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Potholes and penguins with Barry and Tranby. Hello, and you're very welcome to Pepperwood, Andrew Tranby and Barrie, that's me with Dermot on everything production on sound, producing the goods, and that is a sound as a pound. Coming up, there's a lot to talk about from the Guinness Pro 14. And we'll have former Leinster and Ireland scrumhalf on Red Nine to lend us his experience. And outrageous rugby nerviness. Red cards, yellow cards, disallowed tries were the biggest chat from the games at the weekend, but Will focused largely on the Guinness pro 14 Sammie's coming up next weekend.


The three provinces involved will also be getting to all our penguin correspondents and the return of Penguin of the Week, plus the addition of our part all of the week. And if you were potentially a part of the week for one particular version, because you are causing an awful stir, you devil, or. Yeah, so I sat down to interview McKlusky last week and am I suppose he unveiled a couple of things that we potentially didn't expect. So I thought I was going to be a nice little starter, one on one journalist, you know, could you.


But we're both taking strides into investigative journalism. Where are we taking ourselves quite seriously. Now, let's take it back a peg or two. Right.


Firstly, OK, we did introduce our new Bohner podcast on Thursdays.


And it to be fair, anywhere you go to the that that's true. But it was aptly called the weekly Pottle. So this is our it's either you part or the player or the player paroling us yet to be decided. In Episode one, you sat down with Stuart McClosky and it got a little bit interesting. I want to talk to you about it, because the unexpected turn of events was when you were asking Stu about Stephen Faris, referring to what he said on premier sports about Bondi Acky getting a stew's face.


Right. OK, so I didn't actually we certainly were having a conversation. Yeah. And Stu wanted to voice some concerns about what was being said, that not not that it was accurate or inaccurate, but just that it wasn't it wasn't said or it wasn't directed towards him. So I didn't bring Pharis up here. So I feel like I just wanted to sit down and have a chat and this is something that Stu wanted to wanted, wanted to say.


So I mean he said it didn't happen. Yeah. And then you said it didn't happen.


Sounds like a bigger deal than that was you know I think and you gave to fair you gave Ferris's side of the story or else his perspective in that as a co comes or studio analyst, you have to give balanced rugby opinion, but also you have to make it a little bit entertaining. You're on TV. People, people may I think very few people will switch on and want to get accurate rugby analysis, detailed forensic analysis. I see the vast majority of people that you sit down and watch rugby want to be entertained.


That's what sport is. It's entertainment. And everything that comes with it are on entertainers. And to be fair, Steve does that very, very well.


Um, Stewart had an issue with something he said because he felt like it just wasn't. It was it was about Bondi Key, what he was, how vocal he was and how much of a presence he was. And Faris made and made reference to Bondi saying something specifically to do on the pitch very loudly. Obviously with an empty stadium, everybody can hear everything. And he said it just it didn't happen. So I, uh. So, yeah, I felt like I bounce that a little bit.


I don't feel like I let him down right today. Stu, we are going to slide fair certainly 100 percent not. First is a colleague of mine. We work together or have a lot of respect from I actually genuinely think I wasn't even just saying this for like to be a journalist and to balance things up. I genuinely think what fairness does, he's he's very, very good at his job. He's very good at picking up on things in the game.


And he's very entertaining, which is the point that we were making. Yeah, I think when you hear the interview, he was so engaging straight away because it's something that's never talked about. And Stu's point was that when they when the call comes or the the analysts give their opinion, as you said, it's entertainment. Everyone's listening kind of passively at home. We're all passive fans will listen to it and we'll take it all in. But then the player doesn't get their rebuttal.


So whatever is said is what happened. So the player doesn't get to come out and say, well, actually know that that's not what happened at all. So he was like, it pisses me off and it pisses players off. So you're like, oh, that's interesting. Now, Steve took massive offence. As to that race, that he felt like he felt like the the point in the interview was to undermine him or discredit him, which is I don't feel any any issue or any guilt about that because I sat down to have a conversation with Stu and that's the way the conversation went.


What is your objective going into it to 100 percent, 100 percent?


Well, to be fair, we started talking about Steve as Stu brought him up and I said, let's hit record because, you know, this is interesting content. And I said, let's hit record. And then I am to be fair. And then I said, am I set the scene for the listener as any good professional journalist? Would I set the scene? And I said, Stu and I were having a conversation before I was about Steve.


And I said, Stu, Steve's telling Porcupine's. Is that right? And to be fair, Steve, you don't like that line because he felt like I was I was teeing up to go down that route. But and to be fair, maybe maybe I shouldn't have maybe I shouldn't have said that. But now Porcupine is not exactly a hard hitting journalistic remark, is there? Because when you watch the match Monster vs. Connacht Bundy, he is doing that to everyone getting in everyone's face and as a monster fan is starting to piss me off.


But if he's doing it in a green jersey fashion and I'm like, yes, OK, so there's no smoke without fire.


Like I he was doing that, I'm sure in the odds the game may have not done it. To do so. Steve may have perceived that he had, but he hadn't. And because maybe on the sideline or whatever you think he's aiming at, somebody might have been aiming at him. So is it maybe, Stu, getting upset over stuff that Steve has said in the past and has Steve? You know, he's been very critical of us there over the last, you know, since he retired.


Really? And and when you were captain of Alster, he probably was having a go at it as well. So is there a lot of kind of water under the bridge here that that it's it's that is rising up now? Potentially. Potentially. And I think Steve and I, we've we've had words in the past.


We get on great. And and, you know, obviously we work together in a premier sport. And I play with Steve for a year. We played under 20 once together. We have a lot of history and we get on great. I would have had a couple of issues with what he said whenever I was captain, and I thought he would have just kind of maybe again, maybe just discredited our approach or our mindset whenever we're trying to run in the yards.


And he talked about us having no heart, no pride, no passion. And I was captain of that side.


And I sort of thought that was a little bit of an oversimplification of of our of how deep we had to dig to try and compete with Leinster away from home. It doesn't just come down to not wanting it enough. So that was my issue there. And I can really speak to Steve for a while. And then I start I realized this is stupid. He's he's just doing his job. I'm trying to do my job. And we've we've known each other for too long to let this be something where we don't end up talking.


So I give Steve shows like, listen, we've been friends for too long, let's get a coffee and we've got a coffee. And we both drew a line under it. And I think that's the thing about Steve. He's a real straight talker. He'll say what he thinks, but also he's happy to accept if someone else says what they think. So I said what I thought and he's like, that's fine. I don't agree. But let's just let's just put a line under it and move on, which is great.


It's a nice way to be. And I think a lot of trouble would be the same. But maybe because of that background, then Steve might have been a little bit more upset. But we just kind of give context as well. Last week before this even happened, we talked about getting Steve on. We said Steve would be a brilliant addition to what we're trying to do here because he's a straight talker. He says it, he says as he sees it.


And if he came in here and threw a couple opinions right now would get a decent conversation going. So I said that to Steve. I give him the heads up that that was going out the mcclosky interview. And I said, listen, I be to get you on. He declined again. Journalistic design. We approached Stephen Faris for comment, but he declined no comment.


So, yeah, this is I don't want this to be built into a big thing, which is probably what we're doing here, actually talking about it quite a bit. But go back and listen to that episode. Um, I don't I don't feel like I led straight into said anything derogatory or discrediting about Steve. In fact, I thought he balanced it and presented Steve's perspective quite well. Yeah, no, I think it did. It did as well.


Having said that, Steve's within his rights to, um, to if he felt like he's been wronged or something that's been put out there, that is incorrect. He's within his rights to to argue that. Yeah. And you don't hear players are probably told to keep their mouths shut on a lot of stuff. And it's hard in the media to because it will be sensationalized by. By most media outlets, let's take that and make a headline of it or something like that, whereas it's it's it shouldn't be that should be just pretty simple.


As you said, two grown men, two lads who are strongly opinionated and as a lot of rugby players there should be allowed to have their opinions. But he did do did actually make some some good points about how we've discussed this in the past as well. Pundits and commentators and columns, they can they can paint the picture and the viewer at home is watching exactly what the commentators watching. But if they say something, everybody believes it straightaway. Yeah.


And it's it's a position where you can impact someone's career and selection. And there are a lot of responsibility comes with that. I feel that way. It actually whenever I'm doing cool columns and I know how difficult that is and I miss stuff and I know I'm always very careful about what I say. Yeah, it is hard because you've seen all these players all the time. You're predominantly talking about Alster all the time to meet all these lads. And you don't you're not going to want to make it personal or slaid them.


So and I feel that doing this like Chase, I don't want to say anything, kind of be overly critical because you could walk into these lads every day of the week and we've all been there. But you have to, I suppose, give an honest opinion as well. Have you had any feedback from any rugby players of the background? We've said on this show? No, I don't I don't know. No, I don't think so. Maybe a block or two?


No, no, I haven't. It's all been very positive. I like I said last week, I'm so terrified of pot calling them every man I met every single month, the rugby player yesterday, I reckon I just bumped into all of them when Castro was out walking the twins. And I went for a coffee and I went to the shop to go to buy groceries. And I met them all and they were all very complimentary.


Murray asked me a Graeme Rowntree came up to me the other day and asked and asked him what parts a penguin know what I like about the things that have had to have for grey trees as contrary to what the penguin. I was never so proud in my entire life we've landed here. I was like, what did you tell him? Because I didn't know whether it was derogatory or compliment. And he was there is drugs was like know. So here we are.


It's it's a bit as again, it's the paradox. All the potholes were all penguins. A penguin is probably a lovely thing to us. Could be a pothole somewhere else.


So, yeah, it's we do always enter in a little bit of philosophy whenever we try and describe potholes and penguins and how they and I actually have the origin of pothole where it came from that I'm going to tell you later on the wow. Part three. Yeah.


And I think our Penguin of the week is going to be the person who provided me with this information. OK, well, there's the loophole of selling it forward, selling for it to me. You're going to stick around.


That was a heavy start.


Yeah. Yeah. Um, do check out that Boehner episode and subscribe and like and leave a comment because for some reason that makes a difference. So even if your car is a pack of girls, I don't care when I just leave leave the comment. Actually, that brings me on to George the the George Clancy, the referee from the Alster. Why would they play Leinster MASCIA tonight? He's still a limerick. He's a pure limerick accent. It sounds like it sounds like Blind Boys is commentating on the match with his comments.


But I keep expecting him to be like, that's a Muleshoe lovely girl. The puzzle's down world. So does hilarious names that blind boy comes up with down in the world and probably runs Peter Flood really three times where they treat us as a real person.


Liam Flag. Yeah, that's the yellow card for you. Liam Flag, you absolute bastard.


And I love what is driving actually will get into his decision on Kewney three when we get red on. But I think will we go for Tremblay's silly little piece to lighten the mood. Delete it not it's probably silly, silly little monster rugby or a team bursting with scholars.


CJ Stander, JJ Hanrahan and J.K. Rowling, to name a few with the tragic loss of ECLSS name and last week Monster are now considering signing J.R. talking for short term cover.


Additionally, monsters have adopted a literary emphasis this season and a wider context. On game day, Stephen Hawking kicks off the pregame, warm up with the soliloquy and line item box are packed with alliteration. Anonymous to the entire squad have adapted to this new approach, but in a way that suits the individual. David Kilcoyne, for example, prefers the Bino, whereas he enjoys. That's not my puppy. His balls are too fluffy.


But at Monster Rugby, there's something for everyone.


Oh, very good. Yes, ECLSS Nayman didn't even need to do that. You could just got Orji Steinmann ok. Words that would have gone out or just because that's the same, same idea. Who did you have in there. William F. Scott Fitzgerald as well.


Yes, I changed that. I thought J.K. Rowling was more mainstream. Yeah. But you know I did ECLSS Nimon because he's done. Oh I know, I know. But you didn't. You could have just called him his name and it would have been. So did you don't when did this dawn upon you and on these literary names and want to change my name now. Yeah. How much more serious do you sign. What's your middle name. Uh, John I think there for a second.


B.J., you're the exception. Not have the same ring to it. So the publisher would be like, well, just go with Barry Bayani, Dave Kilcoyne reading The Bino it daffner.


He's been on the force. Ozzy, what was that? But, um, Ozzy enjoys that's not my pappy has pulled it off. And about the twins, they read that and and every time he gets to the end, like, his paws are too stripey and she knows exactly where to Rob.


So when Mick three and he's just chewed on the side of the book, I wonder, what are these somewhere in between that makes walking, though, is what it's all about, walking out that she's reedman going to be glad.


And what's his them? Stephen Larkham soliloquy. Skol Skol in hand at the top of the two to die. Knobler of the mind inside a Slave. Laramore Night to slaves. But Chadds the dream, whether it is foskett nobler in the mind to suffer. You can't go back and slings it.


Er I had to google how to pronounce soliloquy so that's how much work that took. That makes me sound quite articulate.


I was far from out of that vision to sleep perchance fucking dream.


And there's one more. I'm not a pair. So he said onomatopoeia.


Are they the creatures from Avatar. So they were the moulins know. I believe onomatopoeia is whenever the sign sounds like the word. Oh is that right Dami. Yeah. Yeah. So I think Koff might be cock sounds like ok. I think. I think Lemi. No, I don't think so, boys. I always thought they always sounded like, yeah, dad, cough. What else do you got? Yeah, sneeze sneezes. I don't know about you.


Penguins, please get in touch and correct all of our mistakes.


That was really good. I enjoyed that, as did I. I rehearsed it about these fellows earlier, and I was sitting in the car for 20 minutes outside the studio, and I rehearsed it about 20 times and every time pissed myself.


That's a good sign. OK, we are a shout out to the main studio in Dublin who are providing us with a studio space. And that's why it sounds so beautiful in your ears. You sound sexier than everybody. Yeah, very famous U.S. sexy. Do you deal pouring into your house. Thank you to Christy and Phil and all the guys here for allowing us to do this.


But look, will we get on red and on the phone to chat? All things rugby's such a nerd when it comes to this stuff. I know he's going to have something that none of us have thought about with all his experience that he has. So quick break and get on and on the phone stuff.


Well, we to April 14 and brought to dissect and a semi-final to look forward to next week and Lanser versus Monster in Edinburgh versus Ulster. Who better to help us than one of Ireland's most experienced rugby players of all time with over 400 professional rugby matters under his belt? Redser, you've more programs than I have leaving cert points, which wouldn't be hard to be fair.


That's what you've got to learn, how we deal.


Good. Very good. Very, very good. Good. Did you watch all the rugby the weekend ideas anyway was coming on. So I have to prepare myself for so far.


Was that the weirdest game? Rugby was the first contact you've seen in a while.


Yeah, it's kind of you know, it sounds like I don't seem to have serious fears long. Don't you mean even even even been down there. And it was just like, oh, they seem to have something going on there where people are just putting their lives on the line all the way to the end. You know, it was a that's a good inspective.


That's a good positive prospect. Yeah, I but I couldn't I honestly couldn't believe it's like I think of some of the, you know, things that haven't played so well, maybe that says that they were given the chance. They also couldn't get over how strong they looked, you know, with 14 changes, you know, for the first half an hour. Actually, the reason for doing now that they actually stuck in there and were kind of coming back into it.


And, you know, we'll probably given wants to do us what, you know, people at home wanted, which was, you know, you could see they desperately wanted us. And just around when the first Reichian happened, it was it was a proper fight, you know, it was a proper physical challenge. It was proper. They were properly hearting by the scoreline and wanted to make it into a real classic monster. We don't want to be kind of I thought it was heading that way also.


And then it kind of went with the drop off and. You know, like, you know, with and blades tackle and there and near the end, and it's just little things like that, I just thought they didn't seem to have a serious fight in them for each other at the moment. And what it was was pretty evident today. And I think that new signing to see if you can keep there is hope out of it. It would be serious signing, like he puts it, did some serious damage to, you know, what about the two red cards, Retzer there.


But you're thrown the first one.


I look, I couldn't really tell you kind of think that we're is looking at a screen bigger than you. And I'm assuming he makes contact with the head. So, I mean, just right. Right. And a second to me to straight out of the line, I don't think you can argue part of me was dying inside because I knew the match was it was over. But I thought Frank made the right call. I thought on other occasions, you know, I think some of it, you know, some of the way the game is going, I mean, is it going to be easier to keep the ball and get through phases of the refereeing settles down?


I mean, it does appear that I would say you can get quicker ball and you can keep ball for longer. And there were very heavy players in that role and away from tackles, which is great. And I think, you know, I think Frank was very tough on kind, but I thought that was a good thing. I think I mean, tonight, if you're not role in a way, you know, even if the punches in good position, he's not getting the penalty.


And I think that's right. And maybe maybe that also for me personally, short of one or two problems Monster has in terms of getting through more than five or six aces, if at the end they're against 13, man, they were kind of playing three or four and kicking the ball. And they don't seem to have, you know, a circular kind of game plan like, say, an extra lensed or, you know, I don't know.


A lot of analysts are to say they have it or don't have it, kind of seem to have them where they could play 20 saves. They all know what they're doing. For those trying to say they have a shape, they have a you know, and it's on it and then they know what they're doing when they get their torchlight, they know what to do when they're in the middle. And, you know, the way the game is going, you know, maybe speed or rock.


And that ability to keep a tight end goal for that amount of time is actually got to be important. It's hard to say. I mean, I think in in New Zealand, the, you know, the penalty count didn't seem to drop that much. You know, maybe they're all still put the line in the sand. But my feeling was that you don't need to have to play will be next weekend and the weekend after to win win win the pro fourteenth, I think.


Yeah. You think it's a little bit too optimistic of us to think. Right. A couple of weeks into it. That's all the penalties out of the way. Everybody will have wised up and we'll get to see some decent rugby with none of the kind of newness that comes with the new interpretations and the new start of the season, because ultimately the both game for a meaningless the Leinster Ulster Unchosen, it really monster only needed two points. They were effectively warm ups to get used to the laws and the knockout stage.


Yeah, I think the referees here are being harder on the Takura not rolling away and the referees in the southern hemisphere were being very hard on, you know, not on the ground. The first clean as being straight rubs on for one for coming in the side. And I think for one or two today, like flopping on the ball that got away with murder actually for that as well. So I think I think the referees off here are seem to be more inclined to favor this action to referee the defending team a bit more.


And if they do that, I think you'll see a bit. You'll see good. Look, the maybe the fact that it is semifinals, the finals, you know, maybe the rest will all go to assessors this week. And this will all have to choose that. The union will have to decide what they want referee next week and property that they can't they can't tell the ref to work on things. They'll pick one thing so they to be told to work on, you know, Whittaker's entering the rocks.


Should they'd be told to toughen up even further on defenders not rolling away. And hopefully the defending team, I think, will be positive for us watching.


Yeah, for the for the game, the amount of penalties that were given away. It was the communication there. But, you know, if you go into a big international, there's a lot of chatter between about the communication between a referee and the captain and how that gets back to the team. But then it seems to be less cautious about that when it comes to like run of the mill pro fourteen games or group games in the cup. Um, so do you think that was obvious today?


Because they just seem to have no lessons learned for that for twenty years.


Yeah, I just think you the difference, you know, in the international like year difference because a different energy, you know, and and when, when you've got everything to look to be disciplined, like, you know, there's often one a one like if you're if you're kind of off, if you're if you're line on the right side for six. Like, you know, you're in sort of a serious sort of time and you're kind of almost prevent that happening, people are bouncing out of the way, rolling out of the way.


They all know the referees are. So they're all they've all got so much work on in the other week on how they play and how they play already in their top it on referee kind of knowledge. And they all know what the referees like and don't like. And then you get back, you know, into this week. And so Oldster broken up like all that and wants to have one training session this week. I mean, do you think and the organization wants to have this week they're going to talk about the referee.


I mean, they probably give the 15 seconds. I mean, like, so where is the referee?


Still is doing a massive amount of homework and probably more so now because of the rule changes. So they're going to be extra scrupulous scrutinizing the breakdown and players potentially that a bit more lenient?


Yeah, I think like the communication. I mean, like it's like, get out of there. It's too late these days. I mean, like you should be not there. Like, that's just someone, you know. And then if you're in the side, that's it. That's an instantaneous penalty as well. It's not like that. You're kind of like the referee. Change it to get around. You know, I think the referee referees kind of talk the way out of penalties is, you know, maybe when maybe I think I think is a valid excuse when it gets to like seven, eight, nine, ten, everyone's wrecked.


And and, you know, people are struggling and the ref is going to talk and people on the run. That's a good refereeing by law. And, you know, he regularly has failed to play three, four minutes, you know what I mean? Whereas with the new rules, no, I think people are being a bit more referees, penalized teams quicker. And I don't think really the time to be a player. If I was a cold to be saying, like, you know, we can't expect to hear anything.


The ref, you just shouldn't be doing this. Don't do it, you know, and now it's typical now. I mean, it's difficult to be that harsh now, but I think that is really the way to approach it. If you want to win the trophy, you need to be kind of ruthless with your players in terms of, you know, you're not going to be back in the mob scene or the ref was wrong. Like, that's not really going to do you any good afterwards, is it?


So I think you need to be quite firm on how important this thing is now, the next few weeks. Yeah, OK.


There was a few there was quite a few penalties given away the weekend that regardless of the new interpretation or the new emphasis for the referees, for from the referees perspective, there were some penalties that were just stupid regardless. Also give away a lot of penalties as well. Let's get into that. First of all, do you think potentially some of this might not be actually down to the new interpretation? It's just guys getting just played rugby in five months, just getting used to it again.


Yeah. Doctors more generally about Leinster.


Elster Yeah. So I think it is I think it retires. They're not as fit as they were. And like you mentally, you know, you're not as you're kind of not as an explorer. And I guess certain things that you get into a rhythm that you get pretty out as a player, you know, that might even be not totally the rest. It sounds ridiculous, but like one of the things that people get better at and yes, like penalties are very stop, start and end of the game.


I do it again. Like, I just, you know, the standard of play that Leinster brought with that many changes was just, you know, they took all their points. And if they didn't, they could have been a very different game. I think, given they had their their, you know, a lot of young people playing, they probably took more points and that normally go into the corner. So like it's like sixteen now instead of thirty instead of twenty five.


You know, I think it's also then started to lock themselves a a bit and get back into it. But they don't seem to be in the form they were they were at. And I suppose we're all sort of challenges that I think, you know, some of their some of their wins and their form was built around one or two players extremely well. I think it's important because, you know, you have a collective collective kind of hitting the ground running now.


And I think maybe they haven't quite hit that. Hit that. Yes. You know, now, you know, the interesting thing, the team that they put out next week and they have everyone together and, you know, we've talked about this. I don't know if you heard anything else, but he's probably pretty important now given given what they have left. So I think the game was, I think, the answer of how to be much happier, trembly.


I think, you know, it's just it's just a joke, really, to bring the 14 changes, you know, and like, you know, for all the way, I look pretty, pretty good. And I'd like to be able to give a guy that game without that much pressure and that, you know, it's all kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, you know, and they seem to be dealing with it quite well, you know, so it's not good news for everybody else.


Borsellino Another deeper reason, there are deeper reasons. Harder is getting through problems is just can't compete with the I, which is a probably bigger conversation. But there you go.


Yeah, but I think you're right, though, but Ulster and Liam Tollan alluded to this in his commentary. He said, what would you do if they didn't have Markazi or St McClosky. Mm. Yeah. Well you have to revamp the whole game although. Well was. Simple for Leinster from their perspective, as you know, anticipating the obvious from Özer, which was could see a mcclosky and you'll send with Connors after him and he stops know, he stops that they go for the ball.


And that was seem to be all on the ad really wasn't it. But we're kilometres.


Yeah, well I was given my, you know, given my phenomenal reputation for job taking and that's why we've got you on my, my, my or my my, you know, not for a while to try. And I can tell you that much like, you know, I was like when they saw the carnage last night, actually, that we saw them, that I was like this.


I'm trying to tell you what I did. I made for them to kill you.


So when you asked me how to tackle this, basically how you do it and no regard for your body or your technique is pretty phenomenal. You know, it is.


I mean, it's you know, you don't make down any type of this if if if it's if every one of them is a wrestler, you know, you just don't do it. I mean, I think he's and I remember in saying last year downturn partly because. Well, he's just very, very. But you're right. I mean, the defense is very good. You know, these days. I heard I heard Jacobs talk on the week about standing on the wing and defend him from back.


And he was saying he was really hard to win because sometimes you've got to cover rockets and then they've got to call it back. And a bit me, you know, foreign sales, because the ANC wingers don't have that problem. They defend, OK? And that's their job and that's it. And I think, you know, there's still I'm not sure where I at the moment, but they like asking winners these days to be, you know, and then and strategic plans to get to the end of that European competition.


The winners don't have much decisions to make. They have to make that in front of them. And the fullbacks and the school mouths are actually covering the back seat as it was a game. And, you know, that is an issue as well. I think it also makes you very, very strong defensively and regardless of who they put out, because it's not that you've got a brilliant winger, they can see what you can read even at the back and do all of these things that you can do.


But you've actually got a pretty simple job that even when he was playing the young guy who comes in, it's just a simple job in front of me. And he doesn't maybe he missed the magic to this and he would have. But he can still do that, you know, get off, stay square and hit somebody, you know, and I think that's a real strength.


And stripped of all the other problems to this sounds just like an old conversation that we would have had. A cotton house you can play in. And I've got to watch. I'm a player to go wherever the backfield.


Yeah, but I mean, it's ridiculous that, you know, how many years on, you know, it's still it's still happening, you know, and and and I can say, like, you know, without I mean, it's twenty twenty now. I was in Washington twenty two thousand and four and played and like and you know, the wingers in Wales in 2004 when John Edwards was coaching, all they had to do was tackle what was it, you know, and I get an extra amount of work to do that.


I would it wouldn't have to do with Ireland. And that was about getting back and having the fullback and and, you know, six years down here and and certain teams around the world are doing it like Wales and England, New Zealand, even maybe not to the same extent. But you can see things like that. It's up in Europe. Those at the top of the world have all adopted that philosophy. And Sean, you know, going to France, you know, and he'll change in who they're picking on the wing like, you know, Teddy, come on and get drunk.


And he's in the center and they're kind of members there, you know, near the end of last season. Yeah. I mean, you know, which was just a phenomenal thing to do. Like, you know, he's not exactly on the ball over his head. It doesn't matter when you're playing when you're trying to play Chandos because that's not your job. So, you know, I think Lenzer have that and they were able to kind of pick you up, roll that out and tackle koozie and mcclosky and kind of stuff.


Ultrasaurus, you know, sort of be a tough, tough few weeks. Yeah.


You you you mentioned, though, your time at WASPs. Obviously, you got brought into the the Ireland set up when you were at WASPs might have been to those and then six you were brought in as a masseur initially. Is that right?


That's right, yeah. Loukia Newcrest didn't have enough free booze and lots of fans, but he wanted to perform as well.


So we thought that was something we're we have we do a bit of.


Yeah, yeah. OK with you for leave. Yeah he did.


He was OK when I got to answer. That's no Lukie. But we did play against each other a few times after that, which is quite interesting.


I did have a I did and I did quite enjoy remembering that the game that we were playing the last time I did this actually reminds me of when you went to laughs.


I remember hearing how many games you were playing a year was what? Thirty five. At least, yeah, it was a joke. Obviously, you you developed massively in those few years paying that amount of games and it has it stood to you, I'm sure, for years to come about what you achieved and how much you've succeeded. So what what's your thoughts that will be gone too far with protecting players there? People there is getting enough games.


Yeah, I mean, when I say it was a joke, then I thought, yeah, you're right. I was kind of in part I thought I had never played that many games. But you're right. I think in certain positions and at a certain time in your career, like you need to play much faster than Scrumhalf is you know, it's a low impact position. It's you need to be playing and making decisions. And and it actually is very helpful.


Like, it's great. I mean, I don't think you can play too much, to be honest. I mean, I don't Leinster very much, much harder to build my form or to actually try to push into Ireland because I felt that for my whole career. And sure. You know, even if you were playing well, you'd you'd take a step back and let someone else play. You know, you can see that that's better for the team.


And that's actually the most important thing, because if you're if you're in the game to win trophies, medals, which ultimately I was, that's what you need. You know, like I it didn't really matter to me. You was getting, you know, picked every week or who was anything like I wasn't playing in a team that won those trophies for sure. But I mean, it wasn't like getting picked every week and not winning trophies would be I would consider this a bit of a disaster.


So I think all of the team on the squad and, you know, finding your way and personally dealing with that and hanging on to form, finding other ways to it forms definitely a challenge and not the ideal way. But it's great for a group is a bit different in that, you know, everyone just pissed off and played. And that was the squad wasn't very big. And and at the time of my career, at the age I was probably probably find that like I did end up with, you know, to two of the more significant injuries, like I had a broken leg with last year.


I was just a complete like not a repetitive strain injury, but the only other two groin issue, which is quite common, Barrie. I think you had it as well.


You. I did. And I remember you calling me about it. And I think I told you I asked you what car you had and you think I've got to fix that. And I was like, you still have that fucking ninety six fiester. You drove it from Limerick to London. I was a teenager with my wife. You were like, yeah, whatever.


And you know, I do like to use the car I did like and then and it was actually different even with conservatives and like Greens license. And he was like, I remember telling them that I was you know, I remember now you telling me to do that. And I was like, oh, you know, and like he was just like, you know, basically ringing people fire me shouting at me to buy this love.


Yeah. So I ended up buying a car like a jeep, actually. So I was nice and high, which is the opposite of what you were saying.


No, it wasn't. That's what I was. Then it was that you. Yeah. You're not. You were saying. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I went for it. How you could possibly be. Yeah. It was exactly what you were saying. But I mean you do get out of it. Yes.


That's what I mean, to look after the doctor. But yeah, I had to go and get surgery and to rehab, which didn't work in my opinion anyway. But anyway, eventually it is it came out anyway. No one ever rang about it afterwards. I was just like to get surgery. Now, does all this get surgery now? There are three. But also I'm just going to get them to do something because that's the thing to work for everybody.


But I'm sure they've got a little bit like that happened because I was playing so much and I said to myself, but I do think look, I do think this from that particular like I'm watching the Dow, you know, and it's like we have actually loads of good ones. But how are they going to how are they going to play, you know, Aquarians out last week playing Farmer, you know, like Lou McGrath. Lasley Crankcase comes out and goes, well, James Sensenbrenner, I think it was like, I can't really, really got you know, you just got players and how do they play and when do they play, you know, and how does it get better, cleaner, like Connor was was was better this week and last week than he has been.


But like, how is he going to run form, you know, even you know, it'll be you get to play, you know, next week, which is even playing those three weeks in a row, is probably unusual for him. That would be good for him. But I mean, fiscal matters in our lives, it's pretty difficult. And I think, you know, when you look at Johnny actually thinking of it, it's probably something that's pretty like he's always been able to just turn it on, which I think is is pretty special thing to be able to do.


You know, it's not it's not easy to keep you informed through all that.


What I'm playing, you know, I'm look forward to the weekend and back to what you were saying earlier on about Monster. I think you said not potentially not being able to play that circular. James, what, 24 hours together, how do you think they'll manage Leinster again, they did put it up to them last week, but what did you what do you think they need to do, you know, or anyone?


Yeah, I think they have to be landser.


Yeah. And I could be wrong. I mean, they may have it and not just show it, but it's only been two weeks. I've been out for six months. Think it's very odd that I want to just it's a very quick snapshot, you know, and I'm trying to I'm trying to build in the new rules into this and try to use them to see where it's got to go. I think, you know, I think that there's been a huge signing.


I think his work I've got to go was kind of looking forward to his carries and stuff like his defense has been saying. You know, I think what I'd like from Monster is going to Carl's down to 13 mentally, like they seem to play with a bit more. They kind of got bigger or seemed a bit more concerned or a bit more conviction, a conviction of what they were doing. They were like players were tough and quick task. They were working hard.


They were I just thought you put it like that's kind of works for me, you know? You know, it is like this constant pressure on them to deliver. And there, you know, and the pressure is probably like a little bit, you know, like pressure on to win European Cups and, you know, and then is that actually realistic? If these guys are going where European Cup, it should be more of the kind of guy.


Would it be cheaper to the bulls? You should be doing it. I mean, just given the given the story over the last four or five years, it would be an amazing thing. So, you know, I think that they've kind of got caught in the middle of nowhere where they haven't performed at a massive height that people expect them to be. But they are performing well, but they just don't have that confidence or condition in, you know, in that they are going well.


And I think maybe his workforce back in the middle of the game can give them that, you know, belief, you know, which they just didn't have. I mean, like, you know, fire is a big man. Wouldn't have been as regular as that. All of a sudden they landed in that two or three times than once and they was like four or five in the game.


And yeah, I think he's impactful in every part of the game. No matter what he's doing, he's making an impact and he's kind of selfless as well. But he's doing so. He gave me the trophy today and. Yeah, and yeah, I completely agree. That's one of the things I'd written down today. I thought I was a bit patronising. Yeah. Yeah he was but and he's a team player.


Me is you know, I think as far as he has got his is, you know, his eyes set on being a world class player. Right. And like you talked about the advantage of bringing in somebody into your environment and then like finally, you know, get him out of the match last week, which I'm sure he's a lightweight. But like he will also go back and watch what these guys do.


And you do it as well, you know, and I think it's more like he's that is what he produced.


I think what he produced those tackles, the one you it would set him apart from what I could see over the last two weeks or other people. So it's something that the players around him will be like, oh, my gosh, that's just what we can all live for now and go after. And it's it's I think they're going to need a lot of that next week. You know, I think they need to be incredibly disciplined, which is how exactly the rules need to be incredibly abrasive, that I think they need a bit of they need a bit of like, you know, no fear.


You know, like if you're playing Leinster in the event semifinal, like you have nothing to lose, you really don't like and it should be months. You should have that feeling of, you know, let's go for this and and not have any kind of worry about what's there to worry about, you know. But I think, you know, it feels to me that's a bit of a pressure cooker, you know, always for the last year or two that they need to break through or break out of the maybe maybe this is a good time to do it.


Now, if you go to a few games on the run, if you knew site well type and came back, you know, and I got like the match played really well, maybe all police firing and, you know, you hope that they kind of go there and have everyone has a storm or, you know, that's kind of the the whole that that you'd have for them going to Leinster. But I think, like Leicester will be very hard to beat.


I think, you know, they look incredibly well oiled, maybe a weakness for them that they didn't play more people again this week. Maybe that's going to be maybe their monster. The more conditioned, you know, the more you see the new rules. Who knows? Maybe that's something that narrows the gap.


And it'll probably be a bit of a balance with the five day turnaround from Monster. And then, as you said, the likes of Sexton and quite a few more of them be able to turn it on when they want. So, yeah, look, it's it's makes for a very interesting week and common and reds are from office. Thanks again for joining us.


We're going to be extremely rude. Any are you doing any punditry next weekend? I am, yes.


For her, um, for for a premier sport, for the all star game. All right.


So maybe you I heard you there, Charles Stewart, both poor old Pandits, if not to say for that, we have to make stuff up.


Have you decided say yeah. I'll be telling a few tall tales and Saturday, oh, what happened, what happened, did Ferris just make something up? The fact that Bill Gates got the whole point.


So that's that's what. Well, that's what Stu says. He says that, yeah, that that that didn't happen. And Ferris, um, was was upset that he felt like we were undermining his credibility, that he said Ferris says it did happen. Stu says it didn't happen. And I don't really know.


Does it matter? Like, does it matter? I wonder, you know, I mean, if that is the case. Kind of my point.


It doesn't really matter whether Bondy stood up and said it specifically or mcclosky or said, but as far as you know, and it's only got fans on speed dial and he's, you know, picking the team based on what he says to to be relaxed.


And also, although I do I do think I do think in a really subtle way, pundits and commentators do influence ultimately. I do think they ultimately influence election season. So I do I think it seems very far fetched for lunacy for pharisaical. Obviously that won't happen.


But I do think they can change the impression of a performance generally out there in the in the the community sounds like sounds like a virus spread amongst amongst rugby supporters who here who say, do you want out or are you on the other side like when you were playing or, you know, I got my foot in each camp.


I'm very balanced as any good journalist. As Redser.


Yeah, you know, it's interesting. It's interesting because, I mean, you know, when you do the commentaries, I think you're getting paid for your time and time, that you're getting paid for your needs, I think. And a little bit, you know, it's kind of like, yeah, that's interesting.


It's almost like sacrificing or compromising some relationships. Yeah.


And you might know you're doing this, you know, and it depends on how you do it, how regular you do it. But, you know, you like can you commentate on almost every week and still meet, you know, your major coffee, who's playing for them every week, you know, and and are you under pressure to kind of say banteng? I don't know. I don't know. Like, it doesn't get to that. We do it like that.


You're actually going to say something interesting here. You can see that from producers to actually does that actually happen?


Uh, I don't think it I don't think they actually say we want something more. Um, we want something more. I don't know, um, more extreme from you, but I do think you'll feel like you're doing a better job if you're saying something that's more compelling. And what's not compelling is saying, oh, he did OK, he'll be disappointed with that there. And sure, it's very difficult to have. He's just saying not that I think that is honestly, I think that is generally what I do because, um, I suppose the way around it is to try and do more homework and give it more thought and try to like introduce a more interesting angle.


Um, as reds are, to be fair, you would do exactly that. And that's that's the easy way to get to get around having to be critical. And I'd just say that's not acceptable, I think. Yeah.


Yeah, it's not I think it's hard when you're finished. Isn't that because like so many people so quick to judge on each side. But it's difficult, you know, I mean, people, people like er making a living at it as well as you know, I mean, it's not easy. I don't think it's easy when you look at it. But I do I do think when it does start to get to a point where they're hurting people's careers, I think it almost feels like it's a line across from me, you know, especially on coaches.


You know, I think that's real. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's it's difficult for anybody to take us seriously whenever our podcast is called Potholes and Penguin. And I think that tends to get me off the hook a little bit.


Yeah. Yeah, I think you're OK. Yeah, right. I have to read there.


Might know the origin of potholes. You know where that came from. Redser.


Jesus. Well. As then, like you said at first, yeah, you know, you played with this guy, Jason Hollanders. No, I'm not going to tell you.


You'll have to tune into the whole episode. I'm going to play it in there somewhere so you can have.


I can tell you now. I'll never know.


You'll have to hit. You lost 30 seconds because I know there's no way I'm listening.


That's been a low part. It's been this. So. Well, I'll text it if you don't listen anyway, you big pothole.


Thanks for joining us. You have been potholed to the cheers, Redser. We'll be in touch over the next few weeks. Will definitely get you on in and around the the the the final or maybe some of the technical matters as well. Yeah.


It's going to be great to get everything is on its plate as well. Yeah. Given everything. Thanks very much my great. Great. OK, welcome back to Part three.


And that was of course you before these red red wine bringing a sense into part three. The reason we picked that is because that's what Red is theme tune is now. It's called Red Red Wine. So every time we get reds on, it's going to be on here whining about why rugby isn't the way it used to be or something like that. So that's his new theme tune. Thank you. All right.


Penguin correspondence. Dermot Sheedy hit us up.


Any questions for us this week on Penguin Correspondence? I have a question, number one, and this is from Dempsey. Cohen, as an All-Star fan, do you think we can get our mojo back in time for Saturday? Do you think it's all been a big ruse by Dan Questionmark?


Do I make you horny, baby? Randy, is that were there other other. Yeah, they guessed I've lost my manager. Oh yes.


I suppose to get horny I think also just get Will Addison.


Oh I'm walking around in a pair of Speedos and that is fucking get you a more longer term model where I can be fired up.


Yeah. I think you should start and only fanpage. Hmm. I subscribe just him out in a field. A pair of budgie smugglers do overs are two favorite things Fields' deal with. And over the a 13 month Ron Skip passes soaring or gliding a beautiful over's.


Oh God. You stop there at dusk, the sun is setting and I'm just in the corner smoking a fake.


So called into question too. Should Leinster be banned from playing rugby too good. I think so.


Stupid, sexy Leinster. Yes. Next question. Brian Gorie asks Should Claitor have been sent off for late tackle? Anglade didn't, did you?


I did. And I think no, it was late, but it was. There wasn't. Hi. So leave muf you know what he's doing. That was one of those ones. Oh I couldn't pull out you know.


Well if you could pull out OK he um was there anything specifically on in diameter.


There was something here about some um and there was no attempt to disguise it as any kind of rugby. No interpretation. It's the most wonderful message we've got. Yes. There is it. Yeah. So it was a fact. It was so strange and factors.


The human anus can stretch up to seven inches before taking damage. A raccoon can squeeze into holes as tight as four inches, meaning you can take almost two full racoons up.


You're almost two raccoons. I wonder if anyone has tried. Tried is another that came to quarters of just one side, maybe like a baby raccoon or a couple twins that came in.


Thank you, mother. Raccoon. And it's twins. Thank you, Armitage, for this wonderful post on our Facebook wall. The fuck I wouldn't be putting our economy all now in the sun tonight in the fact that it convert is the least of your worries, but it doesn't stop there. Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes by the end, they're super spreaders recovered.


OK, next, um. Oh, knocked an ex parte on wearing night shirts to bed. Questionmark.


I think they are due to come back under a by Murphree night shirts and. Party, you put up something, you put up a thank you to every sport for your your jersey. I got a brand New Monster jersey before it's even hit the shelves. This ancient lifestyle, sports, I believe they sent you, didn't they? Yeah. You're not like one of these lads. You've got lads who did that. Thanks a lot to whenever anyone would know because it shows I didn't know this, but someone texted me afterwards, wow, has the sun even in the shops.


Wow. By the way, I thought it was still a medium and I am not still a medium. What are you.


I must be a large or an extra large. I couldn't move a.. First of all, I put it on backwards, which is a disaster area to get order to help me out of it. Um, I wouldn't be worth bed, if that's your point. But it's nightshirt like one with buttons, the black lacy vibe, like a long dress thing and old hat like the type of thing Jimmy Dornan was wearing. Oh, that's a silk dressing gown.


You wouldn't be wearing that to it. Yeah, they'd be getting all tangled. And this is like a like Scrooge McDuck with his ass or Ebenezer Scrooge.


That's the last famous Ebenezer Scrooge. Um. Fuck, man, I'd love to wear one of them. We should get. No, no. Go on merchandise penguin. Brandon. Yeah, yeah. Brilliant that we did say that last week. We're going to introduce penguin branding masks. Yeah we are. This is on the way. Dervaes, that's Dervaes job tomorrow. That's my job tomorrow. Busy reflooded. If a penguin if we could outsource your penguin we'll give you a toy present, give you a few pens, get a penguin pen and the penguin penguin.


OK, last last couple. And someone actually posted a photo. Uh oh, Carly was Armitage again, he's a new partner and it was a photo of Keatley and he said, look how Italian in Keatley has become since his move.


It's Italian that he look, he's actually doing a bit of a facial beard, and he's he's he's after Phil Notebaert and it's a very, very, very, very colorful jersey. So imagine him with a shirt, with a big belly sticking out and looking like an Italian mobster.


Lassard taken out of his mouth on a more French. Well, definitely French Dijkstra's. They're not as intimidating.


No, somebody has made a recommendation. Um, is there something to be said for a sanction between the red and yellow haired, like a black haired, where there is a 10 minutes in after which the player can't come back but can be replaced? Questionmark from Len Kamiti. There was talk Siddharta wasn't there that was brought in Australia or anything like that. Somewhere Australia are doing are doing a little bit more fancy stuff with the rules.


I definitely thought today they could have had a yellow card and one of those lads could have, you know, to not ruin the game. It seems a shame to ruin the game, isn't it? Yeah, I think that's the slogan that they're looking for. It seems a shame, I think, on this one.


We were talking about this earlier on where you could have been colvard minded, that he wanted to use his Alborz forced his hand to hand off S.J. Yeah.


To just still bad ones, and especially when no one gets hurt. Seijas grand, Carnaby's grand. And maybe just it's a victimless crime. Yes. So, yeah, I'd be down with this. Whoever said that papabile his was one hundred and ten percent red and Delahunt was seventy five percent red. Both red. Yeah, but would you agree Delahunt is not like not as bad? Yeah, again, it depends on what the damage is done like it could have been.


What if he what if he posted his windpipe and he's got maybe he might have a no like C.J. are vulnerable when he puts his windpipe, put his elbow Seijas.


For him to see that the government doesn't like it, that's the bang, it's coming right for us.


Yeah, yeah, well, from the party then it's got a seventy five percent. Yeah, exactly. The guy himself. Yeah. Yeah, it's Dentzer.


Seventy five percent. That's surely it's to be more sanctions. So if you end up having a vote, losing your voice box got to go more than 75 percent.


OK, sorry I bullied you into that seems a shame to ruin the game. OK, we are we did we go Penguin, Penguin of the week, Pangaea the week this week is in its go. No. Yes, boss. But no Dave Quinlan, former Shannon and Clam William F.C. or C No is a no. Simonson's schoolteacher and Gassmann general Gus Gassman. Let me know that. As I said, Redser, I knew who the original. Yes.


Pothole. What we call him, um. Find the finder, the founding member of the potholes was John Langford, former Munster second row Australian, came over here and called one of his Shannon teammates, who Dave has actually asked me not to name and shame because he's an actual pottle. But he called him a bottle. And he and I was like, what's that is like a fucking someone you just want to fucking avoid, mate? Whoever that was that she kept him on the show to defend himself.


He's part of ground zero. Yes. Patient one patient.


And it's spread like the virus out from there.


That's great. And we even we have it. We might catch it. No, you have it here. But if you get as close to him, it might. Yeah. I wonder, is there like a in like one of those white suits are able to communicate with him through like through a little speaker.


Oh, that's so interesting because, um, um, the first I ever heard of potholes was being down in Ireland camp. And actually we used to call them neck braces and Ulster the neck brace because I don't know, it's just like spending your neck trying to get away from them. I don't know. And again, no one ever even thought to get an explanation. But I.


I imagine it was someone has you by the throat and they're telling you all about rugby as a neck brace. And then whenever I got involved with Ireland that everybody was talking about potholes and then we all brought that up. Northern part of pothole became an all Ireland. It is Knowshon. It really is a hundred percent. Yeah, it's more it's gone spreading out of Ireland. Um, I think it's one another thing that we're giving to the world first.


If it was like we built Sophea potatoes, potatoes and what else we give them. Music, poetry, mushrooms, mushrooms from Ireland. No Pottow, Zapato or Penguin of the week.


Again, the paradox is, David Quinlan, congratulations, David, I'm listening and Pothole of the Week new slot that we have is this week and the about motors.


He's the only one jumping to mind. Not my decision. Nor I know. Graduation season. Sorry.


And on that note, I think we've we've done enough. Thank you so much, ladies gentlemen, for listening. This has been great. Thanks to on Redon for coming on and waiting. Thanks to Jeremy for all your production now and just for being very good at pushing all the buttons. We'll be back during the week potentially with another weekly bottle. And then we will also be back next week to chat about the April 14 semifinals and all other crack in the world party on.


Partyin. Parthian.