You are listening to their Reality Steve podcast with your host Reality Steve, he's got all the latest info and behind the scenes juice on Matt season of The Bachelor and interviewing some of your favorite reality stars. Now, here's a reality, Steve. What's up, everybody, welcome to podcast number two two two two 22 of the reality podcast.

I'm your host reality Steve. Great show for you today. It is with Taylor Knowland.

You've probably seen her all over social media more recently when this Chris Harrison stuff broke, but she's been all over it on social media ever since this summer. She's been one of the more outspoken, if not the most outspoken spoken person of color in this franchise since this summer. And we will get to her momentarily. I'll give you a few notes on that in a minute. A couple of things to get to, though, before we get started. Because of the.

Weather we're having in Dallas, we had to cancel Ashlynn, I had to cancel our Tuesday night Instagram live, we're doing it tonight, same time, 8:00 Eastern, 7:00 Central, 6:00 Mountain, 5:00 Pacific live on my Instagram account. Reality, Steve. Just got pushed back two days because on Tuesday, I was still going through power outages, basically every hour I was like 45 minutes to an hour of no power and then power's on, but I have not had a power outage.

Fingers crossed. Knock on wood. Since Tuesday at about five p.m., so about 30 straight hours now of not having a power outage, so I'm happy about that.

Although people of Houston, the people of Austin hearing the stories down there is awful. If you want to know how you can help, I would follow Ashley Spivvy and the amount of information she's putting out in regards to how you can help people of Austin and Houston who are literally have been out without power for three to four days and living at home with no power. I saw a guy on Facebook that I know is talking about how he's going to bed tonight.

You can see his breath and just, you know, f bombing. The. People out there, the energy companies out there that totally screwed this up, but we're not going to get into. That, but if you want to donate, there are plenty of places where you can help out if you're down in those areas and you you do have power, I don't think there are many. But if you do and you want to help out, there's plenty of places where you can help out fellow Ashley Spivvy on Instagram and she's sending out a lot of stuff.

Also, in addition to tonight's Live, I want to talk to you about Temptation Island as we know it kicked off this past Tuesday night. We met the four couples and I hope you enjoyed the episode.

It got it. Whet your appetite a little bit. You know, the four couples now, I'm sure you've already formed opinions on who you think is cheating and who you think is going to break up and who's going to have a girl on girl hookup or who's involved in the threesome. I don't know any answers. I'm only. Last year, they had about three to four episodes they would put up on the media site that I got to see beforehand, so I was about three to four episodes ahead of everybody else.

They're only posting one episode a week now.

So I see it on Friday. Maybe it comes out on Friday. I usually watch it over the weekend. So I do not know even though what happens in episode two. But check it out. It's on the USA Network Ten nine Central every Tuesday night. I'll be tweeting about it during it, giving you updates, reminding you on my Instagram story as well to tune in, because it's such a it's such an interesting show.

Is it crazy for any couple in a relationship to be like, yeah, I want to go to Hawaii and be tempted by 12 good looking people of the opposite sex? Yes, it's crazy. And you shouldn't do it, but it's damn good entertainment. And that's why we watch, because we really want to see what happens with these couples. And honestly, I don't want to know spoilers. Starting next week, we're going to start having contestants on to talk about their time on the show.

Sometimes it'll be the podcast of the week and sometimes it'll be on the back end of whoever I decide to interview that week. So I think next week we're having one of the couples on. I just don't know which one just yet, but.

Check that out, USA Network, Tuesday nights, ten, nine, Central Temptation Island, Season three, it looks great by the promos. This interview with Taylor Noland is over an hour and a half long and we cover everything. I mean, we're talking. Everything involved with the Christesen side of things, Rachel Kirkconnell, accountability versus Council culture. The statements being put out by people in Batcheller Nation and Taylor doesn't hold back, I mean, a lot of the stuff if you followed Taylor, you probably have heard her say and honestly, you know, I've heard Taylor say it over the last few weeks that we've been talking a lot off camera are off Mike.

The amount of conversation that Taylor and I had have been a lot. And but just talking about everything involved with the interview and involving Chris Harrison and Rachel Lindsey and Chris's role with the show and where she thinks what she thinks should happen now and look.

We even talk about the fact that just the fact that some of you, I guarantee when you saw that Taylor Nolan was my podcast yesterday, probably roll your eyes and say, oh, great, more talk, more black this and white white supremacy this and white privilege that.

Yeah. I guarantee some of you did that. I know you did, and that's where you're wrong and that's where you're being very close minded and frankly, you're being racist. There's no other way to look at that, why, when you hear Taylor Nolan's name, do you immediately roll your eyes? I want and if you do, please have a civil conversation with me and tell me. Exactly what she is saying in this podcast or something she said on Instagram live, what she's saying that you think is 100 percent wrong and.

Because she she just has so many great points about what's going on right now and the way BIPAC contestants in this franchise are being treated and have been treated, I just I don't know how you can dispute that. If Bayport contestants are coming out and saying we don't like we don't feel comfortable on this show. We don't like Chris Harrison. I don't know how you can dispute that because you like Chris Harrison and you think he does a great job on the show.

That's great. You're white. You don't have it. He doesn't affect your life. I mean, there's there's a lot of layers that we get into on this. But I really want you to pay attention. And I also I tweeted this out and I put it on my Instagram story last night. I really want you to listen to the Higher Learning podcast with Rachel Lindsey and Van Lathan, her co-host that they put out on Tuesday. It's the Higher Learning podcast, it's Tuesday's episode where they talk about the fallout from Chris's apology.

And again, the first 30 minutes are all about Chris and everything he said and why it was so wrong, because trust me, there's a lot of people and there's a lot of you probably listening right now.

They're like, what's the big deal? I didn't get any I didn't think it was a big deal. What he said. I've seen it on social media. I've got it in the Dems. There's a lot of you that think that way. I think you need to listen. To and, you know, again, I know you like don't make this a race thing, but this is a race thing. If you're a white person, you know, and your response to Christesen is I don't see what the big deal is, you need to listen to black people talk about why what Chris Harrison said was racist and ignorant.

It doesn't matter that you as the white person, don't find a big deal in it. It offended a lot of people because it didn't offend you. Does not mean it's not ignorant and racist. That's a big thing that I'm seeing that just I don't get it. And when you hear Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsey talk about it on their podcast, when you hear Taylor on her Instagram live talking to Michaela from The Black Bachelorette's, you kind of understand you get a better understanding because they're the people that it affects and they go into detail about why it affects them and why what he said is wrong.

But if you're just going to turn your mouth, your brain off because, oh, on air, it is a white supremacy this and black people that and. I'm sorry, that's a that's a really, really narrow-Minded view of things and and what Ashley and I are trying to do and even what Taylor and I, you know, I don't know. I don't have all the answers.

I'm white, so I'm trying to bring on people who can maybe explain it better than I can. But Taylor, is Taylor so good? She's. And she definitely has some some strong opinions at the end of the podcast, I think the last 15 or 20 minutes we talk about her only fans. And if you are not a fan of sex work and you're not a fan of sexual terms, then you might want to shut that portion off because Taylor doesn't hold back either on her only fans account.

So just wanted to give you a heads up, but here we go.

Podcast number two. Twenty two. It's a great one with Taylor. No. One.

OK, let's bring her in. You first saw her on Nick Viall season of The Bachelor, then that one season of Paradise that we would most likely just both rather forget. And but mostly, you know, her for the content that she's been putting out on her social media pages for the last God year or two years, but mostly since this summer. It is. It is. Taylor Nolan Taylor, thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having me.

Thanks for being open to have all these really weird, wild conversations.

Well, you know what the thing is like. You and I have spoken so much in the last two weeks, I almost feel like I could have just recorded any one of those phone calls and just played that as a podcast. Like we didn't even need to do this. I feel like you and I are going to be repeating so many things that we've talked about privately for the last two weeks. Yeah, it's like, OK, I think it's good.

I think it's good because I don't think your listeners know that you have these conversations.

No, they don't. I think they have an idea of what they they think I know, but or they think they know. But no, they don't.

And I don't even I mean, look, I don't even want this to be much of a of a just a question and answer thing I kind of want to go is one of our conversations that we've had in the last couple of weeks, just like, hey, let's just kind of talk about some things that obviously are going on in the franchise and whatnot. I don't even know what a starting point would be since there's so many things. And I know that you and here's the first topic I guess we can discuss is I know you're tired of talking about this.

Like I know you're tired of it based on your Instagram stories, the things that you write because of this notion that, oh, there's a race issue in relation. Let's run to Rachel Lindsey and Taylor Nolan and see what they have to say.

And I mean or hey, it's only me and Rachel saying something about it and nobody else is. And what the heck? Why are we the only ones carrying this massive burden?

Yeah, I mean, Mike, you had Mike Johnson on your podcast. You spoke to him recently and you guys discussed it as well. He's starting to be more vocal as well. He went on Rachel's extra show to to give his thoughts a couple of days ago. But I mean, as a person, he was he was amazing.

I had to pull myself together several times during that episode. Like during that recording, I was just like, wow, they fucked up.

Yeah, no, I mean, he and I don't know if you saw but I haven't watched the interview yet.

No, not that one I'm even talking about. I mean he was great with Rachel anextra but even the the Demario interview, I don't know if you saw it with Demario said oh oh he absolutely laid into Chris Arrison and basically oh gosh I love the email.

Said he's an asshole. And he always had it out for him, for a guy he met like three times in his life. He really he really did not have a lot of nice things to say.

And I mean, this is this is the thing that I think, like a lot of people don't get is like they watch the show when they think Chris is like this, a legend on the show. Most people don't have a good interaction with Chris.

And I hate like one of the No. One questions I get when people meet me, it's like, oh, my God, what's Chris Harrison like? Oh, my God, I can't believe you got to be Chris Harrison. And I'm like, he's an asshole. Don't I don't want to talk about Chris Harrison. Like, no, he was not enjoyable to be around. I did not feel comfortable. And, you know, for Dimo to share and be honest with what his experience was, I'm so happy that he was honest because these are the things that a lot of people feel like they can't say because people don't want to hear the truth and they want to try to make it out that like, these are lies when they're not.

And honestly, it doesn't make people feel comfortable being on the show. And this is why he needs to be fired. And he should have been fired a long time ago because he does not make people feel comfortable and safe, especially black people, especially nonwhite contestants on the show don't feel comfortable around him before all this. And now especially with this like, fuck, now, what is it in speaking with?

Contestants, people of color from this show, black contestants, Asian contestants, that seems to be the sentiment that's coming out now. Now that it's almost like I've I've likened this to the Tiger Woods situation, where once one woman came forward and said, you know what, I was sleeping with him, and then 15 other women came forward. And ever since Chris had this interview with Rachel, it's kind of opened up. This portal of a lot of people of color from this franchise are now speaking out and feeling comfortable saying, yeah, you know what?

I didn't feel safe on that show. And granted, maybe it took this interview to do that. And if this interview doesn't happen, it probably doesn't happen. But again, it's no different than what happened this summer, that it led us to start having these conversations. And now we're dealing with something within the franchise. But when you say that, I don't know what is what is the impression that you get or what are the specifics that you're getting from people, the people of color in this franchise?

Why are they not comfortable around him? Have they said. What it is, it makes him an asshole or why why they feel like he's just not championing for them, I guess, huh?

So a lot of this is subtle. A lot of this are the small the small micro aggressions. Right, that I think. People of color can pick up on they they can pick up on that tone, right? They can pick up on that subtext like there's a lot of white people that watch that interview with him and Rachel and think that he said everything totally fine. Black people, people of color, they pick up on all the subtext of all the shit that he was saying without saying.

So, I don't think I don't know from other people. Like what specifically if he ever said something. But it's in the way he carries himself. Like, I know there are other white contestants who don't like him and who feel really uncomfortable around him, that he thinks he's literally untouchable. He thinks he's the hottest, like most important person and is not doesn't actually feel like he's guiding us in any direction. Right. That's really not his job.

He's a host and who, frankly, doesn't really seem like he actually wants us there, whether that's from statements that he's made in the past. Right. Of when he was on here to make friends podcast and asked about black man having a black lead.

Yeah, he did it with an interview with a black woman at some press event as well. And it's just like, what are you saying? But again, as he represents the franchise and when our franchise hasn't been inclusive or representative, that also is a reflection of of him in some ways. So, I mean, I don't know if I told you this, but after women tell all I learned, first of all, just the way that he treated Caran versus how he treated me, just in even the way that he asked questions was very different.

Granted, he's got a had an earpiece and people are telling him things. But still, I was told by someone else who was doing press that they heard him say in his mic during the commercial break with Corren that he had leaned over and was like, don't worry. You know, like we've got your back. Like, you're going to be totally good. We've got you.

So it's like all the little and people see the eye when filming, right? They see how he treats other contestants versus how he treats the people of color on the show. And it's just it's all very subtle, but like we feel it.

Yeah. I mean, I think with so many people coming out and, you know, the last week or so, because Chris did that interview with Rachel last Tuesday, started to pick up steam that night, Wednesday, it started to get a lot of backlash.

And then Wednesday is when he released his first apology, which we now know to be complete bullshit, because Rachel said on her podcast on Thursday, I don't really dig that apology. I'm not feeling that apology because after we finished that interview, he texted me privately and was just like, hey, great interview. Glad we can just civilly disagree on things and did not think he did anything wrong. So if you didn't think you did anything wrong privately, then why are you apologizing next day?

It's because he was getting heat the second he posted it.

It was bullshit. Yeah. He's never used that kind of language before. He didn't understand. And I'm sure he's maybe he's starting to understand, but he preached that people needed time for these things and he put out that bullshit statement less than twenty four hours after the interview. I know that man did not take any time. He is not humbly appreciative of being held accountable because all of what he spouted in that interview was his truth. That was his truth.

He was passionate, more passionate than any other time we have seen him speak on TV. He was the most passionate. And those thirteen minutes defending racism and white supremacy.

Yeah, yeah. I think it was it was telling. I mean, we don't need to break down the interview. If you haven't seen it by now, go watch it online. Just Google Chris Harrison, Rachel lindsy interview. But I think most people have seen it by now. And look, as this has come out and as we've gotten to talk about this and as it's become. National news, you know, you read the response on social media.

Well, read a lot of the comments. Under Chris's apology, there are way more people that think he did nothing wrong than people that think he did do something.

And and you know, what's so ridiculous is like I bet you he is Wissen. He is wishing that he would have waited to do that extra interview, which was not even actually for to talk about the show. But I bet you he's wishing he had waited to do that extra interview until after Rachel had put out her apology, her statement, because he defended it of her, that in her apology, she's like, don't defend this. This was wrong.

Yeah.

And and so it's like he already had people just because of the words he used and what he spoke on, he already had people just ready to be defending her and making it out to not be a big deal. And all of this when, you know, literally the fucking girl took accountability for it and she said this was wrong. And that doesn't my age and the time doesn't excuse it. And all this stuff, you know, like he. Yeah.

Rachel, Rachel's apology made his apology look even worse because his apology was, hey, man, I just I shouldn't have said that and I shouldn't have defended him and made his interview look worse, where Rachel was like, you know, I don't nothing I said was was right. It was wrong. I was it was racist.

And he was defending himself. It didn't make any sense. And I found and I think when you talk about Chris and you talk about the things that, like you said, you hear from other contestants and the things that you experience, and immediately we're getting to this because race is becoming such a big thing in the franchise. Now we're getting to this. Oh, well, he's not racist because of X, Y, Z. And I think people are seemingly forgetting that in there.

And this is the way I'm taking it. I think this is you and I've talked about this and how you feel as well. It's like racism isn't just saying the N-word, admitting you're a member of the Ku Ku Klux Klan or a proud Cowboys or or you you know, or you say bad things are you know, it's way more than that.

And I think that's you know, that's that's overt racism, what's happening. And that's our nation. And why Chris Harrison, people are like, why he didn't thank God I didn't see anything wrong with what he said. Yes, it's covert racism. That's that's the problem. And everybody seems to equate racism with outward emotions or outward actions that are just so over the top, like, oh, well, if I've never said the N-word, I can't possibly be racist or, you know, and I think that's where things are getting lost here.

And how do you describe that to somebody that, you know, gives the done what was wrong with A that I didn't I didn't see anything wrong there and tell them, Steve, we broke it down.

Tell them I tried, but you can still do it better.

Me know that was great. Yeah, that's absolutely true. Because we have this, like, image and our idea. I can't use words right now. We have this image in our head, right. Of what someone who's racist looks like. And until you are anti-racist, you are racist. Our entire culture is is rooted in white supremacy and white power.

So you can't be not racist. And that's not even enough. You can't be anti-racist unless you are actually putting in that work to go against those systems in which you benefit from, in which give you privilege and which give you power. And if you're not doing that, yeah, you're racist. It's not you don't got to be Lynch and people to be to be racist. And it's, again, not this like good, bad, like narrative of who you are as a human.

It's understanding that you've been conditioned by the culture and society and the systems that we that we have here and our world honestly, not just in America. And that doesn't have to be an individual personal thing.

Granted, that work starts at an individual level. Right. But it's not you are exclusively to blame for all of the racist shit that happens until your antiracist. Right. Like, you just have to understand how you benefited from it and start working against that. And most folks don't because they feel so entitled and they feel like, you know, privileged and they're blind to it. They literally think, like Chris Arrison, that he's untouchable. All right, let's talk about ship station, if you sell stuff online or definitely in the right business, it's more people are shopping online than ever.

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Steve, make ship happen. You know, you bring up the point about antiracist, which has become kind of a buzzword now in this franchise, and what is what is kind of happening, because I think it's been brought to the forefront mostly by by you and Rachel Lindsey and Ashley Spiri, because, frankly, I hadn't really thought about that until the ratings that you had given me with Robert D'Angelo. And so you want to talk about race? When I read that book, I it was just not something that was part of my vocabulary.

And I think a lot of people were having trouble understanding, well, and I've gotten this a lot and I've I've had a lot of people reach out to me since my lives with Ashley. And some of the stuff I've written for the last couple of weeks been like, I'm trying to be better. I'm trying to do I really enjoy what you guys are saying, because it's stuff, again, that I have not thought about, talked about. It's just not part of my everyday life because probably they hang around a bunch of white people.

So why would it be so? The anti-racist thing I'm getting this a lot is like, what can I do to be anti-racist? And is it a string of things? And how do I get out of this category of of I am a racist, but now. No, I'm not because I'm anti-racist. I think people are confused on what they can do or what the amount of things they can do to be anti-racist.

Well, first, I want to say I appreciate your acknowledging that it was not part of your vocabulary and it wasn't a part of my vocabulary until the last few years either.

Right. Because I also have grown up in this system in the same country and we don't receive proper education on these things for a reason. So it's OK for that to have not have been a part of your vocabulary, but then you put in that work. Right. And I think it's also important to understand when it's not a part of people's vocabulary. So when they put out a bullshit statement twenty four hours, less than 24 hours afterwards, using words like perpetuate racism when that's never been a part of their vocabulary, to be able to identify that and be like, well, that's bullshit, because that literally is not even how you speak, but you're asking like how you actually be anti-racist, how you actually practice being an ally.

Yeah. And I'm asking you, Steve, what do you think? How do you think you do that?

I mean, I think in recent weeks for me, it's just been learning more. I mean, growing up and, you know, pretty much all white culture and going to school with 95 percent of the classmates being white and being taught in school, everything from basically the white perspective, I never had any sort of semblance of what it felt like, what it felt like to live in and grow up as a black person in the United States. So it's just in these recent weeks, having listened to your podcast with Robin, having read the excerpts from her book, having read most of So you want to talk about race, these are things that I know I can do to at least better understand because I don't like I said, this actually happened this summer and I talked to you about it.

And I don't know if I've talked about it on this podcast, but I'll talk about it now. When everything happened this summer and I was just looking into it and just not trying to understand it from the other side and black person side, it was also along the lines of, gosh, I've just I don't know anything about it other than yeah, I went to school and played basketball with some black guys, but I don't know anything about their plight.

And the other thing was, I remember specifically I can't remember if you said it or somebody said it that said go through your phone right now, go through your contact list and tell me how many people are black that are in your phone. And I went through my phone and I had, I think, over 350 contacts in my phone and I counted nine black people and seven of them are people that I had on the podcast that whose names are just in my phone because I had to call them for the podcast.

And I probably haven't spoken to them since. It was literally you and one other person that I could consider somebody black that I speak to on a regular basis. And you and I didn't start talking about racial issues until this summer. Any any conversations you and I had in the past. We're strictly just about show stuff. You know, we were just talking about the show.

You would also ask about like relationships and healthy relationships.

And like when I first came on your first episode, the first episode of your show I was on, you were like very genuinely inquisitive and wanting to learn about, like, toxic relationships and healthy relationships. Then I think that is is part of what has made me feel open to having those conversations around race with you is knowing that when I say that you're not going to take it personally or like, yeah, I can throw a bunch of bullshit at me, like, you're going to be like, Oh, really?

OK, and then you're going to, like sit with that and then go back more with some kind of a reflection, but I do want to point out, I mean, yes, part of being anti-racist is educating yourself. Part of practicing being an ally is educating yourself. But it's also like. Making yourself uncomfortable, it's advocating for stuff when it's not in your best interest. It's, in my opinion, using the platform that you do have to actually thoroughly discuss things like this.

Right, to amplify those voices and to put things in your own words like these are all things I feel like I have been a broken record on that.

You know, you are taking intentional steps to practice. And I know we talk about like Chris's apology and all this, but and there's so many others, right? There's fucking Hannah Brown and Damián, like, it's just it's nonstop with this franchise. But I think the point that people are not paying as much attention to is the fact that ABC and Warner Brothers haven't said anything yet. And I think when it comes to anti-racism and allies ship here in regards to the franchise, folks need to actually be speaking up.

Folks, there needs to be accountability that actually has consequence, that this man does not need to continue to be in this position of power. Like he does not need to only step down. The ABC and Warner Brothers need to put out a statement and very soon and they need to fire him.

Yeah. See, this is this is what's really bizarre about all this is. The fact that this network, either ABC, which is the network, or Insec, which is the production company that produces the show, has yet to say a word about any of this.

Chris is the only black smoke they have never they won't say anything, which is I mean, I got to believe something's coming, but maybe it's not to help sell.

So he said in his statement, I consulted with Warner Brothers and ABC. Yeah, so. So then what do they have to say about this? They said, oh yeah. You know, if you want to step down, you know. Sure. If you want to step down for one episode because clearly you're not going to have a quote unquote debate where you are, quote unquote, lighting her to the fire, holding her to the fire, even though she's already been thrown to the lions.

And this poor girl, like, clearly you were not fucking ready to have any kind of conversation at after the final rose, which is why you are not fit for this position and you have failed repeatedly to hold and stand in the responsibility that this position holds.

So if they're not actually taking a stance anytime soon, if they're not actually, you know, giving him consequences for his actions, then honestly, I think you're going to be hard pressed to find people of color that want to participate in this franchise.

Yeah, I think honestly, I think that no, I think we've had enough.

I agree. And I don't know what's going to happen. Has his statement specifically said the wording he used was stepping aside for a period of time? Now, the only thing that has been concluded from that which he specifically mentioned was he's not going to be hosting the after the final rose. We know that The Bachelorette starts filming in a month. If this guy is back filming The Bachelorette in a month, I think it'll be a hollow statement because what did this guy learn in a month?

Nothing. I mean, these are these are 50 years of ingrained thoughts in his head and his beliefs. So you can't tell me coming back in a month to host Bachelorette, he's done the work needed to even change his mind. It's it's clearly not going to happen.

However, here's my question to you, because we don't know we just don't know right now what ABC's planning on doing, if this is going to be just an after the final rose thing, is it going to be after the final rose and bachelorette that he's off? Are we going include bachelor paradise in that? And maybe he comes back in September, six months from now, when he films Bachelor, when he films bachelor. Let's just say this franchise brings him back in September.

Let's just say Bachelor. Is there anything? That you would want to hear specifically from Chris to where you would feel at least. Remotely comfortable with OK. He's trying, he's learning, or is this a foregone conclusion he cannot be in your eyes, cannot be a part of this. I think you could certainly say some things that would feel like, OK, you're starting to get it, like, OK, sure, that's a step I don't think that would make up for anything.

And I don't think that would change my mind in feeling like he is still fit to hold the position because. He has had the position for however many years now and at this point like. They need there needs to be a message sent if this is just OK, you know, you put in the work to be antiracist, to be an ally like I'm sorry, but I I honestly don't think that that will then make him fit for this position.

Doesn't mean he can't do other things right. Or that he can't continue to work on himself and all of that. But I don't think it. We'll make him now the right man for the job. I think it would be. It would be a very minimal slap on the wrist if that were the case, if you just had to go away, do some trainings, say some things, maybe he has learned some staff and then he goes on, I don't think that's enough.

Yeah, and I think this brings us to the point of a major thing that's being brought up right now. And this is another argument that the pro Chris Harrison people are saying is cancer culture versus accountability. And a lot of people don't seem to understand that there's a shit ton of. Memes and Instagram stories and Instagram feed posts on the difference between accountability and council culture, the black shriller, it's so hard to pronounce that black schlereth black to Laurette's Bachelorette's.

Yeah, it's it's at the B.L. C.K. like, you know how civil rights it on Instagram. I've I've posted Mikaela's stuff. You have it all over yours. Actually Sparboe Raichel all posted these thanks from the black black blowoff. Forget it.

You know, just say put on the black fluorides. Yes. Well I think though the same people that don't understand accountability versus cancel culture and are automatically thinking this is cancel culture are the same people that don't think there was anything wrong with what he said in his interview.

Yeah, for sure. And I think the way to look at it is, you know, for.

I think when they all kind of like when people just see the word racism and they immediately think it's something that's overt, I just think the word cancel doesn't mean they're seeing the word cancel. And I be like, oh, he lost his job because, you know, he made a mistake. And it's just like, again, this wasn't a this isn't now. This wasn't one sentence. This was 13 minutes of him burying himself. This wasn't a mistake.

A mistake, as I've written, is locking your keys in your car, not a 30 minute interview that promotes ignorance and racism. So there's more to that. People have been fired for way less than what Chris did. So you can't say there's no precedent for this.

But, yeah, like you have said and so many people in Rachel have said, you just want him to be held accountable for what he did, what he has said. And if that accountability happens to be this guy loses his job, that doesn't make it cancel culture. But people are having a hard time understanding that. Now, and it's so hard for folks to understand racism when it's not in your face, right? Yeah, yeah. That's the yet me saying, you know, I'm not watching tonight, but I'm rooting for everybody black.

I then get attacked, that I'm being racist, that that's racist. A reverse racism isn't real. But B, if you think that me saying something so vague in that way of just not being anti black, it's literally just me uplifting blackness is racist. Then how in the fuck are all these other micro aggressions not considered racist in your minds? Because it doesn't benefit you? I, I think there's so many different guy, there's so many different angles of this.

And every time you give an answer, I start going off in a different tangent as well.

But the one thing I want to talk about now in regards to this and accountability versus council culture is kind of the racial aspect of it.

Rachel Kirkconnell, not Rachel Lindsey, because the Rachel Kirkconnell aspect of it has kind of gotten lost because of what Chris did. I mean, this was all for six weeks. It was oh, my God, she liked a picture of it with her friends, with the Confederate flag in the background. And she posted a Kuhnen thing. And she and then the the old South formal pic came up to Thursdays ago. And for four days, five days, that was the thing like, holy shit, she went to an old school formal thing.

And that became now a topic of conversation in Bachelor Nation world of why is this even acceptable? Even though they changed that fraternity was banned from using that name. It's like, great. Then they changed the name to it, to the Rosebowl formal. And it's like, OK, but you still had the formal. What the hell does that.

Well, personally, Hannah Brown went to a very similar thing, as did Ben Hagans fiancee.

Yeah. And that became that became the rallying point until Chris spoke up on Tuesday and put his foot in his mouth. So here's the Rachel Kirkconnell thing that I'm I'm interested in your take on this because.

For the longest time, I as I've been telling you, I've been speaking to a family insider for the last few weeks about this and, you know, she was in a position where while she if she if she understood things more and maybe spoke to a lawyer, she would have understood that she could defend herself against the accusation, not defend herself, but at least released a statement on this shit without it going against her contract.

Yeah, and she didn't. And that, you know, that made it worse and worse and worse. And then Chris said it and then she apologized after Chris's apology, but. Where do we go? You know, I saw something on Monday night that I know this is going to sound bad or and I don't want this to make it seem like I'm defending Rachel at all, because anybody that's read anything that I've written in the last two months since this all broke is I haven't been defending our basically just been saying, you got to talk.

I understand that you're scared and you're 24 years old and America is calling you a white supremacist and a racist. And everyone seems to hate you, but you can't continue to let this go. And I'm being told behind the scenes, like she doesn't know what to do. She she's she's fearful of the contract and they're throwing in her face saying, you can't speak until we let you. But regardless of that, so Monday night comes we see that Rachel obviously makes the final four.

And I'm seeing all these images online of let me see if I can pull them up if I haven't saved in my phone here so I can remember off the top of my head.

OK, I think I deleted.

I don't think I know what you're talking about, so. Okay. Yeah.

Hang on real quick. Let me pull up the text. These two shit. Oh, OK. You find her and my phone.

OK, so after Rachel makes the final for a bunch of tweets coming out about that and it's like mad at Rachel's hometown and it's a picture of the black guy from get out. Oh my God. Yes.

With the tears shed on his face and then Rachel's family picking out their outfits to meet Matt hashtag bachelor. And it's a picture of the Ku Klux Klan. Can't wait to see Rachel's house. And it's, you know, basically a rundown white trash house with Confederate flags in the front. You know, that's what I mean, like at this point, is that is that helping matters? I don't I mean. I mean, look at social media, everyone's going to say whatever they want to say, but how do we treat Rachel Kirkconnell at this point?

Granit, she has an apology. She's probably still not going be able to speak publicly about this until after the final rose. But is it?

Is it right to just keep calling this girl a racist in a white supremacist and just making fun of it at this point, or is that bullying? Is that crossing the line of bullying and calling her family a Klux Klan, which is basically what they're doing online? I don't know. It's weird.

Well, do you think she is not? I think her. I think what she did was absolutely racist. But I don't know. I mean, I think is I would never go on social media and be like, hey, look at Rachel's family. They're all just, you know, this is them. And it's a picture of a Klux Klan like I don't know anything about her family, you know. I mean, I know that they come from a very the origins of Cumming, Georgia, are very racist, but it just.

At this point, what do you want from Rachel or what do you want to hear from Rachel? Because I know you're not going to be someone that piles on like that. You're never going to send out a tweet or an Instagram story that calls Rachel's family a bunch of racists or and uses pictures to to describe it. I don't know. What do you what do you feel like should happen with people's attitude towards Rachel as the rest of the season plays out, where we know she ends up with Matt at the end of this thing?

How many times have black people been like the butt of a joke? Oh, more often than white people, for sure. So. These names and jokes of, you know, the scene from Get Out and like Matt going to Rachel's hometown. Are relatable for black people, that's relatable, that's providing comic relief to the pain that is relatable. Obviously, I don't condone bullying. Obviously, it is wrong to send death threats and that kind of stuff, obviously that crosses a line.

Yeah. Do I think that said that these names are necessarily crossing a line?

Not particularly, Steve, because it's not so dissimilar to shit that you would have said about women on the show, right. Or that that other people say about women on the show, about their bodies, about their career choice, about whatever else have you. Right. This happens to people all the time and most of the fan base. His response is, well, what did you expect? You signed up for the show. You asked for that.

So why is it now something that makes people feel uncomfortable that, well, she shouldn't be getting less? That's not right. Why is that?

Yeah, because yeah, you're right. Because other people are getting it. I mean, it's almost like at this point. The only because she is that poor girl. Who represents and is relatable to white people? And that fragility is being projected, that's the well, I wouldn't want somebody to do that, right? Well, she took accountability, right? She put out that statement, right. So now we can't be saying she's this mean, ridiculous person, right?

Yeah. No, I see what you're saying, it just wanted to come and defend her, that's why I need to come to her rescue, because she is the victim here. That's what that is, and I'm not saying she hasn't had a tough time. I'm sure she has. However, she will be OK. Like, if the people who have been most harmed and hurt by women like her doing ignorant shit like what she did, upholding white supremacy like she did, if they want to have a laugh and be like.

Yup, it's like if Matt's going there, it's like he's going in, it's like he's going into the KKK house. I don't think that that's bullying her, it certainly doesn't feel great, I certainly can feel frustrating, totally valid. I don't think it's so far like, you know. Some of the others said that people would just say about you because you go on the show. Yeah, yeah. It's it's it's basically teasing and making fun of shit that they see on the show and something like I'm just trying to think of something off the top of my head.

If someone makes a meme about how somebody I don't know why this popped into my head, but what's his face?

The guy that was engaged to Lace and which is Daniel. No. Oh, Grant. Grant, you know, when Grant was on the show and people posted pictures that he looked like Squidward from. Yeah. You know, it's just it's just they're taking something that's on the show and making a joke of it. And the storyline that and this one isn't necessarily a storyline on the show because the Raichel racist, you know, attending old s formal hasn't been brought up on the show.

They're just taking the narrative that's out in the social media world right now, which is Rachel, the racist. And then they're just taking Rachel the racist and putting it with, hey, look at her family. When Matt goes to her family's house, they're all going to be dressed in hoods. I mean, I say, OK, I see what it is. I think I think it is interesting. I mean, they've got I mean, look, I said it today.

It's hard enough to make it as a couple in this franchise, the final couple, when you have a great love story, your edit is great and everyone in America loves you like, yeah, it's hard to even have a relationship after that and look at what their conditions that they're starting under. I find it very hard to believe that these two were going to last very long. I don't even think Matt really cares or wants to last very long with her.

I think Matt has made it pretty clear of why he went on the show to begin with. But why do you think that is?

I think he just wanted the clout. I think he wanted to I think he loved being Tyler Cameron's friend. And they came to him and it was just like, oh, wow, this would be great for me. Mm hmm. I mean, it certainly helped that the pandemic hit right at the time where he was supposed to be on player season and maybe he would have been the bachelor anyway. But it's certainly. That it helped him and I think, you know, look, I don't know enough about the guy, but I just the way it's gone and what I've seen on these episodes just seems like this is a guy that's enjoying being on TV and just like, OK, well, whatever is going to happen at the end.

And I think he is in a weird position, though, because I think Matt James has released two sentences in regards to.

Everything that's going on, whether it be Rachel or whether it be about Chris, like Matt hasn't said very much. As far as I know, have you seen something?

I mean, from what I have seen on social media, then it doesn't seem like he's actually like invested in what his position was on the show. Honestly, like he's invested in his ABC futures. And I'm like, that's great. Looks like you're doing great work there. But like, OK, I don't know. Yeah, he doesn't seem to have a lot of opinions or, you know, engaging really around the show. It's kind of like the minimal staff of, you know, posting an image or two from the episode.

But I don't know, that might be just his comfort level that he might be waiting until, you know, he's done with the until the season's over to feel more comfortable with that. But it definitely I'm definitely looking forward to actually seeing what he says on this. I honestly feel like we haven't really gotten to know Matt, other than the fact that he's religious and he has a white mom. Yeah. And has a white mom. That's I mean, I haven't watched the last two episodes, but yeah, I don't feel like we've really gotten to know him and maybe also because we didn't know him from previous seasons, you know, because he's just starting off here.

But definitely we'll be very curious to see how they do handle this, because it's not going to be easy for them.

And, you know, I think it's definitely going to be a ton of eyes on that after the final rose and hoping that they come in on there again, that they got their shit figured out and that they are, you know, in unity together on that.

Yeah, I think I mean, I can almost predict I mean, the fact that they're still together clearly means that everything that's popped up about Rachel, I guess, doesn't seem to bother him. It wasn't it wasn't, I guess, a red flag to where he needed to break up with her because they're still together. So my guess is when he does come out and speak, I mean, I feel like I can almost already predict what he's going to say.

Like, I know this girl, what I've seen pop up on social media. Yeah, I know her heart. There isn't a racist bone in her body.

Like, that's what he's going to say. That's what he's going to say. And I just I'm going to be looking at him like, do you not have an opinion on did it not bother you about the old self pictures or what? I don't know. It's just going to be very, very weird. And I do think that, you know, we talk about her statement that she made and it's like, great. It was ten times better than what Chris wrote, but still it is only words.

She didn't do a video. She didn't look into our eyes and talk and tell us so we could, you know, gauge anything.

And we know that that statement has been rewrote and edited and trashed and started over and all of that thousand times.

So like this is, again, where I'm like for anybody from the franchise that's going to speak up, like, please use your own words, use your face when you speak about this so that people can actually see that it's authentic, that it's actually genuine and it's OK if it's a little bit messy.

But like try and that's the thing that going forward, whether it's after the final rose and then after the final rose is going to turn into their media tour and they're, you know, assuming they're I think that's probably going to be Matt and Rachel will be the first guests on Rachel and Becca's podcast. Everyone will I mean, I hope in the next month, like you said, both of them really get their shit together and practice what they are going to say and how they're going to dress this, because everybody is going to dissect every single sentence, every single phrase, every single word out of her mouth when they start going on their media tour and to see if her apology is actually sincere or did she apologize because she had to because there was such a shitstorm, huh.

And. I going to say to you, I think we absolutely should be breaking this stuff down word by word, sentence by sentence, to really actually get an understanding, because so much of this is subtext, so much of this slips by us because it's either been culturally, culturally accepted or we don't recognize it. So I do really, really value and think it's important to break this stuff down bit by bit and ask more questions on it. Right.

Like figure out what that meaning actually is because it means something.

It's why I've kind of said from the beginning, this is she's got a long road ahead of her. I mean, the apology is just a start. I know that she wanted to release something much earlier than she did. She wasn't. She was scared, too. So she finally did great. We're not saying that the apology now cures everything, but for a lot of people, a lot of and I'm guessing 100 percent happened to be white people are like, she apologized.

Let's, you know, let's get off her back. And it's like, no, this is where that was step one. The rehab starts once she starts doing interviews, once she starts being able to use her Instagram like everyone else does. Once the you know, once her last appearance on the show is over is, you know, this idea of, well, if she starts posting about look what book I'm reading by Robert D'Angelo or whatever the case may be, whatever she wants to promote that she's doing something to better herself, half the people are going to look at and be like, God, that's so performative.

And half the people are going to be like, wow, good for her. But if she does nothing on Instagram when this is all over, it's like, great, she gave us an apology and she did a couple of podcasts. How do we even know she's improving herself? So she's almost forced to share exactly how she's getting better, kind of like Chris is going to do. Chris is going to be under the same boat. This guy is going to have to show us what he's done and and what he's doing to improve himself.

Because if he doesn't, then everyone is going to be like, how do we know he's doing anything or cares?

Well, and again and again, it's not like, OK, you had a month of, you know, passing the mic or whatever else reading a fucking book. Like, it's an ongoing thing that has got to be incorporated into your lifestyle as something that you give a shit about. Yeah. And honestly, a lot of people don't give a shit about things that don't impact them. And when they benefit from this system, of course, they just want to turn a blind eye.

I'm like, oh, I'm still that because I'm OK. Yeah, but it's like you've got to actually fucking care that other people aren't like the other people are literally getting murdered. This isn't just oh that was summer. Twenty twenty people are literally still getting murdered in poverty in prisons. Like physically ill because of the cumulative impact of all of this shit, and it might seem so like surface level, like, it's just words, you know, people are just saying stuff.

Does it really matter? It really fucking matters because it all builds up because these words carry weight, because people believe in the words that are being used and those words can then literally be used to abuse, to harm. So it's like this isn't just read a book post about it. It's got to become something that you actually give a damn about. And if you really don't, then that's going to show someone like Spivvy who fucking angel to Earth, OK, love her consistently, shows up repeatedly, is providing quality education resources, action steps in her own words of uplifting and sharing her platform and, you know, just actually give it down.

Yeah. And it's not because people are messaging her because she's getting attacked and she hasn't said anything. Like, it's really worrisome that folks have to wait until they are bombarded with messages. Hannah Gee, Hannah Brown, Dylan, Nick, Ben, Ashlei, who are every other major player in this fuckin weird ass world? You got to wait until people are coming at you to say something, because it's not just something that you genuinely give a shit about to speak on, because if you really gave a shit about it, you would want that to be out there.

You would want people to be taking action. It wouldn't it wouldn't fucking matter if you were going to lose followers, if you were scared people were going to send you hate messages. If you were scared people are going to think you were being performed. It is because you would fucking care. So you would just do it because you knew that it would make a difference because it was something you were passionate about, because it was something you knew was right.

And Nick said apparently on his podcast that, you know, he didn't put anything about Rachel, Lindsey and Chris on his page because he was saving it for his podcast because you didn't want to see him perform it as well. No, that was you sitting in your privilege. That was you still wanting to protect your power and not actually have to take a full stance on on your Instagram. And it's an excuse. Be performative. Show us this whole performative thing.

In some ways, literally is just used as an excuse to protect white people with power from actually using their power. It's very well said and, you know, you brought up something in that answer that, you know, I want to bring up, you already did a breakdown of it on your Instagram story. But in regards and it's relevant to the situation because she dealt with it. The summer is Hannah Brown. You know, she said the N-word on an Instagram story this summer and then went into hiding for two weeks and then gave an apology and that said she was going to be so much better.

And for two weeks, she did a bunch of stuff and we haven't heard from her since. And then it took her four days. I think on Saturday is when last Saturday is when she put out a statement. And I just want to read some of the some of the things that Hannah Brown said in her role and in her statement.

And before you do, I do want to say to me and Michaela, I'm bachelorette's broke it down on the IGY Live last night and yeah, you'll read it. But I would also encourage folks to go listen there, too. Yeah.

No, I mean, you're going to you guys broke it down way more than I'm going to do it here. I just want to let people know who maybe forgot what Hannah wrote, but it worked said and it was like for Instagram stories, it was maybe a minute long. And the phrases that she used were, I've made mistakes, move forward, confront where we have fallen short, lift up, listen. And courage, being accountable. Not a perfect person committed to the work, grateful to be on this journey.

Evolve. Evolved. She evolved. Yeah. And has been on a personal growth journey.

I mean, there were some mistakes. There were some real bad and really not tone deaf, but just statements that were given by people in this franchise that were just oh shit, I need to say something. Let me just gather all the the key words and phrases and throw them all together and jumble them together to make it sound somewhat coherent.

That would cheapen what it was literally stupid and and insincere. It was insincere. And it didn't even I mean, if you were to just go to Hannah Brown's Instagram story and and watch that for a minute, you'd be like, what is she talking about? Like, she didn't mention the word race, racism, privilege, Chris Harrison. Nothing she didn't even know.

But she's she's committed to the work. Steve she remember and Summer, she said she promised she was going to do better.

And that's what I mean. It's just like and I'm sure we're going to get I mean, you right now, we'll get shit for me like God, just leave Hannah Brown alone. It's like, first off. No, no, no, no.

We don't need to leave her alone because she is a person. She went through this six months ago. She should have a better statement than that garbage that I just read you and the garbage that you and Mikhaila went over on Instagram. Leive, I'm sorry, that wasn't acceptable. And in fact, it was embarrassing. It would've been better if she said nothing really would have because she said nothing. And she is someone that went through this. If anybody can maybe relate to what Rachel Kirkconnell is going through, it's Hannah Brown.

And she gave her that advice like, well, you know, why she didn't say anything is because she's guilty herself and because she hasn't actually evolved and because she's looking at anti-racism as her own personal growth journey at the expense of the pain and oppression and systematic fucking suffering of BIPAC folks in this fucking country. Yeah, she she she felt attacked. I'm sure she was guilty herself of the same shit that Rachel is getting accused of. And instead of actually doing better, she came forward with that bullshit.

I'm not mincing my words here. I give no shit at this point because people repeatedly disappoint and fall short when it's been spelled out. Ma'am, it has been clearly, clearly spelled out for you and you don't step up to the plate. So it's literally like I'm trying to play baseball and I'm like, this is home base right here. And she keeps just sitting on the bench and she'll walk around and just sit back on the bench. And I'm like, no, that's right.

You're home late. It's right here. Just please, you got to open the fence, OK? You got to put your helmet on. I love this. I don't I don't know sports. That's why I love it. But I like to fuck in a home base.

I just told you all the steps people have put all the steps out there, OK, there's instructions. There's rules. You can watch videos on how other people step up to the plate. And you still at what point you just go and you sitting in the stands now know you got power. You are a player. You got to step up to the plate.

She is the most followed female in the history of this franchise. She has the most oh, she has the loudest voice in terms of social media because more people follow her than anyone else. So you would think with that, maybe she doesn't want it. But unfortunately, with that comes a major responsibility and she hasn't used it.

How? How? I understand Jesus loves her, but why is he not helping her be better? Why Jesus loves all people? From my understanding, that would include black people. But so is Jesus, then, loving you when you uphold white supremacy, when, mind you, he ain't white.

When you go to an old south party, when you then fail, failed to stand the responsibility that your platform has and the power that you have as a white woman with apparently the largest fall in the history of this franchise, when you don't stand up for those who are hurting, those who are abusing people, you don't speak out against that. How how is Jesus speaking through you then? I don't think he would have love for you in that. And not to be like from a fear, fear based perspective there, but I don't think that's Jesus's message.

And I'm not even fucking religious, but I'm pretty sure Jesus would not feel like that.

Was Hannah sitting in in her, you know, values of what he stands for? Am I wrong? No.

You know, no, you're not wrong. Like I said, she might she might as well just said nothing because that that minute Instagram story was frankly embarrassing and it said nothing, didn't address anything. Like I said, if you had no idea what was going on about your nation right now or even if you did and you turn that on, you'd be like.

It's like, you know what, you know what it sounded like, it sounded like someone giving a book report of a book that didn't read and they just keep all these, like, generalizations.

It sounded like he was on a yoga retreat, was what it sounded like. Stephen Hawking, it sounded like this was on a yoga retreat. I just know it I just know when I saw that, I thought it was embarrassing and there was nothing of substance in that in that apology and or whatever it was, the statement wasn't an apology.

It was a statement of her own personal growth. Yes.

And it took her four days to come up with that. That's what made it worse. Like you had more days, like almost it's almost like, look, there were so many people that had released statements before then.

Yeah.

Like, if you're going to put something out and you want to at least come across as sounding sincere, I don't know, Granat, we still would have called it fake, but pull some shit from other things people said and just not plagiarize it yourself like word for word, but make it sound better than what you did, because that was that was word salad for a minute.

There was just nothing like she ever even said Chris's name. She never said the word rainelle or racism or privilege or I felt I mean, it just yeah. It's like, why even release a statement at that point?

And it's and it's it makes me feel really sad, because from what I remember over summer, Rachel reached out, Rachel Lindsey reached out to Hannah like extended an arm and Hannah rejected it. And so I really feel zero guilt for, like, calling all this shit out about her because she's not someone like Jillian Harris or like Spidey or like Caitlin, who I at least know if I reach out, I at least know that they are open for me to reach out and be like, hey, this thing, can we talk about it?

Like the Chelsea hair situation with Caitlyn?

Yeah, that I know that they're at least going to be open to it and it won't be a waste of my energy that they'll follow through and it won't be perfect, but they will try. Hannah rejected that from Rachel. So it's not like I know people are always like, oh, well, you know, you're in the franchise queue. You need to reach out.

You want to fucking hear it from my from my perspective, she has put in zero work. So I don't feel guilty or bad at all for putting this stuff to light. I hope she actually listens. And if she ever did actually want to have a conversation, I'm sure there are several people that would be open to putting in that face and that effort if she actually was committed to the work and not just lying and bullshitting everybody that she's committed.

You said you had Mike on your podcast. Like you said recently, I haven't heard the whole thing, but did he ever address Hannah because he was on Hannah season? What does his did he give his opinion on Hannah or.

No, I don't know that she had said anything when I recorded with him.

OK, so this is another. Topic along these lines of of everything that's going on with Rachel and Chris and look, you know, we've talked about the social media response of how many people are just like, oh, what a Crozet, that was wrong. What's the big deal?

And on the flip side of that, not only are those people saying, what's the big deal about Chris, it's this just this hatred towards Rachel Rachel for doing I mean, I even think the people that are saying that the people that are calling Rachel Lindsey a bully and she's out for Chris's job and whatever else garbage that they're trying to sell.

I don't even know if these people actually watched the interview, because all you have to do is watch the first 10 seconds and realize. Do you see did you hear what Rachel's first question was to Chris, it was, hey, Chris, so what do you think about all these allegations against Rachel Kirkconnell period? End of story. That was it.

And then it was just Chris with diarrhea of the mouth for the next 13 minutes.

Like Rachel did nothing wrong. No, she didn't. And this is exactly why she had to be graceful. So don't give her praise for being graceful because she literally had to be graceful because, look, she is graceful and still this is what she gets because all of those people already already view her as an angry black woman, already view her as the worst thing that happened.

The franchise already view her as someone who's never going to be pleased to don't have a problem with everything just in our history.

These people already think that way. So they don't really actually give a shit about what happens. They want to protect and uphold the power of whiteness and Chris, and think that this black woman is to blame and that she's a bitch for trying to, you know, for for what is happening to people calling for him to be fired. Yeah, I don't know. And they're blaming her when really he did that himself.

I don't even think that they can't see that you mentioned it earlier. I don't even think that interview was supposed to be that. I just think. No, she wasn't.

I don't if Chris answers that question when Rachel's first question and that video go watch it, it's what do you think of the allegations against Rachel Kirkconnell? That's it.

That's all she asked if Chris says those were racist. I'm embarrassed that someone from our show did that. And I'm really interested to see what she says. That interview doesn't go thirteen minutes. It's probably over at that point. Maybe Rachel interjects and says, yeah, I'm really interested to see how she you know, what her statement is to this, because she hasn't she hadn't released a statement at that point. And I think it kind of dies from there.

It was not supposed to be a hey, Chris, you know, let's dove into the racial thing. No, it was Chris's answers that made that interview.

He had feelings about it. And you know what? People are very uncomfortable and frightened and intimidated by the idea or the presence or the action of a white man losing his power because it sends a message, a very strong message, a message that needs to be sent, but a message that is intimidating and threatening to white people.

You know, as a as we as we're an hour into this and, you know, just listening to you talk and listening to your answers and stuff that I've heard you say to me over the last couple of weeks. Just just the fact that I know that this interview between you and I is going to elicit people saying, God, she's always saying white this and white that and racist. Oh, yeah.

Immediately that the fact that if your response to this interview is why does Taylor always have to invoke racism and everything and talk about whiteness and white supremacy, that immediately means that you're uncomfortable talking about it. And it probably means you're a racist and you and you and you're really not opening your ears up and at least listening to what you have to say, because I can't disagree with anything that you've said, this whole podcast. And I know there are people that are going to and just say, oh, God, I've got to listen to her again, talk about, you know, black power, this and white people that and white people suck.

Like, that's going to be the generalization that people take from this interview just because it's. Oh, it's Taylor Lohan. Yeah. She's the one that always talks about this.

And, yes, an orgasm, just like literally I had to masturbate twice the other night and literally I think I orgasm about five different times and I still struggle to fall asleep because this this is the shit that keeps me up at night. So it's like, you know, me just using the word white people is threatening and intimidating to other white people. And then they want to remind me that I'm white and tell me that I'm, like, ignoring my whiteness or remind me I have a white mom.

I'm very aware of these things. I have had to examine my whiteness and my blackness more than most white people have ever looked at their whiteness. So trust me, I'm aware it doesn't mean that I hate all white people and it doesn't mean that I hate my family. It doesn't mean that I hate my friends. What it does mean is I'm aware of the social structures of the systems in place that do us and that I can identify when my mom said something that, you know, what actually hurts me that she thinks is a compliment to say, oh, I love when you straighten your hair.

It looks so much like it's just so pretty when you straighten your hair. Well, Mom, that actually feels like you are rejecting my blackness, which is part of my blackness as my curls. And I've received a lot of I've experienced a racial trauma over my curls. So that feels like a rejection of who I naturally am when you say something like that, because culturally the beauty standards that we have or European based are straight, straight, curly hair, not my naturally curly for the hair.

And she's not aware of that. Do I now hate my mom because she said that I don't hate her because I'm pointing out, you know, hey, yeah. Your way and yeah, I have whiteness in me too and I love you. But also like this is some shit that white people say that y'all don't realize is hurtful, but it is. And those conversations don't always go perfectly. There are many times where they're really messy and she's defensive and she's frustrated and that's OK.

That's OK for those kinds of conversations to be messy. It's it's been so interesting for me as I have, like, actually became proud of my blackness because for a long time I wasn't. For a long time I felt a ton of shame and like internalized the racism that I received about myself. And white people wanted me so badly to to realize that I'm black. They wanted me to know that I had slave feet. They wanted me to know that I needed to go pick cotton.

They wanted me to know that I was the N-word. They wanted me to know that my nose was weird and I was like very hairy and my curls were ugly. They wanted me to know all of those things and that my skin got so much darker in the summer and I was really black. Wow. You get really black in the summer. They wanted me to know those things so badly. And then when I do and I sit in that and I'm proud of it and I feel like me.

Then it's like, well, don't get your. Yeah. Why people really want to say that they feel like they can never fucking win. Try being half black, half white.

You know, and honestly, when you tell that story, like, I know that I'm I know that I'm guilty because I don't remember what it was. But I'm sure you remember I remember one time you posted something on Instagram or it was either your story, your feed. And I texted you and I said, Taylor, I love your hair like that. I remember texting you and I probably didn't realize, you know what I mean? I realized when I sent it, I'm like, I don't want it to seem like I don't like her when she has curly hair.

But to me, it was you didn't do it enough. So when I did see it, it was, wow, you look nice. I really I really like the way your hair is straight, but I never thought to think, oh, shit. Because because it used to always be straight, it used to. I didn't know you, I didn't know you when it was always straight. Yeah. So I just remember telling you that. And I think you said I don't remember how you responded.

I don't think you were offended.

But there was probably a part of you was like, yeah, white boy telling me my hair. He likes my hair straight.

Like I'm sure that was pretty good. But it's always it's always that reminder of. Yeah, white people think I'm prettier when I'm straight in my hair and I'm more in custom with those European beauty standards. And most of the time on Bachelor, I straighten my hair, my hair needs me straight and or done up and in a white way for those ceremonies and paradise. I kind of was like, fuck that. And I just let the girls go.

And then what I receive is the. That aside, I can never fucking say this word is the fetishizes eight fetishization, OK? Yeah, I did zation like I care about black blacks.

Yeah, exactly. That's. Yeah. Two words. I struggle with this. Bughouse. Exactly.

But yeah, it becomes like you're being fetishized because now it's like, wow, you're so exotic with your curls.

Yeah.

Well like these are all the like microaggression right. That white people aren't fully aware of.

Well I'm sorry for texting you that. When I did like I said, it was it was it was sometime within the last year.

I think maybe it was longer. But I remember I remember texting it and almost being like, God, I want to tell her.

I think she looks really pretty with straight hair, but I don't want her to make it her. Think what? You don't like me. You don't like me with curly hair. And I thought that's how you would take it. And I. And I do think you're pretty with curly hair, but you're curly hair is what I usually see. So it was just I don't know, I'm just it's the novelty that it's the novelty that it's different.

And I understand that. And, you know, because I have done a lot of that work, I can now I mean, I don't do it on a regular basis. I don't really feel the need to. But I can now straighten my hair and be like, oh, wow, who's this new bag? OK. Like, OK, you different.

Like, you know, I can I can do that now and that feels fine. And it's very different than the oh I have to straighten my hair, I'm going through a wedding. I can't, I'm not going to look good when my curls. I have to straighten my hair before this photo shoot. I'm going on a date. I have to straighten my hair. Hold on. I can't leave yet. I have to straighten my hair so that I'm accepted so that I take up less space so that I'm perceived as beautiful.

Now I. Well said, even if you went down to paradise and wanted to straighten your hair, that humidity was going to curl it anyway.

I literally think I think one time I did it and I was like, that was a waste. Yeah. I think I was like, bored. And I was just waiting around. I was like, I guess I'll straighten my hair for this and, you know, see how this goes. And it was like, this is a mistake. I shouldn't have done that.

Yeah, that's a thought about that. I was like, oh, well, the humidity is going to curl it anyway, so there's really no point.

Yeah. One final thing on the whole race, I think we've covered a lot of topics. One final thing, though, that I think is getting brought up a lot. And I know that I'm seeing it from the guy. And I just thought of another topic, too.

But we'll go to this one first. The fact that, oh, Rachel Kirkconnell can't be racist, she's dating a black man or she signed up for a show where she knew it was a black man. Again, I don't want I you should be. And we're going to I'm going to promote your Venmo at the end of this thing because you should be paid for the work that you're doing. But again, can you explain to people why it is possible to be racist and also date somebody?

That's black if you are white or vice versa. How do you think people like me started getting reproduced in the first place?

How do you isolate slave slave owners would rape their enslaved women and have biracial babies? George Washington. They were for sure racist, they enslaved people, they were white supremacists, they were the sole people in power. Did that stop their dicks? Did that stop their affairs? No, no.

So it is very possible because again. You are a racist, come to terms with that fear. It's uncomfortable, like fuck Taylor, she's but just tell me I'm fucking racist and I'm not. I'm a nice person. You are a nice person and you are racist until you start being anti-racist, until you start being an activist, until you start doing things. Greater than just reading a book. Until you actually practice being an ally. You are still racist, you are still upholding all the systems, all the structures, all the social dynamics that allow racism to flourish.

You know, I said I had another topic that I wanted to discuss, but I I'm almost as tired of it as you probably are. So just do a little bit on the fact that one of the things that Chris brought up in his interview at least two or three times was this idea of the police and being WOAK is, well, gosh, the WOAK police got Chris, you know, he says one thing and he loses his job over it.

And again, the WOAK police is just a way for people to kind of stand behind their own racist beliefs.

And, yeah, it's deflection.

And I don't and vilifying it's vilifying the people that are actually advocating for good change. It's just change that takes you out of power. It's change that makes you uncomfortable and intimidates you. So you think they're police and they're coming to get you. And wow, what a feeling. What's that like to feel like people are out to get you? Well, you're not getting murdered, so that's something to maybe be appreciative of. Yeah.

And that was something that came up this summer that I think was one of the first things that I started looking into and and thinking about more was when everything happened with George Floyd. And I think you and I talked for one of the first times after that was just this. And and the term white privilege was introduced into my vocabulary and not really knowing what it meant because I immediately thought, oh, white privilege, just me and I grew up, you know, well off and, you know, had nothing to do with the fact or it did have everything to do with the fact that nothing in my life ever came hard because of the color of my skin.

I wasn't basically born behind the eight ball because I was born white. So I'm automatically up here as opposed to people who aren't born white. You're automatically you've got a couple of strikes against you just because the color of your skin. So but that came up this summer when I was just like. Not only reading, not only reading things, stories and accounts, but hearing professional athletes, it doesn't have to be like, oh, poor black guy got pulled over for the DWB driving while black.

I heard so many stories after the George Floyd incident of professional athletes, guys that make hundreds of millions of dollars a year that are popular, telling stories about I still get pulled over to this day because I'm a black man and I'm driving in a, you know, 150 thousand dollars sled like and it's no other reason to that. And from the second I see those lights come on. You know, heart palpitations, you start sweating because you have no idea how that's ending up for you, whereas me I mean, I can't remember last time I got pulled over, I want to say three or four years ago, but I knew it was I was in a speed trap and I knew the cockup was going to come up and everything was going to be fine as long as I showed off my license and registration.

And that's what happened. And I got a speeding ticket for going 15 miles over the speed limit or whatever it was 18 miles.

And I just never thought up until this summer I had never thought about it until I read the stories like I just because it never occurred to me, you know, white people, police equals good here to protect and serve like that.

Sunhill And who and who are they there to protect and serve? Steve Who did they literally organize and become an organization in the first place to protect and serve whity?

Yes, they started a slave patrol. Who do you think they're going after now? What do you think they're patrolling? They are there to serve and protect white people from the the thugs.

Yeah, I thought it was amazing to hear some of the stories and just to hear people say, like from the time you were a kid, as a black kid, you're told you have that it's almost like the birds and the bees convo. There's a convo that happens between black parents and their black children of, hey, when you're old enough to drive, here's what you need to know if you get pulled over.

I'm glad you understand that. I do, because I didn't.

And I had maybe I didn't. I mean, it's not like I didn't understand. I just never heard it. Like I said, I had nine people, black people in my phone and seven of my dad even talked to like I don't interact with black people on a daily basis. You by far have surpassed anybody that I do. And now granted, I don't meet a lot of people on a daily basis because I work from home. So I'm not ever even.

I don't.

But but you probably do in some capacity. Consume black media.

Yeah, black media. That's that's how I consume. And that's how I learned about this stuff. And reading about athletes who talk about this conversation and reading her reading more about, you know, deeper into the George Floyd stuff and the Modesto Police Department, all that like it was eye opening that you like hip hop and rap.

Oh, I've loved it since that was what I grew up on. Yeah.

So you know the song Fuck the Police.

It was my top three song in eighth grade. Yeah. OK, yeah.

I mean, I'm glad that you're circling back now to understand that. But also this is where I think folks can look a little bit deeper into the black media that they do consume because they've been saying it. Yeah.

See, in eighth grade when I'm huddled around a boombox with my white friends listening to fuck to police and thinking this is the greatest song I've ever heard, I'm hearing the songs and I'm hearing the beat, but I'm not understanding the words to the song or I'm not like comprehending like, wow, he's actually giving a message to me. It was just like, yeah, fuck the police, great beat. Like, that's all like, you know, as an eighth grader, that's all I'm caring about or looking at.

But now. Sure. And, you know, after watching when I saw Straight Outta Compton, you know, you get more of a you get more of a sense of what they were going through anyway and and just the censoring of them to live crew censoring. It's wasn't part of that movie. But still, back then, I was like, hmm, I didn't put much thought into the fact that here's a bunch of black rappers rapping about, you know, women and misogyny.

And the white government is basically telling them, no, you can't do this, which was really bizarre. But I didn't think much of it other than, oh, wow, this is a media story.

OK, well, I mean, most of the time, white people don't have to think about it because it isn't relatable to them, because they don't have to experience it because of their white privilege. Exactly.

That's that's the whole point is like that that was. You know, my white privilege in full effect was like, well, I mean, it's interesting story, but it doesn't affect me, so I'll just go on with, you know, my life and but not, you know, diving into an understanding. Wait, why are they being why are they being censored? Why is the police trying to be taken off air waves or why are concerts not being certain?

Cities are like, no, we're not having NWA perform. Not not a chance. But other white performers surely could rap about whatever they want it to and they weren't getting shut down. So, yeah, I mean, it's all this is it's all been very enlightening and it's in and it's been interesting. And maybe it took me 45 years, but. You know, I'm I'm glad I'm doing whatever I can and. And helping in any way I can, obviously, when Ashley and I do our lives every week, it's, you know, we like to have fun and we like to poke fun, but it's obviously gotten a little more serious.

And we're going to do another live tonight to talk about everything. And but, you know, yeah, you've got your responses of people that are like, you know, you're selling out. Stop talking about politics, political stuff. Steve, I liked when you just, you know, made fun of the show and gave a spoilers. And it's just like the show is political.

Yeah, well, that's what that's what I mean. Like people are going to say that and I and I understood it. I knew I was going to lose followers and I knew and I've gotten the emails and I've gotten the tweets that are like, get over it, stop talking about it, you're selling out or whatever. And just like, you know, in one ear out the other for me, I don't I don't care about what they're saying.

I'm going to talk about it if it's important. And but, yeah, I mean, I'm I can't change the fact that I didn't think about this stuff for 45 years. It's it's nothing I can do to change that. All I can do is from this point forward now is to do what I can and to educate what I can and help people. And I and and as many people that have come forward and have said, hey, sell out, I'm not following you anymore.

Look at my reading emails from yesterday. There's a lot of people that have said, wow, I really like the work that you and Ashley are doing. I was a little scared when you guys were going to talk about this and talk about these subjects, but you guys handled it, you know, really well. And that was the one thing that we went to you that day, that Saturday. We were supposed to do the live. And I said, Taylor, do you want to do this?

And you're like, not really. I mean, you would have if. Yeah, if you don't need to.

You didn't need to. People were saying that you can't.

Yeah, but now you two should because white people need to hear it from white people because. Like we talked about earlier, if it's like Rachel, Lindsey and Taylor, Noel and Mike Johnson constantly shoving it down your throat, it's like, OK, black people and stuff like that, that's the impression that they're going to get. And that's the impression, like we talked about, that they're going to hear you on this interview and be like, oh, great, Taylor.

No one again. Oh, yeah. Race White, you know, and it's more it's more than that. And if that's immediate, if you're an immediate response, then clearly you don't want to learn and clearly you don't want to listen. And like you told us, you told me. And Ashley, White people need to hear it more, just as much from white people. And black people are sick of having to be the people that everyone runs to when there's a race issue in the franchise.

And that's why.

So, like Ashlei and Ben didn't need to go have a black man on their podcast to talk about the racial events in BATCHELLER.

Y'all going to talks about that between the two of you? Yeah, because I didn't say jack shit in your statements.

I didn't even see Ashley saying I saw Ben's and Ben's read like a sixth grader. I read Ben's. And, you know, part of me was like, maybe I could reach out to Ben, maybe he would be open to that. But then when I saw Beyonce, I was part of I was like, he probably won't talk to me. But, you know, I think I didn't see what actually played. But someone said that her and Jared put out a joint statement.

And I'm like, what is that?

That I didn't even see hers. But I use her own words that, again, it couldn't be any worse than Hannah Brown.

So, I mean, there are fighting for the bottom, I guess, of who gave the worst statement. And yeah, we are allowed to say that and we are allowed to grade them on their statements and not just be like, why can't we all just lift each other up and be nice? They said something. They addressed it because I getting a lot of that too is like, why can't we just all be nice to each other? Like people need to stop bullying other people.

They gave a statement and now they're being bullied for it. Maybe that's why they did it in the first place.

I'm like, this is nice. This is nice. Hannah Brown doesn't have to fucking think about people in her family potentially getting murdered or being wrongfully imprisoned. She doesn't have to think about those things. What we are asking for, the way we are asking for it is nice. It is nice that we are showing her and asking her and letting her know how she can be better. Yeah, it is nice. Well, yeah, I am, too, and we're an hour and 25 minutes in, so let's get to the interesting I mean, well, obviously this stuff was interesting, but I want to talk about more of a lighthearted issue that's going on with you, because you and I haven't talked about this.

I've only talked about it with one other contestant, not even from this franchise on the show, but about the fact that you just recently started up your only fans account. Oh, yeah.

What do you think I was going to say?

I don't know. I was like, what else happened? I was like, what?

Oh, no, no, no. We're transitioning off of of of the franchise now.

I don't want to talk your personal stuff because you, um, you know, started up your only fans account and you're only, what, a couple of weeks in three weeks. Two weeks.

Yeah, like two and a half. Actually today is three weeks I think.

OK, so how is it been going for you and what and for people that maybe are interested in signing up and wanting to know what exactly have you been putting up on your only fans account? So the only thing that's now is the same as Instagram and Twitter, and now they're all the same. It's it's been really interesting. And honestly, I've always known sex work is work, but now I'm getting my own firsthand personal experience in it.

And it is a lot.

So I my favorite thing that I have done so far on the platform is sexting. I love sexting. And, you know, all that array. I'll negotiate with the person or the couple and then we'll set aside time and we'll sex back and forth. And maybe that will include photos, maybe it won't. That depends on what we negotiate. We talk about boundaries like there's a lot of very, very clear communication each step of the way. And honestly, I have felt like so supported by the people that have subscribed like in the most just sincere way.

They are like supportive. They are nice. Some people are definitely like, you know, show me your tits, you know? And I'm like, well, I'm I'm working my way there, OK?

Like, give me a minute. I'm getting there.

But, you know, for the most part, everyone is just so like, yeah, take your time. You know, we want to respect your boundaries. I want you to feel comfortable. Are you having fun? And I'm like, oh wow. I feel so cared for and so respected here. Like Instagram is shit.

I'm just like only Bandz is so much better part of what I share on like the home page. So like when you subscribe that's just like what you'll get is the more like sexy photos. I don't put explicit photos on the wall, but I'll put resources, toys, movies, articles to help provide just resources around sexual health.

And then, you know, I'm just like sexy pics. I did you a live on there, which was really fun. And people can, like, tip on the lives. It's like the same thing as an Instagram live. But you tip and literally I was like, this is of course what happens.

This is the universe. I was changing my outfit and as I was changing, I was saying and I was like, yeah, you know, I'm not fully comfortable yet being totally naked.

So I'm going to put my underwear on underneath my dress here and change this way. And as I was doing that, I like leaned over and my dress like opened up and I had like a major neck flip on, like one boob. And everyone was like, Taylor, you just have like a net slip.

And I was like, please tip me.

I was like, if you saw the nipple, please tip.

Well, that's a good phrase. Did you did did a lot of people end up tipping?

Yeah. People tipped for that and were like, don't worry. Like we appreciate we understand what it's like. As I was saying, by the way, I'm not completely sure yet. Here's my table.

The universe was like, now, girl, you in it. But but even just people's response to that was like just great. I was really awkward and flirty, but like, naturally, I am just very like awkward and giddy when I'm like flirty or when I'm like horny. Hi.

So it's cool that people like actually supported that part of my personality coming through.

I will. Do you know, Peevey photos is what they call them on only things like pay per view. Some of those I'll do explicit depending on what people are paying.

And even just that part is like so hard because it's like. What how will I price my nipples, what can this person afford? Do I skip on that overall if they can't pay what I believe my nipples are worth?

You know, it's I don't know.

It's it's a lot of it's a lot of work, but it's fun work. It's just very different work than what I'm used to when you do the sexting.

Is it done through the only fans appreciate exchange phone numbers, OK, so you say, OK, so you're just saying for X amount of dollars, I'll give you an hour session to sext with me and guys and or couples will pay for that.

Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating.

I, I, I didn't, I didn't know that they would do that, but I get it, I mean I, I get it to where it feels more personal to these people that wow. You know, this is someone I watch on TV or someone I watch on Instagram all the time and now she is sexting me. Yeah.

Yeah. I think it's a fantasy for some people. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, the live thing I didn't like you said, the lie that you did on only fans is basically the same as going on Instagram. Right? Right. Same thing. Except people can sit there and just send you money for for you talking or doing whatever you want. Like, were you taking requests where people were like, hey, stand up and twirl around?

I mean, were they doing that?

So I told them I would like put on different outfits, depending on what people tips and if they wanted to pick an outfit.

What I am starting to like figure out is exactly how I want to engage down there. This is my first time like two and a half, three weeks and. Right. I'm still learning a lot about what people want, what I'm comfortable with. There haven't been very many people that are capable of paying for the exclusive photos.

So I want to do some fun things that are like I'm going to do a live in the bubble bath and we're going to chat, you know, and do stuff, you know, on live while I'm in the bubble bath. Right. There are many different kinds of sex work that you can do, and I'm still figuring out where that feels best for me. Part of me, like, you know, in the past, I've done like cuckolding and stuff like with my partners.

And in the past I've done some like BDM type of stuff. And part of me, like, really would enjoy being just like a financial dominatrix. Like I said, that was one of my partners. I would just like take his card and like he would basically like beg me to like not like buy things. But then I would and I would like use his card to like buy extra large condoms for a different guy that I was going to have sex with.

And it was really fun. It was like, yeah, I'm going to use your money. And I like got him off, you know, and like part of me that was a different side of me that I haven't really explored a ton other than that, like, you know, with that one person. But part of me is like, where are those people? And I'm still figuring out, like, what my fans on there even are interested in.

Like, I want to know what their fetishes are. I know I've got some people on there. I'm working my way up to getting a pedicure. It's been a while, but like it's also important for me to figure out what it is that turns them on and what it is that, you know, they can actually actually afford.

So I know a lot of people have a question in regards to this, because you, I think, are a year into your relationship, right, with your boyfriend. The. Yeah, I mean, we've been, like, committedly, dating each other since, like early August, but we met last September, so we've known each other for like a year and a half.

OK, how is he taking the only fans thing? Clearly, he is fine with it, I think because. Because you're doing it. But is it something that he ever wants to get involved with in terms of doing couple stuff or. No.

So when I first met him, I literally started off as just like having sex. We knew we wanted to have sex with each other.

I was just like, we need to meet up so we can have a lot of sex together. And I think maybe like three months and was doing that, I found this couple.

They're called My Sweet Apple, and they're both very attractive, you know, and they just like fuck each other and settlement and, you know, put it out there and they get paid and they're like their sex workers. And I was just like, OK, can we just do this?

Why can't we can we can you just, like, fuck me on a beach somewhere and we just travel?

We just have, like, hot sex together and put it out there because I was just like, you're so hot and it's so hot when we have sex.

And that was like shortly after we went to the sex club together to and like that was really exciting that, you know, other people would watch us and they would ask permission first and then we would say, yes, you can. And then they would watch us. But for him, it's not something that he's interested in getting into until he's definitely on board to help me take content. He definitely is supportive of me doing this. And he he definitely requires his own special attention from me.

And that's been something that I've kind of been navigating as much as I do stuff on. Only fans of, like, OK, I'm putting my time here, I'm putting my time into my podcast and putting my time on Instagram. I'm putting my time into my therapy where I'm putting my time into my feet and putting my time into all this stupid bachelor factory. And how do I give him more undivided, specialized attention that is intimate. So that's been more of what we've been navigating.

OK, so yeah, but he's fine.

But clearly, I think one of the reasons you said that you wanted to do this as a as a side gig was the fact that you've got a lot of student loans and these bills aren't paying themselves off and podcast and you're work as a therapist can only give you so much and you're just like trying to make as much money as you can. And if guys if if men are willing to pay you to sext with them and shit, yeah.

They can pay me to see their dick and I'll tell them what I think about their dick. They can pay me.

Oh those they can pay me for sex and they can pay me for. We'll find out when we negotiate it in our messaging. Not only fans but but yeah. My like my frame of my diploma is the most expensive thing that I own. And it would the podcast I make barely anything on the podcast therapy. I make barely anything during therapy. Instagram is definitely where I like make most of my money. But even that I'm just like I, I it's so exhausting.

It's so draining. Like in some ways I love it and it's great and I enjoy it. And in other ways it's like I really don't want to have to depend on this. And obviously I do have other sources of income. But when this one is majority of the income, it's like I don't want to have to rely on this here, especially when sometimes it is so toxic. When I have people in my dreams and in my comments, like literally just harassing me, like I and we see this post those on your Instagram story a lot.

And we just see the that and the stuff that you get. And you know what you're getting Rachel's getting as well now for doing nothing like Chris run his mouth. It's it's crazy. But you mentioned one thing. They're like it's one thing for the guys to say, hey, Taylor, I'll pay you this to see you take off your top or whatever. They're actually paying you for them to send you a picture of them naked, love them, sending you a picture of their dick.

And they're saying here, here's 50 bucks or whatever, you know, whatever the price is, here's fifty. And my dick. Let me know what you think. Like there's guys that are willing to do that.

Yeah, like if you're sixteen, right. And they're like, oh, my cock is so hard, I want to fill you with it. I'm like, yeah, I wish you could let me see. But you it's going to be X, Y, Z amount and. And then they can send that and I'll receive it. Wow. But you're not sending unsolicited and you're not sending it unless we've already talked about it. Yeah, so it's something that comes up in the course of conversation.

Yeah, but they're still doing it. Like, I get why they'd be like, I want to sign up for Taylor's site.

I want to pay her to see her do this or wear this, whatever. But the fascinating part to me is they're like, I'll pay you to judge me on how big you think I am, like I that is what depends on what people like Kingson and fetishize are.

Right. That's what earns people on some guys. I have definitely been with some guys who have like not small penises and will get off on me telling them that they have such a small penis and that they're so lucky a hot girl like me would give their small penis the time of day. Like there are people who get off on that kind of degrading humiliation. And I surprised myself. I was like kind of at it. And I was kind of like, this is a little power trip.

Yeah. Wow.

But that's like one of the great things about sex is that we can, like, play, you know, we can get creative and like express these different parts of ourselves. And it's like exciting.

That is that's fascinating. I'm glad you've had three weeks in and I'm assuming it's going well for you. You're making money off this thing. So congratulations. Like you said, that's only fans, Dotcom, Tomoka. And the other thing that I wanted to throw in is the fact that anybody that's followed Taylor on her Instagram for the last, you know, six months, even longer than that, and has seen the work that you have put in to educate people.

Granat, you do get tired of it and you do get exhausted at times and sometimes exhausted to the point where you get emotional about it. But the fact is you still are doing it and you're not doing it for anything other than to educate people.

But, well, I do it for nothing other than like I'm standing up for myself. I'm standing up for people in my family. I'm standing up for my friends.

I'm standing up for people who deserve to be stood up for like.

And I think and I think you're doing that all while educating people, but you're also doing it for free. Like nobody's asking you to do this. You're not making any money. And that's why you're like, look, it'd be nice to be acknowledged for this. So anybody that is interested in just sending you a tip that doesn't, you know, that doesn't want to go through the only fans route, you can still tip or give support to Taylor by going to your Venmo, which is at Tamaqua as well, correct?

Mm hmm.

OK, so please, anybody out there that enjoyed this podcast, enjoy your podcast. Just in general, feel free to leave a tip for her because she's putting out so much good information out there. And I know she's educating people. You've helped me tremendously in the last month. And, you know, I appreciate it. And again, this was a really good conversation. It's very similar to conversations we've had in the last couple of weeks. But I'm glad other people got to listen in on us.

I passed that.

We were recording a podcast, honestly, and then like after I was injured, I was like, oh, yeah, wait years.

Still some recording here, but yeah. So, Taylor, thanks. Thanks again so much for doing this. I was on your podcast last week. We talked about something.

This was all before I believe it was before Rachel's. Yeah. And it was before. Yeah. This was actually before Chris even spoke to Rachel Lindsey. So because you're going out like last Wednesday.

So but there's there's some stuff in there that you and I talk about that we didn't even talk about on this podcast. So I want to listen.

Oh, excuse me. Go check that out as well. But thank you so much for coming on. And I will link to everything. And thanks for helping me. And I know you're helping a lot of viewers as well. So we will certainly be in touch.

And thanks again so much.

Yeah, thank you. You got it. We'll be in touch. All right. Bye bye. Well, thank you to Taylor so much for that. Just unbelievable. If you have not followed her Instagram, please do. And you know what? Go over to her friend, Mo Antipov. Whether it's a couple of bucks, five bucks, Dymocks, it all helps because she's doing this just like Ashley does as well, and they're just doing it.

You don't make any money off Instagram unless it's an ad that's specifically saying, like ad, you know, when she's retweeting stuff or posting stuff on Instagram or putting out links to articles that you should be reading. She's just doing it to educate people and doing it to help and like she said, sticking up for her friends and family. So if you can donate, please do. It's at Tomoka on Venmo said her only fans for guys that are interested in only fans is only fans.

Dotcom slash Tomoka. And then she's Tamaqua on Instagram and Twitter as well. So thanks again to Taylor. That was an excellent conversation and I really hope a lot of you don't roll your eyes and like, oh God, Taylor talking about racism and whiteness and all this stuff. Like if you actually listen to what she says, there's really not a lot that you could dispute there because she knows what she's talking about. And I hope you really open up your minds and listen.

So thanks again to Taylor. Thank you all for listening. Please write, subscribe and review in Apple podcasts. We'll be back next week. As I said, you know, there was no Temptation Island contestant this week, but I think we're going to double up next week. We're going to have both people in one of the couples on next week for their podcast. Don't know which couple yet, but I hope you watched the premiere. Temptation Island is every Tuesday night on the USA Network Ten nine Central.

We got introduced to the couples last night. You've got Kendall and Erica, you've got Julie and Christian. You've got Corey and Erica and you've got Thomas and Chelsea. They met the singles. The date start next week and we'll see how this goes. But one of those couples is going to be on the podcast next week. Just don't know which one quite yet. So thank you all for tuning into this podcast for Taylor knowing Steve. And we'll talk to you next week.