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From NPR, this is Hidden Brain, I'm Shankar Vedantam. There is so much in our culture that celebrates the power of positive thinking. We're often told to follow our hearts, to dream big.


You can have do or be anything you want. Whatever belief you hold in your subconscious mind will become your reality.


Bottom line, value yourself and believe in yourself, because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well-worn path.


But now researcher Gabrielle Etienne's says maybe we should all dream a little smaller, positive fantasies and daydreams as pleasurable they are they have a problem when it comes to fulfilling our wishes and attaining our goals.


Today, as part of our You 2.0 series, we bring you an episode from our archive that asks, is there a methodical way to achieve your dreams?


Turns out there is. And this scientific technique has an acronym, WOOP. This message comes from NPR sponsor 3M, who continues to expand production of the respirators front line workers need globally and is on track to deliver two billion by the end of 2020. More at 3M Dotcom's covid 3M Science Applied to life.


Gabriel is a professor at New York University and author of the book Rethinking Positive Thinking Inside the New Science of Motivation. She's from Germany and she said growing up, no one told her to shoot for the stars.


The idea of big dreams, big hopes was, if at all, more implicit and explicit.


When she came to the United States, though, Gabrielle noticed a real cultural difference.


Well, when I came to America, it was wonderful because people always said, yes, do it. Yes, that's possible. Yeah, OK, this is a good idea.


Why don't you do it? Whereas back in Europe, people were more cautious and said, you know, are you sure you want to do this? Are you sure this is possible?


So I was really happy to come to America because people were just sort of encouraging whatever idea you had. So, yes, positive thinking, indulging in fantasies about the future does feel good. But when Gabrielle started to research this topic, she found something interesting. Well, these positive fantasies, they seduce us to feel already accomplished and they take our energy away. So we found that, for example, they're more positively women enrolled in a weight reduction program, fantasized about their success in the program, the few pounds they lost three months later, one year later, two years later, or the more positively university graduate fantasized about an easy transition into work life.


The fewer dollars to earn two years later, the fewer job offers they had gotten and also the fewer job applications they had send out or take students, the more positively they fantasized about getting a good grade in their exam. The less well they did with the more positively they fantasized about getting together with a crushed, the less likely they were to actually get in a romantic relationship or take the health domain. Same thing.


The more positively hip replacement surgery patients fantasized about an easy recovery, the less well could they move. They joined, the fewer steps they could take and the less well they recovered from the surgery.


So when you look at each of these cases, I'm wondering if you could tell me what you mean by a positive fantasy. So let's take the student, for example, who is hoping to go out on a date with someone that he or she likes. You're sort of imagining, for example, going out on the date, things going really well. This other person really liking you as much as you like them.


Yeah, that's a good question, actually. It's not so easy to measure these fantasies. So what we did is we gave participants a short story.


So, for example, in the case of the people who had a crush on someone else, a short story describing how they meet this person and they then needed to end that story. And that story could either end positively or they could end not so positively. So then participants fantasized and wrote down their fantasies about the ending of the story. And the more positively these people had been fantasizing about getting together with their croci, the less likely it was that they actually got together with the person they were in love.


So the idea really is the more idealized, the more positively people fantasize, the less well they do because they don't put in the effort needed to actually reach their goals and fulfilled their wishes.


Now, is it the case that people recovering from example, hip replacement surgery when they have positive fantasies of walking at one level?


You would have to say this is deeply, deeply understandable. You know, your you feel like you can't do the things that you're used to doing. You want to get back on your feet and you want to dream of the day when you would be able to walk or climb stairs or run without pain. Are you saying that that's a bad thing now?


I'm not saying it's a bad thing, actually. We have very nice data showing that these positive fantasies to actually come out of a person's needs. And you are completely right. The person who has the surgery and who used to be able to walk feels a need to walk like before. And they are the positive fantasies come from. And I don't say these are bad things at all because they are the beginning of action, but they are only the beginning.


They give action the direction, but they don't give action the necessary energy. In fact, when we induce participants to positively fantasize to ideally depict the positive future, then we find that the blood pressure goes down and then we find that the feelings of energy can go down and we find that people feel already accomplished. So they relax. They relax because mentally they are ready.


They're. There's something terribly sad about this, which is that the person imagines the happy future, perhaps because they're not very happy at the present, but by so doing, they in some ways deprived themselves of the energy and motivation they need to make their futures actually better and thereby make their futures worse. It feels like a vicious cycle. Well, it is not so sad if you consider that if you actually compliment these positive fantasies with considerations of what stands in the way, what is it in you that stands in the way that you actually fulfill your wishes and attain your goals, that then you'll actually get the energy.


And if these goals are attainable, then you really go for it. When we come back, we'll talk about the next steps to make that dream a reality. You think about the next four weeks now, in the next four weeks, what is your most important wish? Stay with us. This message comes from Western Governors University, G.U. is a non-profit university committed to helping you reach your academic goals at an affordable price. They charge a flat rate tuition for every six month term, meaning the more courses you complete each term, the more affordable your degree becomes.


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Gabrielle Etienne has found that positive thinking, while fun, may not be the best answer to achieving your goals, but she does say that noticing your goals, thinking about what it is you want, can be a very important first step in making those dreams a reality.


You've done a lot of work looking not just at the potential downside of these positive fantasies, but also how we can use these positive fantasies in a very productive way. And you call it mental contrasting. What is mental contrasting? Mental contrasting is a strategy to fulfill your wishes and attain your goals. So you first identify a wish, a wish that is very dear to you. So, for example, you think about the next four weeks now, in the next four weeks, what is your most important wish?


Can be a professional wish, can be an interpersonal which can be helped with this, which should be a wish that is a little challenging for you, but that you actually can fulfill yourself. Now, identify that wish and keep it in front of your mind. What you do then is you think about what would be the best thing, the best outcome if I fulfilled myself that wish. And once you identified that and put it in front of your mind, then you imagine that best thing if you recognized now imagining the best thing is like positively fantasizing.


These are the positive daydreams we're just talking about. But then instead of carrying on with these positive fantasies, you know, switch gears and you say to yourself, actually, what stops me from fulfilling my wish and experiencing that outcome?


What is it in me that stands in the way? What is my inner obstacle? What is it in me? And then once you identified your inner obstacle, you need a little bit of humor and a little bit of honesty to yourself, sometimes it's not so pleasant. You don't need to tell anybody, but you can identify that obstacle. And then you say to yourself, if that obstacle occurs, then I will show a behavior or I think that's hard to overcome that obstacle.


So if obstacle, then our behavior to overcome obstacle. And that's what in signs language is called mental, contrasting with implementation intentions. And forget this complicated name is called in the Signs Digitizer MCE, but we renamed it now and it's called Now Rup for wish. First we started with a wish outcome. We then went on to identify that outcome and imagine that outcome obstacle. Remember the obstacle identified the obstacle. Imagine the obstacle and then the plan, the if obstacle.


Then I will overcome plan and that's called hope. I ask Gabrielle how she would apply her strategy to someone who has a crush on another person, but instead of doing something about it, just sits around daydreaming about a blissful honeymoon. How would that person use mental contrasting or group to achieve their goals? So let's say you have a young person, a student who is interested in another person. And so the wish would be, you know, I want to go with him or with her on a date and want to explore a little bit deeper what that person is all about.


So that would be the wish. The best outcome might be something like, you know, we would have a really good time and we would feel kind of in harmony. But then the person would change gears and say, what is it in me that stands in the way that I actually fulfill my wish that I asked this person out for a date and experience the harmony. So what is it in me that stands in the way? And then the person might discover, hmm, I might feel too shy or I'm a little bit anxious, reluctant to get a rejection, and then the person can elaborate on that shyness to be rejected or that fear of rejection can really elaborate on it.


Kind of understand. Oh, yeah, this fear. That's my obstacle. And after that, the person could think, what can I do to overcome this fear of rejection? So what can the person do? The person can sort of understand, well, if the person rejected me, then I'm there where I'm right now, because if I don't talk to that person, I don't I will not meet the person anyway. So I can't really lose anything.


And then he or she could do the if then plan. If I feel that fear of rejection, then I will tell myself, just go to that person and approach him or her because I can't lose anything. And then the person will not unconsciously, outside of awareness, approach that person by sort of overcoming one's fears of rejection.


One of the things that I find so striking is that third step doesn't involve saying what are the obstacles in my path? But you ask, what are the obstacles in me that prevent me from achieving this goal? That's correct, because the obstacles in me doesn't allow me to come up with all these excuses. So if I say what are the obstacles in my path, I could say, well, this person is in a different building or whatever, or studies a different topic or I don't have the time or I'm just busy right now.


And all these excuses, they fall away. If you ask what is it in you that stands in the way? What is it really that stands in the way? Now, you extract the information out of that negative feedback without getting hurt. So you don't take it personally, but you take the information encompassed in this negative feedback and you use it to make the correct plans. Has metal contrasting changed anything that you do? Well, I'm I'm using, Wolf, on a daily basis, and we have devised next to the book, we have devised an app which gives you the instructions of contrasting with implementation and intentions of hope.


So it leads you through the four steps which outcome? Obstacle, plan. And interestingly enough, I thought I'm an expert on poop, but I'm using the app every day. Actually, I'm using the app because it forces me to specify my wish, to specify my outcome, to imagine the outcome, to specify my inner obstacle, to imagine the inner obstacle and to form a very specific if obstacle. Then I will behavior to overcome obstacle plan. So I do it every morning.


Other people do it in the evening or, you know, during lunch break or when they wait for the bus or in the subway. What do you need, though, for doing what you need to have a quiet moment for yourself. You can be in the subway when everybody is talking, but you need to be uninterrupted. You can't do your email. You can't talk to someone while you're doing well. So you need to have a moment for yourself where you think, what is my wish?


What is my wish for today? Or you might think, what is my wish for the next four weeks or what do I want in life? What is it really that I want? So you can group very big wishes or you can group travel wishes. But what is important, it needs to be a wish which is dear to your heart. And the nice thing with hope is that it also allows you to finally think about what do I really want?


Gabrielle Etienne is a professor of psychology at New York University. This episode of Hidden Brain was produced by Maggie Penman and Max WesTrac, our team includes Tara Boyle, Raina Coen, Jenny Schmitt, Patricia Thomas, Luke Laura caught out and catch up OPNET. This week's unsung hero is Jessica Goldstein, who is director of NPR's Events and Strategic Initiatives since the pandemic began. Jessica and her team have pivoted to virtual events, bringing the same creativity and enthusiasm to everything they do.


Jessica, as someone who dots the I's, crossing the T's and then goes back and crosschecks everything again. Thanks, Jessica. For more hidden brain, you can follow us on Facebook and Twitter, if you like this episode, please be sure to share it with a friend. Next week, we wrap up our new 2.0 series by looking at ways we can invite more empathy into our lives. Please join us then. I'm Shankar Vedantam and this is NPR.


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