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A warning about content. This show contains descriptions of violence. Listener discretion is advised. On the last episode of Ransom, the FBI realized that one of Carl and Paulette's friends, Hilton Crawford, or Uncle Hilti, as McKay called him, had been conspicuously absent since McKay was kidnapped. Hilton was supposed to bring a new recruit to Carl's Amway meeting. In fact, he'd called Paulette to confirm it on the day McKay disappeared.


He called and wanted to know if we were going to the meeting or not. It was short. It was not much more than, Are you all going to be at the meeting? Yes, we are. And that was it.


But Hilton hadn't come to the Amway meeting. The next morning, when Carl was waiting for a call from the ransomers, Hilton Crawford had phoned the Everets and told them he'd be right over.


I'm coming to your house. I'm coming straight All right.


See you later. But again, Hilton never showed up. On September 13th, the day after McKay disappeared, Hilton Crawford arrived back home in Conroe around 9:00 AM. The following comes from a recorded interview, later made by the FBI and the Montgomery County Sheriff's Department. This is the first time this audio has ever been made public. The tape is grainy and hard to understand, so I'll restate the important points from the interview.


So you got back into your home about what time? About 9:00.


Hilton told investigators he'd arrived back home in Conroe around 9:00 AM.


And then people next door called me, if I heard anything.


He briefly talked with his neighbors, the Schavers, and then two FBI agents showed up at his door.


Two ladies at my door, and they were both from the FBI.


The agents were there to interview Hilton because he was on a list of people who had RSVP to the Amway meeting but hadn't shown up.


He invited me to several meetings, and I'd always thought I'm going to be there, but I never did go.


Hilton said that Karl claimed he was making good money through Amway, and Carl had tried to cajole him into joining Amway for a while. But Hilton never went to the meetings. So when Carl had called the week before to invite him to one, Hilton said he saw a fine opportunity to get Carl off his back.


Hilton said, We're going to have an Amway meeting. Can't even write some paper on that. Well, I'll see what I can do.


Hilton said Carl asked him to bring some potential recruits to the meeting. Hilton thought maybe if he brought along one of his employees, Keith McCurly, that would be good enough for Carl, and Carl wouldn't notice that he wasn't there.


What was the purpose in calling Keith to placate Carl? Well, yeah, because I promised Carl that I'd be there if somebody would be there.


Hilton told the FBI agents that at 6:00 PM the day before, or around two and a half hours before McKay disappeared, he had an early dinner with his wife at his sister-in-law's house. Hilton said that the man he was planning on bringing to the Amway meeting, Keith McCurly, couldn't make it that night, so Hilton changed his plans. He had a work meeting for his security guard business early the next morning in Sillsby, Texas, an hour and a half to the east, so he decided to knock out some work near Sillsby and then crash in a hotel in that area. Hilton said that he left at 08:00 PM and stopped by a couple of his security sites before checking into a Best Western motel near Sillsby around 01:00 AM. Hilton told him that that morning, he'd called his wife, Connie, at 06:00 AM and found out about McKay's disappearance. He started crying.


He said, Hilton, you're going to believe what happened. She said, My dad is missing.


Hilton told them that his wife had asked him to call the Everett's neighbor, Nancy Khan, to see if there was any way they could help.


Why did you call Nancy Khan?


I just called You see what was going on, really.


Nancy Khan told him that the Sheriff's Department and FBI were over at the Everett's house. She also mentioned that her husband, Bill, had seen a gold Chevy drive away from the Everett's home around the same time that McKay had disappeared, and that he'd seen a crown emblem on the back left bumper of the car. The FBI agents asked him if he knew anyone that drove a car that matched that description.


I said no.


Hilton was just one of many names on the FBI's list of people to interview. He'd been cooperative, and nothing he said raised any immediate red flags. It must have seemed unthinkable that Hilton Crawford was involved in McKay's abduction. Hilton was ex-law enforcement, a Little League baseball coach married to an elementary school teacher, and he was a close family friend. He was Uncle Hilton. After the FBI agents finished interviewing Hilton Crawford and left his home, he walked into his garage and stared at the golden 1994 Chrysler LHS parked inside. And then he bent down by the back left bumper and began to peel off the Crown dealership sticker. From KSL podcast, I'm Art Rascone. This is Ransom, Position of Trust. Episode 3, Uncle Hilti. After the FBI agents finished interviewing Hilton Crawford and left his home, he scrabbled to cover his tracks. He hadn't expected the FBI to get involved so quickly or for anyone to have seen him driving away from the Everett's home. Having worked for years as a police officer and a Sheriff's Deputy, he knew that investigators would soon be double-checking the story that he had told them, and he knew what he needed to do to stay ahead of the investigation.


Hilton called the security offices that he'd used as his alibi to the FBI. He lied to his employees, saying that he had swung by the night before and saw them working hard so he hadn't interrupted. He said that someone had hired a private investigator to try to get him in trouble and that the PI might lie and say they were from the FBI. Then Hilton called a nearby auto dealer and asked them how to remove a dealership's sticker from the vehicle. He had managed to tear off most of the sticker, but it had left behind a residue on the bumper. The worker at the dealership said that the solvent called Acrosol would work. Hilton thanked him and hung up. He went to a couple of auto shops, but neither had Acrosol, so he tried another solvent, which worked all right. Now, the gunk from the sticker was at least less obvious. But it was still visible if you looked closely, so Hilton decided to take the car to the car wash. As the FBI agents tried to verify Hilton Crawford's story, they started finding discrepancies. An agent went to the Best Western to see if Hilton had checked in the night of the 13th.


He had had, but not at 1:30 AM like he'd told agents, but rather at 4:30 AM.


He had been vague, so I wanted to go back and get a lot more detail from him.


Bob Lee was one of the FBI agents who worked the case. He went to Crawford's office the next morning on Thursday, September 14th, 36 hours after McKay's disappearance.


We sat down. Hilton initially was nervous. His hands were shaking. He calmed down a little bit as we continued talking to him.


Agent Lee asked him if anyone could verify his story about visiting various security offices, and he said yes, for example.


He talked to his guard named Karen and asked him, What did you talk about? What time did you get there?


Again, Hilton answered the question, but he was vague about some details. Lee continued asking about the other stops Hilton claimed to have made that night.


How did you get there? What time? Going into great detail. What did you talk about? Then where did you go from there? He drove to Beaumont and went to eat.


Beaumont is a small city, an hour and a half east of Conroe.


I think he said it was a Waffle house. So I asked him to describe his waitress. Tell me what he ordered. Tell me what time he got there. Tell me what time he left. Then he told me he went to the hotel, told me he got there about 1:30 or 2:00. He also showed me his motel receipt to show me that he had actually checked in.


But Agent Lee didn't ask Hilton about the time discrepancy that found with the hotel check-in. It seemed Hilton had stayed ahead of investigators. But Lee followed up on the places Hilton had been vague. He asked Hilton for more information about Karen, the guard he said he'd seen the night before.


At this point, I went back and asked him, What is Karen's last name? He told me he didn't know, but he could find it for me. It was probably in the personnel files. Then he couldn't get the personnel file because his clerk was not there. The files were locked up in a cabinet. He didn't have a key to it.


Hilton had an answer for everything.


So ask him the next guard he talked to. Then we got to the hotel. Like I said, he told me he checked in about 1:30 or 2:00, but I had already received information that he didn't really check in until about 4:00, 4:30.


Now, Agent Lee asked about the discrepancy. Why had Hilton said he checked in at 1:30 in the morning when the hotel's record said he hadn't checked in until 4:30.


When I asked him about it, he explained that the desk clerk was printing up all the receipts for the next day to slip under the tenant's door so they could check out. So he left his credit card with the desk clerk, and she would check him in and run his credit card when the computers were free, and he would pick them up the next morning when he checked out.


Agent Lee acted as if that was a reasonable explanation mission. But Lee says he didn't buy Hilton's story.


Not a bit. I can't think of anyone who would leave his credit card with the desk clerk at a motel and then go to sleep. I have never had anyone tell me anything like that.


There were other things about Hilton's story that seemed off.


The thing that stood out the most was when I kept pressing him for Karen's last name and her contact information. He just kept making one excuse after another. Basically, I think Hilton thought he was smarter than I was, and he could tell me a story and get by with it.


But Agent Lee didn't yet confront Hilton with his suspicions.


If I had challenged him, it might encourage him not to talk to me anymore. That's the reason I asked for so many details, because you can disprove lies, but you can't disprove silence.


Agent Lee asked Hilton to come in for a polygraph, but Hilton said he needed to deliver some checks for the security business.


This was on a Thursday, I believe, and he said he couldn't possibly go until Monday, but he'd be happy to do it on Monday.


For the time being, Agent Lee left it at that. Around the same time that this second interview with Hilton was wrapping up, the FBI supervisor on scene, Beth Martin, got another tip about Hilton. Martin was just finishing up a long shift.


I was like the last person on leave.


She was walking back to her car when one of the Everett's friends ran up to her.


He was looking for somebody, but he came running up to me. I think he just put two and two together. He was just thinking to himself, Now, wait a minute. What about Hilton Croffer. Why isn't he here? We had trouble getting hold of him. He should be here. He's a family friend. Kept going on and on about that.


Beth Martin can't remember the name of the man who ran up to her, but the man said Hilton Crawford drove a car eerily close to the one Bill Kohn had seen.


He said, Hilton has a car just like that. And he said, And he has a sticker on the car just like that. I think when he started talking me about that, I was like, Man, it sounded like we really need to talk to Hilton Crawford. And I called back to the command post, which at that time was in Conroe, and I said to them, Has anybody talked to Hilton Crawford?


Beth Martin learned that agents had just finished a follow-up interview with Hilton. They hadn't yet been debriefed on how that interview had gone. But regardless, Martin wanted to see if this tip about the sticker on Hilton's car was real. So she told the agent in charge of the command post, Lloyd Dias, to talk to Hilton.


Lloyd was one of these guys. He could talk to people. I said, Hey, Lloyd, can you call Hilton Crawford and ask him to come up to the office? Because we just need to ask him a few more things. Lloyd says, Okay.


Beth goes, Can you go ahead and call them. I said, By golly, I will.


Lloyd Dias had been working for the FBI for almost 10 years. He was gruff but persuasive.


I got in a room by myself, closed the door, and got him on a phone and said, I don't think you have anything to do with it, but we're trying to eliminate you as a suspect. I know you're close to the family. I know you want to do anything to help. I just poured it on. I said, Is there any way you can come in today, sir? Really be helping the family. I know how close you are. I know you don't want to do anything you could do to help. He said, Okay, I'll be there an hour and a half. I'm like, Oh. I was on pins and needles. I was looking at my wife's. He shows up, frumpy, but he wasn't anything odd about him. Just a normal big fellow. I set him down, said, Hey, yes, sir. Thank you so much for coming in. It's going to be a big help. I grabbed a person, not in front of him, obviously. I said, Go downstairs and look at the back of this guy's car and see if that dealership thing is on the trunk or not. And then now we started talking to him a little bit, and now whomever the agent was knocked them door, and he told me, No, it ain't there.


The dealership tag was gone, but the agent told The idea is that on closer inspection, they had noticed something about the car. There was a bit of residue on the back left bumper, and it was sticky to the touch, a sign that something there had very recently been removed. So the FBI brought out Bill Kohn, the neighbor who saw the car speeding off from the Everts home. They wanted to ask Bill if Hilton's car was the one he had seen the night of the kidnapping. Here's Bill's wife, Nancy.


My husband pointed out, Yeah, this was the car I saw, and there was an emblem right here, and you can tell it's been removed.


Nancy says that even as her husband, Bill, verified that Hilton's car was the one that he had seen, Bill held out hope that this was all some big mistake that Hilton Crawford wasn't really involved.


I mean, he was really just devastated and disgusted at the same time and just hoping that that really wasn't Hilton that did that, that kidnapped him. I mean, it's just so unbelievable to think that a friend could have done that, taking their son, the uncle Hilton part of it. That was just so disgusting.


But FBI agent Lloyd Dias was increasingly convinced that Hilton Crawford had kidnapped McKay.


Now we sit down and start talking to him. We're going along, and he doesn't appear really nervous or anything like that. I said, Hey, I know you want to help. Do everything you can. I didn't tell him this. He wasn't leaving in that car. But I said, Hey, would you mind signing a consent to search? Just look over your car and make sure everything's cool. I got him to sign a release, which if he didn't sign it, I would have just got a search warrant and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah days from when McKay had disappeared, there was no time to waste.


Since the FBI had taken his car, Bob Lee, the agent who had interviewed Hilton earlier that day, gave Hilton a ride.


Someone asked me if we would take him to the school so he could pick up his wife's car, and we drove him over to the school. As we were driving, he told us that the mats in the trunk were missing because they had gotten wet.


He goes, Oh, well, actually, The other day, some guy came to my office and said, Hey, your trunk's open, and it was pouring out and raining. I guess I hit my trunk release getting out of the car. In order to get all the water out of it, I had to have all the carpeting and the trunk removed.


It's something that he knew we would discover or we had already discovered. It's like a preemptive strike that I'll give them an explanation that I don't have anything to hide before they ask me a question.


Well, when he said he removed carpeting out of his trunk, boom, he had him in his trunk. Either the victim bled in the trunk or minimally left hairs in the trunk, right? So it'll prove that the victim was in the trunk. In order for him to eliminate that possibility, he removed all the interior lining of the trunk to go to pure metal. At that point, I said, Okay, this is our man. I mean, I wasn't 100%, but I was pretty close to it.


Agent Dias believed Hilton Crawford was somehow involved in the kidnapping, but he didn't think they had enough evidence to arrest him.


Me knowing it and proving it, that's two different things.


It was hard to know what to do in that situation. If they arrested Hilton, he might lawyer up and stop talking. The FBI still had no idea where McKay Everett was or what the ransomers might do if Hilton got arrested. But at the same time, every hour they waited, something terrible might happen to McKay. What investigators did know was that Hilton hadn't acted alone. There was at least one more person involved in McKay's disappearance, the woman with the raspy voice who had demanded half a million dollars. As a journalist, I've covered so many crime stories, and sadly, most of them involved victims without a security system. That's why I want to talk about Simply Safe. It is an incredible security system, the best, in fact. Simply Safe was named the best home security system in 2024 by the US news and world report. And in fact, Newsweek ranked it the best customer service as well. Incredible service, monitors break-ins, fires, floods, all of it. It monitors everything. It's a full system that will have you having a greater peace of mind. It has made me feel safe. It has made me feel like at ease.


A security system will do that to you. Simply Safe has given me and many of my listeners real peace of mind. I want you to have it, too. Right now, get 20% off any new Simply Safe system with FastProtect monitoring at simplisafe. Com/ransom. There's no safe like Simply Safe. It was the night of Thursday, September 14th, around 48 hours from when McKay was reported missing. Agents were still working around the clock, knowing a child Kroffard's life hung in the balance. They just confirmed that Hilton Crawford drove a car like the one Bill Kahn had seen, leaving the Everett's house, making Hilton the prime suspect. Although the FBI wasn't ready to arrest Hilton. They now had enough evidence to obtain a search warrant for Hilton's phone records.


At this point, we got two things going on, right? We need to get the records to see who this guy's talking to on a cell phone. And I'm over there with these guys. We're looking at the car.


Investigators noted that the car was immaculately clean. In the back seat of the car, they found a pair of handcuffs. It was strange, but Hilton did work in the security business. There was also a plastic cup that said Sam Houston Race Park.


We're going through the trunk, and they got the dealership to bring over same model, same everything, because I had no idea how much carpet there was in the back of this trunk, and I want to see what it looked like unmolested. So they brought it over, and the back of the trunk was wall to wall of that carpeting. This guy pulled out every stitch of it. And so we took pictures to show the difference.


To the naked eye, the trunk looked pristine, just shiny metal. But investigators suspected Crawford had ripped out the carpeting to hide something, so they decided to test the trunk with luminal. Luminol is a chemical that glows blue in the presence of blood. When they sprayed luminal into the trunk, a thin blue trail illuminated. The trail appeared to flow down into the tirewell.


I looked up at the top of the trunk. I said, Look at this. You could see the marks of a tire iron. The trunk was closed. It had probably marks in the top where somebody was trying to try to try it open. Anyway, took pictures of all that. We wrapped that up. Now we're waiting on the phone records, right? We got the records. It was like, It was like nine o'clock at night or something like that, right? It was late. We're just trying to find out if he was contacting anybody around the time the victim went missing. Some of them we could, Okay, this is his wife's number, or this is his home or this, the other. Well, we had a couple on there. One in particular was in Houston, and it was called right around the time he went missing.


In fact, the night of the kidnapping, Hilton had called the number six times. He placed three calls right around the time of the kidnapping at 7:55, 8:11, and 8:37, and then called three more times later that night at 11:10, 11:13, and 11:30 I am.


It's okay. This is an unknown number to somebody that's not connected to him that we can see. So let's go talk to him.


The number was listed as belonging to a woman named Irene Flores. Because it was a Hispanic last name, D has asked his Spanish-speaking partner, Donnie Miller, to come out with him to the woman's address. Here's Donnie.


So here we are, one o'clock in the morning, whatever it was. It was very late. And I'm brand new. My partner, he is a really good investigator, but he doesn't really believe in the concept of rapport, of establishing some comfort.


Our personalities are different. Donnie is much more mellow than I am. He's more soft-spoken, that'd be the way to put it. We were a good team because he would be the soft-spoken and whatever, and I'd be the one like, Okay, enough of this. I'd be the bad guy. He'd be the good guy. So we head down to the address. It was in a decent neighborhood in Houston, your typical lower middle income type area. And we get there.


She opened the door, if I remember right. She was in a nightgown, and She never made eye contact.


Irene Flores was a 52-year-old woman with short dark hair.


We met in a little enter room, and she led us into the living room. My partner, he's a Bulldog, began immediately to tell her what we could do to her, how we could ruin her life, blah, blah, blah, on and on, on and on. Hammer, hammer, hammer.


Flores acted confused. She said she didn't know a Hilton Crawford.


Then when she'd say her BS, at that point, I'd be the one like, Okay, look, let's just take her in. Let's go. Let's go. We're out of here.


At some point, he is fired up, and she's making no eye contact. He leaves the room, he starts dialing his phone, and I scoop my chair over to hers Again, I'm brand new, but I've begun to study the science of how do we... I don't want to use the word manipulate, but how do we engage those areas of the brain so we Realize it the truth.


Donnie is a smart guy, and everybody contributes in their own way.


Bootsy Collins said, Free their minds and their asses will follow. I want to free her mind so her lips will follow.


Different personalities make it the word.


The Dalai Lama says, Only when we listen do we learn. So I want to throw verbal point guard. I want to throw the ball verbally to a place so comfortable that she will talk about those things that I direct her to. And then I want to STF, you shut the F up, okay?


So you have all different types, period. And hopefully, you get the right guys together and make a great team, which that night, Donnie and I were a really good team.


I think it's the last page of Harry Potter where Dumbledore says, Words are our most inexhaustible source of magic. And here's the most inexhaustible source of magic. I begin to speak in her language. She's a Spanish speaker, and we begin to talk literally and figuratively in her language. When I scoop my chair over, I notice that she scoops hers over. I'm not yelling anymore. We're talking in sibilent, siserrent, sota voce, her quiet voice and my quiet voice. But in Spanish, I put my hand on her knee, proxymics and haptics. She places her hand on mine. Now, things are warming up. Things are rolling.


With Lloyd Dias barking into the phone in the other room, Flores admitted to Donnie Miller that actually she did know Hilton Crawford, that in the past, she'd work for him as a security guard.


And I asked her, Do you know what my partner's doing? This is not good cop, bad cop. This is my partner doing his damn thing. He is angry, and he is dialing the phone fiercely. And I said, Do you know what he's trying to do? And she said, Yes. And she's shaking now. She says, He's trying to put me in prison. And I said, No, I think we already have that. He's trying to make sure that you spend the rest of your life there. A good popo will tell you that we study the walls, we study what they're wearing, we study We study their tone of voice, we study everything. Archimides was one of the Greeks who said that if you find the right fulcrum point, you can move the world. And that's what I'm looking for in my fulcrum point. And on her walls were pictures of young children. It looked to be her grandchildren. So to be subtle and discrete rather than go directly to the grandchildren card, I used a technique we call bringing them into our family. I mentioned that she held her hands the way my grandmother holds hers. Commonality is you like pasta, I like pasta.


Let's go eat some damn pasta. The Archimadeian fulcrum is depth and profoundity. I told her how I worship my grandmother and how the two held their hands right in their laps. She's crying a little, she's shaking a little, but she begins to not just look at the floor, but look at me at times. When my partner returns, I ask, How may we help you? And she says, My daughter is an unfit mother. I have to be here to raise my grandchildren. I could say, I think I can help you with that, but think is not certain. I could say, I believe. Belief shows conviction, but not certainty. So I say, I think I believe. Actually, I know Ms. Flores. Use her name. I know I can help you be here to raise your grandchildren if you can help us save the little boy's life. I used his name, and I painted a picture of him and she began to talk.


Irene Flores told the FBI agents that the kidnapping was not what it seemed.


She really confessed. She said that Crawford knew of a person that wanted to break up from her husband.


Flores said Crawford wasn't the one really behind the kidnapping. Instead, it was McKay's mother, Paulette, who was trying to make a clean break from Carl.


She wanted Crawford to stage a kidnapping and to get the ransom money for her to start a new life, and that he needed her to make the phone call for the ransom.


We interviewed Irene Flores. Here's how she remembers Crawford describing the scheme.


He said, Irene, I'll give you $25,000. All you have to do is make this phone call. And he told me about a mother. She wants to get away from her husband, and she needs some finance. He told me, just say this. When you make the phone call, just say that we've got the boy, and if you want to ever see him again, don't call law enforcement. And that was it. And they're going to reunite and whatever, and she's going to leave, and there was going to be a happy ending. And I just did everything that he told me. I mean, he's never lied to me. He gave me a job and helped me get other people jobs. So I trusted him.


Irene Flores told the FBI agents that after making the ransom call, she'd barely spoken to Hilton.


Hilton had called me at work and told me that the boy was safe, that he was on his way to Mississippi.


Hilton had told Flores to lie if she was contacted by law enforcement. He wanted her to tell them that she'd borrowed his cell phone and gone on a trip to Louisiana with it.


That was the last time I talked to her.


In the early hours of Friday, September 15th, just over two days from when McKay disappeared, Irene Flores confessed to making the ransom call. She admitted admitted her and Hilton's involvement in Mekay's kidnapping, but her confession had added an unexpected curveball to the case. According to Flores, Paulette was the one behind the ransom.


He told me, the wife, the mother, she's involved. She was to separate from her husband. But I really didn't give it much thought. I just believed him. I believed him, and I believed what he told me about the lady. He knew these people. I didn't.


Agent Lloyd Dias believed Flores.


She was telling the truth. I finally believe that. I didn't think she was a liar at all. No, she was telling the truth.


But he wasn't sure that he believed the story that Hilton had told her.


No, because if that was true, for one thing, once the FBI gets involved, he'd be like, Look, I did this for the mom. At that point, I'm handing it all up.


Dias thought that if Paulette was really behind the kidnapping, Hilton would have confessed once the FBI had circled in on him. But that hadn't happened. Instead, Hilton had doubled down on his story. But investigators still had no idea what would motivate Hilton to kidnap his friend's child. The agents thanked Flores for her cooperation and left. It was 4:00 AM. On the dark drive back to Conroe, they called in what they'd found out.


I call up and say, Okay, this is what we got, guys. I'm given information in this, that, and the other to put his arrest warrant. So now we got to get the warrant, get it signed, which that takes a little while putting all together.


Agent D has wanted to be there for Hilton's arrest.


I don't care about putting the cuffs on him. I just want to be there, okay? When you're putting a lot of energy and emotion and everything else trying to solve this kidnap, you got a 12-year-old boy missing. I mean, you want to be there when the culmination occurs.


But the FBI wasn't sure that Hilton would go down easy.


This one was, I mean, obviously high stakes because it is a kidnaping. I mean, he was a former law enforcement officer. We assumed he had guns.


As the FBI waited on the judge for warrant. They began running through possible scenarios.


You have a perimeter, you have a cover, you get him to come out. You see on TV them knocking down doors. I mean, even the worst guys we have arrested, we didn't do that. I mean, where's the guy going to go? You can't flush yourself down the toilet. I mean, he's not going to get away. If he refuses to come out and says, Come in and get me, then we'll do what we got to do at that point.


Law enforcement still had no idea just how bad of a spot Hilton had gotten himself into. They had to prepare for anything.


You don't know what somebody with his back against the wall like that is going to do.


Because this wasn't just about making the arrest. This was about returning McKay home safe.


Of course, we still got the boy missing. I mean, don't forget that.


That was the question that loomed large. Where was McKay? And would Hilton lead investigators to him? Next time on Ransom. In my heart, I know you have never harm my son.


You loved him like your son. Amazing.


For more information, including pictures, find us on social at the Ransom podcast or visit our website, ransompodcast. Com. We'll have new episodes every Wednesday and bonus episodes every Friday. Follow us now wherever you get your podcasts. And if you could leave a rating and review, we would really appreciate it. Ransom is researched and written by Ben Kebrick and hosted by me, Art Rascone. Production and sound design by Ben Kebrick, Erin Mason, and Trent Sell, who also did the mixing. Special thanks to Andrea Smarten, Kelly Ann Halberson, Ryan Meeks, Amy Donaldson, Felix Bennell, Josh Tilton, and Dave Cawley. Main musical score composed by Allison Leighton-Brown, co-created by Austin Miller. For Podcast One, executive producer Eli Dvorakin. For Workhouse Media, executive producer Paul Anderson. And for KSL podcast, executive producer Sheryl Worsley. Ransom is produced by KSL Podcasts in association with Podcast One and Workhouse Media.


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