Transcribe your podcast
[00:00:14]

The world is crazy right now, and I wrote some sort of innocuous thing about like that, I would like to just give a beauty pageant answer that I just want world peace because I just feel like so much back and forth, so much divisiveness, so much arguing. Aren't we getting a deal for you? I have gotten DFAT. I just I know we have to be passionate about something. I know we have to have a voice. I'm just full from conflict.

[00:00:42]

I don't know who else feels this way. And it's really weird because I look to the other day at how much I use social media on the average day. And at that point it was like 20 minutes. Now I think it's down to like ten minutes. I just I'm nauseated. I just analyze it on every level that. Everything is breaking news, everything is at its head, everything is the world is coming to an end and maybe it actually is, I have no idea.

[00:01:08]

It's like the boy who cried wolf in the world is coming to an end. But also just then, the juxtaposition of so much superficiality where at the beginning of the pandemic, I really thought people would come down and like, not everybody cares about your everything your child eats, does your dogs your life and. I know the talks are becoming more and more popular and I don't know, it's sort of like if I go into a restaurant, it's packed after a long time.

[00:01:41]

I'm like, wait, people are actually going out. If I've been home for a while, I'm sort of like, that was social media. I just can't believe that it lives on in the way that it does for information and sort of communication. I've loved it. I've loved it for relief work. It's been such a great switchboard. I've said this before many times as just not my generation in the way that I grew up to. And I was raised by wolves to posts like, look how good I look, how rich I am, look at everything I'm doing, and I just feel that it's got to tap out at some point.

[00:02:14]

The people that I used to follow, I can tolerate. I just look at like who gives a fuck? And I don't know, except for business, because I have to for certain partners, I have to post or sometimes I'll do deals and then I have to shoot like a video of some sort. And I do like doing that. I actually do in one while something will be really important to me. And I do feel the need to say something, but I think that's what it should be.

[00:02:36]

Do we need to feel the need to say everything? Often in my relationships and in my life, I say not everything needs to be said, but that's literally the opposite of social media. Everything needs to be said and everything needs to be done and everything needs to be communicated and argued and deliberated and trolled. And I don't consider myself that active on social media. I really was thinking during the holidays, can I just not be on it?

[00:03:00]

Can I shut this shit down? And then something funny will happen and then you'll want to take a picture or something. I just I wonder if people wonder why I'm not really posting that much, because I really have much to say. I also want to focus on my own life and my kid and my relationship. But I feel that we're not that present. I find that when I'm doing something I really am enjoying and I'm present, I would never be stuffed in my phone to document it.

[00:03:26]

So it's like we're producing our own lives. And so I feel like people have wanted me to be more vocal about what's been going on in the world. It's just that I may not be being that publicly vocal because I'm then I'm supposed to use my voice and, you know, because I'm a public person. And then if I do use my voice, then we don't give a shit about what celebrities think about politics or I've been not too crazy.

[00:03:52]

I haven't been very political because I'm not very political, but I've gotten trolled for posting a picture of myself with Hillary Clinton. I was on Ellen. I got killed. Like, you really can't do that much. And I'm not afraid. So I'm not not doing something because I'm afraid I'm just chock full of motherfucking nuts. It's too much. I wouldn't mind if the world just took a social media cleanse. And that's our news now. And the whole world has changed because media has changed and elections have changed because media has changed and anger and incitement has changed because media has changed.

[00:04:27]

So social media is the biggest culprit. So I don't know what I'm actually saying, except that at the beginning of the pandemic, I thought it would all calm down in many ways, and I don't know that it has. I calmed down.

[00:04:40]

I don't know. I haven't watched people that I know thinking everything they're saying is so important, waxing poetic, you know, especially the more well known people are. They just think that what they have to say so fucking important and holier than thou and I don't know, I'm just one person with one vote. So my voice needs to be heard. But it's not like louder than anyone else's. So I don't know. I think I'm just really full.

[00:05:06]

And I would almost like to just use social media for business because I listen, I've been you know, I look in a bathing suit, I look at and workout clothes. I just wanted to post every goddamn moment of, like, look at me and look at this great bag I have and look at my watches and my jewelry and my vacation and my life stuff. Some things need to be private. Some things need to be sacred. And yes, I know my social media.

[00:05:27]

I myself am not outfits and whatever, because I feel like my team will say, like, you know, and posting photos, you got to post this in this rates and family rates like this and you in a bathing suit is like this and you and a hot outfit is this. And I don't know, maybe I'll change my mind at this time. I am a little beautiful. Is this just me though? Am I in some sort of a mood?

[00:05:47]

Do you feel this way? Do you look at things that are on your own feet and just say, like, who gives a shit but you just don't sort of like unfollow the person or make the stance because it's almost like eating junk food. You don't really feel satisfied to keep eating. You finish the bag of chips, you sort of are satisfied. I envy people that I know that just are not on social media. I promise you from the bottom of my heart, I would not be on social media if it weren't for business and maybe I was going to follow as a result of that.

[00:06:16]

I don't know. It's just I'd like it to be aware if I have something that's important to me to say or something that I think is really funny. So I'd like it if I would have the sort of tips to just post when I thought something was really funny or when I was being paid to do it or when it was good for business. But that's really it. Well, my guest today is Tammany Hall, who is a journalist, television host and executive producer.

[00:06:48]

She's also an Emmy Award winner. She is the executive producer and host of her self-titled talk show, Tamron Hall, which was just renewed for its third season. She is intelligent, driven and has so many great insights. I know you're going to love this conversation because you really we sort of don't hold back. And you could tell that talking to her is like playing tennis with a better tennis player. And honestly, I always have known who she is, but I didn't know that much about her, which is really a big part of this podcast.

[00:07:19]

I hear so much people saying, I didn't know this was a cool conversation and she is a strong person.

[00:07:31]

Hi. I don't know how much you know about the podcast, but this is about Moghuls and successful business people, and I am so grateful to have you on. And I wanted to start by sharing something that I've heard about you, that you are incredibly punctual and organized. Is that true? And where did that come from? You know, my dad was the type of person make your bed as soon as you wake up. In fact, that's something my husband laughs at me now about.

[00:07:58]

If there is a pillow out of place, I will subconsciously put the pillow back where it belongs or, you know, it's there when we get home and something has been moved. He says, I noticed it like, oh, that lemon wasn't there. The lemon goes here. I just I very orderly. Plus I'm a Virgo and I think that that plays into it. If I fall into a stereotype of astrology, Virgos are apparently very orderly and analytical.

[00:08:24]

So I in my whole growing up, I am a free spirit and I was definitely raised to be a free spirit. Same. But when it came to home life organization in order, definitely my dad leaned in on that.

[00:08:40]

I am I am painfully punctual. I am very structured and beyond organized. So I'm thinking I didn't realize we had so much in common, but I notice anything out of place.

[00:08:52]

I think people crave order maybe because of other things in their life that might not be orderly, either emotionally or it's just something that we can control and have a handle on.

[00:09:02]

We both are balancing a lot. But I think for me, even prior to becoming a mom, you know, when you have a lot of things going on and you have a lot of irons on the fire, for me, I think more clearly with order, if I walk into a room and everything, I can sit down and I can focus.

[00:09:24]

I know it will be even when you know that it's about to get handled like we've been. I've been doing Christmas gifts for over one hundred people and it looks like Santa's workshop, but it's messy. And the tissue and then the plastic that was around the tissue. And I know intellectually and emotionally it's going to be OK and it's going out of the house and it's going but in that moment, it's hard because you're just focused on it because you want order back to your space.

[00:09:49]

You can do your work and do everything that you're doing. And I do think I do think that people do ask me about time management and about balancing. And I always bring up being organized, but I mean down to your condiments in your refrigerator and underneath your bathroom sink. Are you like that, too?

[00:10:05]

No, I am like that. I'm not as orderly in that arena as I probably should be. I can't lie in that bed, but all of my spices are in alphabetical order. Wow. Yeah, all of my spices out of order. And I have them in like little containers. So there are the spices that begin with a and but because they don't do that, that's a new one for me.

[00:10:28]

That's a good one. Wow. OK, that I do that I'm very organized with my son and his snacks and his food are all the same kind of organized in that way. I think my weak spot would be my closet. I have yet to figure out how to make that order translate to my closet that I can help you with. I read an article once and it said, Vergos, they always have a secret spot where they stash all of their mess.

[00:11:01]

And I think for me, it's the closet.

[00:11:03]

Oh, my goodness. I can help you. I can help you with that. I'll I'll do a do a separate, separate conversation on that. But I've read that you you don't want to sort of be that mom that like that looks sloppy. And even when you're not doing your talk show or working that you always look cute and have it together. Is that true, too? That is true.

[00:11:20]

I mean, I don't know how we define cute. Everybody has their own version of it. I mean, mine currently I have on a little matching. I guess it's a tie dyed jogging suit at home.

[00:11:31]

Yeah, it's at home. It doesn't have to be this fancy outfit or it doesn't have to be anything elaborate. But for me, a big part of my journey is my own identity. I've only been a mom eighteen months, but I was a non mom for forty eight years and I didn't want to lose a part of just, you know, something that I identify with. I love clothes. I love dressing up. I love the idea of feeling good about what I'm wearing.

[00:11:59]

And I can tell you, like I love what I am a fan of, like but if I ever write a book I said one of the chapters would be Leggings don't love us because after I have a baby, I was completely unaware of my size because the leggings kept diluting of my view of whether or not I lost the baby weight that I wanted to lose. And I was like, we love them, but they don't love us because, you know, the stretch fabric doesn't always reveal exactly what's happening.

[00:12:26]

At least that's what happened to me.

[00:12:27]

Yes, that's true. And I often say that you. People, even if they're wearing sweats or something that's comfortable, should have some sort of a structure because then you're not eating as much and you feel sort of together where if it feels really loose and sloppy, it's just easy to keep to keep eating it, especially now with everyone being at home. We're not really monitoring that.

[00:12:48]

I grew up with my grandfather, had a second grade education. He was what's known as a sharecropper, is very proud man who didn't have wealth, but he has a wealth of heart and life. And every Sunday he would put on his one suit and polish his shoes and go in to church, which is where culturally people like him and the people who raised that, was there one opportunity to dress up. And so I grew up seeing that I grew up with my grandfather, always wear a beautiful hat.

[00:13:21]

My mother was a single mom at the age of 19, but always I would see her when she picked me up from school. Or would she attend a PTA meeting at the time, that's what they were called. She would come put together and sign all the associated with an economics. And I don't associate it with. I miss it. I just miss I mean, listen, I don't agree with the airlines that keep people off or having their shorts on.

[00:13:44]

I'm like, you bought your ticket, you wherever you want. I don't agree with the extremes of that, but I do miss the idea of seeing people put themselves together. Maybe that's the nostalgia.

[00:13:56]

Me, I think it's pride a little bit like pride. And I like that you brought up church because that makes a lot of sense. It's the day and it's respect. It's pride. It's taking it seriously. And, you know, I was reading a lot about you unless I read incorrectly. You're a little bit of a late bloomer for, obviously, motherhood and success. Is that true? Well, definitely.

[00:14:17]

With motherhood clearly being 40 years old and a first time mom, I would say I mean, depends on how you define success. It depends on how you define it. I was the youngest reporter hired at the CBS affiliate in Dallas, Texas, which is a top, I guess, 14 market. By the time I was twenty seven, I was an anchor in Chicago before our morning show. That was number one. And then I guess by the time I was thirty seven, thirty six, I don't know how it became the first black woman to anchor the Today Show.

[00:14:52]

And so for me those are milestones. But I feel that I was successful the minute I graduated from college and defied a lot of odds being you really felt that you had your back you 100 percent because my grandfather would write his name.

[00:15:11]

He signed his name with an X because he was not able to read and not because he could not achieve that. It wasn't an opportunity afforded to someone born in nineteen one in southern Texas who had to leave school to raise his family, didn't drop out of school to hang out. You dropped out because he had to help his family on the farm. And so for his granddaughter, fast forward to nineteen ninety two to be able to graduate from Temple University.

[00:15:40]

I felt that I was successful there so.

[00:15:42]

And that is not so long ago. I mean, that's what's crazy. It's not that many generations away that you can say that he couldn't write his name. That's.

[00:15:48]

Yeah. You know, it's it is reality. I mean and that's why I do work with literacy, because even today we both live in New York City. There are many, many kids who get just sent to the next grade, to the next grade, and they're not able to read. And it's heartbreaking. So now we're talking about nineteen one and this was his story. So when I graduated from Temple University, I certainly felt successful. I mean, was I making millions of dollars?

[00:16:14]

No. What did people know? My name was able to be a guest on the Bethenny Frankel show. No. Well, get an accomplishment of great proportions for my background and for my family. Absolutely.

[00:16:29]

So the whole way you took note of these milestones, because I read that you said you just sort of keep your head down and keep going type of person. So I was wondering if throughout your whole journey you were able to be in the moment, be present and say, wow. And it sounds like you definitely were when you graduated college. But you have so many things going on and you've always been multitasking and going from one thing to the next.

[00:16:54]

And it sounds like a lot of being a black woman comes through in the way that you feel about each of these milestones, like you're thinking about being a woman and you're thinking about being a black woman in particular versus just I think they go hand in hand.

[00:17:08]

I mean, listen, we just celebrated the one hundredth of women's suffrage, and it's not like we're all that far away from the fact that we couldn't vote in a country that needs us now in so many ways and then. Right the things on the rail. So keep the train on the tracks. So I think, you know, like anybody else, I don't take myself. Seriously, I recognize the milestones that I face, I recognize the journey that is before me and the challenges that exist, but of course, my perspective and view through life is being a woman, being a black woman, being a southern black woman.

[00:17:46]

I remember when I first joined news here in New York and being in the newsroom, and I jokingly said to a friend in Texas, they're all from the same Upper West Side neighborhood of New York.

[00:17:59]

And I didn't mean it in a disparaging way, but I was stunned how few people were from outside of this area. Many of them had gone to Harvard, which is phenomenal, Yale and the same kind of pedigree that existed in the newsroom on a national level that I was quite surprised to see. Well, you are obviously a tough woman. What kind of man, even before you were married, just throughout your process and having a good relationship? I read that your husband checks in on you and calls and it sounds like you're having a beautiful, beautiful love affair every day, which is is is models and inspirational.

[00:18:45]

But what kind of man can handle a tough, strong woman like you who has so much going on? It could be intimidating. It could be emasculating. What kind of man can handle that?

[00:18:56]

I think a man who doesn't see it that way, I don't think I'm tough, actually. I think I'd fall in line with most women. I mean, I think I'm resilient when I need to be. I think that I'm direct when I have to be. But I don't I don't particularly. I remember years ago I interviewed Patti LaBelle when I was and she's now a great friend and a great supporter. But years ago, I interviewed her for my local news show in Chicago.

[00:19:24]

And I remember she happened to see the teleprompter and it said Sassy described her as sassy or someone had written that. And she said, don't say that, don't read that. It was a commercial break. And she said, don't call me sassy. And I look at like, oh, my gosh. And she says, I'm not sassy. I'm a grown woman. And I am. She goes on to say what it was. And I was like, Oh.

[00:19:49]

And it just was a reality check for me. And that when we speak up for ourselves, we're tough. And I that that's a negative thing. It's just I'm going through life day to day, speaking up for myself appropriately and, you know, trying to find the best way forward with kindness, but also being fair to myself because you think tough and strong are very different words.

[00:20:15]

I think tough and strong are used against us and NATO. I don't that's so funny. I see the opposite side of that coin because you're not a black woman.

[00:20:24]

Let me tell you. That is correct.

[00:20:28]

That incorrect, Bill, Obama famously talked about being seen as the angry black one.

[00:20:34]

Oh, interesting.

[00:20:35]

Oh, so tough and strong is different for a black woman. That's interesting. That's interesting perspectives.

[00:20:42]

No, no, no. I think it's different. I think it can be weaponized. I think just as you just talked about, what kind of man can handle a tough woman. The implication is there needs to be someone to handle that.

[00:20:55]

I need someone to handle me. So I.

[00:20:58]

I believe that I don't know how to handle me. I need someone to be on the journey because I'm not I'm not to be handled.

[00:21:07]

I don't think that every man can be in a relationship with a woman who is so successful. And what I believe to be strong and smart, I think I think that there is a certain type of man or woman if you're in a same sex relationship, there's a certain type of partner that is required for that type of partnership, just like in a being in a business relationship with a certain kind of partner that, you know, that can handle a woman who is not successful.

[00:21:36]

I mean, or how do we how do we do that?

[00:21:39]

Probably. But yes, there is I think I think you have to be more secure to handle a very successful woman. I think not all people are secure. And I think a person has to be very secure to be in a relationship with a successful, busy, you know, thriving, accomplished person. I think it does take a certain type.

[00:22:00]

Does that mean he. Well, I. I don't know. I mean, I love this conversation because I understand how one comes to that conclusion, but I. I don't.

[00:22:13]

Do you feel at this you talked about sort of providing for your family? I've read a bunch of articles that you've been featured in. And do you feel that you work for the passion, the idea? Do you still do you have a good relationship with money? Because I know that you've explained your history. And so even having an education and being successful is is a major accomplishment. So how do you feel about your motivation for doing the things that you're doing, still to provide for still to to create a great life for your child or solely driven on just the passion and the idea?

[00:22:49]

And how far can you take this journey?

[00:22:51]

Well, it's changed over time. I think when I was single with our child, it was as long as I could have the things that I need. I'm OK. Not that those things were small, that I needed as much as anybody else. And like the things I like, the creature comforts of life. But I always felt early on in my career, listen, if I do it right, if I keep my head down, if I work hard, then the money will come.

[00:23:18]

You and I both know pay equity is an issue not just for women who work gig, work jobs. It's across the board and including a new. Which is not talked about very much, so you have this huge pay disparity and then it's also falls largely along many other lines as well. And so throughout my career, I did well and I would always say, you get the first contract, I'm going to get you on the second and the third because I was going to work very hard, that first contract.

[00:23:45]

And I've done that a lot to say that and not take it on the back end.

[00:23:50]

I'm like I used to tell people I'm going to go in with a number that I know I'm willing to take for that first deal. And after that, I'm going to go in and negotiate or leave. And so that was early on. And then once I had my son and things changed, you know, you start to work to make sure, especially if I can be quite honest and I'm going to always be that, you know, I'm an older mom and I it doesn't keep me up at night.

[00:24:17]

But there are nights where I have that flash of, oh, my God, you know, how long will I have him? How can now be there for him now? And I want to make sure he's OK now. Money doesn't make it all OK. I'm just what I read the whole story about the so-called Ghetty curse, this wealthy family, and they've been allegedly curse. They wanted, one, a drug overdose and have a kid at this issue.

[00:24:44]

And it's just they've had all the money in the world, but all of the tragedy that you can imagine that came along with it. So I know that leaving my kid with this huge amount of money is not going to sustain the quality of his life so much, no more than that. But obviously, on the on the base level, you want him to be able to go to college if he wants to go to and set him up if you're not there.

[00:25:10]

And so I view it in a different way now than I did, of course, before I had him. Yeah, well, I think I do that, too, I turned 50, you just turned 50 also, I think yeah, in September. So I turned in November and I was in the bathtub with my daughter and she said, I make a cry. She said, you know, what about at my fiftieth birthday? And I thought to myself, God, who knows if the mic in your fiftieth birthday.

[00:25:34]

And she cried and I cried and you know, so but you have to be in the moment and try to just make it meaningful and be healthy. But we have those when you're when you have children later in life, you have these sort of irrational yet somewhat rational fears.

[00:25:50]

You know, it's called future tripping. And we do it at different points for different reasons. You know, in your twenties, you future trip about am I going to get that big job that I want to go down a rabbit hole middle of night. My minister has a saying where she says, don't believe what you tell yourself about yourself at night. That's amazing. And so because you're lying in bed and all these creepy things come into your mind.

[00:26:13]

And so that happens with me, with my son. But, you know, going back to how I was raised, my mother, I very close her mother passed away when she was only ten years old. And so a lot of us know how long we're here, but we also know science and rationalize that we won't be ever.

[00:26:31]

And so those are the things that impact the way I view money today and how I view even how I negotiate when I go in to negotiate a deal. Right now I have a book deal and I'm working on a book. I go in thinking I'm not negotiating for me, I'm negotiating for my son. And that does allow me to go in in a different with a different level of directness and aggression that I might not have gone in with ten years ago.

[00:27:11]

You know, the thing is, the word conversation has never been used so much and misused so much because I have never seen a time where you cannot have a conversation, like I will say something and someone will disagree. And it's cursing and bullying and and I'm OK with it, not because I'm OK with it, but because I watch people on social media then debating about a certain issue, whether it's political or race related. And I watch them debating and it becomes this forum where at least I can see where people are coming from.

[00:27:44]

I won't tolerate if people are being abusive, but I like to see people sort of going back and forth. And I've had people say terrible things to me, but I said we can we just need to be able to have a conversation. I can disagree with you, and that's OK, because I will not learn if I keep listening to the voices in my own head like you talked about late at night. But I will learn if I understand why you feel differently than I do, why you voted differently.

[00:28:09]

That's OK. It just has to be a conversation. And on the side, I went with some people over to the side in my messages and people really do want to be heard and they can change their perspective. I don't mean that they're going to change their whole point of view, but when you say, you know, if I said that, I thought the voting, the numbers, the gap was too wide that I didn't think was going to bridge the gap and people really wanted you know, they wanted to be called officially and not for me to make any comments prior.

[00:28:38]

And I said to some people, OK, I give you that. I will I will award you that no matter what I believe and you believe something different, that you want the hammer to go down and the ref to call the fight before something is said. And it was it was good because it was a learning experience for people who had come at me for something that I said that I really was behind. But it was a learning experience for me and that people wanted just to have their moment in court just to no matter what.

[00:29:03]

So I think this has to be we have to get into a place where people can have conversations and women are having really negative conversations right now and more polarized than ever. Yeah, I agree.

[00:29:16]

Listen, I think for the most part, I think people have good intentions. I always believed that. And even on the darkest days, I believe that most things, even the incident that you referred to, are born from more awkwardness and just kind of misunderstanding than malice. I agree. I think that one of the things I've learned from now 30 years of reporting and now having this show for two and a half years is we have to also stop trying to change people's minds.

[00:29:47]

Know, I don't like that casual. Let's agree to disagree. I think that's very dismissive. I think when you approach a conversation, whether you are aware of it or not, so often we do in hopes of changing someone's mind. I remember years ago I did an interview with a congresswoman who at the time was against same sex marriage, and she went on a tirade. I got a lot of negative comments on Twitter from people saying, why didn't you come out and tell her that?

[00:30:15]

I didn't. And I said, But don't you want to know where she stands so that. Yes. And make a decision about not to vote for her. Yes. Like, we can't beat people down into lying to us. So now we have made them put on a mask and we put them in this situation where are they're masking who they are. And then at some point they reveal them, trust their true self. So this is what I apply in relationships and business.

[00:30:43]

And when I interview people, whatever it is, I mean, it's like suddenly you go on a date and you keep telling the guy or woman who they are. Yeah, it goes well for a short period of time. And then suddenly they pull that mask off that they feel you have wanted them to wear and they reveal their suit. There's a movie that I love. It's called The Devil's Advocate. It's Al Pacino movie, serial movie. I think I remember it.

[00:31:10]

And I used to compare that when I first moved to New York and I called my mother and I said, oh, my gosh, what is it like? And I said, oh, my gosh, I feel like people have all of these masks on. And then suddenly you pull them off and there they're these monsters behind these masks. I didn't say that to, you know, put down on people. There were some who deserve to be looked down, I'll be honest with you, but most unsettling and it's unsettling.

[00:31:35]

And so when we again created the show, I said, no, it's about taking off the masks. Of course, you're going to wear some layer of a mask to protect yourself, your family. I mean, people said, oh, you kept your your pregnancy and your your marriage a secret. I said that was so secret. I was protecting my privacy. I was starting out in a new relationship with my husband. And I wanted our foundation to be strong because I know the minute you come out in the relationship, people are going to do this and say this and say that.

[00:32:00]

So I want to the foundation of our relationship to be strong that I agree with withstand anything.

[00:32:06]

And so we're so excited to be in the relationship. We rush out. You tell everybody the worst. And then that's the best, in my opinion, it's no worse. And so we're all in a relationship together and really shocked the country and you're not able to build your foundation.

[00:32:20]

So for us, I wanted us to believe, especially because we're interracial marriage, we are interfaith, I'm Christian, he's Jewish. Just so many things. Yes. It's not like we're ours to build and it didn't belong to anyone else. Wasn't a secret. I was just protecting our privacy, which is OK for anyone to do. But, you know, for me, as it relates to the masks and in talking with people, rather than going in with the intention of changing their minds, I think that is something that I work on personally and I also work on professionally.

[00:32:54]

When I go into an interview and I'm talking with someone, we had an interview with Stacey Schroeder, who I've gotten herself into some trouble regarding Rason. And I interviewed her and I said, you know, I'm not here to change your mind. I'm here to have a conversation and point out, you know, what happened and why people had the reaction and ask for questions. But I'm not here to heal anyone. I jokingly say I am not a John Le Mans and I can't fix my own damn life.

[00:33:20]

So I can't anybody else's. But I can talk with someone and I do not. I try my best not to approach with conclusions or approach a conversation where I'm here to change your mind.

[00:33:34]

You're there to explore. So when you were not working for two years for the first time and you left the Today Show, how was your did you find that your identity was connected to work more than you thought? Did you feel depressed? How did it affect your life or were you able to just place of it and just live in the truth of what it was?

[00:33:54]

I went through UPS, to be honest with you, when I was 18 years old, a friend's mom gave me this book. It's not even in the path of light. And those chapters stuck with me all those years. I didn't know when it would really impact me, but there was a line that said, you know, who are you if there's no title under your business card? And so since I was 18, I've been carrying this book around and this has been a part of my mantra just ever so slightly, not at all deep thinking.

[00:34:25]

It's just there in the back of my mind. And when I left the Today show, I remember people calling, saying, oh my gosh, what happened? And I listen to the tone. And there were others who said, what's next? And I separated folks into two categories, the who died category because I'm like, nobody died. I can live to fight another day. And those who were inspiring and said, what's next? So for me, I woke up the next day was surreal in so many ways because it had been a goal of mine.

[00:34:58]

And this accomplishment, as you well know what you get something you've been really striving for. And it turns out not to be at all what you expected and certainly didn't in the way I expected. I went on about my way and it was probably about three months in that I had my first wave of worry, not depression. It's more of, oh, my gosh, is it over again angst? Is it over for me? I was getting offers, but they were offers that, you know, maybe somebody is in the business two years.

[00:35:31]

Are you kidding me. Know and not say that with bravado as much as again that that what am I value. What have I been doing this whole twenty eight years that I'm getting this kind of offer. And so I was in Los Angeles and I remember this quote, whether it was accurate or not that I read about Jennifer Aniston saying during this period of hardship in her personal life, she said, you know, you throw yourself a pity party and you get up and you move on.

[00:35:59]

And I thought, OK, you know what? Let me throw myself a pity party. And I did in this room. And then I went and I put on a swimsuit and said, I'm going to go at 3:00 in the afternoon. And my pity party went a long time. And I got up and I said, let me go to the pool. And I walked to the pool alone, which again, is this insecure moment like I'm going it is my life such a loser that I'm walking to the pool by myself in your hotel.

[00:36:25]

And I went to the pool and I sat down two of other women across and just I didn't know them there on the pool. And within about five minutes, who is now my husband, Steven walked in to the stop and you stop. And he you met your husband at your pity party. I met him right after I'd thrown it and I'd gone into the pool area after the party. Wow, that's crazy. Where was this?

[00:36:50]

It's in Los Angeles at the Sunset Marquee and at the pool after the party.

[00:36:56]

Right after the party. That's crazy. And I've known him just from work. That's energy. That is so cellular. That is so energy. It is. It is.

[00:37:05]

And I had known him from a distance. He was in the business and he. It's kind of in passing, hey, he's always like yours, but nothing and I didn't think he was hitting on me and I didn't think one way or the other about it. We had mutual friends and but never socialized or never spoken to one another.

[00:37:22]

That's so nice. What? I have three things to say. One is, if anything ever goes wrong in your life, I would be the friend who wouldn't have said what happened and I wouldn't have said, what are we doing next? I would have said, how are we having this moment now? Like, how are we going to make this moment just like this moment in the pandemic, which I'm trying to make it into a place of. Yes.

[00:37:42]

And meditate and self care and sleep and nurture at a time with my daughter. I would have been here in the moment, friend. And the next thing that hit me was that I really believe you gave yourself the pity party and you not we're not energetically ready to meet someone unless you close that door. But you probably wouldn't have had the space to nurture a relationship the way that you had had you still been at the Today show, like knowing the grind that this business is.

[00:38:07]

So it's interesting. That might have been a gift that you got the space.

[00:38:10]

Was it on every level? Listen, I probably wouldn't have gotten pregnant because I wouldn't have been trying and the stress and and the time that it takes. And I would. And I would because I had to lose the show to get a job, you know. So, yeah, at the time you're I can say this, the one feeling and I love that you used the were angst because I definitely did that day. Despite everything, I have to be honest, there was never a moment of fear.

[00:38:39]

Like I wondered how it would work out. I had a little angst of how I was going to work out. But going back to, again, a quote that I have no idea if he actually ever said it. But Will Smith, I read a quote once, said something along the lines of, you know, Life is a book. And the reason the thing that's kept him going is he is curious about the ending and not the literal ending of a good bye, but the ending.

[00:39:02]

And so I've always looked at my life like a like in that curious book way. It always reminds me when I was younger and my. Yeah, my mom gave me the book. Are you there? God, it's me, Margaret and that book. And so I've often looked at my life like this, this book. And it's the journey. And I'm and and it has not, at least at that moment, been one of fear since you are a professional journalist, interviewer who's been doing this for more years.

[00:39:29]

And I even realize. So I apologize. Do you have any advice for me? Do I mean, do you do you have any tips?

[00:39:35]

Are you kidding me? For you? You're outstanding, I have to say. And I'm not and I don't I'm not a big Bouser. I think it's because it's the Texas Texan and me. You've asked some of the most thoughtful questions that I've had in a long time, and that's refreshing because it is a reminder to me, even on my own journey, how you talk with people, how you speak with people, your intention in the conversation all matters.

[00:40:04]

And I felt it from the minute we started to talk from, you know, does the man know how to handle a woman? I think it's it's a reminder of the value of a conversation. And so I appreciate it. I think you did a fantastic job. And congratulations on everything and appreciate you. I appreciate you very much.

[00:40:24]

Well, I appreciate you and the courage to have a baby later in life and go through that process and just really be positive about it. And I'm sure scared and and just what a journey that is. I mean, I didn't realize until yesterday exactly how busy you are set to take the time and let the conversation breathe. I really appreciate it so much. And there's so much takeaway and for women to learn. So thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[00:40:46]

OK, take care. Bye bye.

[00:40:52]

I know time and how I met her, I met her in New Mexico on vacation. I don't know that much about her. I just know that she's a successful journalist that's on television, that is a career woman. Smart.

[00:41:06]

But I really this show makes me really sort of dive into people's lives personally, professionally and understand who they are, what makes them tick. And I've never done that in any arena before where I've learned about people in this industry.

[00:41:22]

And talking to Tyra was so interesting and challenging and thought provoking and inspirational. And I just feel with every conversation, I'm talking to somebody who has some similarities to me, some differences, and I love it.

[00:41:41]

I just love the fact that we come from different backgrounds. We have different perspectives. We are literally less than two months apart in age. We have had children later in life and have one child and. I have been on this path to success, which includes many different factors and elements in juggling and balancing and organising and structuring and different perspectives on a male driven business and paid differences. And obviously, she's a black woman in entertainment and I'm a white woman, which means that I'm starting with a better hand.

[00:42:29]

A better hand of cards, so I just I don't know, I thought the conversation was just really interesting because we come from different perspectives and have different viewpoints.

[00:42:39]

And we both ended up meeting in the middle on so many things and having what we are talking about as being the most important thing needs to happen right now, particularly with women, which is a conversation.

[00:42:50]

And I think that this show just keeps giving me more, more depth in the realm of conversation. So I love it. I loved it. I thought she was really interesting and inspirational and I'm grateful to have had her on today.

[00:43:11]

GSP is hosted and executive produced by me, Bethenny Frankel, Brail Productions and Endeavor Content. Our managing producer is Samantha Allison and our producer is Caroline Hamilton. Corey Venture is our consulting producer with the ever faithful, Sarah Cattanach as our assistant producer. Our development executive is Nayantara Roy. Jospeh is a production of Endeavour content and spoke media. This episode was mixed by Sam Baer. And to catch more moments from the show, follow us on Instagram and just be with.