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You are listening to the Reality Steve podcast with your host Reality Steve. He's got all the latest info and behind the scenes juice on Taisha season of The Bachelorette and interviewing some of your favorite reality stars. Now, here's a reality, Steve. What's up, everybody, welcome to podcast number two online. I'm your host reality. Thank you all for tuning in this week. Another great show for you. For the first time together as a duo from the Here to Make Friends podcast and the Huffington Post.

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It is emigre and Clare Fallon Emma has been on in the past, Clare has not, so the first time we have them on together, I hope you will enjoy this interview before we get into things.

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Got to talk to you about Bravo. Bravo is heading to the slopes with the brand new series The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City.

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These new wives are extra in every way, every episode sure to be juicier than the next. Whether you're Housewives fan or I've never even seen an episode, you won't want to miss it. Don't miss the mountain high drama unfold in The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City every Wednesday at 10:00, 9:00 Central or catch up any time on Bravo on Demand.

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Before we get started, a few notes to go over the live that I did with Ashley Spivey last night is up on my Instagram account. I get asked about it every week. I missed the live. How can I watch it? I know I've said this probably ten times, but I'm just going to keep saying it. If you go to my Instagram account and you click on that little TV icon, that's my TV page. Every single one of the lives that Ashley and I have done since May is up there, except for the one from three weeks ago, for whatever reason that just didn't upload.

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I don't know why, but it's up there. Last night's is up there. We talk about a lot of the stuff that went on and Tuesday's episode. Talk a little. Finale stuff for Teisha. There are some spoilers in there. In terms of my you know, where I'm at with teachers finale and what happens at the end. So be prepared for that. And there are some things talked about in the last night's Live that you'll hear me talk with Emma and Claire about, so look forward to that.

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Also, we got our first touch of Matt James season with the. Clip, promo, 30 second promo that aired wasn't a lot, it was a lot of first night stuff, some short quick clips of him kissing women on dates, nothing major that they've given away just yet. But his season is about six weeks away. January 4th, it's the 13th, 14th season in a row now that The Bachelor starts on the first Monday in January. So this isn't anything new.

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It always starts at the same time and always films at the same time. Matt Season started a little bit later. Most bachelor season starts filming end of September and end right before Thanksgiving. His first night was October 10th and is ending this weekend. So. You will see a lot of the women from that season back on social media and actually having social media activity because they've been trying to follow just based off social media activity. You'd think that everybody is almost still there, but that's the mandate handed down from the show.

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They know now that everyone's watching their social media.

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So I know for a fact they tell these women and guys, look, once you get off the show, don't start adding everybody from the show. Wait till it's all over. You can all at each other. Then it's harder to figure out stuff. So just know that they're on to you. They know. So I wouldn't be ever using social media as a clear descriptive.

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A clear definition of somebody being home or somebody not being home because they are telling all these people to lay off.

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What else that was really it didn't have a lot to go over because a lot was covered in, you know, Tuesday's column and my issue with the Instagram account, Des Moines, Iowa, we go over that again last night in the live. And, you know, yeah, that site's the one that I was calling out. But it's more about just misinformation in general that everybody, you know, Facebook sees a lot of it. And even on Twitter, you know, people tweeting out stories, retweeting stories to where Twitter has stepped in and started to put something out there that says no before you just believe this person's tweet, you need to actually read the link that they posted and then make your decision.

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So that's my whole issue is, you know, I don't know why people are getting on my case for wanting people to be more accountable, wanting people to wanting people to that have a site that says what we're reporting is not based, in fact. To just, I don't know, report, not report stuff that isn't based, in fact, but that's all I'm asking is maybe you reassess what you're doing. Are they going to listen? No, but I'm passionate about it.

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I don't like misinformation being put out there on purpose.

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I might post something that ends up being wrong, but that's not that's completely different than purposely posting something that you have no idea whether it's true or not, and you're going to let your readers decide whether or not they want to believe it, because the second you put it out there, there are hundreds, if not hundreds of thousands of people that immediately take it as truth and run with it. And it spreads like wildfire. So that's my biggest issue there.

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But anyway, not a whole hell of a lot to get to. So let's get going with podcast number two 009. All right, let's bring him in. They are the hosts of the Here to Make Friends podcast. Been a while since we had him on it is emigre and clearfelling. Thanks for coming on, you guys.

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Hey. Hi. Thanks for having us.

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Actually, you know what, Claire? I apologize. I think I've had em on and not you. I don't think I had you guys on the same time.

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I didn't want to call you out, but yeah, I don't. I owe on my big debut.

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Yeah. Well, they are basically one person at this point, so. Yeah.

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Well, first things first, Claire, you're a new mother. Congratulations. Tell us how that is going. How and how has it been? How old is your son? It's a boy, right.

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He is 11 months old. He is wonderful, special child.

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And it's been a lot of fun being a new mom this year.

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We just sent him to day care for the first time in my maternity leave ended in April. So that probably gives some sense of how the six months have gone in our apartment. But now that he is in daycare, it's it's even better.

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I was going to say, well, the fact that he's 11 months means he's not a he's not a covid baby.

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He wouldn't deliver during covid know where I was. I was just finishing up my maternity leave when when it happened.

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So we got to have family over. At first my my parents got to meet him before the shutdown. So that was a blessing for us.

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Is he. Is he taking to AMA here? I mean, have you seen him.

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Yeah, I have, yeah. They've they've met a couple of times back at back in the day. We went to a march together over the summer. So she's been a very attentive aunt.

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So I also went through sort of like a dark quarantine tie, dying phase. You know, other people experience greater hardship, obviously, but I went into a creative hole. So I poor Claire ended up with some product of my creative tailspin. So she and Max now have matching tie dyed onesies. That looks great.

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And yeah, you know, I'm sure I asked you this, Emma, when you were on the first time, but I'm I'm blanking on the amount of years. How long have you guys been doing the podcast together?

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We started with Caitlyn Bristow's season of The Bachelorette. OK, so five years, yeah. Yeah, I always lose track myself, so I spend and it just started as recaps on a podcast and then it got into interviews. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's yeah, I mean, when we started, there just wasn't the like overwhelming number of BATCHELLER focused podcast that there are now. I feel like it's really exploded in the last three years.

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Yeah. And mostly by the contestants themselves. It's not even the fans. It's contestants themselves now that, you know, have it's just like. You've got and then you've got now official podcasts of the show where, you know, this this season is where it has kind of started in terms of, you know, Rachel and Becca interviewing guys who are still on the show, which they've never done in the past. They used to do it with the the exit interviews with the media.

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They used to have the they would choose one guy or girl from the episode that just aired that had gotten eliminated. And they'd put them on the conference call for the media. And we'd see those interviews every week, kind of like they do with Survivor and Dance with the Stars couples.

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But this is the first we've seen of this show acknowledging. Someone that's still participating on the show and doing interviews because they had, I think, Spencer on today that I saw. So, you know, the show's kind of getting with the times.

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Yes. Yes. I say it used to be easier for us to get interviews. I have so many so many options now to have people on a nice, friendly bachelor on podcast and official podcast whenever they want. So it's really changed the face of bachelor media for sure.

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And there have been a lot stricter about letting their contestants do anything outside of Bachelor Nation, at least at least the most recent ones you could pull somebody from three or four years ago who has no ties to the franchise anymore.

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They'll do it in a heartbeat. And they're they're just as good of guests to get. But for the Johnny come lately, fans, they're like, who? And it was literally three seasons ago. And it's just like, you know, I mean, it's it's tough. But unfortunately, my podcast, your podcast dealing with the with the same things, it's just it's right.

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I mean, and, you know, as you said, like often, I think it's easy to get caught up in wanting instant insight, of course, from people who are still on the show. And like, that's valuable and often if you have access to it. But there is something to be said for booking people who have a little bit more space from the experience and are not under contract and so can speak more candidly. And I've also just like had the time to process what they went through and reflect on it.

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Yeah, some of my best guess, I think are contestants that are three, four or five years out from the show and they just and it's a contestant that you were like, OK, and you might and just you might not have known anything about them at all. And then they tell the story about either stuff that happened on the show or even about their own story, what they've done since the show. And yeah, I mean, some of the best guests, they don't have to be I mean, look, I get we're in an instant gratification society right now where everybody has to have tea or gossip, you know, and every second of every day, especially when it comes to this franchise.

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But it's just not realistic. And it doesn't mean it's a bad interview if it doesn't have teeth in it or gossip or dirt or whatever you want to call it, you know. Yeah, absolutely, and I think that it's the payoff is much greater if you let things simmer a little bit like do I really get that much out of tea from someone who just left a season two weeks ago? Or am I going to get more actual revelation and an insight from someone who has had three to five years to think about it?

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I feel like it's always a more interesting lesson for sure.

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Let's talk about last night's episode because, yes, you know, not a whole hell of a lot different than what we've seen in past seasons, except the drama last night seemed to surround two guys we don't really know and had really zero investment in in Chasen. And Ed, Emma, your thoughts was chasing in a small or medium shirt.

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What was your thoughts on that? I mean, this is the investigative journalism we need you for. Yeah.

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Like, how how will I ever assess Chafin Worth as a man and as a potential romantic partner? Unless I know his short side, like there's nothing else that's relevant. So please, you know, ex-girlfriends of his get in touch, let us know this is very important.

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I just can't believe that that I mean, look, they're they're arguing back and forth was really nothing we haven't heard before where one person thinks someone there isn't for the right reasons. You know, it's like we get it right. You're podcast's or you're here to make friends. But, you know, it's kind of the same thing. Like, I'm not here to make friends. I'm and then somebody immediately says, well, you're here for the right reasons or whatever.

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So I look, we hear it every season. That's not even an original argument anymore. I mean, I think I think at this point it's more laughable when someone says you're not here for the right reasons, because what are I mean, it's never been established within this franchise. What are the right reasons? Is it really to get engaged and get married on this show? Because we all know how social media has taken it over. And if you're not going on the show for followers, you're lying.

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No one and I don't know, I just I thought that that argument between Jason and Ed was so shallow and so and said it had no substance to it. Clear your thoughts.

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Yeah. I mean, what you're pointing out, I think, is so true, like a cliche, it's a way to avoid being specific in a way that might provide any insight. So when you say, you know, you're not here for the right reasons, you're using a common phrase that people know, but no one ever has to explain exactly what it means. And so what are you really arguing about? Like, it just seems like Ed and Bennett don't care for Chasen and they can use this the same thing as a cudgel against him.

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It is it's frustrating. I would like to to see media drama. It seems to come absolutely out of nowhere. Yeah.

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I mean, we didn't I mean, we didn't even know who it was before last night's episode. Let's be honest. There's been five episodes.

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His no screen time. Ed wants Ed wants to get on camera. I mean, he's got to know that he's not working his way into the storylines yet. And this is a great way to do it.

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Right. It's also just such a silly thing to frame it as though, like hoping to find a romantic relationship and hoping to gain Instagram followers are in some way like mutually exclusive goals of going on this show. You know, the sheer numbers tell a story. You know that the vast majority of people who go on the show are not going to end up in a relationship like let alone a successful romantic relationship. So I'm going to assume that you're going to have like more more reasons than just like I hope to be married to this person I've never met as like a reason to put your life on pause, go on TV, expose yourself to millions of people for possible humiliation.

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I mean, yeah, there better be a payoff there. It's just it's a disingenuous boundaries for for the fight from the first place.

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I think Ed saying, you know, again, phony actor fraud is what he called him.

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Wow. Well, they are somewhat descriptive. I still would have known what he meant by that. Like, why? No idea. Unless he's really talking about, oh, you said the same things to Claire that you're now saying to Teisha. Well, what things? I mean, they're both attractive women.

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So is it that, you know, he doesn't have a very deep vocabulary when it comes to describing women? We know that he calls them a smoke show, muy bonita and Caliente.

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That was funny. That's what he came up with.

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And he had he just needed to switch to another language in order to expand the variety like he was like. I it can't even be summed up in English, her beauty. I know I didn't even have an issue with the smoke show comment. I look, I think, Jason, I could get on him for numerous things last night. I think he just I mean, smoke shows just a different way of saying hot. I mean, it seems like hot is over.

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Who's hot is overused anyway. I mean, is it does it sound like a frat boy that says it? I mean, that sounds like frat boy vocabulary. Yeah, it does. But I didn't think it was insulting or demeaning at any point. It's a compliment, but. Some people take his aesthetic, too, I mean, of course, he smokes, but he's going to play cornhole, he's got all the smoke show.

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That's what he does. Like if it's part of the chasten package, Taisha seems to like it. It's just it is these days on these non-specific cliches like you're a fraud, OK? You're not here for the right reasons, OK? You act different around Hacia or in front of the cameras than you do with us. What do you mean? Like, there's no that's just a common allegation made while the villains on the show and there's very rarely I mean, specifics behind it, there certainly weren't in this case.

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And the whole vocabulary thing just seemed to spiral into a way to bully chase them for not being as smart as Ed and which debatable. But, you know, it didn't really seem to be about how genuine he was.

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And do we really know how smart Bennett is? He can't subtract 10, 25. Right. He this is a man who can't spell Limousin. I mean, again, not a moral failing, but like who what authority do you have to be, like, handing out grades here?

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Yeah, yeah. I think it's it does look like I said, it's not anything we haven't seen before. It's the same arguments we hear every season. I and I guarantee when Matt season rolls up and six weeks from now, they're going to be some girls in the house that tell other girls, I don't like you, you're not here for the right reasons or you're fake or you're phony. It's the same stuff. It's same stuff. Different.

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Seems like sometimes people are just allowed to not like each other and not get along and like and they still just have to co-exist because they're forced together in this situation. I think often, like annoyance is is turned into some sort of like you have to find a justification because you're around this person.

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So like, if you're just annoying, really chasing bothers me and like, he feels not that interesting. You're like, well, it's probably because he's a fraud and I must expose him to Tatia, you know, in the same goes for like Chase and being annoyed with like they're all just kind of annoying.

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And let's be honest, if they cast thirty one guys that all got along, the show would suck and and women that they're purposely not. You can't possibly get along with everybody in the house as a cast. There's just it's never happened in the history of the show. We have we now have 40 seasons of of evidence that this just does not happen. There's a reason they cast the people that they do, which are usually type A personalities, that you're going to buttheads, you're going to clash.

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And the fact that you're all fighting for the same common goal here, of course, it's going to happen.

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Yeah, I would love to see them develop beautiful friendships, but, you know, that doesn't always make for the most dramatic television.

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No, no, not at all. And, you know, we've seen friendships develop from the show and continue on when the show is over. A lot of them seem a little surface level, but there are some that certainly are out there that you can pinpoint and say, wow, they really developed a friendship from the show. But for the most part, yeah, we're going to get you're going to butt heads with people in this in this show and in the house because.

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Gosh, I mean, just just the just the idea of being stir crazy alone, not, you know, not being able to do anything, you know, locked in this television show, this Truman Show kind of kind of deal. And then this season even more so because they were in the same location. They're going to even get on a plane and go somewhere, breathe. It's just, you know, everything's Laquinta. So, yeah, it happens.

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I mean, I, I get it to a certain extent, but I just would like a little more description, like you said. And I it just it's it's the same things without any description of. What do you mean when you say this. What do you mean when you say that fraud actor phony. It's such a such a generic word. Right.

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Like I'm I'm all I'm here for the petty drama, whatever. That's fine. We know that that's part of this show, but. It doesn't the way that these fights end up playing out and it doesn't tell us anything about anyone involved, like we don't learn anything about these people because they're just throwing out all of these, like, as you said, totally unspecific cliche allegations against one another. And then they just you're just like, OK, send them all home because they're tainted.

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Now, let's talk to you real quick about Bravo. It's been a crazy year. Thankfully, we can always count on Bravo to provide the perfect escape.

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Bravo is expanding its hit franchise and heading to the slopes with a brand new series, The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. And fans are already obsessed. These new wives are extra in every way with their lavish lifestyles and over the top, and every episode is sure to be juicier than the next. Whether you're a Diehard Housewives fan or never even seen an episode in your life, you won't want to miss it. Real Housewives of Salt Lake City takes viewers into the complex and exciting world of Salt Lake City, where life is about more than just religion.

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These majestic mountains hide a social circle made up of six successful women. Just by watching the trailer, you will be sure to notice how diverse this cast is and how bad ass all these women are.

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Don't miss the mountain high drama unfold.

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Real Housewives of Salt Lake City every Wednesday, 10, 9:00 Central or catch up any time on Bravo on Demand, guys.

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I just said, put it on the grill. And they're like, no, the wagger beef, if you choose to order. That they said is best in a cast iron pan, three and a half minutes on each side, medium high heat, and then you rest it for about eight to ten minutes. I did it and it was unbelievable. It's it's literally the best meat I've ever tasted in my life there. Wagger beef is unreal. And I cooked it exactly that.

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All right. Let's move on real quickly to just the fact I mean, we're obviously talking about last night's episode, but I haven't spoken to you obviously since the season started. Your start with you, Claire, in regards to Claire, start with Claire talking about Claire.

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Oh, by the way, it's just so funny how you spell your name, Clay Irey and Claire is Clay Ari. And it's just amazing to me. I mean, Claire has been announced as The Bachelorette since March. We've seen it. She's been on five times now. It's amazing to me when I get emails, when I get MS, when I get Instagram messages of how many people spell Claire Crawley, Clay Iori, I just.

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How have you not seen her name anywhere? Yeah, it's just it's hard for people I know.

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But anyway, speaking of Claire, what was your take on the whole season? Were you bothered by what she did? Would you rather have seen her stick it out or are you happy that, like, hey, yeah, it might be two weeks, but if you're looking for the point of the show, which is a love story, seemingly we got one with those two. Where do you stand on everything? Yeah, I mean, I really enjoyed it for just for starters, and I mean, it is a TV show.

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It's supposed to be entertaining. I think that that's why production encouraged it and went along with it, which we saw them doing. We see Chris sitting down with Claire well in advance of when she actually see the show and being like, oh, so Dale, it seems like you and Dale are falling in love. The show saw an opportunity to do something fun and different, a twist on the formula. And I think it worked. I like seeing a deviation from the script now and then.

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And I also thought that it was in a way like kinder to the guys. She wasted relatively little of their time. She took herself out of the process once she knew that it was not going to be really open to any of them anymore. And so it's interesting to me. It's been interesting to see how many people have accused her of wasting their time or leading them on or deceiving them when the structure of the show is actually set up for more of the men to be deceived and led on for a longer amount of time.

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And I don't think that it really makes sense to cast those accusations at Claire who who tried to do the opposite. And personally, I'm happy that she and Dale seem happy, like that seems like the best possible outcome.

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Emma, your thoughts? I completely agree with everything that Claire said, I for me, it's like, great, we get a season that feels a little bit different. It provides that sort of escapism that I was looking for and twisted the formula.

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And then we, as a result, get to bachelorettes who I both think are really different and really dynamic and both women that I was personally pretty excited to see in the lead roles. And they are, you know, very different. And they like they gravitate towards different men.

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And so I think we've also gotten to see this really interesting reshuffling of front runners in a way that obviously has never happened on the show before, because you always only have one person. And I also liked that they were able to have two women in the lead role without it being a competition between two of them like they did with Caitlyn and and Brit, which is the last time, you know, we got quote unquote to bachelorettes. But really it was just Caitlyn season.

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So I've been really enjoying it and frankly, been interested to see the level of.

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The level of anger that a lot of fans seem to have at Claire or the instinct by a lot of people to kind of put Tasha and Claire in competition with each other, when in my mind it's like, wow, what an embarrassment of riches we have. We get to watch these two women kind of play out this game in the way that that works best for them.

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I feel like the show is kind of putting me because I didn't. I think a lot of people agree. Claire did not get the greatest edit in the world from them. It just they they they painted her as, you know, boy, crazy, you know, towards one boy and, you know, almost desperate. And then, you know, even even Dayle going to him and saying, well, everything's lined up for you perfectly here. There's only one thing left.

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It's got to be an engagement. It's almost like they were shoving an engagement down his throat. Maybe he was going to do it anyway. But the way they presented it, a lot of people agree. Claire did not get a great edit, almost got a villain. Edit for some of the things that happened on the season with, you know, showing her saying, can we speed this up? You know, that didn't that was that was not her sitting in front of a camera during an ATM that was through a window.

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We saw that. It's like, why would you choose to show that unless you want to make your lead look bad? Because that was completely taken out of context in the way it was said, because past leads have come out. Rachel Deonna have come out since then and said we've all said that like, can we speed this thing up? I want to get with my guy like it's but to show Claire through the window saying that and stuff like that is definitely a bad edit.

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And I feel almost bad for Tasha because. Her coming in, especially with the entrance that they gave her, the slowmo out of the pool like a bond girl or something, and then because you gave Claire such a bad edit, it's almost like, here's our savior. This is going to be the girl that's going to save our season when she's not going to do anything different than the previous 16 bachelorettes has done. She's going to come on. She's going to be the lead on the show.

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She's going to go on one on one date. She's going to go on group dates. She's going to give out roses.

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I mean, it's just we're not reinventing the wheel here. And I almost feel like the I almost feel like there really are making Taisha out to be like this. Savir like, oh, my God, just wait till wait till this one comes in and saves us from the the awfulness that was clear for four episodes and her paying attention to any of the other guys just I don't know, I feel bad for her. But yeah, there's there's a little bit of you know.

[00:33:09]

Having to do everything that the fast ones have done backwards and in heels to to what they're doing to Teisha. Yes, she is for the first time, you know, even compared to Caitlin, who who had to deal with the question of, like some men were here who voted for Brit, you know, she had to come in and be confronted by Chris and by all the guys and by just her knowledge of the situation with the idea that she had to win all these men over.

[00:33:36]

There is no assumption that they're there for her. And she had to deal with each of them with the suspicion that if they are genuinely into her, why were they there dating Claire? You know, what kind of motives do they have that they're interested in dating both her and Claire? So she she's put in a position of wooing them in a way that the lead usually isn't. And that's a much more deft kind of maneuver to pull off than just coming and being the person that everyone salivates over from that one.

[00:34:14]

Yeah, I agree. And I think she's handling it incredibly well, which is a real testament to her and obviously speaks to why they chose her for this difficult position. But I do feel in different ways, both for Tatia, for all of the reasons you guys have outlined and for Claire in in as much as I think the fourth proposal, like it felt a bit forced to me, that is the one part of her, quote unquote journey that I really was bothered by.

[00:34:49]

I thought they could have just let them, you know, go date each other. And and that would have been fine and lovely and potentially set the relationship up in a more healthy way and opened her up to less backlash. And then, you know, I I wish that they had given Taisha a little more reassurance. I wish there had been less of a focus on handing over her body in this sort of objectifying way when she was introduced. And yet, on the whole, I've found both of them to be like really delightful, magnetic, interesting leads.

[00:35:27]

And I think often. You know, not to generalize, but I think often, like with the men that we've got in the lead role, like they don't have to be interesting or dynamic, they just have to be like. No jobs then, like a lot of, like, smoke shows that you have to be.

[00:35:48]

Yeah, I hear I get it. It's it's I they're different. I mean, I don't think Tatia and Claire. It could be any more different, and I'm sure they have similarities, but in terms of the lead of the show, you know, Taisha is only just I think she turned 30 during filming. And, you know, here's Clara at 39, who's been on the show five times and has been on twice and and 30. And you know how to got to the final three on Kolten season had a fling basically with John Paul Jones.

[00:36:24]

But we've never seen her as somebody that was. We know now her back story of of being divorced. She talked about it and season. It seems like she's talked about it more in these two episodes than we heard much about on Coltons. But I just think they're in two different points in their life.

[00:36:41]

And maybe that was their dynamic that they were going for. When, you know, look, covid obviously threw a wrench into plans this season. Claire's season was supposed to start March 13th, and that was the day covid was declared a national pandemic. So we had four months of end production, had four months of listening to people throw their two cents in of what they thought of Claire as The Bachelorette.

[00:37:07]

Why are we doing this? I mean, granted, we get that every season.

[00:37:09]

But I think when you have four months of hearing people complain about Claire, I'm probably is why they and then knowing you're going to film a season in one location for the first time in the history of the show, it's not far fetched to think that, OK, we need to we need to rethink how we're doing this season. And, you know, we know that Claire speaks to production every day during covid and or at least a lot. She was admittedly looking at her guys on social media.

[00:37:41]

They knew they knew that she was into detail from day one and was going to be into him. And as long as he didn't trip over himself coming out of the limo and, you know, couldn't put a sentence together, he he was probably the guy she was going to choose anyway. So, yeah, they lean into it, like you said, adjusted format and did something a little bit different. But as for Tatia, you know, I like the fact that she's there and it's not like she was taken out of left field because she was a finalist.

[00:38:08]

It was Claire, Tatia and Tia. They've said those were our three finalists this season. So it made it made a little sense. And, you know, going forward with Teisha. As for you, Claire, your thoughts going forward on Tatia, is it something to wear? I don't know. Put yourself in your shoes. How do you think you would have reacted either getting the call and saying, hey, Claire's out, you're in, go.

[00:38:35]

I mean, if you're single and you're and you could do it and it was presented to you, I'm assuming you would have taken it. But what do you think your mindset would have been that first night would have been more of yeah, this is my show now or gosh, these guys all signed up for someone else. Yeah, I mean, I think that the distance between my personality and patience can be measured by the fact that no matter how small and bored I was, I would never agree to do that, partly because carrying the show is such an exhausting task and partly because of the additional burden of the insecurity of thinking constantly.

[00:39:17]

These guys were there for someone else. And so I think it's really a testament to just who Taisha is that she has a lot of optimism and openness in her and her character and that whereas many of us, myself especially, would constantly be tentative, would be coming in to meet these guys being like, sorry, sorry, I'm not clear. Sorry that she is just like, I'm amazing. I'm here. Like, they're going to be guys here who.

[00:39:55]

Are perfectly capable of falling in love with me. Why wouldn't they? I'm great and let's just have a lot of fun and let's have a great summer. Not everyone will be able to pull that off. And so that's that's just exactly the person they need it for this. I mean, imagine I look at Claire. Claire is very different from Tasya and she handles the dating very differently. I can't imagine what that would have been like if it were the other way around.

[00:40:22]

But Tesla just has this. She's always happy to be where she is and she can make the most out of it. Oh, I agree, I think that that's perfectly, perfectly fair and I think that she was has the personality type that was suited to kind of take this on and she's run with it. And I think that it probably also helped that after that first night she did, at least from a few of the men that she connected with really well.

[00:40:55]

You know, that first night that they did go that extra mile to reassure her and be like I wasn't connecting with Claire. This is what I came here looking for, like this kind of spark. And so I think probably if you're Tasia and you have that initial confidence and then you have a few people who you're into and let's be real, like the lead is always only into one to four people usually. So if you get some of that affection back, I think it's like you're going to just run with it.

[00:41:28]

You know, you mentioned earlier, Emma, you're talking about the kind of the reaction that Claire got online. It just seemed like it. Got a little carried away, got a little more toxic this season, and just in general, you know, I don't even call it Bachelor Nation anymore. I call it Toxic Bachelor Nation, because this isn't like I've even said this in my lives with Ashley. When we do those, this isn't something along the lines of what we call the common phrase.

[00:42:01]

We heard when we hear about police brutality in this country where it seems to be like, oh, it's just a couple of bad apples like. It's I'd say it's 50 50, this franchise of people that absolutely just stormed the Internet and shit all over these people as opposed to people that just either just watch it and never comment on anything, which is probably what most people should do. But the amount of hate that goes on people's captions on Instagram and the amount of hate that they receive.

[00:42:29]

Personally, we've seen numerous stories over the year. You know, Caitlyn on erm after the final rose had to talk about the death threat she's got. Rachel came on PETA's season of Women Tell All and had to read emails that some of the women received. I mean we just it's never ending. And, you know, you can't say anything about this franchise anymore with someone automatically assuming, you know, you hate them, even in a sarcastic, joking, tongue in cheek manner, you say anything that's remotely not positive and it's like, why do you hate them so much?

[00:43:02]

I mean, I've already gotten it this season and I'm just making and I'm just making jokes.

[00:43:06]

So, you know, and they're not even remotely remotely offensive jokes. But it's like and especially now with Tatia as the lead. I mean, forget it immediately with Teisha. You know, not being white, I'm immediately, you know, you're racist and you're oppressing the black woman if you make any negative comment towards her.

[00:43:27]

And I'm just like, look, she said something funny and I made fun of it, like, come on now. But, yeah, the the nature of this fan base have you seen. Am I the only one that seeing how bad it's gotten or have you seen that this is getting out of control with some of these people?

[00:43:44]

You know, I. I thought about this a lot. I absolutely think that there is a toxic streak within our nation of, as you said, fans who. Really go after people in a way that I think crosses the line, like I think that it's, you know, as commentators, so many of us watch this show to joke about it, to make fun of people, too, perhaps even like in some dark part of ourselves, feel like we're we're better than the people that we're watching.

[00:44:19]

I'm sure that that's a streak that that runs through all of us, myself included. But I think. You know, the way I think about it, obviously, like anything that is. Specifically targeting someone with cruelty in their digital space or anything, threatening any sort of violence or anything near that is way, way crossing the line. And I think. It's not necessarily specific to Bachelor Nation, like I think that this is the kind of thing you see happening in a lot of online fandoms and is yeah, there's sort of like a pocket always of any anything online that that gender is kind of intense loyalty and adoration.

[00:45:11]

And you always have people that are going to cross the line. And I think. What that speaks to is that The Bachelor franchise then perhaps has more of a responsibility, the more kind of online its contestants are on, the more that the show is dependent on this online fan base for its success, that they also have a greater responsibility maybe to offer guidance and protection and stand up for the people on the show. And I'm not sure that they've really figured that out yet.

[00:45:43]

I mean, we've seen that they finally banned hateful comments on, you know, The Bachelor Nation Instagram, but it doesn't seem like that same generation has really been applied to the official bachelor and bachelorette accounts. And so I think that that maybe that's like the more productive way to talk about this conversation, because I do think that that sort of toxicity is something that runs through all really intense online communities. And it is very frustrating and disturbing to me.

[00:46:14]

But I'm not sure how much. You outside of the way that we conduct these conversations and engage with those people when we do, I'm not sure how much we can control that.

[00:46:25]

Yeah. Yeah, Claire. Yes, go ahead, Claire. Yeah, no, I mean, I agree, I think that, you know, we get very invested and in these people, we have this like there are social relationships with people that we see on TV and and it becomes something that takes on much greater stakes in the minds of certain people than there's any real basis for. I mean, we even receive messages that are very angry that we are not harsher on Claire.

[00:47:04]

And we absolutely have been critical of Claire on the show. We've made fun of things that she has done like anyone else. We have criticized her for things she said or reactions that we thought were unjust. That's all part of part of the conversation. But people are very upset that we are not meaner to Claire while she is getting, you know, targeted harassment online.

[00:47:31]

It doesn't maybe seem like the most beneficial use of our commentary.

[00:47:37]

And I think that that that upsets people to a degree that I find very confusing, because if you if you really step back and look at what the worst thing anyone on this show has ever really done, it's typically something that even if it were your friends ex, you would not invest as much time and energy and being angry at them. You know, the level of vitriol because you are perhaps rude to a group of men once or because you got into a relationship too quickly.

[00:48:12]

I mean, these are not things that justify anger or moral condemnation right now that we see. So I always find it important to push back on that. But it's yeah, it's absolutely not something that I think even the show can control, although there are things that they can they can do. I think that this is just a nasty strand of human nature that is enabled by the ways that the platforms that we discuss these things on.

[00:48:42]

Yeah, it's weird just to look, you can dislike Claire for whatever reason you may have. Maybe you're just sick of the fact that she got a fifth chance on this franchise, which is perfectly that seems to be a lot of people's arguments, like why did she get a fifth chance? That's fine. But I think your argument can just kind of end at that. Why does it have to turn into die bitch, you know, like it does?

[00:49:09]

It just makes zero sense. And like you said, that anybody, you know, until that there until there are laws established in the United States, which it's not going to happen because we're not going to turn in to China. I mean, if you if you're in China and you write a tweet, you know, against the leader of that country, you will be arrested like it's not that's not out of it. That's not its only function over there.

[00:49:33]

But until that happens out here, which will never happen, anybody can hopefully not.

[00:49:39]

Hopefully anybody can get away with saying stuff online that is threatening harmful outside of a terrorist threat. I think you can't be arrested if you put a terrorist threat out in a tweet or an Instagram message. But I'm talking about stuff like this, like there's no consequences for someone to either D.M. someone personally or put on their caption, you know, you're a stupid bitch. I hope you die. Why did you let all the guys on, you know, whatever they were saying?

[00:50:04]

I mean, we've seen it all since this started. And, yeah, there's really nothing to it. Maybe your account gets suspended, but you're just going to if you're that angry, you're just going to sign back up so you can, you know, level more vitriol at other people under a different email address.

[00:50:19]

So, yeah, I just I don't understand it, but we know it goes on. And like you said, I don't know what they can do to control it really.

[00:50:28]

And, um, but as as a contestant on this show, I don't know. What do you we obviously know that's not fair game. You shouldn't be able to you shouldn't be level that type of criticism.

[00:50:45]

But what what do you think is fair game when it comes to contestants who do enter themselves on this show? Not in terms of criticism, because they're going to get it regardless if their hair is out of place or someone doesn't like their hair color, they'll say something about it, but. Do you think anything? You know what? What do you consider is off limits? I'll start with you, Emma. What do you consider you think is off limits when it comes to once you sign up for this show and you are a contestant and your show airs?

[00:51:17]

It's like I'm almost warning them every season. Look, I know there are a lot of perks that come with this, but you better be prepared for things that are going to be said about you that just aren't true and you're going to have to deal with it.

[00:51:31]

Do you mean, like, what should be off limits? Yeah, just like commentators to criticize.

[00:51:36]

Well, not even us. Well, us as commentators, but also anybody common, you know, commentating. But I guess you could start with us as commentators. Sure. I mean. It's hard for me to identify specific things outside of like I always feel like it's. I don't want to criticize people for things that. As someone with a platform for things like their physical appearance, you know, outside of maybe a joke about a fashion sense or something like that, but I think, like talking about people's bodies in a derogatory or objectifying way is to generally be out of line for for professional commentators, I think.

[00:52:30]

I guess I always try to think about it like how can we criticize what we are seeing presented by the show? Because in a way that, yes, might indict the person who's who's like the avatar of that behavior, but also indicting what the message of that public performance is sending to the viewers. And I think framing it in that way tends to be more productive because it's not just like, why is this person such a mean asshole for doing this thing?

[00:53:06]

It's like, OK, this person behaved in this way. What message does that send to the audience? Does it send a message that, you know, women are inherently more dramatic or weaker or more desperate?

[00:53:22]

Does it send a negative message about what someone can handle depending on their age? Does it send a negative message about masculinity and the ways that masculinity can be fleeced? And I feel like approaching your criticism from that vantage point tends to then cut out comments that I would consider to be like beyond the pale, just pure cruelty. Yeah, I guess that's how I think about it. But I absolutely think that for contestants, they have to know that there are no rules of engagement, unfortunately.

[00:54:03]

And so there is inevitably a mental health toll, I think, to just appearing on this show.

[00:54:11]

And that's certainly an insight that we've gotten having now spoken to a critical mass of people who have gone through the show. Yeah, yeah, go ahead, Claire. Yeah, I agree with that, I think, you know. Certain things are, you know, not everyone can or will or even necessarily should approach commentary about the show purely through a lens of like what's the most moral, ethical way I can comment on this? Fun is also a part of this and like fun as part of our show.

[00:54:44]

But also, you know, a lot of people are just tweeting or chatting with their friends and like fun is the main objective, and that's fine. We definitely talk to people who have been on the show who really struggled with what they faced, but who also said, you know, before I went on, I did the same stuff. When I watched the show, I made the same jokes and it was fun. And eventually they start doing it again.

[00:55:09]

So it's just part of human nature. Like we all like to make fun and no one likes to be made fun of like a fox. It's something that you definitely have to be prepared for. And but I would say that over time, the longer that I've done this and the more that I've seen the impacts, the more I do try to gravitate toward thinking more in terms of like what is something that if I don't make fun of it, if I don't call it out, will cause harm that is greater than letting it go in a sense, you know, like it.

[00:55:47]

What is or where does the responsibility to just be nice to the contestants and then the responsibility to be like, hey, we should be looking at this behavior that's been presented to us more critically again. And it's imperfect. And I definitely fail to do it nimbly all the time. But yeah, trying to look at just like what messages are being sent by the show is is the way that I typically try to to go by it and yet not make fun of people for things they can't control or that are stigmatized.

[00:56:27]

Right. Obviously, I, you know, is not sitting on someone for their like identity, for example. Yeah. A big, big role of art. And also, I just want to echo clarinet like I in a way that I am like perfect shining beacon example. Like, we have certainly missed that and we make the calls that we think are the most responsible or reflect our opinions and that that like, sometimes they're the right ones, sometimes they're the wrong ones.

[00:56:56]

Like, look, people step in it. But I think if we're all just trying to come from a place of, like, genuine good fun with this show rather than you kind of checking our potential over investment in these people or questioning if we are becoming so overly angry, like, why are we why is that like invoking that response? And maybe just like stepping back from it for a moment, like we all have these reactions, but you can also be pissed at someone and in your head be like, I hate this person, and then you don't have to, like, post it on their Instagram.

[00:57:36]

Yeah, yeah.

[00:57:36]

Even the people I've been Masad on the show and have been most horrified by the behavior of I have never wanted them to deal with targeted harassment or death threats on any platform like that's not a healthy way for people who are being harmful to, you know, address their behavior or to improve or to find a healthier spot. So that's yeah. Once that's driving that kind of response and it seems like a useful way to or even a fun way to engage with that kind of thing.

[00:58:09]

Yeah, there's certainly a line there of entertaining by a podcast or a column or whatever it may be, versus crossing a line of is it you know, to mean I mean, it's it's going to if you're poking fun, some people are going to think of it automatically is just, oh, that's mean.

[00:58:29]

But it's just like but they went on the show, they open themselves up to criticism. The second you go on the show, a very popular show that's been around 40 seasons. Seventeen years, like you're going to have people that have an opinion and some just take it way too far. And, you know, last thing I wanted to talk about in terms of what you guys do and kind of what I do is that you guys certainly over the years have been sent stories, rumors that people have said they've either wanted you to report on or, hey, I know this about this person or whatever.

[00:59:09]

How have you guys chosen to handle something that has been told to you in private? But they I mean, it's told you in private, but they want it kind of out there. Is it just a case by case basis with you or how does it how have you handled it in the. And what would you say is like. One of the bigger things that you were presented that you either decided to run with or said. No, not going to touch that.

[00:59:40]

I mean, I think that we get in, that we are journalists, that we are a part of a national news organization. I think we definitely take that responsibility really, really seriously. And so does really fall on a case by case basis. I mean, I think we have to think the idea like, is this newsworthy and newsworthy? Like what will the impact, possible impact be of running a story about a specific individual on a national scale?

[01:00:14]

Is this person really a public figure? Do whatever claims that we're hearing sound credible? Is the person making those claims are willing to put their their name out there? And again, like all of these things don't necessarily like a story can be fully true and believable, but also not the national news story that you're right. And and so I think that that is just like a case by case dance that we do where we look at each story that might come our way and we speak to each other and to our editor and we talk about like, OK, what is the impact of this going to be?

[01:01:04]

And does that feel like it makes sense and will add value into the world if if that makes sense?

[01:01:13]

I think one story that we did end up running with was I believe we were the first national outlet to report on the fact that Gary Irigoyen had like a bunch of really bigoted Instagram posts. Yeah. And I think the way that we decided that that was, in fact, nationally newsworthy was in part because we knew that he was going to be a front runner and we knew that he was going to receive the first impression, Rose. And it felt like, OK, if this person is going to be portrayed on a very large scale as the romantic ideal, but the show has failed to vet him in in these ways.

[01:02:05]

In a moment, in American culture, where there is like a rise in hate crimes and a rise in disinformation, then it feels like an important conversation to have. And so we did end up moving forward with that and publishing it. Yeah, I would say that, you know, I think probably you probably get more tips like this because you like the grand master of bachelor leagues and that's that's an incredible thing to tell. But so I'm sure you have a much more frequently used and elaborate process.

[01:02:46]

I think that's right. What Emma says and also because of our situation and like and help us, you know, if someone were to tell us something and wouldn't want to go on the record or tell our story, but kind of just want us to give a bad impression that's not we can't really like. Do an anonymous source story like that, that that doesn't really have corroboration, so we would typically have to go based on what was publicly available in order to to give commentary.

[01:03:26]

And and often when we do get to like like it is things that have already had some tweets or some Reddit or some social media around it. People people talk. And that's usually the basis of of anything we discuss publicly.

[01:03:44]

Yeah. I mean, I get a lot of stuff and I probably post one out of every. I don't know, 15 or 20 things that are sent to me in regards to somebody, because it's it's more about at this point and I'll be the first to admit years ago, I probably would have jumped on it right away. I just in recent years, I've started to realize that you can't just run. I've always known you can't just run with everything.

[01:04:16]

I needed some sort of proof. But in more recent years, with some serious matters coming up, it's just like. Honestly. It sounds bad, but there is a pecking order when it comes to the show, and if someone tells me that a guy or a girl on this show. I'm just thinking off the top of my head here, just, oh, he you know, the whole thing of girlfriend before the show, that's a big one, obviously, with Hannah Brown season, that played a major role because Jen was the final one.

[01:04:49]

If someone tells me that about a guy who goes home on night one, I'm just in the past, I probably would have said something. Now I don't report it. And I've heard it every season.

[01:04:58]

I've heard it with some of those guys and I just haven't reported it because it's like, look, every one of these guys, especially for Claire Taisha season, because. They had a four month wait, you can't tell me that none of these guys, every single guy put their life on hold for four months and did not talk or text or have flirty conversations or hell even send dick pics because some of them damn well did during those four months. That doesn't mean that when they went on the show that what they did during those four months is like this big deal.

[01:05:35]

And again, it depends. There is a pecking order. If it's somebody that is insignificant to the season, why even put it out there? It's just like it's just going to cause a bunch of a stir that doesn't need to be stirred. But if it's somebody that is relevant to the season, absolutely it becomes a storyline. And the biggest example I can give of this was, you know, what happened with Victoria Fuller last season. And, you know, I was told about that stuff about Victoria two weeks before the season started.

[01:06:01]

And I specifically told them, look.

[01:06:04]

I'll get back to you one. Let's see how far she goes and then if this becomes an issue, then we'll report it. And then not only did it become an issue, but it became a storyline on the show.

[01:06:14]

So I knew that it was relevant and the show knew it was relevant because they made a storyline out of it about, you know, they had one of Peter's exes who lived in Virginia Beach, you know, come on the show and warn him about her and then the chase. Right. Date and everything. So, yeah, it became relevant. But, you know, I I'm trying to think of a way to say this.

[01:06:39]

But I don't I don't feel we need to hide it, we're going to get into details about it, but. Do you guys know what I've reported about this season, which is a woman has come forward with allegations in the past and those allegations were brought to the attention of Insec, which is the production company behind the show, their legal team. This woman spoke to their legal team for 90 minutes three weeks ago, three and a half weeks ago now.

[01:07:09]

And as far as we can tell, the show has done nothing about it. I have still been in contact with her since her conversation with them. And you were the first people I came to and said, well, what would you think about doing a story about this? And we've gone over it and the woman has basically decided not to attach her name to it, which she has every right to.

[01:07:33]

And yeah, she does what she does want to come forward. So now the story is you guys can't run with what I reported. And I get that because she can't she is choosing not to come forward and. And like I said, she's allowed to because this is a big it's was a big deal in her life that happened and she doesn't want to, but. It's a really tricky situation now that we're dealing with because. One outlet me, is reporting that this show is now well aware of allegations made against easy, yet they're continuing their show and putting him in their edit like nothing has happened.

[01:08:15]

I don't know what I don't know what to do at this point. And other than talk about it and bring it up and say they know, they know. And you're seeing his edit. So you make a decision on what they think about women who come forward and accuse men on the show of something fairly serious.

[01:08:32]

So I don't know. Is there is there any other way to look at this? Is there any other way to get this out there or what?

[01:08:39]

I mean, I, I think what you're saying is, in effect, correct. Like what you can do with someone with a platform is to talk about it and have clarified, like, you know, we have addressed what the information that is publicly available on our podcast.

[01:08:59]

And I think it's worth talking about and absolutely worth questioning why more hasn't been done or more and more effort wasn't made to.

[01:09:13]

Edit this person out of the show a little more, not least not lean on his commentary as much, I mean, yeah, I also it's it's a tough thing because understandably and like I have done a fair amount of reporting on these two type of stuff and something that I always tell people who come forward who may or may not be sure that they want to move forward with the story is, is that they this is their story and they're in the driver's seat and that there are specific.

[01:09:50]

Processes that as a national news outlet, we have to go through in order to be buttoned up enough to make, you know, to put a serious, potentially criminal allegation out there about a person that's a serious, big thing to do.

[01:10:10]

And that is not necessarily a reflection of the veracity of their story. And if they feel uncomfortable or traumatised by that process, then like there is no judgment and that is their prerogative. And, you know, as journalists, I think we generally believe that sunlight is the best disinfectant. But that also has a real impact on on the people who come forward and tell their stories. And there are no guaranteed outcomes. So, you know, I think.

[01:10:45]

It's just good for poor people to bear in mind that there are lots of reasons that someone may or may not feel comfortable moving forward with that sort of public attention to something that's been traumatic for them. And it is not you know, it can't all fall on one individual to be sort of like the martyr that pushes, you know, these big production companies or big corporations to to get their shit together. And that that just has to come from those of us who have platforms kind of asking for them to take that responsibility over and over and over again.

[01:11:30]

Yeah. And that's and that's really all I can say up to this point is just. Hey, she spoke to them and you're seeing his edit through six episodes, so. There's there isn't much else to say, and you just kind of you kind of hope that things maybe change it didn't last night. If they haven't done it by now, they've had their four episodes of aired since they spoke with her. So it doesn't look like anything is changing.

[01:12:04]

And unfortunately, she's has to deal with that. And she you know, I enjoyed speaking with her. I absolutely, you know, believe her side. But again, in a situation like this. I think there will always be doubters, and I think the problem with that is the reason, the fact that there will always be doubters and there will always be people that say, well, why didn't you say something earlier or whatever is the exact reason why she didn't want to come out?

[01:12:43]

You know, it sucks. It really does. And I'm glad that there are outlets that will draw attention to it. I remember when you guys did the Garrett stuff because, you know, Ashley had passed it on. Do you guys believe it was actually that did that because she was actually found anything?

[01:13:00]

Yeah, and it's that that became that became a thing and it was relevant. And I you know.

[01:13:09]

It's just it's just it's really it's a really weird position to be in, and it's just it's difficult because not everything is so black and white. You know, there's grey areas involved here. And what you can actually do is so important for Bachelor Nation and so valuable and, you know, we we do, as I said.

[01:13:33]

Draw that one when we're talking about what's going on in the show and there are things that might not be able to publish or things that, you know, may not be convincing to bachelor production, that you need to change what they're doing. But no one is. What I go back to is that no one is entitled to to fame or to go in public commentary or to that kind of celebrity attention. And if we hear things or if we hear from you and Ashley on your site and your podcast and your coverage, or if we see allegations and we might not be able to to go anywhere with those in every case, but but we can, you know, decline to push our people who have these allegations with a lot of positive attention.

[01:14:34]

And it's a very imperfect way of addressing a situation. Like you said, there are a lot of grey areas. It's often murky. You know, we don't always know what what the actual story is and we may never know more in certain cases. But what we do try just to bear in mind that, yeah, no one is entitled to. So lots of positive attention. And if all we can do is, is bring up what's out there and and then quietly kind of put that person to the side, sometimes that's that's all we can do.

[01:15:18]

Yeah. Like I said, it's a slippery slope. Sometimes it's never black and white. And, you know, it just it is difficult to cover certain stories on this show because you immediately open yourself up to a giant criticism, whether it's me or you guys running with something. I'm sure people weren't thrilled that you ran with Garrett stuff because they thought it was unimportant or stupid or.

[01:15:41]

Oh, he just he accidentally double tapped it.

[01:15:43]

And it's like, OK, that many saw one hundred of them really like I mean, also I'm just going to say with the Garrett stuff seems that we were proven right in the long run. Yeah, exactly.

[01:15:57]

So I mean it's yeah. It's just it's tough. I know people think like, you know. Yeah. I mean my main job is just to give spoilers and recap the show and do podcast and just kind of make fun of silly things. But there are certain issues that come up. Seemingly it seems to happen a lot more often recently that we're where someone comes to me and wants me to cover something a little more deeper, a little more serious about this show.

[01:16:23]

And I have to make a determination of. Is it worth it? Do I have enough evidence here, do I run with it? And like I said, most of the stuff I don't and some of the most of the stuff I just choose not to or I might pass it on somewhere else.

[01:16:42]

I just I just know that it's it's a heartache to cover all this stuff sometimes, because no matter what you do, even if you think you're doing the right thing, plenty of people will look at it as why did you why are you writing this? Why are you putting this out there, giving this person a platform, whatever the case may be. So, you know. Right.

[01:17:02]

You know, it's we can all just do the best we can with with what we have. And I think like as people with platforms, like we're all open to people telling us when we've done the right or wrong thing. And like, that's a responsibility that we will all bear.

[01:17:17]

And yeah, I think we're all just trying our best and the fear of our Lord 20/20. No kidding.

[01:17:27]

Well, Emma Claire, thank you so much for coming on. I'm glad I was able to get you both on this. I'm sorry, Claire, but again, I really appreciate it. You guys, obviously, you Huffington Post contributors, you have you're here to make friends podcast. Check them out there. And you guys, again, thanks for coming on. I appreciate it. And we'll definitely have you guys on in the future.

[01:17:51]

This was so much fun. Thank you. Thank you so much for having us. You got it. Thanks. Thank you so much to Emma and Claire for coming on, check them out on the Here to Make Friends podcast and they write for Huffington Post. A good discussion and I didn't know if I was going to bring it up at the end. But I will say that the woman in question that I've been talking about all season that spoke to SMK, I.

[01:18:24]

We were in the process of putting them because I said, look, it doesn't look like ABC is changing anything about ease's edit unless a major outlet runs with this. But I didn't really have any contact. You know, it's not going to run with this because they and E and US Weekly and people, they have too much of a relationship with that show. It's going to have to be like a good size, like Huffington Post. So I went to Emma and I said, look, what do I do here?

[01:18:47]

And she said, you know, it's explained to me, look. She would need to go on record. We can't throw out an allegation against somebody, even if the person tells us every detail in private but doesn't want their name used, we can't do it. And honestly. And so, yeah, she just at the time. Doesn't want her name out there and doesn't want to have to deal with the backlash. She knows she's going to get, which is something I told her from the very beginning, because in the very beginning, I think she was willing to talk the next day after the show premiered and not like I talked her out of it.

[01:19:20]

But I did say, I hope you know what this will entail and there will be people telling you you're a liar. There will be people calling you names.

[01:19:28]

There will be people saying you're out for fame or money or whatever the case may be. You just have to be prepared.

[01:19:34]

Your your privacy is will be thrown out the window the second you go public with this and. Took a while to sit on it, and I think I think she's still sitting on it. I honestly don't know what's going to happen. So we'll see. But anyway, thanks to Emma and Claire for coming on, I appreciate it. Please subscribe and review an Apple podcasts. Much appreciated. And we will be back next week with yet another podcast. So for Emma and Claire Emigrate and I like to emigrate clearfelling inreality.

[01:20:11]

Steve, thank you very much for tuning in to talk to you next week. Tim.