I'm Jenna Fischer, and I'm Angela Kinsey. We were on the office together and we're best friends and now we're doing the ultimate office rewash podcast just for you. Each week we will break down an episode of the office and give exclusive behind the scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you where the office ladies. Hey there, everyone, it's Angela Kinsey, it's Jenna Fischer, and we are here to talk to you this week about the job.

Yes, it's the end of season three. Angela, this is the season three finale. I can't believe we're already at the season three finale.

I can't either. I can't either. I was into my husband the other day. I was like, Big Jim and I have talked for a year now about the show. And it doesn't even feel like any time has gone by. I mean, I think we just really enjoy hanging out and talking with each other and also talking about the show.

Well, this is actually the job. Part one. This is an hour long episode finale. So we're dividing it into two episodes of office ladies so that we can really cover everything.

This was written by Paul Lieberstein and Mike Shaw and directed by Ken Coppice, Jonah, do you know it was also coedited, not only co-written, but it was coedited with Dave Rodgers and Dean Holland.

Wow. Because it was such a big episode.

We put everyone on this all hands on deck. Well, here is a summary for part one.

Before leaving for his interview and confident he already has a new job at corporate, Michael names Dwight as his replacement at Dunder Mifflin Scranton. Angela could not be more excited. Oh, yeah. But before Michael can leave, Jan pays a surprise visit, she shows Michael her new breast enhancement and says she wants to get back together. Jim and Karen leave early as they are also interviewing for the job at corporate, Dwight makes Andy his number two, since Andy is the only person who would interview for the position.

And that's just the first half, there's more to come. Yeah, well, listen, to kick off this finale episode, we have a surprise guest. We're so excited. Writer Toby himself, Paul Lieberstein, Toby is in the house. Well, you know, in the Zoome house, Toby is in the house.

Oh, well, we asked him all about being Toby and all about this episode. Sam, will you play the interview?

Hello, Paul Lieberstein, welcome to office, ladies. Hello, is that. Hello, and Jack is a thank you for having me.

Oh, thanks so much for being on. My pleasure. We're so excited to have you today.

Thank you. Thank you.

We were texting and I know you were texting with Angela as well. And you told us that you have not seen an episode of the show since it aired, but that you were going to watch the job today. How was that experience for you? I'm dying to know.

It was it was really interesting. I felt like there's moments that really, really shined.

And and then there's the right part of me is like, OK, I think I would have done that a little differently now, but I didn't think there was anything that was embarrassing.

No, you are so hard on yourself. This is an amazing delight.

I know you and you're such an amazing writer. And I can see you watching things through the filter of like, oh, and you're a producer and you direct. So I imagine you're watching it through all those different layers.

Yeah, yeah. There's everything. It's like framing. It's like, OK, I should be a or that was repetitive.

We already said that Paul didn't need to do it again, but then I get really impressed with some other stuff. Well we do.

I always like to start by asking people how they came to be on the office. You are one of our original writers and you were with us the entire nine seasons. You were our showrunner as well for a period of time.

How did it come about that you were on the show? Well, I had worked with Greg Daniels before, I had known him a very long time and we did King of the Hill together. And when they started the show, I, I stopped by the pilot and I had nothing to do with the pilot, but I stopped by a few days and it was I just kind of love what was happening. And it was I love the British. And so then when it got picked up, I was I was psyched that he asked me to come on.

So this was like kind of a very traditional thing that the writers and actors are kind of separating on a TV show and they're kind of asked not to talk. And he at this point was questioning a lot of those like rules. And why was this happening? And this is this really make a better TV show. So we talked about roles for it was Mindy and B.J. and myself and Mike. And then there was a couple of consultancies, Lester and Larry.

So the four of us each got little roles, I guess mixed didn't come on most and start that season. But so we talked about just doing a little thing to kind of have the experience of being an actor and hopefully it would inform.

Are writing. So here he wanted to kind of like break that down together, so I feel like I'm not sure how to tell what happened, but I feel like I left the room and I came back and they said, you're going to you're going to play this part. And it was one line, you know, in Diversity Day about, you know, I say this one line and get kicked out of the room.

Now, I heard Paul and you tell me if this is true.

I heard that at the table read they had you read that line and that Steve, as Michael jumped on you so viciously and everyone erupted in laughter because you sort of almost reacted a little bit as yourself and a little bit maybe how you thought Toby might, you know, but you still didn't know who Toby was at that moment, right? You're still discovering who is Toby?

There were early table reads where it was just like weird contractual reasons, just the main five actors. And I was I was reading Kevin. Yeah, you read it. Party controls.

Yeah. And I think I did. Well, I think I got get it.

I think that the supporting cast wasn't there because you were guest stars and you were not series regular. So in a series regular contract you're required to do the table read.

It's part of your acting deal, but I think they have to pay you more o to attend those if you don't have that kind of contract. That sounds right.

Yeah. You know, it's interesting because I as a guest. Are they they say you're invited. Yeah. Right. Not required. You're invited if you would like to come. And I always do. But but I think you're right. And it wasn't until after booze cruise that we started coming to table reads.

Yeah. So Paul, you read a bunch of roles and and everyone laughed when Michael jumped on you as Tobey. And I feel like that helped seal the deal.

But we also didn't expect that part to come back ever. Oh, that's how they got. Yeah, that's what my sure. That's what Mike sure said about Moe's. I was just supposed to be a silly photo, you know.

Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

You started as a photo and then years later you had to walk around with that beard for like a whole year, a whole season, because Greg wouldn't let him use a fake one. And it all started because he was just going to be in a photo. And then the fake one looked better, I think.

Yes. And then he was furious because he had had that huge beard and fake one work just as well.

Well, Paul, how was that experience? Was Greg right? Did you feel like you learned from the experience of being an actor?

I absolutely did. But it took a while to get there. I don't know if you remember, but we were doing this kind of room bit about like my acting school.

I do remember your acting a little bit. It's OK. So imagine going into acting, knowing nothing about acting. And the first thing you're being taught is take your water bottle off your desk, put it underneath your desk. So because the the label isn't clear. All right. Just now, the first thing I know about acting, you know, and it was like things like that, they made up my act school.

I remember also I remember Rain would just write you so hard like you go. She goes, Hey, Paul, you're like, dang it.

Because she she was supposed to be married up in the moment.

You're in a scene. And I remember the rain would like, tease you so hard.

Yeah, there was very little acting. I was doing the there was a breakthrough moment for me. They kept saying, talk louder. And I wouldn't because I know you're talking to a person right here. Why would I talk louder?

And you just ruled out multichannels for yourself. But that's okay. Yeah. And theater and theater. And then so I was that we were doing a kitchen scene and they kept telling me to speak up. And then Brian said, why don't you imagine? Like, this room is artificially quiet because they turned off the refrigerator. Right. Because what do you imagine that the refrigerators are you have to talk about? Oh, an actor does that.

You know, if it is like and it wasn't just like one little thing, it was like, oh, an actor has to put all these all those little details.

It has to justify anything that needs to be done. They don't just do what feels real. They have to, like, find a way to do what they need to do and make it feel real.

I love hearing that. Is this something that you've brought to other projects, Paul, as a writer, showrunner, creator of shows, have you asked your writing staff to act at all?

I did not see on Ghost did. I had Blitz's brother Andy blitzed and created a part for him.

Well, I have to say and Jen and I have talked about this a lot and we talked about this one, Greg came on as well that we loved that we got to be around the writers we loved.

When we got to go up into the writers room, sometimes we would shoot over. A warehouse, and there was that back stairwell that went up where your kitchen was with your snacks and we would come up and hang out. Yeah, and and it was really fun for us to have you guys on set. And and it's hard for me to imagine other shows now without that creative collaboration and that feeling of safety and trust.

And we've all worked on other shows where it is not the case and it's it's something I really cherish.

Yeah, me too. I was right. It was it would breaking down that wall made us understand each other a lot better. And we all worked together.

Well, speaking of having to team up for this episode, the job you teamed up with, make sure you guys co-wrote this episode. How did that work?

I have kind of a memory of the Swiss at the end of the season and a long season and a lot of episodes are lit in different way. So it wasn't that Mike and I went off into a room together and then came out with this show. I think that we both were running. The process of writing this episode together, you know, and we would we be doing it all out with some writers would come in and out, but we would be the two people.

I was there making sure the episode was what we wanted. And then he would go take a scene, I would say a scene, or he would take a few writers to take a scene and I would do the same. I think that's basically how this one worked.

It's funny that you mention working in groups like that, because I remember there were times on the set where Greg would call me Offset. You would say, are you in the scene or in the scene? OK, I've got three writers talking about Jim and Pam. I want you to sit in on that. Go in there. Go in there.

Oh, my gosh. We get so excited.

I would be like, oh, I can't wait. I can't wait. And I just listened. And sometimes I would throw out ideas. But that was so cool because you guys would kind of divide up a script and like a group of three people would go work on Dwight stuff and then another three people would work on some other aspect of the story, at least from my my little bit of experience in the writers room.

Well, it was it was episode by episode, you know, and some came in, some were really like conceived by the writer and went straight all the way through. And some were extremely collaborative. But even when a writer did it by himself or herself, there was you there was tons of discussion about what was going to happen.

Mm hmm. Well, a big storyline in this episode is that Jan and Michael get back together and Jan has had breast augmentation.

And we're so curious about this storyline, like how did it come about? Did you talk to Laura about it and working with Melera and Steve? What was that like?

I think there was a card on the wall for a long time. I said Jan gets a boob job and was looking for the right place and then so we had to break up.

She gets a boob job and because of that, they get back together. It was something that happened during cocktails. Jan did this super long talking head on the lawn of the.

Yes, in front of David Wallace's house. Yeah. From David Wallace's house. And in writing that, we kind of discovered how Jan was on the road to self-destruction. Yes. Like that. Crystallized it for us is like, oh, she's taking herself there. Once we got that, this was like a stage in her spiral.

Well, it's so brilliant. I just thought Miller and Steve just once again, their dynamic as as Jan and and Michael.

To me, it's just so good, so good. I could watch them all day. And my favorite episode was when she came back in for the first time. And and he's just looking at her and and Jenny, you're right there. And you're looking down and he's like, what, what? Why?

Privately I privately I. I was put right in the middle of the tour.

Yeah, it could have been just such a normal little dud of a scene, you know, but he walked this line of of of being mean and and trying to be polite and shocked and freaking out about freaking freaking out and making it all real at once.

Yeah. It was so funny to see him do that. I have to ask you, who is responsible for Crede thoughts? I think that was a mike talking head. And then Jason Kessler did it on the blog. He did a blog of Creede thoughts on NBC dot com, I guess.

And he was your writer's assistant, is that right?

Yeah. Yeah. And then he kind of took over the digital media.

So I texted Crede about it this week. I was like, Chris, do you remember Crede thoughts? Your whole blog was like, yeah, yeah, that was fun. I didn't write any of that.

But that went on for a year. That blog that Jason wrote as Criag. Yeah.

OK, so this episode introduces The Cheroot Bucks, which are hilarious. And who came up with that. And also I saved one. I have a Schrute.

Fuck you do. Yeah.

Subframe No I guess I guess I should. Freema it's probably it's like in a scrapbook bin that I haven't gotten to. Well do it.

Is it a large one or a small one, Angela. It's the large one.

OK, and I don't know if you guys remember, I think it's a deleted scene, but Crede tries to flood the the value of the dollar, try to flood the market. So he has to seen where he's photocopying like crazy and he's looking around, make sure no one seeing him. And then he wheels in to Dwight, like Dwight's new office, this whole cart full of thousands of troops.

And he's like, I'm going to flood the market with these babies unless you pay up.

So my memory is they were everywhere on set. We had stacks of them.

I forgot about that scene. Yeah, it didn't make it, but it's really funny. Yeah, that is funny.

I think that Justin Spencer thought up should box.

Oh he's so funny. Not one hundred percent. Yeah he's great.

And he loved it. He loved it. Dwight there was a lot of Dwight stuff over the years that came out of him.

Well Justin did twin absorption we found. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

That brings up an interesting thing to me, Paul, is that I remember over the years there'd be different writers that would just really love a specific character like Mike.

Sure loved to see Angela Martin fall apart. I could always tell when it was one of his scripts.

My character really spiral out. Did you have a character that you love to write for doing everybody?

I think the creed was always but Kevin was was always like fun to just push to the limits.

And so eventually doing one where he didn't know the alphabet and I was going there if I was just I was laughing so hard during all he was doing, Michael, I still sometimes like I'm driving and I think it's like a Michael talking head.

I want to write, you know, it's it's his voice is just so clear and so, yeah, I miss that character for him.

Well, Paul, do you have like a favorite scene or moment from this episode or anything you want to share? Like a favorite moment? It doesn't even have to be from this episode.

But if there was one, I really laughed out loud. I'm a hunter and he was telling Hunter Tell. So I us basically. Yeah, you know what I mean.

It's like, yeah. Now I looked in the script and the second part was not in the script.

I had a feeling, oh good. I'm glad you checked it out because I was I was wondering.

I bet he the first one was the teller. I want to squeeze them. She'll know what it means in there. Yes.

And then I loved when Jan finds out she's fired and she storms into Wallace's room, they have this kind of screaming match and he tells her off. And I loved how strong David was. Like he was just so collected and I felt like, yeah, just really solid character to have because so many people are just kind of scared or inhibited to say the truth. I'm not sure. OK, so then there's this moment after she leaves where Michael standing behind the door frame and I tell her something like it wasn't me and he can't even look.

And he's he is the way quaff is framed. It was he was kind of like the doorframe was right coming down in the middle of his face.

I loved I loved when, you know, Jan is just like letting David Wallace have it and Michael is in that same spot you're talking about. And for one moment, he's like, yeah.

And then David Wallace is like, excuse me.

Like just with a like Michael like, nope, nope. OK, I just know.

Well, we got one question from a fan, Paul and I have to ask. This is from Sarah McGinty and Zoey Wang. They want to know why didn't Karen.

The job at corporate, because you set up that one of the requirements for the job was sales experience of four years, but Ryan, we don't think has worked there for four years and he's never made a sale.

Why did David Wallace choose him? They want to know, did you do this so that you could get back off the set and into the writers room so he could do his writing job?

No, probably upset. It was I think we felt we would get a lot of fun comedy out of putting Ryan as Michael's boss for a while. You know, he was the temp that came in. He's clearly a really good bullshitter. But but it's but incompetent. And I think that's how he got it. I think you say he went to management school for a little.

He got an MBA, right. That is one of the signature how he did that maybe at night. But I mean, the reasoning in the real world, you know, I could have been he just really kind of dazzled David with the NBA and said all the right things. I could see I can see it happening. But the real reason was like, you know, it was it was time for Karen to leave the show and. You know what we were doing with Jim and Pam?

For season four and then and then we thought it would be just a fun dynamic, which I think we were always looking for, these pairings switch people up who hasn't been together in a while, you know.

So we have all your pictures up, though, and you have we don't see what if you were his boss, you know, in your own stat status games and improv or power dynamics, just switching them up. And I loved it.

I just loved it so much. I could really see why Ryan at Corporate would just be it's almost Shakespearean. You know, it's like Michael thinks of himself as the king and this like lowly like peasant just just went right past him, you know, on the food chain. And I love that he was like, give me a coffee. Can help. And then. And then, now, now Ryan just jumped right over him.

And it's going to be at corporate. And just the way he says goodbye to Kelly, he's cold. It's he's cold hearted. But you can see that there's there's going to be some fun.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like we're done. Yeah. Paul, is there anything when you look back and you think to yourself, I wish we had done this scene because I remember there was a card on the writers room wall for years and years and years that never got made.

And it haunts me. And it said double date. And it was going to be a double date with Jim and Pam and Dwight and Angela.

And I always wish we had seen that double date. And I even remember being in the writers room and hearing you guys try to justify why Jim and Pam would agree to go on a double date with Dwight. Angela, how good are my first and how why why would Angela ever attend?

And I think dinner party was sort of that, right? We all did go out on our kind of double, triple date, their quadruple date really with since Dwight Broaddus baby sitter. Were there any cards that you remember that you had to leave on the wall, you had to leave them behind?

I'm absolutely sure there were. Those eight would have been fun. Sometimes it's it's finding the killer joke like we maybe, you know, we should have just been putting on. What is the most hysterical thing that's going to happen when we find that, you know, like we'll do whatever it takes to discipline?

Paul, thank you so much for coming on. Obviously, these are just thrilled to have you. And thanks for having me on. Yeah, well, thanks, Paul. It was really good to see you. And I hope that we can have another get together really soon. I hope I did.

All right, Paul. Take care, guys. Paul. Bye bye.

Well, that was just too much fun. I love it when we have writers on the show and Paul is the writer actor. He brings such a cool perspective, right, Jenna?

Yeah, well, listen, we want to give Paul a shout out here. He has a really funny new project coming out spring of twenty, twenty one. It's going to be on Audible and it's a show called Captain. He said it's like an old time radio show and it's a sci fi, but it's anti sci fi. I love this description. Sci fi, John is like I'm on board. It has Will Forte, John Malkovich, Rainn Wilson, Adam Scott Wyatt, Sinak, Gillian Jacobs, lots of funny folks be looking for it.

Spring twenty twenty one. Captain on Audible Yeah.

He said it's like they're all out in space but there's nothing sci fi happening to them, which I thought was so funny. I, I can't wait. I can't wait. Well listen guys, we will take a break and then when we come back we will start breaking down the job.

You know, over the past few months, a lot of us have had more time to ourselves than normal, and it might not always feel like it, but spending time with yourself can be helpful because it can allow us to check in with how we're doing.

And if you think you may be depressed or anxious, we want you to know you're not alone. And according to the National Institute of Mental Health, more than 10 million Americans are living with mental health conditions.

I know that it can be scary to reach out for the first time and decide that you're going to call someone for help.

No, I think that's really true. I know I have a hard time asking for help. That burden that is lifted off my shoulders when I finally do and when I can start sharing and talking, it just feels so good.

Well, better help has licensed online therapists. They have helped many people manage their mental health. And they're here to help you, too. They have experts in a broad range of areas, including anxiety, depression, grief, trauma and more.

So what you do, you guys, as you fill out a questionnaire and it helps them assess your specific needs and then you'll get matched with your counselor in under 48 hours.

Yeah, and they did a study with Berkely Wellbeing Institute and found that ninety eight percent of people using better help made significant progress and 94 percent of them even preferred better help over face to face therapy. I prefer that. Well, also, I think right now, especially being at home is the safe place to be. Yeah. And you can do this therapy from the safety of your own home. Well, if you're thinking about reaching out, try better how you can get affordable professional help when you want it wherever you are.

Better help is an affordable option. And our listeners get 10 percent off your first month with the discount code office.

Ladies get started today at better HELOC dotcom office. Ladies, talk to a therapist online and get help.

All right, so this episode opens with Michael at Corporate for his interview, which is tomorrow. Yeah, you got the day wrong and now he's got to cover his butt.

Yeah, he's trying to save it and he does a horrible job. Yeah.

And I wanted to point out something while him and David Wallace are talking, I looked at reception, no plants at reception, corporate.

Now you're now you're tracking the plants at corporate reception. What's wrong with me? But at thirty three seconds, there is a really good shot of some dried brown sticks in the back. It's like sticks, big, tall looking sticks. I mean, they're not really alive. Right? This is some kind of decor.

Well, clearly the receptionist at corporate is doing something right. She doesn't have to keep any plants alive. She's just got a jar with sticks.

I like it. Pam could learn something.

We should get into the episode. So Jim arrives to work and John Jim has a new haircut.

He does Meredith things it look sexy. Oh, yeah. And Kevin thinks he could look worse.

And he immediately says you're no longer big to know your big haircut. Well, we got a lot of fan questions about this.

Angela, Samantha Patiño, Kayla. Oh, Katie. Nolder, just con Natalie Payne and many others wrote in to ask, was Jim's haircut a writer choice or was there another reason he got the haircut? It was both. It was both. It was both. It was in the script, but it had to be in the script because John got a haircut.

Well, John was doing a movie with George Clooney and Renee Zellweger called Leatherheads, and it was like it was set in a different time. And so he had shorter hair. But it worked out perfect for the story because I think it's great that Karen's like, you need a haircut, you're going to interview for corporate. And and you did kind of have this shaggy hair, you know? Yeah, I like that. Karen is the girlfriend was like, you got to clean it up.

But there were a few episodes this season. Some of you guys have asked that, that as far as John's hair was sort of transitioning back from that haircut of the movie, that he did wear a wig. Yes.

And we have not talked about that, which is so crazy to me. But yeah, after he got the super short haircut for the movie, he came back to the office and he had to wear a wig for a while where his hair grew out. And then finally for this episode, I think they felt like it had grown out enough that it looked like a more modern day haircut. So they John, is this is John's real hair phone.

Yes. Yes. You guys, I went to the Leatherheads premiere and I met John's family and I could not believe it.

I walked up to the group of them and John was like, Hey, guys, this is my friend Angela.

And they turned around and they were the tallest people. John is the shortest of his brothers guys.

And he's like six three, six three. It's the shortest. I was like, oh, my gosh. It was like it was like we're from two different planets, but they were so lovely and that was so fun to be able to go support him like that.

Yeah. Yeah. That was really cool. When he was shooting that movie, actually we would get excited for each other when we would get these jobs and we'd be like, tell us all about it.

I know I was like George Clooney, come on. No, I wanted to point out something, though, with his talking head.

You know, he says that Karen suggested he get a haircut for his interview.

And Jenna, this is major girlfriend moment. I mean, A, it shows that Jim is actually really listening to Karen.

You know, you're changing your look, especially when you've had the same haircut or same look for years and years. That's a big deal.

And so he took her advice and I thought, oh, wow, their relationships really solid, like I was believing it. I'm like, wow, Jim's all in.

And then I thought it also shows that he he really wants to get the job.

Well, in this episode, there are going to be a ton of misdirects. We do not show our hand for what the end of this is going to be at all. And coming back from beach games, it was like, what is going to be the repercussion of Pam's confession on the beach?

And so to open this episode with Jim and Karen stronger than ever, Pam is like, listen, it went great. It was fine. She has that whole talking head where she's like, I know it only took me three years to summon the courage to tell Jim my feelings. But, you know, I'm glad I did it. And now it's over. We're all moving on. That's how we opened this episode. We're all moving on. Jim has a haircut.

He likes his girlfriend's advice.

I was really I don't even know the word like in or maybe of Pam's talking head about how she was like, I have no regrets.

It needed to be said.

And I said it because I would have been horrified. I would have been so embarrassed. Like, I had this huge, like, emotional speech in front of all of my co-workers, but then you got to show up to work the next day with everyone in the bright fluorescent light.

Oh, yeah. Well, they do tease her a little bit.

They're they're a bunch of deleted scenes. There's a runner and we'll see one later. But you do get made fun of a little bit, but lovingly by everyone.

Yes. Well, next up, Michael is in his office. He calls Dwight in and he explains it's time for me to name my successor. He hands Dwight an envelope. Yes. And inside there is a written note from Michael that says, Dwight, congratulations, a wipe.

Don't screw the pooch. This bring this brings Dickins sobbing, sobbing, sobbing, tears, I listen to the DVD commentary and they sit in the commentary that rain is Dwight went on and on so long. Sobbing They just let him just sob can coppice just let them go and let them go. And and Ken said it went on for so long and Steve started saying, you know what, just forget it. Give me the letter back. I take it back.

Well, we had a fan catch in the scene, which was really delightful. Angela Christina Warez and John Sperry wrote in to say in Michael's office, when he hands Dwight the letter, you can see an outlet on the wall behind Michael and it is upside down what is going on here.

And oh, my God, Angela, it is. It is right around three minutes, 11 seconds by the coat rack behind Michael. It's an upside down electrical outlet, like the little hole part is on the top and then the two lines are underneath it. I know I know what an upside down outlet would look like, but thank you for thank you for walking us through it.

Well, if you want to see one, go to three minutes and 11 seconds. Well, that's a great catch, you guys. No, I will go back and look for it.

Here's something, Angela, of course, we know that that outlet didn't really work, it was just a fake outlet cover, but it did get me wondering. So I went to the website, Family, Handyman, Dotcom, O Lord, and it says that there is actually no right way to install an outlet.

You can install it. Quote, Upside down, you can install it sideways, it will not affect how the outlet works, it actually said, quote, It's up to you. There's no standard electrical outlet orientation. So there's really no such thing as an upside down outlet.

Well, that makes sense. It does make sense, I found it interesting, I feel like my I definitely need to tell my dad about family, handyman, dotcom. Oh, your dad will love it. I also want to say before we move on that I noticed that there are also two light switches in the middle of Michael's wall underneath a giant framed picture. Now, that is odd. Why would you put your light switch is. There, I guess it's because when you walk in the door, he has like glass, so you can't but he has to walk real far into his office to turn on the lights and say, you know what, he never has to do it because Dwight gets there early and sets up his office for him.

Yeah, Michael doesn't even know where those light switches are. He's never had to turn them on. Well, they're right there under the picture. You know what, Angela?

You spot plants. I'm going to be on the lookout for outlets. Well, between the two of us. Look out world. That's right. Well, next up. Oh, great scene between Pam and Karen.

Oh, my gosh. I thought Rasheeda did such an amazing job because she had to react to so many things as Karen. First of all, she's graciously, I think, trying to let Pam off the hook. She's like, you know what? It happens sometimes. We just have those moments. We say things we don't mean. And then Pam was like, oh, no, I meant it. I've thought about it a long time. And Karen, the look that comes over her face, she's like, oh, that's how it is.

Yeah, and then she has her talking head where she's like, Pam is kind of a bitch. Yeah, yeah, I would be ticked off. I would not be happy with Pam. Well, here was my thing as the character of Pam, because in watching it as an audience member, I it's that it was rude. Like Pam is not being great in that scene, but great that scene.

She was flirting with Jim in front of Karen. It's like all bets are off with Pam now. She walked across these coals. She's feeling empowered. And when did she flirt with Jim in front of Karen.

Hi. I like your haircut. I like it. Smile. Come on. Come on. Right out of the gate.

And then later, when he's leaving for corporate, she's like, good luck to oh my gosh, you have such strong feelings.

I didn't know.

I feel like Pam is openly flirting with Jim in front of Karen in this episode. OK, my back story as Pam. It's one of those things where when you finally get your voice, you just say everything, you lose all of your editing for a period of time, right. Because you have to try on this new way of being and you're going to you're going to mess it up. Sometimes she's the pendulum has swung in the other direction and Pam is really living in oh, I'm sorry.

I hold nothing back now. I give give zero F's. I say it all and y'all are going to have to live with it. That's the world Pam is in right now. Yes.

She has an auto corrected to sort of like a happy medium. She's just a real hard one way.

She has. Well, then Karen suggests to Jim that they leave for New York tonight and they should get a hotel room and hang out in the city.

Oh yeah. Karen is like, let's get out of here, because that bitch behind reception is coming for my man and we need to go.

Well, and we actually had a fan catch from the scene. Anna Owen and is Sean Vicent both wrote in to say at four minutes. Forty three seconds. When Karen suggests leaving early, Jim says he has too much paperwork to do and then he signs a document in pencil.

Who does that? Did you notice he signs his name and pencil? I did a good kid. I did not notice. I did not notice. But I sort of just feel like. None of them do any real work. Hannah Settle also has a fan catch for the scene, and it involves you. Oh, what am I doing? At four minutes, thirty three seconds, Angela and Kevin are talking together in the background and she wants to know what are some of the things you guys would talk about during scenes when you were in the deep background?

Because I watched this scene twice, once, so that I could watch Jim sign in pencil and then to so that I could watch you and Brian in the background.

And lady, you know, you and Brian. I know. I know. I know.

I know. I actually I actually chuckled to myself when I saw the scene because, you know, they had a standing there so we would be in the shot. They would often do that. They would put Brian and I had a file cabinet and Oscar could stay at his desk because he was in the line of sight. But they would have to pull Brian out and me out. So we would stand at those cabinets back there. And you guys, we are just shooting the attack.

We're just like, you know, just like, oh, hey, do you guys want to grab dinner? Yeah. What's up?

And Oscar's job was to be our lookout, OK? He didn't sign up for this job. We just made him do it so he would under his breath.

So you guys kind of swing around over camera swinging over and then sometimes like suddenly like snap back into here.

And then sometimes he wouldn't catch it. And then all of a sudden, Brian and I would love it if there was one moment during the run of the show that it was on camera.

He would flick me, you know, he'd like flick my arm, like, stop talking.

That's amazing. We're just, you know, we're just the idiots back there just chatting it up in accounting.

Well, speaking of accounting, we have a very strange scene now where Kevin asked Jim who he thinks is hotter between Karen and Pam. I called this the Kev Perv Alert. Yeah.

Kevin starts listing off all of what he believes to be the various attributes of Karen and Pam and Jim. Jim is like eventually he's like, you know what, I think you should take the rest of the day, try to figure this out and get back to me. Well, at five minutes, 37 seconds, you see Jim kind of put his hand up to his chin like he's considering this. Hmm, right. Kind of thinking about this in the DVD commentary, John said that was his Mike Shaw impression.

Oh, that right in that moment, he was being like, sure, yes, that's really good. He snuck in an impression in the episode. I love that.

So now Pam goes into the break room and you guys, there are more of these scenes where she gets teased, but this one made it in Oscar teases her and everyone kind of laughs about her big speech she made to Jim. And Stanley's like, it's the most I ever saw you speak. I mean, I thought is that Kelly and Kelly is like, now, that was pathetic. Like, that's no, I would never do that. No offense.

And then Meredith is like, well, you know what? Everyone was drunk. No one remembers that. And Creed goes, Oh, I do.

I blogged about it. And now we find out that Creed Bratton has a blog.

Yes. Ryan explains in a talking head that last year Creed asked him how to make a blog. But Ryan just opened up a word document and told him this was a blog. And he said that he did that in order to protect the world from Creed's thoughts. Yeah, because he said even for the Internet, they're pretty scary.

So then you see Crede working on his blog.

And of course, you guys, I had to screengrab it and see what he wrote.

So the top of his blog says W-W creed thoughts dot gov dot ww backslash.

Creed thoughts. And this is what the screen says, Cretans heyo, everyone out there in cyber world, cyber spelled with an S, it's all its old creed.

Bratton coming at you again. So if we get to see his last name, which I love Jinno. Yes, yes.

Yeah. So it says its old creed, Bratton coming at you again here from my perch as a quality assurance manager at Dunder Mifflin paper. Just a few observations on the world around me. What do you guys think is the best kind of car to me? You can't beat motorcycles. They're small and dangerous. I got into a car and that's all you see. And I know I have to say this, but I have to say this to Ryan fictional character, Ryan.

I don't think that's so scary. Like what? Why can't read blog about he that he likes motorcycles?

Well, there obviously is something that we're not seeing, I guess so what we talked to Paul a little bit about this, and he mentioned that Jason Kessler, our writer's assistant, actually did write for a little over a year, the blog of Creede, thoughts for NBC Dotcom. And by the way, if you would like to look for it, you can still find it. It is at blog NBC dot com backslash. Crede thought I looked at it.

There are so many amazing things. He has a whole story on there about how he stayed late one night at the office and he found a squirrel in Michael's safe, that's one of the stories that yes, yes. He says he's so glad that he figured out the combination of Michael safe because it ended up saving a squirrel's life.

He would like to know why Michael put a squirrel in his safe. That's one of his entries.

Creed, did you really put it in there and then you forgot about it? It's possible, possible. But you can check it out, it's still there, but so fun, that's so fun. I didn't know it was still active. That's so fun. Well, now Michael visits the accounting department and he's talking about his new job and how he's already sold his condo. And they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. What's what, what? And I love this scene.

I remembered when we were doing the scene at the end of the scene, we improvised all of that. And when I was watching it, I was remembering that. And then I went to the DVD commentary and Ken Quapaw said, yeah, he was like, the scene didn't really have an ending.

So I just asked the accountants if they would improvise, sort of reacting to Michael. And that's how we went out of the scene.

I think this scene is such a great example of the three of you as an improvisational trio. You guys work so well off of one another, your deliveries are spot on. And I noted it when I watched it. Angela and I went to the script and 10 copies is right. It really just ended with Michael giving the news that he's already sold his condo on eBay. That was the button. But I think this scene is brilliant because of your reaction, and I'm so glad they left it in.

Well, I love that it made it in and I really loved our little accounting pod.

We so clearly knew our characters and how they would react to one another at all times. And we were rarely ever on the same page. But in this moment, all three of us have similar reactions. I say, who gave you that advice? You know, and then Kevin and Oscar all chime in.

And for once, the accounting department is all all on the same page. Well, we had a fan catch in this that I absolutely love from a Dahlia El who said. You guys have mentioned that Phyllis was constantly looking at fences for her home.

Please tell me she caught the fence on her computer at about seven minutes, 20 seconds. I think she's looking at fences on her computer in the background of the scene. Angela, this is amazing. Because you know how you were mentioning that sometimes you would check to see if you were in the background. Yeah. At seven minutes, 10 seconds, Phyllis looks over her shoulder to accounting and I swear that what she's doing is sneaking a look to see where the camera is.

And I think she thinks she's not on camera because right after that, she clicks on a website to look at fence's.

Yes, that's exactly what she was doing. Yes. It was amazing.

You guys, Phyllis looked at fences for like a year. Yeah. Like like for months and months, trying to. And we would you know, she would want our opinion and we'd go over and we'd look at fences with her. Yes, so it was great. So many fences. Well, now, Angela, speaking of scenes that I just absolutely love this next one with Dwight and Angela in the kitchen and Dwight is telling Angela about his new promotion.

He is going to have Michael's job. Oh, it's so good, so good. It's one of these Shakespearian moments between Titan, Atila, very McBeath. Right.

And once again, they're not facing each other, you know, so Amsel doesn't even see his face. And at the end, Angela, you say goodbye. Kelly Kapoor, OK. And that was not in the script, lady.

I know. I know. So so I got to improvise a little bit right there. And my memory is that I improvised that. And when I listen to the DVD commentary, Dave Rogers said, I'm pretty sure Àngel improvised that line. So I just figured she would just be consumed with her own power. And, you know, Dwight has said if he if he takes over, she gets to be in charge of the women. So it's sort of a callback.

And, you know, Kelly Kapoor has been on her list for a long time. Well, I think this is also a callback to product recall. I think that Kelly went to the top of Angela's list after she had to sit through that customer service training. Well, no doubt. No doubt she tried to kiss Dwight at a Christmas party. And then there was Dawley and then product recall. So Anjali's like, see you later. Kelly Kapoor.

Yeah. Who's next on Angie's List. And the list is long waiting. The list of Kevin. Maybe Kevin.

Oh for sure. For sure. And maybe she gets her way in the finale of just saying OK, we're not there yet.

OK, well in this scene Dwight and Angela have this really fun couplet of dialogue.

Dwight says, How would you like to spend the night with a regional manager of Dunder Mifflin Scranton and Angelakos know Dwight. And I don't care if that's how they consolidated power in ancient Rome.

And he's like, I mean me. Well, listen, lady, I think maybe we should take a break. And when we come back, we're going to see what this new power does to Dwight. Oh, well, get ready, get ready for his bed and breakfast in hell. All right. We'll be right back.

All right, we are back and Dwight is taunting Jim about his new position at Hotel Hill and he's doing one of those hand what they called those hand exerciser things.

What are those for? Why am I exercising my hand?

So your grip gets really strong so I can hold heavier weights while I'm lifting weights? Is that what that's for? Or me? What do I need a strong hand for? Maybe. Maybe if you wrestle, you grab someone and hold real tight. I don't know.

I don't I've never understood why I would want my hands to be super muscularly muscularly muscular. I feel like I feel like my husband has one. And I know I know what baking like. He's needing all kinds of dough and bread and doing stuff. And I feel like I feel like he's got real strong hands. Oh, wow, do I need one of those, maybe I can need my dough better maybe than you'd have like super dough needing strength.

Anyway, maybe I should ask for one for Christmas. Dwight is doing this throughout this whole ridiculous I don't even know what it is, a dream or fantasy of his of this insane hotel. Hell. And then Jim just takes him to task so calmly.

He's like, wait, wait, you're the manager.

You don't this is your fantasy. You don't even own it.

And he's like, I go on it with Satan. Yeah. And he's like, I just want to make sure I'm clear that your wildest fantasy. Has you as the co-owner of a bed and breakfast with Satan in hell and but you only make eighty thousand dollars a year.

Oh, yeah. I think we would have told you the best part. Yeah, that's where I make eighty thousand dollars a year now, Jenna.

So here's the thing I, I saw online that fans of the office were like, you know, if you divide eighty thousand by twelve, you get like six six six six point six, six, six, six, seven or something like that.

And I was like, oh my God, the writers do that on purpose.

They must have. They must have. Well, what a brilliant little layer they gave that then we had a lot of people writing about that.

Rebecca Womack, Beth Jones and Paulina Jay and Jake Moss all also noticed that eighty thousand dollars a year is six thousand six hundred and sixty six dollars and sixty six cents. That's pretty cool.

I mean, that's I mean, I like little details like that. I think that's fun.

You know, if that were my salary, I think I would be a little bit weirded out. I don't think I would want to have a salary. I wouldn't want to get checks. I mean, I guess you you take out the taxes and everything. Your check wouldn't really say that. But even still, in my mind, I think it would weird me out because do you know what I had for a very long time? What I had what I had a credit card and, you know, you have your little three digit secret code, my secret code was six six six.

Oh no, no, no. I'd say get that away. I'm not having any of that. I would be on the phone trying to buy something like, let's say I'm ordering a pizza. And they'd be like, what's your credit card number? And they'd be like, and the security code. And I would always be like, it's it's six, six, six. And what would they say their people would be like? What if they would last?

It was over and I'd always have to be like, I know, I know. And I wanted to like, just intentionally get rid of this card so they would issue me a new one on no, that's not my security code anymore. But I imagine that's like layered because it's like on the one hand, that's creepy. It's creepy. And then you have to say these creepy numbers. But then you also now have chit chat when you just want to order your pizza.

Now, that person's hearing it for the first time. So they're like, oh, my God, that's weird. Yeah, I know. How are you going to change it? I'm going to try.

But like, over and over for two years. Two years. Well, then Dwight has a talking head. He says his first order of business will be to demote Jim, which means you will need a new number two. His first choice would be Jack Bauer. Yeah, from twenty four. But he's fictional and unavailable. This was a nod to Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant.

How so, they loved 20 for love, 20 for they were obsessed with it. They both got cameos on twenty four. I went, yes, and I watched them. So Ricky Gervais was in the sixth season, has seen did not make it, but you can find it online and I guess it's on like the DVD box set or something. And he's having this comedic moment in the Oval Office. It's totally random because, you know, 24 is such a drama.

The stakes are so high.

But he's in the background with his longtime girlfriend, Jane Fallon. They got to be in the show. And then later on, Stephen Merchant makes a brief appearance. He doesn't have a speaking role, but he's ACTU worker. He wasn't credited on the episode, but he is there. He's in the background when they cut to see to you. So he made it and he made it.

And he has no lines, but he made it in. But I guess this little reference to Jack Bauer from Dwight was a little nod to Ricky and Steven from the writers. I love that. Well, now something major happens, two major things happen, Jan shows up at the office unannounced and we talked about the scene a little bit with Paul, where Jan and Michael are standing at reception with Pam between them. And Michael is trying so hard to have boundaries.

Oh, I loved it when she walked in and he goes, why are you here?

And Laura is being that very, very scary, sane version of a crazy person. Oh, oh, for sure. Like in the horror movies right before they turn on you. Yeah.

No, it's that moment where you're like, hi, lovely. And then it's like. Yes, like you're wondering, wait, I. Are they a cyborg. Yeah. I made you coffee honey. With the knife. Yes, yes, yes.

Super creepy. She goes into his office and Michael is like, I need all my ladies. Def Con conference room. Def Contin Pam. Immediately, except Meredith, who's an alternate. Yeah, well, so now Pam has to go tell everybody, right.

So she goes up to Karen and she's like, Hey, Michael needs us Jans here. He's freaking out.

And Karen is so passive aggressive in this moment.

She's like, OK, listen, before we leave, would you make know copies of our sales reports? Would you go make some copies? Would you photocopy some stuff for me? Oh, and for my boyfriend. Who am I? I'm about to go to New York with for the night.

We make us some photocopies. That's the subtext. Yeah, I know.

I'm just going to I'm going to take a minute.

I'm going to put you in your place, Miss receptionist. Yeah, she does. It's true.

And then though, Pam, Pam leaning hard into this new like I'm going to say stuff when I want to say it looks right at her and goes, I hope you get the job.

Yeah.

Well, Pam says, I want your ass out of here. I'll make your coffee. I want your ass gone. I'll make you 12 copies. How about that?

You can shove them where the sun don't shine.

OK, so Jan explains to Michael. She gives her plea. She says that after their breakup, she went on vacation.

Another vacation.

Yeah, but she's made some big changes and she really, really misses him and she wants to get back together. Michael runs out of the office and into the conference room, Def Con 20 and all the women in the conference room are like, Michael, no. Do not get back together with her. You have to stay strong. She doesn't make you happy. We are. We're good. We all agree. Michael's like, yes. Yeah, so now he feels empowered, he's going to go in and tell Jan, No, no, we are not getting back together.

But he walks back in his office and Jan has taken off her jacket to reveal. That she has had breast augmentation surgery, she is wearing a white, very tight little knit sweater with a plunging neckline.

Yeah, and she's got a bodacious set of Tatas. She does that are like hello in his eyes.

He he walks and he's like, oh, my gosh, because he's such an adolescent, he cannot take his eyes off her chest and she knows it. This is going to appeal to Michael. Absolutely.

Absolutely. She knew what she was doing. Well, we had some people ask, did Melora get a breast augmentation for this episode? No. No, she didn't.

They designed this crazy bra for her that was filled with like a gazillion little cutlets.

And then they did this like makeup shadowing on her chest to create even more illusion of like swollen cleavage and all of that.

And I do remember poor Melera from this point forward would have to put that on for every episode. Now, I listen to the DVD commentary and Ken Quapaw similar were part of this commentary and they said they had a meeting to discuss her boob job storyline with Greg. So it was Ken, Melora and Greg, and they really had a, like, earnest conversation about what size they would be like. How big would Jan go and how much of a visual joke would this be?

And Melora said this whole storyline was just a lot of fun, that they they just it was just a really fun thing for her character. And just part of that journey that Paul was talking about of Jan really starting this spiral. And she did say that for a long time, people would come up to her and ask if those boobs were hers. Oh, I know, poor Laura, Laura. Oh, my gosh, well, it works.

Michael gets back together with Jan. He says it was not for the boobs, no, it wasn't for the boobs. No, of course not. But he said that would be shallow and this is actually emotionally magnificent. Yeah. So, yeah, he's going to give this relationship another try.

Yeah, well, Jan walks out into the bullpen. Oh, by the way, I can't believe I forgot to bring this up in the very beginning. When she shows up, Michael goes, Janet. And I was like, what? I forgot her name was Janet. It is, yes, when she enters the office and I'm sorry to take us back a minute, he says Hello, Janet, and I'm like Janet, that's my sister's name.

And but is that just Michael doing Michael?

No, no. I looked it up. Her character's name is Janet and her nickname is Jan.

Wow. Yes. Wow.

Mm hmm. There you go. Janet Levinsohn. Gold dropped the gold. She's not with gold anymore.

And so she walks into the bullpen and now everyone sees her new boobs and everyone is having their reactions. You know, Meredith is like waste of money. I find that guys are way more interested in the back of you than the front in her experience. And I thought Kate did such a great job with that talking head, she just throws that line away, she doesn't put too much on it. Yeah, and she did a brilliant job.

And Pam, once again, trying to flirt with Jim is like, oh, my God, they're so big. And he's like, I know. She's just trying to flirt.

She's trying to flirt. She wants to be friends again. She's being friendly. She wants to be friends with benefits. Well, she wants to be more than friends. Yeah.

While everyone is reacting to the boobs, we have another pretty big storyline, which is Dwight is going to start interviewing his new number two. And the only person who signed up was Andy. Yes.

Which leads to this amazing interview scene between Dwight and Andy.

It's like a rapid fire Q&A session. Yes, and it's so great we had a fan question from Seth, Jason Tan and Zoey Wang, how much of the dialogue between Andy and Dwight was scripted when Dwight is interviewing him for assistant to the regional manager?

Well, guys, everything you see in the episode was scripted, but there was so much more in the script. Angela, is that stuff in the deleted scenes? Because it was so funny on the page.

There are great deleted scenes from the scene and apparently there's even more that we're not even getting to see on the DVD.

I listen to the DVD commentary and they said these guys went on and on and on, and then they went past the scripted stuff and they just started improvising. And and Ken Kooper said rain was just throwing the craziest stuff at Ed. And Ed did not miss a beat like like, all right, walk me through an appendectomy. And and and Ed as Andy is like, all right, you sterilize the area, you make an incision.

You know, you just you know, they think they're great deleted scenes on the DVD.

But I think there's even more that we don't get to see.

It was amazing. I absolutely loved it. And Dwight has no choice. This is his only choice. Yeah. Which is so great. Well, we're going to end this part. One of the job with Michael finally leaving for his interview, he is holding Jame's breasts.

Well, they've shut the blinds, but they've only shut them on one side of his office. They left him open on the other side. And so the camera gets this little I used to call it a peep shot. That's not what it's called. Sneaky shot, spy. You sneak spy, spy shot. You got it, you got you got there a spy shot and found it. I got there. Thanks for thanks for sticking with me.

Michael is just cupping them. He's just holding them.

He's, like, so happy, just holding them in his hands. And then he has this crazy talking head where he says two weeks ago he was in the worst relationship of his life and now he's in the best relationship of his life with the same woman. Isn't love a mystery? Angela. I mean, can you get a breast augmentation and heal from it in only two weeks?

Is that enough time? I know I thought she was gone longer to it seemed like to me they hadn't been dating for quite some time because he thought there was a bigger passage of time.

I do, too, because when he walks over to accounting, he's like, I haven't talked to Jan in ages. Right. Well, I know that women's appreciation was two episodes ago. But I thought there was more time in real life that had passed, so that bumped me when he said two weeks, I was like, wait, what? And also, like, I just would think her boobs would still be so sore. I mean, I don't know, should I look it up?

I think this was maybe a continuity error in writing. I think he set a longer passage of time when he went to accounting.

Well, according to plastic surgery dog Youcef, most surgeons agree that full recovery can take an average of six weeks or so, but that many women notice they feel fine after about only one week. So there you go.

But I still think this is a continuity error because of what he said in accounting. I think so, too. Well, Michael goes to Pam and he says, Pam, you gave me great advice. But Jantz was bigger to Jan's advice was bigger. So Michael's going to say his goodbyes. You know, he really believes that he's leaving for the very last time. He believes he's going to go to this interview and get a job at corporate.

And he and Jan are going to live happily ever after he sold his condo. The man is leaving in his mind. He plays exit music and he bids everybody a good night and a good luck. Yes, he plays Natalie Merchant on a tiny little tape recorder. And after he leaves, Dwight slaps his name on the door and says, Who's ready to work?

And guess who's smiling? Oh, she's so happy. This is a big moment for them. This is a big moment. Well, we will end there for this week, next week. We will keep breaking down this episode. Jim, Karen and Michael will all arrive in New York for their interviews. Dwight fully takes over Dunder Mifflin with Pam as his secret assistant to the regional manager. Oh, yes, all next week.

Oh, yeah. It's a good one, guys. Thank you so much for listening in. And thank you, Paul Lieberstein, for being our guest. We will see you next week with job number two. It's a date. Thank you for listening to office ladies Office Ladies is produced by Airball Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey. Our producer is Cody Fisher, our sound engineer is Sam Kiffer, and our associate producer is Ainsley Mubako. Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.

For ad free versions of Office Ladies, go to Stitcher Premium Dotcom for a free one month trial of Stitcher Premium Use Code Officer.