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Everyone knows the saying, What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. But for people who suffer from painful trauma, it takes a lot of work to get to that point. Trauma, especially when it's experienced at a young age, plays a major role in shaping who we are, what we do, and why we do it. Some people are able to overcome that trauma and use their painful experiences to become a better, stronger person. But for others, it can have the opposite effect. No matter what we do to try to escape it, our personal traumas stay with us forever, for better or for worse. The human mind is fascinating. It controls how we think, how we feel, how we love, and how we hate. Sometimes the mind drives us to do something truly unspeakable. When that happens, people wonder, how could someone do such a Well, on this show, that's what we're going to try and answer. This is Mind of a Serial Killer, a crime house original. Every Monday, we'll be taking deep dives into the minds of history's most notorious serial killers and violent offenders. At Crimehouse, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making this possible.

Please support us by rating, reviewing, and following Mind of a Serial Killer wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly matters. And for ad-free and early access to Mind of a Serial Killer, plus exciting bonus content, subscribe to Crimehouse Plus on Apple Podcasts. Subscribe now for instant access to all four episodes of our limited series on Jeffrey Daumer. I'm Vanessa Richardson, and I'm a self-professed true crime fanatic. I've covered serial killers and other violent crimes for years, but it's It's not the gory details or grizzly violence that draws me into these stories. It's the people. We're doing this show not to explore what they did, but why. And thankfully, I have an expert by my side to help.

I'm Dr. Tristan Ingles. I'm a licensed clinical forensic psychologist, and my fascination, if you want to call it that, with true crime, actually runs in my family. My grandfather was the chief microanalyst of the Chicago Crime Lab. He was also a Chicago police sergeant, and he's the co-inventor of the Vittulo Evidence Collection Kit, which we widely know as a rape kit. I was always inspired by his work, and because of that, I dedicated my life and my career to understand violent serial and sexual offenders in order to help lower the risk of further crimes, which we know as recidivism. And as Vanessa takes you through our subject's stories, I'll be here helping her deep dive into these killers' minds as we try to understand how someone could do such horrible things.

So today we're going to start with the first of four episodes on Jeffrey Daumer, perhaps the world's most famous serial killer who was responsible for murdering at least 17 people in Wisconsin and Ohio from 1978 to 1991. By now, you probably know the broad strokes of his story: death, dismemberment, sexual assault, cannibalism. It's safe to say he was probably one of the worst people to ever live, and that's putting it lightly.

And in these episodes, we'll be going over all of that. But Vanessa and I will be doing something that very few people have tried before, and that's to understand his mind.

In today's episode, we'll be exploring Jeffrey Daumer's early life and asking the question, what makes a serial killer? Like so many of us, Jeffrey Daumer's story really began with his parents. Before we get to know him, we have to understand who they were, their hopes, their dreams, how they saw the world, and how that affected their son. Because Jeffrey Daumer's parents played a huge role in his early life. From what I can tell, they were not suited for parenthood. Does upbringing have an outsized effect on shaping who a person becomes? Yes.

The nature versus nurture debate has been in existence forever, and it will continue to do so because when it comes to psychology, there's so many variables to consider. For example, milestones could be met or not met based on trauma, not as of developmental delays. But one thing to really consider, too, is parenting styles. The parenting style really does have an effect on a child's growth and how they interact inter-personally later in life. Our care Ourgivers are the ones that teach us how to self-soothe, how to value ourselves. And of course, if we don't know how to self-soothe or value ourselves, how do we know how to do that with others? So the attachment style and the parenting style also are a very significant factor when it comes to interparental conflict and a child's development.

Jeffrey's parents were married on August 22nd, 1959, when they were both 23. His dad, Lionel, was studying to get a master's degree in chemistry and put his young career ahead of everything, including his new wife. That did not sit well with Jeffrey's mom, Joyce. When she was a child, Joyce was neglected by her alcoholic father her. As an adult, she refused to experience those same feelings again. So anytime she thought Lionel wasn't paying enough attention to her, which was pretty much always, Joyce wasn't afraid to tell him. As you might imagine, this combination didn't exactly lend itself to marital bliss. Lionel and Joyce were at each other's throats pretty much from the moment they were married, but that didn't keep them from starting a family. Within just a few days of being married, Joyce was pregnant. Nine months later, on May 21, 1960, Jeffrey Daumer was born. For a while, Jeffrey's birth papered over a of Lionel and Joyce's problems, but it wouldn't last. Before too long, they were fighting all the time again. Lionel threw himself into his studies, and Joyce's emotional outburst got even more intense. When Jeffrey was two, they had to pick up their lives and move from Milwaukee to Ames, Iowa, so Lionel could pursue a PhD in chemistry at Iowa State University.

This was their second move since Jeffrey was born. Joyce had trouble adjusting to all the change, which led to even more tension at home. But little Jeffrey seemed to handle it all right. As a baby and toddler, he seemed, for a lack of a better word, normal. He hit all his milestones and was, by all accounts, a happy little kid. But inside, was there something going on below the surface? Was his parents' troubled relationship affecting him more than it seemed?

It definitely was. But I do want to hit back on the milestones comment and discuss what it is. When we're looking at milestones, we're looking at if a child is crawling on time, walking on time, talking on time, able to sit upright, and engaging with their peers. If they do not meet those milestones, one or two, not necessarily all, we look into whether or not there is a developmental disorder there, an organic one in nature, such as cerebral palsy or autism spectrum disorder. However, autism is a spectrum, and some aspects of autism show up later in life. I just want to make that clear. But we're also looking if there was any prenatal injury. We know that Joyce has a family history of alcoholism. She also struggled with her own substance abuse. Do we know if she used while she was pregnant with Jeffrey? That's what milestones help us with.

That's so fascinating. All of those things go into play. So he was hitting all his milestones, but he was in that environment that was so toxic.

Right. And that says a lot more about trauma in the effects of interparental conflict on a child. A lot of research has been done about interparental conflict over the years, a lot. Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot of longitudinal studies on this, but what we do know and what we have seen is that children who have prolonged exposure to interparental conflict in the home are at a greater risk of developing anger issues, depression, anxiety, and stress.

That absolutely makes sense. So whatever impact Jeffrey's parents' fighting had on him as a kid, he seemed to find comfort in animals. When he was only 18 months old, he had a pet fish and a turtle. And after they moved to Iowa, Jeffrey liked to feed a squirrel that came to his windowsill. He named him Jiffy. According to Joyce, he was really kind and gentle with all these animals. But at the same time, he also had a strange fascination with them that wasn't like what most animal-loving kids develop. At some point in 1964, when Jeffrey was four years old, he found some old animal bones his father had cleared out from the crawl space under their house. Right away, he was drawn to them. He called them fiddlesticks. Of course, plenty of kids think bones and skeletons are cool, but Jeffrey's interests seem to border on obsession. Now, whenever he played with one of his many pets, he liked to hold them and feel their bones. In what may be the first sign of the monster he would someday become, Jeffrey liked to wonder if all these animals and their fiddlesticks all looked the same on the inside.

Around that same time, Jeffrey had a traumatic experience with his own internal anatomy. When he was When he was four years old, he needed a double hernia operation on his testicles. The experience would stay with him for life. Much later on, after Jeffrey's murder spree had ended and he was behind bars, he told psychologist Dr. Judith Becker, that when he woke up from the operation, he was in so much pain that he thought his genitals had been removed. It definitely seems like the thing that could impact the trajectory of his life. I'm curious about his fascination with animals and their anatomies as well. Isn't it a bit of a running theme when it comes to serial killers and animal cruelty?

It's definitely a pattern that we've seen with serial killers, but I also don't want to further support the myth all children who have abused an animal become a serial killer because it's actually quite normal in some cases where 3 to 44% of children have abused an animal at some point. It's mostly because they're limit testing. They don't know their boundaries. Usually, once they learn the extent of the harm that it can cause, they correct that behavior.

That's fascinating. The psychological impact of his surgery, how does that play into Jeffrey's psychology? That hernia operation when he was so young, is that powerful enough to mentally harm someone like Jeffrey Daumer so much that it could explain how he could become such a monster?

I don't think the surgery itself is something that would cause Daumer to become a monster because so many children have had to undergo a surgery at some point in their life, and they did not grow up to become anything like Domer. So I don't think it's the surgery itself. However, did Daumer know, ahead of time, what was going to happen. He didn't exactly have the most comforting, nurturing parents. Did they tell him what to expect? Did they have a conversation? Did he know that he'd be spending the night in a hospital? Can you imagine being his age?

The communication there does not seem like it was there at all.

If you're waking up in a hospital and you don't know that you're spending the time there and you feel abandoned, scared, you're out of your comfort zone, that can definitely have a psychological impact.

That makes a a lot of sense. Through all of this, and when Jeffrey finally did get back home, things were getting even worse. By 1966, so this would be when Jeffrey was about six years old, his mom, Joyce, was in really bad shape. Emotionally, she was a wreck and was taking liberal doses of anti-anxiety meds called secunal and equanil. She was so careless with them that she almost overdosed at one point. Most of the time, she was just in this depressed, out of days. And whenever she was fully lucid, she was on a razor's edge. On the rare occasions when Jeff's dad, Lionel, was home, the two parents fought all the time. It wasn't exactly a healthy environment to raise a young child, as we've covered, and yet they were determined to try. Of course, this is back in the 1960s, and opinions on divorce were not the same as they are today. So most couples in the Domer's situation were probably trying to stick it out, too. But Lionel and Joyce weren't just trying to stay together for Jeffrey's sake. They were doubling down on their marriage because around this time, they made a conscious effort to try for a second child.

Whatever Jeffrey may have been feeling on the inside, on the outside, he seemed thrilled to be getting a little sibling for maybe the first time ever. He seemed to have a genuine connection with another person. He would hold his head on Joyce's stomach and even put his hand on it so the baby would know he was there. Maybe Jeffrey was so excited because he knew deep down that he wouldn't be alone in the storm that was the Daumer household anymore. He was desperate to have a little brother to play with. And on December 18, 1966, Jeffrey got his wish when Joyce gave birth to a baby boy. He even had the honor of choosing the name David. And for a while, everything honestly seemed to be going great. Lionel finally finished his school and got a job as a chemist with a company in Ohio. After a couple of years of bouncing between rental houses, Lionel and Joyce finally bought the house of their dreams. In a small Ohio town called Bath. After living in six different houses since they were married, it seemed like the family was finally settled. The new house was a big ranch-style home, located on nearly two acres of secluded wooded land.

Joyce got the peace and quiet she'd been yearning for, and Jeffrey had his very own private forest to explore. He even started making friends with some of the local boys, going out to play with them in the woods and sitting with them at school. It seemed like the Daumer family's troubles were behind them. But nothing lasts forever. Sometime around 1970, so again, when Jeffrey was about 10 years old, Joyce's health hit the proverbial wall. She spent most of the day in bed, and by this point was taking up to eight anti-anxiety pills per day on top of other medication like laxatives and sleeping pills. Eventually, it got so bad that she had to go to the hospital, where she spent a month in the psychiatric ward. It was too much for young Jeffrey to handle. For his entire life, his mother's mental health had been a dark storm, with only brief moments of sunlight. He'd never seen her truly truly happy. For that, he may have blamed himself. At least that's what Brian Masters, the author of The Shrine of Jeffrey Daumer, believes.

I think also with interparental conflict, a lot of times the conflict is regarding how to parent, the child. And so from a child's perspective, they're looking at it as if they're the cause of the problem. They're not able to really see that the problem exists beyond them. And because there probably was a a lot of projection of blame happening in the household as to why Joyce was going through all of these struggles. It sounds like she was abusing her medication, and those classification of medications are highly addictive, and they could be deadly if they're dependent on it and withdraw without detox. There's a lot going on there that I think as a child seeing.

Yeah. I mean, what effect does that have on a child to see your mom who has struggled your entire life to go to the hospital and you think it's because of you. It's hard not to see that as a child unless you have parents who are nurturing, who are authoritative.

When they sit you down, they're warm, they tell you, Hey, we're arguing about this, but you are not to blame. That doesn't happen in the Daumer household.

Not at all. There's no communication there at all. What long-term psychological effects do you think that has on a child who believes that they are the ones responsible for their parents' difficulties, especially in this case, Jeffrey Daumer's parents being so volatile?

I think in Jeffrey Daumer's case, specifically, there's a lot of insecure attachment happening, a lot of broken attachments with his mother being in and out of psychiatric facilities or hospitals. I think that alone can create a fear of rejection, a fear of abandonment, that when Jeffrey becomes an adult will probably be the forefront of all of his interpersonal connections, this fear of rejection and abandonment.

Expand on that a little bit. What would that mean for Jeffrey as an adult?

Well, since Jeffrey was constantly seeking and needing nurtureance in his home, but was not receiving it from his parents, and instead was often the center of their conflict. As an adult, Jeffrey is going to be very afraid of rejection and abandonment. He's going to be a lot needier in his personal relationships because he's still seeking that need of nurture that he did not get. But with Jeffrey, what he's learned is that any relationship comes with the potential of abandonment and rejection. I think that plays out not only in his home growing up, but also with his peers. And the rejection of your peers on top of the rejection from your parents really leads to some adverse interpersonal patterns when you're an adult.

Absolutely. That's all he's seen. So obviously, even though Joyce's struggles definitely weren't Jeffrey's fault, he may have clearly believed they were, but at least immediately, he didn't lash out or lose control. Instead, he retreated into himself, cutting himself off from the world. He felt like the less he interacted with the world, the fewer problems he'd caused, which speaks to exactly what you just said, Dr. Engels. Jeffrey became completely detached, refusing to truly engage with anyone or anything around him. He was unmoored from society, with nobody to bring him back into it. From that point on, any light or life Jeffrey Daumer showed was completely and utterly extinguished. Amid all the problems going on at home, surprisingly, Lionel Daumer noticed that Jeffrey was even more distant than usual. Desperate to get his now adolescent son more active, Lionel signed Jeffrey up for all sorts of activities. He taught him how to play tennis, signed him up for music lessons, and had him join the Boy Scouts. None of it took. Jeffrey remained as disconnected as ever. Dead animals and their insides seemed to be the only thing that held his interest. One night after a family chicken dinner, Jeffrey asked Lionel what would happen if they put the bones in bleach.

It was definitely an odd request, but at this point, Lionel was just happy that Jeffrey was showing an interest in something. So he obliged his son, and they put the bones in a pan full of bleach. It was the father-son bonding moment that was all too rare in the Daumer household, and maybe a sign that Jeffrey could emerge from his shell. Even though Jeffrey was withdrawn and shy, he did have a small social circle. There were the boys he ate lunch with at school, and he was friends with a neighborhood boy named David. They were the kinds of friendships you'd expect most boys his age to have. Also around this time, Jeffrey started to become more aware of his sexuality and that he was gay. His first notable romantic encounter happened when Jeffrey was 13, with another neighborhood boy named Eric, who was 10. The two of them frequently played together and liked to hike and fish. There was a little tree house they would go to sometimes, and one day Eric suggested they take their clothes off and kiss. This happened a handful of times until it eventually tapered off and the boys went their separate ways.

For Jeffrey, this should have been a huge moment in his life, a first childhood crush, the thrill of emerging sexuality, maybe some uncertainty and confusion. It was definitely a big moment, but not in the way most people would experience it. For Jeffrey, there was zero attachment to Eric, no grade school crush. His only concern was the other boy's body, and not in a romantic or even lustful way. It was a cold, detached interest, just like his fascination with the bodies of animals. What's going on in someone's head when they detach from someone like that?

I think in Jeffrey's case, he's learned that detaching from his emotions, especially with people, is the safest way to avoid any feelings of rejection or abandonment. And given that this was a sexual encounter between him and another boy to a degree, he might have been afraid that Eric had some second thoughts about what happened, may tell other people, or may abandon or reject him out of fear because of what happened between them, maybe some regret.

Could it also have something to do with the lack of affection or attachment that he received from his parents?

That's absolutely a lot to do with it.

What about his sexuality, too? A fear and uncertainty there about his feelings for another boy, especially coming from a religious household.

I think with Jeffrey, he had a lot of things going on that he probably was confused about. He had a lot of interests that other people didn't have interest in. He had interests that people would question, and now he's having a sexual interest that he knows would not be widely accepted at that time. I think detaching from anything with real emotion was his survival.

It seems like the safer place to go. So after these tree house encounters with Eric, nothing really changed for Jeffrey in a social or romantic way. He was Just as emotionally cut off from the world as ever. But around the time he turned 14, a new dangerous influence entered his life, alcohol. When he got to high school, Jeffrey started drinking a lot. By his sophomore year, it was clear he had a problem. One classmate remembered him showing up to class first thing in the morning with a styrofoam cup filled to the brim with scotch. He also started smoking pot and would usually combine the drugs and alcohol until he was completely numb to the world. Jeffrey's substance abuse also coincided with a change in his outward behavior. Until this point, he'd been quiet and shy, reluctant to draw any attention to himself. But high school Jeffrey was a complete 180. It seemed like everything he did was an attempt to get attention. He'd pretend to have seizures or to trip and fall or fake like he was throwing up. In class, he'd randomly bleat like a sheep. It seemed like all he wanted was to be a nuisance.

Does this seem like a typical class clown behavior, or is there something more to this?

There's definitely something more to this, especially with the amount of alcohol he's been drinking. Anybody He at the age of 14 who is drinking as much as he is and showing up to school under the influence is drinking away feelings. We already know that Jeffrey does not like to feel feelings. He wants to remain detached attached. And substance use is another way of doing that. Now, with regard to his behavior in school, he doesn't get a lot of attention at home. And sometimes people who don't get attention will do things to get any type of attention, including negative attention. And part of this is also due to disinhibition from alcohol.

Absolutely. So he's numbing himself and he wants the attention that's all very clear, seeing how his household feels.

It's a constant inner turmoil for him, the constant conflict. He wants nurture, but also he doesn't want to feel.

So whatever was driving this behavior, it doesn't seem like anybody tried particularly hard to stop it. Jeffrey's parents, Lionel and Joyce, were busy with their own problems, as we know, and were either too distracted or just not equipped to help. There wasn't even the illusion of civility between Jeffrey's parents anymore. The only time they talked was to hurl insults at each other. Any energy they had for parenthood was saved for his little brother, David. They mostly left Jeffrey to his own devices, and nobody at his school did anything to intervene either. Somehow, nobody noticed the excessive drinking and drug use. Maybe that's because Jeffrey managed decent enough grades and, aside from his odd behavior, generally stayed out of trouble. Jeffrey didn't exactly have the self-motivation to turn his life around on his own. At school, the only subject he was interested in was biology, specifically dissecting animals. In fact, Jeffrey was so interested in dissection that he would conduct his own experiments in his tree house in the woods, pulling apart dead animals he found in the forest or on the side of the road. But just like when he was a little kid, Jeffrey never hurt the animals himself.

In fact, he had an aversion to dissecting any animal he had personally interacted with when it was alive. At one point, a neighbor's dog got hit by a car, but Jeffrey didn't show any interest in experimenting on it. It seems like maybe he couldn't bear to acknowledge that the bodies he was so obsessed with once belonged to a living, breathing creature.

The detachment is showing itself again in the animals that he's choosing to dissect. For example, he's picking up roadkill and he's taking that home, but he's leaving the animals that belong to neighbors alone. I think when it comes to domestic animals like dogs, there's an unconditional love that owners of dogs will get. I think that's something that Jeffrey respects because he's never had it.

Because he had that connection to that animal before it died, he didn't want to touch it. That same mindset was reflected in another growing obsession, pornography. Jeffrey spent hours on end looking through porn magazines, even more than the usual teenage boy. He was particularly fixated on the model's muscled torse and chest, and it wasn't even pure physical lust in the common sense. He just seemed obsessed with the thing itself. Is there any correlation between between his obsession with these animals and his porn habits? What, if anything, from his life up to this point, might inform these behaviors?

I think it does have a correlation with his porn habits because he's getting an arousal from something or someone he has no connection to, whether emotionally, physically, any connection. It's an easy way for him to remain detached and without the risk of being rejected.

Now, it didn't take long for Jeffrey's sexual desires to be translated from porn magazines to the real world. When he was around 16, he started noticing a well-built male jogger that would pass by their house almost every day. Jeffrey would spend hours alone in his room, fantasizing about what it would be like to explore this mysterious jogger's body. But he didn't have the first clue on how to approach this guy. He didn't have the social ability to stand by the road and strike up a conversation with him or to find some way to contrive a meeting. And besides, that's not what he wanted. Jeffrey had zero interest in actually getting to know him. No, all he cared about was the jogger's physical body. Again, mind you, not from a lustful teenage boy perspective. He wanted to possess it, to own it, be able to do whatever he wanted to it, and not worry about being rejected or turned away, which is what we've been discussing. So while Jeffrey hold himself up in his room, obsessing over this jogger, wheels started turning in his head. From his perspective, the only way to turn his fantasy into reality was to subdue this man by force, knock him unconscious so he was powerless to resist, while Jeffrey explored his body.

And one day, when Jeffrey's parents weren't home, he decided to act on it. A few minutes before the jogger usually passed by the house, Jeffrey grabbed a baseball bat from the closet, headed outside, and hid in a ditch by the side of the road. Then, he waited. In a serendipitous twist of fate, the jogger never passed by Jeffrey's house that afternoon. After When he was waiting outside for a while, Jeffrey decided to head back in and call it a day. After that, he never tried to attack the jogger again. We don't know if maybe for some reason the jogger changed routes, or maybe Jeffrey lost his nerve, or maybe he decided it just wasn't worth it. But whatever the reason is, it seemed like the moment had passed, for the time being, at least. But was there a danger that he might try again?

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that he wanted to possess possess him because possessing him means there's no rejection. The fact that this jogger didn't come by when he was waiting for him could have symbolized to Jeffrey a form of rejection. That let down in Jeffrey's case is going to absolutely build up. I think he will obsess about it and more than likely wanting to act on it compulsively.

I had never thought of it as a rejection, that the jogger never showed up. It was like a lucky, a streak of luck for the jogger, but that's absolutely a rejection.

But in Jeffrey's psychology, it is. It's a form of rejection. He was waiting. The buildup, like you said, he was prepared. He had timed it. He'd been watching him. He had probably been dreaming about it, really fantasizing about that moment, only for the jogger to not come by that day is a form of rejection in Jeffrey's eyes.

Definitely. Considering everything that's happened up to him to this point, does this seem like a point of no return for Jeffrey Daumer, or is there a chance with the right intervention, he could have gotten back on track at this point in his life?

It's really hard to say, but I would think that given all that we know up until this point, there really is no turning back, not without any real serious intervention. But as you mentioned, he was abusing alcohol, he was abusing drugs, his behavioral patterns were escalating in school, and yet his parents didn't even acknowledge it.

As you mentioned, Dr. Angles, he basically had zero support at home at this point. As bad as things had gotten between Lionel and Joyce when Jeffrey was a little kid, they were even worse now. But even though this was clearly a failed marriage, the Dommers weren't ready to call it quits just yet. In 1977, around the same time Jeffrey attempted to attack the jogger, Lionel and Joyce gave marriage counseling a shot, although any progress they made, if any, was quickly derailed. In September of that year, Joyce Joyce's father died. She went out of state for the funeral, and while she was away, found comfort in the arms of another man. It doesn't seem like she tried very hard to keep the affair a secret. Shortly after she got back, Lionel and Joyce finally decided to file for divorce. When it came to Jeffrey and his brother, Joyce and Lionel weren't making the process easy on them. Each one tried to turn the boys against the other, and the environment at home was so toxic that Lionel finally moved into a nearby motel. But that didn't help Joyce's mental state. She was still suffering from severe anxiety, and the judge, overseeing their divorce case, ordered her to undergo a psychological evaluation.

According to the psychologist who talked to her, she was indeed suffering from very severe emotional problems. By this point, neither Lionel nor Joyce was exactly fit to be a good parent. They fought tooth and nail over custody, maybe more from a desire to hurt the other person than from truly believing they were better suited to take care of their children, or at least take care of David. Jeffrey's parents didn't seem to care who would have primary custody over him. After all, he was almost 18 by now and was on the verge of graduating from high school. Legally, it wasn't really an issue, but emotionally, it couldn't have been easy to feel so unwanted, even for someone as detached from the world as Jeffrey This was a terrible situation.

And by now, I've been able to identify a series of rejections over time, at least perceived by Jeffrey, starting with feelings of abandonment emotionally from his parents, Particularly his mother, her hospitalization, her infidelity, having a younger brother taking the attention away from him when he had very little to begin with. And now this. This had had to have been a very big pivotal point for him, a turning point.

This sounds like the nail in the emotional coffin for Jeffrey. What does this do to him at this point?

At this point, I think Jeffrey has never felt valued by his parents. Therefore, he's not learning really how to value another person. He's on the verge of being 18, but his parents are not putting him in the foresight of their battle, and they're not at all concerned about what's going to happen to him. We know that just because you're 18 doesn't mean you're capable of being on your own yet without some assistance, without some support. They're essentially abandoning him in all the possible ways that one could. I think at this point for Jeffrey, things are just going to get worse. He doesn't value himself. No one's valued him, and he's not going to continue to value himself or anyone else.

However Jeffrey felt about his parents essentially abandoning him, he wasn't exactly sharing it with anyone. He really didn't have any friends to speak of, and he and his brother weren't close given their seven-year age gap. It's a very lonely place to be. Instead, Jeffrey did everything he could to numb himself even more. His drinking spiraled out of control to the point where a teacher found him drinking a twelve-pack of beer alone outside his school. Left to his own devices, Jeffrey's mind returned over and over again to that jogger and how his plan to attack him had failed so utterly. He replayed the scenario over and over and over again in his mind, imagining what would have happened if the jogger had come by the house that day. He was completely enveloped in this fantasy world with nobody to talk to, nobody to tell him the thoughts he was experiencing were dangerous. With his parents' divorce imminent, Jeffrey was coming up on two major milestones in his life. In May 1978, he graduated from high school, and that same month, he turned 18, officially becoming an adult. By this point, Jeffrey pretty much had the house to himself.

Once the school year was done, Joyce spent most of her time taking Jeffrey's little brother David with her to visit family in Wisconsin, and Lionel didn't come by the house much to check up on Jeffrey. In terms of future plans, Jeffrey had managed decent enough grades to enroll at Ohio State University in the fall. But until then, he was free to spin his wheels at home, drinking, smoking, and fantasizing to his heart's content. This seems like a very dangerous moment to me.

I would be very inclined to agree with you, Vanessa. We were talking earlier about parenting styles, and right now it seems like the parenting style I am seeing is more of a permissive one, where there are no rules and there are No regulations, there's no regulations. There's no boundaries. There's no sense of security. He's, like you said, free to his own devices, living on his own in a home, free to do whatever he wants without anybody regulating that behavior. We already know he struggles with self-regulation. So this is definitely a dangerous moment, Vanessa.

Yes, it's like a cauldron with all the wrong ingredients.

Exactly.

So for weeks on end, Jeffrey had endless time to think about that jogger, what wanted to do to him. When Jeffrey had school to worry about and parents around the house, there were enough distractions and excuses for him not to try something like that again. But now, with nobody and nothing to stop him, he became obsessed with possessing a body of his own. And now he was ready to try again. So on June 18, 1978, Jeffrey Daumer got into his car and went for a drive. Maybe Maybe he was looking for that jogger again. Maybe he was just trying to clear his head. Whatever his reason was, he eventually passed by a young man about his age walking down the side of the road. Immediately, Jeff must have been reminded of the jogger. This guy was in good shape and had taken off his shirt in the summer heat. He had his thumb out trying to hitch a ride. Jeffrey was all too happy to oblige him. He pulled over next to him and asked where he was going. The hitchhiker whose name was Stephen Hicks, said he was trying to get a ride to a concert a few miles away.

Jeffrey said he was happy to take him, but asked the guy if he'd want to come over and have a few beers with him first. We don't know what was going through Stephen's mind here. But he'd probably been hitchhiking for a while and was just happy anyone would give him a ride. And if he got a few beers in him before the concert, that was a bonus. So he said yes to Jeffrey's offer. Back at his house, Jeffrey cracked open a couple beers and they got to talking. A few drinks in, maybe sensing Jeffrey had an ulterior motive, Steven mentioned he was planning to visit his girlfriend later. As the sky got dark, he said it was time for him to get going. Jeffrey nodded and said he'd be right back, then went over to another room where he kept some workout equipment. Then he picked up a barbell and went back to where he and Steven were sitting. He desperately wanted Steven to stay, and he was willing to do whatever it took to make sure he never left that house. Thanks so much for listening. Join us next time as we discuss Jeffrey Dommer's first murder and the subsequent fallout.

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And for ad-free and early access to Mind of a Serial Serial Killer, plus exciting bonus content, subscribe to Crimehouse Plus on Apple Podcasts. Subscribe now for instant access to all four episodes of our limited series on Jeffrey Daumer. Mind of a Serial Killer, a crimehouse original powered by Pave Studios, is executive-produced by Max Cutler. This episode of Mind of a Serial Killer was produced and directed by Ron Shapiro, written and developed by Alex Benadon, fact-checked by Claire by Claire Cronin, and included production assistance from Sarah Carroll, Paul Libeskind, and Kristin Acevedo. Mind of a Serial Killer is hosted by Vanessa Richardson and Dr. Tristan Engels.