Hey, weirdos, it's Ash. Before we dive into today's Twistered Tale, let me tell you about the spooky perks of WNDRI Plus. It's like having a skeleton key that unlocks ad-free listening and early access to new episodes. So don't wait. Try WNDRI Plus today. You can join WNDRI Plus in the WNDRI app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast. I'm Afwa Hirsch. I'm Peter Frankerpen. In our podcast, Legacy, we explore the lives of some of the biggest characters in history. This season, we're looking at the life of the most famous Queen of France, Marie-Antoinette. Her death is seemingly more well known than her life, but her journey from the daughter of the Austrian Emperor to becoming the most hated woman in France is just as fascinating. We're going to look at the ways in which her story was distorted during the French Revolution and dig deeper into her real experiences in a troubled, difficult time. Marie is one of the most well-recognized but least well-understood names in history. We're talking about how her death led to the way that she was spoken about in the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries.

Follow Legacy Now from wherever you get your podcasts. Or binge entire seasons early and ad-free on WNDYRI Plus. Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash.

And I'm Elaina.

And this is Morbid.

This is Morbid in 2025. It's been that way probably for a long time.

But not for us. I think this is only our second episode of 2025. Is it? Okay.

I was like, Am I six weeks into 2025 being like, Happy New Year.

New Year, new us. No, I mean, for the listener. For the listener. For the listener. Hello, out there, listener. The weirdos. It's definitely probably the 45th episode of 2025. Probably. But for us, it's number two. Yeah.

So it's still new.

It's new for us. Mikey's looking to make to tell us. It's only January eighth right now.

It is. It's early. It's crazy. Early days yet. Mikey said, I don't know what- He's doing quick half.

Today is the 23rd.

That was Mikey letting you know today is the 23rd. It is.

But for us, it's the eighth.

There you go. Which means it's David Bowie's birthday. Happy birthday, David Bowie.

Happy birthday, David Bowie. Actually, okay, perfect segue. I was watching Real Housewives of Beverly Hills last night. Thank you. Love it. And Garcelle Bouvet's son is modeling. And she was like, oh, my God, there are so many great models. During my time, it was Naomi, it was Iman, it was... Who else did she name? Is it Beverly Johnson? Yeah, Beverly Johnson. And he goes, I don't know any of those people. Which he wouldn't because he's super young. But even I was like, oh, my God.

It really hits you in the head.

Life comes at you so fast.

It really does.

What? It hits you in the head. Because at first I was like, are you fucking kidding me? And then I was like, oh, you're like, he's not even in his 20s. Why would you know? I mean, why would you really know those people?

It's when you have to answer to children when they're like, did you have this when you were younger? And you're like, not only did I not have that, there wasn't even the capability to have that. We were talking about because Roblox is a big thing among children right now, but my children are not allowed to use it. Helicopter Mom. Helicopter Mom. I don't give a fuck. I don't blame you. But yeah, they're not allowed to use it.

They will never be allowed to use it.

Fuck Roblox. Fuck Roblox. I think there's a bunch of predators there. But that's a story for another time. But they had brought it up because now they feel like they're fine with They understand the reasons and they're totally fine. And they had brought it up at one point about one of their friends got to use it, and they were just telling me some story. And then they were like, Oh, did you get to use Roblox when you were a younger mom?

And I was like, We didn't even have an iPad. I was like, Babe, you said, We didn't even know what a tablet was.

Not only that, we didn't have the Internet when I was your age.

The only tablets we knew of were in the fucking ancient pyramids. Now your ribs hurt.

I cracked myself up. I said, not only did Roblox not exist, the Internet didn't exist. They were still working. I did not have a computer, and tablets were not a thing. Tablets were in the pyramids, babe. Did not exist. So no. Did that?

No, I did not have to. Did that below their fucking minds? What? Wow.

And there's been times they've asked me if pictures were in color when I was little. That's such an insult. And I was like, okay, yes. All right. I did have color.

Well, because to them, our generation was born in the 1900s.

Oh, they say that all the time.

Like, damn. Yeah. Damn.

They're like, well, you're from the... And they love to say you're from the 1970s. And I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm not even from there. You said I wasn't even a thought. Yeah, Mikey's like, fuck you I was.

Mikey's like, I'm from the 1970s and what of it.

But I'm always like, can you not send me further back into time? I'm like, They're already dogging me for being born in the 1900s. And then they want to make me even... I'm like, all right.

Yeah, that's rough.

At least give me an... Give my accurate date.

Okay? My favorite is that your youngest thinks that I'm older than you. Oh, all the time. Because I'm taller.

And they ask every time.

She asks all the time. Is Gigi older than you? I'm like, No. I am 10 years younger. The kids just equate taller with older. It's so weird. I mean, it makes perfect sense, but I'm like, no, no, no. I'm so much younger than mama. So much younger. But honestly, at this point, I wish I was older. Drew is going to turn 30.

In the 30 Club?

He's about to join the 30 Club. And I said to him last night, I was like, does that feel weird? Are you are you like, mortening your 20s at all? And he was like, fuck, no. He was like, I am so excited to turn 30.

Honestly, as he should be.

And I felt jealous. I feel a little bit jealous of him that he's turning 30.

But you get the anticipation of it.

I know. But I'm not going to be 30 for another year and a half.

Yeah, that's going to fly by, babe.

I know. I mean, let's hope.

It will.

I'm determined to make it fly by. Yeah, same. Retweet. If you heard me earlier crying as I was laughing, that's because I sat here and I talked to Elaina. We're just having some banter, okay? It's been a minute.

It's just, you know, New Year.

New Year, same as. But maybe not the same because I left a lot of me on the floor in 2025. You did.

On the cutting room floor.

On the shower floor. I got, if you, and it's going around, so I'm sure a lot of you have probably faced this in the past couple of weeks, the neurovirus is going around. Wash your motherfucking hands.

Yeah, wash your hands, man.

I don't know if I got the neurovirus or if it was a food poisoning thing because I did eat a sketchy burger. You know who I am, a Captain Crunch slurpy girl.

Yeah, a faux faux faux.

The The violence that was inflicted upon me. And I literally just been sitting here telling Elaina, I'm drinking colostrum. So I'm like, I'll never get sick. I have colostrum and it's an immunity booster. You've all been so sick and not me.

Yeah, it's true. That same day.

Literally, it was like a day later. Like, if that, the universe said, Bitch, check yourself before you wreck yourself. Actually, let me wreck you.

The universe said, Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah?

I died for three days and my ribs are still hurting. This was Saturday night. It's Wednesday now. My ribs are still hurting. I know. That's crazy. The violence with which I yacked. Damn. Yeah. I'm still recovering. But you know what? I woke up this morning. I chose myself at a I had a pep talk with Lux, my cat. I ate my breakfast. I love that. It was great. It was wonderful.

We're trying to... I like resolutions. Some people hate resolutions. I like them.

I've never been a huge resolution girly.

I never really have been either. I've always thought it was a nice concept, but I've never really participated that much.

I always had concepts of a resolution. I like the ideas, but I'll be the first one to admit that I never really stick to them.

I don't even really set them that hard. I'll be like, Yeah, I want to start working out this year. But I never give myself this plan of action, which is most of the problem. And this year I went in being like, my first resolution is I'm going to be nicer to me.

Me too.

And I think that is the... If any of you are like, I would like a resolution or you're struggling, your first resolution should be, be nicer to you.

Because it changes. It's like when your youngest goes, this changes everything. Yes. From Bluey. But it changes everything Because if you are being a dick to yourself, for instance, this morning, I did not want to wake up early. I felt like shit the past couple of days. I saw that alarm, I turned it off, and then I said, no, girl, bet on yourself. Don't give up on yourself.

And you didn't say, get up, you lazy sack of shit. You were like, hey.

And it made the biggest difference. You can do this.

If you wouldn't say it to someone you love and care about, don't fucking say it to yourself, man. I tell my kids that all the time. No, it's so true. If you wouldn't say it to someone you love, if you wouldn't say it to me, if you wouldn't say it to or anybody else you love, then don't say it to you.

No.

Because you need to be nice to yourself. And it's like being nice to yourself also makes it so that you don't take shit from anyone else. And you shouldn't. Because you don't accept that shit from outside sources. Hell no. So be nice to yourself and you will suddenly find yourself being like, oh, no, I'm not taking your nasty ass comments. I'm better than that. So that's my words of wisdom to you.

One page I suggest following if you're on a journey to just a morning routine or a fitness routine, any routine, just like the habit stacking. I love Shelby Socco. She's Sad to Savage on Instagram. She has a podcast and everything. I love her. I love it. She starts her mornings and she has this whole morning routine. But she's where I learned habit stacking, which I talk to you about. Habit stacking is the move. There's so much actual scientific research behind it. You just slowly add things to your day that you want to be part of your routine. Yeah.

And once you're comfortable with one thing, add a little more.

That's when you add the other one. Like she said, she was like, I- Don't put too much expectation on yourself.

Yeah.

She was like, I used to wake up at nine o'clock for my 9:00 AM job, and I was like, Same sister. And she was like, And then I slowly started waking up 20 minutes earlier. Did that for a couple of weeks. Just a little bit. Just a little out of time.

Just don't be hard on yourself. Yeah. And if you want to do stuff, you can. But just be nice to yourself and do it slowly and you'll get there. Don't let people make you feel like you got to do it all at once. See, that's part of being nice to yourself is you won't let those people tell you what to do because you'll be like, no, I deserve more than that. Thank you.

I trust me. I'm going to do what I say. Yeah.

I love that. It's a nicer, more peaceful existence. It really is. People will try to drag in into bullshit. Don't let them.

We're claiming our peace this year. That's right. 2025 is the year of peace for us.

Hell, yeah. And peace for morbid listeners.

Hey. Yo. All right. Well, since you're morbid listeners and we just bantered your ears off for like 45 minutes, thank you for us do that. Yeah. We just went back to our roots. Yeah. Sometimes we got to. We don't do it all the time, but we're feeling our roots. I just love going back to our roots. Yes. I love it. But let's go back to what you're here for, which is a case. And this case is really important because it's an a solved case. So it's a little bit shorter, obviously, because when it's unsolved, there's not the whole trial part of everything. But this was a Hulu documentary that came out a few months ago, probably. And I said to Dave, I was like, we got to cover this because it's really interesting and I want to get more ears on this. So let's go. We're going to talk about the unsolved murder of Melissa Whitt. It's so sad because she was 19 when she went missing.

When you look back at 19, that's a baby.

Oh my God. For me, that was like 10 years ago and the difference between who I was then and who I am now. I know for you, it was like way longer ago. It was 20 years ago. That's okay.

I'm older than the amount of years that is.

But you look great. Yeah. And you're beautiful. So going back to the story, let's talk about Melissa and Whitt before she disappeared, obviously. Melissa Ann Witt was born April 20th, 1975. She, too, was from the '70s. Oh, there you go. In Arkansas to John and Mary Ann Witt. She was raised in Fort Smith. I always want to say Arizona, but it's Arkansas. I look at A-R. Oh, Yeah. In my brain says Arizona. I feel that.

It's Arkansas.

Arkansas. Arkansas. Arkansas. Don't yell at us. I know. I'm kidding.

I promise.

But she was raised alongside her brother, Roni, and her sisters, Caroline and Barbara. She was a good student. She was very active in her church community at the Avenue Baptist Church, and she always had really good relationships with her family, particularly her mother. They were super close. After Melissa's death, her mother would say how she never really had any trouble with Melissa at all. They were just best friends. They were always there for each other. And while a lot of teenagers usually, obviously, try to distance themselves from their parents, Melissa's relationship with her mom was always a source of pride for the two of them. All her friends and family knew just how close they were, and specifically, they knew how protective Maryanne was over Melissa.

Oh, that's so beautiful.

I know. And especially at 19. That's the thing. To have that relationship with your mom. Wow. Because obviously, that's That's the dream. Yeah. I mean, teenagers usually try to distance themselves from their parents around those years.

Oh, this is already breaking my heart. I know.

So after graduating from North Side High School in 1993, Melissa enrolled at West Art Community College with plans of becoming a dental hygienist. Oh, damn. Yeah. Not long after starting her first semester, she actually became an ambassador for the school. Holy shit. Which meant that she would go out and recruit students to go there, promoting the school and its programs to any prospective students in the area. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. And the school has to trust you to send you out there and rep them like that.

Also, dreams of becoming a dental hygienist. Dental? Like, school? It's tough. In any capacity, hygienist or dentists, like full-blown dentists? So hard. So hard. So much involved in that.

And you see some of the gnarliest shit. I was friends with a girl who went to dental hygienist school, and she saw spiders in somebody's mouth before.

That was something I feel like I was better for not knowing. Well, now you're worse. I was better before that, I feel.

You know how many times- Holy shit. You've done so many info drops on me like that. That's true.

So you're welcome.

So you've been better before. Oh, but can... No, I can't. And also, how do you just sit there and calmly, I guess, remove the spiders from said mouth and then be like, Hey, we got to be good about brushing around the molars because spiders.

There was some arachnids taken up.

Not arachnids.

Taken up space in there.

That's horrific.

Arachnids were holding space in your mouth.

God.

No, I can't.

That's awful.

I cannot.

That's awful. I got to go. Well, KFSM reporter Charlene Shirk told ABC News in 2024, the college had her go and recruit students because they wanted students like her. She was already a hard her. She had big dreams for her life. It just goes to show that she was willing to put in the work to make her dreams reality. Because in her spare time, Melissa actually worked as an assistant for a local dental practice in town. Oh, damn. She was like, I want to do this. I'm going to start now.

Yeah, she's already in the, I'm going to get the on-site experience.

Yes. The office manager, Anita Dodson said, Missy was a very good kid. She was friendly. She didn't have any enemies. Everyone loved her, and she was a good student, although she would still joke around with us. Being an actual royal is never about finding your happy ending. But the worst part is, if they step out of line or fall in love with the wrong person, it changes the course of history. I'm Arisha Skidmore-Williams. And I'm Brooklyn Ziffrin. We've been telling the stories of the Rich and Famous on the hit Wondery Show, Even the Rich, and talking about the latest celebrity Today's news on Rich and Daily. We're going all over the world on our new show, Even the Royals. We'll be diving headfirst into the lives of the world's Kings, Queens, and all the Wanabees in their orbit throughout history. Think succession meets the Crown meets real life. We're going to pull back the gilded curtain and show how royal status might be bright and shiny, but it comes at the expense of, well, everything else, like your freedom, your privacy, and sometimes even your head. Follow Even the Royals on the WNDRI app or wherever you your podcasts.

You can listen to Even the Royals early and ad-free right now by joining WNDYRI Plus. Bunk.

Bunk.

Bunk. Michael, what are you doing? I'm saying Bunk, Vinnie. What's a Bunk?

I'm glad you asked, Vinnie.

Bunk is a super easy-to-use free digital bank that pays 2.67% interest on your savings. Paid weekly, fully on demand, and can be set up in just five minutes.

It's fun to say, Bunk.

Bunk. I See? What did my bank pay?

Next to nothing. On Bunk? 2.67%, Finnie.

Paid weekly. Paid weekly. Okay, Bunk. Bunk. Hey, it is fun to say. Bunk Ireland is regulated by the Dutch Central Bank and by the Central Bank of Ireland for Rules of Business Conduct. Terms of Conditions apply. And according to Dodson, Melissa brought an invaluable warmth and brightness to the office whenever she was in the building. And after her disappearance, she said the absence of that brightness could be by everyone. She said, The staff here are close, like family, and we did all we could to support each other when Missy went missing. Everyone was upset for such a long time. She was so sweet and so nice.

Oh, it sounds like she just left a gaping void.

Yeah. And left like a mark on everybody that she had in such a good way.

Yeah.

So on the morning of December first, 1994, Melissa had breakfast with her mother. And unfortunately, which doesn't sound like it was very like them at all, they got into an argument went with each other that morning, and it was over money. According to Maryanne, Melissa wanted to borrow some money and hoping to teach her daughter a valuable lesson about the value of money, she said no. And that, of course, left Melissa frustrated, and she left the house frustrated. Oh, No. So not wanting to end the discussion in anger. Before she left for work, Maryanne wrote her daughter a short note, reminding her that she herself, Maryanne, had bowling league that evening. And she said in the note, Melissa, why don't you come to bowling World after school and after work and I'll buy you dinner? I just want to end the day on it. Yeah.

Let's put this behind us. Yeah.

So Melissa went to school that day, left work at 5:00 PM. But when she tried to start her car that night, the engine wouldn't turn over. Later during her investigation, The inspectors were able to determine that the dome light in her car had been accidentally left on while she was at work. Maybe the door didn't close all the way or something. So the car's battery was drained. But fortunately, she and a coworker were able to flag down a local business owner who gave her car her jumpstart and she was able to get the engine started. Okay. Once the car was started, she headed home to change out of her work clothes, which investigators later found on her bedroom floor. They also assumed that she must have seen the note that Maryanne left for her because after she changed her clothes, she headed to the bowling world, arriving sometime between 6:00 and 6:30 and parking her car in the northwest corner of the lot. Okay. Where her mom was inside with her bowling league. The bowling alley, unfortunately, had no security cameras the parking lot. You have to remember, this is early '90s. It wasn't super common for everywhere to have.

It's true.

Now we'd be like, what? But back then it would be like, wait, they had security cameras? Exactly. It would be more shocking the other way.

And it's also like, back then, I'm sure banks and that place had security cameras, but like, bowling alleys. But it's like a bowling alley. It's a local bowling alley. For sure. Because they didn't have security cameras, whatever happened after Melissa parked her car is almost entirely unknown. According to statements from witnesses, she was last arguing with a black male at Bowling World around 6:00 PM, and that was the last time anybody saw her. A little before 8:00 PM, somebody found her keys in the parking lot of the bowling alley and turned them into the cashier at the front desk. But at that time, nobody noticed that there was actually small splatters of blood dried onto the keys, and nobody at the alley would later remember who had turned those keys in.

Oh, no. Yeah.

So later that night, when Maryanne returned home, she surprised to find that Melissa hadn't returned home yet. However, she figured that maybe she'd gone out with some friends and would come back later that night. It wasn't something she was super worried about right away. But the next morning, when Melissa still hadn't returned, that's when Maryanne became really worried She wouldn't have spent the night out without calling her and contacting her somehow. So she contacted the police a little after 9:00 AM to report her daughter missing. Over the course of the next two days, Melissa's friends and family and the local police spread out across Fort Smith looking for her. They handed out over 6000 flyers with her photograph, but nobody had seen or heard anything.

Just having to make that phone call as a mother to report your child missing I can't. I feel like every time I hear that, I'm always like, I can't even bring myself to be in that position. I can't. That alone. No. And then to hear that no one's seen her. No one is heard anything. There's just no one being able to be like, oh, no, no, no, she's here. I saw her here.

And knowing that you just had a run-of-the-mill argument before. Oh my God. And just knowing that that's the last contact you had with her before she just disappeared in the center.

Which is so normal and so every day.

Of course. Like I said, run-of-the-mill. Like, everybody has argued with their mom in the morning before heading out to go somewhere. Yeah. And her mom did the right thing by being like, you know what? I don't want to end on this note. Let's put this behind us. Meet up later. Like, let's not end the day on a bad note.

Exactly.

But, it's so That's what she had. At least she knew that her daughter saw the note.

Yeah, I know. That is a good thing.

But then, of course, she lived with guilt because she was the one who said, come to the bowling alley.

Oh, God, I hate that. I know.

So it wasn't until Monday, December fourth, that Melissa's car was discovered in the parking lot of the bowling world after an employee realized that the keys had blood smeared on them, finally, and bore the name Missy on the keychain. More importantly, there was also a pool of blood found near the car and one gold earring and a hair clip believed to have to Melissa, which I'm like, why did it take people that long to realize what was there? That's the thing. That's the thing. What? She was parked in the corner.

The far corner.

The far corner. So I think that had a lot to do with it. But I was like, damn, investigators. Yeah. But when they did discover all that, they cordoned off the area and they started taking samples and processing the vehicle for evidence. Until that moment, Melissa's case had actually been labeled a runaway. Shocked. Crazy. But the discovery of the blood and the personal item shifted the focus to a potential kidnapping at that moment. They still didn't think that she was murdered or anything. Several police officers contacted the employees of the bowling alley and the customers who were known to have been there that night. But this is interesting. One person recalled hearing what sounded like a young woman's voice shouting for help at one point that evening. But they said they couldn't be sure what they heard and nobody else remembered anything.

I never get these. I'm like, You heard someone yelling for help? Did you say anything in the moment to anyone else?

I think it's so easy to talk yourself out of what you heard in the moment. Oh, for sure. I think I've probably even done it. And hopefully, actually, it's been something where I talked myself into what it actually was. It's easy to do it from a...

From hindsight. Of course. And from looking at it from an outside point of view. But I always just think... And I'm Uber, and maybe it's because we do this.

Well, now, I think my focus has shifted so much or my perspective has shifted so much because of this.

Because I'm wicked on high alert. So if I hear something that I think is somebody yelling, I always say something to somebody just to be like, did you hear that?

Am I going crazy?

Am I crazy? I always like to know that I'm not the only one hearing it.

No, I think doing this has made us hyper aware. It has. Almost to a bad point sometimes.

Yeah, honestly, there's been points when I'm like...

We spiral sometimes. I heard a coyote in the woods the other night and I was convinced that a woman was in the woods being abducted. And Drew was like, That's absolutely coyotes. And I was like, Should we call someone, though? He was like, Ash, that is 100 % coyote.

Yeah, he's like, We are not calling someone for coyotes. I was like, Okay. Okay.

Back to the story, though. Two weeks later, Fort Smith police arrested a local man, Larry Landrum, on suspicion of sexual assault and a string of other crimes unrelated to Melissa's disappearance. Landrum would later be convicted for the murder of another young woman in Arkansas, Lucile Hassler. So They probably thought they had their guy. Yeah. At a loss for productive leads, investigators hoped that his arrest would be the break that they needed to find Melissa or at least get some answers because, usually people like that are not associated with other great people.

Yeah, criminals, no criminals.

His body language and evasiveness during the interview also raised a lot of red flags, and the results of his polygraph examination showed deception, but they were never able to collect any evidence linking him to the crime.

Oh, that's frustrating. Yeah.

Every lead that they get in this case is so frustrating because it falls apart so quickly. Or it's like the lead up and then it just completely fizzles out. It's rough. So a week later, on December 21st, Fort Smith Police held a press conference to provide an update on the case. At that time, they disclosed that Melissa had last been seen arguing with a man in the parking lot of the bowling world on the night that she went missing. The individual was described as a, quote, black male, probably in his early '20s with short hair, a medium build, and approximately 6 feet tall. After three weeks of dead and leads and very little evidence, the local authorities were starting to express their concern that something pretty terrible could have happened to Melissa.

The kidnapping angle is seeming less likely at this point.

Yeah, definitely as time is going. But they assured reporters that they did remain committed to the case. Sergeant David Overton said, It's becoming frustrating, but we continue to look for quality leads, and we hope to still find her alive. But again, when that much time goes by, it becomes less likely. One thing about this case is, like I was saying, they dropped everything. There were other cases being worked on at this point in time, and multiple police officers dropped those cases that were obviously important, but of lesser importance. And everybody committed their time to finding Melissa. Oh, wow. So by that time, two large full-color billboards had been donated in town, showing a picture of Melissa alongside the number for crime stoppers. And the Fort Smith Bank was offering a $30,000 reward for any information that would have led to her safe return, but neither yielded productive results. That's so crazy to me. Which is crazy. Yeah. That's a big reward. So $30,000 in 1994 or 1995 would be about $64,000 today. So it's almost more than double. Damn. That's crazy.

That's crazy.

A few weeks later, on January 13th, 1995, investigators got the break that they've been waiting for, but it definitely was not the outcome that anybody was hoping for. Oh, no. At about 9:30 AM, two hunters in Ozark, Arkansas, about 40 miles from Fort Smith, reported to the Franklin County Sheriff's officer that they had been walking through the woods and they came upon what they thought was a mannequin lying faced down in the woods, about 30 feet from the main road. According to the hunters, they had actually been out in those same woods and walked the same exact road the day before, but they didn't recall seeing anything at the time. That's interesting. And remember, she's been missing for weeks at this Over three weeks. Over three weeks. Close to a month.

That's interesting.

Yeah. Detective Ryder and his team, along with several crime scene technicians, went out to the spot in the Ozark National Forest where Melissa's body had been discovered. And while they couldn't be positive it was Melissa at the time, they were reasonably confident that they had found their missing person. That's awful. She would ultimately be conclusively identified through dental records. Oh, that's awful. Yeah. Melissa's body, this is so sad, was lying nude in a muddy area. She had a non-fatal wound on the her head from what appeared to be a blow from a heavy object. Based on the location, Ryder and the other investigators theorized that the killer was probably local, or at least somebody who had frequented the area often enough to be familiar with this particular section of the forest, so possibly a hiker or a camper, somebody like that. As they surveyed the crime scene, investigators also noticed something strange. There was a human-sized indentation in the earth behind two large rocks just several feet away from where her body had been discovered. So they theorized that the killer had actually initially placed the body behind the rock after the murder occurred, like probably closer to when it occurred, which would explain why hunters hadn't seen her the previous day.

What? So he moved her?

They think that he did move her. What the fuck? There's two sides. There's some people who think he moved her, and then we'll talk about what the other people think. Because why the killer would have returned and moved the body about 20 feet was a total mystery. My The only theory is that they were feeling some something about the fact that she hadn't been found yet. Stranger things have happened. Yeah. But I don't know. There were also visible finger marks on her wrists where the killer grabbed her body and dragged it from one location to the other?

If the killer moved the body, then I think they did so because they were frustrated that she hadn't been found yet.

I was actually just thinking about what I had just said. I don't think they felt bad.

They wanted the- Yeah, I don't think there was, I want her to be found because you don't leave your were murder victim nude in the middle of the forest just be like, oh, I feel bad. I want them to... No, I think they wanted her to be found.

They wanted her to be found. They just didn't want to be found themselves. I agree with you. On the other side of things, some investigators believed that it was equally possible that animals in the forest had moved the body.

But there was visible finger marks on her wrist from dragging.

Right.

And that would be...

That'd be tough, I think, for animals to move a full body.

Yeah. I mean, it's happened. I I suppose.

But usually it's pieces of a body. That's the thing. I hate to be that crass.

I know it's gruesome, but it's just reality. Yeah. And I don't know. I feel like you would be able to tell.

Well, and you would be able, obviously, you've done autopsies, so you know. Yeah. They can tell the difference between fresh finger marks and finger mark indentations that actually happened?

Yeah, which it sounds like they were saying this looks like it was more fresh. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Jinks.

Ufo lands in Suffolk, and that's official, said the news of the world. But what really happened across two nights in December 1980, when US servicemen saw mysterious lights in the forest near RAF Woodbridge and claimed to have had a close encounter with an actual craft. Encounters, a new podcast available exclusively on WNDYRI Plus, takes a deep dive into one of the most famous and still unresolved UFO encounters to ever take place in the UK. Featuring shocking testimony from first-hand witnesses, hosts, journalist, podcaster, and UFO researcher, Andy McGrillin, that's me, and producer, El Scott, take us back to the nights in question and examine all of the evidence and conflicting theories about what was encountered in the middle of a snowy Suffolk forest 40 years ago. Are We Alone?

Encounters is a podcast which is going to find out.

Listen to Encounters exclusively in ad-free on WNDRI Plus. Join WNDRI Plus in the WNDRI app or in Apple podcasts. Behind the closed doors of government offices and military compounds, there are hidden stories and buried secrets from the darkest corners of history. From covert experiments pushing the boundaries of science to operations so secretive they were barely whispered about. Each week on redacted, declassified mysteries, we pull back the curtain on these hidden histories, 100% true and verifiable stories that expose expose the shadowy underbelly of power. Consider Operation Paper Club, where former Nazi scientists were brought to America after World War II, not as prisoners, but as assets to advance US intelligence during the Cold War. These aren't just old conspiracy theories. They're thoroughly investigated accounts that reveal the uncomfortable truths still shaping our world today. The stories are real. The secrets are shocking. Follow redacted Declassified mysteries with me, Luke LaMonna, on the WNDY app or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen ad-free, join WNDRI Plus in the WNDRI app. State Police Lieutenant Dale Best said, We believe the body had been moved. It looked like by animals. We did find the location where she had been in the wooded area, and it looks like she'd been there for quite some time.

Now, this is also just coming to me in the moment on the other side of things. I wonder if they said that it was animals who moved the body because they're not going to want to sit there and say that the killer was in those woods, right under their noses a few days ago when they can't find him.

Like, he went there twice.

So it's easier to say that animal.

It is easier to say than, like you just said, admit that he came back and had free reign to It moved the whole thing. Right. You know?

Who knows?

Who knows?

But just a day or two earlier, and this is this will give you chills. This freaked me out. And it's just awful. Two days earlier, or sorry, just a day or two earlier, an anonymous had left a message at the Fort Smith Major Crimes Unit. And an older woman with a thick Southern accent can be heard saying, go ahead and tell them what you found. ' And then a younger voice, which was probably male, they said, can be heard saying, 'No, I can't. ' And then the call just disconnected. What the fuck? Just a day or two before Melissa was found. Melissa's body was found. What? Yeah. In the woods that day when they did finally discover her, Detective Ryder couldn't help but wonder if somebody had found Alice's body before those hunters did but didn't want to get involved.

I think that is absolutely a possibility.

And they never were able to figure out where that call came from or who it was.

Oh my God, this makes me so mad.

Yeah, or I should say no other information came out about it. But other than the body in the mud and the human-sized impression in the dirt behind the rocks, the scene was devoid of evidence or anything unusual that might have helped point them in the right direction. And her killer took her clothing and her jewelry What the fuck? She was found with nothing.

Wow.

Yeah. There was no sign of her clothes or personal items anywhere. Technicians did take samples of the soil and the natural debris from the location, and Melissa's body was then moved to Little Rock to be autopsied by the state medical examiner. In his autopsy report, he listed the cause of death as asphyxiation by strangulation and noted that leaves and soil from the area were found in her airway. Oh my God. Indicating that she had, quote, been strangled face down and she inhaled debris from the forest floor. So she... Holy shit. This is brutal.

And she was killed out there.

Out there, yeah. She was brought from one location to the other.

Because I figured she was killed somewhere else and brought there.

No, it sounds like she was killed in the forest. She was killed in the hair. Holy shit. Which is horrifying. Yeah. Based on the evidence collected during the autopsy, investigators concluded that Melissa's killer had, like we were just saying, abducted her from the bowling World parking lot and then taken her to that area off the logging rolled. She was also sexually assaulted and then strangled. So the news of the discovery of Melissa's body in the Ozark woods came as a shock to everybody who obviously were out there doing the work, passing out flyers, all the while hoping that she would be found alive. But for some, it was a disappointing end to a frustrating mystery. Fort Smith Detective Clay Thomas said, I hate to say it, but finding her body was the first break we've had in this case. At least it gives us a direction Before this, we didn't have that. So I guess you can... I mean, at least there was that.

It's like it's such a double-edged sword because obviously the aim was to find Melissa alive and bring her home. This is the last thing you want to find. But at least finding someone's body can give you anything. It gives you any... Because before that, you're just blind, especially with no security cameras, no This isn't the time of digital footprints and shit.

Right. And for her family to actually have a place to go visit her where they know she's laid to rest. Like that. Which again means a lot to me.

The last thing you want to happen. Of course. In these scenarios. But I'm glad there were at least able to have something to go on at this point. It's just awful.

It is. Reverend Ed, I think it's Saucier, from the family's church, conveyed similar sentiments, telling reporter, This is a difficult time, but the family feels a little relief in finally knowing something.

Yeah, because I I imagine that the unknown must be just completely unbearable.

Because we said it before, your mind fills in the blanks. And a lot of times you're coming up with somehow even darker things sometimes. Absolutely. But unfortunately, both John and Marion Whit passed away in 2004 and then 2011, respectively. So they never got the answers that they just waited the rest of their lives to hear.

That makes me so sad. They never got it.

Now, in a city of nearly 300,000 residents, Fort Smith obviously had its fair share of violent crime. In fact, around the time that Melissa Whit disappeared, there were a number of other young women who either disappeared or were also murdered. In 1995, just nine months after Melissa was killed, another Fort Smith woman named named Laurie Murchison, went missing after she was released from jail on a public intoxication charge. She was on her way to pick up her paycheck with a plan to return back to the jail and bail out her boyfriend, but she never returned and has never been seen since. Damn. Just vanished into thin air.

Those are always the scariest, man. Yeah.

A year later, in 1996, Fort Smith resident Summer Wilkinson disappeared, and her remains were later discovered near a racetrack in Oklahoma. In 2000, a man named Jonathan Cole was convicted of her death, and at the time, he was already serving a life sentence for the 1997 murder of a 13-year-old Fort Smith girl, whose remains were also found in Oklahoma.

Holy shit.

The most alarming of these incidents are occurred on June ninth, 1995, when six-year-old Morgan nick disappeared from a Little League.

Morgan nick.

Morgan nick, yeah. Disappeared from a Little League game in Alma, Arkansas, just 20 miles from Fort Smith. So not far at all. No. Morgan had gone off with some friends to catch fireflies, which just- No, that- Absolutely ruins you. She was last seen standing by her own parents car, talking to an unknown man before she disappeared. A few weeks before her disappearance, there were actually two separate incidents of attempted kidnappings in the area, including one where a man tried to pull a four-year-old girl into his own pickup truck in Alma, and another in which a man tried to abduct a nine-year-old girl from a convenience store in Fort Smith. Holy shit. Yeah, it was a dangerous area. My God. Now, despite the obvious difference in their ages, investigators at the time did consider that Melissa's killer might also be responsible for the attempted kidnapping of the girls in Alma. Alma in Fort Smith and the disappearance of Morgan nick.

My God.

Scary.

That's horrifying.

Scary. Despite the surprising number of assaults, attempted abductions, and murders of young women in this area, investigators on Melissa's case had pretty much nothing to work with, very little to work with, and even less luck when it came to finding leads. In June of 1995, they set up roadblocks in the area, that Arkansas State Police did, in the hopes that a passing motorist might have seen or heard anything that could lead them to help find Melissa's killer or help them find Morgan nick. Lieutenant Dale Best told a reporter, We will follow leads until we've exhausted them. Somewhere, somewhere out there, there is that one lead. Somewhere, a person knows this suspect. The information is out there if we can just reach out to the right person and get them to call. But despite their best efforts, the roadblocks turned up zero useful leads. Which is nuts. That's crazy to me. That many girls going missing, ending up dead, attempted kidnappings, and nobody knows anything.

That's the thing. They're not like, these people who are doing this are not that smart. No, no. They know people. They've said things. They've done things. Like, come on.

And people just don't want to get- People don't get involved. People don't want to get involved, especially in smaller towns. Oh, yeah. There's a whole- You see it so much more often. It's a very different mindset.

There's a whole set of small town politics that comes into play. Yes.

Big time. That's a perfect way to say it. It wasn't until nearly a year later, in April 1996, that investigators finally got their best lead in Melissa Whitt's murder case. Among the stronger suspects in her murder was a local man named William Taylor, who Detective Ryder described as somebody with a quote, History of sexual abuse and violence toward women and young girls. But the problem was, after warrants were issued for his arrest in September of 1995, he went on the run, and law enforcement officials hadn't been able to find him. But finally, in April of 1996, they used phone records to track him to Mulbury, Arkansas, and he was finally arrested on those '95 warrants. Good. According to Ryder, Taylor was wanted for questioning in the Witt case because several coincidences make him a possible suspect. Taylor is known to have frequented bowling alleys in the region and was living in the area at the time Whit disappeared, about 10 miles from where her body was discovered. Oh, shit. Yeah. Unfortunately, investigators were never able to connect Taylor to Melissa Witz case or the Morgan nick case. He was only one of a handful of suspects who investigators focused on very intensely after the discovery of Melissa's body in the woods.

The earliest suspect was actually the Good Samaritan who helped Melissa after her car wouldn't start on the night of her disappearance. Oh. Under the circumstances, the timing of his appearance was pretty suspicious to investigators, but that man was interviewed several times by investigators and ultimately cleared. Oh, man. At the time Melissa's body was discovered, anyone with a criminal past and connection to Melissa, no matter how trivial, seemed like a promising suspect. Yeah, of course. But as the years passed and the case evolved, those early suspects were pretty much more than likely just pretty desperate grasps at finding any leads.

Yeah, I mean, they had to.

They had to. They had to go for anything. When you don't have anything, you have to chase down what you can. You do. Since then, several other suspects have emerged who quickly became a focus of the investigation and are actually far are more serious than the Good Samaritan and Roger Wood. You understand why they chase them down. Of course. But these next people we're going to talk about are actually make you scratch your head. In 1999, Marcus Blair, a Fort Smith reporter, was covering the crime beat for the Times record when he came across an interesting story from a Texas paper about a man named Larry Swearengen. At the time, Swearengen had been arrested for the murder of 19-year-old Melissa Trotter, who he was accused of sexually assaulting, strangling, and dumping in the Sam Houston National Forest in Texas.

So literally the same exact thing.

Same exact thing. Even dumping the body in a National Forest.

And same victim profile.

Same victim profile. Actually, if you look at a picture of Melissa, of both Melissa's, they bear striking resemblance. When Blaire brought the story to Detective Ryder's attention, which like, again, see something, say something, you have to see it. The detective felt like he had finally gotten a break in case that he'd been desperately seeking.

Yeah. They do look a lot alike.

They look a lot alike. When you put them next to each other. Around the same age, unfortunately murdered in the same manner, assaulted, placed in the same dumping locations. Placed in the same dumping locations. Just similar locations. Yeah, like four. Things looked even more promising when Ryder discovered that Larry had been in Arkansas visiting his grandparents just days before Melissa went missing. Oh, come on. Add that to the fact that he had a history of kidnapping in sexual assault of women, and he was starting to look like a pretty strong suspect in Melissa's case. Now, despite these coincidences, very strong coincidences between the cases, Swearengin maintained his innocence in the wit case until the day of his execution in fall of 2019. For years, investigators tried to get him to cooperate with an interview and sought any evidence that could tie him to Melissa's death, but he refused to speak to them, and they were never able to produce anything of substance.

He feels like a really good suspect to me.

He does.

And the fact that he refused to speak about it just wouldn't talk about it and was like, I'm being executed anyway. Yeah. Like, what the fuck? Yeah.

Another prominent suspect in Melissa's abduction and murder was convicted rapist, Travis Dale Crouch. At the time of Melissa's disappearance, he was working as a handyman at a church camp not far from where Melissa's body was discovered. Wow, okay.

A fucking rapist?

Yeah. Really? Okay. Working at a church camp.

Awesome.

And it was not far from where her body was discovered.

A convicted rapist working at a church camp.

Yeah, fantastic. Great. He had grown up in Ozark and spent the late 1980s riding around the country with several motorcycle gangs before being sent to prison in the early '90s for stabbing a man in Minneapolis. In October 1994, he was released from prison and returned to Ozark to live with his parents. Having grown up in the area, he was very intimately familiar with the region, and he had actually been seen driving in the area of the bowling world at the time of Melissa's disappearance. In interviews with law enforcement, he has no alibi. He had no alibi for the night that Melissa went missing and couldn't account for his whereabouts during the weeks that followed.

Oh, shit. Yeah.

In 1998, investigators took hair, fiber, and stained samples from the car that he was driving at the time, but the test results were inconclusive. Oh, I fucking hate that. Otherwise, he has denied playing any role in Melissa's death.

But again- He also looks like a good one.

Another strong suspect. In 1996, In '87, he was convicted of sexually assaulting a 20-year-old woman in Broomfield, Colorado. And in this case, he kidnapped the woman in her own car and drove her to a remote location in the mountains where he violently sexually assaulted her. This victim was able to escape after he passed out in the front seat. Oh my God. And at that time, she obviously reported the assault to police. As of now, he still maintains his innocence and is serving a 64-year sentence in Colorado. Holy shit. But maintains his innocence as far as the Melissa Whit case. With each new suspect that emerged in this case, it seemed like investigators were getting closer to finding the identity of Melissa's killer, finally, but they were never able to make any actual case against any individual. But there was always one man that many investigators strongly suspected of involvement in Melissa's murder, and more than any other suspect, he had the criminal history to justify their opinions. Really? Yes. In 2000, detectives in Arkansas arrested Charles Ray Vines. That name might sound familiar. Yeah. He was arrested after he violently attacked a 16-year-old girl, breaking into her home, raping her and almost killing her.

Holy shit.

Not long after that arrest, the investigation and covered additional evidence that proved he was the notorious serial killer that the press had dubbed the River Valley killer. Oh, okay. He was responsible for the brutal killings of 89-year-old Lily Jones in 1993.

I was like, Why did I know That's a good name.

And the murder of 58-year-old Juanita Woford two months later. A little over a year later, a local Fort Smith resident, Danny Bennett, confessed to those murders and was actually sent to prison for them. But whatever relief that brought was short-lived because in August of that year, while Danny Bennett was sitting in jail, or prison, rather, 74-year-old Ruth Henderson was murdered, and the killing and crime scene were remarkably similar to the murders of Jones and Woford. So the murder of Ruth Henderson was determined to have been committed by the same killer, and authorities were then forced to let Danny Bennett go. It wasn't until five years later, when Vines was arrested for this assault on the teenage girl, that investigators finally started connecting those previous cases to him, and he was arrested. After his arrest, he made a deal with the prosecutor's office in which he agreed to provide details of his previous murders in exchange for their agreeing not to pursue the death penalty. At which point he confessed to the other murders. Holy shit. Yeah. He had lived in Fort Smith for many years, including the period that Melissa Whit disappeared and was killed in.

An investigator strongly suspected him of being Melissa's killer. But when he was directly confronted about the murder after his arrest, he denied abducting or killing Melissa. Given that he had confessed to killing the other women, it really wouldn't make a lot of sense for him to deny Melissa's murder if he was responsible. But law enforcement still remains suspicious. According to Rob Allen, who was one of the FBI agents who pursued the case in 2019, he said, There was a lady who had emailed a detective. She worked with Charlie Vines' mother, and Charlie Vines sometimes would show up to his mother's work, and that A witness reported she saw him wearing a bowling league shirt of some sort. Oh. So that's interesting.

That is very interesting.

The report about the bowling league shirt is obviously circumstantial at best, but it was just one of several things about Charlie Vines, Charles Vines that made him a strong suspect. He worked about eight minutes from where Melissa's body was discovered, was known to be very familiar with the area. Like I said, he lived there most of his life and was very familiar with the logging trails in Ozark.

There's a big one.

Which not a lot of people are. Yeah. In 2021, 27 years after Melissa's murder, an investigatory team of FBI agents and local law enforcement officers were sent out to the area where Melissa's body was discovered in the Ozark forest, and they brought several tracking dogs with them. And despite having nearly three decades having passed, those dogs located an old mattress in the woods with Charles Ray Vine's DNA on it. Shut the fuck up. As well as several several old Cambridge cigarette butts containing DNA. What? And this is crazy. When the original investigators processed the scene in 1994, when Melissa's body was found, they located several Cambridge cigarette butts right near where her body was discovered.

This, again, this feels like it's it.

Feels so strong. Yeah. He was ultimately convicted and sentenced to three life terms for the murders of Lily Jones, Juanita Wofford, and Ruth Henderson. But despite the efforts of FBI and local law enforcement, he refused to talk on the record about Melissa Whitt. And he died in prison in September 2019.

And he is a disgusting looking man, just so everybody knows.

He is Gross. He's heinous. So as of 2024, Melissa Whitt's murder still remains unsolved. If you have any information regarding the murder of Melissa Whitt, you're asked to please call the Fort Smith Police Department at 479-709-5118. 116, or you can email them at info@fortsmithpd. Org.

This is just such a frustrating case.

It's such a frustrating case because every time they felt like they got close and that they had their guy, it was just that the person wouldn't cooperate and they didn't have anything else to hold them there on that or to completely seal the deal.

It's like there's a couple of really good... I feel like he's in there.

For me, Charles Rayvines and I would say- Larry. Larry. Yeah. Larry Swearingen are probably the strongest. Those are my two. And I was really stuck on Larry until I found that the cigarette buts, Charles Ray, the kind that Charles Revine smoked, were right near the body.

That's Very, very interesting.

And an old mattress with his DNA on it. It's like, why was there an old mattress out there?

Yeah. And that's the thing. It's like, what the fuck?

Yeah. Bizarre. Yeah. And just such a tragic, tragic case. Oh, it's an awful, awful case. The fact that her parents died not Yeah. Not having any answers of what happened to their 19-year-old daughter.

No, that makes me sick.

Who had everything going for her. Yeah. Everything going for her. She came from a good family. She was beautiful.

She was well-liked. She was going to be a dental hygienist. Involved in her community. She was doing the damn thing. Yeah.

Yeah. And just went to the bowling alley to hang out with her mom one night after work. That makes me sick. So sad. So guys, if you have... If anybody listening knows anybody with any information or if you have any information. Again, the number that I provided and the email, you can submit an email confidentially and again, submit a tip to that number. It's completely confidential.

If you know anyone, if you saw anything, if your family member remembers something, if you're from the area.

Do you ever heard anything at all?

If you ever heard a damn thing? It's like these things. I'm like, this can be solved. Absolutely.

This can be solved. 100 %.

I want it to happen.

I I'm glad that we did an unsolved case at the top of the year. Yes.

Let's start the year with some fresh ears on it. Let's get it solved. But you know what? If the Lady of the Dunes, the boy in the box, the Somerton Man, if all those things can be can be solved. I mean, decades and decades and decades later, this can be solved.

But yeah, no, I completely agree with you. And so guys, remember, see something, say something. We love you. Be nice to yourself. Be nice to and keep it weird. But not so weird that if you see something, you don't say something, and not so weird that if you have a tip, you don't submit it because you could help a whole entire family and to get justice for a wonderful woman who was killed by a terrible

monster. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining WNDYRI+ in the WNDYRI app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wndyri. Com/survey.