With a pandemic and a revolution happening at the same time, we get to choose what kind of society we want to rebuild and who we want to be together. I'm Baratunde Thurston, author, activist and comedian, and I've got a new podcast, How to Citizen with Baratunde.
Our democratic experiment is at a tipping point, but which way we tip is up to us. I Heart Radio is number one for podcast, but don't take our word for it. Find out a citizen with Baratunde Dave on the radio app or wherever you get your podcast.
What if you can learn from one hundred of the world's most inspiring women? Now you can. Introducing Senecas One hundred women to hear a new podcast brought to you by Seneca Women and I Heart Radio in partnership with PNG. I'm Kim Mazzarelli. In celebration of the 100th anniversary of American women getting the vote, we're bringing you the voices of one hundred groundbreaking and history making women listen to Senecas. One hundred women to hear on the radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the Red Tablecloth podcast. All your favorite episodes from the Facebook Watch show in audio produced by Westbrooke Audio and I hate radio. Please don't forget to write and review on Apple podcasts.
I just want to tell a red tabletop family that, you know, this is a it's going to be a difficult, sensitive topic. We are going to be talking about race and racial relations between women and men. Going to be easy. No, because you and I have already had some conversations that we've gotten pretty tight about.
Yeah, because we come from different, you know, generational thing, too. I'm really talking about all our biases, because the sad part is that I realize I've got some serious prejudices and biases myself. So in.
Yeah. Today, the red table is going to be popping, and it's because we are talking about a pretty intense subject matter, there's a racial divide between women of color and white women.
We don't talk about it much, but it's real and it's deep.
Any comment about race, no matter how well intentioned, can set off a firestorm which scares people away from even talking about the issue. And Hathaway was blasted for calling out white privilege after Neil Wilson, a black woman, was stabbed to death.
Khloe Kardashian was criticized after her tweet. In our household, we do not see color. And then their statements, they cut more deeply.
Bette Midler had to apologize for an inappropriate tweet using the N-word to describe the plight of women.
And Meghan Kelley's NBC show was swiftly canceled after she made racially offensive comments defending blackface Halloween costumes.
So this is going to be as unfiltered as possible. What were some of the differences you and I were having in regards to our discussion?
I think it was the responsibility that I think that we as. Black women specifically, because I can only really talk about my experience, the responsibility that we have in regards to bridging this gap that I think that we have with white women.
And I think that's where we we were having our biggest disagreement. Yeah.
For me, I can't even I don't know. I can't even get to that level of consciousness about it because mine is just so basic and raw. I remember growing up and not being able to go to downtown and and try on hats and different places that we weren't allowed to go in, in our own neighborhood. We couldn't go to the bowling alley and to get ice cream, we couldn't sit at the counter. It still bites. Yeah, I can remember working in white corporate America, and I was talking about remembering we couldn't go to Tiphanie and try on clothes and one of my bosses said to me, yeah, now you can you can go and try them on and steal them and boom.
And I just have a lot of probably anger. Yeah, I do, too. I mean, I have a lot of pain and and hurt attached to some of the experiences that I've had as well. I remember going to Virginia Beach and the white police remember when they had the riots.
And I was there by myself, terrified, trying to get back to my hotel.
And I'll never forget these two white officers. I was like, I'm just trying to get down the street so I can get to my hotel. And they said, you better get your nigger bitch ass off the street right now. And that's specifically the white male experience versus what I've had specifically in regards to race with white females. Yeah, I don't separate it like that.
Oh, yeah, I do.
I get what you're saying because because of the hurt and the tragedy and everything that has happened in our past, we have PTSD. If someone does something to me, that hurts me deeply. In the back of my mind, I'm like. I want to I want to make them feel how I felt. Yeah, I think what crushes me specifically in regards to my relationship with white women, the thing that really breaks my heart is that. White women understand what it feels to be oppressed because what feels exactly because of their sex, what it feels to be ostracized or not being treated as if it's really difficult for me because we have white people in our family.
Well, I remember you telling me, never let anybody know that. Do you remember that you said, don't you? No, no, no. I didn't know. What I said was because I repeated what Mommy told me was that you have to learn to get along with white people, but don't ever bring them home.
Oh. Was that why you had such a problem when I was dating? Absolutely. I had a white boyfriend. He was really white. I mean, really what?
I didn't even give myself an opportunity to like John.
Very nice guy. Just like I said, you know, we have people in our family, you know, and I've given those people a hard time, like Jason, a married man to a white woman.
And she will tell you we gave her a hard time before. We didn't welcome her with open arms. Right. And she really had to prove herself. Yeah. You know, and. You know, I feel bad about that. Do you think Tiffany's husband, my cousin, who she has a white husband, do you think Jason had to do the same thing? I don't think so. And see, why is because, Jason. Had a little bit more swagger and he acted more black.
Wow. And that's just real talk like that.
Listen, Gary, what the real talk.
I'm just saying seat is this huge gap between white women and black women, because if you're OK, historically, you would think that Brown would have more and family will be more the issue than a white woman. Yeah, yeah. You understand what I'm saying.
That's why I'm saying that this runs deeper. Then we even are conscious of right, because we embrace a lot of sense to it, it's not a lot of sense to any of it, really. I feel like we as women should know better.
I really do, because we're women, because of the struggles that we have as women. There should be a natural understanding and familiarity of our struggle. And then to be part of creating more of a struggle for another woman to me is criminal. Yeah, exactly.
I really do believe that this is an area that we have to examine because that's deep to me.
That Jason was embraced. More easily than than Lexi, real talk. Yeah, I mean, we love like, of course we love Lacy.
You know what I found this this quote, I'm going to read it. Prejudice is the emotional commitment to ignorance.
Prejudice is the emotional commitment to ignorance. Well, I have to admit, I'm guilty and I feel like I am too to to that to certain to a certain degree, because I do have my own biases, specifically with blonde women. Blonde hair on white women just triggers me, you know.
And I've had to have a specific incident with someone who had blonde hair. Absolutely. All throughout my childhood, I do remember experiencing being teased by white women in regards to my hair, how I looked and feeling belittled. When I was going to do an interview with this blonde woman, I thought twice about it. I was like, I don't know if I don't know if I want to do that. That was my first instinct because of how she looked.
And I was like, oh, well, that's no different. That doesn't give me the right to clump. All blonde, you blonde women and one and look at me, I got blond hair, but just because I had that specific experience, because it's no different than you getting robbed by a black guy once and now you're saying all black dudes are thieves and dangerous. Right.
Right. You know what I'm saying? I have an issue because I feel like black women have been brainwashed into. Only accepting. The European idea, standard beauty of what beauty is. Yet the long, straight hair and straight hair right now. You know, we can't have anything to ourselves that we can call our own because they're got all tanning booths, nanny trying to get brown, they put in injections and they realize that putting injections in their behinds.
And we we were ridiculed, you know, for that for years. Yeah.
One of the reasons why I have such a difficult time with the feminist movement, why I don't call myself a feminist and I call myself a womanist instead because of the history of the feminist movement, how the feminist movement began and how the DNA still exists and how it's still focused on.
Really, middle class white women. I feel like a lot of white women feel like race is not an issue for them. Hi, I'm Heidi Murkoff, host of What to Expect, a new podcast from My Heart Radio when I first wrote What to Expect When You're Expecting. My mission was simple to help parents know what to expect every step of the way on what to expect will answer your biggest pregnancy and parenting questions about everything from preconception planning to birth plan.
Newborns sleep to toddler tantrums. Motherhood is the ultimate sisterhood, but it can be overwhelming if you don't know what to expect. Listen to what to expect on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. What were you doing in college in your early 20s? Probably some partying, hooking up with that cute someone desperately trying to pick your future career and maybe even spending some time finding yourself. Yeah, me too. In season two of your young rocker, I tell the story of my own early 20s.
It's a raw, honest, strange and entertaining story about how we all end up becoming ourselves even when we try to be someone else. Hopefully your journey didn't involve getting sucked into a cult, running away to an island to be a made for billionaires and lots of shoplifting. But that's what happened when I tried to give up the one thing I love more than anything playing music. Join me Chelsea Erson for Dear Young Rocker Season two launching Wednesday, August twenty sixth.
Dear Young Rocker is executive produced by Jake Brennan of Disgraced Land and comes to you from Double Elvis Productions and I Heart Radio. Listen to Dear Young Rocker on the I Heart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I mean, well, yeah, that's my feeling. Well, you know what, I haven't had this conversation with anybody. Why maybe we should call Annie out with Annie. We got a producer coming out, this is Annie, and he's going to come join us because she has a real opinion.
Come on, Annie, sit down. This is this is real. This is good. Hi, Annie. This is great because Annie and I talk about this subject a lot of camera, and I wanted her to be part of this show and she didn't want to. And now she's ended up being part of it anyway.
And I think the very first conversation you and I had about it was we were sitting in the kitchen and you said, I want to do a show about white women and women of color and how we need to come together and and. You know, beat not just the feminist movement, but the womanist movement, for sure. Right. And my response to you was, you know, I'm a white woman and I don't know if I have the tools.
Yeah. I don't know what the tools are. And I don't know the how.
I don't know the conversations.
I don't know how to start the conversations because any time I feel like I want to have a conversation about it, I'm afraid I'm going to offend somebody just by starting to talk. Yeah, I feel like I'm going to say the wrong thing. Right. I feel like I'm going to say the wrong thing.
That's one of the reasons why I wanted to have this conversation, because we need some tools, too. Yeah.
I hear a lot of times that white women have privilege and they need to recognize that they have privilege. And I am sure I do. I just don't understand. I haven't had the experience to know when I'm having the privilege my. Instead of you having the privilege. I don't understand when that's happening. So when when will somebody say to me, you're having a lot of privilege right now and I need you to understand my experience right now, too.
And I don't understand the feeling of racism, but I don't know what to do about it. Right. I feel like a lot of times like trying to be friends or trying to reach out to women of color. Sometimes I feel like they don't want to be my friend.
Do you feel like that?
That is one of the the the gaps is that we we can't find that common ground to establish familiarity.
I think we don't go out of our way to just include each other.
There's a lot between us that we don't understand.
I think we we're always trying to figure out how to get into something, really know.
And, you know, when I have to say because I'm never trying to figure that out.
Oh, really? Never. Wow. Why? I'm just I'm I'm not interested.
Oh, now that might be what you might be feeling that I probably what I do feel doesn't want to talk to me in the bowling alley. You know, you. Just our history, I can't let it go. I can't get by it, I can't, but I think it's more than that. And the reason why I keep I need therapy is everybody knew about it. That is because of Jason and Lexie.
There's something about the female dynamic.
I think there's something unique here in regards to why black women and white women have such a difficult time. There's something unique there that I don't even think we are conscious of. There's something specific in regards to women, our history of how we still are relating to each other. Even our black men have. To a certain extent, not all, but a lot of our black men have rejected us, but that's just one that's that's something else, I think.
I don't think that that affects how you feel about white women in general, because I think it affects me. I don't think this white women's fault now that I'm to be real about that, because that black man is deciding to be with this white woman, you understand? That's not on her. That's not on her, just like if your man steps out on you and decides to have an affair, then I want her that's on him and that's one thing I won't do.
I'm tired of putting the blame of men's behavior on women. And so I don't I do not believe in that. If he wants to be with her, that's on him.
I wish sometimes the world could have more compassion for black women. We really haven't had the luxury to have that more relaxed, you know, not having to walk into the world with such an armor because of what we're still dealing with, you know, having to be the only protectors of our home and of our children because our men on around, you know, I have to.
My friend, for exactly I have to defend myself and not ever being able to let that go down. Exactly. I have never thought of it that way. Yeah, definitely. Let me ask a question. What could I do? What can white women do to make this something that can be real? Because until it's really real and we all really feel it, nothing's going to change and we as women are not going to move forward.
Bingo, we want we all want you to like us. And this is one of the reasons why I said that this was going to be a really hard conversation for me was because it was going to force me to examine my own way of thinking. It's it's really kind of my responsibility is not yours, because I have to be willing to open my mind and look at how my own thinking on both sides to be need to be open to doing that.
Because if both sides aren't open to doing that, then it's just a one way street wondering what she can do for me if she can't do anything. I have to decide first that I'm going to be willing, you know, and to look at my own.
This is the thing I was talking about, how we, even as black women, have to be able to look at our biases that keep us from being able to kind of bridge the gap.
Can we bring Jane out as Jane here? For 50 years, Jane Elliott has been raging against racism. I want every white person in this room. Who would be happy to receive the same treatment that our black citizens do in this society? Please stand. Nobody standing here. That says very plainly that, you know what's happening, you know, you don't want it for you, I want to know why you're so willing to accept it or to allow it to happen for others.
James was thrust into the national spotlight in 1968 with a revolutionary blue eyes, brown eyes exercise. She separated her third grade students based on the color of their eyes, giving preferential treatment to one group over the other to teach them what discrimination feels like. And a blue eyed people are the better people in this room. What happened, John Kerry. Nor can I tell you what's wrong with being all right. Oh, that's just the same way as other people ask black people.
That's the reason you came here.
I watched what had been marvelous, thoughtful children turn into not discriminating little third graders.
The experiment was extremely controversial and a landmark moment in the study of race relations.
What I do looks brutal to white people because that isn't something they have to live with all day. Every day are no holds barred approach forces all of us to confront our own biases.
What happens when two therapists walk into a podcast and then hold people accountable for their advice? Hey, I'm Lori Gottlieb. I write the dear therapist advice column for The Atlantic and I'm Gay, which I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted. And we're the hosts of a new podcast from radio called Dear Therapist.
One of the most frustrating things for us is advice columnist is that afterward no one gets to hear how the advice worked out.
But on our show you will be guide people through a consultation and then have them come back and tell us what worked or didn't and what we can all learn from it.
I was raised in a generation where men didn't show emotion. I am not good at words, but going through it has helped me grow in that sense.
I think being a single dad for two years and his daughter, the six year old, she hates me one minute and loves me 10 minutes later.
I don't want to lose sight of the negative feelings that I caused her.
I just hope that at some point you can forgive me if you'd like to walk into our podcast, email us with your dilemma at Lori and Guy at, I hope Media Dotcom.
Listen to dear therapists on Apple podcasts, the I Heart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Criminally, a podcast, I'm Holly Frim, and I'm Maria Tomoaki. And together we're exploring the intersection of history and true crime. Our first season of the show is all about lady poisoners. Sometimes women take power for themselves and sometimes they do it through murder. But how many were just misunderstood? Join us on criminality as we untangle their stories on the radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Come on over here and sit. Jenny, I'm so pleased to meet you. What do you mean you don't know about being black? Can you read? Yes, ma'am, I can read. Then why aren't you can I can I say one thing? This is absolutely fair because I saw a tattoo the other day that said ignorance is a choice. And I said to myself, you know what, that's true. I am choosing to be ignorant. And you are right.
I should be doing more homework, quit shooting on a shelf. It doesn't matter what you should do. What matters is what are you going to do? Yes, ma'am.
Well, first of all, let me just say thank you for all the work that. Yes, you've been doing this a long time. So what do you think we need to do? We need to stop believing the myths in this country. What we call education is actually indoctrination. And it takes us from the ages of five to the age of 18 to thoroughly indoctrinate people so that they will believe in the myth of white superiority. And it is a myth right now.
You can't do that while you're teaching the Columbus discovered America right. There were black people on this continent 4000 thousand years before Columbus was born. Right. We teach black history in the schools as if it started with slavery. I'm not a white woman. I'm a faded black person. My people are from the equator. And that's the only reason my skin is lighter. That's all any white person is because we are our great hey, because I mean, there's no race is no such thing.
There's one race, there's one race, the human race. And they all came from the same black women. Three hundred thousand five hundred thousand years ago, the human race began with black women. My cousins and you are all my cousins. Make no mistake about this, we are all thirtieth to fiftieth cousins because we all have the same black great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother back there. Three hundred and three hundred thousand five hundred thousand years ago.
So get over the idea that you are white.
There's one race now where the human race race, one race.
Every person in this group who's biracial.
Please stand by, Rachel. And I told you, there's only one race.
You got me and you there you didn't you listen to anything I said we were listening. It just takes a minute. Jane, let me ask you this. How long do you think the idea of race has been around? Since. Since the beginning, this the that's just what I thought you were going to say, you are just as wrong as you can be. I was going to say since around the fourteen hundreds. Right. It started with the Spanish Spanish Inquisition before that race was not a problem, but they would be found out that they were killing people who were of their religious belief, but they couldn't tell what their religion was by looking at them.
So they had to find another way to identify those they were going to kill. So they set upon skin color. We have also been indoctrinated with the myth of white superiority. We've got pictures of the baby Jesus who looks like the little Pillsbury Doughboy. He didn't look like the Pillsbury Doughboy. That's true. And it says in the Bible that Jesus had Kinky Willy hair and feet of brown. Yeah. Here's what you can do. You can educate yourself.
The schools won't do it. They won't they don't want you to know the truth. They can't afford to have blacks know the truth. But what you have to realize is within 30 years, white people will have become a numerical minority in the United States of America. Now, blacks and people of other color groups have got to stop playing defense and start playing offense. I think that part of what the responsibility that we as a black community need to take on is educating ourselves and preparing ourselves for was to absolutely educate yourself and your children before they go to school.
And when they come home from school spouting this crap that they've learned in school, then you need to take them aside and say, here, look at this. Here's what really happened. Right? There's one race, the human race. And that's the only race. Right. Our twenty five hundred different skin colors on the face of the earth. If you can come up with twenty five hundred different names for races, you've got too much time on your hands.
You need to get a job. There's only one race on the face of the earth. The human race. Got it. So now turn to the person on your left or your right. Stick out your hand and say Hello, cousin. Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello. Oh, that feels better. It feels better. Do you feel any different after hearing? Jane, right now, yes, no, I got so much work to do.
The change was already happening in my mind, but now I've got a change in how I live.
You're more conscious of what your work is? Yeah, yeah. I got some adjustments to make, which is good. Like my messaging is going to change tremendously because of this conversation in regards to we're all one human race, human race.
I mean, that's powerful gray. The human race race. One race, one race.
That's the cure. That's the cure. It is. Yes. So enlightening. This was amazing. Thank you, Jane.
What have we learned anything? I learned a lot of reading, a lot of homework. All right. This was good. We told you all the red table was going to be red. That's a wrap on our next red tabletop.
My mother had a very violent relationship with my father.
She started hitting me and he was in a rage. And I ran across the street neighbor. I think this is a family portrait, isn't it? Yes, family portrait. They are there. We are. Oh, you're crazy. Yes, one race, the human race.
But I really am angry at you because I know how old you are and you look about 20 years younger because black people crack real top. They change the way they adore you.
Well, you may lose your program now, but I have no hatred.
Table talk, family head to our table, talk Facebook. What show page.
Join the conversation and become a part of Red Tabletop to join the red table, talk family and become a part of the conversation. Follow us at Facebook. Dot com slash red tabletop. Thanks for listening to this episode of Red Tablecloth podcast produced by Facebook Watch Westbrooke Audio and I Heart Radio.
Can I help you? I would hope that it was an unimaginable crime.
We couldn't believe something like that would happen here.
Again, all from the same family. This is the PYKEN massacre. Listen to the pectin massacre on the I Heart radio app, on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. In 1983, Diane Downs shot her three children, killing one and severely injuring the others. She showed up for her trial pregnant. Now, nearly 40 years later, that child, Becky Babcock, is on a journey to explore her connection with her mother's violent past. Listen to Happy Face presents to face on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you find your favorite shows.