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This is Planet Money from NPR. Usually when we as humans are faced with a big problem and someone offers us a simple solution, we're like, thank you so much. And we just do that thing. And in this huge problem we're collectively facing right now, this pandemic, we've been trying some complicated solutions. Lockdown's complicated vaccines, hard to produce, but one very simple solution has somehow become controversial.


Just a small piece of cloth that you wear on your face masks so simple, achievable, in fact, if we all wore masks. Goldman Sachs says that alone could avert one trillion dollars in economic loss by preventing future lockdowns.


More importantly, health experts say masks could save 33000 lives by just October. A whole stadium of life saved if enough of us wear them.


We are in the group project of our lives that we pass or fail based on participation. But not everyone wants to participate, like some people just won't wear them. Other people don't even believe that they work. So as we approach month nine of this pandemic, it might be a good moment to just step back, not to finger point, not to judge, just to ask with true curiosity and maybe a dose of humility, why don't some people wear masks?


And is there anything we can do to convince them?


We actually have some good news. There's an entire field of economists who study exactly this type of conundrum. Why do humans sometimes choose not to do things that are in their own best interests? Mask wearing is kind of in the collective best interest, but in a pandemic, that distinction becomes blurred really fast.


That's right.


Behavioral economists, you know, the people who designed those nudges, the small interventions that guide people towards different behavior, behavioral economists have helped America smoke less, save more for retirement, practice safer sex and drink and drive less.


Can they help us resolve this mask conundrum, too? Hello and welcome to Planet Money.


I'm Mary Child. And I'm Karen Deafen. Today on the show, behavioral economists help us figure out how to encourage people to do this small thing that could do such a big good. We also speak with an expert who helped Heinicke and tackle a different intractable problem drinking and driving by using Nacho's. And we commissioned our very own behavioral economist designed Wear a Mask public service announcements with some new friends of the show who you just might recognize.


Economics is about more than just charts and graphs, mainly it's about people. If you ever see Lincoln squinting on a penny, it's because I squeezed the crap out of it.


People opening businesses, following their dreams, struggling to build something in a chaotic world.


I just remember downtown burning.


It got real crazy real fast. On the indicator from Planet Money, we bring you easy to understand explanations and human stories to help you make sense of the economy. And we do it in just 10 minutes a day.


OK, so nudges those small interventions that behavioral economist used to redirect behavior to help people do stuff that's good for them, that for whatever reason they're just not doing just can be incredibly powerful.


Take retirement, for example, instead of requiring employees to opt into a 401k, which a lot of people just don't do, behavioral economists suggested companies should opt you into saving for your retirement automatically and most employees just never opt out.


So they end up saving a lot more to figure out how to nudge people towards wearing a mask. We called up Zeon Bono. He's a behavioral economist at Swarthmore.


Unfortunately, I think you've hit on the central question of our time, right? Why are people resistant to prosocial behavior? That's the first question.


Why? And science says there are many things about a pandemic that just make it hard for the human brain to fully grasp.


For starters, salience, which is behavioral economist speak for even if we have facts and data, that's not what usually moves us to action.


When people are faced with uncertainty, which I think we all are, we look around us, we kind of grasp for things in our environment that can help us make sense of the uncertainty and resolve it to some extent instead of data.


Often we will look to the things that we can see and touch and feel right in front of us for guidance and answers, which is partly why you see these pockets all over the country where in one pocket everyone is always wearing a mask and in another pocket people are wearing masks less.


One of the challenges here with covid is, you know, the cues that you're getting are not you know, that it's this devastating disease that most of us walk around our neighborhoods and people don't, you know, aren't falling down on the street and our ambulances all over the place. Right.


Like when I was in New York during the worst of the pandemic, I was surrounded by sirens and this suddenly, eerily shuttered New York City, like the pandemic was in my face constantly. So there was kind of no way that I would just forget my mask. But then a few months into the pandemic, once we were allowed to travel, I went to Utah to be with my family in an area where there were maybe 100 cases at the time.


And as soon as I got off the plane, I was like, oh, this is an entirely different pandemic experience. Like no sirens, just a few masks, people kind of hanging out. And then within just a few weeks, I would go to the grocery store and I would find myself being like, oh, wait, shoot my mask. I left it in the car and I was constantly having to run back and get it, which would have never happened in New York.


Another obstacle we tend to take what we see in front of us in New York or Utah, and we apply it to everything like it.


We overestimate how much of our personal experience is universal. We mistake the local for the national. This is called the law of small numbers.


We also struggle to grasp large numbers, especially exponential growth. Our brains hear something like there's only 12 cases in town. And the idea that that could be, I don't know, 12000 in just a month is just so wild that it's hard to grasp.


And science says if we do spot a problem, we often suffer from what's called optimism bias, which is the yeah, you know, it's a problem, but it won't happen to me fallacy.


And these aren't usually conscious beliefs. They usually go unspoken and probably unnoticed by us while subconsciously driving our actions somewhere in the back of your head. Something whispers I don't know. I don't see people flooding my local hospital and I'm pretty healthy. Do I really need to wear a mask?


The problem, of course, is that by the time you can see the impact of the virus, you're already in huge trouble.


And as corners of America that we're still untouched by. The virus started getting lectures from urban America where the virus was already raging.


Science says this kind of finger wagging sparked what's called psychological reactance, which is that when people perceive external constraints on their freedom coming from the outside, they are prone to push back against those constraints.


It's sort of like what happens when I don't know, like your sister asks you to wash the dishes and even if you were just about to do them, suddenly not washing the dishes is now the hill you will die on. It's like that. But like for a whole country, except in this case, the sister.


Is anyone on the other side of your own politics. Masks have become this politicized symbol, a way to signal ingroup identity instead of debating the health or the science. For some, it's become a debate over individual rights. A few studies show that while more than three quarters of Americans. Mask wearing the people who resist masks the most sight, personal freedom as their reason.


So if you walk up to someone not wearing a mask and yell at them, which I think a lot of people are feeling like they want to do when they see these folks, that can entrench them even more. Right. That can make them even more resistant to the behavior change. So, you know, I certainly think that's one thing I would suggest that we not do.


So yelling at people or rage, tweeting pictures of people without masks that might be effective at making you feel good about yourself, but it might not be the most effective way to get everyone to put on a mask.


So we asked CNN, does behavioral economics have any suggestions for what we should do when behavioral economist designed nudges to help us act in our own best interest?


There is one big motivator that's particularly powerful, especially when they're trying to get us to act in the best interest of the collective, like wear a mask. Every community has norms in the Amtrak quiet car. It's not talking at the grocery.


It's not removing produce from someone else's shopping cart or like when you're standing in any line, you just don't cut in line.


And if someone gets out of line, we as a society have ways to deal with that.


Other people intervene when people don't abide by the norms, others nail them for it. That that's called third party punishment.


This is Erez Yoeli. He's a behavioral economist at MIT.


And we need that. That's the way that we get good behavior in the first place. It's not a bad thing. That's the thing that's allowing us to thrive and cooperate and be altruistic towards each other. And that's great.


If you think about something like littering, yes, it's illegal, but mostly we don't do it in front of other people because we don't want to look like jerks.


We humans care a lot about our reputations and that social pressure is extremely effective.


We are so sensitive to how we're perceived that studies show if you draw little eyes on a tip jar, people are more likely to tip.


It's actually way more likely, just like little Drona is not realized. But they are watching you and it's enough to remind a person that they consider themselves a good person, one who tips.


But starting a norm is like its own little science. And so to learn how to do that, we are going to take you to a bar at a time when covid did not exist. We present to you the parable of the beer and the bartenders.


So Heineken had a problem. It's an age old problem. It's as old as drinking and cars. People drink, they get in their cars, they drive home.


And alcohol related car crashes kill some 10000 people in the United States every year.


Totally avoidable deaths.


It's not always the driver who was killed or hurt. It's often random strangers who had no part in their choice to drink or not. Yet they pay for it.


So like masks, it is a collective problem that we can only solve by changing individual behavior.


Heineken wanted to nudge people into drinking more responsibly, so they called up Helena Rubenstein, a behavioral science consultant in Cambridge, England, to help.


Helena's first question for Heineken was What do you mean by responsible drinking?


Holly were really, really clear about what they wanted. They wanted people not to have anything at all to drink before they got into a car.


Zero beers. So her job is to get people to go to a bar and drink nothing at all, at least for anyone who is driving.


And this is kind of not the norm in society. But Heineken basically wanted to establish within the micro community of this bar, of this experiment, a sort of new norm.


So Helen has started where all nudges start by meeting people, where they are thinking realistically judgmentally about why people drink and drive in a way is the most critical part of the entire process, because you really want to know what factors caused people to drink and drive and therefore, what can you do to influence those factors that why is the lever you can pull to change behaviour?


Helena searched through the reams of academic data about drinking and driving, and the first obstacle she discovered was just knowledge.


First of all, people don't recognize that even very small amounts of alcohol, blood alcohol concentration can cause impaired driving.


It slows your response times down, but even when people do know the facts, they don't assess those facts very clearly, partly because of that optimism bias. Again, we tend to think data don't apply to specifically us either.


They know the consequences, but they don't think it's ever going to happen to them. So I'm the sort of person who's. I've been driving for 20 years and I'm a safe driver, and we run into that law of small numbers again, that thing where we mistake anecdotes for actual statistics.


There's actually a saying kind of almost a joke, plural of anecdote is not data.


So we get it. That's kind of funny. Thing does turn into a kind of big problem, which is that we've probably all seen a few people drink and drive and get home just fine, which then leads us to conclude, I guess I'm fine, too. I'll have another.


But the most obvious obstacle that Helena saw was peer pressure.


When you're out with friends, people don't set out to drink too much. But, you know, your friends will say, well, you know, why do you have another one? And, you know, you're being a bit of a spoilsport if you don't join in to overcome all of these obstacles of human nature.


Helena's team essentially designed a new bar experience.


So say you're going out for a pint with your mates at one of these 10 pubs in the UK where they ran their pilot experiment.


You walk into the bar and there you see some new signs. They say in this bar, we support not drinking and driving. They're starting to let you know, hey, there's a new norm in town. Then you head to the bar where you see your favorite bartender. You've been best friends forever. He knows all your secrets and he leans in and says, hey, you want some free nachos?


The deal is you can have those nachos if you sign this pledge that you won't drink.


This is from a video they made free nachos. How do we get them to pledge that you aren't going to be drinking tonight? We have different offers for all your friends. Fantastic.


They interviewed some of the bar patrons about the new bar experience.


We we said if you're not going to drink and drive tonight, can you sign this this little card, this simple pledge form? And every time you then you come to get something, you know, you will access these rewards.


Obviously, this is not legally binding, but research shows that just making a person state a commitment feels binding.


And then to reinforce it in some of the bars, when they got pledges, they actually pinned them on the board in the bars so that other people could see. And that got even more pledges.


They're making the norm normal and celebrated. Now it's cool and find not drink. Of course, you wouldn't drink. And if you do drink, your friends eating those free nachos who just helped you pin your pledge to the board are probably going to be like, wait, man, seriously.


And Heineken also has another nudge to help make it not awkward for you to not drink.


We had to make non-alcoholic beverages more easy to see and buy. So not hiding them away under the counter or somewhere at the back, but putting big signs up around the bars and putting things actually on the bottles, it gives someone the confidence to remain alcohol free when they drive and yet still feel included.


The pledge, the nachos, the non-alcoholic drinks, all these nudges add up, but without making you feel coerced or harshing your vibe, what he likes about the whole sort of concept wasn't forcing it down.


You know, it was still your decision. And all of this seemed to work.


What we found was that in the bars that followed the protocols, well, we saw as much as a 50 percent decrease in drinking and driving from one week to the other.


They replicated the experiment in Brazil, Russia, New Zealand, and got basically the same results. The magic of these little nudges helps to mitigate an intractable collective problem.


OK, but can these same kinds of nudges also work magic on mask wearing? After the break, behavioral economists take a crack at it, and so do we. We commissioned our very own Planet Money Wear a mask public service announcement. This message comes from NPR sponsor Microsoft. The world has changed and Microsoft teams is there to help us stay connected. Teams is the safe and secure way to chat, meet, call and collaborate. To learn more, visit Microsoft dotcom teams.


So Grab the Inbox is flooded with newsletter feedback. A good everyone loves you. Oh really? Yes. This week's newsletter is one of the best. I love your newsletter, Greg. It's my favorite out there. Subscribe to our newsletter.


OK, so we decided that we wanted to try our hand at this changing behavior thing. We decided to commission our very own pissers that would encourage the norm of mask wearing. Behavioral economists had been so helpful in teaching us why this norm has been so hard to establish. So we asked if they could also help us figure out how to like, hit, restart and try to communicate this norm effectively from here on out.


First thing they told us, vague norms don't work. You have to make it unambiguous. Errors Yoeli again from MIT.


The answer to the question of whether you are abiding by the norm should always be yes or no, like at the bar.


Like they didn't say what people usually say. Like please don't exceed, I don't know, point 08 blood alcohol level. I mean, like who knows how many beers equals point zero eight. You have to do this elaborate math so people often just revert to I don't know, I feel OK to drive.


Instead in the experiment they asked, did you drink? That is a yes or no question. It's unambiguous, which sounds kind of obvious.


But this is one of the things that got most messed up with masks. At first it was don't wear them. And then it was only and knives work. And then it was, I don't know. Do you have like a ratty T-shirt you could tie to your face?


And then there was mixed messaging about when to wear a mask. Like every time you open your front door or just at the grocery.


Look, we got so many mixed messages and all of that made it hard to know what you should personally do, much less what Norm we should be trying to enforce with other people. Like, should I be mad if you're not wearing a mask in the park?


Seon is working on the norm for his college. He's suggesting, OK, just say if you're not in your dorm, wear a mask. That also helps because it's concise. If you give someone a laundry list, chances are they'll forget it or they'll be like I did like four out of seven. I'm good.


So let's say you've clearly established a norm. That brings us to the second tip. Zern says the messenger matters. Research shows that in times of uncertainty, people lean particularly hard on their social circles.


For information, the messenger should be somebody that the community respects, preferably someone local. And we know this is another tip that also sounds obvious, but it is also something we kind of screwed up in the pandemic. Like, let's say you're in Middle America getting a lecture from New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, probably not very effective. This is serious.


What right do you have to act irresponsibly? And then I have to send an ambulance to pick you up and bring you to an emergency room that's already overburdened because you were reckless and irresponsible. You don't have that right.


Totally great for New Yorkers, less great for, say, Virginia where I am. It just sounds kind of rude here. It's probably going to generate some of that reactance, like thank you for your input to be more effective.


You probably want someone like that bartender like, you know him, you like him. He's definitely not a buzzkill. Like he's basically the governor of that pub.


And for masks, maybe you want the message to come from local doctors and nurses or, I don't know, Betty White to remind people that, all right, old people like my grandparents are at risk or for kids going back to school this fall, maybe Big Bird or you see your face like this is for tip three, kind of related, localized.


The message Zern says take Montana. They put out these pictures of people wearing masks in very Montana ways.


The ad said, we here in Montana wear masks and those pictures of people hunting with their mask on, you know, like the hunting mask that people wear. And then they had pictures of people skiing.


You know, they said when you ski, wear a mask, when you hunt, you wear a mask, essentially saying this is not that different of a of an environment. Right. It's just another scenario where you need to please wear wear a mask.


Lastly, using emotion is very helpful, except when it gets too far, there's a point at which it becomes not so helpful. Like you probably do want to instill some fear of the virus. But research shows that if you make people to make. Shared with no sense that they can actually solve the problem, sometimes they just kind of get paralyzed and don't act.


Same goes for anger and shaming. Some shaming helps reinforce the norm, but too much provokes reactance and resistance.


So make it clear, vocalize the message, deliver it from a trusted messenger and use emotion, but carefully.


Now, those are tips for messaging norms in general. But like we said earlier, this issue has its own special challenges. It's become politicized, tied to identity, rights, freedom.


So we took all of this behavioral economics wisdom and we went out to Times Square to talk to a freedom loving cowboy and the cowboy keeping you brief you on the cowboy. You got to do what you gotta do. Hey, everybody. I'm Robert Burck, better known as the Naked Cowboy. I'm in Times Square. I usually just wear my underwear butat and my guitar, but nowadays I'm wearing a mask. If you put your hand in front of your mouth and talk, you can tell a lot of stuff comes out.


I mean, it's common sense. It helps even if you don't want to wear a mask because you're a big tramp. Sir, I'm a real trumpeter but I still say, come on, it's not a big imposition to wear a mask. You know, people actually are concerned about this. Do for them. Come on. That's what's called crossing the aisle because we're all in this together trumps taking those regulations off the backs of those corporations. Sounds like a good idea to me.


Hey, I'm going to get cut off NPR for this. That was excellent.


Naked Cowboy. We would never cut that off. Thank you.


Did you just write that on the spot? I mean, is that like a is that what he does?


And next, if you are trying to reach people who are motivated by love of family, we are honored to have a word from America's mom, wife of Peter, mother of Stewie and Chris, close personal friend of Frank Sinatra, his friend Brian, and headliner of Family Guy.


Hi, I'm Lois Griffin, proud wife, full time mother and one time mayor of Colac. To what those things are true. Now, I understand that you have been out and about not wearing your mask. Why are you doing seriously? What are you doing? That's the stupidest thing I've ever had. A suit to go with. You ask the sooner this thing will be over and we can get back to business as usual. Now, come on.


If I can do it, you can do it. I got all my kids wearing one, even. Mike, I know this pandemic has made us all feel crazy. We feel alone. We crave human touch. We crave animal touch. Peter misses his chicken fight so much, we bought him a bucket of KFC and we just let him pound it with his fists and then we ate it. Now, come on, wear your mask. Let people live, huh?


Take care of each other. Life is sacred, baby. Let's do this thing. I'm pretty pleased.


I think we're doing good. We have given you all of the tips that we can, and now we want you to go out and make your own pizzas and send them to us. We're Planet Money and we are also on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Tic-Tac at Planet Money.


We also made our very own special tick tock PSA about masks.


Please check that out. Extra special, huge thanks to Kirker Butler, Alex Borstein and Laura Atkinson, also Allison Booton. Hi, I'm Laura Stevens, Pugh's, Tanesha, Stacy Campbell, John Apelt and Nancy Tonguç. Today's show was produced by James Sneyd with help from Autumn Barnes and mixed by Neil Roush. Alex Goldmark is our supervising producer and Brian Orlistat edits the show.


If you like today's episode or our pizza's very proud of them, please send them to your friends. I'm Karen Defen.


And I'm Mary Childs. This is NPR. Thanks for listening. You're welcome. But.