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[00:00:01]

See 13 originals. This is a documentary series about Traci Lords who entered the porn industry at age 15 and left at age 18. There are some who view this as the story of a young girl who has taken advantage of by a brutal industry. There are others who view this as the story of a smart and resourceful young woman who, armed with a legitimate I.D., nearly took down that industry as well as the people in it. There are still others who view this as the story of the unlikely defenders icons.

[00:00:31]

All views will be discussed. These are real life events. These are real people being interviewed. This podcast contains adult themes and graphic language. Listener discretion is advised. Previously on Once Upon a Time in the Valley of Lords, we heard the Traci Lords story as told by Traci Lords, a modern day version of Little Red Riding Hood. This Red Riding Hood is the product of a broken home and a violent alcoholic father, the first in a long series of big bad wolves she'll face in her early years.

[00:01:12]

She suffered sexual abuse, most damagingly at the hands of her mother's boyfriend. Another big bad. Well, who is her? Andre, into the world of pornography at the age of 15. He was not my father, but I trusted him as a father.

[00:01:27]

She thrived there in the den of big bad wolves. Only she's dying on the inside is drug addicted and suicidal. But just after her 18th birthday, through a combination of good fortune, moral fortitude and a well-timed FBI sting operation, she escapes. I had a second chance. A new lease on life.

[00:01:49]

And I decided I wanted to do better words to warm the cockles of the coldest heart, except not so fast, because the big bad wolves have their own version of the story to tell. And it's so different from Red Riding hoods. It's almost a different story altogether.

[00:02:21]

I am Lilianna like, and this is Once Upon a Time in the Valley featuring Ashley West, part two Little Red Riding Hoods, revenge as told by the adult industry. How old were you when you got into the business? Was it a year ago? A year ago I was 21. What brought into it ad or somebody? Tell you what? I thought a nerd modeling and then I got into film. Okay.

[00:02:57]

Before we start the episode, give you this, Tracy, the adult industry's Tracy Ashley and I want to properly introduce ourselves as we require a bit of explanation.

[00:03:07]

Well, not me. I'm clear cut. What you see is what you get. Pretty much. I write books and I write for magazines, mostly Vanity Fair. Ashley, on the other hand, is an altogether more mysterious, complicated and intriguing case. By day, he's a square John citizen. He has a mortgage, a dog and a no joke job in a straight world, one that requires him to head down to Wall Street each morning in a suit and tie.

[00:03:33]

And then there's that classy British accent of his. His respectability is, in short, bullet proof. By night, however, he something entirely different and that something is dark and louche and low down. His parents very own Studs Terkel has been interviewing adult performers, writers, directors and producers since the 90s. No one knows more about this world than Ashley does. He hosts a podcast devoted to the golden age of pornography called The Rialto Report and was a consultant on all three seasons of HBO is the Deuce.

[00:04:06]

He's gone to a cervix inspection party with any Sprinkel to a different cervix inspection party with Veronica Veera into a senior citizens orgy with Eduardo Simoneau. He's also done Jamie Gilliss, his tax returns, chanting Buddhist mantras with ultra Macs and eating Thanksgiving dinner with Harry Reems. Ashley West isn't even his real name. It's his nom de porn. That's how hardcore about hardcore Ashley is. I actually didn't make it to that senior citizens orgy with Eduardo. I had to cancel at the last minute.

[00:04:37]

You were invited, though.

[00:04:38]

That's what counts. Now, the character Tracy often played in her adult movies was a wide eyed, nubile, sexually inexperienced, but oh so curious. An older character would take it upon himself or herself to initiate Tracy into the ways of love. And all of its many splendored, anatomically assorted forms. Tracy would, of course, prove herself to be the artist of pupils, a veritable funk prodigy. I'm not trying to do anything. I just want to learn about first.

[00:05:07]

I want to know why guys like her so much, because they like to touch them when they're making love with you. Would you please cover them up?

[00:05:17]

In this podcast, I'm going to assume Tracy's role, the nervous Navis eager to shed her innocence. At 41, I can make no claims to nobility, but I'm definitely inexperienced in the ways of the adult industry and I'm definitely also curious about it. So, Ashley, if I'm Tracy, that makes you the older and wiser mentor figure, the one who shows me what's what, erotically speaking you up to the task. We'll see, won't we? All right, listeners.

[00:05:44]

Ashley and I are about to take you into the Triple X world. So put your condoms on. Get that safeword ready, because we're going in hard and we're going in deep. We're all spending more time at home than ever. And that means finding new ways to have fun. Right, Ashley? Certainly a one way we both have fun is by playing best friends. Best friends is the perfect game. If you love solving challenging puzzles and as a listener to Once Upon a Time in the Valley, it's likely you're going to have an interest in complex things.

[00:06:23]

Best fiend gives you a fun way to have some socially distant competition with your friends. The way it works is simple match blocks of the same color to solve a level. Each level has its own goal, like, say, collecting a certain number of items and you don't even need an Internet connection to play. No Wi-Fi, no worries when taking a break while working on our show. We like to compete against each other. We aren't alone. This game has already been downloaded 100 million times, Besty, and is a unique and exciting puzzle game.

[00:06:53]

And my favorite part is that the game updates monthly with new levels and events. So it never gets old, right?

[00:06:59]

If puzzle level is unique and there were over 4000 of them, so we have plenty of options to keep us interested.

[00:07:05]

So engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters. Trust us with over 100 million downloads. This five star rated mobile puzzle game is a must play. Download best beans free on the Apple App Store or Google Play. That's friends without the are best beans. Well, modelling, which paper did you see the ad, please? And may I ask you your age? Do you have legal I.D. showing your age? No, no legal I.D. like a birth certificate, a driver's license, a driver's license.

[00:07:49]

What you would use to drive a car. Well, OK, let me run it down for you. What we do is it we're licensed to get you work with professional photographers. The majority of the work that we get is nude photographic modeling. The pay does run from one hundred a day, up to fifteen hundred a day, depending on who shooting you. Would you want to make an appointment? Come in for an interview. I'll go over the shootings with you and then you can make a decision from that.

[00:08:22]

So, no, you have to come in for an interview, honey, I can't book Cuba if I don't know what you look like. If you'll recall from our last episode, treacy's porn years, all two and a half to three years of them are a fog to her because of her intense and sustained drug use or so she claims.

[00:08:40]

Well, we're going to dispel that fog, just blow it clean away. We want those porn years to come in. Crystal clear for you. High definition, high resolution, the works. Picking up the action not in Steubenville or Redondo Beach, but in the lime green hippie van of Roger Haze, or rather the man Tracy calls Roger Hayes in her memoir, her mother's ex boyfriend and her ex molester cruising along the one on one. Tracy has just hung up with Jim s Tim North.

[00:09:13]

She calls him in her memoir. Jim S is the founder and owner of the World Modeling Agency and the premiere flesh peddler in the flesh trade. He would have given her the spiel that you just heard, which is from the nineteen eighty five documentary about the adult business, Fallen Angels, since it's the spiel he gave every new girl who phoned his office. Tracy Unless Roger maybe because she's worried her fake I.D. won't be enough to get her across. Or maybe because at 15 years old, she doesn't have access to a car and wouldn't know how to operate one if she did.

[00:09:47]

Or maybe both.

[00:09:49]

In any case, the two are headed to Jim s offices in Sherman Oaks in the San Fernando Valley. The newly minted porn capital of the world. And that in person. Let's see what you look like meeting. OK, I know nobody wants a history lesson, so we're gonna keep this one brief slate. Tell us what we need to know about the Valley circa 1980 for the Cliff's Notes version, please. I'll keep it quick, I promise. Adult films began to enter the mainstream in the 1970s when movies like Deep Throat and Behind the Green Door became surprise hits.

[00:10:23]

Linda Lovelace, Deep Throat Star was invited by Johnny Carson alter The Tonight Show. The term porno chic was coined, but still you couldn't see these movies in the neighborhood theater. You had to venture to the dicey part of town. Then along came the video home system, better known as VHS slutting, where in 1982 you could see explicit sex in the privacy of your own living room. The adult business exploded.

[00:10:50]

This is Paul Fishbein who began publishing adult video news. Known as ABN in 1983. Aviators to the adult industry, what variety is the Hollywood Hills pool? We were film buffs myself. Nurse Lufkin and we both graduated Temple University and we're working at Movies Unlimited, which was the biggest video store at that time in the world. What happened was remember that in the early 80s, most people were getting VCR for the first time. And up until that point, as you know, if you wanted to see an adult movie, you would go to an adult bookstore or a theater or if you rented eight millimeter a 60 millimeter films.

[00:11:29]

So 98 percent of adults had never seen an adult movie and they were coming into movies and limited and they would ask for recommendations. People had no idea what to buy, what was quality. And that's how we sort of said, oh, maybe we should make adult video news, which eventually became maybe in a trade magazine. And video didn't just make it easier to see pornos, video made it easier to make pornos as well. No longer was a degree from NYU film school required.

[00:11:57]

If you could scrape together the cash to buy a video camera. Figure out where to pointed you in business.

[00:12:04]

In her memoir, Tracy claims she had no idea that when she answered JMS ad for figure models, she was applying to become a nude model. And what's more, that Roger Hayes, who has a red blooded American male and self respecting pervert, surely knew it. Figure models meant declined to enlighten her. Does it count as suspect? For a number of reasons. The primary one, according to Tracy. She called world modeling and spoke to Jim himself.

[00:12:30]

And Jim, we now explain to new girls right off the bat. We heard him explain to one right off the bat. And that clip from Fallen Angels, that figure modeling was, in fact, nude modeling. Yes. Jim had a set speech prepared, and it's one he delivered thousands of times over a career in the adult industry that spanned 40 odd years.

[00:12:50]

His gym, we were running ads and most of the local papers for figure modeling. You couldn't say nude in the regular straight papers. So when they call, we were very upfront with them. We told them we relations and bonded, but were sitting in state, which we were, and that the majority of the staff that we got, which shake your modeling, which is nude modeling. So Tracy and Roger arrive at the world modeling agency at forty five 23.

[00:13:21]

Van Nuys Boulevard in 1984. The adult business is moving from film to video. This you already know. Well, it's also moving from New York to L.A., more specifically to the valley. Just a quick shot across the Santa Monica Mountains from Hollywood. Here's LAPD Detective Bob Novarro on the reason behind the migration. I joined the Los Angeles Police Department in 1970. And like all their officers, I went through your patrol duties and eventually ended up as a detective for the visuals call Administrative Vice Division.

[00:14:00]

And we handled the citywide major vice type crimes and also the pornography for the entire city of Los Angeles. The original pornography or a low quality. Done with filming. And they were done in New York or just by any place with a hotel room. When they developed the VHS, as the pornographers had a natural tendency to come to Los Angeles because we had the infrastructure here, we had the models, we had young ladies coming from all over the country to try to make it in the film world.

[00:14:33]

And many of them did and ended up doing obscenity or pornography.

[00:14:39]

Ashley, my impression of the world modeling office is that it's the adult industry, Shangri-La, the porn promised land.

[00:14:45]

Yeah, it's hard to overstate the importance of this office to the porn industry. It's where new talent showed up looking to break in. It's well established. Talent hung out to me. Directors and producers get the word on new movies and projects in the works. It's where the directors of producers with new movies and projects in the works came to find talent. So it's where business was done, basically, but it's also where friendships were formed, romances kindled.

[00:15:12]

Tom Byron, the biggest male porn star of Tracy's era. Along with Peter North and Mark Weiss, entered the industry in 1982, about 18 months before Tracy. By way of Houston, Texas. Here he is talking about how he got into the business and about the first time he saw the world famous world modeling agency office. I knew what I wanted to do when I was 15 and 1/2 years old and I had a fake I.D. and I sold my first porno film.

[00:15:39]

I saw Barbara broadcast. That was my goal to get to California and I was going to somehow figure out how to get into the porn industry because I thought it was the greatest thing in the world.

[00:15:50]

February 14th, 1980, I drive across the California state line. I tried calling some of the companies that I would see in the credits like freeway films.

[00:16:02]

And I called these companies and kind of my band, let me know, and they get these calls all day.

[00:16:09]

And I was just like, oh, you probably call an agent or something. Click you know, so I mean, that didn't work. Basically, it took me a couple of years to find my way into the business. I eventually started moonlighting at the LA Sex Shop in Sherman Oaks. The guy that was training me, you know, I was working nights. He said, yeah, this girl came in here today, you know, in the magazine.

[00:16:35]

Yeah. Yeah. There it is. He's right down the street. My ears perked up. I went, really? Yeah. Face a world bottling or something like that. And I drove past that and I went there. It is a fucking sign all. The industry is changing. But the difference isn't just found to VHS skyscrapers, to palm trees. The talent is also different. There's a new breed of female performer. The video vixen, Ashley.

[00:17:04]

Who is this beguiling creature?

[00:17:06]

Well, the previous generation of female stars, the ones who appeared in sex films, were often a little older with aspirations to a serious career in the arts. Pulling for these women was just supposed to be a side job. The thing they did on the way to getting where they wanted to go. And often they'd wear wigs on the set, heavy makeup, anything to disguise their identities. The new female stars, the ones appearing in sex videos, however, a right where they want to be.

[00:17:33]

Porn is the aspiration. And there weren't porn to make them famous. This is shown Mitchell, who began performing in New York in the 1970s. A perfect example of a sex film star. She was a dancer and a rock and roller, a fixture on the punk scene as S.B. Jeebies, even same backup for the Ramones once or twice.

[00:17:53]

There was film stars and then there were video stars. So there was a definite distinction. I was one of the original girls that starred in film in New York in the 70s. A lot of us were already kind of rooted in either the art world, the music world or the acting world doing off Broadway, summer stock, things like that. And our SAG agent actually helped us paved our way into making extra money by introducing us to some of the people in the porn business where, as you know, you come to California and people were getting hired specifically to be a porn star.

[00:18:28]

So that was a whole different thing. And there was definitely a star maker, sort of the cookie cutter. Everybody for a while had long hair and blue eyes, you know, Barbie dolls, slash surfer girl look. Adult actor Billy D, who began his career in the late 70s, worked through the 80s and the early 90s, and he was the rare black performer in those days. Does it mean that Barbie dolls slash surfer girl look? Well, in the 70s, you know, there wasn't a lot of talent out there, female, just a few women working in the business.

[00:19:01]

They were kind of playing, I guess you would say, more like, you know, your mom kind of playing day. And it all changed that age, the radio area and ages and, you know, just becoming more and more accessible. They were coming in, you know, hot, good looking young down in silicone. What can I tell you? But they were getting better looking all the time. After awhile, it was like, am I getting a foot?

[00:19:28]

Because the video vixens have to be knockouts because it's their images that are doing the box covers and it's the box covers more than anything else that sells the video. If more attention is often paid to the box cover than to the video itself. Paul Fishbein, again, Fox covers were shot really beautifully. I remember that the pictures were like fashion magazine covers and they were pornography, beautifully shot. And sometimes the contents inside didn't come close to what was on the box cover.

[00:20:01]

Tracy kind of came on the heels of that. And so she came out very glamorous. She sort of was part of that glamorization of the adult star in the 80s, some of the companies who would just put, you know, Traci Lords on the cover. She'd be in a four minute scene and the rest of it would be garbage. Tracy is one of the first of the video vixens.

[00:20:22]

And of course, she's one of the biggest, maybe the biggest. She does, however, have to Piers, Ginger Lynn and Christy Canyon, Tracy, Ginger and Christy.

[00:20:33]

Other top female performers at the euro understand Ginger and Christie's path into the industry. And you begin to understand treacy's. These next few minutes might seem like a digression. They're not. Tracy is utterly opaque about her time in the business. No details, no nothing. It was horrible. And that's more or less all she'll say. So we're going to give you her experience second hand through the first hand experiences of Ginger and Christie.

[00:21:10]

Ginger came first just before Tracey in December 1983. We'll start with her.

[00:21:16]

Ginger hails from Rockford, Illinois. The daughter of a cop.

[00:21:21]

Here's how a nice girl like Ginger finds herself in a nasty place like the World Modeling Agency.

[00:21:26]

I had moved to California to visit a family member of my grandfather who was in the hospital that was sick. He ended up passing and I thought that I could live in California for, you know, be kind of live in the beach to be cheap, free and easy and wonderful. And I got a job right away. I was a manager for a Musicland store in Illinois. And so I went into one of the stores. I end up being a regional manager.

[00:21:50]

So I had nine stores, but I still didn't have enough money to survive and live the lifestyle that I wanted to live. Ginger spotted Jim South ad in the Orange County Register, wanted figure models 500 to 1000 dollars per day. They're working all these hours. And to think that I could make you make that kind of money. I had no problem with nudity whatsoever, but I didn't think that at five foot one, which is slang for. However, I decide I'm tall, that davit it varies from five foot five foot four.

[00:22:28]

Anyway, so I had some reservations about if they would hire me as a short model. But when you're naked, it really doesn't matter if you're proportioned right. It really doesn't matter.

[00:22:39]

So what I did was I went into Jim's office. Christy, can incomes last, she enters the business in 1984 for just a few months after Tracey and Krista's testimony is, I think, particularly valuable because like Tracey, unlike Ginger, Christy is a local a valley girl. And Christy and Tracey are so close in age, not even two years apart, a year and 10 months. Here's how a nice girl like Christy finds herself in a nasty place like the World Modeling Agency.

[00:23:14]

It was like summer of 1984 and I was living in Hollywood at a total dump. I was barely 18 and I was waiting for my girlfriend to pick me up. And this guy pulls over in this white TransAm. He said, Oh, what are you doing? Want to wait in the car? And I said, Sure. He was cute, like a little beach boy, you know, like a beach kid, muscular tan, blond hair, like nonthreatening looking.

[00:23:42]

And so what do you do for a living? So I work at night at a restaurant, seating people the daytime. I work at a clothing store. And so then he said, oh, have you thought of big your modeling? And I honestly was so naive. I thought it was like hand modeling. Feet, arms. And he's like, no, this is figure modeling. And he pulls out a hustler with the paper clips on his pages.

[00:24:07]

He opens it up and it was him. And Crystal Breeze. And, you know, his member was like three inches from her open and a waiting mouth. And I remember thinking, oh, my God, it's kind of exciting, it's kind of sexy, but what is? I'm not from there. I'm like, you know, upper middle class family. But he gave me the card for Jim. S never threw it away and kind of kept it kept doing my same two jobs and then over like the next thirty, forty five days I could never catch up and the bills were due and that's it.

[00:24:39]

It was in the 80s when things were cheap. And then I remember calling that number one night like ten, eleven, twelve o'clock at night and left a message for Jim. And then he called the next morning.

[00:24:52]

I'd be curious to know what Jim said to Ginger and Christie once they were in his office. If I didn't already know. This is Jim talking to a girl named Kim in his office in the documentary Fallen Angels.

[00:25:05]

OK. What I do if you decide to do this, can I help you get work with professional photographers and producers? I make sure it fit. You're paid immediately after the shooting. Now, you did understand that most of the work is new, right? OK. When I get your work, a full day is up to seven hours. Seven hours is the maximum that anyone can keep you for a shooting. That would include makeup artist, hairstyling nails if you needed to launch the whole shebang.

[00:25:37]

Christie described the experience of walking into the world modeling office for the first time.

[00:25:42]

It was an older building, like it was pride built in the 60s, narrow staircase that walked up to Jim's offices. And then straight ahead was the door. And there was like that tint on the door so no one could see in. But you walked in and there was like a little room to the right. And then, like, the big room straight ahead, which is where he had the cattle calls, but his office was to the left door was pried ninety five percent of the time.

[00:26:08]

I think I had like a shag like that multicolored shag carpet from the 70s. Like, you don't want to lose a tooth in it. You'd never find the tooth again on the walls on each side. Yep. Like eight by tens of girls lined up. Traci Lords gingerly. His desk was straight in when you walked in the door and then like a brown couch to the left. It was very kind of cluttered and small, but cozy. There was something comforting about it.

[00:26:38]

Ginger remembers her first impression of JMS.

[00:26:41]

You know, he's the combination of Jethro Botein from The Beverly Hillbillies and Elvis Southern drawl, Big Sideburns College. DARlAN always made sure that you took care of me. He was a wonderful man, a wonderful agent. And for me, kind of like a father figure.

[00:27:02]

Ashley, was there a protocol to these meetings? Did you just talk to these girls? Good night for all of them.

[00:27:06]

What he certainly talked to them and he certainly looked at them, but he also took Polaroid pictures of them.

[00:27:13]

Here he is telling a girl he's going to take a Polaroid picture of her and fallen angels. What I have to do is I have to get a Polaroid picture of you so that when the photographer comes in, they look at the picture in the books. They pick you four shootings. Can I get a Polaroid of you in the studio? Right in there. OK. Let me get you to go. Just make a left right into the studio, disrobe and power jam when you're ready.

[00:27:42]

And here he is actually taking a Polaroid picture of a girl and fallen angel. You give me something maybe with a foot on the stool, shows the line sometimes. This is a very good side profile showing the lines and the feeling real good with a very special expression on the face.

[00:28:07]

Standing in front of JMS and his Polaroid camera is an experience Christie will never forget. All the girls had to get naked. We did like a frontal shot, a side shot. And as Jim would call it, a family shot and kind of like, you know, look over your shoulder. And I remember thinking, oh, my God, I'm getting naked. I'm going to turn around. I don't know what he's gonna do to me. And I wasn't with a lot of guys before I got in.

[00:28:32]

I wasn't, you know, with maybe more than five or six guys. You know, I didn't feel scared for some reason. And I certainly didn't go, oh, I can't do this. And leave told me to get dressed again and didn't even make a move on me, didn't say anything rude, you know, didn't say anything condescending. I mean, I think you said they're gonna love your big natural, you know, breast ASRS or, you know, something like that.

[00:28:54]

And yet it was so like normal. He sounds very business like Ashley, very cut and dry.

[00:29:02]

Well, Jim started out as an insurance salesman in Dallas before moving to Los Angeles and into the agency. Like, I think porn was just another business to him. He'd sold insurance. Now he was selling girls. He was a family man, stayed married to the same woman. It might have been a sleazy industry. He was operating it. But I've really heard anyone above from Tracey, of course, say that he was sleazy.

[00:29:25]

Jim describing his ethos, you know, you can be a jerk and be an agent or you could be a nice guy being a jet. I mean, I don't lie to him. I don't try to take him to bed. It's simply they're making money, you know, and making money. And the longer they work, the more money that both of us make. And I look at what these girls are doing to make a living, and they certainly deserve, at least from the age and making money off them, the respect and really and truly what most agents don't.

[00:29:57]

Yeah. Is it look, you're giving me 10 percent. That means I work for you. You don't work for me. That's why you're paying me. And I believe that. OK, this was kind of amazing to me. We went to see Jim at his house in the fall of 2019, which is thirty five years after Tracy and Roger Hays went to see him at his office in four. Yet his memory of that meeting is so sharp, so vivid.

[00:30:24]

It's like it all happened yesterday. She came in. I remember it was a time of the year where it gets dark early. Back then I stayed open till 7:00 or 8:00 at night. She came in with an older guy. His last name was Rogers. I don't remember his first name. And he said he was her stepfather. Tracy had an absolute legal California I.D. with a matching birth certificates. I interviewed her signature, the other room that would back when you didn't have to do movies, you could do just magazines.

[00:31:05]

When she was in there undressing and I would say Rogers Rogers said she'll end up doing porno, so I thought that was kind of strange. She didn't talk that much to him. It was almost. Is it because we were in the little office up there, not the bigger room back then? The bigger room was used as a little studio and she just kind of ignored him. Was a nasty but kind of ignored him. She was gorgeous. She was made up.

[00:31:33]

You would have never dreamed she was under age. Very, very confident. If you've ever met anybody 16 going on 30. That would be Tracy. I think that Texas expression would be she was slicker. Now she had the ball Loker dish. You might remember from the previous episode that Tracy claims in her memoir that it's at this meeting that Jim gives her her first taste of cocaine. Ashleigh, will you do the honors? Read the passage? I snorted a line of white powder.

[00:32:08]

North cold coke from a mirror. He left in the little dressing area. I'd never snorted Coke before. And he gave me a weird, jittery burst of energy. Suddenly, I felt charged. Brave from the drug and champagne. I said Coke. Funny because Tracy puts the word in quotation marks. Yeah. I guess to convey how totally foreign an entity cocaine is to her at this point in her life. But she also says earlier in her memoir, the reason her mother and Roger were fighting so much is because Roger was first selling and using cocaine.

[00:32:40]

And she'd go so far as to suggest in a 2012 talk show appearance that Roger turned her into the FBI to avoid drug charges. So even if she herself had never taken cocaine before, she certainly knew what it was.

[00:32:54]

Yeah, that's the least of the problems with this cocaine story of hers. We asked Jim about Tracy's version of events. Yeah, in her book, I believe, she gave me a different name. I think it was Jim North. I've never read her book. But whatever it was and said that I had told her she could use the restroom and there was cocaine up there. And everybody that knows me there really knows me. Laughs about that. I am so against drugs.

[00:33:27]

I took two puffs of a marijuana cigarette about 40 years ago and I hated it. And I don't even drink. I'm boring. I like Pepsis and Westerns. Tim is backed up by Tom Byron. Jim hated Coke when it came to drugs and AIDS. Jim's as straight as they come and he didn't do it. He didn't like it. He didn't want these girls to do it because cocaine made the talent unreliable. You know, if a girl the cocaine all night, she wouldn't show up to a shoot where she would show up and be all fucked up.

[00:34:02]

And, you know, the producers of good plane that the girls didn't do a good job. So, yeah, Tim was very anti-drug. Christy Canyon to himself. He was the nicest guy. In fact, when I for that two months that I got into a little bit of drugs, he used to say to me, stop it. Get off of them. You're losing your boobs. It's unhealthy. Don't do this like he would never have.

[00:34:25]

I called B.S. I call B.S. on her. Jim adds this. This is going to sound funny, even with the business that I'm in. It's almost like I'm their father. I get on it. They do drugs and I do get on it. They do drugs. I get on. I if they're tardy in late for a shooting. And so anything a father would do even out of the new business is what I do. Girls don't like for the agent to watch them having sex.

[00:34:58]

I walked into Ron Vogels studio. The only time that I can remember even I used to produce and finance some movies, but I walked in there and I heard a girl in the backroom. Little later on saying, Damn. He had just popped on my face when Jim Saltz walked in, my agent. And she hated that. And I understand it.

[00:35:27]

So Jim's a daddy and a. Who's your daddy kind of way, but still a daddy who said the adult industry isn't family friendly. Next time on Once Upon a Time in the Valley, Tracy Softcore begins to harden.

[00:35:43]

I booked her with a photographer named Lance Kincaid and Land Kincaid shot her and Tom Biron together. And it was a simulation shoot just touching. No penetration.

[00:35:57]

She agreed to do one with me like it's still photo over the fourth. They started sucking on the set. A shooter had to stop shooting because we were into each other.

[00:36:09]

We kind of hated hardcore. This has been a presentation of C 13 originals, a division of Caden's 13 executive produced by Chris Corcoran and me, the Linoleic, directed by Zach Levitt, created and written by me, produced by Ashley West, edited and mastered by Chris Basle, Bill Schulz, Perry Craughwell and Ian Mond. Theme Music and Original Score by Joel Goodman. Production Engineering Incoordination by Sean Cherry and Terence Melin. Phone Field Recording by Rich Burner Artwork Marketing and PR by Kurt, Courtney, Josephine, Frances and Hilary Chef.

[00:36:49]

Once upon a Time in the Valley is hosted by me and Ashley West. Thanks for listening.