Due to the graphic nature of this episode, listener discretion is advised this episode contains discussions of murder, domestic abuse and sexual assault that some listeners may find disturbing. Extreme caution is advised for listeners under 13. Sometime in 1977, 18 year old friends, Marion Terrys chatted amicably to the kind stranger who just picked them up. The pair were traveling home to Canberra from Sydney's outer suburbs and figured hitchhiking was the cheapest way to get there.

Their driver was older than them. They guessed probably in his early 30s and had straggly black hair. He was friendly enough, and the drive south was largely uneventful. For the first 45 minutes or so out the windows, the teenagers watched the picturesque scenery slide by just outside the town of Mittagong.

The man turned off the Hume Highway, the main thoroughfare to Canberra. He winked at Mary and Terrys, telling them it was a shortcut. But the new road brought them closer to dense vegetation that pressed in on either side. Just moments later, he turned onto a small dirt road and slowed to a stop undoing his seatbelt. He got out of the car muttering something about needing to relieve himself. But within seconds, he yanked open Merry's door and grabbed her by the arms with malice in his eyes.

He asked, OK, girls whose first? The girls acted on instinct alone, Mary wrenched free of the man's grasp and punched him in the arm. The girls scrambled from the car and fled into the dense scrub. They moved quickly, hiding themselves in thick bush as the man tried to follow. For hours, he stalked through the trees, paced along the road, trying to find his quarry, but the forest was too large and the teens hid themselves so well that his search was fruitless.

Eventually, he gave up and drove away. Still, Mary and Terry stayed hidden, not daring to emerge just yet. Who knows what would happen if the man came back? Hi, I'm Greg Paulson. This is Serial Killers, a Spotify original from podcast. Every episode we dive into the minds and madness of serial killers. Today, we're jumping back into Australia's infamous backpacker murders. I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Richardson.

Hi, everyone. You can find episodes of Serial Killers and all other originals from podcast for free on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcast.

Last time we followed the discovery of several bodies hidden deep within Australia's Belanglo State Forest, as well as the escalating investigation that led detectives to the Milat family.

Today, we'll meet Ivan Milat, the prime suspect in the case, and unpack just what turned him into Australia's most notorious killer. We've got all that and more coming up.

Stay with us. To many people, the worst kind of monsters are the ones in the shadows, the ones who remain hidden and mysterious, never fully revealing themselves to their victims until it's too late.

The same can be said for stories like the one we're telling today. Half of the terror comes from not understanding the full picture, the unsettling, horrifying mystery of it all.

In between the half light of what we know and what we can only guess, the monsters grow larger and their stories seem more unmanageable.

In November of 1993, the Australian state of New South Wales was gripped by the panic, just such an amorphous, unmanageable story. Seven decomposed bodies were pulled from the Belanglo State Forest about two hours south of Sydney, signalling to all but a serial killer was in their midst. It was suspected that the killer or killers picked the victims up as they hitchhiked around Australia. During the course of their investigation, task force er sift through evidence and tips from the public desperate to find something that would lead them to the killer.

Interestingly, their search brought them to an entire family.

The Mallards in particular, middle aged brothers Alex, Richard and Ivan.

Alex spoke with police several times, spinning stories about the times he'd seen suspicious armed men driving through Belanglo Forest. Richard, meanwhile, boasted to colleagues that he had knowledge about where bodies were hidden, as well as what it felt like to stab a woman. Police heard from an anonymous tipster that Ivan drove a jeep and owned a lot of guns.

Still, even with the brother's odd behavior. Police didn't have enough evidence to narrow their investigation to just the Milat family. So they spent several more months chasing down leads and looking into other suspects.

But by February 1994, investigators returned to the Milat family in particular when they looked into Ivan's background. Alarm bells started sounding. Here was a person who needed more consideration.

Ivan Milat was the fifth of 14 children, according to Clive Small and Tom Gilling in their book Milat Inside Australia's Biggest Manhunt. Ivan's father, Stephen, was described as both strict but fair and brutal. In comparison, Ivan's mother, Margaret, was permissive and protective towards the children. Living conditions for the family weren't luxurious by any stretch of the imagination, but they did the best they could. At one stage, the large clan lived in a weatherboard cottage with a dirt floor, but eventually moved into a structure that was little more than a shed where the children slept on mattresses on the floor.

Even in the 1950s, raising 14 children was crushingly expensive. So Stephen forced each of his kids to leave school early so they could help out with the bills. Ivan was no exception and left school when he was 15. Vanessa is going to take over and the psychology here and throughout the episode. Please note, Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but she has done a lot of research for this show.

Thanks, Greg. It's possible that being made to leave school early had an adverse effect on Ivan and his siblings, in particular on their behaviour. According to the 2007 report, the costs and benefits of an excellent education for all of America's children. Higher education reduces rates of crime in both juveniles and adults, though researchers didn't point to an exact cause, they suggested that lower economic status might be a factor driving criminality, given that the Mellat children were made to leave school to help earn money.

It perhaps foreshadowed that they might later turn to crime.

As they got older, the Milat boys were known for their love of two things guns and trouble. The teenage Milat brothers had a large gun collection, even more extensive than you would expect for a family living in semirural Australia without school or university to keep them occupied. Ivan and his brothers made something of a habit out of run ins with law enforcement, something that caused Steven a great deal of consternation. By the time he was 25, Ivan had been jailed at least three times, mostly for breaking and entering and robberies.

When his latest sentence was up, Ivan was around 26 years old, and it's here that he seemed to graduate from small time criminal to a violent monster in April of 1971. He picked up a pair of hitchhikers somewhere near Liverpool. 18 year olds Margaret and Greta were looking for a ride to Canberra over two hours away, and Ivan was happy to help out.

He drove the women as far as Goulburn, a small town about halfway to their destination. Then he pulled off the road, turned to them and asked them each to have sex with him when the friends declined.

He pulled out two knives and tied them up, according to Clive Small and Tom Gillings book. He then said to the frightened women, You won't scream when I cut your throats, will you? Either one of you has sex with me or I will kill you both eventually.

Margaret agreed so that Ivan would let them live. So he untied her and raped the eight year old, forcing Gruder to watch out for passing cars. Afterwards, when Ivan stopped for gas, the women signalled to other customers that they needed help. People surrounded Ivan's car and helped get the girls to safety. Ivan fled.

He led police on a brief high speed chase, but was eventually captured and charged with the rape.

Even facing those charges, Ivan couldn't manage to stay out of trouble around August of that year, Ivan. His brother Michael and two other accomplices carried out at least two armed robberies and were quickly arrested. His mother, Margaret, paid one thousand dollars bail to bring Ivan home while he awaited trial, but he wasn't content to sit around waiting for his day in court.

Instead, 27 year old Ivan fled across the Tasman Sea to New Zealand and spent the next few years hiding out there waiting for the heat to die down at home. He poked his head out of his hole sometime in 1974, thinking it was safe to return.

But he was wrong. In April of that year, Ivan was finally apprehended and made to stand trial for the charges against him, though his accomplices and the armed robberies received lengthy jail terms. Ivan was acquitted in December of 1974. Then, just a few days later, he was also acquitted of the rape charge.

So granted, the opportunity to put his criminal ways behind him, Ivan moved on with his life. By October of 1975, he was living with his parents in Guilford and working as a truck driver. And despite his history of violence, 30 year old Ivan must have made a good first impression because one of his coworkers introduced him to his 17 year old sister, Karen Duqu.

Karen was already six weeks pregnant when she and Ivan started dating. Not that she told him that at first. It's unclear when she broke that news to him. But according to Karen, after their first week together, he showed his violent side. The pair were driving together. When Ivan suddenly pulled over, he exited the car, grabbed Karen by the throat and raped her on the side of the road despite the attack. Karen kept dating Ivan. And in July of 1976, Karen gave birth to a son and Ivan became a doting father figure.

He often brought presents for the boy and Karen and the infant moved in with Ivan and his many relatives in Guilford.

To some, it might seem like Ivan was settling down. But a stable job and relationship or good for him. But those things for what you could see on the surface, and it was the things lurking underneath, the things you couldn't see that held all the danger. Coming up, Ivan Milat, true colors shine through and the backpacker murders begin.

Hi, listeners, it's Greg.

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Hi, listeners, it's Greg. When it comes to true crime, it doesn't get much better than the hit podcast Unsolved Murders. If you're a fan of our show, you'll love this series.

Every Tuesday on unsolved murders, join co-host Wendy and Carter, as well as an ensemble cast of voice actors on an entertaining journey through the crime scene and ensuing investigation of a Real-Life Cold Case Park dramatic podcast.

Part old time radio show. The Spotify original park cast is a modern whodunit filled with major suspense and a whole lot of plot twists. While each murder technically remains unsolved at the end of each case to get a thorough explanation of who the most likely culprit is and their motivation. Some recent episodes include the atrocities of the Atlanta Ripper and the untimely demise of Cleopatra and the suspects and suspicions surrounding the Burger Chef murders. Trust me, the series is a must listen.

Follow unsolved murders free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Now back to the story. In early 1977, 32 year old Ivan Milat was settling into his role as boyfriend and father figure. But despite doting on care and ducks, young son Ivan hadn't shaken off his violent urges completely. But he wasn't spending time with Karen. It's anyone's guess what Ivan was up to, though it seems likely he made a habit of picking up hitchhikers in 1977.

He gave a ride to two 18 year old women, Mary and Terrys, heading from Sydney to Canberra. But before they reached their destination, Ivan pulled over and attacked his passengers.

The girls got away and hid in the nearby bush when Ivan gave up looking for them. They made their way back to the highway and continued their journey, deciding not to report the traumatic attack.

So Ivan remained undetected as a predator. In 1980, he took out a loan and bought a house in the suburb of Blacket that he, Karen and her son could move into.

Though from the start, even that chapter of their life was tinged with unsettling violence. Karen heard later that Ivan originally had his heart set on a different house in the area, but its owners refused to sell. So in the dead of night, Ivan and one of his brothers snuck onto the property and shot their cattle. If the story is true, it was a horrific beginning to Ivan and Karen's life and Blackett and there was no sign of improvement. According to Karen, Ivan was increasingly abusive as a partner in addition to being physically violent.

He utilized other manipulative abuse tactics. Ivan was stingy with money and only gave Karen enough to buy groceries each week. On the surface, this might just seem like overzealous budgeting, but it's far more sinister, according to research from the Center for Financial Security at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, financial abuse occurs in most domestic abuse cases and is one of the most powerful tools abusers use to keep their victims trapped. It's unclear whether Karen had a job, but given what we know about Ivan's abusive behavior, it seems unlikely he would have permitted her that freedom.

Doing so would have given her a path to escape.

As it was, Karen likely felt unable to break free from Ivan's controlling clutches when he wasn't directly abusing his young partner.

Ivan brought her on trips into the Belanglo State Forest, where he killed kangaroos by shooting them or sometimes slitting their throat. Other times he shot and skinned deer.

Ivan's violence went far beyond the occasional hunting trips, according to Karen. He would throw things at her if he thought their home wasn't clean enough and grew enraged if she tried to talk to anyone outside the house. And his jealousy only seemed to grow with each passing year.

If he was out at night, he called home to make sure Karen was there and hadn't left without his permission. When Ivan did let Karen leave the house, there were even more traps for her at a family gathering, Karen's brother drank too much and insulted Ivan. In response, Ivan hit him with a chair, knocking him unconscious. And when Karen once challenged Ivan in front of company, he took her outside and held a gun to her head. He said if she ever repeated that behavior, he would shoot her.

Life with Ivan must have been terrifying for Karen, yet for some reason, the couple married in 1983 once shortly after this. The couple passed a young hitchhiker and Ivan asked Karen what she thought would happen to the woman. He then told her the woman was going to be raped and murdered. He also revealed to Karen that he once murdered a man and left his body in the woods. At some stage, Karen was still afraid of Ivan, that she simply stopped talking to him.

She felt like a prisoner in her own home. In fact, when she told Ivan that she wanted to leave, he told her, you're staying whether you like it or not. In February of 1987, Karen finally reached her breaking point during a violent argument. Ivan threw a glass at her and the broken shards narrowly missed her son, realizing their lives were in jeopardy. Karen grabbed the 11 year old and left the house in the aftermath of his wife's departure.

He called Karen's mother, demanding to know where she was, but was denied. And that didn't sit well with him. Around a year after Karen left Ivan, someone set fire to Karen's mother's house. Coincidentally, Ivan happened to live relatively close by at the time, but he denied setting the blaze in spite of Ivan's efforts to bring his wife home.

The divorce was finalized in October of 1989. It was a crushing blow to Ivan's ego, and it seems he was eager to take his revenge in some way. And if he couldn't control Karen, he could certainly exert his authority in other ways.

A couple of months later and December 1989, a pair of Australian hitchhikers, 19 year old Deborah Everist and James Gibson, went missing. It's important to note at this point that Ivan Milat never confessed to any of the backpacker murders. So the narrative of the crimes themselves is limited to what the evidence tells us and educated guesswork.

We'll tell you what we know as well as what we think might have happened. Deborah and James were last seen on December 30th and just assumed that Ivan picked the friends up somewhere near Liverpool. Given what we know from the hitchhikers who got away from Ivan, it seems plausible that he threatened the two unless Deborah agreed to have sex with him.

With the threat of violence, it might have been easy for Ivan to convince the teenagers that he would let them go if they cooperated.

Then by the time he had them tied up, it was too late instead of taking his victims where they wanted to go. Ivan drove into the Belanglo State Forest. It was to be their final stop. They're in the forest, Ivan murdered Deborah and James and hastily concealed their bodies with detritus from the forest floor. Deborah had multiple fractures and both were later found with stab wounds to their bodies, suggesting that their deaths were violent, painful and potentially drawn out.

Much is made of Ivan Mallard's tendency to torture his victims. But based on our research, it's difficult to confirm how much he did this. Still, it's hard to imagine that his victims were anything less than terrified when they died.

It was perhaps this terror that motivated Ivan to kill again. It might have given him a perverse rush to hold someone's life in his hands. It was the ultimate form of control.

While Deborah and James families worried about the missing teens, Ivan was ready to strike again. On January 25th, 1990, he picked up another hitchhiker, Paul Onions. When Ivan pulled over and pointed a gun at Paul, the British tourist bolted into traffic. He was rescued by Joanne Berry, who allowed the terrified man into her car.

Joanne rushed Paul to the police station, where he filed a report.

Unfortunately, police never followed up on the incident, allowing Ivan unfettered access to local highways. But it seems that Paul's escape might have shaken Ivan. His next known attack wasn't for almost a full year.

His next victim, 21 year old German Seimone Schmidle, was last seen alive on January 20th, 1991. She was supposed to meet her mother at an airport in Melbourne and planned to hitchhike there from Liverpool, but she never made it.

Instead of meeting one of the friendlier locals, Simon was picked up by Ivan.

He took her into Belanglo, where he set about exercising his control over her. He fashioned a wire into a twisted noose and likely used it to keep seamount helpless as he led her into the trees there, where no one could hear her scream, even stab Simon to death, and covered her body with the leaves.

When she failed to show up at the airport, Simon's mother reported her missing. But with no trace of the 21 year old, the trail turned to ice very quickly. And so Ivan carried on with his chilling pattern. He waited almost another year before claiming his next victims. December 26, 1991, was the last day anyone saw 21 year old Gabor Neugebauer and 20 year old and perhaps she'd alive. The German couple spent Christmas at a backpackers hostel in Sydney's Kings Cross and planned to travel to Darwin and perhaps catch a flight to Indonesia.

Sadly, they placed their trust in Ivan Milat, who likely offered to drive them some of the way to their destination. It's not clear how Ivan could have overpowered the couple alone, but as we suggested earlier, he might have used the threat of violence to control the young tourists. It seems likely that at the very least, Anya was restrained before she died and her death was brutal. She was stabbed and slashed with such force that her spinal cord was severed.

Meanwhile, Gábor was gagged, then shot to death. Later, police found zip ties, cables, a leash and electrical tape near Anya and Gábor, skeletal remains suggesting that they were captive and possibly toyed with for some time before Ivan killed them, after their bodies were hidden beneath a layer of leeth waste and sticks. I then returned home. A few months later, in mid 1992, he began building a house in the Sydney suburb of Eagle Vale with his younger sister, Shirley, and it was in that house that he hid some of the treasures he took from his victims backpacks, sleeping bags, sometimes even clothes, all of it squirreled away or given as gifts to unsuspecting family members.

While I then got on with his life, Gabor's parents were frantic. They flew to Australia and rented a camper van to drive up and down the eastern coastline looking for their son. They visited backpacker hostels and stopped to ask locals if anyone had seen Gábor or Anya unaware that it was already too late.

Until now, all of Ivan's victims remained undiscovered, hidden deep in Belanglo. And because the tourists were still considered missing, no one even suspected that a serial killer was active in Sydney's south and he was active. Ivan wasn't done claiming victims just yet. Coming up, Ivan Milat s final murders and his terrifying legacy. Now back to the story.

By the middle of 1992, 48 year old Ivan Milat had abducted and murdered five hitchhikers. It's believed he met his victims in the Sydney suburb of Liverpool and offered them rides. S and he did take them south to the Belanglo State Forest, about two hours away from Sydney. There in the forest. He bound his victims before murdering them, either by stabbing or shooting them to death. Then he covered their bodies with leaves and branches and returned to his life as if nothing had happened.

Now, five victims in Ivan showed no signs of slowing down. But in April of 1992, he picked up a pair of hitchhikers who would change everything.

Joanne Walters, 22, and Caroline Clarke, 21, were both British tourists who had been in Australia since 1991. They'd met at a Sydney hostel and decided to drive to the remote town of Mildura to earn money picking grapes. Both had spent time in Mildura before, and both had successfully navigated parts of the country by hitchhiking. So they probably didn't think twice about the journey from Liverpool.

Unfortunately, they were picked up by Ivan Milat. Like his other victims, he spirited the young women into Belanglo, where he brutally murdered them.

Like Anya Habib, she'd part of Joanne's spinal cord was severed by a knife wound, hinting at the level of depravity. Ivan operated on.

Likewise, Caroline was shot at least 10 times with the angle of the entry wounds varying as if her body or her killer moved around. It's theorized that Caroline was maybe used for target practice. A red cloth was wrapped around her head, possibly in a macabre recreation of a firing squad scenario. Even though we don't know exactly what happened to Joanne and Caroline, it's clear they died horrifically at Ivan's hands and then like all his other victims, he hid their bodies haphazardly and left the forest, probably intending to never think about either one of them ever again.

But you know what they say, you can't always get what you want.

When Joanne and Caroline hadn't contacted their families in over a month, they were reported missing, setting off a chain of events that captivated Australia. In July of 1992, the New South Wales Police Missing Persons Unit linked the disappearances of six international tourists, acknowledging that the circumstances surrounding the missing backpackers were strikingly similar. Seimone Schmidle and you have shared Gabor Neugebauer, Joanne Walters and Caroline Clark were among the linked cases, along with an unidentified woman, according to Clive Small, head of the task force investigating the backpacker murders.

A couple of months of fruitless investigation led detectives to the conclusion that the tourists were almost certainly dead, but without bodies to confirm their suspicions. The search was at a standstill. All that changed in September of 1992, when passers by stumbled across the body of Joanne Walters in the Belanglo State Forest. The next day, investigators found Caroline Clark's body close by over a year later in October of 1993.

The bodies of Deborah Everest and James Gibson were uncovered in the forest, sparking a massive search of the area and prompting the formation of a task force. Er, the authorities had finally realized there was a serial killer at large and were desperate to unmask them before they claimed more victims.

But unbeknownst to the police, it seemed like 49 year old Ivan Milat had stopped killing. It's not clear why, but there are several plausible explanations. The first is that after the discovery of Joanne and Caroline's bodies, he was wary of being captured and decided to lay low. There's much debate over just why serial murderers stop killing. Some suggest that age and dwindling testosterone levels are key factors, according to retired FBI profiler Mark Safaricom, serial killers over the age of 50 are extremely rare.

Similarly to Ivan Milat, Joseph James D'Angelo killing spree ended around the age of 40, which might have been caused by a weakening drive to perform. His urge to hunt dried up.

Then again, Ivan's hiatus might have been the result of an emotional development. Some time in 1993, Ivan started dating a woman named Shetlander Hughes. Their relationship progressed quickly, and before long, Challenger was spending a lot of time at Ivan's house.

Given that Ivan's first murder was soon after his divorce, it's possible that being in a stable relationship brought about the end of his killing spree. According to some forensic psychologists like Dr Michael Stone, some serial killers take a break. When they find a new outlet for their emotions or are involved in a positive domestic relationship, it could be that Ivan's newfound stability with Qalandar affected his drive to kill hitchhikers.

Whatever the reason, Joanne and Caroline were Ivan's final known victims. And although he seemed content to lay low while police hunted for the killer, it wasn't enough to keep him out of their sights forever. By early 1994, police had received several tips about Ivan.

He was placed under surveillance in February of that year, and while police kept a careful eye on him, they continued a thorough investigation into his background, determined to get the right man. They dutifully followed up on the reports of Paul Onions and Joanne Berry, who'd called to recount the harrowing ordeal Paul went through in 1990.

Traffic records show that at the time he tried to abduct Paul, Ivan owned a car matching the description Paul and Joanne gave to police. Then, in May, Paul flew to Australia to speak to police in person and identified Ivan in a photo lineup.

It was around this time that Ivan reportedly realised he was a suspect. But Ivan seemed unconcerned by the news in his mind, Ivan likely believed his control of the situation was absolute based on what we know about Ivan's relationship with Cameron and the way he likely treated his victims before he killed them. It seems fair to say that he enjoyed being in control. But Ivan was no longer at the steering wheel in this story in May of 1994, police prepared to execute a series of raids at Ivan's home, as well as the homes of his family members.

And they had a clear goal in mind to find the missing belongings of the murdered backpackers.

The first home police visited was that of Ivan's brother, Alex, where they found a backpack quickly identified as Seimone Spiegels. When asked where it came from, Alex's wife told police that Ivan gave it to her as a gift. She said that Ivan explained that a friend didn't need it anymore. It was, if not quite a smoking gun, damning evidence against Ivan and the next day police arrived at his house in the early morning, ready to pounce as the sun rose over Sydney.

A team of officers searched Ivan's home outside. A horde of journalists clamored for information about the raid, desperate to bring news of an arrest to the public. Meanwhile, Ivan accompanied detectives while the search continued and was given the chance to explain the various pieces of evidence as they were discovered. But he was unable to exert his control over the situation and fumbled for words when presented with damning evidence. He shrugged or claimed to have never seen some of the things before.

Among the damning items were a postcard addressed to build the name Ivan sometimes used when picking up hitchhikers, bullets matching those found at several of the Belanglo crime scenes, guns and gun parts matching those used in the murders, and a knife matching a description given by Paul Onions.

Additionally, many items thought to belong to Ivan's victims were hidden in plain sight throughout the home, a water bottle that looked like the one Simon Schmiel owned, a sleeping bag believed to be that of Deborah Everist with the growing mountain of evidence against him.

Ivan was taken into custody and eventually charged with the abduction of Paul onions, as well as seven murders. But the case was far from over. It took the task force eight days to complete the raids on Milat family properties, resulting in over 800 potential exhibits for trial.

But while the task force worked diligently to ensure they would secure a conviction, the local media rushed to answer public curiosity about the case. The Australian people were clamouring for news about the backpacker murders. And in June of 1994, the magazine WHO weekly published a cover story about the backpacker murders, the Milat family and Ivan himself.

The article had the potential to cause havoc with the case against Ivan as it influenced public perception of him. So the New South Wales attorney general charged the magazine publisher with contempt of court and won an injunction to halt further sales of the issue.

And the chaos didn't stop there.

Over several hearings throughout the latter half of 1994, 50 year old Ivan fired, first his lawyer, then his barrister, opting to defend himself before he was forced to accept new representation. But his histrionics amounted to nothing. Despite pleading innocent, claiming that he was being framed, Ivan was committed to stand trial.

Then, following nearly two years of further investigation and legal battles, that trial began in March of 1996. As Australia watched on in Fascination, Ivan's defence team attempted to convince the court that the evidence against him was planted or that it pointed instead to one of his siblings, perhaps even his sister, with whom Ivan shared his house. But despite their best efforts, no one was convinced.

Soon after the jury members started deliberations, they spent three days in isolation debating the case. And on July 27, 1996, returned with their verdict. 52 year old Ivan Milat was guilty on all seven charges of murder, as well as the abduction of Paul Onions.

In handing down his sentence, Justice David Hunt remarked that Ivan's indifference to his victims suffering was, quote, almost beyond belief. Then he made a haunting statement.

He said, In my view, it is inevitable that the prisoner was not alone in that criminal enterprise, although Ivan was the only one charged with the crimes, it was evident to many that he could not have acted alone. Most of his victims were pairs of travelers, which could have made them more difficult to subdue, leading to the theory that one of Ivins brothers helped him, according to Gabor Neuk, about his father.

His son was very strong and stood tall at six foot one. In contrast, Ivan was only around five foot six, which seems to support knuckleballers insistence that no single man could have overpowered his son.

And it wasn't just Ivan's control of multiple victims. That points to the possibility of multiple killers. The different ways the backpackers were murdered also suggests that at least one more person was in the forest with Ivan. In fact, at the very first crime scene, the differing murder, weapons and causes of death contributed greatly to forensic psychiatrist Dr Rod Milton's theory that there were two killers.

Milton guessed early on that a pair of brothers were behind the crimes. One of whom loved to be in control, something we know Ivan relished, one thing Ivan didn't enjoy, however, was drinking, and empty bottles were found at several of the crime scenes, along with cigarette butts. But Ivan didn't smoke.

However, Ivan refused to confess. So there was no way to know if the second killer theory was true and who his accomplice might have been. In light of this, Ivan alone bore the full brunt of the punishment. Justice Hunt sentenced him to seven life terms for the murders, plus an extra six years for the abduction of Paul Onions.

And with that, the story of the backpacker murders drew to a close. But public fascination with the case and with Ivan himself hardly waned for the rest of his life. Ivan maintained his innocence, though it seems few. But his immediate family believed him.

In the decades since the murders, the mystique around the crimes has only grown, and the Belanglo State Forest has become a location that draws a shudder for those who lived through the case. The rare sighting of a hitchhiker calls to mind the horrific attacks on young adventurers and inspires cautionary tales across the nation. Australians still whisper in almost reverent tones about what might have happened to the backpackers in their final moments, in this way, the crimes have passed into the realm of folklore, the kind of horrors that inspire slasher films.

And indeed, they have director and writer Greg McLean confess to using elements of the crimes in his 2005 film Wolf Creek, saying that what happened in the forest was more terrifying than anything he could have imagined. Indeed, the villain in the iconic film, even sports the same mutton chop sideburns for which Ivan Milat was so well known. But McLean wasn't the only one inspired by Ivan.

In November of 2010, Ivens grandnephews, 17 year old Matthew Mellat and his friend, 18 year old Colin Clayne, brought seventeen year old David Aloni into Belanglo. It was David's birthday and they were supposed to have some drinks together in the forest. But instead, Matthew attacked David with an axe while Cohen filmed with his phone. Matthew chased David around the car and swung the blade into his torso several times. Then he ordered David to lie on the ground and killed him with a blow to the back of the head.

The teens then covered David's body with branches and leaves, just like Matthew's great uncle had years earlier in the days following the murder.

Matthew made no secret of the attack, telling friends what he'd done. He reportedly said to friends, You know my family. You know the last name Alat. I did what they do. Given Matthew's loose lips, it didn't take police long to track him down and charge him. He was sentenced to 43 years behind bars while Cohen Kline received a 32 year sentence. In her ruling, Acting Justice Jayne Matthews pointed out that the choice of Belanglo for the murder was not accidental, that it reflected Matthews state of mind when luring David Ortolani there to die.

Thankfully, the murder inspired by Ivan didn't replicate the horrific scale of his crimes, but it did serve to keep his legacy alive, ensuring Australians didn't forget what happened in Belanglo. The enduring fascination which lasted even beyond Ivan's death in 2019 is perhaps also fuelled by the frustration of just not knowing exactly what happened.

After Ivan died of esophageal and stomach cancer, Dr. Tyrone Kirshen, gassed, a criminologist, was asked by the BBC whether the continued interest in the backpacker murders was morbid. He thought not. Instead, he suggested that it was just human nature. He said a person who has done this has fallen so far short of what we consider to be normative human behavior. It even falls short of normal criminality done for opportunity gain, status or insult. This person engaged in homicide for their own psychological gratification.

For Ivan Milat, he derived his satisfaction from the control he exerted over his victims. Once they were in his car, he held all the cards and he dealt with ruthless finality. And it's this ruthlessness that continues to haunt Australians.

The Belanglo State Forest is tainted by the memories of what happened there. With Ivan Milat dead and buried, the trees remain the only witnesses to the horrors of the backpacker murders. And perhaps it's a good thing that they're not giving up those secrets. Some things are better left in the past. Thanks for tuning into serial killers. We'll be back next week with a brand new story.

For more information on the backpacker murders, amongst the many sources we used, we found Milat inside Australia's biggest manhunt.

A detective story by Clive Small and Tom Gilling extremely helpful to our research.

You can find all episodes of serial killers and all other originals from podcast for free on Spotify. Will see you next time.

Serial Killers is a Spotify original from podcast. Executive producers include Max and Ron Cuddler Sound Design by Trent Williamson with production assistance by Ron Shapiro, Carly Madden and Bruce Kaktovik. This episode of Serial Killers was written by George Carlin with writing assistants by Abigail Canon, Fact Checking by Claire Cronin and research by Brian Petrus and Chelsea Wood. Serial Killers stars Greg Polson and Vanessa Richardson.