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Hey, weirdos. I'm Ash.

And I'm Elena. Whoa.

And this is morbid.

Do you ever.

I bet some people think that we hate each other based off of our, like, answers. Yes. Like, I just went, whoa. Like, I was like, okay, calm down. But really, I was just like, wow, she's crazy.

Oh, there are definitely some people who think we hate each other.

Should we tell them?

Guys, we actually hate each other.

It's really hard to be around each other.

It is. I hate it. It's the worst.

It's terrible.

Yeah.

Did I even say this is morbid yet?

Yeah.

Okay, that's good.

So we're here.

We're here. We love each other.

It's true. In fact, I just said, hey, I did something crazy. And she said, what? And I said, I ordered a bunch of pumpkin bagels on a whim that are coming tomorrow. And she said, that's not crazy at all. I'm excited about that. That's why you're my people. That's love.

That's actually not crazy in any way.

Yeah. You were like, that's not crazy at all.

Especially based off the things that I. Impulse purchase.

Yeah.

When I show you my impulse purchases, you go, that's literally insane. Mine aren't bagels.

Yeah. Mine are just like, look at these bagels that look like a pumpkin.

I don't have kids, so I just be buying myself, eating cool shit.

I'm so excited to put those bagels in the girls lunches.

I'm so excited to put one of those bagels into my face. Hell, yeah.

Hell, yeah.

Hell, yeah, brother. Well, it's morbid. We're reunited. We're in person. I'm not Covid y anymore. You're not Covid y anymore.

Yeah, I'm negative. I'm still. I still got that, like, lingering cough, which is very annoying.

I never fucking got one. I did wake up this morning, though. I also tested negative finally, which is great. And I woke up this morning, and I was, like, sneezing a lot.

That could be allergies. Oh. Cause everything's kind of, like, moving around now with the rain and stuff, you.

Know, it's so weird. Like, you're just, like, laying in your bed, and then you wake up with allergies. Like, did the allergies come in my room? Do you know what I mean? I don't really get it.

Did they make an appointment? And I didn't write it down.

Like, I don't sleep with my windows open. So how do the allergies get in?

I think your body is just, like, it's aller heat out there.

Maybe that's gotta be it.

That's the scientific reason for it.

I would love if I asked my doctor, and he just said, well, your.

Body'S just, like, there's allergies out there.

My specific doctor, too, to just say that.

I feel like my doctor might say that.

Honestly, I also.

Which I appreciate.

We don't have this.

No.

I, like, no.

Communicate. It was just like, no, no, we.

Don'T have the same doctor, but we do go to the same doctor.

Mine, I think, would.

Mine also would. Yeah, maybe it's, like, a practice wide thing. Yeah, I like that. All right, well, that's doctors. That's allergies and my abysmal understanding of them.

And onto the episode, because it's spooky season, y'all.

It's spooky season.

Spooky season.

But I feel like we kind of, like, made this a theme that we're also doing. Like, I feel like a lot of times we go, like, full spooky, which is, like, super fun.

Yeah.

But without even meaning to, we've intertwined true crime into this spooky season.

Yeah, it's definitely become, like, a more, like, mishmashed one, which I like. Yeah, it's a lot. We've touched upon a lot of different things. Got some, like, spooky. We did some spooky cemeteries and, like, spooky hotels, which is fun. We've done some haunting, some, you know, fake haunting, some true crime that caused the fake hauntings.

Yeah. You know, so we're actually in a place of, like, true crime causing the fake question mark hauntings.

Ooh, I like that.

This is a place that, like, honestly, I'll be quite frank and open with you. At the beginning, most of this is just true crime, and the end is, like, a little bit haunted, but there's debate over how haunted it truly is.

Ooh.

So we're going to be talking, unfortunately, about the murder of Preston Murr, but also the Boise murder mansion. Ooh. So a little after midnight on June 30, 1987. So not too far back, guys.

No, I was born.

I was not.

So there's that.

I wasn't even a star in the sky. But you were.

I was.

You were out of the skyd.

Yeah. I mean, I was only, like, two, but still, I was here.

That's kicking. You might have been able to walk.

Yeah. I mean, I hope so. By then, I don't know. Milestones.

I'm not there yet. Okay. But anyway, I was like, maybe.

I hope.

I don't know. I don't know how any of that works. But a little after midnight on June 30, 1987, when Elena knew how to walk.

Yes.

Clinton Sparks was woken from sleep by what sounded like somebody running down the street and shouting outside of his window.

No, go back to sleep.

No, no. That's exactly what we tell people not to do.

I know, but it's so scary.

It is so scary. The noise was loud enough to disturb his dog, who started barking uncontrollably at the noise outside. So that's when you really can't go back to sleep.

No, you can't.

So Clinton got out of his bed to investigate the noise, and he looked out his front window, where he saw two figures running toward the door. A moment later, one of the figures had reached his front steps and was banging on the front door frantically. Clinton later said, I didn't know what was happening. I didn't hear voices at that time. So completely fucking terrified, he backed away from the door, and at that very moment, he heard a man's voice shout, let go of me. Let go of me.

Oh.

And to him, the voice sounded desperate, sounded terrified. He said it sounded like someone who was in a lot of pain. So after hesitating for, like, a minute or two, because, you know, you gotta.

Be, oh, I would not know what the fuck to do in that situation. I'd be calling the police.

Yeah.

That's the only thing I would know how to do.

That's the thing. Like, immediately, all you, like, all. All you need to do in that situation is call the police. You don't have to open your door.

But because this is 1987, it's not like he has a cell phone on him where he can just quickly call.

No, he's got his landline.

Yeah.

So he opened the door, and he saw what appeared to be a large smear of blood on his storm door. And he said he could still hear yelling from somewhere outside. But by then, whoever had been at the door was gone. So he was like, what the fuck do I do? And I think he probably was sitting. Remember, this is like the middle of the night.

So he's like, yeah.

Did this just happen?

Like, what the fuck? Like, shaken and damn. What a fucking badass that he opened that door. Like, not everybody would.

No, I don't know that I.

And honestly, it would be very dangerous to. If you, you know, I mean, like, it sounds like there's multiple people out there.

Oh, knowing what we know, I think it's a good. It's not a good thing that he didn't open the door, but I think it.

It could have gotten a lot worse.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah. So after waiting about ten minutes, he called 911 to report what he believed was a violent altercation of some kind. And he said, I'm pretty sure there's somebody out there in need of assistance. Like, somebody's bleeding, screaming. So he told the dispatcher, a couple of guys came up and beat on the door. I went outside and looked, and there's some blood on the door, it looks like. And he said he couldn't see anybody in the street at that time, like, when he was calling. But he said it appeared as though, quote, something's going on in the house across the street. And when the dispatcher asked what Clinton wanted them to do for him, he was like, well, I'd like an officer to come check out the neighborhood, to look around.

I'd be so irritated. I'd be like, what the fuck do you think I want you to do?

Like, I can.

I want you for. Write me a haiku about it. The fuck do you think I want you to do?

That's the point.

You're the goddamn emergency services. Come. Emergency serve, please.

Like, I just told you, I heard yelling and there's lullaby door and somebody in need of help. And you're like, well, what do you want me to do? I'm like, off your job.

I want you to tell me what you think of the new Terminator movie.

Would you tell me a nighttime lullaby? Who are you? Not somebody smart.

No.

So he was like, can you send somebody out to have a look around? And he gave the address in the cross street, and then was like, okay. Like, hope you're coming.

Goodbye now.

That same evening, a fire had broken out at a house across town, and the dispatcher decided that emergency should be given a higher priority, the fire, than the disturbance. So Clinton's call wasn't even flagged as an emergency. Wow. Which is very.

That's wild.

Crazy.

Like, I understand that a fire is, like, happening right now. Yeah.

So, like, that's.

You gotta triage those things. But it's, like, still a big deal. Someone's bleeding outside.

Well, that's you. You do have to triage them. Yeah, to, like, some level of importance. And if somebody's bleeding, I think that would be, like, high on the list.

I would think so.

Strangely enough, though, the call wasn't dispatched to an officer until 48 minutes after the call was placed.

Awesome.

At that time, the officer who was assigned to the call was busy and asked that it be reassigned. But for whatever reason, the dispatcher never sent the call to another officer.

What the fuck?

It was, like, a huge fuck up.

Yeah.

So the next day, another resident in the neighborhood called the police to report what they believed was a large amount of blood in the street.

Okay.

So much so that, quote, someone or something could have bled enough to have died.

They said, what the fuck?

So at that point, officers finally got around to investigating the front door of Clinton sparks home, where they did indeed find a bloody handprint. Sergeant Jim Tibbs told a reporter it appeared like he had a whole handful of blood. So there was, like, a straight up bloody handprint on Clinton's store.

Oh, yeah.

And Clinton's house wasn't the only one. Police also found a bloody handprint on. Bloody handprints. Excuse me. On the windows of another nearby home. Like, multiple.

My goodness.

So they were able to follow a literal blood trail from the large pool in the street all the way to the front door of 805 West Linden street, the home of Daniel and Katherine Rogers. The couple told the investigating officers that they actually weren't home the night before, and they didn't know anything about the blood or the supposed fight that happened in the street. But when officers returned with a warrant a short time later, they discovered that the blood trail led inside the house and continued down into the basement, where they discovered more than 13 pounds of marijuana scales and packaging material.

Oh, oops.

Yeah. So Daniel and Katherine Rogers were immediately arrested. Yeah. And they got arrested at that point on charges of possession of a controlled substance with intent to distribute, and the house was cordoned off for further investigation.

Cause were they just, like, hanging? They were just in that house with that blood trail going through it?

Yes.

Just, like, stepping over it when they had to get to the kitchen for.

A snack, I guess. What do you.

What?

I guess they just hadn't cleaned up.

And then the cops come, and they're like, oh, it's fine. This is not. We shouldn't clean this up. I think.

Yeah, no, no, this is not like.

I'm glad that they didn't.

Yeah, obviously. But, like, when also the cops come and remember 1987, weed was not legal. So you have 13 pounds of weed in your basement.

I don't know, maybe clean up, maybe.

Just like, you know. Yeah, maybe do anything.

Literally anything.

But again, glad they didn't. So as they continued searching the Rogers home, investigators found a significant amount of blood spatter on multiple surfaces throughout the house, obviously indicating that something pretty violent.

Had happened there and that they are not good, clean people.

No, no. Even though there wasn't any victim found in the home and no wounded victim had reported to area hospitals, Tibbs told a reporter, we're safe to say that it was human blood. Now, during their canvas of the neighborhood, one neighbor told officers that she actually saw Daniel Rogers hosing down the front porch of the house that morning, as well as the yard and sidewalk in front of the house. So he cleaned the outside of the home, but not the inn. In further searching of the home crime scene. At this point, crime scene technicians discovered a handgun and bullet fragments lodged in the wall by the front door, one in the laundry room, and one in the door frame leading to the basement. So, like, multiple bullets, just bullet fragments just lodged into various places in this home.

That's probably fine.

Yeah, totally.

We don't have to worry.

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Now, given the large amount of blood found inside and outside of the home, investigators started to theorize that the house had probably been the site of a murderous.

Yeah, likely.

But unfortunately, without a victim, they weren't able to charge the couple with anything other than the possession charges.

That's so fucked up.

But under the circumstances, a judge set their bond at an unusually high amount of $250,000 each. So it was going to be very unlikely that they'd be released. Now, the next day, 213 year old boys were fishing on the banks of Boise, Snake river, when one of their fishing lines got caught on two plastic bags floating in the river. And the boys hauled in the bags, and when they opened them, they discovered the arms and fingers of a man that police would later identify as 21 year old Preston Murr.

Holy shit.

213 year olds finding that gruesome of.

A fucking discovery, like, and 21 and.

21 years old, and that's just his arms and fingers. So where's the rest of it?

Like, what happened here?

Well, the next day, Carl Kitchen was fishing with his family when he spotted several objects floating in the Brownlee reservoir. When he managed to bring the bags to shore, he opened them to discover more body parts. Later determined to belong to Prestonmer, Kitchen later told a jury, I saw it had to be a piece of a human body from above the navel to just below the leg joints.

Oh, my God.

Yeah. Investigators would eventually find 13 garbage bags in total, all containing Preston Murr's remains.

Wow.

Now, Preston Murr was like a petty criminal who had spent his short life in and around Idaho Falls, Idaho, and he'd been arrested a handful of times for minor offenses, just like disturbing the peace. He wasn't a violent guy.

Yeah.

But just a few days earlier, on June 29, he had attended a funeral for a friend. And during the funeral, several attendees, including Daniel Rogers, had gotten drunk and gotten into an argument that quickly did escalate into a physical altercation. So the police were called to this funeral, and Preston Murr and the other men were given a citation and asked to leave. So Preston went back to his sister's apartment where he was staying, and he called the police to inform them that after he left the funeral, somebody called his sister's apartment and threatened to kill him.

Whoa.

Now, according to his sister, Tonda Streeper, Preston drank and smoked pot recreationally. But as far as she knew, he wasn't involved in any major criminal activity. She told a reporter she didn't know anybody who would want to kill him.

Yeah.

So when investigators put all the pieces together, a picture of what had actually happened to Prestonmer started to emerge, with Daniel and Katherine Rogers at the very center of it all. By the end of the week, Katherine had been ruled out as a participant in the murder. But detectives had identified Daniel Rogers accomplice, 31 year old Darren Cox. Both men were charged with the murder of Preston Murr, and Cox ended up being held without bailhead. So the more detectives looked into Daniel Rogers background, the more they became convinced that he was the primary shooter in the death of Prestonmer. He had a pretty violent past. He dropped out of high school in the 9th grade and spent most of his life just working menial jobs. He met his first wife, Kay, at one of those jobs, and they quickly got engaged and married. Later, Kay would tell a reporter that she never actually loved Daniel, but she saw him as her ticket out of her own abusive family.

Oh, that's sad.

What's even sadder, because he was just as abusive to her. Her dad was, like, really, really abusive. I read one of the newspaper clippings that Dave found I was reading, and their dad used to wake them up in the middle of the night and sit them on the couch and hold them at gunpoint. She grew up in an incredibly abusive home.

Oh, that makes me so sad.

Yeah, it's horrific. So then she married Daniel, and he was just as bad.

Oh, that happens so often.

Yeah, it's. It's hard the cycle repeats because it's like you don't know anything.

That's all you know.

So you don't know.

Well, that's what you think love is.

And that's what you think you deserve. Exactly.

But.

So they moved around for a while from state to state, across the south mostly. They had their first son together and then Daniel just suddenly ran off one day with the neighbor's wife.

Damn.

Daniel, back at it again with the neighbor's wife.

Like, holy shit.

Yeah. And then he just came.

But honestly, I'm glad. Oh, he came.

No.

Yeah, I was gonna say like, he's gone, bye.

No, Daniel never goes, I wanted K to be free. He just showed up one day, like came back and begged K to take him back. And she was like, no, you're a piece of shit. So he kidnapped their six month old son, essentially holding the baby as hostage until she agreed to take him back.

Fuck this guy.

Yeah, he's a piece of poor k. I know. And she has her own issues too, which is sad, but she. The good news is it really sounds like she turned her life around.

Good job, Kay.

Yeah. So in 1975, Daniel and Kay's relationship came to an end when he ended up turning her into the police in order to avoid being arrested himself for a robbery that they committed together in South Carolina. They had committed a couple robberies and Kay had committed other robberies herself in the past with various accomplices, even without Daniel. So she ended up. When he turned her in, she ended up being sentenced to twelve years in prison.

Holy shit.

Yeah. Cause these were like armed robberies too.

Damn.

At that point, Daniel was awarded temporary custody of their two kids. At this point.

Oh God.

And then. This is insane. Two years later, the day. The very day that he was awarded permanent custody of his two kids, he was arrested after shooting and killing his friend George Weatheraxe during an argument. He shot his friend in the head during an argument.

My God.

The very day that he was awarded custody of his two children, like permanently.

Why was he not put away forever?

I don't know.

Like this man is a problem for some reason.

It was only second degree murder that he got convicted for. So he only served five years in prison for this.

My God.

Yeah. When he was released in 1982, he married Catherine and moved to Boise with his new wife and two children still. And a few years later, he just decided that he was tired of fatherhood. So he called Kay and told her to come get the kids and take them for good.

So she's like, okay, I can't understand these people.

Mm hmm. Luckily, Kay, it sounds like she, like, got married. I think she became, like, a real estate agent. Like, a very successful real estate agent.

Okay, Kay.

And she, like, she got the kids together like, everything was good.

Okay, kay.

Yeah.

Happy for Kaye.

Since palming the kids off on his ex wife, Daniel and Catherine, his new wife, had been earning a living selling drugs, primarily cocaine and weed. And through the checks that they also got an earning through the checks that they received from the state for foster care services.

No, I'm sorry, what? Wait, they were foster.

Somehow they were involved in, like, foster care? No, I don't know how. As a convicted second degree murderer, I'm very confused. I don't know if they just used Catherine's credentials, but I'm assuming you check into both credentials.

You should, right?

Yeah.

Speaking of foster parents. And I'll say, like, no, this is. I'm gonna flip it on.

Okay, good, good.

Because that just made me really sad that they were foster. These poor kids are going to that home.

Yeah.

But I can tell you, like, there's a foster parent that I love.

Is it the lady on TikTok? Yeah, I love her.

And she. So I think her thing is them hoffers, because their last name is Hoffer.

I think we've talked about them Hoff.

I think we have. And she. They. She and her husband are, like, incredible. Just if you believe in angels on their angels honor. Like, I fully am. Like, you are supposed to be here for these kids.

Yes.

Her name is Cindy, and they are just, like, the kindest seeming people.

And they take babies.

They take newborns. Like, she has taken newborns that are literally, like, hours old. Like, literally hours old. But she is like. And she treats them like. Like you would treat your own newborn. And it's just like she. And she, like, never shows their faces. No, she respects their privacy, even as newborns. You know what I mean? Like, no matter what. And I think they. She also has a podcast.

Oh, does she?

And it's called mom's the word.

Mom's the word.

And it's a podcast with her friend.

Oh, I want to listen to this.

Yeah. So it's called mom's the word. I want to start listening to it.

Because I just like.

And you can follow, like, her on Instagram or on TikTok. I think it's them hoffers is their thing.

And you can donate to, like, I think. I think she has, like, a link tree. And you can donate, like, Amazon things.

To, like, just help with, because she's always, like, stocking up on things because she takes kids at, like, babies at, like, a moment's notice and at every age. So she's got kind of a stockpile of supplies to be ready for whatever.

Which, obviously, she needs to replenish every now and again.

And I came across her for the first time when I saw, like, I was just flicking through my for you page, and it was her before. She was about to receive a newborn infant in the middle of the night, and I just, like, couldn't stop watching her.

I remember when you found her.

Oh, my God. Like, and she was just, like, so lovely.

Probably like a year or so ago. Yeah, I remember. Yeah.

But, yeah, so that. That just bummed me out so much that I was like, I need a happy.

Like, there's good people because there's so.

Many good foster parents.

I mean, you good ones hope that, like, they were good to the kids.

I hope so.

I didn't find anything to say, but they were. But I don't know. But their. Their contract with Idaho Health and welfare ran out in June of 1987, so something happened wherever maybe they were like, hey, we missed that. One of you is a convicted murderer, so. But, yeah. Now, going back to the unfortunate murder of Preston Murr, given the state of his remains, the autopsy obviously took more than 10 hours to thank God.

I can't even fathom what that room looked like.

According to the medical examiner, Preston Murr's cause of death was a single gunshot wound to his head from a. 357 caliber handgun. But the doctor noted that Preston had sustained additional gunshot wounds, including one in his shoulder. But because of the condition of the remains and the amount of time that they'd been submerged in water, also, it was difficult to determine if there was any other significant trauma to the body, but they were able to say that there was two gunshots. Now, although investigators were fairly certain that Daniel Rogers had committed the murder, it wasn't until they interviewed Preston's girlfriend that the rest of the puzzle kind of came together. According to his girlfriend, after the threatening phone call that he got at his sister's apartment, he called Daniel Rogers and Darren Cox, who, like, seemed to be at the. I don't know if they were, like, friends. Friends, yeah, they seemed to be, like, they're around acquaintances at the very least. You know, like, they know each other. And he believed they would know who threatened him and what he should do about it, and obviously felt, like, safe going to them. So they met at a local convenience store where the cashier recalled seeing Preston use the payphone while holding a wooden baseball bat.

The three men then returned to Preston's sister's apartment and discussed the fact that several guns had been stolen from Daniel Rogers house. I think there was, like a lot of crime going on this circle, obviously. So Preston told Daniel that he knew where they might be, where those stolen guns might be. And after all, after that, all three of them drove around Boise for hours looking for the house where Preston thought the weapons would be, but they just couldn't find it. So he called his girlfriend and he said they were going back to Daniel Rogers house on Linden street. Now, investigators theorize that a little after midnight, Preston and Daniel got into some kind of argument where Preston was shot in the shoulder. And then as he attempted to flee the house, he went to Clinton sparks door, where he left that bloody handprint. But unfortunately, Daniel and daring caught up with him and dragged him back to the house, leaving that long trail of blood in the street that, as you remember, led right to Daniel Rogers door.

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Now, once they got him back inside, they believe Daniel Rogers shot Murr in the back of the head. And then he and Darren dismembered Preston's body, and they placed his remains in 13 trash bags, which they then dumped in three different locations across Boise. After they disposed of the remains, they went back to the house and attempted to clean up the crime scene. Yeah, I think outside, like, they hosed down some stuff outside.

It's really lazy business.

I don't know what they did inside. Maybe they were very tired after the outside. Yeah, but that accounted for the neighbor witnessing Daniel hosing down his car, the yard, and the front porch. So, in late July, the Ada county prosecutor, Greg Bauer, which I feel like we've encountered another case with him. It sounded like a very familiar Greg Bauer. Greg Bauer, yeah. But Greg Bauer filed an additional charge of assault against Daniel Rogers for his role in yet another violent crime, the beating of a man named James McMillan, which he had been accused of committing, along with his friend James Miller. So they just. They found that and added that charge to.

They were just like, you know what?

You also did this. Yeah. I think in, like, interviewing people in.

His life, it probably came up, and they were like, let's pile these.

Exactly.

Keep him in here as long as we can.

Well, I think they probably saw, like, oh, weird that he murdered a man, his friend, by, shot in the head and got out in five years. So by the end of the month, Daniel Rogers was arraigned on three separate charges. One for the drug possession with intent to distribute, one for the assault on Miller, and one for the first degree murder of Prestonmer. And he pleaded not guilty on all counts. At a preliminary hearing held in early September, multiple people testified about what they witnessed on the night of Preston's murderous, including testimony from multiple detectives who relayed what Darren Cox had told them about the night of the murder. Cause he sang like a canary.

Yeah, of course.

According to the Boise detective Dave Smith, when the upper torso was thrown in the river, it started floating. Cox was directed by Mister Rogers to retrieve it and take it to the foothills. Detective Smith testified. After his arrest, Cox, quote, broke down and said he wanted to tell me the truth, but then later became concerned about his confession. Detective Smith continued. He was worried about what he told me, worried about what was gonna happen to him.

I mean, should be.

Yeah. Which is like, you should.

Yeah.

You should give up whatever information you have about somebody's murder.

You should also be worried.

But now you gotta be scared because.

You'Re gonna face the consequences and you're.

Both gonna go to prison together.

Yeah.

So good luck with that. But according to Smith, Darren Cox later led investigators to a local dumpster where he disposed of Preston Murr's upper torso and multiple other items related to the murder. Detective Smith said the stench was very prevalent. There was a lot of blood, two shoes, as well as gloves that had blood on them. And further, we found one sock just like all his stuff, just thrown in.

A dumpster with part of his torso.

With part of him. And he's 21 years old.

Yeah, that's a baby.

He has whole life ahead of him. Daniel Rogers lawyers Emil Mishin and John Adams objected to the inclusion of Cox's statements to the police, but that was overruled by the judge, who was like, no, I'm pretty sure that's valuable, pertinent info, but thanks. Yeah, that's a direct quote. The defense also requested that the judge close the hearing and trial to the media, with a member of the defense telling a reporter, I can't even imagine how bad it's going to be if the media sits in on this. But regardless of their concerns, the judge said, nah, I kept it open.

Oh.

Denied the request.

Oh, shit.

In the months leading up to the trial, the defense team tried again and again to get the trial moved to a new county. And at one point, they even moved for a mistrial after the prosecutor, Greg Bauer, quote, told jurors that Rogers was in police custody on other charges when he was arrested. And Murr's death, according to Emile Mishan Bowers, quote, clearly violated the court's ruling and forever tainted the jury panel. But the judge disagreed and declined the motion. There was like, a lot of fuck shit going on, and I love that.

This judge is just like, no, no, it's fine.

Daniel Rogers trial finally started in March. In early March of 1988. In his opening statement, Bauer gave the jury a brief history of his criminal history, despite the judge explicitly disallowing such information and presented the state's theory that at some point after the three men had gone back to Daniel's house, Daniel and Preston argued over drugs, and Daniel shot Preston to death. The reference to the previous criminal charges, impending drug charges, obviously were objected to by the defense. Yeah, they immediately again moved for a mistrial. They were hoping so desperately for a mistrial in this case.

Hope and wish and pray.

But guess what? That was rejected by George Cary.

He's not. No, he only knows.

No, he's not here. Among the various witnesses who testified on behalf of the prosecution were multiple police officers, multiple crime scene technicians, who explained the evidence that was discovered from the blood in the street to the evidence also collected inside the house. Officer Mike Majors explained to the jury what the search team had discovered on their initial search of the home, which was the gun, ammunition, and an ax, which Daniel Rogers buried in the garden next to the house.

Oh, my God.

Obviously that was used. Similarly, Boise crime lab technician Darla Shaver presented irrefutable fingerprint evidence that was collected from the house, including prints on the gun and the very bullets that killed Preston Merch.

Oh, shit.

Similarly, even though DNA testing was unavailable to them at the time, the technicians were able to determine all the blood that they found in the house on the street. And the ax was from the same person with type o blood, which was a match for Prestonmer.

Damn. Look at them.

I know. And I think it's. That's why I do love when we cover cases that are, like, not super modern.

Because you have to work.

They really do.

It's not that I'm saying people now don't have to work.

No, of course they have a.

People now do have a lot more at their disposal to solve these crimes. Digital footprints and cameras everywhere and DNA. All these, you know, familial DNA and all this fun stuff. That is great. And that's what we want. But that's why we are always saying, like, the older cases are just like, they're fascinating to see how they come to the conclusion, because they have to be so creative.

And you have, like, when you have DNA, it makes or breaks a case.

Yeah.

Think about, like, you had to make or break a case without DNA, because that wasn't even an option.

Yeah.

Like, it's. It's just crazy to think about. And 1987 doesn't even sound like that long ago, but to think that, like, wow, they didn't even have DNA testing.

Yeah.

Like, obviously, it was, like, in its infancy. They were working on it, but just that they didn't have it at their disposal yet.

It's crazy.

It is. Crime lab technician Wally Baker also testified that the bullet removed from Prestonmer's skull was a match for one of the slugs pulled from the doorframe at the scene. And both of those came from Daniel Rogers 357 Magnum revolver. And so they asked whether two identical guns from the same manufacturer could produce similar results. They wanted to see, like, oh, maybe.

We can get something.

Get something here. But Baker said even consecutively made barrels are different, meaning every gun, which I didn't know this, and I thought it was interesting. Every gun that comes off an assembly line is unique in some identifiable way, which is how they could conclusively say that both bullets came from Daniel's gun.

Yeah. The inside of a gun barrel has almost, like, its own fingerprint. Really? When the bullet passes through, it's gonna leave marks that you won't find on another gun.

I never knew that.

Yeah.

That's so interesting.

Yeah. Isn't that interesting?

Yeah. How did you know that?

Just, like, I took a ballistics class in college once.

Cool.

Like, forensic science had ballistics as part of it.

That's cool. Yeah, I feel like that'd be very interesting.

It was.

Sometimes I'm like, wow, I really wish I paid attention in college or, like, did something like this, you know?

Well, that's the thing. It was like something I was really interested in, so I liked it.

Yeah, I just wanted to be a teacher back then. And then I said, I don't know if I want to do that, actually. No. Then I said, I think I want to do hair. But anyway, when it came time for the defense to present their case, they offered a pretty simple, but also very questionable explanation. They said, daniel Rogers didn't kill Preston Murr. Darren Cox did.

Oh, there you go. You might as well try to give it a shot, you know?

I think that was pointed at the other guy thing they could have done at that point.

Literally all they have.

So, according to Daniel Rogers, who took the stand in his own defense. Interestingly.

Good idea.

He couldn't have participated in this murder or this dismemberment, because he had an extreme phobia of blood. That's for real.

I'm sorry, what?

Guys, I know you think I did this, and I know that, like, these bullets were shot from my gun and everything, but I didn't. I have a gun, but I would never shoot anything because I can't see a bleed, because I'm so scared of blood.

Blood gives me the ick, so I can't. I'm like, blood makes me go, oh, you shot. That's why I couldn't have done this.

You shot your friend in the head and served time for that already.

Yeah.

Like, when you shoot someone in the head, I'm willing to bet that's pretty bloody.

I gotta know. In their, like, pre trial stuff, when they're all sitting in the head, like, he pitched that idea or somebody gave him that idea.

They said, good.

Good. And they all said, good idea. Yeah, let's. Let's have you do that.

He literally said, direct quote, I can't stand the sight of blood. I felt like I was gonna throw up. Whoa. And he said he had an extreme phobia. Not just a phobia, an extreme phobia.

I, you know, I doubt it.

Yeah, you gotta be quicker, though.

I'm just gonna go out and say, I doubt it.

I gotta. I'm like the man in the.

Is that the commercial?

State commercial? You gotta be quicker than that. That's what I would've. Somebody should have just, like, called upon that man to go, you gotta be quicker. You gotta be quicker than not. That's ridiculous.

That's. Honestly, that. That is.

He said, guys, this is our best bet.

That's reckless. I got some reckless behavior.

I'm freed of blood. I couldn't have done this.

That's reckless testimonial behavior.

Tell them there's no way it was me. Phobias.

Bloods.

Makes me go, like, you want to throw up? Like what? You dismembered a man's body. Are you fucking kidding? He's the worst. Now, during several hours of testimony, Danielle Rogers explained to the jury that it was Darren Cox who had gotten in a fight with Preston while the two were smoking some weed in the basement. And he said he heard. He wasn't even there. He was upstairs.

Yeah.

And he heard the fight escalate from where he was upstairs, so far away. And he said, by the time he made it down to the basement, which was, you know, so far that Darren Cox had pulled out a knife and was threatening Preston. And he said, I decided to break it up. He told the jury they weren't paying me a bit of attention at this point. They were fighting and cussing at each other.

Of course they were.

So he said he fired a warning shot to break up the fight in his own home.

Okay.

If I was katherine, I would be. Ooh, honey.

Yeah.

Warning shots in my house. Uh uh.

I'm gonna get ya.

But he said that only caused Preston murr to rush at him, knocking him to the floor on his way up the stairs to flee. But he said, darren cox then grabbed the gun from him, from Daniel, and chased Preston murr out onto the street, eventually dragging him back into the house. He said, next thing I do is I try to go and stop them. When I got to the kitchen part of the house, I heard the gun go off. So he's like, it's weird. I'm always so away when these things are happening and I just hear them.

It's wild. I'm just, like, never there. But I'm around, so I can hear things.

Yeah.

I'm just never close to it.

I'm never right there.

And it's because I'm so scared of blood.

That's the thing.

I'm worried somebody's gonna, like, scrape themselves somewhere, and I'm just gonna go, ah, yeah.

I just fire warning shots in my own home.

Yeah.

But in his version, events, he was simply an innocent bystander who actually tried to intervene to save Preston Murr. What a hero.

Oh, wow.

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But the problem was that, um, none of the evidence supported his theory or his story. And by all accounts, of the two men, it was Daniel Rogers, not Darren Cox, who was more likely to react with explosive, deadly violence.

But good try.

He had a whole fucking full blown history of it.

He shot his friend in the head once.

To shoot your friend in the head and serve time for it and then kill another man and go up to the jury and to insult them that way by saying, I have a phobia of blood.

So. Couldn't have been me.

Like, so what happened when you shot your friend in the head?

Couldn't be me. Hello? Yeah.

After two weeks of evidence and testimony, the jury deliberated a little more than 6 hours, which I'm like, 6 hours?

It took you that long?

But they found Daniel Rogers guilty of first degree murder.

Good.

Preston's mother, May, told reporters, I'm so happy with the verdict. I'm delighted. And a few weeks later, Daniel Rogers returned to the court and was sentenced to life in prison by Daniel. Rightfully so. Now, based on the outcome of Daniel Rogers trial, which named him as the shooter, Darren Cox retracted his original plea of not guilty and decided to make a deal with the district attorney to plead guilty to charges being an accessory to a felony and aggravated assault. In exchange for his plea, he got a sentence of five years in prison and a fine of $10,000.

My God.

I just want to reiterate that this man helped his friend kill somebody and dismember their body to the point where it had to fill 13 trash bags.

Yeah, like, come on.

And he got five years in prison and a fine.

Wow.

That's bullshit. That is, indeed. But in his version of events, he said he didn't know what was happening until after the assault began. And after that, Daniel Rogers threatened his life, telling him, you're either with me or you're against me. And he interpreted that to mean that Daniel would also kill him if he didn't assist in disposing of the body.

Damn.

As far as his participation in the murder and mutilation, he said, it was more or less for my own safety.

You know, more or less like, oh.

You dismembered a man for your own safety?

More or less.

If that helps you sleep at night.

It'S the more or less for me.

Yeah. You know, very casual, just offhand.

Yeah.

But in the years since his trial, Daniel Rogers has actually tried to have his verdict overturned and petitioned for a new trial multiple times, claiming, among other things, that the court abused its discretion in revealing his criminal past, and the jury was biased by media attention. But as of now, he has been unsuccessful.

Wow.

Now, the convictions of Daniel Rogers and Darren Cox for the gruesome murder of Preston Murr should have been the end of this tragic story. But for the house on Linden street, it was just the beginning of a new and definitely more macabre status as the murder mansion, Boise's most notorious haunted house.

Ooh.

It's kind of unclear at what point the rumors of the haunting began or who started them, but it actually does turn out that Preston Murr is not the first person who died in that house. In June of 1952, the home's owner, 91 year old birdie Sexton. She died in her home. I know birdie's, like, one of my favorite names. She died of natural causes after living in the house for 44 years. A few years later, in 19, 58, 71 year old John. I think it's Egan also died in that home, followed a year later by 89 year old Ellen Marker.

Damn. This is like the Florida of houses so far.

Yes, it is.

Just like that. Retire.

Yes.

There you go.

It's so true.

But maybe I hope they were all, like, comfortable and happy in their home.

I know. I hope so, too.

Yeah.

And then the next person to die in the house was murdered.

What a testament murder, because before that, it's just, like, super old.

Yeah. People at the end of their lives.

At the end of their lives, dying of natural causes in the home that they. That they live in, assumably love.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, feel comfortable in, but a terrible way to end that.

Then a 21 year old who was brutally murdered and brutally killed, and that was nearly 30 years after Ellen Marker had passed away. Despite the gap in years and decidedly different circumstances of deaths, this group would serve as the basis for the rumors of the haunting. At 08:05 Linden.

I mean, I get it. I would also want a recipe here.

In 2012, local news channel KBOi interviewed the home's new owner, Deann Davis. She hadn't experienced anything unusual herself, but she was well aware of the rumors about her house. She told them, living there, I don't. I really don't feel that I was ever afraid or felt it was haunted. But there are so many stories that everyone else has convinced it is.

Well, maybe you're not afraid because they're, like all happy ghosts. Yeah, exactly.

That's what you would hope.

Yeah.

For the most part, she and her children had no reservations about living in a house where something that tragic had happened. But even they weren't immune to the stories and speculation about the house. One of her daughters said, I feel there's something kind of there and kind of not. When I went into the basement, it was dark and I was scared, and when I went in there, I was like, get me out. Get me out. Because I felt there was something there, and I didn't want to go near it.

I mean. Yeah, I feel like there's got to be some kind of vibe.

Yeah. Even if it's not, like, haunted or.

Like, you know, like, malevolent. You know, it's like.

Right.

It's just a vibe that something's there.

Cuz, like, the energy, I always say the energy, that's dark energy that works out. That's dark sided. That's sinister. Babe, what happened in there? And I feel like that stuff doesn't just, like, go, disappear, you know, dissipate. Exactly. But according to Deanne Davis, from the moment she moved in with her kids in 2008, they were constantly asked by the neighbors and even paranormal enthusiasts if they would ever open the house for tours. Like, it's my literal home. No, that's a.

That's a wild thing to ask someone.

Imagine asking.

Don't ask your neighbors.

Imagine walking up to your neighbor and being like, are you ever gonna, like, open this place up for tours?

Yeah, like, your house is fucked up. You ever think, I have people tromps through it for a couple bucks?

Like, it's like, what? Those are, like, older people died here at the end of their lives, and then a poor young man was brutally murdered. What's there to see?

Yeah, you just want to walk through my house so you can feel if it's creepy.

I'm not good.

What?

I think it's the rumors that really added to everything.

Oh, yeah.

But she said it had a lot of fame that people would want to come by and have a tour of the house. It's, like, third. It's listed, like, third in the United States as haunted houses.

Is it?

I don't. Maybe at that time. As of 2016?

Yeah.

I'm not sure if it still is, but according to the lifelong Boise resident and content creator for Boise radio station 179 Light FM, Michelle Hart said, there are so many rumors about the house, everything from a crazed serial killer who killed multiple people in the home to it being a frat house for Boise State, where brothers frequently saw blood running down the walls.

Oh, we got more of that. Yeah, that's fun.

Stories of a woman dressed in clothes from the 18 hundreds standing in the window. Okay, which is interesting.

None of that makes sense, but no, right?

Nope. She did clarify that the house was actually never used as a BSU frat house.

Good.

But its association with the Mer murder gives it a certain legitimacy and credibility that allows that speculation in the rumors to grow. In the years since Daniel Rogers was sentenced the house has been owned by a handful of people and not a lot of those people put a lot of effort or money into its curb appeal, which kind of only added to the notoriety because it looks a little haunted. Yes. According to Hart, there are multiple vehicles parked on the property. What appears to be trash piled in the second story window, broken windows and debris all over the front porch.

I mean that'll do it.

Yeah, not great. While Hart herself has never gone into the house or onto the property, she's been collecting stories from those who supposedly have. In one story from a young woman named Lacey, her best friend's father owned the house and hired his daughter and some friends to do some yard work and cleaning. And she said we worked there for about a week. Nothing weird ever happened when I was inside, but I did not want to go near the basement. And then others had more detailed experiences. According to one of Hart's respondents, referred to as Dan D. We were upstairs in one of the side bedrooms when we heard someone walk upstairs. Didnt think much of it, thought it was the roommate. But then we heard it again and we never heard anyone go downstairs. Me and my friend Bea went to check it out. We thought it was someone breaking into the house. We checked everything out, dont see anyone. So we go and stand on the porch to let whoever was there know were watching if he comes back. I just thought I was tired until Bea asked me if I was seeing this stuff too.

We figured out that we werent looking for a person. I stepped out into the front yard and look up to the main bedroom upstairs and the window is a big black oily looking thing. I doubt what I'm seeing until it moves back toward the dresser, stops, goes to the door and disappears.

Oh that's creepy. An oily looking thing.

Black oily looking thing. Hate it. Now, like Dan D. Another respondent, Christy, also saw inexplicable things in the windows. She said, when I lived on Leadville when I was a kid, I saw a woman in an upstairs window banging on it. It looked like she was screaming but there were no sounds.

Oh that terrifying, horrifying. That's chilling.

So a lot. For a lot of people. It's like, it seems like people who don't live in the house have experiences, but for those who actually lived in the house, the experiences are much less supernatural and they just have more of like an ominous feeling.

So there it is. It's the vibes.

But yeah there's definitely something there. According to a BSU student who rented a room in the house, the basement was creepy and had a weird feeling to it. We would take people down there to scare them. I never saw any ghosts, but you could tell something wasn't quite right.

And it's the basement.

The basement, which.

Yeah. Which makes sense. Yeah, that's where, like, the really bad shit happened.

Exactly. So whether or not the house is truly haunted is a matter of debate, but for those who are interested in finding out for themselves, they actually might finally have the chance. In the spring of 2024, Mark Iverson, the creator and tour guide of Ida history, began advertising upcoming tours of the house on Linden street. And according to him, he, quote, hit it off with the home's owner, and the two of them are working together on opening the inside of the home for tours. And a portion of the proceeds from the tour will reportedly benefit the preservation of the mansion and the property. Which is nice.

That's good that it'll go back to, like, taking care of the property.

Yeah. Because it sounds like for a long time, the property, like, wasn't being maintained.

Or taken care of, and that's also feeding into all, like, the lore.

Yeah, exactly.

So it's like, that's better.

Yeah, I think so, too.

Wow.

But what a story, huh?

That is a tale.

It's a tale.

I've never heard of that. I never even heard of this place.

Dave suggested it, actually.

Yeah. Dave always comes out with these one things that I'm like, well, shit.

Well, shit, Dave.

Oh, shit, Dave.

Did you end up seeing if it was on a list? Anyway, I looked.

I'm not seeing it on any of the lists I'm looking on, but there's so many lists now.

It could be on another one that I'm like, it.

Who knows which one that person was looking.

Yeah, I looked at one point and I didn't see it, but, yeah, it's.

Really just on, like, Idaho things.

That makes sense. Probably, like, one of the most haunted places in Idaho.

Yeah, for sure. But, wow. What a tale. What a. What a sad, sad tale.

Yeah. I don't know if I would want to go. Poor Preston.

Yeah, that's the thing. Like, what happened at Preston was, like.

So, like, brutal and senseless and that.

He was running down the street trying to get help.

I know.

And, like, those poor people who, like, you know.

Poor Clinton.

Yeah, like, poor Clinton. Like. Like, nobody blames that. You, like, hesitated for a second, like.

No, the right thing and called the police. I mean, they did.

Yeah.

Dispatcher, if anybody failed.

Yeah.

Real, truly, like, that was. Yeah, that dispatcher failed not a great dispatcher moment.

Sorry. Like, poor Clinton. Poor the people who, you know, like, that's. That's rough.

The neighborhood, like, damn. Waking up to that. And your neighborhood just.

If you look it up, it's a big. It is a mansion.

I was just gonna say. Yeah.

Yeah.

It's interesting.

Yeah.

An interesting tale altogether, but in a tragic tale, really scary one.

Yeah.

That is the murder of Preston Burr and the Boise murder mansion. So keep an eye because you might be able to take a tour if you want to.

If that's what you're thinking you want to do.

That's your deal. If you live in Boise.

Yeah.

I love saying Boise.

Boise.

Boise.

It's boise.

I don't know. I just like it.

It's boise, idaho.

I hope you like boise, too, and I hope you keep listening.

I hope you keep it weird, but.

Not so weird that you don't just keep talking like this. I don't know, like this all day now. All right, love you. Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

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In the upcoming episode of Killer Psyche, we will be diving deep into the unfolding case of accused Gilgo beach serial killer Rex Heuerman. Heuerman is awaiting trial for the murder of three women, with many more victims still being linked to him. Now, a recently released tell all bail application goes into unusual details and lengths to keep him locked away, revealing shocking updates about the case. Listen as we take a closer look into the newly revealed evidence and charges, bringing new insight into what we already know about the case and what may have motivated him. Follow killerpsyche on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. You can listen to killer Psyche and more. Exhibit C true crime shows like Morbid and the Kill list early and ad free right now by joining wondery. Plus, check out Exhibit C in the Wondery app for all your true crime listening.