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Hello and welcome to our diner. I'm Garrett, and I'm Sabrina. And today in our three hundred and twenty seventh episode, we have a bunch of news, including a really crazy article about whether something was gastro Lilith's or gemstones or something.


I would have never expected. That would be a controversy. We also have an update on the preparation of that massive block full of multiple Utahraptor individuals. And we have an interview with Rebecca Slater, a.k.a. Chidgey, who's the art director and one of the two founding members of Path of Titans, a really cool upcoming dinosaur video game where you play as a dinosaur.


Yes. And we have a dinosaur of the day, it's a gong a saurus, or maybe it's Gong Congo saurus. Not sure how it colonized, but more on that later.


Before we get into all of that, we want to thank some of our patrons. And this week, we want to thank Stegall Steve to placate Gabe, Ellen, Kallum, water source, Yumi, Daniel McGill, Stefaan and Vickerman Karthick. Yeah.


Thank you so much. We appreciate all of your support. And it's because of your support that we're able to do cool things like talk to the creators of Path of Titans and other cool dinosaur things.


Everything's cool. Yeah.


Speaking of cool things, we're ten patrons away from our Q&A that we're going to do on YouTube. So if you want to join in on that Q&A action, please join. We'll have it open to everybody. But we're going to start with the patron questions just in case we're short on time. So if you want priority question asking and to help us get to the reward where we do the Q&A, please consider joining the Patriot. Yep, that's it.


Patriot dotcoms. I know Dynel. So I'm going to start today, got a really quick update on the Utahraptor mega block fossil project, it's not too much to say, but I wanted to remind people that it exists, things are happening, and there's a lot of great things in the works.


So as of the beginning of this year, they put in over three thousand five hundred hours into preparing the fossil that was mostly done by Scott Magin. I expect there to be many thousands of hours left based on how big this block is and how much is in it.


Yeah, I forget the exact size, but it's many tons. And I think of it as just like a giant cube of rock.


It's probably not like a perfect cube shape. Yeah, but in my head that's what it looks like, just a huge block and then just many layers of Utahraptor all stuck in this giant block and Iguanodon to Iguanodon in there.


Cool. Yeah. So they're using photogrammetry to make 3D models of the block as it's being prepared, just like we were talking about last week.


Yeah, but as it's going and have an infinite number of versions of your 3D model of the block as it can actually.


And then you can see OK, how are these fossils placed, what might that mean. All kinds of things to study later. You can actually see some of the models on SketchUp now.


Oh cool. Yeah, that's really handy because when you've got something like this as more of a bone bed and you're trying to piece together which animal had which bone, having this perfect photogrammetry model of all of the bones in their exact original position could be really helpful later. Mm hmm.


Definitely. So they're working on some papers, probably a lot of papers, and one of them's about an adult Utahraptor brain case.


I'm guessing that's new. I think it is.


If there's a paper that's one of the first thing they're publishing out, it must be a unique thing.


Must be pretty well preserved. Oh, yeah. I expect most things in this block to be well preserved. So, yes, some quick background on the book. It's about 125 million years old. There's at least one adult Utahraptor and it's briefcase case. There's 10 juveniles, three babies. But the team is saying that they expect to find more than twice that amount of dinosaurs when they're done.


So we're talking about a couple adults, maybe two dozen. So adults in total and some babies. And that is a lot. And I think they could find feather impressions. So it's possible maybe the Utahraptor were hunting and then they got stuck in quicksand and then that's where they were buried.


And fossilised sand is a good way to preserve really fine details. Maybe that's why they're thinking there could be some feather impressions in there.


Mm hmm. So exciting stuff. It is. I remember when we interviewed Jim Kirkland about this those years ago, he mentioned that he thought of this as like an ongoing project that might be like multiple lifetimes worth of work to totally prepare and describe everything in it. So I'm not at all holding my breath for this one to get finished in a timely fashion, because I know they're being very cautious and very slow. So thirty five hundred hours of work here might not exactly correlate to 3500 hours of work, some other just individual dinosaur that's being prepared.


Right. It's so much harder when you have a bone bed and really dense thing like this because you don't want to accidentally damage another bone while you're getting to one of these. Like I think they said there was a skull underneath a bone at one point and it was really you don't always know what to expect.


Yeah, exactly. Get it out. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully they have some good scanners, but I mean, you can't CT scan a block like that.


You need like some kind of hand-held Star Trek type of scanning device in order to do it the right way, I guess, or just be really slow about it.


But it's nice that they're making their models available. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. The more open access and redundant scans available for everybody, the better. So before we get into the rest of Sabrina's news, I'm going to interrupt and do my have your news item, which is just crazy. I cannot believe that this is even a thing, but that there's a dinosaur that has what we thought were gastritis but may turn out to be gemstones. It's just such a weird thing that you would never imagine.


And the authors in multiple points in the paper talk about how this is why you need lots of different branches of science collaborating. Right, so that you have the eye for it.


Yeah, because like paleontologists, well, they might know something about gemstones, especially if they're the type of paleontologist who focused on geology. They might know a little bit about crystallisation and and what kind of rocks can appear in different situations. But really their focuses more on bones and preservations of fossils. Is it possible that these gastropods could be gems? They could be both.


Yeah, I yes, that's a short answer. But I'll get to that in a little bit because it's really complicated. OK, it's pretty crazy. But before I get into it too much, I should say, the paper was written by Leo Schumann and others, including a leader, BIOL and Jigme O'Connor, both of whom we've talked to before. And that should give you an idea that this is a Chinese find because they're like the masters of the whole biota, basically, although Jigme is now at the Field Museum.


Yeah. So I assume she must have just helped a little bit with this. She's listed as the last author on the paper, so maybe she was more of a wasn't she's done so much research.


That's probably her name. Probably going to appear on lots of papers. Yeah.


If you're doing research in the area. Right. You want to get her input on it because she probably has an opinion. And it was also published in the Frontiers and Earth Science, which is an open access journal, I don't think we've mentioned before, but it's pretty nice. So real quickly, the paper focuses on a specific individual of Bohai Arnis, which was originally reported with Castra lists and Gaster lists are those gazzard rocks that are used for grinding food.


Jelena's and other early birds from northeastern China have also been reported with gastro lists, and some appear to have swallowed seeds and rocks together. And presumably that might have made them an herbivore or at least an omnivore. And maybe they were used in those rocks to sort of grind up food.


But joylessness is not an enantiomer anything, whereas bullheadedness is. And there aren't any jackhole in a.. Things that have good evidence of gastroplasty other than maybe Bohai Šarūnas. So it was a pretty important find when they discovered these cassopolis in both areas. As a fun fact, because Sabrina took over the fun fact that I'm gonna sneak another one into my news item because that's what I do.


Does that add into your beans mean opposite bird? I think we've mentioned that before. Usually I think of them as being opposite from modern birds because they have teeth, because that's obviously the opposite of a toothless bird is a tooth to bird. But that's not at all what the name refers to. What it's really about is the scapula and the coracoid connection point. So in dinosaurs, they have this separate two separate shoulder blade bones, basically, and they articulate opposite in an anti or anything else than they do in other dinosaurs.


So basically, they meet at a concave on one side and convex on the other side. Interaction and in an A. Nothing's the opposite. One is concave versus convex is a subtle difference, but something that you see in fossils and a good example of the kind of thing that lets you differentiate a group of animals, because it's not the type of thing that would converge. It's the sort of thing that's in a skeleton. And there's no reason for the dinosaur to sort of switch later with it.


So it tends to stick around in the skeleton for a long time. And then you can see it in all these individuals and relate them all back. So it's pretty handy little feature to look for if you can spot it. I mean, the very small bones in modern birds, these bones are fused into the scapula coracoid, obviously a portmanteau of scapula and coracoid. And in humans we don't have a coracoid, but there is a bump that sticks out of our shoulder blade, sort of.


So the shoulder blades in the back, you know, you can feel it if you pat yourself on the back, you're probably patting your shoulder blade.


But actually, there's a part of that shoulder blade that sticks forward around your humerus, the upper arm bone in front of it, sort of making the socket for the humerus. And that bump sticking out is called the coracoid process. No. So it's a similar sort of effect of what the coracoid does on other animals. But we don't actually have a coracoid. We just have a bump on our scapula that sort of functions like a coracoid. It's called the coracoid process.


And it's where the. Or else minor attaches. So anyway, that's the scapula and the coracoid and why and a.. These are called opposite birds, but there's kind of a weird thing that happened with an A. or things when it was described as an opposite bird. The original paper didn't say it was because of the scapula and coracoid. So people had different ideas about what they thought was opposite about it. And there's another feature in their bones, which is the order that the bones fuse.


They fuse in the opposite direction from modern birds, for example, the bones in the foot fused from the leg side to the toe side, whereas most of the other dinosaurs fused from the toe side to the leg side. So there's a couple of things that are sort of the opposite from Bird's pretty good name. Turns out, yeah, it is. So the authors originally only thought of this one aspect of it being the opposite bird. But then it turned out there are a few features.




Later they clarified that they were talking about the scapula and coracoid. But there were other features too, which maybe is why they didn't specify. I don't know. It was a weird thing that I found what I was looking into this a fun fact. Yeah. And some of these details about their anatomy maybe weren't ideal because they went extinct 66 million years ago, whereas the non opposite birds obviously made it to today.


But back to Bill Ionis, the gastelum that it had were originally described as Wrangell.


What does that mean?


Teather New word to me. So that's a specific type of gaster lists in modern reportorial birds. So all the birds of prey, the word when I looked it up is most commonly found in falconry where the people that have the Falcons, I guess Falconer's feed the birds wrangel so that they can digest their food properly basically. So it's usually described as Sharp Gravell.


I'm not sure if it's definitively correct, but to me it's a type of gastro lists and in this case, I guess a sharper type. And presumably they assume that it may have been like a raptor in that it was eating the same kind of Gasparilla. There have been discussions in the past about how maybe the shape of the ghazals that a dinosaur chose might tell you something about its diet. So I guess maybe some other ones would be more herbivorous, whereas the sharper ones might be for predators.


Yeah, when I think gastroplasty, I usually think smooth. Yeah. And I also think sauropods. Yeah.


But then we've also seen some papers where it's like they might not have selected them that much and they get rounded out really quickly in the gut anyway. So I don't know. I think this is still an area that needs a lot of research. But in this case, the thing that they were looking at was whether or not they were any type of gastro at all or if they were a gemstone that formed during fossilisation in an area sort of near where the stomach might have been.


So after the animal died, then there was something around it and maybe these gemstones formed. It looked like it was in its contents.


Exactly. Yeah. It's not like it ate gemstones, like to have Wrangell rounded or or gemstones had an eye for shiny objects. Yeah, exactly.


Although I have seen reports of people's pet chickens like eating diamond earrings and things like that, if they drop them in a chicken coop. So they might have I guess there's probably some dinosaur that ate a gemstone. Yeah, some birds decorate their nests with shiny objects.


That's a good point. Yeah, there's that aspect to it too. So the gemstones that they found in it are referred to as crypto crystalline, hmm, which is called crypto crystalline because the structure is made up of tiny crystals that are very difficult to identify as crystalline. And it can even be difficult to pick them out as a crystal microscopically. So it makes sense then that there was this confusion. Yes. And so, yeah, debating whether this thing is a rock or something that's largely a rock, but technically a crystal on the inside, sort of surrounded by rock.


Think of something like a geode, basically. Is pretty difficult to figure out. But in this case, after they sliced into it, did a bunch of different chemical analyses, looked at it under microscopes and looked at it in a polarized light, everything they could throw at it, they came up with it is probably a crypto crystalline and specifically Cal Sudani, which is a type of silicon dioxide rock mixture. And if you go to Wikipedia and look up Cal Sudani, which is spelled like Szulc, it don't see, but it's pronounced Khalsa, I guess.


But on Wikipedia it looks just like the Bohai or A. specimen. There's just one picture of it. And like if you put it next to the Baha'i Šarūnas contents, it's like, yeah, that looks really similar. I can see how that would probably be the same thing. And Chalcedon is a pretty cool mineral, it can be nearly any color, depending on exact chemistry. That's pretty common with silicon dioxide. There's also it's like quartz quartz in a million different ways.


A bunch of different names like Amethyst as a type of quartz, which is purple, has the right conclusions. Oh, I didn't even know that one. Is that pink, I'm guessing? Mm hmm. Yeah, I know you can get yellow and I'm pretty sure you can get blue and green basically anything depending on the exact chemistry. And it's really common because silicon dioxide is the main component of sand and glass and there's just tons of silicon and oxygen all over the Earth.


So you get this kind of stuff all over the place. It also includes AGOT and Onyx. Those are two types of chalcedon specifically, not just a type of quartz. And the chemistry showed that this gaster lith slash gemstone area was mostly silicon, oxygen and carbon, which would make you think, yeah, could be chalcedon. In addition, when they did the thin section under polarized light, it showed a pretty consistent crystalline looking structure. So that helped them identify it as a crystal and not just as an amorphous rock.


There's one other element that made it seem like it was more likely to be a gemstone than it was to be a gastro lith, or at the very least that it wasn't a complete picture of gastroplasty that this dinosaur swallowed. And that's because usually lists are roughly three percent of the body mass of a dinosaur or bird of this size. That sounds like a lot. It does like a lot. But when you're talking about mass, you know, it's not volume and rocks are really dense.


And then birds have very light skeletons, too, and they're built for flying. Right. So they they're saving weight all over the rest of their body, but they can't find lightweight rocks unless I guess crystals are probably lighter weight.


Bohai Or this is large for an an anti or anything. It actually weighed about 300 grams or two thirds of a pound. So talking about a pretty big bird or bird like creature, pretty big opposite bird. Yeah.


And based on those numbers, you'd expect it to have about 10 grams of gastelum, but they couldn't remove this Chalcedon slash castra list to weigh it. So what they did instead was they got a three gram piece of silicon dioxide and put it next to it and just sort of roughly compared the size. And the three gram piece of silicon dioxide is just incredibly massive next to it looks like it's one hundred to a thousand times the size of the whole mass of supposed gizzard stones.


So, yeah, it looks like and that would only be one percent of the body mass, not three percent. So even on the conservative side, it's like this is not nearly enough, Gasparilla, and it's not exactly in the right spot either for where a stomach might have been. So you combine all of that, it looks like it's probably more likely to be some sort of crypto crystalline rock and not gastroplasty that were preserved inside the body. Back to your earlier question about how they formed and if it could be some combination of the dinosaur in some way and its living information about when it was alive and something that's fossilized.


It turns out that Krypto Crystalline Rock often is formed from soft tissues in a process known as author Genesis. Oh, so it benefited from the animal. The crystal benefited from the animal is able to form from the soft tissues.


I guess I'd never think about crystals benefiting, but I guess if you're giving it agency, I guess it is not it's probably not thinking about it. It just happened. Yes.


So the authors couldn't specifically say if this was formed from the soft tissue, but it's possible because there is quite a bit of carbon. Like I said, it's not just silicon dioxide that that was soft tissue is made largely of carbon. And it's possible that the carbon that's included in the crystals was originally the soft tissue of the dinosaur. And then the crystals sort of formed around those points. Because if you think about if you're a grown crystals like sugar crystals or something, you put a little rope in it and it forms around the rope.


So that's what they're saying with this. Maybe there was little bits of skin or whatever that were still around while it was buried. And this could be thousands of years later really at that point. And the crystals started to form around that. So it could have some information about bullheadedness in this sort of structure. Maybe the shape is important in some way and it's preserving some detail, but it's nothing obvious the authors couldn't come up with anything that they could really learn from it.


And they didn't say this in the paper. But I think it's worth pointing out that it could have come from other plants or animal matter. Carbon, right. Doesn't have to be from Ohio.


It's not the only soft tissue around.


Yeah, it could be gut contents that turned into this or it could be a leaf that was nearby that drifted over during the fossilization process or anything. You know, it could be dirt. Nobody knows, at least not yet. Maybe we'll figure it out later. But there is one possible upside that we could learn, even if we can't figure out what exactly the chalcedon is made from, if it's skin or if it's contents or if it's something else entirely, it might give us some information about the conditions as it fossilized because different crystals form in different ways, depending on temperature and pressure and details like that.


So we might be able to figure out exactly how this blindness sort of became a fossil by looking at the crystals, maybe something the authors threw out there, which I thought was interesting. Yeah, it is. And I think you could if you find this kind of thing in other dinosaurs, it might be able to help connect them in some way, connect those opposite birds you have.


So in other news in Pennsylvania, in the U.S., Philadelphia Zoo's getting some animatronic dinosaurs because it's part of their exhibit, big time life in it in dangerous age and dangerous. Yeah, I like that big time. Some big, big dinosaurs and that big time. Anyway, they've got two dozen animatronic animals. They're not all dinosaurs. They've also got like a woolly mammoth and a saber tooth tiger. It does have the T-Rex, Triceratops Pecky, selfless horse and allosaurus.


And the reason they have all these different types of animals is because they've got different landscapes. So there's an area with exploding volcanoes. You can see Earth just after the asteroid. You also see prehistoric Australia, Madagascar, North America. And it sounds like you're walking through different periods of time. So the exhibit opens March 29th and it runs through September 30th. You do have to get tickets in advance and wear masks. Makes sense. That reminds me, when you mentioned that asteroid, I saw a news article, I didn't cover it here, but it was about whether the impactor was a comet.


Maybe it was a piece of a comet rather than an asteroid. And then I immediately regretted my decision to stop calling it the impactor because I used it generically, say, impactor all the time, because we didn't know what it was. Right. It could have been anything. We just know that it slammed into Earth. But maybe now I'm going to have to go back to saying impactor rather than asteroid because it could be a comet, right?


Comet fragment doesn't roll off the tongue the same way asteroid does, but impactor. Yeah. Still has that impact, you know. Got a couple of quick game items, so an unreleased Nintendo 64 game called Dinosaur Planet has now been released. It originally was turned into star Fox Adventures for Game Cube. Oh, interesting. So this was a while ago, but then forced evolution. They bought a disk with a build of the game from a private game collector in Sweden.


And this builds from December 1st, 2000, and they preserved it. So now you can download the file from Internet Archive. Apparently doesn't run 100 percent perfectly on all emulators, but it should work with flash cards. That's really interesting. I think that Star Fox game was kind of a weird one where you played as a character. You weren't in a spaceship like you are in most star fox things, like you were just kind of running around. So I guess they just turned the dinosaurs into star Fox.


They figured that branding was better. Yeah, I don't know the whole story of why, but that's how it sounded.


Looking at it looks like you might play some kind of fox creature and then there's like other dinosaurs around.


It's really interesting. And then another bit of gaming news came across this funny headline on the gamer, it said, quote, In a move that shocked even the devs, one no man's sky player has managed to hatch a massive dinosaur in the new companions update. So apparently somebody bred a species from a companion egg and that hatched into a green sauropod like animal. Hmm. And as they sauropod like because it it looks like a sauropod, but it's also got these spiky fins on its back.


Is it like a Margaux's horse or is it more like a stegosaurus situation?


Neither. It's like it's like how I would draw a fantastical sea creature kind of thing. Oh, they look kind of like they're on its neck like the underside of its neck. Oh, that's a different thing. Those are like weird fungus discs. Yeah, that's a creepy.


Calling that a sauropod is, I guess, sauropod like sort of convergent evolution, so it looks like a dinosaur ish in a bird type way, it's like if you crossed a so risky and with an audit this year, you get like a long neck, but like a more bird like head and a long tail and a big body.


Yeah, there might be even more dinosaur looking creatures out there in the game now because apparently soon after this one, people shared other species they'd hatched, which were even bigger than this one. OK, so whatever this update is caused more dinosaur like creatures to come into the game. Well, that's good. I'm in support of any updates that add dinosaurs to games.


Yeah, me too. This episode has brought to you by every plate, you've probably heard us talk about them before, they make excellent meal kits, their dinners are less expensive and a lot more satisfying, I think, than takeout delivery and also a lot cheaper. You can make their recipes in about 30 minutes, which gives you a time to do more stuff that you enjoy. We first tried every plate when they became a sponsor, but then we've stuck with them.


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I think the great courses plus are a great option for that. For example, they have a course called Introduction to Paleontology, which I have watched several videos from. They have a whole bunch of dinosaurs, obviously, because you can't talk about paleontology without dinosaurs and including stuff on Spinosaurus and lots of other really great finds. But they have lots of other interesting stuff in there, too, like the history of grasses, which we've sort of touched on a little bit on the show in relation to the fact that grasses weren't around when dinosaurs were.


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We are joined this week by Rebecca Slater, also known as Gigi, who is the art director at Path of Titans, this awesome dinosaur game that you may be familiar with. And she's also one of the two original basically creators of the game. So thank you so much for joining us.


Thanks. It's great to be here. Cool. So, I mean, it's yeah, we've seen a lot about this game already. And I guess I'd like to start by just hearing about why you created Path Titans.


What sort of what inspired it? Yeah, it's it's basically a childhood dream of mine. And what I mean by that is growing up in sort of the 90s and kind of early 2000s, there never were any good dinosaur video games that let you actually be the dinosaur and run around in the ecosystem and hunt other dinosaurs and things like that.


There were similar ideas like Spore that you create little creatures and run around and stuff. But it was just coincidental that you can make a creature look like a dinosaur. There are some games that lets you hunt dinosaurs with guns and crossbows and stuff, and those were great, but never were there games. They'll let you be the dinosaur in the ecosystem and kind of almost like role play as the dinosaur, because electroplate is knights and saucers and things like that, but never as animals.


And so my thought here was I've had this passion for so long, I can't be alone. And every time I talk to a friend saying, hey, you know, you like dinosaurs, what would you think about a dinosaur? Again, they always love the idea. And, you know, looking back at that, once I think of, hey, all of the kids are growing up today, they probably would love something similar. My thought is just make that game, make that kid, at least kids who are growing up who are super into dinosaurs, because often sometimes people grow out of it.


None of us here, of course, but sometimes kids will grow out of it. If they could have a really quick dinosaur game that they could play, they probably would never lose interest in dinosaurs, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. That's a good point. Like the dinosaur face go extinct.


Also a great way to bring people back into their dinosaur phase.


That's true. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's just there's so many cool things to explore when it comes to video games and dinosaurs like all these different attacks and the environments and species and subspecies and all this crazy stuff. This is so many cool gameplay elements. And I just think what like what we're doing, we've had the Titans. There's just some great gameplay loops and fun times to be had. Just being a dinosaur, never mind the veneer of a dinosaur over top.


You can actually get some pretty awesome gameplay content coming out of that as well, you know. Yeah, but yeah, I'm glad you made it came because you mentioned how, you know, there are a lot of games where basically you can fight and shoot dinosaurs and stuff. I feel like that's all there was when I was a kid, like there was Turok and stuff like that. Like if I wanted to go with dinosaurs, my only option was to kill the dinosaur.


Like, I want to be nice to the I like the least.


Let me ride the dust know. So I appreciate that. Yeah.


And there's, you know, there's dinosaur movies like The Walking With Dinosaurs, movies and some of these like that. But there's something about physically being able to interact with them and control them that has like its own element to it, like watching them is great. But being there, controlling it, interacting with them in like a live media is very, very important in my opinion. Yeah.


And it's it's cool to how you put so much personality into the different dinosaurs. So it's like when you're playing as they are Spinosaurus versus dynamics, you know, it's a very different experience and you're like, oh, I'm so fast in the water but so slow on land or vice versa. I'm like, yeah, yeah.


You have to play up the differences between the dinosaurs and specifically what we're trying to do in the game is, you know, understandably the point of the game is to do quests and survive and something like, I dunno, anarchists can't really take down a Spinosaurus. Nevertheless, they didn't live at the same time period, of course, but like, they probably can't take one down at least a single dynamics. And so the idea is, what can I do to make the dynamics, this little feathered raptor more interesting to play than the Spinosaurus in some aspects?


So he's going to be really good at jumping and exploring and running fast. He's really good at team type play, like taking down like latching onto dinosaurs and taking them down. So like having a group of friends and stuff like that. And Spinosaurus is going to be great for a kind of more solo player who can feed himself by catching fish and is really big and bulky, but really slow, very small legs. You're not walking anywhere fast on land, so it's just kind of different play style.


So every dinosaur will be relevant in some way, assuming that's your preferred play style. So that's kind of the way we're doing it, because otherwise if it was just about PvP. Yeah, I don't know. You just have everyone would. T-Rex or Spinosaurus, or maybe the biggest herbivore, and, you know, it just kind of it's not really the goal of the game is to make the best PvP dinosaur. Yeah, it's kind of the the direction we've been taking with that.


The Titans. Yeah. I instinctively picked Spinosaurus the first time I played it that Delvina like it immediately caught a fish. And then I was like, let's explore some land and you take like 50 steps and then he needs to lie down, take a break so that he can walk quickly again. I was like, OK, let's try another dinosaur. Then I think I was dynamic. And you can I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Dynamic's gets fall damage, does it?


Not really, no. You can go anywhere he wants. Basically jumps really high too. He kind of glides right. Yeah. Yeah. So cool. I like scampering around is running all over the place a little bit.


Not so cool. So you mentioned quests. What kind of quests have you already rolled out quests or is this a future thing that you're going to add.


So we have current quests right now. They're really simple. They're mostly just for testing. So things like, you know, collect some mushrooms or collect some nuts, stuff like that. Right. But in the future will be have we'll have a lot more involved quests. So things like, hey, grab this quest item and deliver it somewhere else, for example, and the types of quests we're trying to do are it is a game. So they'll be a little more gamey.


But we're trying to make them within the realm of realism. It's not like you're grabbing some secrets. You know, Chloe treasure chest and then bringing it over this place.


This would be something like, hey, maybe you've got a dinosaur graveyard and it's going to ask you, hey, go and find some bones from a kill or from another corpse and bring the bones to the graveyard, like kind of like paying your respects, just kind of like a little bit out there, but enough to make it seem like there's there's lots of interesting tasks to do that don't necessarily they're not like outside like elephant graveyards and things like that.


So it's kind of like a similar idea in a quest like, hey, the the water in this area is quite dirty. Try and clean it up so you can drink from it.


So you actually have a water source. So, hey, it looks like all the predators trashed your berry bushes. How about you go in and get some mulch and like replenish the bush and stuff like that, just kind of like, you know, it's not quite accurate and things like that.


But at the end of the day, it's a game. There's got to be some fun stuff to do and like managing your own resources and things like that as well.


And of course, Carquest, like as a dynamic is try and take down like a Saradha sauce, like that's going to be kind of hard. You're going to need some friends. It's going to be a group quest, you know, so you can show your progress across friends and things.


So just having stuff to do, because if there was no question the game and it was purely just surviving, unfortunately, that's really easy to do. You know, you know, if just surviving, you'd be able to hide in the bush. And, you know, it's just we want to have we want to encourage players to run around, try to doing different things, try different characters, a lot of different things. You know, just just have a bit more of a loop, a fun loop going on there.


Yeah, cool. So does that mean that there are like A.I. predators and maybe herbivores roaming around these worlds as well, while not yet implemented?


That is absolutely the plan. So things like having herds of herbivores, you know, maybe small CapitalSource or something like that and struth yumminess that would be able to to populate it for the some of the smaller carnivores. Sometimes there might be a giant T-Rex AI running around and causing it, you know, throwing a tantrum and trying to, like, attack anything in sight. So just using the A.I., you can kind of balance out the ecosystem.


If every player on the map decided to choose Tyrannosaurus, let's say it's really popular, we'd be able to actually balance out the ecosystem, having CapitalSource or hadrosaurs or something for the Tyrannosaurus to go for.


Yeah, that's really cool. So I kind of want to go through some of the dinosaurs. Do you have a favorite dinosaur that you've made so far in the game?


My favorite dinosaur is usually the one that I last created.


Oh, I know what you're like, man. I really like the way I did this stance or the skin. And then the moment I make a next dinosaur, it's like I really like this one. Now, this was this was really scratch and that is for me. So but, you know, in terms of like when I'm actually playing the game, I probably like playing the serotypes know it's just because I like how they've got like all business in the front know.


And you can you can pivot and turn on the spot and eventually they'll have their, like, charge urtext. So you can really run in and bowl people over, you push around. So I think I'll probably like playing those guys quite a bit. Cool.


You know, and then the most recent one you've made is that Stegosaurus, the update. Yes, Stegosaurus. Cool. Why did you decide to update it?


Oh, right. So I had created the stegosaurus two years ago at this point. First model that first apologized. It didn't get it. Got it ready in the game. And when I created it, I was looking at. Scott, Hartmans skeletal reference for it, Scott Hartmans is a very, very good boy, the scientist that makes some amazing skeletal restorations of many, many dinosaurs. And he's very, very important to my work, sort of referencing many other skeletal diagrams of other people, because while I have made my own sculpt the diagrams, it's good to see what other people are doing.


And while I did reference that CyberSource skeletal diagram, I at the time, I didn't realize just how important it was going to be to stick to the exact proportions and coming back to it now today. And I'd look at it and go, his head's too large, his eyes are too large, his feet aren't great. His tail is like all of these things. And they might not make a huge difference in terms of gameplay or things. But small things like proportions really do kind of define the look of the dinosaur.


And the feet are really important, too.


Yeah, like with our Casaus, they have like a certain number of toenails and then they have got the two extra digits in it. And Stegosaurus, they have like almost like their pinkie in their ring finger, so to speak, has no nails on it. And it's actually they're quite small. So definitely those things are part of it too. If you really want to go for the minutia, the details, but especially just getting those proportions right, like he was quite thin.


Stegosaurus are known to be actually quite bulky, quite wide. So I widened him up and I reanimated some of his animations to try and give him more of a, I don't know, like a proud look with, like, his neck kind of raised up and things like that. And, yeah, really, it was just going back and looking at my old work from two years ago and realizing just how much I have improved and wanted to try and keep all of the dinosaurs in a game on a consistent scale of quality and accuracy.


Yeah, it looks really good. And speaking of attention to detail, because one of them not later, because the stegosaurus was the latest update, but a recent update was called Meat Chunk Updates. Could you talk a little bit about that?


Yeah. So the meat chunk update, basically, we had our dinosaurs and they were able to eat from a corpse. So you've killed maybe an Iguanodon or something, and they're laying there and you can eat from it. And there's a little chunk that spawns in your mouth. But if you want to, you can pick up a chunk of meat and bring it with you. So you kind of have a source of food that you can bring with you.


And when your hunger drops below a certain point, you can go ahead and eat it.


So it's kind of like a way to bring the body along with it without having to actually sit around the corpse because they're sitting around the corpse is going to attract probably bigger dinosaurs are going to try and bully you off your kill capture.


Speaking of bigger dinosaurs, so is T-Rex playable or is that going to be like an eye only situation? So T-Rex will be playable? It's not in the game right now. It's not even modeled or anything yet. That's something that we're going to be adding probably after the game is launched, which will be a little while from now. And we understand that Tyrannosaurus is probably like the number one spot like creature everybody loves and some people might like some of our community sometimes concern like, hey, if you are a T-Rex, nobody's going to play anything else.


It's going to overshadow all of the other dinosaurs and things like that. And sometimes people are also worried that, like, I might make it just look like the Jurassic Park T-Rex or something.


And while the Jurassic Park T-Rex looks amazing, it's not quite accurate to what we know today.


So when I do the T-Rex and when the T-Rex is added, it'll always be with, like, accuracy in mind, um, make it look unique from other Tyrannosaurus. But certainly just make sure that it looks as though people are playing an animal and not this terrible creature running around like a Kaiju and everything. Right. Yeah. So even though T-Rex isn't in right now, I know that when he is at it, people will like him. But it's not like they'll be able to stop around, cause havoc and sort of ruin the game for everyone else.


It's really going to be a natural thing. It's sort of like how if Daspletosaurus, which is one of the tyrannosaurs that we will be adding when it is added to the game, it's going to be you know, it's quite small. Many people like playing him, but it's not really going to destroy our ecosystem to the point that people might be worried about when you're designing these dinosaurs.


Because I know sometimes especially like thinking about t rex, there's still a lot of these debates over just how it looked. So as as the artist and when you're thinking of this, but also trying to stay scientifically accurate as possible, kind of like where do you draw the line or how do you make certain decisions?


So when it comes to like the entanglement of the creature, so the scales, the feathers, quills, things like that, we have a system in game that lets you switch between we call them subspecies, but they're actually species. I think most average players, they don't realize that. What? When they call a species of dinosaurs is actually referring to the genus, so like Allosaurus is a genus actually not species, it's Phrygia list, which is the species.


So we just call them subspecies. So people don't get so confused. They're technically species. So you have like Allosaurus, let's say, and between the three subspecies that we have for him, we're able to change up any of like we could change the mesh around to give him different proportions. We could add quills or things like that. Maybe not so much for Allosaurus, but for something like Elberta serotypes, you're able to change between species to like add or like different horned shapes or quills on its bum or things like that.


And that gives us a lot of freedom to basically design the dinosaur, but also design like alternate versions of the dinosaur. Like I know there's a lot of debate about the shape of the Spinosaurus sale, whether it's more like an M shape or half circle or a rectangular shape or something like that. And so because the science is changing all the time with new discoveries, my thought here when designing the subspecies is, hey, let's try and cover all the bases and figure out like all of the possible reconstructions for these things, like with Spinosaurus, he's got the tail fluke and he's got the the same shape and things like that.


And I could kind of just go, hey, three subspecies, three different shapes, you know, pick the one that you prefer to play. And if you really want to go one hundred percent for accuracy or what's the most accurate representation in the game, you can go ahead and pick that. But if you want to try something a bit different, you've got like a round sale, for example.


So when it comes to actually designing the creatures, though, we try and do what I'm doing it if it's feathered. Absolutely. Going for feathers, select an anarchist Latin of editrix.


Eventually we'll be adding a kilometer or a kilometer and their mindset.


And so that will not have feathers as well. Alerian Ramus is another. It's kind of like a tyrannosaur, I think, and it's got a cape of feathers on its back. So definitely not shy to be doing the feathers on the dinosaurs Struther Mima's feathers as well. And when it comes to the scale dinosaurs, I try and give them some kind of interesting feature skills.


So maybe a row of scouts going down their back to try and break it up.


You know, the thought here is if you're looking at a styracosaurus from behind and an Alberta serotypes from behind and an eagle triceratops from behind, you kind of want to be there all kind of looking the same.


Most of the setups since it was their head that had something unique about them. And then their bodies were usually quite similar.


So I always try to do something on their body.


And if you looked at their body, you'd be able to tell what dinosaur that was regardless of the size. So Alberta serotypes has like a row of scouts going down its back. Styracosaurus has little little like bumps, I guess going down its back to and you Triceratops has the kind of hexagonal larger scouts that I think these are options are kind of known for.


Um. Yeah. That's a good idea because otherwise you're just looking at a bunch of brown wide backs walking.


Yeah. Especially with the growth stages. So for something like Triceratops, even though you might be able to easily discern it from its size, you know, it's quite a bit larger than Elberta serotypes. You'd be able to tell visually what it looks like because once you've got a small triceratops, so a subadults teenager sized triceratops, that's actually going to be the same size as an Alberta serotypes probably at that point. Right.


So being able to just tell them visually, all apart and also with their skins and things like that, as well as so many different colours and patterns that we can use. And then, of course, the players have the ability to change up the colours, if they like as well. Yeah. Just gives people a lot of customization options and, you know, further customize with the subspecies and pick the pick the one that seems most interesting to you.


Yeah, but yes. So one thing have had the Titans that's really important actually is the fact that we provide modding tools and writing documentation and being able to host your own server with mods and stuff like that. So Path of Titans is kind of just like a base for a dinosaur sandbox tool, if that makes sense. Yes, because what we're interested in doing is, you know, I personally think that a really good dinosaur game would be like quests and kind of MMO.


Right. But I don't necessarily like a lot of people also really think that a pure realism type of game would be amazing, too. Or like everyone's got different ideas about what would make a really amazing dinosaur game.


And I'm not going to be like ignorant and think that my idea is the best for everyone. I certainly hope the people enjoyed the game will bring them. But I also want to provide people say, hey, if you really don't like the way I balanced the stats on this T rex here, you can go in and modify them and just change them and as a mod and it's perfectly fine and we'll allow other people to download them that you just upload your mod to our site.


If you want to add Packie rhinoceros or like dragons or wolves or like any anything crazy you want, you can add it into the game with modding and then upload it to our sites and people can download it to their game. And it's like a whole integrated system of user generated content. Cool. Another one that I'm very interested in terms of game mode. Interested to see what people are going to do in the game. We're going to have we're calling it the creator mode.


And if you've ever played Dungeons and Dragons, you probably know there's the Dungeon Master and they have the ability to like, say, when certain monsters are coming in and you kind of, I guess, create the quest line of where your players are following and you can dictate the scenery and, you know, plop down a monster in the middle of your path and things like that.


And the creator game mode is something we'll be working on.


This will be after release, but basically it'll give you Dungeon Master style control over the people on your servers. You'll fly around and you can see what they're doing and you can see what they're saying. And you could like spawn a T-Rex like between the rocky, craggy path that your party is trying to traverse down and then jump into control of the T-Rex and go and start, you know, rampaging after the people chasing them around. Kind of like Alyda from the Dinosaur movie and the Carlotta's.


If you remember that one, you could kind of have people do that and then you could hop out of that one and spawn another T-Rex behind them and whatever it is you want to do.


And you can kind of create your own journeys with your friends and be a dungeon master for them. So because I know a lot of people who are into dinosaurs really like the role playing elements of it, too. And it could be, of course, related to a big server community event.


If you got like a hundred and fifty people on your server, you could do some kind of cool event like, hey, this is going to be, you know, Carnivore Madness Saturday or something. And, you know, everyone's got to be a camp to source and survive. And I'm going to send all of these t rex is, you know, just things like that. Right. It's just gives people the freedom to really do whatever they whatever they're interested.


They can be crazy. It could be more in the realm of realism, you know, whatever people like.


Yeah, that's that's really fun.


That does fun. I hope someone does that. Yeah.


Everybody back after Zora's had nothing to do with that.


You could probably make like a battle royale type game mode if you really wanted to, where you, you know, start as a T rexes and the ring around the map slowly closes, fighting the last CapitalSource left standing.


Yeah, yeah.


It sounds like at this point, too, you're so familiar with just dinosaurs and how they might look and stuff with Spinosaurus. One of the subspecies it's got that was it the paddle like tail. And you actually designed that before that paper came out?


Yeah, it was you know, I was looking at Spinosaurus and I went, all right, there was aquatic. He's got a really long tail. He's got a sail. He's got the whole thing. If he's going to be paddling and he's got really small likes or short legs, I should say.


And it just made sense to me, like, I think there needs to be a paddle on this tail because it just makes sense. And it was kind of an out there thing. And at the time when I made it, I got a bit of criticism from some of our players thinking, you know, hey, it's not quite so accurate. They said, don't worry, there's going to be a subspecies that doesn't have it. You know, don't worry about that.


It'll just, you know, smooth tail like what's accurate. And lo and behold, about, you know, eight, nine months later, the the pretty famous now paper came out. That implies that that has discovered that Spinosaurus has kind of like a tadpole tail or eel like tail.


And I was just like, man, I called it. Yeah, something about it just it seemed off balance. It was totally just a feeling, but it ended up being really right, which is great. So does it means I don't have to remodel our Spinosaurus. Yeah.


Yeah, that's cool. I also like from a gameplay standpoint, even if say it turns out Spinosaurus couldn't swim super well and all that kind of stuff, you kind of need a dinosaur to be able, you know, how else are you going to differentiate a T-Rex from a Spinosaurus from a, you know, Saradha source like all these things in a gameplay standpoint, it's nice to have that balancing. One of them is more aquatic. So I like that element.


Yeah, we we definitely try and exaggerate that a bit. Like Spinosaurus probably could walk. Not too terribly. All right. If he has legs still he's probably walking on land, evolutionary speaking. And so know the thought here was let's even though he could probably walk pretty fast, I'm going to dial it back and keep him slow, specifically because I want to encourage Spinosaurus to stay in there like and that's like defender like don't let people overfish. They're like, you know, that's their food source.




Yeah, yeah, that's cool. I also want to ask there's a couple more dinosaurs that we haven't talked about yet. You have a sauropod eventually coming to the game. Umaga saurus. Do you have any. Thoughts about what a Marga's horse is going to be like in the game, sauropods are so difficult and they are so big, you know, you try to like in the forest and you're too wide and stuck in a tree, your heads and you can't see anything trees.


So the thought here was, I'm not going to pretend that we'll be able to get something like Peg out of Titan.


I think that this giant giant sauropod or like a Brachiosaurus type sauropod or anything like that.


So what we're trying to do for this game is let's take I really wanted to sauropods.


We're going to do smaller sauropods. So our market source is arguably like about the size, a little smaller than T-Rex or something like that.


Right. And the thought here was, if we can make T-Rex fit in the game, then our market source could fit in the game.


And it's a really interesting dinosaur because of the the next finds. Oh, yeah. And I know there was a relative of that discovered actually fairly recently, Bajada saurus, I think, where the study, the spines on the neck are actually facing forward.


Yeah. And one of my thoughts here is if I do our Marga's source, I'm very interested in making a subspecies that has the point for even though it's a different dinosaur entirely, I think it would be super cool. So so the thoughts here with our megastores in general, though, is it would be like kind of slower, you know, has its whip whip like tail, has the spines in the front. You know, it's going to be quite an interesting dance for the players because very few games that you play as a sauropod because they just go, hey, it's going to be too big and too slow so I can do it.


So I'm really interested in trying to make it work out.


Yeah, cool. One more dinosaur I want to ask you about. There's Microraptor. How what do you think, like fitting into the scheme of, well, will it be able to glide?


Yes, it will glide. They can climb trees. It's going to be really, really small. Mm hmm. It's another thing to consider is balancing the game between giant Tyrannosaurus and a micro Microraptor. Right.


So that's definitely a very interesting gameplay design to get around. Like, you know, most games, all of the characters are about the same size. So it's very difficult to try and balance these things, like how does a T-Rex fight a Microraptor?


Does it even notice it? Yeah, it's so small.


It's climbing a tree. It's just making some screeching sounds. The T-Rex T-Rex says I don't have enough time to try and hunt that thing. I'm going to start soon. I need to go and find something bigger and more like substantial to eat. So, yeah, in terms of like the gameplay for Microraptor, because it's a little further out, that's something like, well, ad after the game is released as kind of like a stretchable dinosaur. Like you said, it's a little hard for me to specifically pinpoint what the gameplay is going to be like.


But one thing I'm very interested in trying out. No, no, no guarantees here, but I'd love to play around with the idea of Microraptor being like the troll dinosaur.


And what I mean by that is it's just it's like a trickster and it can make dinosaur calls of creatures that, you know, it's heard before. So you could hear like a Microraptor makes a T-Rex sounds kind of scares people and stuff like that. And it could fly around and it probably can't get hit by people like if it's on the ground trying to eat something. All right. Fair game, but probably it's climbed up a tree gliding around, you know, trolling people and it can't really hurt anybody.


Maybe it could pick a dynamic. Yes, maybe. But it's not going to really be killing anything. It's going to be more of a scavenger, more confusing and annoying the other dinosaurs.


So I love the idea of if people just want to bug other people, they go and play Microraptor.


Yeah, if you do that, that would probably be the one I play the most experienced.


Yeah, that's a really good solution because otherwise it seems like Microraptor would just be totally not even in the same world. It would be like a world within a world. Microraptor would be like hunting bugs and climbing trees, doing something completely unrelated to everybody else playing the game. Unless you add some element like you're saying where it's sort of the troll, that's really clever.


Yeah, it's difficult trying to think of how do I make all of these completely different animals interact with one another in a meaningful way?


I don't know. One thing we added, you know, we were thinking about it from a gameplay design thing. Let's say you've got dinosaurs in there and this big herd, all Llambias for us or something like that in a big herd.


That's great. And if you're not able to invite, let's say, a camp to source Elberta serotypes Centrosaurus, if you can't invite any of those types of dinosaurs to your party and make a herd with them, you're kind of restricted in if there's other Lamby Esau's players or EHI on the map. Right.


And it starts getting difficult because we've got like twenty dinosaurs now and we're adding even more and there'll be more dinosaurs and you. Until that people are just going to cram as many dinosaurs as possible into this game, community standpoint and from a development standpoint, right? Yeah, and so one difficult decision we had to make that kind of goes against realism and is more into the gameplay thing is we let basically any herbivores or any carnivores go into a group together and we play together.


So you're kind of like mixing species, mixing the pack up, you know, and it was difficult to make the decision.


Like I said, it's just, you know, it's not really realistic to have like a dynamics and a tyrannosaurus and a group together, you know, hunting. But when you think about it from a gameplay design perspective, I thought here was. The dynamics is faster than the T-Rex, and the dynamics could like scout ahead and tell the T-Rex, hey, found some guys over here, come on over in the T-Rex slowly lumbers on over and the teacher tries to ambush them and know the dynamic is to try and hurt them towards the T-Rex.


And, you know, so you've got like an actual group, kind of not quite the same as like tag hilar dps, not quite the same as that, but like a thing like fast and exploration, slow and bulky, you've got dinosaurs that can do calls that will give buffs people. You got dinosaurs, the venom, you know, speculative venom here. But venom and bleedings, you can apply status effects. So you kind of everyone gets to pick the dinosaur they want to play as instead of everyone having to pick one dinosaur.


And they all have strengths and weaknesses. So when it comes to PvP, there's actually a bit of a balancing act you can do with your friends here.


Yeah, or you could. I was just thinking of lan before time. You could get a group of friends and each play a dinosaur similar to like one of the ones before type.


Yeah that's exactly it. And you'll be, they'll be dinosaurs to still be great.


Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good idea. I like that. It also kind of solves the problem of you're a baby and how do you you'd have to be protected by the same same species. But if you can go in a herd that's already existing and get a little protection that way, that that sounds good. When you have the carnivore herd, though, are they going to just eat each other? A lot of the time? I feel like they could do.


I mean, part of the gameplay is I see a dynamic is there is is he worth more to be being alive? And it's like being a scout for me. And like maybe once he gets out a dinosaur, I'll just eat him, you know?


So, like, there's nothing stopping people from doing that, like using other people as tools for their survival. So absolutely. That's what we're going to be encouraging to like. It's a it's a dinosaur eat dinosaur world out there. Yeah.


That does make Microraptor seem appealing because the calculus on that is probably, well, they're better at scouting ahead and things are not worth eating. Cool. I like it a lot. I'm excited.


So for our listeners, if they haven't already checked you guys out, what was the best place for them to find out more information about patha titans or keep up to date on all your updates?


Yeah, so just past the Titans Dotcom, that's our just website and things like that. And we have to score at the Titans dot com so you can go ahead and join our discussion if you want to have like more up to date and hour to hour updates with the game and what's going on and interact with the community, things like that. We always make big announcements there first so people can get a head start on their downloads and updates and stuff like that.


And if the game interests you at all, then you can pick it up at Alderaan Games Store and you can check out the game for yourself.


Awesome. And I assume you can also get there probably path of Titans, dot com and there's probably some side way to get to that.


There's a store link on straight on the main page of the Titans Dotcom as well. Cool, awesome.


Well, thank you so much for joining us and sharing all of your hard work.


And thanks for all the hard work.


Yeah, yeah. Like I said, is just a dream of mine to be able to get this game released and people playing it and letting even though I'll never be able to really enjoy the game to its fullest extent as a video game, because I developed the game and I'll be able to like, oh, I remember when I did this and that. But if other players are able to experience that, like really nice honeymoon period that you usually have with the games when you first opened them up and you go, wow, this feels amazing.


I feel like I'm really there. I feel like really am a dinosaur. That's what I'm living for when it comes to this game. That's what I want to see. That's what I want people to experience. And I can't wait until we're finished and people are able to feel that, you know, awesome.


Yeah. All right.


Well, thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Thanks again, Gigi, for taking the time to talk to us, that game sounds so great, I can't wait to do all of the things that we talked about. Microraptor definitely sounds like the the winner if it ends up being the troll.


So you've come around because when we're first talking about it, he said, oh, no. When I said I wanted to be Microraptor, yeah, that sounds really fun.


When I figured out I understood the game play about like the people you're playing with might just decide to eat you. I really like the idea of being something small that's not going to get eaten. There's no end clotheshorse.


There's an end Kylah saw, but it doesn't look quite as armored and, you know, invulnerable as Banki the source, which is what I like about. And there's no sauropod that's big enough to be invulnerable either. Right. So you got to go with something tiny so that no one's going to bother to eat it. Yeah. I also really like the idea of having events and challenges.


Oh, yeah. Yeah. We might have to set up a server so that we can do some of these fun things. Have to see. And now on to our Dinosaur of the Day, Zougam resource, which was a request from tyrant king, V.R. Patriarch and Discord. Thanks. So Gonçalves was a momentous Saud's sauropod that lived in the middle Jurassic in the Gong, Sichuan, China. It was found in the Shashemene formation. It looks like a typical sauropod.


You know, it's large on four legs and herbivore had a long neck.


Yeah, as a memento, sort of course. It had a ridiculously long neck, I'm sure. Yeah. The authors who named it thought it looks a lot like OneSource. And if that's the case, OneSource, there's a few different species of OneSource, but the one with the longest neck was about 30 feet or nine years long.


Yeah, there's a lot of neck. So so Goldwasser's was estimated to be about 50 feet or 15 metres long, really quick. It is different from the dinosaur Zajonc Osiris, which is a basal sauropod that lived in the middle Jurassic and what is now China. So they sound very similar.


Basically, the differences, there's a Z instead of a G, but those sound kind of similar in Chinese, it's jaw versus girl. So I was thinking they're similar in that they're both sauropods that lived in the middle Jurassic and what is now China. I don't think it's a momentous word, but apparently it did have a long neck. And back to the dinosaur of the day, the type species is the Ghungur saurus, Fushi insists, and the genus name means Zougam Lizard.


It was named in 1976 by Jo Jo and Chao, and it was based on specimen KVI zero zero two six one, and that includes a partial mandible, maxilla and bone from the brain case area. There's other specimens that have been referred to the Gonçalves, at least four of them. And that also includes the dorsal vertebrae pubis and EQM. The authors, again, they thought it looked like Ohmae a source, but that the vertebrae was different enough to be its own genus.


It had weak, bifurcated or split neural spines on the vertebrae. There's debate over whether or not to go source is a valid Jenice, it has been synonymous with OneSource and momentousness, at least it's been proposed separately, I guess.


Yes, it's kind of changed over the years. So in 1983, Dongo and Jiong wrote a book, Dinosaurs from the Jurassic of Cetron, and said that the Gonçalves Fushi ANSYS was only source, Fushi insists. And in the book they said that there were some time constraints around preparing and studying and putting the Gonçalves on display so that not all the data could be analyzed. And that led to the material that was analyzed being named to go to the source.


Fushi insists the books are not peer reviewed, so that might not necessarily be the most valid way to do that.


Yes, but the way that one was written was like a scientific paper, so it's hard to tell. Maybe there is a paper somewhere out there by the same authors or something. Yeah, it's kind of hard to find that one. But anyway, so their analysis led them to reclassified the Gonçalves as a major source. And it was also based on stratigraphic position. It was in the same environment where other Ohmae, a source, had been found real quick.


OMYA source was named in nineteen thirty nine by Young and others, but the type specimen was fragmentary and a lot of it was lost in transport during World War Two. So Dongo and Ljung selected a neo type in 1983 when they also anonymized the Gonçalves with OneSource. Then in 1986, Zhang and Chen suggested that to go to the source now a source was actually Manchester's, Fushi insists.


So they all agreed that it was different enough to be its own species. It was just an argument of whether it was different enough to deserve its own genus. Yes, and they said that it came from a strata between where Amaia source and immense source have been found, but that to them it looks more like a mini resource. And then in 1997, Li inside said that it was a normal Nikodim. And then in nineteen ninety nine, Valerie Martin, Roland found the Gonçalves to be valid.


Wow. But then in twenty nineteen, not that long ago, Whang and others found it to be on diagnostic. So then sort of back to normal noodleman again, you know, sort of unclear, really bounces around a lot here. And the parrot type for the Gonçalves Fushi and this was a maxilla, it had three teeth and that one was thought to be possibly from a juvenile. I should have mentioned that earlier with the other specimens, but there you go.


Cool. So no matter what, it's a we've got a decent number of these momentous or at bounds, they get the typical really long neck. It's about 50 feet long. The question just is, is it the youngest or is it a subspecies or species of mummenschanz or us or a species of O'May saurus? Or is it just not even a good enough find to name as anything specifically?


Yeah, sounds like a case of Needmore fossils. It does, yeah. And now for our fun fact, because I took over the fun fact this week. Topiaries are cool, that's your fun fact, this is how you take it over fun facts.


I don't know if I'm going to let you take a fun fact, OK? I've got more.


I've got more, and I'll tie it into dinosaurs. This came up because when I was looking at Dinosaur News of the Week, something popped up about the dinosaur topiaries in Santa Monica, in L.A. and California. The US we've talked about before, they're on Third Street Promenade. Somehow I'd never seen them, even though I've been to L.A. a bunch, maybe I haven't been to Third Street Promenade much. I don't remember. Anyway, somebody shared this close up photo of the sauropod topiary, which is really cool.


And I didn't realize that it's got steel and copper to help shape its face. And that led me to a mini dive or a record Romeo's burrow on topiaries. So I pulled a Garrett. How so? Because I saw a picture of a sauropod topiary and I thought, let me learn more about topiaries.


So do theories have been around for a long time?


I mean, in the grand scheme of things, not that long compared to dinosaurs, but still like a relatively long time, apparently ancient Romans had topiaries. It was also in China and Japan. There's this art of shaping shrubs and trees and you can see it in gardens and also in the arts, like the Japanese bonsai, the small trees, also the Chinese ponging. They were they form many trees and plants and landscapes.


Those are considered topiaries, apparently. Yeah, I didn't realize either. And topiaries were revived in Europe in the 16th century and those topiaries included animals and people. But they also did shapes like cones and pyramids. And then this trend seemed to die out in the seventeen hundreds. But then it came back again in the mid eighteen hundreds and then in the late 80s and early 90s, hundreds, it started to be more popular in America.


And Walt Disney helped to start a new type of topiary, they call it the American portable style, and you can see that in the topiaries at Disneyland. They started making these in the 1960s. I think they're mostly around the it's a small world ride. No dinosaurs, but the portable because they're in big pots or something. It's because it's got this steel wire frame and the plants grow into them and then the frame provides guidance for trimming. So I think before that, you just had to kind of shape it as you went.


Oh, interesting.


So it's like a little bit more of a foolproof way to trim them. Mm hmm. So this led to mosaic culture with multiple types and styles of plants for topiaries. And now, I mean, anybody can make a topiary. Apparently, the main thing is the type of plant you choose when you're making your own. And people recommend doing dense evergreens like boxwood. But it's also worth looking more into this. If you decide to make your own topiary or like a dinosaur topiary or something, because it has different varieties of plants that don't need to be trimmed as often, you might even be months between trimming.


I assume, depending on where you live, you might want to pick a plant that does well there as well. Yes. And you don't need to frame it can't help, though, especially if you're a beginner, you want to use shears or pruners to shape and then you take care of the plant the way you would with other plants and water them, all that stuff and then keep an eye on your topiary. It's easier to trim when the branches are starting to grow rather than when they get completely out of control.


If the more complex design you have, the more often you'll have to trim. And then if you're in a cold area, stop trimming about two months before the first frost to protect your plants from the cold.


Are you going to make a dinosaur topiary? But it's not out of the realm of possibilities. It would probably be a small one if I did it like a bonsai tree shaped like a dinosaurs.


Well, interesting.


You can tell Gary prefers his fanfics. That was much less science than mine usually are, but that doesn't mean it's any less good. Thanks. And that wraps up this episode of Onoe Dido. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your favourite podcast app so you don't miss out on any new episodes and join our community, patrie and Dotcom. I know. I know. Thanks again.


And until next time to me, I'm a dinosaur. Don't give up before you go.


Quick reminder, we're doing another watch party on this Saturday, March 6th at 2:00 p.m. Pacific Time, which is 5:00 p.m. Eastern. And you can convert it to other time zones around the world. It works out OK for part of Europe. I know it's a little bit late at night, but it is on a Saturday and we're going to be watching Valiasr Pasteur or the Vlasov pastor, which is what I don't even know how to describe.


It apparently is a pastor who can turn into a dinosaur to fight crime or something. It's supposed to be fabulously ridiculous. And we'll be watching it on our Dischord server, on the movies channel and just having a lot of fun talking about it, I'm sure. So if you'd like to join us and you're a patron, please do so. And if you're not a patron, please consider joining and watching the pastor with us. I think it's free to stream on Amazon and then we'll have some other links to other places.


You can stream it as well. I think it is pretty cheap. It's like three dollars most places. Anyway, the loss of Pastor this Saturday, March 6th at 2:00 p.m. Pacific, if you're interested.