Happy Scribe
[00:00:01]

This is a news laundry podcast and you're listening to and I'll have the ungrazed up the Lagon or News laundry up in the Cabinet Shorthair. Welcome to another episode of Haftarah recording on the 1st of October at ten thirty in the morning. It is a Thursday and it has been a rather tragic and chaotic and disturbing news week. We shall get you the headlines in a bit. But first, I would like to tell all our listeners that this is, I think, going to be our second last free hafter on YouTube and other platforms or maybe in another two weeks are going to put everything behind the paywall.

[00:00:37]

So do subscribe and pay to keep ministry because like, you know, we don't take ads. We are an ad free platform and we are sustained only by many of you subscribers. Thousands of you have subscribed the last three weeks. I must say many of you have decided that unless you step up, you will die. So I thank you for that.

[00:00:56]

Those of you still wondering why news is so shit, I hope you're watching the shit show that are now at times I'll get you. But those of you want to do something about it, go to news on dot com, click on Subscribe and Pay to keep ministry. And you can also pitch in directly to our stories and the NLC and a project. We've had a bunch of reporters all over the country, I will tell you later in the podcast, where all they have been at first monisha with the headlines.

[00:01:19]

Vice President Venkaiah Naidu has tested positive for over 19. He's asymptomatic. India rejects China's interpretation of line of actual control.

[00:01:26]

And let Doc come in on that, that he had actually reprimanded some MP for wearing a mask and parliament and now he's not going anywhere.

[00:01:36]

China has rejected construction of Indian infrastructure in the dark and has hardened its position as the winter sets in. Babri massive demolition case verdict came out yesterday. Alcaide money and and 30 others have been acquitted. We shall discuss that in some detail.

[00:01:51]

A 20 year old woman from other British succumbed to her injuries. She was gang raped and assaulted on September 14th, and she died on September twenty ninth and the police forcefully cremated her against the wishes of her family. So we're going to discuss that in detail. After her address, there was another gruesome case that came to light from Balram with a 22 year old woman was raped and murdered. Two men identified as Shahid and Sahil have been arrested. He just data by NCLB shows that 87 rape cases are we have 87 rape cases a day in India and crimes against women is up by seven percent.

[00:02:27]

A Moodies inaugurated six megaproject, Anthrocon says all round work of government making a clean yes, certainly give that speech about now.

[00:02:34]

We will finally make clean, I think Ganga cleaning until and unless every water body, including the Ganga, is actually clean. We shouldn't believe anything any politician says by then.

[00:02:44]

Even the leak has has a lot of issues. That's precisely why serious corruption around stories that started my reporting career. I think one of the first stories I did was about the leak and how they were spending enormous amounts of money and how well they were doing that. On one hand, they were facilitating illegal constructions.

[00:03:01]

On the other hand, I is asking the government to declare a health emergency. Do you do raising covid-19 Jesus?

[00:03:07]

Yeah, it certainly spiked that after the magical handling. Why? What happened? Does anyone know? I don't know. But Pliego, because the interstate borders have been opened.

[00:03:16]

Surat Basin sponsors an ultimatum to India allows days before Bihar pols posturing posturing. NYT report showed that Trump avoided being tax for almost two decades, paying income tax to be more precise. And we'll also discuss the debate.

[00:03:31]

Well, if you have time, we can talk about the most toxic and horrible US presidential debate, I guess ever. I can. I think one can safely say that it is very entertaining.

[00:03:41]

But first, let's speak about the most horrific story that occupied much of our time in the last two days.

[00:03:49]

Let me introduce our panel to you. We have our in-house team, Rahmon Crippler managing editor, maharajahs back. He was a way to catch me. Welcome back, Meraj. Hello. Hi. Maneesha Bondy, who just the headlines. And joining us on the phone from Bangalore is Nisha Susan. Hi, Nisha.

[00:04:05]

Hi. Thank you for having me on. Thank you so much for making the time.

[00:04:09]

You are a journalist and the founder of The Lady's Finger. I hope you guys know of the latest finger. If you don't do, check it out. And she is the co-ordinator of the Pink Charity Campaign, a crowd sourced protest which male undergarments do a politician's office in 2009. Which politician was this?

[00:04:26]

Is it from Nordstrom Alderwood Alley? Oh, yes.

[00:04:29]

Are the one who has this very angry look on his face because they went and beat up women on a bike that she's also the author of The Women Who Forgot to invent Facebook and Other Stories and formerly worked with the Hilke.

[00:04:43]

So the first of all, congratulations. How do you guys think of that picture? The Campagna?

[00:04:48]

Oh, it's all a bit misty now since it was 2009, but I think it was just one of those days, you know, when you can't sleep at night and everything seems equally depressing. I mean, equally as this week and I think just a bunch of. Conversations on Facebook started it off. I see, and, well, a really good time for because when we were in college and basically a very like Futura scene when you had nothing to tell us what's happening.

[00:05:11]

I think that's our decision means on your charge, you have no money, you can't go out. So I think with Alec that we would have been the perfect what's up with Alec are Charlie Sheen.

[00:05:20]

But doing it is so.

[00:05:23]

But and what's your book about the woman who forgot to invent Facebook and other stories?

[00:05:27]

And it's a collection of short stories. It's about how technology and the Internet has changed India and relationships and intimacy and even violence and how it plays out. So each story is about the Internet in some way. It's always in 2001, the oldest story set in 2001, and the newest setting is in 2013.

[00:05:51]

I mean, I will definitely check out the book, but I thought it may have something to do with the being very few women in technology, in big tech. And one of the reasons for that was a fascinating podcast, which you should check out if you haven't already.

[00:06:05]

Have you read the report or the podcast or the podcast about that game?

[00:06:09]

In a way, you're running in this forest, Indiana Jones, like, what's it called? It's an app. What's it called?

[00:06:14]

Temple Run. Have you seen Temple? So do you know the Templeton story? No, I don't know. The story told me so. Temple Run is created by this Israeli couple.

[00:06:23]

I may get a few names or something wrong. I'm famous for that.

[00:06:27]

But basically the default setting, the character intemperance called should have forgotten his name.

[00:06:32]

Now some risk rambow or something like that is his name. So when you start playing, then the default character is male white male guy.

[00:06:40]

Dangerous, dangerous garai correct guy dangerous Google at Google so she Google and a young girl around 10 11.

[00:06:48]

And if you want to get a female character you have to pay, you know these apps, you can have enough payments all you have to get enough gold coins in order to then buy a character. And if you want to unlock a character, you either have to pay money or you have to earn enough gold coins. So this girl wrote to this couple and said that I think that's a good metaphor.

[00:07:08]

It is better to be doing accident.

[00:07:10]

And she said, I'm a girl. Why should I have to play this guy dangerous?

[00:07:15]

And then they said, you're right. And then they introduced the character, which many shall tell us. And then basically that podcast is about. So she wrote and then basically there was an entire generation grew up as men default characters in every video game that this incentivized girls from playing video games. And the video game is the entry point for young adolescents or preteens to get familiar with technology. And that is the reason there were very few women in tech.

[00:07:41]

It's a fascinating podcast.

[00:07:43]

You should check it out anyway. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:07:45]

So let's start with the biggest story that kind of I should have been the biggest all week, but it was only on the last day or two when a young girl who was raped and killed her body was cremated by the police forcibly in Uttar Pradesh, learned of a man called Yoji.

[00:08:01]

That Dannatt's who is makes me sick, actually.

[00:08:05]

And that has led to some kind of primetime outrage. And many will, you know, tell us a little bit about that, that most of your family did. The story of two questions. Do you, Nisha? One is this is a, you know, very cowbird phenomena with very alarming regularity and outrage has been in, you know, yuppy on ground.

[00:08:25]

Haven't protests met with lathi charge that stuff like this has a new resonance.

[00:08:29]

And I mean, we don't have to be Jayjay or, you know, there's no value judgment associated. But does this have a kind of new resonance in Bangalore and other parts of the South like the Jyoti Singh rape did in 2012?

[00:08:44]

Yeah, I mean, it's unfortunate, but just the scale of violence in here, I mean, against the the the victim, the family, what happened to her? And later the two weeks it took the funeral. You mean if you're half human, you would find some resonance? If you're not half human, you you know, you try to say it only happens in yuppy or it's only because of this government or it's you know, but Yogi's actually OK, all of those other things.

[00:09:16]

But yeah, for most people who opened any form of media in the last two days, it's kind of shocking piece of news. Yeah.

[00:09:25]

You want to come in on what you find most disturbing about the events and you were in touch with them. And so you can discuss it with our reporters. We had a connection with both of them on ground.

[00:09:35]

In fact, they were there all of last week, almost a year and up. They were in various parts of there being a bunch of stories. And I'd like to thank you. Subscriber's the reason that a small outfit like ours can send to reporters to spend a week there is because we depend on you and not on advertisers. So thank you for that. But you've been in touch with them. Tell of the sequence of events that really were horrific leading up to the prime time debate yesterday.

[00:10:00]

So if this crime occurred on September 14th, we we before today's first of October, so it took us almost two weeks to wake up to the crime and we woke up after she died, by which I mean most of the mainstream media started reporting on this on September twenty. If you read the story, it's it's really I mean, I've come to the funeral, but before you understand why that act by you police was specifically gruesome, you need to understand what the mother went through.

[00:10:30]

So on the morning of September 14, the mother, the brother and the girl went to the field to cut grass and the brother left in a while and the mother was hard of hearing, usually stuffs cotton balls and it was when she goes out to avoid pain. So she was cutting grass and she turned around to see that her daughter was not there. So she thought maybe she's gone back home. She went back home and on the dot. But she saw her slippers laying on the ground and she saw drag marks.

[00:10:56]

So she then followed the drag mark and found her daughter lying there, bleeding uncovered. And that's when the horror begins. They you know, they take her to the hospital where is very tough to get attention. It's difficult to get the police to attend to them because the police almost as brahmacharya. What you really do is go and finally, you know, there's some semblance of reporting on this that you get in. The Indian Express was the first to break it, I think, of what has happened.

[00:11:20]

And then, of course, she dies. And, you know, this furor and she's taken back to the village. And I imagine the mother who is, you know, just imagine someone who's she's hard of hearing what must be going through her mind. She was and she says this to our reporters, Do I wish I had I wish I had looked back sooner. These are the kind of things that she's probably going through. And then the last image that you it's flashing in your mind of your daughter again and again is of her lying, you know, completely brutalized.

[00:11:47]

You take the you know, the dead body of the girl now back home and she's bleeding. There are videos of her literally throwing herself at the ambulance that the daughter is in pleading that please let her come back home one last time. There are at her in the morning. I, for one, have never seen a cremation of the dead of night, usually always in the morning, never.

[00:12:05]

And but also imagine the plight of this mother who's there's so much going through her head, I'm sure, since the past 14 days.

[00:12:12]

And then you denied that one last speck of, you know, one last chance to grieve in peace peacefully with her, so to speak. And she's just burned, you know, the dead of night to forty five. Hats off to the network reporter tenantry, she who was there, who captured all of this in her phone.

[00:12:30]

But I'm equally surprised that the brazenness with which this actually says a lot about the media world we live in, the brazenness with which yuppy police representatives and party spokespersons of the BJP can come and say that this didn't happen. I mean, till yesterday, they were saying, no, this is not true.

[00:12:50]

And you have to see the video of the yuppy police guy where he's schooling the relatives, almost like in the Hindu retrievals, according to reports that basically Uniloc Iraqi generals. You have dared do that. What about family?

[00:13:02]

What do you do that just wasn't saying explaining to him, get in the retrievals, OK, accordingly, go out there and he tells the family he was guilty to ABS-CBN. We are basically telling them that you spoke you created a big deal about this and your actions were taken against the cops.

[00:13:19]

I have a very good friend, Fatima. Let me speak about this Retriever's. Very good friend. He's a shadow cast. His father had passed away. And then I learned that these people burned the body near the river.

[00:13:34]

So it's so if you go to I have to go to Shimshon court here in Delhi. So everybody is burning it inside the precinct. But but these people, they take the body to the river and the Banita, and it has to be it has to happen before the sunset. And that's what he told God. So that's not what I so far as the police is absolutely wrong.

[00:13:58]

And they say that came directly what we need and that will any action be taken as a corpse and what can possibly cause because it is there is no law that can force you to take a body and say we will cremated this.

[00:14:09]

I think if you want to take action against COP, either the police have to move sumo to court or the courts have to move some order. The courts do not move. So sumo to somebody has to go to the court that the body was lying in the police station for seven nobody. I mean, she was alive. Oh, really?

[00:14:26]

Oh, that's correct. I mean, the parents had to struggle every day. Even here. She didn't take her to the center to soldier. But before Meraj comes in the shop on something like this, what do you think other of course, the cost issue is a major one.

[00:14:45]

And clearly, many news professionals also don't have to cost, struggling to get it, still struggling to get it that how does it matter what caused she was.

[00:14:54]

But anyway, that's unfortunate.

[00:14:56]

But would you say the cost dynamic is major? In this part of, you know, and also the intersection, if you could speak on the intersection of gender and cost, because Tamilnadu has been the nado sorry, has been the hub of a huge movement like the Petraeus movement and Justice Party.

[00:15:14]

And we saw some of that with Myawaddy, who have been surprisingly silent at this time of where would you think the difference is in the south?

[00:15:22]

In the north, because south is considered safer, right, for women. I don't know how it is for KOSTOVA that I don't think so.

[00:15:28]

Well, I mean, I think South India has as much casteism as anywhere else in the country. I mean, the reforms that it takes is different. It might be more subtle in some cases. Tamla has plenty of caste violence, but that is also a changing climate that makes us understand that gas is a real thing, that the violence that happens is because, of course, they're not pretending that this was not, you know, tackled violence against Valmiki.

[00:15:52]

Woman There is no pretending of that sort. And it happens in Tamil Nadu, you know. So I think one can take the cue from Dalit feminists online and offline who are seeing many, many, many important things. Even one thing that I saw this morning, it stayed with me realizing what was feminist and a budget analyst and part of Dalit women fight. She said that Southerners have always been like about compensation. Right. And I've always been a bit squeamish and like the deal about compensation in cases like this and even call it extortion.

[00:16:24]

But that is a real case to be made for hefty, hefty compensation. It won five blacks and eight point two five blacks is the minimum right now under S-E prevention of atrocities that I think it should be ten times the amount. I think when we say people should be, they really should be. I think the policemen themselves should be not just the state. I think it should come out of their personal pockets. Then things might get better right away.

[00:16:51]

But that if you could come in and, you know, after that, just you could wind up telling us about how the media is reporting it, how it was reported on the cost, and secondly, the opposing of not getting the medical attention.

[00:17:06]

How come the government here is not being held accountable? I mean, how was she not allowed into aims?

[00:17:12]

And if I saw this one, I think from OP, someone outside Ms. Saying that I've just come out saying that there are some one thousand three hundred beds empty inside right now. Even as I'm saying this to camera, why couldn't it take a hill? She changed hospital, Cristie, three or four.

[00:17:30]

It's crucial time somebody who in ICU of a hospital you are shifting to another ICU, the ICU.

[00:17:38]

Obviously she is going to the time when we went a reporter spoke to the doctor. That was around two weeks after the incident. They were still not able to confirm, but they said we had sent the this to the forensic department. They'll bring back we're waiting the report. Our reporter spoke, the doctors. It's tough to accept that young and illegal also. OK, they said, we're waiting, we're waiting, we're waiting. Police also said the same thing.

[00:17:59]

They said, we're waiting. We're waiting. We we. That is the most important thing. KVI guys are going to report this case like hell for the next six, seven days, eight days, and then we will just move on. But nobody. That's what I told my reporters. Also, please, at least one para on what material evidence is that the police have collected because the case is going to be fought like are 28 years. It will go on for twenty eight.

[00:18:25]

That's water. But on the basis of evidence. And if they haven't collected any evidence of that, this case, that is it.

[00:18:30]

So that they collect the clothes of that girl, the forensic right for forensic testing.

[00:18:37]

So nothing of that sort has come out so far.

[00:18:40]

They haven't for the rest of them means nothing because what other evidence is that? You did you see the clothes, the clothes that those boys were wearing on that particular day.

[00:18:52]

So if you know what I'm saying is, if none of that has happened, then there's no what they did is they arrested some of them. Let them go. Then when the whole thing started all over again, the notice of them again. So in the meantime, if they are the accused, they are the guilty ones. I mean, they could easily go and dispose of.

[00:19:07]

They had at that time between obviously.

[00:19:10]

So that is the thing like we were talking about. They just took the body of Maneesha missing. It was a good family. They wouldn't have done that. So these are two fundamental aspects of operation. One is the lack of agency. And one, this one is impunity. Impunity is the cops, the perpetrators. And lack of urgency is this. We won't let you happen to. I'll give you an example. When I was back home in my nearest town support, there was a custodial killing, a milkman.

[00:19:33]

He was taken away by the SDF, which is the so-called counterinsurgency force. Most likely he was killed in custody. They tortured him to death, and then they took him to a place called to a small village shot into his corpse. That is what it looks like. Obviously, there won't be any inquiry into anything short into his corpse. He wasn't a militant. He wasn't accused of anything. He had no case against him. When they did that, after he was killed, everything they said, he tried to run.

[00:20:00]

The usual stuff we try to run were fired and then they did. Usually what happens is if there's a foreign earlier when there was a foreign militant something, they would take the body to this place in Guatemala City. They would bury them there. Recently, they've started doing that in SUNBERG on the way to the Amarnath yatra. This person, he had absolutely no connection to the militants, at least that anybody knows.

[00:20:22]

And there's no evidence he wasn't killed in an encounter. He was killed in custody. Most likely they didn't give his body to the family. They refused to. They took him to. So I wonder what the law on that is.

[00:20:32]

There is no law that is the thing. It's impunity. So they took him away. The family can't do anything about it around. Then I heard I was visiting relatives, so they told me one of their kids, so young, the young chap, so around each time because apparently they had nothing to do whatever. So him and his couple of friends. So they went to trial. Trial is the place to place a Buuren one who was killed in 2016.

[00:20:55]

They went to his grave and did whatever. We got it Fortia like you played the clip.

[00:21:00]

They came back on the way on the way back. They were arrested. They were put in jail for almost a month for absolutely no crime other than visiting a grave, even if it was the grave of a militant. Right. That and this. I mean, they look worlds apart, the two cases. But those things are similar because that is how oppression works in every case. And the impunity but the impunity, I think at least so far, we've got to a stage of impunity.

[00:21:24]

And this is why the media is important. It's complicit in this because the only kind of Ankush that is there is the pushback that the media can give. And the just the one thing that I find strength in is that clearly the government now is afraid because for them to do this and not allow the commission to happen or give the body back to the family, I mean, let's see, you know, Wednesday's Bhagat Singh was the most famous case then.

[00:21:46]

Of course, that's Jeggo better than there is, you know, Osama bin Laden. There is all these people who are considered terrorists or dangerous by whichever regime there was. That said, if this body makes it back to where it belongs, it could become a serious issue now. And I'm sure that was a stupid idea because that only made up their mind. But yeah, but but not to say that there's any similarity in these people other than the fact that the state of the enemy was extremely scared of them.

[00:22:14]

And for the U.S. government to go to that Clinton, this demonstrates the kind of they are scared. I mean, there is some fear of reprisal that this may lead to, which is why they haven't been allowed regular protest. You saw the largest of the protest. Right. So I think that does going to impunity that we're talking about.

[00:22:31]

But there is a societal impunity. Also, I know you had high cost associations, which is which is quite rare now. Used to be very rare in the past. But I have been seeing this in the past seven, eight years now. The high cost people, they chipped in. They they came with the representation to the police station, the murder aspy, that these three people or four people who have been arrested, they have been arrested on the wrong premises, that this is similar to the scenario.

[00:22:59]

That is actually a very important point.

[00:23:02]

But, Nisha, if you could just comment on the media angle. You know, we often hear, at least in the English media is concerned, the very best English media. It's dismal the situation and the meekness with which they kind of have completely submitted to what is required of them is the same kind of cynicism there in the language media where you are.

[00:23:25]

I think it's like a state of the nation. I mean, a sense of mission, you know, and I mean, I was listening to you say this thing about finding the body of the victim as a source of danger, like chiggers, body or things body. And that's a really interesting comparison, because I think what has happened is that middle to upper middle class people and, you know, people who are part of the media, all of us, we are naegele and much more submissive, much more mute than we used to be.

[00:23:56]

And it seems like it is like we waiting for Dalit people. They're waiting for the marginalised to lead us out of this also, you know, to take on the danger, to bear the bear the brunt of whatever the state might put on them for protesting. So, I mean, it was a very apt, I think, metaphor. Yeah, I think media everywhere and individually and as organizations, we are much more muted than we ever were coming to the media narrative.

[00:24:26]

I Manisha, you know, how did that play out?

[00:24:29]

So like I said, the incident happened on September 14. It took us a good one week to wake up. And I think Indian Express did an excellent job of giving us a basic report of it. But that also wasn't enough because finally, everyone in mainstream media probably woke up to it after she had died. And this is the conundrum. Right. And this has happened in so many stories. First, I feel outraged about why has there been no coverage?

[00:24:50]

And then the coverage begins and then I'm like, fuck, it would have been better if there'd been no coverage because and this is something that I reporters also told us from the ground that the media has made it a complete circus. Now the media has. No time to, after so much, just be by herself, she's completely being harassed by journalists who are wanting to recount the story again and again and again, you know, they've taken over the village literally.

[00:25:10]

And I think one thing really stands out in this is that young reporters have really rescued journalism once again from primetime anchors. So the reporters are, again, very young, then reporting live from times from India again. Had she not at 2:00 made those videos of what the police had done, none of us would have known and none of us would have outraged or we didn't have none of us would have had this blatant, you know, police action in our face.

[00:25:36]

So hats off to her that she was there. And again, again from print also, there was some really striking images that the photographer clicked. Of course, our reporters were also there giving us complete details. So really young people went and really stayed with the story, stayed with it's really something to chase the story till 3:00 in the morning. You know, it is good commitment. And so while I was in her studio talking about a suicide on the day she died, the same journal had a reporter, stood up till 2:00 to really document for us what went on in that village.

[00:26:05]

So hats off to them.

[00:26:06]

But as a cautionary note, I just want to add that we are so starved for good journalism that when we see a little bit of it, we tend to go overboard and become to like all of our congratulatory and smug and, you know, should be out of the show, just has to be the norm.

[00:26:20]

And please demand more out of us. Don't keep putting us on the back and saying all, you did your job. This is very basic reporting that we saw over the last few days. Let's not gloat about it and let's not congratulate each other too much.

[00:26:33]

I mean, this is and I think we also need to see that the media groups based in Lucknow, if they made this the headline story.

[00:26:42]

So we looked at the newspapers yesterday, then Green, which is the most circulated in the daily really tiny story top was probably Mazid case. We have to see today what they played up and even times of Angella did not really play it up on the day of her death. And Jinnah Sadhana Arnab politician got all of them were leading with drugs.

[00:27:04]

Just one small thing, but one observation that we also lost nuisance with did is that over the last week, 10 days, and I don't know if the two are connected or not, but, you know, we pointed out and nuisance most front page ads are not front page full page ads, mostly the only full page ads across newspapers. Yes. And I'm talking about every newspaper has been Yogya at the Tanaz ads. Yes, I can. At least for the English dailies that I read, I can say with certain confidence that the maximum revenue that these newspapers have generated in the last 10 days at least, has been from U.S. government ads because you just see the size of the U.S. government side of the frequency in the last 10 days.

[00:27:44]

And you will see why this story vanishes. And which is why I keep pretty harping on paper to keep news free, because there is a very direct connection. If you're fucking too daft to see it, then that's fucking your problem. But it is too obvious, you know, to miss.

[00:27:57]

Also, the last 15 days, we have at least noticed I mean, we say that reporters are actually reporting on another rape case. This happened while they were on the ground and we asked them to divert. But the last 15 days, you might at least 15 gang rapes or attempted rapes in YUPI alone. So journalists should also stay with this. I mean, this is way beyond one horrific event.

[00:28:19]

We really have an 11 percent of these rape cases that are let's. Yeah, of course.

[00:28:25]

But I'm just curious and rather annoyed at Myotis silence. And also, Chandrashekhar was picked up when he was accompanying the family on the highway to Atrous.

[00:28:35]

You know, Myawaddy has made itself completely irrelevant, and I truly hope she becomes completely irrelevant. You know, I have voted for it in the past. I mean, out of all the Congresses and the BJP, I thought at least she had a story because, you know, if you read her, Benjie, that book of her is, you know, I mean, Narsimha very famously said when she became chief minister that I could not believe something like this could happen.

[00:28:57]

Because if you understand your politics and you because for a Dalit, one of the vast majority of women in Yuppy to become the chief minister at that time was nothing short of a miracle. And the fact that now, you know, she is not even folding up a party and at the same time is not speaking up for the issues, that matter is deeply disturbing.

[00:29:15]

I mean, I can understand why she wouldn't me I expect very little from the politicians, whether it is Mayawati or even for that matter, to the Shakeri that I've seen is I mean, our guys our reporters are spoken to.

[00:29:28]

But the impact that, you know, we can we can write them off and we can be cynical, but there is no one or no organization or institution that can have as much of an impact as a political arena.

[00:29:38]

It is a politics that can ultimately, fundamentally change, that ties into what I was trying to say earlier. I mean, all these issues like this issue also the media will stay with it. Maybe they'll get justice if not now in a couple of years. There was another report just yesterday in Colombo, right? Yeah. Every day at least four or five Dalit women are raped in this country every single day. So this. Kind of atrocity cost, atrocity in particular, is not a law and order problem, like, say, theft is a problem.

[00:30:06]

Robbery is a problem. This is a social problem. So the solution also has to be social and social solution fundamentally is to change the cost structure, basically dismantle the cost structure. But that is not going to happen because, I mean, that is the foundation of the privilege for a lot of people in this country. Another point is, I mean, violence is a fundamental part of human nature. Since men came into this world, part of him has been violent rape.

[00:30:32]

Essentially, if you look at it, is violence as a form of violence because it's about power. So that is why it has been used in in war as a as a weapon of war, subjugation to for subjugation.

[00:30:44]

So in that sense, for people to commit rape, commit murder, it is I mean, you can't take it out of the society.

[00:30:52]

The power dynamic is an important part of the equation.

[00:30:54]

So even when it's used and used as a as a tool of war everywhere else, the thing is that in those cases, in most of the societies, even when it's used as such, there is a moral countervailing force which sees this as bad, which sees sees it as an abomination. In this particular case, in the court system, there is no that moral countervailing force that sees it as bad. In fact, sanctions it.

[00:31:21]

Sure, that is a huge problem socially and if not, sanctions at the cost.

[00:31:25]

Blindness is also what kind of provides an environment of impunity.

[00:31:31]

Yeah, I just wanted to add to your opposition point. It's true, like when the December gang rape, it happened in 2012.

[00:31:37]

It was a huge movement that, you know, sporadically came out of whatever part of it was also capitalizing on anger to go against the Congress. In this case, even if you want to think shrewd politically, where is S.P., Congress, BSB? There is anger on this. Where are they? They do even Capley.

[00:31:55]

I mean, it's like that ambition list ideals and how are not such a huge. But that is the thing about bank also. I mean they are powerful, but I can understand them keeping silent on this.

[00:32:06]

I just think it's it's a complete lack of leadership and drive. You have to have driven you. No one thinks that very big grand, you know, lofty things make political movements happen. It says one person with al-Qaeda who makes it happen. And really, that's how it is.

[00:32:21]

It's the same with police and bureaucracy. Why would they go out of their way to do something so brazen? Something that was the only moral impulse is self-preservation. Self promotion.

[00:32:33]

If all goes well, I don't wish us to go.

[00:32:36]

Just stay with us for a few minutes. I just wanted your feedback on also this week. So the final verdict came out by the special CBI court on the BARBREE demolition case. And everyone has been acquitted. It said that what happened was spontaneous.

[00:32:52]

No one was responsible, of course, that the speeches made that are considered incite incitement are not enough to take over. I mean, you know, on the upside, in that case, none of the people who have been booked in Delhi. So if this just went to the president, there is going to be challenged in the Supreme Court today. That is what I heard, is that they will challenge it in the Supreme Court. So the CBI court and Justice Lebaran, who headed the commission, apparently has also expressed surprise over this.

[00:33:17]

A lot of these people are on tape saying that we did it.

[00:33:20]

So how big an issue is because it has dominated news, news cycles and politics and not for the longest time, I mean, since I got into the profession. How important is this an issue in Karnataka, Tamil Nadu? And you know, that part of India?

[00:33:37]

Nisha, I knew I knew people some years older than me who were part of the Kashiwa. You know, I grew up and I met people who had gone as part of the garcelon. They had they had different feelings about it. And, you know, it was some sort of peripheral thing for the longest time. I think at this point, for young people particularly, it is, I think, a misti sort of topic, you know, except if Misti, it's a sort of ephemeral in its details.

[00:34:03]

But if if you are of the right, you know, like Teligent, I guess it might be a moment of triumph. Now, nevertheless, yesterday I was looking at a lot a lot of people's timelines and there was a lot of like, oh, you know, that Coombabah banal kind of means making the rounds. I guess that is a moment of triumph for some people who are deeply invested. But I don't know whether about Barbara did or will we have the same feeling for people in their 20s and 30s?

[00:34:36]

But I would have thought that in the South it would be a non-issue, at least back then. It seemed like a non-issue in the nineties. Yeah, it did.

[00:34:44]

But in the nineties, in the 90s, we had a much more heterogeneous political climate. Right? I mean, the whole movement around around the BJP and around him has been also about homogenization and trying to make everything the same. And every. A political issue that is deemed important enough to be important for us as well. But that's what I'm saying, it never was. And even now, if you were to go by the parties in power rather than Karnataka, you know, the BJP got less than 12 hundred votes in that vacant seat after she died.

[00:35:14]

So clearly, the BJP is a nonentity in many parts of the South in such an environment. I'm surprised it's an issue that at all.

[00:35:22]

Yeah, I'm not I agree with you that it isn't the same it isn't the same scale. You know, it isn't the same kind of resonance over here. But I think it feeds into a larger machinery of triumph, if that makes sense, larger machinery of who's winning and losing. And I guess it also depends on how plugged into plugged in you are into this, I guess, public relations machinery of winning.

[00:35:44]

Mm hmm. So tell me about Bangalore. You know, the whole mythology of Bangalore is this. Either it is this very beautiful, educated, retired army officers, the professors and scientists who live in Bangalore, or is this happening places where Bub's used to exist before they existed anywhere else in India? But you have they just Vesuvio as an MP, you have some of the most shocking incidents happening that even won't happen in Delhi, you know, on the streets.

[00:36:12]

What gives? Was Bangalore always like this or has it become like this? Explain to me, because you are from Bangalore, right?

[00:36:17]

I don't know. I've never had I mean, I grew up you I've never had this mythology about Bangalore being particularly different in terms of crime or gangsterism or anything of that sort. We do have multiculturalism that comes out of being a multiple language city and that does feed into some ease and some preparation for being different from each other. Like, if you don't quite understand what the other person says, you're okay with that. And that's that is actually something that feeds into the culture in majoritarian politics.

[00:36:51]

Bangalore has as much as anywhere else. Right. So which is why they just see the winds from the religious part of Bangalore. It went from the most out of. That's that's not surprising at all.

[00:37:04]

And when you say it's a multilingual I mean, what you're saying there's this Canada, there's English, there's indirect. Sorry, when you say multilingual, what what are the languages spoken in Bangalore?

[00:37:15]

Well, OK, so correct. And Telugu and Darney, which is a kind of recognisable to the people as you do, but it's done in the language and itself. And now a ton of Hindi which is spoken all over, all over Bangalore and depending on which part of the city you are and you can get away with speaking any one thing your entire life, like if you live in Kohlman learning someone who grew up and going mangler, there are many people who don't speak any and they just assume that Telugu is the language to speak.

[00:37:45]

And it's it's fine. You can get by, there's no problem. Or if you grew up in a part of Bengal that I grew up in, people will ask you, you've lived in Bangalore for so long and you don't speak. No. You know, that's that's a completely normal thing. And most people that you bump into, working class people speak five languages. And it does make for a kind of ease of attraction between people because you're participating in in the other person, knowing something and you knowing something and you're trying to meet each other halfway.

[00:38:17]

And I don't think that makes Bangalore special.

[00:38:19]

Okay, so before you go, there's this one email that I wanted your feedback on as well. And I'd like the panel's feedback. And then we can get back to discussing the CBI court's verdict. This us from Amita. And it is of almost 200 words longer than the prescribed limit. But I will read the whole thing because it's a very specific critique and criticism.

[00:38:37]

She has high. I have been a subscriber for years now. You can look it up. I stumbled upon this article and I'm honestly disappointed by the Journal's analysis of the scenario and the support for someone I have watched and admired for years for his batting skills. And then ometer has given the link to the article. Sunil Gavaskar. How the Indian media manufactured are distasteful comments.

[00:38:56]

I really do not care how the rest of the media houses cover the news and the outrage I pay to keep news free. So I found this article appalling. According to your piece, you say Mr. Gavaskar said I don't have to serve on a Shoki bowling practice given Janeva videodisc here or Satoko Jinhee Barnier, how can you not see a problem with that? The reason I have a problem with our follows what Gavaskar likely meant really. Are we taking a person's mind on what he maybe meant?

[00:39:21]

He has not commented. Is that what one is paying you for to guess what he meant? For years on end we have been hearing stuff like since his girlfriend or wife is understand the character is lucky or unlucky. What kind of practice are the cricketer who made 138 runs and 60 plus balls have Wasey practicing with someone else in these times? He has his game. He sometimes has his misses. Why is the wife involved? Talk about his game.

[00:39:44]

Tell him he needed more practice. It was a private scenario. A couple was playing together. Why would you want to make a joke about the private moment? He is a commentator, not a comedian. He should have stuck with Virat Kohli cricket on that particular day. Tongue-In-Cheek humor is extremely funny, right? You can say anything behind they. Excuse to ridicule a woman when she has nothing to do with the scenario as a person who is a former cricketer.

[00:40:04]

I'm completely appalled by the way he says in your comment, your sad comment. Do we know how well she can play cricket? Has she had a history with it? Why is she not good enough? Is he playing with someone that is not good enough because she's his wife? I'm sorry. I was disappointed with this piece as a woman, not a former cricketer and a follower of cricket.

[00:40:23]

So that's basically, you know, what you say and thank you.

[00:40:26]

If you have read this, I look forward to a response. So do you want to you know, I completely disagree with this email, OK?

[00:40:34]

And I mean, you should read news, don't read militia news reports and also read old news piece on this. It was a completely manufactured outrage. Firstly, there's no I mean, he's not blaming her. It's as simple as that. And you read the transcripts. I mean, old news actually put out the whole transcript. We didn't put the whole transcript. But to me at least, it was apparent just from that one line that he put out, he wasn't blaming her at all.

[00:40:55]

Virat Kohli was playing. The two commentators were just talking about how rasti everyone had gotten and no one was getting enough practice. And he said, yeah, there was an offhand comment because that video hadn't gone viral with Brad, you know, playing with Annushka that we saw. He only got practice. I mean, he didn't get enough practice. That's all he was saying. All you got to practice within which kind of course, that's not going to help him in IPL.

[00:41:14]

It's a really offhand comment. I think you're reading too much into it.

[00:41:18]

If you're saying is he blaming her or is he bringing his wife, that is also because a lot of media, even on Twitter, as some people are reading the sequence of events that they were told, was that he got out and then Sunil Gavaskar said this was just not the case, which we pointed out which he was playing.

[00:41:36]

So there was no failure of success at that time. There was just it was a general comment. But they shop up and, you know, also said one small thing.

[00:41:43]

We didn't read into his mind that he meant this.

[00:41:45]

If you listen to the whole thing, whole clip, he said that this is the case.

[00:41:50]

In fact, it's leading into his mind by saying he's trying to blame on this line. You'll come to that conclusion. But if you listen to the whole thing, it's pretty.

[00:41:59]

Your story was as because then how the other media read misled. Not only that they scored, they also got the chronology wrong that he got out and then he said this, which is not worth it.

[00:42:11]

At first there was outrage that because they misquoted him saying, you know, I'm going to get that killer. So everyone's like, oh, God, I don't know.

[00:42:17]

But one thing is they're going to the middle class has never made such comments in the past. So we can still. But but it can be interpreted either way. So she's right when she says it is a tongue in cheek. It could be this is you can interpret it and they show.

[00:42:33]

I would like you to weigh in on this. Did you see the comment? Have you heard the full thing? Did you see the outrage at you?

[00:42:38]

I haven't I haven't read your your article, but I did see the whole thing play out. So I'm finding it interesting because, I mean, on one hand, yes, you can see that the sequence of events was such that, you know, it's sort of blown out of proportion. He was just making a sort of offhand remark.

[00:42:54]

But I also I also see room for people to be upset by it, like not like outraged if one wants to use capital letters. But it's it's I think in the same way that one makes room to say that it was an offhand remark. It wasn't an insult. All of those things. There is room for people to say that, OK, on a scale once more in this offhand remark, you know, I mean, Uncle G remark which can fall into the mix, laugh of all, let's just ignore it.

[00:43:24]

It was not a big deal. Or we hear so many uncle remarks all day long that after a point it becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back.

[00:43:32]

But what is it about just just because an Uncle Jeremiah is what is it? Is it Mark, that is politically incorrect? That's sexist because what does it mean?

[00:43:40]

Because it is sort of like the go to go to wife joke. You know, that the stuff that makes walks and forwards is like a go to thing. It's easy. It's not actually funny. It's it's like a crutch. And, you know, it's interesting. Man said those two guys that doesn't make this kind of remarks. And I wonder whether his commentary that this has been also rasti, that he's forgotten how to make commentary during the lockdown.

[00:44:08]

I mean, you said something else. It's just a question like why why lean on this?

[00:44:13]

I mean, I have a specific answer to that, but I get what you're saying. But I think when he is going because there was a video of him playing cricket with his wife on the IS now let's see how the five year old child. I would consider the remark at par that, well, you know, nobody's played in the last two months. I would say. Well, I saw video of him playing with his child and I said, well, his child is clearly not good enough.

[00:44:34]

You know, I don't think I get that. It was humorous and it was, you know, possibly well intentioned in that context of that. We do 100 percent. But I also see that there is a larger context, the context of Annushka blaming that it's not he it's not the it's not a one off. There's been a history of Annushka blaming. So in that context, I see why people are upset. I see my Onizuka was upset and I certainly see why your leader was upset.

[00:44:58]

So this might be that. One thing that pissed her off too much, and I think it's acceptable for us to say that this is cut off, like we don't have to lean entirely on working out the details in how this comment was made. You can say that it was you know, it wasn't that important or that like that growth was just like a sort of throwaway rumor. But one can also make the same argument for why people were annoyed.

[00:45:21]

So so just so and so what was the last time she was pregnant?

[00:45:23]

I'm unfamiliar with that. What happened was I think he had had a bad innings at one of the matches and then she got trolled because she was around him. This was when they were still dating. She wasn't as she was at the.

[00:45:35]

Yeah, she was on a match.

[00:45:36]

I forget which man will bring people on the Internet.

[00:45:41]

This is not caught by commentators, but on the Internet, but not the level she's you know, and at that time, so many of us could have actually lashed out against the trolls. Think these are Rastus. You can't, like, blame her for this. He's also someone who's vociferously champion wives and girlfriends accompanying the cricketers to do that on him and saying that, you know, they can go back to home if they want to, even if they're on a tournament.

[00:46:02]

So there's that. But I just wanted to add to Nicias point like I in a lot of people actually messaged me also and say that they completely hated the piece and why bringing the wife at all. But that's not an argument anyone made in the pieces that we reported. No one said, why bring in the wife at all? I'm I don't agree with that position, but I'm still willing to engage with it. Kanishka just ban wife Menschen. Yeah, I mean, that's a little better, but then the person does it.

[00:46:28]

That's fine. Okay. But, but fine.

[00:46:29]

Because she's been told you just don't want to put a bomb of mentions. I mean I wish there was possibly ban like mentions is not it. I'm just saying it's kind of lame. I mean I'm old enough to remember the time when Monica Seles was playing and it was acceptable for a commentator to say, wow, look at her. Grunting I don't want to be the person outside her door on the day of her wedding night. I mean, that's where we're coming from.

[00:46:54]

It's OK for some surveillance and some, like, criticism. Often I'll go back to whoever else is coming. I think we can be robust enough to say it was not very funny. We can move on. Yeah, which is fine. Which is what I'm saying that that's not a criticism that anyone put forward. The criticism was he's sexist, he's a dick. He's blaming Anushka for the loss. I got him. So, you know, those two things are different.

[00:47:16]

I think you can make you can make the comment that wasn't funny and maybe. Yeah, like you said, he's gotten rusty and please find better things to say. But that's just not a criticism anyone put forward.

[00:47:27]

He was in it, if I heard it correctly, wasn't blaming her in any way. It wasn't. But the tone was such.

[00:47:33]

You can interpret this, please, if you block it out, you know.

[00:47:37]

I know.

[00:47:38]

But anyway, so I just I think this is one of those things. But anyway, thanks for the email. Thanks for sharing your views. I really appreciate your having me on.

[00:47:48]

I really enjoyed myself. But but before you go, you have to give us some recommendations.

[00:47:54]

But I just want to thank Ormet also for pointing this out better. When you say you play cricket. I'm so thrilled that you do. Yeah, because I think there should be more and more women who should take up sport seriously. And that is something that I'm trying in vain to get my knees to do. But she's I mean, she's good, but she doesn't think of it as a serious enough to pursue in a very serious way. As a career.

[00:48:18]

As a career.

[00:48:19]

Yeah. I was like, dude, if you're good enough, you should just go with sport. But anyway, but thank you for your support. Thank you for being a subscriber. And I hope other pieces that you read, you find value.

[00:48:30]

And even if this was one you didn't like.

[00:48:32]

So Nesha, before you go, can you give us a recommendation that you think will enrich the lives of our listeners?

[00:48:37]

Is it OK if I give you two? Because I've just been thinking about which ones would make a better one you can give to.

[00:48:43]

But if if one of those is not your book, then you should give three.

[00:48:46]

Oh ok. OK, so one is a novel by all means girl gypsy goddess. It is about violence in the late 60s in a small village in Tamil Nadu. It's a really fascinating novel. And for people who want to understand how caste might play out differently in different parts of the country, it's really good not to read the Gypsy Gaullists. I mean, I kind of saw me and the other recommendation, which is all around this as a side and drugs and drama is a film, a short film that you can find on YouTube.

[00:49:21]

Actually, it's a film by my friend Parmeter Water. And the film is called Morality TV and The Loving Djihad. I want to tell you exactly why it is a strong parallel of the SSR situation. I think you should go watch it on YouTube. It's thirty minutes. It's fantastic. It's it's in Meerut around Operation Majnu and I guess that's all I need to see.

[00:49:44]

Right. And your recommendation, which you are too modest to give. Let me do that for you. Is the women who forgot to invent Facebook and other stories.

[00:49:53]

Thank you. Bye Alicia. So do check that out.

[00:49:55]

Is it available on Amazon, Amazon, Flipkart most. Stores in bigger cities and towns, and in case you guys are late to the party and if you can find metallics address, it's never too late to welcome him to the scene, bro.

[00:50:11]

Thanks, Michel. Have a good day.

[00:50:14]

Have a great weekend. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. You too. Bye bye.

[00:50:18]

Okay, so back to the BARBREE verdict. Romancer, you have covered this. Yes. Were you expecting anything different? Although I've been shattered by what I see what he's saying. For those of you who didn't see said that, we're not surprised we were expecting this. I don't know whether he wants it to be read that because we knew all these people were innocent or whether he wanted to. We read that we knew that the court would not convict them.

[00:50:42]

So you never know what that means. But were you surprised? Not really.

[00:50:47]

Any case which drags for 28 years is any that. So I don't expect any justice in a case like this. This is what I can tell you. I mean, in 1992, on December 6th, I was there. I was in one of the rooftops, you know, of a building right in front of the dome. And I saw early in the morning, I think we we had gone to the roof at seven thirty in the morning and we saw some shadows coming to the to and these shadows were having marijuana, most of them.

[00:51:21]

And the children that they were because they weren't scared, they they were smoking children.

[00:51:29]

And so we were just waiting for the party to start because a day before we single the president, he had told us that this is going to be a symbolic carnival. OK, everybody reported symbolic Conceiver, even a reported symbolic. But I had a source over there. So so this fellow, he gave me the information on that, how a group of 100 and 150 people are going to enter early in the morning from through from Syria, Saudi River from that.

[00:52:03]

They are going to take this route and they have been they are going to break this structure. So he said this this has been given to the central government, also this intelligence mission.

[00:52:14]

So I was the only reporter, only reporter in your who wrote this report. In fact, I wrote it. I belong to Patriot, which was a very poor newspaper. We didn't have a facility.

[00:52:28]

So I used to like they didn't have resources for resources because they didn't have money. So I just pastor, I said I want to go. So they sent me there, but they had no I was living in a room, you know, costing 250 rupees a day. So I was away from the mainstream media. The mainstream media had the facility of fax machines. I didn't have a fax. So there used to be a machine teleprinter kind of machine in the post office.

[00:52:58]

So I need to type my story in the post office. So I was typing my story in the post office. People came, the reporters came, they looked, saw my story, and they just found. But next day, each one of them. And then the structure was brought down. They came in a queue and they can't give us we were the only one who filed their story. Now, having said that, this intelligence report do not you know, you can't hold them in the court of law.

[00:53:21]

I'm very surprised if you see the judgment. He is referring to the local intelligence reports which said there could be a Pakistani hand, but he hasn't referred to this intelligence report there.

[00:53:35]

And what I know it for a fact that intelligence reports, you know, they don't have they have just one line most secret. It is not signed by anyone. It nobody.

[00:53:45]

So so you can't ascribe to any one particular and you can't present them in the court of law.

[00:53:50]

So I was so surprised when this judge is talking about local intelligence reports and is quoting them and think they may be a Pakistani.

[00:54:00]

But let's look at this as you know, as dispassionately as possible. Much as I detest Hindutva politics and the leaders who made it possible and like I've said, no, because of Modisane Advani is an object of sympathy, because he's weak and now it's justified that he talks like that.

[00:54:22]

The fact that he even spoke like this when he was in my eyes when I did, I just knock him off just for fun. Even when you were shooting.

[00:54:31]

And if I read the script and that day, the guy who used to do that vandalizes you come so that we used to talk to each other in the studio like this a little bit.

[00:54:44]

Yeah. So I don't remember me. You've forgotten us, Deputy Prime Minister.

[00:54:49]

He was always looking like this, so. No, but the point is there was back then and I know that the new strike footage was used as evidence. Because there was evidence of someone saying, I'll be the cook out there, there were photographs of a trial run then bringing down big mounds elsewhere. So those specific people can be, you know, convicted, that it was a preplanned conspiracy to bring down this mosque. The people who were doing that whole practice sessions and there were photographs, evidence of that.

[00:55:19]

And I think that conviction should and could have happened. But I don't see how a speech of Advani, all the dog whistles that happened can be convicted in the court of law. It's like much as I detest Trump's dog whistles, he cannot be convicted for a violent outcome.

[00:55:35]

That happens because of the proud boys. I'm saying stand by.

[00:55:37]

Stand back. So legally, I'm not sure if we would want to go into that kind of precedence, I think. And the problem is that if they would have convicted those guys who were actually doing the rehearsal of how to bring this down, then they would have been a bloody help. But they look like they're going to be are you see the don't have a political liability. So that's why they couldn't even convict them. But if you were just to go by what in my view, a court should go by.

[00:56:02]

Those people should have been convicted.

[00:56:04]

A speech, the ones that I've heard, unless there's some speeches I haven't heard, advances or whatever, I don't see how that can lead to conviction, no harm.

[00:56:11]

So even at that time, I had reported that and CBA had taken my affidavit statement, which is part of this judgment. I mean, it was submitted in this court also. So I had said that at one year I could see him on the other rooftop, which was about 500, 700 meters away. And suddenly he got up.

[00:56:32]

He was asking people to come down, you know, from the mall, from the dome. So he did he wasn't telling them Keitaro to the anything, whereas we could see what levonorgestrel, mama, they were very happy. They were laughing.

[00:56:46]

And we saw the whatever the one from Hrabal, they have said that they had gone to know the other one also. So it's like saying that that was a just movement. Perrier's movement was a just movement, but even Perrier's movement led to a lot of violence against some Bremen's. Can you convict, period? I don't think that would be fair. What I'm saying is if you set a precedent like that, then everyone from Walmart downwards can it can it can get to that zone.

[00:57:14]

Much as one dislikes Advani, I don't see how one can expect a conviction or not.

[00:57:18]

I would say two things. One is disagree, Tambra. And somebody, please, we should we should play their speeches of data and we should play speeches of people who have been accused of conspiracy. And Eliraz just compare them and tell us what I think.

[00:57:41]

That's a great idea. We should just do this. What is a good discussion?

[00:57:44]

This is this is one thing I'll say. Second thing I'll say, this was the entire December 6th. It was very well planned. Like Nisha was telling it from Bangalore, people had come to. So the RSS and the BJP had planned it extremely well. And they were two black people gathered over there.

[00:58:06]

And I think people like BHP, BHB people and BJP people, they have to be responsible for this event because they they they announced that this is going to be a symbolic conceiver. And after that this happens, I think.

[00:58:22]

But I think they are. But then the price they will have to pay has to be political.

[00:58:27]

But as you know, the two things here, so, one, the part about speeches and all, they while being held accountable for that because there's a law against incitement in this country. But the other charge they're being charged they were facing was one of conspiracy that wasn't based on speeches alone, that was based on like Romancer said about the intelligence, intelligence agencies had collected nurse, rather a lot of things that they cheated me. They betrayed me. They were planning this always the then home secretary.

[00:58:56]

There was a lot of evidence that this was a conspiracy. They had sat together. They had decided this will happen.

[00:59:02]

And then on the day, in fact, what he said about Advani, that was part of the plan, that he will pretend that all this went out of hand. That wasn't the case. So that was a separate charge. So they were being taught.

[00:59:13]

But how do you prove that charge? I mean, that that was the whole point. I think it's I think it's impossible to prove that that, you know, there was a boardroom there on his iPad. I'll pretend that to stop them then you would.

[00:59:25]

I know. But that is the thing is, I don't even believe it happened like that. I mean, that's a different matter, whether it happened or not. But that was the charge. That was the thing I don't like the intelligence is the police and the central government. They had collected this evidence. And on top of that, the Libyan commission that collected this evidence saying this was this and on the basis of that, they were being prosecuted.

[00:59:48]

So that was separate from incitement, which is all different case.

[00:59:51]

All these leaders don't have to sit in a room to conspire if it doesn't.

[00:59:55]

Sorry. I'm sorry. Will unleash a political. And then. Sometimes it goes the direction you want it. Sometimes it takes you over and eventually it has taken over.

[01:00:08]

I think that with you that there's a one hour video on our website with Abdul Romancer Madu and Matangi was a reporter with the new Stracke. I think that really must watch to understand what all may have transpired in that. You do say that probably Advani didn't know what was going to happen. BHP knew and BHP like used the BGP to get to the point where they had reached. And then when the doctor fell down, he was probably unaware as what Madu I mean, that's what she said.

[01:00:33]

And that's what I don't know what you think, whether he knew already that he was part of the conspiracy. But there's another point that she mentions about the mosque having been wired, that such a big structure couldn't have come down with Sickels and ammos. Right. So somebody did wire it. And if there were explosives used, it couldn't be spontaneous explosives just lying around. Obviously, there was a conspiracy element that was part of the evidence, actually.

[01:00:56]

So the case and then people, like we have said, propaganda, Wallowa record become Dawngate ships and AMPA be back then was saying exhaustible on the only thing that nobody is admitting or guilt.

[01:01:11]

So why don't you take it off? You can I don't know if it went up to advancing the level of conspiracy, but these guys clearly knew even if it went up to the level of conspiracy, I don't think at least those of us who have been following the case for the last 20 years because it's almost exciting.

[01:01:26]

I haven't seen anything that can be NADWORNY legally, politically. I think he has to take the blame for the shit that he has. Kreig has shoved our country in and he he set up that entire superstructure for Modi to and get to take it to, you know, insane levels. But like I said, legally, there are people who can be convicted. But the moment you convict them, it'll be a Tervita today by the government.

[01:01:48]

But there has to be a collective blame.

[01:01:51]

I mean, don't forget that it's not just the mosque raid. The riots followed that the people so the blame is not just collectively falling on. It's people losing lives in schools. They are broke into riots. There were people personally speaking, it was a conspiracy.

[01:02:09]

It's very clear in the morning we saw that there were no preparations made for the ARCHEY. They had said they are going to have symbolic Kurzawa for symbolic say, well, you have to have and I eyesore this sadhus having marijuana.

[01:02:24]

They might get rid of the preparation. They kill a lot of red eyes. And they were having chillum. So I was thinking a symbolic concept.

[01:02:35]

I'm just imagining a young reporter, you 58 today.

[01:02:41]

You're thirty then. But there were no words.

[01:02:43]

Otherwise you would have said that, that you said that Amalek out and no one would have seen this Krupali Motluk Muthafucka Shannon Nicole malarky, whatever.

[01:02:57]

I mean in retrospect, if you really think about it, this was always going to happen that these people would go scot free. Because if you really look at, like the culture of unaccountability that India has created since forty seven, there's not been a culture of accountability.

[01:03:13]

And even if you really think about it, I mean, Indira Gandhi imposed emergency three years later, she was back in power and with a bigger majority and more power, see political accountability so as to obstruct the team to really ask for specifics.

[01:03:27]

But legal and, you know, judicial accountability is something that, you know, whether the Ruthanna Sultana or Sanjay Gandhi or or on these cronies, why no one is up for this, why I don't consider it political.

[01:03:40]

This is a case of politically accountable because a crime had happened. So I don't consider it a case of political accountability. I think that these people were responsible for it. They brought in too lax of people who were extremely aggressive and violent, you know, in the past, before before they destroyed symbolic courts ever happened. They had announced that symbolic conceiver will happen, but nothing of that sort.

[01:04:08]

So that's a very slippery slope. You know, when if you say it should be beyond political accountability and it should be judicial accountability, then any political speech that leads to any pushback anywhere is is drawn in.

[01:04:19]

Some of those are just some of those unjust. But politicians play in on a canvas, the colour of which is determined by the collective conscience of that age. So, you know, for a black lives matter.

[01:04:33]

So let's say Chandrashekhar tomorrow says, like, you know, Sourav Ganguly, who I've interviewed some of his tweets, the let's say those are not tweets. He's making a speech. You know, let's keep it together. Hum, hum, hum. But, you know, they mentioned the cost hum. Then he has referred to Yogya Stokley, OK, or talk to each other then. So he's out there tomorrow. Someone goes and really slaps him on the head.

[01:04:55]

Has that guy is he liable for that? Let him know what I'm saying is then it becomes very if if a speech that is not asking for a specific outcome is also kind of thrown into the judicial accountability, then politics becomes impossible to conduct.

[01:05:12]

It goes beyond the ball, goes beyond the speeches. It was a program organized on December 6th where all these politicians gathered under under and when they were saying they were watching the dome coming down and that is why a crime had happened. So that why you go backwards.

[01:05:30]

If you establish a crime happens, then you have to. I think legally there's grounds to go at people who were complicit. And also, this wasn't even speaking ambiguous terms.

[01:05:40]

The slogan was the Cordeaux. Nobut was that was that O'Dorney slogan.

[01:05:44]

That was that he was leading it, but he never let that slogan know. What I'm saying is that I really think what has to be very careful when one is wanting, you know, not just punishment, but what sort of retribution for people one dislikes, because that same logic can be applied across the board. Divisive and disgusting as his politics is, if there is no specific instruction of him that can be pinned to the outcome, I think it is extremely dangerous to ask for a conviction on that, because by that logic, I think Periyar can be convicted for any attack that happened to Daniel Bremen.

[01:06:18]

And I know in my family it has happened when when you know, when when my grandfather was around at the time.

[01:06:23]

By that logic, Periyar you know, by that logic, you know, Bob, Bombadier can be convicted for crimes of a push back then. Then it goes into a completely different zone.

[01:06:31]

Now, if one if even if a crime has happened, if I'm sitting on a stage and from that stage somebody gives another doctor order and I remain silent, I am complicit. That's what I feel. I don't think legally you are. I am legally. You can be complicit.

[01:06:47]

I am complicit. I mean, if if if someone is giving that Ngara from the same stage, I am complicit. I or I should object targets his famous remarks.

[01:06:57]

I mean something like anybody. But again, it's libertarian.

[01:07:00]

But that again, this wasn't the whole crux of the this wasn't the focus of the case. The case was a conspiracy that they conspired to bring the most on the conspired to commit a crime that is a crime that one has to prove.

[01:07:11]

Like that's what I'm saying. Advani. I don't know if that's a thing. Yes. But definitely sad. We of course, those are definitely to be they have no idea what he was asking people to.

[01:07:23]

In my affidavit, I have said so I'm talking about Advani and those political leaders.

[01:07:26]

I'm not talking about the rest. They are clearly they can be convicted.

[01:07:29]

So I knew the thing to LaBron commission, the intel agencies, all of them apparently had evidence against him, but it was never used. I mean, let alone that one, it wasn't used against. All the others were on tape saying that we did it.

[01:07:43]

And for being party to the crowd. Sure. I mean, maybe not a severe conviction, but six months, one year. I mean, he was still like Ramen's, I said on the stage, being quiet, letting things happen.

[01:07:52]

So when a crime happens, accomplice's of small and big magnitude, ALDERSGATE By the law, for example, the defamation case, if I get convicted as a reporter, my editor also gets convicted for four of whatever little. But he also gets. But I wasn't involved enough.

[01:08:11]

So I'm talking of criminal defamation.

[01:08:15]

So I have a couple of emails after which I would like to discuss a little bit about the US presidential debate.

[01:08:23]

I just watching. I'm sure that he was on the storm all, but it's when you watch this thing. Yeah, definitely. I see.

[01:08:32]

So this email is from OK, he doesn't want me to mention his name or. My God, I wanted to chime in and give you guys a one on one one one zero one unmodern CBD and marijuana culture. Also, we have forgotten about past so well throughout the nineteenth century. We as Indians play the role of drug producers, often reluctant and coerced in a lot of cases. While East India Company made millions of pounds, the original cartel turning generations of Chinese into helpless addicts.

[01:08:59]

Indians on Rudd's payroll helped British fight the canton when they tried to stop the incoming shipments of opium. And businessmen from Calcutta and Mumbai lobbied the queen to send the Royal Navy to keep the supply routes open. And he has sent a YouTube clip to tell us about this, about this.

[01:09:15]

If you really want to feed this in a very great literature on this is and without astrology I trilogy that's partly about the Opium Wars and or missing.

[01:09:26]

Right now I'm reading another classic which is called Hukilau in the next week. So I'm just saying I'm just reading that book. He's such a sarcopenia nutri.

[01:09:36]

OK, so this email is from Shanker. Hello, team chancre here. I am really curious if you're considering doing an episode with a health expert to discuss important scientific aspects of the ongoing pandemic, especially takeaways from some of the most recent sars-cov-2 related research. As a microbiologist, I'm amazed that. Aspects of the pandemic, such a secondary bacterial infection of the virus making and virus makes people in the hospital more prone to herd immunity. And even key details regarding vaccination are discussed at great length.

[01:10:08]

Yes, these are not incredibly glamorous topics, but given where we are right now, I think it is more pressing than ever.

[01:10:13]

I would love to hear the thoughts of a leading health expert in India on a covid-19 related research in the country, if that's something that you think is feasible. Regarding last episode, the discussion on the current education system in India, he shows an orchestra and made my day. I actually expect a little bit of context on how the system has changed over the years or has not before delving into individual comments of the panelists. As someone who has not been part of the Indian education system for nine years now, I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on the now, then and now of the agenda of the education system.

[01:10:45]

And if there is a difference, while we're on the subject of the last episode, I found a lot of them. I got said strange and hypocritical, his suggestion that people should be made to critically think about things from various angles. Feminised, for instance, he suggested in schools was something I found truly hypocritical, given his wrongful mansplaining of feminism various times in the past. This is not to say that I don't agree with his suggestion or that I'm cancelling him.

[01:11:08]

But for someone who also discusses credibility of the famous later on, I couldn't help but wonder. The hypocrisy of that suggestion also expected a stronger argument from the panelists when he said rather nonchalantly that the Bollywood industry should for now just sit and listen and consequently be examined through the authoritative lens of the current government and let things be quietly investigated. I'm hoping that it will take up take the aforementioned statement grossly out of context. But if I did, I apologise and apologise, bro.

[01:11:33]

Thank you for a subscription. Thank you for your support and thank you for this meal. I'll just go to the panel on the then and now. It was truly inspiring to listen to my initial rant, although I do think she went a bit over of completely dismissing school and as another subscriber, I will read that letter has written that while that is true, that is something to be said about schools and how they equalize the playing field to a certain extent.

[01:11:55]

Otherwise only the privileged would be.

[01:11:57]

If I have kids, I won't send them to school or I'll send them with pepper spray and say, use it when someone needs to be topower word, go wild.

[01:12:05]

No, no one is up and then than the one that people like me.

[01:12:11]

But again but again on Giclas agree upon Gregs Balcatta schools as ever. Take up Casilla.

[01:12:17]

You did all my teachers. That's all I think be a big difference. That's something happening is the rapid privatization of education in this country and the consequences of that are going to be catastrophic because that means a lot of the marginalised people are going to the inequality is only going to grow and grow and grow and grow. And another thing is one thing that has remained static is like I agree with many shows, the quality of teachers. I mean, the when they were trying to they brought in that new education policy will do this and that and everything.

[01:12:48]

You can do whatever you want. And the quality of teachers who teaches it is the same. It's not going to help. Although I do think, again, this is a very, I guess, elitist lens. But I have been to a university and I interact with some of the professors there. It is truly an international level university in the sense of the quality of some of the faculty. I'm not saying or at least the ones that I met, which wasn't the case when I was in college.

[01:13:11]

So there was no college in India that had that. But it's very expensive. It's expensive. It's like sending a child abroad, basically. So I think the only then and now, you know, that I will speak about and chancre, whether it's a good thing or a bad thing is I don't know yet.

[01:13:24]

We didn't have enough. That's looking to continue the article.

[01:13:27]

OK, I want to continue the I just think that I knew it a mollycoddling that happens now. I, I don't think a bit of walking around, you know, rocked my world. I think at best it made me a little more disciplined than I would have otherwise been.

[01:13:42]

So I think that I'm not OK. It's OK. I must be something like complete control mechanism myself. I'm not saying you should beat up kids.

[01:13:48]

All I'm saying is that punch them. There has to be some fear.

[01:13:52]

I don't know how you are. I don't know. Maybe if I were to spend three days thinking about it or a lifetime thinking about people who are in education. When I go to school that I had been to and I see no fear.

[01:14:03]

I think it's a problem because we are not in Germany. You know, I have gone to school in Germany. There the rest of society work so well that even if there is no fear of a punishment, a child will do his work because everything works here. The environment a child lives in is an environment that unless you have something to fear, you don't fucking do anything right. You can break a law. You can cut a red light. You can.

[01:14:26]

And if that is the same mindset the child brings to school with him or her, I don't think you can have any sort of discipline imposed.

[01:14:33]

I disagree with this atmosphere.

[01:14:36]

Don't feel sorry for someone that was my someone like me who has gone through this calming culture because we had this current culture and I hated it. And I think I think things can be we can do it much better if we just organise students, you know, in a manner, you know, they they love their work. That's the most important thing. If you if I love my story, I will I will just go for it.

[01:15:02]

But if you wait for the risky thing about if you put fear into my mind, Gisela Caracara, for my huge problems of subcontinent's seem to not get away, as I'm sure everyone would love to work for the community, but for the greater good of society.

[01:15:16]

Why the fuck? I don't know. But I don't fucking want to go to class. I don't want to wake up at seven. This whole volcanic culture really nonsense.

[01:15:25]

I'm not saying you have to in. I think there has to be solved in Oslo wasn't caning but those occasional slap.

[01:15:31]

Now I'm just saying that there has to be basic physical.

[01:15:37]

So you haven't had caning. No. Then you don't know what it takes then you don't know what it slaps on someone like me who still carries the scars you get offending and stuff going on.

[01:15:49]

Your teachers will continue doing school. That's what it looks like. Pinchy will get you on the job.

[01:15:55]

But let's say you let's say he swung and you like moved back. And then if he was fast enough, then he'd say, Atapattu, you've dodged my slap a bit quickly to that.

[01:16:05]

So one of the something would get your order.

[01:16:08]

For example, while I think he was you know, he'd done that kicking your ass you'd like you'd learn like two metres and he was only fixing persons who took it.

[01:16:20]

But we not need to ask other people in your class every once in you know, when I want to hang on.

[01:16:25]

You know, I'm just saying that, you know, the assumption here is that it is like is better. But that's that's argument. I suppose you see someone getting it. That's enough for you to fall in line. I'm not saying everyone was slept fine. It was just a thick skin who got slept. But all I'm saying is I'm not saying you have to get slept, OK? This is the problem I have with schools today. And also someone wrote an article on this on this whole Zoome culture where mothers and grandparents are sitting and saying, I'm sorry, but this is going to stay.

[01:16:52]

Why you're talking to this doctor has also it's a brutal video. He has said that, you know, this is what's going on, how I can't believe the teachers of such low calibre. I was witnessing my child. He says if I was doing surgery and the child's parents are looking over me to jackeroo, I'd say get out if I teachers like these kids and up. But could your sabbatical or toxic work environment klutznick or he's being deprived of Chavira, another boy to go up after genius or so I just think fucking be the next.

[01:17:25]

You can't if you can't take a little bit of whacking around that, stay home.

[01:17:29]

But where does this mollycoddling happen?

[01:17:31]

I mean, apart from like a few elite schools and it still happens everywhere I go to any school can, literally rural areas.

[01:17:39]

But what I didn't know, I didn't feel badly beaten, which is, I think a crime that that is, of course, I remember one of my teachers.

[01:17:49]

You had that compassion in the geometry box maths. He pieced together us with that.

[01:17:54]

Oh, dear. That is to that circumferences problem with most details. I just see it is just absolute. So so if you have any supply teachers, I don't mean everybody you don't need. No, I just give me like 99 percent of them. Not everyone.

[01:18:08]

All right. I want to be a teacher. But you see if like when I was studying. So if the teacher beat you up and you went home to complain, they'd come to the teacher tomorrow and say, good. Exactly.

[01:18:19]

Yeah, you deserved it. That the parents would say I mean, the parents would never complain that they'd be harsher.

[01:18:24]

In fact, just this morning, I was a bit late because we're going to enroll the kids for a football coaching, because now that the regular coaching is closed, the junior football academy is closed.

[01:18:35]

So a friend of mine is organised that there's a one on one training session with the coach. So I took my niece and nephew and they were with the coach and the coaches. They were going to do this. They'll do that drill in the middle of fighting with each other. In the middle of thing. I'm better than you know. Yeah. That true kick each other that and he's saying, come on, come on, focus. Pay attention, pay attention.

[01:18:52]

Fucking you a bloody parent. You got kick ass. Now I went to him.

[01:18:56]

I said, you can't. I said, you can't tell. My niece and nephew said, come on, come on. They're not going to listen to you man. They'll do whatever.

[01:19:03]

So I said the next time you will raise your voice. Otherwise they're not gonna listen to you. That's the fact they will do their own thing.

[01:19:10]

No, I don't think that's true. I mean, if you know how to teach without I mean, I have had I have been lucky to have such teachers also.

[01:19:17]

I mean, who I never saw pick up a stick, but they were the best teachers.

[01:19:21]

Yeah. And it's the language teachers were really nice, at least in my experience. It's been the Hindi and English teachers have been nice.

[01:19:27]

My teacher talks about his he had only studied up to late class eleven or something. I haven't seen a better teacher than him.

[01:19:35]

What do you teach? Everything like history because school.

[01:19:38]

No, but I've had some wonderful teachers in life and I've had some terrible teachers in life, just like I've had some wonderful colleagues in life and I have some terrible colleagues in life. So I think it's it's not unique to anyone.

[01:19:49]

Yeah, it's not uniform. Yeah.

[01:19:51]

But the only thing I think is why it is the circumstance makes it unique. Not the individual, the professionals, the. Because as a professional, when I was in Newstrike, I was a fairly confident 20 year old, so it didn't even matter if the boss, you know, 20 years older than me yelled at me, just water off my back when you're 12.

[01:20:10]

Yeah. Then it's different. So the circumstances different. The people aren't. And I just find like I had a teacher who used to love humiliating her, make me sit on the ground and work. And I used to find humiliating at the time and till date, I think that person was a sadist and a sick human being. And that guy would kiss the asses of all these knots and all know the rich kids and the minister's son because, you know, they are looking for somebody postretirement or fucking this thing.

[01:20:35]

So, of course, you have those kind of teachers, but you also had wonderful teachers.

[01:20:38]

You know, there were all sorts of shit.

[01:20:40]

And life is going to throw all sorts of shit at you. If you want to protect your child from the shit, then when the child actually goes out into the world to then be ready for a bloody huge slap on the face, a metaphorical one while you save the children.

[01:20:52]

I'm just saying.

[01:20:54]

But OK, so Mitt says the opinion that I have taught him. Thanks for an outstanding episode 295. I hope this is a permanent addition to the band and more women voices, please. I was also glad to hear it and get on the podcast. Jayton seems to be one of those people who is traversing a line with more dissimilar to the Gartner hype cycle. One of oldest cheerleaders in his early days, he now seems to be in a trough of disillusionment.

[01:21:16]

The issue is that our democracy has become so presidential in nature that most well-meaning people don't see an alternative. I suspect that despite despite his criticism, Jayton and other such commentators won't help bring in an alternative. Hence, the rest of the diagram applies to the diagram that Smith is referring to is you can see it on our website. This article will be there, this letter. But on the y axis of the expectation and on the X axis this time and where that Y and X meet at zero point is all Gujarat model exclamation mark.

[01:21:46]

Then it rises steeply. That means the expectations rise steeply in very little time. And then they reach the peak of Asheton. I never unavailing.

[01:21:55]

And then that graph collapses again very quickly to the more GST locked down, farmable. OK, so that is when people are more disillusioned and expected to have gone down. Then again, they slowly rise. You know, I got the that there is no alternatively and then they flat, they flatten and then it just goes flat. Expectations aren't going up or down. Then on the x axis, that's dayme. This line is parallel to the x axis and expectation remains that doesn't go up or down.

[01:22:23]

And that line is called the shallow Piddock. But so then a couple of other points that are wonderful. Graphic artist Smith is making a hold on and say that creative thinking and other such new fangled ideas can be taught in the classroom. I think on and has the same misconception of creative thinking that most of us have. We equate the creative process with genius. Yet you can't teach genius, but you can teach the creative process, which is not dependent on a moment of brilliance.

[01:22:49]

Creativity is about putting the hard yards of framing a hypothesis, proving or disproving it, testing ideas with real consumers. And literally till you get it right, this is what design schools teach. But it's a literacy worth introducing in schools about genius. In many, if not all cases, genius comes from years of deliberate practice. So creativity or genius isn't really exclusive of the rigor that I don't advocate for. While I agree with Maneesha stated against schools, I think a good school system levels the playing field.

[01:23:16]

I know speaking of the Finnish system is almost a cliche, but there is something to be said about creating a free and compulsory education system that actually works. I know that I've had the controlling loser type teachers who have hated as well. But at the same time there are a large number of passionate teachers working in very resource constrained environments who need facilities, good remuneration and regular training projects like Arvind Gupta's Science Center and Gandhinagar need to find their way into mainstream education so we enrich teachers and children's lives at school instead of being overly harsh to the system.

[01:23:47]

Sumit, thanks so much for that wonderful meal and for support. You have something to say to anyone?

[01:23:53]

I think he makes a good point. I mean, if you pick the best teachers and train them, like give them the best training there is, you can see like a huge, huge improvement and all other things like that later.

[01:24:05]

I mean, you can give them resources.

[01:24:06]

Also, if the teacher is not good, they'll be wasted then this minister, Abhisit Naarah budget says, I've been following your work for the past four or five months and I've been a disruptor for about two months. I work in a BPO in Mumbai, currently working from home. I listen to a podcast working, especially after I eagerly wait for each episode not only to find informative, but it sets a benchmark for how discussions should be conducted, in my opinion.

[01:24:27]

Special thanks, Monisha, for diving into the toxicity of our news channels to bring us the gem of TV news.

[01:24:33]

And thank you all for Lepani and the only place you have ever heard such pure Hengdian makes me like the language magnate for Constitution, which was insanely better humorous and informative than the civics lecture I got in school.

[01:24:45]

I'm in Denver, Colorado.

[01:24:46]

Johnny, thank you for your contribution and various interviews and shows the host and Ramun on and then Meraj for the well read comments and observations on the topics of discussion. Thank you. I know you guys have read this. I think the heartless rape case would like you to put the emphasis on what should be actually done by the government in such a case besides swift action.

[01:25:04]

Yeah, I mean, what what specific if you could influence what you could do right now. What specific would you want them to at once more.

[01:25:13]

You mean in terms of this case? Yes. Yes. The justice in this case, in this case, just material evidence as you go, you you follow. Of course, this is very simple. I mean, the three persons, four persons who have been arrested would have this is what have the police have they been they have the clothes been sent for the forensic test. The woman in what condition this girl was found about her clothes and whether she was medically examined at that time, not after seven days.

[01:25:40]

I mean, at that time, whether she was also you need to it if you if you are thought of as your investigation, you will do justice. And I think the first thing you should do is you should just fire some of those cops.

[01:25:53]

I think that just put the fear of God into the list. Exactly. We are not suspending transferred to someone should be fired and criminal investigation should start. At least that will make sure that the rest are shitting bricks.

[01:26:04]

That dude, if I don't do my job properly, I think the bosses I don't know if all the cops were the the boss cop would have taken the decision.

[01:26:10]

S.B and the CMA has, you know, set up a safety team investigating into this that that is the problem.

[01:26:18]

If you don't want anything to happen here, everybody is going to come in to manage your situation.

[01:26:25]

Yeah, but as a phenomenon, like I said earlier, it's a social system. So the solution has to be social. That government has the most beautiful.

[01:26:32]

14 a.m. Kamal says, hi, guys. And one awesome girl loved the latest Hafter.

[01:26:38]

And it will be the world's just Udaltsov. Yes. And he was. I love how that couldn't ruin it. That's not nice. I told you guys only.

[01:26:46]

Well, I mean, this is mean than predicted. This mean we're here to predict it. Yeah. Yeah, I liked it then.

[01:26:52]

But the thing is, I think not only is it's water off his back, early history, very sensitive about this. I'm glad it isn't anymore. Totally agree with Maneesha.

[01:26:59]

School sucks my joint. You know, bones when ananas transferred the better still.

[01:27:04]

OK, I'm not a complete. That's not very cruel. Come on. You are you are you maybe not sedating because Olerud.

[01:27:12]

See alcohol can be so cruel but. But thank you for a subscription nevertheless.

[01:27:18]

But Convento specifically bad when it comes to schools.

[01:27:21]

Government schools in public schools actually know how much radiation ecclesia in India kabaddi me.

[01:27:29]

Whatever you say about India, the opposite is also true. It is a most accurate cliche, but the point I want to make is that no one says anything. No one is saying from one's own context. But in India, everyone's context is so different they would have to.

[01:27:40]

If I'm if I say your schools building program, you know, another person could say what you did because they admitted that because it's very hard to you is updated here.

[01:27:52]

But I'm giving a gross bit of information gave up on initial data matlab up Bartolomé second thought hand someone guess I'd better edit it, if you know what I mean.

[01:28:02]

Now that you had no choice, could give the average Aligarh Islamabad from the government. What I said about trauma, I've got to make it clear we're going to a law and order after they cook it off. Either way, we will suck the hell out of the state will want to India this year.

[01:28:19]

And he absorbed the context of that's all I'll tell you from personal experience, the not just this the facilities and sort of the culture, the culture, the sense of accountability. It's so vastly different.

[01:28:31]

I have been a teacher in a village, private school and a grammar school, both for like several months, villages two kilometers apart. The difference is, I can't tell you the way the teachers, the parents sort of expect accountability from teachers, the way kids learn, the way teachers teach the sense of duty.

[01:28:50]

It's so vastly different. I can't tell you also.

[01:28:53]

But, you know, because I had known not what it does. So but I'm saying after just about castrato up OPNET Ghoulardi here, the here Jezebel, a professor Rothko's up. I don't know whether you have friends in Islamabad and stuff.

[01:29:10]

You know a lot about University of Vacay, but the teachers are scared of students at school. I think, what a month ago a case of this 14 year old boys having raped a child. I mean, what you're saying is it in a society where and I'm always reluctant, like, for example, no matter how heinous the crime, I have never been an advocate of criminal punishment for anyone who is a minor, even in the case of the of duty duty of Delhi, because when you go down that road, do then then it becomes a very slippery slope.

[01:29:40]

So now when you have that four year old child now, I'm not saying every child in that school is a rapist, but that is the you see, that is the ITR that they are swimming in. What are you going to get the child to listen to? You better come. They can make your class more interesting. Like, what the fuck are you going to get a child who is giving. Of rape at the age of 14. Now, I'm not saying everyone is capable of rape, but all I'm saying is that one tends to forget the environment, that us and I have brought this up in the past and have written a column on this one.

[01:30:09]

I used to write for NDTV when I was showing this video of this cop who was punishing this this fellow by dragging him on the bike. And it's just a talker to Colorado to disclose about 160 bike to Joe Karata, upbeat about of sponsorship, were running behind, laughing and kicking this guy. Now, when the child becomes 12, what the fuck are you going to let that baby listen to me? Because I'm a teacher. He just fucking kicked a guy was almost dead being dragged.

[01:30:37]

So I'm just saying, when you live in a society like this, you got to I mean, you can't have these little or is this sort of, you know, government BS that everybody's going to be wonderful? I think it's extremely frustrating being a teacher and a social problem.

[01:30:49]

You're dealing with all the poison that has been poured into these little shits in front of you here. How are you going to deal with them?

[01:30:55]

So the funny thing is, when I was teaching in my own school, a lot of kids were minibars. Right? Whenever I used to tell them anything, they wouldn't listen to me because, like, they're sort of they would play cricket with me at home and stuff and all that. So in school, when I told them something as a teacher, they would never listen. I had nothing to I couldn't do anything about it.

[01:31:16]

So this letter from the man, the man says, I finally caved in. I'm no longer move out. Cordiale three aldermen have converted from Wolfert to hippopotami from overthought to a paying subscriber, the brief mention of farmable in the most recent half hour.

[01:31:32]

Souderton, considering that its impact and ramifications are huge to the Indian economy, here are a few thoughts.

[01:31:38]

My focus will only be on the protests in Punjab and Haryono. The farmers, especially from Haryana and Punjab, are not devoid of new technologies or knowledge about the procurement of produce. But it is rather the small landholdings and the consequent small buying power, which limits the farmer from seeking independent harvest post harvest and procurement budget. The solution lies with the local and state level partners who want to operate independently from the BMC system, which keeping the system going for big land holders.

[01:32:08]

Here is an example.

[01:32:09]

If I own two acres of land in Punjab, then I can perhaps go into wheat tomato crop rotation. This situation provides a fixed income from my spring harvest with wheat from a PMC and additional income from a tie up with a local business that makes things like tomato chutney or ketchup or whatever. You get the idea for my summer or fall crop like tomato, he has that, you know, that ketchup microchip maker. This will ensure a gradual decline from PADI and a slow relief from its stubble burning.

[01:32:35]

I realize that this is a simplified version of what actually is a complicated issue, such as crop rotation or diversification, and will bring a new host of challenges, as well as emergence of new pests, disease resistant varieties, labor management, soil health problems and many more. The point is that this government is bulldozing these farm bills only to provide a smoother pavement for big corporations to roll into fertile land while converting them from owners to contractors. Let's not forget the hard work, patience and greed that is required of the local and state level entrepreneurs and entities for the current system to be successful.

[01:33:08]

If they want to keep big Mugga much like Ambani and Adani out of the land. And then the has gone on to agree with Maneesha. He said he started in India and he studied abroad and and it sucks the way he was taught. But the complexity of the still happy.

[01:33:23]

I'm so happy. I hope one of your teachers is listening.

[01:33:26]

My diary. I hope there I could go back to one of the schools. Actually, I get invited for like a speech and then I can go off to the teachers.

[01:33:35]

By the way, PMC is Agricultural Produce Market Committee and then farming and just reminded me by the revolution season is back in the stable, started burning. And today I think it was two hundred.

[01:33:44]

I checked air quality back then.

[01:33:48]

So we are back to that. That's unfortunate. But you know, on the farm bill we had an explainer of the bill, which may not have done, but I've moderated a session we did in partnership. It should be on the site in the next day or two on the farm bill. So on that I had Eyjafjallajökull on the panel. So it should be up, I think, in the next few days on our website. So you can see a bit of a discussion there.

[01:34:13]

The only reason we did not really get into it is because as journalists, we may be able to give you a little bit of depending on the bill, but on the actual farming, I know very little out of the romancer Monisha Meraj mean a little bit because you guys have orchards. But that's a different kind of farming.

[01:34:27]

Yeah.

[01:34:28]

What's the word for fruit growing orcharding know like horticulture in horticulture is horticultural flower and when you grow that's floriculture horticulture.

[01:34:39]

I mean mostly we grow apple as a cash crop.

[01:34:41]

So it's outside of the minimum support price regime of PADI. We grow, but that's only for our own consumption.

[01:34:48]

It's not a cash crop so, so dominant that I guess we'll have to do a separate discussion and review, but have to go and be the kind with the space for that then. Alhurra says, My name is reporter from Magaly Chattisgarh, running a startup which is on the verge of closure as a result, providing me with a free time to write to you. Great work by one and all in your team. I can feel the pain in his voice when he reads out the subscriber's letters to find everyone praising Maneesha.

[01:35:13]

I am closer than we are meritocracy. Gacek. I don't even want to be your teacher.

[01:35:18]

Sometimes I've been in.

[01:35:22]

So here I'm not mentioning the insanely hilarious work done by her innocence coming to the reason why I wrote. I understand that at times the discussion often gets frustrating with the kinds of things happening in the country. So I just want to share a short story for amusement and to lighten the mood. So one Sunday morning, Mumbai police are playing cricket among themselves. Moments later, a small crowd gathered and watched them play something like that. Mumbai police is just a level cricket and is not playing that well.

[01:35:48]

That ended the CBA of hasn't told them about this, Seabridge, the field and with the authorities on Mumbai police, I don't know how to play cricket. Let me show you. And started playing instead. After all, it came to the field with their hockey sticks only to find the CBA was already playing cricket. It laughter. CVN told them of the field playing in the cricket field. Hockey will see we are too embarrassed by this revelation.

[01:36:07]

Quietly went to the small corner of the field and continued playing that often Otto saw the star team from inside the field. They told you that the ball that they were playing with is not a hockey ball, but as a football they chased them away from the field and started a football match. It's been four months and the football match is still on, which now seems like a WWE royal rumble match every few weeks.

[01:36:26]

A new really, really, really well and good. A brilliant, brilliant. You just become a storywriter. Even if you're are. I'm curious, why are you shutting down your startup? Is it covid or is it something else?

[01:36:40]

Because this has really led to a lot of companies folding up, unfortunately, that this email is from, OK, he doesn't want to be named I a post graduate student teaching in a hospital.

[01:36:51]

It's been catering to covid patients for the better part of the year. And mortality and job loss aside, we are a silent casualty of this entire spectacle. Ah, academic loss, a totally blind spot in the media.

[01:37:00]

And otherwise, all the postgraduate residents are exclusively seeing only covid patients, which you don't have a problem with, but missing out on attending to patients of our chosen speciality, the regular or PD and all the services have been shut since March. Seeing the world slowly trudge back to normalcy makes us half joke. If one the only ones left to resume any semblance of a normal life are us and the multiplex owners. But seriously, the three years of postgraduation is where the academic and clinical skills of specialisation are learned.

[01:37:30]

The undergraduate medical students are totally devoid of any real clinical exposure to, but they have years to make up for it. Some will say that other disciplines are going through the same level, but I can say with confidence that's not really true. The last batch of postgraduates had their degree exams with virtual patients, as in images of videos in a pretty tight format. Dear God, these doctors look fine. Yeah, you're right, man. You win this.

[01:37:54]

I'm not sure if there's a story here worthy of follow up or if you could even like to take this out in the open as you are basically students in the world of a degree at this stage. So, yes, basically this letter was just to crib and let our frustration be known.

[01:38:08]

But who am I kidding? Who even listens to have the thanks man and a shout out to the underappreciated on and overdone when the march coming. So the end in March will actually be back soon.

[01:38:20]

We have some we have some new bottles being made. We have some new teachers being made. The only thing the last time I got like a thousand 2000 T-shirts made and also absolutely sure, no one could buy anything.

[01:38:31]

But I don't know, the last batch of soaps went out like Puttock Man in like three weeks they were gone. So we've ordered a new batch during the rally. They'll be available for subscribers. And by the way, those are horrible soaps. They're really nice. There's a jasmine soap, there's a lemongrass soap and there's an orange soap and the actual herbal soaps. I've been using them for years.

[01:38:49]

They don't Frodo. They're not supposed to frothier. That's the thing.

[01:38:53]

You see, these are the reasons it's I remember. That's all I was.

[01:38:59]

It's not it's not it's not from the chemical from Catholic India, mother of Kasarda Dryness, Dionisio Capital, Choco's, other Kweskin Yorgi Naturalizer.

[01:39:08]

It adds not implicitly what I give you my fraternity from the advice they got. So I.

[01:39:18]

But honestly, guys, no, I don't know the difference between the just to let you know, the CODI soaps that are there in the market which also go to Fabinho, our manufacturers the same. It's just the brand isn't used and their branded market.

[01:39:32]

So it's the same soap that goes to them that's coming soon by just letting you know. So but we have other models coming up. Also, you guys should know then Nezha says I'm a new subscriber and I would like to applaud all of you for the great work you're doing.

[01:39:46]

I got introduced and used on Venusians and now cannot miss a single episode. When you are doing a wonderful job, I feel a bit sorry for them to have to consume all the nonsense in the mainstream media. I'm currently working at the. Scientists in Germany and living here for almost three years before which I lived in Japan for six years, my God, wow. In Germany, we need to pay separate fees for public broadcasting so as to limit commercial outlets similar to the New Zealand model.

[01:40:08]

I was a bit annoyed in the beginning, but now I understand how important it is, having lived in Japan and Germany, always wondered how the people of these countries could have even supported, could have ever supported the fascist regimes. Based on the little that I have read on the rise of Nazism in Germany and the discussion of my colleague, one of the good indicators of trouble is a loss of freedom of the press. Hence, the current situation of media and governance in India scares me.

[01:40:33]

We just need to keep reminding ourselves that we don't want to be on the wrong side of history. Having said that, I don't agree with Jiten Baggot when he said in the last half that it is the fault of people of India who look for entertainment even on consuming news.

[01:40:44]

I don't think there is anything wrong with mixing entertainment with news. I myself prefer watching America's late night shows by Trevor Noah, John Oliver, etc., or news on race TV nuisance to the news channels. These shows sometimes make it easy to digest news, and the problem is not with mixing, editing or news, but providing false news, sensationalism, blaming audiences.

[01:41:04]

The easiest thing we can do, and it's a cyclical argument. No, I mean giving the news and see if they like it or not.

[01:41:11]

And also it is our duty, even as news people to be engaging. So you can be on your heels and say, I view boring news and you must like it. We have to write in a way that more people can understand. We have to talk in a way that more people can understand. Yes, definitely. But what is not being made if you just bring sensationalism and then single people like it, give them something else and they like it to be between, you know, that, and then just boring, dull stuff.

[01:41:35]

And finally this evening, Sheikh, who says I'm a regular subscriber for years on and off, thought of writing, but always held back by. But the intellectual quality of the mail you receive, I don't even have an iota of that much clarity in thought, language skills, etc. Nor do I. Doesn't stop me when my educational background does not include any great university of my professional career, including something outstanding. Same. We are both Sam, Sam, all of us.

[01:41:59]

I'm part of the mainstream of below average, OK. And every software engineer and currently working years. OK, I think now you're pushing it. Yeah.

[01:42:06]

Yeah. So it's up to you as I'm sorry.

[01:42:10]

Don't, don't be such a this thing also don't don't. We lectured on budget all my to you. You have it good bro.

[01:42:16]

But he says he loves how Tigerlily virtually every weekend. His favorite is Maneesha. He also smocked listens to.

[01:42:23]

He also checks out print often and he likes to play a lot on the news are often more inclined towards procedural bureaucratic in nature.

[01:42:32]

I find maharajahs opinion biased, but like to hear them in order to understand the mindset of people of the valley which are in the heartland. A guy like me can never understand or relate to.

[01:42:43]

So thank subject for subscription and thank you for writing in and you should not be too self-conscious about articulating your views on that note.

[01:42:52]

Have you missed out anything that we should have discussed or can we go to the recommendations you wanted to discuss U.S. elections?

[01:42:58]

I didn't really follow the debates. I don't know where you have some. I watched the debate. Yeah, I just watched snippets. I thought that Trump I mean, not that there was any doubt. I'm amazed that people will still vote for this guy. I'm amazed. And what I mean is this any more Tiger Woods Americans in America first did that. He gave al Qaeda of the Indians were supporting him, not even against the Indians here. They amazed me the most.

[01:43:23]

He mentioned India twice, both times to shit on us in his debate, once to say that we are underreporting cases, which is a fact, which is a fact. But second time. But but he's no friend of India. He's no friend of anyone. He's basically a dude. Anyway, I don't know what to say, but I would love to. But the thing is that those debates are important. Sardina can partly at that. Bartholet at that it will be available on utilites.

[01:43:48]

The full thing is that and the one thing was his not wanting to condemn white supremacists.

[01:43:54]

And actually the proud boys are a bunch of white losers who like to dress up as who's that Pakistani guy on Twitter? He keeps they've locked him in and he's to keep putting videos of this all you fire. He was a red beret, weird guy.

[01:44:09]

Someone with his name is.

[01:44:11]

Yeah, he has this crazy like he's a wannabe commando.

[01:44:14]

And, you know, he's like those losers who were in his backyard. They got bananas come out of control. They're so proud boys, a bunch of those kind of losers. And for him to say stand back and stand by is if he wins after this, then the fucking world is going to. Schitt's Creek is adamant that Hamet.

[01:44:32]

Correct. That's the. No, but this is the thing. I mean, the last election, if it showed anything, it was that people don't really like unless we are in the media we're obsessed about, oh, what did he say? How did he moon the stage and all that? But people don't actually vote based on that.

[01:44:48]

Every debate that happened last time across the media, it was no Hillary Clinton bashed him, destroyed him and all that. Turned out there wasn't the case. Hmm, so on that note, I would like to urge all of you to subscribe to news on your behalf. We give you our recommendations and better keep news free.

[01:45:08]

Like I said, our new website has been sent out for testing, I think, to our 100 of your subscribers who had volunteered to test it out. I believe your recommendations have already started coming back to Toronto. Tells me many suggestions have come in. We will be incorporating many of the suggestions going forward. They can't all be incorporated together, but we have some very valuable feedback from you guys. Once that website is we are satisfied and it goes live hopefully behind a paywall.

[01:45:32]

I would urge you to subscribe and industry. And we also have, you know, reporters and yuppy. We're going to be reporting a bunch of these things from the ground. And while someone says that this the new Web ad is from it starts would be the rape that happened after hotrods. Well, we will be following up on that as well, 710 km from Delhi.

[01:45:54]

But we will send someone there will follow up on that as well. We will definitely bring you reports because you guys sustain us and support us, not the advertiser.

[01:46:03]

So on that note, can I please get the recommendations if he wants to start thomasa all the commander, an article written by me, my crippled testimony, this is I wrote for the Open magazine when the Leblon Commission report had come. So the same affidavit had also gone for, you know, the seat going to the CBI court. And this is a story that how things get twisted when, you know, in a court of law. So that is one.

[01:46:34]

And second, I would suggest a series of stories that we are going to do on Yuppy and the rape culture. Two of our reporters are concerned that if they were in yuppy, so they were located in the campus where we have done three, we have followed three rape cases. And of course, they have done one story on Nattrass. And we are getting one more follow up, follow up and plus also the two videos stories. So so I think you should look forward to read them.

[01:47:04]

I have three recommendations. One is longer read in The Guardian. It was published last week. It's called the Disruption Con. It's about how the tech revolution is supposedly about disrupting everything. But as you would understand from the headline, it says, The Disruption Gone Why Big Tex favorite buzzword is nonsense.

[01:47:23]

The second is a small, short film that's been made by Rajesh, many who, as it happens, writes for us often. The movie is called. The film is called Though Discrete Charms of the Southern US.

[01:47:39]

Please watch it any more on it.

[01:47:41]

But it's what the what and the third. It's not so much a recommendation.

[01:47:46]

Please go to our website and open the story we have done on the Hatra sleep and then take a couple of minutes, half a minute, a minute and look at the picture we have used for the the top image of the slippers of that girl who was killed, just stared at it for a minute and just do nothing.

[01:48:05]

As I suggested earlier, while suggesting in the video with Madhu, Rahmon, Atul and Matenga talking about the as a demolition. It's really a must watch a piece in the Indian Express today, meticulously planned Martok owners just Lebaran and Babri massive demolition. So this person surely knows a thing or two about it. A piece from twenty years ago by Beinart. It's called a Deal. It goes to court and basically tells you how tough it is. And it's quite amazing that this was written 20 years ago and there's been such slow progress it could have just been written to be.

[01:48:38]

My recommendations are going to be about the hotrods case. I think it is important. One reads as many reports of this as possible because ground report says what is going to make news survive. And without that, it's just going to, you know, die.

[01:48:52]

I think also do check out the video of the protests, how they were dealt with in Yuppy just to understand the environment. One is enough impunity. And at least if you have any stakes in India, you would focus your energy on this, at least for this week, because it is so disturbing what has happened and how the impunity of the government and the police. So whatever you can read on this, do read.

[01:49:18]

And even as we regarding this Section 144 has been imposed, not allowing media to enter the village, now we allowing the media to enter. So that's where we are in India.

[01:49:28]

On that note, do you listen to other podcasts? Shekhar reports, go to our website and subscribe and contribute to saving news reportage and journalism.

[01:49:41]

I leave you with this song. But you need to be. It might be. Yes, I'm me, Peter, Peter, my Michael. Maybe someday I might have made him look like. All the news laundry podcasts are available on Stitcher, iTunes and any other podcast platforms, please subscribe to News Laundry, help us keep news independence.

[01:50:34]

You've got all our podcasts on news, pop culture, current affairs and sport. Visit Yusra on the dot com. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and subscribe to our YouTube channel.