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You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast. Redacted Declassified mysteries is a new podcast hosted by me, Luke LaMana. Each week, I dive into the hidden truths behind the world's most powerful institutions. From covert government experiments to bizarre assassination attempts. Follow redacted on the WNDY app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash.

And I'm Elaina.

And I'm Doug Jones.

And we have a very special episode of Morbid today.

Doug Jones is here, guys. Wow. We're weirdos. We I mean, Doug Jones is an absolute icon, to be perfectly honest. And also we can also say that he is the nicest monster in Hollywood because- 100 %. We have had to reschedule this pod twice because of just various shenanigans that occur. Nicest man ever. Like, truly, if it was going to happen with anyone, I'm glad it happened with Doug. So thank you for being so patient with us.

Oh, and you, me. I love you guys.

No, we love you. We love you. So Doug has breathed life into roles like the Fawn and the Pale Man in Pan's Labyrinth. Those are two of my favorites, like all-time favorites.

So good.

The Amphibian Man in the Academy award-winning film, The Shape of Water. His resume includes the roles of Billy Butcherson, iconic from Hocus Pocus, baron Alphanos on what we do in the Shadows, as well as the titular role in David Lee Fisher's upcoming film, Nosferatu: A Symphony of Horror. We are just so excited to have him on the pod today. So again, thank you so much for joining us.

Oh, thank you. And I can't live up to that introduction. I think we're done here.

You already have.

You've already talked to it. You do every day.

Thank you.

You're We just said, your resume is mighty, like one of the mightiest. We have to ask, how are you able to do all that, to be all that, to personify all that, and still keep your feet on the ground and truly be the That's the nicest monster in Hollywood?

Well, thank you for thinking of me in that manner. I don't deserve it. I love you for that. You do. It's funny. My resume is long, not because I'm really that good. It's just because I'm that old. I've been around a while. My career has happened because of the graciousness and kindness of the creature effects make up people, honestly. If it wasn't for their referrals early on that propelled me to the next project and the next one and the next one, and the next one. I never would have met the wonderful rolodex of directors I have now worked with, including the ever-great Guillermo del Toro. It's because of those early days. When you come to Hollywood land and you're a tall, skinny, goofy actor boy, 6'3, 135 pounds, and you have a background as a mime, and you can also put your legs behind your head. So your resume says contortionist on it. There you go. So that was My first commercial agent's dream. It's like, Okay, we can do so much with this. They submitted me for all kinds of things that were physical tomfoulery and clowning and miming, of course. A lot of those roles that came with that break lockdown also came with a look that needed to be glued on to me.

Those early commercials that I did, the very first commercial I ever did was for Southwest Airlines as a dancing mummy. I love it. How that worked into an airline, I'll never remember. But I think the fares had dropped low enough that I could finally come out of my sarcophagus and go on vacation. I think that's how it worked. Then shortly after that, I booked a commercial for a World of Wonder Toys for a doll commercial, and I was an alien landing in a kid's backyard. I thought I was making first contact because the doll was left out and it was a talking doll. But you push it on the belly, it's like, That tickles, whatever. It was like a funny little, Oh, we're first contact. But it was with... That creature effects makeup designer that made those alien outfits for that commercial, then also was doing the Moonhead for the Mac Tonight campaign for McDonald's.

I remember those so vividly.

Right? It's set to the theme song taken from Mac the Knife, but rebranded for McDonald's as MacTonight. I love it. It's MacTonight. Hey. Yeah. So I ended up booking that job as the Crescent Moonhead guy under this huge heavy mask, also created by Steve I was already getting a taste of, the creature effects world is tight and almost incestuous, and they're very loyal. If they like working with you. The reputation got around town that I'm tall, skinny, move well, and don't complain when there's a lot of stuff on me.

You're lovely to work with.

I guess that's the reputation that got around the creature effects. The referrals happened and snowballed from there. Here we are, 38 years later, and it's with a resume that I never foresaw. I never thought like, I want to be Monsters. I really wanted to be a sitcom star when I started. I wanted to be like a goofy next door neighbor that comes, like on the Dick Van Dyke show.

Oh, I love that.

Or being Kramer on the Seinfeld, the guy who comes in and does something funny and leaves. I had very low aspirations for myself.

You surpassed all of them. Very much.

Thank you. Getting swept up by the creature effects world was a surprise to me, but a happy one that has turned into a career that has been very good to me. When you mentioned the likes of Guillermo del Toro, when you are standing on the stage at the Academy Awards because a movie you were in called The Shape of Water just won best picture. You're there with the entire team accepting the award for best picture. It's an academy best picture with a monster on the cover. This doesn't happen. Yeah, it really doesn't. You happen to be the guy who played that monster. It's surreal moment. You can imagine.

I was going to say, how does your brain wrap around that? Just being on the Academy Awards stage must be like, what?

You're looking out a sea of the most famous faces you've ever seen in your life, and they're all looking back at you with adoration in their eyes. It's like this moment doesn't happen to just anybody. No. It doesn't.

That's a pinch moment for sure.

Totally.

I believe the alien should abduct me now. This is insane.

That's a good time to die happy.

Truly, you're like, I'm good. It's funny that you brought up the MacTonight character. Oh, yeah. One, I vividly remember those commercials, so that's so funny. But also our researcher for Morbid, our friend Dave, his father, Jim White, actually directed a lot of those commercials. So we had It's this weird one degree of separation. Isn't that nuts? What are the chances? Isn't that weird?

Yeah, it's awesome. I remember us talking about this a long time ago when he brought up like, Oh, my dad directed those things.

We were like, Oh, my God. I used to love those commercials. Commercials, and then we found out you were back tonight. We were like, What?

If you can get a message back to him that I love him dearly to this day.

Of course, we definitely will.

I love that. Thank you.

We spoke about Guillermo del Toro, and I have to ask ask because I'm a huge Guillermo del Toro fan. I think he's so brilliant, and he seems like just one of... He's one of those people that he seems like one of the sweetest, kindest, just like, genuine person. What is it? Is he that person? What What's it like to work with him?

Yes. They say, Don't meet your heroes, but he is one you would absolutely love to meet because he will live up to all of your dreams and expectations of who he is. I love that. You can imagine how often I get asked, What's it like to work with Guillermo del Toro? You got to tell me that. Oh, yeah. Because you're not alone in that love for him. I hear such love for him everywhere I go. When you work with him, you're doing two things. You are under the tutelage of one of the most visionary, brilliant artists in the world ever. You're also hanging out with a funny friend who is the self-effacing, hilarious, and sassy as can be.

I love that he's sassy.

Oh, no, he's got the best sense of humor. In fact, he's a director that understands his actors better than any director normally does. He directs all of us on the same project in different ways, depending on our personality and what we'll respond to, because he's already sussed all that out. Wow. He's brilliant with the human spirit and psychology and all of it. With the set of buttons on us that he now knows what to push to get what reaction out of us on the day, he'll direct like... From the Hellboy movies, Ron Perlman, Selma Blair, and Doug Jones, very different personalities. So we all got different types of direction from him. Oh, that's brilliant. Now, with me, it's very simple. He knows if he can make me laugh, I'll do whatever he says. So One of my favorite examples was from Hellboy 2: The Golden Army. There was one long tracking shot that he wasn't going to cut away to anything. He had no coverage to cut away to. So I had to do a lot of physical business while this one camera circled me, and I had to be done with the business by the time the camera stopped.

Well, I wasn't. The first take of this, it's like I was going slow and methodical and milking these moments visually. And by the time the camera stopped, it just stayed there for a while, and I wasn't done yet. Finally, Guillermo del Toro, finally, he yells, Cut. Dougie, you're boring me to tears. And that's all he had to say. I was like, Got it. I'll go in a different direction. I heard you. So take two work. I love him dearly. We do have a shorthand like that.

I love that. That makes me so happy because it truly is one of those things that you hear that all the time, Joe being your heroes, and I'm like, not Guillermo.

You can meet Guillermo.

There you go. Meet Guillermo.

Guillermo.

Guillermo. I love it. One of the big things that's happening right now is that we are in the final season of what we do in the Shadows. Yeah. Biddersweet, right? It That's on the 21st. You obviously play Beren Alphanaus. Amazing character. So good.

You are like-Thank you. Chef's kiss.

What is it? Has it been emotional to say goodbye to that character in this show?

Yes. By the way, the baron loves you very much, too, my darling. Don't worry about it. Amazing. Playing baron F and S has been the joy of my life. After this 38-year career that I have behind me with more coming ahead, of course, but looking back, it's like I've looked forward to going to work a very handful of times over all of the jobs that I've done because I know that a lot of them are very physically taxing, and I know it's ahead of me, and I'm going to have to go through the process and the thing. I'm the thing. Or I have a ton of science fiction dialog that I have to blurt out in a monolog with technically talking it. I love them but dread them at the same time, if that makes any sense. Yeah, definitely. What we do in the shadows? Oh, my gosh. I I look forward to it with like, I can't wait to get there. I love that. Because when you're doing something that's all for the funny and you are taking vampire tropes and sending them up and just like, marking all of it. The best. In this age of comedy that we're in now, everyone's being so careful to not offend.

Well, our show does nothing but offend everybody.

That's what makes it great.

It's got an old school vibe to it because of that.

We love an equal opportunity to offend her.

That Totally. Let's just make fun of everybody and we're all taking care of them.

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What the baron has also afforded me was, I've always had a love of vampires. They've always intrigued me, and I've wanted to play a classic vampire. Years ago, if you would ask me, what's my dream role, it would have been what we're going to talk about next. It would be Nosferatu, right? Of course. The dark mystery of him and the horrific look of him. Yes. Well, when I was offered the role as baron Affanas, and what we do in What We Do in the shadows, he was a parody of Nosferatu, in a way. He's the vampire that comes from the old world. He's sent all of his minions out to North America to conquer the new world, and they never made it out of Stanton Island, so he stays there with them now. Like, whatever, right?

No, we'll just do that.

No, I love the... Now that I've done the Nosferatu: A Symphony of Horror movie, and what we do in the Shadows, I've had both the light and the dark of this type of vampire character.

That's my favorite part is that you've touched both sides of the spectrum on the vampire scale.

It's so perfectly. It's so good. It's so good.

Oh, thank you. And speaking of... I was just thinking about how you were saying, some days you would be like, Oh, God, I have to go I'd have to spew out all this dialog that's crazy, or I have to go in the makeup chair. Do you do anything specific? Because I know you probably had to sit in that makeup chair for a lot of these roles for a long time. Do you have to do anything specific to get yourself in a vibe to be able to do that?

Well, here's the weird thing about me is that I don't need to do anything specific. Unlike most people, I don't get antsy, I don't get stir-crazy. I can sit still and stare at a wall for hours and be completely entertained. What is that like? I know. That's amazing. Because that's the number one question I get from people is like, I would go crazy if I just sit still for that long. It's like, No, that's the easy part of my day. The makeup artist are doing all the work during that time, and I get to just sit there and go over my dialog if I need to, or we listen to music or we tell jokes or whatever. It's a great time of day. But now that it's on and you have extra heat, weight, stickiness to your person and you have to perform in it all day and keep your energy up while wearing extra layers of stuff and trying to not stick to your chair when you're taking a break or whatever it is, that's the long part of the day for me.

I can imagine.

Yeah.

Because that would destroy me. I'm so heat sensitive that I feel like as soon as I started sweating, I'd be like, Get it off.

I know. I delineate between suits and makeups. A monster suit would be something that you slip in to zip up the back. It might involve a head that slips over your head, snaps down to the neck, and then there's mechanics that are puppeteered in the face. That's a suit. Makeup would be either glued or painted onto my real person. When you're in a suit, there's nothing quite like that feeling of... Now, it goes on much faster. You're maybe 30 minutes into the whole thing and you're ready to perform. But once it's on, it is... They're usually very heavy and very hot. You feel that of sweat going down the back of your neck and you can't get to it. Or you feel that trickle of sweat coming down the side of your face. Is it going to hit my eye? I don't know. Is it going to go, It's on the cheekbone now. I guess we make whatever.

It's in my mouth now.

Yeah, because salty sweat in the eye, you don't want to do that while you're on camera.

Not great.

Not ideal.

I give you credit.

I think the heaviest thing I've ever worn is my wedding dress, and even that at the end of the night, I was like, Get this off of me.

I was like, Seriously.

People who just wear wigs on camera. It's an itchy mess, and they want them off. I totally get it.

Oh, yeah. Wearing a wig for Halloween. I'm like, Why did I choose to do this? It's awful.

You end up ripping it off at the end of the night. Right. Well, Going back to our love ofampires, your love and our love, we are so excited, completely stoked for the premiere of David Lee Fisher's Nosferatu: A Symphony of Horror. That is premiering on October 18th on Apple TV+. So everybody go check it out. But this is a very different approach to remaking a classic film. It's shot in black and white. It's so hauntingly beautiful. It's gorgeous. We got to get a little sneak peek. Thank you for the screener.

It is delicious looking.

It's beautiful. So can you tell us a little bit, do you know anything about how they really created the film?

Yeah. Thank you for setting that up so beautifully, by the way, because it's a very confusing time for the title Nosferatu, because there is another one right on our tail coming out Christmas, directed by the wonderful Robert Eggers and starring the brilliant Bill Skarsgaard in the same role I'm playing. Now, he might be younger, hotter, and more famous than me, but I think we can have both, can't we?

Absolutely. We all want both. Okay, good.

We do. Anyway, and I'm going to watch theirs with every bit of glee as I meant watching on my own. Ours, though, what makes ours a little bit different is it seemed foreseen the same movie as the silent film that made it a classic in the first place. I got to get into not only Max Schreck's role, but I also was in his environment digitally reproduced from the original film. That's so cool. David Lee Fisher, our director, is a technical wizard who made this all magic happen. It might be something as much as when I was out, let's say, when Nosrata was outside walking around with his coffin under one arm. That would be a complete 100% green screen set with marks on the floor to match exactly where I needed to turn, stop, walk up steps, whatever. That we would match then with the laid in frame from the movie. Then the least amount of green screen used might be Ellen's bedroom when I finally get into her and I'm finally reaching the pinnacle, the object of my desire. She's the dessert of all the meals I've had over my vampire years. Well, her bedroom scene was walls built, furniture in the room, and the window, though, was green behind it so that they could put in the original movie window behind that.

That's amazing. There's a green screen element to every scene of the movie. Yeah. That does bring old and new together with a very ethereal dream-like feel to it. But also, that's why we filmed ours in black and white so that we could match the old movie more seamlessly. Also with a dialog and sound that fleshes out that silent film story. It is seen for seeing the same story, but now with dialog, you get to hear more of it.

It really does have that ethereal quality to it. It's almost like, I don't even know if this is the right word. It feels like When you watch it, it's this pretty veil. That's a great word. That is. I don't know why. It just feels gauzy.

I love it. She's a novelist. It makes sense.

Yeah, it makes perfect sense.

Well, you mentioned before that this is a role you hoped you would play someday. How was it playing this role? Was it completely surreal?

Yes. He had been my bucket list character for many years. I think I always had a love and fascination with vampires anyway. Of Of course, I loved Billy Lugosi as Dracula. Oh, yeah. And of course, all the other Draculas over the years that have been played by various wonderful actors. But there's a certain sexiness about Dracula that I thought, I don't know that Doug Jones can pull that off.

I think you totally can.

Well, bless you. But then there's also the teenager sparkly ones from that other franchise that I'm like, I'm never going to fit that demographic. That's okay.

That's totally fine.

But the bucktooth pointy-eared, scraggly one, yes. Him I get.

That's why no, it's hard to...

But what I also love about his hideous look is that he's probably not aware that he looks that bad now. He's a count, right? So he's of no In his younger day, when he was a human, he probably was quite fetching. Absolutely. He probably was respected by the community and who knows what story got him, what decisions he made, what position he put himself in to become a vampire. Now, decades, centuries later, who knows how old he is, he's living with his choice, right? Yeah. Is he ever satisfied? Is this a satisfying lifestyle for him? That's why what I loved about him was his yearning for Ellen, the character that I'm after in the movie. By the way, Ellen was played by Sarah Carter. Sarah Carter and I star together as series regulars on Falling Skies about 10 years ago. Oh, my God. Oh, wow. It's because of that relationship that I said, Hey, Sarah, would you be a deer? She's like, Oh, my gosh, I love this. That's how we got her into the movie. She's like, Oh, play Ellen?

Okay.

She's like, Is she not a movie star? Oh, my God.

Ridiculous.

Yeah, ridiculous. Yeah, incredible. Every angle. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I totally know. So her husband in the movie, Young Thomas, was played by Emrease Cooper. He's a series regular on Coronation Street now. It's a very British... He's from Great Britain. So his accent was legit.

Oh, I love that.

So he's sent on this journey by his real estate boss who goes crazy. By the way, his real estate boss was the character Noc, played by an actor named Edgar Allan Poe. Do you believe that? Stop it. I know.

Destined to. Never heard him. Is that perfection?

Should I know that name?

I don't know what from. Noc sends young Thomas on this journey to fetch me in Transylvania because I'm interested in buying a piece of property in their home town right across the street from them. Because something about me... Ellen has been calling to me from afar, and I haven't really known who she is yet or what she is, but I know that I need her. He comes to me to sign paperwork for this real estate deal, and while he's with me, he's getting creeped out by all that I am, what I look like. I love those scenes when we're at the dinner table and he's eating food and I'm not, and I'm just staring at him.

I love that so much.

It's so fun.

There was so much dialog happening in those quiet, silent moments where he's very uncomfortable and I'm very comfortable.

Too comfortable, exactly.

One of my favorite moments, too, was I'm about to sign the paper paperwork, and I pause for a minute and say, Do you have the time? And he hands me his pocket watch in which was a photograph of Ellen, his wife. And that was like, done, done, done. That was the moment that Count Orlok realizes That's the object of my desire. That's who I've been dreaming of. That's who I've been wanting all this time. So he rushes and signs the paperwork, and now it's a done deal. So what I love, too, about this story is that once he gets to the town and takes residency across the street from Ellen and Thomas, he doesn't go right for her right away. He peers at her through the window like a creep. Of course. Other people in town are dying all around them. They think there's an epidemic that's there's some a virus wiping out the city. So he He saves her for dessert, right? That's so chilling. And by the time he gets to her, this is the ultimate. This is what the moment his whole life as a vampire has been leading to this moment.

It's his magnum opus.

Right. I love that David Lee Fisher left the camera on me for a long time while I am on her neck. It's very sensual and very disgusting all at the same time. It's beautifully horrific.

Exactly what he should be. Beautifully horrific.

Beautifully horrific. Great way to say Then when he comes to and realizes that the sun is up and it's coming through the window, he's like, he overdid it. He overindulged in his addiction. I think that's when he had his come to light moment. I wanted to add some humanity into him because watching the silent film, of course, it's very dramatic. Max Schreck struck that pose when he got in front of the window with a hand on the heart and a hand toward the window like, No, not the sun. I wanted to strike that iconic pose as I tried to strike a lot of his iconic poses throughout the film, but give some backstory meaning and some heart and soul of why he got into that pose.

I love that.

This show is sponsored by Better Help. This month is all about gratitude, so I want to shout out the people in this room, Elaina and Mikey, and from afar, Dave, because without the four of us, this show just wouldn't exist. I love the four of us. But guess what? There's another person we don't get to thank enough ourselves. I just thanked me, but it's sometimes hard to remind ourselves that we're trying our best to make sense of everything in this crazy world, and Because we're in this crazy world, it's not always that easy. Here's a reminder to send some thanks to the people in your life, including yourself. I think one of the best things you can do to show gratitude towards yourself is dedicate an hour of your week to therapy just to talk through all the stuff you got going on. Everybody's got so much stuff going on, so talk it through with a therapist. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. All you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist.

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So this moment in the bedroom, I'm thinking, wow, I had my dessert. I've reached the pinnacle of my desires. Where do I go from here? Is there anything left? And did it really truly satisfy me, or am I just a pathetic being? And do I have any reason to live beyond this? So when the sun is coming in the window, he knows he's going to burn. Do I take my chances and try to get out of the room and pass the window? Sure. And if I die, you know what? Maybe I deserve it by now. I think that's the backstory I gave him, that maybe Max Shrek, I'm not sure, did or not.

It translates definitely.

It really does.

No, thank you. Thank you so much. That's very, very sweet. Beautiful and wonderful. Intimidating to play this role, too, because there's no way to not compare me to Max Shrek and also to all the other Nosferatu's, including Will and Bifoe's Brilliant Shadow of the Vampire version. And of course, Bill Skarsgaard coming. I'm sure he's going to be delicious in whatever he does with it, too. Definitely.

But yeah, I could see why that would be an intimidating role to take on for sure.

I love that you put your own spin on it, though, and that you put your own feelings into those poses and everything because it really does translate.

Yeah, you left your mark on Nosferal, too.

Thank you so much. I was so happy that our director, too, was on board with making sure we hit all those iconic notes, like when he's in the bowels of the ship in transit. The captain comes down and sees him standing up from his coffin stiff as a board, right? So good. That took some engineering, by the way. I bet.

I thought we did it.

Then also that famous shadow going up the stairs when he's on his way to Ellen's bedroom. So spooky. Right? Yeah. Then, of course, like I said, the grabbing of the heart and the hand out to the sun when it's time.

That one's my favorite. Classic. I love it.

Classic. Classic moment.

It's awesome. Going back to the look you mentioned, does he even know that he looks like this? What was the costuming like? Was it very heavy on prosthetics? How was that for you?

Good question. As far as prosthetics go, again, I've played creatures that are rubberized from head to toe. This was not that. It was head and hands, thank heaven. With a very specific wardrobe to match the original wardrobe. There was a bit of a bit of a pump built into the back because he was hunched over in the original film. I think I probably stand a little straighter than Max Schreck did, but they still did have some extra built into that pump area of the back. Oh, okay. With this long, double-breasted coat. That was gorgeous. The prosthetics, though, I wore more prosthetics than the other Nosferatus have. Really? That have played in more… including… Max Tuck was very smooth. It was basically his face with a bald cap and some ears and some funny swaps of hair placed just so. I was more wrinkled and elderly-looking, which was a design choice. Here's the fun backstory of that look. Michael Azald, a very talented artist who owns the creature shop Spectral Motion, that did the Hellboy Movies with me and the Silver Surfer movie with me. He, as a garage project at home, started sculpting a Nosferatu decades ago on a life cast of me, My Bust.

Oh, wow. He added clay to me and started sculpting what he thought Nosferatu might look like in his dreams. And he came up with that.

That's amazing.

Once it was done, they had prosthetic pieces made of it. And just as a test, fun makeup test, one day, he called up and said, Would you ever want to put this on just for a Saturday afternoon fun photo shoot? I said, Yes. Casual.

It's manifesting. Yeah. Right.

We went and did that. This is, again, a good 10 years before this movie came up.

Oh, this is my movie.

Yeah. When David Lee Fisher, who I'd worked with before on a movie much like this, we did a reimagining, a remix of The cabinet of Dr. Caligari, that 1919 silent film that we made in two of the same thing, old movie, new movie, put together with dialog, sound, musical score. David Lee Fisher calls me up one day and says, Hey, if you don't want to do this, I won't do it, but I have this idea. Would you want to ever do Nosferatu like we did Caligari? I was like, You have been reading my dreams. Yes. I said in that same phone call, Oh, my gosh, I know exactly what makeup I want to wear doing this, too. Wow. We went back to Michael Izzaldi, and his design is what Mo Meinhardt and Ben Ploum and then put on me on the day. It took about four hours a day. Those four hours also included appliances on the back of my hands to make them more bony and vainy, and also to add those long, delicious talons to my- Those nails. The acrylics. Fingernails, yes.

The acrylics.

I love it. Talk about Lee Presson nails. That was a... Yeah.

That is so cool. It was like you were manifesting this 10 years in advance. That's amazing.

Yeah, For real.

Isn't that Wack-A-Doodle? I know. I love it. Just love it.

See, it was meant to be.

Yeah, that's crazy.

It really was. So speaking of all these vampire things, because vampires are so much fun and it's spooky season and Nosferatu, a symphony of horrors coming. Why not talk about a funny, stinky vampire legend really quick, we thought?

Okay, I want to hear this.

All right. I've got a stinky vampire for you.

Okay.

This case of vaporism brings us all the way back to Pinch Silesa, a section of Poland. It was the yield days of 1582. That is yield. It's yield. Johannes Kunzis was out with one of his horses. They were all trying to repair the horse's shoe. It was him and a couple of assistants. Now, something went wrong where the horse got upset and actually ended up kicking Kunzis, knocking him unconscious. Also, I swear that's his name, and I'm not swearing right now.

Yeah, conscious went unconscious.

Yeah, exactly. So luckily, like I said, he wasn't working out there alone. So they picked him up, they brought him inside, laid him down in bed. Now, he slipped in and out of consciousness in the following days. But in the moments where he was with it awake, some dark, dark secrets started to come out.

Uh-oh.

Conscious was very, very worried about dying because the life he led wasn't really the purest. He was a well-respected alderman in a small community, but he admitted while laying on his death bed that his life had been full of various sins. Some even claimed that he admitted to making a deal with the devil.

That's a big one. That's a huge one.

That's a big one, yeah.

That'll send you straight to the E.

Life-altering.

The story goes that the deal was made around the same time that conscious' young son, excuse me, disappeared. And many believe that he actually sold his son to the devil for money, which right after his son disappeared, he fell into a great sum of.

That's the biggest sin you could do, I feel, selling your son to the devil.

That's damning evidence, too, isn't it?

That's very damning evidence. The timing is suspect.

The literal receipts are That's the sin of all sins. Money has exchanged hands.

Exactly. Hands, claws, whatever have you. Whatever happens. While he laid dying in his bed, he would call out, Woe is me? How do I burn him? And I'm all on fire. He would repeat over and over again that his sins were bigger than all of the world besides. We all agree.

Everyone said, oh.

They said, You sold your son to the devil, conscious. What did you expect?

Yeah, that tracks. Yeah.

So the night that conscious actually did die, he did eventually come to his death.

The great unconscious is what he became. The great unconscious.

That was great.

Thank you for that.

No problem. So the night that he did die, his son, his oldest son that didn't get sold to the devil, was sitting in the room with him and later said that a black cat slinked into the room, jumped upon conscious' chest, and started scratching at his face feverishly, almost like the cat was trying to erase him from this world, the son said. And this was right before he died. That's poetic. He wasn't completely dead yet. It is not dead yet. It is not dead yet. His son said that as the cat suddenly disappeared from the room, conscious breathed out his last breath.

So he did erase him from the world.

He did. The cat said, My job here is done. You're okay.

He licked his paws and left the room, right?

Yeah, he said, You're welcome.

He said, Peace out, you guys. So the moment that conscious did die, a great storm was said to have started, and it raged on all throughout his funeral. Henry Moore wrote, No sooner conscious was dead, but a great tempest arose, which raged Most at his very funeral, there being such impetus storms of wind and snow that it made men's bodies quake, their teeth chatter in their heads. But soon as he was interred, all of a sudden it was calm.

Damn.

Isn't that beautiful?

That is beautiful.

Is that okay, Henry? Yes. Yeah. So there were actually a lot of moving pieces surrounding conscious's burial. His friends and family all felt, they had heard of his sins, but they said maybe he was just unconscious and talking crazy. They said, I really think he's a great man, and he deserves to be laid to rest in a hallowed place. So they all got together and pulled their money to make sure that he was buried to the right of the church's altar, which I guess in Yee-old days was the best place to be.

Primo spot.

Primo spot. Like Rockstar parking. Now, apparently, very shortly after he was put to rest there, little splats of blood started showing up on the church's cloth, which was right above where his grave was.

That's so metal.

And listen to this. People around town started claiming that they were seeing conscious roam the streets. That would be well and fine. Cool. Be a ghost, be a specter. But conscious wasn't just a specter. He was a menace to the town and a straight-up criminal. According to occultworld. Com, when conscious started roaming the streets again, he was going wild. His specter, quote, strangled old men, galloped around the house like a horse, wrestled with people. This is my personal favorite. Vomited fire. We said.

That is menacing.

That's menacing. There's more, though. We said, he bought in the church's altar cloth with blood. This is horrible. The heads of dogs against the ground.

Oh, straight to jail.

Straight to jail. Turned milk into blood, drank up supplies of milk, sucked cows dry, threw goats about, devoured chickens, and pulled up fence posts. Just a few of the activities that he was up to.

I love that he got through goats about and also pulled up fence posts. He was like, your fence.

Whilst vomiting fire. Yeah.

Wow. Great. That was his own personal Yeah, exactly.

Calisthenics, right?

Right.

So he was getting all of that. Some of that was not so great. Most of it, you were just like, Okay, conscious. You're getting crazy. This is where it gets dark. He was Also getting very frisky and inappropriate with the women in town. That's so like, conscious. It's so consciousy. Shortly after his death, he was said to have returned to his own home, which neighbors had seen physically shaking in the in the days leading up to this incident. And he supposedly just walked right into his wife's bedroom and demanded that she move over so he could get into bed with her. Whoa. Now, obviously, that would be horrifying enough. But to add insult to injury, this specter conscious had the most foul breath that this woman had ever smelled in her life. Oh, this poor woman. Poor dear. Loses her husband, and he comes back all stanky wanting to get in the bed.

With halitosis, that's Exactly.

The worst. Lost her husband who sold their son to the devil. To the devil, yeah.

And now has come back. She had some issues to work out in therapy, didn't she?

Then he's like, move over. I'd be like, no.

She rode a horse to her therapist first thing in the morning and said, Honey, sit down. Now, she wasn't the only woman whose bed that conscious was trying to get into.

Oh. Conscious. Yeah.

Many women in town were reporting seeing his specter appearing to them, touching them without permission, and stanken up the surrounding areas. He would stink. He was very smelly. Did you know that every year, over one million Americans are diagnosed with diabetes? That's why GoodRx is here to help with 20 popular diabetes medications for less than $20. Goodrx is free and easy to use. Just search for any prescription on the GoodRx website or the app Goodyear. Com. Get your coupon, and show it to the pharmacist. Check GoodRx to save up to 80% at pharmacies near you, including Walmart, Walgreens, CVS, Publix, Albertsons, Crokers, and many more. Remember, GoodRx works whether you have insurance or not. Even if you do have insurance, GoodRx could beat your copay price. Whether you're refilling a diabetes medication or picking up any prescription, don't forget to check GoodRx. I was at the pharmacy the other day picking up a prescription, and I personally was using my GoodRx, and my copay was so much cheaper. And there was a lady behind me and she was like, How did you just get that for so cheap? I said, Honey, look into GoodRx, would you?

For savings on diabetes medications and other everyday prescriptions, check GoodRx. Go to goodrx. Com/morbid. That's goodrx. Com/morbid. Now, this went on for months and months. People were seeing and unfortunately smelling conscious everywhere. He appeared to old friends, old enemies. His specter was returning to his house and scaring the shit out of a servant. People were also seeing flashes of lights at all hours of the night coming from the house. People saw him on horseback a few times. You know?

He goes for a ride every now and then. An evening No.

Yeah. So obviously something had to be done about this. Am I right?

Yeah. You're so right.

Get him out of here.

But what were the townspeople to do? How do you stop a dead man?

No.

Well, they started by going to his grave, and when they got there, they saw all these little holes in the ground. So they said, Oh, that must be it. He's losing out of the earth. Obviously. So they said, We'll fill these up, and maybe that will put an end to things. It did not. And the little holes just kept reappearing. So after going back to the drawing board, they decided something more had to be done here. They had to exhume his body and check it out. So they set out to do just that. And when his coffin was opened up, somehow, after six months of being dead as a doornail, conscious's body was perfectly preserved.

Uh-oh.

But I bet it stunk.

It did stink, definitely.

It had to stink.

Can't confirm.

Had to stink, definitely. It's even said that they handed him a staff and he was able to reach out and grab it. So they were like, this rocked their worlds even more. They said, what are we to do here? So they actually went to a judge and had asked him what they should do. And he said the best thing that they could possibly do was burn conscious's body. So they said, okay, all right, let's do it.

Because he's a vampire.

He's a vampire. They said, you're working with a vampire here. You got to burn him. Yeah. So they tried to. They tried to light him ablaze, but his body wouldn't stay lit. Oh. Conscious said, No.

It's like awful birthday candles.

Yes, that's trick candles.

They got the idea from conscious. You didn't know?

If you look on the back, it actually has this legend on the little It does.

It's just more condensed, that's all. So they said, Well, we got to do something about this. So they ended up cutting him into smaller pieces. And when they made the first cut, they said blood spilled from him like it was still flowing freely throughout his body.

My goodness. After six months of death.

After six months of death. But luckily, they ended up being able to fully burn the body once it was cut into smaller pieces and nobody ever saw or smelled country fictitious again. Damn. Well. What a crazy tale, right?

That was quite a tale. I have to ask, are these true accounts? Is this fictitious? Where does the story come from? Polish folklore, at least, right?

Yes, it's Polish folklore, and it's based off of Henry More's version of events of this tale that he wrote. It was basically something he was writing against atheism.

Whoa. Okay. Interesting.

He was like, conscious.

It happened. He said, let me... There's actually, you can read, and I'll link it in the show notes, you can read this tale in much greater detail because Henry Moore told us a lot about conscious.

Really? Okay. Okay, so you gave us the abridged version?

This is the abridged version. I don't want to keep you here. I know you have other roles to get to, Ducky.

I want to play conscious now.

I was going to say your next role is right here.

I'll send you the link to the detailed version, and you find somebody to make that movie.

Okay, it's a deal. I'm surprised it hasn't been made yet. I know. This comes from 1500 something.

Just start practicing throwing goats about and vomiting from the air.

And taking fences up by the pegs.

Yes, just Fence is up.

Just skip the other crappy stuff, the dog beating and the woman intimidating.

No, I don't want to... I'm going to toss great milking cows and turning them into blood.

Yeah, maybe skip that part.

But throwing goats about is fine as long you're not hurting them.

If they can land on their hubs, okay.

Yeah, just holding their hubs and running around with them.

Yeah, there you go. But yeah, that's the tale of conscious.

Man, I like that.

Thank you for that. That was a story I'd never heard before.

I'm so glad to tell Doug Jones a story he's never heard. A great honor. About a vampire.

About a vampire.

Well, we would end on conscious, which would seem appropriate, but we do have one little thing that we would love to end on. We love to do a little short game with guests a lot because these tend to be fun to hear answers. We would like to know who out of these three characters that I'm going to list would be most likely to do these certain things I'm going to ask. Okay. Who out of Billy Butcherson, Beren Alphanas, and Nosferatu would have compet... Which one would have won the hunger games?

Okay. Oh, not Billy. I don't think he has any powers to last very long.

No. And the mouth so shut would be not great.

Between Beren Alphanas and Nosferat. I'm going to say it's going to be the baron. The baron will have lasted longer for the hunger games because he tends to show supernatural powers more often. Where he flies, he zaps things with his hands. He could take them.

He could take them all. I think so. I think so, too. And he's charming. He could do the alliance thing really well.

Yeah, he's good at gaslighting. Yeah, I agree.

That's the perfect answer.

Yeah.

The next one is out of those three characters, who would take over the world successfully, if given the chance?

Oh, poor Billy. I'm going to have to leave him out of this one again. I know.

Poor Billy. Bless his heart. He might win the next one.

Yeah. Yeah, he probably will win the next one.

Okay, so why don't we... I'm going to say, probably, let's go with Nosferatu on this one because I think that Count Orlock, his subtleties and his sneak around the back door personality might be what gets him to take over things with no one knowing about it. Whereas the baron is very out there and very presentational. Yeah, he does it with a flourish, and so you see it coming and he would be stopped before. But the count would be more shifty about it.

I agree. Good point. I agree with that.

I love the thought put into that.

That was a good one. The last one, I'm thinking it, and it might not be Billy, but possibly. Who would have the biggest TikTok following?

No, honestly, it is indeed Billy.

I was going to say I felt like he was going to win, but I didn't know if the baron could edge him out.

Well, the baron would love to be the most famous of all of them because he's such a narcissist. But I think Billy would win because a scene that you did not... That you never saw or a moment you never saw from Hocus Pocus One that we did film but was cut from the film, Do you remember the costume dance party? Yes. Where Bitt Miller gets out. The witches get up on stage and saying, I put a spell on you?

Iconic, yes.

Iconic moment, right. My character Billy Butcherson was in that scene I broke into it and I fit into the costume party, nobody really noticed me because everybody was done up as something. And so, oh, look, the fun zombie. Right. I'm roaming about the crowd, looking for the kids and trying to do my deed. Once Bettmiller sings, I put a spell on you, and then the whole crowd gets in a trance and starts dance, dance, dancing until the spell is broken, I'm not under the spell, but I thought it was fun for me. There was a scene where the action continues outside the dance party, but they come back to the dance party to show everybody's still dancing a couple of times. Oh, I love that. One of those coming back to the parties was going to be Billy hopping up onto stage and dancing once he had an audience. I can be like, Hey, I'm here. I tell you something. I threw my legs about in such tomfoulery. I bounced up and down on the floor. I did the hurdler split.

I'm so sad we didn't get to see this.

Oh, my God. That was a raging TikTok video before TikTok existed. You are correct. I think Billy would have the dance videos that could end all dance videos if he had a TikTok. Wow.

I think that footage needs to be released and somebody needs to make Billy Butcher's in a TikTok.

Yes. Yeah. Come on.

Oh, I love knowing that. Thank you for that. That was such a good one.

Don't talk about that very often. So you might have gotten an exclusive there. I love that.

Doug Jones forever. We always have so much fun with you. We do.

Me too, you.

So thank you so much for coming on today. We love sitting with you.

You are always welcome.

You are one of our most favorite, most treasured guests. And plug, plug, plug, whatever you have now, upcoming, feel free to shout it from the the rooftops here.

Well, let's go down the list we've talked about. Of course, we have Nosferatu, a symphony of horror coming to Apple TV Friday, the 18th of October, and on Amazon Prime as well. I'm also told it's on Fandango and Roku, and so look for it on whatever your device is. Also, October 21st starts the new season, the final season of what we do in the Shadows. Beren Afanast does return for a few episodes. You'll see me on the first night. I think They think they told me they're going to show three episodes on the first night, so you're going to have a lot of shadows to start the season up. Nice. Also, Billy Butcherson, as we've talked about, is in Hocus Pocus one and two all month long on the Freeform channel, playing as a double feature on various nights and days. Other than that, I have more movies coming. I've been doing a lot of indies and shorts over the last year and a half, playing a lot of humans. Oh, exciting. I'm loving this phase. One of is a funny movie called Operation taco, Gary's. Obsessed already. It's a zany comedy. Two brothers are on a road trip across the country, and when they get to their destination, they find themselves in the middle of a conspiracy with an Earth takeover by aliens.

I might happen to be the alien trying to pass as a human who's the leader of all this. Yes.

I'm in.

I'm in.

Operation taco, Gary's is going to be playing at the Austin Film Festival, October 25th.

Awesome.

You have an exciting October, Doug.

I know.

It's quite a month. It is. Then next week, I'm actually going to North Carolina to film an episode of Blue Ridge, which is a... This is a turning of the page for me. I'm going to play a guy who lives in the mountains. What happens with me is yet to be discovered. But that's a show that's led by Jonathan Sheck, if you remember him, he was the lead singer of The Wonders in That Thing You Do. He was also the young Hattie in a movie with one owner writer called American Quilt. That was his breakout back in the day.

I remember that movie.

He also played Houdini in a TV movie of Houdini, and he was brilliant as that character. He also played Jona Hex in DC Oh, gosh, which DC show was that? Oh, God.

I'm so bad at these.

Yeah, I know. Anyway, all my scenes are with him, and I can't wait to play that out. That's this coming week. I'm going to be filming that. That'll come out on the Inspiration channel and the Cowboy Way, I think, when their season 2 finally airs.

Oh, that sounds awesome.

Blue Ridge. Oh, that sounds awesome. Man, you are busy.

Yeah, so we're doing it. We're doing it this month.

All good stuff. Getting after it.

I love it. Yeah, seriously.

Well, Doug. Well, thank you again. Yeah.

Thank you so much. And again, you are welcome anytime.

No, bless you all. Thank you so much for having me. I adore you two. Don't ever change, okay? We adore you.

You either. Okay.

Loving you so much.

Oh, we love you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. Bye, Doug.

Well, guys, we hope you keep listening, and we hope you... Keep... It... Weird. Unfortunately, you'll never be able to keep it as cool as Doug Jones, but... Never. I meant to say keep it as weird. You'll never be as cool as, and you'll never keep it as weird as Doug Jones. Love you.

So please tell the children that Billy Billish-Butterson loves them very much. Would you do that for me? Amazing.

I was just going to ask you to do that.

All right. Yeah, of course.

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining WNDYRY Plus in the WNDRI app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wndri. Com/survey.

In a quiet suburb, a community is shattered by the death of a beloved wife and mother. But this tragic loss of life quickly turns into something even darker. Her husband had tried to hire a hitman on the dark web to kill her, and she wasn't the only target. Because buried in the depths of the internet is The Kill List, a cache of chilling documents containing names, photos, addresses, and specific instructions for people's murders. This podcast is the true story of how it ended up in a race against time to warn those who lives were in danger. It turns out, convincing a total stranger someone wants them dead is not easy. Follow Kill List on the WNDYRI app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Kill List and more Exhibit C truecrime shows like Morbid early and add free right now by joining WNDYR Plus. Check out Exhibit C in the WNDYR app for all your truecrime listening.