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Certificates and degrees don't get to jobs, and neither does learning how to code. There is no magic pill that gets you to where you want to go other than being the best version of you that you can be mastering.

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Our psychology emotions and collaborating with good people are three of the largest challenges that each of us faces as a human.

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So how do you build or join a squad of minded good people who are going to understand you, who are going to get you? How do you master your psychology and your emotions, especially during such challenging times? We talk about that today with our guest, Reuben Harris, the co-founder and CEO of Career. Originally from Atlanta, Rubin tells his story of getting started at a Montessori school, working traditional jobs, breaking into tech, and then going on to become one of the most authentic value creators and connectors in Silicon Valley.

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We talk about tips to become a super learner and create value in a non transactional way. We discuss the unbundling of higher education and how the unbundling of it is creating critical opportunities in a multitrillion dollar market. Plus, we talk about blue zones.

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This is a term researchers coined to designate areas of the world where people routinely live to be 100 plus years old. Rubin discusses how a learning practice from a specific Japanese blue zone helped inspire their company model and how you can go about thinking, employing this strategy in your own life. We also cover ideas to build a healthy psychology and manage your emotions by allowing ourselves to cry and recognize those who have supported us the most. Now let's jump in to today's episode of Hidden in Plain Sight with our guest, Reuben Harris.

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This season of Hidden in Plain Sight is brought to you exclusively by our friends at Splunk. The Data to Everything platform Splunk helps organizations worldwide turn data into doing its time for data to be more than a record of what happened.

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It's time to make things happen. Learn more at Splunk Dotcom or by clicking the link in our show notes. Ruben, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me on the show, brother. So it's rare that I get to talk to somebody that's played cello for twenty five years. Is this still 25 or how long you been playing?

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Almost 30 years now. Oh, wow. I was surprised when I was four. I just turned 33 last October that year. So it'll be October next year will be 30 years. So, yeah, that is a long, long time.

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What got you into cello? Was there classical music, inspiration? The family did.

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When your parents or somebody just want you to play it was that origin like, yes, my parents for shows and I was going to Montessori school. I really liked the Montessori model, by the way, which we don't have to go to now. But I want the Montessori school and there was a violin teacher there and my mother asked her if she also plays like another instrument and she happened to also teach cello very well and is volleyball. And so, yeah, that's how I started playing.

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So it wasn't anything pseudoscientific. My mom just wanted to give us things that nobody could take away from us but herself. And so music was a requirement for every single member of our family. And so I played cello. My brother plays so my sister plays violin. And we both we all speak Spanish. So that was that was the question. I happened to be good at it and I'm very good at cello, so. Yeah, yeah.

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That principle or mindset, you develop skills and develop things that nobody can take away from you. It doesn't go out of style. It's something that is a foundation foundation for many other things. So I think it's fascinating that you were getting your start in Montessori schools and that your mother was open to that because I think so many parents now, they're still kind of leaning towards the traditional models. What is Montessori like for you and how is it different than some of the traditional models that we see out there?

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My story's been around for one hundred years. And what I like about my story is that they teach you how to learn, but they also really help you discover and to kind of create your own creation. Only there's mixed age classrooms, which I think is really, really important. There's a lot of things around play, which I think is important because a lot of times we are taught how to do things out of a textbook. And when you're playing things with things and you recognizing that your contributions to the world don't just affect you, but they affect the world in a certain way with people of all ages, I think I think it matters a lot.

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I would have said I'm an expert on all the principles of Montessori because I K-12 isn't like my my domain. But I do know that I like the emphasis on independence. Working with kids that are older, kids that are younger and understanding that I can contribute to society in a positive or negative way has been instilled in me from a young age.

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Yeah, I think mastery schools are kind of the apex of this, the play movement and the self directed learning. And what's so fascinating about that is, you know, getting your start in Montessori, I think has led you to a really fun trajectory where if I study your bio, your background, you've done a lot of different things and worked in a lot of disparate fields. I think so often we find people, even entrepreneurs, they get kind of pigeonholed into this like one specific industry where you've worked in many, whether it's investment banking, media podcasting, you've worked for senior living facilities, help booking celebrities and setting up concerts and gigs and things of that nature.

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Tell us a little bit about your career journey and how you went from Montessori to kind of breaking into tech.

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And I think to your point, when you put them all in there, like several elements, it doesn't really make a lot of sense. But one that you tell the story, you can always, like, tie it together. Sure. And I think you did it the right way because, like, I've always had a plan for what I wanted to do in my life. But things don't always go according to plan. And so you always have to adapt to what's happening.

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Right. Like going back to the monastery was like, you've got to you've got to respect things around and you got to understand it. Like, you can't control everything no matter how good you are. There's always going to be the unexpected interactions. And you got to understand it. We have freedom within limits. And we and we have to understand how to leverage the constraints of this world to achieve our purpose. And so and I think about my career.

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I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. But I always recognize that if I wanted to be an entrepreneur and build something this massive and last for hundreds of years, it requires an understanding of how the game is played and like how the game is played outside of tech is different than how the game was played into it. And I grew up in Atlanta. And when the when the tech company was coming up, the tech industry would have grown up with the tech Beaujon and when I was in Chicago, 1871 was getting exhausting, like different things happening in the tech world.

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And so I knew that if I wanted to be in the tech world, I had to learn certain skill sets. So it was either going to be learning how to sew or code. I had to have a strong network. I had to be able to tell a good story and I had to have some type of credibility that people respected and that I wanted to get close to to get into those networks. And so historically, when you think about credentials, you think about the university or college.

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There's credentials of socializing. There's no work for me. I knew that I wasn't going to be able to become who I want to be, but I'm just up for my degree. My GPA covered a terrible GPA and went to school that nobody's ever heard of. And I'm actually very not bullish on credentials because there's over seven hundred thirty thousand credentials with limited transparency and outcomes. So for me, I wanted to pick companies where there were people that can give me a strong network that had credibility in the market, which led me to in the beginning, starting at well known investment banks.

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So people can think that I work hard and are smart and not just thing, so that people know that I work hard and that I'm smart and that I can achieve what I could accomplish in the amount of time. But also when I was in tech that I worked at companies that were well funded, solving problems that were fundamental to humanity, that position me well to do what I ultimately wanted to do. So my my mantra for where I wanted to work were companies solving problems for themselves, hierarchy of needs that by top tier investors with the standard that had a problem themselves with a team that's done it before and a place where I could contribute not just in a small way, but in a big way.

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So that that was my way of taking companies. And then through that process, I met my co-founders and that's where I am now.

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Yeah, I love that framework for decision making in analyzing different companies that you might join. And it's it's a very sounds like a mutually beneficial one where it's symbiotic not just for you, but for all the folks in the company as well.

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It's really cool. When you were coming out to Silicon Valley or considering it, I think I heard that you sent a tweet to Buyology or you basically just sparked up a conversation that got you, you know, an opening to come out to Silicon Valley. Tell us a little bit about that and kind of what your thinking is there when it comes to talking to who you want to and starting the conversations that you want to.

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Yeah, I think each one of us is natural as some of this not natural to everyone else. I think each one of us also has been given. Are unique struggles for a reason. And once you've centered on the struggle that you've dealt with the most of what you feel is your purpose and what you feel, that you are the best in the world at what you are naturally gifted at. I think it's important to dominate that image, to dominate that quality and like position yourself as someone that's known of this subject.

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And so the way that I was able to get in front of biology before he was like this was like right when he was general partner for Andriessen. I just tweeted about things that he was excited about that I was also excited about where I knew that I could add a lot of value. And just Twitter is probably one of the most powerful networking like platforms ever, like even above LinkedIn. And I think that everybody should have a Twitter account if they want to be in tech, because all the gatekeepers in tech are on Twitter.

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I would say all of them, but most of them. So if you're able to create a following, that's interesting, especially if it's a subject that positioned well for the future, you're going to you're going to get attention. And so over time, after he gets between different things, I will get more people following me. And then he would be me. And then we would talk back and forth like that's that's that's how how it happened. And then when they do respond to you and they give you advice, you want to really act on the advice that you're given.

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So many people are looking for mentors and then they get the advice and then they reject the advice and they don't do it. So I'm a true believer. Obviously, you're not going to do everything everybody tells you, but it's very important to act on the best that you give for sure.

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And just that a willingness to be coached is crucial, right? Humility to say, OK, I don't understand everything out there and somebody that's done it before as a high likelihood of understanding this.

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So tell us a little bit about coach ability, because for all of us, right, there's that neverending battle between ego, between, you know, our aspirations and trying to find the right balance of coach ability. How have you fought to remain coachable as you're going through this process of building your own company, which is, of course, incredibly challenging?

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I like thinking about coach ability because coaching is like key to, I think, humanity. I think about where we are in the labor market today. What's happening to the labor market is very similar to what happened. One free agency was introduced into sports, but before you could be the hometown hero and you stay in one one team forever. But then when you go to where we are today with free agency, you can be like LeBron and could be in Miami, Cleveland, you could be a Lakers.

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But coach who already has star athletes is they always have coaches. The best coaches are player coaches. I think that if the most elite people are able to coach and are coachable, shouldn't everybody need a coach? Right. And you can see the people that resisted coaching that are great players like for like Allen Iverson, for example. I'm not a huge fan of Allen Iverson or Mike Vick back in the day. And big fan of music, too. But like, you know, whenever you resist coach ability, you think that you can never learn and that you don't realize that the fact that you can learn from anybody and you don't respect your environment, which goes back to the Montessori thing, then you're self limiting yourself.

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Right. It's super important to be coachable and recognize that you can grow from anyone and anybody can be your coach. And I'm a true believer.

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Yeah, you said a number of things there that are fascinating, especially the free agent aspect of the career world. This is changing rapidly. And for the first time, we have a much more fluid and dynamic career market. So as a CEO of Career Kharma, what type of trends are you seeing? What type of data are you seeing about how big this shift is into everybody becoming more of a free agent and companies becoming tech companies basically or digitizing or going to the cloud, whatever you want to describe it as, whatever trends are you seeing?

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Well, speaking of digital learning and like where we're at, you know, there's over one point five billion students now that now have to study online due to school closures caused by covid-19. So I think that's number one. And that's also driving the unbundling of higher education. So when you think about higher education, they're going through an existential crisis right now. It's August, and a lot of schools are just deciding whether they're going to be open, whether they're going to be closed, whether they're going to go online and have a hybrid or they're going to reduce tuition, keep staff, no cost staff to support whatever.

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And so now that we're. Online, what you what you're actually seeing is an increase in fragmentation. So there's no monopoly on education, like no one school can teach the entire world. And so the shift to online higher education means that each institution is now competing with 10 to 100 Exmoor institutions than in the physical context, like online books. In the last seven years before covid had about 100 million learners. But now since covid, we're up to three hundred million monthly visits globally as learners seek solutions.

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So what do you think about that stage? The problem on the school side is how do you differentiate yourself? So you've got to like really get to that marketing digitally and then on the individual side. It's difficult to figure out which credentials best for you, what industry is aligned with your school, your interest. Does the program format fit for you and your family with it's part time, full time self-paced was the completion rate. What's the average salary and what are these jobs?

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Right. Like if you want to get in tech, if you if you never heard of a product manager or UI, UX or engineering. There's a lot of lack of awareness and perception which which makes people scared because not only do you have to find a program, you have to find a program that you can trust because there's a lot of scamming programs that are out there that will charge you money just for a credential and no job. So I think I think that's that's what we're living in.

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I think you can see the before Korona, you know, the digital learning market was growing pretty nicely, but after disease, you're starting to see the digital learning markets grow so much to take to e-commerce, where currently the digital learning market is about 160 billion, but is a growing 30 percent, where by twenty twenty six it's projected to be a trillion dollar market alone. And and currently it's only two point three percent of the larger global market, which is currently seven trillion, the massive market.

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And so that's the stage that we're in right now.

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It's exciting times for sure. And what you said is fascinating about the unbundling of higher education. Right, because that's it's been happening slowly, but now it seems to be happening all at once. What type of hope do you see for a future where, you know, do you see a future of small schools being feasible, i.e., like small groups of people still meeting up in person to do certain things, like within social distance guidelines? What are you thinking about for the future of like coming together to learn?

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Because it's pretty up in the air at this point.

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I think, number one, the debate about whether school is for job or just to learn and socialize is starting to be immediately clear that like most people are looking for a job, whether it's college, whether it's graduate school, what's the trade school period? And like, these are facts, right? Forty three percent of college grads are underemployed in their first year. So that's that's something to keep in mind. Also, what do you think about the jobs that are being created by jobs that require more education and a high school diploma or less in a four year bachelor degree, like?

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Forty eight percent of the new jobs that are being created between twenty, twenty, fourteen and twenty four. Twenty four are going to be middle skill jobs. And so I think that currently what you have to do is not just match people with the training that's best for them. You've got to put them in these small groups, like you said, that are people that are like them. And the reason why I think that's important is because psychology is key to a labor transition with career.

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Croma, we've been doing this for a long time. You know, we call it a squad. It's not a career. Comiso If I'm a mom, I'll connect with other moms from a dad. I'll connect with other dads from 50 years old up in the coast where Code Grey Squad and things like that in Harvard Business School have done a case study about career that they're going to be teaching in the fall related to this concept. The was where we got the squad concept.

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Was from our own experience, so my co-founders and I went through various sets of books, so my brothers went to a book and my co-founders want to have that an advocate. I mean, there's a big focus on making it very clear that certificates and degrees don't get your jobs, and neither does learning how to code. Building companies is a team sport and you have to know how to work with other people. And it's not just about working with a players, it's about working with people that you have chemistry with.

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And so since most people have not that haven't gone to college or most people that haven't gone to one of these alternative or gotten into tech don't know people that are already in tech, a lot of times you'll feel like a fish out of water. You'll feel like this imposter syndrome. And so a lot of people will drop out of the middle of a career transition if they don't have that community. And something that is a big factor of university is socialization.

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So what you hear a lot is like the learning part is now not just for college, but also for K-12 and home school. That's like a very big term right now. But where we got the concept actually came way before this and it goes back to Japan. So I study there's a there's a good article about this called The Power of Positive People that you should check out. But it's in Japan and Okinawa, Japan. The women lived the longest.

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They lived to 90, 90 years old, plus some blues also. And they had this concept called a mowad is easier to get through life knowing that you have a safety net. And so from birth, they commit to each other in groups of five professionally, socially, emotionally, financially, blah. And that group that PAE, that squad stays with them forever and is a key to a lot of factors, not just professionally or educationally, but also to life extension.

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So that's how we base our squad. And so we've actually digitized this small community, which helps with retention and completion of the program and ultimately finding jobs so exciting and so timely.

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Right. In an age where everything's moving fast, it's good to have a long term view, nothing better than to think about what's going on in these blue zones and how can we replicate this across the world. Yeah, so that is a great place to look for these ideas. And I love how you branded death squads. So give me a couple of examples of where if you have a good squad in terms of people with similar backgrounds and interests and where they're at in life, how can they get over some of the psychological hurdles required during this transitionary time when they're, you know, upskilling or they're breaking into attack or maybe they're just trying to get a promotion?

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I mean, let's say that I got a felony on my record or that I was formerly incarcerated. The way that society grants people to have felonies on their record, psychologically, you're going to be like, is this really possible for me? And that's not just across one race. That's like every race I get people from every race and every religion. This is one example. And if I could show you people that are working at companies like Dropbox and Zoome today that are formerly incarcerated, that are working, that's going to give you confidence because you're like, wow, this person overcame this hurdle.

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It is possible for me to possibly do another thing, like another example of like having bad credit. Like you'd be surprised how many people have bad credit, are nervous and like like there's there's a lot of these programs even within an that has a job guarantee that doesn't charge you money unless you get a job that will reject you if you have bad credit. And people assume that if you have bad credit that you're not dependable, you're not consistent with your income.

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And people come to career come all the time with that issue. And a recent example is a guy named Jeff Warren. He had very bad credit and for dramatic reasons why he had five people die in his family and he had to take care of all of them in a matter of five years. And he came to us and then got a job in a year making one hundred forty five thousand dollars. But that was after exploring other programs that wouldn't accept them, cut it his bad credit.

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And so, like, if you if you're connecting with other people that have gone through your shared struggle, they can actually you can crowdsource solutions to your obstacles. Right. So, like, if I'm a mom and child care is an issue, but I'm in a group with other moms that are making their dreams happen, they might have multiple potential schedules that I can use in order to create a blueprint for my career transition. And I, as the founder of career, can never relate to a mob because I'm not a mom.

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You see what I'm saying? Definitely, yeah.

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And it's it's the type of mentality, too, that anyone can start to pursue today. Right. Like it's not going to be. It's going to make your life, you know, a poor quality if you start to really get conscious about building your squad in the real world, whether that's like professional based or, you know, expanding your family. So when it comes to building your squad of mentors of friends and the pod that you're learning in, how do you go about that process now?

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I think that building the squad digitally is the same as building a squad and the quote unquote real world. And I know that sounds crazy because what we're talking about here with career accomplished, not second life, this is not The Sims. This is not like your virtual friends in Minecraft or you call of duty friends that you play. On a game and then like. You go back into your real world and just like pass the time until you go back and see a video game like this is these are real life connections that are in your neighborhood that you can turn into your world.

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The way I think about building my personal squad is not just with my co-founders, but I think about a personal board of directors. When I think about a personal board of directors, I think about a real board of directors like, yeah, you want people that can help you scale a company. You want to you want people that understand at tech. You want to have people that understand labor markets, but you might want to people that have a completely different perspective that's outside of your industry that can give you guidance.

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If media is a big issue or a big piece of your your company, you might want to have somebody who's really good at media is building community is a big part of your your company. You might want to have somebody like Acquaro from already that really understands communities. So as you think about who you are, like you mentioned my my career in the beginning and the companies that I work for. Yes. It's a bunch of different companies. But like I think in the future, we're all going to be frank and people.

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Right. We're all going to want to achieve a certain goal. We all do want to achieve a certain goal. And there are certain skill sets and certain relationships that we need in order to achieve our purpose. And so what do you think about crafting your personal board of directors? Think about who are the people you would never be able to hire into your company or into your personal network that you can build relationships with? And I talk about this in our first Bagenstos blog post and then like, get cool with them.

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You don't have to call it a mentor relationship. You can check in with them once a year, twice a year, maybe four times a year. But that personal board of directors is going to be crucial to your future. And it should not be a transactional relationship. It should not be tit for tat. It should be just real, genuine, high quality like friendships. I love it.

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And so did you always have this ability to kind of build relationships? When did you first develop this skill and how did you build on it from being a young person to where you're at today? What were some of the missteps you made in building your own squad and what were some of the victories you won along the way?

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I've always been natural at it. I think that's definitely one of my superpowers. I think Chello helped a lot because as a black fellas and growing up in Atlanta, I've always been in different worlds where I've been and like this different world where the weather is a classical music world, a hip hop or B, world, jazz or world. Whatever you like, I've always been able to adapt and interact in any environment. Missteps. The reason why I like this question is of missteps is it reminds me of a conversation I had with Justin Rosenstein, who is the co-founder of Asthana, the Facebook IPO.

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And it was one of my first roommates in the Bay Area. And I'll tell you what he told me in a second. But I also have one of my local close to a man named Jane you that got me my first job in tech school. And she came up to me and said, Ruban, like somebody came up to me and said that you are one of the most networked people in the Bay Area, Silicon Valley, like, you know, everybody.

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And it really upset me. And I was like, well, you mean she was like, I don't want people to think of you as the most networked person or the the connector, the plug. I want people to see you as a beautiful human being that cares about people, that wants to help them with no expectation of return. And because of that. You are the most connected, and I was like, OK, got it. And then I said that that comment with Justin Rosenstein while we were chilling at the house, this house caught Agapa.

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And we were I was telling him about this concept called the emotional bank account, where you have like deposits and withdrawals. And then it comes from the seven habits of highly effective people. We're talking about, like the importance of making positive contributions to relationships, because if you ever make a withdrawal, then like you're not going to be a deficit and it's going to be no conflict in the relationship. And I think it's healthy to understand the emotional bank account and and how you would think about that.

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But when I said that would just as you say, is too transactional, like it's way too like formulaic. We're not like human beings. There are formulas that you would follow in order to crack codes. Like if you go through life treating everything like a transaction, you're not going to be fully living your life. You shouldn't be using people like you. On the flip side, there's a great quote by commentators as if you're not using a useless but you do want to recognize it.

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Like there's a lot of value in just doing things to help people feel a great human being, helping people that. Karma builds up because back to you later for sure, and just that mentality to of kind of getting lost in the service and the value creation is it's almost like the best medicine. Right. And any time you're feeling down, it's just a guaranteed path to opening your eyes again about what's important.

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So. Being a CEO, founding a company, moving across the country, obviously not the easiest things in the world. Have there been any dark nights of the soul for you on this journey? And if so, what are some of the things you did to get through them?

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Yeah, man, for sure. I mean, a thing as a CEO, you know what one of your job is to tell a story on a company that's way you do podcast like this. One of the jobs is making money for the company. And that's why a lot of CEOs come from a sales background. So they've got to make sure your revenues grow. And then another job is like capitalizing the company in addition to like making strategic capitalizing companies like raising money for the company.

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Since all of that is key to a company and like you have especially raising capital is key to the company, you've got to realize that a lot of people are depending on your success. If Daddy doesn't come home and bring the bacon, nobody's. You also recognize that like it's not just you like it's a team effort. You're working with everybody. If everybody's not hitting their goals properly, like you can't raise the money. But like there there have been some this I mean, I remember when I was fundraising at the beginning.

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And wasn't wasn't resonating with a lot of people, especially before covid hit, a lot of people didn't really understand cancer or essays and things like that. Now everybody does. And so our time it looks like we say the timing is perfect, which it is. But before, when you're insanely early to something and a lot of people don't understand what you're building and you're getting all these rejections man hours, man, especially with people that you grew up with and or or investors that you've known that told, you know, you know.

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But I think understanding that those turned to yeses and that and seeing it, seeing those knows of the challenge to become a better communicator, that that's how I took it as to be a better communicator. It teaches you to grow in ways that you've never gone before. But I've had plenty of teary nights for sure. I've had plenty of of of angry nights as well. And I think managing your psychology, the biggest thing is that you need to master on this journey.

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Couldn't agree more.

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So when it comes to mastering your psychology or bouncing back after tyrannized, angry night, whatever the case might be, what are some things that you do? I've got my go to things and everybody out there should be thinking about what they do and how it's working. But I would love to hear you talk about kind of what are your go to methods, ways, habits to bounce back when I'm in my darkest time.

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I pray and I ask people to pray for me, especially like the people that I know that are really into spiritually, that are like very successful, that I know will pray for me. Like all good examples like Jason Martin, who used to be the global brand director for Jordan Brown Immaculate. I don't even have to ask him to pray for me. He'll send me a random and text saying, what can I pray for? And when I ask them to do it, he will immediately send me a voicemail so I can hear the prayer.

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And it gives me chills, like immediately even just thinking about it, cause it causes a lot of emotions. Just think about there's a lot of power in recognizing that what we're building is not just a company, it's a mindset, it's a movement. I truly believe what I'm building is part of my purpose. I was I was made to do this. And so that reminder. Wakes you up. The wakes you up. Creation is a spiritual exercise, for sure.

[00:34:59]

Yeah, exactly. Creation is spiritual. Yeah, I like that one. Have a harder friend that way without understanding that is is key. So that's one thing that I do. I've been playing the cello is great. I think it's a great way to express yourself. Sometimes I get caught up playing the same music, which isn't the same as kind of like saying a repetitive prayer. It's not the same, but I'm not the best at improv cello.

[00:35:27]

So sometimes if the cello isn't doing what I needed to do, I try to search for different music. That is therapy and music form. It's another thing. Exercise is definitely like super, super important for me. Like I'm angry. Like getting a solid asala sweat really helps me a lot. Jujitsu, whenever I'm on my game helps a lot. Very a lot. Mentally watching movies is helpful, especially Annemasse. There's a lot of really good things that you can learn from animals that help you to overcome and get you and give you the will to fight.

[00:36:06]

Also, like speaking to the most powerful woman in my life, whether that's my mother, my grandmother found female founder mentors. The reason why I like speaking to mothers are investors. Female investors is a lot of times they're more mature and more in tune with their emotions. Very collaborative. And a lot of times there's a shared struggle to being from an underestimated background where they also have chips on their shoulder. And they also have to overcome a lot of things that that remind me that we're in this together and I am a true product of the matriarch.

[00:36:43]

So I shot up a woman. And then other than that, I'll let myself cry. I'll let myself cry. I think as men, it's very easy to pretend that we got to be strong without showing emotions. But I think as a child, as someone that understands the importance of emotion, that can drive you to do things that were historically seen as a possible, it's like adrenaline, right, to save a child that's in danger. Right.

[00:37:12]

It's like you need you need to let that out. So that's what I said.

[00:37:17]

Exploring those emotions could not agree more. That's something that I think men need to model more and just talk about and not be afraid to say, yeah, I cried it out and I felt way better afterwards. Yeah. Because given given ourselves that permission to to do it, to talk about it and then be proud when we share that, we do do it. I feel like that's a really positive way of that we can send throughout the culture. Ruban, this has been a really awesome conversation.

[00:37:43]

I appreciate you being generous with your time here when it comes to the future and making plans and thinking long term. What are you excited about right now? What is giving you energy during these crazy times that we're living in?

[00:37:58]

Well, I think that as the founder of a company that can help people find a quality job, training programs and employment in the short amount of time during a time of massive unemployment is a huge blessing. You know, for the people that don't know career from matches, career transition to job training programs. So they get high paying jobs in tech in about a year. And so, like when you have fifty four million Americans have lost jobs and you have over half a million people coming to Karakol a month and growing like by the end of the summer, we'll have over a million people a month coming to us.

[00:38:37]

That's a huge responsibility. I get energy from my work because I get to help people do what they love. In a world where most people are doing what they love, I help people put food on the table for their families, help people not just do this as individuals, but recognize that they have power as a collective. And I'm excited to see that growth. I'm excited to see this be not just a v.C fundable issue or a corporate issue.

[00:39:08]

This is a huge focus for non-profits, for government. It's not just in the United States, but globally. And we will be a conduit, a trusted conduit for all job training forever and ever. And I'm and I'm just grateful to be part of that solution.

[00:39:27]

When you look out at what's going on in the business world right now, are there any thing that you're seeing that you feel like, you know, this is a secret that more people need to be aware of? Are there any is there any, like, final story you want to leave our listeners with about, you know, what is possible? How can we kind of shift people's mindsets out there about what is possible and story come to mind or final thought?

[00:39:53]

I think that the thing that. People most often get confused as what we talked about earlier, where life certificates and degrees don't get to jobs and neither does learning how to code. There is no magic pill that gets you to where you want to go other than being the best version of you that you can be. A lot of people overemphasize skills training. And they under emphasize the importance of presenting yourself as a likable, coachable person that likes to work with other people.

[00:40:27]

People want to work with people that they like. That's the secret. But if everybody that's applying to a company all has the same skills and the same level of experience, the same credentials. The reason why someone is going to get hired over somebody else is who they are as a person, as a musician. I think about the labor markets, very similar to the music industry, where the people that you hear on the radio aren't the best musicians.

[00:40:54]

And they didn't go to Juilliard. They just know how to make songs that people like. And often the only reason why they're able to do well is because they they packaged it well. They look good. They know how to dance. They know how to get creative with the distribution or whatever. So you've got to get your demo tape right. And then you've got to play a demo tape to the right people that can vouch for you to get your record deal.

[00:41:20]

Like you're not going to get a record deal by playing on deaf websites and have it happen. So I think the secret of being the best version of you that you can be and playing songs that people like and not overemphasizing where you went to school to learn your music skills, are you coding skills or just even relying on your ability to play music is a secret that a lot of people don't exercise enough.

[00:41:45]

Rubin wise words. Appreciate this time and thank you for joining us. Thank you, Matt. I'm Sophia Bush, and you've been listening to Hidden in Plain Sight from Mission Dog. This podcast is sponsored by our friends at Splunk, the Data to Everything platform. In today's data driven world, every company, big or small newworld, is sitting on terabytes of unused, untapped and unknown data. Splunk helps turn all that data into action. Using cutting edge AI and machine learning, Splunk delivers Real-Time predictive insights that will help you on your mission to change the world.

[00:42:24]

With solutions for I.T. security, Internet of Things and business operations, Splunk empowers people to make faster, better decisions and take action to get things done. It's time for our data to be more than a record of what happened.

[00:42:37]

It's time to make things happen. Check it out. It's buncombe.