Hey, Choice Words listeners, Sam B. Here. Guess what? We are back with a brand new season of Choice Words from Lemonada Media. Each week, I'll chat with amazing guests like Kerry Washington, Laura Dern, and nick Offerman to dive into the biggest choices they've ever made. We are talking career-shaping, history-changing, life-defining decisions. As someone who has made my own fair share of questionable choices, hello, Bangs. I am pumped to share these funny, poignant, all-too relatable stories with you. Season 2 of Choice Words is out now. Tune in wherever you get your podcast. You won't want to miss it.

I'm Lupita Nyong'o. My new podcast, Mind Your Own, is a storytelling show that navigates what it means to belong all from the African perspective. We're going beyond the headlines to dive into nuanced, intimate stories from Africans around the world. I'm so excited to bring this show to you. Listen to Mind Your Own on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Lemonada. Midlife is a cluster fuck, if I'm going to be really honest. At 51 years old, I'm starting to navigate the ebbs and flows of the unknown. What it looks like for me now is Is kissing my husband of 25 years good night at about eight o'clock at night, heading into my separate bedroom where I need to have the AC set at 61 degrees due to my hot flashes. It's not knowing what Priscilla is going to show up today. It is being seen as an expert in your field because you've worked so hard in your career and raising these amazing human beings that are out doing what they want to do, but at the same time finding peace in being alone. And and knowing that everything is going to be okay. Welcome to My So-Called Midlife, a podcast where we figure out how to stop just getting through it and start actually living it. I'm Reshma Johnny. Okay, I'm what they call a high-achieving woman, but what woman isn't? What it looks like for me is I'm the founder of two nonprofits, Girls Who Code and Mom's First. I got a great guy, two incredible kids, a cute dog.

I've written best-selling books. But, and yes, there is a but, I wake up every day wondering, Is this it? This is something my girlfriends and I talk about all the time. Enduring the midlife, the kids, the deadlines, the wastelines, the schedules, the aging pairs, and the husbands. I feel like all of us midlifers are either dead inside because there's no room for our thoughts or feelings, or we're pressing the nuclear button. We're just blowing shit up because we want to escape it.

I mean, you've read all fours, right?

Where's my hotel room? For me, midlife hit me like a ton of bricks. I turned 42. My soul dog died. My hormones went wild. There was no third baby. My body was changing, and nobody was buying me drinks at the bar. Meanwhile, my husband and I are fighting over who's taking out the trash, and it's me. It's always me. I found myself morning this whole era of my life that I had totally taken for granted. Look, this podcast is my attempt at turning it all around. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to figure this out together, week over week. I'm collecting tips and tricks to make us not just get through this part of our life, but actually live it, from how I love my body to how I find out what I really want in life. Because I'm determined to make midlife the best fucking time of my life. For today's very first episode, I'm going to the source. We're going to talk to a woman who's done exactly what we're looking to do, take midlife by the reins. Julia Louis-Dreyfus, let me tell you all. During her midlife, she experienced some shit, loss, cancer, and she still says it was the best time of her life.

Not to mention, that's also when she crushed her career in Veep. And this year, get this, she's in the Marvel universe in a bodysuit for fuck's sake, at 63. Julia sets a different tone for midlife, one of possibility, of thriving, of joy. Plus, she's just the Yoda of aging. For the Last year in some change, she's been talking to women over 70 on her award-winning podcast, Wiser Than Me. Women like Jane Goodall and Amy Tan are telling her what it feels like to have lived 70, 80, 90 years of life. And you know what? They're all so calm, relaxed, and just fucking happy. So today, I'm going to figure out how we get to that centered easy place sooner and how to get the most out of our midlives.

Hello. Hi, Julia. Nice to meet you.

Hi. Nice to meet you, too.

This is going to be fun. I'm so fucking excited. Let's do it.

Let's do it.

All right.

So I want to talk about getting to know your body again. I know. Super fun way to start. But truthfully, midlife is like a second adolescence. I want to show you your iconic 2014 Rolling Stone cover.

Okay.

I'm going to describe it for people. You're 53. You're not wearing any clothes. We see your back tatted up with a constitution. Your hair's down. It's flowy. You're looking over your shoulder. I mean, it's just incredible.

Well, thank you.

You're exuding a confidence that I don't feel right now. Were you nervous?

Very. It's funny because Mark Seliger, the wonderful, extraordinary photographer, Mark Seliger, with whom I've worked a number of times, as a matter of fact, took this. And there have been more than one occasion that I'm in a photo studio with him, and the next thing you know, I'm taking my clothes off. And that is not, by the way, who I am, personally. I'm just not. And I also didn't realize that so much of my ass was going to be in this. But anyway, I trusted him to do me okay. I mean, I like the concept.

Was this your idea for the cover, or did someone have to convince you to do it?

I want to say it was my idea. We were trying to come up with concept. I think it was my idea. Mark Seliger would have to confirm that. Anyway, so it was either his or mine. But we conferred prior to this because we had to get somebody to do this pretend tattoo on my back, which took a lot of time to get that right, by the way.

I can't imagine. I feel like this cover just shifted the conversation about aging and sexiness because you are undeniably hot.

Oh, God. Thank you so much. I'm not sure it really shifted the conversation. Do you really think that? I'm not sure.

I do think it shifted the conversation. I think it started a trend of older women accepting their bodies, feeling more comfortable, feeling sexy in their middle age. Did they have to convince you to do this cover or were you just game?

If there's a really good concept for a photoshoot, often there is not. Often there is no concept or there is an incredibly shitty concept. That's when I lose my mind. That's when I am very anxious. But if there's a solid idea, and I think this was a solid idea, I'm game. And that's how I felt that day. I was game.

You're game. So that brings me to the last fuckable day. So this is a sketch, right, airs in 2015, one year after this cover. Is it someone's birthday?

Kind of the opposite. We're celebrating Julia's last fuckable day. Salute. What is that? In every actress's life, the media decides when you finally reach the point where you're not believably fuckable anymore.

You're in your early 50s, and this skin is like one year after the Rolling Stone cover. Listen, I'm almost there, and I'm often thinking, I'm just not as sexy or fuckable as I once was. Was this the stuff that was on your mind?

Actually, it wasn't on my mind. This was all Amy Schumer's idea. Amy Schumer wrote the sketch, and Nicole Halleif Center, who's an incredible film director and writer with whom I've worked a number of times now, was directing this particular sketch. And she called me and she said, Would you do it? And I said, It sounded hilarious. Absolutely. But what was so weird was that halfway through, I started to think, Wait, what's going on here? Are we making fun of this because it's true? And I had this weird crisis of confidence. Like, am I not relevant anymore? That's really what it was. It wasn't so much fuckability, although fuckability, unfortunately, is very much linked to relevancy for women. So all of a sudden, I did have this weird out-of-body experience of having a weird lack of confidence. But I got through it.

I mean, is this the first time you felt a lack of confidence?

Yeah, it was weird. I'd never felt that before. I still don't feel that way. I feel relevant and ready It's not for action, Jackson. I'm not talking about it... I don't mean it sexually. I just mean as a human being. I've got a lot more to do, and I've got a lot more to say, and I want to be a part of a lot more. And I feel that very profoundly.

But I still, like I told you, struggle with the changes that are happening in my body and physically. And also because the aspiration or the definition of beauty is someone who's 20 years younger, no matter how good you look. Did you feel like in your midlife, you were still chasing youth?

I don't know if I would call it chasing youth so much as I would call it vanity. I think there's a difference there. I put makeup on to talk to you today. That's a vanity thing. It's funny. I was recently I saw, I don't know if this is true, by the way. It probably isn't. I saw it on Instagram, so it's probably totally false. But there was some study out there saying at 44 and at 60... Did you see this? There's like a shift.

Yeah. 44 and 60 are the two moments where everything goes off the rails.

Physically, there's a big shift aging-wise. Maybe that's true. I'm not here. I'm not positing that as a fact, but I saw that and I thought, Oh, isn't that interesting? I see it. I mean, having had a really serious illness, bring it. Let's go. I'm so happy to be living. I'm here with it. I also say this, I have a mom who's really vibrant. She's 90, and she's very beautiful, but she looks 90. She looks like great, 90, okay? And occasionally, I'll look at something on my bottom and say, Oh, my God, that looks just like mommy's arm. You know? Or, Oh, wow, that is wild. That does not look like how I think my... You know, whatever it is.

Yeah, your legs or your hand looks like, right?

Yeah, exactly. But I have a pride in that because I really admire my mother, and in so many ways, I want to be just like her, and that's always been the case. So I think that's helpful to me for understanding these changes.

Yeah. I also I feel like you're a little like me. I like to call bullshit. And as I've been doing this project, I'm like, Oh, my God, we're being conned. Why is it only for women that the mirror works in reverse? But for men, the older you get, you're George Clooney. You're hot. Salt and pepper, amazing, right? It's the same exact physical things happen, right? The wrinkles on your hands or your legs or your face on a man are seen and described as being sexy, appealing. But for us, it's different. Who decided that? As I've been nerding out about this, just historically, this has been going on since the 1900s.

The social media of it all, is a nightmare, and it's a nightmare for young women in particular. That's a bear to push back against. It's weird because to a certain extent, I think it's better than ever for women. Then in In the same breath, I'll say it's worse.

Yeah.

It's both.

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Oh, interesting. Oh, that's such a mistake.

Yeah. I think that for a lot of women, for my I'll say midlife feels so scary and unfulfilling because you're just in the middle of things. And you often wonder, is this it? Or do I have the energy to chase that project, chase that dream, run for office, whatever that might be? Seinfill ended when you were 38, which I think is a perfect example of this. This is a revolutionary mega hit, made you a household name, and now you're staring down your 40s, and you got two kids, a marriage. At that moment, are you worried about what's coming next? In hindsight, your career then soars, right? Christine, Veepe. But at that time, you didn't know what was around the bend. Can you talk to me a little bit about this time and any advice that you have to get through the moments of not knowing, especially when you're in the middle of your life? And it's harder to have that same amount of hope because you just got less time?

Well, I don't know if this... I mean, for myself, here's the thing about show business, which is different from other careers. It's a gamble. And there's a lot of unknown. And that part of being an actor, I love. I don't know why. I mean, I'm not a gambler in life. I don't like, actually, I hate gambling. But you don't know what's coming around the bend, to me, is exciting. When we finished Seinfeld and my kids were five and one, I guess, thereabouts, I was desperate to be at home. I had been working really, really long hours and full-time. And I was jostled with a lot of anxiety about that while having two children. To have an opportunity to just be home was something I was really laser-focused on. But at the same time, I knew I wasn't done. It wasn't like I thought, Okay, now I'm going to hang up my skates and I'm finished. I just knew I needed a pause. And you wanted that pause? I took the pause, not for super long, frankly, but I took it a couple of years before I jump back in.

I want to get back to what you just said, because I find it really fascinating, interesting, and I relate to it, the sense of that the uncertainty is actually exciting. The unknown is what keeps you alive. It makes you feel more alive. How can you feel that way when you're not an actor, not waiting about your next potential gig?

What is What is that about?

Well, I just think it has to do with the happiness I find in the work that I do. And not everyone can find joy in their work, and I recognize that. But if it's possible to do So if it's possible to do, it should be embraced, because at the end of the day, what the fuck else is there? And so I think that's really what I'm talking about, is try to have a good time with the time you've got, baby. I mean, that's it. I know attorneys who love the work they do and embrace it. I mean, for real. One of my dearest friends is a First Amendment attorney, and she just loves it and is great at it and is still powering up in that game, being a powerful force in that game. I don't know. I think there's something about trying to find the joy if it's possible, if you're lucky enough.

Sometimes it also helps, too, when you have someone who's your cheerleader. For me, that's my husband. He believes in me more than I believe in myself. That's good. I feel like you have that, too, with Brad. Who were those people for you?

My husband for sure, without question. That's it. And of course, it's not like other people haven't been supportive in my life. They have been. But I rely on his judgment and his take on things completely and totally.

Yeah. All right. So finding your joy and finding your people. I have listened to all of your episodes of Wiser Than Me. Okay. And I literally, through my headphones, can feel your awe about the boldness of the women you interviewed. And I wanted to ask you, are you ready to be done with midlife so you can just get there? Are you ready for that third act?

No, I'm not. I feel the trope is true, that life goes by much faster. So, yeah, I'd like to slow things down. Not because I'm afraid of being older, but because I want to enjoy life for as long as possible, if that makes sense.

Yeah. So many of the women you interviewed, right, at their youngest, they're 70. They're on the other side of being middle-aged, and they've really figured their shit out. I want to be there. I don't want to wait till I'm 70 to get there. And what was so interesting is that one of the things they did have in common, that so many of them said that their favorite decade was in their 50s. Yeah. And they say stuff like slow down, but they keep saying 50s was their best. And you have also said that 50s was your favorite decade. What was it about your 50s that resonated so powerfully for you?

I think I was just incredibly comfortable in my own skin. I felt very confident. And by the way, I understand something. I had breast cancer in my 50s, and I had to walk through that shit show, which was really difficult. And yet I still say my 50s were pretty great. By the way, I'm in my early 60s now, and not so bad. Although I will say one thing that's hard about being in this decade is that you start to lose people that you're close to, and there are health issues that come up for those that are dear to you. And so that's a new wrinkle that I hadn't... The parenting of parents and the taking care of loved ones in that sense. God knows, if you're lucky, you're in this position, but it's very difficult. But anyway, yes, back to your question, '50s, dynamite. And I also really like the work I was doing in my '50s. I was really enjoying a lot, and that helped, too. I is artistically very gratified.

I totally hear that. In some ways, I feel that. Professionally, there's still so much that I want to do, but I physically feel like shit.

You do?

Yeah, I physically feel like shit. I am exhausted. I'm in the sandwich generation, so I have a four-year-old, a nine-year-old, and two geriatric, eight-year-old parents who need a lot. So that could be a little bit of it. But I do have this sense that the best of my life is behind me not had a- Oh, no, you're wrong.

You're wrong. Is that how you feel? I do. Oh, I hope you change your point of view.

I do. Maybe in two years, I will because I'm feeling more hopeful about 50s.

But is all rose-colored glasses.

When you're 75, you're like, Yeah, 50 was amazing.

Well, I don't know. I mean, it varies from person to person. I mean, I know it's hard to have young kids and stuff, but it is hard to have young kids. I'm going to sound tropey, but you're going to see it's going to be over. Lickety split. And you will be like, What the hell? The days are long, the years fly by, and nine years from now, you're going to be taking your nine-year-old to college. Now, that's nuts, right? I mean, it's hard to imagine that, but nine years is soon.

Part of it is for a lot of the guests in your show, they say that that was also the time as they got older, that they stopped being the good girl. They stopped living for other people. And still, I feel like at 48, struggle with that. I canceled the dinner last night. I keep feeling guilty about it. And that they have this sense when they let go of being these people-pleasers and these good girls, that they have this moment of liberation.

Yeah.

Did that moment happen for you?

It's happening for me. And I totally empathize with the anxiety you're feeling about canceling the dinner last night. That's something that I wrestle with, that people-pleasing thing, too. But it's less for me now than it was. And so maybe that's just a matter of just more cancelations. You just have to cancel a few more times. You start to get comfortable with it. It's okay.

Is there a tactic? What shifted?

Was it just that when you canceled, your worst nightmare didn't come true?

Well, the people that matter to me, number one, would certainly understand if I had to cancel for whatever the reason is. If they don't understand, I've come to realize that that's certainly not my problem.

How did you learn how to set boundaries? For me, I used to pride myself on Inboxero. If people found me on LinkedIn and emailed me, I always replied back, and it became exhausting. And so I stopped doing it. And that was a boundary I set up for myself. Do you have something like that?

Well, can I tell you something? That I have over 15,000 unread emails.

So you clearly have with that.

And every now and again, I think, Oh, God, I should go through these. And then I'm like, and I start to, and I start to delete, delete, delete. And a lot of it's crap, junk. But I can't. It's too much. So I'm okay with it. I'm hesitatingly okay with it.

Yeah. I feel like the term I saw you use is DGAF, don't give a fuck.

I mean, I wouldn't say I'm not quite there, but let's just I haven't made a move to clean all this stuff out. I could, I guess, just go through it and erase it all, just throw everything out. But then I worry about getting rid of stuff that I actually need. So I don't know.

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So last Life in the middle is hard because you're really busy, and it's hard to be present, hard to find time to enjoy the gifts that you had. One of the things I loved about your Sally Field interview is she talks about the importance of having these quiet moments. She said, lots of times people get stuck. They don't get over the trauma that happened to them when they were young. They don't get over the hang-ups that they had because they haven't had that moment to just sit, reflect, and almost unlearnt. Was that your takeaway, too, from what she said?

Yeah. If I recall correctly, she talked about those kinds of burdens, like a sweater that you can't take off and you're boiling, and you can't take it off. I thought that was an incredible metaphor and absolutely true. I'm a big believer in meditation. The quieting of the mind, I think, is useful. I've done it. I don't do it the way I used to do it, but I do meditate with some frequency, and it's very useful for that quiet mind, which is good for the brain, and it's good for stress levels. And by the way, anything you can do for true deal with stress, really, is a good idea because I I am certain that it will hasten an end. It's not good. It's not good physically. And obviously, there's lots of medical information to support that. But anything you can do to reduce those cortisol levels is a good thing, and meditation falls into that category.

When did you start doing that?

Oh, gosh, when? Mid '50s, I think.

As you have gotten older?

Did your ambition wane or has it grown?

I'd say it's become more laser-focused. I still have ferocious ambition, but it is more directed. Does that make sense?

Yeah. And how did that happen?

I think I have a better understanding of what's worth my time. And that's really just from experience.

Yeah. I mean, some people could say you reach such a pinnacle of success that What more, right?

Yeah, but I don't consider myself that. I don't think of myself like that at all. I want to find my next job, and I think of it like that, if that makes sense.

Do you think you know what that is? Some people be like, All right, the end all be all my life is being President of the United States, or launching a podcast, or writing a book. Is there a thing?

No. Mm-mm. That's why I like what I do so much is that it's a multitude of things.

Yeah. And I think that's the power of finding something that you love because there's not a destination at the end.

Yeah. It's really the journey of finding the good script or project and really sinking your teeth into it. That's just thrilling.

So you said that you started meditating your 50s. And in 2016, you lost your father I'm sorry.

Yeah.

In 2017, you win the Emmy. And the next day, you're diagnosed with breast cancer. And that's all happening in your 50s. But you still say, right? That is your best time.

Yeah.

To me, going through all those things, right? Empty nester, losing someone you love, having cancer, right? That's the definition for so many women in their midlife. It all happens at the same damn time. And none of us are given any tools on how to handle this. So what do you take away from that time of your life that you can then, I guess, gift to us?

Well, I don't know if I have anything to gift, except to say that I think these experiences of loss and trauma strengths were born from those experiences. So, yes, it was horrible to lose my father, and actually also my sister, during that decade. And Yet I have learned to live with the loss, and I feel stronger for it. Same is true of having walked through this cancer diagnosis. And same is true with my kids leaving home. It's a new way of thinking about life. I have now young adult children. I adore it. It is so fun. Wait till you say, For real? Mark my words. I'm not kidding. Wait. You are going to get such a kick out of having your boys be in their 20s doing their thing, being these young adults with eye-opening points of view, stuff like that. That's cool. And that's just surface stuff. And the fact that I can still carry on and take care of myself, even though my father is not on this planet, that makes me feel strong. I think all of those things, as difficult as they were, I'd love to have skipped the cancer piece That would have been really nice.

But there you go. That's life. I think I'm stronger for it.

So talking with you, it's clear you don't share the same framing of midlife. My mindset is, I'm doing, it's all shit. Like, nothing's getting better, right? So how do I change my framing?

I can tell you've changed it. I don't believe the framing that you're telling me. I believe that you have a very upbeat and positive sense because you're exploring the possibilities of midlife in doing this podcast. And I think that's wise as hell. And you will not be convinced otherwise. You shouldn't be. It's a waste. It's a waste. It's a waste. Don't waste your time with it. For real.

Yeah. It's like getting yourself out of these moments. So even if I wanted to take a risk or be bold, it feels impossible Because midlife is chaotic. But for you, shit just got better as you got older. I mean, you had obstacles and challenges, but it didn't stop you.

Yeah, but I think it's a mindset. I think it's a mindset. You got to go into it with open arms, this thing called life. And I think it's a completely different framing. The other is too much anxiety, too much worry. Fuck it. It's just such a waste. A lot of the women that I have actually talked to on my Wiser Than Me podcast, I always ask if you could give your 21-year-old self some advice, what would you say? And a huge portion of these women say, It's going to be okay.

Yeah. And it could not just be okay. It could be fucking great.

Well, how about that idea?

How about that? Fuck about. Well, fuck it. That's my takeaway here, right?

It's going to be...

Don't just live through it. Live it. Live it.

It's going to be fab.

It's going to be fab. All right. Well, you all heard it from Julia. It's going to be fab. Thank you so much.

Thank you. What a pleasure to talk to you. Here are my main takeaways from Julia on how to really live my midlife.

First, midlife is a mindset. I mean, you heard it from the source. You can control it. Two, meditate. We got to lower those cortisol levels. Three, find your people in your community because you know what? Life is long, and we got a ways to go. I'm telling you, if we do it right, we're going to age like fine wine. Julia Louis-Dreyfus is an award-winning actress and podcast host. You can find her podcast, Wiser Than Me, wherever you're listening to this. That's it for the show. See you next week. That's where you heard at the top of this episode about how midlife is a cluster fuck. That was Priscilla Smith. I want to say thank you to her and the dozens of women who sent us voicemails about midlife. You can talk to us, too. Go to speakpipe. Com/midlife. There's more of my so-called Midlife with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like midlife advice that didn't make it into the show. Subscribe now in Apple podcast. I'm your host, Rashma Sajani. Our producer, is Claire Jones. This series is sound designed by Ivan Koryiev. Our theme was composed by Ivan Koryiev and performed by Ryan Juhl, Ivan Koryiev, and Karen Walthtuck.

Additional music by AP PM Music. Our Senior Supervising Producer is Kristin Lepore. Our VP of New Content is Rachel Neil. Executive producers include me, Reshma Sajani, Stephanie Wittels-Wax, and Jessica Kordova-Kramer. Series Consulting and Production Support from Katie Kordova. Help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. Follow My So-Called Midlife wherever you get your podcast, or listen ad-free on Amazon music with your prime membership. Thanks for listening. See you next week. Bye. I'm so excited to tell you about one of our sponsors, Antivorta. It's a wellness brand founded by AAPI Women that is bringing traditional Chinese herbal medicine into modern products for us. It's spelled A-N-T-E-V-O-R-T-A, because I know some of you listeners are already googling this. But wait for the end for a discount code. There's an ethos in Chinese medicine that a woman's health begins in her ovaries. What a powerful statement. I know women can identify with that. Think about all the changes that happen to our bodies over our lifetime that are aligned with this belief. That's where Antivorda comes in. They have intimate products that leave feeling absolutely fresh, allowing you to walk through the world confidently.

I got the Intimate Wipes and the Intimate Spray, and both smell clean and natural. Every one of these products is pH balanced, vegan, safe, and all natural with herbal ingredients. The products fight odor, dryness, and irritation. The packaging is beautiful and discreet, and you will want this on your vanity after your shower, in your purse, basically everywhere. I'm my wipes in my gym bed, which allows me to feel fresh and clean and ready for the day immediately. And while you shop Antivorda, you know you are supporting a women-founded business. Try Antivorda today at www. Antivorda. Com. Antivortalabs. Com. That's A-N-T-E-V-O-R-T-A, LABS, and use the promo code midlife for 15% off site-wide. Antivordalabs. Com. Code midlife.

Why Hello there. It's your old pal, Sarah Silverman, and I'm back with a brand new season of the Sarah Silverman podcast. On my podcast, I am talking about everything, politics. Yeah, we get into it. Favorite sandwich shop in LA? I know a few spots, and I'm going to tell you about them. I'm also going to be talking to you. I will be reacting and responding to listener voicemails in real time. Let me tell you, things can get weird, and I love every second of it. Weird is my comfort zone. The newest season of the Sarah Silverman podcast is out now wherever you get your podcasts.