unfortunately, there's only two people that do. The author didn't know who the father was because she wasn't there during conception and has never been told by my sister who the person is. The only people that know are the mother and the father of Becky.

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If it was some kind of. You know what I mean, it wasn't even a co-worker, it was just some guy in her room, you know, I mean. I, I don't. I don't have any idea who it is he knows or maybe he doesn't. I would imagine so. I don't know yet. I never told them. So maybe he doesn't, you know, because, I mean, it's like, you know, she got a reputation of sleeping around, you know what I mean?

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She didn't. But that was her reputation. So, I mean, as a guy, if you are just, you know, sleeping with somebody just once or twice, then, you know, it's like you're not really concerned whether that person gets pregnant or not or they come knocking on your door. And so now he may not. Now he may not know. Despite the fact that James and Becky didn't see eye to eye in his earlier attempts to contact her, he wants another chance to explain, which may be his primary reason for his willingness to meet with her again 10 years ago on the social media and then via phone.

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And then she didn't really want anything to do with the truth, as we've stated earlier. You know, it's like talking about some of the letters that Diana wrote her after being in solitary. You need to believe that she's psychotic. You need to believe that she's a deviant sociopath or whatever those words are that they're throwing out there. But she wasn't willing to listen. That's my whole point. I talked to her then. She did not listen. And I'm hoping today she listens.

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And I'm always willing to talk to anybody who is willing to listen because the truth needs to be. While I spoke to James, Becky was waiting in the studio to speak with him before bringing her in, I spoke to her alone for a few minutes to gauge her feelings on the situation and brief her on what to expect.

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I've been talking to James here, asking him about his feelings today, about meeting you. Finding out his intentions when we first got in the studio is quite overwhelmed because there's so much he wanted to share. And then what I found interesting, though, is that he really, really cared about today and wanted to come today with something sort of as an offering of information that he could provide. First of all, has a letter from Diane, and it's written to Amy, to you, and it's going to talk about her time being pregnant with you.

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Oh, yeah.

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One thing that I am. Concerned about his day and still denies that I'm her biological daughter, and so this letter is written to Amy, who I guess I don't identify with, because she doesn't claim to be my biological mother. So there's been like a disconnect there. I'm not sure how to respond when James reads that letter, because my initial knee jerk reaction would be uncomfortable and upset. The truth is, is that regardless of the name Amy or Rebecca, you were that baby.

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It doesn't feel like that. You know, it feels like almost a separate person completely, especially because she doesn't believe that it's me. She may not believe it's you, but your physical being had that experience as a newborn, as a child, as a baby girl coming into this world. And regardless of name, it was your experience. I wrote her back in 2006 when I put my son up for adoption, wanting to connect with her, it feels like this letter that you guys have been talking about is almost going to be that connection that I needed back then.

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And after we had such a meltdown with her in that last letter where she was very cruel, I don't want that connection with her. So I'm nervous about hearing this letter and I don't know how I'll feel.

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If I'm being completely transparent and honest, I'm almost scared that I want to have that connection, like there's that conflict of being the adopted child, that you want that connection with your biological parents.

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But it's it's a battle in my heart, in my head, because I don't want to be connected to her. I'm Holly, frying an American markets, and together we're exploring the margins of history and specifically at the intersection of history and true crime.

[00:22:19]

Welcome to the Criminally, a podcast. Our first season of the show is all about lady poisoners, and the history has not been kind to ladies.

[00:22:27]

Women have been marginalized. They've been vilified. They're falsely accused and often just plain misunderstood time and time again.

[00:22:35]

But sometimes women take power for themselves and sometimes they do it through murder.

[00:22:42]

Some of these women absolutely were guilty, but some of them were probably labeled as criminals. But that was not the case. And all of them were viewed through society's lenses, sitting at this intersection of being both killers and the fairer sex. But how many were just misunderstood? Listen to criminality on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:23:11]

Blood on the Tracks is a new podcast about legendary music producer Phil Spector and the murder of Lana Clarkson. This podcast is hosted by me, Jake Brenin, creator and host of the award winning music and true crime podcast Disgrace in 2011 Club.. This new serialized podcast is part true crime, part historical fiction and part spoken word lo fi bete noire. Each episode is told from the perspective of the people who knew Phil Spector best, his so-called friends. Season one features 10 episodes and is released.

[00:23:42]

Weekly episodes are packed with secrets, confessions and revelations and are narrated by the fictionalized voices of real people like Lenny Bruce, Ronnie Spector, Ike Turner, John Lennon, Debbie Harry and more. Just like Phil Spector. This podcast sounds like nothing you've heard before because you can't push the needle into the red without leaving a little blood on the tracks. Blood on the Tracks contains adult content and explicit language. Listen to Blood on the Tracks and the I Heart Radio Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:24:16]

What are we going to do this? Because he's going to want to say hi them the moment he walks through the door, it's fine or she's bringing it right now, the recording. We have set up ready. James, this is Becky. Hi. Good to see you. Yeah, how is your trip? It was good. Yeah, that's good.

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Yeah. How are you? No, getting through it. No, it's a little different, like we were mentioning, it's first time I've actually met anybody from the biological family, so it's different. So this is all different after some setup and light chitchat, they get right into it. James immediately begins to read the letter he received from Diane.

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It says, I was four and a half months pregnant when I was arrested. Amy and I were locked in a jail cell alone for nearly four months before she was born. She gave me the strength to keep calm during the trial. Every day I'd tell her that she was going to be OK and that her bottom and Robert back and comer. I didn't let myself get consumed with worry for her sake. Then when we return to our jail cell, after my first day on the witness stand, there was a court order waiting in our concrete slab bed.

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The state has custody of Amy even before she was born. The trial wasn't even over yet and the state was taking her. I was physically ill, but couldn't dwell on it because I didn't want Amy to feel my pain. It was a different story after she was gone and cried and cried and felt I had lost a friend as much as a child. And that's a loss from which I'll never recover. That's what my sister said about you.

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Wow. And realized that she felt that way. There's been pictures painted of my sister as being a callous person, not a good mother. That's the way she felt about all of her kids. That's not the way she felt about the surrogate child. You're not a surrogate child.

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I struggle with her connection with me because of the fact that she got pregnant with me on purpose because she knew she could and she wanted to replace Cheryl and she knew that she would get sympathy from the courts. And a lot of those are in rules words. Those are writers words. Those aren't true, OK. Isn't it? I, I saw something about it. I've never read any rules. There was one of her recordings or something that I thought.

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I don't know, anyways, I I never knew she felt that way. James shifts almost immediately into defensive mode. With regards to Diane, there's a bit of tension between James and Becky, and James is eager to push through his agenda for meeting.

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So when did she write that? About two weeks ago. Well, I asked her to share something with me because she doesn't want. I said the world needs to understand what you felt like when you were having the baby. She can't really talk about when the baby was taken away because she's crying, crying and crying. What else is there to say? She was induced. She didn't have a natural. They told the court before she was convicted. That they're going to take the baby away.

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They told the jurors already finding her guilty before the jurors even started deliberating. It is really interesting, it's very interesting and she did. I don't think the word replace is a good word to say, because you can never replace you with another baby. She can't replace Cheryl with another baby. She can't replace Christie with another baby. You're her daughter and you're very much loved. The state did not want you to be raised by her or see the family.

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So you were given to another family.

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So I feel. A sort of a disconnect I reached out to Diane, I think it's in 2006 and her first couple of letters were, you know, oh my gosh, I've always known where you were. I knew you'd write me someday. They were excited and happy. But now to this day, you know, she denies that I'm her biological child who lives in between two crazy letters, we might say.

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Right.

[00:28:46]

They're pretty intense and threatening and saying that there's been somebody watching me my whole life and trying to kill me. And it's scary stuff.

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Whenever she did that, did you feel like you were watching a movie and that she was threatening you from in the jail? Or did you feel like she was being sincere? She was truly worried for you because, again, she didn't commit this crime. Right. Whoever did this to her is still out there. And if you are her child, in her opinion, then you're in danger.

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Things with James start to grow a bit tense.

[00:29:21]

There's not a single person that I know that is. I'm doing this because the media has been very violent, very vile, and the media is one of the reasons why I don't want to use the word fearful to meet you, but I wasn't looking forward to meeting.

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They go back and forth about the details surrounding Diane's public behavior at the time of the shooting and her seeming lack of emotion when reenacting the scene. Becky pokes holes in James argument for Diane's innocence, which he repeatedly defends.

[00:29:54]

I can tell you that for many years I've been very angry at you, mainly because when I tried to talk to you, you didn't want to talk to me. One of the things that you said was the purpose of doing what you're doing is so you can be sure that Diane does not get parole. Right now, I don't want to be a part of that, I don't want to be a part of somebody that's trying to keep my sister in prison because how she acts is just.

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I've never been so I've never had my child killed in front of me, you know what I mean? And. I just it's just how are you supposed to. Well, you're wrong because you don't know, right? You know what I mean? At this point, the tension is palpable. Straight out the English language. I could not in any way, shape or form be a part of somebody's life. I thought my sister was guilty. I understand that.

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And really, my life is now consumed with my sister, which is why I'm sitting here and what I want, what I believe. Is that. If you looked at not actions and evidence that there be no doubt and she would believe that she's innocent.

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I understand that you came here solely to speak of her innocence and not to meet me. I wanted to reach out to you to give you your voice and to get to know you so that it really hurts. I talked to your dad for years. I don't want to be just some person. And I understand that you're angry. I want to. But why are you here?

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I was in prison. She doesn't want. And I want you to be her mouthpiece. I want you to go out there and tell the world that she didn't do. It becomes clear that James believes, Diane, when she says that whomever she claims is the actual shooter is still out there, a theory he has also adopted.

[00:31:56]

You want me to be an advocate for her? That's right. But that would require me to believe she's innocent. That's right. And why, why, why, why, why, why would I even say that to you if I didn't believe that if you stopped and you looked at what happened here and if you looked at everything that I've got to show you, if you really had an open mind, you weren't thinking about how crazy she was. There is no doubt in my mind that you would be.

[00:32:25]

And then you could use your voice to help get around and see your mother. She's my biological mother, so I don't constantly say mean things about her. I defend her even when people, you know, say horrible things. I say she was in solitary for so long, even a sane person would go crazy. You know, it's those letters that she wrote I. And she also believes she was protecting those letters when she was saying to keep quiet.

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We're talking as he's still out there, she was protecting him. That's part of her theory about what happened to her. OK, and that believes that she's being watched. So she believes that we're also in danger.

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Do you believe that if she was released, she could get help for her mental issues as this? Do you think she would be safe?

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I know it's a really strange talking her at times because as. Incoherent about man watching and things like that, she was so incredibly coherent about if she doesn't talk about that. She's incredibly coherent, incredibly normal. There was finally an opening and Becky decides to ask what she believes is the most important question she has for James yet.

[00:33:42]

Do you know who my biological father is? Sorry. I'm I do know that he was going on an impulse to run. So I know there's only one person that knows we were talking earlier, and it's like the father may not even know he's the father.

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And that's what I'm thinking. It's either he's passed away, he doesn't know or he doesn't want to know.

[00:34:00]

She didn't tell him. She didn't tell him she's pregnant.

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James and Becky finally both have their respective agendas for the conversation out in the open for James Diane's innocence and for Becky, her biological father's identity. James agrees to take a DNA test to help her in her quest.

[00:34:17]

I mean, I think that would be wonderful. It might settle down a little bit to know for real. It might help me find my biological father.

[00:34:26]

Oh, no. I'll let you know your heritage.

[00:34:30]

So that's cool. Yeah, that's what they say. I heard from Denmark.

[00:34:36]

Yeah. About two or three years ago. My dad probably told you. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Denmark, Denmark. Royalty. I don't feel complete. I don't feel complete talking to you. I want to I feel like you judge her because of how she acts and I just. Believe that if you need to open. You're you're looking for things. And I'm not saying you're looking in the wrong area because, no, where you look is wrong.

[00:35:10]

But maybe you need to look at what was done to her, what was done. To her, though, so you can be with her even they stop you from being with her. She didn't stop it. They stopped. James comes a bit and sort of seems to regret being so outwardly aggressive, but still can help pushing his agenda.

[00:35:30]

I mean, I understand that you have a lot of emotion right now. And I'm sorry if I just your emotion. I just need you to really think about you can send it to me, an email and why this is why I think Diane did this.

[00:35:45]

OK. OK. All right. Thank you, guys. I think that's a wrap for today. That was a lot for both of you.

[00:35:55]

No apologies. No, I really, really do care.

[00:36:00]

I don't want you to be sad. I don't want anybody to believe me when I said that.

[00:36:07]

I mean that with my heart, that I believe that you're going to be your voice. I don't I didn't see an invasion or anything. It's just my heart bleeds.

[00:36:17]

Yeah.

[00:36:19]

So we can definitely talk more. We'll follow up on this. It's hard to say if Becky got what she wanted from the interaction with James, it's the first member of the Fredriksson side of the family who's agreed to meet with her and have a real conversation about Diane. So in many ways, is as close as Becky has ever been to the maternal side of her family line, despite the tension between them. James agreed to give Becky a key piece of the puzzle to help confirm her genetic identity.

[00:36:50]

His DNA with this, Becky, will hopefully finally be able to confirm once and for all that she's, in fact, the biological daughter of Diane Downs. On the next episode of Happy Face Presents to Face, we unpack the details of exactly what happened on that fateful night in May of 1983 when Diane Downs and her three children arrived at that Springfield, Oregon, hospital, all with gunshot wounds. What if you can learn from one of the world's most inspiring women now you can introducing Senecas 100 women to hear a new podcast brought to you by Seneca Women and I Heart Radio in celebration of the 100th anniversary of American women getting the vote.

[00:37:51]

We're bringing you the voices of a hundred groundbreaking and history making women. You need to hear women of the past, the present and women who are right now designing our future. Women who've broken barriers in outer space on the Supreme Court and on the playing fields. Through one hundred episodes, you'll get insight into not just what these women accomplished, but how they think about the world. You'll hear about their setbacks, their successes and what they learned along the way.

[00:38:18]

I'm Kim Mazzarelli, co-founder of Seneca Women and co-author of the best selling book Fast Forward. Listen to Senecas 100 Women to hear on the radio app Apple podcasts forever. You get your podcasts. Dear young rocker, season two is a raw, honest, strange and entertaining story about finding yourself in your early 20s and a lifelong relationship with music. It's hosted by me, Chelsea Erson, and it's executive produced by Jake Brennan of Disgraced Land. Dear Young Rocker comes to you from WLS Productions and I Heart Radio.

[00:38:58]

Listen to Dear Young Rocker on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.