For all you foodies out there unwrapping a McDonnel steak, egg and cheese bagel, look at this steak and the juice running down the side a little bit on the wrapper here. And then a fluffy egg and real cheese folded over the side, looking just so good. Mm hmm. Grilled onions on about a bagel. Two thumbs off from McDonald's steak, egg and cheese bagel for breakfast. Love it. Ba ba ba ba. Participate in McDonald's.

Everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health and wellness podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you. I want to thank you for having stayed with us throughout 2020 for using us as your source of insight, inspiration and support during this really, really tough time. And I want to share with you why I think today's guest is going to help us go even deeper into an understanding of ourselves today. I'm speaking with none other than Kelly Rowland, someone who needs no introduction.

But we'll be talking today about motherhood and feeling powerful and her new incredible music. A musician, actor and TV personality well known for also being a coach on The X Factor this year, Kelly released new hits like Coffee Crazy and Hit Man. And I just saw the music video for that. And it's epic and most exciting of all. Kelly is preparing to welcome her second child very, very soon. Kelly, thank you so much for doing this.

I'm so grateful to finally be talking with you.

I'm so excited to be talking to you. I literally feel like I know you and your beautiful wife.

I can't wait for us to actually meet. We we started connecting and interacting earlier this year. And, you know, for me, obviously for me and my wife, we've been long, long, long term fans.

And to see you just share such positive energy and insight and diving into difficult conversations. I was so drawn to that and attracted to how you were using your platform for that. And I'm so glad we get to share this space together today. Me too.

I'm I'm so excited. And I think I've been waiting for our conversation, so I'm just happy that it's presented itself today for sure.

Yeah, absolutely. And I wanted to stop because we are in the holiday season. And I do think it's always nice to celebrate the optimistic around the things that are around us. And you recently starred in and executive produced a new movie called Merry Little Christmas. And I wanted to ask you, like, what excites you about the holiday season after so many years or what is it what are you doing for the kids to to make it feel special and different?

You know what?

I just remember being a kid, and we didn't have much, you know, growing up. And I remember my mom and I living with my great aunt and, you know, wanting something as simple as they were all in rocking chairs.

So I literally wanted I asked for a red rocking chair like my Aunt Lillian. I literally wrote that to Santa and said that that's what I wanted. So when it came to Christmas, I just remember never really asking for a whole lot.

I knew that we couldn't really do it. And so when I had my son, I went crazy.

I went a little crazy with the president. But I like I realize I've had to scale it back a bit just so he can understand how important giving is. Just as much, you know, as like we love receiving things, but how important giving is. So that was always a really big thing in my household.

And then I started growing up watching all these holiday movies and how like, I just wanted a piece of like all of these movies, like in my life. And so to be able to have those experiences and then be able to, you know, executive produce and star in a Christmas movie is really kind of mind blowing and just like sends me into a hole like, oh, my gosh, this is awesome.

So I don't take any opportunity for granted for sure.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. And yeah, I look forward to watching it. I'm really looking forward to my wife going to watch it together. We've been I'm so glad that it's December now where I feel like I'm finally allowed to start watching festive movies put up, put the music on. And so I'm really looking forward to it. But, you know, obviously everyone's celebrations different this year. And something that you celebrate this year is that you did your baby shower were virtually, I believe, which is obviously different what you've done before.

Tell us how different that was and what that experience was like now living it in this year and how you were able to do it in such a meaningful and beautiful way.

You know what I mean for so many of us? Out here, I think that when we are having these moments where we keep thinking about I know for me, I keep thinking about the fact that we're just in our homes and we have everything we need, you know, but I can't help but to think about other people who don't have everything that they need. So what can I do? I'm not the only person having a baby, you know what I mean?

The only person preparing for it.

So if I know that's the truth, like, what else can I do? And I've been doing work with baby the baby in been an angel, a baby, the baby angel for a couple of years now and just seeing firsthand what they do and what we do together as a community of women and together as a community as well. When we have, of course, the fundraisers and everything, it's necessary, you know what I mean? The work is necessary.

Essentials, essential, basic needs for kids in their families is necessary. No child asked to come into this world and when we get gifted the responsibility of a child, you know, and life happens or circumstances happen, I think that it's our job to care for each other as best as we can. And that's what we do over a baby, the baby. And I just really wanted to do that because I literally had everything from Titan's birth.

So I'm just like, I got a crib, OK, what else can I get? And I'm just like, I'll just get it, you know what I mean? And and I just wanted to do that for someone else. I love that.

I love that. We haven't even been talking for like five minutes. And all you've been talking about is giving and helping unsupported serving. And I love that because it's just your heart and and it just emanates from you. And we were we were speaking briefly when before we started recording. And even when you came on and you said my name and you said it in a way that we knew each other and I felt that I was like, you know, I love that for you.

It feels like gratitude and service and giving just feel like such central pillars. How has that always been the case or was this something you had to work on and develop or where did that come from?

I think it came from family, faith, being in a position where I've not had everything, you know what I mean? And knowing what that felt like, wanting help in some and in sometimes not wanting to say what it is that I needed, you know what I mean?

It is watching my mom, my mom worked really hard and I had I had two moms growing up, you know what I mean?

I had my mom, of course, who God rest her soul. And I watched her work work her butt off. And then I had Bea's mom, Beyonce's mom, Tina, and I watched her work. So I had these two dynamics of of motherhood and women and focus and everything.

And I just feel really blessed by that because they both taught me to give and they taught me to be a cheerful giver.

And I think my faith, of course, above anything, has made me a cheerful, cheerful giver. But I love it.

You know what I mean? It it makes me feel good from the inside. I feel like I feel like we're all here to serve a purpose and to be responsible. And that makes me feel whole. It's it's just it makes me feel whole.

Yeah. That's I feel that's a beautiful it's it's amazing to hear that even though you mentioned how, you know, you started out with nothing and that even despite how your life has changed, it seems like the thing that gives you the greatest joy is still giving and supporting and serving others, which is so beautiful. How was it how was it growing up with two incredible role models? Because it sounds like that was such a special thing to see two women that were so powerful, professionally focused, but also able to inspire you in that way.

What was that experience like?

Well, I mean, to be honest, my relationship with my mom, even as a kid, was really interesting, to say the least.

We all have those stories. But I always watched her give I always watched her give in church, in service.

And I think that that like, she's the one that solidified the faith giving for me.

And then when it came to watching her sacrifice, I don't think I really appreciated her sacrifice till she passed.

So like, I had this moment maybe two or three years after her passing where I said, oh, my gosh, that's why she did that, you know what I mean? And I literally took this moment and I was quiet and I said a prayer and I just told her, thank you for the sacrifice. Now I get it. I know what that took. I know how hard it was. And it was so much forgiveness there. And I didn't realize how much I needed it and it was necessary for life.

So between that and then the dynamic with my mom, it is I call her my mom, and she was just always giving.

And when it came to whether it was tithing in church or like even recently, there's a young woman who's building a charity and she's doing it in a specific way that, you know, we really respect and love.

And she was like, we need to really help this this woman out because she just don't know what she's going to do. It ended and she explains everything. OK, ok, OK. Let's just get it done. You know what I mean? Like, to this day, like I'm grown and I'm still getting these calls like, no, no, no, this needs to happen. And it makes sure you do it today, baby, because she needs to make sure that she's you know what I mean?

It's like it's that. And after all these years, it's still like that and it's still important. And it's even more important now because I have a child and having another child. And you are the first example. Yeah, I love what you said there, that even though you realized it was after your mother passed away of her sacrifice, that you still took that moment to express a prayer and gratitude and thanks to her even then. And I think that's such a beautiful, powerful message for all of us, if anyone is listening or watching, has lost someone this year or in the past.

And obviously it's never easy whether it was this year or any year. And I just want you to take a note from what Kelly just said, is that you can still pray, send love, send gratitude to that person, whether they're still physically present or not. And I think that that is that's such a beautiful way to live, because I've spoken about a couple of times about how I lost one of my greatest spiritual mentors in my life who was like a father to me.

He passed away this year after suffering from stage four brain cancer. So he didn't pass from covid. And it was it was so hard because I couldn't go back for his funeral because because of covid. And so I couldn't actually see him before he passed away. Or I can obviously go to his funeral, which I really wanted to attend. And the only thing that really helped me go through, of course, faith. But the understanding that. Trying to be what he wants me to become and the qualities that he had in his heart, that keeps him alive for me and it makes him feel very real and with me.

And I think that, you know, I think what you said that is really, really powerful and beautiful about even though you noticed it afterwards, you were still able to to connect in that way. So thank you for sharing that. Course. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. No, I really appreciate.

I think it's going to help. I think that's going to help a lot of people this year, especially because everyone's lost something and people have lost someone. And so, you know, I think that's going to be really powerful. I want to switch to talking about your intention by naming your children, because I think it's so beautiful and powerful and obviously sounds Kotite Tanjore, which is like what a powerhouse name. And I wanted to understand, like, how do you see naming differently or like your intention behind how you select names.

And I'm not going to ask you to share any names or anything. I just.

Yeah, just to understand that better with with Titan's name, I kept thinking about wanting to give him strength that I felt like I didn't have. Or strength that I felt like I was like still working on, and here's how the universe works. So my husband named him Titan and I was like, what a great name. He's like, yeah, I think it'll be great. And then my husband's father was named. His middle name was Joel. So tight end, Joel and I kept thinking about, oh, he's the jewel in our crown, all this other kind of stuff.

But it was so interesting because his name actually gave I I. I really I needed to hear his name at the time when I had him, you know what I mean? Just to remind myself, I was built for this.

I was ready for motherhood because I was nervous at first, you know, as you know, we all would be for a period. But I kept hearing his name and his name was just constantly like not just feeding my life, but feeding everything that I was doing in this weird way. I don't think I've ever spoken about this, but it just kept reminding me, you know what I mean? It it was it was, of course, about his name, which I feel like he is so strong.

You had strong, physically strong, just strong period.

But he reminds his space about that everywhere that he goes. It's so interesting. But I felt like intention is really important behind our children's names. And what does it mean? And you know who or if it's somebody that you even admire?

You know, I kept thinking about, well, what am I going to name this baby, you know what I mean?

And wrote down so many different things. And funny enough, Mantid and I was in Vancouver filming and Titan was here. I wrote down one of the names in time, calls me and tells me that he wants to name the baby this name. And it was one of the names that I wrote down.

No, that's amazing.

So I was like, whoa, oh, it was so cool. So he named the baby. I was literally like, this is perfect. I love that. I love that. And that's that's so interesting, though, what you said that because I didn't think about it like that when I was asking the question. And you were saying you hadn't said that before. She said that before. And how actually the way you name your kid gave you strength at a time when you needed it.

And that's so powerful to think of it that way, that we always you I'm not a parent yet. And, you know, my wife and I look forward to when we can be and when when we choose to be. But the idea of you always think you're giving to your children. But as as a mother and as I've heard from many parents, it's like so often the kids are teaching you, I'm honestly constantly a student.

It's so interesting how like you are in this space where you're like, does it matter if you're the parent?

They're constantly teaching you everything. I just feel like they're constantly teaching you everything. And he's made me a better person.

He's made me a better woman. He's made me a better businesswoman. I just feel like he's taught me a lot about love and forgiveness is is amazing and marriage has to, by the way, marriage. Hey, would you like to say hi to Mr. Jay?

Hey, how's it going? So nice to meet you. Maybe not this early. No ice cream necessarily paid for the. I know, but you can have some. Tonight, we'll have some together. Can we say we're putting together time, please?

Okay, okay. But I think you can have a snack.

Go, go, go. But listen, can you do me a favor? Can I have this time? I have like 15 more minutes. OK, thank you, sweetheart. Oh, that was adorable.

So here it is. I love it. I love it. Asking for ice cream at eleven thirty and that's like. That's amazing. I love it. It was also wonderful to see your interaction with him. It's, it's so sweet.

But you were saying he's taught you a lot and marriage and marriage do. Yeah.

I mean just patience. You have no choice but I didn't think I had any patience. No, I'm serious. I was, I was like, this is not the first time. Like, I felt like a like like a real big tension. I was like, this is not going to go well. And my only understanding of figuring things out is just to, like, dismiss them.

Do you know what I mean? Like to not handle it or communicated or talk it out. So communication has been the longest freaking road of my life with everything.

Give us give us an example of something that you think where where you've seen that shift, where someone could go, oh, I see that in myself, too, because I think there's a lot of people nodding right now back at home when they see me watching, I feel that like, you know, so many reminders.

Tell us about a shift that you experience.

If you can get, of course, marriage.

But marriage, first of all, the the oh, gosh, it was just a really big misunderstanding.

And between my husband and I, and I'll never forget not saying.

Exactly that I was wrong. You know what I mean?

Because we I think that sometimes like. We sometimes hate to be the one that is inflicting pain or inflicting the misunderstanding, and you don't you don't mean to do it, of course.

But I think that life just books experience relationships.

They all teach you like you know, you try to navigate your way through people as much as you can. And I think that understanding comes with understanding yourself and understanding others as well. But I do think that you have to have this level of understanding for yourself, like, oh, I know that I do. That is probably wrong. But when you see it, you have to, like, be able to call it out. And so when I was able to call it out and I said what it was, it was like he kind of looked at me like, did you just say just, you know what I mean?

And I was I'll say that I'm wrong. But this time I was like it was one that I didn't like about myself. It's always like that one thing.

You're like, oh, I wore that. And that's really ugly. Like, I don't like that. And because you see it like it is really ugly, you don't like it and it just can't possibly exist, you know. But yes, it can.

So yeah, it was a matter of saying that, calling it out and just moving forward and apologizing and having humiliation and just saying it's OK.

It's just it's a part of it. And, you know, moving on, that's so interesting.

It's it's like wearing a bad outfit and never wanting anyone to see that picture ever again and, you know, trying to hide it and like facing it, but even more deeper. But that's so interesting what you said, that we're scared to address things when we really don't like that about ourselves. And and often it comes out when it's also we're scared because it almost feels like it's a weakness, not a strength. Like it feels like a weakness to be like I'm wrong.

I have this part of me that I want to work on when actually that is strength. Right. Like that is courage. We would we would encourage children to be honest with us. We would encourage children to tell us when they feel uncomfortable with something. But but, yeah, we get scared of that because we see it as a weakness. And I think, you know, I think that that's a really powerful lesson that you're sharing with us all, is that be in our relationships and this little practical activity for everyone who's listening right now, this week, observe your relationship with your partner, your parent, your child, whoever it is you want, and do practice what Kellie's you shared with us.

Look at something where you're scared of admitting that you're wrong and ask yourself, is it because it's something you don't like about yourself and then reframe that as a strength to realize that it's not a weakness. It's actually a strength to address that, because that's a really powerful takeaway. I think me and my wife said that.

I get said, but it's hard. Yeah, it's hard. And and the truth is, is like you may not see it at first and sometimes it takes a while or sometimes it takes a couple of years. And, you know, when you do finally see it, just call it out.

And it has it has no, no, no space and it has no space in a negative way in any part of your life, because if it shows up in one place, it's going to show up everywhere else and some sort of way.

And I just I didn't wanted to do that. I was like, oh, gosh, I don't want it to do that. Yeah.

Yeah, that's you're right. We have to be patient with ourselves. And hopefully we've surrounded himself with people that are patient with us, too, because that's needed sometimes. I know there's plenty of things that I've got wrong in my relationship and Robbie's been super patient with me about. And and, you know, you need that. You need someone who's patient with you and allows you to figure it out while you're figuring it out. And I think sometimes we make the mistake of trying to fix the other person and change them.

And it's almost like you just need to be patient while someone heals themselves. You know, it's like, yeah, you can't always be the one to, like, engineer it perfectly for them. They sometimes they just need to feel that you have patience and you're there for them.

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The show tackles on most personal and health and wellness questions. No matter how thorny, complicated or embarrassing. Listen to checking in the first episode on stress and how to reduce it, as well as new episodes every Monday. Subscribe to checking in on Apple podcast Spotify or wherever you like to listen. Tell me about one of the things that you mentioned with tides in choosing, you know, the name, it's like so I remember I'm an older brother to my younger sister.

My younger sister is about four and a half years old. I remember holding her since the moment she was born and like carrying her around. And she was like my you know, she was like my my favorite person in the world. She still is. But the definitely when when we were kids, I have really good memories of being just old enough to to really interact with this. And I remember my parents, the way they prepared me was my mom would say to me, she was like, pray for a little friend.

That's going to come into the world like pray every day. And so every day for like since they knew she was already pregnant, I was praying for, you know, a little a little friend. You ended up having to be my sister. How have you prepared Titan for what's to come? Like, you know, how does that work? Yeah. How does that work?

He's really preparing me. He's really preparing me. Because, first of all, I keep thinking about the fact that I love him so much.

And for it's been, what, six? Yeah, he's six years old. And for this long, it's taken me to get pregnant because I was like, do I have the capacity? You know, for two, I was like a little nervous about that. And do I have the patience for two?

And this one day it was like last year I saw the way me and my husband were just doting over time. And it was just so much. I was like, this is just too much. This is too much. I think it's time to share some space, you know what I mean?

So, you know, that's when we started, like having the initial conversations about having another one and tired and did a video this one day before school.

And he goes, I want to baby brother, I want a baby sister.

And I said, well, which one do you want? So you know what I mean.

He says, I want a baby sister. I want a baby brother. I said, Well, I'm glad that you're open to both because we don't know what's going to happen, you know what I mean?

Whatever.

Oh, anyways, as soon as we found out we were pregnant, we waited a while till I had like a little bump and we finally sat him down and told him.

And his reaction, which I do want to share on Instagram, because it's really sweet.

He was so delighted to share his space and excited because this is what got me and it just broke me.

He goes, I won't be lonely anymore.

He felt like when he goes like he's he's still in the bedroom.

I was still sleeping with us because he likes the connection. And so he puts his hand like right underneath my arm here or behind my back because he just likes touch, you know what I mean? And I realize, like, we are a very affectionate family. Like we hug and we snuggle and we kiss and we this and we like that's just who we are.

And he's he all of his friends have siblings except for maybe two, but he always watches them.

And then when one of the kids leaves their siblings, he goes and like eases his way in there. So like one of his friends, Berkeley, Berkeley has a baby brother and he's like, hi, I live in HotLink Escort's Lynn.

And all around the house, he does the same thing with another friend, Celine, and her baby sister Caia. They're all like he wants to take them all around and show them stuff. And I was like this time. So yeah, I love that.

That's awesome. That's that's so good. It's it's nice. It's nice to hear that because I know what it was like for me. So I'm excited for him and yeah, I'm excited for him. And it's going to be a fun journey. I definitely my youngest is is like still my best friend. And it's it's such a it's such a special bond when you do feel that excitement around sharing your space with another being and seeing someone grow up and and almost always feeling somewhat like a parent to them too, in that sense.

And it's it's a fun experience. So we're going to come to you for for for tips on parenting and everything when we get around to it.

OK, I wanted to talk a bit about the amount of conversation you've been leading and sharing in mental health and community, because I think the. It's something that's so integral to people's daily lives and now people are becoming a bit more open and communities are starting to destigmatize the conversation and communities that have struggled with it in the past, I know that from my own experience, the South Asian communities massively struggled with it and being open and honest about it. And I've heard the same about the black community, too.

And so, you know, it's interesting when when you started to share messages, I was wondering what tools have you gained from therapy over the years that you feel helped you this year? Were there specific practices or insights, your ideas that you really felt were useful this year or any challenging year, even if it's not this year, if there have been any other challenging years in your life where you found that, you know is I feel like.

Someone told me before, like, don't wait to go to therapy when there's something wrong. Just go. And I would go when there was something wrong.

And so when by the time I got there, I was just this think of a ball of yarn, you know what I mean? Just like just but it was a big ball of yarn.

So you have to, like, undo all of this stuff from so many years. And I think that people think that if you go in one time, even five times, that everything's going to be OK.

That's not the way it goes, because I feel like you have to unravel all of this stuff to whatever is at the base, you know, the nucleus of whatever that trauma or void or whatever that is. And it takes a while and. Well, it's been a couple of things in my life where I just was wondering why I was going through this same thing over and over and over and over again.

And so I finally got a chance to talk to someone who actually became I feel like he's a soul mate, almost my friend Joe Bolduc, and he has this beautiful Facebook space. Cosby speak to understand or speaking to understand.

And he we would talk so openly to where it's almost like what I was saying was he would finish my sentence and I was like, oh my God, I'm so happy.

I finally have somebody who is like understanding what I'm saying.

And and I don't feel.

I don't feel I'm going to use the word crazy. I don't feel crazy. I don't feel misunderstood. I feel like I'm being heard. And for me, that's what therapy is. I feel like I'm being hurt. I feel like I'm communicating everything out. I feel like I'm getting everything out. So by the time I leave, I've literally had a moment where I've left a therapy session and physically felt like I could have skipped a step, you know what I mean?

Because I felt lighter. And I didn't realize in that space or time how much unforgiveness I was holding onto.

And it was for a lot of people.

And then I was realizing how self-critical I was and how all of that was connected.

And it was just crazy, you know what I mean, when you start to figure everything out.

And so I'm figuring it all out and noticing how things are connected and how one has to cancel out the other if you don't get past this one and this will keep you stuck. And I was like, oh, oh, you know what I mean?

So it's so much to learn. And then when I before I had time and I was like, well, I want to get all this stuff out before I have children, how is that possible?

Because every day is good. Every day you're going to go through something new and something else is going to come up.

And it's just something else to to get past, you know? And I think that there's nothing wrong with that because that's just what life is. And that's the beauty of it, although it is a challenge, but it's still the beauty of it because you should be able at the end of the day, to give yourself some credit. And I and we are truly our greatest competitors, our greatest critique, and I did that for a long time, and sometimes it still surfaces and I still do that to myself and it just becomes too toxic.

And then you realize how layered that is.

Well, what do you think is the greatest challenge you've overcome personally, internally or externally? If you had to be like this is the challenge that made me realize how strong I was and how critical I didn't want to be of myself and where I realized that, you know, this was all just layers and conditioning. But actually underneath all of that, there was this powerful, strong, important being that cared and that was loving. What do you what would you say that was?

What do you think that was?

So many, um. I know it's always hard to pick one.

I know, um, I think, gosh, the definitely the self-critical part, the self-critical part and constantly talking myself out of stuff.

Oh, interesting. Yeah. Talking myself subconsciously to like I talked myself out of stuff and that what I realized was all like stuff in the past.

And when I was able to talk about it, it was like, this is why, you know.

And I remember. What I did. What do you call the tapping sessions?

Yeah, tapping, so I did tapping and the more I was doing this tapping, but I thought it didn't work, but it came out one day and I literally had a space where I smelled, saw and felt the space that I was in when the trauma was planted.

Wow. Yeah. So and I was in it.

I was in a session and I'll never forget I remembered what that space was and it was going in, although I'm sure a lot of people will think this this is sounds crazy, but it's not because your body holds that kind of stuff and it remembers it. There's this book that I still have to read called The Body Keeps the Score, I believe.

And the the body kept score for sure for 30 plus years. And I had to get past that. For sure, yeah. Which, by the way, makes you self-conscious in being a parent because you're like, oh my God, I can't say that to him like this, because if I do, what if you know what I mean?

I, I being a parent was a good thing and a bad thing for me because I'm just thinking too much, you know what I mean? My husband is like no babies just to now just say, no, it's OK, just say no and then move on. And I'm like, yeah, but I don't want to say no to this because what if he thinks that Ed, Ed, Ed, Ed, like no essay is just chill.

So is that. Yeah it's. And that's hard. Like that's hard because you're right that the body does keep a score and we do hold on to these impressions in our mind and our subconscious and and as you mentioned, trauma as well and trauma also. I think people misunderstand that. They feel trauma means something very physical or something that's very externally abusive, which it can be.

But sometimes trauma can come from just how someone perceives something like it may not actually we may not feel it to be trauma, but because it it had a deeper resonance with that person and they interpreted it to be traumatic or tragic, they could actually hold onto it for a lot longer. So you are right that being conscious with your children, etc. is powerful. But you're also right that there's the other side where there's this book called A. Fragility. And it's all about how sometimes when you are overly weight, what is it?

And deep fragility. I think it's of checking in now as well. I'm just checking to make sure that I got it right because I'm like this.

I need to read. Yeah. Antifragile. Yeah, antifragile. Sorry. And it's a term called Antifragile and it's the understanding of like do you it's like that balance between and it's not like tough love void's. It's not like that. It's the balance between being caring and conscious, but then recognizing that everyone has their own experience as well, that that they need to grow from worries. Sometimes if you try and master someone's experience too perfectly, they actually just become fragile.

Yes. You know, it's because it's like they they've never experienced any sort of your muscles only get resilient when they get stressed and pressurised and pushed a bit.

So you sound like Tim. My husband says the same thing. He's like, you know, just he has to go through that or he has to hear that or he you know what I mean? It's always I'm trying to sometimes save him from something. And Tim is like, no, he has to go through.

I think the combination is good. I think I think I think the middle ground is good. I think it will be the same with my relationship. My wife will be like you. That's that's definitely how she sees it. And I think I'm going to be like your husband like that. But I think the combination is good because I think we do need a bit of both. I think all of us would say, oh, we we wish we were saved from this or, you know, taking care of this in our lives.

And I think all of us will say, oh, I wish I got to, like, try this or, you know, we're always going to have that. So but I'm happy.

I will say, like, a lot of people will have regrets for certain things.

And that's like maybe one thing that I have like a regret over, but everything else more than me and made me into the woman that I am today that I'm very proud to be. And I still feel like I'm a student.

Like I said about being in motherhood and marriage, I still feel like a student. I still feel like I'm learning. And I'm grateful to have people around to help me to navigate my way through that. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. No, I definitely had that. I think I think ultimately all of us have to find that narrative that what we've been through because it is just a perception change. But it's when you find that narrative, when you can really look back at your life and be like, I know exactly why I went through that, and I know exactly why that pain came into my life. And I know and as soon as you do that, you start to retell your story to yourself in a different way.

It is so beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah, it's so beautiful. And I've seen some people who've gone through some really horrific things do that, you know, and and when I've seen them do it, it's given me more confidence that if they can do it in the crazy lives that they've had in this stuff they've been through, which is much worse than mine, then then that makes sense.

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There's a lot of goodness in that recreating our own narrative and story and and taking apart our lives and trying to find meaning in it. And one thing I heard you say is that you formed a Chieko system, which I loved, like, which I think is a big part of this, because I think it's hard to have I think it's hard to reframe your story without having a Chieko system and having a group of powerful friends and people around you. Tell us a bit about how you came to that understanding and started seeing it as that as creating this supportive ecosystem of of other women and just also other people.

I mean, Masche Eco-Systems started when to start, I mean, at.

Ten, you know what I mean? When I first started being around the first little versions of Destiny's Child, you know what I mean? And it was understanding.

Girls at that time, girls at that time and growing up in space and boundaries and advice and love, being able to loyalty, trust, being able to give it is as well as receive it, can I receive it?

And you know what I mean. It was so much to learn, but I think that.

It's the greatest blessing of my life because my system still is is quite intimate, but it grows, you know, every now and then I literally will look up at God like, please, this is it.

I don't I don't want no, my friends like this is already enough.

But you'll meet someone and you realize that sometimes they need a Chieko system.

So it's been times where that's happened and someone will come in and they'll learn about, you know, the how important we need each other as women and I feel like I have the best Chieko system in the world.

I really, really do.

I have like all the the elements that I need that fill me in.

I'm so grateful for and so grateful to have. So I love my Chieko.

I love what I saw. Tell us some of the if someone's listening or watching right now they're like, I love that idea. I need to go build my Chieko system. Tell us some of them like an unwritten rules or principles or like ideas behind developing ones. If someone's listening going you know I really want to do that. What are some of the rules that they can follow? Some of the ideas that that helped you kind of figure out, like what you just said is so awesome.

Like, Oh, actually, I realize I may not want more people, but this person needs someone. So what were some of those ideas that helped build that?

I started going off of your gut in your heart for sure.

I'd also say not judging each others so harshly.

I find that sometimes as women, we are most hard on each other because I think subconsciously we're looking at another woman and seeing ourselves or being competitive by accident, because I think that's just the way society has done for so long and it's been a part of a control as well.

So we have to start undoing that because sometimes. The relationship is bigger than you, if that makes any sense. It's meant to be it's meant to be like really you guys learn so much from each other, you know what I mean?

And is necessary.

So I think that not judging each other so harshly in it are like dismissing like once. I mean, there are some ground rules.

We all know that, but not dismissing immediately to where it's just like this person can never win. Yeah. You know, and that's really harsh because I've done it before. I'm guilty of it for sure. And I have just like let someone go. And then then when I needed them, I called them back. And that's not cool either. So I feel like it should be a give and take in the relationship. And sometimes they're going to be moments in any relationship where that other person may need you at that time more than you need them.

And you find the balance of of that. And sometimes you may need them more than they need you. You find the balance and you have some of those relationships where it doesn't take a lot like I have a girlfriend in Houston. It doesn't we don't even have to speak every day. We probably speak every couple of weeks or every month or every six months or, oh, my God, I can't believe like a year girl by we pick up exactly where we left off, you know what I mean?

But she's a person that I constantly want to hear from and laugh with. And we have the best time. And I just feel like those are necessary, too.

So, you know, is just about being respectful and being kind or is the basis speaking about being dismissive and judging harshly, you spoke up. I remember you said this and I remember sharing it, too, from you. You spoke up about like cancer culture and against cancer culture because you strongly believed in this idea of not judging people harshly and not just dismissing them. And it wasn't that you were saying to keep people accountable or I remember you explaining like you value accountability and you value conversation, but not cancer culture.

Can you explain that to us? Because I think I agreed with you so strongly on that and I thought you explained it really well. And obviously, people still find ways to make it not make sense. But give us I want you to have an opportunity to really explain that so that people can be like I identify with. I understand what what that means. Yeah, well, I mean, for me, when I was talking about cancer culture, there were elements of it that I didn't understand too, like, you know, being completely transparent.

So I respect when people come onto my page or MySpace is I say MySpace and are able to articulate intelligently what they want to say to correct me.

I don't mind being corrected, of course, at all. But it's a way to say it to where we're trying to understand each other, not trying to bash each other because anybody got confident like life is too short is just ridiculous. So when there were a couple of people who were so beautifully and articulately like saying, Kelly, this is this is the difference. And I was like, OK, I got it. And I understand, like, people should be held accountable of their actions.

But when we start to see judgment in there and we can't look at ourselves the rest of the way like it's a problem, to me, it's a it's a problem because I think that we've all seen ourselves in a way where we have this humiliation, you know what I mean?

Like and what does that feel like? You know what I mean? Like to stand in humiliation is a really tough place to be.

And is not to say that they're right, not to say that we're right. Not to say that they're just so wrong. Not to say that we're so wrong.

It's just not judging. You know what I mean? It's just not judging. Just making sure the judgment isn't caught in between that because I feel like I'm human, I mess up all the time and I'm not perfect and I am not going to get it right every single time. And there'll be something that you'll just like fine about me where you like. I don't like that.

And do you write me off? I never you know what? I may never be, you know, brought up or hurt or whatever again, like, you know what I mean? Should I stop talking to you? How do I help you get out of it?

You know, even and some people will completely disagree with me when I say this, but I feel like, you know, when you when you do live under a microscope for so long, you instead of doing this so much, I always feel like how would I feel like to be on the other side of that?

And I just I don't like it, I don't I don't like it, and I feel like we can't do that to each other. But I know what the root of that is. I know what the root of that is. And I know that the root of it is the self awareness. And, you know, we judge ourselves harshly. We judge ourselves so harshly. We don't mean to, but somewhere in life or somewhere there, you know what I mean?

And growing up in in our journey, our own journey, somebody did that to us. And how do we undo that? I don't think that we make somebody else feel like garbage because they're wrapped up in their trauma and they can't find their way out of it. I have so much it makes me want to cry. I have so much compassion when it comes to that. And it's is necessary. Kindness is necessary. You know what I mean?

I really want that tattoo or just on my forehead somewhere. Just I just want to always remind people that kindness is necessary. We need it.

And especially now when we saw a country divided, greatly divided.

And even though someone has different beliefs or ideas of what things should look like, you know, they have their right or whatever of what it looks like, I don't necessarily agree, but I'm not going to hate you for.

I just hear. That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that you reminded me of I've read this today, I want to share it. It's by a writer named Russell Barkley and he said the children who need love the most will always ask for it in the most unloving ways. Hmm.

And Russell Barkley said that you are really again, the children who need love the most will always ask for it in the most unloving ways because you don't know how.

Yeah.

If it was never there, how how do you ask for it.

How do you receive it. How do you give it. Like is no rules on it. Yeah, exactly, and so and that's and that's what you just said, that's that's it like it's. We that's why kindness, as you said, kindness is necessary because it's needed both ways to both the person we think that's doing the hating and the person receiving it, too. It's it's such an important lesson.

Let's let's let's talk about some of the amazing music you put out this year.

I've been I've been watching your videos, too, and they are like I just saw the hit man one like, you know, just literally just before we did this. And I was just like such a great video. I want to hear for someone who's made music for so long, like, how has your purpose and then secondary your creative process behind music transformed because there's very few people on the planet that have that have made music for as long as you have.

And there's something to be said for that. Like, you know, it's just it's phenomenal to think of your full journey and and to think of that whole growth phase. I want to hear how you're processing, how your purposes has grown behind the scenes. Hmm, I remember. I mean, I just came into the is she just loving music, period. But. I'd say like the process. The past what since 2011, I'd say, has been, what do I like, what do I want to do?

What I like really like makes me excited and fulfills me in this.

But really when once again, that Titan once again I didn't because I wanted him to see me be authentic.

And I felt like there were times in my life where, like I was kind of like maybe folding or bending sometimes according to the industry and where it was and what was popular and this and that.

And I just finally got to a place where I was like, I would do whatever I want to do.

And I did. And when I started to do that, I notice things happened differently. And of course, like places in between there, I would doubt myself, but then it would always do something really cool or great, or somebody would be like, yo, this is the best such and such you've ever made.

Or, you know, it would have all these like no one's in different countries or whatever. Like I was like, oh, OK, good, this is working OK.

And, you know, it was it was really that when before the process was kind of calculated in my head or I was so calculated as much as I was like so much thinking about, well, what do you think?

What do you think? What do you think? What do you think? And. It was what do you think? So I like what I think, I like what I have to say.

Yeah, that's I love I love how Taijuan has been like the the theme of of each of these revelations because it's right. Yeah. You want you want him to see his mother being herself so that he feels permission to be himself. And you're so right that, you know all of us in in so many different ways and we don't have to be in the public eye to not be ourselves. So many of us in our own lives have played so many roles where we haven't been ourselves.

Yeah, let me tell you by social media that, you know, I, I as much as I love it, I'm watching like we've we've all heard the conversation is no it's no reason even get into it.

Like, guess I just want people to be their most beautiful, authentic selves. Like I have fun with filters, but you're not gonna see me with, you know what I mean. Like, let's see.

You want to see you want to hear you like, you know.

Yeah. And yeah. And I think it's scary because we you're so right. It's scary because we don't see it a lot. Yeah. And therefore you don't see it being liked and then you go, oh OK. So if I do that then I won't be liked either. And so it's kind of like this vicious cycle that it keeps going round and round because we don't see it around us. So we don't see it. And then, you know, it just keeps just keeps escalating.

Yeah. And amplifying it. So, yeah, I think that's a that's another powerful way of of hoping that that's how your music changed. How did how do you think your music has changed from the perspective of.

It's I guess that the purpose element of that impact behind how you want it to make people feel is, is that also this is feeling for me, like I just remember, like the first times of me listening to music, how it made me feel like in when having a good time with my friends, when we could have, like, you know, get togethers and stuff like that, like what is this music making me feel like, you know, like I remember being at a party two years ago and it was, oh my God, it was such a good night.

And I'd heard of coffee spin.

And so he was spinning. And I'm on the dance floor and my eyes were closed for at least five minutes.

And I was on my second glass of champagne, but it was more so like I was just lost in the music and it felt so good.

I opened my eyes back up and it was everybody on the dance floor, you know what I mean?

And so when I opened my eyes, it was so funny because someone came up to me, they were like, yo, you made it look like it was like magic out here.

I had to come in and I was like, that's dope. Like, because I feel like, you know, music is that infectious.

And I was like, I want that. I want I want it to where it feels like that.

And so the moment I heard Hit Man specifically the the the the track, I was just like I was moved.

I was like, oh my God. Like I just got so excited. And then the songwriter Sam Doo started like just killing this melody. And I was like, oh my God. And it just kept feeling better and better. And it just became this cycle just of like, goodness, good feeling and vibrations.

And I just couldn't help myself. I was like, let me.

And I just it just started bouncing off the walls. You can feel it. And I wanted that. And I'm so happy that I got that and I got that with every song off the record this time. And I'm very proud of that.

Yeah, I love that. And you can you can feel that energy on the track when someone's in love with what they're creating. And then that way everyone else feels it too. And so I love that you're doing that and I love that that's there. You know, not that you've always done it, but that I love that you're even more intentionally and consciously doing it now and inspired to see where it goes. So we end every interview, Kelly, with a final five, which is a fast five.

So the answers have to be one word or one sentence maximum.

OK, you know, I'm long winded, Jay, but OK, let's go.

I will probably ruin this and ask you to give longer answers, because that's what I do when I when I fall in love with an answer someone gets. So here are your final five.

So what is something you learned about yourself this year that you didn't know before?

I'd say, oh, I'm very, very smart. I know. I so I love it. What what is your source for feeling powerful and abundant? My faith and family. OK, third question.

What's one thing that you are really sure about, but that sometimes people disagree with you?

I'm really sure about what people disagree with me on me.

If you can make one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

Oh, that's a good question. OK. To lead with kindness. Love that, beautiful. I look forward to that being a real long and fifth and final question, what's your what's your pray, your hope for everyone in twenty twenty one?

Oh, my hope. A prayer for everyone in twenty twenty one would be to have joy somewhere in their lives because we all need it. Thank you, Kelly. Absolutely beautiful. You're amazing, and I'm so grateful to have shared this time and space with you.

I you know, I followed you for four years, but to feel your energy through a screen like your energy is so genuine and so real that you can feel it through a screen.

And spending this time with you has been so wonderful. I've been laughing and smiling the whole time we've been talking and we've talked about some really deep and meaningful things. And we've talked about, you know, some profound topics. And like I've just been dreaming this whole time, thanks to you. So I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to do this. And I want to ask you, as I always ask, is there anything that's on your mind right now that you feel like you have to share this or I'm thinking about something that I didn't say?

If there is, then please share it.

I literally feel like we touched on so many different things, especially now. But like when you said what something I want people to have in 2021, I feel like we had so many things taken away from us in 2020.

And, you know, it's so funny because we went into 2020 like this is perfect vision and this and this and that. And then it's like, wait a minute. Like we feel like the rug was, like, snatched right from underneath us.

And it's like, you know, so much has happened. So much has happened.

And I just really pray, my hope and my prayers for people to like really like on all the places that we felt like even more lost on as something was taken away from us on in 20/20 like that, it's restored with joy, like it's restored with joy and whatever kind of way it could possibly be.

I feel like we all deserve some sort of joy.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much, everyone. I hope you enjoyed listening to this episode. Please share your favorite parts on Instagram and tag me and Kelly Ann, because I love seeing what resonated with you, what connected with you. And we'll be back again next week. But I want to say a big, big thank you to Kelly. Go and check out all the latest music and the movie, which I can't wait to watch with Robbie.

Merry Little Christmas. And Kelly, I look forward to meeting you. I look forward to meeting husband, and I'm eagerly awaiting that moment.

So but thank you from the bottom of my heart. And I hope you have an amazing holiday season. And I look forward to seeing you in twenty, twenty one. You as well. Thank you so much. And tell your wife I know how to drink water because of her. I will tell her that. I will tell her that she's she'll be really excited to know that you saw that video. So I'll tell her that.

This podcast was produced by Dust Light Productions, our executive producer from Dust lt is Michelle Yousef. Our senior producer is Julianna Bradley. Our associate producer is Jacqueline Castillo. Valentino Rivera is our engineer. Our music is from Blue Dot Sessions and special thanks to Rachel Garcia, the dust like development and operations coordinator. We begin today is meditation with a few sipping exercises to remind us a little treat can go a long way.

So pick up your McCarthyist coffees, close your eyes and deep sip in.

And deep satisfaction out, I take a treat retreat at McDonald's right now, give him a coffee, iced coffee and any size and any flavor for just 99 cents until 11:00 a.m., price of participation may vary.