Happy Scribe
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This is a news laundry podcast and you're listening to. And I'll have the ungrazed up in the Lagana news on the up in a half the carbonite shortell.

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Welcome to another episode of Have Thought The Last of the few that will be available for free on YouTube and on all podcast platforms. Our new website is up for testing, and as soon as we are satisfied with this performance, the halftime show is going to go behind the paywall. So those of you who have been getting it for free will have to start paying again. But many of you have been paying.

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Nevertheless, I thank you for that on the panel today on a huff that we have.

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In fact, we have some new elements on the panel, which I'm sure our listeners will appreciate. First, let me tell you, our usuals romancer here tonight.

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And Manisha High joining us on the phone line from Patna is on Verdana very own. Hello.

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Joining me have two people who are not the usual panelists. One is Ed from Chennai, Jeste, who I have been trying to encourage to get onto the Harfoush. She's been with news long now.

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Hi, everyone. So I'm my two year anniversary is in a couple of weeks.

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Oh, wow. So finally. So I think you should become a regular. Don't have to. In any case, we are accused of not having enough female representation. Yeah, it just took me two years to get here, so.

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And someone from the south and some from the south as well. Exactly.

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We have an any advice.

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And joining us from Bombay is Jason Bogot as he continues. What was I going to introduce?

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I'm in Singapore where they are flying to Singapore. I've got at sars-cov-2. We can't keep track. No, no, thank you. Thank you. Know, because nowadays anyway. But I guess most of our listeners know who Gitanes.

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But for those of you who may have just got into the world and you're an alien, Jayton Faggot is the author of 11 blockbuster books. And several of these are made into blockbuster films as well. The Three Mistakes of My Life. And I did the call center to states, his latest book.

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We'll talk about that as well. But he also writes columns regularly for the Times of India, although it's not so regular these days worldwide. What's that all about? I don't see you as regularly in times of India.

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You should write them on the same frequency. It's once every two weeks. But no, it's the same. Maybe I haven't caught the offence lately, but people know me. Thanks for introducing. People know me. But I'm also the reason why you'll get some hate mail because the pristine Elipse News Library subscribers will be according to them. No, it's not standard Jitendra.

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You've been on a podcast twice before in the last two years. Yes.

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And I think we got pretty decent feedback. And yeah, in fact, me and my teacher were discussing yesterday that we were agreeing on something that disagreeing on some on the one that we agree that Jayton gets unnecessary amount of hate. And that is because of the whole he's not hip and cool and with it because even many hip and I don't want to take names because those people are friends, have written books after having trashed you that are not as good as your books.

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I'm like, dude, you can't spend your life trashing Jayson Blair.

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Write a book which reads like, yeah, I think now people have sort of accepted me and are accepting. I kind of like. But but what?

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But what we also agree on is that you have to stop whining about this now. You are too big.

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Yeah. I can't play victim card anymore. Are you doing that? Yes. Please retire that people are playing it at after superstardom.

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So I am fine but ok, I get your point. I'll try my best not to. Yeah. Yeah. You should just be like whatever. Suck it up.

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No, no I'm super cool man. I'm the best headlocks.

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So you're working on the new book which is being launched sometime.

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And of course will other things of the book launch Gartin I tomorrow pizzicato at the although the common theme gooner laggardly guys Bahram Gordie's 2001 movie references again and then you do and you just tell the world how old we are.

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Millennials are like, what is Lego. Yeah, that's gone.

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So but your new book be able to catch the Millennials and see what is the theme. What is it about.

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I think so. It's I move to Nautilus. I don't want to talk about what's happening to me for the book. Yeah, but it's called Wonderings to My Model and it's very cool man. Just pick it up me send.

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You don't think I said it. OK, we'll do a separate. You don't get a passport if you didn't love it.

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So you have to be it.

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But we will separate this thing for that. Yeah. Because then then you know your ideas will subscribe to you will write to you that you know, this is not a platform for X and Y as if because you guys are held to a standard clearly very different from in the US mainstream media. So if you dare make a side digression or something, it's very bad. So, guys, it's done like.

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So before we start the dialogue with the panel, let's have the headlines. This, Manisha, will give us an Maneesha. Before you do that, I just want to tell you about the free Haftar, which is not going to last very long, but a new website will have our very own podcast player. It has been customized for us. So do check it out. Those of you who are trying out on your website, give us feedback. So before we open it out, you know, we have the best product ready.

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I do share this while it's free with at least five people, you know, so that when we put that behind the paywall, which we shot in a few weeks, that those people subscribe because when the public pays, the public is served, when they show what the headlines do.

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Farm bills were passed on Sunday in both houses and made a lot of ruckus and furor.

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The third farm bill on the essential commodities was also passed on Monday. The next day it Rajya Sabha and was suspended over chaos during the passing of these two farm bills. Sudarshan Tweakings continues. Supreme Court has expressed concerns about balancing free speech and human dignity. Meanwhile, the centre has sent Ashoka's notice to slash TV and said that they violated the cable TV rules. Sixth round of talks after India and China agreed to stop sending more troops to Frontline. So that's good news.

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China has no intention to fight the Cold War or hot war, said Xie Jinping, which is also, I guess, good news. Seatmates Juvenilia Starts Manufacturing Cordage Index Nazel covid-19 Vaccine. India may approve covid-19 vaccines that show 50 percent efficacy in clinical trials. More than 150 nations have joined global covid-19 vaccine plan, meanwhile.

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But U.S. and China are absent from this journalist, Bishan Kanojia, who was jailed about a month ago for some tweets, continues to stay in jail. And the high court has said they'll hear his bail plea after four weeks. Now, Tamilnadu s.M has, meanwhile, written to Prime Minister Modi over representation in cultural Panin. This pertains to a panel of, I think, 16 members who are going to be looking into India's ancient culture. And all of them happen to be men and upper caste and mostly from North India.

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So he said that this should have had representation from the southern states or from Tamil Nadu. Meanwhile, the big opportunity to talk about, among others, have been summoned by the NCP. The speaker is going to make her appearance tomorrow. From what we know, from the stuff that's being reported on news channels, UK PM has started shutting down. Britain again is covid-19 spread's work from whom? He says. US Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, a liberal and a legal icon, died on Friday at the age of 87.

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So, OK, let's just discuss what's happening in the country. I'll come to you first and then we'll go around the panel. We have you for one hour long.

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Do you have me? I have an agreement. So if you want me, great. Yes, I do. But you can take me, you know, like my mom said would look for when when I was a child. My parents tell me that.

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I used to say when we went to a guest house, then I'm going to finish to cut them off. So.

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So you recently did a bunch of it was in your tweets.

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I saw you.

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I think I saw video on Bruta en route, which I thought was very effective.

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I thought you made a point of teaching me how to pronounce it because of the pronunciation, even sometimes. What is it brought on? True. A root root. OK, yeah.

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And in fact, that's one of the things that was one of the things I was setting up it. And then I think that would have more impact than a lot of Ed put together on this whole SSR and frenzy and people putting too much into trying.

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But it's still a drop in the ocean compared to the ocean of glamor that is there and meals to these nights. So it's really hard to compete then.

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You've been a banker.

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You really have a I mean, if you can sell things at a mass scale, you have to have an idea of the pulse of what moves people, what kind of aspirations are what is is India an outlier?

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And it's I mean, as far as the numbers go, we are clearly an outlier in how badly we've slowed down. What can be done to set it right.

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Put on your capitalist hat at the same time, put on your socialist hat based on your being able to communicate with the non metro elite.

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Yeah, yeah. So basically, you know, we we did the world's best locked and we attempted at least the fact that people may have followed. And when we do the world's best logged on, you will have the world's biggest contraction. So one goes. So like we cut out all flights, we cut our dreams. Like these are major, major moves. They're even in the US. They look like domestic flights. They didn't cut their transport between states.

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That was never ending. So we didn't do a very strict lockdown. And because of that, the biggest contraction has happened. Unfortunately, we are not such a huge economy that we can simply bounce back. I think a lot of things, things need to be strong to bounce back and they're just broken. The harbor is closed or phone companies closed, or if the event closes down or a lot of companies run out of cash, they just can't bounce back even when things are OK, you know?

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So I think so the capitalist had and the socialist type would have be to get out of this. It's not easy. It's not easy, frankly. But at the same time, I think that would be immediate. They should be literally fiscal measures like give people money. Those who have been suffering the most find a way to disseminate the money. Really, because that's the fastest thing you can do. Right? You can do wire transfers to people.

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Any other scheme will take a while to to come in. And second thing is to, I think, really do a 90, 91 style like make a big deal out liberalization, kind of economic policy package that opens up the economy, not in name, not in headline management, but something that the world notices and says, oh, India really changed the policy on this. And it's a far more open economy now. And maybe it's worth thinking about sort of niggling concerns of India, like ease of doing business and all literally needs to be legal protections given to businesses that they cannot be harassed or policy cannot be retrospectively applied.

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So those kind of things will have to be done.

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And but but are you disappointed with how badly or meekly or reluctantly or not at all mainstream media is taking this up or are we just obsessed with broadcast? And these issues are being discussed at length in newspapers and maybe on the day she can come in after after Jayton and tell us about, you know, the language media is taking these issues up. But are you disappointed yet?

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And you must be to hear everyone's views. But I'm not at all disappointed. I think the media is not is a mirror. I mean, people are not interested, not interested in these news items. So why are we holding them to be the modern science teacher in class? People are not. I'm disappointed in the people of India who love entertainment so much. I mean, there was a time when I grew up you used to be out there.

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Now you can't even mention it like it's like what is super hot? Six songs, guys. Let me tell you what is different in today's Imagine six song playlist playlists.

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And that's what it is. It's songs, fixed playlist for twenty minutes. It will be played Wednesday at eight o'clock for twenty minutes in black and white. And you watch it all, you miss it.

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And that's one of the highlight of the entertainment you get to see in the week on Sunday when you get one pop song, fun song in that 40 minute show and like nine times out of ten, just Funkytown wanted to do it and I don't want to get busy.

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Fifteen minutes of human emotion and the master of the universe. But to keep and now we come to an end there where data is so cheap that you can imagine yourself in entertainment all the time. Right. You can watch YouTube videos, Instagram. They won't let you leave. I mean, you see the social dilemma, everybody. So they won't let you leave. And you can watch that. You can watch Netflix. Fine. You can open. It's everywhere.

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So I think people of India, at least when you open the news, please don't expect to be sold entertainment. I mean, it's not fair. Wahabi entertainment, Bollywood to lobby uncle. You need, like, you know, pictures of all these actresses and glamorous clothes and only then Deunan. I mean, and that's not going to be good for you. I mean, I'm sorry to sound like a preacher, but that's going to have consequences because you basically said we are not in our society.

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We don't care about us. Incentivize your disincentives.

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Any serious conversation around decision? Yeah, every man for himself. Every woman for himself. It's like closer and closer to how things happen in the jungle. If you played music in the jungle, it's not like that. I would start watching what happened with the foxes. Right. Everybody's trying to protect themselves, get their own food. And I think the guys, kind of especially the middle class that watches the news is is not really interested in debating.

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We should do OK. Forget about GDP. Jermoluk a bit technical, but should be open schools. You know what classes should be allowed to go. What do we do about board exams? What do we do? What next year? What do we do if a vaccine is found or not? I mean, these are things that matter. I mean, these are things of human interest stories and people are not interested. And the more entertainment you back, the more they come.

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And, you know, the moment the channels shift to the other news items, they will not watch the news. So the assumption that if the media showed some other news, the viewers will remain. It's not true. The viewers leave.

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No, I completely agree with you on that. They are still the entertainment is there in the news if and if that is why some of the anchors try very hard to. I don't want entertainment. Yeah, right.

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We'll be talking about that. It was just a fracas today in Bombay, where it just crossed all levels, but we'll discuss that in a little more detail.

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But Justine, Tamilnadu in the language media, is there discussion on any of these issues that we would consider more significant or that it says bad? What what is your reading?

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So, I mean, I think that Nadu media in general is a bit of an outlier. It's sort of famous, more serious coverage than entertainment news. So like right now on TV channels, in newspapers, whether it's somewhere or English or whatever. So the focus is on schools opening. There's a court case that's going on about school fees. Then the government had constituted the sort of high level comedy to suggest ideas for economic growth. So that's been covered in great detail.

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I think the former RBA governor is heading it. So India not only to give it to headlines and like these reports and stuff, but they also consistently have debates on it. And when it comes to entertainment news, I think that sort of draws the line of sensationalism, like even when Jayalalithaa died, which was extremely shocking. And she was a very large figure in Tamminen. So even when she died, coverage of her ended at the funeral like.

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So from then on, it was discussions on politics, the future of her party and things like that.

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So there's very little space for this sort of dramatic stuff that you see on North Indian shows, which in my opinion, which is kind of ironic, considering that is the hub for stars becoming bigger than larger than life like nowhere else.

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Yeah, even one very famous film stars died in the last one I could think of would be Shiva Diggnation. So, again, I mean, there was a lot of coverage of how he was, what he did, how he died. But it never really crossed those lines of speculation or you know, and I think we've done a piece recently and it was one reason the stations engage with coverage as well. So I never really bought into that entire drug scandal sort of drama that surrounded it.

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It would just sort of be has new residents then I don't think people in the world would really have watched. It says that it's not that big of a deal.

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But I think also but I mean, it may be true for Tamil Nadu.

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I won't say it's true for all of South, because in Rajkumar I like, you know, the buses that was there in Bangalore, the buses were set aflame and people started writing, I mean, died of natural causes. No one killed them.

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No, I'm sorry. I think you have to also understand the presence of a second suspect in this. If, like the cook was the main suspect and such, I think, yes, it would still be a big story.

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But the moment you bring a beautiful film actress who's like Current and she is the main suspect that somebody like you put the equivalent of, I think, any film industry. And I think the media would just run with it.

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But there was a Rajkumar thing that she was saying not to go. But I mean, I'm thinking of the Telugu media has been extremely sensationalist. So it's not a South Indian phenomenon like I think would she a it was a fairly good TV channel that reenacted how she lay down in the bathtub, but also they had an anchor line down. So, you know, so it's not specific to South India, but I would think that we're not in general, there's more to strain.

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I just want to add that probably we're also conflating the media with North Indian media. I mean, I to tell you that probably papers in Bihar or local channels are not giving it the kind of prominence I never got and I don't know about.

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OK, then let's ask another before that. She we just want to syncytial have thought that you just tell our listeners and you will be, you know, at least once or twice a month be regular about yourself. You've been in Chennai, you've worked there all before so people know who you are.

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I'm in Chennai. I've been a journalist for about 11 years. So I started off with The Hindu. But just before I was on, my most recent job was with Fontanet magazine, which is a long form reporting. Sadly, it shut down a few months ago, yet another casualty of the industry. But yeah.

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And you've always lived in Tamil Nadu. Yeah.

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More or less so for enough time that it feels like all my life. But you're full on Tamil. Yeah, for long time. Very late summer.

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So we're going to now you can tell us about since you talk the most about this avulsion from all of us elites, you grudgingly somehow make up the meaning of the Jayton, Bugatti books.

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Is it the entry point of literature for a lot of people in, let's say, Bihar yuppy and that belt? And also, if you could weigh in on is is the language media within Bihar as frivolous as what we call daily media?

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I think those two questions, related or unrelated, whatever, take them as you want.

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Maybe my interaction with the generation whose entry point into the world of letters is like people like Chewton. I don't interact with much. My interaction with them is more in a teacher student question, which then is not discussed, unfortunately so. Because of the demands of the celebrities and things, so I don't get to discuss these things with them, so I am not in sync with that generation of young readers. So I sought to restrict myself from commenting on that, the very nature of regional media, because is she in the front pages, more like the Times of India policy kind of offering with tidbits of a lot of things happening in the state as well as the country.

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So it is very informative in newspapers. It can be very minor crime stories or something that the Punjab has done or the local party has done or some statement by some politician minister or something. Also the media. And so a lot of local and even hyper local content. So that that does not leave much of a space for a very narrative driven frivolity or is frivolous coverage.

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But what about the other channels? Are they like Bhojpuri, channels, news channels? Are they like local, like, you know, when you go to Tamil Nadu or Karnataka or even in Gujarat, Punjab, that what a lot of local news channels are they not those in Bihar there would be in Hindi.

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I'm also so so so actually the language of news media is not Hindi. So I mean, even Delhi media people running daily media, most of the people are from my neck in the background in the media in Delhi, because that's the kind of Hindi spoken in Delhi would not run your Hindi channels. So the people who speak monarch Hindi, what you can see the correct to grammatically correct and the more from the monarch can be buried. So like I like equality, equality of equality that is not monarch and the monarchy across the Hindi heartland belt.

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Whether it is be allowed to be or behind the language of the regional media is Monacan, Pourri, McGahey, Matley. And these are the dialects. These are not the, you can say the language of media or academic discourse, though, Matley. It has a literature of its own. And the Bhojpuri channel, once they had started over, it was pretty channel, but I don't see it now.

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So so I guess the odds ducks and the Hindi channels fill the gap. So there's no real space for regional channels to bloom in there.

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Are there regional channels? But what I am saying is the language is in the of demilitarising as these local channels obsessed with necessar in the way that anod Stuckey's know it in the same way.

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So what I'm saying is that these local channels are more intruder's than formats. They are more in news reading for me. They have a lot of information to give in fifteen minutes. So they would of course place essays are there also. But just to see I mean you are you asked me basically or you who are you. I thought they would cover it but they have a lot of things to say within fifteen minutes. So they are morning news bulletin board.

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Right.

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So dumb and such money. So you want to come in before I go back to Japan on my next issue?

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No, I think one thing that at least from Jonathans, what they've said about the media that they're consuming is that it's quite interesting that while anchors love to say the nation's voice and the nation wants justice and the nation wants this and that, they're not really at all watched by the nation.

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Yeah, and that is something that is something so fascinating about this whole case. Also that how something like this can simply be manufactured by studios in Delhi and one channel in Bombay and in IDL, and that's it. And then you have the whole nation believing that this is the most important issue. But even for the nation, it's not the most important issue.

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But I think the influence and the influence that they are not watching is not correct. What I am saying is that these regional channels co-exist with other popular in channels. So for hyper local content, people may be tuning into these regional channels, but they consume, said the popular Hindi channels they are stuck on. What is that indeed? We are CNN or think they do consume it. These channels also in use numbers, right?

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Actually, of people in Tamil Nadu, which are not what I was actually going to say that I don't think the public.

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So much, but like they would watch times now, because Times now has a very solid South India bureau. So they actually do a lot of good local sort of stories with the bureau here, but it never makes it on air.

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Yeah, but as far as the public numbers are concerned, I mean, I wouldn't really say that I was sort of driving any conversation and thought out, like maybe you might follow it on Twitter. You might watch a little bit on TV if you catch it, but I don't think people are seeking them out. So it's definitely an exclusion from this entire nation wants to know.

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Not right now, Chiton. You know, I want to come to the farm bill. Bill, there was more than one bill. But before that, you know, I was this was broadcast on the American economy.

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And it's fascinating that, you know, they conduct these polls of these research and opinion polls every month. Are you satisfied with the financial status question? There are more people, I think, in the mid 70s who are satisfied, like, of course, that the last results that they got was of about two months ago and that you're not at six hundred dollars plus that six hundred dollars, everyone, that payment protection program and the direct cash transfer, what you're talking about, they did in America, everybody got 12 dollars.

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It was done then. So there a slight bounce back and people were more satisfied at that time than before the pandemic hit. So I think people's expectations had gone so far down in March, April, that by May, June, even if you were slightly OK, you felt more comfortable because, you know, I travel out of the aptly named Seattle area.

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So right now in America, people are more, at least by that research that they did, are more financially comfortable than they were pre pandemic, which is fascinating.

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Yeah, I think, you know, people in March were expecting, like they used to, they had this coming. And if you remember, they were these people making models that Colbert is just going to go exponential. And, yes, hundreds of millions of cases and millions of people are going to die and are going to have lives outside of people dying. So cold has not gone away as fast as we would have liked. But it is kind of like there is some stabilization, which is in a good way.

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And so it's good because it's not exponential anymore as much, but it's also bad because it's not even retreating. So I think people and the US basically took a lot of steps. They literally put a trillion dollars into the economy, money in the hands of people, which and it was a substantial amount of money even for them. So I think they did feel some sense of control. I think the job losses while they were there in certain sectors are law abiding.

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Those hospitality travel. A couple of the sectors, you know, companies really tried to not to move people from their technology. Clean technology wise, US has excellent infrastructure already in place. So that will probably happen very not just happened faster for them, Amazon and groceries, everything like life.

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When you talk about spending our way out of this, like to give direct cash. I read a piece, by the way, called Who I Really Like.

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You know, they call said that India can't afford to spend its way out because I mean, yes.

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And he's absolutely right. We can can only get cash transfers. And remember, the Diski before the election, which Congress had proposed, was also in question. Thirty two thousand a year. They said how in the end that's money. So and that was to the bottom, like people with the lower income and even that we can't afford.

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So it is difficult and we can't manage inflation the way those guys can manage inflation. You don't, because in any case, we have the.

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Yeah, but, you know, just to the weakest section. But you said, well, the socialist and capitalism, without that to balance the lockdown's, you benefit your country.

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We we we just have more casualties because we are poor. And right now it's a tricky balance. And in India, we can't afford those European style or even American style of those on board.

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OK, you know, before we move to the farm, I just want to get on with the media. Just wanted to discuss one thing quickly, which is that today we'll get the details of this and there'll be a detailed report put out on this, which Patika is going to be doing. But I'll just tell you briefly what happened. I think outside of the CBO, somewhere where there were all the media was there of different TV channels. And there is this guy who is a psephologist or he's a joke or he's an entertainer of the what he is reporting for public sympathy.

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Bhandari and he got into a scrap with apparently he taunted some individuals and he said, maybe if you don't listen, then they use an evil guy also. And then someone hit someone. And then we're getting details and the very ugly scenes of these bunch upset with the boundaries on the and he's the same guy you've seen running around. And he's our no official sidekick.

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Now, I had done this with scoop up something called dumb questions only on the media and on the status of the media.

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And I had kind of gone into that. When in the name of anti elitism, you become an anti intellectual movement, which means that any buffoon is given a show and I'll just shout, as Maneesha said, it will soon be that there'll be this free for all happening in the court. And I'm rather sad to say that that has come true. I had said in a few months it has come true in a few weeks now, all citizens apart.

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I will just like the panel's views on who would you blame for this, because I don't believe here that all sadism and I don't think there's a one off, you will see this happen rather than media stick by each other, will be coming to blows at every press conference so that you want to go first, or do you know what I'm talking about? I've seen the video. Yes.

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I want to see what I can imagine the video. And I think it there used to be unwritten rule that the journalist himself or herself should not become the story. But today we live in times of hyper reality television, whatever it is, hyperreality, real conflict, real fight, a real murder, a real suspect is is going to get more eyeballs. And these kind of things are happening. And if you draw any eyeballs and views and lights are all that matters, then this is excellent content.

[00:31:09]

If you just leave the morality aspect or whatever aspect of it, it is amazing content. Like, let's say you bring a pet monkey to go there, literally animal monkey with Amite and go there to interview someone and you get managed to get a shot of that. That's going to go. What I can tell you right now is to shoot someone in the monkey. I don't know if you can.

[00:31:29]

I I thought that's a pretty story was someone told me that I was literally maybe literally I don't know anything. Anything is fair game. And I think some people have turned it into an art form. The only problem is it becomes a slippery slope because once you begin this game, there is no rolling back, no screens every night and he's upset every night. He better be upset every night. You come on down to the ideal. We should just calmly got things out.

[00:32:02]

You get room, you know.

[00:32:04]

So he's playing a character. He's almost playing a character, and he just becomes slippery slope and it goes into violence.

[00:32:11]

And today, what you're telling me is, is almost borderline violence and what it's like geek and bomb struck each other and then police had to pull journalists apart. I mean, you have to see the video again.

[00:32:25]

Can I have a what did you just say? I mean, you have to see the video. Haven't you said it.

[00:32:34]

You have to see the video. So if you take anything, nothing else matters. But you have to see the video and it's borderline legal or illegal things. Otherwise it'll be like doing illegal acts because so that people can watch. So this is a doctor in a way that their business models of all these media also collapsed. I mean, literally two companies, Facebook and Google, literally. It's like a huge vacuum cleaners that have come. And I'm just surprised they're still surviving the others.

[00:33:04]

They still I mean, how difficult it must be to get ads because the online is very bad.

[00:33:08]

Don't exactly you have to jump through hoops to get someone to give you.

[00:33:13]

This should have been you know, this should have been this model could have been reinvented. In fact, Apple is trying it now by newspapers. Basically, you pay a certain amount of money. It's a subscription model, but you get twenty. Yes, more than that.

[00:33:26]

In fact, I just got an email from some startup founder who said that rather than each news outlet having its own subscription, he wants to set up a platform where, you know, maybe fifteen new subscribers and he'll divided amongst us. So I'm going to have a chat.

[00:33:39]

Listen, why don't why didn't the media also say, well, that is what I've said. The legacy media country was so lazy because it was, you know, coming in. But which is why I say that when the public pays the public, a certain rights are reserved and the news also goes to the shits.

[00:33:53]

So I'm glad that is.

[00:33:56]

And I think Indians particularly like this kind of drama. We are very fond of, like, you know, whenever there's a fight on the road, people gather around and watch it on it. It's very entertaining. And we love entertainment.

[00:34:09]

I don't know, we want entertainment and everything because otherwise our unhappiness index, just so you know, we are lower than Pakistan considering economically the election is ahead of them. Clearly, we like happiness. But I want to move to the farm bill.

[00:34:22]

Manisha, just quickly get ready to give us just brief of how the bill was passed and some specifics.

[00:34:27]

And I'd like to get the panel's views on that bill, but I have a couple of emails that I would like the panel's views on. Also, this maelstrom from Apiata. It is a big hello to everyone at News Laundry. I recently subscribed. I'm writing this after watching dumb questions only by Scoop Poop in the recent episode been on and explained the line when the consumer is paying, the consumer served very beautifully by giving an example of how the entire news media thrives by creating ad space for advertisers.

[00:34:54]

If you're reading this mail, I insist that you talk about it again. Well, if it's that we've spoken about it so we don't have to do it again. I'd like to hear from the Diadema after their opinion on the current state of the education system in our country and what really needs to change. I'm looking for some recommendations which help in understanding the need for education. And last but not least, money is my favorite. Yay!

[00:35:13]

Good, great.

[00:35:13]

So before I move to the next minute, agriculture, if I could just quickly ask her on the panel to give in a minute or a half, what are the fundamental changes you do to the education system in a country like it wanted recommendations? Jesse, can you give us please?

[00:35:27]

I think the education system right now is still currently favors a particular class of cost. So, I mean, even when you look at the neat examples like the fights that up and quartos that are breaking out over it in that manner is because they don't think that it sustains values of social justice and equality. And I think the title of the education system as a whole, I mean, those who have the means can aspire to do whatever they want, but those without are sort of stuck in the cycle of never breaking out of it.

[00:35:55]

And yet, more specifically, I think the education system right now is built on a system of rote. It's just rote learning. You're not running what concepts you're not encouraged to think conceptually or question even say. I mean, I think fundamentally there's a lot that we need to do when it comes to education.

[00:36:11]

And so what would you recommend? No, I think we need to bring in technology if you really want. I mean, the city has already said that whole, you know, of a system is riddled with rote learning, poverty, and so everybody is not able to have this education.

[00:36:29]

So I think technology can bring in, you know, like how I mean, because the is something one thing that is clear is the people who can't afford smartphones or laptops get left out of classes because all the kids in the schools are having that problem. But technology also has to be accessible. Right to the.

[00:36:46]

That's what I'm saying to you. Each one of us should have an access to technology that all children should have access to the Internet physicals on.

[00:36:54]

And what is your recommendation?

[00:36:56]

What would you change about the education system at a fundamental level, if you could, is the classroom teaching is not really important and that Indians have to realize sooner or later, under too much premium being placed on going to schools and universities and attending classes so that a lot of the brightest students you find who don't are not very active in classrooms and still grasp a lot more. Now, that is not only because they are somehow different, they have different ability or something, but because of the dissemination of knowledge and information can have many alternate routes.

[00:37:47]

Now, this has to be looked at, but I don't think that it's in in long term it can be addressed. Second is that there is too much of this new fangled ideas of say that encourage creative thinking and encourages the innovative thinking. Now, these are the things that the students who wish to do that are you cannot produce them in their classrooms or through curriculum changes or something. We need to have a balance between content, the quantity of syllabus.

[00:38:28]

Lot of trade is the earlier methods or our content, the high content. What do people despise as heavy school bags? Now, a lot of them was necessary also because people need to know that what is the history of ideas, suppose in physics? And they are doing something which has already been done 200 years ago, and they need to either challenge it or critique it or do something else, but they have to be aware of it. But they know that this has already been done.

[00:39:01]

And the history of basically every academic subject is a history of ideas, history of kings discovered not of either falsified or to discover. You need to go through certain quantity of information and knowledge. And just to say that no, no, lessen the burden and just creative thinking and some innovative thinking. Now, both are not necessarily mutually exclusive and we need to have a balance of both that and that is understood.

[00:39:38]

Oh, Chetan, what what would you since you have gone to items and ideas and all these centres of excellence, need the need for or custom discuss. But in the realm of what people are saying, somebody mentioned I mean, there it's tougher for the more certain costs to go, but there are innovations for them. That's the one vehicle or maybe not it's not enough, but it's not just cost a lot of poor people, even whatever cars they are, they find it really difficult.

[00:40:09]

And that is also never discussed somehow. It's only about which cost you are. But that's, again, like I said, a very long discussion. And I on the lot just on those comments, I respect them a lot, but I don't think it's always about like old new fangled creativity, know this kind of cynicism, that this is new fangled telling, giving it. No, that's not true. That's not true at all. I mean, I can I personally know, for example, one of my juniors from I think started a company called Tenkile and they made cheap, very cheap science experiment equipment for schools that don't have labs like small kinetic energy, potential energy, things like that.

[00:40:48]

If you have a lab in school, you learn it. If you don't want to store the tinker around, for example, they are doing it. I know, for example, and of course, this is in Singapore, but it's an English class which could easily be done in India. They will study a story from a reader, which I mean and then I used to just memorize the five questions at the end of the story. Now look at the story from a feminist lens, from a communist lens.

[00:41:13]

From this lens from that. Yeah, exactly. These are being taught. And now these are very expensive solutions. This is not I'm not recommending you have a robotics lab. These are things. If you teach people how to think, if you are you do you know this is all the Western ones we are seeing how these people are obsessed about the wrong things in the country, how these people just they want entertainment and emotions. Why? Because they are not being taught to think they don't know how to think and we can teach them if we believe that we can.

[00:41:47]

What do you mean by the new fangled and these are not political. These are like only the Racheli stopping. No, you can absolutely do it at any level. Again, it's how you approach it. And I think we haven't we haven't really talked about how important it is to teach our kids, I think our culture. It's a very long discussion about a one tiny example I always give. This example is that if you have a 40 year old with a father in a park and it starts raining in India, the father and in the in, say, a country like the US, they would say it's raining.

[00:42:20]

Do you want to go home? You see the difference. It's the same thing, but it's asking the child to make a decision. Do you want to go home? And the child says yes. Anyhow, I'm just saying it's our culture to not make people think it's our culture and that we are seeing the results of that in the kind of country we've made that we know that we are doing wrong things, but we don't know what to do about it.

[00:42:44]

They don't say who wants this. If I say together Ayaz ever dies, obviously it doesn't matter.

[00:42:50]

I'm going to be good. There is going to be millions of young people who are going to finish graduation master's and not get a job. They'll be struggling to become delivery boys and they'll be frustrated and angry and they'll be unproductive to me because they're frustrated.

[00:43:07]

But I think that they don't know how to think. They don't know that maybe we should get together and talk about this, you know?

[00:43:15]

No, absolutely right. It's frustration. But, you know, I don't have any specific interventions of I mean, although I come from a generation of of teachers and even that cost privilege, you don't realize it's controversial. You know, you discuss it.

[00:43:31]

And when you become an adult, say two or three things I want to say. One is based on my own education. I went to a school that was considered very elite and we had children from, you know, scholarship students who are from poor families. And we've had that from very long before this compulsion.

[00:43:47]

All that. Now, I can just tell you, based on my experience in school where everyone's landed up, the kids who are very bright, I'm done with the Topper's, they have graduated in life, whether in India or abroad. So clearly, Fotopoulos, that is something to be said about the Indian system, some of them overseas, some of them are here, but they are like at a different and at least four of those kids, not kids anymore.

[00:44:08]

And therefore these are kids who are from BPL families studying in a school where, you know, you had the knots and the noise and all the industrial and the Modise and all the kids who are really fucked academically have remained kind of fucked in careers.

[00:44:26]

But the vast middle, the kids who were like the second level Dopplers, you know, not the top ones, but it also the nineties, unless they had family business, they ended up nowhere who were considered academically bright. So clearly academic excellence was not enough at that time because the kids were the Millers. They have really excelled in their professions because they study, they read at home. They didn't necessarily read to pass an exam.

[00:44:52]

I mean, they were not academically inclined, right? I mean, they're just not academically. Yeah, that is one thing.

[00:44:58]

And the second thing is that. I completely agree about going to school. You know, I come from a family, my mother's side, most of them started going to school only when they had to take the 10th exam because you can't do it at home. But one realizes that is not a privilege. Everyone has it because you are, you know, from a tambra household where everybody's been a teacher for five generations. So even my niece and nephew, they've only gone to school to take the exam.

[00:45:22]

Otherwise they've been home schooled.

[00:45:24]

But not everybody can do that. And and now that they're attending this idea, whatever image or whatever, I'm just blown away by the kind of decisions that they have to take.

[00:45:33]

I was like, no one asked us that. Not I don't think it's nice. I know. And I feel all you guys on the street, I mean, everybody can watch a YouTube video and learn how to do things right. All you can watch a YouTube video about what is the ultimate with for dinner. And you I mean, are you are you going to put this on the education system and privilege? Because people need to take some responsibility to better themselves, too.

[00:45:55]

And these days you can watch and learn and get ahead in life by doing things like I mean, I'm sorry, it's not very popular to an extent.

[00:46:05]

I agree.

[00:46:05]

But I think you also have to see that hard work will pay dividends for a lot of families who don't see that, don't believe that because we are poor and our economy is so small and we have millions of young people who are bright and talented and you don't have jobs for all of them.

[00:46:19]

OK, no money shall tell us about schools. That's what I'm saying. Now you'll tell us your intervention and then you will go on. But I'm a complete anarchist. One of the only things on Pakistan is the schooling. I hate schools. I've I hated going to school. Everything from wearing a uniform to fucking doing homework to keeping notebooks. I hated the idea of notebooks, keynotes now and as you know, isolated and scary.

[00:46:43]

But I could never, like, make a copy. I always liked reading from books. And I, I mean, I think I stopped making I know what's wrong with our education system then. Everything I hate, I mean, everything about schooling.

[00:46:53]

Instead, the focus on discipline, this this whole and especially like I think in Indian schools, you almost have teachers who are morbidly I think they derive some sort of power having control over students. So this excessive like, you know, other unique Arato to me, Jaga, I mean, kids, I think the biggest problem in our schooling is one is that there's too much emphasis on field. The kids are taught to just be scared of each other.

[00:47:19]

Must be one teacher you have in mind.

[00:47:22]

I know. I know all of this is sounding so positive. No, if you don't if you don't do this, you will be you know, then this will happen.

[00:47:30]

If you don't do your homework, you'll be sent out. So the focus on fear and I think also, like most teachers, are talentless people who failed in most of the things in their lives.

[00:47:39]

Very few people become teachers because they love teaching that I agree with them. And why would you?

[00:47:44]

Because it's not I mean, I think for that you have to pay people well, you can't expect committed, talented people to come to a profession when you're not paying them. Well, but I think that one of the biggest problems is that most teachers are talentless losers, not being able to do anything with that.

[00:47:58]

And they take all the guys out of they don't like. I completely agree. Like you give two examples.

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I've gone to a village doing some stories. So there I saw one drama teacher teaching in a village full of children.

[00:48:15]

It was really so there the children, you know, starting in fifth class, they could not write and they could not even write to me because I was checking. There was a story on the midday meal, so I had gone with the reporter. So on those Matemwe I saw, each one of them had a thumb impression. So I checked quite interesting there. Still so that Brahmin teacher deliberately, these children not too well.

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So this is another thing. The realities are very different from this scenario.

[00:48:46]

And I want to say something about what she said. And so I think I might have lacked clarity or even an injunction that I think that creative thinking should not be encouraged. What I said, that creative thinking and a lot of information and knowledge needed both are not mutually exclusive to the baby, should not be thrown with the bathwater. Are you hiding it for certain level of learning knowledge? You need to study. There is no other way. There is no substitute to study something and lessening the burden or something.

[00:49:28]

I think that has to be revised. And the external stimulation, creative thinking through institutional means, like in schools or universities that can go hand in hand with the pursuing the what is known and decried as a load of information, load of knowledge. You need to, I think, receive that load of information and so on.

[00:49:55]

Manisha, just tell us what what was the fracas all about? Why is this? So basically, this pertains to the farm bill. And there are three farm bills, and mostly these pertain to how farmers will sell their produce to cold storage warehouse and also a framework of contract farming, which is that a producer and a farmer decides what will be produced before it's produced. So there are reforms within the sector. On Sunday, there was a bit of a debate in Upper House, right just about on these bills.

[00:50:22]

The opposition wanted a division vote on this, which means that they wanted to register their vote and they didn't want to carry a voice vote, which is that the speaker asks, yes, no Moloto. They went ahead with doing the voice vote, which again, like if you see the video, the speaker asks, like, I think those in favor say, I can't hear any. But he says that I have it. So clearly, they bulldozed it through.

[00:50:46]

And the opposition also wanted to be sent to a select committee. So clearly, the opposition was legitimate in this concern that because there have been a lot of protests around this and this is now fairly sweeping reforms, they wanted more debate and probably to be sent to a select committee that didn't happen, after which the opposition went to local sentencing was like snatching it on mikes and hitting people. D'Errico Brown was running from one place to the other and I just about to be muted the proceedings.

[00:51:11]

I think the first time in the history of India where I just about to be muted the proceedings. But this was hard because you could just see you could see what people were doing, but you couldn't hear anything. And the bills were passed. And since then, the opposition has been on a burner. And thankfully, it was shared by the power to pass as many laws as we want.

[00:51:29]

So briefly that there's an explainer on this by May not using dot com. You can check out that explainer and we'd like to do many more as explained in Hindi and English. So do subscribe and pay to keep news free, because when you guys support us and help us sustain ourselves and we have, you know, I think crossed 5000 subscribers now and we want to aim for ten thousand paying subscribers by the end by the Valley.

[00:51:53]

So I really hope you guys do it. I don't have a view on this bill one way or the other. But what I do not remember from back when I was I was working on this whole water privatization thing, I had read some papers on contract farming in Mexico and how it completely destroyed farms because as opposed to, you know, farmers growing stuff based on what is required to be eaten when you have mega level corporations dealing in futures and I'm talking about in the market, it's not just oil futures and zinc and copper and iron commodity trading that happens.

[00:52:27]

You know, trading happens also in agricultural produce and their futures and that as well. Now, I don't know, maybe chiton can tell us. I don't know what the because, you know, short short selling is outlawed in India.

[00:52:37]

I don't know what the laws are trading for, for grain and other such a market level or at any futures market in India, or can you trade in Indian grain in Western markets.

[00:52:49]

But what happened with corporate farming in Mexico was that because the entire focus of large multinational corporations was how it impacts you to just like airlines used to earn more money in trading in fuel rather than actually flying passengers. Similarly, it was not the produce for the sake of the food that determined what the contracts ended up being in contract farming. But how the market responded to that completely destroyed entire communities. Now, I don't know if that's true and I mean if that's true for here, if that's going to happen here.

[00:53:22]

Yeah, but I don't have a position on this issue, is what I'm saying.

[00:53:26]

But Jayton, if you could tell us and maybe I know I kind of would guess that this would be discussed today and I've been spending time trying to learn it to see the overall bill and the is in the right direction because you do need agriculture to get more returns. You need to take it out of the clutches of the state a little bit, because technically, if a farmer has more options, if there's more depth to the market, if you can buy, sell, trade, move anywhere, you get the best price discovery.

[00:53:56]

So the farmer gets the best return. Right. So there is nothing wrong in that. However, there are three issues, I think, that are coming in this which are there specific to this government and this bill. One is the execution because a lot of brilliant, brilliantly intentioned things have not been executed the way they were intended. And that has happened again and again and again. So while it is nice to say that farmers will have choice and if they can't, then government is always there to buy it.

[00:54:25]

You know, it's it's kind of not sure how it's all going to go. The kind of problems you are saying may happen, private players may exploit. Then, for example, the mechanism for if there is a dispute that is a good result, there is something in place that some bureaucrat or some officer at that level unsorted, but they can be bribed. Given the reality of execution, issues will be there. And I think the government has to be there for a long time to be the buffer in the markets to going deep enough that those extreme situations don't arise to.

[00:54:59]

Is the power right? The power of the farmer is much lower than the private usually. And in that case, even if you're saying, OK, you can go to a contract with anyone. How how are you going to do a good contract if you are the powerless in the equation? So I think the farmers are going to have to make collectives. The farmers will have to make those steps need to happen that this do this. Benchellali adopted that already.

[00:55:21]

They should be separate legislation or separate schemes where you can do this by seeing, you know, a big company like a Brittania or a Pepsi will deal with the farmer who has a five acre farm. I mean, it's going and then let's have a contract. And then in the end of the year, you better pay me. Then the whole thing would start all over again. Right, to maybe the 18 percent interest on what gesticulated.

[00:55:48]

Got credit cards just like that. Yeah.

[00:55:51]

So those kind of things, you know. So how do you make sure that doesn't happen? It doesn't mean that we shouldn't do this because we do need to provide because this is like then it's like saying no, the farmers in crutches that will be on crutches forever.

[00:56:03]

Yeah, but but the whole thing is but the whole thing is that when you have a government that has got such a broad majority and because in it worked, they think they can bulldoze, they can really dig in will their way into things working. It doesn't work like that.

[00:56:18]

And the final thing is the conflict of interest. The one thing is nobody's talking about right now. If this does look, if this does work, it means things get expensive. Indian agriculture really gets expensive by definition. If the farmer is getting double the price in international markets or outside markets, it means people living in that regard don't have to pay more for their vegetables because it's going abroad otherwise. Right. And that is of middle class losses from a conflict that will happen if this works and that nobody talking about.

[00:56:50]

So I don't know how the mood is going to stick in such a big risk because they just don't want to participate in this. This can be a huge political hot potato that is expecting too much talk this through.

[00:57:00]

I mean, demises is a great example of nothing is thought through. So I think that is.

[00:57:05]

No, no, I agree. And I think that's because the power is so concentrated and the yes men are all over and mind blowing idea must be built like mine. Like mine. I think I have a feeling that every government official thing comes. And if they sense that the high command likes it, then they just said my things and they just don't go to the for this something like this, you could have built a lot of consensus. You need consensus, at least the optics of it.

[00:57:33]

Yeah, we have a committee. We have these 50 top farmers up in the area. These companies are trashing it. It's taking us three months. It's not working.

[00:57:40]

Yeah, they haven't completed the optics, but Noncombustible Tarlac comes this ordinance.

[00:57:46]

And then the ordinance is not I think they just want on some level grounds. So these are all massive kind of things. But and then there are these ads in the papers in retrospect. But I don't know how it's going to go because there are definitely issues. But I don't want to. But unlike the NRC, which I clearly didn't see the value at all, this one, I do feel we need to liberalize the country more on the GDP.

[00:58:10]

But I mean, there is no reason why India can't make jeans for the world. There's no reason why we can't give our tomatoes instead of tomatoes coming from, I don't know, Thailand or Philippines or somewhere else. So I think there is something to be done here for Indian farmers to reach abroad.

[00:58:27]

Agriculture sector has lots that to be sorted out and organized.

[00:58:31]

But you don't just if you could come in of how it's taken there because he had only images of farmers.

[00:58:36]

You see up men in turbans, which are from Samar's all you see the Jautz Haryana in Punjab or being a starving farmer of Maharastra or up Bihar.

[00:58:46]

So it's as if Karnataka dominated Kerala, Telangana and all you guys just Albon holding iPods and coding.

[00:58:55]

So but if you drive through these states like I have the fucking acres and acres of green that you see over there, you don't see in Punjab, and Harian is likely to have more big farmers than annuitants.

[00:59:07]

I have not. I mean, maybe that's the guys who are protesting are actually farmers with big landholdings, not the small farmers.

[00:59:13]

No, no, no, no, no. You're wrong. It is six percent of the land holders, 86 percent of the land is small in 2011. They own one to two acres. It is to.

[00:59:24]

But that comes as a small smoulder. That is what so small farmers are going to get more affected.

[00:59:30]

But some of the other one is all over, all over.

[00:59:36]

Many of the poor families. Everyone. Twenty fifth is that it's politically.

[00:59:44]

But you just tell us about what if you called us you recording and translating and teaching or any of your farming.

[00:59:51]

Also, how do I know there are a lot of them like farmers? I mean and I think one of the most enduring national images of Tamilnadu farmers. Is when they were protesting in Delhi. I think about four years ago, they were eating that they took to show how much poverty they were going through. It was quite horrifying. They protested there for about 40 days. So the thing is with the farm bill and I think farm markets work a little differently because they're mostly unregulated here.

[01:00:17]

And the minute had passed a law that prohibits commission agents. They have a unified license for trading. And Mundy's also play a slightly more limited role. So there is a big protest that's been planned by the opposition on the twenty eight. But I think people are of figuring out exactly what this bill will mean for farmers and. All right. I mean, in my opinion, I think that, yeah, the system needs to be overhauled, the agricultural system anyway.

[01:00:44]

But the government sort of default idea of being corporates may not necessarily help farmers at all. So, romancer, you have a view on this?

[01:00:51]

By all means. You bring in the reforms. In fact, this reform was pending since 1991 when India was open to, you know, market economy. So now this government has brought this in. But they you need to know certain things. I mean, we these people are you know, the farmers have been selling their produce to the middlemen called Artigas artists. So these artists, they have already sold off their crops for the next two years because these farmers do not have money now.

[01:01:27]

Now the artists are going to be replaced by the corporates. OK, so now they are going to so there is no there is no security for the farmers in this particular system can either be bought.

[01:01:42]

And I can give you a contract if you have a contract with someone is a market economy. If you have a contract for two years that we are going to buy your produce, say one, they could produce for eight thousand rupees, but if the market fluctuates, it will come down to three thousand five hundred. So they are not. There is no safety net for the farmers here. So that is my problem.

[01:02:06]

And you have a view on the bill?

[01:02:08]

Yes, the state I come from, it had done away with the PMC in 2006. And Prime Minister Modi, in his address to the chief ministers about the bitter logic behind that. We had had done that very early and we are just following it. So BMC, which is the centrepiece of both the bills to Bihar, did away with in 2006. And the response of the people has been mixed. But more on the side of the positive because of some practical reasons and not very see what policy wonks this just lie with some grand ideological regions, because the first is that selling to a party that is mandated by the House to meet these, you cannot if you were a small and marginal farmers earlier, the people who could not to sell day to day produce because it is affordable and transportation costs and they want to collect a certain quantity of greens before they go out to sell with the unregulated and a lot of private buyers there.

[01:03:27]

Now they can sell very next to their village on roadside and this and that has helped their income. This has been a positive side for them. Secondly, the liberalisation of the farm sector, I would say the basically a BMC act now in 2003, the earlier and Mr Vajpayee India government had brought out the model UPMC Act that each state was supposed to follow or come up with its version. That is closer to it now. Some states did, some didn't.

[01:04:11]

But the liberalisation of this has also meant that certain regulatory mechanisms need to be put in place. No practical concerns. I think out of all people here, I go to farmlands. I have a small farm for doing so. I will do farmland each week. And the concerns, practical concerns. First, the standardization of measurement like it. BMC had such an eastern tradition of wing would make it this much green with this now, which leads me to betray the sea inundation of a lot of players in the market.

[01:04:56]

Now that is, radiation has. To be taken care of, I think that the administrative side of the state government and district administration has to look into second is the lack of the statistics. Earlier this year, BMC, you had a rich supply of statistics that to plan policies that this is the buying and selling. Now, that would be a concern that how you gather statistics with so many buyers. Now, on the third is the grievance attritional is dealing with who is the second most important official after the stigma street in the district has not been given a lot of powers to and and more than powers.

[01:05:38]

The burden of being the single point, a grievance educational system. Now, if you have grievances against bias, you go to school and that has not been caught in this act. But I think these are not foolproof measures. Bill cannot have all the full bookmaker's. Some of them would be an empirical picking's, which would come in the way of education and trial and error method also.

[01:06:08]

Also, the point about why the MSP thing has not been put into all the administrative reasoning for that would be that since they are variable and piece of legislation and cannot have that size, although there is a counter to it also. But the reasoning has what has been offered is that it cannot be fixed because it is something that is a dynamic market variable. So it's a dynamic market and it may vary.

[01:06:41]

So so just for our audience at PMC that another referring to is the Agricultural Produce Market Committee. That's the full form. But OK, so I mean, I guess you have everybody on the panel's views on the agricultural thing, romancer, if you want to just add anything to that.

[01:06:56]

No, basically. I mean, I wish that they would have studied, you know, the farmers properly. I mean, the kind of conditions that they live in, the number of societies which are taking place every year. A full report should have been prepared and should have prepared that.

[01:07:13]

And then how are determined mean as this is that he's thinking I must be will not go away. So he should just go to Parliament. He should just say that this is the A must be even the private place cannot go beyond this or they have another captive. Everybody is going to accept it. So nobody is saying that the reform should not happen. This should happen. But I think in trust of the farmers should be taken care of.

[01:07:41]

All of you've touched everything that you've touched on, everything that's put into the bill. But the way this was passed in parliament, irrespective of which side you're on, on the farm bill, you cannot agree with the way the government has bulldozed this bill. It was a time for the speaker to be dispassionate. It's clear from that footage that, you know, there were there wasn't a consensus on passing the bill. But just to say that he otherwise I wouldn't.

[01:08:04]

Let's LeSportsac. Big disgrace, but also the opposition, I think. I mean, yeah, I would blame the government more. But what if what did you achieve by boycotting the parliament? You boycotted it. They passed more bills. You created that.

[01:08:16]

So, I mean, it's sort of just to give everybody because I've quoted this in HOTAS down the years back when I was more activist and less intrapreneur during UPA years on the twenty third of December 2008, 17 bills are passed in the Parliament in twelve minutes.

[01:08:38]

I will repeat that for those of you can't believe it. On the twenty third of December 2008.

[01:08:43]

Seventeen bills are passed in twelve minutes by six six you know, I don't know of sixty six holds on them, but I remember a bill that had devastating impact on many people to see that act was passed in one of the most shocking ways.

[01:08:59]

It was basically a land grab for money and all those Chidambaram and Monteux and Manmohan Singh who was saying that this is going to do this and that.

[01:09:08]

I would really want someone to ask them what happened, what happened to the disease AIDS? It is a fucking land grab and that is all that remains.

[01:09:16]

Now, the thing was, at that time, there were many of us who not only were asking questions, were happy to get out Manmohan Singh's house because of such undemocratic behaviour. What is unfortunate today is that there are two Khatar of journalists and apologists and all sadists has given this government a free rein. And on this, I. I think irrespective of whether it is good or bad, the president, this government is setting in. Anything goes to retain power is something that I am telling you with full guarantee will come to bite them in the ass and it will come to bite the arnovitz and the sword heals Audrie's Andrology flankers and the Venetian.

[01:09:58]

In the US, just like it did the UPA, the UPA is reaping what it sold, let's be under no illusion.

[01:10:04]

Yes, as will these buffoons and if only they like onon, said Casey Gopalnath, to any story about what would they be doing on the border, that you have to read the history of Sukarno to say the only critical thinking and whatever.

[01:10:22]

But now let me just start with Jayton again, and I want to talk on the recent National Narcotics Control Bureau, Nigel, on on it because know about it because of Pablo Escobar, about I'm not so NCB, at least, you know, some of these channels are saying, of course, the usual ones.

[01:10:47]

One hundred fifty big names, republics, Hedstrom from Bolivar, drug nexus, 150 names have been summoned tomorrow.

[01:10:55]

So they because someone tomorrow, salicornia, someone, Raquel Precint is someone on a basis of a chat on WhatsApp that that is the model and I have mine.

[01:11:04]

Do you have or whatever it is.

[01:11:06]

And I think this basically is this government's way of keeping a sword over everybody's head earlier. Politicians do to each other whenever there was a vote to be able to reopen some case on Samajwadi Party or on morality, and they would vote for the nuclear deal if it was required, they would vote from all these relevant as required, depending on who had the severe.

[01:11:26]

Now, this government has said, let's do that to everybody, to media houses, to actors, to anybody with a voice.

[01:11:32]

And this being celebrated and applauded. I think it's a disgrace to anyone with a brain. And there is no subtle way of putting this. I mean, I have former friends of mine, you know, who I have worked in the news industry for a long time, said, why are seeing Bollywood should be left out just because they are Bollywood advice? I was like, dude, are you serious?

[01:11:53]

Like, you fucking smoked pot in front of me or cheating or talking. You know, people are fucking so full of shit. It's shocking.

[01:12:00]

But what do you think of this energy? And what I want to ask you is that combine Bollywood has such huge impact.

[01:12:06]

I mean, they are 10000 onas, you know, who set off this whole movement that this government is very oppressive, just made of these guys, just how these guys can create such a chindi that the government had to back off.

[01:12:19]

Why do you think this shit scared and there's no way to get them together? I mean, like Japan being a role model. Amitabh Bachchan, another desensitisation tweeted in support of his wife. Sorry. And then he's eating my tea.

[01:12:32]

Thirty six should be forty two or the fucking lunatic. Yeah.

[01:12:36]

Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah.

[01:12:40]

OK, firstly, I think you should give a disclaimer about your personal favorite. Oh yeah.

[01:12:47]

You should see the figure I got. I got go. Why do you think I'm feeling so passionate. But that is irrelevant to the broader discussion. But you know, you and I feel she's very talented and very amazing self-made kind of thing. Then I think, you know, there is yes, I agree with a lot of things. I think there's a culture of fear, fear. And I think this the rise of conservatism, that whole Hindutva and that rise of conservatism means sticking to certain traditional moral codes.

[01:13:21]

And anybody who expresses any kind of freedom or life which is seen as out of line with the correct way is fair game. And I think that's what's being used here, that these are debauched people. And because of this and this and that and things like that, and it's working very well, actually, politically, because. Yeah, I mean, people are enjoying the show. More people like to see this. I think people the channels discuss this with real maybe that's the fall from grace story is amazing.

[01:13:52]

And they've dug deep and they found this in many parts of the world. You know, marijuana is legal medically, recreationally in India. Also, certain parts of the planet are not. It is widely consumed. And it's not even important, frankly, because even if there is something, why is it being discussed publicly? Why you can just call someone for inquiry? Why is it being discussed and dissected as a spectacle? Right. The yes. And even if there is something or they are very bad, it's very bad news.

[01:14:29]

This couple of other things, too. I mean, and then I think what I'm also discovering, I didn't know. But like a lot of these stars had these friends who weren't that talented or in any way, ways you would think while they are best friends with these people and now I can see that, you know, it's that you to get close to them, you are willing to do others than not.

[01:14:49]

So I think that is a thing, too. And that is why certain people have been supplying things and things like that. I think the stars often. Also don't have amazing judgment on how to do things and what is right and what is. No, I think that is clear across generations. I'll just tell you when all this is like people, like people you see, who was she who was murdered by that she Davenant and nephews over Bangalor, something she was a staffer got an email on.

[01:15:19]

And you remember there was a case this is I think it was one charge one year.

[01:15:24]

And I think of the broader trend of what is happening is that, again, comes back to the varying sources of entertainment available today. There was a time bomb world on Indian entertainment. Indians only based upon everything was Bollywood or derivative Bollywood like songs or that awards and everything. Now with ODP Condron Instagram content. Tick tock. Tick tock. Not that I know, but say it's due to YouTube and user generated content. You don't really need Bollywood anymore.

[01:15:54]

No, no.

[01:15:57]

I still love them. It's going on. But why Jayton? You know what I'm saying is that five of them, like the Producers Guild, at least tried to put out that statement saying that, you know, stars are being harassed by media in the name of journalism.

[01:16:13]

I, using five superstars, put out a joint statement and they give a press conference to give an exclusive interview to someone like News Laundrymen.

[01:16:20]

If you're thinking they can't say that, dude, you can't and don't like the government, the media that they can't.

[01:16:27]

You mean like me? Like, no, because I'm the. Anyway, because popularity does not mean credibility. If they all get together and say this is the best Shantal I can, they could skyrocket the share of that temple. They can skyrocket the sales of our hair oil or maybe a car even. But they have since they've never given political opinions, they've never even right and wrong. They've never counted on national issues. And the common comment, only when it's come at their doorstep, people are going to take them seriously.

[01:16:56]

And suppose that's not to sit.

[01:16:58]

Then they said then they say, because I think I'm just saying this, oh, it's going to backfire very badly. And I don't think they should. I'm kind of glad they haven't spoken because the moment they do, if it's a ridiculous story, if it's a ridiculous assertion, and if they come and say, hey, this was a ridiculous assertion, then immediately they become the headline because they are so popular that he so and so star said that this is ridiculous.

[01:17:22]

Then they get attacked, then they get counterattack, then someone. So it just feeds the monster more frankly, because I don't think like I said, even if there is something, let it be quietly investigated. Then if it's not there, then. And why is it that Bollywood's media has become producers? But I'm surprised that Indians who love their stars have not stood up and said, I don't think that they do forgive me because I'm sure that I'm sure they should have done that.

[01:17:48]

I'm sorry, Jayton. But I think those people, the ones who are loudest on on on media channels and on Twitter, the ones that they want to go under, I think that of people who probably you know, I think but I just want to ask you one thing, because he's in Bombay, probably has friends in Bollywood.

[01:18:05]

What is the thinking within Bollywood like? How are people reacting to this? What do they feel? Scared.

[01:18:11]

So then when you're parting between lines of coke and you the smoking gun, I thought I'd say I said, hey, hey, everybody call Leo DiCaprio another star.

[01:18:23]

What do you guys think took out a vocabulary?

[01:18:26]

I mean, people are genuinely scared of what's happening in the media.

[01:18:29]

Do you think it's something that we never felt so ordered as I have in the last two weeks? Because I know that there's this part I don't know, the protest. I didn't know. That is something called CBD oil. But CBD oil is not for.

[01:18:43]

I mean, you're young.

[01:18:45]

Yeah, it's more young. You don't need. Yeah, no secret. I mean, in Singapore, the CBD Central Business District, I mean that's what everything's been done. I see what I mean. It's just simply oil is there and has been and then the these parties I've been mujtaba lining up very seriously. I mean I am very relieved that I'm not in Dagworth sub-group Mulwala, but I don't know what is.

[01:19:13]

But you know, it's not as common as people think. It's not as common as what it is.

[01:19:18]

Exactly. Look, the monarchy up but the middle of our Lord, right? Oh yeah.

[01:19:23]

Looks like that's how I don't know the joints. OK, I don't know about joints, but if you're talking of chemicals, drugs, things that are really bad and stuff, I think that happens very like. That's not done openly because they know they are famous. Right. And I'm sure they get into deep shit. Yeah. So it just practically speaking, I'm not judging. I personally am dead against drugs for me. I write from my head and whatever it is, it's working, whatever.

[01:19:51]

I write books and it's given me a career. So I wouldn't never mess with these things because tomorrow I find bright and. All that I get very scared of these things, but I feel like these stars fame is not easy. And again, you know, people don't and they don't want to think of these people that how can they ever be victims? But fame is not easy to handle and it is very up and down. And when you are literally you get ostracized.

[01:20:16]

If you have a plot and you get so much love, if you have a hit, it's like it's like imagine coming to office and people didn't read your story enough. You didn't come and nobody talked to you the next day and you don't get the next story. I mean, that mess you up. And I think in that moment, if someone says obligated, you'll be be oil.

[01:20:33]

So I know you see on a huge rally do sound like a I don't know. How do you know?

[01:20:43]

Like, basically we'll get to know you.

[01:20:47]

I bet you do. And you do it. Maybe maybe I'm the last person I talked to just about whatever sprayed with Oscar.

[01:20:55]

They asked me this and you win and then we don't know anything about ourselves, but this anxiety controls everything.

[01:21:06]

How you get really well drops me into it.

[01:21:12]

I'm going to stop making drops. You take a throw drop.

[01:21:15]

So I think Shaddock, for example, is being called in the bottom. What's up, Chad? Where she's like CBD oil has arrived. And she replied saying thank you. So they're like, oh, my God.

[01:21:24]

Like she's drops in your eye and your you drink. It does something. I'm not sure what it's like for pain medication. Like, I know a lot of cancer patients like abroad. We use a sustained anxiety issues if you have. Yeah. So it's you don't really think about it.

[01:21:39]

Hi guys. If you go to Amazon.com right now, so it was with the oil, it comes up and you can buy it. And I'm really confused.

[01:21:49]

Something believe that there is one bottle which is very big. Looks like you drink it. It is crazy and I don't know man. It was like, yeah.

[01:22:00]

So you can hardly either let let let me say good to don't let that be settled by the most judgmental person who doesn't and these necessary congeries.

[01:22:12]

Arnon's, can you tell us how do you take CBD oil and what is your view on the fear psychosis and all these Jats and how the media is playing it up? And incidently, we are recording this broadcast on a Thursday in the afternoon at the 24th of September. Tomorrow, the 25th is when the farmers protest is. And it's also the day when one has to appear in court. I'd like to see what they got to life. But on your take on this whole thing and how the media is playing it to three things.

[01:22:45]

First, I agree with the level that spinning out of the mystical Bollywood stars, and it is because the monopoly of Bollywood put on visual entertainment has been challenged by various platforms. And that is quite obvious. And also the revisions in a report like, say, the superstar of the 50s even say it was addressed by even his contemporaries, not his same admirers. Like the lips of the same, you can not able to see Salman Khan is being called a monster or something.

[01:23:29]

Gollum by my boss and the establishment is also already here. And it was more about how these stars are not like you and me. And now it is the stars are more keen on seeing so that I am more like you.

[01:23:44]

And so in the painting out of Mystic can have various other sociological explanations. But that is a fact that Chiton has alluded to.

[01:23:55]

Second in the call about debauchery is not always about the strict more kooch. I am more concerned about the unhealthy practices and if it is a set of young people, take them as icons and the implications ripple effect. Now, these are not people to be held as role models and young, impressionable age. Some people do.

[01:24:21]

So this needs to be addressed from that point are not always from that.

[01:24:28]

They are not doing these substances publicly. They are not posting it on social media. They even if they are doing it and it's illegal to be a part, they are not endorsing it or even joining it. And think about the viewers. Anybody who's watched a pirated movie is a criminal. But those same people I know. So it's kind of like if you find this guy, I'm coming here.

[01:24:52]

I am coming to that. So now what the debate has. Or the multiplier effect of social media platforms is that the take on debauchery has gone divided into three equal channels and support groups. Now, if you have different views on whether or what is right or wrong, the morality of the question now, the institutional secular would be the laws within the laws of the country. Is it permissible or not? It would be to say the impersonal judgment on it, because moral values can be subjective, but within institutional framework, it is something is illegal.

[01:25:38]

And if given the laws, as on 24 September 2020, if something is illegal and an agency entrusted to do that, I suspect some wrongdoing and question somebody, it should just widen the net to question everybody that is guilty of wrongdoing. That is my limited point.

[01:26:03]

So I think one point, what Annan said, what he said about even I agree. I think it's diluted. The impact of the only thing I disagree on is that the while everyone has their own morality, the final arbiter of that which you didn't use the word Abbotabad, I forget the exact word used.

[01:26:20]

But what is said, the final deciding to do that will be the law. I disagree. The law will only let what's legal, what's moral like. It was perfectly legal to impose the emergency. Does that mean that whether I think it is moral or not to be determined by law, the law allowed in dragons to impose it. But that doesn't mean there's a moral thing to do. Similarly, if something is not legal, I don't think it's immoral and I think the law can be wrong.

[01:26:43]

So the law is just the law.

[01:26:46]

And as it's appeal, I don't think anything to do with with the morality at all.

[01:26:51]

It's not even in the same kind of subset. It's not in the part of the same equation.

[01:26:55]

In my view. It's a different equation altogether.

[01:26:58]

I know I see a pattern here, a very clear pattern.

[01:27:02]

They're trying to strike fear among people who are going against the government. I mean, for that matter, deeper, deeper. They pick up other we pick in.

[01:27:12]

So how can you forget the of respect?

[01:27:14]

So, I mean, if they pick up, the country needs to be questioned. So why don't they do it with criminal gang that has admitted to have taken these drugs? Are they all the people who have consumed drugs? OK, so so so I see a very clear purpose and the way they're leaking stuff out.

[01:27:33]

Why are you leaking a 2017 Chad out to times now for her to then read it out the way she has?

[01:27:40]

It's that's clearly because at the moment this news comes out, you suddenly have a burst of ideas, trolls using the bigger picture next to Ichigo's from Jane, you think they call it tells you to citruses the military. And so what follows after the leak is slander in mainstream media and slander and social media. I refuse to believe that this is just like some coincidence. And I think let's have some perspective that marijuana should not be clubbed with hard drugs like heroin, cocaine and all.

[01:28:07]

In a second, there are well-meaning people within parliament itself who wanted to declare but from, you know, harder drugs, because these aren't they don't cause the kind of damage that heroin addiction or, you know, anything else doesn't. You have had a tradition in you of people smoking up. You go to Cavalia Jatras. I mean, everyone smoking up in a gallery out there. I don't think you will put them behind bars. Everyone smoking up in Camela, people I mean, smoking up is really regularly are college kids do it.

[01:28:37]

People get weird and maybe like morally middle things. It's debauched. But I don't think someone having a joint is debauched. I don't think this is a debauched lifestyle.

[01:28:46]

But are they prattlers V? I am trying to get a story done on the Narcotics Bureau history. You know, the how many partners they have caught in the past once they got on it.

[01:28:58]

I mean, and when you look at them, drug addiction consumers in India alone is a different law for that. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Infos, you have to prove your consumption opposition.

[01:29:06]

You can't do either in this case. So why are you going after someone 2017 said Michael mean hardly something.

[01:29:13]

It was vegetable. It wasn't exactly that.

[01:29:17]

The old chap is the star anchor, you know, star panelist in Times and Republic talking about drug addiction. Look what Achilleas are accused of in Punjab. I mean, colluding with the mafia. And the problem there is not hashish or weed. It's it's hard to get mis selling over-the-counter drugs and injections.

[01:29:35]

And and there is a clinching evidence. Evidence is in, you know, in many cases where the drug was caught in Punjab, a police transport system. They run the transport.

[01:29:48]

There was, of course, that was used. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of media around it. And that was the they lost the election on that.

[01:29:54]

I think this is a lot of the. Uncles and aunts, uncles and aunts is taking over public. No, I've just said it is it is basically people who are angry and miserable want the fucking world to be angry and miserable. It's that simple because why should I be the only one who's festering in my shit? I want everybody to feel like shit. And that's what it is, I think.

[01:30:13]

Yeah. Sorry, someone was saying something before I wind up. So whatever the point meant and that is what I said, that you need to widen if it is illegal for someone to three people need to widen the net to catch gold from Canada and all other people if it is on on a particular day, if it is illegal in the country. Also, the widening widening of net of the investigation is the correct thing to do. I think that's sort of ascribing the inaudible motives to the narcotics bureau that are doing this in the process of cracking this insane sort of cartel, because so far they have a couple of really low level dealers.

[01:30:54]

They've pulled up after the officers whom he's looking out against the government or whatever. So and it's on the basis of charts that say nothing except that, like I said, in 2017, she want Ellspermann, which is nothing. So I think this process I mean, the idea that this is some sort of quest for justice doesn't really add up at all.

[01:31:11]

And it's a very unique kind of investigation.

[01:31:15]

Normally when you're doing investigation, you do it very carefully, secretly, but here you first leak it out to the cops and you do someone.

[01:31:25]

And even if you want to catch a drug cartel member, they're all in high alert. Now, you can't do any seizures even if you wanted to go off because you know, so object.

[01:31:36]

And if you could just stay for another seven, eight minutes, I'm going to read out a few e-mails and then you can just respond to those and then we can wind up OK.

[01:31:43]

Is that OK? So this email is from Haresh near.

[01:31:48]

Harris says, I found your website recently and loved your podcast. I subscribe quickly so that I can access all the videos. I've been going through them as quickly as possible. And I have a couple of observations regarding the often discussion topics of press partisanship. It is hard to stomach the gun from your guests working for publications such as The Wide and Caravan really think they are unbiased and not partisan. It's laughable to hear them critique times on the Republic. While the bias of the public is blatant and out in the open, the partisanship of wire is subtle and more dangerous.

[01:32:16]

For instance, there was an article recently on Wired about how artists run schools are teaching tribals to look down on their native religion and culture. Yeah, that may be true, but what about the Christian missionaries who have done the very same thing for centuries? The article had one throwaway line about that while the author went hammer and tongs on, as in Hinduism. I mean, seriously, this is the type of selective liberalism that so-called liberals practice, and that's why they're in the state they're in right now.

[01:32:40]

Anyway, I love your work. Thanks, Haresh. So, Haddish, on your mail, I will say one thing. While I agree, I don't know if they've claimed to be objective.

[01:32:48]

I have very clear views on objectivity. And anyone who claims to be objective doesn't understand the meaning of the word. And one of my co panelists used to use that word so often sitting here who clearly has demonstrated his objectivity since. So I completely agree. I think why it is an extremely partisan website and but my criticism, at least mine is not that partisanship. And I think everybody, you know, can be all partisan. They want a minus about sticking to facts.

[01:33:14]

So, yeah, what about three. Doesn't quite work for me. Are not. But times are welcome to go at any they want with the evidence that they want. But it has to be fact based in the case of the Republic on the challenge you mentioned, it is not fact based and fake news is not journalism. And calling people names is not journalism and saying you Hockaday call matter, but otherwise not journalism. And how that the journalists behave I know is not journalism.

[01:33:39]

So my problem with them is not partisanship and I must make that very clear. My problem with them is that completely disregard for any journalistic filters, journalistic behavior or journalistic motives. That is all. Jayton, you had something to say on Jesse Maneesha. Anyone has any news on that? No, I completely agree with you.

[01:33:58]

And I think this is maybe a problem of media literacy and maybe news only should work. Look at that. There is a difference between partisanship, bias, hyper partisanship, and all of us have come to accept the television media will be hyper partisan. But being hyper partisan, you still have to follow certain journalistic rules with Republic doesn't. And we've talked at length. So the equivalence between Wyatt and Republic I don't think stands. I mean, you can say you can say by a very selective or that it's chosen to show something or that it has you know, you could point at an article and feel that that's propaganda and present views for that, but it is still not made up.

[01:34:35]

I would even compare an organizer with The View because organizing every thought I says mouthpiece, but it does not indulge in the kind of stuff that Republicans, at least their reports are. They have some academic heft. They have some the writers are. They are Hueytown. Yeah, they arguido.

[01:34:50]

So that that but I don't Aplysia if he says something like, you know, the Papale, Sonia Gandhi. Congratulated her on the murder of two sadhus, and he said that now that's just that's having seen that Onvia or haven't you seen that on anywhere in Right-Wing Media? So it's not even about being right. Even organized, right? Yeah.

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Yeah, it's not OK. This is by this subscriber wants to remain anonymous. He works at the PSC also. He's not allowed to articulate his views.

[01:35:18]

He says I'll call him in and says I was going to write 400 words on our London take on debauchery and his false equivalence of legal action on Rianne Kangana.

[01:35:27]

However, thanks to those succinctly put letters on the stop are going to have that 294. I can write about other things and I presume instant rebuttal and 293 notwithstanding the fact that various countries have started legalizing simple fact that in one case a state is meddling in someone's personal affairs and the other a defendant encroach on public property, shouldn't have been lost on someone with as much encyclopedic knowledge as on. And so that's on TV Kapellmeister and hate speech. I think these preemptive staes and media attention only enable them to glorify their victimhood rather than any intelligent administered administrator or court would knowingly allow him to commit these infractions and swiftly make an attempt example, sorry, and quickly make an example out of him post facto so that both evidence and exemplary punishment are out there for everyone to see.

[01:36:16]

However, in the face of a religiously motivated government, I don't see any quick solutions to the problem of majoritarian hate speech. My only hope is that the high courts will do what they can. It's like instead of taking down Confederate statues, people and authorities should put up a new plaque saying what a terrible person this guy was and which government put the statue up to appease whom. And regarding the the word limit, given the fact that you have such erudite and eloquent subscribers who write such wonderful and nuanced letters to you, it is unfortunate you have prescribed the word limit.

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No one is stopping you from paraphrasing. As long as you get the crux of the matter. Maybe you could explore a different show with half the panel just to discuss letters.

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That brings you to the fact that subscriber based model invariably attracts intellectuals, economic privilege or politically motivated subscribers. Word limit might discourage people from writing it altogether. And that, I feel, would be a huge loss to the open discourse at news laundry. Maybe you could only name and thank the people sending letters of encouragement, supplementing the revenues from small advertisements individually, financially cap to the amount of an individual subscriber base might be an idea you could juggle to prevent left of center people setting the agenda so well regarding having a separate podcast for letters, you know, it breaks the, you know, the excitement of just interacting with you on the regular Hafter and on your other this thing.

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I think just taking ads completely destroys the optics and the brand positioning. So I wouldn't do that.

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Anyone else has anything to say? Demanding subscribers? Oh, man, you better. You should have seen the the to make the letter too long.

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Then someone says, why meetings? As long as if it was an important word limit. How can impose a word limit.

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But that is a beauty subgenus. Of course I like it a lot. I lost.

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This subscriber also wants to be kept anonymous. A new subscriber I have been following. I work for more than a couple of years, but as a move at court heard the last half, they enjoyed it. One point I think the analysis you did with the with the law on how upper class and the educated class have this much hatred was possible. The hatred the upper class has for the lower class and lower cost has been there for decades and it continues to rage in many houses.

[01:38:30]

We still have separated. And so so people who take out the garbage and therefore are of a different class look at the killing of endocast couples. Just that now religion part has been added. So it has become very open. The hatred is openly supported by people in power. So it is being displayed as well. Isn't this hatred an extension of how the hatred at the level of cost was and still is openly displayed in many places? I remember in one organization on lynchings, my friend said that the level of cost, the lynchings happening was there earlier also.

[01:39:00]

Then why is there so much hullabaloo over religious based lynchings to which I kept saying it's good that this much is happening, now is the time to take action against all kinds of lynching. But this point to my friend made it clear to me that the hatred at the level of cost has been there for a long time. To me, the hatred becomes much more of a structural phenomena which has existed in Indian society for long, just that now it has been given a direction and a dangerous one in an organized manner.

[01:39:25]

All right. I guess this person also doesn't want to be named. This a very interesting male on Get, who is a lecturer at the University of Adelaide. I've been listening to the after four years, a year before I subscribed. I should have done this earlier, but I'm happy I'm not a move at code anymore. And the recent school board video I've been asked which news sources he trusts and reach for his own consumption. He said he follows certain journalists whose credibility he trusts.

[01:39:49]

This made me curious to know who they are. I would love it if in the next episode of Until After the panel does a round of what their own sources of news are.

[01:39:57]

The quality of news on resubscribe emails are so good that I wondered if they are, in fact written by subscribers, this mail is also a way for me to check subscriber e-mails actually read and responded to writing them myself on guitar.

[01:40:09]

I hope now you are you are satisfied that I'm actually reading subscribers like of radios and I'm not just making it up. So let me start with that is the panel I on on policy issues. I don't always agree with him, but I think that in spite of Taxila Institute has a good take. I also read about Numata, although I understand his biases, I irritating, although he claims that I haven't noticed him a few times on policy prescriptions. I may not agree with them, but I think often they come from a place of some sort of, you know, seeing all sides on issues of defense.

[01:40:43]

I trust I believe he does not let his politics overtake his view on defense reporting. Also, Cycad data is someone who I believe on defense, on economic matters. I trust Wacol. I mean, I could go on and on, but it's hard. But they are different people. Like, I would not look at Saikat to tell me about, you know, some crime that happened in my Russia. I'll maybe look at Milind Conduct Street for that or who what he what his team has said.

[01:41:13]

So I understand that if you're not part of the news media, you wouldn't know who's good at what. But that's actually how I do it. Then how do you consume your media?

[01:41:21]

Yeah, I think I, I firstly, I think, you know, look at the most extreme things, so I look at why I don't open. OK, that kind of tells me what is probably not correct in either case. So that is the extremely sort of provocative.

[01:41:39]

But I'm letting you know how they doing gymnastics. They're like the five judges and then the last and the best and the most calls are rejected and the averages is taken. I'm not saying what is wrong or openly is wrong. I think they are doing what they are intending. They have been very clear about what their intentions are. So I, I respect them for that. They've never really claimed to be innocent of their claim to very much have a position and they go on from there.

[01:42:06]

But I think for me, looking at things objectively is what is fun. I think there's always more sides to a story and it's never as simple as, oh, well, there is one bad man, after all, and he's a dangerous sport. And I think as a storyteller, as a writer, I see human beings love narratives where it's like good guys, paradise, good guys who work are bad guys. What evil, debauched, greedy, like all the bad human qualities in one villain and then hero.

[01:42:37]

But actually both feel good and exist within us. So, you know, that's I think that's an easier story for people to ask about.

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The Straits Times of the Parthenon you'll get because I read the Straits Times. The biggest headline there is that someone's pocket got picked up, really, you know, but Bogey, in fact, did a Singapore college.

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And later, you know, in the evening, sometimes I watch it there. Parliamentarian's debate, like, you know, school workers say, sorry, I'm on trouble. It is a pleasure for me today to say that what a wonderful I was like, bloody hell, this is the parliament voted. But let me say a total hammoudi about.

[01:43:12]

But but how do you get to I mean, I think it's mainly online. Like, I like the print the law. I think some of the work they're doing is very good. I believe meals on meat. I, I think scroller sometimes does very good work. But The Times of India and India today, dot com, some ndtv I mean you have to read these, you are not paying this. And I think sometimes I was scared because I have a column there and so I look at that.

[01:43:39]

But yeah, these are not sorry, not very subtle but I'm very mainstream so I try to, but I do look at why I don't know, India's take on some big things. So I try to understand what is the most extreme position one can take office. But what do you mean who do you agree to opinion?

[01:43:55]

Vieaux in terms of quality? Do you really think like a sort of English? No, not English. Quality of thought.

[01:44:02]

So quite critical. Farmable. Well, this is an up in the appraisal farm bill.

[01:44:06]

Would you would you agree that there is there are two ways to look at things. One, it is part and parcel of any reason at all. It is, yeah. I'm documentaries and the other is what is looking and what when something is clicking and then something is resonating with the large number of people, it automatically gains merit. We cannot ignore it. So, I mean, that's I think that's the issue where English isn't. You guys are your only language then maybe I was talking about heart like post-process.

[01:44:37]

Jesse, where do you how how do you consume your news to make sure that you are not to be influenced by biases?

[01:44:43]

I mean, I'm sure I have my own biases to reassure you for me anyway. But yeah. I mean, so for me, important stuff to read up on is Chennai City News, which threaten the Times of India, has an excellent city section for Chennai. So does the new India next. For South India News, I think the News Minute Daily News, that all is excellent, it sort of summarizes everything that's happened across the five states. The federal is also very good.

[01:45:07]

It's a website based in Jenin. And for matters of cost and opinion pieces, I love Roundtable India, which I think should be required reading for a lot of people. So you're right.

[01:45:18]

And you have any recommendations for our wonderful professor from the EU? Yes, newspapers I read regularly The Hindu in Times of India for different reasons. Biases I can filter, but for information and news, Times of India is for giving a sense of India a bird's eye view of India in 20 25 minutes, and the Hindu for its formal approach to news gathering. Very formal. And it seems that they have it's a kind of newspaper as the cliche to study, not to just flip.

[01:46:02]

It has its biases.

[01:46:03]

I have written about it, but formalistic way of putting things also adds to credibility. I think a former foreign secretaries to some components here that bankers and diplomats wear suits because they deal with very delicate things and and the formal sartorial appearance gives a kind of credibility of seriousness. So that is also a thing of how you put up things and that makes things easy for her.

[01:46:39]

Since my reading is also from a student's point of view, also in electronic media to all India radio also because in 15 minutes, a bulletin, the things that we talk about, the news media ignored or some flowers, we had floods, but in order in the region, it would not be ignored. It's a public broadcaster, but the government side of things.

[01:47:06]

But I didn't give you the information, if you want, in 15 minutes, the important developments of the day, it will give you and there you will don't have the issues of normal complaints with mainstream media that this was not covered and that would not come as a news person.

[01:47:25]

I try to read as much as I can, but I think for the credible news, for the single most important source, I think Indian Express is far, far better than any other newspaper.

[01:47:38]

Maneesha, so far reporting I would go to Indian Express and Express. Front page is a must for me every day and also the city coverage.

[01:47:45]

I think that they are probably the most credible in Delhi that you can get along with that times of India city beaches are also good for BJP related news.

[01:47:54]

Like if you want to know what's happening in the Partito bylines, I watch out for our lives. Matu she works for the Express. I like to read Mr La and Maria Shakirullah sometimes on the stuff, the detail about what's happening in the BJP or thinking in the BJP.

[01:48:07]

I like Osemele, who is a columnist with the print and he also writes for New York Times and he's written for us also. I think he's a nice, refreshing new columnists and he's not you can't really in his part down to an ideology. And I like that about him for opposition bashing. I like reading Shivam, which like I like reading how he will now go after communists. In what new way, what new thing really come up with. And there was one more that I wanted.

[01:48:35]

Yeah, of course. Economy I think we call it a trusted voice.

[01:48:39]

You know, even in this farm bill, if you want to know, you know, somebody, if you just want to know facts and balance in a balanced way without it being demonized or eulogised, because I did a great job of it.

[01:48:49]

And I like building managers. Well, sometimes they don't. I know I won't agree with them, but I just like to read what you know, what I think, man, what he has to say become what Mahesh Sharma had become about ten, seven, eight years ago. He used to always take a contrarian view, but then he started taking the contrarian view because he knew people expect to take a contrarian view. And it became so convoluted that in the attempt of trying to sound brilliant, you end up sounding quite silly.

[01:49:14]

And I think Manu like I didn't like his latest one. I don't agree with a lot of what he writes, but I still like to read it. I agree. I think he was to be phenomenal, but I think that is what happens. We all fall into a trap of our own kind of got to get to the limit.

[01:49:27]

This Maelstrom Keates, the Rebelo. I'm writing from Houston, Texas, a day after RBD death do amazing things. I discovered this year on news, laundry and the Tom Temptation bundling temptation, but is a clever method of using rewards, all the things that you enjoy doing, those guilty pleasures which often which offer instant gratification like and love to to invoke the willpower to also get all things you don't want to do, like doing the dishes out of the way, things that often come with long term benefits, domestic bliss.

[01:49:54]

I also cook and clean some. Not your typical D.C. man, only doing pandemic induced chores, I absolutely love all newsworthy content. While I haven't watched the media ramble yet and therefore don't know the business model strategies that work, I do as a stereotype I.T. engineer, marketing MBA grad, an aspirant to the Philip Cotlar Award, which really the one think nuisance is the hook to draw future subscribers.

[01:50:17]

I do that with friends who are not big readers and it works up on that as a man after my own heart and I can see myself becoming the ranty uncle that he says he is. I suppose I'm halfway there already loved all the interviews, especially the one the general manager like Modig seems to be the most popular of the team. And I like most follows an equally enchanted by screen presence, knowledge and resilience. Smart, smart, smart subscriber.

[01:50:40]

My sister works with the fact checking agency and I know what a terrible toll it takes on one's mental health to consume this level of hatred day in and day out.

[01:50:47]

But then this is giving me like a four day state and then by the end of the year to make up for that.

[01:50:52]

Any dreams and don't deserve to be on. And that's fine.

[01:50:57]

So I'll arrange something happy marriage that I know someone who has a lovely hillhouse. His name is something that ah, he's an editor with this.

[01:51:08]

He the a lovely bungalow in the hills. I'll talk to I've heard you actually with all your school networking.

[01:51:14]

What is the point that you have the money.

[01:51:18]

So Meraj online that Ramanna Great Meraj brings a unique perspective which I suppose most of us in the heartland are not exposed to. Special mention of Miguna then how his and his show Constitution and Jada Bunta country with these insights and Will probably bidi with this book, uh, like I did after watching Soudas interview. There are a lot of topics on which I have views and will probably write sometime in the future. For now, this is congratulatory mail for being a beacon of light and hope.

[01:51:44]

This in Karluk. Do let me know if I can help while in Houston huge DC population Ketan or I'll actually get in touch with you.

[01:51:52]

I'm planning a bunch of things next year in the US and maybe you can help me plan the one in Texas. And finally, the last me list a mother who said I appreciate the work and is doing. I've been consuming free content for a long time and have become a subscriber now for the entire year. I'm currently working in the U.S. There have been many social challenges. I always had the hope that things would be better and the good in people would prevail.

[01:52:14]

But looking back at the past two years, I'm turning more pessimistic about this. I detest the politics that is happening. But my concern is that everyday people in our circle, neighbors, friends, colleagues who become more hateful, I'm guessing people get the politicians, they choose our people and the politicians go the media influence, or was it always underlying hate that is now out in the open? What are the panel's thoughts on this? Since I've managed to keep your thoughts on the one 400 words I'm going to squeeze in a program such a suggestion.

[01:52:41]

How about engaging with everyday people who have not been able to see the past, see past the obvious on what the current politics of hate and media is feeding them reason with them without name calling them as secular Congresses.

[01:52:53]

This is an idea actually, you know, has been suggested in the past that maybe we'll do it once we have a little more bandwidth. But right now we are planning to get a new radio show. It might make not going. I hope I can do that soon. But if anyone has any views, any of these things, please articulate them or you can give us your suggestions and we can wind up so anyone with anything?

[01:53:10]

Not really. So let me start with our guest from Singapore, Jayton. If you could give me your closing thoughts on the recommendation that enrich the lives of our listeners and enrich.

[01:53:20]

Well, I would highly recommend watching in the news channels. Do you really know what have I been recently watching? I just saw, of course, social dilemma. I'm sure that has come up in your show any time. Yes, that was very good. I just saw this movie from the same director of Lipstick on my book. Oh, yeah.

[01:53:46]

It's about this about this story. It captures the the aspirational essence and the frustration of small town in the second grade right now. I think the first movie. Second grade. Yeah. And it literally has to look like this is the City of Dreams. I'm like, OK, so it's interesting, especially people who have a sense of that area or like that NCR people like who have lived in the interior like it. And of course she brings a lot of feminist issues and things like that into it.

[01:54:20]

And of course, what a booming economy. I see brilliant actors. Yeah. So I don't think either.

[01:54:27]

I reviewed it an awful awesome she I absolutely loved the film and you're so right about that great insight. I think it's used so well.

[01:54:33]

They know. Yeah. So I think that it's a broader political comment. Yeah. Which is in the film which is I think rather quite good. So yeah. I mean I think that's all I've been watching. Great.

[01:54:46]

Thank you so much and thanks for making the time and get me a book. Let me read it and then let's have it interview, then we'll do it.

[01:54:54]

And then just releasing the. By this so this was on Saturday night or Sunday and Monday, the book is coming to you then Charlotte Richards. Yes, we will.

[01:55:05]

I know that's the recommendation. Hello. Hello. Hello. Forget what I said. One arrangement. Read the book. I know it is not based on reason, whatever it is. I've written this book well before. It was to come out in me and because the pandemic, it got delayed. And I think it's interesting they are releasing the book in a pandemic. It's the first time I don't think that many people are releasing things now, but we are completely doing everything on itself.

[01:55:34]

Everything has been online. So, yeah, it's quite interesting. We'll discuss it and then. Yes, we shall. OK, OK. Thank you, Susan. You've written that and you want to go next.

[01:55:45]

OK, so I am recommending a book and since there has been a lot of talk about debauchery, so I am recommending something about it written by someone who has been accused of serious debauchery and that is M.J., M.J.. So I am a father. I recently finished reading his book, which came out earlier this year, Gundy's Hinduism versus János Islam and the two things I am defending it for, since it is a very written subject about events leading to partition and is still Mr.

[01:56:26]

Aquil, who manages to bring fresh research, fresh insights into that historical period. And that is to his credit. And also it reminds us of a time when we had a scholarly editors and we have very few of them. Now, I'm not talking about nostalgia earlier. Also, all of them were not of that caliber, but it's a dying breed. So in that sense, he had his place and has written some very good books about historical understanding.

[01:57:06]

Second, also, the phase in which he wrote this book guide. And the normal practice would be to write something about the crisis, mental crisis of dealing with accusations or so might be many of the accusations are right and he might be divorced, but he has not written about anything in that period. He delved into serious historical research and that, I think, is a sign of mental strength.

[01:57:38]

And also the people ask that what is the challenge for the writer and the challenge? The only challenge? We have got a writer and said it is not something grand. It is just what to write next, what to write next, because you traded life, lead the life of writing. And there is always this telling you what to write next business next week or next. And he somehow came up with that idea and delved into a historical research into this critical period in his life that I think besides his debauchery, I think that was is significant work to come out of that feature.

[01:58:22]

Right, Jesse? Yeah. So I have two recommendations, both of which are quite fun. The first is a TV show called Patriot on Amazon Prime. It's a dark comedy about an intelligence officer. But if you want the more intellectual sell, it's also about the futility of geopolitical intrigue. So it's great. My other recommendation is a piece in The New Yorker, which is titled The Hidden Costs of Streaming Music. It talks about how more and more people are streaming music nowadays.

[01:58:49]

But there are hidden things that we don't know about, like the impact on the environment, the exploitative regime of label. And it sort of describes how the process by which music reaches us is not actually equitable. So this is something I never even thought of before. So, yeah, those are my recommendations. Romancer.

[01:59:06]

Well, I live in area, so tolik or automaticity and I saw that and really loved this movie. So it's one of my recommendations. And I saw another in a show which I was talking about earlier. This is Viking. This is, you know, the era of savages. The seven seasons had come. I think it was one of the most popular show in UK. So I thought so I watched that and I liked it in a way, and I'm reading them on the book that she wrote about it.

[01:59:44]

So it's an autobiography. So I just wanted to pick some threads on Imran Khan, her last husband. So that is why I'm reading it right.

[01:59:56]

So we call Speace on the farm bill, white farmers are protesting against laws which will supposedly had them, you can read it, it's a three thousand five hundred would be. If you don't want to read stuff, then of course, there's mignons explaining that you can watch.

[02:00:09]

There was a piece in the window over the weekend by banjo player, was a friend of Walmart. College isn't really a heartfelt piece on what it's been like living with them and living through his many run ins with the law I had. I think it's really worth read and a piece in the news minute, actually, because we've talked so much about Dibakar and all that.

[02:00:29]

What action can Dibakar Patagonia face in the case? A lawyer explains just if you guys Akino knowing the basics of what's happening here.

[02:00:37]

I have two recommendations. One is a newsletter recommendation, which I'm very envious of. ATOL has done this interview with Unver Maqsood, who's a satirist from Pakistan, and I have recommended loose talk, very often unspoken reference it in many of the podcasts. It's a really, really funny show which he and my doctor used to do. So that interview is something I highly recommend.

[02:00:57]

He's a satirist, a writer and also the father of Bilal Maqsood from the group Strings.

[02:01:03]

And the second thing is Planet Money. It's the podcast. They have one episode on After the Plague and it's The Black Death was one of the worst catastrophes to ever hit humanity. But it also helped upend feudal hierarchies, redistribute wealth and make daily life better for a lot of medieval Europeans. And I was just thinking that after this, how this would have changed our mindset, how they sort of changed how we take many things for granted. Will something good come after we have got over covid?

[02:01:33]

And I could think of a lot of things that could actually become better. But I would like to know what you think of Dave. Listen to that. On that note, I would thank all of you who have subscribed. Thank you for supporting news laundry. Thank you for keeping us going for so long. Like I said, we have an hour, two or three weeks when this is going to be free and it's on YouTube after that, on your website, once it's tested and done and about, I think one hundred of you are testing the website right now.

[02:01:59]

We've given it out to our subscribers, access to it to give us recommendations and make it better. This podcast will be behind the paywall and I do hope you will pay for it.

[02:02:08]

Then I'll leave you with this song, which tells you the story of a news media right now based on what is happening on the streets of Mumbai until next week. Have fun. You can now control. All the news laundry podcasts are available on Stitcher, iTunes and any other podcast platforms, please subscribe to News Laundry.

[02:03:09]

Help us keep news independence.

[02:03:12]

You got all our podcast on news, pop culture, current affairs and sport. Visit news on the dot com. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and subscribe to our YouTube channel.