I'm Oprah Winfrey, welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast, I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time taking time to be more fully present. Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us. Starts right now. Tonight, our next chapter.

I'm at the glamorous London Hotel in New York City with the woman GQ recently crowned the mistress of the universe beyond, say, just hours before she debuts the deeply personal documentary she says killed her in so many ways. Hello.

Hello. Oh, how are you? You look so beautiful. I thank you so much. Oh, thank you so much.

Are you kidding? Have a seat. You're over there based here. You. Oh, good, good. I'm actually really nervous about today, are you? Yeah, I am.

I'm excited, but I'm because in just a matter of like what, less than two hours your whole life is going to be laid out before the world in a way that we've never seen before.

Absolutely.

Yeah. I woke up this morning and I'm like, what are you doing?

But but, you know, this was going to happen. You know, it feels sort of like I was thinking about this today. It feels sort of like when somebody has a book and they put it out into the world. Right. And once it's gone, it's like you released it.

Yeah, but I imagine that with you up until the very last second, you could still be editing. Right. Tweaking where you're doing that.

I have to tell myself, let it go, let it go. Relax. It is what it is, is great.

It is great. Thank you. But OK, here's the truth.

We haven't seen you literally since the Super Bowl and the world sort of shifted. And I have to ask you, did you cause that power surge?

I think I did. I couldn't believe that happened. It was so surreal because all of this energy I have bottled up inside of me and I didn't know how it would feel when I was actually performing because we rehearsed so much and I was prepared. But you just never know, like, is the jacket going to come off? And time is, oh, boy, is my foot going to get stuck in. You know, all these things can go wrong.

And it was just really magical. And I felt all this energy inside. And when I got off the stage, it felt like I won the Super Bowl because it felt like such a relief, like it was done.

And then my husband said, and the power is out. And I'm like, yeah, right. That's that's funny. And he's like, no, like the TV. So the power literally went out, went out.

I thought you had something to do with it. It was so it was it was what magic really is. I mean, I was I was tweeting with people at the time and I didn't know anything to say except just all caps beat. And what was so amazing to me about it, I later tweeted this, that here was this big moment. It was a big moment. We all knew that it was a big moment, particularly coming off of the past two weeks that you'd had with all the inauguration stuff.

I bet that was even more sad. It felt great. It really did. And I've never worked so hard for twelve minutes in my life. Really.

You know what it was you met the moment you met? The moment it was this absolutely gargantuan. It was the Superdome and Super Bowl and people are watching from all over the world. And you walked right up to it.

Actually, you, Sasha, fierce light up to it and you met that moment. And I you know, and what it was, it it made us all feel like if you could do that, we could do that, too.

Maybe not in those boots, but so did you know from the moment you hit the stage I got this or was throughout the whole performance, you were thinking, OK, I got it. Now, when did you feel like I got this? The second I was on the lift and I felt that fire, it was so hot and it just like made me feel like Superwoman. And I knew I had it. Wow. I knew I had it.

I felt the magic. I was lost. I didn't I actually can't really remember too much. Wow. It just was like and before you know it, I'm at the end of Halo. Yeah. During Halo I did have because I had interaction with the fans. So it's you connect when you have eye contact. Yeah. And I remember that, I remember thinking I have to remember every second of this moment. Yeah. Yeah. That was a great moment.

Kelly. Michelle. Oh my God.

It was so good I couldn't wait for them to pop up on those toasties. I'm just like, wait, the girls come out. It's like, yeah, that was so great.

And Kelly was there with me for two weeks in New Orleans and she she didn't have to be there. She just was there to support me. And it was so beautiful to spend that time with her. Michelle, I miss them so much. Do you find I don't know what it is a moment where you enter the zone. Right. And then how do you describe that? What takes over? I feel home. I feel I feel like I know exactly what I'm doing.

I feel like everything is.

In control, I don't know how else to describe it. There is a warmth, there is like a fire, you know, inside. You know what I thought it was watching you there. I thought that is where art meets God. Wow. Yeah. Where the Segway happens, where something takes over and you enter that zone of that's really a sacred zone, really, where all artists do their thing.

That's where you what you live for. That's what I live for because it doesn't happen every performance, you know. So when it does happen, it's like, no, you want it to happen at that moment. The Superbowl at the Super Bowl. Wow. Wow. So did you sleep good that night? Did you celebrate?

I did. I had some fried alligator. I had turtle, which I never had before. Very interesting. I don't know if I do that again. We ate so well. I had a drink with my mother for the first time with my mother doesn't drink. And I said, Mom, tonight, after all this work, she did one hundred costumes without dance. As I said, we're going to have a toast. So I had a drink with her and we went to a party and danced with the dance to Frankie Beverly in Vegas all night and had a great celebration.

So let's talk about life is about a dream, I saw it and I understood so much about you, it felt familiar and it felt unfamiliar. It felt exciting. It felt exhilarating.

I found it to be riveting and personal and intimate and empowering. I watched it with nine of my girls who are going to college now from South Africa over here. And when we finish watching it, they said, Mama, oh, she's just like us. Yeah. You opened yourself up in a way that nobody can imagine you would do. You've been so, so fiercely private. And when you did that, were you worried about overexposing yourself? Yes, I.

I battled with the edit. And in the end, I just jumped and I said. I am no different than than any woman, and I feel like in all the things that matter. Yes, so I wanted you got better shoes, you got a big closet and you got more square footage.

But but for the things that matter, that matter and I felt like the story, it just connects the dots in my life. And it was time for me to share my story and to hopefully connect with people, even people that are not necessarily fans of my music. But it's just, I think, an inspiring story. I do, too. Yeah. And I felt like it's time you said this is about trusting myself, learn to trust myself and about growth.

Have you gotten to the point now where you can you think trust yourself? I think so. In the end, I still battle with. Am I making the right decision, but I always know and I am beginning to trust myself a lot faster. I still have people that I trust and I think I'll always have my support system and people that I go to for advice. But in the end, I always know what I'm supposed to do, so I'm getting there faster.

So tell me, when you get to the point where you can say on camera, I'm going to go make love to my husband and I think you may be there, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

So right out the box, life is but a dream. You talk so openly about letting your father go as your manager. How hard was it to come to that decision? One of the hardest things I've ever done, definitely, you know, someone you love, someone that's given you life, someone that's done such a fantastic job. You know, it's hard, but it's a part of life and is a part of growth. And I had to tell myself at some point, you have to be the adult that your father has raised you to be and prepared you to be.

For nearly 20 years, Beyonce's father, Matthew Knowles, was the guiding force behind this superstar, Matthew managed Beyonce in her first group, Girls Time and later Destiny's Child, and then her solo career. In March 2011, Beyonce announced she was dropping her father as her manager.

You know, years ago on the Oprah show, there was a parenting expert that said something I never forgot. And it's really come in handy as of now, mothering my, you know, college age daughters, he said. Most parents forget that there's a time in their child's life when they are the manager, when their children are young, and then in every child's life, usually around 16, 17, you're no longer the manager.

You become the consultant. And parents don't know how to make the shift from manager to consultant. And there's always problems when they when the parents don't really get that. And I thought of you when I saw the doc because I thought, gee, that's an every parent situation. But if your parent is really your manager.

Your manager. Yeah.

How how does that even happen? Because it doesn't happen all at once. You had to start thinking about it and then, oh my God, am I going to do it and when am I going to do it?

So I'm sure it was difficult and we both knew it was time, maybe a few years before. But I love my father so much and he has taught me so many things. So it was something that was hard. You know, I don't know what else to say, but I can say that this duck really helped me, for one, just editing and really seeing. Our dynamics and healing our relationship as father and daughter, this documentary healed me from so many things, you know, as scary as it is to know that the world is going to see some of my private thoughts.

I feel so much stronger and I feel brave and I feel like I've been able to talk about it's been like therapy. I'm healed so much and I'm a stronger person emotionally because of it. Because of this movie. Yes. OK, so we see the cameras in the car and the cameras in the bed, the cameras in the plane, the cameras were there. Cameras everywhere all the time.

No, there's a time and place for cameras and all of my videos that were in the bed and in the bathrooms and all these crazy places. That's just the camera in my computer. OK, that camera and the computer has been my friend. When I'm away and I'm alone and I need to talk and I need to hear myself because, you know, you hold so many thoughts in your mind so that your diary, my diary and diary, it has become my diary.

Actually, I haven't really done it that that much since I've become a mother. I don't have time. Real time to talk to your son. Yes. But before then, for the past maybe three years, that's been my diary. Wow. So you don't write. You just talk. Just talk. Mm hmm. There's a moment when you say you're looking into the camera, which I now know is your computer, and you say I just have so much going on and your voice kind of chokes.

Oh, I felt for you because we've all been in that moment.

And I wonder how does the weight and the demand of the expectations, how do you how do you balance and process all of that? It's hard. And I have to shut down and shut everything off and just go into my home. How many phones do you have to to only to to. I am surprised. That's very good. OK, yes, I. Yeah, when when it gets to that crazy place, I have to get away and just be just kind of forget about everything that's going on, but usually I don't have that option because I'm up against a deadline and and I just have to fight through it.

And eventually, I don't know why. I do know why I'm blessed. I'm fortunate, but it always works out, you know. And I know that I always know that in the end, all the stress, all of the crazy, whatever I'm going through, it always works out.

On January 7th, 2012, Beyonce and Jay-Z welcomed their first child, a daughter they named Blue Ivy.

What is it like really to be you right now? I mean, when we think of you, I think of you as the rule the world.

You are the preeminent mysteries of the universe. So what is that like to be right now, to be thirty one years old and to be Beyonce? Well. I have to say, I feel so good that I'm a mother. It's what I'm the most proud of and it just made everything make sense to me. And I couldn't imagine my life if I did not have my daughter. Would you have done Life is but a dream and put it out now?

Was Blue Ivy a part of that? Well, I started on it years before I knew I was pregnant or having a baby, but I did not put it out because my story did not feel complete. And it's been maybe three years. Right. Because you've had the tape. Yes. You're the executive producer. Could have put it out any time, but it was incomplete.

The story was incomplete and I didn't know why. But once I became pregnant and even went after I was pregnant, I still didn't know why. And after I gave birth and I've looked at my diaries and I said, oh, my God, everything makes sense now. I said, life is but a dream. Three years before, you know, it was so many connections in the film that is my life that I didn't understand until. I gave birth, even the first song I recorded for my album was because I needed to to get out all of these feelings and is just everything just completely connected.

And I said. It's ready now. I am who I am now, I have my story to tell now. I am Beyonce. I wasn't complete before my daughter and you, yet you then you share the world didn't know that you'd had a miscarriage. You share that in life is but a dream. So you made a conscious choice to share that opinion. Wow.

Well, I felt like there are so many couples that go through that and it was a big part of my story. It was one of the hardest things I've been through. And how you keep that a secret?

Well, it's one of the reasons I did not share I was pregnant the second time because, you know, you just you don't know what's going to happen. And that was hard because all of my my family and my friends knew when we celebrated and it was hard. And I'm not the only person that goes through this. So many people go through it. And in the end, I have my daughter and there is hope. And if I feel so fortunate.

Did you live in fear, though? Every month I did. For this second pregnancy. Did you live in fear? I did. And when you were dancing on stage and you're doing all that them. Yes. Yeah.

Were you afraid? I was afraid. But my doctor told me that I was completely healthy and don't be crazy and paranoid and and to live my life.

And that's what I did.

I had not seen anybody who was happier or more a sense of contentment with recognizing that you were pregnant. So to ask, how did it change you? I'm. She introduced me to myself, my daughter introduced me to myself, and I have my best friend and in my connection with my husband. You know, my mother and I are so close and I always prayed that I would have that type of relationship with my daughter and she's still a baby.

But the connection I had with her when I was giving birth was something that I've never felt before. Yeah, tell me about that. Well, she just we had a communication and I envisioned her and I envision the birth and I envisioned are pushing through the wall. Yes. Yeah. And honestly, I said, you know, I know I can't control everything, but I do believe that we have that power and I wanted to enjoy that experience.

So I've really studied and I had an incredible birth. And you were talking to her. She was coming out absolutely right. Like, yes, I didn't speak about all of my energy. Yeah. On her. And that's really kind of already.

So she's thirteen months old and we now in life is but a dream. We finally get to see her. And you all made a conscious effort not to sell photos and not to do that. I'm sure there was much discussion about how to handle it. Yes, yeah.

It was hard because that's something that you don't know the right answer, you know, and in the end, it just didn't make any sense. And we felt like there so many people that feel like they're part of your life and so many people that want to be happy for you and want to give you their blessings. And we thought it was just the best thing to do, because at some point, of course, someone's going to be hounding and is not safe.

So we put the pictures out and we shared our joy and we've been really protective. And she it's been a year and we've been able to go certain places where she can run around, you know. Well, tell us about her.

Is she funny? She she hilarious. And she is either. And she's fire. She is fire. I didn't expect her to be fire. But, Lord, I'm going to have more time. I can see it already. Very smart.

She loves books.

She love the books you have. I sent her the Blue Ivy. She has her book club. Yeah she she is doing flash cards and she's beautiful. You're doing flash cards. But I'm afraid she likes it. She likes how Jay-Z is a dad.

Incredible. And well we know he wrote glory about her but that was when she was born. How is he. He's a different human being. I was going to say absolutely. And it's really beautiful to see such a great father and I'm so lucky.

How big is the Carter family going to expand to would just say, no, I definitely want another child.

But it was also important for me to do what what I love. And I love to perform. I love to make music. So I wanted to have my daughter and then see if I was still as passionate and perform. And maybe after this next door, I maybe have another baby. Maybe, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. But your daughter did not take away the passion for performing. No, I feel like I did a show three months after I gave birth, which was really crazy.

I had clearly never given birth. I didn't know that I would gain 60 pounds and all the things I want. You gained fifty seven pounds. But I really wanted to know and I feel so fortunate to do my job. I love my job. I love singing. I love the way he feels. I just, you know, it's nothing where you feel the most yourself. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And with Blue Ivy of course.

And now I can share that with her. And I feel like when I'm touring, I'm able to perform, which is what I love for two hours a day travel and know that I don't have to do anything else during the day. So I can go to museums, I can go to great restaurants, I can have a life and share those travels with my daughter.

And wow, you get to let her see the world. Yeah. You get to see it through her eyes. She gets to see it through your eyes. Wow.

What I think you get a great sense of is your relationship with Jay-Z. You balance being the fierce independent woman with obviously a woman who also adores and loves her man.

Absolutely. And I would not be the woman I am if I did not go home to that man. Woman How has he helped you on so many levels? We were friends first for a year and a half before we went on any date on the phone for a year and a half. And that foundation is so important in a relationship just to have someone that you just like, you know. Is so important is someone that is honest, do you know I remember the first time you were on the Oprah show and I told you, don't go around telling people who you're dating.

I think you took that all the way. I took it because I could take it. Oh, my God. I didn't say you don't tell people we were dating, but you can tell people who you're married to. OK, you took it a little too far. All the way. All the way. You got to listen when Oprah speak. Good, good. Good. Yeah. How did you all keep that a secret? I think now people have a respect for our relationship.

And it's one of the reasons why, because they know that we want to have our lives and when it's time to perform on the stage or in this time, but when it's time to go on a date, it'll be who we are. People are respectful of that. Are you a better woman because of him? Absolutely. Is he a better man because of you? Absolutely. Yes. We we have done for each other and I think it's the most important thing in a relationship.

So Amy Wallace in GQ writes this about you. I thought this was an interesting description. She said she's hot, no doubt, but her imminent independence and her ambition make some label her cool to the touch. Her allure lies in the crux of that tension.

I thought that was I thought that was really interesting that your allure lies in the crux of the tension between hot and cool. So how do you balance first of all, are you aware of that, that you're hot and you're also cool? I don't know. I guess I'm aware of it. Yeah, I'm attracted to things that are opposites all of the time, you know? So I guess that would make sense is just a part of who I am.

You know, I love things that are really tasteful, but that kind of push the envelope. Yeah, you do balance. Yeah, you do balance. You know, years ago when we were on the Oprah show, you were telling me about Sasha Fierce being the sort of alter ego of yours. And she is hot. Right. And sometimes she's she's like mad. She's fierce up there. And you say in the movie, life is but a dream.

You say that you sometimes before going on stage, want somebody to make you mad so you can take that energy.

My road manager does that sometimes, just not working anymore, because I know he does. I'm like, no, that's not going to work. But it's interesting that now I don't really need Sasha Fierce. I don't really have the alter ego that's so different. And I don't know, for one, you helped me with that. I remember it being on your show and you because I get really nervous when I have to speak. And you were like, just why can't you use that when you speak?

And I'm like, yeah, that makes complete sense. But I invite Sasha in. Exactly.

But now I feel like I'm showing more of myself in my music. I'm more connected to my art because I feel like such if there's lives within me all the time. Wow. So you've integrated this. Yeah. Oh yeah.

I have to ask you this. How on earth and I when I had a conversation with Justin Bieber not too long ago and I was saying to him, look, I'm really concerned because how do you figure out who you are when you're in this prism of fame?

I mean, yeah, yeah. I feel like probably because of my mother and my foundation, it's one of the things that I've always been connected to. I always knew who I was and I never. Felt the need to follow anyone or to do what anyone else is doing, even when I was a teenager.

But did you not have the disease to please as a girl? I did, but it was more compassion and more. I want to make everyone happy. Did you have that wanting everybody to like you and not wanting to disappoint Daddy? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Are you still there? A bit, a bit probably is still too much, I'm getting there. Well, you say you say in the HBO, life is but a dream. You say, yeah, I learned the difference in business and polite don't match.

And I said, amen to that.

It's true. Yeah.

People just push you as far as you allow them. You know, I'm learning that you can be kind and be strong, but. Like I said in the dock, I have to be fair to myself, hmm. You know, one of the things that you talk about is that I think, you know, I could talk to you for hours about I thought it was so smart for you to bring up at this time about trying to balance, trying to stay current, being relevant, being on the cutting edge, all of the things that are important if you're going to be in the culture.

And then how much of yourself to give away did you think that life is but a dream is your way of saying, all right. Here I am innocent. Yes, and I feel like after so many years, 16 years, I've only shared who I am through my music and I feel like that mystique is very important and they are things that I still just don't feel comfortable talking about or tweeting about. Exactly. I don't tweet a lot. But you don't have time.

Your mom. I don't have time. Yeah. And I think for me it's so much fun to tell my stories through photography. So that's what I chose to do.

Because you don't want people in your life and all your business all the time. It's the time and a place for it. OK, you say so profoundly that life is about connecting the dots and that there is a thread that runs through all of our lives. And when you can figure out what that thread is that connects the dots, that's what your purpose is really in life. Are you in the process of connecting the dots? Yes, and I am starting to live and pay attention because they're everywhere, because life is speaking to you all the time.

Yeah.

And once you're aware of it and once you're editing and you see all these things, you're like, oh my God, it's always, always, it's always there. Yeah.

And so now that we've seen the Super Bowl experience, we've seen Sasha Fierce integrated with Beyonce. What's next?

Well, I'm in the studio. I'm going on tour. One thing I'm trying to learn is time management is the hardest thing for me and taking my time and doing things at a slower pace because I've been kind of raised to work so hard that it doesn't even feel comfortable for me when I'm not. I know. I know. I know. I know what that's like. So I'm trying to to just take it easy, do things when when I am inspired.

And it's hard because I have to plan, but I'm working it out. I'm trying to get there.

I hope you can take it in, because the problem is when you're working and moving at a pace like this, I know for the twenty five years of the Oprah show, I have to look back at tape sometimes to even see what happened. You can't even you you stop feeling what's really happened. And I don't want that to happen to, you know. Yeah. I don't either. It won't. It won't happen. I feel like your daughter has has been my balance.

I want to just close by saying this. I always had a lot of admiration and respect for you. You know, I like dancing to the music. I like playing it when I'm working out. But after watching life is but a dream, I have to tell you that I come away being reminded of that line in a Maya Angelou poem that says, You make me proud to spell my name w o m a. Why not just really, I think that that that life is but a dream is so great that you're not just going to be, you know, mistress of the universe.

You are now beloved masters of the universe. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time. Thank you. That's so nice of you. Thank you.

I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple podcast and subscribe rate and review this podcast. Join me next week for another super soul conversation. Thank you for listening.