Wondery subscribers can listen to morbid early and ad free. Join wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

I'm Dan Tabirsky. In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast. What's the answer? And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head? Hysterical, a new podcast from Wondery and Pineapple street studios. Follow hysterical on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. I am Ash. And this is morbid.

I'm just a fuckboy in these intros these days. Just a little fuck Boyd.

Little tiny fuck. Boy, oh, boy.

Oh, brother.

Um, what's. What's going on? What's going on?

I had a calzone with Milky Way in it.

For lunch, dessert.

For lunch, dessert.

It was delightful.

Yeah, it was.

You know what? It was delightful. And what was also delightful is that although we've been having some, like, weird vibes, we've talked to you guys about it a little bit.

Yeah.

Like the doppelganger situation.

The tv falling on my head, slow.

Motion falling on my head.

Yeah. Just my stumacher moment.

Your stumacher moment.

My casual brain damage.

It's felt a little off, and we've all felt it, and we've all just kind of been like, ooh. Like, ew, what is this? I don't like it. And so we were like, all right, I'm gonna clean this morning. I'm gonna vacuum. I'm gonna make sure everything's decluttered. Maybe that's part of it. But then Mikey was like, wait a second. Our gal, Rachel Stavis. Rachel, who is, like, this amazing, out of this world exorcist.

We had her on.

You were on. She's amazing. Go listen to that episode if you haven't. Cause she's delightful. She heard that we were, like, having some weird energy and weird vibes, and we kind of talked to her about it a little bit, and she sent us a lovely little care package. Yeah. Of items that will help us kind of, like, cleanse the space and, like, make the energy a little better. So Mikey lit some incense and just was like, you know what? Let's get Rachel vibes in here.

Yeah.

I'm not kidding you. Something happened. No, it's so true. The energy in this room is different, and I'm usually pretty skeptical about some of this stuff. Like, I'll end up being like, oh, I don't know. Like, maybe it's just. I'll say, emo, I'm not kidding you. It feels like a totally different room.

Cause I was not here this morning when you guys did that. And then when I walked in, I was like, wait a second.

You're like, what's different?

Feels light as fuck in here.

Yeah. Like, Mikey was like. It feels like. It feels still.

Yeah, it does feel still. Whereas before, it felt very racing.

It felt staticky. Yeah. Like, everything was like. It felt like snow on a tv screen. Like that. It was, like, irritating all the time. And I felt like it was like something just didn't feel right. So we just need to say, like, Rachel Stavis Mandev. I'm telling you, she knows her shit.

She's so fucking cool. Follow her on TikTok.

Yeah. Follow her and all the things.

Yeah.

But she's magical and she did something. So. Thanks, Rachel.

Thank you, Rachel.

Fucking pal.

Thanks a lot, Rachel.

I'm telling mom. I'll tell everybody. We're telling everybody. Telling everybody. So, speaking of, you know, british accents, kind of. I I'm just kidding.Oh. You know, again, she was solidly middle class, but it was very important to her that she be perceived as highly respectable. Despite her reliance on the income of, like, taking lodgers in her house, that kind of thing. She went out of her way to give the impression that she had wealth. She had class.Dress for the job you want, not the job you have.Exactly. She just liked, I don't have to be rich to look rich is what she was saying.You don't.I don't have to spend all that money to look rich. I look rich.Go, Franny.And it's like, good job, Julia.Exactly.So although she was generally thought of positively by her neighbors, like we said, and her friends and people who knew her at the pub and all that, she didn't go to the pub. They just knew her from, like. Yeah. Julia's reputation as a demanding employer with high standards made it a little difficult for her to find long term domestic workers. Actually, records indicate that she hired a lot of servants over the years. Only one maid was known to have stayed employed by her for any real length of time. Damn. The rest of them just gone.They just couldn't hack it.Yeah. Because of this gnarly track record, in January 1879, Julia found herself yet again looking for a new Maidan. And this is when her friend Lucy Loder mentioned. Hey, I actually just recently came in contact with this young irish woman named Kate Webster.Not Kate.And Kate Webster had done a few days labor for Lucy, her friend there, and was looking for long term employment in the area. So she was like, this seems perfect. She was great for what I needed her for.Yeah. Ten out of ten recommend.There you go. Which, like, oops, you should not have.Zero out of ten. Looking back.This is one of those things where you, like, you vouch for somebody and then you're like, fuck, we have all been there. So Kate Webster was born, actually Katherine Lawler.Huh.Which should give you a little idea of, like, huh. We have an alias.Yeah, we don't love that.What's going on there?What a fun last name. Lawler. Lawler.That'd be good.In the group chat.She was born circa 1849, in Killan, County Wexford, Northern Ireland.Okay.From the moment of her arrest later in life, the authorities found it very difficult to verify a lot about what Webster told them of her backstory and personal trusted by millions. Right now, embark has a limited time offer on their breed and health test for our listeners. Go to embarkvet.com to get free shipping and save $50 with promo code morbid. Visit embarkvet.com and use promo code morbid to save $50 today. Sydney and Blanche highly recommend it. Scotland Yard detectives couldn't yet prove that Julia had been murdered by Kate, but there was enough evidence to arrest Kate for robbery at least, and a warrant was put out for her arrest. Though her whereabouts at this time, no one knew. Right now, under normal circumstances, 19th century detectives would have had a very difficult time tracking a criminal who'd fled the city, particularly one who had a significant head start, because again, it's the 18 hundreds. This isn't easy. They're not just like, oh, follow their cell phone signal. Like, it's literally like they're gone. We don't know where they went.Right.But she had a significant criminal history. Kate was very known to authorities in various places around England and Ireland. And so a constable in Wexford recognized her from a previous arrest and contacted Scotland Yard.Okay, I know that asshole.I know that bitch. And the Wexford constable gave detectives from London the address of Kate's relatives in the area. And on March 29, she was arrested at her uncle's home in kill Ann and transported right on back to London.See ya.Now, on Monday morning, March 31, Kate was brought before the magistrates in Richmond, where she was charged with the murder of Juliet Martha Thomas, as well as larceny for the theft and attempted sale of Thomas's property. Now, at the time, John Church was also charged with being a conspirator in the crime and for receiving stolen property. Those charges would be eventually completely dropped. That's good, because it was determined he had absolutely nothing to do with it.Yeah, I mean, she was posing as Julia.At first, though, Kate tried to pin the blame of the murder on John Church.Yeah. That's not shocking.No, not at all. She said, I first got acquainted with him when I was living two or three doors down from him. She said, he used to take me out to London into various public houses. I met him again some months ago, and he came to my mistress's house one night, the worse for drink. So he came drunk. And according to Kate, it was church who suggested they murder Julia for profit from selling her shit.Meanwhile, he's like, no, no, no. I thought that was Julia. Like, I don't know her.And he's like, I'm a furniture buyer. Like, why would I sell to me? Would I sell it to, like, I'm a furniture buyer. Like, what the fuck?That doesn't make any sense.And she quoted church as allegedly saying, we could have her things and go off to America together and enjoy it.Wow.She really thought, me thinks you had a crush on John church, and you're mad? You want to create this, like, fantasy of him being like, we'll run off to America together. And John church is like, help.I don't even.She was Julia. Like, what the f. And Kate went on to claim that church murdered Julia Thomas himself.Oh, my God.And threatened to kill her as well if she spoke a word of the crime to Anne. Anyone.And, you know, didn't pretend to be Julia.Exactly. Now, in statements to both the police and the press, John Church denied literally anything. Word for, like, I only recently met Kate Webster, and I thought she was Julia Thomas. Like that. I don't know her. We didn't hang out. I didn't want to run off to America with her. I don't even know her real name.Right?According to John Church, the woman he now knew to be Kate Webster had been introduced to him only a couple of weeks earlier by a mutual acquaintance. And she claimed to have. What she had said to him was that she had lost her husband a few years earlier. So she was, captain, literally cosplaying Julia Thomas, saying, I'm a widow.Oh, fuck. I know.Okay, okay. And she was attempting to rent rooms in her home as a mean of. Means of income, which is literally what Julia Thomas was doing.This is psychotic.But she said she had been unsuccessful at keeping people like lodgers, so she needed to sell her furniture.Okay?That's what she was telling him. And the two had made an arrangement. And the next time he saw her was just to pay for the goods. And then he said. And then I attempted to pick up the items, but then I was stopped by misses Ives.Right?And church was like, what the fuck is going on? What is happening? And he said, only just think of the impudence and audacity of the woman to come here dressed up in her silk dresses, representing herself to be a lady and the mistress of the house, and swindle me. In this way and bring all the trouble on me.That translates roughly into fuck this.To, like, what is this fuck. Shit?Like, what is it that translates into this bitch.This bitch. That's what that translates into. In 2024, but within a few days of the arrests, Kate had implicated yet another suspected conspirator named Henry Porter, who had introduced her to church for the sale of the furniture. According to Kate, Porter had also been in on the scheme and had even used his young son, Robert, to help Kate dispose of the remains in the Thames. And Kate said church and Porter were with me at the time. I intend to tell the whole truth, as I do not see why I should be blamed for what church has done.Bitch.And remember, she's a fucking liar. She lies about everything.She's got big old issues.But fortunately for church, several people testified as to having seen him at the bar. The rising sun on the night of the murder. And similarly, in her depositions, Porter's wife. Henry Porter's wife, gave a detailed explanation of how the family had come to know Kate and insisted that while her husband may have introduced Kate to John church for the sale of the furniture, he had no idea that the items were stolen or that Julia had been murdered.Yeah.No, they thought she was on vacation, right. After several continuances and pretrial hearings, Kate finally went to trial at the Old Bailey. We've heard of that before. On July 22, 1879. Due to the extensive coverage of the case leading up to this trial and just the sensational details of the case, the courtroom was well attended by curious onlookers. There were additional people outside the courthouse wanting to know what was going on. And at the time, Kate pleaded not guilty and continued to say that the murder had been committed by others. Wow. And in support of their argument, Kate's lawyer, Werner Slay, pointed out that which we're. Slay.You know, it reminds me of a legally blonde Werner. Yes. What? Like, it's wild. He's the guy that does all those nature videos.Like under the voice of an angel. Yes.Yeah.That David Attenborough.That one.That one.I'll never listen to one of those. The same way.2010, they found the final. And this is why I'm telling you, there is always hope to close a fucking case.Totally. A 130 years later.Always. There's never a time where you can say, we will never find out. That's why I hold out hope for Jack the Ripper shit. Cuz I'm telling you, that's. There's always something. cool lady. Yeah.She didn't deserve what she got.Kate sounded like a fucking trip.Kate is a trip.Not an enjoyable.No, not at all. And she really fucked herself. Very much. You could add a nice cushy job here.Yeah. And it's so creepy that she just kept wearing her shit. Like what?Selling her stuff and like, ordering things on her tab.Yeah.What, like, what the. Then she's like, I didn't plan it. It's like, okay, but you did some terrible shit after. Like, just because you didn't plan it.Do your job. And if you throw somebody down the stairs, you gotta tell someone.Yeah. Don't throw people downstairs.Don't.Obviously. Yeah. So that's. That's that.Well, we hope you keep listening.And we hope you keep it weird.But not so weird that you kill your employer. And chop her up into little pieces. And then boil her on the stove and feed the fat to local children.Don't do that.Yuck.Oh, okay.Are you alright today? The fuck? You're insan. You're insan woman. If you like morbid you can listen early and ad free right now by joining wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey@wondery.com. survey.From wondery I'm Indravama, and this is the spy who this season, we open the file on Oleg Penkowski, the spy who defused the missile crisis. It's 1960, and the world's on the brink of nuclear war. However, one man in Moscow is about to emerge from the shadows with an offer for the CIA. His name is Oleg Penkowski. As a cold war double agent, Penkovsky wants to supply the US with the Soviet Union's greatest nuclear secrets. But is this man putting his life on the line to save the world? Or is he part of an elaborate trap? Follow the spy who on the wondery app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Or you can binge the full season of the spy who defused the missile crisis early and ad free with wondery. Plus.

I'm just kidding.

Oh. You know, again, she was solidly middle class, but it was very important to her that she be perceived as highly respectable. Despite her reliance on the income of, like, taking lodgers in her house, that kind of thing. She went out of her way to give the impression that she had wealth. She had class.

Dress for the job you want, not the job you have.

Exactly. She just liked, I don't have to be rich to look rich is what she was saying.

You don't.

I don't have to spend all that money to look rich. I look rich.

Go, Franny.

And it's like, good job, Julia.

Exactly.

So although she was generally thought of positively by her neighbors, like we said, and her friends and people who knew her at the pub and all that, she didn't go to the pub. They just knew her from, like. Yeah. Julia's reputation as a demanding employer with high standards made it a little difficult for her to find long term domestic workers. Actually, records indicate that she hired a lot of servants over the years. Only one maid was known to have stayed employed by her for any real length of time. Damn. The rest of them just gone.

They just couldn't hack it.

Yeah. Because of this gnarly track record, in January 1879, Julia found herself yet again looking for a new Maidan. And this is when her friend Lucy Loder mentioned. Hey, I actually just recently came in contact with this young irish woman named Kate Webster.

Not Kate.

And Kate Webster had done a few days labor for Lucy, her friend there, and was looking for long term employment in the area. So she was like, this seems perfect. She was great for what I needed her for.

Yeah. Ten out of ten recommend.

There you go. Which, like, oops, you should not have.

Zero out of ten. Looking back.

This is one of those things where you, like, you vouch for somebody and then you're like, fuck, we have all been there. So Kate Webster was born, actually Katherine Lawler.

Huh.

Which should give you a little idea of, like, huh. We have an alias.

Yeah, we don't love that.

What's going on there?

What a fun last name. Lawler. Lawler.

That'd be good.

In the group chat.

She was born circa 1849, in Killan, County Wexford, Northern Ireland.

Okay.

From the moment of her arrest later in life, the authorities found it very difficult to verify a lot about what Webster told them of her backstory and personal trusted by millions. Right now, embark has a limited time offer on their breed and health test for our listeners. Go to embarkvet.com to get free shipping and save $50 with promo code morbid. Visit embarkvet.com and use promo code morbid to save $50 today. Sydney and Blanche highly recommend it. Scotland Yard detectives couldn't yet prove that Julia had been murdered by Kate, but there was enough evidence to arrest Kate for robbery at least, and a warrant was put out for her arrest. Though her whereabouts at this time, no one knew. Right now, under normal circumstances, 19th century detectives would have had a very difficult time tracking a criminal who'd fled the city, particularly one who had a significant head start, because again, it's the 18 hundreds. This isn't easy. They're not just like, oh, follow their cell phone signal. Like, it's literally like they're gone. We don't know where they went.Right.But she had a significant criminal history. Kate was very known to authorities in various places around England and Ireland. And so a constable in Wexford recognized her from a previous arrest and contacted Scotland Yard.Okay, I know that asshole.I know that bitch. And the Wexford constable gave detectives from London the address of Kate's relatives in the area. And on March 29, she was arrested at her uncle's home in kill Ann and transported right on back to London.See ya.Now, on Monday morning, March 31, Kate was brought before the magistrates in Richmond, where she was charged with the murder of Juliet Martha Thomas, as well as larceny for the theft and attempted sale of Thomas's property. Now, at the time, John Church was also charged with being a conspirator in the crime and for receiving stolen property. Those charges would be eventually completely dropped. That's good, because it was determined he had absolutely nothing to do with it.Yeah, I mean, she was posing as Julia.At first, though, Kate tried to pin the blame of the murder on John Church.Yeah. That's not shocking.No, not at all. She said, I first got acquainted with him when I was living two or three doors down from him. She said, he used to take me out to London into various public houses. I met him again some months ago, and he came to my mistress's house one night, the worse for drink. So he came drunk. And according to Kate, it was church who suggested they murder Julia for profit from selling her shit.Meanwhile, he's like, no, no, no. I thought that was Julia. Like, I don't know her.And he's like, I'm a furniture buyer. Like, why would I sell to me? Would I sell it to, like, I'm a furniture buyer. Like, what the fuck?That doesn't make any sense.And she quoted church as allegedly saying, we could have her things and go off to America together and enjoy it.Wow.She really thought, me thinks you had a crush on John church, and you're mad? You want to create this, like, fantasy of him being like, we'll run off to America together. And John church is like, help.I don't even.She was Julia. Like, what the f. And Kate went on to claim that church murdered Julia Thomas himself.Oh, my God.And threatened to kill her as well if she spoke a word of the crime to Anne. Anyone.And, you know, didn't pretend to be Julia.Exactly. Now, in statements to both the police and the press, John Church denied literally anything. Word for, like, I only recently met Kate Webster, and I thought she was Julia Thomas. Like that. I don't know her. We didn't hang out. I didn't want to run off to America with her. I don't even know her real name.Right?According to John Church, the woman he now knew to be Kate Webster had been introduced to him only a couple of weeks earlier by a mutual acquaintance. And she claimed to have. What she had said to him was that she had lost her husband a few years earlier. So she was, captain, literally cosplaying Julia Thomas, saying, I'm a widow.Oh, fuck. I know.Okay, okay. And she was attempting to rent rooms in her home as a mean of. Means of income, which is literally what Julia Thomas was doing.This is psychotic.But she said she had been unsuccessful at keeping people like lodgers, so she needed to sell her furniture.Okay?That's what she was telling him. And the two had made an arrangement. And the next time he saw her was just to pay for the goods. And then he said. And then I attempted to pick up the items, but then I was stopped by misses Ives.Right?And church was like, what the fuck is going on? What is happening? And he said, only just think of the impudence and audacity of the woman to come here dressed up in her silk dresses, representing herself to be a lady and the mistress of the house, and swindle me. In this way and bring all the trouble on me.That translates roughly into fuck this.To, like, what is this fuck. Shit?Like, what is it that translates into this bitch.This bitch. That's what that translates into. In 2024, but within a few days of the arrests, Kate had implicated yet another suspected conspirator named Henry Porter, who had introduced her to church for the sale of the furniture. According to Kate, Porter had also been in on the scheme and had even used his young son, Robert, to help Kate dispose of the remains in the Thames. And Kate said church and Porter were with me at the time. I intend to tell the whole truth, as I do not see why I should be blamed for what church has done.Bitch.And remember, she's a fucking liar. She lies about everything.She's got big old issues.But fortunately for church, several people testified as to having seen him at the bar. The rising sun on the night of the murder. And similarly, in her depositions, Porter's wife. Henry Porter's wife, gave a detailed explanation of how the family had come to know Kate and insisted that while her husband may have introduced Kate to John church for the sale of the furniture, he had no idea that the items were stolen or that Julia had been murdered.Yeah.No, they thought she was on vacation, right. After several continuances and pretrial hearings, Kate finally went to trial at the Old Bailey. We've heard of that before. On July 22, 1879. Due to the extensive coverage of the case leading up to this trial and just the sensational details of the case, the courtroom was well attended by curious onlookers. There were additional people outside the courthouse wanting to know what was going on. And at the time, Kate pleaded not guilty and continued to say that the murder had been committed by others. Wow. And in support of their argument, Kate's lawyer, Werner Slay, pointed out that which we're. Slay.You know, it reminds me of a legally blonde Werner. Yes. What? Like, it's wild. He's the guy that does all those nature videos.Like under the voice of an angel. Yes.Yeah.That David Attenborough.That one.That one.I'll never listen to one of those. The same way.2010, they found the final. And this is why I'm telling you, there is always hope to close a fucking case.Totally. A 130 years later.Always. There's never a time where you can say, we will never find out. That's why I hold out hope for Jack the Ripper shit. Cuz I'm telling you, that's. There's always something. cool lady. Yeah.She didn't deserve what she got.Kate sounded like a fucking trip.Kate is a trip.Not an enjoyable.No, not at all. And she really fucked herself. Very much. You could add a nice cushy job here.Yeah. And it's so creepy that she just kept wearing her shit. Like what?Selling her stuff and like, ordering things on her tab.Yeah.What, like, what the. Then she's like, I didn't plan it. It's like, okay, but you did some terrible shit after. Like, just because you didn't plan it.Do your job. And if you throw somebody down the stairs, you gotta tell someone.Yeah. Don't throw people downstairs.Don't.Obviously. Yeah. So that's. That's that.Well, we hope you keep listening.And we hope you keep it weird.But not so weird that you kill your employer. And chop her up into little pieces. And then boil her on the stove and feed the fat to local children.Don't do that.Yuck.Oh, okay.Are you alright today? The fuck? You're insan. You're insan woman. If you like morbid you can listen early and ad free right now by joining wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey@wondery.com. survey.From wondery I'm Indravama, and this is the spy who this season, we open the file on Oleg Penkowski, the spy who defused the missile crisis. It's 1960, and the world's on the brink of nuclear war. However, one man in Moscow is about to emerge from the shadows with an offer for the CIA. His name is Oleg Penkowski. As a cold war double agent, Penkovsky wants to supply the US with the Soviet Union's greatest nuclear secrets. But is this man putting his life on the line to save the world? Or is he part of an elaborate trap? Follow the spy who on the wondery app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Or you can binge the full season of the spy who defused the missile crisis early and ad free with wondery. Plus.

trusted by millions. Right now, embark has a limited time offer on their breed and health test for our listeners. Go to embarkvet.com to get free shipping and save $50 with promo code morbid. Visit embarkvet.com and use promo code morbid to save $50 today. Sydney and Blanche highly recommend it. Scotland Yard detectives couldn't yet prove that Julia had been murdered by Kate, but there was enough evidence to arrest Kate for robbery at least, and a warrant was put out for her arrest. Though her whereabouts at this time, no one knew. Right now, under normal circumstances, 19th century detectives would have had a very difficult time tracking a criminal who'd fled the city, particularly one who had a significant head start, because again, it's the 18 hundreds. This isn't easy. They're not just like, oh, follow their cell phone signal. Like, it's literally like they're gone. We don't know where they went.

Right.

But she had a significant criminal history. Kate was very known to authorities in various places around England and Ireland. And so a constable in Wexford recognized her from a previous arrest and contacted Scotland Yard.

Okay, I know that asshole.

I know that bitch. And the Wexford constable gave detectives from London the address of Kate's relatives in the area. And on March 29, she was arrested at her uncle's home in kill Ann and transported right on back to London.

See ya.

Now, on Monday morning, March 31, Kate was brought before the magistrates in Richmond, where she was charged with the murder of Juliet Martha Thomas, as well as larceny for the theft and attempted sale of Thomas's property. Now, at the time, John Church was also charged with being a conspirator in the crime and for receiving stolen property. Those charges would be eventually completely dropped. That's good, because it was determined he had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Yeah, I mean, she was posing as Julia.

At first, though, Kate tried to pin the blame of the murder on John Church.

Yeah. That's not shocking.

No, not at all. She said, I first got acquainted with him when I was living two or three doors down from him. She said, he used to take me out to London into various public houses. I met him again some months ago, and he came to my mistress's house one night, the worse for drink. So he came drunk. And according to Kate, it was church who suggested they murder Julia for profit from selling her shit.

Meanwhile, he's like, no, no, no. I thought that was Julia. Like, I don't know her.

And he's like, I'm a furniture buyer. Like, why would I sell to me? Would I sell it to, like, I'm a furniture buyer. Like, what the fuck?

That doesn't make any sense.

And she quoted church as allegedly saying, we could have her things and go off to America together and enjoy it.

Wow.

She really thought, me thinks you had a crush on John church, and you're mad? You want to create this, like, fantasy of him being like, we'll run off to America together. And John church is like, help.

I don't even.

She was Julia. Like, what the f. And Kate went on to claim that church murdered Julia Thomas himself.

Oh, my God.

And threatened to kill her as well if she spoke a word of the crime to Anne. Anyone.

And, you know, didn't pretend to be Julia.

Exactly. Now, in statements to both the police and the press, John Church denied literally anything. Word for, like, I only recently met Kate Webster, and I thought she was Julia Thomas. Like that. I don't know her. We didn't hang out. I didn't want to run off to America with her. I don't even know her real name.

Right?

According to John Church, the woman he now knew to be Kate Webster had been introduced to him only a couple of weeks earlier by a mutual acquaintance. And she claimed to have. What she had said to him was that she had lost her husband a few years earlier. So she was, captain, literally cosplaying Julia Thomas, saying, I'm a widow.

Oh, fuck. I know.

Okay, okay. And she was attempting to rent rooms in her home as a mean of. Means of income, which is literally what Julia Thomas was doing.

This is psychotic.

But she said she had been unsuccessful at keeping people like lodgers, so she needed to sell her furniture.

Okay?

That's what she was telling him. And the two had made an arrangement. And the next time he saw her was just to pay for the goods. And then he said. And then I attempted to pick up the items, but then I was stopped by misses Ives.

Right?

And church was like, what the fuck is going on? What is happening? And he said, only just think of the impudence and audacity of the woman to come here dressed up in her silk dresses, representing herself to be a lady and the mistress of the house, and swindle me. In this way and bring all the trouble on me.

That translates roughly into fuck this.

To, like, what is this fuck. Shit?

Like, what is it that translates into this bitch.

This bitch. That's what that translates into. In 2024, but within a few days of the arrests, Kate had implicated yet another suspected conspirator named Henry Porter, who had introduced her to church for the sale of the furniture. According to Kate, Porter had also been in on the scheme and had even used his young son, Robert, to help Kate dispose of the remains in the Thames. And Kate said church and Porter were with me at the time. I intend to tell the whole truth, as I do not see why I should be blamed for what church has done.

Bitch.

And remember, she's a fucking liar. She lies about everything.

She's got big old issues.

But fortunately for church, several people testified as to having seen him at the bar. The rising sun on the night of the murder. And similarly, in her depositions, Porter's wife. Henry Porter's wife, gave a detailed explanation of how the family had come to know Kate and insisted that while her husband may have introduced Kate to John church for the sale of the furniture, he had no idea that the items were stolen or that Julia had been murdered.

Yeah.

No, they thought she was on vacation, right. After several continuances and pretrial hearings, Kate finally went to trial at the Old Bailey. We've heard of that before. On July 22, 1879. Due to the extensive coverage of the case leading up to this trial and just the sensational details of the case, the courtroom was well attended by curious onlookers. There were additional people outside the courthouse wanting to know what was going on. And at the time, Kate pleaded not guilty and continued to say that the murder had been committed by others. Wow. And in support of their argument, Kate's lawyer, Werner Slay, pointed out that which we're. Slay.

You know, it reminds me of a legally blonde Werner. Yes. What? Like, it's wild. He's the guy that does all those nature videos.Like under the voice of an angel. Yes.Yeah.That David Attenborough.That one.That one.I'll never listen to one of those. The same way.2010, they found the final. And this is why I'm telling you, there is always hope to close a fucking case.Totally. A 130 years later.Always. There's never a time where you can say, we will never find out. That's why I hold out hope for Jack the Ripper shit. Cuz I'm telling you, that's. There's always something. cool lady. Yeah.She didn't deserve what she got.Kate sounded like a fucking trip.Kate is a trip.Not an enjoyable.No, not at all. And she really fucked herself. Very much. You could add a nice cushy job here.Yeah. And it's so creepy that she just kept wearing her shit. Like what?Selling her stuff and like, ordering things on her tab.Yeah.What, like, what the. Then she's like, I didn't plan it. It's like, okay, but you did some terrible shit after. Like, just because you didn't plan it.Do your job. And if you throw somebody down the stairs, you gotta tell someone.Yeah. Don't throw people downstairs.Don't.Obviously. Yeah. So that's. That's that.Well, we hope you keep listening.And we hope you keep it weird.But not so weird that you kill your employer. And chop her up into little pieces. And then boil her on the stove and feed the fat to local children.Don't do that.Yuck.Oh, okay.Are you alright today? The fuck? You're insan. You're insan woman. If you like morbid you can listen early and ad free right now by joining wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey@wondery.com. survey.From wondery I'm Indravama, and this is the spy who this season, we open the file on Oleg Penkowski, the spy who defused the missile crisis. It's 1960, and the world's on the brink of nuclear war. However, one man in Moscow is about to emerge from the shadows with an offer for the CIA. His name is Oleg Penkowski. As a cold war double agent, Penkovsky wants to supply the US with the Soviet Union's greatest nuclear secrets. But is this man putting his life on the line to save the world? Or is he part of an elaborate trap? Follow the spy who on the wondery app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Or you can binge the full season of the spy who defused the missile crisis early and ad free with wondery. Plus.

wild. He's the guy that does all those nature videos.

Like under the voice of an angel. Yes.

Yeah.

That David Attenborough.

That one.

That one.

I'll never listen to one of those. The same way.

2010, they found the final. And this is why I'm telling you, there is always hope to close a fucking case.

Totally. A 130 years later.

Always. There's never a time where you can say, we will never find out. That's why I hold out hope for Jack the Ripper shit. Cuz I'm telling you, that's. There's always something. cool lady. Yeah.She didn't deserve what she got.Kate sounded like a fucking trip.Kate is a trip.Not an enjoyable.No, not at all. And she really fucked herself. Very much. You could add a nice cushy job here.Yeah. And it's so creepy that she just kept wearing her shit. Like what?Selling her stuff and like, ordering things on her tab.Yeah.What, like, what the. Then she's like, I didn't plan it. It's like, okay, but you did some terrible shit after. Like, just because you didn't plan it.Do your job. And if you throw somebody down the stairs, you gotta tell someone.Yeah. Don't throw people downstairs.Don't.Obviously. Yeah. So that's. That's that.Well, we hope you keep listening.And we hope you keep it weird.But not so weird that you kill your employer. And chop her up into little pieces. And then boil her on the stove and feed the fat to local children.Don't do that.Yuck.Oh, okay.Are you alright today? The fuck? You're insan. You're insan woman. If you like morbid you can listen early and ad free right now by joining wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey@wondery.com. survey.From wondery I'm Indravama, and this is the spy who this season, we open the file on Oleg Penkowski, the spy who defused the missile crisis. It's 1960, and the world's on the brink of nuclear war. However, one man in Moscow is about to emerge from the shadows with an offer for the CIA. His name is Oleg Penkowski. As a cold war double agent, Penkovsky wants to supply the US with the Soviet Union's greatest nuclear secrets. But is this man putting his life on the line to save the world? Or is he part of an elaborate trap? Follow the spy who on the wondery app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Or you can binge the full season of the spy who defused the missile crisis early and ad free with wondery. Plus.

cool lady. Yeah.

She didn't deserve what she got.

Kate sounded like a fucking trip.

Kate is a trip.

Not an enjoyable.

No, not at all. And she really fucked herself. Very much. You could add a nice cushy job here.

Yeah. And it's so creepy that she just kept wearing her shit. Like what?

Selling her stuff and like, ordering things on her tab.

Yeah.

What, like, what the. Then she's like, I didn't plan it. It's like, okay, but you did some terrible shit after. Like, just because you didn't plan it.

Do your job. And if you throw somebody down the stairs, you gotta tell someone.

Yeah. Don't throw people downstairs.

Don't.

Obviously. Yeah. So that's. That's that.

Well, we hope you keep listening.

And we hope you keep it weird.

But not so weird that you kill your employer. And chop her up into little pieces. And then boil her on the stove and feed the fat to local children.

Don't do that.

Yuck.

Oh, okay.

Are you alright today? The fuck? You're insan. You're insan woman. If you like morbid you can listen early and ad free right now by joining wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey@wondery.com. survey.

From wondery I'm Indravama, and this is the spy who this season, we open the file on Oleg Penkowski, the spy who defused the missile crisis. It's 1960, and the world's on the brink of nuclear war. However, one man in Moscow is about to emerge from the shadows with an offer for the CIA. His name is Oleg Penkowski. As a cold war double agent, Penkovsky wants to supply the US with the Soviet Union's greatest nuclear secrets. But is this man putting his life on the line to save the world? Or is he part of an elaborate trap? Follow the spy who on the wondery app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Or you can binge the full season of the spy who defused the missile crisis early and ad free with wondery. Plus.