Aaron, how are you doing, Rob? It's Rob Lowe, how are you? Good. Good to talk to you. I'm so excited.

Welcome to the podcast, The Great Aaron Sorkin is my guest, and, you know, in a career, there are certain people who are so important to you both, as, you know, an actor, artist, whatever you are.

And just as a person and and Erin is one of those people for me, Erin changed my life, changed my career. And I remember the very first time I was ever aware of him. I read a screenplay called Mallis.

I wanted to play the part because the dialogue was so insanely good. Of course, the part went to Alec Baldwin, but I never forgot the name Aaron Sorkin. And then one day my agent, I told them I might want to do television. It was back in the days when you just did not do television because it was a lesser industry. And they sent me a script called The West Wing and I thought it was an offshoot of Pensacola Wings of Gold.

Thought it might be about a fighter jet squadron. It wasn't. And I opened the page up and saw The West Wing written by Aaron Sorkin. And I knew what I was in for. And on the first page was vintage Aaron Sorkin and a character named Sam Seaborn.

I don't think we're going to run the table, that's for sure. It's not deep background. I'm not going to come close to using your name. You're not going to come close to getting a quote. Why are we sitting here? You sat down with Josh on his way out. No, Izzy, no. I know he's your friend. He is dead. Caldwell I'm not talking about this. Who do I call? No one. Just tell me who to call.

Or you could call one 800. Bite me, Sam.

We've just reunited to do the long anticipated, much talked about, much questioned West Wing reunion, which it took a very good cause when we vote, the bipartisan effort to get everybody out to do their constitutional duty, that seemed like a good excuse to put all the people back on the field and see if we still knew how to play, play the music. And I think we did well. And I think you're going to like it. And it is out today on HBO.

Max, if you wanted more West Wing, we've got you covered as long as you vote.

So here we are, the and you and I did not get a chance to talk much at the by the way, we're rolling. There's no preamble here. There's no fancy highfalutin introductions.

I like good enough. And I can tell you that it's looking great. The West Wing special.

Tell me everything you know. You've got a sneak peak on the West Wing. What the what are the dailies? Look at what's what. Tell me everything.

Past the dailies. We have a cut. What we are just doing sort of final tweaks on it and it looks great. Tommy did a great job. You guys did a great job. Jon Huntsman did a great job in it. I'm not sure what to call it. It kind of looks like a play, but it fell beautifully. I think you're going to like it. Oh, I'm so excited.

It was people have asked me, obviously, what was it like doing the the West Wing reunion? And I, I think I told this. It was kind of like. Going to see the Rolling Stones like, do they still have it? Those guys do it like that. And then that was the greatest part to watch.

Just you guys taking no time at all to get right back to where you are.

It's just it was like it felt very surreal to me. I mean, one of the things that I found is like playing Sam Seaborne again is I used to think that I kind of was that guy. And I realized because so much time has gone on is like he was a kid.

Like I feel like now I'm a man playing Sam Seaborne and it's not the same at all to me.

And like, you know, you've aged I've sort of aged out of out of him at that point in his life. Does that make any sense at all? It does it's not a problem, though, I mean, you definitely have the spirit of Sam and can play the part and it's. It seeing the older versions of everybody, I was really nice. There's a. I love the characters aged well, I felt I was blown away with Martin, blown away.

He has not lost one step, he told Is Martin now 80 years old, and we have listened. He's great in the show and sort of coming in and out of acts. And for the for the main title sequence, it's black and white. Behind the scenes footage, there are shots of Martin dancing with you. He hasn't lost a step. Wow.

He he you know, memory is hard that the show's historically hard on people who don't have good, good memories. We you know, everybody from top to bottom was always really good at it. Nobody ever really struggled that much on the show. But, you know, he's 80 and he was all over it. I mean, like all over it and as sharp as a tack.

And he was he was as good as the day we shot the scene. How many years ago? How many years ago do you think we shot Hartsfield Landing?

We shot Hartsfield Landing 19 years ago. Good Lord.

And you're right, he was as good as the day he shot it. Everybody was.

And I still had the same reaction when he told me that I he said, you know, you I know they're on film.

It's it's you choke up. I mean, we choke up the audience.

It's it's funny. And and Tommy had a great piece of direction. I thought we had it. It was really, really great. And I was all really happy that Tommy took Martin aside and gave him a piece of direction. I was like, I wonder what that's about. UCITS. Well, I mean, I'm happy to do it again. I'm happy to be one hundred times and what he and what he said was apparently. He said to Martin, Tommy Shlomi, our director, said to Martin, say this as if you're saying it to John Spencer.

And that that's the take that I think that was the final take, I'm pretty sure you'll have to ask Tommy, but it was I felt the same way.

I remember getting the script of Hartsfield Landing. I remember where I was when I got it. You know, we did, you know, you and I did four years of it. There's a lot of scripts I don't remember. Yeah, we're reading every one of them. But I remember reading that one. I was lying in bed in my rented Studio City house. That was seven minutes from the stage because as you know, all we did was shoot.

Yes, I could wake up and be on the set in seven minutes with my hair wet from the shower.

And I remember reading it the night before and getting to the reading that scene where he says, I'll run for president one day. And I remember bursting into tears and oh, I think it was a number of things behind it, not the least of which was feeling great for Sam. But I felt like it was such a sweet. Vote of confidence, and it's like it was like you felt like dad went, your dad was saying, hey, I'm proud of you, and I think that is right.

Well, you know, when I was looking for an episode for us to do, I suddenly remembered Clarksville's landing, which which wasn't at the top of my mind. And I just remembered that it was about voting. And I went back and I watched it for the first time since it aired 19 years ago. I'm always afraid of going watch, going back and watching the show because I don't want. I worry that my memory is better than what it actually was.

Yeah, but I watch Hartsfield Landing and it was great. Everybody was just giving a beautiful performance and the episode was just right for for what we're doing for get out the vote special and. I felt exactly the same way about it, watching it being shot again last weekend and then looking at the cut, it's like I said, it aged well, I think I think they all do.

My thing about not watching the West Wing, and I'm like you, I don't really watch it, and my thing is because it's like it would be as if I was in an episode of Bewitched and got to go back in time and look at the first girl I fell in love with, like a.

Did you I mean, that's what it feels like to me, it's like I can't I would always watch it when it aired. I would watch it Wednesday at nine o'clock with with everyone else because I just kind of wanted to. To watch it through everyone else's eyes, to kind of pretend I was seeing it for the first time like the audience, and just experienced that, but then I would never watch it after that. So it had been a while.

But that one doesn't disappoint. I know it would be like asking about your children, because these every episode literally are your children, and I'm sure I'm not the first person to ever ask you that top three any possible. I think I know if you are going to answer this question. I think I know what they're going to be.

Tell me, because I can't answer the questions that you tell me what you think my top three are. All right. I think you have to go with the pilot because the pilot is the pilot is the pilot, and it's it's sort of. You know, it's sort of the perfect pilot people to talk about the Wonder Years pilot and the West Wing pilot as being because they were they arrived fully formed like shows great as The Sopranos or Breaking Bad or Mad Men.

You know, it takes it takes a little bit of like The Sopranos for me, kicked in. I remember the episode. It kicked in. It kicked in when Tony went and took meto on a college tour and had to excuse himself to kill somebody. Yes, that's when it became The Sopranos. But it was not. You look at the pilot of The Sopranos, it's almost you're like, oh, OK. Yeah, it's actually kind of fun to watch.

And I thought that we had some some very good first season episodes, including the pilot. But I for me, I felt like it took a season to learn how to write the show.

I've heard you say that there are given one episode. They absolutely stand.

Yeah, I like the pilot. I like. I also think I think I was thinking you would pick shadow of two gunmen. And two cathedrals, I think, would be on your list, so if you were you were you good episodes and shadow of two gunmen, I consider a second pilot. You know, we this was back in the days where there were summer reruns, and that is actually where we became a hit. What happened was people started hearing about the show through the first season.

And then once we were in reruns in the summer, that that new audience that was coming to it. Remember, in a time where there weren't smart TVs, you couldn't time shift. You had to watch the show less than a VCR. You had to watch the show at Wednesday at nine. People started coming to it in the summer. And Shadow Two Gunmen was the rare episode that I knew about in advance, that I knew that we were heading towards that.

And it was a way of piloting the show at the beginning of the second season for people who were just coming to it, that all introduce these characters all over again in a different way.

I remember sitting you'd probably never knew this. I remember sitting behind you. On the flight home from wrap of Episode 22 to season one, and you leaned over and someone had been shot, we just didn't know who.

And I remember overhearing you saying it was going to be Josh and that was the member of that flight, was that whatever United Airlines flight that we always took that morning was the flight was the route and time that eventually went into the Pentagon on 9/11.

That's what's right. Always so that's right, it was certainly eerie. I do remember telling Tommy, too, in terms of who was going to get shot to leave my options open when he shot the season one finale. Had I known. Who is going to get shot in the shadow of two gunmen? We could have just shot it there while we were shooting that the Season one finale. Right. We could have shot the teaser to episode two or one, season two, episode one.

But that would have been a busy production, Aaron. We don't do that. That is not our brand.

Well, funny you should bring that up, because what you missed after we wrapped you is that our two day schedule turned into a four day shoot I'm especially talking about.

So, yeah, we got right into that groove again to. Well, so for for the for those of you who have not had the the dubious luxury of working on an hour long network drama, they're beasts. They're you know, it's traditional that you shoot 12 hours a day, sometimes a little less.

But usually, you know, you're going to shoot a 12 hour day and going to shoot five days a week on the West Wing.

I would say we routinely shot a minimum of 13 hour days, sometimes 16.

Yes. And by the time Fridays rolled around, we the first year of the West Wing, when we shot on Fridays, I never left the lot before the sun had come up on Saturday. It was it was crazy.

And remember, this is a show where nothing's exploding right there except our had visual effects.

It is people talking in rooms and freezing. I mean, the reason was we were trying to to make it good.

But you're right, by the time we got to Friday, because the call keeps getting later and later each day. By the time we got to Friday, you know, we'd be starting at 3:00 in the afternoon. We'd be ending at sunrise on Saturday. Allison's trailer turned into a bar night. Yes, yes.

And then the most maddening thing was seeing the friend's car. We were our stage was right next to the front stage, and I think we overlapped. I think our first season was their last season or our first two seasons with the last two seasons. And there were six parking spaces right next to their soundstage.

It was six cars. And yes, they their cars were there for the Monday table read and the Thursday audience taping. They'd just gotten really good at at doing friends.

You know, the other thing it's funny about The West Wing, as you realize, there was there were no there were no Blackberries. We had a pager. The the the pilot turned on the plot point of me having the wrong pager. Blackberries came in to the point of having their own pager.

The teaser, the whole opening of the series depended entirely on the audience not knowing what the acronym Potosí stood for, which is amazing acronym we're all familiar with today.

That's right. And because of I'm convinced it's because it's for sure because the West Wing look, I was a a student of politics and I was unaware of the acronym Perdis.

Yeah, me too. And we did it, I think in the second season we gave you guys Blackberries because BlackBerry had just given them to the real White House staff and they wanted our guys to carry them, too. So you're one of the first people to have Blackberries. And you know how every once in a while there'd be an eight or nine page scene with basically the entire cast in the Oval Office.

Those would be the scenes where directors would go to die because, yes, you got to get coverage of everybody in the scene. It's a room that has no corners in it or no straight walls. It's tough to figure out where to put the camera. And there'll always be like one character in the scene who on page nine said, thank you, Mr. President.

And that's all they had. Yes. Yes.

And. When it was Whitford's turn to be that person who only had something on page nine and and we had told you guys that just like the real staffers, when you're in these meetings, it's OK every once in a while, check your BlackBerry or return something. And so Whitford would send us a text at the monitors just saying, how's my hair look?

That's what he was doing during those. Hold that thought. We'll be right back. Well, like everything else in these challenging times, it's very hard for business owners to find the people they need to hire. And it's harder, even more so for people who are looking for jobs to find the right jobs.

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Hey, everybody. Conan O'Brien here to let you know about Team Koko's virtual comedy show hosted by my good friend, the very funny comedian Moses Storm. Moses Storeman friend streams every other Thursday on Team Koko's YouTube twitch and Facebook pages. Past guests have been Chris Read, Joakim Booster, Rachel Bloom, bestselling Kal Penn, Ron Funchess, Angela Johnston and so many more. It's really a fantastic comedy show, Jampacked, featuring some of my favorite people, and I'd like you to check it out.

If you get a chance. Follow Team Coco live on Instagram for the latest show dates and guest lineups. Well, people don't know about the cast is what the cast is, one of the great cast of all time and every actor is better than the next one and just cuts across the board. The 27 Yankees, although I did have to explain, I did have to explain to somebody what the 27 Yankees was recently.

That made me very sad, really, that I was like, they're very good baseball players. The analogy is we're very that was a line up of very good actors. That's the analogy. But people don't realize is how. There was a the scene stealing. Were you aware of the amount of scene stealing that was attempted? I was not.

What what were people doing? I know. Richard usually had food in his hand, Richard, if Richard could if you let Richard Schiff, he would enter every scene on a unicycle juggling a pizza if you let him.

It's one of the things I've always loved about the West Wing. And it's a tribute to you and and Tommie. And John is is is the casting of Richard in the show, like in that era of television? I'm not sure Richard gets that job. With anybody other than, listen, we you're right at the cast of the twenty seven Yankees and what you what you can't predict, what we couldn't predict was the chemistry in the cast between you and everyone, between Allison and everyone, Martin and everyone, gentlemen, everyone.

And that was an amazing thing to see. What was anxiety inducing for me was. The number of mouths to feed now that when you have Shaq and Kobe on the same team is smart enough basketball. Yeah, sure. And that just wanting to give everyone a good story, a great couple of scenes in every episode. And the other Sam was like this week, that kind of thing, because anywhere you went with the ball was somebody who can hit it off and jump shot.

And now with the basketball analogy, open jump shot is a shot in the basketball parlance, where it requires a tremendous ability to get it into the cylinder. Correct. That's Allison Janney. That is Allison Janney.

She can hit that open. Jay didn't you know? I knew she was going to win every award known to mankind. I nicknamed her. It didn't really stick, but I nicknamed her hardware because she was going to have so much hardware on that mantle.

And and it's true. I mean, even more so than I ever imagined when we cast Allison.

I had only ever seen her do one thing. Trip on a flight of stairs in Primary Colors, she had a quick scene with Travolta where she plays a teacher. Travolta's character, his Clinton character, had done a thing at a school. And we see later he's going to sleep with her, but we just see her walking upstairs and she just kind of trips down the stairs. So I knew I wanted her to read for The West Wing and she was phenomenal.

And I'm just thrilled with the amount of hardware that she's picked up, not just for our show, but for everything since obviously including her Oscar. And and she's not done yet, you know, she hasn't done the best thing to do yet, none of you have.

Did you ever did you know that? I was. I was in the audience of her high school gymnasium when she made her acting debut.

I did not know that. Tell us about that. So I and Alison, I only did the math and put it all together. Years into the show and I was like, you're from Dayton, I'm from Dayton, where do you go to high school? Miami Valley High School. Oh yeah, I remember I, I didn't go there.

That was the fancy, like fancy school. And I was only there once. I was in their gymnasium and they were putting on a production of a funny thing happened on the way to the forum. And Allison looked at me with those big eyes and said I was in that play and it was my acting debut.

Oh, God, holy cow. What are the what are the odds?

The odds are very long on that. Did you know that Alison was on her way to being like a serious world class figure skater? But something terrible happened. Her parents were having like a backyard party and the phone rang inside the house and Allison ran to get it and went through a glass door and.

Oh. Then she bled a lot, and that was the end of her figure skating career, which I'm sorry about, but if it if that's what got her to be an actress, then. In the end, I won, that brings a whole new meaning to her performance and I Tonya. That's right, I hadn't even thought of that watching, right? I hadn't even thought of that. Yeah, it really does, doesn't it?

Oh my God, that's amazing. I hadn't thought of that. I wonder if she channeled that for, like, how to do it. How much deeply resents her kid. Yeah. Yeah.

Then there was your audition, my friend.

I was going to ask you this. People don't realize is you when you when you first everybody has to read for for anything Erin does as they should. And it's and and you read with them. I read with you for my audition for Sam.

Yes. And when I walked into the casting session on and off the table in the session, she was coming in that day and I saw your name. I think you've got to be kidding that, first of all, not going to read. And second of all. Rob Lowe can't be in the show, he's he's a movie star, he's he's going to take all the focus in every scene so the whole thing out of balance. And you came in and as soon as he walked out, I said, listen, he has to play his part.

Nobody else can do it. That's exactly what I mean. He's got to do this. We've got to get it. That's how you're cast. It became an imperative of all.

I was so because, you know, as an actor, at a certain point, you know, most actors don't want to audition anymore for good reason.

It's nerve wracking. It's hard. The ability to audition often has no translation to your ability to do the job, actually. Exactly right.

And you have a body of work that we can look at and, you know, come to some judgment.

But they sent me this script and it was I and I don't think I've ever had it since, honestly, where I read it.

And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm. I'm the only guy I'm the only guy that can play this like I literally thought. There'll be other version iterations of it.

Sure, somebody could do it, but I know I knew in my bones immediately how what where I just like, saw full field of view.

So I was really excited to come in. It was clear that you saw the event, you saw the whole board is party planning parlance. It was clear that you were excited to come in. And that, by the way, that is also something when you see an actor of your stature, very happy to come in and read. It's not like we got a call saying Rob Lowe is interested. And we said, well, he's going to need to come in and read.

It's the first I knew of your interested in this was when I walked into the room that day. That's an unbelievable I I went from this couldn't possibly work to this is the only thing that could possibly work. That is that. I, I also remember. There were a lot of people in the room and, you know, it's that big speech where Sam, you know, mistakes, you know Alison Smith for being a schoolteacher when she's actually Leo's daughter and stepson, it badly.

And it got a big laugh at the end and a big laugh. And I'll never forget you turning to whoever was there representing the higher ups. And you said I told you the scene was funny.

You remember that. I remember that. I took credit for your opposition. No, no, no.

I was great because I was like, oh, OK. Because I found it funny. I always I mean, I think the people who do your stuff the best are the people who find the effervescent, funny stuff. And it comes naturally to them. And it was patently clear to me that, you know, obviously it's real and it's grounded, but it should be fucking hilarious. And when you said it was funny, it was clear to me that there are other people that could read that same scene on the page and not.

Not see where the humor is. I'll bet you that is what happened, that other people had come in and had not been funny and then you just parked. This is bad on so many levels in the first. And I remember I have to say it was it that was that was it. It was it was one of the most fun things in my career was auditioning for the West Wing. Really was it was it was challenging.

I really was doing was one of the most fun things of mine now.

Well, I mean and then, you know, we went a lot. Not a lot of people know that we went to London together after the West Wing and did a few good men.

Are you aware of what? Of what happened to me on opening night? God, no.

God, what story my about to hear. Well, first, let's just give some background. Yeah, OK. We did see the man had never been in London, never been on the West End. So we did it with Rob starring and an otherwise British cast. We did at the Royal Haymarket Theatre, a beautiful theatre with Oscar Wilde Theatre. And now I'm about to get scared out of what happened on opening night. I was there. Everything seemed fine, I think.

I think later on when I came up to you and told you what had happened, I think you might have stepped out for a cigarette and miss as possible. Well, here's what had happened.

There had been a moment in rehearsals that had never really gotten the laugh that we all wanted. It was opening night. Now, for those of you who don't know in England, all the critics come on opening night on Broadway, you do what's called previews and you never know.

They could be you could have one on one night and two weeks later when the having four or five nights before opening so that they can have their pieces ready for opening night. Yes, but you're right.

In the West End, they they still all come on opening night, which makes it tremendously stressful, like it's. The stakes are massive yet, and there was one it was such an innocuous moment, I can't even remember what it was, but for the first time, this little mini moment worked and it got a reaction and I felt so good about it. That I think I allowed myself to maybe not concentrate as well as I should have, and the next thing I know, I'm I'm I have an actor on the on the press and prosecuting him, and I see his face go white.

And I realize I've jumped three pages ahead.

This one waited a while before telling me that I just don't remember anything about that. I don't know anything about that. OK, so I'm not kidding this one hundred percent true story and. I'll never forget it. Time slows down now, as you I don't need to tell you, you fucking wrote it. You understand this. There's a lot of exposition that needs to be told.

I just cut two pages out of it. So I I'm like, OK, all right, chill, get it together, chill.

And I was like, so I really committed like Uber, committed like over, committed to this really long walk across the stage and then this really long look out into the audience as I was trying to figure out what the fuck I was going to do.

And the tension was like thick because it was clearly an acting choice and I was clearly had my faculties and then I knew no one who can come to your help at this point because there are a lot of people on stage during that trial.

No one can help you out. Not the judge. Not the witness. No one can help you.

No one. You're the one asking the questions. And yes. And I and I in the most succinct way I could think of. I was like. Let me backtrack for a moment. Corporal, Lieutenant. OK. OK, you did the right thing, and and and we got the road, we got back on the road very quickly and then when I turned upstage to go, no further questions, by the way, it was the most exhilarating, no further questions that have ever come out of an actor's mouth.

And I walked walked back to the defense table. And and these these actors eyes were like saucers. And no one was the wiser. I mean, literally no one knew other than the actors. The audience never knew. The critics never knew. You would have known. Thank God you were getting a cigarette. Wow.

Thank God. Indeed. The things that that happened on stage that I've had a play on Broadway, I had it for a year and a half until things shut down on March 13th, until all theaters shut down. And we'll be back again when New York is back again. But. The day after the shooting in Las Vegas and the giant, yes, the people killed in Las Vegas, that was a Friday night on Saturday night. At around 10, 30, which is about 10 minutes before our flight, before To Kill a Mockingbird comes down in Times Square.

A motorcycle backfired and everyone in Times Square, and that's a lot of people at ten thirty on a Saturday night started screaming and running. And if you run west from Times Square on either forty fourth or Fifth Street, the first safe place you're going to find is our theater, the Shubert Theater. That's going to be the first place you're going to run into. That's open. Hundreds of people started running into the lobby and banging on the doors to get into the orchestra.

They thought they were running away from a gunman. So everyone sitting in the orchestra starts to panic. And at this point, there's just one actress on stage, Celia and Bulgar, playing Scout. And she didn't know what was happening as the audience started screaming, she had every reason to believe that there was somebody in our theater with a gun or a knife and that they were about to jump on stage. She clears the stage. The curtain comes down somehow.

Somehow they got everything under control, but all I remember thinking is I'm sure that wasn't the first time a motorcycle backfired in Times Square. It's just the first time everyone assumed it was someone with a gun.

Yeah. Give the what happens on stage is. I remember I was still a huge Paul Newman fan, and the only real time I ever had any interaction with him was at the Williamstown Theater Festival and his wife, Joanne, was directing something.

And I was doing a play up there and I remember doing stuff there. Weren't you?

I was doing Chekhov with Christopher Walken. That's right. And and I remember with Christopher Walken and I got a couple of good ones.

I got a couple of good ones. I'm going to share all that because they're so good. They're so good.

But yeah, I should take over this interview. I want to talk to you. Yeah.

You should believe me. You wouldn't be that Alec Baldwin did it. Alec took this whole thing over, took the reins right from me. I was just, you know, yeah, I'm going to do that.

So Newman was like, I love that you're doing the theater because you'll always have it come back to and not enough people do it. And and it's that that's it's just you. It's just you up there and you never know what is going to happen. Do you know. So on a few good men, apparently I realized this during the run there.

It's there's a a couple that's famous for sitting in the royal box and having sex during the show. Do you know. But this. I I know I didn't know about that. I sure knew about the royal box and I thought that was cool. And just very quickly of your listeners, there are a couple of theaters in the West End in London that have the royal designation. The Royal Haymarket, where we were, is one of them. And I'm not honestly, I'm not exactly sure what that means, except that there is a royal box reserved for royalty.

And now you say it's also reserved so well so and it's in where they're situated is always perfectly in your sight line if you're if you're standing out a profile centre stage. And which would make sense, you'd give the queen the best seats in the House, so yes. It's always empty, but apparently you can if you know somebody or pay somebody, you can get it. Anyway, long story short, I looked off one one day and and there was a couple having sex, doing a very specific sex act.

And and then I were like, whatever. And then so at intermission, the stage manager went to them and said, you cannot do that. And so they just merely changed the sex act in the second part of the play. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah.

But apparently they're keeping it. They like to go to theaters. Another thing, Blakeway, do this, they want the actors to see them and they and it's known like if you're a West End veteran, you're like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

It's like, did you know that Judi Dench can you do about before you walked on stage that night?

I did know. I learned about it. Here's a tradition you should know about.

It's a market that that's exactly what it is. I did not know. Do you know that Judi Dench, whenever she's in the West End, has a tradition where she if she can leave the show she's starring in while it's running and runs across the street and does a walk on part on another show like that's her thing.

I didn't know that. No. Wasn't that crazy? I she's. It is genius, but I want to hear about you and Christopher Walken doing check at Williamstown.

OK, so. So. So, Chris, as you know, has a manner of speaking that is very enigmatic and that and he used to have a moment that I would come to the wings to watch every night, and I never knew why I liked it. It was just something about the way he said it. And it was basically in the play. There's the village is on fire and they are all sheltering in place in an attic.

And he's playing for Sheenan. He's sheltering in place with the family. And someone walks in and Chris Line is. How's the fire? And there's something about the way he said it that I found so compelling and could never put my finger on it until the day I picked up what I thought was my script. It was his and it was open to house the fire and he had crossed out the word fire in the script and above it written the word barbecue at I was like, that makes the other thing he he does, which is amazing, is and this would drive you maybe it wouldn't drive you berserk.

How would you feel? If you gave me that Big Sam seaborne speech and I took out all the punctuation. And memorized it in any way, he had to know that there was a line, I look check on you, I feel bad. So it's Anton Chekhov. The dialogue was. And Andromeda's important dramedies and the theme was, you know, they want to go to Moscow, that's where people are smart, you know, that's where people are worldly.

And one of the characters was like, well, actually, I don't believe in that. We know a lot of useless things as well.

So I remember this very vividly. The dialogue is written by Anton Chekhov. The Christopher Walken had to say was, well, there you have it, period. You know, a lot of useless things, period. Chris Walken would say, well. There you have it. You know, a lot of useless things.

And we'll be right back after this. Hello there, I'm Rory Scovel, I'm a comedian, I'm an actor, but most importantly, I'm a dad.

And I'll tell you what, as a father, it is my sworn duty to tell you about my new show with Team Coco called Dads, the podcast.

On each episode, me and my co-host, Ruthie Wyatt, are joined by a hilarious guest to talk about the mysteries of fatherhood and parenting, people like David Cross, Conan O'Brien, Sabrina Gelis and Roy Wood Jr..

Even if you're not a dad or a parent, I think you're really going to like this show. So please check us out. Find Dads the podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Don't miss it. Hey, I'm Christine, and I'm Caroline, and we're back with brand new episodes of Unladylike, the show that finds out what happens when women break the rules. This season, we're breaking the rules around sexting, Botox, even twerking, where you both think you are working it out.

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And we're kicking off the season with one of our unladylike Hall of Fame heroes, Samantha Bee, and really monologuing here today.

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Now, because of Walken and Alec Baldwin, you have hosted SNL a number of times.

Yes, yes, we know a lot of stories, but I'm curious, just walk us through the monologue, OK? Are writers pitching new stuff? Are you saying I'd like to talk about this? How's that working the monologue? First of all, every time I've done it, it's the very first thing. I ask about and every single time. The answer is the same, yes, we'll get to it. It is the absolute last thing anybody thinks about.

Or gives you the absolute dead last, you cannot get them to focus on it at all. That'll scare the hell out of you. Yes, yes. Yes, it does. We're going to reach like 60 percent of our judgment on how good a host you were based on your monologue, as unfair as that is 90 minutes ago.

But it makes perfect sense when you think about it, like from their perspective. That's. What, five percent of the show, if they want to make sure they have a show. Yeah.

And and and then I'm not I'm never I always feel like the monologues were written by the head writers and not the staff. And the staff is so competitive and everybody's trying to get their stuff on that. It just it kind of falls sort of through the cracks. And they feel and I think part of it is they're trying to get to know the host also.

I think the best way for them to get their stuff on to read something you like. Yes.

And they're great about that because, you know, the host does run the show really and truly. And they're great about about deferring to the host taste. But the three times. I did it the monologue well, I remember the time I hosted it when we were doing West Wing was was me giving a tour of the White House, including the room where they, quote, blow the president.

Right. Right. And you also because you did a church chat.

Right. Oh, yeah, well, that's. Yeah, so well, I mean, just like you come on saying, I'd really like to do a church chat. If there's an established character, recurring character, you do.

The one I remember with, but started my relationship with Mike Myers. I came on and he was like, do you want to do a Wayne's World or a Sprocket's?

And I was actually a Sprocket's guy more than Wayne's World guy, ironically.

And so we get Sprocket's as the greatest. I played a I think a Belgian choreographer who invented an international dance craze called the Trought, I remember you also, my friend, just perfect for Sprocket's.

I mean, come on to sort of perfect chiseled looking person.

Did you when you were doing Studio 60, did you did you get to sit back with Lauren and drink Amstell under the bleachers?

No, I didn't. I met Lorne Michaels once at a dinner that Scozzafava had at his house for some. Come on.

You've not met Lorne Michaels more than that? Yeah, no, I haven't.

And obviously, I'm a huge admirer. Yeah, it's. I'm not sure how many people know just how difficult doing that show is SNL, and to do it for 40 something years now and and keep it at this level is, I guess, unmatched in television.

You know, Lorne is the ghost that haunts every podcast. I do. I mean, Lorne comes up. I'm not kidding in almost every interview I do. Every single one. Because he's I mean, if you're even at all funny or interested in comedy, you love Lorne. And then if you know Lorne, he's the most quotable person who ever lived. So, in fact, Amy Poehler and I, when we were doing Parks and Rec, we were going to we wanted to do a fake Lorne Michaels Twitter account.

With some of his amazing troops and by the way, did you ever did you know that that they when they made Parks and Rec, the thinking behind it was they all love the West Wing so much that if the drama took place in the White House, where would the comedy take place? And they figured it would take place in the Parks and Rec department. Did you know that?

Well, that's incredibly flattering that the show was was on their mind at all when they were conceiving it. Conceiving of the show is fantastic.

And it's funny because you and I really I really would like to talk about Parks and Rec, but you were on two shows that are Valentines to public service.

Yeah. Now, I know it's weird, it's weird, it's yes, I feel great satisfaction in that, and also because I really think I'll put the West Wing up there with any drama and I'll put perks up there with any comedy, you know, and to be able to.

I agree. And I also think that there have been episodes of park scenes in parks that in that moment were the best drama on TV. And I think that there were very funny moments on the West Wing, but that Parks and Rec cast was another incredible cast. Yep. I don't know if you know that, but Nick Offerman.

Nick. Yes. He's on the West Wing. He's fluey that the wolf.

Right blooey the wolf. Yes. And I didn't know this, I think until last year that Anna Gasteyer was the Butterball hotline operator.

No. Yeah, she was.

I'm sure what happened was this, that the reason why I didn't know it was her was that we hadn't cast the part by the time we shot. We're shooting Martin's side of the phone call and we only ever hear of her. So it was probably in a day reading in the operator. And then somehow we cast an Agastya without my knowing about it. And if I'd known, I would have written an episode called The Butterball Hotline Operator. Yeah, part two.

But back to Parks and Rec. I want to know they do they come to you at the end or in the middle of the second season and say we're going to go in a whole new direction and this is what it's going to look like at how much of it was envisioned when they came.

Oh, you're this. You'll love this.

So being a veteran of it, don't don't tell me that Mike had like an outline and everything. No, no, no, is this is it's like it's like politics, you don't want to see how the sausage is made a lot of the times. And so I had just finished doing Jon Robin Baitz show. I know who you love, brothers and sisters. Yes, I do. But you love Robby. We love our Robby Bates.

And I wanted to do comedy and I love 30 Rock, love, love, love, 30 Rock love, Tina Love, Alec and I. And I was like, I want to be on 30 Rock. Is there any way I can be on 30 Rock? And the network is like, no. How about no, how about you're not going to be on that show and and then and then. But they were, but.

Would you ever consider going on Parks and Recreation? And which I was not that familiar with at that point, but I knew that people loved it. I knew it was like a cult really, really cult loyal fan base, but certainly not like a big hit. But like I knew like I knew I was supposed to like it. How about that? You know, shows, you know, you're supposed to like. Yeah, that was one of them.

And so I watch it. Obviously, I fell in love with it. Then they went to Mike and said, hey, is there a world in which. Rob Lowe comes on to Park Schirach, and Mike was like, what the fuck, what I mean. What? Because he wanted Adam Scott. Come on. And so there's this weird, like, shotgun marriage thing happening, but everybody loves everybody and nobody is against it, but it's kind of odd.

And so I, I meet with Mike and it's we have a great time. And Amy kind of just happens to drop by to basically make sure that I'm not a. Ax murderer, it's clear, and and so we make a deal for me to do six episodes, period six isn't. And if they like me at the end of six and I like them at the end of six, we'll do more. And I loved it from day one. And there came a time where I was playing.

My character had the flu and I was doing a scene where I was in the in the mirror and I ad libbed.

Stop pooping. You admit that, yes, that's sort of a wall of fame moment for Parks and Rec stop whoopings and adlib and amazing.

And that was the moment that Mike Shaw. Said, ask me to come back on the show full time, and I did, and we're happy to have done it. The rest of us are happy that you did it to obviously the very early turning point for the character was you're on the date with Rasheda and you explain why you're so optimistic. That you were born with this blood disease and it's like every day just feels like a miracle and it was a great, great role for her.

And so the audiences were she to kind of fall in love with you at the same time. They knew what they were doing. They really did, and it was, you know what, Aaron? It's like when you it's like all the shows that people, like come from come from a source in a real strong point of view.

Make sure on on percs you and everything you do. And it's you feel it, you know, when there's a cook, a chef in the kitchen, you know.

Yeah. And the gift that Mike has and that Greg Daniels has to it's so hard to be hip and have heart at the same time, a TV show. And that's what Parks and Rec did. And there is a whole new group of people that my daughter is 19, she and her friends, they're obsessed with Parks and Rec like they think it's on now. They don't they don't think they're watching the show from a few years ago. They think it's on now.

They think the West Wing is on now. And it's this new show that they're really into. They're not certain how it is drawn.

Both what I love is and I wonder if they I've been on TV and done movies a long time, but I've never had a catchphrase. Right. And that's not really what you Traficon. You're not like a big catch phrase guy.

So of course I have any on the West and Birkins yours or was that written in the script and period. Perkins' period.

And Perkin's was me. That was that. That was. That was me because it came out of my Tom Cruise impersonation. I was I was impersonating Tom Cruise to make in the first meeting. I don't know why I love Tom. I'm obsessed. As you know, he's he's the last real movie star.

Yeah, but, you know, you can't you see can't you see Tom doing that? Think about Tom going Aaron Sorkin. Right. So that's where that came from and then literally the word literally, Mike, when I when I wrapped the show, gave me his framed original notes from meeting with me from that first meeting. And in it he had written, he says literally all the time. So that's where that came from. And yes, two days ago, I was surfing and I got out of the water and there were these four had to been no more than 14 years old boys, a gaggle of them.

And they started shaking when they saw me. And they were like Chris Trager, I said, and I went literally. And they, like, lost their minds.

And it was so fun. I'll bet they did. That's fantastic.

Now, before we go, I need to hear about the trial of Chicago seven.

I need I'll tell you quickly, just because the reason I have to go is to get on a marketing call with Netflix about the trial of the Chicago seven, which is my sophomore directorial effort. I wrote it to the true story of this terrible riot that broke out in Chicago at the Democratic National Convention as confrontation between protesters and police. The National Guard, which is now starting to look too familiar on the news, and then this insane conspiracy trial that followed up the leaders of the protest.

And it is Mark Rylance, the Sacha Baron Cohen, Eddie Redmayne, Jeremy Strong. Frank Langella, Joseph Gordon Levitt, Michael Keaton. It's a big cast and Erin, you got to get better actors next time.

Jesus Christ. I know I'm having bad luck with that because she had leave writer's block with actors and including and especially you, my friend. And I owe you a great deal. And you're going to be very proud of the West Wing. Get out the vote special. You really are.

And by the way, I think we're going to drop this podcast the week that the West Wing is out. So if you're if you're listening to this right now, I think I think it's on HBO, Max, starting today on HBO starting October 15th.

Yep. October 15th. And I want to do part two with you at some point because I want you to I want to hear about your version of directing. I really do. I want to hear. I want to hear. We have we have way more. I didn't even get to talk to you about Moneyball. I didn't get to talk to you about winning your Oscar. I didn't get to talk to you about your Steve Jobs commencement speech.

Oh, well, I would love to talk to you about any of this. All right, so any time you want. OK, OK, because, I mean, in all seriousness, those are all those are every one of those subjects or podcasts worthy. We've got to do part two. Are you down?

I am down for part two. All right. Hand me and not even pencil.

All right. I got the pen. All right. Thank you for being here. Appreciate your love.

You, brother. Thanks so much, Rob. Take it easy.

Well, I just did my little bit to help the trail of the Chicago Seven. I let Erin out of a talk that could have gone on for many, many more hours so he can go work on the ad campaign.

So when you see the ad campaign, know that I had something to do with it because there's so much more to talk about with him. I find him deeply, deeply fascinating. And he is a character himself, as you now know, having listened to him for for this amount of time and one of one of the nicest men ever. So part two will happen at some point. My guess it will be when he's nominated for an Oscar. I'm just saying this is one of the West Wing characters always said just Sam, I think it's in the offing for him and we will reconvene then.

But in the meantime, I will see you all next week on literally with Roblan. You have been listening to literally with Rob Lowe. Produced and engineered by me, Devon Tory, Brian Executive produced by Rob Lowe for low profile Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Stitcher. The supervising producer is Aaron Blair's talent producer, Jennifer Sanders. Please write and review the show on Apple podcast and remember to subscribe on Apple podcast, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcast.

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